Reconstructing Inclusion: Amri B. Johnson on Systems-Level DEI and Interdependence

Reconstructing Inclusion: Amri B. Johnson on Systems-Level DEI and Interdependence

Episode Summary:
In this episode of the Two Piers Podcast, Erica D’Eramo is joined by Amri B. Johnson—epidemiologist, social capitalist, and CEO of Inclusion Wins—for a dynamic conversation on what it takes to build truly inclusive systems in organizations.

Drawing on his experience across public health, business strategy, and organizational design, Amri shares why many DEI efforts fall short—and how we can reconstruct them to be accessible, actionable, and sustainable. From the limits of representation to the power of interdependence, this episode offers a refreshing, systems-oriented perspective on inclusion.

What We Talk About:

• Amri’s personal and professional journey—from Topeka to Switzerland
• Interdependence as a foundational DEI principle
• Why inclusion must align with organizational purpose
• A case study on gender diversity and relational fitness in tech
• The difference between treatment vs. prevention in DEI
• How upstream approaches drive long-term culture change
• Why engaging with dissenters strengthens—not weakens—DEI efforts
• Practical ways to make DEI part of your organizational DNA

Resources & Mentions:

• Amri's book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable (affiliate link)
• Amri's Substack blog and podcast
• Amri's website: inclusionwins.com
• Find Amri on LinkedIn

Like what you heard?
Please subscribe, rate, and review The Two Piers Podcast wherever you listen—and help us bring more courageous conversations to more ears.