June 26, 2024 • 31 mins
Is maintaining a 4.0 GPA really the key to becoming a great counselor? Join us as we tackle this provocative question and explore the true value of academic performance in graduate school, especially within counseling programs. We'll share eye-opening anecdotes about the immense pressure students face and the often misleading emphasis on grades. Discover how the real-world skills necessary for effective therapy can often be overlooked in favor of GPA, and why this disparity matters.
Navigating graduate school isn't just about hitting academic milestones; it's about balancing expectations, ethics, and intelligence beyond books. Listen as we discuss the evolving role of educators, the pressures on faculty and students, and the critical need for authentic communication. From humorous tales of unique cohort dynamics to the shifting perspectives on academic success, this episode underscores the importance of mastering content and building real-world skills. Join us for a nuanced look at how educational motivations impact the future of counseling.
If you have any questions about any counseling related topics or would like the twins to share their thoughts about a particular counseling case - reach out with the info below:
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I don't think, I don't think Students realize how
hard it is to pull your gradesup.
You know, when you're struggling, when you're struggling yeah,
when you're struggling to gofrom like, to go from like a 4.0
because everybody starts outwith that to like 1.7, you know,
(00:38):
and then you got, like you know, two, three years to like try
to pull your grade.
Like the highest you'll be ableto pull your grades up to is
2.8.
Yeah, bro, depending on whichgrade you take, yeah, like, how
hard that is.
I don't think studentsunderstand we didn't bro the
(01:00):
cosmic impact of it.
Yeah, cosmic meaning just likein your world.
Yeah, you're you, you're theuniverse, universe in your world
.
You know what I mean.
Like, yeah, like, yeah, it's,it's almost like dog, like
remember when we got that lettersaying like, hey, if you don't
pull it up, like you're gonnaget kicked out of university.
(01:20):
You know what I mean.
Like you get that letter, dog,and and that's it.
Listen, yeah, that's it.
You're never gonna, you'renever gonna be at a 4.0, that's
it.
Yeah, like those f's yeah,you're gonna be there.
You know what I mean.
They're gonna be there.
(01:41):
Listen, listen.
You will have to answer forthose f's at some point in your
career at some point, at somepoint at some point.
Yeah, you know, you know, butbut like dog and this is the
thing with, like, graduatestudents is that you know, I
have students who come into our.
I had a student the other daywho was like you know, hey, dr,
also like, is there any researchprojects you can be a part of?
(02:04):
You know, and it's like, doc, Iof course, like I want you to
be a part of them.
Do, do, do all of that stuff,man.
But also that that stuff is, um, just not as important.
You know, yeah, like, like,just like your gpa.
You know, your gpa it's like,it's great, like get a full
point on.
You know, but that stuff isjust not as important on the
(02:26):
next level, you know, yeah, and,and if it is, if it is, you
don't want to go to that programanyway.
Yeah, yeah, well, so well, Ithink that's that's one of the,
that's one of the biggest thingsthat I think I was talking to
some of my students like twoweeks ago about that.
Uh, it's one of the biggestmisconceptions about graduate
school Is that, like, especiallygraduate school, in counseling,
(02:48):
you know, is that, is thatgrades are, like you know,
extremely important.
You know, and it's like I mean,yeah, they're important when
you're taking like your, whenyou're doing coursework and you
haven't gotten to like clinicalsyet, and so, like they're
important to.
It's like a buy-in in a workout, you know, and like good grades
allows you to buy into, youknow, pre-practicum, practicum
(03:08):
and internship, you know.
So, yeah, cool, but like thegood grades kind of don't mean
anything when it comes to likedoing actual psychotherapy.
You know, like you can have asmany good grades as you want,
but, like, once you start likeseeing people, you know, like
once you start to like getinundated with like the human
(03:30):
experience, man, it becomesincreasingly hard to be like oh
yeah, I remember this from thetextbook in real time.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
Like in real time, when you'resitting in front of somebody,
you know like, yeah, there'sbeen several times where I've
said, oh yeah, I'm glad that Iread this in that textbook
somewhere because it helped'm.
I'm, I'm actually in sessionand I'm like, oh yeah, let me
(04:08):
refer back to page 32, when wetalked about this specific thing
.
You know like, nah, man, likekind of in a way in in a way,
sometimes it feels like all hellis breaking loose in session,
especially early on in yourcareer.
You know, um, yeah, and thatit's that feeling of like
unbridled fear, yeah, yeah, butit's crazy, it's crazy to me how
(04:34):
much faculty members still likedepend on like gpas.
You know, like we, we do that,what you mean, like we do that
sometimes we'll have a cohortthat comes in, you know, and
we'll be like, oh, hey, man,that gpa is whoo hey man, like
the average gpa is like 3.7 but3.8 man.
(04:55):
Oh, baby, we got a good quote.
You know, dog, and it just itnever happens that way.
You know, you, don't you?
You know, you know what makesthe best counselors dog.
You know what's the bestcounselors 2.6 us, us, 2.6, 2.7
(05:15):
us.
You know why, dog.
You know why.
You know why, dog, becausethose 2.6s had to talk to people
to graduate, they had toempathize with people to
graduate.
Jack, like, hey, you're in anoffice with someone they're like
doctor, please, please.
(05:37):
Professor, please, please,please.
Look, I wipe the board, I cleanall the brushes.
You have to go in there humbly,like humble, please, humble.
And it's such a weird paradoxno, no, no, you go in and you go
in Before you even get trainedthat 2.6 is using the counseling
(05:59):
skills.
Already you walk into theprofessor's office and it's like
hey, man, hey, thanks forseeing me today.
Hey, listen, um, how you doing,how you doing, how you doing,
how's your kids?
Everybody doing okay.
Uh-huh, yeah, everybody doingokay, yeah, no, because I saw
you limping on campus the otherday and I thought yeah, man,
I'll talk to someone.
What do you do?
I just want to check in withyou.
(06:20):
You know, I got some, I gotsome.
I got some business.
I want to talk to you, but Ijust want to check with you
first.
You know well, I'm here.
Uh, you know what I mean.
They flipped that 50 minutesession.
Uh-huh, in the in the day.
I got, I got two.
I got, I got two things.
I want to talk to you about two.
You know things and you got awhiteboard.
You got a whiteboard.
Let me get.
The first thing is for me, I'mnot gonna lie, it's for me.
(06:44):
And the second thing is for you, it's for you.
You know, it's more for us,it's more for us.
I'm a champion of thisrelationship, dog, dog, dog.
You know why, dog?
Because the 2.6 wasn't always2.6, was it man?
Yeah, wasn't, it was 2.6.
I think that that thing was a2.6.
(07:05):
Wasn't man?
Wasn't always 2.6.
That thing was a 2.3.
Yeah, to be honest, you had towork for that 2.6.
What you were doing was you wasout there, living life.
You was out there, you wasoutside.
You was outside living life.
Living life, taking yourstreets, living life, taking
(07:26):
your shirt off, doing beer pong.
You know, because you won Putmy business out there when the
cops come to bust down the party.
He was the first one to jumpover the fence.
You know why does he feel?
He was out there living life.
You know, when you say you, youmean like the royal you.
I'm talking more specifically,uh, about like the the you, you,
(07:52):
the, the you.
That's, um, that I'm looking atthe you.
Yep, oh yeah, like the man inthe mirror, yeah, well, your
brother had to.
Your brother had to wash yourclothes after a drunken night on
6th Street in Austin.
Oh, okay, because theratchetness got out of hand.
Hold up, hold up, hold up.
I'm talking about the you.
(08:13):
Yeah, yeah, because with thestudents who did do stuff like
that, yes, yeah, right, yep, thestudents who did stuff like
that, uh-huh, yeah, yep, becauseit couldn't be me, because I'm
a cut.
Nope, uh, no, not me, but, but,but your students who did do
(08:34):
that?
The students did do that.
They had the two pointtherapist.
David.
2.3 is a 2.4 man.
Two more things.
Dog, have you ever seen, haveyou ever?
No, no, no, let me dog, hold on, hold on.
No, no, no, let me get this outto you.
No, I have something importantto say and I beg you the time
and space to say it.
I insist, go ahead, bro.
(08:56):
Hey the 3.7s, hey the 3.7s.
The 3.7s, be up in ethics, shook, fraught with anxiety, fraught
with it, fraught theambiguousness of ethics to a 3.8
(09:18):
.
Oh, my goodness, what happensif my shoelace grazes their
ankle when I go to prison?
The 3.8, I'm not hating, I'mnot saying no, I'm, I'm just
saying it's different.
I remember I had, I remember I,I was asked to, and I won't say
(09:40):
lauren's name out loud, but Iwas asked huh to, and I won't
say Lauren's name out loud, butI was asked huh.
She's actually a really, reallygood comedian.
We should have her on the cast,man, I know, man, we should ask
her.
One time I was put in a mocklock therapy session or
something.
Why are you talking to me likeI don't know this.
Yes, I remember this.
No, I'm, you know, just for the, for the, for the cast.
(10:03):
You know, oh, yeah, uh, thepodcast, yeah, yeah, uh.
And yeah, man, the question oflike, hey, man, do you think
these clients see like your gpawritten on your forehead?
Yeah, like nobody, nobody caresif you got like a 3.8 gpa.
Like they don't say like, oh, Iwant, I want this person
(10:24):
because they have a 3.8 smartone.
I want the smart one.
Yeah, you know, like man, thisI would say graduate school is
one of the first times in mywhole life where I realized I'm
like, oh, there's a different,there's a different type of
intelligence.
Yep, you know, like there's adifferent type of intelligence.
It's not just about it's notjust being like book smart, you
(10:46):
know, it's not just being ableto like, remember and
regurgitate information Like, oh, you actually have, there's
actually like an art to this.
You know, you got to be able tomanipulate people.
I mean, talk to people Whoa,yes, like you gotta be able to
manipulate.
I mean, uh, talk to people whoa, yes, yeah, you gotta be able
to use them dry and not givethem any help, but make them
(11:06):
dependent on you so that theycan continue to pay you.
But seriously, dog, like,seriously, I want the therapist,
bro, I want the therapist withthat like yellow hair because
they've been smoking so much.
You know what I mean.
Like I want that like yellowhair because they've been
smoking so much.
You know what I mean.
Like I, like, I want the.
I want papers everywhere.
You know what I mean.
Like I don't, I don't want themto have a iPad, a touch screen.
(11:31):
Yeah, I don't.
I don't want to see a a, a, a,a cure egg in.
No, I want drip dank blackcoffee.
You know I, man, no, I wantthis person, I want, I want the
therapist to to look at me andgo, yeah, yeah, and me and me to
(11:55):
be able to go.
I, I know man, it, just I, Idon't know I can be myself in
here.
Right before, right before thissession or right before our cast
, I had a session and in thatsession that was the exact thing
that happened.
The minute they popped onto thescreen, I saw them, they saw me
(12:16):
and listen, I'm not going tolie, I don't know if this client
listens to the cast or not.
They probably don't but Ilooked them dead in the eyes and
I was like, oh you lookabsolutely ratchet right now the
bags under your eyes speaksvolumes.
Like what in the hell happenedsince the last time we saw each
(12:37):
other, you know, and they werejust themselves just being able
to be like you know, you know,like bruh bruh I know I don't
think people get that man,especially students, but it's
counselor, educators.
I feel like I think theproportion of that myth that
(13:02):
like you have to be a certainway, because you know, like I
worked at a research one beforeI did UMichB and like in there
we would, there would be like apaper application, and I
remember being in some of thosemeetings where we're trying to
decide on the cohorts and it'slike, no, this student's gpa is
(13:22):
so low they're gonna struggle inresearch and statistics.
It's like do we honestly care?
Yeah, honestly like, if thisperson can computate the
standard deviation by hand, yeah, do we care more of this person
can, can can understand to ametaphysical level the other
person's lived experience?
(13:44):
Yeah, which one is moreimportant?
Yeah, that's the stats, thestatistics.
Dad has got to write thesearticles.
Dad has got to write thesearticles.
Thumb action yeah, dad has gotto write these articles.
These articles don't writethemselves.
How quickly can you do this?
Yeah, yeah, we'll put them,we'll put, we'll put the student
(14:04):
15th on the author sheet.
It's just doc, that's just howit is, man.
And so you got students, dog,perfectly good therapist,
perfectly good therapist talkingabout hey, man, I think I need
to publish, to get to the nextlevel.
Like, yeah, why, why are wedoing this to students?
(14:24):
Man, uh-huh, you know, and tobe fair, listeners, we were
published by the time.
We got to be fair, to be fair,but it, but we stumbled upon
that.
It wasn't like we were you knowwhat I mean like, I mean, well,
actually we were, because ourgpa was terrible.
We, we were like, uh, there'sno way in hell we're gonna get
(14:52):
accepted into graduate schoolunless we're published.
So, yeah, we better.
Yeah, listen, if you, if yougot a 1.7 and it's your freshman
year and you're trying to be atherapist, go ahead on and get
going on, go ahead on, go aheadon, go ahead on, go ahead on,
yeah, cause you're trying to 1.4, but 20 publications, we're
good for them, Go ahead, letthem, let them on in, let them
(16:02):
all in, man, thank you.
So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so,so, so, so, so, so, so, yeah,
man, yeah, hey, but, but, but,hey, but, real, real quick, real
(16:23):
quick.
This I think like theundercurrent of our conversation
.
Man is about, um, like, like,uh, just working as a faculty,
right, being like real educators, right, like real, true
educators, versus being almostlike a concierge service.
(16:47):
You know to where you're like,because I saw something on
social media with this professorfrom Harvard who was saying
that, like you know, he puts ina syllabi like hey, you know,
check out.
You know, he puts in a syllabilike hey, you know, check out,
uh, you're gonna need thisarticle for this, for this paper
, you know.
And he says, like you know,it's austin and austin 1987, you
(17:07):
know, and and the students comein class and they're like hey,
is the, is that paper going tobe provided in the course?
Shell, you know, and theprofessor's like no, no, it's
Austin and Austin 1987.
Go and find the paper, becausesometimes, man, when you do
(17:29):
stuff like that, you don't justfind Austin and Austin 1987.
You find Brumford and Brumford1992.
You found Yellow and Yellow.
You read that reference lesson.
You read the reference Brumford, you know, like 1992, you know,
you found yellow and yellow.
Yep, you read the reference andso like.
So so it just it justaccumulates a lot more knowledge
if I don't help you find it.
But students nowadays, studentsnowadays are more more inclined
(17:58):
to want that type of work donefor them.
For sure, you know, like towant that to like make sure that
, like, everything is likeorganized and tied up in a cute
little bow, because thatambiguity is something that's
like really hard for has like ayou know, 2.5, 2.6 GPA like us.
(18:23):
Man, I'm not saying nothingabout the camera, shit, I'm not
even.
Are you serious?
Nah, like, are you serious?
It's not that I'm not lookingat it, I'm looking at it.
I'm keeping up with the grades,I go through all the files, I
go through all of I'm, I'm a 2.4gpa student is asking material
(18:47):
specific questions.
Right, yeah, a 4.0 3.8 student.
They're asking materialspecific questions as well as
like organizational questionsabout, like, how the course is
working.
You know, like, like, like, uh,are you gonna post this?
(19:07):
Are you gonna post a powerpointonline?
Post a powerpoint online.
Are you gonna go back and lookat this powerpoint while you're
working a full-time job andtaking care of kids?
Like, no man take really goodnotes while you're in class so
you can reference the notes.
You really want me to post thispowerpoint online?
Okay, listen, my powerpoint hasit's a three-hour lecture and I
(19:29):
got eight slides with fivepictures.
Like it's not a lot on thispowerpoint, you know, but like
that's the.
I feel like that's that's the.
I feel like that's the.
That's the difference.
I feel like that's like the,the dynamic that sometimes I see
in the classroom where you havesome students, it feels like it
(19:50):
comes from a place of anxiety.
Yeah, yeah, when I worked atTulane University, dog, I was on
this committee and and thecommittee was, like, you know
what the name of the committeewas?
It was the hospitalitycommittee, right, and like our
job.
Our job was to make sure that,like, our students felt like
(20:12):
they were being like, taken careof.
Yeah, I'm on that committee.
I'm on that committee for myuniversity.
Yeah, listen, man, I'm all forthat, right, because, like,
sometimes there has to be alegitimate like person to person
.
Hey, my name's Dr Austin.
I'm here to help.
What do you need, you know?
But, man, some, sometimes,especially like in graduate
(20:33):
school, I think sometimesstudents can go a little like
overboard with, like the thingsthat they require to be like
given to them right throughouttheir like education.
Like, I need you to provide mewith direction on.
Like hey, I may go over theword count.
Are you gonna mark off for me?
(20:54):
You know like.
Are you gonna mark off?
Yeah, you know like.
Uh, when we're doing thegenogram, does it need to be
like immediate family?
You know, if you give them theanswer of like, I don't know.
Like, whatever you want it tobe, you know Whatever you want
it to be, this assignment is notabout immediate family.
(21:16):
It's about, like you actuallyexperiencing the process of
discovery of your family.
But that's the thing I feellike sometimes is missed.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, yeah, like dog, when wewere struggling, right, dog, and
we were in class and we get thesyllabon assignment, like, one
of the first questions we wouldask is, like what does the
professor actually want?
(21:37):
Mm-hmm, like, what are they notsaying they want?
Yeah, like, why are we doingthis assignment here?
Because we're looking from aplace of like safety.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
We're not looking from a placeof achievement.
Oh my god, dog, that's, youknow, that's, that's so.
That is so spot on, man, we'renot.
(21:58):
We're not looking like how canI do my best?
No, we're looking for, like,how can I achieve the highest
grades?
Yep, we're not.
We're not saying that.
How can I not get hurt, youknow?
Okay, so this professor wantsme to experience my family.
So, as, as long as what I dogives the professor what they
need, then I'm gonna do that andI'm not gonna worry about you
(22:22):
know, like, yep, am I doing itcorrectly or this or that?
You know what I mean?
The thing that's the mostfrustrating.
You know what we do?
No, dog, didn't you know whatwe do, dog, that we go and meet
with that faculty and talk tothem, yep, and see how they are.
Yep, you know, and get a goodfeeling for, like, are they a
stickler, are they pretty chill?
Are they all right?
Yep, okay, once I get a goodfeeling of that, then great, I
(22:46):
don't need to ask you a singlething.
You know why?
Because the last you'll neverhear from you, the last you even
know I'm here and I can justturn in these assignments and I
can just do my best and do whatI think you want me to do and
get about this class.
You know, and it wasn't until,it wasn't until, like, it wasn't
(23:07):
until graduate school that wewere like, okay, I actually want
to learn this stuff.
Yeah, you know, let me not justlike get a part of this class.
Yep, you know, but but thething about the thing about
graduate school is that, likeman, if you can genuinely learn
the material and you canincorporate the material into
like the way that you they dothe work, then like you're gonna
(23:29):
pass the class, you're gonnapass the class, you're gonna
pass, then, like you're, you'regoing to pass the class, you're
going to pass the class, you'regoing to pass the class.
And if you can, and if you canshow that, if you can show, you
can show it.
You know what I mean.
If you can show, like, hey,look, I'm in this theories class
.
We learned all these theories.
They picked three to conceptual.
Let me go hard on this stuff,you know, because I know you
(23:50):
don't want me to just storytell.
Yeah, I know you don't want meto just storytell.
You want to know can Iunderstand life through the
prism of these theories?
That's what I'm going to giveyou.
You said five pages, doc.
I'm writing four and a halfpages, like it's on the fifth
page.
I am not going over five pages.
(24:10):
Yeah, like it's on the fifthpage.
I am not going over five pages.
Yeah, I won't have to ask aquestion, like if it's just two
guys, but that's.
But that's the thing.
Five pages, that's the thing.
Listen, the five pages is asuggestion.
I would really hope that youwould stay within the five pages
because it makes it easier forme to get through all of these
papers and give you really goodfeedback.
If you go overboard, I'm notgoing to be pissed overboard,
(24:31):
I'm not gonna be pissed like.
I'm gonna be like, I'm notgonna be pissed, but what I will
be like, what I will bethinking, is like, how come you
couldn't do five pages?
Okay, like, what about thisassignment made you feel like it
was.
You were like incapable ofkeeping it within the boundaries
of the site.
You know and like and whereelse, where else in life, where
(24:53):
else in life are you gonna like,push these boundaries?
You know, like, like now, now Ihave to deal with it, now I
have to deal with it.
So now I got through all yourthroughout, your, your tenure
here in this program.
Now I'm gonna have to watch,you know, just see if you're
gonna know what you know.
And it eventually happens.
You're in session.
(25:14):
It's not for that student toget out of session because we
need that room, yeah, and thenyou go over 10 minutes, just
like you did in the paper.
It's like you did in the paper.
It's it's like come on, man,now that 2.5 student 10 minutes
left in the session.
Hey, we got 10 minutes left.
That 2.5 student may only write4 pages.
(25:34):
Because they're like, this isgood enough and I'll take the
points.
I'll take the points off if Idon't reach the 5 pages.
And then you read it and it isgreat, it's succinct, it's great
.
This could be, this could be ourbiases, right, because, you
know, because we were failures.
(25:55):
Yeah, we were absolutely,without question, horrible
students, without question, andnot to throw us in another
tangent dog, but not because wedidn't try, and I know we talked
about this on the podcast a lotdog, but it's just salient man,
that's just, hey, real quick.
Though I do think that, likefor like the 3.8 and the 3.9 and
(26:19):
the 4.0, and even like the 4.1and 4.2, I think that's a fair
amount of safety for them too,you know, like, I think, I think
getting that high of a GPA issafety for them too, For sure,
for sure, I've never met a reallife 3.9 or a 3.4, 4.0, or a
real life.
We don't stay friends.
(26:39):
We don't stay friends.
We got some great students, man, great students who learn a
lesson that everybody elselearns.
You know that, like chill, justchill, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Else learns, you know that,like chill, yep, just chill,
(27:00):
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, man, yeah, yeah, anyway,
all right, man, you got anythingelse to add?
Man, I felt like we just kindof like, we just kind of led
into these, like you know, 3.8,3.9ers.
Don't let it lead into 3.8.
Y'all fine, bruh, y'all fine,it's okay.
It's okay, you probably can'ttherapy yourself out of a brown
paper bag, but it's fine.
(27:20):
You got a 3.8 and you lookstellar.
You made it into Chi, sigma,iota, and you are pressed for
time.
You are a big man on campus.
No, I think I'm more upset about, I think I'm more upset about
counselor educators who, like,put such a big emphasis on GPA,
(27:42):
yeah, and use the GPA as anindicator of, like, student
success, how well a student isgoing to be as a clinician, yeah
, where I don't think thatcorrelation or coefficient is
high enough for us.
All right, let me, let me, youknow, that's my, you know, when
you start talking aboutcoefficients, that's my cue to
end the cast.
I think it's probably a strongrelationship.
It's been great, but no, hey,it's been great.
Guys, I don't want to be.
(28:03):
Let me go ahead and spare you,because you can start talking
about uh, z scores and t scoresand q scores and j scores.
I just don't think.
I just, you know, I don't wantto, I just, yeah, I don't think
you need to hear about xyz testsand q tests and t tests and r
tests and I just don't think, Ijust don't know, I just don't
know, man, I don't know.
(28:24):
Man, I don't know.
But what I do know I.
But I do know that you get abusted can of biscuits.
Person with a life that's adumpster fire, you can whip them
up into Carl Rogers easily.
Somebody that has got a habit.
I don't even know what thehabit is.
It's a habit.
You don't have to be anaddiction, it's a habit.
(28:46):
They whittle too much.
They just whittle too much.
They like to wear mittens insession.
Yeah, they get it.
They just whittle too much.
They like to wear mittens insession.
Yeah, they get it.
They get it, they get it.
I could make that person atherapist Easy.
They got a Scrabble habit or acrossword puzzle habit.
They got a Wurdle Wurdle habit.
(29:07):
Yeah, send them, send them tome, send them to Jude's program.
Yeah, over here in Louisiana wedo things a little different.
We don't like habits, we justwant you to be a regular person.
And I know some of y'all arelistening to this saying, well,
what does regular mean?
You know what regular means?
Try to act all liberal.
You know what regular meansShit.
(29:29):
You know what a regular is Shit.
Everyone's their own littlestuff.
Okay, but there's one person inthe cohort when everybody in the
cohort is like, yeah, tim'sjust a little different, you
know.
Yeah, I saw him holding hisfinger over an open flame the
(29:55):
other day.
I, you know, uh, yeah, man, timasks everybody to take their
shoes off before they get in thegroup.
I, you know, everybody outthere, barefoot grouping out
there, you know.
Anyway, let me go before mykids barge in.
All right, man, hey, man, hey,we'll see y'all next week.
(30:16):
I didn't even do an intro tothis episode, I didn't even like
.
There's no like.
Hey, welcome to the cash.
Y'all, welcome back.
You know, this week we'retalking about this, all right,
hey, next week, though, I dowant to share a little bit about
the golf tournament that uhcause.
Kyra is going to be in a golftournament tomorrow.
So, oh yeah, I forgot to wearmy cause.
I won that golf tournament onFriday.
(30:36):
I forgot to wear my medal.
Oh man, yeah, all right.
Well, anyway, I will see y'allif we're still doing this.
Thank you,
I don't think, I don't think Students realize how
hard it is to pull your gradesup.
You know, when you're struggling, when you're struggling yeah,
when you're struggling to gofrom like, to go from like a 4.0
because everybody starts outwith that to like 1.7, you know,
(00:38):
and then you got, like you know, two, three years to like try
to pull your grade.
Like the highest you'll be ableto pull your grades up to is
2.8.
Yeah, bro, depending on whichgrade you take, yeah, like, how
hard that is.
I don't think studentsunderstand we didn't bro the
(01:00):
cosmic impact of it.
Yeah, cosmic meaning just likein your world.
Yeah, you're you, you're theuniverse, universe in your world
.
You know what I mean.
Like, yeah, like, yeah, it's,it's almost like dog, like
remember when we got that lettersaying like, hey, if you don't
pull it up, like you're gonnaget kicked out of university.
(01:20):
You know what I mean.
Like you get that letter, dog,and and that's it.
Listen, yeah, that's it.
You're never gonna, you'renever gonna be at a 4.0, that's
it.
Yeah, like those f's yeah,you're gonna be there.
You know what I mean.
They're gonna be there.
(01:41):
Listen, listen.
You will have to answer forthose f's at some point in your
career at some point, at somepoint at some point.
Yeah, you know, you know, butbut like dog and this is the
thing with, like, graduatestudents is that you know, I
have students who come into our.
I had a student the other daywho was like you know, hey, dr,
also like, is there any researchprojects you can be a part of?
(02:04):
You know, and it's like, doc, Iof course, like I want you to
be a part of them.
Do, do, do all of that stuff,man.
But also that that stuff is, um, just not as important.
You know, yeah, like, like,just like your gpa.
You know, your gpa it's like,it's great, like get a full
point on.
You know, but that stuff isjust not as important on the
(02:26):
next level, you know, yeah, and,and if it is, if it is, you
don't want to go to that programanyway.
Yeah, yeah, well, so well, Ithink that's that's one of the,
that's one of the biggest thingsthat I think I was talking to
some of my students like twoweeks ago about that.
Uh, it's one of the biggestmisconceptions about graduate
school Is that, like, especiallygraduate school, in counseling,
(02:48):
you know, is that, is thatgrades are, like you know,
extremely important.
You know, and it's like I mean,yeah, they're important when
you're taking like your, whenyou're doing coursework and you
haven't gotten to like clinicalsyet, and so, like they're
important to.
It's like a buy-in in a workout, you know, and like good grades
allows you to buy into, youknow, pre-practicum, practicum
(03:08):
and internship, you know.
So, yeah, cool, but like thegood grades kind of don't mean
anything when it comes to likedoing actual psychotherapy.
You know, like you can have asmany good grades as you want,
but, like, once you start likeseeing people, you know, like
once you start to like getinundated with like the human
(03:30):
experience, man, it becomesincreasingly hard to be like oh
yeah, I remember this from thetextbook in real time.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
Like in real time, when you'resitting in front of somebody,
you know like, yeah, there'sbeen several times where I've
said, oh yeah, I'm glad that Iread this in that textbook
somewhere because it helped'm.
I'm, I'm actually in sessionand I'm like, oh yeah, let me
(04:08):
refer back to page 32, when wetalked about this specific thing
.
You know like, nah, man, likekind of in a way in in a way,
sometimes it feels like all hellis breaking loose in session,
especially early on in yourcareer.
You know, um, yeah, and thatit's that feeling of like
unbridled fear, yeah, yeah, butit's crazy, it's crazy to me how
(04:34):
much faculty members still likedepend on like gpas.
You know, like we, we do that,what you mean, like we do that
sometimes we'll have a cohortthat comes in, you know, and
we'll be like, oh, hey, man,that gpa is whoo hey man, like
the average gpa is like 3.7 but3.8 man.
(04:55):
Oh, baby, we got a good quote.
You know, dog, and it just itnever happens that way.
You know, you, don't you?
You know, you know what makesthe best counselors dog.
You know what's the bestcounselors 2.6 us, us, 2.6, 2.7
(05:15):
us.
You know why, dog.
You know why.
You know why, dog, becausethose 2.6s had to talk to people
to graduate, they had toempathize with people to
graduate.
Jack, like, hey, you're in anoffice with someone they're like
doctor, please, please.
(05:37):
Professor, please, please,please.
Look, I wipe the board, I cleanall the brushes.
You have to go in there humbly,like humble, please, humble.
And it's such a weird paradoxno, no, no, you go in and you go
in Before you even get trainedthat 2.6 is using the counseling
(05:59):
skills.
Already you walk into theprofessor's office and it's like
hey, man, hey, thanks forseeing me today.
Hey, listen, um, how you doing,how you doing, how you doing,
how's your kids?
Everybody doing okay.
Uh-huh, yeah, everybody doingokay, yeah, no, because I saw
you limping on campus the otherday and I thought yeah, man,
I'll talk to someone.
What do you do?
I just want to check in withyou.
(06:20):
You know, I got some, I gotsome.
I got some business.
I want to talk to you, but Ijust want to check with you
first.
You know well, I'm here.
Uh, you know what I mean.
They flipped that 50 minutesession.
Uh-huh, in the in the day.
I got, I got two.
I got, I got two things.
I want to talk to you about two.
You know things and you got awhiteboard.
You got a whiteboard.
Let me get.
The first thing is for me, I'mnot gonna lie, it's for me.
(06:44):
And the second thing is for you, it's for you.
You know, it's more for us,it's more for us.
I'm a champion of thisrelationship, dog, dog, dog.
You know why, dog?
Because the 2.6 wasn't always2.6, was it man?
Yeah, wasn't, it was 2.6.
I think that that thing was a2.6.
(07:05):
Wasn't man?
Wasn't always 2.6.
That thing was a 2.3.
Yeah, to be honest, you had towork for that 2.6.
What you were doing was you wasout there, living life.
You was out there, you wasoutside.
You was outside living life.
Living life, taking yourstreets, living life, taking
(07:26):
your shirt off, doing beer pong.
You know, because you won Putmy business out there when the
cops come to bust down the party.
He was the first one to jumpover the fence.
You know why does he feel?
He was out there living life.
You know, when you say you, youmean like the royal you.
I'm talking more specifically,uh, about like the the you, you,
(07:52):
the, the you.
That's, um, that I'm looking atthe you.
Yep, oh yeah, like the man inthe mirror, yeah, well, your
brother had to.
Your brother had to wash yourclothes after a drunken night on
6th Street in Austin.
Oh, okay, because theratchetness got out of hand.
Hold up, hold up, hold up.
I'm talking about the you.
(08:13):
Yeah, yeah, because with thestudents who did do stuff like
that, yes, yeah, right, yep, thestudents who did stuff like
that, uh-huh, yeah, yep, becauseit couldn't be me, because I'm
a cut.
Nope, uh, no, not me, but, but,but your students who did do
(08:34):
that?
The students did do that.
They had the two pointtherapist.
David.
2.3 is a 2.4 man.
Two more things.
Dog, have you ever seen, haveyou ever?
No, no, no, let me dog, hold on, hold on.
No, no, no, let me get this outto you.
No, I have something importantto say and I beg you the time
and space to say it.
I insist, go ahead, bro.
(08:56):
Hey the 3.7s, hey the 3.7s.
The 3.7s, be up in ethics, shook, fraught with anxiety, fraught
with it, fraught theambiguousness of ethics to a 3.8
(09:18):
.
Oh, my goodness, what happensif my shoelace grazes their
ankle when I go to prison?
The 3.8, I'm not hating, I'mnot saying no, I'm, I'm just
saying it's different.
I remember I had, I remember I,I was asked to, and I won't say
(09:40):
lauren's name out loud, but Iwas asked huh to, and I won't
say Lauren's name out loud, butI was asked huh.
She's actually a really, reallygood comedian.
We should have her on the cast,man, I know, man, we should ask
her.
One time I was put in a mocklock therapy session or
something.
Why are you talking to me likeI don't know this.
Yes, I remember this.
No, I'm, you know, just for the, for the, for the cast.
(10:03):
You know, oh, yeah, uh, thepodcast, yeah, yeah, uh.
And yeah, man, the question oflike, hey, man, do you think
these clients see like your gpawritten on your forehead?
Yeah, like nobody, nobody caresif you got like a 3.8 gpa.
Like they don't say like, oh, Iwant, I want this person
(10:24):
because they have a 3.8 smartone.
I want the smart one.
Yeah, you know, like man, thisI would say graduate school is
one of the first times in mywhole life where I realized I'm
like, oh, there's a different,there's a different type of
intelligence.
Yep, you know, like there's adifferent type of intelligence.
It's not just about it's notjust being like book smart, you
(10:46):
know, it's not just being ableto like, remember and
regurgitate information Like, oh, you actually have, there's
actually like an art to this.
You know, you got to be able tomanipulate people.
I mean, talk to people Whoa,yes, like you gotta be able to
manipulate.
I mean, uh, talk to people whoa, yes, yeah, you gotta be able
to use them dry and not givethem any help, but make them
(11:06):
dependent on you so that theycan continue to pay you.
But seriously, dog, like,seriously, I want the therapist,
bro, I want the therapist withthat like yellow hair because
they've been smoking so much.
You know what I mean.
Like I want that like yellowhair because they've been
smoking so much.
You know what I mean.
Like I, like, I want the.
I want papers everywhere.
You know what I mean.
Like I don't, I don't want themto have a iPad, a touch screen.
(11:31):
Yeah, I don't.
I don't want to see a a, a, a,a cure egg in.
No, I want drip dank blackcoffee.
You know I, man, no, I wantthis person, I want, I want the
therapist to to look at me andgo, yeah, yeah, and me and me to
(11:55):
be able to go.
I, I know man, it, just I, Idon't know I can be myself in
here.
Right before, right before thissession or right before our cast
, I had a session and in thatsession that was the exact thing
that happened.
The minute they popped onto thescreen, I saw them, they saw me
(12:16):
and listen, I'm not going tolie, I don't know if this client
listens to the cast or not.
They probably don't but Ilooked them dead in the eyes and
I was like, oh you lookabsolutely ratchet right now the
bags under your eyes speaksvolumes.
Like what in the hell happenedsince the last time we saw each
(12:37):
other, you know, and they werejust themselves just being able
to be like you know, you know,like bruh bruh I know I don't
think people get that man,especially students, but it's
counselor, educators.
I feel like I think theproportion of that myth that
(13:02):
like you have to be a certainway, because you know, like I
worked at a research one beforeI did UMichB and like in there
we would, there would be like apaper application, and I
remember being in some of thosemeetings where we're trying to
decide on the cohorts and it'slike, no, this student's gpa is
(13:22):
so low they're gonna struggle inresearch and statistics.
It's like do we honestly care?
Yeah, honestly like, if thisperson can computate the
standard deviation by hand, yeah, do we care more of this person
can, can can understand to ametaphysical level the other
person's lived experience?
(13:44):
Yeah, which one is moreimportant?
Yeah, that's the stats, thestatistics.
Dad has got to write thesearticles.
Dad has got to write thesearticles.
Thumb action yeah, dad has gotto write these articles.
These articles don't writethemselves.
How quickly can you do this?
Yeah, yeah, we'll put them,we'll put, we'll put the student
(14:04):
15th on the author sheet.
It's just doc, that's just howit is, man.
And so you got students, dog,perfectly good therapist,
perfectly good therapist talkingabout hey, man, I think I need
to publish, to get to the nextlevel.
Like, yeah, why, why are wedoing this to students?
(14:24):
Man, uh-huh, you know, and tobe fair, listeners, we were
published by the time.
We got to be fair, to be fair,but it, but we stumbled upon
that.
It wasn't like we were you knowwhat I mean like, I mean, well,
actually we were, because ourgpa was terrible.
We, we were like, uh, there'sno way in hell we're gonna get
(14:52):
accepted into graduate schoolunless we're published.
So, yeah, we better.
Yeah, listen, if you, if yougot a 1.7 and it's your freshman
year and you're trying to be atherapist, go ahead on and get
going on, go ahead on, go aheadon, go ahead on, go ahead on,
yeah, cause you're trying to 1.4, but 20 publications, we're
good for them, Go ahead, letthem, let them on in, let them
(16:02):
all in, man, thank you.
So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so,so, so, so, so, so, so, yeah,
man, yeah, hey, but, but, but,hey, but, real, real quick, real
(16:23):
quick.
This I think like theundercurrent of our conversation
.
Man is about, um, like, like,uh, just working as a faculty,
right, being like real educators, right, like real, true
educators, versus being almostlike a concierge service.
(16:47):
You know to where you're like,because I saw something on
social media with this professorfrom Harvard who was saying
that, like you know, he puts ina syllabi like hey, you know,
check out.
You know, he puts in a syllabilike hey, you know, check out,
uh, you're gonna need thisarticle for this, for this paper
, you know.
And he says, like you know,it's austin and austin 1987, you
(17:07):
know, and and the students comein class and they're like hey,
is the, is that paper going tobe provided in the course?
Shell, you know, and theprofessor's like no, no, it's
Austin and Austin 1987.
Go and find the paper, becausesometimes, man, when you do
(17:29):
stuff like that, you don't justfind Austin and Austin 1987.
You find Brumford and Brumford1992.
You found Yellow and Yellow.
You read that reference lesson.
You read the reference Brumford, you know, like 1992, you know,
you found yellow and yellow.
Yep, you read the reference andso like.
So so it just it justaccumulates a lot more knowledge
if I don't help you find it.
But students nowadays, studentsnowadays are more more inclined
(17:58):
to want that type of work donefor them.
For sure, you know, like towant that to like make sure that
, like, everything is likeorganized and tied up in a cute
little bow, because thatambiguity is something that's
like really hard for has like ayou know, 2.5, 2.6 GPA like us.
(18:23):
Man, I'm not saying nothingabout the camera, shit, I'm not
even.
Are you serious?
Nah, like, are you serious?
It's not that I'm not lookingat it, I'm looking at it.
I'm keeping up with the grades,I go through all the files, I
go through all of I'm, I'm a 2.4gpa student is asking material
(18:47):
specific questions.
Right, yeah, a 4.0 3.8 student.
They're asking materialspecific questions as well as
like organizational questionsabout, like, how the course is
working.
You know, like, like, like, uh,are you gonna post this?
(19:07):
Are you gonna post a powerpointonline?
Post a powerpoint online.
Are you gonna go back and lookat this powerpoint while you're
working a full-time job andtaking care of kids?
Like, no man take really goodnotes while you're in class so
you can reference the notes.
You really want me to post thispowerpoint online?
Okay, listen, my powerpoint hasit's a three-hour lecture and I
(19:29):
got eight slides with fivepictures.
Like it's not a lot on thispowerpoint, you know, but like
that's the.
I feel like that's that's the.
I feel like that's the.
That's the difference.
I feel like that's like the,the dynamic that sometimes I see
in the classroom where you havesome students, it feels like it
(19:50):
comes from a place of anxiety.
Yeah, yeah, when I worked atTulane University, dog, I was on
this committee and and thecommittee was, like, you know
what the name of the committeewas?
It was the hospitalitycommittee, right, and like our
job.
Our job was to make sure that,like, our students felt like
(20:12):
they were being like, taken careof.
Yeah, I'm on that committee.
I'm on that committee for myuniversity.
Yeah, listen, man, I'm all forthat, right, because, like,
sometimes there has to be alegitimate like person to person
.
Hey, my name's Dr Austin.
I'm here to help.
What do you need, you know?
But, man, some, sometimes,especially like in graduate
(20:33):
school, I think sometimesstudents can go a little like
overboard with, like the thingsthat they require to be like
given to them right throughouttheir like education.
Like, I need you to provide mewith direction on.
Like hey, I may go over theword count.
Are you gonna mark off for me?
(20:54):
You know like.
Are you gonna mark off?
Yeah, you know like.
Uh, when we're doing thegenogram, does it need to be
like immediate family?
You know, if you give them theanswer of like, I don't know.
Like, whatever you want it tobe, you know Whatever you want
it to be, this assignment is notabout immediate family.
(21:16):
It's about, like you actuallyexperiencing the process of
discovery of your family.
But that's the thing I feellike sometimes is missed.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, yeah, like dog, when wewere struggling, right, dog, and
we were in class and we get thesyllabon assignment, like, one
of the first questions we wouldask is, like what does the
professor actually want?
(21:37):
Mm-hmm, like, what are they notsaying they want?
Yeah, like, why are we doingthis assignment here?
Because we're looking from aplace of like safety.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
We're not looking from a placeof achievement.
Oh my god, dog, that's, youknow, that's, that's so.
That is so spot on, man, we'renot.
(21:58):
We're not looking like how canI do my best?
No, we're looking for, like,how can I achieve the highest
grades?
Yep, we're not.
We're not saying that.
How can I not get hurt, youknow?
Okay, so this professor wantsme to experience my family.
So, as, as long as what I dogives the professor what they
need, then I'm gonna do that andI'm not gonna worry about you
(22:22):
know, like, yep, am I doing itcorrectly or this or that?
You know what I mean?
The thing that's the mostfrustrating.
You know what we do?
No, dog, didn't you know whatwe do, dog, that we go and meet
with that faculty and talk tothem, yep, and see how they are.
Yep, you know, and get a goodfeeling for, like, are they a
stickler, are they pretty chill?
Are they all right?
Yep, okay, once I get a goodfeeling of that, then great, I
(22:46):
don't need to ask you a singlething.
You know why?
Because the last you'll neverhear from you, the last you even
know I'm here and I can justturn in these assignments and I
can just do my best and do whatI think you want me to do and
get about this class.
You know, and it wasn't until,it wasn't until, like, it wasn't
(23:07):
until graduate school that wewere like, okay, I actually want
to learn this stuff.
Yeah, you know, let me not justlike get a part of this class.
Yep, you know, but but thething about the thing about
graduate school is that, likeman, if you can genuinely learn
the material and you canincorporate the material into
like the way that you they dothe work, then like you're gonna
(23:29):
pass the class, you're gonnapass the class, you're gonna
pass, then, like you're, you'regoing to pass the class, you're
going to pass the class, you'regoing to pass the class.
And if you can, and if you canshow that, if you can show, you
can show it.
You know what I mean.
If you can show, like, hey,look, I'm in this theories class
.
We learned all these theories.
They picked three to conceptual.
Let me go hard on this stuff,you know, because I know you
(23:50):
don't want me to just storytell.
Yeah, I know you don't want meto just storytell.
You want to know can Iunderstand life through the
prism of these theories?
That's what I'm going to giveyou.
You said five pages, doc.
I'm writing four and a halfpages, like it's on the fifth
page.
I am not going over five pages.
(24:10):
Yeah, like it's on the fifthpage.
I am not going over five pages.
Yeah, I won't have to ask aquestion, like if it's just two
guys, but that's.
But that's the thing.
Five pages, that's the thing.
Listen, the five pages is asuggestion.
I would really hope that youwould stay within the five pages
because it makes it easier forme to get through all of these
papers and give you really goodfeedback.
If you go overboard, I'm notgoing to be pissed overboard,
(24:31):
I'm not gonna be pissed like.
I'm gonna be like, I'm notgonna be pissed, but what I will
be like, what I will bethinking, is like, how come you
couldn't do five pages?
Okay, like, what about thisassignment made you feel like it
was.
You were like incapable ofkeeping it within the boundaries
of the site.
You know and like and whereelse, where else in life, where
(24:53):
else in life are you gonna like,push these boundaries?
You know, like, like now, now Ihave to deal with it, now I
have to deal with it.
So now I got through all yourthroughout, your, your tenure
here in this program.
Now I'm gonna have to watch,you know, just see if you're
gonna know what you know.
And it eventually happens.
You're in session.
(25:14):
It's not for that student toget out of session because we
need that room, yeah, and thenyou go over 10 minutes, just
like you did in the paper.
It's like you did in the paper.
It's it's like come on, man,now that 2.5 student 10 minutes
left in the session.
Hey, we got 10 minutes left.
That 2.5 student may only write4 pages.
(25:34):
Because they're like, this isgood enough and I'll take the
points.
I'll take the points off if Idon't reach the 5 pages.
And then you read it and it isgreat, it's succinct, it's great
.
This could be, this could be ourbiases, right, because, you
know, because we were failures.
(25:55):
Yeah, we were absolutely,without question, horrible
students, without question, andnot to throw us in another
tangent dog, but not because wedidn't try, and I know we talked
about this on the podcast a lotdog, but it's just salient man,
that's just, hey, real quick.
Though I do think that, likefor like the 3.8 and the 3.9 and
(26:19):
the 4.0, and even like the 4.1and 4.2, I think that's a fair
amount of safety for them too,you know, like, I think, I think
getting that high of a GPA issafety for them too, For sure,
for sure, I've never met a reallife 3.9 or a 3.4, 4.0, or a
real life.
We don't stay friends.
(26:39):
We don't stay friends.
We got some great students, man, great students who learn a
lesson that everybody elselearns.
You know that, like chill, justchill, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Else learns, you know that,like chill, yep, just chill,
(27:00):
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, man, yeah, yeah, anyway,
all right, man, you got anythingelse to add?
Man, I felt like we just kindof like, we just kind of led
into these, like you know, 3.8,3.9ers.
Don't let it lead into 3.8.
Y'all fine, bruh, y'all fine,it's okay.
It's okay, you probably can'ttherapy yourself out of a brown
paper bag, but it's fine.
(27:20):
You got a 3.8 and you lookstellar.
You made it into Chi, sigma,iota, and you are pressed for
time.
You are a big man on campus.
No, I think I'm more upset about, I think I'm more upset about
counselor educators who, like,put such a big emphasis on GPA,
(27:42):
yeah, and use the GPA as anindicator of, like, student
success, how well a student isgoing to be as a clinician, yeah
, where I don't think thatcorrelation or coefficient is
high enough for us.
All right, let me, let me, youknow, that's my, you know, when
you start talking aboutcoefficients, that's my cue to
end the cast.
I think it's probably a strongrelationship.
It's been great, but no, hey,it's been great.
Guys, I don't want to be.
(28:03):
Let me go ahead and spare you,because you can start talking
about uh, z scores and t scoresand q scores and j scores.
I just don't think.
I just, you know, I don't wantto, I just, yeah, I don't think
you need to hear about xyz testsand q tests and t tests and r
tests and I just don't think, Ijust don't know, I just don't
know, man, I don't know.
(28:24):
Man, I don't know.
But what I do know I.
But I do know that you get abusted can of biscuits.
Person with a life that's adumpster fire, you can whip them
up into Carl Rogers easily.
Somebody that has got a habit.
I don't even know what thehabit is.
It's a habit.
You don't have to be anaddiction, it's a habit.
(28:46):
They whittle too much.
They just whittle too much.
They like to wear mittens insession.
Yeah, they get it.
They just whittle too much.
They like to wear mittens insession.
Yeah, they get it.
They get it, they get it.
I could make that person atherapist Easy.
They got a Scrabble habit or acrossword puzzle habit.
They got a Wurdle Wurdle habit.
(29:07):
Yeah, send them, send them tome, send them to Jude's program.
Yeah, over here in Louisiana wedo things a little different.
We don't like habits, we justwant you to be a regular person.
And I know some of y'all arelistening to this saying, well,
what does regular mean?
You know what regular means?
Try to act all liberal.
You know what regular meansShit.
(29:29):
You know what a regular is Shit.
Everyone's their own littlestuff.
Okay, but there's one person inthe cohort when everybody in the
cohort is like, yeah, tim'sjust a little different, you
know.
Yeah, I saw him holding hisfinger over an open flame the
(29:55):
other day.
I, you know, uh, yeah, man, timasks everybody to take their
shoes off before they get in thegroup.
I, you know, everybody outthere, barefoot grouping out
there, you know.
Anyway, let me go before mykids barge in.
All right, man, hey, man, hey,we'll see y'all next week.
(30:16):
I didn't even do an intro tothis episode, I didn't even like
.
There's no like.
Hey, welcome to the cash.
Y'all, welcome back.
You know, this week we'retalking about this, all right,
hey, next week, though, I dowant to share a little bit about
the golf tournament that uhcause.
Kyra is going to be in a golftournament tomorrow.
So, oh yeah, I forgot to wearmy cause.
I won that golf tournament onFriday.
(30:36):
I forgot to wear my medal.
Oh man, yeah, all right.
Well, anyway, I will see y'allif we're still doing this.
Thank you,
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