March 28, 2025 • 49 mins
In early 2025, we've seen egg prices skyrocket. The cause? Is it greed? Or is something more at play?
We'll take a look at history, and a lot of science, to try and find answers that make sense. What does it all mean for the homesteader that wants to raise backyard chickens?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0042682223002891
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095311922639042
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0042682223002891
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378113520310245
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.vetmic.2020.108886
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9967648/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9589142/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_virus
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7706930/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MT444183 (union county NC)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MT444352 (Anson county NC)
Be sure to visit The Two Acre Homestead YouTube channel and companion website thetwoacrehomestead.com. It's dedicated to The Two Acre Homestead Podcast.
Also check out the Sage Oak Homestead YouTube channel and companion website sageoakhomestead.com. It's designed to give you inspiration on cultivating and curating a beautiful homestead, homestead life, and learn to cook the things you grow on your homestead.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lisa (00:00):
The following podcast will be discussing vaccination
in animals, not in humans. Thisis our opinion and is not meant
for medical advice. Pleasefollow all laws and local
ordinances when raisingbackyard chickens. Welcome to
(00:27):
The Two Acre Homestead podcast.
Come along with us on ourjourney from a small suburban
homestead lifestyle
Kevin (00:34):
to our new lifestyle homesteading in the rural
countryside of Upper LowerMichigan.
Lisa (00:40):
We'll share with you our tips, tricks, successes, and
failures
Kevin (00:45):
from both our past suburban lifestyle to our new
rural lifestyle.
Kevin and Lisa (00:49):
All on The Two Acre Homestead podcast.
Kevin (01:03):
Welcome back. Well, this is gonna be an interesting
episode this week, and as manypeople know, the prices have
eggs have been crazy for a bit, and probably by the , um,
launching of this po thisparticular episode, the prices,
I guess, are supposed to comedown a bit, but in addition,
(01:25):
there have been a lot of newsreports about millions and
millions of chickens that havebeen called because of the
effects of the viruses we'regonna be talking about. So
let's get into it because thisis gonna be an interesting ,
um, discussion.
Lisa (01:43):
Yes, it is gonna be an interesting episode this week.
You know, our society as awhole is very polarized right
now , and I know there areseveral people who take the
position that avian bird flujust doesn't exist. Some people
feel that the, the , the eggcrisis that's going on right
(02:07):
now is being generated bygreed. And then there are some
who take the polar opposite,who believe there is actually a
bird flu that is going on, and, um, that the practices that
are being done need to be donein order to, for lack of better
(02:29):
term, neutralize the threat.
So, what I have done is I have,actually, I've really gone down
a rabbit hole when it comes toresearching this. I am not a
virologist, a virologist, I'mnot a scientist. Although if I
(02:51):
had to go back through schoolagain rather than studying
accounting, I think I probablywould've stuck with science
because I absolutely lovescience. Um, that being said, I
did take out some time to do alot of research. I pulled a lot
of published papers, and what Imean by published papers is
(03:16):
published scientific papers.
All of my reference work forthis particular podcast will be
in the show notes , um, will bein the description. You can
also read the same articlesthat I have read . So without
further ado , as of therecording of this podcast, the
(03:39):
current situation in January ,um, 2025 is that over 23
million birds in the US havebeen called because of bird
flu. Of that 23 million, 18.8million were egg layers , 2.2
(04:01):
million were broilers. And Istill can't find what happened
to the other 2 million. I amsuspecting that they might be
other bird fouls such asturkeys , um, uh, some other ,
some other type of bird fowl .
But , um, this, this is not agood thing. This is, you know,
(04:26):
obviously it is contributing tothe current prices that we see
in the grocery store where, youknow, a carton of egg eggs, you
know, like a 12 count of eggsis now what, $10 , um, per
carton. So this is not a goodthing.
Kevin (04:43):
And may , maybe just to ask, and I don't know if you
have the data on that, but outof the, what about almost 19
million , uh, egg layers thatwere called in January of 2025,
how significant is that as faras how many were in the
population?
Lisa (05:01):
Um, I don't have that exact number. Um, I'm sure it's
buried somewhere in myresearch. I do seem to remember
seeing it, but off of the topof my head, I do not know. But
it , and it's not here in mynotes.
Kevin (05:13):
Okay. But it was significant enough to be at
least part of the cause of theprices going up absolute 'cause
, you know, that's all , that'squite a few birds to take out
of the , um, population.
Lisa (05:25):
Out of the food system.
Yeah , out of the food system ,exactly. Yeah. And I do
remember that it wassignificantly higher than that,
which what was called inDecember of 2024, the month
prior. So January seems to havebeen a very big month , uh, for
bird flu calling . So it waspretty big. But I asked myself
(05:51):
when I was looking at this, Iasked myself, well, why, why is
it that, you know, they'recoming through and they're
killing all of these birdsbecause of the H five N one
bird influenza virus? Right?
Kevin (06:09):
To your point, many people have been saying, well,
it's greed,
Lisa (06:12):
Right? Some people say it's greed, but when you look
at it , normal farmingpractices are, if an animal is
sick, you isolate that animal.
And if it's a flock or herd andthey've been exposed, then you
keep watch over that flock andherd, and you keep the ones
(06:35):
that are resistant to thatparticular disease. That's
normal farming. I, I , I wouldsay, I would dare say that's
farming 1 0 1. That's likebasics. You don't just, you
know, just because one animalis sick, you don't just call
everybody. But as I dug deeper, um, the information that I
(06:58):
found was really interesting.
So bear with me, because inorder to know why we are where
we are today, it's important toknow the history of where we
have been. If you don't knowyour history, then you don't
know why you are where you arein this , um, in any situation
(07:22):
in life. So avian influenza ,um, that has been around for
quite some time , and it wasfirst identified by Eduardo
Parato , I think I'mpronouncing his name right, I'm
not sure. But , um, he firstdiscovered it , um, back in
(07:46):
1878. That's a long time ago.
1878 is when this man firstdiscovered avian influenza. It
differentiated, it wasdifferentiated from other
diseases that caused highmortality rates in birds. By
the time 1955 came around, itwas established that bird flu
(08:11):
was actually a virus and wasclosely related to human
influenza. Then you fastforward to 1972, and it became
evident that many subtypes ofavian flu were endemic and wild
bird population. What does thatmean, endemic? That means that
(08:34):
it's something that's alwaysthere. They, they, they always
have it. Um, it's always in thebird population, but it's in
the wild bird population . Sobetween 1959 and 1995 , there
were 15 recorded outbreaks ofHPA I influenza that stands for
(09:01):
highly pathogenic avianinfluenza. And that was in
poultry birds and the losses,they varied from just maybe
like a few on a single farm tomillions on some between 1996
and 2008 , that's when that wasrecorded. So those HPA
(09:25):
outbreaks and poultry, they'vebeen recorded at least 11
times, and four of thoseoutbreaks have resulted in
millions of birds being cold.
So the modern strain that wesee today of the H five N one ,
uh, bird flu was first detectedin infected birds back in 1996.
(09:53):
And human cases and death werefirst confirmed back in 1997 .
Okay? The virus, the H five None , it spreads most readily
between birds, though it'sresulted in a total of 887
(10:18):
confirmed human cases and 463confirmed deaths. Most of those
occurring between the years of2004 to 2015 known human
infections have only occurredas a result of direct contact
(10:43):
with infected birds. There'sbeen no observed human to human
transmission, although I dobelieve last year was the first
recorded human to humantransmission. Um, but we will
see the results of that. So letthose dates just let that
(11:08):
linger in the air for a minute.
2004 to 2000 to 2015 . Okay.
The reason is we're going tosee a convergence of another
pathic pathic , meaning apathogen that only is supposed
(11:30):
to be in animals. It's notsupposed to be in humans. So
it's pathic virus come intoplay in walks . Marek's disease
birds, if you are familiar withbirds, they are highly
(11:51):
susceptible to a disease calledMarek's. And that can infect a
bird within a few days afterhatching. It's an airborne
disease, and it infectssusceptible host through the
respiratory tract , the Marxdisease virus. It , um, it is
(12:13):
shed from the infected bird'sfeather follicle feather
follicles. So in other words,let's say you have one bird
who's infected with this mardisease. It flops its wings.
It's now shedding the virus.
We're all, if we've beenthrough covid, we know that
(12:34):
expression shedding the virus.
It's shedding the virus throughthe feather follicles, and any
other bird that's around isgoing to get this disease
through the airways. So that'swhy a lot of times you'll find
(12:54):
anytime that you get a birdfrom a hatchery, you'll notice
the setup of hatcheries havethe eggs that are being
incubated often either in adifferent building or in a
completely isolated part of abuilding, separated and
(13:17):
isolated from the flock that itcame, that the eggs came from,
because they're trying to avoidthis highly contagious marck
disease. Once the eggs arehatched within a day or two,
they are injected with thevaccine for this marck disease
(13:38):
. This has been going on since1969. The vaccination of
Marek's disease has been goingon since 1969. And the marck
Marek's disease vaccines canprevent the tumor growth. It
prevents death in the infectedbirds. But they're in the ,
(14:00):
the, the ones that weredeveloped in 1969, up to 2006 ,
those vaccines were ineffectiveagainst the viral shedding and
replication of the disease.
(14:21):
What is the replication? Theseare terms that I'm sure people
are like, what? And it's justexactly what it means. The
disease replicating itself,the, those vaccines could not
prevent that.
Kevin (14:35):
Well, for example, the common flu every year, it ,
there are mutations, and Idon't remember offhand, but
there are multiple variationsgoing on. So when they come out
with a flu vaccine, they haveto kind of go with what the
common ones, because it'smutated so many times, and they
(14:59):
try to mitigate that the bestthat they can.
Lisa (15:03):
So in 2006, it was discovered the Marek's disease,
vaccines don't prevent virusreplication and shedding of the
continuous virus led to theemergence of a more violent
disease. Ideally, thesuccessful vaccine would
(15:25):
decrease and or stop thereplication and shedding of the
disease. So in 2006 , enter theRNA vaccines . We all are
familiar with mRNA. Now, the min mRNA means that you're
(15:51):
telling the RNA in your DNA , you are telling it to
recognize certain proteins. Andthe M stands for the messenger.
So it's messaging, Hey, thebody, it's saying, Hey, these
particular, when you producethese proteins, when you see
(16:12):
this thing going on, I'm justoversimplifying it .
Kevin (16:16):
It's basically programming.
Lisa (16:17):
It's basic programming.
That's basically what they'redoing. And that is what all are
in a vaccines do. Normalvaccines that the ones prior
would actually inject you with.
Or not you, but 'cause we'renot talking about human
injection, but they wouldinject the dead virus into so
(16:40):
that dead Marek's virus intothese animals, and then let
their immune system figure itout. Well, now with the mRNA ,
now they're programming theirDNA to say, Hey, we're going to
produce this particular proteinwhen we see this thing happen
(17:02):
inside the body. So thatstarted in 2006 . So from 2006
, all the way up to 2018 , theyhave been using mRNA vaccines
in various different animals.
(17:23):
One of the other animals thatthey have been using these
vaccines in is pigs piglets andthe sows . And they have, like
I said, we will include all ofthe, the, the , um, scientific
studies in the show notes. Youcan go look at it yourself. But
(17:48):
they found that the RNA basedvaccines encoding antigenic
targets, are they, and I'mreading this verbatim promising
platform against infectiousdisease and cancer. The mRNA
platform retains a superiorsafety profile with no risk of
(18:10):
genome and integration, lack ofanti vector immunity and
transient expression. Well ,that's a mouthful. That's
another words. There's risk ,there's absolutely no risk. And
it's so good it might even beable to cure cancer. So they
(18:35):
kept on putzin' around withthese mRNA vaccines. And the
reason why we're taking, we'vetaken kind of a right hand turn
on the subject. We are talkingabout avian flu, but we're
talking about the mRNA vaccinesbecause what they started to
(18:58):
notice is that you, as timewent on, they started to notice
the , they meaning scientistsstarted to notice that since
they had so much success withMarek's disease, that, and with
the piglets that they couldstart using the mRNA vaccine
(19:21):
for bird flu. And they did. Sothey started doing that in 2018
. So fast forward to March of2020 . Do you remember what was
going on in the world at thattime? Covid? Yeah , while we
(19:42):
were all distracted with covid,there was something else that
was brewing in the scienceworld, in the zoological world,
and that was avian flu. Now, upto this point, there are
different forms of avian flu.
And do not misunderstand meover the years, there has
(20:07):
always been different mutationsof bird flu. That that's a
standard. It , it's, it's,there's always going to be some
sort of mutation. And that'swhy you hear people just simply
say bird flu. But you'll hearthe term H five n one or a term
(20:29):
I'm about to use H seven Nthree . What does the H and the
N mean to , just to take the ,the , the complex out it , and
just break this down . For thepeople who are listening , who
are listeners who are gardeners. If you're a gardener, you
know that there are plantfamilies, there's families of
(20:51):
plants. For example, theBrassica family, I'm using this
as an example. Within theBrassica family, there's
cauliflower, there's cabbage,but all of them are a part of
the same family of plant, whichis brassica . The H the H seven
(21:16):
H one is a family clad . Ifyou'll, it's called a clad, but
we'll just call it a family ora clan. They're all related.
Um, some are more potent, some, um, have more , uh, more
(21:37):
virility, I guess is what youcould say. I don't know if
that's a word, but I think thatis the word. Um, they're more
potent. They're , you can getinfected easier. Some are less.
But nonetheless, all of thesego to the avian influenza. So
going back to March of 2020,there are two counties .
(22:02):
There's Union County, and Ican't think of the other county
in North Carolina. There were,there were Turkey farms , um,
that the H seven in three avian, um, the H seven N three ,
(22:26):
which is a low pathogen avianinfluenza type a virus , had
affected 11 different Turkeyfarms in North Carolina and one
in South Carolina. Now, theydid the right thing in that
(22:51):
they, they took samples fromall of these different, and
they sent it to a, a placecalled Gen Bank . And that's
very well documented. Um, theywere able to figure out
intravenous , uh, pathology.
They indexed, and they selectedthe different L-P-A-I-V
(23:18):
strains. Um, and they were ableto document all of that. The
reason why what happened inNorth Carolina in 2020 is so
important, is very simply whatthey have documented
themselves. They said that thedata, these data support a
(23:41):
single source of the H seven None or N three being introduced
to the Turkey farms in NorthCarolina, spreading laterally
to other Turkey premises andmutating once to H-P-A-I-V
during replication in turkeysfrom a single barn on a Turkey
(24:04):
premises in South Carolina,with no further reassortment
with any other influenzastrains. And then it goes on to
say that although no wild birdorigin precursor had all eight
segments that corresponded tothe North Carolina and South
(24:26):
Carolina, H seven N threeviruses, the most probable
progenitor gene was identifiedfor each individual segment as
LPIV originating from wildwater waterfowl migrating along
the Mississippi flyaway. Thesefindings suggest that a
(24:47):
precursor virus most likelyemerged in the wild waterfowl
with subsequent introductioninto the poultry via occasional
virus spread between wildbirds. The genomes of the North
(25:07):
American LPIV appeared toreassort at a remarkably high
rate with no apparent patternin the gene Segment
Association. Lemme put thisinto English. The way I
understand this, likely, thisparticular version, this H
(25:32):
seven N three originated withbird foul somewhere in the
Mississippi Flyway. It gotsomehow transmitted to the barn
in South Carolina. And itmutated quickly because
(25:55):
remember, by this time what'shappening, birds are getting
vaccinated with mRNA vaccinesfor bird flu and for Mars
disease, they're getting thosevaccines. So now a normal, in
(26:17):
quotes , normal bird influenzais getting transmitted from the
wild, and it's being put in abarn situation where it can now
mutate and based on whatthey're saying , a high rate of
(26:37):
mutation . So in other words ,its quickly mutating into , so
, and it spread, it spread notjust local, but cross state
lines like, okay, like a virusknows it to obey state lines .
But the point is , is that it'sspread over a distance . Here
(27:02):
is where I am interjecting myopinion based on what I have
read. So here is my opinionbased on everything that I have
read. This, what happened in2020 with the H seven N three ,
(27:24):
it, this was a very contagiousstrain. But what's more
contagious is the H five N oneversion of bird flu. Remember,
it's in the same family . Andthat is documented. That is not
actually my opinion. Scientistsagree. It's more contagious.
(27:49):
And this version of H five None that is highly contagious,
and that has been mutated. It,it's mutated a lot because in
2022, H five N one existed, butit did not cross pathology into
(28:12):
human beings or other animals.
It strictly stayed as an avianBird flu. But now it has
mutated and people are able toget the bird flu. Are there a
lot of people No. Over thegrand scheme of things, since
(28:33):
people have been keeping record, I think it's been about eight
people who have actuallycontracted bird flu . I'm
talking about going all the wayback to 1969 , maybe even
further . Um , so there havebeen people who have contracted
it, but not at this rate, andnot at the rate that it has
(28:59):
crossed into other animals. Ithas not been known to do that
ever. And that's because it'smutating, it's changing and
it's changing so rapidly.
Kevin (29:13):
So at the outset, we mentioned nearly 19 million
broilers that had been called.
Why are they taking thatmeasure? What's, why is that
necessary?
Lisa (29:25):
Well, look, the, the reason is because the virus has
mutated and it's done it soquickly, The only way that they
can control it is by gettingrid of the animals that are
(29:46):
carrying the disease, themutation. If it was a normal
mutation, then things would begoing on, just as they always
have, since people have beenkeeping records of bird flow .
But because of the mutation ofthe H five N one and because of
(30:11):
the, the how quickly it's, it'smutating, the thing that
they're trying to do is just doaway with the entire flock so
that the virus itself with allof its mutation can go away.
And , and I shouldn't say thevirus itself, but the mutated,
(30:33):
the mutated version of thisvirus can go away. You're,
you're never gonna get rid ofbird flow . It's always gonna
be around. But this particularmutation that's been caused by
these mRNA vaccines, that'swhat it seems to me. This is
(30:54):
just my opinion, but it seemsto me what they're trying to
get rid of. Is it right, is itethical? No, I disagree with
that. I don't think it's right.
I don't think it's ethical, butthat's just my opinion. Um, and
that's as far as opinions areconcerned , that's as far as
I'm gonna venture.
Kevin (31:14):
And , and just to clarify too, maybe just, I had
this question when, whenlistening to this too, is, so
you mentioned, of course, thehistorical way of, of
protecting the rest of theflock. When you have one or two
injured, diseased, you separatethem. Right? But am I correct?
(31:36):
It sounds like the reason whythere's such a high number that
they said, okay, they're,they're gonna call this high
number , is because one, it'sthe sheer numbers because it's
a large population that'saffected with these strains.
And then the other is ittravels it through the air and
(32:00):
then it has jumped from animalto human.
Lisa (32:04):
Yeah. I mean, basically they've opened the Pandora's
box on all of this has beenopened.
Kevin (32:15):
Well, they're trying to play God right, by by mutate,
you know, creating thesevaccines that are gonna do
this, that and the other. Butthen they don't fully know what
they're doing. And then it yeah. Spreads and it gets worse,
Lisa (32:31):
Right? And it's, and , and I think out of all of the
things that they could havedone with the mRNA vaccines ,
birds probably were the worstbecause birds do the one thing
that we all know they do. Andthat is they travel and they
poop everywhere. And, you know,birds are great, don't get me
(32:52):
wrong. I love birds. But they,they're, they're highly mobile
and they're not the cleanest ofanimals. I don't mean that in a
mean way, but they're not.
Kevin (33:04):
It brings to mind too, that at least in America,
Americans eat quite a bit ofchicken every year.
Lisa (33:12):
They do. Um, I, I did some research on that, and I, I
don't think I have that in mynotes either, but I will say
that , um, I forgot what agencyit was. I think it was
A-U-S-D-A , um, that I hadresearched on. And chicken is
the most consumed here in theUnited States. Now, what's
(33:35):
interesting is that when youstart looking at other
countries global, when youstart looking at it from a
global perspective, chicken isthe most consumed meat
globally. And when you startgoing into countries that are,
(33:55):
you know, more advanced , um,the, what is it called? The
more
Kevin (34:00):
First world . First
Lisa (34:01):
First world countries.
Yeah. Okay. It's interestingwhen you start getting into
first world countries, yes,chicken is the most consumed
animal, but then you also havesomething else that's going on.
And that is, you've got alarger population. So you've
(34:23):
got more people eating thingslike chicken. You've got more
countries eating and consumingchicken. So what does that
mean? Well, the more people areconsuming these animal
products, the more productionhas to go up and higher. And
(34:43):
that means you have morechicken farms and, you know,
the backyard, the person who'sproducing their own chicken in
the backyard, so to speak,that's kind of dying out.
There's not as many peopleproducing their own meat, their
own eggs in their own backyardsas there were in 1969, for
(35:08):
example. So these egg farms arenow, there's fewer of them, but
they are large,
Kevin (35:18):
And that's global . Well , even Costco, even Costco has,
they, they produce hundreds ofthousands of chickens just so
they can sell 'em for fivebucks and Right, right . And ,
you know , they're about cookedhealthy and chicken pre cooked
. Yeah ,
Lisa (35:32):
Yeah. So, you know, and , and that's, that's to the point
that it's like, you know,these, these chicken farms,
they're, they're getting largerand larger and larger. So when
you have an outbreak like this,like this , um, the bird flu,
the , the chance of that birdflu mutating and changing into
(35:57):
something that it wasn'toriginally supposed to do
because of the pre-programmingthat goes into the mRNA
vaccines, now you have, now youhave a real problem. And that's
why they're calling the waythat they are , they're trying
to get rid of the problem onmass. And it's not, I, I can't
(36:21):
emphasize this enough, youknow, I know I look at the
stats, the majority of ourlisteners are here in the
United States, but there arecountries all over the world
who are having this problem.
Um, I think as of the recordingof this, the only country
that's not having this problem,which I think is kind of funny,
(36:43):
is Australia. And I thinkthat's just because of
geography. They're a little bitmore isolated. But , you know,
there's a lot of countries,countries in Africa, every
continent except for Australia.
Even Antarctica, I think it'sshown up somebody, I thought I
read something like that, that,you know, it's shown up there
(37:04):
as well. So, you know, andthat's pretty isolated. So I
don't know how Australia, I ,if you're from Australia and
you're listening to this,Natalie, I'm looking at you. I,
I don't know how you escapethis, but you know, like I
said, that's as of therecording of this. But , um,
(37:24):
but yeah, it's, it's a , it's ahuge, huge problem.
Kevin (37:29):
So to paraphrase, Joel, you know, what does this mean
for Joe and Sally Homesteader?
I know you said traditionally,it's interesting, traditionally
people in the last 60 someyears , seven , well, 80 some
years, I guess in sixties arenot raising chickens and so on.
(37:52):
However, we've talked aboutraising chickens. Mm-hmm
. A few times onthis podcast. We've been
raising chickens for 10 someyears, and we know, we've heard
that some people have had thatinterest getting into raising
chickens even recently becauseof these events, because of
(38:13):
prices going through the roof,they don't wanna spend $10 for
a dozen eggs or 15 for 18 orwhatever. It's been the highest
course. It's differenteverywhere. So what does this
mean for the typicalhomesteader, somebody who even
is gonna just raise a fewchickens, much less 30 or so ,
(38:35):
like we're gonna be doing thesenext few months. Um, what does
that mean for those people?
Because if you get yourchickens from a source like a
hatchery, they're gonna bevaccinated day one,
Lisa (38:51):
Day one. And you know, what I didn't mention is that
they're gonna be vaccinated dayone, and then later in the week
they'll be revaccinated,especially for the Meck
disease. Um, because the it forefficacy purposes, they, they
need to have that. So, youknow, if I were, if, if I
(39:14):
could, I, that's what I woulddo. If you're, especially if
you're just gonna raise a smallflock, I would go ahead and
hatch them out myself. I wouldtry to locate a farmer who's
willing to sell you fertilizedeggs from chickens that have
not been vaccinated. I wouldsay to the person who is
(39:35):
thinking about getting intobackyard chickens, it, first of
all, figure out what yourtolerance is. Um, because
looking at all of this data ,um, and all of the scientific
research, you know, we've beenconsuming and breeding chickens
(39:58):
that have been getting thismRNA vaccine, because that,
that's been going on for manyyears now, now , and it,
looking in hindsight, now, itmakes sense why when Covid
first came out, that theyimmediately went to the mRNA
(40:21):
vaccine because they hadalready been using it for many
years prior to that on poultry.
So, you know, if you're worriedabout consuming it and it
being, you know, in you, forexample, then you've likely, if
(40:41):
you've eaten out anytime , youknow, prior to this, you
probably have already consumedit. So I would just say, figure
out what your tolerance is. Ifyou don't want that in your
food system and you're gonna begrowing your own chickens, then
my advice to you is go find afarmer who is raising chickens
(41:06):
that has not been vaccinated inany way . Get fertilized eggs
from them and hatch out yourown eggs from there . That's
what I would suggest. If yourtolerance level is like, you
know what, I, I don't, I , Iwill raise my own chickens .
(41:29):
I'm do the best can then by allmeans . I , I would say
probably the best thing to dois to get either your chickens
from a local hatchery, a localfarm or a local store that you
(41:49):
trust that's in your area thatsells chicks, that doesn't buy
it from a big hatchery. And ,you know, the whole nine yards,
the key is local. Um, I wouldtry to get as local as I
possibly could because thebirds will be more conditioned
for your area, as opposed togoing onto a hatchery and
(42:11):
saying, oh, I'd like thesebirds and that bird and this
bird and that bird. You know,they may not do good in your
area. So you really kind ofhave to do your research, make
sure you have everything setup. The infrastructure, as we
say is very important. Knowwhat you're doing . These are
lives that you are dealing withand you wanna treat them
(42:35):
accordingly. They're youranimals. They are your
responsibility. You wanna makesure they're healthy, that
they've got a good environment,that they're taking in good
food. Because at the end of theday , what they ingest is what
you are ingesting. You are whatthey ate. Exactly. So with that
(42:58):
in mind, it just depends onyour tolerance. Just thinking
out loud, you know, theconclusion that I came to when
I did all of this and I waskind of putting all of this
together for, for the podcast,I really had to go for a long
walk in our , in our woods and just really think
(43:19):
about the implications and therepercussions of all of this. I
was actually nervous to do thispodcast because, you know, I
love science, but I'm not ascientist. Um, but you know,
just reading articles that havebeen published, science
(43:39):
articles that are available forthe public to read , um, it
just really shows that, like Isaid, the Pandora's box on all
of this has been opened and theplaying around with the, the
genes and the genetic sequenceand, and genomes and, and
(44:04):
changing viruses, all of that,we just, we don't know the
implications that there's notbeen enough time to study the
effects of what this has in thenatural world. Um, so the
(44:25):
conclusion that I came to formyself is that we are , are
going to have to homestead andfarm like we've never done
before. We're the firstgeneration. Do you realize that
we are the first generationthat is going to be dealing
(44:49):
with these sort of viruses thatmutate so rapidly and change so
ve and rapidly we're going tohave to homestead with
biosecurity in mind. Ourgrandparents didn't have to do
(45:11):
that, but we're the first. Soif you're thinking of producing
your own food, that issomething that you're really
going to have to think about asbiosecurity. How do you prevent
your animals from not justgetting sick from the regular
(45:35):
diseases that, you know, let'ssay goats get or, you know,
cattle or you know, birds aswe've discussed, but now cross
species viruses that are newthat we've never seen before.
So that is something that we'rereally going to have to think
(45:57):
long and hard about. So one ofthe things that I did is I
tried to figure out, have anyof the governments done
anything to prevent theseviruses from like mutating any
further, any outbreaks,anything like that? Again, I am
referring to as of therecording of this, because at
(46:22):
this point there is, at leastin the United States , um,
Biden has just left office andthere's new president,
president Trump. So there's achange in administration. So it
could be that things might geta little bit different, but I
do want to say this , um, thatthere is a funding that , uh,
(46:51):
has been done. It's thefunding, the Chemical
biological defense program.
President Biden asked for 81.7billion with a B billion
dollars over five years forpandemic preparedness . And
(47:14):
that is about a 10th of theexpected cost of the H five in
one pandemic , potentially that, so the risk of the H five N
one over the next decade, oreven the combined risk of other
(47:36):
PA pathogens , um, with thepandemic, it's probably, in
other words, it's probably notgonna be enough. So there's a
lot of funding that needs totake place , uh, for the
pandemic preparedness.
Pandora's box has already beenopen , so the cat's out of the
(47:58):
bag and it's running amok. So,you know, there's really not
much you or I can do about it.
Um, I don't even know that thegovernments can really do
anything about it, but it's ,this is really a case of the
Bible says that man is ruiningthe earth and far be it for me
(48:21):
to, I mean , the Lord says whatthe Lord says, but man ruining
the earth just seems like it's . It seems like it's a
little bit mild. It feels morelike he's just destroying the
earth. Um,
Kevin (48:36):
Yeah, it's, it's more now like it's man is ruining
the earth to the nth degree.
Lisa (48:44):
Yeah, exactly. On a level never seen before, but there
are some things that thegovernments are trying to do
and they do try to put somethings in place. So there is
that as well.
Kevin (48:59):
Alright , well thank you for taking this , uh,
scientific journey with us.
Yeah. And , um, as always, we'dlike to thank you for
supporting us on the two WeekerHomestead podcast. Mm-hmm
. And be sure tocheck out the show notes. We'll
have some more informationincluding , um, links to
(49:21):
articles and so on that supportwhat we've been talking about
today. So from all of us here,to all of you out there,
Lisa (49:28):
Happy homesteading
Kevin (49:30):
And stay safe out there.
The following podcast will be discussing vaccination
in animals, not in humans. Thisis our opinion and is not meant
for medical advice. Pleasefollow all laws and local
ordinances when raisingbackyard chickens. Welcome to
(00:27):
The Two Acre Homestead podcast.
Come along with us on ourjourney from a small suburban
homestead lifestyle
Kevin (00:34):
to our new lifestyle homesteading in the rural
countryside of Upper LowerMichigan.
Lisa (00:40):
We'll share with you our tips, tricks, successes, and
failures
Kevin (00:45):
from both our past suburban lifestyle to our new
rural lifestyle.
Kevin and Lisa (00:49):
All on The Two Acre Homestead podcast.
Kevin (01:03):
Welcome back. Well, this is gonna be an interesting
episode this week, and as manypeople know, the prices have
eggs have been crazy for a bit, and probably by the , um,
launching of this po thisparticular episode, the prices,
I guess, are supposed to comedown a bit, but in addition,
(01:25):
there have been a lot of newsreports about millions and
millions of chickens that havebeen called because of the
effects of the viruses we'regonna be talking about. So
let's get into it because thisis gonna be an interesting ,
um, discussion.
Lisa (01:43):
Yes, it is gonna be an interesting episode this week.
You know, our society as awhole is very polarized right
now , and I know there areseveral people who take the
position that avian bird flujust doesn't exist. Some people
feel that the, the , the eggcrisis that's going on right
(02:07):
now is being generated bygreed. And then there are some
who take the polar opposite,who believe there is actually a
bird flu that is going on, and, um, that the practices that
are being done need to be donein order to, for lack of better
(02:29):
term, neutralize the threat.
So, what I have done is I have,actually, I've really gone down
a rabbit hole when it comes toresearching this. I am not a
virologist, a virologist, I'mnot a scientist. Although if I
(02:51):
had to go back through schoolagain rather than studying
accounting, I think I probablywould've stuck with science
because I absolutely lovescience. Um, that being said, I
did take out some time to do alot of research. I pulled a lot
of published papers, and what Imean by published papers is
(03:16):
published scientific papers.
All of my reference work forthis particular podcast will be
in the show notes , um, will bein the description. You can
also read the same articlesthat I have read . So without
further ado , as of therecording of this podcast, the
(03:39):
current situation in January ,um, 2025 is that over 23
million birds in the US havebeen called because of bird
flu. Of that 23 million, 18.8million were egg layers , 2.2
(04:01):
million were broilers. And Istill can't find what happened
to the other 2 million. I amsuspecting that they might be
other bird fouls such asturkeys , um, uh, some other ,
some other type of bird fowl .
But , um, this, this is not agood thing. This is, you know,
(04:26):
obviously it is contributing tothe current prices that we see
in the grocery store where, youknow, a carton of egg eggs, you
know, like a 12 count of eggsis now what, $10 , um, per
carton. So this is not a goodthing.
Kevin (04:43):
And may , maybe just to ask, and I don't know if you
have the data on that, but outof the, what about almost 19
million , uh, egg layers thatwere called in January of 2025,
how significant is that as faras how many were in the
population?
Lisa (05:01):
Um, I don't have that exact number. Um, I'm sure it's
buried somewhere in myresearch. I do seem to remember
seeing it, but off of the topof my head, I do not know. But
it , and it's not here in mynotes.
Kevin (05:13):
Okay. But it was significant enough to be at
least part of the cause of theprices going up absolute 'cause
, you know, that's all , that'squite a few birds to take out
of the , um, population.
Lisa (05:25):
Out of the food system.
Yeah , out of the food system ,exactly. Yeah. And I do
remember that it wassignificantly higher than that,
which what was called inDecember of 2024, the month
prior. So January seems to havebeen a very big month , uh, for
bird flu calling . So it waspretty big. But I asked myself
(05:51):
when I was looking at this, Iasked myself, well, why, why is
it that, you know, they'recoming through and they're
killing all of these birdsbecause of the H five N one
bird influenza virus? Right?
Kevin (06:09):
To your point, many people have been saying, well,
it's greed,
Lisa (06:12):
Right? Some people say it's greed, but when you look
at it , normal farmingpractices are, if an animal is
sick, you isolate that animal.
And if it's a flock or herd andthey've been exposed, then you
keep watch over that flock andherd, and you keep the ones
(06:35):
that are resistant to thatparticular disease. That's
normal farming. I, I , I wouldsay, I would dare say that's
farming 1 0 1. That's likebasics. You don't just, you
know, just because one animalis sick, you don't just call
everybody. But as I dug deeper, um, the information that I
(06:58):
found was really interesting.
So bear with me, because inorder to know why we are where
we are today, it's important toknow the history of where we
have been. If you don't knowyour history, then you don't
know why you are where you arein this , um, in any situation
(07:22):
in life. So avian influenza ,um, that has been around for
quite some time , and it wasfirst identified by Eduardo
Parato , I think I'mpronouncing his name right, I'm
not sure. But , um, he firstdiscovered it , um, back in
(07:46):
1878. That's a long time ago.
1878 is when this man firstdiscovered avian influenza. It
differentiated, it wasdifferentiated from other
diseases that caused highmortality rates in birds. By
the time 1955 came around, itwas established that bird flu
(08:11):
was actually a virus and wasclosely related to human
influenza. Then you fastforward to 1972, and it became
evident that many subtypes ofavian flu were endemic and wild
bird population. What does thatmean, endemic? That means that
(08:34):
it's something that's alwaysthere. They, they, they always
have it. Um, it's always in thebird population, but it's in
the wild bird population . Sobetween 1959 and 1995 , there
were 15 recorded outbreaks ofHPA I influenza that stands for
(09:01):
highly pathogenic avianinfluenza. And that was in
poultry birds and the losses,they varied from just maybe
like a few on a single farm tomillions on some between 1996
and 2008 , that's when that wasrecorded. So those HPA
(09:25):
outbreaks and poultry, they'vebeen recorded at least 11
times, and four of thoseoutbreaks have resulted in
millions of birds being cold.
So the modern strain that wesee today of the H five N one ,
uh, bird flu was first detectedin infected birds back in 1996.
(09:53):
And human cases and death werefirst confirmed back in 1997 .
Okay? The virus, the H five None , it spreads most readily
between birds, though it'sresulted in a total of 887
(10:18):
confirmed human cases and 463confirmed deaths. Most of those
occurring between the years of2004 to 2015 known human
infections have only occurredas a result of direct contact
(10:43):
with infected birds. There'sbeen no observed human to human
transmission, although I dobelieve last year was the first
recorded human to humantransmission. Um, but we will
see the results of that. So letthose dates just let that
(11:08):
linger in the air for a minute.
2004 to 2000 to 2015 . Okay.
The reason is we're going tosee a convergence of another
pathic pathic , meaning apathogen that only is supposed
(11:30):
to be in animals. It's notsupposed to be in humans. So
it's pathic virus come intoplay in walks . Marek's disease
birds, if you are familiar withbirds, they are highly
(11:51):
susceptible to a disease calledMarek's. And that can infect a
bird within a few days afterhatching. It's an airborne
disease, and it infectssusceptible host through the
respiratory tract , the Marxdisease virus. It , um, it is
(12:13):
shed from the infected bird'sfeather follicle feather
follicles. So in other words,let's say you have one bird
who's infected with this mardisease. It flops its wings.
It's now shedding the virus.
We're all, if we've beenthrough covid, we know that
(12:34):
expression shedding the virus.
It's shedding the virus throughthe feather follicles, and any
other bird that's around isgoing to get this disease
through the airways. So that'swhy a lot of times you'll find
(12:54):
anytime that you get a birdfrom a hatchery, you'll notice
the setup of hatcheries havethe eggs that are being
incubated often either in adifferent building or in a
completely isolated part of abuilding, separated and
(13:17):
isolated from the flock that itcame, that the eggs came from,
because they're trying to avoidthis highly contagious marck
disease. Once the eggs arehatched within a day or two,
they are injected with thevaccine for this marck disease
(13:38):
. This has been going on since1969. The vaccination of
Marek's disease has been goingon since 1969. And the marck
Marek's disease vaccines canprevent the tumor growth. It
prevents death in the infectedbirds. But they're in the ,
(14:00):
the, the ones that weredeveloped in 1969, up to 2006 ,
those vaccines were ineffectiveagainst the viral shedding and
replication of the disease.
(14:21):
What is the replication? Theseare terms that I'm sure people
are like, what? And it's justexactly what it means. The
disease replicating itself,the, those vaccines could not
prevent that.
Kevin (14:35):
Well, for example, the common flu every year, it ,
there are mutations, and Idon't remember offhand, but
there are multiple variationsgoing on. So when they come out
with a flu vaccine, they haveto kind of go with what the
common ones, because it'smutated so many times, and they
(14:59):
try to mitigate that the bestthat they can.
Lisa (15:03):
So in 2006, it was discovered the Marek's disease,
vaccines don't prevent virusreplication and shedding of the
continuous virus led to theemergence of a more violent
disease. Ideally, thesuccessful vaccine would
(15:25):
decrease and or stop thereplication and shedding of the
disease. So in 2006 , enter theRNA vaccines . We all are
familiar with mRNA. Now, the min mRNA means that you're
(15:51):
telling the RNA in your DNA
recognize certain proteins. Andthe M stands for the messenger.
So it's messaging, Hey, thebody, it's saying, Hey, these
particular, when you producethese proteins, when you see
(16:12):
this thing going on, I'm justoversimplifying it .
Kevin (16:16):
It's basically programming.
Lisa (16:17):
It's basic programming.
That's basically what they'redoing. And that is what all are
in a vaccines do. Normalvaccines that the ones prior
would actually inject you with.
Or not you, but 'cause we'renot talking about human
injection, but they wouldinject the dead virus into so
(16:40):
that dead Marek's virus intothese animals, and then let
their immune system figure itout. Well, now with the mRNA ,
now they're programming theirDNA to say, Hey, we're going to
produce this particular proteinwhen we see this thing happen
(17:02):
inside the body. So thatstarted in 2006 . So from 2006
, all the way up to 2018 , theyhave been using mRNA vaccines
in various different animals.
(17:23):
One of the other animals thatthey have been using these
vaccines in is pigs piglets andthe sows . And they have, like
I said, we will include all ofthe, the, the , um, scientific
studies in the show notes. Youcan go look at it yourself. But
(17:48):
they found that the RNA basedvaccines encoding antigenic
targets, are they, and I'mreading this verbatim promising
platform against infectiousdisease and cancer. The mRNA
platform retains a superiorsafety profile with no risk of
(18:10):
genome and integration, lack ofanti vector immunity and
transient expression. Well ,that's a mouthful. That's
another words. There's risk ,there's absolutely no risk. And
it's so good it might even beable to cure cancer. So they
(18:35):
kept on putzin' around withthese mRNA vaccines. And the
reason why we're taking, we'vetaken kind of a right hand turn
on the subject. We are talkingabout avian flu, but we're
talking about the mRNA vaccinesbecause what they started to
(18:58):
notice is that you, as timewent on, they started to notice
the , they meaning scientistsstarted to notice that since
they had so much success withMarek's disease, that, and with
the piglets that they couldstart using the mRNA vaccine
(19:21):
for bird flu. And they did. Sothey started doing that in 2018
. So fast forward to March of2020 . Do you remember what was
going on in the world at thattime? Covid? Yeah , while we
(19:42):
were all distracted with covid,there was something else that
was brewing in the scienceworld, in the zoological world,
and that was avian flu. Now, upto this point, there are
different forms of avian flu.
And do not misunderstand meover the years, there has
(20:07):
always been different mutationsof bird flu. That that's a
standard. It , it's, it's,there's always going to be some
sort of mutation. And that'swhy you hear people just simply
say bird flu. But you'll hearthe term H five n one or a term
(20:29):
I'm about to use H seven Nthree . What does the H and the
N mean to , just to take the ,the , the complex out it , and
just break this down . For thepeople who are listening , who
are listeners who are gardeners. If you're a gardener, you
know that there are plantfamilies, there's families of
(20:51):
plants. For example, theBrassica family, I'm using this
as an example. Within theBrassica family, there's
cauliflower, there's cabbage,but all of them are a part of
the same family of plant, whichis brassica . The H the H seven
(21:16):
H one is a family clad . Ifyou'll, it's called a clad, but
we'll just call it a family ora clan. They're all related.
Um, some are more potent, some, um, have more , uh, more
(21:37):
virility, I guess is what youcould say. I don't know if
that's a word, but I think thatis the word. Um, they're more
potent. They're , you can getinfected easier. Some are less.
But nonetheless, all of thesego to the avian influenza. So
going back to March of 2020,there are two counties .
(22:02):
There's Union County, and Ican't think of the other county
in North Carolina. There were,there were Turkey farms , um,
that the H seven in three avian, um, the H seven N three ,
(22:26):
which is a low pathogen avianinfluenza type a virus , had
affected 11 different Turkeyfarms in North Carolina and one
in South Carolina. Now, theydid the right thing in that
(22:51):
they, they took samples fromall of these different, and
they sent it to a, a placecalled Gen Bank . And that's
very well documented. Um, theywere able to figure out
intravenous , uh, pathology.
They indexed, and they selectedthe different L-P-A-I-V
(23:18):
strains. Um, and they were ableto document all of that. The
reason why what happened inNorth Carolina in 2020 is so
important, is very simply whatthey have documented
themselves. They said that thedata, these data support a
(23:41):
single source of the H seven None or N three being introduced
to the Turkey farms in NorthCarolina, spreading laterally
to other Turkey premises andmutating once to H-P-A-I-V
during replication in turkeysfrom a single barn on a Turkey
(24:04):
premises in South Carolina,with no further reassortment
with any other influenzastrains. And then it goes on to
say that although no wild birdorigin precursor had all eight
segments that corresponded tothe North Carolina and South
(24:26):
Carolina, H seven N threeviruses, the most probable
progenitor gene was identifiedfor each individual segment as
LPIV originating from wildwater waterfowl migrating along
the Mississippi flyaway. Thesefindings suggest that a
(24:47):
precursor virus most likelyemerged in the wild waterfowl
with subsequent introductioninto the poultry via occasional
virus spread between wildbirds. The genomes of the North
(25:07):
American LPIV appeared toreassort at a remarkably high
rate with no apparent patternin the gene Segment
Association. Lemme put thisinto English. The way I
understand this, likely, thisparticular version, this H
(25:32):
seven N three originated withbird foul somewhere in the
Mississippi Flyway. It gotsomehow transmitted to the barn
in South Carolina. And itmutated quickly because
(25:55):
remember, by this time what'shappening, birds are getting
vaccinated with mRNA vaccinesfor bird flu and for Mars
disease, they're getting thosevaccines. So now a normal, in
(26:17):
quotes , normal bird influenzais getting transmitted from the
wild, and it's being put in abarn situation where it can now
mutate and based on whatthey're saying , a high rate of
(26:37):
mutation . So in other words ,its quickly mutating into , so
, and it spread, it spread notjust local, but cross state
lines like, okay, like a virusknows it to obey state lines .
But the point is , is that it'sspread over a distance . Here
(27:02):
is where I am interjecting myopinion based on what I have
read. So here is my opinionbased on everything that I have
read. This, what happened in2020 with the H seven N three ,
(27:24):
it, this was a very contagiousstrain. But what's more
contagious is the H five N oneversion of bird flu. Remember,
it's in the same family . Andthat is documented. That is not
actually my opinion. Scientistsagree. It's more contagious.
(27:49):
And this version of H five None that is highly contagious,
and that has been mutated. It,it's mutated a lot because in
2022, H five N one existed, butit did not cross pathology into
(28:12):
human beings or other animals.
It strictly stayed as an avianBird flu. But now it has
mutated and people are able toget the bird flu. Are there a
lot of people No. Over thegrand scheme of things, since
(28:33):
people have been keeping record, I think it's been about eight
people who have actuallycontracted bird flu . I'm
talking about going all the wayback to 1969 , maybe even
further . Um , so there havebeen people who have contracted
it, but not at this rate, andnot at the rate that it has
(28:59):
crossed into other animals. Ithas not been known to do that
ever. And that's because it'smutating, it's changing and
it's changing so rapidly.
Kevin (29:13):
So at the outset, we mentioned nearly 19 million
broilers that had been called.
Why are they taking thatmeasure? What's, why is that
necessary?
Lisa (29:25):
Well, look, the, the reason is because the virus has
mutated and it's done it soquickly, The only way that they
can control it is by gettingrid of the animals that are
(29:46):
carrying the disease, themutation. If it was a normal
mutation, then things would begoing on, just as they always
have, since people have beenkeeping records of bird flow .
But because of the mutation ofthe H five N one and because of
(30:11):
the, the how quickly it's, it'smutating, the thing that
they're trying to do is just doaway with the entire flock so
that the virus itself with allof its mutation can go away.
And , and I shouldn't say thevirus itself, but the mutated,
(30:33):
the mutated version of thisvirus can go away. You're,
you're never gonna get rid ofbird flow . It's always gonna
be around. But this particularmutation that's been caused by
these mRNA vaccines, that'swhat it seems to me. This is
(30:54):
just my opinion, but it seemsto me what they're trying to
get rid of. Is it right, is itethical? No, I disagree with
that. I don't think it's right.
I don't think it's ethical, butthat's just my opinion. Um, and
that's as far as opinions areconcerned , that's as far as
I'm gonna venture
Kevin (31:14):
And , and just to clarify too, maybe just, I had
this question when, whenlistening to this too, is, so
you mentioned, of course, thehistorical way of, of
protecting the rest of theflock. When you have one or two
injured, diseased, you separatethem. Right? But am I correct?
(31:36):
It sounds like the reason whythere's such a high number that
they said, okay, they're,they're gonna call this high
number , is because one, it'sthe sheer numbers because it's
a large population that'saffected with these strains.
And then the other is ittravels it through the air and
(32:00):
then it has jumped from animalto human.
Lisa (32:04):
Yeah. I mean, basically they've opened the Pandora's
box on all of this has beenopened.
Kevin (32:15):
Well, they're trying to play God right, by by mutate,
you know, creating thesevaccines that are gonna do
this, that and the other. Butthen they don't fully know what
they're doing. And then it yeah. Spreads and it gets worse,
Lisa (32:31):
Right? And it's, and , and I think out of all of the
things that they could havedone with the mRNA vaccines ,
birds probably were the worstbecause birds do the one thing
that we all know they do. Andthat is they travel and they
poop everywhere. And, you know,birds are great, don't get me
(32:52):
wrong. I love birds. But they,they're, they're highly mobile
and they're not the cleanest ofanimals. I don't mean that in a
mean way, but they're not.
Kevin (33:04):
It brings to mind too, that at least in America,
Americans eat quite a bit ofchicken every year.
Lisa (33:12):
They do. Um, I, I did some research on that, and I, I
don't think I have that in mynotes either, but I will say
that , um, I forgot what agencyit was. I think it was
A-U-S-D-A , um, that I hadresearched on. And chicken is
the most consumed here in theUnited States. Now, what's
(33:35):
interesting is that when youstart looking at other
countries global, when youstart looking at it from a
global perspective, chicken isthe most consumed meat
globally. And when you startgoing into countries that are,
(33:55):
you know, more advanced , um,the, what is it called? The
more
Kevin (34:00):
First world . First
Lisa (34:01):
First world countries.
Yeah. Okay. It's interestingwhen you start getting into
first world countries, yes,chicken is the most consumed
animal, but then you also havesomething else that's going on.
And that is, you've got alarger population. So you've
(34:23):
got more people eating thingslike chicken. You've got more
countries eating and consumingchicken. So what does that
mean? Well, the more people areconsuming these animal
products, the more productionhas to go up and higher. And
(34:43):
that means you have morechicken farms and, you know,
the backyard, the person who'sproducing their own chicken in
the backyard, so to speak,that's kind of dying out.
There's not as many peopleproducing their own meat, their
own eggs in their own backyardsas there were in 1969, for
(35:08):
example. So these egg farms arenow, there's fewer of them, but
they are large,
Kevin (35:18):
And that's global . Well , even Costco, even Costco has,
they, they produce hundreds ofthousands of chickens just so
they can sell 'em for fivebucks and Right, right . And ,
you know , they're about cookedhealthy and chicken pre cooked
. Yeah ,
Lisa (35:32):
Yeah. So, you know, and , and that's, that's to the point
that it's like, you know,these, these chicken farms,
they're, they're getting largerand larger and larger. So when
you have an outbreak like this,like this , um, the bird flu,
the , the chance of that birdflu mutating and changing into
(35:57):
something that it wasn'toriginally supposed to do
because of the pre-programmingthat goes into the mRNA
vaccines, now you have, now youhave a real problem. And that's
why they're calling the waythat they are , they're trying
to get rid of the problem onmass. And it's not, I, I can't
(36:21):
emphasize this enough, youknow, I know I look at the
stats, the majority of ourlisteners are here in the
United States, but there arecountries all over the world
who are having this problem.
Um, I think as of the recordingof this, the only country
that's not having this problem,which I think is kind of funny,
(36:43):
is Australia. And I thinkthat's just because of
geography. They're a little bitmore isolated. But , you know,
there's a lot of countries,countries in Africa, every
continent except for Australia.
Even Antarctica, I think it'sshown up somebody, I thought I
read something like that, that,you know, it's shown up there
(37:04):
as well. So, you know, andthat's pretty isolated. So I
don't know how Australia, I ,if you're from Australia and
you're listening to this,Natalie, I'm looking at you. I,
I don't know how you escapethis, but you know, like I
said, that's as of therecording of this. But , um,
(37:24):
but yeah, it's, it's a , it's ahuge, huge problem.
Kevin (37:29):
So to paraphrase, Joel, you know, what does this mean
for Joe and Sally Homesteader?
I know you said traditionally,it's interesting, traditionally
people in the last 60 someyears , seven , well, 80 some
years, I guess in sixties arenot raising chickens and so on.
(37:52):
However, we've talked aboutraising chickens. Mm-hmm
raising chickens for 10 someyears, and we know, we've heard
that some people have had thatinterest getting into raising
chickens even recently becauseof these events, because of
(38:13):
prices going through the roof,they don't wanna spend $10 for
a dozen eggs or 15 for 18 orwhatever. It's been the highest
course. It's differenteverywhere. So what does this
mean for the typicalhomesteader, somebody who even
is gonna just raise a fewchickens, much less 30 or so ,
(38:35):
like we're gonna be doing thesenext few months. Um, what does
that mean for those people?
Because if you get yourchickens from a source like a
hatchery, they're gonna bevaccinated day one,
Lisa (38:51):
Day one. And you know, what I didn't mention is that
they're gonna be vaccinated dayone, and then later in the week
they'll be revaccinated,especially for the Meck
disease. Um, because the it forefficacy purposes, they, they
need to have that. So, youknow, if I were, if, if I
(39:14):
could, I, that's what I woulddo. If you're, especially if
you're just gonna raise a smallflock, I would go ahead and
hatch them out myself. I wouldtry to locate a farmer who's
willing to sell you fertilizedeggs from chickens that have
not been vaccinated. I wouldsay to the person who is
(39:35):
thinking about getting intobackyard chickens, it, first of
all, figure out what yourtolerance is. Um, because
looking at all of this data ,um, and all of the scientific
research, you know, we've beenconsuming and breeding chickens
(39:58):
that have been getting thismRNA vaccine, because that,
that's been going on for manyyears now, now , and it,
looking in hindsight, now, itmakes sense why when Covid
first came out, that theyimmediately went to the mRNA
(40:21):
vaccine because they hadalready been using it for many
years prior to that on poultry.
So, you know, if you're worriedabout consuming it and it
being, you know, in you, forexample, then you've likely, if
(40:41):
you've eaten out anytime , youknow, prior to this, you
probably have already consumedit. So I would just say, figure
out what your tolerance is. Ifyou don't want that in your
food system and you're gonna begrowing your own chickens, then
my advice to you is go find afarmer who is raising chickens
(41:06):
that has not been vaccinated inany way . Get fertilized eggs
from them and hatch out yourown eggs from there . That's
what I would suggest. If yourtolerance level is like, you
know what, I, I don't, I , Iwill raise my own chickens .
(41:29):
I'm do the best can then by allmeans . I , I would say
probably the best thing to dois to get either your chickens
from a local hatchery, a localfarm or a local store that you
(41:49):
trust that's in your area thatsells chicks, that doesn't buy
it from a big hatchery. And ,you know, the whole nine yards,
the key is local. Um, I wouldtry to get as local as I
possibly could because thebirds will be more conditioned
for your area, as opposed togoing onto a hatchery and
(42:11):
saying, oh, I'd like thesebirds and that bird and this
bird and that bird. You know,they may not do good in your
area. So you really kind ofhave to do your research, make
sure you have everything setup. The infrastructure, as we
say is very important. Knowwhat you're doing . These are
lives that you are dealing withand you wanna treat them
(42:35):
accordingly. They're youranimals. They are your
responsibility. You wanna makesure they're healthy, that
they've got a good environment,that they're taking in good
food. Because at the end of theday , what they ingest is what
you are ingesting. You are whatthey ate. Exactly. So with that
(42:58):
in mind, it just depends onyour tolerance. Just thinking
out loud, you know, theconclusion that I came to when
I did all of this and I waskind of putting all of this
together for, for the podcast,I really had to go for a long
walk in our , in our woods
(43:19):
about the implications and therepercussions of all of this. I
was actually nervous to do thispodcast because, you know, I
love science, but I'm not ascientist. Um, but you know,
just reading articles that havebeen published, science
(43:39):
articles that are available forthe public to read , um, it
just really shows that, like Isaid, the Pandora's box on all
of this has been opened and theplaying around with the, the
genes and the genetic sequenceand, and genomes and, and
(44:04):
changing viruses, all of that,we just, we don't know the
implications that there's notbeen enough time to study the
effects of what this has in thenatural world. Um, so the
(44:25):
conclusion that I came to formyself is that we are , are
going to have to homestead andfarm like we've never done
before. We're the firstgeneration. Do you realize that
we are the first generationthat is going to be dealing
(44:49):
with these sort of viruses thatmutate so rapidly and change so
ve and rapidly we're going tohave to homestead with
biosecurity in mind. Ourgrandparents didn't have to do
(45:11):
that, but we're the first. Soif you're thinking of producing
your own food, that issomething that you're really
going to have to think about asbiosecurity. How do you prevent
your animals from not justgetting sick from the regular
(45:35):
diseases that, you know, let'ssay goats get or, you know,
cattle or you know, birds aswe've discussed, but now cross
species viruses that are newthat we've never seen before.
So that is something that we'rereally going to have to think
(45:57):
long and hard about. So one ofthe things that I did is I
tried to figure out, have anyof the governments done
anything to prevent theseviruses from like mutating any
further, any outbreaks,anything like that? Again, I am
referring to as of therecording of this, because at
(46:22):
this point there is, at leastin the United States , um,
Biden has just left office andthere's new president,
president Trump. So there's achange in administration. So it
could be that things might geta little bit different, but I
do want to say this , um, thatthere is a funding that , uh,
(46:51):
has been done. It's thefunding, the Chemical
biological defense program.
President Biden asked for 81.7billion with a B billion
dollars over five years forpandemic preparedness . And
(47:14):
that is about a 10th of theexpected cost of the H five in
one pandemic , potentially that, so the risk of the H five N
one over the next decade, oreven the combined risk of other
(47:36):
PA pathogens , um, with thepandemic, it's probably, in
other words, it's probably notgonna be enough. So there's a
lot of funding that needs totake place , uh, for the
pandemic preparedness.
Pandora's box has already beenopen , so the cat's out of the
(47:58):
bag and it's running amok. So,you know, there's really not
much you or I can do about it.
Um, I don't even know that thegovernments can really do
anything about it, but it's ,this is really a case of the
Bible says that man is ruiningthe earth and far be it for me
(48:21):
to, I mean , the Lord says whatthe Lord says, but man ruining
the earth just seems like it's
little bit mild. It feels morelike he's just destroying the
earth. Um,
Kevin (48:36):
Yeah, it's, it's more now like it's man is ruining
the earth to the nth degree.
Lisa (48:44):
Yeah, exactly. On a level never seen before, but there
are some things that thegovernments are trying to do
and they do try to put somethings in place. So there is
that as well.
Kevin (48:59):
Alright , well thank you for taking this , uh,
scientific journey with us.
Yeah. And , um, as always, we'dlike to thank you for
supporting us on the two WeekerHomestead podcast. Mm-hmm
have some more informationincluding , um, links to
(49:21):
articles and so on that supportwhat we've been talking about
today. So from all of us here,to all of you out there,
Lisa (49:28):
Happy homesteading
Kevin (49:30):
And stay safe out there.
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