In this episode, I sit down with Mecca Verdell and Boaz Yakin to discuss their film Once Again (For the Very First Time) , an electrifying hip-hop fantasia that delves deep into love, recognition, and the power of artistic expression. Boaz, acclaimed for Fresh and Remember the Titans, shares his vision of merging dance, poetry, and surreal storytelling to explore the intense relationship between DeRay, a legendary street dancer, and Naima, a spoken word poet. Mecca, a Baltimore native and internationally acclaimed poet, tells us about bringing Naima to life and how she championed a hometown screening at the historic Parkway Theatre.
Join us for an unforgettable night celebrating Once Again at Baltimore’s Parkway Theatre on November 21st! The evening begins with a filmmaker happy hour at 6 pm, followed by short films from the Saul Zaentz Innovation Fund Fellows, leading into the screening. Stay afterward for a Q&A with Mecca, Boaz, and Oscar-winning producers Van Lathan and Nicholas Maye (Two Distant Strangers). Whether you're drawn to bold storytelling or fresh creative energy, this is a night you won’t want to miss.
Do you want to check out? Once Again (For the Very First Time) Grab your tickets here and watch the trailer for a sneak peek!
Host: Rob Lee
Music: Original music by Daniel Alexis Music with additional music from Chipzard and TeTresSeis.
Production:
- Produced by Rob Lee & Daniel Alexis
- Edited by Daniel Alexis
- Show Notes courtesy of Rob Lee and Transistor
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rob Lee (00:10):
And welcome to The Truth in His Art, your source
for conversations at theintersection of arts, culture,
and community. I am your host,Rob Lee. And today, I am
thrilled to be joined by 2guests. First, she is an
internationally acclaimed spokenword poet, teaching artist, and
actor of film and theater. Andhe is an award winning filmmaker
(00:31):
known for works like Fresh,Remember the Titans, and The
Harder They Fall.
Together, they've collaboratedon, once again for the very
first time, a breakdance hip hopsupernatural romance that blends
dance, rap, and poetry to tell aunique love story. Please
welcome, Mecca Verdell and BoazYakin. Welcome to the podcast.
Mecca Verdell (00:55):
Yeah. I, so hello. My name is Mecca Verdell
or in the poetry streets. One ofmy earliest perform, like,
creative memories, man, I don'tknow. I know I always talk about
how I as soon as I turned 18,but it might have been a little
(01:15):
bit, like, 17 between 17, 18, Iwas taking the bus by myself to
New York to go performconsistently, like, once every 2
weeks, to kind of just build upmy performance career there.
And, yeah, I was really, like, Iwas really out here. I was out
here as a teenager just doing awhole bunch, I mean, as a lot of
(01:38):
people have. But for the last 10years well, now it's kind of
been, like, a little mix of 10years, like, 10th, 11 years now,
I've been as poets, book awardartist, poetry teacher,
competing doing poetry, and nowfor the last 3 years,
consistently doing acting intheater.
Boaz Yakin (01:59):
Well, you know, I'm kind of in the family business.
My parents were pantomimes whenI was a kid, and I was actually
being taken on tour with thembefore I could walk, which are
not memories I actuallyremember. But my my first actual
real memories are from when Iwas about 3a half. My my father
was brought in to direct an offBroadway show called Jacques
(02:22):
Brel is alive and well andliving in Paris in the sixties.
And it turned out to be a areally big success, his biggest
success.
But I still remember being 3 anda half years old and watching
him work with the the singersand actors on stage. And, and,
he was a he was an expert inmovement for actors because of
(02:42):
his mom background. So for me,doing the kind of movies that
I've done in the last couple ofyears, like, once again, which I
did just did with Mecca, and themovie I did before this called
Aviva, which is also a veryheavily dance oriented film,
it's like I've kinda come fullcircle from some of those early
experiences I had with myparents as a kid.
Rob Lee (03:03):
Thank you. I I now can remove that rapid fire question
about mimes that I had left. Soyou got me. You're you're making
my job easier already.
Mecca Verdell (03:12):
Bo has actually reminded me of something. Just
the fact that my mom would bringme bring home, like, all these
random DVDs of just old theater,all old plays and stuff. So when
I the first time I watched FunnyGirl, Barbara Streisand, is when
I knew I was I was like, Yeah. Iwant to be an artist, an
actress. And then from then on,whenever we watch Martin, for
(03:35):
some reason, I would reenact thewhole episodes for them, like,
just in front of them while itwas playing on TV.
So I was like, oh, that's a goodearly that's a better early
memory.
Rob Lee (03:47):
So so you you you've actually doubled up. You're
giving me more. You're giving mesay, this is the point of that
question. You get those extradetails. It jogs memory.
So, I'd be I'd be remiss sinceit's a nice sort of segue point.
Bo, as you mentioned, onceagain, so let's let's talk about
us. Talk about sort of goingright into it, sort of the you
know, as the writer and and thefilmmaker, just what was it
(04:10):
about this story that resonatedwith you and made you want to,
like, bring it to life? And Ihave a second part for Rebecca
specifically, but, you know, Iwanna at least start there.
Boaz Yakin (04:21):
Well, I had I hadn't like I said, I had made this
this film called Aviva before,which was the first film I I
made that really dealt withdance, and it was also very
experimental in terms of the wayit was cast and everything. And
it it was an experience I Ireally loved. And, I had a a
very painful and challengingpersonal relationship in my
(04:42):
life, that I knew I wanted toexpress in some kind of creative
way. And I I wanted to use tocontinue this language of dance,
but I added poetry to this oneand and and the idea. But I I
knew I wanted to represent artas a battle and life as a
battle.
So the idea of using battledancing and battle rapping or or
(05:07):
poetry, slam poetry, as the kindof artistic modes came to me.
And it also was an opportunityto then work with great African
American black artists that I'vebeen wanting to work with. So
that's sort of how that ideastarted to take shape and, and
leading into Mecca. It's about aman and a woman and their
(05:29):
painful relationship. And, I thewoman was going to be this
spoken word poet slash want tobe and ultimately becoming
rapper.
And had to find someone thatcould do that believably and
also act. And and, luckily, wewere able to, to find Mecca,
(05:51):
because she really combines allthose elements really just
beautifully.
Rob Lee (05:56):
Thank you. And, yeah, I have to lobby it over to you,
Mecca. Let's let's let's hearit. So you're playing Naima.
Right?
Mecca Verdell (06:02):
Yes.
Rob Lee (06:03):
So tell us about that, and what was what was the draw?
Obviously, I think Bo has kindacovered a piece of it, but what
was
Mecca Verdell (06:09):
his goal for the curve? Draw was that I was in
the the draw was that that year,I literally dropped everything
to just do theater and acting.And by the middle of me doing
Romeo and Juliet, I get thisemail asking me to audition for
a film that's paying. Okay. AndI said, oh, I'm doing this for I
(06:36):
don't care what it is.
I'm doing it. But then over theinitial attraction that it was
an opportunity, it really was athing where it's just like, wow,
this is yet another project thatfeels like it's talking directly
to my life. And then also thefact that, you know, I have yet
(06:57):
to be in a play that didn't feellike it was speaking to a
certain part of my my historyand how I'm feeling about
myself. And for this, for thisscript, it definitely helped me.
I remember when we were talkingabout, where the script came
(07:17):
from and Boaz kinda joked withme about how, like, I was too
young to have gone through, youknow, what they have really gone
through in the film yet.
But the thing is I had, a prettybad, friendship breakup and, you
know, that was enough to kind ofreally change and rock my world
(07:40):
a little bit. Not just a littlebit, but a lot of it. And, you
know, provide me enough, to kindof, like, really think about
that along with a lot of painfullate relationships that were
happening around that same time.And it kind of being, like, this
great, way to kinda expressmyself through that emotionally
(08:01):
and also the fact that I couldliterally play myself while
also, challenge myself too as anactor and really push myself
creatively.
Rob Lee (08:13):
Thank you. And and I have, like, sort of a a
follow-up to that. It's it'skinda gauche to ask because it's
kinda funny. How did you prepareto how did you prepare in a way
of you you kinda touched on it asecond ago, it's like, kinda
plan myself kinda drawing from,like, sort of real experiences,
but how did you how did youprepare it for it?
Mecca Verdell (08:31):
I mean, it was it it was perfect timing because
I'm just coming off of a play.Right? About and it's Romeo and
Juliet. It's aboutrelationships, about heartbreak,
love. It's about all thosethings.
And, of course, Romeo on the onthe audience side, it's just
Romeo and Juliet. Everybodyknows how it ends, but, you
know, as an actor, there's somuch things that you have to do
(08:52):
to prepare and make sure thatyou are, you know, you believe
and support and understandeverything that your character
is going through. So with thatprocess, I was able to transfer
all of that into, Naima as well,because even though it's not the
same, you know, situation, it'salso these 2 people who are
(09:16):
struggling with communication,just like everybody in Romeo and
Juliet. But also, it's just likethese 2 people struggling with
communication and can only speakthrough poetry and, you know,
only can speak throughsoundness, only can talk to each
other through art. So it wasreally a blessing that I was
coming off of something elsethat I was I was, exercising
(09:40):
that muscle
Boaz Yakin (09:41):
Yeah.
Mecca Verdell (09:41):
As an actor. It was just kind of really I was
just really lucky to just havethat already prepared so that
way I can just jump into itbecause it that this was not
easy. This wouldn't have beeneasy for anybody, like, you
know, just for anybody justkinda just jump into, especially
for their first film.
Rob Lee (10:01):
Thank you. That's that's great. And I wanna go
back to Boaz a sec for a second,to to talk about the sort of
the, you know, the the theprocess for for this film and
sort of moving in thisdirection. I see elements of,
you know, supernatural elements,these fantasy elements. There's
(10:21):
the choreography.
There's there's dance. So in inpreparation and in sort of the
the the process of of writingand then the process of
production and preproductionthat process in bringing the
film to life. Could you speak tomaybe how this film is different
from previous works? Andobviously, in other ways, how
(10:42):
it's maybe similar to previousworks as you said that there's
movement that's been a part ofthis sort of progress, but so to
speak on, like, the most re thisthis recent work and sort of
those the differences and maybethose similarities.
Boaz Yakin (10:57):
Yeah. It's, like, it is a progression from the last
one that I did where I dealtwith dance. That one was also
about how our personalities arefractured and about, like, a a
the the the male femaleimbalance in the self and how
that affects relationships. So Ihad 4 actors playing 2 people,
like a man and a woman playedthe man, and a man and a woman
(11:19):
played the woman. And that wasthe more abstract part of that
movie, but the the story was astraightforward kind of a story.
In this one, I knew I wanted todeal with movement and poetry to
tell the story, but I alsowanted to do something new,
which was not to have any of theusual story elements to drive it
(11:40):
forward. But to completely, in akind of a surrealistic dream
like manner, approach what thesecharacters were feeling, what
they were going through, and tosee if I could create tension
and drama and a sense of wantingto know what's going to happen,
sheerly based on that feelingbetween the two characters and
(12:01):
how they were experiencing theirlives. So that was new, and that
was a new approach for me. And Ithink it's a pretty unique film
in that way. Not many films dowhat we did in this film.
It's it's storytelling iscompletely dreamlike and and
intuitive, and not your usualthing. So that that was
definitely new for me. And, youknow, I've done it in bits and
(12:22):
pieces in other films. But to doan entire film, that's
essentially a dream. That wasinteresting.
Rob Lee (12:30):
Yeah. It definitely comes through in, watching a
trailer multiple times. I waslike, you're falling, dude.
Like, this is it's like one ofmy fears in a dream, so that
definitely comes through inthat. And even this the the sort
of the the urban dynamic,because it's it's filmed in or
set in New York.
Right?
Boaz Yakin (12:49):
It's set in a kind of a timeless version of of of
New York. Yeah. For sure.
Rob Lee (12:54):
So, also, if if you would, could you speak on sort
of the collaboration with thechoreographer, Renny Renny
Harris?
Boaz Yakin (13:01):
Renny Harris. Yeah. Who is really, in his field,
really quite legendary. That'sthe thing. It's a collaboration.
Right? You start out with anidea, but it's a collaboration.
And and as I said, this piece, Idid my I I had to to kind of
immerse myself in the idea of ofstreet dancing culture, which is
(13:23):
not my background, and portraythat as accurately as I could on
the page. But then it reallyneeded someone who understood
how to do that and how to pushthat to another level on screen.
And we were lucky enough to findRenny Harris, who's an
incredible, dance core I mean,he was an incredible dancer,
(13:45):
back in the eighties dancingwith Run DMs.
He he toured with Run DMC, andhe had a show in Philadelphia.
And and he straddles the worldof street dancing and
contemporary and modern dance.He's ended up choreographing for
Alvin Ailey, in later years. Andhe has his own dance company in
Philly. So it's like he reallyat at this point in his career
(14:06):
and his life, he has his fingersin every aspect of the dance
culture.
Right? And so he was just theperfect person to be able to
help express this stuff, and hebrings an authenticity to it. He
worked with Mecca too who hadnever danced before and did an
incredible job, in this. But,you know, he he was the the one
(14:27):
who really brought theauthenticity and the texture
that makes this whole filmbalance between the sort of the
street and the sky, so to speak.You know?
Rob Lee (14:37):
I love the the balance between the street and the sky.
And as a as a proud owner of 2left feet, right, so dance
movement, my partner would notlike it. He loves she loves
dance. She has a dancebackground. She's like, you're
embarrassing yourself.
I can already hear it. I don'tpreoccupy myself with dance. I
appreciate it. I I love it, butI'm like, I I can't do this. I'm
(15:00):
too big.
I'm in a way. But what are thefrom both of your perspectives,
what are the sort of the thechallenges and and the rewards
of, you know, having movementand and having folks that are
are maybe learning sort of thethese movements for the first
time, this dance for the firsttime, and that being a part in
storytelling. You know, Nneka,you're you're you're learning
(15:22):
some of this stuff for yourcharacter. Speak a bit on sort
of, you know, the rewards andthe challenges of, like,
learning some of these movementsin this film.
Mecca Verdell (15:33):
I think the first thing I noticed, I just love
Renny's storytelling. Right? Sothe way he's told he had so many
stories that went with themovements and why he picked
them. Like, he was telling usstories about his mother and his
own history, and I was able touse that into why we were doing
certain movements as well andrelated that to myself,
(15:55):
especially, like, the thehistory behind shaking the
ground in some of the movements,shaking the ground and feeling
its vibrations and feeling itslife and letting it flow through
you and and prop you up. Thefirst dance I got to learn was
Naeema's, white what I wouldcall the white dress dance her
or her ancestral realm dance.
(16:17):
And at the by the end of it, Iwas always so emotional because
I think, you know, a lot oftimes we walk out we walk
through life and we're justusing our bodies as utility
utilitarian things. But whenwe're using it to communicate
language and communicatefeelings that we have or we're
using it to try and reachsomething, I feel like I was it
(16:40):
you know, it was come like, thefilm came at such a spiritual
point in my life, I think,because I was I feel like I was
closing out a lot of differentthings, but I also had to look
at the things that I was closingout inside of me. And with that
piece, it was just veryemotional for me every time. At
the end of every scene, you justsee me snotting and, like,
(17:01):
crying. And, I also have to say,like, you know, the some of the
things that Renee would sayabout dance and, like, the with
the female body, it mean ithelped me mature in the way that
I approach myself and my body asa woman and, you know,
especially because I was, like,23 at the time, and I was
turning 24.
(17:23):
Well, I was 20 I don't know.I'll probably 25. I don't know.
Time is weird, as you could asyou will see in the movie. But,
I mean, it was still, like, atransitional time of me, like,
still stepping into mywomanhood.
So even when he was, like,uh-uh, grown women, they don't
(17:43):
twerk. He was like, grown women,they don't twerk. Women, we it's
it's you got to dig it. Youbetter get you some. He would
always say that.
He's like, go back. Whenever youdo a new move right, that's what
he call you go get you some. Soit's like just moving in a way.
There were certain movementsthat I had to really tap into
that grown woman in me. Like,that grown woman who's really
(18:07):
confident and really in lovewith herself and her body and
knows what she's doing with it.
Because most of the time I'mnot. And like Mecca, Mecca is
very much a square, but Naima isnot. So I had to like understand
what that language was. And I'mjust always so happy to have
(18:27):
had, Jorobeum and Rami as, like,you have you have Jorobeum as,
my my partner, as as D Ray. And,you know, he was always
supporting me, making sure.
But you will see in the moviethat there are certain scenes
where I'm just like, Ugh, almostforgot what I was doing. But
it's, I think it, luckily,everybody else felt like it
(18:49):
added to her humanity, so I lovethat. A little piece of mecca
being scared inside the scene.
Rob Lee (18:57):
That's great. So, Boaz, did you did you have any
movement that you had to engagein? Was it one of those, like,
we gotta have the director danceand we gotta have you show on
set? Oh, so none?
Boaz Yakin (19:07):
No. No. As a director, no. I just get to
watch from the side. You know?
But I have you know, I've beendealing with dance now for a few
films, and it's it's definitelyan interesting I would do it in
every movie from now on if Icould. Like, I I just think it's
such an interesting and dynamicway to express things that you
(19:29):
can't express with words. Youknow? And also, I mean, you
know, I in the last few films, Iwork with people who are that
who's are mainly dancers andthen actors as opposed to actors
and then dancers because I wannahave a really high level of
dancing in these movies. Andunfortunately, we don't live in
a world today anymore where,like, you know, big movie stars
(19:50):
are also capable of reallydancing their ass off.
Yeah. Instead, what you get ismovies like La La Land where
it's like, oh my god. Like, Icannot look at this dancing.
Right? Like, if you taught anyaverage person on the street
those moves for 2 days, theywould be able to do them.
Right? That's not the case withwhat we're doing. We're making
movies with, like, really topnotch dancers like Jerome Baum,
(20:12):
who's the lead dancer for forAlvin Ailey for 12 years. We
have people like Classic Cruellaand and and Xavier Days and
Future and, King Havoc and allthese really, like, legendary
street dancers in their ownright. And then they step up and
do the acting too.
The thing with Mecca is that hercharacter was, you know, Mecca's
(20:35):
real expertise is a verbalexpertise. She's a poet and a
spoken word poet, really. So,you know, that was the area that
she had to, like, blow you awaywith. And the dancing, she
essentially had to keep up withand and and be be emotional. You
know, express herselfemotionally through the dance.
(20:55):
And, I mean, I do think that'swhat makes Mecca unique too, is
that you can read all of heremotions, whether she's speaking
or moving. And you can be agreat dancer and not be able to
express anything emotionally,and and it doesn't come through.
Right? Like and you can be anuntrained dancer to a degree
like Mecca is, but every timeshe move, you wanna look at what
(21:16):
she's doing because it'sundergirded by an emotional
content. And I think that thatsupersedes technical ability.
Right? So Mecha was able to be a1, 2 punch in the film. I mean,
she's just verbally so powerful.And when she moves, she's
magnetic and emotionallypowerful. So she was definitely,
(21:37):
like, the linchpin of of of whatwe were doing.
And around her, we had thesereally incredible first rate,
you know, dancers.
Rob Lee (21:47):
Wow. So really getting the the movement down and as as
you're touching on with, youknow, sort of the the spoken
word background, that Demeka hasand that being included. And,
finally, a lot of times whenwe're you you kinda touched on
it when you referenced, like, LaLa Land or what have you. It's
like, I'll watch a movie. I'llI'll I'll check out a film, and
it's like, of a certaincommunity, of a certain subject
(22:09):
matter, and it's like, who didyou consult?
Who are the people involvedhere? But it sounds like
bringing in sort of the topnotch folks that have the
background of the subject matterthat you're covering, not kind
of mailing it in for the sake ofwe gotta capture we gotta get
this filled. So I really digthat. Mhmm. So talk talk a
little bit about the the editingpiece because having sort of a
(22:33):
unique way of telling a storythat's I'm reading that it's
told from both Direy and Naima'sperspectives.
Boaz Yakin (22:40):
Yeah. It kind of weaves their true stories back.
And sometimes they're together,but a lot of times you're going
off and seeing them separately.
Rob Lee (22:48):
So what were some of the challenges in, like, like,
edit? I I did film forever ago,but not, like, doing film. Like,
you're you're filming. I'm I'm aguy that has a microphone in
front of him. So what was thatediting process like with maybe
like, in maybe shooting the filmor film or some of those
considerations in editing ofbringing the story together with
sort of that unique way of ofblending a story?
(23:08):
Well, I always shoot the editingin mind. Right?
Boaz Yakin (23:11):
Like and and in this one in particular, I knew the
transitions were gonna be soimportant. Like, how one because
there is no traditional story toit, that the emotional
transition from scene to scene,what you see at the end of one
scene, what you see at thebeginning of the next scene
visually is so important that Ireally planned all that out
(23:33):
beforehand. Right? So in termsof editing the story
Mecca Verdell (23:38):
Yeah.
Boaz Yakin (23:38):
It was it it it I I don't wanna say easy because, of
course, the editor JasonCacioppo and I, like, worked
very hard on it. But it it knewwhat it wanted to be from the
script. The challenges were inthe more free flowing scenes
like the dance scenes where, youknow and there's quite a lot of
moments like that in it whereyou have this very focused kind
(23:59):
of one track minded storyhappening, and then suddenly it
explodes into this kind of veryanarchic moments. And those were
definitely the most challengingand and kind of difficult,
things to edit. Like Naima Amecadoes a big rap battle scene.
Last 9 minutes on screen. Andthere's a lot of improvisation
(24:22):
in it. And and they they and theactors were really just feeling
out what they were doing. Andit's a it's a long rap battle.
And, scenes like that reallytook the the most time to edit.
Rob Lee (24:35):
Yeah. I was I was wondering about that because
it's like when I when I think ofdance, I think of street dance,
and I think of, like like likerap battles spoken word. I think
that there's a a sort of rawnessand an energy that you wanna
capture, but then also it's justlike, alright. We're at 7
minutes. Can we get a cut?
It's like, no. No. Keep itrolling. Keep it going. We can
we can do it in post.
Boaz Yakin (24:55):
Yeah. I mean, they Mecca, you can speak to how that
was in the in the rap battle.But obviously, we you know, once
it was all put together, we hadto make our choices.
Mecca Verdell (25:06):
Yeah. I mean, I it was it was definitely a lot
of, like, back because I wroteso much for this scene because I
really it's I was really in amindset of, like, you could
really see everybody else's artas dancers, but it was hard to
be, like, you could see my artbecause that's I'm I'm a writer.
I'm a I that's what I do. And,you know, I'm really happy that
(25:28):
Boaz let me, you know, allow meto do, any writing at all. I
Wow.
Boaz Yakin (25:34):
I was asking. I needed that that was that was I
was begging. Please help makethis better.
Mecca Verdell (25:40):
I mean, I but you didn't need that's the thing,
like somebody had, I remembersomebody has said something when
I was telling them what theycould do, they could snap if
they hear something good andsomebody was like, do you snap
when you hear Boaz's work? And Isaid, absolutely. Because I, I'm
like, you didn't need andespecially so there's 2 there's
2 sections. In the poetrysection, my poetry monologue,
(26:01):
there was only 2 things that Iwanted to to tweak because I
knew it would be more impactfulto me as a woman and a woman
hearing this from myself. Therewas a that was that was the only
thing that I would that I had tothink about the poem itself
though.
It's really profound and I feellike it was it is a great work.
And then when it got to the rapbattle part, I went crazy
(26:23):
because because I'm just it justbecause I'm from Baltimore. And
it's just I am and I'm I'm inAtlantic City, Baltimore hybrid,
raised off rap child. I couldnot I just had, I couldn't have
people coming up to me andthat's that I know in the hip
hop scene and the and the poetryscene, they're like, yeah. So
(26:46):
you all showing stuff, didn'tyou?
I'm like, yes, I did. Yes. I canI can say it because it's just
like it's just so funny? It'sjust so funny, but I'm really
proud that I was it's crazy. Itwas like a I feel like a lot of
what was happening was sointuitive and spiritually led.
We talk y'all y'all always talkabout, like, how, you know,
(27:07):
finding the right places toshoot and film, how lucky we all
were. But I feel like it wasjust so we were just such an we
were all just so intuitive towith each other and really
allowed each other the space todiscover something new. And mind
you, I had this fantasy ofmyself as a battle rapper for,
like, years. And there's a scenethat they actually have in a
(27:31):
trailer where I say, why am Ieven talking to this nigga? And
I'm like, because I've had thatfantasy of my head that as a
battle rapper, I would justignore my opponent and just
start rapping to the crowd.
And then also there's somethingin there where I clap like this.
And it's like, I I consider thatlike a really petty clap, like,
okay. And the fact that peoplegot it, like, understood where I
(27:53):
was coming from with that, like,it's just, like, the ability to
be raw and tap into somethingthat I'm not like at all, it was
very freeing. And I never I feellike that this whole film
process, I learned to trustmyself so much because people
(28:15):
trusted me, and I, you know, I Ionly heard maybe 1 or 2 lines,
like, that I edited, because Iprobably added too much in the
bar for it to make sense. Like,I have this whole pitbull line
that was in there, and I wasjust like, I'm glad y'all took
that out.
It was I'm glad y'all took thatout.
Boaz Yakin (28:31):
That was that was going on a little bit at that
point. You know?
Mecca Verdell (28:34):
It was just so fun. You were look. You know
what exactly what time he leftyou? I was like
Boaz Yakin (28:39):
Oh, no. Jason, the editor, loves rap. He loves rap,
and he would obsess over some ofthose lines. And that was the
hardest because he never wantedto cut anything out of the rap
stuff.
Mecca Verdell (28:51):
Oh, that's so cool.
Boaz Yakin (28:52):
Yeah. But we had to because otherwise it would have
been so long. So Oh, I gottatalk to
Mecca Verdell (28:56):
him about that. That's so cool. Because I'm
like, I'm glad that somebodythey they saw it though. Like,
somebody like, I like, that's Ilove editors because this is,
like, the the right editor inthe program, they can see it,
and they know what's what'ssupposed to happen. They know
what you're trying to do, andthey just finesse it.
Rob Lee (29:15):
That's that's great. And I feel like I also say that
same thing. Like, why have youbeen talking to this guy? I
almost say the same thing. Justpedally clapping to the back of
my hand.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. City CollegeBad Matters back in the day. So
I have one real question left,and then I have a few rapid fire
(29:37):
questions if you'll both indulgeme.
So this sort of last question isfor both of you. And you know,
as we close, you know, what wereany of the impactful or or
memorable ones that kinda, like,stick out, like, just top of
mind, you know, within theproduction or the sort of, like,
the full process of even maybeeven from audition to production
(29:58):
to like sort of, you know, thefilm being out out there? And
sort of what conversations are,are you hoping to maybe spark or
maybe contribute to, whether itis in, black love, artistic
expression, art in general,dance? What are what are the
conversations that perhapsyou're you're hoping that this
film becomes a part
Boaz Yakin (30:19):
of? I won't evade the question, but I will say
that, you know, once you finishsomething, it it's not yours
anymore. I mean, of course, I,of course, I feel a sense of
investment in it, and I want itto reach people and all that.
But you have to let go of anidea almost even of what you
want people to take away. Like,it's just gonna be what people
(30:41):
bring to it and and and but I dofeel, like, if I have any hope
for it, it's on a creative levelthat people are always saying
they want something different,and then they're lying because
they don't really want somethingdifferent.
They want the same shit thatmaybe looks a little different.
I agree. I would love I would II would love to have people
(31:04):
engage with this and go, wow.It's possible to really
experience and see and dosomething different. And it can
still connect emotionally and beentertaining and interesting,
and you can sit through it foran hour 45 minutes.
You know what I mean? So sothat's something I I really
wanna take from it. And, look,I'm not a black filmmaker.
(31:25):
Right? I'm I'm a Jewish guy fromNew York City, although I've
made a number of films thatheavily involve black characters
and themes and so on.
But I do, if I might, andhopefully don't don't get yelled
at for this. If there's onething that I do hope from this,
it's that it opens up whatpeople are willing to see from
(31:46):
black films or for films thathave black characters in them.
The way it's presented, thepoetry, the universality of our
experience.
Rob Lee (31:55):
Yeah.
Boaz Yakin (31:56):
And the fact that it can be specific to a culture
that way, like, Rennie and Meccaand Jerome, like, would bring
the reality of it and and andthe grounding of it. But it can
be poetic and surrealistic, andit doesn't have to be a certain
thing. Like, a film with blackactors or a black film, if you
wanna call it that, can beanything. Just the way a
(32:18):
European film can be. Just theway a Russian film can be or a a
Japanese film can be.
Right? Like and and so for me,in terms of that, that's
something that I hope peopletake away from this movie. It's
it's not like it's my mission,but I really do hope that people
can take that away from this.
Rob Lee (32:38):
Thank thank you so much. And then to echo, before I
move to to me, I could echo herher chime in there as well. I
I'm on the same page. I agree somuch that and I was working on
questions earlier around thistopic of folks talking about we
want something so different. Andso I was like, no, you just want
something that feels slightlypackaged different.
And it's part of it is the Mayaconcept, you know, most advanced
(33:00):
yet acceptable. But it's reallyjust a pastiche of the old stuff
that we we already have. Andyeah. I mean yeah. And I I will
say that this is a wildreference before I moved to
Mecca.
On occasions, I like to bust thestupid dope moves. I always
reference Fresh, so, you know,follow your work for for for a
while.
Boaz Yakin (33:22):
Those lines are gonna haunt me forever.
Rob Lee (33:24):
It's a great line. It's in multiple rap songs.
Mecca Verdell (33:28):
Oh, I love it.
Boaz Yakin (33:31):
I'm trying
Mecca Verdell (33:31):
to figure it out. I'm more of an uptown girl
myself. So, you know, it's justso funny. Yeah. I love that.
No. I love that. And that's whyI'm so happy that Boas is coming
to Baltimore. I just think thatand I'm so happy to be a part
of, like, a legacy of films likethis. I was gonna one of my, my
(33:56):
what's it called my marketingtactics, if you will, was going
to be how I am 6 degrees fromDenzel Washington now or 6
degrees from Wicked and allthese other great things.
It's just, I mean, I, you know,it doesn't matter if I actually
meet these people, which I'mexcited. Hey, the app is app is,
you know what I mean? But thefact that I am a part of this
(34:19):
legacy of films
Rob Lee (34:20):
Yeah.
Mecca Verdell (34:20):
It's, it's it's a win for me. And I think for me,
this whole process has been morepersonal. I just feel like
somebody saw me. Somebody knewthat I had whatever connection
that I have to acting that I'vehad my whole life and you know I
(34:46):
you know it's just it's justpersonal for me I think what I
hope people can get from this isthat I am I have arrived. I have
arrived with my full self, and Iput my entire I feel like I put
my entire being into thisprocess, into this film, and I
and I saw myself.
(35:07):
I saw myself very clearly, andI'm just really proud of it. And
I think, you know, I don't wantpeople to come in, you know,
thinking about how to dissect mein a different way. I just want
people to come and see. It'slike it's like I I it's like
I've had this feeling ofbringing it home because it
(35:28):
feels like I'm putting somethingon the fridge, you know? I'm
putting a picture, a drawing onthe fridge, just to be like, hi,
look.
I did it. So, yeah, I think thisprocess is just a lot more
personal for me, especially asmy first one. Once I get in a
couple movies in, I'll becomemore, like, I know what people
should get from this movie. Butit is, is a poet it is poetry.
(35:53):
The film is poetry.
So it's not like you have to tryand make it something. Just just
approach it and just see what itmakes inside of you as you're
watching it, as you're seeingit. It's a poetry film. It's a
poetry film. It's a dance film.
It's an art film.
Rob Lee (36:12):
Thank you. And, yeah, it's, it's it's one of those
things when you you mentionedthe the the poetry piece. You
mentioned sort of the, you know,just that just feeling like
you've arrived. It's, you athing that I talk about on
occasion and diving into filmsthat have this they have a lot
of, like, African American havea lot of Black folk in it. It
(36:33):
almost has this sort ofthrowback quality of the subject
matter while being somethingthat has the supernatural
elements, this innovativestorytelling, the dance, and so
on.
And it just makes me think, Whyare there more of these? So
hopefully, that's another thingthat happens because I like to
dive into films. And, yeah, and,the last thing I'll say before I
(36:54):
move to these rapid firequestions, this is another part
of that thing I was touching onbefore we got started of looking
at folks' backgrounds. I can saythat I'm few, you know, 6 steps
removed from Dolph Lundgren.That's another another
reference.
Yeah. One of my favorite moviesas a kid. So, shout out to the
punisher back in the day. Yeah.So I got 3 rapid fire questions
(37:19):
that, I must ask.
I'm just, you know, burning,burning to ask these. So the
first one I've got to ask. So,you know, NYC, right? I got the
New York, you know, sort of vibethat's there. I'm always curious
about sort of minutiae andpeople's, like, favorites.
Right? So what is, like, a NewYork staple food? Some people
(37:41):
throw out their bagels. Somepeople throw out there as a nice
slice. What's what's your take?
I I wanna hear it. I wanna hear,like, you know, it's gotta be
this. And I like when someonesays it's gotta be this from a
specific place. So if you will,Boaz, please, what is your New
York staple?
Boaz Yakin (37:56):
I'm gonna be so unoriginal. But a slice of
pizza, not so hot that you can'tcarry it with you, and you can
eating a slice of pizza whileyou're walking through the city.
That has to be the most NewYork, my favoritest thing ever.
Of course, I can't do it thatmuch now because it'd make me
(38:17):
fat as fuck. But, like, but thatis my favorite favorite thing to
do, definitely.
Slice while wonky.
Rob Lee (38:25):
I love it.
Mecca Verdell (38:26):
And so, yeah, as you know, I've I've traveled.
I've been traveling New Yorksince I was a teenager, but I go
to whenever I go to the dramabook shop, there is a pizza shop
that's all around that corner. Idon't know the names of
anything, but I I am a I am anavid, I am always I'm always at
the drama bookshop picking up anew book, trying to find a new
(38:47):
mom blog, and then I go to thatpizza shop right there. That and
yeah. But when I would travel, Iwould always get a, bacon, egg,
and cheese and a milk tea a milktea at, down Downtown Chinatown
Chinatown Chinatown.
So but because the Chinatown bustakes you to Chinatown. I don't
(39:08):
know what I forgot what streetthat is at this point, but I
would get milk tea because itwould always be cold as hell and
a bacon, egg, and cheese.
Rob Lee (39:18):
See, I was I I like that you said bacon, egg, and
cheese. I I like a nice bacon,egg, and cheese, and I do walk
with my pizza in hand,regularly. My my girl's from
Brooklyn. She was just like,look. This is the way you're
supposed to do these things.
Like, don't
Boaz Yakin (39:32):
Traditional way.
Rob Lee (39:33):
100%. So I wanna talk about time a little bit. So, you
know, is there a specific erathat really sticks out, you
know, for you that just feltlike creativity was just it was
a really great time forcreativity. Like, some people
talk about, you know, I like theeighties because of the excess
(39:54):
or, you know, for me, I likeMiami Vice. I don't know.
Is there a specific, like, timethat you wish you could create
or work during that time becauseof the creative, like, output
during that era if you couldtime travel back?
Boaz Yakin (40:06):
Well, don't get me started on this because that's a
whole other podcast.
Mecca Verdell (40:09):
That's the
Boaz Yakin (40:10):
that that the whole 2, 3 hour podcast. But because I
mean, it's it's almost before mytime as a creative person a
little bit, but I was a kidduring the late sixties, early
seventies. And to me, being afilmmaker, American film
between, like, 1966, 67, and1981 is the height of a
(40:31):
combination of freedom anddiscipline and focus and just
the best kind of explosion ofAmerican cinema. You know? And,
very, very much do I, like,suffer from not being able to be
making films during that era.
We are in the worst I mean, theeighties was excess and all that
(40:53):
and kinda started to dip. Thenineties had some independent
film that was pretty cool, butstill it was a drop from the
seventies. And, man, right nowis the worst film has ever been
ever in the history of Americancinema. It's so bad. So I'll I I
won't be I won't be negative,though.
We'll keep fighting. We'll keepfighting the good fight and
(41:14):
trying to make interestingthings.
Rob Lee (41:17):
Well, thank you for that.
Mecca Verdell (41:19):
I, I personally would wanna be I I think I love
the twenties. I think, aroundthat time is when, especially
around the I think maybe itmight be the 30s, I don't know,
I remember I was doing a, a worka workshop, like it was like a
(41:40):
couple weeks series workshop,learning about Black the history
of Black theater. And there wasa time where the it was these 2
musicals these 2 Black musicalsthat were virtually the exact
same. 1 came from Chicago, onewas premiering in New York, and
then there's one show fromChicago came New York, and they
(42:02):
were, like, right down thestreet from each other. The
exact same type of show, thesame show, and they were just
going they were just going atit.
And there's something sohilarious, but also tragic
because at the time duringthose, productions, you know,
they had all these theseBroadway was racist. So, you
know, it was they were facingthose challenges while also
(42:24):
beefing with each other andthere's something so funny about
that story. I have to go backinto my notes and figure out
exactly what those are but thatand also I've always wanted to
play I think I wanna playhistorical figures. I think I
wanna play, like, you know, youknow a young Black woman during
her first debutante ball or likeyou know during those times
(42:46):
where like Black women are theywere they were organizing those
types of things or you know, anunderground, like, sometimes I
have fantasies of anunderground, filmmaking group,
like, when Black people weremaking films and making their
first films and things likethat. I have imaginations like
that, but they're alwayshistorical.
(43:08):
Yeah. So that's something Ireally would love to do. Other
than that, I secretly wannaplay, Sister Souljah in a
biopic. I think I I think Icould.
Rob Lee (43:20):
Absolutely. So this this is the this is the last
one, the last one I got for youtoo. And I I'm a big fan of sort
of poly polymaths, like,especially, like, creative
polymaths. It's like you do allof these different things. And
if I'm looking for a creativeboost, I'm looking at
interviews.
I'm looking to try to just getsort of this creative thinking,
(43:43):
this creative and designthinking. So for for the 2 of
you, is there a book, a song,movie, or something, a a piece
of creative output that youreturn to for that that kind of
boost, that creative boost? It'slike, I'm gonna get something
from this, you know, and maybeit shows up in your work or
maybe it just kinda gets you outof a creative rut. Is there
something that you return to fora creative boost?
Boaz Yakin (44:05):
Yeah. I would say that even beyond creative, just
in my in in my life, my creativelife, that the the writer that I
most go back to every wow. Thatwas so wild how you have that
weird background going and,like, it looked like your water
appeared out of the blue. Likelike, it magically appeared in
(44:28):
your hand. That that that was atrip.
Sorry. So I interrupted myself.But, the writer that I go back
to the most when I need to feela sense of energy and excitement
and, like, freedom and courageto explore anything and
everything personal is, HenryMiller, who also wrote in the
(44:52):
twenties, thirties, and forties.And and he's the writer that
when I discovered him when Iwas, like, 23 years old, just
opened my mind and made me notwanna make commercial stupid
movies anymore. And that I waslike, that's how I'd started
out.
And suddenly, I was like, whatam I doing? And, you know, ruin
my life because I could havebeen rich and successful right
(45:13):
now. But, instead, you know,Henry Miller just opened this
door onto a whole different wayof looking at the world and
looking at creativity and art,and at life. And, you know,
every once every few years, 3,4, 5 years, I might not have
looked at it, then I'll just go,I gotta crack open one of these
(45:33):
books. And I always find myself.
Where and the great thing withhis books is you can just jump
in at any point and open up abook in the middle. It's like,
they're not really stories, soyou can kinda just go in and
open them anywhere. And, I findmyself refreshed and
reinvigorated. So, yeah, I wouldsay that that that writer.
Rob Lee (45:54):
Thank you.
Mecca Verdell (45:55):
I love studying people's lives. So I love
documentaries. I think, theythey just really inspired me to
think about characters' livesand how those things could
influence a person to dosomething different or try
something new, and then a storykinda comes out of that. Because
I watch a I watch a lot ofinterviews, but growing up, all
(46:18):
I watched was comedy specials.And I think that's where, like,
I was I should not have been,like, 10 watching Def Jam.
But I was. And I always was thefan of storytelling in those
ways. So people like so like,especially when I'm, like,
feeling really comfortable andI'm just talking to people. I
(46:39):
remember one time somebody waslike, you talk like you're in a
comedy special. And I was like,oh, I didn't I never noticed
that before.
And, you know, also, it's I'mvery influenced by my own
dreams. I have very, very vivid,very crazy cookie dreams, and I,
(47:02):
I would write those down, try tomake something out of those. And
also horror. I love horror videogames. I love video games.
I love the storytelling inreally good video games. I love
finding storytelling in placeswhere they probably weren't as
prominent, you know, back inback, back, back in the day, but
lore has somehow came out of it,things that allow you to imagine
(47:25):
that there is something elsebehind this
Boaz Yakin (47:28):
that
Mecca Verdell (47:28):
is influencing this character to run-in
circles, rather than the factthat they never said that there
was a whole story to begin with.Why fan like, you know, fan
fiction. So things that kind oflet you imagine things that, you
know, are that the whole anotherworld, I love stuff like that.
So I'll just, like, keep findingthat, go watch video game here
(47:49):
and see what where it takes me.
Rob Lee (47:51):
Yeah. That's great. That's great. I I have a few
things to share with you afterthis. If you're you're a sudden
a horror, I got a few things toshare with you.
Mecca Verdell (47:58):
Okay. Let's do it.
Rob Lee (48:01):
But, before we get there, I want to do this this
sort of wrap up and, again,thanking you both for coming on
and and spending some time withme. And in these final moments,
there are 2 things I want to do.1, again, thank you both. And
and 2
Boaz Yakin (48:14):
Thank you. I want to yeah.
Rob Lee (48:15):
Thank you. And and 2, I wanna invite and encourage you
to share any final thoughts, anywebsite, social media, anything
that you wanna share as we closeout here. You know, the floor is
yours. So, Boaz, if you will, ifyou have anything you wanna
share in these final moments,the floor is yours.
Boaz Yakin (48:30):
No. I I just appreciate you you having us on
and and and spending some timeand talking to us, means a lot.
And, you know, we are going tohave a a screening, in Baltimore
of the film on, 21st. Mecca cancan tell tell you where your
your listeners where it is, but,I mean, we would love nothing
(48:51):
more than for you to, be yourlisteners, a few of your
listeners to come and join usand and see the film. We would
we would be really grateful andappreciative.
Absolutely.
Mecca Verdell (49:03):
Absolutely. Yeah. I I mean, I pushed for this to
happen because I really feltlike, you know, I'm a programmer
here. I'm a teacher. I'm anartist through and through.
I'm a community member throughand through. And you can ask
Boaz. I talked about Baltimorenonstop. It's all the it be you
know, it's a part of me. And Ithink, you know, it's important
(49:26):
to really source my identitywhile I am in other places
because it fuels why I do what Ido.
And bringing it home, bringingit to Baltimore, even though
this isn't where I was born,it's where I became a real
artist, like, a real, realartist, and, you know, pushed me
to make it my career and pushedme to believe that it could be
(49:48):
my career, I'm just really proudthat it'll be here and people
can see it. And, you know, ifyou miss it, you miss it. Sorry.
I can try to make some otherthings move. But
Boaz Yakin (50:02):
Where is it playing Mecca?
Mecca Verdell (50:03):
Oh, I'm about to yeah, I was about to say. It's
going to be at the ParkwayTheater, November 21st. We're
going to have a happy hour from6 to 7. And then, there's gonna
be, like, 10 to 15 minutes oftrailers from local filmmakers.
We'll play the film, and thenwe'll have a q and a with our
(50:24):
producers, Boaz, and myself.
Rob Lee (50:26):
And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank Mecca
Vordell and Boaz Joaquin forcoming on to the podcast to
share a bit of their stories andto tell us about once again for
the very first time. It wastruly a a fun conversation. And
for Mecha and Boaz, I am Rob Leesaying that there's art,
culture, and community in andaround your neck of the woods.
(50:47):
You've just gotta look for it.
And welcome to The Truth in His Art, your source
for conversations at theintersection of arts, culture,
and community. I am your host,Rob Lee. And today, I am
thrilled to be joined by 2guests. First, she is an
internationally acclaimed spokenword poet, teaching artist, and
actor of film and theater. Andhe is an award winning filmmaker
(00:31):
known for works like Fresh,Remember the Titans, and The
Harder They Fall.
Together, they've collaboratedon, once again for the very
first time, a breakdance hip hopsupernatural romance that blends
dance, rap, and poetry to tell aunique love story. Please
welcome, Mecca Verdell and BoazYakin. Welcome to the podcast.
Mecca Verdell (00:55):
Yeah. I, so hello. My name is Mecca Verdell
or in the poetry streets. One ofmy earliest perform, like,
creative memories, man, I don'tknow. I know I always talk about
how I as soon as I turned 18,but it might have been a little
(01:15):
bit, like, 17 between 17, 18, Iwas taking the bus by myself to
New York to go performconsistently, like, once every 2
weeks, to kind of just build upmy performance career there.
And, yeah, I was really, like, Iwas really out here. I was out
here as a teenager just doing awhole bunch, I mean, as a lot of
(01:38):
people have. But for the last 10years well, now it's kind of
been, like, a little mix of 10years, like, 10th, 11 years now,
I've been as poets, book awardartist, poetry teacher,
competing doing poetry, and nowfor the last 3 years,
consistently doing acting intheater.
Boaz Yakin (01:59):
Well, you know, I'm kind of in the family business.
My parents were pantomimes whenI was a kid, and I was actually
being taken on tour with thembefore I could walk, which are
not memories I actuallyremember. But my my first actual
real memories are from when Iwas about 3a half. My my father
was brought in to direct an offBroadway show called Jacques
(02:22):
Brel is alive and well andliving in Paris in the sixties.
And it turned out to be a areally big success, his biggest
success.
But I still remember being 3 anda half years old and watching
him work with the the singersand actors on stage. And, and,
he was a he was an expert inmovement for actors because of
(02:42):
his mom background. So for me,doing the kind of movies that
I've done in the last couple ofyears, like, once again, which I
did just did with Mecca, and themovie I did before this called
Aviva, which is also a veryheavily dance oriented film,
it's like I've kinda come fullcircle from some of those early
experiences I had with myparents as a kid.
Rob Lee (03:03):
Thank you. I I now can remove that rapid fire question
about mimes that I had left. Soyou got me. You're you're making
my job easier already.
Mecca Verdell (03:12):
Bo has actually reminded me of something. Just
the fact that my mom would bringme bring home, like, all these
random DVDs of just old theater,all old plays and stuff. So when
I the first time I watched FunnyGirl, Barbara Streisand, is when
I knew I was I was like, Yeah. Iwant to be an artist, an
actress. And then from then on,whenever we watch Martin, for
(03:35):
some reason, I would reenact thewhole episodes for them, like,
just in front of them while itwas playing on TV.
So I was like, oh, that's a goodearly that's a better early
memory.
Rob Lee (03:47):
So so you you you've actually doubled up. You're
giving me more. You're giving mesay, this is the point of that
question. You get those extradetails. It jogs memory.
So, I'd be I'd be remiss sinceit's a nice sort of segue point.
Bo, as you mentioned, onceagain, so let's let's talk about
us. Talk about sort of goingright into it, sort of the you
know, as the writer and and thefilmmaker, just what was it
(04:10):
about this story that resonatedwith you and made you want to,
like, bring it to life? And Ihave a second part for Rebecca
specifically, but, you know, Iwanna at least start there.
Boaz Yakin (04:21):
Well, I had I hadn't like I said, I had made this
this film called Aviva before,which was the first film I I
made that really dealt withdance, and it was also very
experimental in terms of the wayit was cast and everything. And
it it was an experience I Ireally loved. And, I had a a
very painful and challengingpersonal relationship in my
(04:42):
life, that I knew I wanted toexpress in some kind of creative
way. And I I wanted to use tocontinue this language of dance,
but I added poetry to this oneand and and the idea. But I I
knew I wanted to represent artas a battle and life as a
battle.
So the idea of using battledancing and battle rapping or or
(05:07):
poetry, slam poetry, as the kindof artistic modes came to me.
And it also was an opportunityto then work with great African
American black artists that I'vebeen wanting to work with. So
that's sort of how that ideastarted to take shape and, and
leading into Mecca. It's about aman and a woman and their
(05:29):
painful relationship. And, I thewoman was going to be this
spoken word poet slash want tobe and ultimately becoming
rapper.
And had to find someone thatcould do that believably and
also act. And and, luckily, wewere able to, to find Mecca,
(05:51):
because she really combines allthose elements really just
beautifully.
Rob Lee (05:56):
Thank you. And, yeah, I have to lobby it over to you,
Mecca. Let's let's let's hearit. So you're playing Naima.
Right?
Mecca Verdell (06:02):
Yes.
Rob Lee (06:03):
So tell us about that, and what was what was the draw?
Obviously, I think Bo has kindacovered a piece of it, but what
was
Mecca Verdell (06:09):
his goal for the curve? Draw was that I was in
the the draw was that that year,I literally dropped everything
to just do theater and acting.And by the middle of me doing
Romeo and Juliet, I get thisemail asking me to audition for
a film that's paying. Okay. AndI said, oh, I'm doing this for I
(06:36):
don't care what it is.
I'm doing it. But then over theinitial attraction that it was
an opportunity, it really was athing where it's just like, wow,
this is yet another project thatfeels like it's talking directly
to my life. And then also thefact that, you know, I have yet
(06:57):
to be in a play that didn't feellike it was speaking to a
certain part of my my historyand how I'm feeling about
myself. And for this, for thisscript, it definitely helped me.
I remember when we were talkingabout, where the script came
(07:17):
from and Boaz kinda joked withme about how, like, I was too
young to have gone through, youknow, what they have really gone
through in the film yet.
But the thing is I had, a prettybad, friendship breakup and, you
know, that was enough to kind ofreally change and rock my world
(07:40):
a little bit. Not just a littlebit, but a lot of it. And, you
know, provide me enough, to kindof, like, really think about
that along with a lot of painfullate relationships that were
happening around that same time.And it kind of being, like, this
great, way to kinda expressmyself through that emotionally
(08:01):
and also the fact that I couldliterally play myself while
also, challenge myself too as anactor and really push myself
creatively.
Rob Lee (08:13):
Thank you. And and I have, like, sort of a a
follow-up to that. It's it'skinda gauche to ask because it's
kinda funny. How did you prepareto how did you prepare in a way
of you you kinda touched on it asecond ago, it's like, kinda
plan myself kinda drawing from,like, sort of real experiences,
but how did you how did youprepare it for it?
Mecca Verdell (08:31):
I mean, it was it it was perfect timing because
I'm just coming off of a play.Right? About and it's Romeo and
Juliet. It's aboutrelationships, about heartbreak,
love. It's about all thosethings.
And, of course, Romeo on the onthe audience side, it's just
Romeo and Juliet. Everybodyknows how it ends, but, you
know, as an actor, there's somuch things that you have to do
(08:52):
to prepare and make sure thatyou are, you know, you believe
and support and understandeverything that your character
is going through. So with thatprocess, I was able to transfer
all of that into, Naima as well,because even though it's not the
same, you know, situation, it'salso these 2 people who are
(09:16):
struggling with communication,just like everybody in Romeo and
Juliet. But also, it's just likethese 2 people struggling with
communication and can only speakthrough poetry and, you know,
only can speak throughsoundness, only can talk to each
other through art. So it wasreally a blessing that I was
coming off of something elsethat I was I was, exercising
(09:40):
that muscle
Boaz Yakin (09:41):
Yeah.
Mecca Verdell (09:41):
As an actor. It was just kind of really I was
just really lucky to just havethat already prepared so that
way I can just jump into itbecause it that this was not
easy. This wouldn't have beeneasy for anybody, like, you
know, just for anybody justkinda just jump into, especially
for their first film.
Rob Lee (10:01):
Thank you. That's that's great. And I wanna go
back to Boaz a sec for a second,to to talk about the sort of
the, you know, the the theprocess for for this film and
sort of moving in thisdirection. I see elements of,
you know, supernatural elements,these fantasy elements. There's
(10:21):
the choreography.
There's there's dance. So in inpreparation and in sort of the
the the process of of writingand then the process of
production and preproductionthat process in bringing the
film to life. Could you speak tomaybe how this film is different
from previous works? Andobviously, in other ways, how
(10:42):
it's maybe similar to previousworks as you said that there's
movement that's been a part ofthis sort of progress, but so to
speak on, like, the most re thisthis recent work and sort of
those the differences and maybethose similarities.
Boaz Yakin (10:57):
Yeah. It's, like, it is a progression from the last
one that I did where I dealtwith dance. That one was also
about how our personalities arefractured and about, like, a a
the the the male femaleimbalance in the self and how
that affects relationships. So Ihad 4 actors playing 2 people,
like a man and a woman playedthe man, and a man and a woman
(11:19):
played the woman. And that wasthe more abstract part of that
movie, but the the story was astraightforward kind of a story.
In this one, I knew I wanted todeal with movement and poetry to
tell the story, but I alsowanted to do something new,
which was not to have any of theusual story elements to drive it
(11:40):
forward. But to completely, in akind of a surrealistic dream
like manner, approach what thesecharacters were feeling, what
they were going through, and tosee if I could create tension
and drama and a sense of wantingto know what's going to happen,
sheerly based on that feelingbetween the two characters and
(12:01):
how they were experiencing theirlives. So that was new, and that
was a new approach for me. And Ithink it's a pretty unique film
in that way. Not many films dowhat we did in this film.
It's it's storytelling iscompletely dreamlike and and
intuitive, and not your usualthing. So that that was
definitely new for me. And, youknow, I've done it in bits and
(12:22):
pieces in other films. But to doan entire film, that's
essentially a dream. That wasinteresting.
Rob Lee (12:30):
Yeah. It definitely comes through in, watching a
trailer multiple times. I waslike, you're falling, dude.
Like, this is it's like one ofmy fears in a dream, so that
definitely comes through inthat. And even this the the sort
of the the urban dynamic,because it's it's filmed in or
set in New York.
Right?
Boaz Yakin (12:49):
It's set in a kind of a timeless version of of of
New York. Yeah. For sure.
Rob Lee (12:54):
So, also, if if you would, could you speak on sort
of the collaboration with thechoreographer, Renny Renny
Harris?
Boaz Yakin (13:01):
Renny Harris. Yeah. Who is really, in his field,
really quite legendary. That'sthe thing. It's a collaboration.
Right? You start out with anidea, but it's a collaboration.
And and as I said, this piece, Idid my I I had to to kind of
immerse myself in the idea of ofstreet dancing culture, which is
(13:23):
not my background, and portraythat as accurately as I could on
the page. But then it reallyneeded someone who understood
how to do that and how to pushthat to another level on screen.
And we were lucky enough to findRenny Harris, who's an
incredible, dance core I mean,he was an incredible dancer,
(13:45):
back in the eighties dancingwith Run DMs.
He he toured with Run DMC, andhe had a show in Philadelphia.
And and he straddles the worldof street dancing and
contemporary and modern dance.He's ended up choreographing for
Alvin Ailey, in later years. Andhe has his own dance company in
Philly. So it's like he reallyat at this point in his career
(14:06):
and his life, he has his fingersin every aspect of the dance
culture.
Right? And so he was just theperfect person to be able to
help express this stuff, and hebrings an authenticity to it. He
worked with Mecca too who hadnever danced before and did an
incredible job, in this. But,you know, he he was the the one
(14:27):
who really brought theauthenticity and the texture
that makes this whole filmbalance between the sort of the
street and the sky, so to speak.You know?
Rob Lee (14:37):
I love the the balance between the street and the sky.
And as a as a proud owner of 2left feet, right, so dance
movement, my partner would notlike it. He loves she loves
dance. She has a dancebackground. She's like, you're
embarrassing yourself.
I can already hear it. I don'tpreoccupy myself with dance. I
appreciate it. I I love it, butI'm like, I I can't do this. I'm
(15:00):
too big.
I'm in a way. But what are thefrom both of your perspectives,
what are the sort of the thechallenges and and the rewards
of, you know, having movementand and having folks that are
are maybe learning sort of thethese movements for the first
time, this dance for the firsttime, and that being a part in
storytelling. You know, Nneka,you're you're you're learning
(15:22):
some of this stuff for yourcharacter. Speak a bit on sort
of, you know, the rewards andthe challenges of, like,
learning some of these movementsin this film.
Mecca Verdell (15:33):
I think the first thing I noticed, I just love
Renny's storytelling. Right? Sothe way he's told he had so many
stories that went with themovements and why he picked
them. Like, he was telling usstories about his mother and his
own history, and I was able touse that into why we were doing
certain movements as well andrelated that to myself,
(15:55):
especially, like, the thehistory behind shaking the
ground in some of the movements,shaking the ground and feeling
its vibrations and feeling itslife and letting it flow through
you and and prop you up. Thefirst dance I got to learn was
Naeema's, white what I wouldcall the white dress dance her
or her ancestral realm dance.
(16:17):
And at the by the end of it, Iwas always so emotional because
I think, you know, a lot oftimes we walk out we walk
through life and we're justusing our bodies as utility
utilitarian things. But whenwe're using it to communicate
language and communicatefeelings that we have or we're
using it to try and reachsomething, I feel like I was it
(16:40):
you know, it was come like, thefilm came at such a spiritual
point in my life, I think,because I was I feel like I was
closing out a lot of differentthings, but I also had to look
at the things that I was closingout inside of me. And with that
piece, it was just veryemotional for me every time. At
the end of every scene, you justsee me snotting and, like,
(17:01):
crying. And, I also have to say,like, you know, the some of the
things that Renee would sayabout dance and, like, the with
the female body, it mean ithelped me mature in the way that
I approach myself and my body asa woman and, you know,
especially because I was, like,23 at the time, and I was
turning 24.
(17:23):
Well, I was 20 I don't know.I'll probably 25. I don't know.
Time is weird, as you could asyou will see in the movie. But,
I mean, it was still, like, atransitional time of me, like,
still stepping into mywomanhood.
So even when he was, like,uh-uh, grown women, they don't
(17:43):
twerk. He was like, grown women,they don't twerk. Women, we it's
it's you got to dig it. Youbetter get you some. He would
always say that.
He's like, go back. Whenever youdo a new move right, that's what
he call you go get you some. Soit's like just moving in a way.
There were certain movementsthat I had to really tap into
that grown woman in me. Like,that grown woman who's really
(18:07):
confident and really in lovewith herself and her body and
knows what she's doing with it.
Because most of the time I'mnot. And like Mecca, Mecca is
very much a square, but Naima isnot. So I had to like understand
what that language was. And I'mjust always so happy to have
(18:27):
had, Jorobeum and Rami as, like,you have you have Jorobeum as,
my my partner, as as D Ray. And,you know, he was always
supporting me, making sure.
But you will see in the moviethat there are certain scenes
where I'm just like, Ugh, almostforgot what I was doing. But
it's, I think it, luckily,everybody else felt like it
(18:49):
added to her humanity, so I lovethat. A little piece of mecca
being scared inside the scene.
Rob Lee (18:57):
That's great. So, Boaz, did you did you have any
movement that you had to engagein? Was it one of those, like,
we gotta have the director danceand we gotta have you show on
set? Oh, so none?
Boaz Yakin (19:07):
No. No. As a director, no. I just get to
watch from the side. You know?
But I have you know, I've beendealing with dance now for a few
films, and it's it's definitelyan interesting I would do it in
every movie from now on if Icould. Like, I I just think it's
such an interesting and dynamicway to express things that you
(19:29):
can't express with words. Youknow? And also, I mean, you
know, I in the last few films, Iwork with people who are that
who's are mainly dancers andthen actors as opposed to actors
and then dancers because I wannahave a really high level of
dancing in these movies. Andunfortunately, we don't live in
a world today anymore where,like, you know, big movie stars
(19:50):
are also capable of reallydancing their ass off.
Yeah. Instead, what you get ismovies like La La Land where
it's like, oh my god. Like, Icannot look at this dancing.
Right? Like, if you taught anyaverage person on the street
those moves for 2 days, theywould be able to do them.
Right? That's not the case withwhat we're doing. We're making
movies with, like, really topnotch dancers like Jerome Baum,
(20:12):
who's the lead dancer for forAlvin Ailey for 12 years. We
have people like Classic Cruellaand and and Xavier Days and
Future and, King Havoc and allthese really, like, legendary
street dancers in their ownright. And then they step up and
do the acting too.
The thing with Mecca is that hercharacter was, you know, Mecca's
(20:35):
real expertise is a verbalexpertise. She's a poet and a
spoken word poet, really. So,you know, that was the area that
she had to, like, blow you awaywith. And the dancing, she
essentially had to keep up withand and and be be emotional. You
know, express herselfemotionally through the dance.
(20:55):
And, I mean, I do think that'swhat makes Mecca unique too, is
that you can read all of heremotions, whether she's speaking
or moving. And you can be agreat dancer and not be able to
express anything emotionally,and and it doesn't come through.
Right? Like and you can be anuntrained dancer to a degree
like Mecca is, but every timeshe move, you wanna look at what
(21:16):
she's doing because it'sundergirded by an emotional
content. And I think that thatsupersedes technical ability.
Right? So Mecha was able to be a1, 2 punch in the film. I mean,
she's just verbally so powerful.And when she moves, she's
magnetic and emotionallypowerful. So she was definitely,
(21:37):
like, the linchpin of of of whatwe were doing.
And around her, we had thesereally incredible first rate,
you know, dancers.
Rob Lee (21:47):
Wow. So really getting the the movement down and as as
you're touching on with, youknow, sort of the the spoken
word background, that Demeka hasand that being included. And,
finally, a lot of times whenwe're you you kinda touched on
it when you referenced, like, LaLa Land or what have you. It's
like, I'll watch a movie. I'llI'll I'll check out a film, and
it's like, of a certaincommunity, of a certain subject
(22:09):
matter, and it's like, who didyou consult?
Who are the people involvedhere? But it sounds like
bringing in sort of the topnotch folks that have the
background of the subject matterthat you're covering, not kind
of mailing it in for the sake ofwe gotta capture we gotta get
this filled. So I really digthat. Mhmm. So talk talk a
little bit about the the editingpiece because having sort of a
(22:33):
unique way of telling a storythat's I'm reading that it's
told from both Direy and Naima'sperspectives.
Boaz Yakin (22:40):
Yeah. It kind of weaves their true stories back.
And sometimes they're together,but a lot of times you're going
off and seeing them separately.
Rob Lee (22:48):
So what were some of the challenges in, like, like,
edit? I I did film forever ago,but not, like, doing film. Like,
you're you're filming. I'm I'm aguy that has a microphone in
front of him. So what was thatediting process like with maybe
like, in maybe shooting the filmor film or some of those
considerations in editing ofbringing the story together with
sort of that unique way of ofblending a story?
(23:08):
Well, I always shoot the editingin mind. Right?
Boaz Yakin (23:11):
Like and and in this one in particular, I knew the
transitions were gonna be soimportant. Like, how one because
there is no traditional story toit, that the emotional
transition from scene to scene,what you see at the end of one
scene, what you see at thebeginning of the next scene
visually is so important that Ireally planned all that out
(23:33):
beforehand. Right? So in termsof editing the story
Mecca Verdell (23:38):
Yeah.
Boaz Yakin (23:38):
It was it it it I I don't wanna say easy because, of
course, the editor JasonCacioppo and I, like, worked
very hard on it. But it it knewwhat it wanted to be from the
script. The challenges were inthe more free flowing scenes
like the dance scenes where, youknow and there's quite a lot of
moments like that in it whereyou have this very focused kind
(23:59):
of one track minded storyhappening, and then suddenly it
explodes into this kind of veryanarchic moments. And those were
definitely the most challengingand and kind of difficult,
things to edit. Like Naima Amecadoes a big rap battle scene.
Last 9 minutes on screen. Andthere's a lot of improvisation
(24:22):
in it. And and they they and theactors were really just feeling
out what they were doing. Andit's a it's a long rap battle.
And, scenes like that reallytook the the most time to edit.
Rob Lee (24:35):
Yeah. I was I was wondering about that because
it's like when I when I think ofdance, I think of street dance,
and I think of, like like likerap battles spoken word. I think
that there's a a sort of rawnessand an energy that you wanna
capture, but then also it's justlike, alright. We're at 7
minutes. Can we get a cut?
It's like, no. No. Keep itrolling. Keep it going. We can
we can do it in post.
Boaz Yakin (24:55):
Yeah. I mean, they Mecca, you can speak to how that
was in the in the rap battle.But obviously, we you know, once
it was all put together, we hadto make our choices.
Mecca Verdell (25:06):
Yeah. I mean, I it was it was definitely a lot
of, like, back because I wroteso much for this scene because I
really it's I was really in amindset of, like, you could
really see everybody else's artas dancers, but it was hard to
be, like, you could see my artbecause that's I'm I'm a writer.
I'm a I that's what I do. And,you know, I'm really happy that
(25:28):
Boaz let me, you know, allow meto do, any writing at all. I
Wow.
Boaz Yakin (25:34):
I was asking. I needed that that was that was I
was begging. Please help makethis better.
Mecca Verdell (25:40):
I mean, I but you didn't need that's the thing,
like somebody had, I remembersomebody has said something when
I was telling them what theycould do, they could snap if
they hear something good andsomebody was like, do you snap
when you hear Boaz's work? And Isaid, absolutely. Because I, I'm
like, you didn't need andespecially so there's 2 there's
2 sections. In the poetrysection, my poetry monologue,
(26:01):
there was only 2 things that Iwanted to to tweak because I
knew it would be more impactfulto me as a woman and a woman
hearing this from myself. Therewas a that was that was the only
thing that I would that I had tothink about the poem itself
though.
It's really profound and I feellike it was it is a great work.
And then when it got to the rapbattle part, I went crazy
(26:23):
because because I'm just it justbecause I'm from Baltimore. And
it's just I am and I'm I'm inAtlantic City, Baltimore hybrid,
raised off rap child. I couldnot I just had, I couldn't have
people coming up to me andthat's that I know in the hip
hop scene and the and the poetryscene, they're like, yeah. So
(26:46):
you all showing stuff, didn'tyou?
I'm like, yes, I did. Yes. I canI can say it because it's just
like it's just so funny? It'sjust so funny, but I'm really
proud that I was it's crazy. Itwas like a I feel like a lot of
what was happening was sointuitive and spiritually led.
We talk y'all y'all always talkabout, like, how, you know,
(27:07):
finding the right places toshoot and film, how lucky we all
were. But I feel like it wasjust so we were just such an we
were all just so intuitive towith each other and really
allowed each other the space todiscover something new. And mind
you, I had this fantasy ofmyself as a battle rapper for,
like, years. And there's a scenethat they actually have in a
(27:31):
trailer where I say, why am Ieven talking to this nigga? And
I'm like, because I've had thatfantasy of my head that as a
battle rapper, I would justignore my opponent and just
start rapping to the crowd.
And then also there's somethingin there where I clap like this.
And it's like, I I consider thatlike a really petty clap, like,
okay. And the fact that peoplegot it, like, understood where I
(27:53):
was coming from with that, like,it's just, like, the ability to
be raw and tap into somethingthat I'm not like at all, it was
very freeing. And I never I feellike that this whole film
process, I learned to trustmyself so much because people
(28:15):
trusted me, and I, you know, I Ionly heard maybe 1 or 2 lines,
like, that I edited, because Iprobably added too much in the
bar for it to make sense. Like,I have this whole pitbull line
that was in there, and I wasjust like, I'm glad y'all took
that out.
It was I'm glad y'all took thatout.
Boaz Yakin (28:31):
That was that was going on a little bit at that
point. You know?
Mecca Verdell (28:34):
It was just so fun. You were look. You know
what exactly what time he leftyou? I was like
Boaz Yakin (28:39):
Oh, no. Jason, the editor, loves rap. He loves rap,
and he would obsess over some ofthose lines. And that was the
hardest because he never wantedto cut anything out of the rap
stuff.
Mecca Verdell (28:51):
Oh, that's so cool.
Boaz Yakin (28:52):
Yeah. But we had to because otherwise it would have
been so long. So Oh, I gottatalk to
Mecca Verdell (28:56):
him about that. That's so cool. Because I'm
like, I'm glad that somebodythey they saw it though. Like,
somebody like, I like, that's Ilove editors because this is,
like, the the right editor inthe program, they can see it,
and they know what's what'ssupposed to happen. They know
what you're trying to do, andthey just finesse it.
Rob Lee (29:15):
That's that's great. And I feel like I also say that
same thing. Like, why have youbeen talking to this guy? I
almost say the same thing. Justpedally clapping to the back of
my hand.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. City CollegeBad Matters back in the day. So
I have one real question left,and then I have a few rapid fire
(29:37):
questions if you'll both indulgeme.
So this sort of last question isfor both of you. And you know,
as we close, you know, what wereany of the impactful or or
memorable ones that kinda, like,stick out, like, just top of
mind, you know, within theproduction or the sort of, like,
the full process of even maybeeven from audition to production
(29:58):
to like sort of, you know, thefilm being out out there? And
sort of what conversations are,are you hoping to maybe spark or
maybe contribute to, whether itis in, black love, artistic
expression, art in general,dance? What are what are the
conversations that perhapsyou're you're hoping that this
film becomes a part
Boaz Yakin (30:19):
of? I won't evade the question, but I will say
that, you know, once you finishsomething, it it's not yours
anymore. I mean, of course, I,of course, I feel a sense of
investment in it, and I want itto reach people and all that.
But you have to let go of anidea almost even of what you
want people to take away. Like,it's just gonna be what people
(30:41):
bring to it and and and but I dofeel, like, if I have any hope
for it, it's on a creative levelthat people are always saying
they want something different,and then they're lying because
they don't really want somethingdifferent.
They want the same shit thatmaybe looks a little different.
I agree. I would love I would II would love to have people
(31:04):
engage with this and go, wow.It's possible to really
experience and see and dosomething different. And it can
still connect emotionally and beentertaining and interesting,
and you can sit through it foran hour 45 minutes.
You know what I mean? So sothat's something I I really
wanna take from it. And, look,I'm not a black filmmaker.
(31:25):
Right? I'm I'm a Jewish guy fromNew York City, although I've
made a number of films thatheavily involve black characters
and themes and so on.
But I do, if I might, andhopefully don't don't get yelled
at for this. If there's onething that I do hope from this,
it's that it opens up whatpeople are willing to see from
(31:46):
black films or for films thathave black characters in them.
The way it's presented, thepoetry, the universality of our
experience.
Rob Lee (31:55):
Yeah.
Boaz Yakin (31:56):
And the fact that it can be specific to a culture
that way, like, Rennie and Meccaand Jerome, like, would bring
the reality of it and and andthe grounding of it. But it can
be poetic and surrealistic, andit doesn't have to be a certain
thing. Like, a film with blackactors or a black film, if you
wanna call it that, can beanything. Just the way a
(32:18):
European film can be. Just theway a Russian film can be or a a
Japanese film can be.
Right? Like and and so for me,in terms of that, that's
something that I hope peopletake away from this movie. It's
it's not like it's my mission,but I really do hope that people
can take that away from this.
Rob Lee (32:38):
Thank thank you so much. And then to echo, before I
move to to me, I could echo herher chime in there as well. I
I'm on the same page. I agree somuch that and I was working on
questions earlier around thistopic of folks talking about we
want something so different. Andso I was like, no, you just want
something that feels slightlypackaged different.
And it's part of it is the Mayaconcept, you know, most advanced
(33:00):
yet acceptable. But it's reallyjust a pastiche of the old stuff
that we we already have. Andyeah. I mean yeah. And I I will
say that this is a wildreference before I moved to
Mecca.
On occasions, I like to bust thestupid dope moves. I always
reference Fresh, so, you know,follow your work for for for a
while.
Boaz Yakin (33:22):
Those lines are gonna haunt me forever.
Rob Lee (33:24):
It's a great line. It's in multiple rap songs.
Mecca Verdell (33:28):
Oh, I love it.
Boaz Yakin (33:31):
I'm trying
Mecca Verdell (33:31):
to figure it out. I'm more of an uptown girl
myself. So, you know, it's justso funny. Yeah. I love that.
No. I love that. And that's whyI'm so happy that Boas is coming
to Baltimore. I just think thatand I'm so happy to be a part
of, like, a legacy of films likethis. I was gonna one of my, my
(33:56):
what's it called my marketingtactics, if you will, was going
to be how I am 6 degrees fromDenzel Washington now or 6
degrees from Wicked and allthese other great things.
It's just, I mean, I, you know,it doesn't matter if I actually
meet these people, which I'mexcited. Hey, the app is app is,
you know what I mean? But thefact that I am a part of this
(34:19):
legacy of films
Rob Lee (34:20):
Yeah.
Mecca Verdell (34:20):
It's, it's it's a win for me. And I think for me,
this whole process has been morepersonal. I just feel like
somebody saw me. Somebody knewthat I had whatever connection
that I have to acting that I'vehad my whole life and you know I
(34:46):
you know it's just it's justpersonal for me I think what I
hope people can get from this isthat I am I have arrived. I have
arrived with my full self, and Iput my entire I feel like I put
my entire being into thisprocess, into this film, and I
and I saw myself.
(35:07):
I saw myself very clearly, andI'm just really proud of it. And
I think, you know, I don't wantpeople to come in, you know,
thinking about how to dissect mein a different way. I just want
people to come and see. It'slike it's like I I it's like
I've had this feeling ofbringing it home because it
(35:28):
feels like I'm putting somethingon the fridge, you know? I'm
putting a picture, a drawing onthe fridge, just to be like, hi,
look.
I did it. So, yeah, I think thisprocess is just a lot more
personal for me, especially asmy first one. Once I get in a
couple movies in, I'll becomemore, like, I know what people
should get from this movie. Butit is, is a poet it is poetry.
(35:53):
The film is poetry.
So it's not like you have to tryand make it something. Just just
approach it and just see what itmakes inside of you as you're
watching it, as you're seeingit. It's a poetry film. It's a
poetry film. It's a dance film.
It's an art film.
Rob Lee (36:12):
Thank you. And, yeah, it's, it's it's one of those
things when you you mentionedthe the the poetry piece. You
mentioned sort of the, you know,just that just feeling like
you've arrived. It's, you athing that I talk about on
occasion and diving into filmsthat have this they have a lot
of, like, African American havea lot of Black folk in it. It
(36:33):
almost has this sort ofthrowback quality of the subject
matter while being somethingthat has the supernatural
elements, this innovativestorytelling, the dance, and so
on.
And it just makes me think, Whyare there more of these? So
hopefully, that's another thingthat happens because I like to
dive into films. And, yeah, and,the last thing I'll say before I
(36:54):
move to these rapid firequestions, this is another part
of that thing I was touching onbefore we got started of looking
at folks' backgrounds. I can saythat I'm few, you know, 6 steps
removed from Dolph Lundgren.That's another another
reference.
Yeah. One of my favorite moviesas a kid. So, shout out to the
punisher back in the day. Yeah.So I got 3 rapid fire questions
(37:19):
that, I must ask.
I'm just, you know, burning,burning to ask these. So the
first one I've got to ask. So,you know, NYC, right? I got the
New York, you know, sort of vibethat's there. I'm always curious
about sort of minutiae andpeople's, like, favorites.
Right? So what is, like, a NewYork staple food? Some people
(37:41):
throw out their bagels. Somepeople throw out there as a nice
slice. What's what's your take?
I I wanna hear it. I wanna hear,like, you know, it's gotta be
this. And I like when someonesays it's gotta be this from a
specific place. So if you will,Boaz, please, what is your New
York staple?
Boaz Yakin (37:56):
I'm gonna be so unoriginal. But a slice of
pizza, not so hot that you can'tcarry it with you, and you can
eating a slice of pizza whileyou're walking through the city.
That has to be the most NewYork, my favoritest thing ever.
Of course, I can't do it thatmuch now because it'd make me
(38:17):
fat as fuck. But, like, but thatis my favorite favorite thing to
do, definitely.
Slice while wonky.
Rob Lee (38:25):
I love it.
Mecca Verdell (38:26):
And so, yeah, as you know, I've I've traveled.
I've been traveling New Yorksince I was a teenager, but I go
to whenever I go to the dramabook shop, there is a pizza shop
that's all around that corner. Idon't know the names of
anything, but I I am a I am anavid, I am always I'm always at
the drama bookshop picking up anew book, trying to find a new
(38:47):
mom blog, and then I go to thatpizza shop right there. That and
yeah. But when I would travel, Iwould always get a, bacon, egg,
and cheese and a milk tea a milktea at, down Downtown Chinatown
Chinatown Chinatown.
So but because the Chinatown bustakes you to Chinatown. I don't
(39:08):
know what I forgot what streetthat is at this point, but I
would get milk tea because itwould always be cold as hell and
a bacon, egg, and cheese.
Rob Lee (39:18):
See, I was I I like that you said bacon, egg, and
cheese. I I like a nice bacon,egg, and cheese, and I do walk
with my pizza in hand,regularly. My my girl's from
Brooklyn. She was just like,look. This is the way you're
supposed to do these things.
Like, don't
Boaz Yakin (39:32):
Traditional way.
Rob Lee (39:33):
100%. So I wanna talk about time a little bit. So, you
know, is there a specific erathat really sticks out, you
know, for you that just feltlike creativity was just it was
a really great time forcreativity. Like, some people
talk about, you know, I like theeighties because of the excess
(39:54):
or, you know, for me, I likeMiami Vice. I don't know.
Is there a specific, like, timethat you wish you could create
or work during that time becauseof the creative, like, output
during that era if you couldtime travel back?
Boaz Yakin (40:06):
Well, don't get me started on this because that's a
whole other podcast.
Mecca Verdell (40:09):
That's the
Boaz Yakin (40:10):
that that the whole 2, 3 hour podcast. But because I
mean, it's it's almost before mytime as a creative person a
little bit, but I was a kidduring the late sixties, early
seventies. And to me, being afilmmaker, American film
between, like, 1966, 67, and1981 is the height of a
(40:31):
combination of freedom anddiscipline and focus and just
the best kind of explosion ofAmerican cinema. You know? And,
very, very much do I, like,suffer from not being able to be
making films during that era.
We are in the worst I mean, theeighties was excess and all that
(40:53):
and kinda started to dip. Thenineties had some independent
film that was pretty cool, butstill it was a drop from the
seventies. And, man, right nowis the worst film has ever been
ever in the history of Americancinema. It's so bad. So I'll I I
won't be I won't be negative,though.
We'll keep fighting. We'll keepfighting the good fight and
(41:14):
trying to make interestingthings.
Rob Lee (41:17):
Well, thank you for that.
Mecca Verdell (41:19):
I, I personally would wanna be I I think I love
the twenties. I think, aroundthat time is when, especially
around the I think maybe itmight be the 30s, I don't know,
I remember I was doing a, a worka workshop, like it was like a
(41:40):
couple weeks series workshop,learning about Black the history
of Black theater. And there wasa time where the it was these 2
musicals these 2 Black musicalsthat were virtually the exact
same. 1 came from Chicago, onewas premiering in New York, and
then there's one show fromChicago came New York, and they
(42:02):
were, like, right down thestreet from each other. The
exact same type of show, thesame show, and they were just
going they were just going atit.
And there's something sohilarious, but also tragic
because at the time duringthose, productions, you know,
they had all these theseBroadway was racist. So, you
know, it was they were facingthose challenges while also
(42:24):
beefing with each other andthere's something so funny about
that story. I have to go backinto my notes and figure out
exactly what those are but thatand also I've always wanted to
play I think I wanna playhistorical figures. I think I
wanna play, like, you know, youknow a young Black woman during
her first debutante ball or likeyou know during those times
(42:46):
where like Black women are theywere they were organizing those
types of things or you know, anunderground, like, sometimes I
have fantasies of anunderground, filmmaking group,
like, when Black people weremaking films and making their
first films and things likethat. I have imaginations like
that, but they're alwayshistorical.
(43:08):
Yeah. So that's something Ireally would love to do. Other
than that, I secretly wannaplay, Sister Souljah in a
biopic. I think I I think Icould.
Rob Lee (43:20):
Absolutely. So this this is the this is the last
one, the last one I got for youtoo. And I I'm a big fan of sort
of poly polymaths, like,especially, like, creative
polymaths. It's like you do allof these different things. And
if I'm looking for a creativeboost, I'm looking at
interviews.
I'm looking to try to just getsort of this creative thinking,
(43:43):
this creative and designthinking. So for for the 2 of
you, is there a book, a song,movie, or something, a a piece
of creative output that youreturn to for that that kind of
boost, that creative boost? It'slike, I'm gonna get something
from this, you know, and maybeit shows up in your work or
maybe it just kinda gets you outof a creative rut. Is there
something that you return to fora creative boost?
Boaz Yakin (44:05):
Yeah. I would say that even beyond creative, just
in my in in my life, my creativelife, that the the writer that I
most go back to every wow. Thatwas so wild how you have that
weird background going and,like, it looked like your water
appeared out of the blue. Likelike, it magically appeared in
(44:28):
your hand. That that that was atrip.
Sorry. So I interrupted myself.But, the writer that I go back
to the most when I need to feela sense of energy and excitement
and, like, freedom and courageto explore anything and
everything personal is, HenryMiller, who also wrote in the
(44:52):
twenties, thirties, and forties.And and he's the writer that
when I discovered him when Iwas, like, 23 years old, just
opened my mind and made me notwanna make commercial stupid
movies anymore. And that I waslike, that's how I'd started
out.
And suddenly, I was like, whatam I doing? And, you know, ruin
my life because I could havebeen rich and successful right
(45:13):
now. But, instead, you know,Henry Miller just opened this
door onto a whole different wayof looking at the world and
looking at creativity and art,and at life. And, you know,
every once every few years, 3,4, 5 years, I might not have
looked at it, then I'll just go,I gotta crack open one of these
(45:33):
books. And I always find myself.
Where and the great thing withhis books is you can just jump
in at any point and open up abook in the middle. It's like,
they're not really stories, soyou can kinda just go in and
open them anywhere. And, I findmyself refreshed and
reinvigorated. So, yeah, I wouldsay that that that writer.
Rob Lee (45:54):
Thank you.
Mecca Verdell (45:55):
I love studying people's lives. So I love
documentaries. I think, theythey just really inspired me to
think about characters' livesand how those things could
influence a person to dosomething different or try
something new, and then a storykinda comes out of that. Because
I watch a I watch a lot ofinterviews, but growing up, all
(46:18):
I watched was comedy specials.And I think that's where, like,
I was I should not have been,like, 10 watching Def Jam.
But I was. And I always was thefan of storytelling in those
ways. So people like so like,especially when I'm, like,
feeling really comfortable andI'm just talking to people. I
(46:39):
remember one time somebody waslike, you talk like you're in a
comedy special. And I was like,oh, I didn't I never noticed
that before.
And, you know, also, it's I'mvery influenced by my own
dreams. I have very, very vivid,very crazy cookie dreams, and I,
(47:02):
I would write those down, try tomake something out of those. And
also horror. I love horror videogames. I love video games.
I love the storytelling inreally good video games. I love
finding storytelling in placeswhere they probably weren't as
prominent, you know, back inback, back, back in the day, but
lore has somehow came out of it,things that allow you to imagine
(47:25):
that there is something elsebehind this
Boaz Yakin (47:28):
that
Mecca Verdell (47:28):
is influencing this character to run-in
circles, rather than the factthat they never said that there
was a whole story to begin with.Why fan like, you know, fan
fiction. So things that kind oflet you imagine things that, you
know, are that the whole anotherworld, I love stuff like that.
So I'll just, like, keep findingthat, go watch video game here
(47:49):
and see what where it takes me.
Rob Lee (47:51):
Yeah. That's great. That's great. I I have a few
things to share with you afterthis. If you're you're a sudden
a horror, I got a few things toshare with you.
Mecca Verdell (47:58):
Okay. Let's do it.
Rob Lee (48:01):
But, before we get there, I want to do this this
sort of wrap up and, again,thanking you both for coming on
and and spending some time withme. And in these final moments,
there are 2 things I want to do.1, again, thank you both. And
and 2
Boaz Yakin (48:14):
Thank you. I want to yeah.
Rob Lee (48:15):
Thank you. And and 2, I wanna invite and encourage you
to share any final thoughts, anywebsite, social media, anything
that you wanna share as we closeout here. You know, the floor is
yours. So, Boaz, if you will, ifyou have anything you wanna
share in these final moments,the floor is yours.
Boaz Yakin (48:30):
No. I I just appreciate you you having us on
and and and spending some timeand talking to us, means a lot.
And, you know, we are going tohave a a screening, in Baltimore
of the film on, 21st. Mecca cancan tell tell you where your
your listeners where it is, but,I mean, we would love nothing
(48:51):
more than for you to, be yourlisteners, a few of your
listeners to come and join usand and see the film. We would
we would be really grateful andappreciative.
Absolutely.
Mecca Verdell (49:03):
Absolutely. Yeah. I I mean, I pushed for this to
happen because I really feltlike, you know, I'm a programmer
here. I'm a teacher. I'm anartist through and through.
I'm a community member throughand through. And you can ask
Boaz. I talked about Baltimorenonstop. It's all the it be you
know, it's a part of me. And Ithink, you know, it's important
(49:26):
to really source my identitywhile I am in other places
because it fuels why I do what Ido.
And bringing it home, bringingit to Baltimore, even though
this isn't where I was born,it's where I became a real
artist, like, a real, realartist, and, you know, pushed me
to make it my career and pushedme to believe that it could be
(49:48):
my career, I'm just really proudthat it'll be here and people
can see it. And, you know, ifyou miss it, you miss it. Sorry.
I can try to make some otherthings move. But
Boaz Yakin (50:02):
Where is it playing Mecca?
Mecca Verdell (50:03):
Oh, I'm about to yeah, I was about to say. It's
going to be at the ParkwayTheater, November 21st. We're
going to have a happy hour from6 to 7. And then, there's gonna
be, like, 10 to 15 minutes oftrailers from local filmmakers.
We'll play the film, and thenwe'll have a q and a with our
(50:24):
producers, Boaz, and myself.
Rob Lee (50:26):
And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank Mecca
Vordell and Boaz Joaquin forcoming on to the podcast to
share a bit of their stories andto tell us about once again for
the very first time. It wastruly a a fun conversation. And
for Mecha and Boaz, I am Rob Leesaying that there's art,
culture, and community in andaround your neck of the woods.
(50:47):
You've just gotta look for it.
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