March 16, 2025 • 60 mins
Therapy isn't about perfection—it's about practice. Two seasoned counselor educators reunite to tackle one of the most profound challenges facing new therapists: finding authenticity in clinical work.
Breaking through the idealized image of the flawless therapist, we explore why students often hide behind passive, non-directive approaches rather than bringing their genuine selves into the therapy room. The conversation reveals how our own unmet relational needs inevitably emerge during sessions, creating opportunities for growth if we're willing to examine them honestly.
"You can't go into therapy perfect. You can't go into it healed. You can't go into it ready," we acknowledge, highlighting the transformative power of simply showing up and practicing the art of human connection. Through humorous anecdotes about everything from backyard trampolines to our days as young soccer players navigating cultural differences, we demonstrate the value of bringing your full, imperfect self to professional relationships.
The discussion particularly resonates for therapists approaching that crucial 700-hour mark, when confidence begins to emerge and the ability to confront unhealthy patterns becomes possible. We challenge the "helpfulness conundrum" that leads new therapists to judge sessions as "good" or "bad" based solely on immediate outcomes rather than relational depth.
Whether you're a counseling student terrified of making mistakes or a seasoned clinician looking to reconnect with your authentic voice, this candid conversation offers permission to practice, fail, repair, and grow—the true heart of therapeutic work.
If you have any questions about any counseling related topics or would like the twins to share their thoughts about a particular counseling case - reach out with the info below:
https://thetwintherapists.com/
Instagram: thetwintherapists
Contact: thetwintherapists@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Where are your bodyguards?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let me see.
Let me see.
Okay, now we're talking, nowwe're talking.
Yeah, now I can see you.
Yeah, you got me, you got me.
(00:38):
Yeah, what you trying to talkabout today like that, bro, I
got some stuff, man, but yeah,well, you know, I just kind of
want to check in.
The last time we did this waswho?
Uh, 97, 90, 96, 97.
Uh, the last time we did this,a lot of our listeners weren't
(00:59):
even born yet, you know.
So, come on, come on, yeah,it's yeah, you.
You call me and told me thatthe streets were talking.
The streets were were talking.
Yeah, man, one of my studentsburst into my room with all
kinds of excitement, talkingabout hey, hey, hey, hey,
where's the podcast at?
Hold on, let me turn myheadphones down, bro, because
you're screaming at me right now.
Oh, my bad, my bad, big dog.
(01:20):
You're screaming, oh my bad,like, hey, look at your levels,
man, your level's all in the red.
Yeah, I'm just excited to behere, big dog.
I'm just excited to be here,man, I miss talking to you.
What kind of Crayola shirt yougot on, like that, bro.
Yeah, bro, this is not asponsorship, but it's a shirt
(01:42):
brought to you.
This episode is brought to youby One Bone, wow, no, no, no,
I've been there.
To be honest, man, the faculty,well, the dress code at UL is a
little laxed.
You know In a good way, oh, ina good way, in a good way, man,
(02:05):
but you know how Ied.
You know In a good way, oh, ina good way, in a good way, man,
but you know how I mean.
You know how I come, you know,yeah, but y'all, public school
though, yeah, you know how Icome through.
Yeah, they lucky if they don'tsee me in a three-piece suit.
So it's been a little weird.
I've been having to, like, youknow, like, really do some like
(02:27):
re-engineering of what my, yeah,what my, because, listen, man,
if I walked in there in a suitjacket, they'd be like what
funeral are you going to?
Who died?
Who died?
What time does it start?
Where's the repass?
Where's the rep?
Yeah, man.
So I don't know, bro, I've beengetting a lot of stuff, a lot
(02:48):
of stuff online, so you know,but that's neither here or there
.
Man, hey, man, we back, we back,man, yeah, you know, it's bad
when students start coming intoyour office and they're looking
at you like okay, man, hey, comeon podcast ideals.
Yeah, like, okay, man, come uppodcast ideals.
Yeah, hey, man, hey, I don'tknow if you ever thought about
yeah, I don't know if you guysare still together, like, I
(03:12):
don't know if y'all still likeeach other, but maybe if y'all
ever get to the cast again, youcould you know.
Nah, man, look, look, look,jesus, let's stop kidding
ourselves.
Man, look, we don't have thetime for a weekly podcast.
Oh, we have the time.
Oh, no, yeah, we have the time.
It's you, jude, it's you.
We don't have the time.
No, it's you.
Now listen, if we wanted to meetless with students and be a
(03:35):
little more absent in ourprogram, I can't do that.
Sure, I can't do that, man,that one student in question
keeps bothering me.
Man, that one student inquestion keeps bothering me.
She knows who she is.
I have to sit behind her bighead in our internship class.
I can't even see the videoprojected on the board.
It's bad, that's funny, bro.
(03:56):
Nah, man, nah.
But anyway, I'm excited to behere, man, so why'd you call me
up here?
What do you want?
Oh, what do you want?
What do you want?
Well, you know, I just figured.
How have you been?
How have you been, man?
How's the semester going?
The semester, yeah, it's flyingby, it is right.
Yeah, man, we already on springbreak, it's flying by dog.
(04:18):
I was talking to some of mystudents the other day, man,
like we only have like six weeksleft.
Oh, yeah, like seven weeks left, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm teaching
a clinical class, so I gotta do, I gotta do ccs's, I gotta do
midterm stuff.
Yeah, like I didn't even it'slike midterm, it's like the
middle of the semester, justkind of like jumped up behind
(04:41):
some bushes man and and startedyou and flashed you or something
.
You know, um, you know it's,it's, it's, yeah, it's crazy.
But you know, we, me and meganso we had an ultrasound, uh,
about a week and a half ago and,uh, baby is doing great.
So, if any, if you're newlistener, we're having me and my
(05:01):
wife, we're having our fourthkid, and when I say we, I mean
she is.
I'm just gonna be kind of likehanging out, um, as you do.
Yeah, you know just, uh, it's,it's baby number four.
So you don't really get involveduntil what they like six, seven
years old, oh, that's reallywhen you, that's really me
personally, you personally, no,no, no.
(05:24):
If they have any inkling ofbeing an athlete, then I step in
.
Oh, that's when you turn it on.
Yeah, that's when I step in.
Yeah, that's when daddy lovesyou, daddy loves you and daddy
loves you, daddy's here, youknow.
But if you know, if our kidshas the unfortunate you know,
like not the unfortunate narpgene, then yeah, I can't.
(05:46):
Um, so you just throw a ball atthem, you put some cones out
right outside of that bed to seeif they can.
No, I know, I drive my car at.
I mean, if they can dodge, ifthe plyometrics is good, that's
like spartan.
Yeah, if the shuffle skills isshuffling, then then I know I
got something I like to put mykids.
We call it real danger training.
(06:07):
Hold on, man, hold on hold onBoop, boop, boop.
Let me call them people, bro.
Oh, that's how your phone sound.
What you got?
An iPhone 6?
.
You still got the home buttonon your phone.
It's rotary.
It's rotary, jesus Christ, boop, you know, you know how it is.
Hey, man, hey, I miss landlines.
(06:29):
I miss landlines.
Yeah, you miss landlines.
I really do, I really do dogLike, honestly, man, honestly, I
wish that I could turn my.
I mean, it's not that I can'tdo this, brett, but like turn my
cell phone off when I get homeand just have the landline.
(06:52):
Yeah, so only people who likereally know, well, yeah, because
.
So here's the thing, brett, andI know people, listen, man,
listen, man, listen.
We watched the Cosby Show,listen.
My kids don't know we got a 1-9in the front of our birth year.
My kids don't know when you gotto put in the year of when you
(07:16):
were born on a little onlinething.
You scroll it.
It's like the price is right,nah, man.
So Theo, yeah, it's like theprice is right in this, you?
No, I remember so.
So, uh, so so, theo, you know,in the episode, one of the
episodes, theo met this girl atthis art show and she called.
She called him at the house, sothe whole family was in the
(07:36):
living room I'm watching it withkian and valent, you know and
the phone rings and theo picksup the phone and he goes you
know Dr Huxtable's residence andKeenan goes what's he doing?
And I was like, oh, he'sanswering the phone.
You know, back in the day, likewhen daddy was a kid, they had a
house phone and so when youanswered it you had to say you
(07:57):
know Austin residence.
You had to say something likethat I want to get a landline
just for them to learn how totalk to people.
Man, you got to.
How to talk to people.
It's a hidden skill.
It's a hidden skill.
It's a skill that it's a hiddenskill.
I know dog, like you know.
I mean now we have front officepeople that the COC at our
(08:19):
community clinic, you know, thatcalls and you know and answers
clients and all of that stuff.
But back in the day we did allthat you know, and you had to
call them.
You had to cold call somebodyand be like hey, my name's Jude,
I work for the Community LifeCenter.
I saw that you asked about ifwe could see people.
(08:39):
Well, we got an opening.
Do you want to set up a time?
Yeah, well, we got an opening,you know.
Do you want to set up a time?
Yeah, you know, and god forbidthe.
You know the voicemail and youuh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh.
Hi, my name is because youweren't prepared for you know, I
(09:02):
want my kids to know how to doall of that stuff, right?
Well, hey, we got in our, inour clinic at ul.
We got, you've got studentsanswer the phone, man, we got
like, yeah, us too, us too.
But I just, you know, sometimesI'll be listening to them, I'll
be listening to them freak outwhen it's their first time
answering the phone.
Yeah, I'll pick it up, hello,hello, look at that, jump the
(09:25):
shoulders, jump up, anyway, man,anyway, anyway, cool man.
So what were you saying aboutyour, uh, your fourth kid?
Yeah, no, no, yeah, man, wewent, we had an ultrasound.
Everything was good, healthy,um, and you know the, the uh,
megan's um due date is the 27thright of April.
Oh, okay, and that's like thelast day of the semester, you
(09:50):
know.
So, yeah, I'm just, you know,like just hanging out, man, just
like just hanging out, bro,we've been lucky man, we've been
lucky.
We have kids on Fridays.
Okay, kids on Fridays.
Get that weekend.
For us it's usually during abreak.
For our first it was Christmasbreak, for our second it was
(10:13):
Mardi Gras break, for our thirdit was fall break.
This one's going to be in thesemester break, it's going to be
the summer break.
We timing that way.
Nah, bro, it's been good, goodman, since, since we talked dog,
oh, I gotta tell you something,man, like, uh, we just got a
text message from uh cairo'scoach.
(10:35):
Right, yeah, I was in in uh in2016s, right, uh-huh.
So he has a tournament thisweekend where he has to play two
games, and he just got asked toplay on the 2015 team 25.
So it's a year up, you know.
So he's gonna be a guest playeron one of the older, one of the
(10:55):
older kids teams, you know, andso that means he's gonna play
four games this weekend.
Hey, remember when that happenedto us, that's when we got
called up to play with thestrikers?
Yeah, it was, it was.
It was an all-white team, youknow, it took me and you were
probably hey, remember when thathappened to us?
That's when we got called up toplay with the Strikers.
It was an all-white team andyou were probably the only black
kids in this team since thehistory of it, and so we didn't
know what to do.
And so we were like, okay, dog,we got to look, let's just dive
(11:17):
into the culture, man, let'sjust dive into the culture.
What did they say?
What did the whites say?
What did they?
We started watching uh x games.
We said, okay, hey, man, we gotto try to use totally and
radical uh as many times aspossible, man.
And so we're in the huddle, meand you is sitting across from
each other stretching, and someyou know kid will say like hey,
(11:40):
and just so, just so y'all know,hey, louisiana, louisiana,
white people, different, I thinkthey're different.
They're different as you'reprobably seeing on social media.
They're different, you know,and so you know they're talking
to me and you look at each otherout of the side of an eye, like
you know, and I sneak in alittle like yeah, man, that's
totally awesome.
And then we look at each otherbecause the team we played for
(12:08):
had black kids, mexican kids, sowe got called up to play for
the strikers.
It was like you gotta be on time, you gotta have the right
uniform.
When coach says yeah, whencoach says be that 30 minutes
before the game, he means bethere 30 minutes or you ain't
playing.
You ain't playing.
Yeah, man, yeah bro, that'scool man.
(12:31):
So you got four games thisweekend.
I saw him on the team's socialmedia page, man, they're
highlighting him.
It seems like he's got a starrising man.
Oh, chip off the old block, man,chip off the old block.
I don't know about that.
Chip off the old block he mightbe surpassing, he may have
(12:52):
already.
Yeah, chip off the old block.
Anyway, man, enough about you,man, so, yeah, I'm doing good,
kid's doing good, all of thatstuff, bro, we just built a
trampoline, you know, oh, yeah,I'm doing good, kids doing good,
all of that stuff, bro, we justbuilt a trampoline.
You know, like we, oh, y'allgot one.
Yeah, we put it together me andlindsay was out there, bro, hey
(13:13):
man, I did it by myself.
Trampolines, those are bymyself.
Huh, I did it by myself.
Hey, man, it's not my as a look, whatever's going on between
you and megan is none of mybusiness.
It sounds like you don't havethe support you need, you know,
but that's not, that's not aconversation for here at genius.
Okay, you don't have someboundaries, you know some
boundaries.
You know how hard it was to getthat one spring, that's all the
(13:34):
way.
I couldn't not, man, I couldn'tdo it by myself, bro, it didn't
want myself.
I think I sent you a picture ofthis man with all the
neighborhood kids.
Oh, you did, you know, becauseit's all spring.
I don't't know if I did, bro,we had about 10, 11 kids in our
yard, man, yeah, that's whatthey do, bro, sitting there
asking when is the trampolinegoing to be done?
Yeah, what Megan calls them arelittle liabilities.
(13:55):
What happens if somebody breakstheir arm in your yard?
Do you have the courage youneed?
I do have the courage.
I called my insurance adjusterthe other day because all these
kids, I was like, hey, Iliterally just talked to mine at
five, 15 today, yeah, hey, ifsomething happens, what do I do
(14:15):
first?
No, when you get older, you,you, you call your insurance
broker and be like hey, jeremy,listen, we need to do something
about these trees because I'mafraid of a name storm that's
going to come our way.
Mine's name is justin.
Bro, hey, nicest dude in theworld, bro, nice man, nicest
(14:36):
dude in the world.
Hey, look, I feel better takencare of by him than I do.
Some doctors like I may callthem and ask medical questions.
Hey, listen, anyway, real quickhe said, yeah, you might need
to do something about thosetrees.
I called somebody that minute.
The dude came right.
An hour later he was.
I was like how much are yougoing to charge for your first
(14:57):
like cut?
You know?
So he told me.
I was like okay, so can youcome every other week?
He's like yeah.
I was like do you do?
Do you do trees?
He was like, yeah, I was likemy man.
My man I called Jeremy.
Hey, just want to let you know,I took care of it.
Yeah, we going steady now.
Yeah, me and him, you and him,yeah, we going steady.
Oh, that's what's going on.
That's why you're fixing thetrampoline by yourself for me in
(15:20):
ways that you know.
No, I thought so.
Jeremy didn't help either.
Man, I'm starting to think it'syou If she didn't help.
Jeremy didn't help.
Jeremy was extremely helpful.
Don't talk about my insuranceadjuster like that, man.
Don't talk about my broker,don't?
Anyway, anyway.
(15:42):
So here's what I wanted to talkto you about, man.
All right, bro, yeah, lay it onme, lay it on me GT.
I'm excited.
So I've been doing supervision.
I've been doing supervision forthe state.
You know LPC, lmft, supervision.
Holler at your boy.
You know prices are fair.
That's the name of his LLC.
(16:03):
Holler at your boy.
Ooh, oh, that would have been agood name.
Dog, that would have been agood.
Holla at your boy.
Counseling consultant oh, man,no, I just I went with pretty
good counseling.
Ah, man, holla at your boy.
That should have been numbertwo.
You know what?
I'm gonna start another one,man, anyway, anyway.
(16:25):
And so in Supervision, man, wewere talking about just how much
of your experience and I knowthis sounds dumb, right, it
sounds like, yes, obviously, butjust how much of your
experience comes from just doingtherapy, yeah Right, just
(16:51):
sitting in front of clients dayin, day out, taking cuts, making
mistakes.
Yeah, you know, I know some ofour listeners, you know, are
like, you know, I don't know ifI'm ever going to get it, you
know.
You know, maybe I'll never getthis, you know I suck, I'm not
as good as so-and-so.
You know, we've got a lot ofstudents, you know, and I'm
(17:13):
talking mainly about yourstudents, you know, because I
know do that.
Well, I just know your program,I think we're getting away from
the point.
I think we're getting away fromthe point, cause your program is
a little light in the uh,clinical, you know, like, uh, um
, training, aggression, huh,yeah, okay, yeah, that too,
(17:35):
uh-huh, I would say we're more,we're more of a four, four, two
type of uh, yeah, we're a four,five, one, yeah, yeah, yeah,
with a false nine, yeah, we'remore, four, two, yeah, and you
know, so we were just talkingabout, like, how so many people
are just so many counselors arejust scared of just getting out
(17:59):
there.
You know, like they think theyhave to be at a place in order
to do this work.
You know, yeah, yeah, you know,like, how many students do you
feel like you meet with that sayI'm not ready for this?
You know, like I'm not readyfor clinical work?
No, I think I meet with.
(18:20):
I think no student is ready forclinical work.
I think the amount of time thatwe give them is so short before
they actually go into clinicalwork to where, you know and it
doesn't I'm just talking aboutevery, every program in general
it's so short to where, like,there's no way you can be, like,
truly ready.
(18:41):
You know, yeah, um, but I dofeel like like students have
this ideal of who they should be, which is like non-directive,
um, almost passive.
You know Passive, yeah, andalso like not genuinely present
in session.
You know so, just like kind oflike ta-ta-ing them.
(19:04):
You know, like you know what'syour goals and like let's, you
know like just the fact that youcame into session means so much
to me.
That type of stuff you know,yeah, yeah, yeah, what, you know
what, and I think I think, Ithink what students lack is that
(19:24):
like, um, that permission fromsome professors to like, hey,
man, go in there and be yourselfand just like and see if that
works for you.
But so here's what we weretalking about.
Right, we were talking abouthow like they're like it's, it's
(19:45):
gonna be ugly.
You know it's not gonna bepretty.
Yeah, you know like it's notgonna be professional, it's not
gonna be organized's going to bea dumpster fire.
But what do you mean by thatLike it's going to be a dumpster
fire.
It's not going to be pretty.
I mean like you're going to betrying techniques and
interventions.
You're going to be trying tolisten and not capture the real
(20:07):
feeling words You're going to.
You know you're going to haveclients that you're holding back
because you didn't lay down agood structure for the process.
You know like you know what Imean.
Then you'll, every now and then, have a home run session when
you're like that's how I want tofeel.
You know like that's it, youknow.
And so we were talking about how, like sometimes and she didn't
(20:28):
know this, you know I'm talkingabout jessica, by the way um, it
was like one of my favoritepeople and she's she's a
supervisee of mine, you know,and she, we were talking about
how, like, a lot of that stuffcould be worked out, like the
insecurities, the oh, thetransference session in session,
(20:48):
just just by, just by doing it.
You know, let me finish thisthought, let me finish this
thought.
And then I mean, like sure, getsome therapy, do EMDR, yeah, do
that stuff.
Yeah, you know.
But like, listen, and I mean Idon't want to sound like I am
(21:10):
trivializing people's work, youknow, but I do feel like, doc,
sometimes you don't need all ofthat stuff, you just need a good
supervisor and you just needpractice.
Oh, yeah, for sure, you justneed hours under your belt.
But I think that's the thing inthere.
A good supervisor, you know,like a good easier, a good
(21:34):
supervisor will will.
This is the thing.
If what I what?
What I see is that, like man,if it's not, if whatever's going
on with you is not worked outright, then it's, it's going to
be worked on in session.
So I had a supervisee the otherday who, during internship, it
(21:58):
just kind of came out that like,oh, the way that you're
relating to your client is theway that you relate to other
people outside of the room.
So, like what's the fundamentalthings that you need from your
client and I forget the wordsthat they use, but it was.
It was like oh, I need this andI need that, you know.
And it's like and do you alsoneed that in your, your, your
(22:20):
relationships now?
And he's like.
He's like yeah, yeah, it'sclassic.
Yeah, and it's a class, it's aclassic thing, you know.
But, man, when you're like, whenyou're in session and you're
just like doing therapy and youdon't know why you feel so angry
or frustrated or whatever, youknow, like that anger and that
frustration is usually comingout because you're not getting
(22:41):
your needs met in session.
Right, and your needs is likethe relationship to feel more
responsible, or the client tofeel more, the client to take
more responsibility in arelationship, or for the for the
for the relationship to beequal.
You know, or you know, yeah,bro, yeah, whatever, yeah, dogs
and and honestly, that was kindof the subtext of our
(23:03):
conversation, you know, or evenlike the next, the next point
you know was like you have thesethings, that that that go on in
session, right, like theseneeds, these unmet needs, these
frustrations with clients, theselittle annoyances you know what
I mean Like confusion, whatever, you know, sometimes not linked
(23:40):
to some deep dark.
You know like, uh, you know,yeah, yeah, unhealthy.
You know depravity, yeah, thatneeds to be sussed out, cleansed
, pressure washed with.
You know some, some, some sixweek, you know, ayahuasca,
silent retreat, you know what Imean.
Like sometimes you just need togo to the next session, yeah,
(24:00):
yeah, you know.
And then the next session afterthat.
Well, you know and I'm notsaying, I'm not saying power
through right, I'm saying like,have some awareness of it, be
curious about it, try to figureit out in the next session, go
to supervision.
But also like, go to the nextsession and and practice, no,
but I, I do think that somestudents get lost in that I need
(24:23):
to be helpful, uh, uh,conundrum, you know, and that
that need, that that aggressiveneed to feel helpful in session,
completely like shadows.
It completely puts into shadow,like what's actually happening
(24:43):
in session for the student, youknow, or for the clinician.
So, instead of looking at asession and like saying I'm
feeling this way in session andbecause I'm feeling this way,
it's probably because I havethis need that's not getting met
by this client and this needthat's not getting met by this
(25:04):
client.
It's a real and true thing thatexists within our relationship
and maybe, if I feel this way,other people may feel this way.
Maybe, if I feel this way,other people may feel this way.
Let me help the client to bemore aware of what our
relationship feels like to me.
You know, like, instead ofdoing that, they go to, oh, I
(25:26):
need to be helpful, like I gotto be helpful.
So what I'm saying is you gotsome students who say I want to
be helpful and if they don'tfeel helpful in a session, then
it's a a bad session.
So then they move on to thenext session and they try to be
helpful and maybe they arehelpful, so that's a good
session.
So you got bad and goodsessions with no real
exploration of, like, what'sgoing on.
(25:48):
So they don't, they don't, theydon't get that, they don't get
that session experience becausetheir relationships, their
relationship to the therapeuticrelationship, is hollow.
Thank you, I do feel likethere's some Like the, the work
(27:07):
in between the sessions.
It's where it's at.
You know, okay, yeah, yeah,yeah, right, but listen.
You know, okay, yeah, right,but but listen, I don't mean
that.
Like, there needs to be thislike big, deep soul search.
Yeah, you know, for some peopleit can be that you know what I
mean.
I guess what I'm saying issometimes you have to put
(27:28):
therapy where it needs to beright.
Do you get what I'm saying?
Here's what I mean.
Here's the thing that I feellike sounds kind of like I don't
know how it sounds, bro Is thatsometimes some of your sessions
are just practice.
(27:51):
Yeah, man, now listen, I knowthere's a real human being
sitting in front of you.
Yeah, you know who needs thingsand you got to develop a
treatment plan and all otherstuff.
But, dog, sometimes you got togo into a session and go.
I'm going to practice therapy.
(28:12):
Like it's not called privatepractice for nothing, it's not
called practicum for nothing.
Nuggets, nuggets.
You know what I mean, nuggets.
But seriously, dog, like youhave to put that dog's also
dropping dimes.
I'm just saying you just gottaput it in the right place.
(28:36):
I'm also hitting that car, whoa.
But you, but you know what Imean.
Dog, like, like you just haveto see it like and dog.
And honestly, I think the morethat I do as me practicing to
(28:56):
try to have like I'm justpracticing at having a good
relationship with people, I'mjust practicing honesty.
I'm practicing confrontation.
You know, I could sit in asession and go dang.
I lost it.
That was the moment I shouldhave said and you're acting just
like your dad.
Boom, you know what I mean.
(29:18):
Take that, take that, take that, take that.
And another thing is that ifyou're acting like your dad,
then I feel like your kid, andyou know what it sucks.
Yeah, boom, I missed it.
I missed it.
But you know what?
I got another hour.
Yeah, you know, I got anotherhour.
I got another hour.
(29:38):
And also there's thepotentiality of seeing this
client next week.
Maybe I got next week, you know.
Well, maybe I can practice whatrepairing a relationship looks
like.
Yeah, dog, like every singlething, you know it's like that.
I just feel like a lot ofpeople make it life or death.
Oh yeah, I was just about to saythat I don't think our students
(30:01):
, I don't think any student well, I'm not going to say any
student, but I don't think moststudents have that capacity to
not see this as practice.
Like you know, we build them upand say like hey, build them up
, we do.
If you brush a client's leg,you will go to the clink, clink,
(30:24):
let me find out.
I already have the nine and theone pressed.
Let me find out.
You ain't doing them.
Clinical notes Let me find out.
Did you overshare?
Oh look, I'm gonna need yourstudent ID right now.
(30:46):
I need your student ID.
Give it to me.
Did you just give a directive insession?
Excuse me, are you beingdirective, are you?
I told you to come in sessionbutt naked so you don't give
(31:12):
your clients any direction.
What?
No, I'm talking.
Oh, it must be a you out thing.
Yeah, that's what we do.
Yeah, you're already accreditedman.
Now y'all could be your truefreak self.
We put our students, we stripthem naked and we put them in
potato sacks because we don'twant them to have any direction.
We don't want them to givetheir clients any direction in
(31:35):
session.
You know you are no one.
No, you are.
You are just an ear.
You are an undirectablesounding board.
That's who you are as a matterof fact.
Stick this.
Post it on your forehead.
That says sounding board yeah,stick, stick it on your forehead
.
Stick it now, go in session.
Yeah.
Like, oh god, yeah, we do dothat, dog, we do hey, hey, hey,
(31:57):
you're okay, you're okay low,you're okay, low, hey.
And we do real people now andyou see we do.
You know we do that.
It's more, it's way moreflexible than that.
You know, and, like you, youwant to worry right.
You want to make sure you'redoing, to worry right.
You want to make sure you'redoing the right job.
You want to make sure you'retaking care of your clients.
(32:18):
You know what I mean.
You want to make sure you'regrowing and progressing.
I get that, but you know it isjust practice and I do feel like
, even in private practice withthe clients and real-life
clients, high stakes in thesense that there's real money,
(32:39):
it's people's lives.
It's still practice.
You're still learning how to dothis stuff.
You're still learning yourstyle, what works, what sounds
good.
You know what I mean.
You know what I mean.
Like dog, even jerry, like dog,jerry is still practicing,
trying to figure things out andyou know taking shots and who
knows?
And maybe you know like, hey,you talk to him and does anybody
(33:01):
remind you of you know he'sjust he's playing jazz.
You know what I mean.
Like there's no mistakes really, yeah, I do.
You know what.
I do think our students hidebehind that, though.
Our students hide behind theseriousness of therapy or the
(33:22):
seriousness of the rules oftherapy outside of their
relationship.
They hide behind theseriousness of ethics class or
the seriousness of, you know, acertain professor's philosophy
of not what do you mean?
Like high, high, use it as ashield.
(33:43):
Oh, use it as a shield, yeah,like like if, if I were myself
in here, I would say thesethings, but they told me I can't
say that.
So I, I'm not saying that youknow.
So, then they.
So then it's like I, I wouldnever say that, but like you
would, though, if, if it was you, you would say that.
(34:03):
So, instead of it being you,you are some like concocted
version of what you think wewant to see.
You know, yeah, um, asprofessors.
So so let me, so let me ask youthis, man, because that was
another thing that came up insupervision man is, at what
point do you feel like it's okayto tell somebody to cut it out?
(34:23):
You mean, tell a student, no,tell a client, like, when do you
think it's okay for a client,for students or for therapists?
You know, know, to be able tolook a client in the you know
orifices of their, their soul,in the windows of their soul?
You know and say, hey, man, hey, that's unhealthy.
(34:46):
No, I don't know.
I don't even think it startswith the unhealthy bit.
I think it starts from the veryfirst session, like, hey,
whatever you're doing in yourrelationships outside of this
room, cut that out.
This relationship is sodifferent from relationships
(35:06):
outside of this room in thesense that, like in here it's, I
would even beg to say Like inhere it's, I would even beg to
say it's even more intimate insome areas, because I'm going to
be pushing to see the real you,or to have the real you
expressed, and you're going tosee me.
(35:27):
It's going to be one of themost genuine relationships, for
sure, for sure, like that you'veever experienced before.
But do you feel like and Iguess let me just say like I
feel like, especially in ourprogram, like we scaffold a lot
of the training and you knowwe've talked about our program
(35:48):
before it's really clinical,highly rigorous, all of that
stuff.
You know, and you know what wetry to do is get students to get
their feet under them, you know, basically, to be able to have
the skills to counsel themselvesout of trouble, right, exactly,
you know what I mean so thatthey can take risks, trusting
(36:12):
that they have the skills to getthemselves out of trouble.
Yeah, you know, and students,you know, our students, I feel
like, are ready for that waybefore students in other
programs are Right.
To me personally, you know, andI do feel like there's a
certain amount of hours, right,and I've been telling, I've been
(36:35):
telling students this and Idon't know, I want to see your
take on it I think around 700hours, 700 direct hours, right,
how many hours do your studentsget by the time they graduate?
600.
Well, it's K-CREP, so 600 ininternship, about 600?
Yeah, 600 in internship andthen like 100.
Well, how many direct hours?
Because it's K-Crep?
So 600 in internship, about 600?
Yeah, 600 in internship, andthen like 100.
(36:56):
Well, how many direct hours?
Because it's what it's like?
240 or something Like 40 directand then 100.
So 240?
Yeah, so around 240 or 250 bythe time they graduate?
No, huh, direct hours.
I thought it was 240, just ininternship.
I don't know, man, I think,because isn't it 240 in
(37:17):
internship, and then like, andthere's like 40 direct.
I teach internship.
Yeah, I teach internship too,and I don't know.
Yeah, so you know.
Hey, this has been the.
This has been the 20th episodeof the podcast.
We don't know what the hellwe're talking about.
No, let's say, dog, you getaround 300 direct hours by the
time you graduate, right?
(37:37):
About 300 direct hours by thetime you graduate, and I think
around the 700th hour, right?
So let's say, another year anda half.
You know, if you LPC associate,lmft associate, I don't know
what y'all call them inLouisiana, but y'all probably do
(37:59):
like we call them kuyas.
Kuyas, yeah, that's just ablanket term for LMFTs and LPCs
is kuyas.
You know.
And then what you call themwhen they get their full license
, when they get their fulllicense, oh, they don't ever do
that.
Oh, because I thought y'allwent from Paias to Kuyon, mm-mm.
(38:19):
And then, okay, well, whatever,I mean maybe in St Bernard
Parish, yeah, oh, okay.
Or maybe in Burbridge, becauseBurbridge, do they have licensed
therapists at Burbridge?
I don't even think so, man.
I don't even think so, man.
I think they still use thebarter system for therapy.
(38:40):
Man, I did therapy one time withsomebody from Burbridge and
they bought me deer sausage.
I was like, I don't think, it'snot.
How much is?
I mean, gregor, you know howmuch is this.
Anyway, anyway, anyway, man,what was I was gonna?
Man, come on man, my bad, mybad, bro.
(39:02):
Yeah, he started my food andyou get all kind of.
What was I talking?
Hey, is she starving you overthere?
Are you?
Are you getting enoughnutrients?
Yeah, bro, okay, you are okay.
Yeah, that's the way the wayyour body shivered when I said
dear sausage, and the way hispupils dilated I said oh, lord
jesus, it's just true.
(39:28):
With that, yeah, uh, nah, man,um, come on man, what was I
talking about, right, oh, hours,hours, hours.
So you got, so you got, I think, around the 700 hour.
Right, you got licensed to beable to tell people to cut it
out.
Yeah, uh, yeah, I really do.
(39:50):
I look, I think you could be, Ithink you could be sitting in a
couple session, right, 700 hours, deep, direct, 700 direct hours
, probably an ingodly amount ofindirect hours, trainings, all
of that stuff.
You've been in supervision forhours, weeks, years.
You sit down with a couple.
(40:11):
You've got a couple who youknow, but you're still like 700
hours, you're still a plpc oryou halfway through?
Yeah, yeah, you have, you know,you're not even halfway through
.
I'm just saying total right andI'm giving some leeway.
You know what I mean, assumingthat the person has good
supervision.
Yeah, right, I think you couldsit down with a couple.
(40:32):
They come in.
They're in a classiccomplimentary relationship style
, pursue a distance, or oneperson's anxious, other person's
avoidant.
They're working towards one ofthe four horsemen.
You know, some contempt isthere, you know, just brewing,
right.
I think you can tell them hey,this is what's.
Look, if y'all want to make anychanges, y'all got to stop
(40:56):
doing this and this, yeah,that's it, that's it.
Yeah, I think, and maybe noteven cut it out, but, like you
know, I think you have a licenseto do, like a little, you know,
a little wink, you know, like alittle like.
You know, like it's with arelationship workout, yeah,
(41:19):
it'll work out.
You give him a little wink, youknow, yeah, yeah, it'll, yeah,
it'll work out.
Yeah, because I think this iswhat happened, I think this is
what happens.
You're trying to look at youlike what was that wink for?
I don't know, I don't know.
You tell me what do you thinkit means.
Nah, man, because I think thisis what happens.
I think.
(41:39):
I think I think couple comes in, right, hey, don't wink at your
clients or the SWAT team isgonna break through your window,
just, you know, I just want tolet all the students who you
know, all my students, know ifyou wink at your clients, yeah,
uh-huh, yeah, ulpd's busting,busting through the door.
(42:46):
I'm out of here.
So, yeah, man, so I I thinkthis is what happens, people.
A couple shows up, you sit therefor the first 30 minutes.
(43:07):
You got it.
You got it.
Yeah, you don't even need to dothe genogram.
You know he comes from a highlyvolatile family where he didn't
get his needs met.
You don't need any moreconvincing.
You don't need it, man.
You know that he needed somestuff.
He didn't get it, so he learnedto stop asking, but he still
desperately needs therelationship.
So, yada, yada, yada.
(43:28):
It plays out like that yeah,right, you know it, you got it
within the first 30 minutes.
Right, but instead of sayingsomething, you go Now.
I wonder why you feel like that.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know whatwe need to do next session.
Let's do a chinogram and let'sget to the bottom of why you do
(43:53):
that.
I think, dog, if we could talkabout like the process here,
though, and I could do it, andthen you could do it, and then
maybe we get on the board, andthen maybe, and you can do, and
then maybe we get on the board,and then maybe, and then so next
session we can do SovereignAttic, viva loops, and then then
we'll get it to thecommunication stances.
(44:16):
Your council take it and thencause, hey, jt, hey, cut it out,
cut it out, but seriously, dog.
And it's like session aftersession after session, hey, but
I think, but listen, in thatfirst 30 minutes she can be like
hey, hey, man, stop, yeah, yeah, listen, stop, yeah, I've seen
(44:40):
this.
Yeah, like, how many hours isenough hours?
Well, you know what, though,like I think students make it
too difficult, like I just leftthe class and in the class one
of the students said how do youknow when to go deeper with a
client who has had extremetrauma in the past?
(45:03):
How do you know, how do you knowwhen, like when it's time to go
deeper, you know?
And I was like I mean you couldjust ask them, yeah, and they
were like what do you mean?
Like you could just say likehey, I know you have a deeply
traumatic past that's extremelytriggering, right, and like one,
one thing that I'm nervousabout is bringing that up and
(45:26):
bringing up all the triggers,and then you know you got to go,
like be with your family afterthese sessions, you know, and
like go back to work.
And so after these sessions,I'm nervous about it, like
lingering on, you know.
So, like, how are we going toknow within our relationship
when it's time to like maybe goa little deeper, you know, with
with our exploration, but that'son.
(45:48):
But I don't think you can dothat unless you approach the
work that you're doing from theposition of practicing.
You know what I mean, likewhere, where you, where you go
to it, and there's morecuriosity.
You know there's more like.
You know there's more like avocalized uncertainty, you know,
(46:12):
like there's more humility.
You know what I mean, withoutmaking yourself the center of
the universe, you know.
You know, in thinking that Ihave the power to hurt this
person, you know, because I dothink that that's a fear and I
(46:33):
just don't think we're thatimportant.
Oh, I think that's the hardestthing.
That's the hardest thing forstudents, you know, and even
some, like you know, beginningclinicians to understand.
Is that, like we are, we are not, we are not so important in in
(46:55):
our clients lives to be somelike to be the villain in their
story.
You, yeah, man, have you heardthat catchphrase before?
Oh for sure, dog, if you coulddo something horrible.
You know when you're takingadvantage of the power dynamic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, that'sbeyond the pale.
You could be the villain insomebody's story in that way,
(47:17):
you know.
But, like, if you are For wrongreflection, bro, bro, come on
From an inaccurate feeling state.
Bro, bro, if you are your mostgenuine self and you communicate
in an open, transparent, honest, genuine way Right, I mean with
(47:41):
the utmost respect for theclient and with the attempt at
bringing you closer to theclient.
If you communicate in that way,even if you make a wrong
reflection, even if you hurt theclient's feelings, even if you
bring up a deeply dramatic thing, like you can always
(48:01):
communicate the dramatic thing.
Like you can always communicateokay, so, like, I felt like
something when I made thatreflection.
You know, like, what did I?
What did I miss?
Or like, like, like you, likeyou said, like I want to go
deeper, but I'm not sure ifgoing deeper is a good time.
Like, right now is a good timefor you.
(48:21):
Yeah, and I, and I don't knowhow will I know?
Yeah, I don't, I don't know.
Yeah, like, help me understandwhen you feel comfortable to go
deeper.
You know and like let'scollaboratively work together to
, like, navigate this thing.
You know, I think if you cancommunicate in that genuine way,
don't you?
You can't do nothing wrong insession, dog, even if you make a
(48:44):
mistake.
Even if you make a mistake andI've done that so many times I
wait students with supervisees,with clients.
You know like you get a senseof a student.
You know and like what they mayneed.
You know, because you've donethis for years and years and
years, but you don't know thefull story.
So you take a chance and youtry to push them in a certain
(49:05):
way, you try to encourage them,you try to do something and it
backfires and you're, and youdon't know it.
But then you, you know what Imean, and so all you're doing is
like hey, man, I'm trying mybest, you know, I'm trying to
care in the best way that I can.
Yeah, man, you know what I mean.
Like I'm a human being, yeah,you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, and
(49:26):
you're going to see that.
You're going to see thathumanness reflected within our
relationship.
You know, yeah, like you'regoing to see it reflected in our
relationship.
Dog, that is so scary forstudents Terrifying, like it's
so scary for students.
It's why I teach the way that Iteach.
You know, in some ways trying toencourage students to swing for
the fences.
(49:47):
Yeah, man, now is the best timeto swing for the fences, like
when you're a student.
Let me do it.
I told my students that thismorning, you know like, please,
please, go in there and beyourself.
I jokingly tell my studentsthrow a pillow at the client.
You know like, obviously, don'tbe throwing pillows at clients
in there and be yourself.
I joke.
Any time I see them it's throwa pillow at the client.
Obviously, don't be throwingpillows at clients, be yourself
(50:10):
in session.
You got to figure out what thatis because when you graduate,
your family's going to bedependent on you earning an
income from being good attherapy.
Your family's going to earn,and some people are lucky enough
to work in an agency where theyjust get clients shoveled to
them.
Some people got to get out ofhere.
(50:31):
Some people got to get it outthe mud.
Some people are fighting thedirt and the only way they can
do that is if you're in session,being your genuine self, taking
cuts.
You can't do it any other way,taking cuts any other way.
Man, you can't go into itperfect.
You can't go into it healed,yeah, you can't go into it ready
.
Yeah, you can't go into it ontime.
(50:53):
You can't go into it with yourfamily, how you want it to be,
or somebody else's cloak on youknow somebody else's cloak of?
Well, you have to be this wayin session, going there dirty,
unshowered, filthy, sinning.
If you had a professor, and yourprofessor has never uttered
these words hey, man, this is mystyle, just chew it, chew on my
(51:18):
style and would you likeSwallow it?
If you feel like a version ofmy style fits for you, like,
swallow it like if you.
If you feel like a version ofmy style fits for you, take it
and take it.
If you, if you completelydisagree with the way that I
work and it's completelydifferent from how you show up
in relationships, then don'tworry about it.
This is, this is how I would doit.
(51:39):
This is what it would look likefor me.
Now, if you see somedifferences, you got to voice
what those differences are.
You got to vocalize it, so weall know how different you are
from my style.
That'll help me understand whoyou are.
I'd run away from somebody whosays this is how you do it, this
is how you should be.
(51:59):
I'd run away.
I'd be worried.
Look, barring, barring, the heyman.
If you're in session and you'retaking your shoes off and
you're putting your legsunderneath you, don't do that.
That ain't therapy, that ain'tit.
Yeah, hey man, therapy is safeand ain't comfortable.
We're talking.
We're talking about style, notprofessionalism, not skills,
(52:22):
knowledge, attitude, disposition.
We're talking about style.
You know what I mean.
But skills, knowledge, attitude, disposition.
We're talking about style.
You know what I mean.
But look, let me end with this,bro.
So I'm working with this.
I have this supervisee right,working with a couple.
Yeah, right, first couple,absolutely.
Your supervisee is seeing acouple First couple, yeah, first
time, crushed it, crushed it soproud.
(52:44):
You know he's so nervous and asI'm listening to it with him,
he's sitting in the chair.
You know I hear each one of theprofessors in his session yeah,
yeah, style, everything Bitingit dog and it works, everything
(53:08):
biting it dog and it works.
And and then, 30 minutes in, youstart seeing his little twist,
yeah, on some of the stuff thatwe said in class.
And I heard myself in there.
I heard me, and you know, andyou're just sitting there and,
dog, he's practicing yeah, man,he don't know what he's doing.
He's giving himself permissionto try some stuff out, yeah, you
know.
And then he comes and watchtape and he goes how is it,
(53:29):
that's what I like, that's whatI didn't like.
All right, I'm going back outthere, like, I mean, he takes a
Gatorade, you know just bottleof water, and then jumps back in
the session.
Yeah, man, the session it's like, dog, I don't know, I don't
know, I don't know.
Jt, that's it.
Anyway, all right, man, I gotto go.
(53:51):
Man, we're having some friendsover for cards.
Man, I'm going to play somespades on them more.
Y'all got a table that's strongenough for that.
I'll be slapping them.
I like to throw my hamstringsin that thing.
Yeah, kaplooey, kaplooey.
Yeah, hey, when is y'all springbreak?
(54:16):
The week before the last weekof class?
What kind of?
Don't make no sense, dog, don'tmake no sense, dog, don't make
no sense.
That's why Louisiana test wasso terrible.
Don't make no sense.
Side note we got a K-Cupaccredited.
We got the full K-Cupaccreditation.
(54:39):
I think they gave us 17 and ahalf years.
You're welcome, I put some.
Yeah, I think they gave us 17and a half years, bro.
You're welcome, bro, I put somestrings.
I put some strings, got y'all.
We got 22 and a half years.
Man, by the time we do theK-Crap report again, I mean,
shoot, I'll be 60.
Yeah, yeah, man, anyway, yeah,yeah, yeah, we're going to try
to be more consistent.
(55:00):
We won't, we won't Listen, wewon't.
This is what's going to happen.
We're going to do this atrandom.
Times are available and that'sit, you know, and we're going to
try not to do 30 minutes.
We could try to hit y'all withan hour, you know, and it's
going to happen randomly.
You know, we got.
(55:20):
That's where we are.
We have so much listener mailthat we have to go through.
Yeah, it's horrible man.
I don't know why y'all trust uswith y'all's development.
I'm just glad y'all stick withthis and listen.
This is real man.
We got kids, life, family, notme.
Please stop listening.
Jesus has kids until they.
He doesn't have kids until theyshow some athletic ability.
(55:40):
Please stop listening.
He doesn't have kids until theyshow some athletic ability.
Please stop listening.
Yeah, please stop.
Nah, man, seriously, man, thisis, this is yeah.
And I also like when people stopme and they're like hey, man,
when you going to cast again,hey, you know what you should
talk about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, keep itcoming.
Keep it coming, keep it coming.
Write it down, it's dope.
Gmailcom.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And also, uh, well, we won'tI'll be at aca.
(56:04):
Yeah, I'm not gonna be.
You gotta let them people knowyou're not gonna be there, bro.
Oh, I gotta let them know.
Yeah, oh, you gotta let themknow.
Yeah, you gotta.
It should be.
You should be getting thoseemail updates every.
Yeah, yeah, there's a littlething there.
You say like, hey, I'm notgonna be able to make it, you
know, uh, you know.
I mean, obviously I can tellpeople.
But yeah, people are going tobe bummed.
Yeah, I know.
But uh, yeah, I'll be.
(56:24):
I'll be there.
Um, throughout the wholeconference I'll be doing a um
two-hour writing um seminar I'mso sad to miss that man.
Two-hour writing seminar onthursday and then another
present self-care presentationon friday, on a saturday, and
then, I think, on friday I'll bedoing book signing.
Same thing on th Thursday,maybe Saturday too, but I got a
(56:45):
skedaddle after Friday.
I'm trying to get home.
I can't come because we gotDaddy Daughter Dance in the
middle of the conference.
Yeah, and you just never know,bro, you just never know.
Man With kids, and you know,like Shiloh was, or Valen was,
six weeks early, yeah, I meanliterally any day now, well,
(57:07):
it'll be six weeks by theconference, by the conference,
yeah, hey, man, you hear mychoo-choo.
I got to go, bro, is that yourtrain coming?
Yeah, that's my train coming.
That's all I know is 830.
Yeah, that's all I know is 830,bro, oh, I know it's 830.
Oh, man, all right, yeah, y'all.
Yeah, I got my bags packed.
I'm about to hop on that.
Hop on that.
I'm about to hop on that.
Right down to DFW Salado.
Here I come, here I come, hereI come, baby.
(57:30):
Here I come, baby.
It took me an hour and a half15-minute trip.
All right, we're going to tryto.
Probably won't be so until nexttime.
We'll see y'all when we seey'all.
See y'all when we see y'all.
Man, hey, next time y'all, hearfrom us.
(57:52):
I'm probably going to haveanother kid that probably going
to be a.
I don't know what happened.
It wasn't in the cards, itwasn't in the plan.
All right, man, hey, to anystudents listening to this get
off our backs, man, this trainis aggressive.
Yeah, bro, they letting youknow they coming, bro.
Yeah, all right, man, all right, let me stop the recording.
(58:14):
Oh, before I forget what To anystudents out there studying for
comps man, keep your head up,keep your head up, keep your
head up, man.
I got somebody taking it.
When's y'all's comps day?
I was just like March 24th orsomething.
We have two days.
Yeah, that's it March 24th.
That's it Right.
Yeah, after spring break for us, man.
Hey, if you're just studying, ifyou're just starting to study,
(58:36):
all hope, stop, stop.
Look, hey, man, you'd be bestto just do some meal preps.
Hey, who are you fooling?
Do some meal preps and meditate.
Hey, go in there.
Go in there.
You know what's the best thingto do.
(59:00):
If you haven't started studyingin January and you just started
studying this week, take thepractice test, stop.
Go to Amazon.
Go to Amazon and go to ACAwebsite and get yourself these
books.
Get yourself CounselorSelf-Care 2nd Edition.
Get yourself Developing yourClinical Skills.
What else?
What else should they get?
(59:20):
What else should they get?
Get yourself Surviving andThriving in your counselor
program.
Get yourself the counseloreducators guide.
Yep, uh-huh, yeah, get yourselfthose and read them.
Yeah, read, you know, as amatter of hug them, buy, buy, uh
, some for your friends too.
Yeah, yeah, buy some copies foryour friends too.
(59:41):
Yeah, don't, don't be a jerk.
Yeah, come on man.
Uh, you know, you think youthink you're the only one that
hadn't started studying yet.
Don't be a jerk, yeah, no, butseriously though, if you hadn't
started studying, uh, just takethe practice quiz and uh, and
may god bless the children.
No, you need to do some physicalpractice.
You need to sit down for twoand a half hours to four hours.
You need to practice.
(01:00:02):
You don't need to be studyingright now.
It's study time.
No, you need to be answeringquestions.
You need to be getting yourbody ready.
You need to be getting yourbody regulated.
You need to know when you gotto go to the bathroom.
You need to start clenching,because that hamstring them.
Glutes going to be tight.
Start answering questions outloud to prepare for that oral
(01:00:25):
exam.
Tight, yeah, tight, tight,tight, tight, yeah.
I got it All right, all right,all right, all right, all right,
all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all
right, all right, all right.
Where are your bodyguards?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let me see.
Let me see.
Okay, now we're talking, nowwe're talking.
Yeah, now I can see you.
Yeah, you got me, you got me.
(00:38):
Yeah, what you trying to talkabout today like that, bro, I
got some stuff, man, but yeah,well, you know, I just kind of
want to check in.
The last time we did this waswho?
Uh, 97, 90, 96, 97.
Uh, the last time we did this,a lot of our listeners weren't
(00:59):
even born yet, you know.
So, come on, come on, yeah,it's yeah, you.
You call me and told me thatthe streets were talking.
The streets were were talking.
Yeah, man, one of my studentsburst into my room with all
kinds of excitement, talkingabout hey, hey, hey, hey,
where's the podcast at?
Hold on, let me turn myheadphones down, bro, because
you're screaming at me right now.
Oh, my bad, my bad, big dog.
(01:20):
You're screaming, oh my bad,like, hey, look at your levels,
man, your level's all in the red.
Yeah, I'm just excited to behere, big dog.
I'm just excited to be here,man, I miss talking to you.
What kind of Crayola shirt yougot on, like that, bro.
Yeah, bro, this is not asponsorship, but it's a shirt
(01:42):
brought to you.
This episode is brought to youby One Bone, wow, no, no, no,
I've been there.
To be honest, man, the faculty,well, the dress code at UL is a
little laxed.
You know In a good way, oh, ina good way, in a good way, man,
(02:05):
but you know how Ied.
You know In a good way, oh, ina good way, in a good way, man,
but you know how I mean.
You know how I come, you know,yeah, but y'all, public school
though, yeah, you know how Icome through.
Yeah, they lucky if they don'tsee me in a three-piece suit.
So it's been a little weird.
I've been having to, like, youknow, like, really do some like
(02:27):
re-engineering of what my, yeah,what my, because, listen, man,
if I walked in there in a suitjacket, they'd be like what
funeral are you going to?
Who died?
Who died?
What time does it start?
Where's the repass?
Where's the rep?
Yeah, man.
So I don't know, bro, I've beengetting a lot of stuff, a lot
(02:48):
of stuff online, so you know,but that's neither here or there
.
Man, hey, man, we back, we back,man, yeah, you know, it's bad
when students start coming intoyour office and they're looking
at you like okay, man, hey, comeon podcast ideals.
Yeah, like, okay, man, come uppodcast ideals.
Yeah, hey, man, hey, I don'tknow if you ever thought about
yeah, I don't know if you guysare still together, like, I
(03:12):
don't know if y'all still likeeach other, but maybe if y'all
ever get to the cast again, youcould you know.
Nah, man, look, look, look,jesus, let's stop kidding
ourselves.
Man, look, we don't have thetime for a weekly podcast.
Oh, we have the time.
Oh, no, yeah, we have the time.
It's you, jude, it's you.
We don't have the time.
No, it's you.
Now listen, if we wanted to meetless with students and be a
(03:35):
little more absent in ourprogram, I can't do that.
Sure, I can't do that, man,that one student in question
keeps bothering me.
Man, that one student inquestion keeps bothering me.
She knows who she is.
I have to sit behind her bighead in our internship class.
I can't even see the videoprojected on the board.
It's bad, that's funny, bro.
(03:56):
Nah, man, nah.
But anyway, I'm excited to behere, man, so why'd you call me
up here?
What do you want?
Oh, what do you want?
What do you want?
Well, you know, I just figured.
How have you been?
How have you been, man?
How's the semester going?
The semester, yeah, it's flyingby, it is right.
Yeah, man, we already on springbreak, it's flying by dog.
(04:18):
I was talking to some of mystudents the other day, man,
like we only have like six weeksleft.
Oh, yeah, like seven weeks left, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm teaching
a clinical class, so I gotta do, I gotta do ccs's, I gotta do
midterm stuff.
Yeah, like I didn't even it'slike midterm, it's like the
middle of the semester, justkind of like jumped up behind
(04:41):
some bushes man and and startedyou and flashed you or something
.
You know, um, you know it's,it's, it's, yeah, it's crazy.
But you know, we, me and meganso we had an ultrasound, uh,
about a week and a half ago and,uh, baby is doing great.
So, if any, if you're newlistener, we're having me and my
(05:01):
wife, we're having our fourthkid, and when I say we, I mean
she is.
I'm just gonna be kind of likehanging out, um, as you do.
Yeah, you know just, uh, it's,it's baby number four.
So you don't really get involveduntil what they like six, seven
years old, oh, that's reallywhen you, that's really me
personally, you personally, no,no, no.
(05:24):
If they have any inkling ofbeing an athlete, then I step in
.
Oh, that's when you turn it on.
Yeah, that's when I step in.
Yeah, that's when daddy lovesyou, daddy loves you and daddy
loves you, daddy's here, youknow.
But if you know, if our kidshas the unfortunate you know,
like not the unfortunate narpgene, then yeah, I can't.
(05:46):
Um, so you just throw a ball atthem, you put some cones out
right outside of that bed to seeif they can.
No, I know, I drive my car at.
I mean, if they can dodge, ifthe plyometrics is good, that's
like spartan.
Yeah, if the shuffle skills isshuffling, then then I know I
got something I like to put mykids.
We call it real danger training.
(06:07):
Hold on, man, hold on hold onBoop, boop, boop.
Let me call them people, bro.
Oh, that's how your phone sound.
What you got?
An iPhone 6?
.
You still got the home buttonon your phone.
It's rotary.
It's rotary, jesus Christ, boop, you know, you know how it is.
Hey, man, hey, I miss landlines.
(06:29):
I miss landlines.
Yeah, you miss landlines.
I really do, I really do dogLike, honestly, man, honestly, I
wish that I could turn my.
I mean, it's not that I can'tdo this, brett, but like turn my
cell phone off when I get homeand just have the landline.
(06:52):
Yeah, so only people who likereally know, well, yeah, because
.
So here's the thing, brett, andI know people, listen, man,
listen, man, listen.
We watched the Cosby Show,listen.
My kids don't know we got a 1-9in the front of our birth year.
My kids don't know when you gotto put in the year of when you
(07:16):
were born on a little onlinething.
You scroll it.
It's like the price is right,nah, man.
So Theo, yeah, it's like theprice is right in this, you?
No, I remember so.
So, uh, so so, theo, you know,in the episode, one of the
episodes, theo met this girl atthis art show and she called.
She called him at the house, sothe whole family was in the
(07:36):
living room I'm watching it withkian and valent, you know and
the phone rings and theo picksup the phone and he goes you
know Dr Huxtable's residence andKeenan goes what's he doing?
And I was like, oh, he'sanswering the phone.
You know, back in the day, likewhen daddy was a kid, they had a
house phone and so when youanswered it you had to say you
(07:57):
know Austin residence.
You had to say something likethat I want to get a landline
just for them to learn how totalk to people.
Man, you got to.
How to talk to people.
It's a hidden skill.
It's a hidden skill.
It's a skill that it's a hiddenskill.
I know dog, like you know.
I mean now we have front officepeople that the COC at our
(08:19):
community clinic, you know, thatcalls and you know and answers
clients and all of that stuff.
But back in the day we did allthat you know, and you had to
call them.
You had to cold call somebodyand be like hey, my name's Jude,
I work for the Community LifeCenter.
I saw that you asked about ifwe could see people.
(08:39):
Well, we got an opening.
Do you want to set up a time?
Yeah, well, we got an opening,you know.
Do you want to set up a time?
Yeah, you know, and god forbidthe.
You know the voicemail and youuh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh.
Hi, my name is because youweren't prepared for you know, I
(09:02):
want my kids to know how to doall of that stuff, right?
Well, hey, we got in our, inour clinic at ul.
We got, you've got studentsanswer the phone, man, we got
like, yeah, us too, us too.
But I just, you know, sometimesI'll be listening to them, I'll
be listening to them freak outwhen it's their first time
answering the phone.
Yeah, I'll pick it up, hello,hello, look at that, jump the
(09:25):
shoulders, jump up, anyway, man,anyway, anyway, cool man.
So what were you saying aboutyour, uh, your fourth kid?
Yeah, no, no, yeah, man, wewent, we had an ultrasound.
Everything was good, healthy,um, and you know the, the uh,
megan's um due date is the 27thright of April.
Oh, okay, and that's like thelast day of the semester, you
(09:50):
know.
So, yeah, I'm just, you know,like just hanging out, man, just
like just hanging out, bro,we've been lucky man, we've been
lucky.
We have kids on Fridays.
Okay, kids on Fridays.
Get that weekend.
For us it's usually during abreak.
For our first it was Christmasbreak, for our second it was
(10:13):
Mardi Gras break, for our thirdit was fall break.
This one's going to be in thesemester break, it's going to be
the summer break.
We timing that way.
Nah, bro, it's been good, goodman, since, since we talked dog,
oh, I gotta tell you something,man, like, uh, we just got a
text message from uh cairo'scoach.
(10:35):
Right, yeah, I was in in uh in2016s, right, uh-huh.
So he has a tournament thisweekend where he has to play two
games, and he just got asked toplay on the 2015 team 25.
So it's a year up, you know.
So he's gonna be a guest playeron one of the older, one of the
(10:55):
older kids teams, you know, andso that means he's gonna play
four games this weekend.
Hey, remember when that happenedto us, that's when we got
called up to play with thestrikers?
Yeah, it was, it was.
It was an all-white team, youknow, it took me and you were
probably hey, remember when thathappened to us?
That's when we got called up toplay with the Strikers.
It was an all-white team andyou were probably the only black
kids in this team since thehistory of it, and so we didn't
know what to do.
And so we were like, okay, dog,we got to look, let's just dive
(11:17):
into the culture, man, let'sjust dive into the culture.
What did they say?
What did the whites say?
What did they?
We started watching uh x games.
We said, okay, hey, man, we gotto try to use totally and
radical uh as many times aspossible, man.
And so we're in the huddle, meand you is sitting across from
each other stretching, and someyou know kid will say like hey,
(11:40):
and just so, just so y'all know,hey, louisiana, louisiana,
white people, different, I thinkthey're different.
They're different as you'reprobably seeing on social media.
They're different, you know,and so you know they're talking
to me and you look at each otherout of the side of an eye, like
you know, and I sneak in alittle like yeah, man, that's
totally awesome.
And then we look at each otherbecause the team we played for
(12:08):
had black kids, mexican kids, sowe got called up to play for
the strikers.
It was like you gotta be on time, you gotta have the right
uniform.
When coach says yeah, whencoach says be that 30 minutes
before the game, he means bethere 30 minutes or you ain't
playing.
You ain't playing.
Yeah, man, yeah bro, that'scool man.
(12:31):
So you got four games thisweekend.
I saw him on the team's socialmedia page, man, they're
highlighting him.
It seems like he's got a starrising man.
Oh, chip off the old block, man,chip off the old block.
I don't know about that.
Chip off the old block he mightbe surpassing, he may have
(12:52):
already.
Yeah, chip off the old block.
Anyway, man, enough about you,man, so, yeah, I'm doing good,
kid's doing good, all of thatstuff, bro, we just built a
trampoline, you know, oh, yeah,I'm doing good, kids doing good,
all of that stuff, bro, we justbuilt a trampoline.
You know, like we, oh, y'allgot one.
Yeah, we put it together me andlindsay was out there, bro, hey
(13:13):
man, I did it by myself.
Trampolines, those are bymyself.
Huh, I did it by myself.
Hey, man, it's not my as a look, whatever's going on between
you and megan is none of mybusiness.
It sounds like you don't havethe support you need, you know,
but that's not, that's not aconversation for here at genius.
Okay, you don't have someboundaries, you know some
boundaries.
You know how hard it was to getthat one spring, that's all the
(13:34):
way.
I couldn't not, man, I couldn'tdo it by myself, bro, it didn't
want myself.
I think I sent you a picture ofthis man with all the
neighborhood kids.
Oh, you did, you know, becauseit's all spring.
I don't't know if I did, bro,we had about 10, 11 kids in our
yard, man, yeah, that's whatthey do, bro, sitting there
asking when is the trampolinegoing to be done?
Yeah, what Megan calls them arelittle liabilities.
(13:55):
What happens if somebody breakstheir arm in your yard?
Do you have the courage youneed?
I do have the courage.
I called my insurance adjusterthe other day because all these
kids, I was like, hey, Iliterally just talked to mine at
five, 15 today, yeah, hey, ifsomething happens, what do I do
(14:15):
first?
No, when you get older, you,you, you call your insurance
broker and be like hey, jeremy,listen, we need to do something
about these trees because I'mafraid of a name storm that's
going to come our way.
Mine's name is justin.
Bro, hey, nicest dude in theworld, bro, nice man, nicest
(14:36):
dude in the world.
Hey, look, I feel better takencare of by him than I do.
Some doctors like I may callthem and ask medical questions.
Hey, listen, anyway, real quickhe said, yeah, you might need
to do something about thosetrees.
I called somebody that minute.
The dude came right.
An hour later he was.
I was like how much are yougoing to charge for your first
(14:57):
like cut?
You know?
So he told me.
I was like okay, so can youcome every other week?
He's like yeah.
I was like do you do?
Do you do trees?
He was like, yeah, I was likemy man.
My man I called Jeremy.
Hey, just want to let you know,I took care of it.
Yeah, we going steady now.
Yeah, me and him, you and him,yeah, we going steady.
Oh, that's what's going on.
That's why you're fixing thetrampoline by yourself for me in
(15:20):
ways that you know.
No, I thought so.
Jeremy didn't help either.
Man, I'm starting to think it'syou If she didn't help.
Jeremy didn't help.
Jeremy was extremely helpful.
Don't talk about my insuranceadjuster like that, man.
Don't talk about my broker,don't?
Anyway, anyway.
(15:42):
So here's what I wanted to talkto you about, man.
All right, bro, yeah, lay it onme, lay it on me GT.
I'm excited.
So I've been doing supervision.
I've been doing supervision forthe state.
You know LPC, lmft, supervision.
Holler at your boy.
You know prices are fair.
That's the name of his LLC.
(16:03):
Holler at your boy.
Ooh, oh, that would have been agood name.
Dog, that would have been agood.
Holla at your boy.
Counseling consultant oh, man,no, I just I went with pretty
good counseling.
Ah, man, holla at your boy.
That should have been numbertwo.
You know what?
I'm gonna start another one,man, anyway, anyway.
(16:25):
And so in Supervision, man, wewere talking about just how much
of your experience and I knowthis sounds dumb, right, it
sounds like, yes, obviously, butjust how much of your
experience comes from just doingtherapy, yeah Right, just
(16:51):
sitting in front of clients dayin, day out, taking cuts, making
mistakes.
Yeah, you know, I know some ofour listeners, you know, are
like, you know, I don't know ifI'm ever going to get it, you
know.
You know, maybe I'll never getthis, you know I suck, I'm not
as good as so-and-so.
You know, we've got a lot ofstudents, you know, and I'm
(17:13):
talking mainly about yourstudents, you know, because I
know do that.
Well, I just know your program,I think we're getting away from
the point.
I think we're getting away fromthe point, cause your program is
a little light in the uh,clinical, you know, like, uh, um
, training, aggression, huh,yeah, okay, yeah, that too,
(17:35):
uh-huh, I would say we're more,we're more of a four, four, two
type of uh, yeah, we're a four,five, one, yeah, yeah, yeah,
with a false nine, yeah, we'remore, four, two, yeah, and you
know, so we were just talkingabout, like, how so many people
are just so many counselors arejust scared of just getting out
(17:59):
there.
You know, like they think theyhave to be at a place in order
to do this work.
You know, yeah, yeah, you know,like, how many students do you
feel like you meet with that sayI'm not ready for this?
You know, like I'm not readyfor clinical work?
No, I think I meet with.
(18:20):
I think no student is ready forclinical work.
I think the amount of time thatwe give them is so short before
they actually go into clinicalwork to where, you know and it
doesn't I'm just talking aboutevery, every program in general
it's so short to where, like,there's no way you can be, like,
truly ready.
(18:41):
You know, yeah, um, but I dofeel like like students have
this ideal of who they should be, which is like non-directive,
um, almost passive.
You know Passive, yeah, andalso like not genuinely present
in session.
You know so, just like kind oflike ta-ta-ing them.
(19:04):
You know, like you know what'syour goals and like let's, you
know like just the fact that youcame into session means so much
to me.
That type of stuff you know,yeah, yeah, yeah, what, you know
what, and I think I think, Ithink what students lack is that
(19:24):
like, um, that permission fromsome professors to like, hey,
man, go in there and be yourselfand just like and see if that
works for you.
But so here's what we weretalking about.
Right, we were talking abouthow like they're like it's, it's
(19:45):
gonna be ugly.
You know it's not gonna bepretty.
Yeah, you know like it's notgonna be professional, it's not
gonna be organized's going to bea dumpster fire.
But what do you mean by thatLike it's going to be a dumpster
fire.
It's not going to be pretty.
I mean like you're going to betrying techniques and
interventions.
You're going to be trying tolisten and not capture the real
(20:07):
feeling words You're going to.
You know you're going to haveclients that you're holding back
because you didn't lay down agood structure for the process.
You know like you know what Imean.
Then you'll, every now and then, have a home run session when
you're like that's how I want tofeel.
You know like that's it, youknow.
And so we were talking about how, like sometimes and she didn't
(20:28):
know this, you know I'm talkingabout jessica, by the way um, it
was like one of my favoritepeople and she's she's a
supervisee of mine, you know,and she, we were talking about
how, like, a lot of that stuffcould be worked out, like the
insecurities, the oh, thetransference session in session,
(20:48):
just just by, just by doing it.
You know, let me finish thisthought, let me finish this
thought.
And then I mean, like sure, getsome therapy, do EMDR, yeah, do
that stuff.
Yeah, you know.
But like, listen, and I mean Idon't want to sound like I am
(21:10):
trivializing people's work, youknow, but I do feel like, doc,
sometimes you don't need all ofthat stuff, you just need a good
supervisor and you just needpractice.
Oh, yeah, for sure, you justneed hours under your belt.
But I think that's the thing inthere.
A good supervisor, you know,like a good easier, a good
(21:34):
supervisor will will.
This is the thing.
If what I what?
What I see is that, like man,if it's not, if whatever's going
on with you is not worked outright, then it's, it's going to
be worked on in session.
So I had a supervisee the otherday who, during internship, it
(21:58):
just kind of came out that like,oh, the way that you're
relating to your client is theway that you relate to other
people outside of the room.
So, like what's the fundamentalthings that you need from your
client and I forget the wordsthat they use, but it was.
It was like oh, I need this andI need that, you know.
And it's like and do you alsoneed that in your, your, your
(22:20):
relationships now?
And he's like.
He's like yeah, yeah, it'sclassic.
Yeah, and it's a class, it's aclassic thing, you know.
But, man, when you're like, whenyou're in session and you're
just like doing therapy and youdon't know why you feel so angry
or frustrated or whatever, youknow, like that anger and that
frustration is usually comingout because you're not getting
(22:41):
your needs met in session.
Right, and your needs is likethe relationship to feel more
responsible, or the client tofeel more, the client to take
more responsibility in arelationship, or for the for the
for the relationship to beequal.
You know, or you know, yeah,bro, yeah, whatever, yeah, dogs
and and honestly, that was kindof the subtext of our
(23:03):
conversation, you know, or evenlike the next, the next point
you know was like you have thesethings, that that that go on in
session, right, like theseneeds, these unmet needs, these
frustrations with clients, theselittle annoyances you know what
I mean Like confusion, whatever, you know, sometimes not linked
(23:40):
to some deep dark.
You know like, uh, you know,yeah, yeah, unhealthy.
You know depravity, yeah, thatneeds to be sussed out, cleansed
, pressure washed with.
You know some, some, some sixweek, you know, ayahuasca,
silent retreat, you know what Imean.
Like sometimes you just need togo to the next session, yeah,
(24:00):
yeah, you know.
And then the next session afterthat.
Well, you know and I'm notsaying, I'm not saying power
through right, I'm saying like,have some awareness of it, be
curious about it, try to figureit out in the next session, go
to supervision.
But also like, go to the nextsession and and practice, no,
but I, I do think that somestudents get lost in that I need
(24:23):
to be helpful, uh, uh,conundrum, you know, and that
that need, that that aggressiveneed to feel helpful in session,
completely like shadows.
It completely puts into shadow,like what's actually happening
(24:43):
in session for the student, youknow, or for the clinician.
So, instead of looking at asession and like saying I'm
feeling this way in session andbecause I'm feeling this way,
it's probably because I havethis need that's not getting met
by this client and this needthat's not getting met by this
(25:04):
client.
It's a real and true thing thatexists within our relationship
and maybe, if I feel this way,other people may feel this way.
Maybe, if I feel this way,other people may feel this way.
Let me help the client to bemore aware of what our
relationship feels like to me.
You know, like, instead ofdoing that, they go to, oh, I
(25:26):
need to be helpful, like I gotto be helpful.
So what I'm saying is you gotsome students who say I want to
be helpful and if they don'tfeel helpful in a session, then
it's a a bad session.
So then they move on to thenext session and they try to be
helpful and maybe they arehelpful, so that's a good
session.
So you got bad and goodsessions with no real
exploration of, like, what'sgoing on.
(25:48):
So they don't, they don't, theydon't get that, they don't get
that session experience becausetheir relationships, their
relationship to the therapeuticrelationship, is hollow.
Thank you, I do feel likethere's some Like the, the work
(27:07):
in between the sessions.
It's where it's at.
You know, okay, yeah, yeah,yeah, right, but listen.
You know, okay, yeah, right,but but listen, I don't mean
that.
Like, there needs to be thislike big, deep soul search.
Yeah, you know, for some peopleit can be that you know what I
mean.
I guess what I'm saying issometimes you have to put
(27:28):
therapy where it needs to beright.
Do you get what I'm saying?
Here's what I mean.
Here's the thing that I feellike sounds kind of like I don't
know how it sounds, bro Is thatsometimes some of your sessions
are just practice.
(27:51):
Yeah, man, now listen, I knowthere's a real human being
sitting in front of you.
Yeah, you know who needs thingsand you got to develop a
treatment plan and all otherstuff.
But, dog, sometimes you got togo into a session and go.
I'm going to practice therapy.
(28:12):
Like it's not called privatepractice for nothing, it's not
called practicum for nothing.
Nuggets, nuggets.
You know what I mean, nuggets.
But seriously, dog, like youhave to put that dog's also
dropping dimes.
I'm just saying you just gottaput it in the right place.
(28:36):
I'm also hitting that car, whoa.
But you, but you know what Imean.
Dog, like, like you just haveto see it like and dog.
And honestly, I think the morethat I do as me practicing to
(28:56):
try to have like I'm justpracticing at having a good
relationship with people, I'mjust practicing honesty.
I'm practicing confrontation.
You know, I could sit in asession and go dang.
I lost it.
That was the moment I shouldhave said and you're acting just
like your dad.
Boom, you know what I mean.
(29:18):
Take that, take that, take that, take that.
And another thing is that ifyou're acting like your dad,
then I feel like your kid, andyou know what it sucks.
Yeah, boom, I missed it.
I missed it.
But you know what?
I got another hour.
Yeah, you know, I got anotherhour.
I got another hour.
(29:38):
And also there's thepotentiality of seeing this
client next week.
Maybe I got next week, you know.
Well, maybe I can practice whatrepairing a relationship looks
like.
Yeah, dog, like every singlething, you know it's like that.
I just feel like a lot ofpeople make it life or death.
Oh yeah, I was just about to saythat I don't think our students
(30:01):
, I don't think any student well, I'm not going to say any
student, but I don't think moststudents have that capacity to
not see this as practice.
Like you know, we build them upand say like hey, build them up
, we do.
If you brush a client's leg,you will go to the clink, clink,
(30:24):
let me find out.
I already have the nine and theone pressed.
Let me find out.
You ain't doing them.
Clinical notes Let me find out.
Did you overshare?
Oh look, I'm gonna need yourstudent ID right now.
(30:46):
I need your student ID.
Give it to me.
Did you just give a directive insession?
Excuse me, are you beingdirective, are you?
I told you to come in sessionbutt naked so you don't give
(31:12):
your clients any direction.
What?
No, I'm talking.
Oh, it must be a you out thing.
Yeah, that's what we do.
Yeah, you're already accreditedman.
Now y'all could be your truefreak self.
We put our students, we stripthem naked and we put them in
potato sacks because we don'twant them to have any direction.
We don't want them to givetheir clients any direction in
(31:35):
session.
You know you are no one.
No, you are.
You are just an ear.
You are an undirectablesounding board.
That's who you are as a matterof fact.
Stick this.
Post it on your forehead.
That says sounding board yeah,stick, stick it on your forehead
.
Stick it now, go in session.
Yeah.
Like, oh god, yeah, we do dothat, dog, we do hey, hey, hey,
(31:57):
you're okay, you're okay low,you're okay, low, hey.
And we do real people now andyou see we do.
You know we do that.
It's more, it's way moreflexible than that.
You know, and, like you, youwant to worry right.
You want to make sure you'redoing, to worry right.
You want to make sure you'redoing the right job.
You want to make sure you'retaking care of your clients.
(32:18):
You know what I mean.
You want to make sure you'regrowing and progressing.
I get that, but you know it isjust practice and I do feel like
, even in private practice withthe clients and real-life
clients, high stakes in thesense that there's real money,
(32:39):
it's people's lives.
It's still practice.
You're still learning how to dothis stuff.
You're still learning yourstyle, what works, what sounds
good.
You know what I mean.
You know what I mean.
Like dog, even jerry, like dog,jerry is still practicing,
trying to figure things out andyou know taking shots and who
knows?
And maybe you know like, hey,you talk to him and does anybody
(33:01):
remind you of you know he'sjust he's playing jazz.
You know what I mean.
Like there's no mistakes really, yeah, I do.
You know what.
I do think our students hidebehind that, though.
Our students hide behind theseriousness of therapy or the
(33:22):
seriousness of the rules oftherapy outside of their
relationship.
They hide behind theseriousness of ethics class or
the seriousness of, you know, acertain professor's philosophy
of not what do you mean?
Like high, high, use it as ashield.
(33:43):
Oh, use it as a shield, yeah,like like if, if I were myself
in here, I would say thesethings, but they told me I can't
say that.
So I, I'm not saying that youknow.
So, then they.
So then it's like I, I wouldnever say that, but like you
would, though, if, if it was you, you would say that.
(34:03):
So, instead of it being you,you are some like concocted
version of what you think wewant to see.
You know, yeah, um, asprofessors.
So so let me, so let me ask youthis, man, because that was
another thing that came up insupervision man is, at what
point do you feel like it's okayto tell somebody to cut it out?
(34:23):
You mean, tell a student, no,tell a client, like, when do you
think it's okay for a client,for students or for therapists?
You know, know, to be able tolook a client in the you know
orifices of their, their soul,in the windows of their soul?
You know and say, hey, man, hey, that's unhealthy.
(34:46):
No, I don't know.
I don't even think it startswith the unhealthy bit.
I think it starts from the veryfirst session, like, hey,
whatever you're doing in yourrelationships outside of this
room, cut that out.
This relationship is sodifferent from relationships
(35:06):
outside of this room in thesense that, like in here it's, I
would even beg to say Like inhere it's, I would even beg to
say it's even more intimate insome areas, because I'm going to
be pushing to see the real you,or to have the real you
expressed, and you're going tosee me.
(35:27):
It's going to be one of themost genuine relationships, for
sure, for sure, like that you'veever experienced before.
But do you feel like and Iguess let me just say like I
feel like, especially in ourprogram, like we scaffold a lot
of the training and you knowwe've talked about our program
(35:48):
before it's really clinical,highly rigorous, all of that
stuff.
You know, and you know what wetry to do is get students to get
their feet under them, you know, basically, to be able to have
the skills to counsel themselvesout of trouble, right, exactly,
you know what I mean so thatthey can take risks, trusting
(36:12):
that they have the skills to getthemselves out of trouble.
Yeah, you know, and students,you know, our students, I feel
like, are ready for that waybefore students in other
programs are Right.
To me personally, you know, andI do feel like there's a
certain amount of hours, right,and I've been telling, I've been
(36:35):
telling students this and Idon't know, I want to see your
take on it I think around 700hours, 700 direct hours, right,
how many hours do your studentsget by the time they graduate?
600.
Well, it's K-CREP, so 600 ininternship, about 600?
Yeah, 600 in internship andthen like 100.
Well, how many direct hours?
Because it's K-Crep?
So 600 in internship, about 600?
Yeah, 600 in internship, andthen like 100.
(36:56):
Well, how many direct hours?
Because it's what it's like?
240 or something Like 40 directand then 100.
So 240?
Yeah, so around 240 or 250 bythe time they graduate?
No, huh, direct hours.
I thought it was 240, just ininternship.
I don't know, man, I think,because isn't it 240 in
(37:17):
internship, and then like, andthere's like 40 direct.
I teach internship.
Yeah, I teach internship too,and I don't know.
Yeah, so you know.
Hey, this has been the.
This has been the 20th episodeof the podcast.
We don't know what the hellwe're talking about.
No, let's say, dog, you getaround 300 direct hours by the
time you graduate, right?
(37:37):
About 300 direct hours by thetime you graduate, and I think
around the 700th hour, right?
So let's say, another year anda half.
You know, if you LPC associate,lmft associate, I don't know
what y'all call them inLouisiana, but y'all probably do
(37:59):
like we call them kuyas.
Kuyas, yeah, that's just ablanket term for LMFTs and LPCs
is kuyas.
You know.
And then what you call themwhen they get their full license
, when they get their fulllicense, oh, they don't ever do
that.
Oh, because I thought y'allwent from Paias to Kuyon, mm-mm.
(38:19):
And then, okay, well, whatever,I mean maybe in St Bernard
Parish, yeah, oh, okay.
Or maybe in Burbridge, becauseBurbridge, do they have licensed
therapists at Burbridge?
I don't even think so, man.
I don't even think so, man.
I think they still use thebarter system for therapy.
(38:40):
Man, I did therapy one time withsomebody from Burbridge and
they bought me deer sausage.
I was like, I don't think, it'snot.
How much is?
I mean, gregor, you know howmuch is this.
Anyway, anyway, anyway, man,what was I was gonna?
Man, come on man, my bad, mybad, bro.
(39:02):
Yeah, he started my food andyou get all kind of.
What was I talking?
Hey, is she starving you overthere?
Are you?
Are you getting enoughnutrients?
Yeah, bro, okay, you are okay.
Yeah, that's the way the wayyour body shivered when I said
dear sausage, and the way hispupils dilated I said oh, lord
jesus, it's just true.
(39:28):
With that, yeah, uh, nah, man,um, come on man, what was I
talking about, right, oh, hours,hours, hours.
So you got, so you got, I think, around the 700 hour.
Right, you got licensed to beable to tell people to cut it
out.
Yeah, uh, yeah, I really do.
(39:50):
I look, I think you could be, Ithink you could be sitting in a
couple session, right, 700 hours, deep, direct, 700 direct hours
, probably an ingodly amount ofindirect hours, trainings, all
of that stuff.
You've been in supervision forhours, weeks, years.
You sit down with a couple.
(40:11):
You've got a couple who youknow, but you're still like 700
hours, you're still a plpc oryou halfway through?
Yeah, yeah, you have, you know,you're not even halfway through
.
I'm just saying total right andI'm giving some leeway.
You know what I mean, assumingthat the person has good
supervision.
Yeah, right, I think you couldsit down with a couple.
(40:32):
They come in.
They're in a classiccomplimentary relationship style
, pursue a distance, or oneperson's anxious, other person's
avoidant.
They're working towards one ofthe four horsemen.
You know, some contempt isthere, you know, just brewing,
right.
I think you can tell them hey,this is what's.
Look, if y'all want to make anychanges, y'all got to stop
(40:56):
doing this and this, yeah,that's it, that's it.
Yeah, I think, and maybe noteven cut it out, but, like you
know, I think you have a licenseto do, like a little, you know,
a little wink, you know, like alittle like.
You know, like it's with arelationship workout, yeah,
(41:19):
it'll work out.
You give him a little wink, youknow, yeah, yeah, it'll, yeah,
it'll work out.
Yeah, because I think this iswhat happened, I think this is
what happens.
You're trying to look at youlike what was that wink for?
I don't know, I don't know.
You tell me what do you thinkit means.
Nah, man, because I think thisis what happens.
I think.
(41:39):
I think I think couple comes in, right, hey, don't wink at your
clients or the SWAT team isgonna break through your window,
just, you know, I just want tolet all the students who you
know, all my students, know ifyou wink at your clients, yeah,
uh-huh, yeah, ulpd's busting,busting through the door.
(42:46):
I'm out of here.
So, yeah, man, so I I thinkthis is what happens, people.
A couple shows up, you sit therefor the first 30 minutes.
(43:07):
You got it.
You got it.
Yeah, you don't even need to dothe genogram.
You know he comes from a highlyvolatile family where he didn't
get his needs met.
You don't need any moreconvincing.
You don't need it, man.
You know that he needed somestuff.
He didn't get it, so he learnedto stop asking, but he still
desperately needs therelationship.
So, yada, yada, yada.
(43:28):
It plays out like that yeah,right, you know it, you got it
within the first 30 minutes.
Right, but instead of sayingsomething, you go Now.
I wonder why you feel like that.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know whatwe need to do next session.
Let's do a chinogram and let'sget to the bottom of why you do
(43:53):
that.
I think, dog, if we could talkabout like the process here,
though, and I could do it, andthen you could do it, and then
maybe we get on the board, andthen maybe, and you can do, and
then maybe we get on the board,and then maybe, and then so next
session we can do SovereignAttic, viva loops, and then then
we'll get it to thecommunication stances.
(44:16):
Your council take it and thencause, hey, jt, hey, cut it out,
cut it out, but seriously, dog.
And it's like session aftersession after session, hey, but
I think, but listen, in thatfirst 30 minutes she can be like
hey, hey, man, stop, yeah, yeah, listen, stop, yeah, I've seen
(44:40):
this.
Yeah, like, how many hours isenough hours?
Well, you know what, though,like I think students make it
too difficult, like I just leftthe class and in the class one
of the students said how do youknow when to go deeper with a
client who has had extremetrauma in the past?
(45:03):
How do you know, how do you knowwhen, like when it's time to go
deeper, you know?
And I was like I mean you couldjust ask them, yeah, and they
were like what do you mean?
Like you could just say likehey, I know you have a deeply
traumatic past that's extremelytriggering, right, and like one,
one thing that I'm nervousabout is bringing that up and
(45:26):
bringing up all the triggers,and then you know you got to go,
like be with your family afterthese sessions, you know, and
like go back to work.
And so after these sessions,I'm nervous about it, like
lingering on, you know.
So, like, how are we going toknow within our relationship
when it's time to like maybe goa little deeper, you know, with
with our exploration, but that'son.
(45:48):
But I don't think you can dothat unless you approach the
work that you're doing from theposition of practicing.
You know what I mean, likewhere, where you, where you go
to it, and there's morecuriosity.
You know there's more like.
You know there's more like avocalized uncertainty, you know,
(46:12):
like there's more humility.
You know what I mean, withoutmaking yourself the center of
the universe, you know.
You know, in thinking that Ihave the power to hurt this
person, you know, because I dothink that that's a fear and I
(46:33):
just don't think we're thatimportant.
Oh, I think that's the hardestthing.
That's the hardest thing forstudents, you know, and even
some, like you know, beginningclinicians to understand.
Is that, like we are, we are not, we are not so important in in
(46:55):
our clients lives to be somelike to be the villain in their
story.
You, yeah, man, have you heardthat catchphrase before?
Oh for sure, dog, if you coulddo something horrible.
You know when you're takingadvantage of the power dynamic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, that'sbeyond the pale.
You could be the villain insomebody's story in that way,
(47:17):
you know.
But, like, if you are For wrongreflection, bro, bro, come on
From an inaccurate feeling state.
Bro, bro, if you are your mostgenuine self and you communicate
in an open, transparent, honest, genuine way Right, I mean with
(47:41):
the utmost respect for theclient and with the attempt at
bringing you closer to theclient.
If you communicate in that way,even if you make a wrong
reflection, even if you hurt theclient's feelings, even if you
bring up a deeply dramatic thing, like you can always
(48:01):
communicate the dramatic thing.
Like you can always communicateokay, so, like, I felt like
something when I made thatreflection.
You know, like, what did I?
What did I miss?
Or like, like, like you, likeyou said, like I want to go
deeper, but I'm not sure ifgoing deeper is a good time.
Like, right now is a good timefor you.
(48:21):
Yeah, and I, and I don't knowhow will I know?
Yeah, I don't, I don't know.
Yeah, like, help me understandwhen you feel comfortable to go
deeper.
You know and like let'scollaboratively work together to
, like, navigate this thing.
You know, I think if you cancommunicate in that genuine way,
don't you?
You can't do nothing wrong insession, dog, even if you make a
(48:44):
mistake.
Even if you make a mistake andI've done that so many times I
wait students with supervisees,with clients.
You know like you get a senseof a student.
You know and like what they mayneed.
You know, because you've donethis for years and years and
years, but you don't know thefull story.
So you take a chance and youtry to push them in a certain
(49:05):
way, you try to encourage them,you try to do something and it
backfires and you're, and youdon't know it.
But then you, you know what Imean, and so all you're doing is
like hey, man, I'm trying mybest, you know, I'm trying to
care in the best way that I can.
Yeah, man, you know what I mean.
Like I'm a human being, yeah,you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, and
(49:26):
you're going to see that.
You're going to see thathumanness reflected within our
relationship.
You know, yeah, like you'regoing to see it reflected in our
relationship.
Dog, that is so scary forstudents Terrifying, like it's
so scary for students.
It's why I teach the way that Iteach.
You know, in some ways trying toencourage students to swing for
the fences.
(49:47):
Yeah, man, now is the best timeto swing for the fences, like
when you're a student.
Let me do it.
I told my students that thismorning, you know like, please,
please, go in there and beyourself.
I jokingly tell my studentsthrow a pillow at the client.
You know like, obviously, don'tbe throwing pillows at clients
in there and be yourself.
I joke.
Any time I see them it's throwa pillow at the client.
Obviously, don't be throwingpillows at clients, be yourself
(50:10):
in session.
You got to figure out what thatis because when you graduate,
your family's going to bedependent on you earning an
income from being good attherapy.
Your family's going to earn,and some people are lucky enough
to work in an agency where theyjust get clients shoveled to
them.
Some people got to get out ofhere.
(50:31):
Some people got to get it outthe mud.
Some people are fighting thedirt and the only way they can
do that is if you're in session,being your genuine self, taking
cuts.
You can't do it any other way,taking cuts any other way.
Man, you can't go into itperfect.
You can't go into it healed,yeah, you can't go into it ready
.
Yeah, you can't go into it ontime.
(50:53):
You can't go into it with yourfamily, how you want it to be,
or somebody else's cloak on youknow somebody else's cloak of?
Well, you have to be this wayin session, going there dirty,
unshowered, filthy, sinning.
If you had a professor, and yourprofessor has never uttered
these words hey, man, this is mystyle, just chew it, chew on my
(51:18):
style and would you likeSwallow it?
If you feel like a version ofmy style fits for you, like,
swallow it like if you.
If you feel like a version ofmy style fits for you, take it
and take it.
If you, if you completelydisagree with the way that I
work and it's completelydifferent from how you show up
in relationships, then don'tworry about it.
This is, this is how I would doit.
(51:39):
This is what it would look likefor me.
Now, if you see somedifferences, you got to voice
what those differences are.
You got to vocalize it, so weall know how different you are
from my style.
That'll help me understand whoyou are.
I'd run away from somebody whosays this is how you do it, this
is how you should be.
(51:59):
I'd run away.
I'd be worried.
Look, barring, barring, the heyman.
If you're in session and you'retaking your shoes off and
you're putting your legsunderneath you, don't do that.
That ain't therapy, that ain'tit.
Yeah, hey man, therapy is safeand ain't comfortable.
We're talking.
We're talking about style, notprofessionalism, not skills,
(52:22):
knowledge, attitude, disposition.
We're talking about style.
You know what I mean.
But skills, knowledge, attitude, disposition.
We're talking about style.
You know what I mean.
But look, let me end with this,bro.
So I'm working with this.
I have this supervisee right,working with a couple.
Yeah, right, first couple,absolutely.
Your supervisee is seeing acouple First couple, yeah, first
time, crushed it, crushed it soproud.
(52:44):
You know he's so nervous and asI'm listening to it with him,
he's sitting in the chair.
You know I hear each one of theprofessors in his session yeah,
yeah, style, everything Bitingit dog and it works, everything
(53:08):
biting it dog and it works.
And and then, 30 minutes in, youstart seeing his little twist,
yeah, on some of the stuff thatwe said in class.
And I heard myself in there.
I heard me, and you know, andyou're just sitting there and,
dog, he's practicing yeah, man,he don't know what he's doing.
He's giving himself permissionto try some stuff out, yeah, you
know.
And then he comes and watchtape and he goes how is it,
(53:29):
that's what I like, that's whatI didn't like.
All right, I'm going back outthere, like, I mean, he takes a
Gatorade, you know just bottleof water, and then jumps back in
the session.
Yeah, man, the session it's like, dog, I don't know, I don't
know, I don't know.
Jt, that's it.
Anyway, all right, man, I gotto go.
(53:51):
Man, we're having some friendsover for cards.
Man, I'm going to play somespades on them more.
Y'all got a table that's strongenough for that.
I'll be slapping them.
I like to throw my hamstringsin that thing.
Yeah, kaplooey, kaplooey.
Yeah, hey, when is y'all springbreak?
(54:16):
The week before the last weekof class?
What kind of?
Don't make no sense, dog, don'tmake no sense, dog, don't make
no sense.
That's why Louisiana test wasso terrible.
Don't make no sense.
Side note we got a K-Cupaccredited.
We got the full K-Cupaccreditation.
(54:39):
I think they gave us 17 and ahalf years.
You're welcome, I put some.
Yeah, I think they gave us 17and a half years, bro.
You're welcome, bro, I put somestrings.
I put some strings, got y'all.
We got 22 and a half years.
Man, by the time we do theK-Crap report again, I mean,
shoot, I'll be 60.
Yeah, yeah, man, anyway, yeah,yeah, yeah, we're going to try
to be more consistent.
(55:00):
We won't, we won't Listen, wewon't.
This is what's going to happen.
We're going to do this atrandom.
Times are available and that'sit, you know, and we're going to
try not to do 30 minutes.
We could try to hit y'all withan hour, you know, and it's
going to happen randomly.
You know, we got.
(55:20):
That's where we are.
We have so much listener mailthat we have to go through.
Yeah, it's horrible man.
I don't know why y'all trust uswith y'all's development.
I'm just glad y'all stick withthis and listen.
This is real man.
We got kids, life, family, notme.
Please stop listening.
Jesus has kids until they.
He doesn't have kids until theyshow some athletic ability.
(55:40):
Please stop listening.
He doesn't have kids until theyshow some athletic ability.
Please stop listening.
Yeah, please stop.
Nah, man, seriously, man, thisis, this is yeah.
And I also like when people stopme and they're like hey, man,
when you going to cast again,hey, you know what you should
talk about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, keep itcoming.
Keep it coming, keep it coming.
Write it down, it's dope.
Gmailcom.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And also, uh, well, we won'tI'll be at aca.
(56:04):
Yeah, I'm not gonna be.
You gotta let them people knowyou're not gonna be there, bro.
Oh, I gotta let them know.
Yeah, oh, you gotta let themknow.
Yeah, you gotta.
It should be.
You should be getting thoseemail updates every.
Yeah, yeah, there's a littlething there.
You say like, hey, I'm notgonna be able to make it, you
know, uh, you know.
I mean, obviously I can tellpeople.
But yeah, people are going tobe bummed.
Yeah, I know.
But uh, yeah, I'll be.
(56:24):
I'll be there.
Um, throughout the wholeconference I'll be doing a um
two-hour writing um seminar I'mso sad to miss that man.
Two-hour writing seminar onthursday and then another
present self-care presentationon friday, on a saturday, and
then, I think, on friday I'll bedoing book signing.
Same thing on th Thursday,maybe Saturday too, but I got a
(56:45):
skedaddle after Friday.
I'm trying to get home.
I can't come because we gotDaddy Daughter Dance in the
middle of the conference.
Yeah, and you just never know,bro, you just never know.
Man With kids, and you know,like Shiloh was, or Valen was,
six weeks early, yeah, I meanliterally any day now, well,
(57:07):
it'll be six weeks by theconference, by the conference,
yeah, hey, man, you hear mychoo-choo.
I got to go, bro, is that yourtrain coming?
Yeah, that's my train coming.
That's all I know is 830.
Yeah, that's all I know is 830,bro, oh, I know it's 830.
Oh, man, all right, yeah, y'all.
Yeah, I got my bags packed.
I'm about to hop on that.
Hop on that.
I'm about to hop on that.
Right down to DFW Salado.
Here I come, here I come, hereI come, baby.
(57:30):
Here I come, baby.
It took me an hour and a half15-minute trip.
All right, we're going to tryto.
Probably won't be so until nexttime.
We'll see y'all when we seey'all.
See y'all when we see y'all.
Man, hey, next time y'all, hearfrom us.
(57:52):
I'm probably going to haveanother kid that probably going
to be a.
I don't know what happened.
It wasn't in the cards, itwasn't in the plan.
All right, man, hey, to anystudents listening to this get
off our backs, man, this trainis aggressive.
Yeah, bro, they letting youknow they coming, bro.
Yeah, all right, man, all right, let me stop the recording.
(58:14):
Oh, before I forget what To anystudents out there studying for
comps man, keep your head up,keep your head up, keep your
head up, man.
I got somebody taking it.
When's y'all's comps day?
I was just like March 24th orsomething.
We have two days.
Yeah, that's it March 24th.
That's it Right.
Yeah, after spring break for us, man.
Hey, if you're just studying, ifyou're just starting to study,
(58:36):
all hope, stop, stop.
Look, hey, man, you'd be bestto just do some meal preps.
Hey, who are you fooling?
Do some meal preps and meditate.
Hey, go in there.
Go in there.
You know what's the best thingto do.
(59:00):
If you haven't started studyingin January and you just started
studying this week, take thepractice test, stop.
Go to Amazon.
Go to Amazon and go to ACAwebsite and get yourself these
books.
Get yourself CounselorSelf-Care 2nd Edition.
Get yourself Developing yourClinical Skills.
What else?
What else should they get?
(59:20):
What else should they get?
Get yourself Surviving andThriving in your counselor
program.
Get yourself the counseloreducators guide.
Yep, uh-huh, yeah, get yourselfthose and read them.
Yeah, read, you know, as amatter of hug them, buy, buy, uh
, some for your friends too.
Yeah, yeah, buy some copies foryour friends too.
(59:41):
Yeah, don't, don't be a jerk.
Yeah, come on man.
Uh, you know, you think youthink you're the only one that
hadn't started studying yet.
Don't be a jerk, yeah, no, butseriously though, if you hadn't
started studying, uh, just takethe practice quiz and uh, and
may god bless the children.
No, you need to do some physicalpractice.
You need to sit down for twoand a half hours to four hours.
You need to practice.
(01:00:02):
You don't need to be studyingright now.
It's study time.
No, you need to be answeringquestions.
You need to be getting yourbody ready.
You need to be getting yourbody regulated.
You need to know when you gotto go to the bathroom.
You need to start clenching,because that hamstring them.
Glutes going to be tight.
Start answering questions outloud to prepare for that oral
(01:00:25):
exam.
Tight, yeah, tight, tight,tight, tight, yeah.
I got it All right, all right,all right, all right, all right,
all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all
right, all right, all right.
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