Finding Support in Industry Organizations - with Attorney Liz Nielsen

Attorney Liz Nielsen has guided hundreds of families through the estate planning process, serving as their trusted advisor to bring peace of mind to their lives. She is the founder of Nielsen Law, a small estate planning law firm in Austin, Texas.  Liz is Board Certified in Estate Planning and Probate Law by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization. She practices exclusively in the areas of estate planning, special needs planning, and estate administration.

Liz is also President of the Travis County Women Lawyers Association. Giving back to the Austin community is very important to Liz. TCWLA is a nonprofit organization that is committed to supporting issues affecting women both as lawyers and as members of society.  Liz is also Board Vice Chair/President-Elect of AGE of Central Texas, a nonprofit organization that helps older adults and their caregivers thrive as they navigate the realities and opportunities of aging and caregiving.

In this episode, Liz shares some of the ways that industry organizations such as TCWLA are supporting working professionals and advancing opportunities and change. She also shares her insights on what to look for when considering whether to join an organization and how to get the most benefit from your participation. Lastly, Liz shares some insights into the work she does in helping individuals and families through estate planning. She busts some myths about who this planning applies to and what it entails. 

Episode Transcript

Erica D'Eramo (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the Two Piers podcast. I'm
your host Erica D'Eramo. Andtoday we have attorney Liz
Nielsen joining us. So Liz hasguided hundreds of families
through the estate planningprocess served as their trusted
advisor to bring peace of mindto their lives, and she is the
founder of Nielsen Law, a smallestate planning firm in Austin,
Texas. Liz is board certified inestate planning and probate Law

(00:28):
by the Texas Board of LegalSpecialization. She practices
exclusively in the areas ofstate planning, special needs
planning and estateadministration. Liz also happens
to be the president of TheTravis County Women's Lawyers
Association. Giving back to theAustin community is very
important to Liz and TCWA asnonprofit organization is

(00:50):
committed to supporting issuesaffecting women both as lawyers
and as members of society. Lizis also board vice chair,
President Elect of Age ofCentral Texas, a nonprofit
organization that helps olderadults and their caregivers
thrive as they navigate therealities and opportunities of
aging and caregiving. And ontoday's episode, we'll be

(01:11):
talking about all thingsprofessional organizations, how
they can help how they cansupport in a little bit as well
about what we should be thinkingabout in terms of estate
planning, and particularly forfolks who maybe didn't think
that they needed to considerthings like estate planning. So
we're really happy to have Lizon this episode to cover some of
the topics that we could learn abit more about.

(01:42):
Liz, thank you so much forjoining the episode. We're so
happy to have you.

Liz Nielsen (01:46):
Thanks, Erica. I'm really excited to be here.

Erica D'Eramo (01:49):
So this is kind of my classic question that I
asked everyone. But what wouldyou say your like origin story
is like, tell us about aboutyourself and how you got ended
up getting into this work?

Liz Nielsen (02:02):
Sure. So gosh, I don't think anybody grows up and
says, Gosh, I really want to bean estate planning and probate
lawyer when I grew up. You know,I certainly didn't, I had lots
of things that I wanted to be.
But I don't even think being alawyer was one of the things
that I thought about when I wasgrowing up. I grew up in the
suburbs of Chicago, when I wentto college, I really wanted to

(02:24):
study like environmentalscience, and wanted to be like a
forest ranger when I grew up.
But of course, I went to collegein New York City, the exact
opposite of where someone wouldgo if you wanted to be a forest
ranger. And I went to BarnardCollege, which was an all women
college that's associated withColumbia University. And while I

(02:47):
was there, I actually got reallyinto human rights. And so I
worked at an NGO at the UnitedNations with an internship
there. And this was back in theearly 2000s. And so I was really
able to participate in things atthe UN such as hearings about
the genocide in Darfur, whichwas really sad, but also

(03:07):
observed discussions with theCommission on the Status of
Women and talking about theMillennium Development Goals.
And so I got really into sort ofhuman rights. And as I was
looking at it, I also realized,gosh, we've got a lot of things
here in the United States thatwe could work on. And so I
decided to go to law school,mostly because I graduated with

(03:28):
degrees in psychology andreligion, with a concentration
in human rights. And really, theonly thing you can do with that
is go to graduate school. So Idecided to go to law school
thinking I would study likeconstitutional law and civil
rights law. And so I went to theUniversity of Texas School of
Law. And one of my first classesthere, I think, like most first

(03:52):
year law students wasconstitutional law. And I was
surprised to learn that thatturned out to not be my favorite
class. I really like contracts.
And I like tax law, way morethan my civil rights and
constitutional law classes. Sothat was very surprising to me
my first year. So then I took aclass on wills and estates my

(04:14):
second year, and at the sametime, I was taking that class,
my grandmother had beendiagnosed with dementia. And so
I was kind of learning the legalside, which is very much just
reading cases not looking at asingle Will or Trust, but then
also helping my family navigatemy grandmother's dementia and

(04:37):
their legal documents. And itwas really interesting seeing
firsthand just how much of adifference the planning can make
on a family. And my grandparentshad set up the super complicated
a state plan. And my grandfatherin the last years of his life,
he was really, I guess, stressedabout the plan. He didn't have

(04:58):
Understand it. And he didn'tunderstand sort of how the
components work together. And itseemed like his attorney just
hadn't ever described it to himin a way that he could
understand. And my grandfather,he was super smart. He was a PhD
physicist, but still like,couldn't understand it. So one
of my favorite things aboutdoing estate planning and

(05:18):
probate is that I'm actually,you know, really helping people.
And kind of an unusual way,because I don't think people
think about, oh, gosh, planningfor what's going to happen when
I'm incapacitated, or when Ipass away, you don't think about
that. It's like, really helping,but it is like, it's really
like, one of the few areas oflaw where I'm working with
people who aren't fighting witheach other. I'm working with
people who are just planning forthe future. And I just really, I

(05:41):
really love it. But at the sametime, I also try to stay very
involved in the community. Sothat's one of the reasons why I
ended up joining the TravisCounty Women Lawyers Association
when I was a young baby lawyer,and have continued to be
involved for for so many years.

(06:02):
Yeah,

Erica D'Eramo (06:03):
I think that one of the things that drew me to
reach out to you about being onthe podcast was I just watching
some of the materials that youshare has really helped me
understand that, like estateplanning, we think of as
something that rich people do,or something that only the super
privileged and wealthy do. AndI've been learning so much more

(06:25):
about how actually, for manypeople this is this is something
that a doesn't get talked about,especially in families that, you
know, maybe didn't have this, aspart of growing up, this was
never something that wasdiscussed. But then it can
affect really anyone, regardlessof you know, their their current

(06:46):
view on assets or, or wealth. SoI think that this is a message
that I did want to get out therein terms of, you know,
underserved communities,historically marginalized
communities that maybe don'teven or even just like first
generation, folks who are nowyou know, going to university in

(07:06):
establishing wealth themselvesthat they didn't grow up with a
vocabulary around this. And theywould never think, oh, I should
maybe talk to someone aboutestate planning, because the
language, even in and of itself,is state, it sounds like in my
brain, I think mansion, right?
Oh, I don't have a mansion. Idon't need to worry about that.
But tell us a little bit moreabout that. Like, what do you

(07:29):
encounter in terms offamiliarity with this concept?

Liz Nielsen (07:35):
Yeah, I mean, I think probably a lot of people
were like me, or I had reallyput no thought into estate
planning at all until I was inlaw school. And I think that's
true, I think, you know, there'sa lot of disparity in our
country. And between who's kindof talking about this and who's
not. And I think some of it isage, I think when you're younger

(07:55):
people think, Gosh, I don't needan estate plan, I don't need to
worry about those things. And,you know, it's not it's not
true. I mean, I think especiallyif you're younger, if you have
really any assets, like if youhave a bank account, or you have
a car, like you have somethingto think about, and you might
not need a big fancy estateplan, but there's certainly
planning that you need to do.
And I think as people get older,maybe they see their family

(08:20):
members pass away, or they see,you know, their friends pass
away, and they realize, gosh, itreally can end up being a huge
mess. If things are not plannedfor correctly. I actually had a
client, email me today, sort ofa little Client Testimonial, and
she started out with saying, Idon't think there's a

(08:42):
beneficiary or an executor outthere who says that they wish so
and so didn't have an updatedthe state plan. I think that
it's just one of those thingsthat really, you know, everybody
needs, and it's not so muchrelated to the size of the
estate.

Erica D'Eramo (09:01):
Yeah. I also think that we can't necessarily
predict when we will end upbeing involved in one of these
conversations or, you know,named as a person who is
suddenly taken care of, of thesetypes of things. Absolutely.

Liz Nielsen (09:15):
And I think, you know, a lot of times people
think of estate planning too, asjust being you know, your will
just what happens when you passaway. But a really big part of
estate planning is planning forincapacity. So like, you know,
who will help with your financesif you can't, who will make
medical decisions if you're in acoma? Do you want to be kept on
life support forever. A lot ofpeople are surprised the Terri

(09:36):
Schiavo case, which I rememberfrom when I was young, but she
was, you know, in a persistentvegetative state and the doctors
knew she wasn't going to recoverand there was a big fight
between her parents and herhusband about what she would
want. And a lot of times we werereally surprised she was only
like, 30 years old, like she wasreally young. And so I think,

(09:57):
realizing that gosh, you need todo this planning. You know, and
make some of these harddecisions, I think starting when
you're when you're pretty young.
Yeah,

Erica D'Eramo (10:06):
yeah, I remember that case. And then I also
remember the, you're wrong aboutepisode, the podcast episode
explaining it. And I think a lotof people, the media latched on
to that case, and people didn'treally understand all the
details behind it. But yeah,that's Okay. A lot of us can can
remember. So tell us a littlebit more about T CW LA, and what

(10:32):
brought you to either getinvolved there or seek them out
and a little bit about how thatrole has evolved for you?

Liz Nielsen (10:39):
Sure. So, you know, T CWA has been, you know, around
for a long time, just like a lotof I think women professional
organizations, it was started inthe 70s. You know, with just a
few women, there weren't a lotof women lawyers who are
practicing back then. But, youknow, of the starting members,
the founding members of theorganization, a lot of them

(11:01):
ended up becoming judges andreally having a big impact on
Texas legal history. And I don'tknow if everybody knows this to
Travis County is in Austin,Texas, which is the capital of
Texas. And so they really havebeen able to have a pretty big
effect on some of the laws andjust sort of have the culture of

(11:21):
how women are integrated intothe the legal community in in
Texas. And, you know, it startedout with they had to do a lot
of, you know, really boots onthe ground advocacy in Austin.
And this is I think, true. Maybein a lot of cities, we have a
lot of kind of, likeprofessional social clubs. We

(11:41):
have the UT club and headlinersclub and all these clubs, and
they are really a place wherepeople will go and have lunch
and do networking. And, youknow, for a long time, women
were not even allowed to go intothese clubs and TCL LA was
really involved with sort ofallowing women just to be

(12:04):
physically in the room.

Erica D'Eramo (12:07):
Not even that long ago, right? I mean, we're
no, no,

Liz Nielsen (12:09):
this is like in the 80s. Like, really? Not that long
ago. Right. And so, you know, Ithink back then, like, there was
just very clear discrimination,right? It was just, you saw it,
you know, in the courtroom, inthe law firms in the government,

(12:30):
like there was just very cleardiscrimination. And
organizations like the TravisCounty Women Lawyers
Association, were really able toadvocate for women. And I think
now, you know, things havechanged. Right? I think that the
discrimination is not asobvious. I guess, it's more like
micro aggressions against women.
For instance, I think one of thethings that I hear a lot, and

(12:53):
it's that, you know, if you walkinto the clerk's office, and
you're a woman, they might bemore likely to assume that
you're a paralegal than thatyou're a lawyer. I mean, those
things I get still true in a waythat, you know, it's small
things like I get called Honeyand Sweetie by older lawyers,
all the time. Goodness, which isI think, you know, it's strange.

(13:14):
And I think, I think by havinggroups like, you know, the
Travis County, Women LawyersAssociation, and these women,
professional organizations, youcan talk to other women and
realize, oh, my gosh, it's notjust me, I'm not crazy, like
these things are stillhappening, and then talk about,
Okay, how do you address them?
How do you stand up foryourself? In which situations?
Do you stand up for yourself?
And which situations, do younot? And I think, you know, kind

(13:35):
of navigating that, you know,constant maze of what, when do
you stand up for yourself? Andwhen do you not is something
that by talking to other women,it really helps, I think, yeah,
it helps to address thosesituations correctly. And, you
know, I'm a white woman, Ithink, if you're a woman of

(13:55):
color, it's even harder. And Ithink these groups like tcma are
even more important to have thatcommunity where you can have a
safe place to talk about it.

Erica D'Eramo (14:09):
And I think to the it's even beyond the like,
when do we speak up and when dowe not and I love that this is
not a given that we all justneed to clean our place and
speak our minds because we knowthat many of us particularly
women of color will suffer moreconsequences for that than than

(14:29):
people who are in the quote ingroup but also the most
effective ways to do that, aswell and like learning from what
other people have tried and whathas worked and what has been
effective for them and what hasnot been effective for them so
that we can hopefully pass someof those learnings around.

Liz Nielsen (14:46):
Yeah. You know, what causes someone to decide to
join a group like TC why so Ijoined it, you know, when I was
when I was a younger, muchyounger lawyer. And you know for
lots Two reasons. One, I had afriend who was really involved,
and she invited me. And I thinkthat really makes a big
difference when you have, youknow, somebody that you know,

(15:09):
already there and you're notlike just standing in the corner
of the room. I'm an introvert.
So going to, you know,networking events and things
like that. It's not my favoritething. And so that's one of the
I found really great about TCFBLA is that, you know, people,
if they see someone juststanding there, people will come
up and talk to them and ask him,How long have you been involved?
What kind of law do youpractice, like, we have a lot in

(15:30):
common. So we're able to kind ofquickly get to know people and
have them feel like they'rethere in the right place. And
they're with people that, youknow, they can be, you know,
authentic and real with. And Istayed involved, I think, you
know, for lots of reasons. But,you know, part of it was just
there was a lot of differenttypes of activities, that T

(15:52):
sail, who was doing, it wasn'tjust, you know, these networking
mixers, but it was also legaleducation, they have a book
club, they have a mentoringprogram, like a really formal
mentoring program that I thinkis just really an amazing
resource that not a lot ofpeople. Not a lot of women have
that opportunity to have a veryformal mentoring relationship

(16:14):
with a woman who has, you know,been there before. And I think
that's just an incrediblyhelpful program on both sides. I
think as a mentor, you learn alot to get as much out of it as
the mentee does. And so yeah,and I've just stayed involved.
And I've just been, I don'tknow, I just feels like a place

(16:37):
where I fit in where I'm able togrow, where I'm able to talk
about things that are hard, butalso just talk about, you know,
our kids, or, you know, how wefigure out how to make lunch
every day, whatever it is, it'shuman parts that yeah, the human
parts. Exactly.

Erica D'Eramo (16:57):
So one of the things that I love that you've
mentioned, is that you're anintrovert. And that's important
to me as a fellow introvert,because I think that sometimes
it can be quite daunting to signup to go to these events,
especially when they'recharacterized as mixers, or meet
and greets. Like, for me, thatcan be pretty challenging, even

(17:20):
though I'm not shy, but they canbe quite draining or just
daunting. So tell me a littlebit more about like, what advice
would you have for otherintroverts who maybe feel like
they could use some community,but the idea of going to a mixer
or even reaching out to anorganization is just a little
like one step too far?

Liz Nielsen (17:42):
Yeah, I mean, I think one thing that has really
worked for me is just findingother people to either go with
me or who are already part ofthe group. So that's really
good. Actually, I went to a newestate planning group a couple
of weeks ago. And I realizedthat a financial advisor that I

(18:02):
knew she was also going for thefirst time, so we arranged to,
you know, get there at the sametime and sit by each other. And
that made it just a lot easierfor me. But I think also like
going to groups that you thinkare going where there are going
to be people who are like mindedis helpful. So for me going to
an event with a group of estateplanning attorneys is usually a

(18:25):
whole lot easier than if I'mgonna go to like the family law
meet and greet, which aredivorce attorneys, which I don't
do it can be, might be good forme professionally, but not not
as comfortable of a space forme. Yeah, and then one of the
things that I do, and this iswhy I get involved in so many
organizations is actually like,getting involved help. So if I

(18:48):
am in charge of signing peoplein, right, if I have some kind
of a job at the event, I find ita lot easier for me. Yeah, so
yeah, I often try to sign signup to be like the person that
greets people when they come in,or I help arrange the food or
whatever it is, but it helps ifI have I have a job. Yeah,

Erica D'Eramo (19:09):
that that's really interesting, actually,
what an insight and it explainsto me why I am an introvert who
loves hosting dinner parties,because I'm always like, in the
kitchen, chopping veggies orwhatever, but I'm in the
vicinity of the action. Solisten, and kind of pop in as I
want. But I don't have to betalking the whole time. Yeah,

Liz Nielsen (19:27):
yeah. Yeah, for sure. I feel the same way. Yeah,

Erica D'Eramo (19:31):
yeah. So what, in terms of you know, you mentioned
Texas, I think for any of ourlisteners that aren't in Texas,
or aren't familiar with Texas,there's a lot of misconceptions.
Like I hear folks who aresurprised when I mentioned that,
you know, Houston is one of themost diverse cities in the
country, if not the mostdiversity in the country. So

(19:52):
what is the diversity look likeamongst the women's law
associations that you're a partof Yeah,

Liz Nielsen (20:00):
I mean, I think diversity is an issue in the
law, I think there's a lot ofthings that make it more
difficult from the verybeginning, even in law school
for people of color to besuccessful and to want to
graduate and then to want topractice law. I think it's
really, it's difficult. And Idon't know if it's getting

(20:23):
better or not. I know that justamongst the lawyers, I know,
there's very, very littlediversity. If I want to refer a
client to a estate planningattorney who speaks Spanish,
like I know, too, and there's,you know, hundreds of estate
planning attorneys in Austin.
And so I think that, thatdiversity is it's lacking. And I
think, you know, groups like TCwho probably can help with that

(20:46):
by providing that mentorshipthat will hopefully help people
stay in the profession. So Ithink a big problem is that
people will graduate from lawschool, even women, right that
women are way more than half ofall law school graduates right
now. But they're much morelikely to stop practicing, or to
never even enter the field atall after graduating law school.

(21:07):
And I think that's, it's a hugeproblem. And I don't I don't
know all of the solutions. But Ithink mentorship I think,
talking about it, I'm sure, youknow, having di committees at
law firms, helps to a certainextent. But I think it has to
start early. I think probablyeven in law school addressing

(21:28):
the issues. Yeah. And I don'tknow about how it is in Houston.
But in Austin, Austin is a verysegregated city. Maybe the one
of the most segregated cities, Ithink in the country. Yeah. And
I think that really affects theopportunities as well.

Erica D'Eramo (21:50):
Yeah, I, I don't know, in terms of the different
cities in Texas, what that lookslike. I think that has been my
own perception as well. Austinseems to have like the extremes
and a big gap in between, likethat disparity seems.

Liz Nielsen (22:10):
Yeah, I think it's surprising considering Austin's
so one of the most liberalcities in Texas.

Erica D'Eramo (22:16):
Yeah, yeah. So what would your advice be for
folks that are looking to join aprofessional network? Like, what
should they be considering whenthey're trying to find that
community?

Liz Nielsen (22:29):
Yeah, so we've talked about this a little bit
already. But I think finding,finding groups that seem
relevant to what you do and whatit is you're looking maybe to
learn more about, or what yourkind of what your interests are.
And then I'd also look at, like,kind of what are the types of
activities, I think some groupsare more, you know, more

(22:52):
networking, like, really, that'sthe focus or, you know, building
a client base, I think othersare more focused on education,
whether, you know, in the legalarea, there's a lot of
continuing legal education thatdifferent professional
organizations provide. And forsome people, that's very
important, and for others, it'snot as important. But then I

(23:16):
think third is just, you know,is the group welcoming, I think
that says a lot about the group.
If they are welcoming, theypeople come up and talk to you.
And when you go to an event. Ithink that that's really
important. I think that'ssomething to keep in mind, if
you're a part of a professionalorganization, right is to go and

(23:36):
welcome new members, or ifthere's a face, you don't
recognize, go up and say hi tosomebody, introduce them to
others in the group that youthink you know, it'd be good for
them to talk to you, I'm alwaystrying to connect people to, you
know, be like, oh, you know,focus on international law, so
and so Oh, so does that orwhatever, I think is really

(23:57):
helpful. And then, you know,asking people to come back, like
being really intentional aboutit. I think that really makes it
a lot more likely that someone'sgonna going to come back if they
know that they're invited back.
Yeah,

Erica D'Eramo (24:12):
that all that all makes a lot of sense. There is
this consistent kind of themethat I've been coming across
lately, and I've written aboutit, actually, extensively, I'll
probably do a podcast episode onit. But this idea that women
don't support other women, orthat we're all like in
competition with each other. Andso I sometimes wonder if the

(24:37):
idea of like a women'sprofessional group, how, like,
how do you counter thatnarrative in a women's
professional group? Or do youcome across anyone being
concerned about seeing women ascompetition, especially in a
field where you mentioned that,you know, pull through and is a

(24:58):
challenge and there's a lot ofattrition. And so, you know, the
fewer people you have of thatgroup, the more likely that they
sort of get pitted against eachother for the one spa or the,
you know, seen as a sort of amonolith, at least at least
that's what we're seeing. Yeah,

Liz Nielsen (25:17):
I mean, I think, yeah, I think that groups like T
CWA really can help combat thatto a certain extent. You know, I
think it very much used to be Ithink, in law, right. But gosh,
there's one spot for a woman atthe you know, as an equity
partner, or as a judge, youknow, in a certain type of

(25:37):
court. And I think that'schanged a lot. in Travis County,
for instance, we now have, wehave 12 civil district judges.
And in the last cycle, we nowhave 12 women, district judges,
and many of them are members ofTC why some of them have been

(25:58):
very, very active as well. And Ithink that's not a surprise. I
think it's this idea of liftingeverybody up as opposed to just
yourself. And, you know, I thinkthat you I think you mentioned
the idea of you no lifting theladder up, right, once you get
up to the top. And I thinkthat's changed, I think now, you
know, at least here in TravisCounty, or with the Travis

(26:22):
County Women LawyersAssociation, right. It's not
even a ladder, right. Like we'rehelping to build a staircase up.
And we're not all the way there.
Don't get me wrong. But I thinkI think by working together,
we're a lot more likely to getthere. Makes me think of I think
was Sandra Day O'Connor, whosaid no, maybe it was Ruth Bader
Ginsburg, who said that, whenwill there be enough women on

(26:46):
the Supreme Court? Not untilthere's nine. And I think it's
true, I think we're going to getthere in some areas faster than
others. But hopefully, groupslike Travis County, when Lawyers
Association, other women's groupacross the country will will
really lead the charge on that.

(27:10):
And that, you know, growth ofwomen in the very top positions
in their fields.

Erica D'Eramo (27:17):
I love that that quote. And I think it was Ruth
Bader Ginsburg, but I love itbecause like the follow up was
the follow up from theinterviewer was like, well,
don't you think that's too many?
Because that's, that's also notequitable. And her response was
essentially like, but you've hadnine men the whole time, and
nobody thought it wasinequitable. So this is, once we
have nine women and nobodyblinks an eye at it, then we'll

(27:40):
know that we've actuallyachieved equity, normalization
of just seeing women in thesespaces to the point that we
aren't shocked by by thenumbers. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so
switching gears a little bit,and maybe going back to sort of
where we started, what do youthink folks should be thinking
about in terms of, you know,planning, whether we call it

(28:03):
estate planning, planning forthe future? And, and just in
terms of some of the work thatyou do?

Liz Nielsen (28:11):
Yeah. So you know, I think that when people think
about estate planning, and wekind of mentioned this already,
right, there's sort of the twosides of it. There's the
incapacity planning side, andthen planning for what's going
to happen to your stuff when youpass away. And I think really
planning for both of thosesituations is really important.
So on the sort of incapacityplanning side, right, typically,

(28:33):
you'll have a document saying,like who would make financial
decisions for you, if youcouldn't, that's called a
financial power of attorney. Andit's super important. And
especially if you are a businessowner, making sure that there's
someone that can make decisionsfor the business if you can't,
so important, I worked on a casewhere a business owner had
become incapacitated, and like,they couldn't even figure out

(28:54):
how to make payroll for a prettybig company, because really,
nobody else had access to it. SoI think really thinking through
that, and making sure there wasa plan is super important. And
then you know, the medicaldocuments, we've talked about
this, but making sure you havenamed someone to make medical
decisions for you, if you can'tmake them for yourself is just

(29:15):
so important. And then so we dosome documents, like you know, a
document that says who a doctorcan talk to about your medical
condition, and usually you'llwant more than one person right
to be able to talk to thedoctor. Because, you know, in
families, there's usually morethan one person you might want
your partner and your parents oryour kids or your best friend or

(29:39):
all of those people and you canhave all of them. And I think
that's really important and thentalking about that the living
will that document that saysright if you if you're
incapacitated, it looks likeyou're not going to make it and
the doctor has to decide rightwhether or not to you know, keep
you on live so to support or tohave it removed. I think having
a document and not leaving thatup to your family. because it's

(30:00):
such a hard decision to make inthe moment. And so I think kind
of, if you can make thatdecision ahead of time, it
really takes a huge burden offof your family. And so that's
sort of the incapacity signside. And I think that a lot of
times that's overlooked, whenpeople think about what estate
planning is, but then there'salso right planning for what's

(30:21):
going to happen after you passaway, like who's going to be in
charge? I think that's a reallyimportant thing to think about.
But then also, you know, who doyou want your beneficiaries to
be? And I think we were talkingabout misconceptions. I think
one misconception is that peoplethink, gosh, if I don't have any
kids, you know, I'm not married,it's going to be really easy. I
don't even need a plan. But it'sactually the opposite. Planning

(30:43):
is a lot easier, if you knowwho's gonna get your stuff,
right. If it's really obvious,it's gonna go to my, my spouse,
and then it's gonna go to mykids like, that is so much
easier to plan than for someonewho's like, well, I support like
40 charities, maybe we can havea go to all of them. I mean,
that's, that's a lot harder,it's a lot harder, have a
conversation, I'm working with afamily right now with a pretty

(31:06):
sizable estate, and they don'thave any kids and, you know,
deciding what's going to happento it, or how it's going to go
to charities in a way that'sgonna be beneficial to the
charity, you know, leaving acharity $10 million, without any
instructions is usually not agreat idea. But people are also
really hesitant, they don't wantto talk to the charities, or

(31:28):
because they're worried that oh,my gosh, they're just going to
harass me for money for the restof my life. If I tell them, I'm
going to do this, and I workwith a lot of development
officers at, you know, differentnonprofits or universities. And
they assure me that if we tellthem, gosh, don't please do not
contact my clients, except forhelping them plan this one gift

(31:49):
after they passed away. Theypromised me that they will honor
that. And I do believe them onthat, because they have a lot of
motivation to make sure thatthey are going to get that gift
that we're talking about. But Ithink, yeah, it's planning for
people that that don't have kidsmuch, much harder. But even if

(32:10):
you do have kids, it's reallyimportant, of course, especially
if you have minor children, theycan't receive money out rights,
you need to think about that,and who you want to be in
charge, on that end, to namingguardianship documents for your
kids. And so deciding, you know,who do you want them to live
with? What do you want to raisethem if you couldn't do it
yourself? Really hard things tothink about. But just so

(32:31):
important, and truly just one ofthe biggest gifts that you can
give your family is a wellplanned estate. Yeah,

Erica D'Eramo (32:39):
I think something else that people don't
necessarily consider is if theyhave a family member who is
perhaps like receiving statesupport for disability or, you
know, the things become morecomplex, because you might end
up causing unintendedconsequences by just, you know,

(33:00):
handing over a large sum ofmoney to them. And it might
actually change their situationin a way that they hadn't
expected or planned in terms ofthe support or resources that
they're eligible for, at thatpoint. So,

Liz Nielsen (33:13):
yeah, I think that's a really good point, I do
a lot of planning for familiesthat have children with special
needs. And I think, planning ina smart way, it can make a huge
difference. Because even if, youknow, sometimes families think,
Gosh, I've got enough assetsthat we aren't going to have to
worry about governmentalbenefits like, gosh, you just

(33:33):
don't know. Because medicalneeds change for people. But
also, you know, sometimes moneydoesn't go quite as far as you
think it's going to go. Andyeah, I think that making sure
that you're doing that smartplanning is, it's just so
important. And it's not so hardto do it on the planning side,

(33:55):
but it's really hard to recreateit after someone's passed away.
And I didn't end up doing a lotof that kind of trying to figure
out Okay, how can we keep thischild on benefits that really
needs it for their health care?
When they received you know,$100,000 from their great aunt,
it's challenging, and thatreally, a little bit of planning
can avoid that situationaltogether?

Erica D'Eramo (34:19):
Yeah. So for folks who maybe feel like they
wouldn't know where to start,or, you know, they don't know
anyone who does this work or,you know, are worried about the
cost involved, the upfront andcost involved, like what
resources are available, orwhere would you point them to
start as a first step?

Liz Nielsen (34:38):
Sure. So you know, I think my life and we put out a
lot of really great content onthis. We have some videos on our
website or websites, estateplan. atx.com We have some
videos we have a really thoroughblog we've been blogging for I

(34:59):
don't know Six years twice aweek. So we have blogs on pretty
much any topic. And you cansearch through those and find
really almost anything that youwould want to. We have some
videos, we also on our LinkedIn,we post videos on a weekly
basis, that just covers some ofthe basics of estate planning.
And let's see what is myLinkedIn, it's Liz dash, Nielsen

(35:23):
dash attorney. And so there'ssome really great content there.
We are also working on apodcast. And so we'll have that
linked on our website and on ourLinkedIn as well. But then, sort
of in your local community, Ithink, looking for board
certified or whatever theversion of that in your state is

(35:45):
really important in Texas tobecome a board certified
attorney, it's, it's reallyhard. And so it really shows
it's an attorney who all theypractice is estate planning and
probate. And I think for mostpeople, if you can find someone
who's a specialist in the field,that's probably a better choice.
I'm certainly in some smallercommunities, that's not
possible. But if you live in arelatively large city, you

(36:06):
should be able to find somebodywho really focuses in this area
of law. And I think that canreally help get you started. And
then when you call, I would justask about pricing, we're really
transparent about it. And um, wedo most of our Estate Planning
on a flat price basis. So wehave a pretty good idea of what
it's going to be and we send outsort of a little handout that
just kind of goes over what arethe ranges? What can you expect?

(36:29):
And I think a lot of attorneysare able to do that as well. So
I think just asking questions.
When I'm working with a client,I love working with clients who
ask questions, as opposed toones who just kind of sit there
quietly and don't I think beingengaged in the process is going
to make it more fun for you, butalso make it so you really
understand, you know, what, whatdocuments you're putting

(36:50):
together and what you'reassigning at the end.

Erica D'Eramo (36:54):
So there are I have, like, I have to ask this
because I feel like it would beat the top of everybody's mind.
There are services out therewhere you can just like log on
and put your details in. Andthey'll spit out some documents
for you. Any thoughts that youwant to share on?

Liz Nielsen (37:10):
Yes,

Erica D'Eramo (37:11):
what you've seen?

Liz Nielsen (37:13):
Yeah, so you know, in addition to doing estate
planning, I also do probatewhich is where we're going
through that legal process aftersomeone passes away. And a lot
of times people have wills,which then we have to take to
the probate court and have ajudge declare, it's valid. And a
lot of times we get to probatewills that people have done on
their own. We call them the DIYwills, whether it is they've

(37:36):
gone on the internet and printedsomething off, or they, you
know, used to be people would goto the library and photocopy
them. So we see that sometimesor sometimes people will just
handwrite their wills, whichyou're allowed to do here in
Texas. And I will say that Ihave never dealt with a DIY will
that did not have some issuethat made it more difficult to

(37:58):
probate, whether it's not clearon who the beneficiary is. It
doesn't name the executor in thecorrect way here in Texas, we
have something calledindependent administration, but
you have to put that in yourwill if you want it and a lot of
the forms don't include that.
Or, you know, the biggest issueI see actually are just wills
not signed correctly, here inTexas, and I think in most

(38:20):
states is a very specific waythat you have to sign the will.
And if it's not done correctly,it's just that much harder to
probate and putting that muchmore stress on your family. So
yeah, I generally do notrecommend the DIY wills,
although, you know, if all I'mdoing is business development,
they're great, because then wecan make a lot more money on the

(38:42):
probate side.

Erica D'Eramo (38:47):
Well, yes. I appreciate that transparency.
But yes. Sounds like notsomething that you would
recommend for your loved ones.

Liz Nielsen (38:57):
It's really not.

Erica D'Eramo (39:00):
But I do think for folks who maybe feel like
reaching out to a human beingmight either be cost prohibitive
or that, you know, there areresources available. It sounds
like many of those might not bequite fit for purpose to the
extent that, you know, theywould do the job that is
intended. I

Liz Nielsen (39:18):
think that's right, I know that. And Harun asked, I
think a lot of communities,there's a lot of clinics for
people who truly can't affordestate planning, pro bono
clinics, and I'd say you know,if, if you qualify, I would
absolutely take advantage ofthat here. We have veterans
legal clinics where we will doestate planning for veterans. We
also have volunteer legalservices where they'll connect

(39:43):
you with another attorney withan attorney who's able to do
that planning and we also havesomething called the cam Law
Clinic, which does estateplanning for people who have
been diagnosed with cancer totake that one stress off of
them. And so I think a lot ofcommunities have these types of
resources and I would absolutelyI look forward, if that's
something that you need.

Erica D'Eramo (40:03):
Yeah, yeah, that's really great to know, to
kind of look out there forwhat's available versus trying
to take that on yourself, andmaybe not getting it right,
because you didn't have to gothrough all the law school. So I
really appreciate you sharingyour insights, both in terms of

(40:23):
professional organizations andprofessional organizations that
support women specifically. Andthen also in terms of planning
and what people can be thinkingabout as, as they're looking at
that and kind of debunking someof the myths there. What key
lessons would you want ourlisteners to take away today?
Did you have any final thoughts?

Liz Nielsen (40:43):
Gosh, I think you know, from our conversation, a
couple of things that kind ofcome to mind. One is, I think,
just, you know, lifting peopleup, if you're a minority in an
organization, just making sureyou're focused on, you know,
being collaborative, and helpinglift people up, as opposed to
kind of just on your own tryingto always get to the top, I

(41:05):
think we will always do betterwhen we do it together. I think
mentoring I think if you areyounger, seeking out a mentee,
if you're more experienced,being a mentor, maybe having
both types of relationships. Iknow I do, where I certainly do
a lot of mentoring, but I'm soappreciative to the people that

(41:28):
continue to mentor me. And Ithink seeking that out is great.
And whether you do it throughyou know, professional
organization like Travis CountyWomen Lawyers Association, or
you do it, you know, at thecompany where you work or just
kind of informally by reachingout, I, I often end up

(41:48):
mentoring, discuss people reachout and ask if I want to have
coffee to share with them aboutmy journey, and I'm able to, you
know, develop thoserelationships, which I really,
really like. And then I think onthe planning side, I think just,
you know, not being afraid ofestate planning. But instead,
you know, learning about itbefore you start on the process.

(42:12):
I find my clients that areeducated about estate planning
just tend to be better clientsfor me, but also they end up
having better estate plans atthe hand. So I think educating
yourself but then going to anattorney and having an attorney
on help with getting your planput together is a really it's

(42:33):
just really important. It's areally, as I said before, it's a
gift for your family when youwhen you do

Erica D'Eramo (42:39):
that. Yeah, rather than it being something
that you really should or haveto do this is something an
opportunity for you to make lifeeasier for people that you love.
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I again,really appreciate all the free
resources that you put out thereas well. So in the show notes,
and within the transcript willbe linking to both your LinkedIn

(43:03):
profile will link to your yourfirm's website. And so people
can go and find some of theresources that you've already
made available in terms ofvideos and blogs, and soon to be
a podcast which Welcome to thepodcasting world. And for anyone

(43:24):
that is looking for more of ourepisodes or the transcript for
this episode, you can find thaton our website at
twopiersconsulting.com. Andthanks again for joining us
today. Liz really appreciated.

Liz Nielsen (43:38):
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Erica for having
me. Yeah, and

Erica D'Eramo (43:42):
we look forward to seeing our listeners next
episode.