October 24, 2024 • 22 mins
In this episode of the Two Piers Podcast, host Erica D'Eramo sits down with Dr. Anthony Luévanos to explore the intersection of leadership, wellness, and sustainable success. Dr. Luévanos, a chiropractor and functional medicine expert, shares his insights into how leaders can prioritize their own health while supporting the well-being of their teams.
Tune in as Dr. Luévanos delves into:
- The vital connection between physical health and effective leadership
- How stress, burnout, and poor health can undermine performance at work and in life
- Simple, actionable steps leaders can take to foster a healthier, more balanced lifestyle
- Strategies for integrating wellness into leadership practices and corporate cultures
Whether you're a leader looking to improve your own health, a team member seeking better balance, or simply interested in the ways wellness impacts success, this episode is packed with valuable insights.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erica D'Eramo (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to the Two Piers
podcast. I'm your host, EricaD'Eramo. In today's episode,
we'll be exploring a topic thattouches every industry, wellness
and well being, among leadersand administrators. So joining
us today is Dr Luévanos, arecognized expert with extensive
experience and leadership acrossmultiple sectors. He's also a
(00:27):
Two Piers coach. We'll be divingdeep into the unique challenges
that leaders face in maintainingtheir wellness and how it might
differ across industries such asbusiness, construction,
healthcare and education.
(00:50):
Dr Luévanos, thank you for beinghere.
Dr. Luévanos (00:53):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Erica, I'm excited to
be part of this importantconversation,
Erica D'Eramo (00:57):
yeah. So let's, let's just start by setting some
definitions. So how would youdefine wellness and well being
for leaders, especially sinceyou know you've worked across
multiple industries. So whatdoes that mean in the context of
even executive leadership? Yeah,
Dr. Luévanos (01:15):
so sometimes these two terms are conflated, and
they can get a little confusingat times, but in the literature,
wellness refers to an activeprocess of making choices that
lead to optimal health and wellbeing. So it's often associated
with physical health, but it'smulti it's multi dimensional. So
it encompasses areas such asemotional, social, intellectual
(01:36):
and spiritual health, and it itemphasizes preventative health
behaviors and activities likeexercising, eating well and
managing stress. And so theconcept first originated with Dr
Dunn whenever he was researchingthis in 1959 in a work entitled
high level wellness. And so withhis work, that area of research
(01:59):
was established and defined alittle bit better. And so well
being didn't come into the foreuntil just right around the
1980s with diner, I think isdiner Larson and Griffin's work
and their satisfaction with lifescale and the Journal of
(02:21):
Personality assessment. And sothey define well being as a
state of being comfortable,happy, healthy. And so it's more
of a holistic concept thatincludes emotional,
psychological and socialdimensions that reflect how
individuals feel about theirlife as a whole. And it focuses
more on life satisfaction andsubjective happiness than just
(02:41):
the physical health portion oflife.
Erica D'Eramo (02:44):
So tell me a little bit more about like, how,
how we see the impacts ofwellness or well being on
leadership? Like, how does that?
How do we see that throughoutthe organization? Then what?
What impact does that have?
Dr. Luévanos (02:57):
Yeah, I'm glad you asked. Erica wellness for
leaders, involves a complexbalance of mental, emotional,
physical health and leadershiproles. The stakes are high and
the demands are relentless, butwellness is about making
intentional choices to maintainequilibrium. Whether you're a
CEO in business orsuperintendent in education,
(03:17):
wellness impacts the decisionmaking, team leadership and
personal performance,
Erica D'Eramo (03:23):
yeah, and I think we'll probably end up exploring
that a little bit more. But thisis not just about this
conversation that we're havingis not just about wellness on an
individual level or well beingon an individual level, but
almost the knock on effects thatit can have, especially at the
leadership level and throughoutthe organization?
Dr. Luévanos (03:43):
Oh, for sure. So I just you know, in healthcare,
for example, there's an addedlayer of emotional labor,
because you're responsible forthe well being of other
patients, staff and often thecommunity at large. But in
business, the pressure is moreabout financial performance and
corporate growth. Again, bothare intense in different ways,
and that intensity can take atoll if not manage properly.
Erica D'Eramo (04:05):
Yeah. So I mean, speaking of intensity, what do
you see as the primarychallenges that leaders face
when it comes to either managingor, you know, investing in their
own well being, especially in,say, some of these industries
that you've worked in, like,construction or education,
Dr. Luévanos (04:24):
yeah, my experience in construction, I
mean, I can think back long timeago, when I was just, you know,
trying to get that, that jobright out of high school, and I
had seen for the very firsttime, because I was, I was able
to work and tandem with aproject manager and I saw the
(04:44):
intensity of the job. So inconstruction, for instance,
leaders are constantly managingphysical demands, both for
themselves and their teams. It'sa high risk, high stress
environment where safety is apriority, but wellness often
gets overlooked. But on theother hand, in education,
especially at the.
Administrative level you'redealing with emotional and
mental fatigue. Just imagine thenumber of people that you're
constantly talking with everysingle day, balancing policy
(05:06):
decisions with day to day needs,of teachers, students, parents,
community members, school boardtrustees, you know, and every
other boss that you have that's,you know, kind of higher up on
that totem pole. And so bothindustries pose unique
challenges, but the commonthread is that wellness for
leaders often comes last on thelist.
Erica D'Eramo (05:27):
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, there's a
lot of I could sounds like a lotof stakeholder management. And
so while that might be aparticular challenge and impact
on wellness and well being ineducation, I'm sure that folks
who are listening probably canrelate to that in their own
organizations, if they're in acomplex organization that has a
(05:50):
lot of stakeholder management.
And my thing, you know, there'sthat like classic book, leaders
eat last and I think we do oftenglamorize this idea of self
sacrifice on behalf of theleader, but maybe not
recognizing what happens whenyou know the leader comes last
on the list in terms of takingcare of their own wellness and
(06:11):
well being. So you know, whathave you seen leaders do in
managing their own their ownwellness and well being, and
maybe, how has that differedacross industries?
Dr. Luévanos (06:25):
Yeah, I mean, that's that's a really good
question. It starts with makingwellness a non negotiable, right
part of your routine. You know,you wake up every morning. What
is it that you do? Leaders needto realize that they're more
effective leaders when they takecare of themselves. I'll just
cite just a couple of quickstudies in 2023 double A essay
(06:47):
study, school SuperintendentsAssociation survey that found
90% of Superintendents reporthigh levels of job related
stress with 44 44% of themconsidering leaving their role
within the next two to threeyears due to burnout, and so the
average tenure, it's not awonder that school
superintendents in urbandistricts, it's only 3.2 years.
(07:08):
So that reflects a high level ofpressure in that role. Health
challenges amongsuperintendents, and nearly 70%
of Superintendents reportsignificant work related stress
that impacts our physicalhealth, often leading to chronic
conditions such as hypertension,heart disease and sleep
disorders, and then with CEOs,according to the Harvard
(07:30):
Business Review, in 2021 60% ofCEOs report feeling isolated in
their roles, contributing toanxiety and depression. That
lack of peer support andleadership has been noted as a
significant driver of thatphenomenon. And so you know
you're when you think aboutthis. You know you're thinking
about mental health issues.
Another study 2020, study foundthat 72% of executives reported
(07:51):
some form of mental healthissue, with 50% experiencing
burnout. So the issue ofwellness and well being among
CEOs, superintendents,healthcare administrators,
construction project managers,is a critical one, and so again,
I stress it's important thatleaders make that step be
intentional. I recommendmindfulness practices, regular
(08:14):
physical activity, creatingboundaries between work and
personal life. Look, make it ateam effort. You know, find some
find some folks, some core folksin your organization, that you
can really start a wellnessprogram with and make that the
culture. You know, in industrieslike construction, I've seen
leaders who schedule stretchbreaks and encourage open
(08:35):
communication about mentalhealth and health care. Leaders
are now incorporating wellnessprograms into the broader
organizational culture. So it'simportant that we take hold of
this and this issue of mentalstress or mental health, and we
do something about it, physicalhealth and we do something about
it and be intentional. That'swhy you're in that leadership
(08:56):
position. Because you understandthe organization intimately. You
can feel it almost. You can feelthe organization out and see
that the fatigue and the stressis just heavy, and so it takes
you to take a step forward inthe right direction and be
intentional about leading theway for your folks.
Erica D'Eramo (09:15):
Yeah, I so a couple things come to mind here.
I we recently did a workshop atthe women offshore inclusion
summit, and my co facilitator,Tanya Tarr, who is actually an
executive health coach andbehavioral scientist and does a
lot of work in this area, shareda statistic about construction
teams that do a stretch breakbefore Engaging in work actually
(09:40):
have a lower incidence ofinjuries on site, which is
really interesting. And, I mean,I'm sure that there's a lot of
data around, you know, maybethat has to do with focus. Maybe
it has to do with becoming morelike present or in our bodies,
or, you know, who knows? Andthere's probably also an element
that she talks. A lot in termsof mirror neurons and a team
(10:03):
that does things together. So Ilove that you bring up doing
things together. And I thinkthat there are a lot of mandated
wellness programs as part ofinsurance companies that have
had pretty questionable successover time in terms of, like,
getting 10,000 steps in per day.
Or, you know, I think a lot ofthese things have been debunked
(10:23):
over time, but I think what canbe really impactful is the doing
it together, right? Like theseare the people that you spend a
lot of time with that you'rereliant upon and knowing that
you're not just a cog in themachine, but that you actually
want your colleague to be ableto, you know, see their
grandchildren, spend time withtheir with their, you know,
(10:44):
hanging out with their puppy,and actually not be winded at
the end of it, and to be able toget the rest that they need and
not carry that emotional loadhome at the end of the day. I
think definitely it's really,it's it's really impactful. And
I know that we've seen inoffshore environments, you know,
putting up photos of our lovedones and stuff like remembering
(11:08):
that context helps to keeppeople safer. So for sure,
coming together as humans, youknow, yeah,
Dr. Luévanos (11:16):
for sure. I mean, I mean it can you can you can
tie it to being a safety issue.
I mean, my thought is, you know,just thinking about the impact
of workload, you know, 2023health health leaders survey
reveal that 82% of healthcareadministrators are working
beyond their regular hours,exacerbating stress and burnout.
So just think about that on theoperating table, providing
healthcare, you know, trying tocommunicate in writing, and, you
(11:39):
know, in speech to folks, andhow many, how many doctors
honestly would would say, youknow, or admittedly say, how
many mistakes have been made andthen not caught, you know, by
them and they were caught byother people. So again, this is
a community effort, anorganizational community effort
(12:00):
to make wellness and well beinga topic of discussion and
something that you focus on andsomething that is is as
important as safety. And so Isay, start small. You don't need
to overhaul your entirelifestyle. I would say just five
minutes of mindfulness eachmorning can make a huge
(12:23):
difference. And it's alsoimportant to lead by example. So
you leaders out there of theseorganizations, again, you are
the person that will prioritizehealth for the organization, for
your team, and your teams willfeel empowered to do the same?
Erica D'Eramo (12:41):
Yeah, I think it's a really important part
too. And I this modeling elementtoo, because culture is not
about what an organization says,right? It is fundamentally about
what an organization does. AndI've shared this statistic on
the podcast before that for inthe energy industry, you know,
(13:02):
certainly process safetyincidents are correlated to
operational discipline measures,however, personal safety
incidents are correlated totrust in leadership. And what
does trust in leadership comefrom? It comes from leaders
saying and doing things that areconsistent. So what I think
(13:23):
folks may not understand is ifyou say that wellness and well
being is important, and youencourage people to say, take
their vacations or go for theirfull lunch break or go home at a
reasonable hour, but you are notdoing that as a leader, then a
undermines trust, but B, it'snot really going to engender the
true environment until you areliving it and breathing it
(13:45):
yourself. And I am guilty ofthat, like I I had times where,
you know, working offshore,where I would work way too late,
burn myself out, and my manager,who is essentially like the
captain of the ship, really hadto pull me aside and say, if
you're going to work late hours,you need to go do it from your
cabin, because I can't havepeople seeing you working late
(14:07):
hours while you're telling themto go get their rest. You're not
getting your rest. So if you'regoing to be a hypocrite, at
least do it behind closed doors,so you're not setting a bad
example. So So yeah, I think youbring up really good points. And
it doesn't need to be big,right? It can be, it can be
small. So, so, yeah, tell, tellme a little bit more about,
like, how organizations canshift the culture and make this
(14:30):
a priority.
Dr. Luévanos (14:31):
Yeah, culture is critical. I mean, that really is
that really, is it right?
Another study that I saw saidthat only 15% of construction
companies have formal wellnessprograms that specific,
specifically designed forleadership roles. So this is, I
mean, it is, it's, it's aCultural Foundation, an
organization when wellness andis integrated into the fabric of
(14:53):
the company. You know, leadersfeel more supported in
construction, for example, acompany that values not just.
Safety, but mental health cantransform the way its leaders
operate. Similarly in education,districts that emphasize
wellness for their leaders canfoster a healthier environment
for teachers and students. Incontrast, a culture that values
constant work without arrestleads to burnout at every level,
Erica D'Eramo (15:22):
yeah, and burnout is not just an ethically
terrible thing to put people inyour organization through. It's
also a very ineffective andexpensive thing to put your
organization through. So leadsto high turnover, leads to
mistakes, leads to poor morale,and ultimately, it's just not
sustainable. Yeah,
Dr. Luévanos (15:43):
I say invest.
Invest now, that way you're notpaying for it in the future. You
want to, want to, you want toprovide longevity in your
career, and you want to providelongevity in your employee work
pool, right? Because we allknow, we've all seen the the
stats it, you know, it takesmore money to employ newer folks
and train them and get them usedto the culture than it does just
(16:11):
to keep the current the currentemployee that you have. So it's
important. It's about leadershipbuy in. It's about culture
change. And so when leaders makewellness a priority, it trickles
down to the rest of theorganization. Initiatives like
wellness days, flexible workschedules, or simply encouraging
leaders to take time off, as youhad mentioned earlier, can have
(16:31):
a big impact in healthcare. It'salso about recognizing the
emotional burden and providingresources like counseling or
peer support for leaders or evencoaching. You know what? You
know, what we do, you know, callus. We reach out to us. It's so
important that you have somebodyon your side, somebody that can
help you think through things,somebody that can show you that
(16:52):
this can be managed at a youknow, in a way that wellness and
well being take center stage andproduce something very positive
in your life, not just for yourprofessional life, but for your
personal life.
Erica D'Eramo (17:07):
Yeah. I mean, I think there are folks who focus
specifically on, say, executivehealth, like, like the coach,
Tanya Tarr that we mentioned,that I mentioned earlier, but I
also find, you know, and I alsofind as well, that for those
leaders that we work with ascoaches so often, when I ask the
(17:30):
question, you know, if you werea house plant, how would you be
doing? And the answer is, like,terribly, because just the even
the base needs, right, likeMaslow's hierarchy, the base
needs of just hydration andsleep, and some of those base
needs are not being met. And Iknow that Tanya jokes about,
like, you know, wellness is notgreen smoothies. There's not
(17:53):
this is not something that youcan just as a consumer, just
like purchase the thing. Thereason, I think that working
with coaches as even, you know,as leaders or even just as
individual contributors, isbecause this is about habits,
right? This is about building inhabits so that it's a part of
your life and it change overtime. You know, it takes time.
(18:14):
So
Dr. Luévanos (18:15):
I was, I was just thinking, I don't mind as a
coach if you reach out forwellness, you know, for some
wellness help. Hey, yeah, talkabout, I can coach you for a
little bit, then we can work outright on,
Erica D'Eramo (18:26):
right? Because I guess you and I both share that
right, like you do. You dofitness coaching as well, and I
do, I, I'm a yoga teacher in my,you know, which tonight I'll be
doing. I'm teaching a yogaclass. And I think that this is,
you know, this really is like amindset piece as well, because
(18:46):
it's not an element of just tackon a couple to do items to your
already never ending to do list.
And maybe that's where some ofthese wellness initiatives that
are mandated by insurancecompanies, or by, you know, by
the company, where it's like,you have to get your 10,000
steps, you know, X amount oftimes per year, and you have to
attend these online webinars,and you have to fill out these
(19:11):
quizzes. And, you know, it comesto the end of the year, and
people are like, staying up allnight to finish all their their
like modules. You're like, isthis really impactful? It's not
about it's not about the greensmoothie. It's not about
checking an item on the to dolist. It's about, like,
embedding this, being aware. Howis it impacting you? How is it
impacting your team? So what areyour thoughts on that?
Dr. Luévanos (19:35):
Well, I think of it this way. It is about
leadership, taking, you know,taking an intentional approach
to wellness and well being. Youknow, at the end of the day,
we're looking at how leaderschange a culture, and what a
better way just think aboutthis, what a better way to
include some kind of yoga orexercise program or just
(19:56):
walking, you know, with anotheremployee or with a team. Uh, to
create community. I mean, it'ssomething else. It's, it's an
additional item to talk about atthe water cooler, where you can
generate connection within theorganization. And so we're
seeing, you know, we'redefinitely seeing a shift toward
a more holistic approach towellness, you know, with a
(20:17):
greater emphasis on mentalhealth and emotional
intelligence. In business, forexample, hybrid work models are
helping leaders find better worklife, balance and construction
and wearable tech is being usedto monitor health and safety and
education. We're seeing moreprofessional development folks
focused on emotional well being.
And so again, we're talkingabout a very simple step of
(20:38):
intentionality towards overallhealth, starting with with
yourself as a leader, and makingthis a generative act for the
entire organization, to be sureyou're creating a place where
you can feel that you're notonly getting professional
(21:01):
growth, but you're also gettingpersonal growth.
Erica D'Eramo (21:06):
Yeah, I think that's really, really powerful.
So you know, for the leaderslistening right now, what might
one just piece of advice be thatyou have that you would like to
share? Look,
Dr. Luévanos (21:18):
make time for yourself. Please, make time for
yourself, whether it's a fiveminute break or an hour of
exercise, your wellness, yourwell being, is the foundation of
your leadership. You can't takecare of others if you're running
on empty. Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo (21:33):
absolutely. Well, I really appreciate your
insights on this. I love all thedata and the research that you
always bring to the table. Soappreciate that. Thank you so
much for for coming to thepodcast again, one of our
favorite guests and favorite,you know, part of the team. So
it's really been a pleasure.
Thank you.
Dr. Luévanos (21:53):
Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Erica D'Eramo (21:55):
Yeah, and that wraps up today's episode. So
thanks for listening in to theTwo Piers podcast. We certainly
hope you found it valuable. Ifyou enjoyed our conversation,
make sure you subscribe. And youknow we always love to see a
review. You can follow us on thesocial medias. We're on
Facebook, Instagram, not reallydoing the Twitter these days,
(22:17):
but LinkedIn, for sure. And youcan always visit us at
twopiersconsulting.com where wehave more resources. You can
find a summary of this episodeand any links associated with
it. So thanks to Dr Luévanos forjoining us, and we'll see you
next time you
Hello, and welcome to the Two Piers
podcast. I'm your host, EricaD'Eramo. In today's episode,
we'll be exploring a topic thattouches every industry, wellness
and well being, among leadersand administrators. So joining
us today is Dr Luévanos, arecognized expert with extensive
experience and leadership acrossmultiple sectors. He's also a
(00:27):
Two Piers coach. We'll be divingdeep into the unique challenges
that leaders face in maintainingtheir wellness and how it might
differ across industries such asbusiness, construction,
healthcare and education.
(00:50):
Dr Luévanos, thank you for beinghere.
Dr. Luévanos (00:53):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Erica, I'm excited to
be part of this importantconversation,
Erica D'Eramo (00:57):
yeah. So let's, let's just start by setting some
definitions. So how would youdefine wellness and well being
for leaders, especially sinceyou know you've worked across
multiple industries. So whatdoes that mean in the context of
even executive leadership? Yeah,
Dr. Luévanos (01:15):
so sometimes these two terms are conflated, and
they can get a little confusingat times, but in the literature,
wellness refers to an activeprocess of making choices that
lead to optimal health and wellbeing. So it's often associated
with physical health, but it'smulti it's multi dimensional. So
it encompasses areas such asemotional, social, intellectual
(01:36):
and spiritual health, and it itemphasizes preventative health
behaviors and activities likeexercising, eating well and
managing stress. And so theconcept first originated with Dr
Dunn whenever he was researchingthis in 1959 in a work entitled
high level wellness. And so withhis work, that area of research
(01:59):
was established and defined alittle bit better. And so well
being didn't come into the foreuntil just right around the
1980s with diner, I think isdiner Larson and Griffin's work
and their satisfaction with lifescale and the Journal of
(02:21):
Personality assessment. And sothey define well being as a
state of being comfortable,happy, healthy. And so it's more
of a holistic concept thatincludes emotional,
psychological and socialdimensions that reflect how
individuals feel about theirlife as a whole. And it focuses
more on life satisfaction andsubjective happiness than just
(02:41):
the physical health portion oflife.
Erica D'Eramo (02:44):
So tell me a little bit more about like, how,
how we see the impacts ofwellness or well being on
leadership? Like, how does that?
How do we see that throughoutthe organization? Then what?
What impact does that have?
Dr. Luévanos (02:57):
Yeah, I'm glad you asked. Erica wellness for
leaders, involves a complexbalance of mental, emotional,
physical health and leadershiproles. The stakes are high and
the demands are relentless, butwellness is about making
intentional choices to maintainequilibrium. Whether you're a
CEO in business orsuperintendent in education,
(03:17):
wellness impacts the decisionmaking, team leadership and
personal performance,
Erica D'Eramo (03:23):
yeah, and I think we'll probably end up exploring
that a little bit more. But thisis not just about this
conversation that we're havingis not just about wellness on an
individual level or well beingon an individual level, but
almost the knock on effects thatit can have, especially at the
leadership level and throughoutthe organization?
Dr. Luévanos (03:43):
Oh, for sure. So I just you know, in healthcare,
for example, there's an addedlayer of emotional labor,
because you're responsible forthe well being of other
patients, staff and often thecommunity at large. But in
business, the pressure is moreabout financial performance and
corporate growth. Again, bothare intense in different ways,
and that intensity can take atoll if not manage properly.
Erica D'Eramo (04:05):
Yeah. So I mean, speaking of intensity, what do
you see as the primarychallenges that leaders face
when it comes to either managingor, you know, investing in their
own well being, especially in,say, some of these industries
that you've worked in, like,construction or education,
Dr. Luévanos (04:24):
yeah, my experience in construction, I
mean, I can think back long timeago, when I was just, you know,
trying to get that, that jobright out of high school, and I
had seen for the very firsttime, because I was, I was able
to work and tandem with aproject manager and I saw the
(04:44):
intensity of the job. So inconstruction, for instance,
leaders are constantly managingphysical demands, both for
themselves and their teams. It'sa high risk, high stress
environment where safety is apriority, but wellness often
gets overlooked. But on theother hand, in education,
especially at the.
Administrative level you'redealing with emotional and
mental fatigue. Just imagine thenumber of people that you're
constantly talking with everysingle day, balancing policy
(05:06):
decisions with day to day needs,of teachers, students, parents,
community members, school boardtrustees, you know, and every
other boss that you have that's,you know, kind of higher up on
that totem pole. And so bothindustries pose unique
challenges, but the commonthread is that wellness for
leaders often comes last on thelist.
Erica D'Eramo (05:27):
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, there's a
lot of I could sounds like a lotof stakeholder management. And
so while that might be aparticular challenge and impact
on wellness and well being ineducation, I'm sure that folks
who are listening probably canrelate to that in their own
organizations, if they're in acomplex organization that has a
(05:50):
lot of stakeholder management.
And my thing, you know, there'sthat like classic book, leaders
eat last and I think we do oftenglamorize this idea of self
sacrifice on behalf of theleader, but maybe not
recognizing what happens whenyou know the leader comes last
on the list in terms of takingcare of their own wellness and
(06:11):
well being. So you know, whathave you seen leaders do in
managing their own their ownwellness and well being, and
maybe, how has that differedacross industries?
Dr. Luévanos (06:25):
Yeah, I mean, that's that's a really good
question. It starts with makingwellness a non negotiable, right
part of your routine. You know,you wake up every morning. What
is it that you do? Leaders needto realize that they're more
effective leaders when they takecare of themselves. I'll just
cite just a couple of quickstudies in 2023 double A essay
(06:47):
study, school SuperintendentsAssociation survey that found
90% of Superintendents reporthigh levels of job related
stress with 44 44% of themconsidering leaving their role
within the next two to threeyears due to burnout, and so the
average tenure, it's not awonder that school
superintendents in urbandistricts, it's only 3.2 years.
(07:08):
So that reflects a high level ofpressure in that role. Health
challenges amongsuperintendents, and nearly 70%
of Superintendents reportsignificant work related stress
that impacts our physicalhealth, often leading to chronic
conditions such as hypertension,heart disease and sleep
disorders, and then with CEOs,according to the Harvard
(07:30):
Business Review, in 2021 60% ofCEOs report feeling isolated in
their roles, contributing toanxiety and depression. That
lack of peer support andleadership has been noted as a
significant driver of thatphenomenon. And so you know
you're when you think aboutthis. You know you're thinking
about mental health issues.
Another study 2020, study foundthat 72% of executives reported
(07:51):
some form of mental healthissue, with 50% experiencing
burnout. So the issue ofwellness and well being among
CEOs, superintendents,healthcare administrators,
construction project managers,is a critical one, and so again,
I stress it's important thatleaders make that step be
intentional. I recommendmindfulness practices, regular
(08:14):
physical activity, creatingboundaries between work and
personal life. Look, make it ateam effort. You know, find some
find some folks, some core folksin your organization, that you
can really start a wellnessprogram with and make that the
culture. You know, in industrieslike construction, I've seen
leaders who schedule stretchbreaks and encourage open
(08:35):
communication about mentalhealth and health care. Leaders
are now incorporating wellnessprograms into the broader
organizational culture. So it'simportant that we take hold of
this and this issue of mentalstress or mental health, and we
do something about it, physicalhealth and we do something about
it and be intentional. That'swhy you're in that leadership
(08:56):
position. Because you understandthe organization intimately. You
can feel it almost. You can feelthe organization out and see
that the fatigue and the stressis just heavy, and so it takes
you to take a step forward inthe right direction and be
intentional about leading theway for your folks.
Erica D'Eramo (09:15):
Yeah, I so a couple things come to mind here.
I we recently did a workshop atthe women offshore inclusion
summit, and my co facilitator,Tanya Tarr, who is actually an
executive health coach andbehavioral scientist and does a
lot of work in this area, shareda statistic about construction
teams that do a stretch breakbefore Engaging in work actually
(09:40):
have a lower incidence ofinjuries on site, which is
really interesting. And, I mean,I'm sure that there's a lot of
data around, you know, maybethat has to do with focus. Maybe
it has to do with becoming morelike present or in our bodies,
or, you know, who knows? Andthere's probably also an element
that she talks. A lot in termsof mirror neurons and a team
(10:03):
that does things together. So Ilove that you bring up doing
things together. And I thinkthat there are a lot of mandated
wellness programs as part ofinsurance companies that have
had pretty questionable successover time in terms of, like,
getting 10,000 steps in per day.
Or, you know, I think a lot ofthese things have been debunked
(10:23):
over time, but I think what canbe really impactful is the doing
it together, right? Like theseare the people that you spend a
lot of time with that you'rereliant upon and knowing that
you're not just a cog in themachine, but that you actually
want your colleague to be ableto, you know, see their
grandchildren, spend time withtheir with their, you know,
(10:44):
hanging out with their puppy,and actually not be winded at
the end of it, and to be able toget the rest that they need and
not carry that emotional loadhome at the end of the day. I
think definitely it's really,it's it's really impactful. And
I know that we've seen inoffshore environments, you know,
putting up photos of our lovedones and stuff like remembering
(11:08):
that context helps to keeppeople safer. So for sure,
coming together as humans, youknow, yeah,
Dr. Luévanos (11:16):
for sure. I mean, I mean it can you can you can
tie it to being a safety issue.
I mean, my thought is, you know,just thinking about the impact
of workload, you know, 2023health health leaders survey
reveal that 82% of healthcareadministrators are working
beyond their regular hours,exacerbating stress and burnout.
So just think about that on theoperating table, providing
healthcare, you know, trying tocommunicate in writing, and, you
(11:39):
know, in speech to folks, andhow many, how many doctors
honestly would would say, youknow, or admittedly say, how
many mistakes have been made andthen not caught, you know, by
them and they were caught byother people. So again, this is
a community effort, anorganizational community effort
(12:00):
to make wellness and well beinga topic of discussion and
something that you focus on andsomething that is is as
important as safety. And so Isay, start small. You don't need
to overhaul your entirelifestyle. I would say just five
minutes of mindfulness eachmorning can make a huge
(12:23):
difference. And it's alsoimportant to lead by example. So
you leaders out there of theseorganizations, again, you are
the person that will prioritizehealth for the organization, for
your team, and your teams willfeel empowered to do the same?
Erica D'Eramo (12:41):
Yeah, I think it's a really important part
too. And I this modeling elementtoo, because culture is not
about what an organization says,right? It is fundamentally about
what an organization does. AndI've shared this statistic on
the podcast before that for inthe energy industry, you know,
(13:02):
certainly process safetyincidents are correlated to
operational discipline measures,however, personal safety
incidents are correlated totrust in leadership. And what
does trust in leadership comefrom? It comes from leaders
saying and doing things that areconsistent. So what I think
(13:23):
folks may not understand is ifyou say that wellness and well
being is important, and youencourage people to say, take
their vacations or go for theirfull lunch break or go home at a
reasonable hour, but you are notdoing that as a leader, then a
undermines trust, but B, it'snot really going to engender the
true environment until you areliving it and breathing it
(13:45):
yourself. And I am guilty ofthat, like I I had times where,
you know, working offshore,where I would work way too late,
burn myself out, and my manager,who is essentially like the
captain of the ship, really hadto pull me aside and say, if
you're going to work late hours,you need to go do it from your
cabin, because I can't havepeople seeing you working late
(14:07):
hours while you're telling themto go get their rest. You're not
getting your rest. So if you'regoing to be a hypocrite, at
least do it behind closed doors,so you're not setting a bad
example. So So yeah, I think youbring up really good points. And
it doesn't need to be big,right? It can be, it can be
small. So, so, yeah, tell, tellme a little bit more about,
like, how organizations canshift the culture and make this
(14:30):
a priority.
Dr. Luévanos (14:31):
Yeah, culture is critical. I mean, that really is
that really, is it right?
Another study that I saw saidthat only 15% of construction
companies have formal wellnessprograms that specific,
specifically designed forleadership roles. So this is, I
mean, it is, it's, it's aCultural Foundation, an
organization when wellness andis integrated into the fabric of
(14:53):
the company. You know, leadersfeel more supported in
construction, for example, acompany that values not just.
Safety, but mental health cantransform the way its leaders
operate. Similarly in education,districts that emphasize
wellness for their leaders canfoster a healthier environment
for teachers and students. Incontrast, a culture that values
constant work without arrestleads to burnout at every level,
Erica D'Eramo (15:22):
yeah, and burnout is not just an ethically
terrible thing to put people inyour organization through. It's
also a very ineffective andexpensive thing to put your
organization through. So leadsto high turnover, leads to
mistakes, leads to poor morale,and ultimately, it's just not
sustainable. Yeah,
Dr. Luévanos (15:43):
I say invest.
Invest now, that way you're notpaying for it in the future. You
want to, want to, you want toprovide longevity in your
career, and you want to providelongevity in your employee work
pool, right? Because we allknow, we've all seen the the
stats it, you know, it takesmore money to employ newer folks
and train them and get them usedto the culture than it does just
(16:11):
to keep the current the currentemployee that you have. So it's
important. It's about leadershipbuy in. It's about culture
change. And so when leaders makewellness a priority, it trickles
down to the rest of theorganization. Initiatives like
wellness days, flexible workschedules, or simply encouraging
leaders to take time off, as youhad mentioned earlier, can have
(16:31):
a big impact in healthcare. It'salso about recognizing the
emotional burden and providingresources like counseling or
peer support for leaders or evencoaching. You know what? You
know, what we do, you know, callus. We reach out to us. It's so
important that you have somebodyon your side, somebody that can
help you think through things,somebody that can show you that
(16:52):
this can be managed at a youknow, in a way that wellness and
well being take center stage andproduce something very positive
in your life, not just for yourprofessional life, but for your
personal life.
Erica D'Eramo (17:07):
Yeah. I mean, I think there are folks who focus
specifically on, say, executivehealth, like, like the coach,
Tanya Tarr that we mentioned,that I mentioned earlier, but I
also find, you know, and I alsofind as well, that for those
leaders that we work with ascoaches so often, when I ask the
(17:30):
question, you know, if you werea house plant, how would you be
doing? And the answer is, like,terribly, because just the even
the base needs, right, likeMaslow's hierarchy, the base
needs of just hydration andsleep, and some of those base
needs are not being met. And Iknow that Tanya jokes about,
like, you know, wellness is notgreen smoothies. There's not
(17:53):
this is not something that youcan just as a consumer, just
like purchase the thing. Thereason, I think that working
with coaches as even, you know,as leaders or even just as
individual contributors, isbecause this is about habits,
right? This is about building inhabits so that it's a part of
your life and it change overtime. You know, it takes time.
(18:14):
So
Dr. Luévanos (18:15):
I was, I was just thinking, I don't mind as a
coach if you reach out forwellness, you know, for some
wellness help. Hey, yeah, talkabout, I can coach you for a
little bit, then we can work outright on,
Erica D'Eramo (18:26):
right? Because I guess you and I both share that
right, like you do. You dofitness coaching as well, and I
do, I, I'm a yoga teacher in my,you know, which tonight I'll be
doing. I'm teaching a yogaclass. And I think that this is,
you know, this really is like amindset piece as well, because
(18:46):
it's not an element of just tackon a couple to do items to your
already never ending to do list.
And maybe that's where some ofthese wellness initiatives that
are mandated by insurancecompanies, or by, you know, by
the company, where it's like,you have to get your 10,000
steps, you know, X amount oftimes per year, and you have to
attend these online webinars,and you have to fill out these
(19:11):
quizzes. And, you know, it comesto the end of the year, and
people are like, staying up allnight to finish all their their
like modules. You're like, isthis really impactful? It's not
about it's not about the greensmoothie. It's not about
checking an item on the to dolist. It's about, like,
embedding this, being aware. Howis it impacting you? How is it
impacting your team? So what areyour thoughts on that?
Dr. Luévanos (19:35):
Well, I think of it this way. It is about
leadership, taking, you know,taking an intentional approach
to wellness and well being. Youknow, at the end of the day,
we're looking at how leaderschange a culture, and what a
better way just think aboutthis, what a better way to
include some kind of yoga orexercise program or just
(19:56):
walking, you know, with anotheremployee or with a team. Uh, to
create community. I mean, it'ssomething else. It's, it's an
additional item to talk about atthe water cooler, where you can
generate connection within theorganization. And so we're
seeing, you know, we'redefinitely seeing a shift toward
a more holistic approach towellness, you know, with a
(20:17):
greater emphasis on mentalhealth and emotional
intelligence. In business, forexample, hybrid work models are
helping leaders find better worklife, balance and construction
and wearable tech is being usedto monitor health and safety and
education. We're seeing moreprofessional development folks
focused on emotional well being.
And so again, we're talkingabout a very simple step of
(20:38):
intentionality towards overallhealth, starting with with
yourself as a leader, and makingthis a generative act for the
entire organization, to be sureyou're creating a place where
you can feel that you're notonly getting professional
(21:01):
growth, but you're also gettingpersonal growth.
Erica D'Eramo (21:06):
Yeah, I think that's really, really powerful.
So you know, for the leaderslistening right now, what might
one just piece of advice be thatyou have that you would like to
share? Look,
Dr. Luévanos (21:18):
make time for yourself. Please, make time for
yourself, whether it's a fiveminute break or an hour of
exercise, your wellness, yourwell being, is the foundation of
your leadership. You can't takecare of others if you're running
on empty. Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo (21:33):
absolutely. Well, I really appreciate your
insights on this. I love all thedata and the research that you
always bring to the table. Soappreciate that. Thank you so
much for for coming to thepodcast again, one of our
favorite guests and favorite,you know, part of the team. So
it's really been a pleasure.
Thank you.
Dr. Luévanos (21:53):
Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Erica D'Eramo (21:55):
Yeah, and that wraps up today's episode. So
thanks for listening in to theTwo Piers podcast. We certainly
hope you found it valuable. Ifyou enjoyed our conversation,
make sure you subscribe. And youknow we always love to see a
review. You can follow us on thesocial medias. We're on
Facebook, Instagram, not reallydoing the Twitter these days,
(22:17):
but LinkedIn, for sure. And youcan always visit us at
twopiersconsulting.com where wehave more resources. You can
find a summary of this episodeand any links associated with
it. So thanks to Dr Luévanos forjoining us, and we'll see you
next time you
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