June 6, 2024 • 43 mins
In this transformative episode, we are joined by the insightful Rebecca Arnold, a professional certified coach and author who specializes in personal growth and leadership development. Rebecca shares her compelling origin story, detailing her journey from a burned-out professional in policy work to reconnecting with her roots in psychology and finding her true calling as a coach.
Throughout the episode, Rebecca and host Erica D'Eramo engage in a thought-provoking discussion on the importance of accessing one's unique gifts and experiences to tackle pressing challenges and create positive change. They delve into Rebecca's concept of "rooted peace," a holistic framework for achieving well-being in mind, body, and heart, and explore how aligning inner values with external success can lead to a more fulfilling life.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into prioritizing well-being and intuition over societal norms that emphasize external validation. The episode also covers the complexities of navigating toxic work environments, enhancing emotional intelligence, and managing stress through mindfulness and emotional awareness.
Rebecca emphasizes the power of redefining personal success and offers practical tools for clarifying goals and desires. Don't miss this inspiring conversation that promises to leave you empowered to embrace your true potential and cultivate a life of rooted peace.
Rebecca's upcoming book, "The Rooted Renegade," will be available on June 10, offering fifty actionable practices for personal growth and transformation.
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Episode Transcript
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Erica D'Eramo (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the Two Piers podcast. I'm
your host, Erica D'Eramo. Andtoday we have Rebecca Arnold
joining us. So Rebecca is aprofessional certified coach and
the founder of Rooted Coachingand Consulting LLC, a holistic
leadership coaching firm. She'salso the author of The Rooted
Renegade (00:21):
Transform Within, Disrupt the Status Quo, and
Unleash Your Legacy, which willbe published by Greenleaf book
group in June of 2024. The bookis her call to action; part
roadmap and part step by stepguide to create a joyful,
harmonious life that meets thechallenges of our times. Her
clients are mission drivenleaders seeking holistic success
(00:43):
in the fields of education,medicine, law, academia, and
social impact organizations. Andattorney by training, Rebecca
has a background in educationpolicy. More importantly, she's
known as a straight talking bighearted coach. She also happens
to be a dog mom, a human mom,and a spunky wife. We are so
(01:04):
excited to have Rebecca, join ustoday and share some of her
insights on creating a rootedlife.
Rebecca, Hi, thanks for joiningus.
Rebecca Arnold (01:23):
It is a pleasure to be with you. Thanks for
having me.
Erica D'Eramo (01:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
So let's just start with kind ofmy typical question that I asked
every guest, tell us a littlebit about your origin story. So
what what brought you to theRebecca that we meet today,
Rebecca Arnold (01:42):
So many things like most people. So I studied
psychology in college, and I wasdeeply fascinated with education
policy, which led me to lawschool to work on equity issues
in education. And I worked inthe federal government, which
was a fascinating socialexperiment. And how big change
(02:08):
happens and seeing kind of howthe sausage gets made behind the
scenes, which is probably aconversation for another day.
And then after that, I had mytwo kids, and I was doing
consulting with education,nonprofits. And I finally found
my dream job. I was ecstatic. Iwas doing policy work in the
(02:30):
education space, we were makingtectonic impacts in education
systems, there was brand newlegislation, I was on top of the
world. And you know where thisis going. I colossally burned
out. And I had a real crisis ofa call this like values
(02:53):
collision, where my valuesaround social impact and
education equity and all of thatwere conflicting with my own
well being my values of familyand connection, I was traveling
a lot and not able to show upfor my kids in the way that I
wanted. And I really wasn'tprioritizing my physical and
(03:14):
mental health. So I entered thisperiod of extreme burnout and
kind of collapse. And throughthat process, there was a long
healing journey. And as a partof that, I started asking myself
this question of, What do I donext? If I've just experienced
(03:36):
my dream job, and that is nolonger an option? Where do I go
next? It was this realexistential reckoning. And I
started reconnecting with mypsychology roots. And I
remembered somewhere in the backof my mind this idea about
coaching that I'd heard aboutsomewhere along the way. And so
I took a class in coaching. AndI, you know, that experience
(03:59):
when it feels like puzzlepieces, just click into place,
and it's your you have this likefull body? Yes, that is how it
felt after having this coachingexperience. And so it was very
clear to me that that was mydirection, and a way to
integrate lots of differentinterests that I have and
support folks along the way,especially in particular to
(04:21):
avoid the experience that I hadat burnout.
Erica D'Eramo (04:24):
Yeah, that origin story absolutely resonates for
me, and I'm sure resonates for alot of folks listening of you
know, when you find somethingthat you think is the dream,
there is almost like an identitycrisis that happens when you
realize that the future you'denvisioned is not going to be
the path that you're going totake. So yeah, absolutely. Yeah,
(04:45):
really.
Rebecca Arnold (04:45):
And lots of folks feel lost in that gap up
trying to figure out what's nextbecause we don't talk about that
enough.
Erica D'Eramo (04:52):
Yeah, yeah. Yes.
Especially on this journey thatwe've set out for so so many
folks cuz in society of like,you go to school and you get
that you get your high schooldone, and then you go to
undergrad, and then maybe you gointo corporate and you go on
that ladder, or maybe you go tograd school and you go on that
ladder. So when you sort ofrealize like, Oh, I'm not going
(05:13):
to stay on this ladder, Oh, no.
What now?
Rebecca Arnold (05:17):
Right.
Erica D'Eramo (05:18):
Yeah.
Rebecca Arnold (05:18):
And some of these letters are very long. I
mean, the fact that academicfaculty I work with have been in
their field for 20 yearssometimes and are on the tenure
track, and then are looking atam I even interested in this
field of study anymore? Whichcauses a whole reckoning with
the choices? A person may havemade it 25.
Erica D'Eramo (05:38):
Right. Right.
Right. And introduces elementsof grief and yeah, and identity,
like you mentioned. Yeah. Soyou've talked a little bit about
what drew you to this work. Tellme a little bit more about, you
know, what makes it important toyou.
Rebecca Arnold (05:55):
I have this sort of notion that if you know, that
idea that the medicine that'sneeded for the planet exists on
the planet itself, I have asimilar thought about humans
that if everyone were actuallyable to access their gifts,
talents, the lessons of theirexperiences, and bring that
(06:17):
unapologetically, we would beable to solve our most pressing
challenges on the planet, in ourcommunities in our families. But
there's so much energy wastedwith stifled passion, intention
and gifts, that we all miss out.
And I am so committed to peoplebeing able to access the part of
them that may have they may havecast aside a long time ago or
(06:40):
might not feel entitled to leaninto and recapture that energy
for their own benefit. And forall of our benefits. So that is
what lights me all the way up.
And I get pumped when I'mworking with people who are
ready to make the shifts thatthat might require. And I just
(07:02):
love watching the cascadingimpacts of those changes for
folks in their workplaces andtheir families in their
communities. You can watch ithappen. Yeah, sure. You have a
similar experience with yourclients too.
Erica D'Eramo (07:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think I've I've been goingon this kind of evolution in my
coaching and consulting journey.
But it sounds very similar inthat, you know, I started
working with individuals. Andthat's important, right, but I
wanted to make system changes.
And then I started to work withthe systems and organizations.
But I've kind of come fullcircle back to the individuals
(07:39):
because they are the agents ofchange. Right? It is, it is
working with these individualswho will shape the world. And so
yeah, as coaches, I think wework with, we work one on one
with people. But the point isthat they have the impact in the
world that they want and need tohave. So
Rebecca Arnold (07:59):
absolutely. And I think about the leaders who I
support and the 1000s of folksthey're responsible for, and
their families and theircommunities and one small shift
and how they're showing up hastremendous impact. And so it's
so it just seeds, so muchpossibility for them and for
(08:21):
those around them that you can'thelp but get excited about it as
a coach. Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo (08:27):
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So So tell me a
little bit more about theconcept of being rooted in
peace, which is sort of one ofthe foundational elements of
your, your upcoming book. Sodescribe to me what that looks
like, what is rooted peace?
Rebecca Arnold (08:42):
Yeah, so I think about rooted peace from three,
it's sort of the constellationof three different elements. The
first is this idea of internalpeace. So building the capacity
to have greater resilience tocounteract stress, whether that
is through breath, work, throughvisualization, through
(09:05):
connecting with what mattersmost to you. The second piece is
existential peace. Are youliving your purpose? Are you
aligned with your valuesholistically in the span of your
life? Are you supportingyourself in your day to day, are
you breaking yourself down? Andthen the third piece is
relational. The third element isrelational peace, which is your
(09:29):
relationship with yourself andwith other people. And the way
that I think about this idea ofrooted peace is that in order to
have this Mind, Body heartexperience of everything feels
right in our lives, we reallyneed those three components. And
my invitation in this book andalways is not to seek
(09:51):
perfection, because all of usare working in those three
elements throughout our lives.
But it's more of a framework forhow to look at at what's working
in your life, and what's not andwhat to do about it. And I am
really committed to practicalthings. So there are tons of
practices built throughout thisframework to support people to
(10:12):
have an impact in those threeareas.
Erica D'Eramo (10:18):
Yeah, I don't know how many books I've read
that are great conceptually. Andin theory, and you finish and
you're like, Man, that was sucha good read. And then you go
back to life as normal, becausethere was nothing tactical,
measurable that you could putinto practice and start to embed
those over time. So yeah,that's, that's great. So, you
(10:40):
know, you sort of took your ownjourney and stepped off the
train, the train tracks. Andthat probably involved a lot of
reframing what you wanted out oflife. And it sounds like that's
maybe a thread with your clientsreframing. So how does this
concept shape your concept ofsuccess than or how you view
(11:03):
success.
Rebecca Arnold (11:06):
So we are all in the US anyway, swimming in a, in
a culture that prioritizes Go,go go capitalism, top dog, all
of that stuff. And we have, mostof us have grown up with a
traditional notion of successthat looks like that. But when
(11:26):
we think about the things thatwe actually want, so when people
talk about wanting more money,for example, they don't want to
jump in a pile of money. I mean,that might be like an
interesting experience. Butthat's not what people are
actually after
Erica D'Eramo (11:39):
So many germs.
Rebecca Arnold (11:43):
What they actually want is the experience
that they think having thatmoney will get them. What
they're usually seeking is calm,tranquility, adventure, a life
that looks that feels good onthe inside, and reflects who
they feel like they are. And sowhen I think about success, it's
(12:05):
what are the things that aregoing to give you the mind,
heart and soul experience ofawe? And yes, simultaneously.
And that's the thing, when Ithink about for my own kids,
what I want for them, that'swhat I want for them. And I also
want for them to know how topick themselves back up and be a
(12:27):
partner for themselvesthroughout their journey. And so
those are some of the pieces ofsuccess and the ways that I look
at success. And what my clientsare really wrestling with often
is when they have followed this,these long ladders that we've
talked about, and they thoughtthat success will be on the
other side and happiness. Andthen they experience a gap of I
(12:50):
am successful, quote unquote,and miserable on the inside. And
I'm not Okay with that. I'm sureyou're not Okay with that
either. And when I think aboutrooted peace, the objective is
to get people that alignment ofthe outside and the inside their
experiences. Meech, yeah,
Erica D'Eramo (13:08):
I mean, I think that, right, that it's such a
complex discussion, becauseespecially in a right, we live
in capitalism, and and Maslow'shierarchy of needs, we need a
roof over our heads, and we needfood. And sometimes we can't
take that for granted,especially with inflation and
everything happening. And also,this acknowledgment that even
(13:30):
once you start to meet the lowerbaseline, Maslow's hierarchy of
needs, we start to explore thoseupper echelons of it. And if you
don't have those, either, youstill won't have what it is that
money or titles or whatever issupposed to give us. Yes to be
holistic, right?
Rebecca Arnold (13:52):
Absolutely.
Yeah. It's also a piece that Isee. I don't know what your
experiences with your clients,but I think of it as like an
atrophied wanting muscle forfolks who are women and other
marginalized identities, havinga hard time even connecting with
what they want, and what isgonna fill them up. That is not
(14:13):
from external sources, but isactually comes internally and as
deeply felt.
Erica D'Eramo (14:21):
Yes, yeah, that was that's I just recently with
a client had a conversationabout, you know, taking a
different role, and it would bea lower title, but it would give
much more, you know, quality oflife, but it would be a step
down. But the pay would be thesame, you know, and it was it
was interesting, because it waslike, well, there's nothing
(14:43):
wrong with putting value on thetitle is Are you actively
intentionally opting into thatas a value or did is this
inherited, inherited didsomebody give this to you as a
value because the structure thesystem, the organization, they A
benefit off of you internalizingthat, as you know, tied to your
(15:04):
value as a human. But do youactually do that? And it turns
out the answer was no.
Rebecca Arnold (15:10):
Yep. Yeah. I mean, even in our language,
right, like a step down, yeah,we're taking a step into a
higher quality. Who decided thattitle was a step down? So it's
embedded throughout?
Erica D'Eramo (15:25):
Yeah, that was my client's language, not mine.
Right. Like they that was? Yeah.
Which is is such a signal to towin how we view that? Yeah, it's
like, well, you know, how muchmoney would you pay for peace of
mind? And let's put $1 amount onthat to, for you to see just how
valuable it actually is for you.
Rebecca Arnold (15:49):
Right? I mean, when you think about, sometimes
I do this thought exercise withclients, like, what is this?
What is this job actuallycosting you? And we go through?
Well, I have to go to the doctorthree times a year to check on
this thing. That is, I'm notpaying any attention to, I need
to take these expensivevacations to recover, I have to
(16:10):
have coverage for my kids,because I'm not able to show up
for them in the way that I want.
I have to, I spent a lot offrivolous money because I'm
trying to numb out. Right. Andwhen you start to add all that
up, it is deeply expensive tonot be aligned with what you
actually want. Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo (16:29):
yeah. I know that the compounding interest on
wellbeing is probably somethingthat we can't calculate. Wow.
Yeah. So you know, what are someways that you feel folks can,
you know, use the wisdom and thepower that they inherently have
to go from maybe where they'reat right now to building
(16:51):
something that looks moresustainable for them.
Rebecca Arnold (16:55):
So one piece, which dovetails on what we were
just talking about is, I callthis notion dancing with
mortality. We have this ideathat mortality is so far off,
and for most of us, and it isjust a lie, we tell ourselves to
get through the day, which ofcourse we have to right, if we
were every moment thinking aboutour mortality, we wouldn't be
(17:16):
able to function, right? And wewe sort of cast mortality, we
kind of cover our eyes and lookaway. And what I often invite
people into is to have the senseof dancing with mortality, which
looks like bringing it a littlemore into your conscious
awareness. Like maybe once aweek, hey, I'm X number of years
(17:41):
old, how many more years do Iactually have left? And how do I
want those to look? And there'sa zooming out quality that
happens at a reprioritizing thathappens as soon as we start to
have that kind of aconversation.
Erica D'Eramo (17:54):
Yeah, I mean, there's a, I don't want to call
it a trope. But this it's kindof well known now that you know,
the astronauts that get to seethe earth, from afar have this
complete existential shiftabout, you know, where we are
and what a miracle it is that weeven exist. And for me that
(18:16):
dancing with mortality, anyonewho's listened to the podcast
for a while has heard me tellthe story about like, snapping
into a helicopter see, and sortof having it front of mine that
there had been a bunch ofhelicopter crashes in the
industry and beyond what if thishelicopter goes down? Did I do
what I wanted to do in life?
Well, I have regrets on the waydown, like, certainly sadness
and fear, but like regrets abouthow I spent my time. And the
(18:38):
answer was yes, that day, and itwas a real, like, wake up call
for me. And anyone who's dealingwith illness, or anytime we hear
these things in the media about,or in our communities, even
about, you know, like, massshootings or just real
tragedies, it's a, it's areminder, like tomorrow is not,
(18:59):
tomorrow is not a given.
Absolutely.
Rebecca Arnold (19:05):
And it puts that email you've been fighting over
into the perspective it needs tobe in. And it's so easy to kind
of slingshot back into our dayto day. So the invitation is
just to periodically bring itinto your awareness. Another
piece that I another kind ofpractice that I think about in
terms of activating the wisdomthat you hold inside is we have
(19:30):
most of my clients and I'm surethis is your experience, too,
that kind of operate from theneck up. And we're so used to
relying on our brain in Westernculture. Of course, our brains
are delightful. And there is
Erica D'Eramo (19:42):
I don't know Speak for yourself
Rebecca Arnold (19:48):
or frustrated with mine too. And there is so
much wisdom, intuition,understanding from the neck down
that we often to now And so,most, most of us are kind of
under practiced in payingattention to the signals that
our body is giving us. And it isone of the quickest ways to
(20:11):
access our intuition and help usmake reprioritize and make some
of the critical decisions in ourlives. And so I often work with
folks to kind of re kind offorge a new relationship with
the wisdom of their bodies. Andthat can look like when you have
an ache talk, I know that soundsa little wacky, but talking to
(20:32):
your ache, what are you tryingto tell me? What do you need me
to know? And as you startasking, those kinds of
questions, your body will startto answer. So there's, this is a
whole realm. I mean, yoursomatic practice is a whole
realm that has so much richness,and is not talked enough about I
think, in leadership kind ofspaces and circles and within
(20:54):
organizations.
Erica D'Eramo (20:56):
Yeah, there's a an author named Lisa Feldman
Barrett, she wrote, yeah, howemotions are made. And so as
you're talking through this,it's just reminding me that,
like, our brain is interpretinga lot of things. And it's really
just reading what's happening inour body that's, that is
happening in order to keep usalive. Yep. And then we add
context, we add meaning we addhistory. And then we come up
(21:21):
with a word and we say, Oh, I'mscared, or I'm this, or I'm
that. But really, it's thethings are happening in our
bodies. And then we can be morereflective and intentional about
that and more observant.
Rebecca Arnold (21:38):
Yeah, it's so interesting to me, I don't know
if that you've had thisexperience, but lots of books
talk about the need foremotional intelligence, and
social intelligence and all ofthat. And oftentimes, that work
can be intellectual in a waythat is great, and is missing
the complementary piece of, ifit's hard for you to identify
(22:01):
the imprints of differentemotions in your body, it's very
hard for you to be compassionateand empathetic with other folks
and understand your ownemotional interior life. And so
of course, there can be a gap incollaboration and communication
and teamwork and all thosethings that our leaders and
organizations value so much.
Erica D'Eramo (22:21):
Yeah, yeah. That the word interoception a lot of
like, throw that out there. Alot of people are not familiar
with that word, but it meansright, being able to know what
is happening in your body. Andif that's not, there's a reason
it's called a practice, right?
This is not something that youjust decide tomorrow, I'm going
to be aware of what's happeningin my body. So that's why
working with a coach, likeyourself can be so valuable,
(22:43):
because it's bringing back tothat like coming back using the
practices being building thatawareness over time. And it's a
muscle that we build in a way,right? Absolutely. Yeah. So how
do you feel folks can start toown their own capabilities, you
know, even when they're in awork environment, that's maybe
(23:04):
not sending them the mostpositive messages or can be
filled with, you know, a lot ofeither toxicity or just
criticality. And so, what's someadvice you have?
Rebecca Arnold (23:18):
Yeah, so I love this question. Thank you. There
are so many small practices thatcan make a huge impact. And one
that I love is simply at the endof the day, writing down three
wins you had that day, it can beI smiled at a jerk today. From
(23:39):
that to Iraq to thatpresentation, right, it can be
as micro as you want to make itor as macro as you want to make
it. But one of the opportunitiesof a practice like that is that
if you know what's coming at theend of the day, you'll start to
look for your wins throughoutthe day. And it's a very simple
way of counteracting a toxicculture, not that this is going
(24:02):
to fix everything. Of course,the toxic culture is systemic,
and it's not an individual'sresponsibility to metabolize
that. And while you are workingin that system and trying to
either negotiate, change ornegotiate your out, there are
practices you can do to startfeeling incrementally better.
And this is one of them. So itwill start to counteract your
(24:25):
our all humans have a naturalnegativity bias, it will start
to counteract that and we'llstart you'll start to notice the
cumulative winds you havethroughout the day and
throughout the week. And I lovewatching and my clients when
they start to do this initially,some of my clients are
resistant. I don't know if youhave this experience, but people
are so used to beatingthemselves up they worry if they
(24:46):
stop, they're going to fallapart.
Erica D'Eramo (24:49):
Yeah, I Yes. I think that that is such a
fascinating thing to explore aswell because it's almost like
you know, the Marie Kondo likeOkay, take that parasites think
it for what it's done for youand send it on its way. And I
feel like that sometimes withour hyper criticality, these
voices that we've developed overtime, it's probably kept us
(25:13):
safe. They probably helped usExcel especially over, you know,
high performers, overachiever,overachievers. And so like
acknowledging the role itplayed, because we don't want to
demonize it mean, recognizingthat it's no longer only option,
and it's probably not reallyserving us that effectively
going forward. So exploring whatthat might look like. But I, I
(25:36):
really appreciate this framingversus I know that there's a lot
around gratitude. And I, I know,there's a lot of research around
the effectiveness of gratitudepractice. But I love this idea
of like capturing your wins,that you are proud of, because
it's a reminder, that buildsconfidence in your own
capabilities. Because confidentwe know right? Like confidence
(25:59):
doesn't come from just tellingyourself, you're confident I
hate this narrative for women,like just believe in yourself.
No, look at the evidence,there's evidence there that you
are amazing. Go look.
Rebecca Arnold (26:12):
And the what I would add, so this applies
actually to gratitude practices,and also to practice like
writing down your wins. If youwrite down your wins, and then
allow yourself a few moments toexperience the the sensations of
pride in your body of havingaccomplished those wins, it will
(26:32):
stay with you longer and have abigger impact. Rick Hansen, I'm
sure you've read Rick Hansen'swork like neuro Dharma and the
pursuit of happiness, I thinkit's called looking on my
bookshelf. He talks about thispractice of with gratitude, if
you hold on to it longer, alittle longer, and let it soak
(26:53):
into your body. It has such aricher impact than just writing
down a list of gratitudes. Andthen moving on to your email.
Right, which totally makessense, right? We hang on to it
in a positive way. Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo (27:06):
I could see folks listening in and especially
those like hardened corporatefolks. This all sounds woowoo to
me, blah, blah, blah, no, like,man, it's in this really isn't
the science. And fundamentally,it comes down to surviving into
the life you want to be livingbecause so much of detaching
(27:29):
from what's happening in ourbodies and detaching from that
flight fight or flight responsemeans that are we stay in that
right? We are constantly in ajust soaked with cortisol, and
we're more at risk for chronicillnesses or more at risk for
toxic behaviors towards thepeople around us, whether that's
(27:49):
family, employees, colleagues.
So there are very practical andsound reasons that taking this
like internal view, embracingsome of these mindsets. They
have like, very immediateimpacts on our lives and in our
performance. And yeah, yep.
(28:12):
Yeah,
Rebecca Arnold (28:12):
I had a client who when we talked about this
wins practice, they said, Idon't need a parade to do my
job, which I totally heard. Iwas like, I totally hear that.
And will you? Are you willing toexperiment for a week and see
how it goes? Right? Just a week,there's no, there's very little
cost. And we have thisfascinating conversation after
(28:34):
of the reluctant admission thatit was supportive. And so it's
there is very little cost totrying some of these practices
and very big upside. So I haveworked with folks kind of across
the gamut from, you know, biglaw firms, to superintendents to
(28:56):
faculty at, like higher edinstitutions. And many of my
clients are initially reluctant,and then they see the impact. So
I hear you, I hear you corporatefolk who are feeling a little
resistant to this. And what'sthe cost, right?
Erica D'Eramo (29:14):
Yeah, I mean, there's so much power and
curiosity of taking thatexperimenters mindset of
setting. Sure your hypothesismight be that this is a bunch of
BS, but you know, let's see whathappens. And if it's effective,
it's effective. Yeah, yeah.
Rebecca Arnold (29:29):
One piece of science that I like to give
folks who are feeling reluctantis when you walk into it takes
one grumpy person to ruin ameeting. Right? We know that our
moods are contagious, more sothan viruses even you don't need
six feet with a mood, right,that can translate across a huge
ballroom.
Erica D'Eramo (29:50):
Just nothing.
Yeah, totally, totally. And so
Rebecca Arnold (29:54):
think about what's just what's happening in
some of those interactions thatthroughout your day with your
boss. or in a meeting with yoursenior leadership team or your
customers. And if you werecoming from a place with just 2%
more calm, for example, whatwould be the impact of them?
Erica D'Eramo (30:13):
You know, I just had a chance to catch up with
them, like a long term mentor ofmine, and we were talking about,
you know, just navigatingtraffic and stuff. And she was
saying that, you know, well,this is driving on the highways
of Houston, so I will give itsome context. But she was
saying, you know, like, I justwas trying to merge on the
highway, and they wouldn't letme on the highway, you know, or
(30:36):
like, they wouldn't let me offand, and then I finally had to
cut in because I needed to getoff the exit. And then they got
all like Rayji, and like,blaring on the horn and, and all
this stuff. And then that putsme in a crappy mood. And I just
want to like, cut the nextperson off. And this just
extrapolates and goes on and on.
And but she had that awarenessto be like, oh, oh, I'm, I'm
(30:57):
like replicating this now. Yeah,and internalizing it, I gotta
let that go. But how many peopledon't have that awareness to
stop and say, Oh, wait, I don'tneed to replicate this. I don't
need to internalize it. I'mgoing to complete the stress
cycle, I'm going to scream in mycar, play some music, or do
whatever it takes. But I don'tneed to pass this on to other
people. A lot of people don'thave that awareness. Yes.
Rebecca Arnold (31:20):
Yeah, what I really appreciate about your
example is, it's sort of an it'san example of the micro
stressors that build upthroughout the day. So a lot of
us think about the stress of abig presentation, or a huge
board meeting, but not thosetiny moments of the email that
makes your stomach acid royal orbeing cut off in traffic. And
(31:43):
there's a researcher namedRichard Boyatzis, who studies
this and he says, we have 12 ofthese a day or something like
that. And if we're not allowingourselves the recovery time,
these are just accumulatingthroughout their day. So no
wonder you walk in the door.
Grumpy Pants, right? Who Whatdid so yeah, so there are just
so many opportunities throughoutthe day to build in just moments
(32:03):
of restoration to counteract thestress, we're all swimming and
all the time,
Erica D'Eramo (32:10):
which is different to then I'm just gonna
let it go. I'm just gonna let itgo. I'm just gonna like how many
times a lot of us have builtthat in, especially people
dealing with microaggressionsyou know, like having to pick
your fights and deal with thatday in and day out. And you
stay, I'm just gonna let it go.
But like, it's not it. There's adifference between actually
being able to allow things toroll off of you versus just
(32:31):
forcing yourself to censor areaction and yeah, underlying it
up, and then it comes out later.
Rebecca Arnold (32:40):
Absolutely.
Yeah. It's like, pseudo pseudoprocessing. One of the one
practice I love and this isprobably, Lisa Feldman, Barrett.
Barrett did emotionalgranularity, right?
Erica D'Eramo (32:57):
Yeah, I think she did do quite a bit on national
granularity. So
Rebecca Arnold (33:02):
even just the practice of saying to yourself,
I am frustrated. Yep. And justnaming it clearly allowing
yourself to experience that andif you need to move on, you move
on. But there's a reaction thathappens systemically for us of
you can feel your shouldersrelaxed when you validate your
(33:23):
own feeling that you'reexperiencing.
Erica D'Eramo (33:26):
Yeah, we I just hosted a workshop earlier in the
week and one of my like,giveaways or whatever was the
feelings we'll I joked that weneed to, like all print this out
in in large poster format andput it on our wall so that we
can walk over and be like, Okay,it's not just I'm mad, right?
(33:46):
It's like, Okay, let's go alittle more granular what is
that? Because yeah, granularityand the ability to verbalize it
is highly tied in the researchto resilient outcomes. So, yeah,
and we don't develop a lot ofthat vocabulary awareness in our
day to day lives or society,especially not for men. Like,
(34:09):
I'm just gonna say it right. Wereally don't expect that or
require that a lot of, you know,the male tropes in our society.
It's good for you. Because I,
Rebecca Arnold (34:22):
we have I mean, you joke, but we have an emotion
wheel on the bulletin board inmy kitchen that has prime real
estate. You can tell I'm acoach. My kids roll their eyes,
and sometimes they walk over toit and are sort of looked
quizzically trying to identifywhich is the exact thing they're
feeling. And that's what I wantthem to do. That's what I want
for all of us.
Erica D'Eramo (34:42):
Yeah. Is it frustration? Is it resentment?
Is it like enjoy all the Oh,yeah. All the things? Yes.
Rebecca Arnold (34:49):
I mean, it's both what I love about the for
your folks who are feelingresistant. What I also
appreciate about this namingspecifically, what you're
feeling is not just that itcomes Our system but also, it
points us toward a cleareranswer. Right? If you're angry
versus jealous, there's adifferent solution that is baked
into that emotional experience.
But if you're just callingeverything angry, you're missing
(35:12):
the subtlety that points to whatyou should do next.
Erica D'Eramo (35:16):
Yeah, yeah.
There's so often when when youreally get to the underlying
description of it, thegranularity of it, there's so
often an aha moment, right?
Because angry versus resentment.
Okay, what is it that we'refeeling? Or is it do we really
want to buy into that? Is thatreally within our value system,
or angry because I've beenwronged, and I'm hurt, my
(35:37):
feelings are hurt. That's like atotally different pathway to
resolving that or integratingthat. So? Yeah.
Rebecca Arnold (35:47):
So for your listeners who manage teams, if
you start to paying a payattention, in your one on ones
are in your meetings to howpeople are verbalizing their
experiences, you will start tonotice what are some common
emotional themes? And whereyou're missing opportunities to
dig a little deeper into whereare some solutions to what's
(36:10):
going on for folks?
Erica D'Eramo (36:11):
Yeah, yeah, I love that. So what's one way
that you would, you know, helpfolks to cut through all the
noise, right, and to just like,prioritize, you know, what they?
What's the impact they want tohave on the world?
Rebecca Arnold (36:27):
So I love the question. If you knew you were
gonna die in two years, whatremains undone? And there's when
I ask clients that question,there's, it's almost like, we
immediately entered anotherplane of conversation, and
thought, of course, right. Sothat's one very quick way to
(36:48):
access it. Another approach, andI'm sure you do this with your
clients, too, is visualization,and how quickly we can tap into
our deeper levels of knowing andvalues when we kind of slow
ourselves down and imagine thefuture that we want to create.
And there's a there's a qualityof conversation and insight that
(37:12):
happens through visualizations,that is completely different
from thought based questionslike, what's your five year
plan? Right? That's a totallydifferent conversation, than
having the experience of avisualization of imagining five
years in the future. Who are youwith? What's lighting your heart
on fire? What's filling you allthe way up? Who are the what are
(37:36):
the relationships that youdelight in? Right? There's all
this that's accessible throughvisualization. So those are just
a couple of ways. There are lotsof others. But I think it really
takes some awareness that weare, it's almost like our day to
day life is static. And youknow, when they're static in the
(37:57):
background, you don't notice ituntil it's done, and your whole
body exhales. That's what we'rein all the time, right? When we
think about all the inputs thatwe experience throughout the
day. And it's so important tocarve out these quieter moments
of reflection, whether that isjournaling, where you just let
yourself riff, whether that isdoing visualizations, or a
(38:20):
grounding practice, there are somany ways to cut through the
noise and reconnect withyourself and what matters most.
Erica D'Eramo (38:28):
Yeah, I think it's, it's also, when we talk
about some of these practiceslike visualization, I'm sure
that there's like a YouTube wecould watch or something. But
working with somebody whounderstands and can and can
guide some of this can be reallyhelpful because I know I sat
down in in a session one timeand it I was in a period of
(38:51):
flux. I had a lot of anxiety atthe moment. And it was just like
an open ended visualizationabout like, Okay, now project
yourself forward one year,what's happening, and I was not
in the heads, you know, like Ineeded more structure. I was not
in the headspace for that,because it ended up just like
amplifying all the anxiety. LikeI'm living under a bridge I
have, you know, everybody'saround me has died, like all
these awful things. But when youhave somebody who a you've
(39:14):
worked with for a while theyunderstand what's important, and
they can help guide that processso that you're you are
envisioning what it is thatsuccess looks like what does it
feel like? It can help youreally get clear on like, what
it is that you're actuallytrying to strive for, versus
just, you know, some title orsome job or some house? Yeah,
Rebecca Arnold (39:35):
yeah. I mean, even each of those things, is
the experience you want to havein those right. It's not the
house. It's not the title. It'sright. What are you what are
those a signal for and that'swhat we both do in our coaching
is to look beneath kind of whatare those top layer things that
folks are pointing to toexcavate what's underneath that
(39:57):
that they're really craving andwanting? Right?
Erica D'Eramo (40:00):
Those are the those are the means to the ends.
So once the ends, becausethere's probably other means
that might be more effective toget you there. So, no, sorry, go
ahead.
Rebecca Arnold (40:12):
No, I was just gonna say I one thing that I one
practice I really love islooking for where we are
bringing in the How to soon. AndI call it the how monster and my
daughter made this awesomevisual that I will I will send
you a little clip at some point.
But we think that how is thisinnocent little question that
just crops up to help us plan.
(40:35):
But what happens is before wecan even articulate what we get
into the how. So let's say wewant a title of some kind. And
then we start to riff on how buthow can I have this conversation
with my boss? What is that goingto look like? When is that going
to happen? Bob about and we justget more and more stressed
(40:56):
before we even allow ourselvesto articulate? What is the title
and why and what can that looklike and what is possible and
what is available in thatposition. And then we crush any
hope of articulating what wewant. Because of this, how sort
of picking apart energy that canhappen. So I often invite people
(41:18):
to set how aside, especially forfolks who have an atrophied
wanting muscle and just allowyourself to articulate the thing
that you want.
Erica D'Eramo (41:27):
Yeah. Yep. And chances are it's some state of
being right. It's not. And theother things are the way that
you think you'll get to thatstate of Yeah, but yeah, yeah.
So I want to make sure ourlisteners can connect with you
and learn more and find yourbook. So where can they find
(41:49):
you? What's what are the waysthat you have folks connect with
you.
Rebecca Arnold (41:53):
So you can find me at route with two O's,
coaching consulting.com. And atroute coach on Instagram, and
then my book, The routedrenegade will be available on
any platform, you're sort oflooking for June 10, and beyond.
So I am thrilled to launch thisinto the world. And there are so
(42:16):
many practices built into that.
But there are over 50 practicesin that book. And it's sort of
my offering love letter to theworld opportunity to have folks
have a guide book to support youas you go through your journey,
that the biggest compliment tome would be a having my books
binding cracked dog ear. So myhope is that any of you who pick
(42:40):
it up, we'll turn to it again.
And again, when you're wrestlingwith different things, trying to
articulate what you want lookingfor different practices, there's
so much in there. And I wouldlove to hear from any of your
audience that it resonates withand, and all of that. So thank
you for for pointing youraudience there.
Erica D'Eramo (43:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
And we'll link to link to youraccounts and how folks can
connect with you. And we'll besure to include it in our
monthly book list as well. So,so yeah, for anyone looking to
find those links, you can findthem in the show notes. You can
find them on our website, orthis podcast episode. And that's
at twopiersconsulting.com. Andagain, thank you so much,
(43:22):
Rebecca, for coming on andsharing all your insights and in
frameworks really, reallyappreciate it.
Rebecca Arnold (43:29):
Of course it was it has been a delight.
Erica D'Eramo (43:32):
And we look forward to seeing everyone next
episode.
Hello and welcome to the Two Piers podcast. I'm
your host, Erica D'Eramo. Andtoday we have Rebecca Arnold
joining us. So Rebecca is aprofessional certified coach and
the founder of Rooted Coachingand Consulting LLC, a holistic
leadership coaching firm. She'salso the author of The Rooted
Renegade (00:21):
Transform Within, Disrupt the Status Quo, and
Unleash Your Legacy, which willbe published by Greenleaf book
group in June of 2024. The bookis her call to action; part
roadmap and part step by stepguide to create a joyful,
harmonious life that meets thechallenges of our times. Her
clients are mission drivenleaders seeking holistic success
(00:43):
in the fields of education,medicine, law, academia, and
social impact organizations. Andattorney by training, Rebecca
has a background in educationpolicy. More importantly, she's
known as a straight talking bighearted coach. She also happens
to be a dog mom, a human mom,and a spunky wife. We are so
(01:04):
excited to have Rebecca, join ustoday and share some of her
insights on creating a rootedlife.
Rebecca, Hi, thanks for joiningus.
Rebecca Arnold (01:23):
It is a pleasure to be with you. Thanks for
having me.
Erica D'Eramo (01:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
So let's just start with kind ofmy typical question that I asked
every guest, tell us a littlebit about your origin story. So
what what brought you to theRebecca that we meet today,
Rebecca Arnold (01:42):
So many things like most people. So I studied
psychology in college, and I wasdeeply fascinated with education
policy, which led me to lawschool to work on equity issues
in education. And I worked inthe federal government, which
was a fascinating socialexperiment. And how big change
(02:08):
happens and seeing kind of howthe sausage gets made behind the
scenes, which is probably aconversation for another day.
And then after that, I had mytwo kids, and I was doing
consulting with education,nonprofits. And I finally found
my dream job. I was ecstatic. Iwas doing policy work in the
(02:30):
education space, we were makingtectonic impacts in education
systems, there was brand newlegislation, I was on top of the
world. And you know where thisis going. I colossally burned
out. And I had a real crisis ofa call this like values
(02:53):
collision, where my valuesaround social impact and
education equity and all of thatwere conflicting with my own
well being my values of familyand connection, I was traveling
a lot and not able to show upfor my kids in the way that I
wanted. And I really wasn'tprioritizing my physical and
(03:14):
mental health. So I entered thisperiod of extreme burnout and
kind of collapse. And throughthat process, there was a long
healing journey. And as a partof that, I started asking myself
this question of, What do I donext? If I've just experienced
(03:36):
my dream job, and that is nolonger an option? Where do I go
next? It was this realexistential reckoning. And I
started reconnecting with mypsychology roots. And I
remembered somewhere in the backof my mind this idea about
coaching that I'd heard aboutsomewhere along the way. And so
I took a class in coaching. AndI, you know, that experience
(03:59):
when it feels like puzzlepieces, just click into place,
and it's your you have this likefull body? Yes, that is how it
felt after having this coachingexperience. And so it was very
clear to me that that was mydirection, and a way to
integrate lots of differentinterests that I have and
support folks along the way,especially in particular to
(04:21):
avoid the experience that I hadat burnout.
Erica D'Eramo (04:24):
Yeah, that origin story absolutely resonates for
me, and I'm sure resonates for alot of folks listening of you
know, when you find somethingthat you think is the dream,
there is almost like an identitycrisis that happens when you
realize that the future you'denvisioned is not going to be
the path that you're going totake. So yeah, absolutely. Yeah,
(04:45):
really.
Rebecca Arnold (04:45):
And lots of folks feel lost in that gap up
trying to figure out what's nextbecause we don't talk about that
enough.
Erica D'Eramo (04:52):
Yeah, yeah. Yes.
Especially on this journey thatwe've set out for so so many
folks cuz in society of like,you go to school and you get
that you get your high schooldone, and then you go to
undergrad, and then maybe you gointo corporate and you go on
that ladder, or maybe you go tograd school and you go on that
ladder. So when you sort ofrealize like, Oh, I'm not going
(05:13):
to stay on this ladder, Oh, no.
What now?
Rebecca Arnold (05:17):
Right.
Erica D'Eramo (05:18):
Yeah.
Rebecca Arnold (05:18):
And some of these letters are very long. I
mean, the fact that academicfaculty I work with have been in
their field for 20 yearssometimes and are on the tenure
track, and then are looking atam I even interested in this
field of study anymore? Whichcauses a whole reckoning with
the choices? A person may havemade it 25.
Erica D'Eramo (05:38):
Right. Right.
Right. And introduces elementsof grief and yeah, and identity,
like you mentioned. Yeah. Soyou've talked a little bit about
what drew you to this work. Tellme a little bit more about, you
know, what makes it important toyou.
Rebecca Arnold (05:55):
I have this sort of notion that if you know, that
idea that the medicine that'sneeded for the planet exists on
the planet itself, I have asimilar thought about humans
that if everyone were actuallyable to access their gifts,
talents, the lessons of theirexperiences, and bring that
(06:17):
unapologetically, we would beable to solve our most pressing
challenges on the planet, in ourcommunities in our families. But
there's so much energy wastedwith stifled passion, intention
and gifts, that we all miss out.
And I am so committed to peoplebeing able to access the part of
them that may have they may havecast aside a long time ago or
(06:40):
might not feel entitled to leaninto and recapture that energy
for their own benefit. And forall of our benefits. So that is
what lights me all the way up.
And I get pumped when I'mworking with people who are
ready to make the shifts thatthat might require. And I just
(07:02):
love watching the cascadingimpacts of those changes for
folks in their workplaces andtheir families in their
communities. You can watch ithappen. Yeah, sure. You have a
similar experience with yourclients too.
Erica D'Eramo (07:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think I've I've been goingon this kind of evolution in my
coaching and consulting journey.
But it sounds very similar inthat, you know, I started
working with individuals. Andthat's important, right, but I
wanted to make system changes.
And then I started to work withthe systems and organizations.
But I've kind of come fullcircle back to the individuals
(07:39):
because they are the agents ofchange. Right? It is, it is
working with these individualswho will shape the world. And so
yeah, as coaches, I think wework with, we work one on one
with people. But the point isthat they have the impact in the
world that they want and need tohave. So
Rebecca Arnold (07:59):
absolutely. And I think about the leaders who I
support and the 1000s of folksthey're responsible for, and
their families and theircommunities and one small shift
and how they're showing up hastremendous impact. And so it's
so it just seeds, so muchpossibility for them and for
(08:21):
those around them that you can'thelp but get excited about it as
a coach. Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo (08:27):
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So So tell me a
little bit more about theconcept of being rooted in
peace, which is sort of one ofthe foundational elements of
your, your upcoming book. Sodescribe to me what that looks
like, what is rooted peace?
Rebecca Arnold (08:42):
Yeah, so I think about rooted peace from three,
it's sort of the constellationof three different elements. The
first is this idea of internalpeace. So building the capacity
to have greater resilience tocounteract stress, whether that
is through breath, work, throughvisualization, through
(09:05):
connecting with what mattersmost to you. The second piece is
existential peace. Are youliving your purpose? Are you
aligned with your valuesholistically in the span of your
life? Are you supportingyourself in your day to day, are
you breaking yourself down? Andthen the third piece is
relational. The third element isrelational peace, which is your
(09:29):
relationship with yourself andwith other people. And the way
that I think about this idea ofrooted peace is that in order to
have this Mind, Body heartexperience of everything feels
right in our lives, we reallyneed those three components. And
my invitation in this book andalways is not to seek
(09:51):
perfection, because all of usare working in those three
elements throughout our lives.
But it's more of a framework forhow to look at at what's working
in your life, and what's not andwhat to do about it. And I am
really committed to practicalthings. So there are tons of
practices built throughout thisframework to support people to
(10:12):
have an impact in those threeareas.
Erica D'Eramo (10:18):
Yeah, I don't know how many books I've read
that are great conceptually. Andin theory, and you finish and
you're like, Man, that was sucha good read. And then you go
back to life as normal, becausethere was nothing tactical,
measurable that you could putinto practice and start to embed
those over time. So yeah,that's, that's great. So, you
(10:40):
know, you sort of took your ownjourney and stepped off the
train, the train tracks. Andthat probably involved a lot of
reframing what you wanted out oflife. And it sounds like that's
maybe a thread with your clientsreframing. So how does this
concept shape your concept ofsuccess than or how you view
(11:03):
success.
Rebecca Arnold (11:06):
So we are all in the US anyway, swimming in a, in
a culture that prioritizes Go,go go capitalism, top dog, all
of that stuff. And we have, mostof us have grown up with a
traditional notion of successthat looks like that. But when
(11:26):
we think about the things thatwe actually want, so when people
talk about wanting more money,for example, they don't want to
jump in a pile of money. I mean,that might be like an
interesting experience. Butthat's not what people are
actually after
Erica D'Eramo (11:39):
So many germs.
Rebecca Arnold (11:43):
What they actually want is the experience
that they think having thatmoney will get them. What
they're usually seeking is calm,tranquility, adventure, a life
that looks that feels good onthe inside, and reflects who
they feel like they are. And sowhen I think about success, it's
(12:05):
what are the things that aregoing to give you the mind,
heart and soul experience ofawe? And yes, simultaneously.
And that's the thing, when Ithink about for my own kids,
what I want for them, that'swhat I want for them. And I also
want for them to know how topick themselves back up and be a
(12:27):
partner for themselvesthroughout their journey. And so
those are some of the pieces ofsuccess and the ways that I look
at success. And what my clientsare really wrestling with often
is when they have followed this,these long ladders that we've
talked about, and they thoughtthat success will be on the
other side and happiness. Andthen they experience a gap of I
(12:50):
am successful, quote unquote,and miserable on the inside. And
I'm not Okay with that. I'm sureyou're not Okay with that
either. And when I think aboutrooted peace, the objective is
to get people that alignment ofthe outside and the inside their
experiences. Meech, yeah,
Erica D'Eramo (13:08):
I mean, I think that, right, that it's such a
complex discussion, becauseespecially in a right, we live
in capitalism, and and Maslow'shierarchy of needs, we need a
roof over our heads, and we needfood. And sometimes we can't
take that for granted,especially with inflation and
everything happening. And also,this acknowledgment that even
(13:30):
once you start to meet the lowerbaseline, Maslow's hierarchy of
needs, we start to explore thoseupper echelons of it. And if you
don't have those, either, youstill won't have what it is that
money or titles or whatever issupposed to give us. Yes to be
holistic, right?
Rebecca Arnold (13:52):
Absolutely.
Yeah. It's also a piece that Isee. I don't know what your
experiences with your clients,but I think of it as like an
atrophied wanting muscle forfolks who are women and other
marginalized identities, havinga hard time even connecting with
what they want, and what isgonna fill them up. That is not
(14:13):
from external sources, but isactually comes internally and as
deeply felt.
Erica D'Eramo (14:21):
Yes, yeah, that was that's I just recently with
a client had a conversationabout, you know, taking a
different role, and it would bea lower title, but it would give
much more, you know, quality oflife, but it would be a step
down. But the pay would be thesame, you know, and it was it
was interesting, because it waslike, well, there's nothing
(14:43):
wrong with putting value on thetitle is Are you actively
intentionally opting into thatas a value or did is this
inherited, inherited didsomebody give this to you as a
value because the structure thesystem, the organization, they A
benefit off of you internalizingthat, as you know, tied to your
(15:04):
value as a human. But do youactually do that? And it turns
out the answer was no.
Rebecca Arnold (15:10):
Yep. Yeah. I mean, even in our language,
right, like a step down, yeah,we're taking a step into a
higher quality. Who decided thattitle was a step down? So it's
embedded throughout?
Erica D'Eramo (15:25):
Yeah, that was my client's language, not mine.
Right. Like they that was? Yeah.
Which is is such a signal to towin how we view that? Yeah, it's
like, well, you know, how muchmoney would you pay for peace of
mind? And let's put $1 amount onthat to, for you to see just how
valuable it actually is for you.
Rebecca Arnold (15:49):
Right? I mean, when you think about, sometimes
I do this thought exercise withclients, like, what is this?
What is this job actuallycosting you? And we go through?
Well, I have to go to the doctorthree times a year to check on
this thing. That is, I'm notpaying any attention to, I need
to take these expensivevacations to recover, I have to
(16:10):
have coverage for my kids,because I'm not able to show up
for them in the way that I want.
I have to, I spent a lot offrivolous money because I'm
trying to numb out. Right. Andwhen you start to add all that
up, it is deeply expensive tonot be aligned with what you
actually want. Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo (16:29):
yeah. I know that the compounding interest on
wellbeing is probably somethingthat we can't calculate. Wow.
Yeah. So you know, what are someways that you feel folks can,
you know, use the wisdom and thepower that they inherently have
to go from maybe where they'reat right now to building
(16:51):
something that looks moresustainable for them.
Rebecca Arnold (16:55):
So one piece, which dovetails on what we were
just talking about is, I callthis notion dancing with
mortality. We have this ideathat mortality is so far off,
and for most of us, and it isjust a lie, we tell ourselves to
get through the day, which ofcourse we have to right, if we
were every moment thinking aboutour mortality, we wouldn't be
(17:16):
able to function, right? And wewe sort of cast mortality, we
kind of cover our eyes and lookaway. And what I often invite
people into is to have the senseof dancing with mortality, which
looks like bringing it a littlemore into your conscious
awareness. Like maybe once aweek, hey, I'm X number of years
(17:41):
old, how many more years do Iactually have left? And how do I
want those to look? And there'sa zooming out quality that
happens at a reprioritizing thathappens as soon as we start to
have that kind of aconversation.
Erica D'Eramo (17:54):
Yeah, I mean, there's a, I don't want to call
it a trope. But this it's kindof well known now that you know,
the astronauts that get to seethe earth, from afar have this
complete existential shiftabout, you know, where we are
and what a miracle it is that weeven exist. And for me that
(18:16):
dancing with mortality, anyonewho's listened to the podcast
for a while has heard me tellthe story about like, snapping
into a helicopter see, and sortof having it front of mine that
there had been a bunch ofhelicopter crashes in the
industry and beyond what if thishelicopter goes down? Did I do
what I wanted to do in life?
Well, I have regrets on the waydown, like, certainly sadness
and fear, but like regrets abouthow I spent my time. And the
(18:38):
answer was yes, that day, and itwas a real, like, wake up call
for me. And anyone who's dealingwith illness, or anytime we hear
these things in the media about,or in our communities, even
about, you know, like, massshootings or just real
tragedies, it's a, it's areminder, like tomorrow is not,
(18:59):
tomorrow is not a given.
Absolutely.
Rebecca Arnold (19:05):
And it puts that email you've been fighting over
into the perspective it needs tobe in. And it's so easy to kind
of slingshot back into our dayto day. So the invitation is
just to periodically bring itinto your awareness. Another
piece that I another kind ofpractice that I think about in
terms of activating the wisdomthat you hold inside is we have
(19:30):
most of my clients and I'm surethis is your experience, too,
that kind of operate from theneck up. And we're so used to
relying on our brain in Westernculture. Of course, our brains
are delightful. And there is
Erica D'Eramo (19:42):
I don't know Speak for yourself
Rebecca Arnold (19:48):
or frustrated with mine too. And there is so
much wisdom, intuition,understanding from the neck down
that we often to now And so,most, most of us are kind of
under practiced in payingattention to the signals that
our body is giving us. And it isone of the quickest ways to
(20:11):
access our intuition and help usmake reprioritize and make some
of the critical decisions in ourlives. And so I often work with
folks to kind of re kind offorge a new relationship with
the wisdom of their bodies. Andthat can look like when you have
an ache talk, I know that soundsa little wacky, but talking to
(20:32):
your ache, what are you tryingto tell me? What do you need me
to know? And as you startasking, those kinds of
questions, your body will startto answer. So there's, this is a
whole realm. I mean, yoursomatic practice is a whole
realm that has so much richness,and is not talked enough about I
think, in leadership kind ofspaces and circles and within
(20:54):
organizations.
Erica D'Eramo (20:56):
Yeah, there's a an author named Lisa Feldman
Barrett, she wrote, yeah, howemotions are made. And so as
you're talking through this,it's just reminding me that,
like, our brain is interpretinga lot of things. And it's really
just reading what's happening inour body that's, that is
happening in order to keep usalive. Yep. And then we add
context, we add meaning we addhistory. And then we come up
(21:21):
with a word and we say, Oh, I'mscared, or I'm this, or I'm
that. But really, it's thethings are happening in our
bodies. And then we can be morereflective and intentional about
that and more observant.
Rebecca Arnold (21:38):
Yeah, it's so interesting to me, I don't know
if that you've had thisexperience, but lots of books
talk about the need foremotional intelligence, and
social intelligence and all ofthat. And oftentimes, that work
can be intellectual in a waythat is great, and is missing
the complementary piece of, ifit's hard for you to identify
(22:01):
the imprints of differentemotions in your body, it's very
hard for you to be compassionateand empathetic with other folks
and understand your ownemotional interior life. And so
of course, there can be a gap incollaboration and communication
and teamwork and all thosethings that our leaders and
organizations value so much.
Erica D'Eramo (22:21):
Yeah, yeah. That the word interoception a lot of
like, throw that out there. Alot of people are not familiar
with that word, but it meansright, being able to know what
is happening in your body. Andif that's not, there's a reason
it's called a practice, right?
This is not something that youjust decide tomorrow, I'm going
to be aware of what's happeningin my body. So that's why
working with a coach, likeyourself can be so valuable,
(22:43):
because it's bringing back tothat like coming back using the
practices being building thatawareness over time. And it's a
muscle that we build in a way,right? Absolutely. Yeah. So how
do you feel folks can start toown their own capabilities, you
know, even when they're in awork environment, that's maybe
(23:04):
not sending them the mostpositive messages or can be
filled with, you know, a lot ofeither toxicity or just
criticality. And so, what's someadvice you have?
Rebecca Arnold (23:18):
Yeah, so I love this question. Thank you. There
are so many small practices thatcan make a huge impact. And one
that I love is simply at the endof the day, writing down three
wins you had that day, it can beI smiled at a jerk today. From
(23:39):
that to Iraq to thatpresentation, right, it can be
as micro as you want to make itor as macro as you want to make
it. But one of the opportunitiesof a practice like that is that
if you know what's coming at theend of the day, you'll start to
look for your wins throughoutthe day. And it's a very simple
way of counteracting a toxicculture, not that this is going
(24:02):
to fix everything. Of course,the toxic culture is systemic,
and it's not an individual'sresponsibility to metabolize
that. And while you are workingin that system and trying to
either negotiate, change ornegotiate your out, there are
practices you can do to startfeeling incrementally better.
And this is one of them. So itwill start to counteract your
(24:25):
our all humans have a naturalnegativity bias, it will start
to counteract that and we'llstart you'll start to notice the
cumulative winds you havethroughout the day and
throughout the week. And I lovewatching and my clients when
they start to do this initially,some of my clients are
resistant. I don't know if youhave this experience, but people
are so used to beatingthemselves up they worry if they
(24:46):
stop, they're going to fallapart.
Erica D'Eramo (24:49):
Yeah, I Yes. I think that that is such a
fascinating thing to explore aswell because it's almost like
you know, the Marie Kondo likeOkay, take that parasites think
it for what it's done for youand send it on its way. And I
feel like that sometimes withour hyper criticality, these
voices that we've developed overtime, it's probably kept us
(25:13):
safe. They probably helped usExcel especially over, you know,
high performers, overachiever,overachievers. And so like
acknowledging the role itplayed, because we don't want to
demonize it mean, recognizingthat it's no longer only option,
and it's probably not reallyserving us that effectively
going forward. So exploring whatthat might look like. But I, I
(25:36):
really appreciate this framingversus I know that there's a lot
around gratitude. And I, I know,there's a lot of research around
the effectiveness of gratitudepractice. But I love this idea
of like capturing your wins,that you are proud of, because
it's a reminder, that buildsconfidence in your own
capabilities. Because confidentwe know right? Like confidence
(25:59):
doesn't come from just tellingyourself, you're confident I
hate this narrative for women,like just believe in yourself.
No, look at the evidence,there's evidence there that you
are amazing. Go look.
Rebecca Arnold (26:12):
And the what I would add, so this applies
actually to gratitude practices,and also to practice like
writing down your wins. If youwrite down your wins, and then
allow yourself a few moments toexperience the the sensations of
pride in your body of havingaccomplished those wins, it will
(26:32):
stay with you longer and have abigger impact. Rick Hansen, I'm
sure you've read Rick Hansen'swork like neuro Dharma and the
pursuit of happiness, I thinkit's called looking on my
bookshelf. He talks about thispractice of with gratitude, if
you hold on to it longer, alittle longer, and let it soak
(26:53):
into your body. It has such aricher impact than just writing
down a list of gratitudes. Andthen moving on to your email.
Right, which totally makessense, right? We hang on to it
in a positive way. Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo (27:06):
I could see folks listening in and especially
those like hardened corporatefolks. This all sounds woowoo to
me, blah, blah, blah, no, like,man, it's in this really isn't
the science. And fundamentally,it comes down to surviving into
the life you want to be livingbecause so much of detaching
(27:29):
from what's happening in ourbodies and detaching from that
flight fight or flight responsemeans that are we stay in that
right? We are constantly in ajust soaked with cortisol, and
we're more at risk for chronicillnesses or more at risk for
toxic behaviors towards thepeople around us, whether that's
(27:49):
family, employees, colleagues.
So there are very practical andsound reasons that taking this
like internal view, embracingsome of these mindsets. They
have like, very immediateimpacts on our lives and in our
performance. And yeah, yep.
(28:12):
Yeah,
Rebecca Arnold (28:12):
I had a client who when we talked about this
wins practice, they said, Idon't need a parade to do my
job, which I totally heard. Iwas like, I totally hear that.
And will you? Are you willing toexperiment for a week and see
how it goes? Right? Just a week,there's no, there's very little
cost. And we have thisfascinating conversation after
(28:34):
of the reluctant admission thatit was supportive. And so it's
there is very little cost totrying some of these practices
and very big upside. So I haveworked with folks kind of across
the gamut from, you know, biglaw firms, to superintendents to
(28:56):
faculty at, like higher edinstitutions. And many of my
clients are initially reluctant,and then they see the impact. So
I hear you, I hear you corporatefolk who are feeling a little
resistant to this. And what'sthe cost, right?
Erica D'Eramo (29:14):
Yeah, I mean, there's so much power and
curiosity of taking thatexperimenters mindset of
setting. Sure your hypothesismight be that this is a bunch of
BS, but you know, let's see whathappens. And if it's effective,
it's effective. Yeah, yeah.
Rebecca Arnold (29:29):
One piece of science that I like to give
folks who are feeling reluctantis when you walk into it takes
one grumpy person to ruin ameeting. Right? We know that our
moods are contagious, more sothan viruses even you don't need
six feet with a mood, right,that can translate across a huge
ballroom.
Erica D'Eramo (29:50):
Just nothing.
Yeah, totally, totally. And so
Rebecca Arnold (29:54):
think about what's just what's happening in
some of those interactions thatthroughout your day with your
boss. or in a meeting with yoursenior leadership team or your
customers. And if you werecoming from a place with just 2%
more calm, for example, whatwould be the impact of them?
Erica D'Eramo (30:13):
You know, I just had a chance to catch up with
them, like a long term mentor ofmine, and we were talking about,
you know, just navigatingtraffic and stuff. And she was
saying that, you know, well,this is driving on the highways
of Houston, so I will give itsome context. But she was
saying, you know, like, I justwas trying to merge on the
highway, and they wouldn't letme on the highway, you know, or
(30:36):
like, they wouldn't let me offand, and then I finally had to
cut in because I needed to getoff the exit. And then they got
all like Rayji, and like,blaring on the horn and, and all
this stuff. And then that putsme in a crappy mood. And I just
want to like, cut the nextperson off. And this just
extrapolates and goes on and on.
And but she had that awarenessto be like, oh, oh, I'm, I'm
(30:57):
like replicating this now. Yeah,and internalizing it, I gotta
let that go. But how many peopledon't have that awareness to
stop and say, Oh, wait, I don'tneed to replicate this. I don't
need to internalize it. I'mgoing to complete the stress
cycle, I'm going to scream in mycar, play some music, or do
whatever it takes. But I don'tneed to pass this on to other
people. A lot of people don'thave that awareness. Yes.
Rebecca Arnold (31:20):
Yeah, what I really appreciate about your
example is, it's sort of an it'san example of the micro
stressors that build upthroughout the day. So a lot of
us think about the stress of abig presentation, or a huge
board meeting, but not thosetiny moments of the email that
makes your stomach acid royal orbeing cut off in traffic. And
(31:43):
there's a researcher namedRichard Boyatzis, who studies
this and he says, we have 12 ofthese a day or something like
that. And if we're not allowingourselves the recovery time,
these are just accumulatingthroughout their day. So no
wonder you walk in the door.
Grumpy Pants, right? Who Whatdid so yeah, so there are just
so many opportunities throughoutthe day to build in just moments
(32:03):
of restoration to counteract thestress, we're all swimming and
all the time,
Erica D'Eramo (32:10):
which is different to then I'm just gonna
let it go. I'm just gonna let itgo. I'm just gonna like how many
times a lot of us have builtthat in, especially people
dealing with microaggressionsyou know, like having to pick
your fights and deal with thatday in and day out. And you
stay, I'm just gonna let it go.
But like, it's not it. There's adifference between actually
being able to allow things toroll off of you versus just
(32:31):
forcing yourself to censor areaction and yeah, underlying it
up, and then it comes out later.
Rebecca Arnold (32:40):
Absolutely.
Yeah. It's like, pseudo pseudoprocessing. One of the one
practice I love and this isprobably, Lisa Feldman, Barrett.
Barrett did emotionalgranularity, right?
Erica D'Eramo (32:57):
Yeah, I think she did do quite a bit on national
granularity. So
Rebecca Arnold (33:02):
even just the practice of saying to yourself,
I am frustrated. Yep. And justnaming it clearly allowing
yourself to experience that andif you need to move on, you move
on. But there's a reaction thathappens systemically for us of
you can feel your shouldersrelaxed when you validate your
(33:23):
own feeling that you'reexperiencing.
Erica D'Eramo (33:26):
Yeah, we I just hosted a workshop earlier in the
week and one of my like,giveaways or whatever was the
feelings we'll I joked that weneed to, like all print this out
in in large poster format andput it on our wall so that we
can walk over and be like, Okay,it's not just I'm mad, right?
(33:46):
It's like, Okay, let's go alittle more granular what is
that? Because yeah, granularityand the ability to verbalize it
is highly tied in the researchto resilient outcomes. So, yeah,
and we don't develop a lot ofthat vocabulary awareness in our
day to day lives or society,especially not for men. Like,
(34:09):
I'm just gonna say it right. Wereally don't expect that or
require that a lot of, you know,the male tropes in our society.
It's good for you. Because I,
Rebecca Arnold (34:22):
we have I mean, you joke, but we have an emotion
wheel on the bulletin board inmy kitchen that has prime real
estate. You can tell I'm acoach. My kids roll their eyes,
and sometimes they walk over toit and are sort of looked
quizzically trying to identifywhich is the exact thing they're
feeling. And that's what I wantthem to do. That's what I want
for all of us.
Erica D'Eramo (34:42):
Yeah. Is it frustration? Is it resentment?
Is it like enjoy all the Oh,yeah. All the things? Yes.
Rebecca Arnold (34:49):
I mean, it's both what I love about the for
your folks who are feelingresistant. What I also
appreciate about this namingspecifically, what you're
feeling is not just that itcomes Our system but also, it
points us toward a cleareranswer. Right? If you're angry
versus jealous, there's adifferent solution that is baked
into that emotional experience.
But if you're just callingeverything angry, you're missing
(35:12):
the subtlety that points to whatyou should do next.
Erica D'Eramo (35:16):
Yeah, yeah.
There's so often when when youreally get to the underlying
description of it, thegranularity of it, there's so
often an aha moment, right?
Because angry versus resentment.
Okay, what is it that we'refeeling? Or is it do we really
want to buy into that? Is thatreally within our value system,
or angry because I've beenwronged, and I'm hurt, my
(35:37):
feelings are hurt. That's like atotally different pathway to
resolving that or integratingthat. So? Yeah.
Rebecca Arnold (35:47):
So for your listeners who manage teams, if
you start to paying a payattention, in your one on ones
are in your meetings to howpeople are verbalizing their
experiences, you will start tonotice what are some common
emotional themes? And whereyou're missing opportunities to
dig a little deeper into whereare some solutions to what's
(36:10):
going on for folks?
Erica D'Eramo (36:11):
Yeah, yeah, I love that. So what's one way
that you would, you know, helpfolks to cut through all the
noise, right, and to just like,prioritize, you know, what they?
What's the impact they want tohave on the world?
Rebecca Arnold (36:27):
So I love the question. If you knew you were
gonna die in two years, whatremains undone? And there's when
I ask clients that question,there's, it's almost like, we
immediately entered anotherplane of conversation, and
thought, of course, right. Sothat's one very quick way to
(36:48):
access it. Another approach, andI'm sure you do this with your
clients, too, is visualization,and how quickly we can tap into
our deeper levels of knowing andvalues when we kind of slow
ourselves down and imagine thefuture that we want to create.
And there's a there's a qualityof conversation and insight that
(37:12):
happens through visualizations,that is completely different
from thought based questionslike, what's your five year
plan? Right? That's a totallydifferent conversation, than
having the experience of avisualization of imagining five
years in the future. Who are youwith? What's lighting your heart
on fire? What's filling you allthe way up? Who are the what are
(37:36):
the relationships that youdelight in? Right? There's all
this that's accessible throughvisualization. So those are just
a couple of ways. There are lotsof others. But I think it really
takes some awareness that weare, it's almost like our day to
day life is static. And youknow, when they're static in the
(37:57):
background, you don't notice ituntil it's done, and your whole
body exhales. That's what we'rein all the time, right? When we
think about all the inputs thatwe experience throughout the
day. And it's so important tocarve out these quieter moments
of reflection, whether that isjournaling, where you just let
yourself riff, whether that isdoing visualizations, or a
(38:20):
grounding practice, there are somany ways to cut through the
noise and reconnect withyourself and what matters most.
Erica D'Eramo (38:28):
Yeah, I think it's, it's also, when we talk
about some of these practiceslike visualization, I'm sure
that there's like a YouTube wecould watch or something. But
working with somebody whounderstands and can and can
guide some of this can be reallyhelpful because I know I sat
down in in a session one timeand it I was in a period of
(38:51):
flux. I had a lot of anxiety atthe moment. And it was just like
an open ended visualizationabout like, Okay, now project
yourself forward one year,what's happening, and I was not
in the heads, you know, like Ineeded more structure. I was not
in the headspace for that,because it ended up just like
amplifying all the anxiety. LikeI'm living under a bridge I
have, you know, everybody'saround me has died, like all
these awful things. But when youhave somebody who a you've
(39:14):
worked with for a while theyunderstand what's important, and
they can help guide that processso that you're you are
envisioning what it is thatsuccess looks like what does it
feel like? It can help youreally get clear on like, what
it is that you're actuallytrying to strive for, versus
just, you know, some title orsome job or some house? Yeah,
Rebecca Arnold (39:35):
yeah. I mean, even each of those things, is
the experience you want to havein those right. It's not the
house. It's not the title. It'sright. What are you what are
those a signal for and that'swhat we both do in our coaching
is to look beneath kind of whatare those top layer things that
folks are pointing to toexcavate what's underneath that
(39:57):
that they're really craving andwanting? Right?
Erica D'Eramo (40:00):
Those are the those are the means to the ends.
So once the ends, becausethere's probably other means
that might be more effective toget you there. So, no, sorry, go
ahead.
Rebecca Arnold (40:12):
No, I was just gonna say I one thing that I one
practice I really love islooking for where we are
bringing in the How to soon. AndI call it the how monster and my
daughter made this awesomevisual that I will I will send
you a little clip at some point.
But we think that how is thisinnocent little question that
just crops up to help us plan.
(40:35):
But what happens is before wecan even articulate what we get
into the how. So let's say wewant a title of some kind. And
then we start to riff on how buthow can I have this conversation
with my boss? What is that goingto look like? When is that going
to happen? Bob about and we justget more and more stressed
(40:56):
before we even allow ourselvesto articulate? What is the title
and why and what can that looklike and what is possible and
what is available in thatposition. And then we crush any
hope of articulating what wewant. Because of this, how sort
of picking apart energy that canhappen. So I often invite people
(41:18):
to set how aside, especially forfolks who have an atrophied
wanting muscle and just allowyourself to articulate the thing
that you want.
Erica D'Eramo (41:27):
Yeah. Yep. And chances are it's some state of
being right. It's not. And theother things are the way that
you think you'll get to thatstate of Yeah, but yeah, yeah.
So I want to make sure ourlisteners can connect with you
and learn more and find yourbook. So where can they find
(41:49):
you? What's what are the waysthat you have folks connect with
you.
Rebecca Arnold (41:53):
So you can find me at route with two O's,
coaching consulting.com. And atroute coach on Instagram, and
then my book, The routedrenegade will be available on
any platform, you're sort oflooking for June 10, and beyond.
So I am thrilled to launch thisinto the world. And there are so
(42:16):
many practices built into that.
But there are over 50 practicesin that book. And it's sort of
my offering love letter to theworld opportunity to have folks
have a guide book to support youas you go through your journey,
that the biggest compliment tome would be a having my books
binding cracked dog ear. So myhope is that any of you who pick
(42:40):
it up, we'll turn to it again.
And again, when you're wrestlingwith different things, trying to
articulate what you want lookingfor different practices, there's
so much in there. And I wouldlove to hear from any of your
audience that it resonates withand, and all of that. So thank
you for for pointing youraudience there.
Erica D'Eramo (43:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
And we'll link to link to youraccounts and how folks can
connect with you. And we'll besure to include it in our
monthly book list as well. So,so yeah, for anyone looking to
find those links, you can findthem in the show notes. You can
find them on our website, orthis podcast episode. And that's
at twopiersconsulting.com. Andagain, thank you so much,
(43:22):
Rebecca, for coming on andsharing all your insights and in
frameworks really, reallyappreciate it.
Rebecca Arnold (43:29):
Of course it was it has been a delight.
Erica D'Eramo (43:32):
And we look forward to seeing everyone next
episode.
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