#84 – Katie Pumphrey – Can Swimming From the Bay to Baltimore Change How We See the City? - The Truth In This Art: Stories That Matter

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rob Lee (00:00):
Only a couple months now, now, now, now. I think I
recognize her. Welcome to TheTruth in Us Art, your source for
conversations at theintersection of arts, culture,
and community. I am your hostRob Lee. Thank you for joining
me today.

(00:20):
And this episode is a specialepisode brought to you by my
media partnership with BaltimoreMagazine. Today, I'm excited to
be in conversation with my nextguest. An interdisciplinary
artist whose work explores thetensions and connections between
human instincts and play. Herexperiences as a ultra marathon

(00:41):
open water swimmer deeplyinfluenced her abstract
paintings, sculptures, andinstallations. Please welcome
Katie Pumphrey.
Welcome to the podcast.

Katie Pumphrey (00:51):
Hi. Thanks.

Rob Lee (00:52):
Thank you for coming to see if you just went into it.
It's almost like when you get aneedle prick. Yeah. And they
don't tell you. It's like, oh,and we're done.
It's good

to not know it's coming.

Rob Lee (01:00):
Yeah. Yeah. I've been recording this entire time.

I believed you.

Rob Lee (01:03):
I I wasn't. I just started recording.

So I assume that when there's a mic on that it
could be on.

Rob Lee (01:08):
Oh, no. No. No. Yeah. That's journalistic integrity
journalistic integrity.
Bap bap bap.

There's a great episode of The West Wing where
the mic is hot, and presidentBartlett knows it. And he's
like, oh, no. That was hot.Oops.

Rob Lee (01:24):
So it's been you you touched on this, before when we
were chatting it up. We've beenchatting for a little bit. So
this is one of the benefits ofthe studio and the studio visit.
But I'm gonna give you the spaceand opportunity as we go into
this this deeper conversation tointroduce yourself and tell us a
bit about your work. The artistside, the ultra marathon open

(01:46):
water swimmer side, the hopegive us the gamut, please, if
you will.

Yeah. Well, I'm Katie, Katie Pumphrey. Yeah. I'm
a visual artist and ultramarathon open water swimmer. My
two worlds are very woventogether, especially recently,
and that's it's veryintentional.
In the past few years, I've beentrying to kind of be more in
those worlds, I have big goalsin both sides, but they're also

(02:14):
feeding each other.

Rob Lee (02:15):
Sure.

And they always have, but I'm trying to talk
about that more, bring swimminginto my artwork more, and and as
an athlete also, you know, talkabout that experience and how I
do what I do while also being afull time artist. But yeah, I've
been in Baltimore for 20 years,I love this city, and yeah,

(02:37):
thanks for coming to my studio.

Rob Lee (02:38):
Thank you for having me. It's it's rare that I get
out. I'm I'm trying to work onbeing a recluse.

Nice.

Rob Lee (02:44):
Trying to I'm gonna regrow my beard. I've trimmed it
off completely up on point.

And I get the vibes. I'm alone in my studio a
lot. So, you know, and I'm aloneunderwater a lot. So I I get it.

Rob Lee (02:55):
I'm just trying to be like an Alan Moore of
podcasting. It's gonna be great.And and thank you for that that
that introduction. And, so goingback a little bit, what was that
point where you were consideringsort of the overlap and the the
connection

Mhmm.

Rob Lee (03:12):
You know, of, like, the the visual work and the
sculpture as well, the visualwork and and and swimming?

Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I've always
been a swimmer. I startedswimming on a team when I was 5,
and my focus for a lot of myyouth was swimming. And I kind
of always I always said like, ohI'll be an artist, but I'll get
to that later. I'm like reallyfocused on swimming, and so for
a long time it felt like I wasin one world or the other.

(03:41):
Yeah. And in going to highschool, in Frederick County,
Middletown, good night, Youknow, I kind of made a shift. I
was really involved in sports. Iwas running cross country. I was
swimming in the winter andrunning track in the spring,
and, sports are definitely, Idon't know, how I got through
high school and the biggestenjoyment I felt in that, but I

(04:02):
kind of threw myself into art.
And I had made the decision thatI was going to go to art school.

Rob Lee (04:07):
Yeah.

And so I was working towards and I did go to
the Maryland Institute Collegeof Art, MICA here in Baltimore
and but that was a huge shiftand I felt when I graduated high
school that my swimming careerwas over. I mourned it, I like
said goodbye, it was verydramatic, there were many tears,
and I went to MICA and I movedto Baltimore, you know, and I

(04:31):
was a painting major, I mean, soI really, I threw myself into
that and that has been my focusand was always my career,
trajectory, right? And, butthroughout college I needed a
part time job, and so I wasworking at the Y on 33rd Street
as a lifeguard, a swiminstructor, eventually a swim

(04:54):
coach, but I was also teachingwater aerobics, which was great
fun, but because I was at thepool a lot, many times a week, I
was also that was my fitness.So, I was still like training by
myself, You know, we're not Iwouldn't call it training. I was
like, you know, swimming forgeneral fitness and while I
thought that my time as anathlete was kind of over, all of

(05:16):
those feelings and thoughts likestarted getting louder and
creeping in more and towards theend of college I figured out,
and I'd like signed up for some5ks, and was like, oh, maybe
I'll get into running, and I,like, thought about the idea of
a half marathon or a marathon,and I was like, you know, I just
don't like running.
So, I mean, I like it enough,but not, well, I don't like it

(05:36):
that much.

Rob Lee (05:37):
My knees. I

like it. I don't like it enough. Yeah. Exactly.
My knees.
Although I still have kneeproblems, but, you know,
whatever. And right after Igraduated college, I stayed in
Baltimore. I fell further inlove with this city and started
really thinking about, you know,what do I want to do with my

(06:00):
work? What do I want to do? Iwas a coaching swimming at the
time.
I kind of shifted from swimlessons and and water aerobics
to a kind of more more coaching,and that kind of became, like,
my more full time job for awhile. And kind of throughout
especially that 1st year out ofcollege, when I was trying to,
like, get rid of my professorsvoices in my work and I was
trying to find my way inpainting, I felt like oh I need

(06:23):
a goal with fitness, right? AndI've learned I am not someone
that likes to work out for thesake of working out. I do enjoy
it Very much. I couldn't do whatI do without enjoying it, but I
like having something I'mworking towards.
So I signed up for theChesapeake Bay swim in 2010. I
graduated college the yearbefore, and so in working

(06:45):
towards that swim, that reallylit a fire. The just the idea
like, I loved training for it. Iloved having a plan and working
it out. I loved figuring outwhat I should do along the way,
and I could learn so much inthat 1st year.
And the Chesapeake Bay swim iscertainly not a beginner swim.
It's rough. It's like roughwater. It's choppy, and you swim

(07:05):
from Sandy Point State Park, tothe other side. So the swim
basically goes between the twospans of the Bay Bridge.
So it's a really wild experiencetoo because you get to look up
and see these spans. You're outin the Chesapeake Bay. You know,
you're swimming towards theEastern Shore. You know, it it
finished. And the first thing Isaid was which, like, surviving
that first swim was, like, epic.

(07:27):
And the first thing I said to mymom actually was, like, oh, my
gosh. That was the hardest thingI've ever done. I wanna do it
again. So I trained for that thenext year and, like, started
adjusting how I was training.Yeah.
And I was learning a lot fromcoaching, which I think being a
coach has certainly made me abetter athlete. And to the next
year, I did the base swim plusalso a 7 and a half mile swim.

(07:49):
And I later signed up for a 10ks, and I signed up for, like,
you know, a bunch of other,like, I worked towards a 10
miler. And as I got towards, youknow, 2012 or 2013, and I
started thinking about biggerswims, there were just, like,
pieces of how do I do what Ineed to do to train for this

(08:09):
kind of big swim, while makingsure I have enough time in the
studio?

Rob Lee (08:13):
Yeah.

And so while I had tried, you know, and I said
goodbye to swimming, right, Ithought it was over, and then I
was kind of mixing it in in amore hobby way, the more I
thought about to train forsomething big, like the English
Channel, how do I make all ofthat time, which is essentially
like a full time job on its own,how do I make that work with my

(08:35):
studio practice,

Rob Lee (08:36):
and

how do I make that work with the jobs I was
doing to pay the bills, right?Coaching, and I was teaching
some art classes, and, you know,doing all sorts of stuff. So I
really think it started to weavetogether more just out of my
schedule, and the more that I mywork shifted, the more I was

(08:57):
thinking about all of that atthe same time. And so I feel
like it's been years of it kindof, like, weaving together and
apart, and together and apart,and now I think being an artist,
being an athlete, you know, andand being a professional at both
of those is is so woven togetherthat, like, I can't have one
without the other. And they arealso 2 jobs, you know, 2 unique

(09:21):
jobs that 2 unique jobs that,require so much focus on their
own and so much time.
So the more that I weave themtogether, I think the more
successful I am at both. I thinkI've also figured out how

(09:41):
they're woven together togetheras I've gotten more involved
with them. Sure. You know, Ithink when I was in my early
twenties and I had that kind of,you know, that part time job
shuffle, right, part time jobhustle where it's like you're
fitting together this and thisand this, and then I hope I pay
rent and which I still very muchunderstand those feelings and
feel that occasionally as well.But around that time when I was

(10:06):
kind of figuring out how theseworlds work, I felt, I think
identity, you kind of touched onthat, like, in, in among art
friends and art circles, I feltlike an artist, right?
And I also swim. Yeah. But withmy kind of swimming friends or
coaching friends in the swimmingworld, it's like I was a swimmer
and a coach and I oh, I was alsoan artist.

Rob Lee (10:26):
Yeah.

And the more that I think talking to students
about kind of how my career haslooked has been really helpful
to kind of recognize that myidentity is both. And some of
that that shift, I think,happened when I did make the
leap towards being a full timeprofessional artist.

Rob Lee (10:45):
Yeah.

And I quit some of those part time jobs, and,
you know, was relying a 100% onart to make my income. And that
shift also gave me more freedomas an athlete to train, right?
Because if I'm self employed a100%, then I can set my own
schedule, which I've realizedrecently in the last few years

(11:07):
of, like, oh, right, I don'thave to swim at 5 AM. I'm self
employed and my boss is reallynice and very pretty. I should
swim at 8 because I can.
So that's been like that's beenvery nice. But, yeah I kind of
made that leap to being a fulltime artist in 2015. Yeah. Which
was right, you know, kind ofleading up to that I was, I

(11:28):
started and decided to swim TheEnglish Channel. So in 2015,
which was like a giant year, I,January of 2015, I, you know,
put in my notice, my coachingjob that I was at, and and I
didn't take on any otherclasses, and I just relied on
art sales, right, which wasterrifying.

Rob Lee (11:47):
Yeah.

But that later that year in August, I swam The
English Channel. So it was these2 huge leaps, but I was doing it
all at the same time. And thattime, I think, especially
changed my work.

Rob Lee (12:00):
Yeah. You

know, I really felt I had just gone through
this you know, The EnglishChannel was just, like, the most
epic, most terrifying, mostpowerful thing I'd ever felt,
right? Just that body of wateris, like, massive and it's
powerful is, like, the word Iwas going to because it's so
turbulent and unpredictable.Yeah.

Rob Lee (12:20):
How did that experience build up your confidence? And
I'll say say it because ofbecause of this, like, I, I'm a
shy extrovert. I don't likegetting I'm just all arms and
legs. I'm all over the place.Right?
And I it's it's something I justdon't really jam with, but when
I kinda get past it and I figureout how to how I'm gonna do it,

(12:42):
it's just like, I'll give you 10more of these. Let's make it
happen. Like, my confidencelevel was at a at a all time
high

Yeah.

Rob Lee (12:48):
For, like, 5 minutes, and then it's just back to
normal. But for you, having thatexperience with the, you know,
English Channel, talk talk a bitabout that.

Well, I think and even, like, from my first
open water swim in 2010, youknow, and then I shifted my
training for that that swim thenext year. You know, I think and
then over the few years, it'slike you start figuring out not
only how to train for thesethings in general, right, how
most swimmers do that, but how,how does that work for me?

Rob Lee (13:13):
Yeah.

And now I, I'm still, I am coaching a little
bit, which I really love. I lovecoaching. So right now I'm, the
last few years, I've beenworking with a handful of adult
athletes, from around thecountry that are training for,
kind of, their 1st marathon swimor a channel swim or, you know,
some kind of big, big, big swim.And one of the biggest things I

(13:35):
talk about, I think, is thatlesson I learned in that time,
especially that I made that leapin my first big swim in the
English Channel, is how do you,as an adult that has a job and
friends and family and sociallife, how do you how do you
train for that without losingyourself?

Rob Lee (13:56):
Yeah.

Right? And there are sacrifices you have to make
in order to do that and put thetime in and be prepared, right,
and train well, but that's allhappening in context to your
whole life. And so for me, whatI figured out over the years,
and I think kind of what hashelped my confidence in
training, is is taking all ofthat into account, right? When I

(14:17):
write out a training my trainingplan for myself as I work
towards a big swim, I make sureon that same calendar is like
big deadlines I have in thestudio. Yeah.
Right? Or the weeks that I needto build canvases, which is
really physical, that's notgonna be my biggest week in the
pool.

Rob Lee (14:34):
Right. Right?

Because that's too much all at once. That's
physically taxing and, you know,not smart training. I think
that's a big piece is, like,train smart.

Rob Lee (14:43):
That makes makes a lot of sense, and I'm gonna move
into this next question. Whendid this idea first come up to
attempt that? Because you'retalking earlier about sort of
the English Channel and sort ofyour preparing and sort of that
that work these these sort oflonger swims. So, you know, what
was the point where you're like,I'm gonna do this here. I'm
gonna do this in Baltimore.

I mean, really, I think, you know, from that
first open water swim in 2010,which started the exact same
spot, I started my bay toBaltimore swim to starting at
Sandy Point State Park, whichchoosing that as a starting
point for my for my bay toBaltimore was very intentional.
And so really since, like, as,you know, over the years, my

(15:22):
swimming has evolved, my artworkhas evolved. You know, it's like
talking kind of about thatbuilding confidence, right, and
figuring out what works for you.Over the years, I've done a lot
of big swims. I've done a lot ofbig swims in other cities.

Rob Lee (15:40):
Yeah.

Right? Across the US, in other countries, and
kind of built up this awesomeresume and all of these wild
experiences and, you know, I'vebecome an athlete that I think,
I think when I first got intoopen water, I never could have
envisioned that this is whereswimming would take me. Sure.

(16:04):
And all the while, I live just afew blocks from the water.
Right?
I can walk down the hill towater. I hang hang out in Sells
Point all the time by water. Andas a swimmer, I look in there
and I'm like, I wanna goswimming.

Rob Lee (16:21):
Right.

And, yeah, living in Baltimore for nearly
20 years, I thought a lot aboutwhat would it be like to do a
swim and swim into our city. Soover the years, while I've done
the other, these other big swimsand and figured out how to train
for things and, you know, evendoing swims that no one else had
ever done, in 2021, I did a 21mile swim in Deep Creek Lake. So

(16:45):
I did the length twice and doingthat kind of swim that no one
had done and, you know, otherswimmers had done long swims in
there and grabbing resourcesfrom them and figuring out how
do we do the swim, what are thelogistics with boats. You know,
the more that that dream ofdoing a swim at home built,
right? It kind of just continuedto build.

(17:06):
And all the while, I've beenkind of, you know, watching and
listening and waiting andhearing, you know, all of this,
all the improvements that havebeen happening to the Patapsco
River and to the inner harbor,right? And over the years, my
husband and I have been talkingabout how great it would be to
do this swim, and what whatshould it look like, how how
does that work, you know, whatwould the starting point be,

(17:29):
what's the distance, what's thetime. So, really, it was just a
dream for a very long time. Andabout a year ago, Waterfront
Partnership announced kind ofstarting to tease at their
Harbour Splash event, whichhappened this past June. And
they posted some kind ofteasers, where their staff, and

(17:52):
partners and advocates jumped inthe Harbour.
And I emailed them within 3minutes and said, I want to do a
swim, you you know, and nightwe, like, Joe, my husband, and I
kind of talked out, like,roughly what that should be, but
I was already booked for theCatalina channel, my second
Catalina swim, later thatsummer, this past summer. And

(18:13):
so, again, it's like planningout your year, And in order to
make made a Baltimore swimwear,like, happen in the way that I
dreamt, I knew I wanted it to bebigger than what we kind of
originally thought when I firstreached out to Waterfront. When
I reached out to Waterfront, Iwas looking at, like, you know,
the Key Bridge Inn or, you know,kind of some kind of swim that
Mr. Trash Wheel, because he's anicon and amazing, could join us

(18:37):
right into the finish. But themore that we talked out, why do
I want to do this swim, not onlyas an athlete do I want to do a
swim at home, but it's like, Iwanted to do it to spread the
message of this milestone,right?
Baltimore reaching levels ofswimmable water is huge. That

(18:57):
doesn't mean that we've, like,crossed a finish line. There's
still more work to do. Sure.Right?
But reaching WaterfrontPartnership and, which is an
amazing non profit here inBaltimore, you know, and so many
other organizations have beenworking for decades towards
this, right? A lot of cityresources have gone into making
the Harbour cleaner andhealthier, and a lot of that

(19:19):
testing that WaterfrontPartnership has been doing is
looking at it to see, is itgetting more predictable?

Rob Lee (19:24):
Yeah.

Right? So then, as they were planning their
Harbor Splash event, and Istarted really thinking about
what the swim should be, that'swhere I I wanted to connect with
them, and I'm so glad I did tohelp spread the message that
they've been working on, right,And and really sharing that
milestone, but also, like, let'scontinue to talk about what does
this mean, and what can it mean,and what doors can this open. So

(19:47):
as my husband and I then, like,kind of looked at the map more,
and we were looking at titlecharts, and, like, okay, how
realistically, like, whatrealistic swim can we do here,
you know, in this year, in, youknow, where the water
temperature is like this, youknow, and the tide is like that,
and, kind of, bay to Baltimorestarted coming to shape in,
like, January, February. Wow.Yeah.

(20:10):
So it really it was it wasnearly 8 months of planning.

Rob Lee (20:15):
It's that calendar you're talking about.

Yeah. Again yeah. Looking at, like, the
training plan, not only is thatgetting ready for a big swim of
that length and and, you know, Iwas looking at 12 to 14 hours,
but for the swim, but all ofthose logistics that go into
place to make a swim safe andand successful. So I'm so glad I

(20:37):
partnered with WaterfrontPartnership, they're amazing. I,
you know, then over the courseof those months, I I put so much
work and time and so many emailsand phone calls and
conversations, and a lot ofpeople made it possible to do
that swim.
And, it was not a smooth road inplanning, especially with, you
know, like open water, a bighuge part of open water is

(21:00):
unpredictable elements, right?You plan for all the things, but
you don't know what the day isgoing to bring.

Rob Lee (21:05):
Right.

So So in that planning, no one could have ever
predicted the Key Bridgecollapse.

Rob Lee (21:12):
Yeah. And and that's the thing that's obviously is
still being felt. It's still ahuge huge thing. I just remember
I'm strolling into the gym andit just all like the the guys
that work in facilities in mybuilding are like, yo, the the
branches fell, man. I was like,I don't I don't know anything
about that, bro.
And I think we can see it frommy building. I was like, oh,

(21:35):
that's not how I'm supposed tolook. Yeah. I gotta get these
reps in, but and then it just bebecame a thing. So to your
point, yes, things beingunpredictable.
And again, it goes, you know,the planning Mhmm. Of having
some, like, alright. What couldhappen here? What am I in
control of? And, oh, that wasn'texpected.

K. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that I mean, that
was, you know, justheartbreaking for our community.
Yeah.
And and in and then there was,like, you know, the planning for
the swim was really on hold fora while while we kind of waited
and and figured out what couldstill be possible. And there
were a lot of discussions aboutpostponing the swim until next

(22:17):
year. And in addition to HarborSplash.

Rob Lee (22:20):
Yeah.

And a lot of the conversations were, but we have
reached these swimmable levels.We need to tell people, right?
We need to spread this message,and Baltimore deserves to
celebrate that that thatmilestone.

Rob Lee (22:35):
Yeah.

And I think a lot of those conversations was
was recognizing, you know, we'reall carrying, like, feelings
that run parallel to each other.So, you know, it was absolutely
heartbreaking to swim throughthat area.

Rob Lee (22:55):
Yeah.

You know, and I did swim under one of the last
remaining spans, but the amountof amazing work that went into
making that area passable,right, and our port open and,
making steps towards progress inwhat that bridge will be is

(23:17):
huge. So I think that, again, islike another milestone and and
all of these feelings kind ofget wrapped up in, you know, and
run parallel to each other. Sothis swim was really unlike any
other planning I've everexperienced for anything, and
and just years in the dreaming,and, I'm still a little bit in

(23:40):
shock that it happened.

Rob Lee (23:43):
That's that's great. And I know that you over the
last couple of months, if notweeks, but probably months,
have, talked about, like, thisexperience at length. So, glad
you're able to talk about it onthis podcast.

Yeah. Thanks. It's a it's a pleasure.

Rob Lee (24:00):
So, alright, let's dry off a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I love swimming puns.

Rob Lee (24:05):
That's that's all I do. It's I

mean, let's dive into it, you know?

Rob Lee (24:08):
Oh, gosh.

Let's just, like, wade into it.

Rob Lee (24:10):
Let's make a big splash.

Yeah. Why not?

Rob Lee (24:12):
So now that we've dried off a bit, let's dive into your
art. See? Alright. Very, very,very good. How how long have you
and I think you touched on thisa little bit early, but let's
revisit.
How long have you been paintingand and and what are the the key
themes that you're exploring inyour work now?

Yeah. Yeah, painting has kind of always
been, you know, it's my firstand for forever love, right, in,
in art, I think. And sculpturehas come later, which I kind of
always dreamt about makingsculptures, and really it was
the pandemic that made me jumpinto it. You know, it was 2020

(24:48):
and a lot of shows and plans and

Rob Lee (24:52):
The best calendars again.

Again, this calendar, yeah. You know, we're
cancelled and I was just like,all right, screw it, I'm making
sculpture. You know, I think, Ithink, COVID taught, taught us a
lot of lessons. But really mywork for really, really since
undergrad, you know, since mytime at MICA has been thinking

(25:15):
about how our percept like, howour vantage points shift.

Rob Lee (25:25):
You

know, right after school and, like, my
senior thesis, in 20, in 2009,how old am I? Geez. You know, I
was really thinking about, like,our memories and how they shift
Yeah. As we get older, right,and how we we remember things
shiny and glossier, than thanthey were. Yeah.

(25:46):
Yeah. Like, my 9th birthdayparty is always my example,
right? I remember my 9thbirthday party being, like, so
fun and I had all these friendsand I had a great outfit and the
cake was awesome. But inreality, like, you know, one of
my friends was crying in thecorner because they felt left
out and, like, someone spilledsomething and they were crying
and, like, you know, my mom wasrunning around stressed and, you
know, it's, like, reality but weremember these, like, lovely

(26:08):
little things.

Rob Lee (26:09):
Yeah.

And I think in that, my work started shifting
towards our our instincts,right, our instincts to move, to
be competitive, to react. Andthat has kind of hung on, in my
work and, like, our instincts tothings have been like a common
thread. And I think a lot ofthat came from the idea of

(26:32):
nostalgia and and how we, yeah,we take little snippets of
things and and use that. But,really, as I got into swimming
more and got into the water, youknow, I went from, kind of,
thinking about instinct andmovement in a fight or flight
way, which I still think aboutthat a lot, but, but really

(26:52):
shifting towards what do we dowith chaos, right? What do we do
with stress and anxiety?
And so now my work is reallyexploring, like, how our
imagination plays tricks on us,right? And I'm pulling from my
time in the water, and mytraining, and, kind of, the
visuals of swimming, and visualsof open water, but really

(27:17):
exploring, you know, the momentsof chaos and movement and an
unsteady ground, you know, nextto something that's solid. So in
my work there's a lot of areasof, like, gestural, you know,
brushstrokes, and color, andthat's next to hard, you know,

(27:37):
crisp edges and flat blocks ofcolor. And so I want your eye
to, kind of, experience thatloud chaos next to, kind of, a
quiet solid shape, right? And,you know, a lot of ways and
during my swims, I'm constantlywatching the water, kind of,
move past and hit against theside of the boat.

(28:00):
And the boat for me, since I'mlevel with it the whole time, is
like the solid thing.

Rob Lee (28:04):
Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, you're working towards a
finish, which sometimes is likea wall or a rock or a beach.
This, like, solid edge that'soften just the horizon line in a
far, you know, kind of far offin the distance that seems to
never get closer no matter howmuch you swim. So yeah, my work
has been kind of really evolvingand over the years was really

(28:29):
imagery based.

Rob Lee (28:30):
Yeah.

And I kind of started painting the image out,
and I got way more in towardstowards abstraction in, you
know, 2017 to 1920 20. And overthe last few years, as swimming
has has gotten even bigger in mytime, in my life, in my
calendar. Right?

Rob Lee (28:48):
Yeah.

The more I've been bringing the image back,
and I think I needed to kind oflose it for a while in order to
bring it back in the way Iwanted. So now, image and, like,
rendering of images in differentways, in clear ways, and kind of
hinting at visuals for theviewer is now married to
abstraction. So both worlds arethere, which has been really fun

(29:15):
to play with.

Rob Lee (29:16):
That makes sense. The at a at a point, and I wanted to
throw in this pun, I'll justthrow it out there because it's
funny. You know, calm waters andchaotic waves.

Sure.

Rob Lee (29:26):
Yeah, exactly. And, but it it also had me thinking, you
know, for a second, when I whenI get into the weeds and doing
all of this stuff, and I wouldimagine a lot of folks run into
it and sort of like that horizonline or whatever. It's it's sort
of this idea of what is real.

Mhmm.

Rob Lee (29:45):
And it's just like, I know that's there, but how far
is it away, that sort of, like,concept or what have you. It's
like, I know it's there, but Ican't touch it quite yet. Is it
a mirage and and all of thatdifferent stuff? And I apply
that actually when I head intomy studio, I have one of these
little placards that just saysliterally what is real. And
maybe I'm going Philip K.

(30:06):
Dick about it or what have you,but it's definitely a reference
that I use that I just try toattach back to because, you
know, you just, quote unquote,as my dad would say, you're just
ripping and running, you're justdoing all this different stuff,
and you don't have a chance toreally sit there and have a
concept of what are you doing?Mhmm. What is this right here?

(30:27):
You're just putting time andeffort towards something, but
what are you doing? And when youhave time to think about it, it
kinda reconnects you to whatyour intention is and why you're
doing whatever your the the workis that you're doing.
You know, every now and again, Ihave this opportunity to kinda
notice. I run into, like, thissort of block of writing

(30:50):
questions, trying to beinsightful, trying to drive at,
is this interesting? Is thisstupid? And I find when I'm not
around the noise, when I'moutside of my normal
environment, traveling, being init, being a thing and trying to
plan that out calendar again.

Yeah.

Rob Lee (31:05):
I'm somehow it's right there. I tap right back into it
because what's around me isdifferent.

Mhmm.

Rob Lee (31:11):
So I have these different insights. And I'm
like, oh.

That's like planning recovery time. Right?
You need you need time to rest,like, your brain. You need time
to rest your body. And I thinkthe more you do that, the more
the more those wheels turnsmoothly.
So I think, kind of, that one isreal is a big, big thing in my
work. Sure. You know, a lot ofmy work, kind of, and especially
that play between image andabstraction, is giving you, the

(31:38):
viewer, just enough informationthat you feel or see something,
and you're I'm hoping that youstand there. I'm hoping I get
you to stand there just a littlebit longer, to kind of adjust
your eyes to whatever it is orwherever I want to take you. I
mean, and really, I think, whichI always say, like, contemporary

(31:58):
art is or the, you know, the jobof a contemporary artist is to
open a door.
And if I've done my job, I'veinvited you to step through that
door. Wherever you go after thatis 100% up to you. That's where
it's, like, if there is imageryin my work, especially when it's
hinted at, you you know, I thinka lot of people want to say,
like, oh, is it that? Did I didI look at it right? You know,

(32:20):
and the answer is, like,whatever you see or feel is 100%
correct.
And that's how we experienceart, right? If I got you to
stand there for more than 2seconds, and you felt something,
even if that's, like, in rage oryou hated it, then, like, cool,
you interacted with art andthat's great. But my hope is
that beyond that two seconds,that maybe I'm inviting you to,

(32:44):
even though I'm using swimming,I'm using my experiences, I'm
bringing in imagery that I'mfamiliar with, right, like the
repetitive hands of swimming,and, you know, references to
water and land, hoping thatthat, kind of, is a car that you
get into, you know, and, like,that takes you to your
experience. And, like, the whatis real I've been playing a lot

(33:05):
with in the last couple years oflittle hints at, you know,
sharks, little hints atalligators, little hints at sea
monsters, that sometimes you seethem, sometimes you don't,
sometimes they're clear,sometimes they're not, you know,
sometimes that image is reallyrendered, sometimes a little
more hidden, and that is, like,inviting your imagination to
play tricks on you. And thenthose sea monsters become a

(33:26):
lovely metaphor for our anxiety,right, our fear.

Rob Lee (33:29):
I may have I may have seen some tentacles earlier.
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And my hope in my work is that, you
know, I'm I'm kind ofreferencing and pointing towards
our anxiety and our stress, thatchaos, kind of losing control,
kind of hinting at that, but ina playful way. So bringing in,
you know, bright colors andplayful titles and and that that
little hint of humor. Yeah. Andthat's something I've been kind

(33:56):
of working towards in my workis, like, how do I get things to
be humorous?
This is my hinting at the waythat we process stress. Right?
We stress out about our to dolists and our busy calendars
and, but we make jokes about it.Right? Yeah.
Jokes and humor kind of help usget through that. I think even,
like, pain and grief and, youknow, all sorts of things.

(34:16):
Humour is is how we get throughthat turbulent water, if you
will.

Rob Lee (34:22):
I I I joke about it. Thank you for that's a really
good point. I got, like, 2 morequestions I wanna ask you,
before I go to the rapid fireones, because even you're
getting the rapid fire ones.Perfect. Yeah.
I I joke about it when I'mparticularly nervous about going
on stage. I'm like, oh, come onout and watch me bomb. Watch me
look like an ass on stage.

Great. And that helped you get through it.

Rob Lee (34:42):
Yeah. And, you know Do you get

nervous on on, like, public speaking?

Rob Lee (34:48):
Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm, like, I'm not interested.
I'm boring. What am I what am Idoing?
And I You

gotta be your own biggest fan.

Rob Lee (34:55):
That's true.

That's the biggest thing I tell young
artists is you have to be yournumber one your own number one
fan.

Rob Lee (35:03):
But see, I'm washed though. That's the thing. Like,
I'm washed up. I'm I'm olderthan you. No.
But Barely. But but it is thisthing where you're right. You're
right. And and I instead ofgetting hooked and caught on it,
I start reaching out to otherfolks who've done it. And
because I've got, like, a nicecache of folks that I've
interviewed

Mhmm.

Rob Lee (35:23):
I remember reaching out to one person. I'm not gonna
name drop right now because itmakes me seem gauche, but I'd
asked him. I was like, dude, howwould you do this? And he was
like, start off with somethingyou normally wouldn't do. And
he's like, I like to use humor.

Mhmm.

Rob Lee (35:36):
So I was just like, alright. I'm just gonna be in
character, but the characterthat I that I am in this sort of
setup is close to who I amanyway, so it's not too much of
a leap. And and I and I keepthinking back to the creative
morning. So it's that that themeof truth. It was like, this is
bespoke to me, you know, and Iwear my goofy actually, I

(35:59):
brought my goofy wave daddyjersey, and I just was like,
look, I gotta make a confession,guys.
We we we're coming friends here.I gotta start off by telling you
guys the truth. I give myself myown nicknames. Here's one, and
it's the jersey. And from thatpoint, I get everyone on my
side, so I'm not thinking aboutwhat I'm saying.
I'm just saying it with sort ofthat confidence. And the reality

(36:20):
of what is real of it is it'slike, look. Well, I do this. I
know how to do this. Just put itin a framework that you know how
to do, and folks aren't gonnaknow that you're nervous.
They're not gonna know any ofthese different things, and it
went over really, really well.

I think also being nervous is is okay. It's
good. Right? We get nervous, Ithink, when we care a lot.

Rob Lee (36:39):
I was nervous when I was walking up these stairs. I
was like, where am I going?

Well, that yeah. This way this, you know, this
building is a bit of a maze and,

Rob Lee (36:46):
It's nightmare fuel in here. It was not in here.

At night.

Rob Lee (36:50):
I literally said that when I was down. So I was like,
I ain't gonna be here at night.It's not gonna be dark when I'm
here.

Right. That's really cool. It gets a little
creepy. Late hours.

Rob Lee (36:59):
So I got I got these these two questions. One I'm
very, very, very curious about.The you know, you you talk you
touched on sort of the whimsy,the connection to, like,
swimming and sort of, like, justthis this concept of reality and
and sort of anxiety. All of thefeelings. Right?
Let's speak a bit about sort ofthe sculpture. I see beach

(37:20):
balls. I see floaties. There'ssome whimsy there. So talk a bit
about that and how sort of thatother side, because there is
some humor that fits to thattheme, to your to the themes
within your work as well.

Yeah. I mean sculpture again, kind of coming
from, you know, my first leapsinto sculpture were from 2020
and was a big, you know, theworld is Yeah. Unpredictable
and, not anything like whatwe've experienced before, and

(37:53):
heavy, right? And so much washappening in 2020 that was
heartbreaking and challengingand difficult, and that's all
happening for all of us whileyou're not with your family,
while you're not with yourfriends, and I just kept feeling
the weight of that. Yeah.
And in wanting to bring humorinto my work, especially while I

(38:22):
was thinking a lot about all ofthat heaviness, right, all of
the, and yeah, just like thethings I was already exploring
in my work, that anxiety, thatfear, that chaos, and trying to
do that with a little bit oflightheartedness, was getting
harder, and, you know, taking abreak from painting in my studio

(38:42):
days and filling a pool float,you know, with with pillow
stuffing, was satisfying. Yeah.It was mindless in a lot of
ways, and there was many weeksin there where I was just like
preparing to make sculpture,right? Sculpture is like such a,
it's also so different thanpainting. Painting, you can
endlessly work on painting,right, you can keep layering and

(39:04):
changing it, and I do, I alwayssay that my paintings live many
lives.

Rob Lee (39:08):
They're never quite done.

Well, and deciding that they're done is
one of the hardest things. Mygrandma always said that. But
sculpture requires planning andsteps, and there's something
very satisfying in those steps,and I love a to do list, so
checking things off on thosesteps was really great. But it
was also, yeah, just a differentway to problem solve, a

(39:31):
different way to to think aboutsomething, and in using pull
floats, which really came from,you know, I was, I was still, I
was training for a swim andworking towards 2021. I decided
to do the length of Deep CreekLake twice and, you know, part

(39:54):
of deciding to do that swim wasI was going to do it by myself
and, you know, I had a greatcrew and, you know, not a lot of
travel was required and, Ithink, you know, somewhere at
the pool I found, like, a bustedpool float.
And towards the end of thatsummer, and, you know, I think a

(40:15):
few friends had, you know, poolfloats with holes in them, and,
you know, that would, like, dropthem off in my house, and, as I
filled them, it just, like, alot of the playful side of
swimming and pools, startedcoming into my work. And I

(40:35):
think, like, what I am pullingfrom from my experiences in the
water is kind of so related tothat, the challenge of marathon
swimming, and the unpredictablesides of open water, but there's
also this really playful side ofpools, right, that we weren't
experiencing then. And so badlyin 2020, 2021, it's like I

(40:58):
wanted to go to a pool partywith my friends, I wanted to,
like, you know, throw a beachball around and float in a
flamingo. You know, it was likethe very opposite of what was
happening that year. And so,yeah, playing with these, like,
wild pool floats that were juststaring at me with their weird
eyes, was really helpful to,kind of, get into that humorous

(41:19):
side of things.
So sculpture, I think, not onlyhas changed the way I think
about painting, because paintingagain is, like, it's such a
different form of problemsolving. A lot of times I have a
plan for paintings, but then I,like, ditch that plan.

Rob Lee (41:35):
Yeah.

10 minutes in, you know, or 10 months in, or,
you know, whatever, and thesepaintings just continue to
evolve while sculpture just,yeah, you have to execute that
plan and if it doesn't work,like, you're starting over.

Rob Lee (41:49):
It's being agile where, you know, and I do these, it's
not the same, but it theinvitation thing is there,
right, to go to go deeper. And,you know, I'll have some
semblance of, yeah, this is whatI have in mind. And I tell
people all the time, I think,you know, even when I started,
it's almost like my boiler myboilerplate speech. It's like,
man, if you wanted to talk aboutcartoons for half an hour, we

(42:10):
can talk about cartoons for halfan hour. And or if someone is
going very specific, like, theiranswers feel superscripted to
the questions Mhmm.
I start improvising. I was like,I got a whole I got a whole
different set of questionsbecause literally, you'll you'll
probably appreciate this, muchlike those crime thrillers that
I enjoy, it's like thosedifferent bullet points are tied

(42:32):
and strange. It's that. I'vebeen researching the person for
the last, like, least week.

Well, that's and that's where I think in my work,
you know, I'm now moving intowards my late 30s, and looking
back at the last, you know, 15,20 years of of how my my studio
practice and painting andsculpture, how that has evolved,
and how my swimming career hasevolved. It's like I am seeing
all these through lines, right?The strings are starting to,

(42:58):
like, connect to the dots andthat's been especially since my
bay to Baltimore swim and and myworlds are feeling like they're,
like, so woven together. Thoseconnections are getting more
obvious, but it's also it feelslike more tangled and more

(43:20):
complicated and I'm still, I'mstill working out how do I talk
about it And how do I feel aboutit? And my, the goals and dreams
I have for moving forward arejust as big as they've ever
been, but they feel even granderand, and some feel, like, real
close, like I'm getting there,and some feel like they're

(43:40):
moving farther away, you know.
It's just it's been a kind of awild wild time.

Rob Lee (43:45):
I feel like the color of the strings for you are blue.

There's a lot of blue in my work. Yes. Yeah. And
I think even that time of divinginto sculpture in 2020, it was
around the time where I waslike, why am I fighting? Like, I
think there was, like, anartist, friend that was like,
lot of blue paintings, Katie.
And so I made this, like, for afew years, I feel like I made an

(44:12):
effort to really, you know, havemore of a range. And I think it
was, like, 2020, 2021 where Iwas, like, screw it. I like
blue. And my problem solvingwhen I struggle with the
painting is often to, like, drawinto it or block out
compositions in blue paint. Andso why am I fighting something
that's like literally the waythat my brain works?

(44:35):
You know, and I'm okay with mywork being really blue, because
it works and I it's good.

Rob Lee (44:43):
It's it's acceptance, and it's back to the identity
theme. And Yeah. That is sort ofthe last real question that I
got for you because you answeredthe other one, so that that
works. But with it, you'veearned yourself 2 new rapid fire
questions, unfortunately. Yes.
So the way that this works I

love a quiz.

Rob Lee (45:00):
The way that this works is, you don't wanna overthink
these. And I'm gonna go with onethat was in similar territory we
just talked about.

Mhmm.

Rob Lee (45:09):
What is your favorite color?

Blue.

Rob Lee (45:10):
Alright. So you're right. This is

so funny. I don't even wear blue all that
much.

Rob Lee (45:17):
You're not

you're not wearing blue? And in my house, I
feel like like I'm bringing inmore greens. You know, like, our
wedding colors were, like, greenand gold. You know, like, I
don't think about the world inblue, but I still love I just
love it.

Rob Lee (45:33):
I I just think of Eiffel 65. Not everyone's gonna
get that reference, so we'rewe're belaying our age. You're a
big advocate for Baltimore.Heard a lot through through the
conversation, and that's it'sgreat. We love that here,
obviously.

Yeah.

Rob Lee (45:48):
What are your top three places in the city? Don't care
about anyone's feelings. I don'tcare about anyone's feelings. I
care about my own, barely. Butwhat are your top three places
in the city?
It could be, you know, a placeto eat, could be a place to
hang, wherever, but what areyour top three places?

Well, I'm gonna give you more than 3, and
they're gonna be in categories.

Rob Lee (46:05):
Typical. Well, please.

So as far as, restaurants go, right, I love
Sally O's, I love La Burrito,and I love Marta. Okay. There
are so many more to add to thatlist, but that's where I thought
of first. That's right. As faras places, I, you know, like to
hang out, to also get food, toalso get drinks, you know, 1 Dew

(46:31):
Coffee Roasters in Canton,they're so lovely.
Ceramoted Coffee is one of my goto coffee spots on the way to
the pool, you know, it's like Ilove different things at
different times, that's where Ibuy candles, you know, there are

(46:57):
Mount Royal Soaps, I love, Ilove that as well. And then
there is a buoy in Fells Point.It's, it's right across the way
from, like, the Tango and, it'sright where and it's possible
the buoy is for urban pirateship, right? It's it's like a

(47:19):
it's a bumper buoy that that'sagainst the dock, Alright. So
the boats don't there it doesn'tslam against

Rob Lee (47:25):
Yeah.

The edge. But there's this buoy in Fells
Point, right right there, andit's orange. There are a bunch
of white ones around it, but theorange one it's my favorite
buoy.

Rob Lee (47:36):
That was wildly specific.

Yeah, I love that buoy so much. I have so
many photos and videos of it,but I also recommend like get a
coffee, get an ice cream, get a,you know, I don't know. Go sit
by the buoy. It's nice.

Rob Lee (47:49):
Okay. I'll take a note. That's that's on my Saturday
morning walk. That is the areathat I go to.

Perfect.

Rob Lee (47:53):
I mean, I'm bougie. I've stayed at the the Pendry a
few times, but,

I have I have that's a great staycation spot.
I went there with my sister in,like, 2021 when their prices
were really much probably muchlower, because people weren't
traveling as much yet. But Ilove a bougie place as well.

Rob Lee (48:10):
Oh, so

And the country is lovely.

Rob Lee (48:12):
It it it is. The last time I was

some great paintings in there.

Rob Lee (48:17):
No. I gotta return then. The last time I was there,
I actually went down the streetto get a gentleman's facial.
It's the first time I actuallyhad a facial.

Nice. I have never had one.

Rob Lee (48:25):
It was, an experience.

I'm okay. I've gotten, you know, some
pedicures, manicures. Manicuresdo not last for me, Like,
general spa treatments are justnot my go to because I'm usually
just, like, you know, a chlorinemonster. But I'm down.

Rob Lee (48:40):
I like it. So let's see. Here's another pun. I I I
just gotta get it out of theway. So last name, Pumphrey.
So I've gotta ask, what gets youpumped?

Perfect. I'm so glad you did that. Because when
people are like, wait, did yousay Humphrey? I'm like, no.
Pumphrey as in, like, pump itup.
You know?

Rob Lee (49:01):
You're the second pumphrey I've had on here, by
the way.

Really?

Rob Lee (49:04):
Drew from, Smoking Swine.

Oh, yeah. We are not related, but I see his his
stuff around. It gets me pumped.I mean, I love a pun. I love it.
I love a trivia fact, especiallyabout animals. During the bay to
Baltimore, so my niece, Nave,was was giving me facts about

(49:27):
oysters Really? Which was great.Nice. And, yeah, I wish I could
remember more of them, but theywere awesome.
I love a dumb joke that gets mepumped. During all of my swims,
I, you know, I tell my crewthere's many Katie's rules.
Right? Some of the rules arelike pretty straightforward,
like don't tell me what time itis, don't tell me how far I've
gone or how far I've left, don'ttell me how many miles I've

(49:49):
gone, you know, no no time Yeah.Or any metrics of any sort,
right?
And then also no mentioning thatyou're hot, no mentioning that
you're cold, no mentioning thatyou're tired, no mentioning of
sea monsters of any kind, and ifI make a joke, you have to laugh
at it, and so my, you know, Iwas able to have a big crew for

(50:12):
the bay to Baltimore swim. Wehad 2 boats and a kayaker the
whole time, and when I told thesame joke, which I've since
learned, I told that joke 3times, they all laughed like it
was the funniest thing they'dever heard. And the 2nd time
they laughed, which I doremember I told it at least
twice, but I was informed I toldit 3 times. But, I was like,
okay, that laugh was a littlemuch, but I appreciate the

(50:34):
support.

Rob Lee (50:35):
I I I it was it was one point on my old podcast that,
because when I get into thepocket because there's so much
work that I'm doing, I'm not adick, but also I was like,
alright, just give me some love.That's gotta be funny, right?
That was a funny bit, right?Yeah. And my buddy who's a big
pop culture guy, he was justlike, he made a reference to

(50:57):
Guardians of the Galaxy.
And then I returned toreference. I was like, that was
a fake laugh. He was like, itwas. And we were we were having
that moment. I was like, don'trocket raccoon laugh at me when
I'm saying my jokes when I'mtight.
But speaking of which, try

to get back a few more.

Rob Lee (51:12):
Please. Please.

Also, it pumps me up.

Rob Lee (51:15):
Okay.

Smiley face. I love drawing smiley faces. I
draw them on the whiteboard atthe pool. I draw them on my
coffee when I post a photo ofcoffee on Instagram, and I get
really excited when people tagme or send me photos that
they've taken a photo of theircoffee and they draw a smiley
face in it. It's really cool.
And that's where I think, like,social media has some potential
to, like, connect us in lovely,genuine ways. Right?

Rob Lee (51:37):
Yeah.

I also get very pumped up for, anything from
Ekiben. Nice. I just had an icecream sandwich from there 2 days
ago, and it was, like, the bestmood lifter that I really
needed. I love walking with anice cream cone, and I get very
excited about A 100 and 1Dalmatians, the original movie,

(52:03):
which I've seen probably 30times.

Rob Lee (52:05):
The animated one? Correct. Oh, okay. I was the
purist. Mhmm.
Purist. I like it. I get pumpedby Rocky 4.

Oh, nice.

Rob Lee (52:13):
Yeah. That was when he saved us from Russia. It was in
1985. Yeah.

That's important. Yeah.

Rob Lee (52:19):
Very, very much. Year was born.

It's a great film.

Rob Lee (52:22):
So with this this other item here that really has me
curious, I may have mentionedwhat one of my favorite movies
is. You have a triviabackground, so I gotta ask.
What's your favorite movie?

Well, 101 nominations is a 100% up there.
I find it so comforting. It'salso not that long, which is
important. Movies are too longthese days.

Rob Lee (52:46):
Yeah. Yeah.

You need to edit them down.

Rob Lee (52:47):
I'm not drunk.

The, the music is lovely in it. And that scene
where Pongo Pongo is looking outthe window and, you know, trying
to pick out a lady

Rob Lee (53:07):
for

his, for his owner, Roger. And every woman
that walks by is walking a dog,but and the the person and the
dog look very similar. Right?And I generally think this is
true. Like, I think dog people,cat people, all pet lovers,
like, we tend to kind of, like,take on some personality, right,

(53:29):
of our pets.
And, like, that makes sensebecause they're our family. And,
yeah, it's just a lovely movie.I mean, the whole concept that
they're, like, the villain istrying to make coats out of
puppies is, like,

Rob Lee (53:39):
It's dark.

That concept is so dark that people forget. Like
Cruella, of all the villains,like, woah how she is

Rob Lee (53:48):
This is a

a monster.

Rob Lee (53:49):
This is a group that has Melissa sitting there, and
it was just, like, no, no, you.

Yeah. I know. Well, that's also it. It's not
certainly not a favorite movie,but the movie Beethoven, people
forget that villain is testingbullets on puppies. Like, what
happened in the nineties?
Like, this makes, like I mean,the 1010 nominations is is much
older than that, but, you know,Beethoven, when they were making
that movie, and and a lot ofmovies in the nineties, like, no

(54:14):
wonder we all in our thirtieshave anxiety.

Rob Lee (54:18):
There there's a it's it could be a side podcast. Like,
when I have all of thesedifferent visions and ideas of
what I wanna do, I just wanna goback into, like, nineties Disney

Mhmm.

Rob Lee (54:29):
And mostly explore the TV versions of movies that
existed. It's like because Ihave a belief that all the music
was so much better Yeah. Andthen it just fell off suddenly.
Like, the theme songs, like

Oh, so good.

Rob Lee (54:44):
You throw on Chippendale's theme song, it's
just like, yo, people weresinging with it. Gummy bears
probably a little bit earlierthan that. Same thing.
Darkwinged duck, of course.

Great.

Rob Lee (54:54):
Yeah. I mean, I wanna dress like darkwinged duck for
Halloween.

Oh, that's good. I got I'm still working on my
Halloween costume. I'm not surehow I'm gonna be.

Rob Lee (55:00):
Yeah. I have I'll have to I'll have to figure it out.
It's it's measurements. We'llwe'll see.

Yeah. Other favorite movies, though, so
going to art school

Rob Lee (55:09):
Yeah.

You know, and and being an artist and being in
art world, like, I'm I I havealways and I continue to, like,
be I gravitate towards peoplethat played sports, right?

Rob Lee (55:20):
Okay.

Athletes. And one of the things I noticed,
that's just kind of a one of thethings I noticed in art school
was, like, a lot of students, alot of my, you know, fellow
Mica, you know, neighbors in thedorms and stuff were, like,
watching really heavy, artsyfilms.

Rob Lee (55:37):
Yeah.

Right? And that is when I found my love of
action movies.

Rob Lee (55:42):
You get it. You get it. Go on.

So really, like, Bourne Identity Okay. Born
Supremacy, Born Else Metam, thattrilogy. Yeah. Oh, so good.

Rob Lee (55:52):
What was so there was a 4th movie. Right?

Yeah. But

Rob Lee (55:57):
Yeah. Okay. I'm just making sure. That's the only one
I've seen, actually.

True. You've only seen the 4th one?

Rob Lee (56:03):
I've only seen when Jeremy Renner slid in

and Get out of here.

Rob Lee (56:07):
Locked it

up. No. Those movies are so good.

Rob Lee (56:12):
I'm I'm going to watch them then.

Yeah.

Rob Lee (56:14):
As a recommendation, we have, like, a playlist from you.

Perfect.

Rob Lee (56:17):
Here's the last one.

Yeah. Ready.

Rob Lee (56:20):
What's next for you? What do you got coming up? What
are you, you know, jazzed for?Whether it's in the water? Well,
I mean, I know it's about to getcold, say.
Whether it's in the water or inthe studio, what's coming up for
you?

Yeah. I mean, the first thing is I'm still,
you know, celebrating and takingstock of everything I just did.

Rob Lee (56:37):
Absolutely.

The bay to Baltimore swim and being the 1st
person ever to do that. Yeah,just one of the greatest, most
magical days of my life, but butyeah, also so much time and and
care went into making this onehappen. So first step is
continuing to celebrate that.All at the same time, the last

(57:00):
couple of months, I've made abunch of leaps in my work. I've
started bringing people backinto it, right, the figure.
So I'm really excited and and,you know, pumped to keep getting
into that. I'm working on somenew paintings that that not only
are you using these the image ofof hands, which have been in my

(57:21):
work for a few years, that kindof repetitive swimmer hand, but
starting to, like, attach thehands to an entire body, and,
that's kind of a new spot. So Ihaven't had people in my work in
probably 10 years, so Oh, wow.I'm working on that, and then
next year I'd really love to dothe bay to Baltimore swim again.

Rob Lee (57:42):
So Part 2.

Yeah. I think I mean, it's definitely a swim I
want to revisit every year,every other year, you know,
forever. Like, I love this city,and to continue to do a swim at
home, I think, is just magical.So my hope, is that I'll be able
to revisit that swim and alsoinvite some other swimmers to do
it as well. So I'm hoping thatthe bay to Baltimore swim

(58:05):
becomes, you know, becomes anannual, annual event that other
swimmers are doing.
And I also love revisitingswims, I think it's magical. I
think it's one of the best partsabout open water, is you can
swim the same stretch over andover and over again and it will
always be different.

Rob Lee (58:24):
That's a really good point.

The view is always different, the water is
always different, you'redifferent. I think as you grow
as an athlete and it's the sameas an artist, I think, you know,
it feels it feels differentevery time. So I'm really
excited to revisit that swim,and I'm also revisiting The
English Channel for the 3rdtime. So I'm booked for my 3rd

(58:45):
English Channel swim, late July2025. So a lot of swimming
ahead, but also a lot a lot ofpainting.

Rob Lee (58:52):
That's great. That's great. And thank you. So there's
2 things I wanna do as we wrapup here. 1, I wanna thank you
again for coming on to thepodcast.

Thank you.

Rob Lee (59:01):
And 2, I'm gonna invite and encourage you to share with
the listeners where they cancheck you out, social media,
website, all of that good stuff.The floor is yours.

Yeah. So katypumphrey.com will take you
to my artwork. It also links toswimkatypom, which, which is,
you know, has all of my infoabout swimming and coaching and,
hoping to share more resources,of things coming up and ways to
reach out. And on social mediait's katypumfreyart, but it's

(59:31):
more than art, it's everythingin my world, so you'll see a lot
of dog photos, a lot of mystudio and works in progress,
but as well as I really try toshare, you know, kind of, how I
train and behind the scenes and,you know, hopefully anyone
following kind of gets to knowme a little bit, gets to see how
my world is very woven togetherin all those pieces. That's

(59:55):
good.
And reach out, I love whenpeople reach out. I love when
people come visit my studio,which is in the High Latina Arts
District in Southeast Baltimore,and, there's a lot of great
artists in this complex as well,so I'm always hoping to get more
people to come visit.

Rob Lee (01:00:11):
And there you have it folks. I wanna again thank Katie
Pumphrey for inviting us intoher creative space, her studio,
and sharing a bit of her storywith us. And for Katie, I am Rob
Lee saying that there's art,culture and community in and
around your neck of the woods.You've just got to look for it.

All Episodes

#84 – Katie Pumphrey – Can Swimming From the Bay to Baltimore Change How We See the City?

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#84 – Katie Pumphrey – Can Swimming From the Bay to Baltimore Change How We See the City?