The Four Rules to Break for Financial Freedom - with Brandon Clark, CPA - The Two Piers Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Erica D'Eramo (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the Two Piers podcast. I'm
your host, Erica D'Eramo, andtoday we have Brandon Clark
joining us. Brandon is a CPA, afinancial planner and a coach
who partners with high achievingprofessionals to gain control
over their most preciousresources, their mindset, time
and money, all in service ofcreating a life of their own

(00:25):
design. As a coach, he helpsclients find or re engage with
their calling and complete theirlife's most important work. He's
also a financial planner whohelps his clients build and
execute the financial strategiesto underwrite their dreams. He
loves working with clients onboth mindset and the more
tactical details of theirfinancial plan. He currently
works in his own leadership andmindset coaching practice called

(00:47):
re examine wealth and as afinancial advisor at Toler
Financial Group.
Brandon. Thank you so much forjoining us. I'm really excited
to have you on the podcast.

Brandon Clark (01:06):
Thank you, Erica, it's a really, real, really a
pleasure to get to be here withyou as well. Thanks for having
me on. Yeah.

So tell us a little bit about your origin
story, kind of how you came todoing this work.

Sure I'm like, it's to think, like, how far
back do I want to go? Well,

I'll try to No,

not that far.
Let's see. So I began myfinancial career in public
accounting. You know when Iworking there, it was just one
of those things where it was agreat, it was a great
experience. I learned a lotthere, you know, I got to work
for a big four accounting firm,you know, really, you know,
develop some really, developgood, solid financial background

(01:57):
and skills. But I realized whileI was there that this wasn't the
career for me. So I started totry to figure out what was more,
you know, more what I waslooking for. So I suppose, I
guess, in moving around a bit, Iworked, you know, did some
government accounting for awhile. I worked in some small

(02:17):
business accounting that wasalso very interesting, but still
not quite there. And thenstarted to realize that
financial planning might besomething that I was interested
in. So I was going to say, youknow, had a great I had a great

(02:38):
accounting career, I ended upactually having the opportunity
to own my own accounting firmtowards the end of it, and I
think that was sort of the finalstake, or final straw that just
made me say, You know what? I'vetried everything within here,
but it's still not quite for me.
But one of the things along theway that I picked up was I had

(02:59):
the opportunity to work withcoaches. And that made, you
know, developing a smallaccounting, developing a small
team for my accounting firm, youknow a lot better and and then
final, in my final year of thatbusiness, as I was trying to
figure out what was the nextthing for me, I worked with a

(03:21):
coach who, you know, herspecialty was actually money
mindset, which is, you know, Ihad no idea at that time that
this would be something that Ithat really resonated with me.
But, you know, just through thework with her, I started to do a
lot of my own kind of personaldevelopment, you know, started

(03:41):
to sort of address many, like,my whole life's work, my whole
life's worth of, like, beliefsand, you know, stuff with money,
stuff with work, all of that.
And so it's just this pathwhere, you know, just going down
the path of work. You know,ultimately, it brought me to
this place where I am now, whereI've got, you know, two

(04:03):
professions that you know verymuch fulfill me, and are the
ways that I like to work withpeople and, you know, kind of
make my own impact in the world,

yeah. And I think it's interesting too, because I
share that in some ways, right,as a coach and also a
consultant, and sometimes I haveto say, like, Okay, I'm taking
my coach hat off now I'm puttingmy consultant hat on, or vice
versa. So can you share a littlebit about sort of the
differences between a financialplanner role, when you're in

(04:37):
that role, you know, how that,what that looks like, versus
when you're wearing yourcoaching hat, so to speak.
Because I think a lot of peopledon't necessarily understand
what coaching is or thedifference, although we do talk
about it a lot on this podcast.
But you know how the subtle,subtle, or really, not so
subtle, differences there thatyou that you see,

sure, um, let's.
See, I'll start with financialplanning, financial advising.
You know, when I'm in that role,I'm much more directive, you
know, it's like you are comingto me and you are asking me for
advice, and I'm going to tellyou my opinion of what I think
is the thing that you need to dowith your money, you know, and

(05:19):
what's going to and I guess Iwould say the one way where,
even in the financial advisor,financial planner, when I'm
wearing that hat, but I think Ioperate just a little bit
differently. And this isprobably somewhat the influence
of coaching, but also my own,sort of, just my own orientation
towards it is helping clients,like, look at what they're

(05:40):
optimizing for. Like, I thinkthe default of most financial
planners is money. You know,optimizing for money. But this
other orientation, where we'reoptimizing for quality of life
is very much how I've kind offramed my practice, and so I
have to tell that to clients alot of time. So which answer do
you want? You know? Because we Ican tell you how to I can tell

(06:03):
you how to optimize your money.
It may not be the path that'sthe most fun, or, you know,
that's gonna there may bespeeds, there's definitely
there. There could be somehassle around there that as
well. And so I just want to makesure that, like, people know
what they're picking, so tospeak. So at any rate, that's,

(06:24):
you know, that's the that's theanswer to your question. And
then, you know, in contrast tocoaching, is much more I'm
really in tune to the client andtrying to reflect back to them
what I hear and help them tomake a decision that's most
aligned with, you know, whereverit is they're trying to go. So I

(06:48):
would say, I think I've used thecoaching hat a decent bit in my
financial planning as well. Butyou know, they're definitely two
things, and they're definitelydistinct. But I you know, the
not giving advice part, I think,is probably the central piece.
You know, when I'm when I'mpurely wearing the coaching hat.
And so I definitely, you know,separate the two as well.

Yeah, I think that sounds similar to the world
of coaching and consulting,where, yes, when I am wearing my
consulting hat, I am being paidto lend my acumen, my expertise,
and tell people my opinion onwhat I think will give them the

(07:32):
best outcome that they arelooking for. Now, I will
sometimes dip into my coachingskills to figure out what is
that outcome that they arelooking for, rather than
assuming or ruling, what I thinkthat outcome should be. And I
think when it comes to financesand financial planning, having
that skill set is so importantin, you know, and in someone

(07:55):
you're getting support from,because especially, especially
for for people who havetraditionally not been
supported, not been seen, as,you know, the prime money
earners of society, there can bea lot of unease and a lot of
fear of judgment and a lot ofshame and a lot of narratives

(08:16):
there. And they and when we goto a financial advisor and
they're like, well, you're justbeing silly with your money. And
it's like, well, but I'm, I'mmaximizing for the outcome I
want. You're just, you just havea different outcome you want.
And so I think a lot of it stopsa lot of people from seeking
support because they're worriedabout that judgment. Because,
you know, like, I call the cashflow bros, they might not have

(08:38):
the same, the same goals that Ihave, yeah,

yeah. That's I, you know, that is, that's why I
definitely brought up that pieceabout, like, what are we
optimizing for? And so, youknow, I think that there's even,
like, a level of listening thatI think I do, just from having
the coaching skill set thatother financial planners may not
because they're so dead set onthat, like, optimizing for, you

(09:05):
know, return money, but like, asyou know, and like, don't get me
wrong. Like, yes, I want, like,yes, performance is important.
Yes, you know, like, investmentsare important. Tax like, tax
optimization, all of thesedetails are important. But, you
know, there's a cost,ultimately, to, you know, a lot

(09:27):
of things in life. And reallyit's, you know, my, my
realization is that the money isreally in service of life. You
know, I guess you kind of readmy bio a bit, and I even say it
there. So,

so we mentioned financial freedom, I think, in
in talking about this episode,and I, I would love to have you
know in your words, what youconsider financial freedom, like
what? And we've maybe touched onthat a little bit so far, or I'm
starting, starting to. Or thattopic. But tell me what you

(10:03):
conceptualize as financialfreedom. Yeah, so

financial freedom is, is definitely it's like one
of my favorite topics, you know,to talk about, both in my own
life and with my clients. Youknow, my definition of financial
freedom. There's kind of twodifferent aspects to financial
freedom. There's the money part,which, you know, it's the the

(10:29):
like the dollars and cents, it'sthe budgets and spreadsheets.
And you know, how much are youspending? How much versus how
much of you're earning, versushow much, you know, sort of
investment income do you have?
But there's also a mindset pieceto it as well. And so there's
this kind of, you know, I thinkone thing that a lot of people
think about when, like, I don'tknow, the most common thing you

(10:52):
hear is like, everyone wants tobe rich, right? Like everyone
wants to have enough money, andit's like, Why? Why do they want
this? It's so because they wantto be able to do what they want
to do. But the thing I'venoticed just in working with
people for so long on moneyrelated issues is just that,
like, it's actually surprisingthat, you know, I meet people

(11:14):
who, like, they're not mywealthiest clients, but they
just have it in them that theyfeel free like they've got
they've got modest they've got amodest house, they've had modest
jobs, they've saved and theyhave things that they're
passionate about, and they are,you know, they're able to create

(11:34):
freedom while there's otherclients who've got, Like, you
know, 10s of millions ofdollars, but they don't have
that same level of happiness. Soat any rate, there's sort of
these, like, I guess I look atit as sort of like the
financials of it. But thenthere's also a mindset piece.
And a lot of what I like tolike, one of my favorite areas

(11:56):
is to explore this mindset areaof finance. And like, what are
the things that keep you? Imean, I think every coach likes
this, right? Like, what are thethings that keep you, you know,
from feeling empowered, fromaccomplishing the goals that you
have set out? And so I just lookat it a little bit more from the

(12:17):
financial lens, too. And one ofthe final things I'll kind of
mention is I'm a part of this. Idon't know if you've ever heard
of financial independence.
Retire

early or fire.
I've not, but

there's this whole kind of sub, sort of
subset of the financial media.
And you know, it's people inthat kind of, like, 20s, 30s,
40s. Is the age group of mostpeople who are kind of
subscribed to this. But there'sjust the idea that you can, you
know, save up a ton of money andbasically save, kind of like 50%
of your income. And you know,usually over the course of 510,

(12:54):
15 years, you should be able toget to a point where you are
financially free. But one of thethings that happens with people
is that they continue to sort oflike even after they get to the
place where they said, you know,all right, well, 1.5 million, 2
million, I'll be able to getthere. They're not able to pull
that trigger, and it's becauseof the mindset piece. So, yeah,

(13:15):
just some of my interests in thesubject,

yeah. I mean, I'm sure that there is so much in
there, around fear, around youknow how the beliefs that we
inherit growing up, whether wegrew up in wealthy families that
taught us that, like money waseverything, or we grew up in
financially unstable familieswhere we believed then if we
just had money, everything wouldbe okay. And so I I'm sure it

(13:45):
must be, there must be all sortsof beliefs under there that that
lead to that. And it'sinteresting hearing you talk
about what you know, what's yournumber, essentially, that will
give you the freedom and how itshifts over time. I think I
mentioned to you at some pointwhen we were talking about
watching this Paris Hiltondocumentary recently, and I do,

(14:06):
for anyone listening it, thisdocumentary really did stay with
me. I don't watch a lot of TV. Idon't watch a lot of, like,
movies or whatever. This reallydid stick with me. And there's a
point where she's talking about,like, Okay, I just need a
billion dollars. And then, youknow, like, her sister is asking
her, like, when will it beenough? You're running yourself
into the ground work iseverything. You're making

(14:29):
yourself sick, like you're aworkaholic. When will you take a
break? Like, when can you take avacation? And she's essentially
saying, like, I can't take avacation until I have a billion
dollars. And and it sounds sowild in, you know, in our
context, but a lot of that camefrom her past trauma and all

(14:51):
this other stuff that's like,all wrapped up in her needing
safety and seeing a billiondollars as giving her safety.
Okay. Which is, it's allrelative, I guess, but, but that
really stuck with me. And Ithink, like the arc of that
documentary shows her kind ofrecognizing some of these things
and then coming to terms withsome of it. And I think now,

(15:13):
from what I can see, things haveshifted for her in terms of that
mindset, but we probably aren'tgoing to see that much about it,
because she's less attached tothe media now that she's kind of
got her mindset shifted. Soyeah, even, even people like
Paris Hilton,

yeah, now you're making me really want to see
that, because you're like, thisis, this is definitely one of
the essential pieces of like,the work that I do is helping
people to sort of, like, seewhat these, these things that
they're that are kind of intheir head, their beliefs, and,
you know, like, like you had,kind of shared with me, like she
had, you know, some traumathere. And like you ultimately

(15:54):
can't be like she, of course,she's using money as a way to
sort of help create that safety.
And, of course, money can createsome level of safety, but, you
know, so can also can therapy,you know, like so can healing.
And, you know, there's, there'sjust a lot of different aspects
to our relationship with withmoney. Because, I mean, really,

(16:16):
it's just your the relationshipwith ourselves, you know, right?
We project all these things onthe money that are aspects of
ourselves. So yeah, check thatout now.

I mean, right?
Because that pursuit of all thatwas taking all of her joy away
from her was taking like therewas no happiness in it, right?
There was no there was nosatisfaction. There was no like,
she was never stated orsatiated, and kept ending up in
these like relationships thatseemed really troubled. And
yeah, so like to what end thebillion dollars can buy you a

(16:56):
lot of therapy, but and it canbuy you a lot of security
guards, I guess. But ultimately,you gotta go do the you gotta go
to the work, the internal work.
So, yeah, interesting. But, Imean, I don't want to, I don't
want to dismant diminishfinancial struggles either. Like
I have lived a life where I hada lot of financial insecurity,

(17:17):
and I have lived a life whereI've had financial security, and
while the financial securitydefinitely didn't make me happy
being able to put put food onthe table and pay the mortgage
or pay the rent, I think isreally, you know, is is really
valuable in terms of mentalhealth. So I guess, who is this

(17:40):
conversation for, right? Is thisonly for, like, tell me a little
bit more, because maybe now,yeah, no,

that's now that I'm actually glad that you
brought up that context, becausethat context is super important,
you know. I think that when I,you know, I my clientele tends
to be, you know, people who canafford a financial advisor. I
think that, you know, so a lotof the stuff I'm saying is kind

(18:06):
of more geared towardsprofessionals, but I think that
you're absolutely right that,like, a baseline of just
financial stability is necessaryfor everyone, and is really a
part of just, like, overallwellness, and just the ability
to, like, produce enough money,you know, for your basic needs,

(18:28):
and then to start to be able toprovide for, like, some of it,
and just to have, like, abaseline of just overall health
and wellness for yourself. So Imean, I think that that's a good
point that you brought up. But Ithink that a lot of the things
that I'll bring up today arethings that people can use, kind
of across the spectrum of ofwealth, no matter where they

(18:52):
are, because I think everyonehas a relationship with money
where they are with that, youknow, probably differs, because
if you're not in a positionwhere you can, where you're
making enough money to supportyourself and those basic needs
that you know, that isdefinitely a problem, and so,
like, I don't, I'm not going togive you the tools to, like, you

(19:15):
know, sort of improve your job.
That's not what thisconversation is about. But
there's some great people outthere who focus a bit more on on
some of those things. You know,this conversation is a little
bit more geared towards peoplewho have, you know, some of the
like, they've got a decentbaseline covered, and and want
to, you know, start to improvetheir relationship with money,

(19:38):
and, you know, start to save andinvest and address some of
their, you know, some of theissues that they kind of see in
their financial life. Yeah, Ithink there are emotions as
well. Like, there, yeah, well, Idon't, yeah. I guess maybe I'll,
actually, I'll use the wordlike, when people. Find

(19:58):
themselves a little bit stuckaround money. I think that's the
place where people start tonotice, like, Ah, man, I really
feel like I should be able to,like, save more, or, you know,
afford, you know, just aslightly better house, like, and
they feel a bit stuck. That's alot of the place where I think
the stuff we're going to talkabout today can kind of help
people to peel back some of thelayers. It's

interesting because I sort of stepped off
the corporate conveyor belt tosome extent, and took some big
financial risks to do that. Andso now, when I go back to, you
know, we lived in Houstonbefore, when I go back to
Houston, I see some of the folkswho have stayed the course, and,
you know, are continuing to makemore money in that realm, and

(20:46):
are making, you know, like, waymore money that I'm making right
now, which is fine, like I madethat decision intentionally,
even they are still feeling likeI don't have enough. I need
more. I need another. I needanother investment property. I
need what about, what about thekids college? It's like it will
never, it will never be enough.
It'll never be enough. So, soyes, okay, so let's get into

(21:08):
some of the meat of this when itcomes to, when it comes to, like
money mindset, what would yousay some of the common myths or
misconceptions are that you tendto encounter, like, what are
some of these, maybe underlyingbeliefs?

All right, well, I've got, I actually kind of
prepared a few that I wanted toshare, you know, today with the
audience. And so I'll just kindof walk you through them. And so
I've got, like, a couple thingsI want to do. I want this to be
so I didn't ask your permissionfor this Erica, but I want to

(21:49):
kind of, so I'll kind of pose aquestion so that the listener
can, like, maybe pause for asecond and then just sort of
like, maybe they can do somejournaling, some thinking about
it before we, like, delve deeperinto it. So that's, that's kind
of how I'll do it. So the firstone is this idea that money is
complicated. So that's kind oflike the first money myth, or,

(22:13):
you know, sort of misconceptionI call them. I tend to call them
rules, or subconscious rules. Soat any rate, money is
complicated, and so the firstquestion I'm going to ask to our
audience is, What mistakes haveyou made with money? And then
the next question is, what's amistake that your caregivers

(22:36):
made with money? And thenanother one, which is, what
Warnings Do you remember yourcaregivers may be saying to you
around money? So,

so I want to, I just want to mention, too that
we'll put these in the shownotes, so that for folks who are
maybe listening to this anddriving or doing dishes and they
want to come back to this. Thiswould be a great tool to do some
journaling prompts for, yeah,

so this idea that money is complicated, and the
reason why I picked thoseprompts is because, you know,
these are some of the, like, theroots that you can start to,
like, just play around with andto start to, you know, engage a
little bit to think about, youknow, what like? You know,
you've said this earlier in thepodcast Erica, just, you know,

(23:31):
you know, looking at yourparents and sort of like, what
was your situation like as akid? You know, around money,
what was it? What were theconversations that you overheard
around it. So some of theseideas that money is hard, you
know, for instance, or justthat, like anxiety that you can
feel around money, you know,they have roots in how people
dealt with money, and those howyou saw people interact with

(23:53):
money. So that's kind of the,you know, the framework around
this. But you know, ultimately,this idea that money is
complicated. So I don't want tobelittle people's struggles
around money like that'sdefinitely not it. But from
like, the simplest point ofview, if we can start to just
pick the simplest little part ofmoney that we can start to

(24:16):
master, there's a totallydifferent there's a much
different like energy and a muchdifferent feeling that gives to
you when you're able to start tolook at that so, you know, at
the most, at its most basicform, money is like you've got
income that comes in, you've gotyour expenses that you've got to
cover, and then You've goteither a surplus, you know,

(24:42):
which is money that you couldpotentially invest or save, or
you've got a deficit, whichmeans, at this day and age, it's
going on credit card. So, like,figuring that out for your
family, if you're kind of inthis stuck place and you've got
this, like, you know, a lot ofangst, or just feeling that
money is really complicated. Youknow, I actually one of the
first things I recommend topeople at times is just like, if

(25:05):
that's how you feel, like, takea take a little bit of a diet,
take a little bit of a breakfrom credit cards, because then
you'll be able to see that inincome and expense part much
more real time, because youcan't spend money that you don't
have now. So, like, you're gonnahave to look at your bank
account, you're gonna start torealize that. So really, the at

(25:27):
its most basic core, you know,spending less than you earn. And
that's sort of, you know, Iguess some people call this
like, that's like, when youthink of your grandparents in
the Depression, like that simplemath is the most basic place.
And like, starting from there,we don't have to get much more
complicated than that to be goodat money. You know, just being

(25:51):
able to have some savings iskind of the bomb. But like, the
biggest starting point, thatgets you a long way.

So, I mean, I think that there are, so, yes,
there's the credit card piece orsome other type of debt, or
people have savings that maybethey're dipping into that, like
rainy, rainy day savings, wherethe nest egg that they might be
using for that, but ultimately,it's like a flow state, right?

(26:22):
This is, like, volume in, volumeout, what's the what's the
Delta? Yeah,

yeah. And I think the so, like, the, since we're
going to be, like, working withmindsets a bit here, you know, I
would say, like, the thing tofor people to consider, you
know, like I was saying they'relike, if they notice that
they've got this, that this onekind of resonates with them a
bit, is just like, what? Howcould I simplify my money? What

(26:50):
is like, what is the most? Orjust saying, like, you know,
money, money is simple. Like, ifI think, if you start to just
say that, open up times, orstart to, like, think about
that, then your mind can startto go to, like, the most basic
elements and work, you know,with what's that? Just that one
next step. We don't have to getall the way to the end, which is

(27:12):
like, you know, the mansion youwant to buy, or just the next
house, but just focusing on,like, just that next step that's
in front of you, rather thantrying to get all the way to the
end? Yeah,

we don't, so we're not going to talk just now
about inflation and compoundinginterest rates and all that fun
stuff.

That's exactly right, that that's for another
day. That is, you know, and theymay be, if that's I was gonna
say for someone that could betheir next step, but probably,
probably not. Yeah, inflation isnot under our control,

right? So, okay, so money, this first, first kind
of, maybe belief, limitingbelief, perhaps, is that money
is complicated, and we talkedabout some, some potential
journaling lines of inquirythere, or reflection lines of
inquiry. What's What's anotherone?

Yeah, so my next one is work sucks. So, you know,
we all have to go to work. Youknow, that's, well, not all of
us, but most of us, but oh yeah,I was gonna say the other thing
I was gonna do, like, back toour sort of prompt here. So the

(28:29):
prompt I'll open up this one upwith, is, what were the
conversations or memories fromyour childhood around work? So
yeah, I guess, you know, talkingabout this idea of work sucking,
like I said, most of us have towork for money, you know, we've
got to put food on the table.
We've got to begin to meet. Butthe like the problem, I think

(28:52):
the ultimate thing about thisparticular mindset is that it's,
you know, it's ultimatelycreating, like work is the
problem. And if we could own, ifwe could just get away from
work, then, or this job, orwhat, you know, whatever it is,
then life will be better. Andit's, you know, ultimately,

(29:13):
focusing so much on this problemleaves little room for other
things in life. And so, youknow, instead, I guess the
focusing on the solution is whatI think is most important. So,
like, what is it that youactually want to be doing with
your time? What's the impactthat you want to be having in

(29:34):
your life? You know, if you canfocus your your thought, your
mind, your efforts towards, youknow, getting towards that
place, and not so much on, likethe work and, you know, the
sucking of work, you know, itjust creates, it creates much
more space for, like, aproductive conversation,

(29:56):
something that you're movingtowards, rather than something
you're running. Running awayfrom and I guess the other thing
I'll kind of add to this as wellas, you know, I feel like a lot
of the problems that we createaround money, you know, are kind
of rooted in this area, youknow, where escape, like, you
know, kind of the the ultimatelike the escaping work creates
overspending problems. It sortof creates this like tension

(30:21):
within us that not makes us notwant to face our money and face
sort of the inadequacy,inadequacy of it, of it all. And
so if you can sort of create amore, you know, I move like this
job is getting me to the placeof this next career that I'm
looking for that's a much morepowerful place that you can

(30:42):
start to like. It creates adifferent narrative of your
about yourself. You're not avictim, but you're in control.
You're using this position toget towards something else.

Yeah, I think a lot of people, I will often say
to clients like who might beunhappy in their roles that they
really are or feel very trappedright, that they absolutely are
opting in every day that they dohave agency, every day that they
are opting in. Now, are theyopting in? Because if they

(31:16):
don't, then the outcome isreally bad, absolutely like,
yes. They don't want to havetheir house foreclosed on. They
want to put money put food onthe table for their kids. So
yes, but, but it is all inservice of their values, like
it's all aligned with theirpriorities and their values
right now based on the optionsthey have. So yeah, the options

(31:37):
might not be great. We can lookto expand the options, but they
are choosing that instead ofsome other, not great options
because it's aligned with theirvalues. They're not just getting
dragged in against their will,and, you know, being being
forced to do this day in dayout. They do have agency. They

(31:59):
are the one in the driver's seathere, they just don't have a lot
of great paths available to themat the moment. But there is
another path available, which islet everything fall apart, let
the house get foreclosed on, or,I mean, we can really start to
look like is there a differenthouse? Maybe there's a smaller
house, maybe there's a differentway of putting food on the

(32:22):
table. Like, maybe there areother options here, but we are.
I think a lot of people feelthat they're in the passenger
seat and don't realize thatthey're in the driver's seat.
Even if the options aren'tgreat, they are still choosing
the most responsible option forthem. And there's like, there is
something really honorable inthat and responsible in that.

(32:45):
And I think we give ourselves,we a discredit when we don't
acknowledge that we are choosingactively the responsible option
that's in front of us right now.

Yeah, I think that's a great point. Yeah, to
add to that as well,

I think that the piece around trying to escape is
an interesting one, because evenjust that mindset about how you
feel in, you know, lack ofautonomy, lack of agency in that
can lead to trying to findautonomy and agency in different
ways, and that might look likecostly behaviors, right?

Yeah, yeah. I think that you know just
definitely the point likeacknowledging that you are
making that choice to stay inthe position to do the
responsible thing, like, likethat, that it just opens up so
many different sort of doors andand, you know, it propels you

(33:45):
towards things, rather than, youknow, feeling sort of stuck and
trapped. And I think that's,it's amazing how just those
feelings change how we are inthe world.

It's interesting.
I'm I, I'm not condoning thisbook or promoting it, because I
have, I've only just started itso, so I don't have any opinions
about it just yet. But, um, Istarted a book called
adventures, and opting out byKate Flanders. And she does, she
sort of talks about, like,taking a path less traveled and,
um, and she ties that into adiscussion around, I think, I

(34:21):
think where it's headed is adiscussion around sobriety. And
it sounds like the scene thatshe's setting is sort of one
where she was trying to escapethe misery of work by delving
into things like alcohol anddrugs and overspending and other
ways of like finding peace ornumbing, and that was causing a

(34:45):
lack of financial freedom. Soshe had a job that was paying
her lots of or like she wasfinancially stable but or had a
good income, I guess I shouldsay, and had some of these
markers. Of like, you know, theHouse and the whatever, the car,
and the things that we indicatethat indicate that we are on the
right path in society. But inorder to survive that, she was

(35:09):
having to numb herself in otherways, that was kind of making it
unsustainable. So we'll see. Imean, I'm interested in the book
because a couple people haverecommended it to me. But as
you're talking I'm also hearinghints of like, The Artist's Way
by Julia Cameron, which is sortof a different realm. But again,
these limiting beliefs aroundlike, I can't go do that thing

(35:32):
that I love because that's notwhat responsible people do, or I
can't make money that way, or Ijust need to make a million
dollars, and then I can go be awriter. Or I just need to go, I
just need to nail that sixfigure salary, and then I can
try pottery, or whatever it is.
So, so, yeah, these names, yeah,that's

actually a really, I was gonna say I hadn't
even thought of like, thisparticular mindset, like, the
work sucks one, because I wasgonna say that's actually a
great application of this too.
Like, why people stay in jobsthat they that they don't feel
alignment with, even when, youknow, even when they're in a
good financial position,sometimes that limiting belief
of, like, work now work has gotto suck. Like, yeah, it's the

(36:19):
one that's

right. Like, right, right. The idea, yeah,

I can't make money doing something that's
like, pleasureful. So, yeah,that's also a great,

I think that's also, there's a big cultural
piece there too that, see, thatfeels very much like a Western I
don't know America like kind ofAmerican ideology, and probably
shows up in other countries andother cultures as well. But I
don't think it's universal. Ithink some countries have a very

(36:58):
different view. I think I thinkmy Italian brethren might have
some different views on that. Idon't know. Yeah,

and I actually the thing that you might want to
like for the listeners, addingon to any of the prompts, like,
you know, when I, I may say,like your caregivers, or
something like that. But maybeeven add on something around,
like society, like, what, whatdid? What do you remember that
society told you about work, youknow, like, what comes to mind

(37:28):
there? Because those are, yeah,yeah. I mean, that's another big
lens that we tend to, like,absorb, that we're, you know,
it's not always aware. We're notalways aware of, you know, how
that shapes us?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was raised in a Catholic
household, so there were a lotof beliefs in Sunday school
around, you know, even justhappiness not really being a
thing that was celebrated,right? You were supposed to
suffer and have penance and allof this. And so, yeah, a lot of

(38:00):
it's like in that Puritan, thatPuritan thing, right?

Yeah, the Protestant work ethic, and
Protestant work ethic, very soonhas, they have their own, you
know, yeah, lenses towardsthings still, yeah, I also went
to Catholic school, or I went toCatholic school. I don't know if
you said that, but, but yeah,most raised Catholic, too. So

yeah,

may or may not, have some roles in how I view

view money. Well, it's all about awareness
building, right? All of this isjust about exploring and the
curiosity and yeah. So what is,what might be another line of
inquiry to explore for somesubconscious

So money is for others, not for me. And the
prompt I'll give everyone is,what's your first memory of
money, and the second one is,What's your most vivid memory of
something that money buys? I wasgoing to share briefly. So one

(39:10):
example for me that kind of Idid some thinking on this more
recently, and when I was a kid,I was a big carb off, and I
remember we had, like, a familyfriend who had a Mercedes, and
she was very fancy, and shealways had, like, you know,

(39:30):
she's, you know, really prettyhair and, like, nice, you know,
just always dressed in theknives and stuff like that. And
I definitely remember thinkinglike, wow, she's such a fancy,
like, she's just so fancy. Soanyway, that just comes up for
me. And the reason why I'llbring that up for me is that I

(39:51):
one of my own sort of things,is, I don't like to spend money.
It's, it's, it can be somewhatpainful for me to make, like,
big. Purchases. It's probablynot totally surprising, you
know, since I'm a financialplanner and a CPA, you don't
think of us as big spendersanyway. At any rate, I think the

(40:11):
This one comes up for mebecause, you know, I definitely
never think of myself as likesomeone who's fancy. You know,
I'm even deprecating myself now.
So that's, that's just, youknow, I'm actually playing this
out for your real time. So,yeah, that's, that's just, it's
just an interesting place tokind of look so those are the
questions around this one. Butthe idea around this is just

(40:34):
that, you know, memories thatyou have, how you were raised,
how you think about money. And Ithink this is this one is
somewhat universal, in someways, that money is for other
people. You know, it has abearing just on how you interact
with money now. And you know,it's important to just
understand that of it, I

can think of a couple people who might defy the
odds on this, and who do seem tobelieve that money is for them,
although they also came upthrough the finance world. So
maybe that's maybe that's notme. Maybe that's not a total
surprise, but I it's funny youmentioned the car piece, because
actually that when you mentionedthis, you know, memory that was

(41:19):
the same for me, like and I grewup. I actually grew up in a very
wealthy town in in FairfieldCounty, Connecticut, but we were
not wealthy. And so in highschool, I remember girls getting
these, like brand new cars thatthey would drive, like Cabriolet

(41:42):
or whatever, you know. And Iremember the cabriolet, and I
had my grandparents, 1980 ToyotaCorolla that had, like, had
pieces missing off of the body,and I had to go out there in the
winter and, like, start it witha little screwdriver in the in

(42:03):
the carburetor, like I had justthe carburetor, and I would have
to, like, put a brick on the gasto keep it going, or else it
would just stall out in thewinter and, and I had to pay for
it myself, like $800 I'd paymyself. And I was working at a
pharmacy at the time, justscraping by, and, and, yeah,
totally it was like, money isfor other people. These girls

(42:23):
get these fancy cars. And I'm wecalled it the turd mobile
because it was,

Oh, yeah. I remember those the 80s. They,
they, yeah, they did color carsto color, didn't they?

I will say that Toyota Corolla is probably still
running somewhere out there.
That car was, that car was abeast. But anyways, yeah, money
is for people.

Yeah. So this, this one's, yeah, it's just an
interesting one to look at. And,you know the idea that, like the
so the way that this one playsout for me, I'll kind of
elaborate on that, money is forme, but I have to save it.
Money's not for me for spendingso you like, if you play around
with it enough for yourself, youmight be able to, sort of like,

(43:11):
pick out what your view is, andsort of how that, like, you
know, impacts you. And then youget to decide, like, Hey, is
that actually true? Is thatactually how I want to be with
money here,

there is something here too about and you
mentioned it at the beginning,like, what is the point of it?
So for my husband and I, youknow, we don't have any nieces
or nephews, and we don't havekids, right? So, like, I can't
take it with me. So when people,when I do talk to financial
planners, you know, and they'relike, Well, how much do you want
to, you know, hand over to kids.
Like, what do you what do youwant? Like, talk about

(43:46):
inheritance. And I'm like, Ikind of want my accounts to be
empty when I die, to be honest.
Like, it doesn't mean I've spentit all, but maybe I've donated
it or whatever. But I don'treally want to have a bunch of
pink accounts full of money whenI die. That's not the point of
it. So, so, yeah, it justdepends different people have

(44:09):
different so in terms of, likesaving or spending one being
good, or one being, you know, oror not, that's a very different
thing. If I have kids and I wantthem, or have dependents of some
sort, or have, you know, like anonprofit that I really want to
have a big donation to, or somelow legacy, something like that,
it changes what that looks like.

Yeah, money is super personal, and, you know,
like the plan that kind of makesit makes, you know, your money
enough for, like, your uniquecircumstances. Like, it's
definitely one of those thingsthat's unique to you, that's the
but, like, I think a lot oftimes it's like, our brains just

(44:51):
do the math, and they're like,working in their own sort of
context of, you know, just theplan that's going on in your
head, and that's when it's like.
All right. Well, you know,usually, if we're just letting
the brain do it on its own, it'snot, probably not doing it quite
right,

right? Exactly, heuristics. Heuristics are,
biases are, are wild, yes. Sowhat else? What else you got?

All right. So one final one, you can never have
enough of it being money. Youcan never have enough money. And
so the prompt that I'll give is,what would you do if you won the
lottery? You know, we already,we already asked this question.
It's good to sort of like, jotsome of the stuff down. And so I

(45:42):
would encourage people, like, asthey're going through this,
like, you'll notice the stuffthat comes out, like, up top
you've got, you know, they'llprobably be all the things you
want, the houses, the thetravel, the, you know, the
stuff. Then you start to get tothe things like somewhere in
there that involve connection,impact, things like that. And so

(46:09):
what I encourage people to do isto really, I mean, it's like
they're ultimately focusing onthe stuff that's, you know,
impacting connection related.
The reason why is because that'sgives you, that gives you an
idea of what your real dreamsare and the things that are
going to bring you last inhappiness. You know that those
things like, like, in terms oflike, we're, we're all people

(46:33):
like, everyone wants to behappy, right? And we think that,
you know, the money, brandmoney, brings happiness, and it
definitely does. But you know,one of the things I've noticed,
especially working with clients,whenever they gotten by
something, you know, like, buy anice car, buy a nice house,
you're you enjoy it, but thensomething breaks, and then the

(46:55):
happiness goes away, you know,you reach like a career
pedestal, like you reach a placeyou really want to in your
career. Sometimes that sticks,sometimes it doesn't. But the
things that build that lasting,you know happiness are things
that involve, like connectionand impact and things like that.
So

yeah, that's really interesting, actually,
because, well, bringing it backto cars, I still remember when
my husband bought this, like funcar that he'd really been
wanting, and he had gotten apromotion at work, and so he got
this car, and it was an Audi RSfive. I don't know if that means

(47:43):
anything to car nerds, but,yeah, fun car. It was green and
it was Zoom, zoom. Fast car, Iguess. And I remember there was
some, like, little something onit, like some little tiny chip
or something, right? And hestarted to get anxious about it,

(48:05):
and I was like, Whoa, actually,time out. We need to have a
chat, because if we you spentmoney on this, like we've
invested in this. So I want itto bring you joy and fun and
happiness, but I cannot havethis hanging over our heads as a
potential source of anxiety, andlike just this crystal ball that

(48:27):
could break at any moment, likethings cars or cars, things will
happen to cars. They will andyou can get them repaired. You
get them fixed. But this is nota collector's item, you know,
we're not keeping it in. The thewhole point is not for it to sit
in a garage and never use itlike, this is your commuting
car. You'll put miles on it. Itis what it is, right? Like, we

(48:49):
just need to come to terms withthat now, because I can't have
it hanging over our heads, Ican't handle being anxious about
that. I don't want you to beanxious about it either. Like,
we already spent the money onit, you know? Like, don't have
it. Don't have it, cost us moreemotionally than it did
financially. So, and he wasactually like, really good about
that, but yeah, I'm like, Ican't this is why I get so

(49:11):
anxious about people buying megifts. Actually, is because I'm
like, please don't I breakeverything. Don't buy me
anything that I'm going to bestressed about breaking. Yeah.
Anyways, yeah,

yeah. And, I guess the thing I'll also add on
to this one is the whole ideaof, like, you can never have
enough of it is just that it'sthis sort of, it's a it's a
place without bounds, likethere's no end to it. You know,
it's like, like an, I guess inyour husband's example, it's
like, if it has a scratch on it,then it's like, it's devalued,

(49:46):
and it's got to be the pristine,brand new, like, you know, it's
just something that's totallyfleeting. So at any rate, my art
the kind of opposite of thismindset. The thing I encourage
people to do is like, No, my.
Matter where you are to todetermine that you have enough.
And the even if it's so hard foryou to believe like, like, take

(50:07):
like, I'm not going to say thisis easy, but if you can start to
find a place of just like, I'vegot enough, like, in whatever
way I have, whatever way youhave. Maybe it's a little bit of
savings. Maybe it's like, youknow, you've got less credit
card debt than last month.

(50:29):
Whatever that enough is, thenit's a building block. You know,
you can, you can start fromthere and build and start
building towards the things youknow that you really want in
life, you know? And these arethose things that I mentioned
that that kind of the secondaspect of the list, the things
that bring impact, things thatbring connection. And so to set

(50:52):
like ultimately, we each have todecide that we've got enough,
because that's a place that wecan actually start to be
generative, and we can start tobuild from there. So no matter
what, I'm cur like, I guess thisis one of those things where I
always try to, you know, alsopush clients, as well as to say,
like, we've got it, like,whatever those things that

(51:13):
you're delaying for later inlife. Like, how can we bring
those to today? How can we,like, if you want to be more
charitable, like, okay, great,that's not something that we're
going to do in five years.
Because, yes, the portfolio isgoing to have grown. They're
going to have grown, and, youknow, maybe you'll have retired.
And that seems like it makessense. How do we make that goal

(51:34):
happen in some form today andthen build off of it.

Yeah, I mean, there's also the, I think the
the reason the car thing stoodout to me so much in comparison
to the connection, is becausethose material elements that you
mentioned bringing kind offleeting joy. It just feels like
such a fragile, fragile type ofjoy, whereas the connections,

(52:08):
the experience, the lifeexperiences, those are a more
resilient type of joy in mymind, right? Or more resilient
type of value, even because ayou can't take them away. You
can't take that experience awayfrom you. I mean, I don't know,
perhaps something could happenthat shifts your how you view it
in the past, but it's stillthere in your memory bank

(52:32):
forever, and the connectionswith people and in community
like those will hold you up whenthings get tough. And exactly
assets or the things you'vecollected, like you can sell
them off, but they won't reallyhold you up.

Yeah, that's exactly right, and it makes you
more resilient to when you do,you know, because setbacks are
always going to happen, likesomething you know, life
happens, and that's, you know,when you've got strong
community, when you're doing thethings you want in your life,
you know, it's just it doesn'thit you in the same way. Yeah.

So I, as I mentioned at the beginning, like
we'll put some of thesejournaling prompts in the in the
show notes, that people canreflect on them and maybe use
them. If you are an artist, swayperson, a Julia Cameron fan, you
can maybe write about these inyour morning pages. I'm trying
to get back to my morning pages,so I'll put that out there. But

(53:37):
how would you say people canstart to become more aware,
like, more self aware, just moreconscious of these underlying
either beliefs or myths ormindsets. Yeah,

I would say just like, focus in on areas where
there's like, I don't know, Ifeel very coachy when I say
this, whether it's energy wherethere's like, sort of
frustration, envy is anotherstrong one, basically, like
strong feelings, like, Yeah, solike looks, so that's a, you

(54:22):
know, whenever you notice thataround something especially
money related, or, you know,kind of money, work status, all
of these areas start to get alittle bit curious. Journaling
is one way to start to just sortof write things down, you know,
talk to friends, things likethat. But these are, that's one

(54:44):
thing. The other thing Irecommend called Money scripts.
So you could probably justGoogle that, but there's four
money scripts, and these arekind of similar to these rules
that I've brought up in theconversation, rules or
unconscious belief. So we havebut the form money scripts are
money avoidance, moneyvigilance, money worship and

(55:08):
money status. And just to kindof give you a primer on them, I
won't go through them. I don'tthink enough time, but each one
of these, the idea around themis that they are neither good
nor bad. They just are. They'rejust ways that people tend to
look at money and, you know,there's, it's not like you just
have one, or like you're, you'reborn with this, you know, die

(55:30):
with this. These are just like,sort of lenses that you kind of
can see the world through. Andso if you Google those, and sort
of look at those, they're like,each one of those. And it can
be, maybe you have one or two,but they can, you know, as you
read about them, you can sort ofsee that how they may affect how
you're dealing with money. Yeah,

great. That's, that's great. We'll also include
link through that as well. Soand is that, is that through,
like an organization or througha website? Yeah,

there's, there's a guy named Brad Klontz, and I
think his father, they're,they're both therapists or
psychologists, and theyspecialize in kind of this, like
intersection of psychology andmoney. So I'll try to find a
link to send you for that. Butthey, you know, they have this

(56:24):
assessment. I think you have to,you know, like, pay money for
it, which, of course, yeah, butI don't have, like, a free way
for people to, like, take thatassessment. But I think just
reading them, I'll try to findthem right up and send it to
you. If you can include in theshow notes, just reading through
them, you'll be like, I thinkthat sounds like,

yeah, be helpful.
Cool. So we've talked a lotabout mindset and kind of
through the coaching, throughthe coaching lens. What? What
are some ways that people, thatyou help people create this type
of financial freedom, wearingyour financial advisor hat?

Sure. So one of the things I focus a lot on is,
just like, you know, freedom inthe present tense. Like, how do
you create? How is it that youcreate more freedom for
yourself? You know, in in theseyears, like the next 135, years,
even if you're still working. Sousually that looks like, you

(57:25):
know, building like focusing onbuilding like an emergency fund.
You know, these are things thatpeople probably have heard
before, but, you know, emergencyfund is kind of like the first
place, and then sort of reservesfor different goals or projects
that you have in mind, you know,maybe you want to career shift.
You know, how do we sort ofcreate the financial pathway,

(57:47):
you know, to you be able to,like, take time off work, you
know, per school, pursueschooling, things like that, you
know, I guess one of the thingsI'm really big on is
systematizing savings. And, youknow, the same way that, like,
it's easy for most Americans nowto save into their retirement
because, you know, like most401, K certs have started to

(58:08):
auto enroll people, and peopledon't see that money. You know,
I do the same. I highlyencourage all my clients. And
usually that's what we one ofthe first things we do when
we've got a goal is we, we startto auto save in some light, so
that that gold is gettingfunded, you know, whether it's
investments, whether it's, youknow, just a savings account,
whatever it is. We also work alot on protection, you know. So

(58:34):
that's a few different areas,things like insurances, estate
planning, basically. How do weprevent, like, here's the thing,
I'm not a deputy downer, but Ialways say plan for the worst
and hope for the best. But howdo we make sure that nothing
like that nothing derails yourplan, so to speak. So that's an

(58:56):
important aspect of planning aswell. You know, one of the, I
guess, for you know, one of theother things that I also am a
big proponent of is savingoutside of retirement as well.
Like, I think most people areonly saving in their retirement,
and that creates, you know, itjust makes it very hard to sort

(59:17):
of make these shifts in life,especially if you're someone who
wants a level of independence,and so that's, you know, one of
the other things I'm a proponentof. So yeah, those are just some
of the things that I focus inon. But then all obviously, I
look at, you know, the future toretirement, you know, college

(59:38):
savings, all that stuff as well.
So

how would you describe your style, I guess,
and we talked about this alittle bit with the coaching
realm, but I know that it can bereally daunting for people to
talk to somebody about somethinglike money, especially if they
are carrying some of thesebeliefs, or if they've been
shamed in the past. So. So howdo you describe your style?

Brandon Clark (01:00:03):
Sure, I would say I'm pretty I try to generally be
pretty gentle with people. Ithink that's just kind of my
nature. I'm not like a hardcoreperson at the same time I am. I
will tell someone like it is,you know, if their goals are
unrealistic, or if they in, youknow, just depending on the

(01:00:26):
person and like what they need.
And sometimes I can come down alittle harder if necessary. But,
you know, usually I try to ifsomeone's pretty reasonable, you
know, can can deliver that newsin a way that they're able to
accept it and not totally derailtheir their hopes and dreams. So
I don't know I I think, I thinkone thing, one thing about me as

(01:00:50):
I kind of, I try to meet peoplewhere they are. I think that
that's one thing that I'vealways been fairly good at, is,
you know, I think I tend to be abit more empathetic than the
average financial advisor. Andit just, you know, my background
and coaching and so forth isjust kind of an example of that.

(01:01:11):
I decided, like, Oh, I'm notgoing to just jump into
financial planning. I'm goingto, like, take this sort of,
this other career path where Ireally want to understand people
and how they tick and and allthat, yeah? So, yeah, ultimately
I try to see, like, trying tounderstand, like, what, like,
you know, what does this personneed? And now, how can I be the
best advisor to them?

Erica D'Eramo (01:01:35):
Yeah, I think the first time I spoke to somebody
who was like, well, just what doyou want to do, and then we'll
just try to figure out how toget there. I thought, oh, that's
That's great. Okay, let's do it.
Like, we'll just look at theoptions and mitigate for the
risk. And that really appealedto my engineering brain, but I
expected

that sounds like a good advisor. A lot of times,
people start out with, like, I'mgonna tell you what you need.
Like, I barely even know you.
I'm just gonna tell you what youneed.

Or they'll, they'll focus on, like, what you
should have done and didn't do.
And you're like, man, what'sdone is done. Okay, cool. Maybe
I should have, like, diversifiedthis one thing, or I should
have, like, invested in whatevera hot, you know, I should have
moved this into a high yieldsavings, or I should have done,
like, whatever, some peopleinvest a bunch of money in some

(01:02:27):
startups and they lose it all. Ididn't do it, you know, like,
and that's fine too, right?
Like, that was their riskdecision. So it is what it is.
But, like, we can't there's,that's one thing that I think I
do wish folks in any realm, anyrealm, whether it's the people

(01:02:49):
working on your gutters or thepeople who are helping you plan
your financial stuff. Like,let's just be forward focused,
because if you can't change, youknow, like you can learn from
the past, but I think thatpeople get worried that
somebody's going to pick aparttheir past decisions and or
maybe, maybe I'm justprojecting, but I've never found

(01:03:11):
it helpful when somebody hasbeen like, well, you should have
done X, Y and Z, and it's like,Well, okay, but I don't have a
time machine, so let's justfocus On point forward, what are
we going to

do? Yeah, that's definitely not my style. The
only way that I would usuallybring up the pass is just if
there's something where, like aclient still has that, like the
scar from that, so to speak,yeah, and so then, like, helping
them to sort of see how that'slike, you know, maybe limiting

(01:03:43):
how they're moving forward. But,you know, usually otherwise,
it's like, why would you betalking about the past here?

Also, we can't understand all eventualities.
And this is one thing where Ithink, when I work with clients
who have regrets about stuff andlike, Oh, I wish I had quit this
job and gotten that other job orwhatever, and it's like you but
you don't actually know how thatwould have worked out. Like, we
can have an idealized way ofbelieving that, but we all are
making the best decisions we canat the time with the information

(01:04:14):
we have right. Like, that'sThat's it. We make the best
decision you can. And I think wecan all think about what could
have been, but when push comesto shove, if you had taken that
other path or investedsomething, some other way you
don't know, you might still bethere being like, damn it, I
wish I had XYZ. So there's not,yeah, there's not much, much

(01:04:36):
point in that. So it sounds likeyou have a very supportive and
empowering style for clients,which I think is awesome. So if
people like the sound of thatand wanted to connect with you
and find out more about eitherthe coaching or the financial
advising, where can they findyou Sure?

So my coaching practice is called re examine
wealth. You know, I have awebsite. Re examine wealth.com,
I also, I'm not that active onsocial or on Instagram, but I do
have an Instagram for mycoaching practice that's also re
examine wealth. Then myfinancial planning practice is

(01:05:15):
that I work in is called TolerFinancial Group. So I was going
to say, reach out to me, ineither place, I don't have a
strong preference, I guess, ifyou really know that you want
help on the financial like, youknow, on the actual tactics,
like, you know, setting upinvestments. You know, some of
that stuff, total or financial,is the best place, if you are
more, you know, thinking aboutsome of the mindset related

(01:05:38):
stuff, you know, re examinewealth. But either place, you
know, I'm happy to talk to you.

Awesome. We as always, will include that in the
show notes so that you can youcan connect. And I think you're
on LinkedIn as well, right?

I Yeah, thank you for mentioning that. Erica, I
meant to say LinkedIn, yeah, Itend to be a bit more active
there

than Instagram.
Yeah. Same. So awesome. Well,if, what would you say your
like, final takeaway is that youwant people, if they walk away
with one thing today, what wouldyou say that would be,

um, you're doing better than you think, like,
whatever your whatever yourworst, like, likely, whatever is
in your head of how you are withmoney is probably not really
your reality. So give yourself abit of credit.

Yeah, I agree. I think we all catastrophize and
think it's we're gonna end upliving under a bridge, I don't
know. Yeah. And then whenever Italk to a financial advisor, I'm
like, Okay, so I'm gonna end upliving under a bridge. And
they're like, you know, you'regonna be fine. It's gonna be
fine. Like, we just need theperson to tell us it's gonna be

(01:06:51):
fine. So thank you, right? Like,we are all operating in our
reality. We're all doing thebest we can.

I really also want to normalize that. Like,
how quickly our brains go tolike, we're gonna be living
underneath the bridge, you know,like that worst place. And
that's so common in everyclient. You know, every across
the spectrum of my clients,that's just, it's, it's, we're

(01:07:19):
ingrained with that so,

and I don't want to, like, I don't want to make
light of the houselessnesschallenge and housing insecurity
in this country, like, I reallyfeel like a lot of people are
just right on that edge of it,and also, like, the panic of
that doesn't is not productive,doesn't help anything. So
getting it out in the open,really understanding like, are

(01:07:43):
we? Are we one month away from areally bad situation, or is this
not actually that bad? We have alot more options, especially if
we act quickly. So yeah, yeah.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on and and sharing a bit
about what you do and some ofthese mindsets that you've
observed in your work. And wereally appreciate it. I really,

(01:08:05):
really enjoyed the conversation.
And for folks looking to find arecap of this, you can find it
on twopiersconsulting.com sowe'll have a recap. We'll have
links to all of Brandon's stuff.
So thanks so much. Brandon,

thank you, Erica.
I really enjoyed theconversation as well. Thanks so
much for having me on and I'llsee you soon. You

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The Four Rules to Break for Financial Freedom - with Brandon Clark, CPA

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Four Rules to Break for Financial Freedom - with Brandon Clark, CPA