October 6, 2023 • 32 mins
We delve deep into the heart of the opioid crisis, focusing on the devastating impact of fentanyl. Our special guest, Melanie Yates, LMSW, a May 2023 graduate from the University of Maryland School of Social Work, shares her personal journey of loss and her relentless pursuit to make a difference.
Melanie's efforts led to the passing of the Josh Siems Act, a groundbreaking legislation that mandates Maryland hospitals to test for fentanyl. October is National Substance Abuse Prevention Month, so please join us as we discuss the importance of substance abuse awareness, the challenges of navigating the political system, and the hope for a safer future.
Warning: This episode discusses topics of addiction, overdose, and family loss.
Listen to The UMB Pulse on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you like to listen. The UMB Pulse is also now on YouTube.
Visit our website at umaryland.edu/pulse or email us at umbpulse@umaryland.edu.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dana Rampolla (00:03):
October is National Substance Abuse
Prevention Month.
So here on the UMB Pulse, we'dlike to take this opportunity to
speak with a recent graduate ofthe University of Maryland
School of Social Work, MelanieYates.
Melanie graduated this pastspring and she received her
Master of Social Work in May.
And she's already been making atremendous impact here in
(00:24):
Maryland.
And actually she started beforeshe even graduated.
Um, she submitted a bill that'snow known as the Josh Siems Act,
which was named for her lateboyfriend who passed away from a
fentanyl overdose.
Um, the act requires Marylandhospitals to test for fentanyl
now, which is something thatnormally has not been done in
the past.
(00:45):
And it was signed into law byGovernor Wes Moore in the
spring.
The law became effective onOctober 1st.
For her extraordinary work,Melanie was awarded the Clinical
Fieldwork Award from the Schoolof Social Work, Office of Field
Education, an exemplary clinicalaward, which is chosen by her
peers.
So, a word of caution to ourlisteners.
This episode tacklesconversations about addiction,
(01:07):
about overdose, and about familyloss.
It hits close to home for me astwo years ago, I lost my
youngest brother due to afentanyl overdose.
And this legislation was not inplace then.
So I think it's an encouragingconversation.
I hope that you can listenthrough its entirety to hear not
only the great work that Melaniehas done, but how laws are
(01:29):
changing to help our own familymembers who might have
addictions and who might gothrough something like this in,
in their
Jena Frick (01:36):
lives.
You're listening to theheartbeat of the University of
Maryland, Baltimore, the UMBPulse.
Charles Schelle (01:56):
Melanie, uh, thank you for joining us and
being here on the UMB Pulse toshare your journey and your
story.
We hope this can help not onlyinspire others.
But ultimately save livesthrough the work that you're
doing.
Melanie Yates (02:09):
Thank you so much for having me.
Dana Rampolla (02:11):
In our opening, we referenced your work and how
you've helped make somesignificant changes in the area
of drug use in Maryland and drugtesting in Maryland.
And here on the UMB Pulse, welike to talk about our change
makers, people who are from theuniversity who are making a
difference in the real world.
And as a recent graduate of theuniversity, you have a great
story to tell.
(02:31):
So before we get into discussingyour meaningful work, let's
start with who you are.
You were a student at AmericanUniversity.
You received a bachelor's degreein environmental science.
So what were your originalaspirations and how were you led
to wanting to even work inbehavioral health?
Melanie Yates (02:48):
So when I originally was in school, I
really wanted to be a marinebiologist, um, and I really
wanted to study sharks and I,that's why I pursued an
undergrad in environmentalscience, um, did a bunch of
internships, didn't findanything I really loved.
So for the remainder of mytwenties, really, um, I tried
every job known to man.
(03:09):
My brother said I should be acareer coach because I tried
everything.
Um, I, you know, moved toNashville, I moved abroad for
four years.
I worked everywhere, I worked inbars, I worked as a barista, um,
I worked in merchandising for awhile.
Tried.
Um, and then when the pandemichit, I think I just like
(03:31):
everybody else was trying toreassess your life.
Um, and I was trying to figureout what brought me meaning
because I just wasn't lovingwhat I was doing.
I was living in Ireland.
I was pretty isolated.
They had pretty strict lockdownrules and I just wasn't feeling
fulfilled in my life and socialissues has always been something
I really cared about.
(03:52):
I'd been kind of contemplatingmoving back to the U.
S.
Um, and I decided to apply tosocial work school because I had
one of my friends who had juststarted and I thought what she
was doing, it sounded reallyinteresting and always been
really addicted and interestedin addictions work.
Um, for some reason, the opioidepidemic when it first began,
um, you know, really 15 yearsago was something that just
(04:16):
really interested me.
And that was something that Iwas interested in pursuing along
with prison social work.
So I was really interested inforensic social work as well.
Um, so I came into UMBinterested in both addictions
and forensic, and was luckyenough to actually work at UMB's
law school for my firstinternship, doing forensic
(04:37):
social work, and getting to workin the prisons, and starting to
work with people with addictionissues.
And that is...
It's where it led me to mysecond year internship at Johns
Hopkins Broadway Center forAddiction, and I just fell in
love.
I love working with thispopulation, um, I think it's a
forgotten population, especiallyin social work.
Um, a lot of folks think that wejust work with kids, but almost
(05:01):
all my clients are, you know, 50plus and have had chronic
homelessness issues, um, chronicaddiction issues, and Just
lending a helping hand issomething that I find really
meaningful.
Dana Rampolla (05:14):
Wow.
Yeah, that really, really isimpactful.
And so, fast forward, um, whenyou were enrolled at the
University of Maryland School ofSocial Work, you worked on
something that resulted in thepassage of the John Siems Act in
the General Assembly, and thatrequires fentanyl testing in
Maryland hospitals.
So, if you don't mind, before wetalk about the law, what would
(05:38):
you like people to know aboutJosh?
Melanie Yates (05:41):
I think the thing to know about Josh is he, and I
think, I think you hear this alot with people who have passed
from addiction and overdose isthat they were the light, but
like, I've never, I've never metanybody that like Josh that can
make you feel so seen and knownand heard.
There were a thousand people athis funeral.
We had to, we were literallyoverflowing into the parking lot
(06:03):
because people couldn't get aseat.
Um, that's how many lives hetouched and he was 31 when he
passed.
But he, I think, made probablyone of the biggest impacts.
It was truly astonishing.
You walk down the street andwhen we were dating, it got a
little annoying.
Cause I'm like, babe, we got togo to like, we got a restaurant.
We got to wait things to do.
And he's like, but I know thatperson.
(06:24):
Let me just say hi.
Like, oh, that's somebody's mom.
Like, let me just run over thestreet and say hi to her.
And he just loved loving people.
And I think that's somethingthat a lot of people, um.
Tend to forget about people withaddiction issues is that they're
human.
They're not just their addictionthere's so much more to them and
(06:44):
he was funny and kind and was arabid Ravens fan and a rabid
Orioles fan and Just reallyloved living Thank you for
sharing that.
You got me teared up.
Charles Schelle (06:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
This, uh, this will be a toughepisode for, for some folks
listening and then for yousharing, so we appreciate
everything, um, ultimately forthe benefit of others,
revisiting this crucial moment,you know, unfortunately when he
passed, take us through whathappened at the hospital.
Is this where things really kindof change when we learn about
test results and this take placein Maryland near, near DC, is
(07:22):
that right?
Melanie Yates (07:23):
Yep, so right on the border.
So he was living in D.
C.
at the time and I was living inBaltimore, so we did a medium
distance relationship.
So we kept swapping weekends.
So we got to the hospital and Hewas there on a ventilator, and
at the time, his family and Ihad just assumed that it was a
fentanyl overdose.
He, um, became addicted toOxycontin in college.
(07:46):
His friend had an injury and hadsome extras, and it was 2009, so
nobody really thought anythingof something you get from the
doctor.
Um, And for whatever reason, hefell in love with it.
And so Oxycontin was easy to getback then.
And obviously, as regulationschanged and laws changed, it
(08:06):
became harder and harder.
And eventually he was buyingfrom a dealer and there were
hits saying, Hey, you know,heroin's a lot cheaper.
Um, and when you're already, um,physically addicted, it's, it's
basically like you have a glassof water across the way and
you're so thirsty, you're goingto die, but you can't drink it.
(08:27):
That's How I think you wouldequate the feeling and he and
then eventually, you know, endedup with fentanyl because
fentanyl has basically overrunthe drug market in the U.
S.
Um, I think it was somethinglike 90 percent now of all
opioids in Maryland arefentanyl, not heroin, even
though everybody will swear it'ssomething else.
(08:49):
Um, so when we saw him in thehospital, we just assume it was
a fentanyl overdose.
His parents had seen him the daybefore, and we had essentially
been planning an intervention tosend him back to rehab for
significantly longer.
Um, than he had been before.
And when we got there, it tookprobably three days to get our
(09:12):
test results.
Give or take, um, we knew thathe wasn't going to live.
His heart wasn't able to keeppumping on its own.
He wasn't able to keep breathingon his own.
We were waiting for thetransplant team to essentially
get together and find all therecipients so that we could try
to donate as many organs aspossible.
And a nurse came in.
(09:34):
And, um, he had just happened topull out the drug screen and we
were like, Oh, well, what, whathappened to come up?
Cause like, we were just curiouswhat came up and they're like,
Oh, only cocaine.
And we were like, cocaine.
And we're like, okay.
Um, and it's very common, youknow, for people who use opioids
to sleep all use cocaine and,um, fentanyl, heroin, whatever,
(09:54):
at the same time to kind ofregulate yourself.
Um, but then we were thinking,did you, did you have a heart
attack?
And then I'm thinking, I wouldrather have you die from an
opioid overdose where you justslowly go to sleep.
I don't want you to have a heartattack and have passed.
And so.
For a couple days after we werejust very confused as to why,
(10:15):
um, also when we went to hisapartment within that time, we
found the fentanyl, um, theycall it blues.
They're like little blue catswith blue powder right on his
thing, um, right on, sorry, andright on his side table.
And I was like, okay, so I seethe fentanyl here.
I see the straw that you wereusing.
(10:38):
Um.
I'm confused how only cocainehas showed up and about a month
later, so we had, after thattime, we had just assumed, okay,
maybe it was just cocaine, maybeit had gone out of the system
too quickly, fentanyl processes,like 24 to 72 hours, we were
just basically explaining it allaway, and, um, the sciences are
(11:00):
close with a doctor that worksat Johns Hopkins, and...
And he said, Oh, it's probablybecause they didn't test for it.
A lot of times they don't comeup and test for fentanyl.
They knew he was already dead,if put it quite frankly, and
they don't need to run the extratest.
Um, and that's how I found outthat fentanyl is not included in
(11:22):
the standard drug screen.
So of course, heroin is notgoing to come up, um, opiates
are not going to, um, appear onthe drug screen because he
didn't have any in his system.
And he had synthetic opioids,which is.
Very minute difference that Ithink even I've heard some
doctors and nurses missing, um,and I think especially the
(11:43):
general population is theassumption that, well, we know
fentanyl has taken over Marylandand the U.
S., wouldn't it just be logicalthat it's already included in
the drug spree?
Um, and that is how I found outthat it wasn't.
And I kind of had the crazyidea, like a month to the day
actually.
Um, and I texted my best friendsaying, is it crazy that I think
(12:05):
I might try to pass a law inMaryland?
And she was like, well, what doyou mean?
And I was like, I'm going to seeif I can try to get fentanyl
testing onto the standard drugscreen.
They did it in California lastyear.
So like, is it crazy to think Icould do this?
And she was like, it's notcrazy.
Charles Schelle (12:24):
Thank you for sharing that.
That's incredible.
Like the, the detail.
And, and just how everythingunfolded where you go down a
rabbit hole essentially withwith regulations and finding out
things.
And as you said, you're tryingto explain stuff away, but then
it comes up, you're like, wait,there's something here.
And so what did you learnfurther about hospital testing?
(12:47):
And I guess what's known as thefederal five, right?
And, and how much you had to digthrough and to be prepared
before you started.
You know, wanting to, to presenta law.
Melanie Yates (12:59):
So I think a rabbit hole is the perfect
description.
Um, that is also how I describedit, or I just went through
basically a research rabbit holeand the research that really
caught my eye that I thought wasto me, the critical piece for
getting this law passed was auniversity of Maryland medical
systems study that had come out,I believe.
(13:22):
2019, or initially, um, thatfound that only 5 percent of
overdose patients are beingtested for fentanyl in the
Maryland health systems.
Um, I ended up reaching out tothose researchers, they then
were saying, Oh, we're alreadyactually doing more research on,
it was a few hospitals, um,along the Chesapeake between
Baltimore and DC, and theyactually came out with their
(13:44):
findings.
in February of this year, andthat actually ended up citing
our law in it that reinforced,hey, it's still not being done,
even though this is now fouryears ago that we published
these studies and we encouragedhospitals to change these
policies.
Um, so I think I did probablyabout a month, um, reading every
single article on the Californiabill, um, talking to the
(14:08):
researchers.
And then I reached out to myfirst supervisor at UMB at the
law school and I said, Hey,Lawyers might know something
about classical law, this mightbe crazy.
And she connected me to one ofthe professors at the law school
who was like, Hey, I think myclinic would want to take this
(14:29):
on.
Um, and I think we can assignone of our student attorneys.
I think this is a really greatpiece of legislation.
And I really honestly couldn'thave done it without her.
Um, and without the help of WillO'Malley, who ended up being my
Like a student attorney, um,student intern, and he and I
(14:49):
started creating this law basedaround the California law, and
we picked apart pieces that wewanted to take out.
So they've got a sunset clauseon theirs, wherein, um, a few
years, the law will no longerapply.
We're like, we're going to seeif we can get away with that not
being in there and justreworking a little bit and
trying to better it as we went.
(15:09):
And so it's probably a good.
Um, and I thought we were goingto do this in 2024 and will was
like, I think we can get it donethis session.
And I said, okay, let's go.
It's my last semester.
I'm about to take my licensingexam.
Like, let's just hit it.
So we did.
(15:30):
That's incredible.
Dana Rampolla (15:31):
Melanie, one of the things that we talked about
when we did an interview whenyou were graduating and we
talked about how May 9th, whichhad just been around, was
Fentanyl Awareness Day.
Back then, you tweeted somethingto the effects of hospitals
seeing an uptick in Fent cases.
Explain what that means to me.
Are there actually more Fentanylcases or is it just because it's
(15:55):
being...
Mixed with drugs, we're seeingan uptick in those numbers.
Can you differentiate betweenthe two?
Melanie Yates (16:02):
So what we're thinking is that it's not
necessarily that people areusing more fentanyl.
It's that it's now just becomingmore apparent how mixed in it is
into other drugs.
Um, specifically cocaine is sococaine deaths are the number
two deaths in Maryland foroverdoses.
What we're finding is thatoverdose deaths that have been
(16:26):
Um, labeled as cocaine deathsbecause they were just tested
with the standard five areactually seeing a more of an
uptick of this might haveactually been a fentanyl related
death that we just didn't evenrecognize.
Fentanyl use itself, intentionalfentanyl use isn't on the rise.
It's just permeated intoliterally everything now.
(16:50):
And so now that we're testingfor, we're just seeing bigger
numbers.
And a lot of people will belike, well, we already know
fentanyl is a problem.
So why do we need the biggernumbers?
Well, we need to know whatexactly it's in.
We need to alert drug users,especially kids who are just
first starting to experiment.
Um, a lot of times they won'teven think twice about fentanyl.
And that's a lot of like, Imean, I've talked to some of the
(17:11):
kids, like they'll just be like,Oh, it's, it's not a problem.
It's like, we're not using that,blah, blah, blah.
And a Xanax pill off of JoeSchmo down the corner.
You don't know what's in that,and you need to be able to
protect yourself.
So it's actually the testingthat's giving us better data,
really.
Yep.
(17:32):
And so that was a big, um, kindof like one of our big sticking
points with the law.
It's not just, you know, wewanted to know, and frankly, we
did want to know what Josh diedfrom.
Um, but it's also that, how arewe going to create programs off
of data that's inaccurate?
What if we're reallyunderestimating the amount
deaths by fentanyl and we'rejust kind of being like, Oh, we
(17:54):
know it's bad.
It's okay.
Charles Schelle (17:56):
You were mentioning studies earlier.
There's that's a University ofMaryland School of Medicine
study that said out of the 83percent who were positive for
the drug, only 5 percent knewthat they had taken it.
So that gives your point abouthow that awareness.
Isn't there, um, for people tothink that they're getting
(18:17):
something clean, right?
Off the streets, shifting backto.
Lobbyist mode really, as nowyou've done your research right
now, you have to navigate thepolitical system and you had
that student mentor and I guessyou'd like to say student
lawyer.
So, um, how did, how did youprepare yourself to map out a
game plan and, um, you know, godown to the General Assembly and
(18:41):
knock on doors and, and, andeven find time for somebody to
listen to you.
Melanie Yates (18:48):
We didn't even have time to go knock on doors,
um, by the time we had a generalidea and we had essentially
skeleton written a law based on,um, California's law and talking
to Dr.
Ronit Lev, who's the doctor whowrote the California law.
Um, we were at the deadline forsubmitting, um, Like new
(19:14):
legislation for the year.
So we couldn't even go toAnnapolis and actually knock on
doors.
So we were calling everybodythat we knew.
Um, so I was reaching out toeverybody and their parents and
seeing like, does anybody know aSenator or a, like a Maryland
state representative, I needsomebody, um, and we ended up
(19:35):
getting in contact with, uh,Joan Vogel.
So he's a new representative.
He's Gen Z, he's young, he'shungry.
He is.
Um, really interested in thesame sort of policies that we
are and because he was afreshman delegate, he was
saying, Hey, I actually havelike room on my roster.
(19:57):
I can, I can put you on and Ithink this is great.
And to us, it's really astraightforward bill.
I mean, we had, uh, you know,other delegates really saying
over and over again, I've hearda hundred times this is a common
sense bill, but this is thefirst time I've actually heard a
common sense bill.
And I felt really proud of thatas well, because I was like,
(20:20):
thank you.
I see it too.
Um, and so we called Joe and Joeand I had a virtual meeting.
He's like, I think we can getthis done.
I'm literally going to have mychief of staff run over there
right now and drop it into theirbasket before 6 PM, which is the
deadline.
And that started the ballrolling.
(20:40):
That's incredible.
Charles Schelle (20:42):
Hopefully that's inspiring for more people
to enact laws that they want tosee change.
And that, you know, if you do alot of hard work, sometimes if
it makes sense, it will find away to get done.
Um, so that's really amazing.
And then, So you had that done,I'm just getting it submitted
and then it actually gets passedin the General Assembly and, um,
(21:07):
the governor signs it into lawin the spring.
It's renamed for Josh.
And now as we're recording this,we're only a couple of days away
from, uh, law taking effect onOctober 1st.
So knowing that this has becomereal here, you know, coming out
October.
And the change it will bring,has it, has it helped you at
(21:30):
all, knowing that this isbecoming a law that's going to
change lives and at the sametime, maybe helping your healing
journey in some way, along,along with, um, his family's
healing journey?
Melanie Yates (21:44):
I definitely think so.
And I think especiallyinitially, this really gave us
some purpose to kind of put ourenergy into it.
I feel like the first sixmonths, you kind of.
Or in like a daze or a not evenquite numbness, but it's
everything's foggy and it'salmost as you're not really in
reality.
And so for, you know, hisparents and I, it was a great
(22:06):
way to channel our energy andfor me, this year has passed
incredibly quickly.
And I actually realized lastweek, I was like, Oh my gosh,
it, it goes into effect likenext week.
I was like, Whoa.
And so for me, that was prettycrazy.
I think this has probably beenThe most meaningful thing I've
(22:27):
done in my life and granted,I'm, you know, only 31, but I
think it was something thatneeded to be done as well.
And I think, you know, I thinkJosh would have been proud.
He loved politics.
So I think he actually wouldhave been a great politician.
I think this is just a nice wayto honor his memory and to Help
(22:50):
other people as well.
Dana Rampolla (22:52):
Yeah, definitely helping other people you read
the numbers and it's it's scaryand and most families You know
when I was growing up this oneif you knew of someone who
overdosed it was a big deal Itwas scary.
It was shocking.
It was kind of had a Taboo thingattached to it, but nowadays
it's you hear it every other dayIt's so common and it's so sad
(23:14):
and so many losses and familiesaffected and you know I go back
to we just keep thanking you forbeing so open and sharing your
story because it It is sad andwe started out Melanie by
talking about you and where youwere in school when this all
happened I mean for ourlisteners this happened in the
last six months.
This isn't like the last fiveyears Melanie's been working on
(23:34):
this.
So tell me in addition to Togetting a law passed, how, how
did you really balance that withgrad school?
Because you, you recentlygraduated and started your own
new career.
Melanie Yates (23:46):
I was really blessed with my professors that
I had.
So it'll be one year in on, onOctober 14th.
So in a little over two weeks.
Um.
And I took about three weeks offof school.
I emailed my professors andsaid, quite frankly, Hey, I
don't think I'm going to come inright now.
(24:08):
My boyfriend died of anoverdose.
And honestly, being in, youknow, UMB School of Social Work
was a blessing because all myprofessors are like, absolutely,
whatever you need.
We can write extensions.
Um, we will figure it out forthis, you know, second to last
semester.
(24:28):
And I took about three weeksoff, um, and I just tried my
best on that last semester.
Um, I did end up getting allA's, which is great, it's
difficult, but I was also doingwell before then, so that was
helpful.
Um, I did consider dropping out,um, and Josh's family was like,
don't do that.
You work so hard.
(24:49):
Um, but what if I instead justbuy a house and remodel it?
I do something else else.
I could do anything.
It was before I really starteddiving into the law and actually
giving myself a task basically.
Um, and that last semester Idrank a lot of Red Bull.
Um, I was tired.
(25:10):
So I had three classes and I hadchosen my classes, um, based on
what I really wanted to take.
Yeah, and classes that I thoughtwould be very helpful for my
career.
So it wasn't plus classes.
So I was like, Oh crap.
So now I'm here and I've gotthese classes and they're going
to be very important.
So I can get a clinic off onthose.
And then I had scheduled mylicensure for spring break as
(25:33):
well.
So that was a craziness, but Ihonestly was either working on
school, the law or Um, studyingfor my licensure from like eight
to eight almost every day.
I think I gave myself like onehalf of an afternoon off, but it
was, I wouldn't do it again.
I would not do all of it again.
(25:55):
I would absolutely pass the lawand all of it, but I think I
needed to manage somethingbetter in the spring because I
was running on fumes, but I,once the ball got rolling, you
can't stop and we didn't want tostop.
And once I kind of saw that, Iwas like, this might actually.
get somewhere and do something.
I was like, well, we can't stopnow.
(26:16):
We have to keep going.
That's awesome.
Well, it says a lot about you asa person to have been able to,
that you continued, like, youdidn't start out with the idea
to do it, but you pushedyourself through it, you
graduated, you did, made somereally important changes, that
really says a lot about you.
I hope you're finding a littletime to breathe and relax now.
And, you know, Keith.
(26:38):
Yeah, I've got evenings off now,which is amazing.
No more homework.
Charles Schelle (26:44):
We know that the law passed in Maryland and
you mentioned the Californiaone.
Well, do you know, I guess whatthis looks like for other states
and how common this is fortesting?
Melanie Yates (26:54):
So pretty much categorically, no other states
test for it.
Um, it would have to besomething that's implemented by
the American Medical Associationand they're not necessarily keen
to have things legislated, whichI absolutely understand.
And at the same time, changeneeds to happen.
Um, I know there is a lawgetting, at least moving through
(27:17):
the process in Pennsylvaniaright now, and I had some folks
in Virginia reach out to meabout the law because they
wanted to pass somethingsimilar, so there's definitely
rumblings.
In the state of trying to getthings done state by state.
There is also still a federalpush.
Um, so the mom in California whohelped pass that law has been
(27:37):
really working on trying to getit federally pushed.
Unfortunately, the federalgovernment can't mandate laws
for the states based on the 10thamendment.
So we're trying to work some wayaround to just.
update the regulations.
Um, so it's a little bit morecomplicated to just do a
sweeping oversight, but we'rehoping at least that the
(28:00):
knowledge that, hey, this isn'tbeing done and this really
should be done.
And how do we, you know, changethe federal five more
frequently?
It's not changed since I thinkthe 1960s.
So when is it time to maybephase out some drugs and phase
in other drugs?
When is it?
(28:20):
you know, fiscally beneficialwhen are we seeing enough
numbers for things like that?
So that's potentially a doctoralproject for myself, but when can
we update and when should weupdate?
Cause I think this really shouldhave been done 10 years ago when
we started seeing such a slight.
Charles Schelle (28:37):
You're now a licensed clinical social worker
in the Baltimore area.
What does your work focus onnow?
Melanie Yates (28:43):
So I am a dual diagnosis therapist in West
Baltimore, so I have.
Um, or I work at an outpatientclinic, and I deal with folks
who have been diagnosed withsome sort of substance use
disorder and a co occurringmental health diagnosis, so that
can be anything.
I've talked to bipolar,depression, anxiety, PTSD, um,
(29:04):
so I work with folks who havebeen experiencing chronic
homelessness, we give them aplace to stay, and then they
also enter treatment with us.
So we can hopefully, you know,get them all drugs and...
back working and however theykind of want to live their life.
Dana Rampolla (29:21):
That's incredible.
Um, before we, we sign off,Melanie, October is National
Substance Abuse PreventionMonth, and a few, few months ago
you tweeted, Use test strips,have Narcan, and never use
alone, which seems pretty selfexplanatory.
Do you think people arelistening?
Do you think that messageresonates?
Melanie Yates (29:42):
I wish.
Um, I think test strips arebecoming more common for people
who are using cocaine, um,active drug users and people
who, with a diagnosablesubstance use disorder, don't
really care.
Um, they don't really haveenough time.
They're, for whatever reason,not really going to use it.
(30:04):
Um, I think test strips aregreat for capital drug users.
Um, people, and I would sayespecially folks who are using
cocaine who are not intending totry to use any sort of opioid.
I've definitely been seeing anincrease in folks using test
strips there.
Narcan, I think more people arehaving it.
I think it's still so expensive.
Um, you know, you can get itfrom Baltimore City for free,
(30:26):
but that's not true across thestate from Maryland.
And I think if we made itaccessible and made it very cost
effective, people are going tohave it more often.
All of my clients have beenwritten a Narcan prescription by
their doctor, however, it'sstill going to cost certain
amounts of them to get it, andis that worth it, based on, you
know, a very tight income?
(30:47):
Um, I think the using alone issomething...
That I think a lot of peopleunderestimate, um, I think
because drug use, especially forpeople who suffer with, you
know, an addiction issue,they're going to use a loan.
It's a shame filled activity.
They're not going to be like,Hey, mom, girlfriend, whoever,
(31:10):
I'm going to go use in thebathroom, so be careful.
But there are hotlines that youcan call and it'll be a person
that'll sit on the phone withyou while you use and you have
to respond in a certain amountof time.
Otherwise, they'll call 911 and.
You know, send somebody out fora suspected overdose.
And so there are other avenuesthat you can use and reach out
(31:32):
to try to make drug using saferbecause I don't think it's
realistic to say, don't dodrugs.
It's just not going to happen.
It's not going to happen in anycity.
It's not going to happen in anysocioeconomic class.
It's just not going to happen.
So it's how are we going to usein a safer way?
And how are we going torecognize when there is an
addiction issue and these arethe treatment steps that, or the
(31:54):
treatment options that you cantake and something that'll get
it before you're 10, 20, 30years deep and it's a lot harder
to get rid of.
Charles Schelle (32:06):
Melanie, thank you for sharing your story and
being so open about not only thepersonal loss, but shedding
light on, on this serious andlife changing topic and how
other people can ultimately behelped in light of a tragedy.
So you, I think truly havebrought UMD's mission to life to
improve the human condition andserve the public good of
(32:28):
Maryland.
So thank you for everything youdo and best of luck in your
future.
Um, cause undoubtedly you'regoing to do something terrific
again.
Melanie Yates (32:37):
Thank you both for having me.
I appreciate it.
Thanks, Melanie.
Jena Frick (32:46):
The UMB Pulse with Charles Shalee and Dana Rampolla
is a UMB Office ofCommunications and Public
Affairs production, edited byCharles Shalee, marketing by
Dana Rampolla.
October is National Substance Abuse
Prevention Month.
So here on the UMB Pulse, we'dlike to take this opportunity to
speak with a recent graduate ofthe University of Maryland
School of Social Work, MelanieYates.
Melanie graduated this pastspring and she received her
Master of Social Work in May.
And she's already been making atremendous impact here in
(00:24):
Maryland.
And actually she started beforeshe even graduated.
Um, she submitted a bill that'snow known as the Josh Siems Act,
which was named for her lateboyfriend who passed away from a
fentanyl overdose.
Um, the act requires Marylandhospitals to test for fentanyl
now, which is something thatnormally has not been done in
the past.
(00:45):
And it was signed into law byGovernor Wes Moore in the
spring.
The law became effective onOctober 1st.
For her extraordinary work,Melanie was awarded the Clinical
Fieldwork Award from the Schoolof Social Work, Office of Field
Education, an exemplary clinicalaward, which is chosen by her
peers.
So, a word of caution to ourlisteners.
This episode tacklesconversations about addiction,
(01:07):
about overdose, and about familyloss.
It hits close to home for me astwo years ago, I lost my
youngest brother due to afentanyl overdose.
And this legislation was not inplace then.
So I think it's an encouragingconversation.
I hope that you can listenthrough its entirety to hear not
only the great work that Melaniehas done, but how laws are
(01:29):
changing to help our own familymembers who might have
addictions and who might gothrough something like this in,
in their
Jena Frick (01:36):
lives.
You're listening to theheartbeat of the University of
Maryland, Baltimore, the UMBPulse.
Charles Schelle (01:56):
Melanie, uh, thank you for joining us and
being here on the UMB Pulse toshare your journey and your
story.
We hope this can help not onlyinspire others.
But ultimately save livesthrough the work that you're
doing.
Melanie Yates (02:09):
Thank you so much for having me.
Dana Rampolla (02:11):
In our opening, we referenced your work and how
you've helped make somesignificant changes in the area
of drug use in Maryland and drugtesting in Maryland.
And here on the UMB Pulse, welike to talk about our change
makers, people who are from theuniversity who are making a
difference in the real world.
And as a recent graduate of theuniversity, you have a great
story to tell.
(02:31):
So before we get into discussingyour meaningful work, let's
start with who you are.
You were a student at AmericanUniversity.
You received a bachelor's degreein environmental science.
So what were your originalaspirations and how were you led
to wanting to even work inbehavioral health?
Melanie Yates (02:48):
So when I originally was in school, I
really wanted to be a marinebiologist, um, and I really
wanted to study sharks and I,that's why I pursued an
undergrad in environmentalscience, um, did a bunch of
internships, didn't findanything I really loved.
So for the remainder of mytwenties, really, um, I tried
every job known to man.
(03:09):
My brother said I should be acareer coach because I tried
everything.
Um, I, you know, moved toNashville, I moved abroad for
four years.
I worked everywhere, I worked inbars, I worked as a barista, um,
I worked in merchandising for awhile.
Tried.
Um, and then when the pandemichit, I think I just like
(03:31):
everybody else was trying toreassess your life.
Um, and I was trying to figureout what brought me meaning
because I just wasn't lovingwhat I was doing.
I was living in Ireland.
I was pretty isolated.
They had pretty strict lockdownrules and I just wasn't feeling
fulfilled in my life and socialissues has always been something
I really cared about.
(03:52):
I'd been kind of contemplatingmoving back to the U.
S.
Um, and I decided to apply tosocial work school because I had
one of my friends who had juststarted and I thought what she
was doing, it sounded reallyinteresting and always been
really addicted and interestedin addictions work.
Um, for some reason, the opioidepidemic when it first began,
um, you know, really 15 yearsago was something that just
(04:16):
really interested me.
And that was something that Iwas interested in pursuing along
with prison social work.
So I was really interested inforensic social work as well.
Um, so I came into UMBinterested in both addictions
and forensic, and was luckyenough to actually work at UMB's
law school for my firstinternship, doing forensic
(04:37):
social work, and getting to workin the prisons, and starting to
work with people with addictionissues.
And that is...
It's where it led me to mysecond year internship at Johns
Hopkins Broadway Center forAddiction, and I just fell in
love.
I love working with thispopulation, um, I think it's a
forgotten population, especiallyin social work.
Um, a lot of folks think that wejust work with kids, but almost
(05:01):
all my clients are, you know, 50plus and have had chronic
homelessness issues, um, chronicaddiction issues, and Just
lending a helping hand issomething that I find really
meaningful.
Dana Rampolla (05:14):
Wow.
Yeah, that really, really isimpactful.
And so, fast forward, um, whenyou were enrolled at the
University of Maryland School ofSocial Work, you worked on
something that resulted in thepassage of the John Siems Act in
the General Assembly, and thatrequires fentanyl testing in
Maryland hospitals.
So, if you don't mind, before wetalk about the law, what would
(05:38):
you like people to know aboutJosh?
Melanie Yates (05:41):
I think the thing to know about Josh is he, and I
think, I think you hear this alot with people who have passed
from addiction and overdose isthat they were the light, but
like, I've never, I've never metanybody that like Josh that can
make you feel so seen and knownand heard.
There were a thousand people athis funeral.
We had to, we were literallyoverflowing into the parking lot
(06:03):
because people couldn't get aseat.
Um, that's how many lives hetouched and he was 31 when he
passed.
But he, I think, made probablyone of the biggest impacts.
It was truly astonishing.
You walk down the street andwhen we were dating, it got a
little annoying.
Cause I'm like, babe, we got togo to like, we got a restaurant.
We got to wait things to do.
And he's like, but I know thatperson.
(06:24):
Let me just say hi.
Like, oh, that's somebody's mom.
Like, let me just run over thestreet and say hi to her.
And he just loved loving people.
And I think that's somethingthat a lot of people, um.
Tend to forget about people withaddiction issues is that they're
human.
They're not just their addictionthere's so much more to them and
(06:44):
he was funny and kind and was arabid Ravens fan and a rabid
Orioles fan and Just reallyloved living Thank you for
sharing that.
You got me teared up.
Charles Schelle (06:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
This, uh, this will be a toughepisode for, for some folks
listening and then for yousharing, so we appreciate
everything, um, ultimately forthe benefit of others,
revisiting this crucial moment,you know, unfortunately when he
passed, take us through whathappened at the hospital.
Is this where things really kindof change when we learn about
test results and this take placein Maryland near, near DC, is
(07:22):
that right?
Melanie Yates (07:23):
Yep, so right on the border.
So he was living in D.
C.
at the time and I was living inBaltimore, so we did a medium
distance relationship.
So we kept swapping weekends.
So we got to the hospital and Hewas there on a ventilator, and
at the time, his family and Ihad just assumed that it was a
fentanyl overdose.
He, um, became addicted toOxycontin in college.
(07:46):
His friend had an injury and hadsome extras, and it was 2009, so
nobody really thought anythingof something you get from the
doctor.
Um, And for whatever reason, hefell in love with it.
And so Oxycontin was easy to getback then.
And obviously, as regulationschanged and laws changed, it
(08:06):
became harder and harder.
And eventually he was buyingfrom a dealer and there were
hits saying, Hey, you know,heroin's a lot cheaper.
Um, and when you're already, um,physically addicted, it's, it's
basically like you have a glassof water across the way and
you're so thirsty, you're goingto die, but you can't drink it.
(08:27):
That's How I think you wouldequate the feeling and he and
then eventually, you know, endedup with fentanyl because
fentanyl has basically overrunthe drug market in the U.
S.
Um, I think it was somethinglike 90 percent now of all
opioids in Maryland arefentanyl, not heroin, even
though everybody will swear it'ssomething else.
(08:49):
Um, so when we saw him in thehospital, we just assume it was
a fentanyl overdose.
His parents had seen him the daybefore, and we had essentially
been planning an intervention tosend him back to rehab for
significantly longer.
Um, than he had been before.
And when we got there, it tookprobably three days to get our
(09:12):
test results.
Give or take, um, we knew thathe wasn't going to live.
His heart wasn't able to keeppumping on its own.
He wasn't able to keep breathingon his own.
We were waiting for thetransplant team to essentially
get together and find all therecipients so that we could try
to donate as many organs aspossible.
And a nurse came in.
(09:34):
And, um, he had just happened topull out the drug screen and we
were like, Oh, well, what, whathappened to come up?
Cause like, we were just curiouswhat came up and they're like,
Oh, only cocaine.
And we were like, cocaine.
And we're like, okay.
Um, and it's very common, youknow, for people who use opioids
to sleep all use cocaine and,um, fentanyl, heroin, whatever,
(09:54):
at the same time to kind ofregulate yourself.
Um, but then we were thinking,did you, did you have a heart
attack?
And then I'm thinking, I wouldrather have you die from an
opioid overdose where you justslowly go to sleep.
I don't want you to have a heartattack and have passed.
And so.
For a couple days after we werejust very confused as to why,
(10:15):
um, also when we went to hisapartment within that time, we
found the fentanyl, um, theycall it blues.
They're like little blue catswith blue powder right on his
thing, um, right on, sorry, andright on his side table.
And I was like, okay, so I seethe fentanyl here.
I see the straw that you wereusing.
(10:38):
Um.
I'm confused how only cocainehas showed up and about a month
later, so we had, after thattime, we had just assumed, okay,
maybe it was just cocaine, maybeit had gone out of the system
too quickly, fentanyl processes,like 24 to 72 hours, we were
just basically explaining it allaway, and, um, the sciences are
(11:00):
close with a doctor that worksat Johns Hopkins, and...
And he said, Oh, it's probablybecause they didn't test for it.
A lot of times they don't comeup and test for fentanyl.
They knew he was already dead,if put it quite frankly, and
they don't need to run the extratest.
Um, and that's how I found outthat fentanyl is not included in
(11:22):
the standard drug screen.
So of course, heroin is notgoing to come up, um, opiates
are not going to, um, appear onthe drug screen because he
didn't have any in his system.
And he had synthetic opioids,which is.
Very minute difference that Ithink even I've heard some
doctors and nurses missing, um,and I think especially the
(11:43):
general population is theassumption that, well, we know
fentanyl has taken over Marylandand the U.
S., wouldn't it just be logicalthat it's already included in
the drug spree?
Um, and that is how I found outthat it wasn't.
And I kind of had the crazyidea, like a month to the day
actually.
Um, and I texted my best friendsaying, is it crazy that I think
(12:05):
I might try to pass a law inMaryland?
And she was like, well, what doyou mean?
And I was like, I'm going to seeif I can try to get fentanyl
testing onto the standard drugscreen.
They did it in California lastyear.
So like, is it crazy to think Icould do this?
And she was like, it's notcrazy.
Charles Schelle (12:24):
Thank you for sharing that.
That's incredible.
Like the, the detail.
And, and just how everythingunfolded where you go down a
rabbit hole essentially withwith regulations and finding out
things.
And as you said, you're tryingto explain stuff away, but then
it comes up, you're like, wait,there's something here.
And so what did you learnfurther about hospital testing?
(12:47):
And I guess what's known as thefederal five, right?
And, and how much you had to digthrough and to be prepared
before you started.
You know, wanting to, to presenta law.
Melanie Yates (12:59):
So I think a rabbit hole is the perfect
description.
Um, that is also how I describedit, or I just went through
basically a research rabbit holeand the research that really
caught my eye that I thought wasto me, the critical piece for
getting this law passed was auniversity of Maryland medical
systems study that had come out,I believe.
(13:22):
2019, or initially, um, thatfound that only 5 percent of
overdose patients are beingtested for fentanyl in the
Maryland health systems.
Um, I ended up reaching out tothose researchers, they then
were saying, Oh, we're alreadyactually doing more research on,
it was a few hospitals, um,along the Chesapeake between
Baltimore and DC, and theyactually came out with their
(13:44):
findings.
in February of this year, andthat actually ended up citing
our law in it that reinforced,hey, it's still not being done,
even though this is now fouryears ago that we published
these studies and we encouragedhospitals to change these
policies.
Um, so I think I did probablyabout a month, um, reading every
single article on the Californiabill, um, talking to the
(14:08):
researchers.
And then I reached out to myfirst supervisor at UMB at the
law school and I said, Hey,Lawyers might know something
about classical law, this mightbe crazy.
And she connected me to one ofthe professors at the law school
who was like, Hey, I think myclinic would want to take this
(14:29):
on.
Um, and I think we can assignone of our student attorneys.
I think this is a really greatpiece of legislation.
And I really honestly couldn'thave done it without her.
Um, and without the help of WillO'Malley, who ended up being my
Like a student attorney, um,student intern, and he and I
(14:49):
started creating this law basedaround the California law, and
we picked apart pieces that wewanted to take out.
So they've got a sunset clauseon theirs, wherein, um, a few
years, the law will no longerapply.
We're like, we're going to seeif we can get away with that not
being in there and justreworking a little bit and
trying to better it as we went.
(15:09):
And so it's probably a good.
Um, and I thought we were goingto do this in 2024 and will was
like, I think we can get it donethis session.
And I said, okay, let's go.
It's my last semester.
I'm about to take my licensingexam.
Like, let's just hit it.
So we did.
(15:30):
That's incredible.
Dana Rampolla (15:31):
Melanie, one of the things that we talked about
when we did an interview whenyou were graduating and we
talked about how May 9th, whichhad just been around, was
Fentanyl Awareness Day.
Back then, you tweeted somethingto the effects of hospitals
seeing an uptick in Fent cases.
Explain what that means to me.
Are there actually more Fentanylcases or is it just because it's
(15:55):
being...
Mixed with drugs, we're seeingan uptick in those numbers.
Can you differentiate betweenthe two?
Melanie Yates (16:02):
So what we're thinking is that it's not
necessarily that people areusing more fentanyl.
It's that it's now just becomingmore apparent how mixed in it is
into other drugs.
Um, specifically cocaine is sococaine deaths are the number
two deaths in Maryland foroverdoses.
What we're finding is thatoverdose deaths that have been
(16:26):
Um, labeled as cocaine deathsbecause they were just tested
with the standard five areactually seeing a more of an
uptick of this might haveactually been a fentanyl related
death that we just didn't evenrecognize.
Fentanyl use itself, intentionalfentanyl use isn't on the rise.
It's just permeated intoliterally everything now.
(16:50):
And so now that we're testingfor, we're just seeing bigger
numbers.
And a lot of people will belike, well, we already know
fentanyl is a problem.
So why do we need the biggernumbers?
Well, we need to know whatexactly it's in.
We need to alert drug users,especially kids who are just
first starting to experiment.
Um, a lot of times they won'teven think twice about fentanyl.
And that's a lot of like, Imean, I've talked to some of the
(17:11):
kids, like they'll just be like,Oh, it's, it's not a problem.
It's like, we're not using that,blah, blah, blah.
And a Xanax pill off of JoeSchmo down the corner.
You don't know what's in that,and you need to be able to
protect yourself.
So it's actually the testingthat's giving us better data,
really.
Yep.
(17:32):
And so that was a big, um, kindof like one of our big sticking
points with the law.
It's not just, you know, wewanted to know, and frankly, we
did want to know what Josh diedfrom.
Um, but it's also that, how arewe going to create programs off
of data that's inaccurate?
What if we're reallyunderestimating the amount
deaths by fentanyl and we'rejust kind of being like, Oh, we
(17:54):
know it's bad.
It's okay.
Charles Schelle (17:56):
You were mentioning studies earlier.
There's that's a University ofMaryland School of Medicine
study that said out of the 83percent who were positive for
the drug, only 5 percent knewthat they had taken it.
So that gives your point abouthow that awareness.
Isn't there, um, for people tothink that they're getting
(18:17):
something clean, right?
Off the streets, shifting backto.
Lobbyist mode really, as nowyou've done your research right
now, you have to navigate thepolitical system and you had
that student mentor and I guessyou'd like to say student
lawyer.
So, um, how did, how did youprepare yourself to map out a
game plan and, um, you know, godown to the General Assembly and
(18:41):
knock on doors and, and, andeven find time for somebody to
listen to you.
Melanie Yates (18:48):
We didn't even have time to go knock on doors,
um, by the time we had a generalidea and we had essentially
skeleton written a law based on,um, California's law and talking
to Dr.
Ronit Lev, who's the doctor whowrote the California law.
Um, we were at the deadline forsubmitting, um, Like new
(19:14):
legislation for the year.
So we couldn't even go toAnnapolis and actually knock on
doors.
So we were calling everybodythat we knew.
Um, so I was reaching out toeverybody and their parents and
seeing like, does anybody know aSenator or a, like a Maryland
state representative, I needsomebody, um, and we ended up
(19:35):
getting in contact with, uh,Joan Vogel.
So he's a new representative.
He's Gen Z, he's young, he'shungry.
He is.
Um, really interested in thesame sort of policies that we
are and because he was afreshman delegate, he was
saying, Hey, I actually havelike room on my roster.
(19:57):
I can, I can put you on and Ithink this is great.
And to us, it's really astraightforward bill.
I mean, we had, uh, you know,other delegates really saying
over and over again, I've hearda hundred times this is a common
sense bill, but this is thefirst time I've actually heard a
common sense bill.
And I felt really proud of thatas well, because I was like,
(20:20):
thank you.
I see it too.
Um, and so we called Joe and Joeand I had a virtual meeting.
He's like, I think we can getthis done.
I'm literally going to have mychief of staff run over there
right now and drop it into theirbasket before 6 PM, which is the
deadline.
And that started the ballrolling.
(20:40):
That's incredible.
Charles Schelle (20:42):
Hopefully that's inspiring for more people
to enact laws that they want tosee change.
And that, you know, if you do alot of hard work, sometimes if
it makes sense, it will find away to get done.
Um, so that's really amazing.
And then, So you had that done,I'm just getting it submitted
and then it actually gets passedin the General Assembly and, um,
(21:07):
the governor signs it into lawin the spring.
It's renamed for Josh.
And now as we're recording this,we're only a couple of days away
from, uh, law taking effect onOctober 1st.
So knowing that this has becomereal here, you know, coming out
October.
And the change it will bring,has it, has it helped you at
(21:30):
all, knowing that this isbecoming a law that's going to
change lives and at the sametime, maybe helping your healing
journey in some way, along,along with, um, his family's
healing journey?
Melanie Yates (21:44):
I definitely think so.
And I think especiallyinitially, this really gave us
some purpose to kind of put ourenergy into it.
I feel like the first sixmonths, you kind of.
Or in like a daze or a not evenquite numbness, but it's
everything's foggy and it'salmost as you're not really in
reality.
And so for, you know, hisparents and I, it was a great
(22:06):
way to channel our energy andfor me, this year has passed
incredibly quickly.
And I actually realized lastweek, I was like, Oh my gosh,
it, it goes into effect likenext week.
I was like, Whoa.
And so for me, that was prettycrazy.
I think this has probably beenThe most meaningful thing I've
(22:27):
done in my life and granted,I'm, you know, only 31, but I
think it was something thatneeded to be done as well.
And I think, you know, I thinkJosh would have been proud.
He loved politics.
So I think he actually wouldhave been a great politician.
I think this is just a nice wayto honor his memory and to Help
(22:50):
other people as well.
Dana Rampolla (22:52):
Yeah, definitely helping other people you read
the numbers and it's it's scaryand and most families You know
when I was growing up this oneif you knew of someone who
overdosed it was a big deal Itwas scary.
It was shocking.
It was kind of had a Taboo thingattached to it, but nowadays
it's you hear it every other dayIt's so common and it's so sad
(23:14):
and so many losses and familiesaffected and you know I go back
to we just keep thanking you forbeing so open and sharing your
story because it It is sad andwe started out Melanie by
talking about you and where youwere in school when this all
happened I mean for ourlisteners this happened in the
last six months.
This isn't like the last fiveyears Melanie's been working on
(23:34):
this.
So tell me in addition to Togetting a law passed, how, how
did you really balance that withgrad school?
Because you, you recentlygraduated and started your own
new career.
Melanie Yates (23:46):
I was really blessed with my professors that
I had.
So it'll be one year in on, onOctober 14th.
So in a little over two weeks.
Um.
And I took about three weeks offof school.
I emailed my professors andsaid, quite frankly, Hey, I
don't think I'm going to come inright now.
(24:08):
My boyfriend died of anoverdose.
And honestly, being in, youknow, UMB School of Social Work
was a blessing because all myprofessors are like, absolutely,
whatever you need.
We can write extensions.
Um, we will figure it out forthis, you know, second to last
semester.
(24:28):
And I took about three weeksoff, um, and I just tried my
best on that last semester.
Um, I did end up getting allA's, which is great, it's
difficult, but I was also doingwell before then, so that was
helpful.
Um, I did consider dropping out,um, and Josh's family was like,
don't do that.
You work so hard.
(24:49):
Um, but what if I instead justbuy a house and remodel it?
I do something else else.
I could do anything.
It was before I really starteddiving into the law and actually
giving myself a task basically.
Um, and that last semester Idrank a lot of Red Bull.
Um, I was tired.
(25:10):
So I had three classes and I hadchosen my classes, um, based on
what I really wanted to take.
Yeah, and classes that I thoughtwould be very helpful for my
career.
So it wasn't plus classes.
So I was like, Oh crap.
So now I'm here and I've gotthese classes and they're going
to be very important.
So I can get a clinic off onthose.
And then I had scheduled mylicensure for spring break as
(25:33):
well.
So that was a craziness, but Ihonestly was either working on
school, the law or Um, studyingfor my licensure from like eight
to eight almost every day.
I think I gave myself like onehalf of an afternoon off, but it
was, I wouldn't do it again.
I would not do all of it again.
(25:55):
I would absolutely pass the lawand all of it, but I think I
needed to manage somethingbetter in the spring because I
was running on fumes, but I,once the ball got rolling, you
can't stop and we didn't want tostop.
And once I kind of saw that, Iwas like, this might actually.
get somewhere and do something.
I was like, well, we can't stopnow.
(26:16):
We have to keep going.
That's awesome.
Well, it says a lot about you asa person to have been able to,
that you continued, like, youdidn't start out with the idea
to do it, but you pushedyourself through it, you
graduated, you did, made somereally important changes, that
really says a lot about you.
I hope you're finding a littletime to breathe and relax now.
And, you know, Keith.
(26:38):
Yeah, I've got evenings off now,which is amazing.
No more homework.
Charles Schelle (26:44):
We know that the law passed in Maryland and
you mentioned the Californiaone.
Well, do you know, I guess whatthis looks like for other states
and how common this is fortesting?
Melanie Yates (26:54):
So pretty much categorically, no other states
test for it.
Um, it would have to besomething that's implemented by
the American Medical Associationand they're not necessarily keen
to have things legislated, whichI absolutely understand.
And at the same time, changeneeds to happen.
Um, I know there is a lawgetting, at least moving through
(27:17):
the process in Pennsylvaniaright now, and I had some folks
in Virginia reach out to meabout the law because they
wanted to pass somethingsimilar, so there's definitely
rumblings.
In the state of trying to getthings done state by state.
There is also still a federalpush.
Um, so the mom in California whohelped pass that law has been
(27:37):
really working on trying to getit federally pushed.
Unfortunately, the federalgovernment can't mandate laws
for the states based on the 10thamendment.
So we're trying to work some wayaround to just.
update the regulations.
Um, so it's a little bit morecomplicated to just do a
sweeping oversight, but we'rehoping at least that the
(28:00):
knowledge that, hey, this isn'tbeing done and this really
should be done.
And how do we, you know, changethe federal five more
frequently?
It's not changed since I thinkthe 1960s.
So when is it time to maybephase out some drugs and phase
in other drugs?
When is it?
(28:20):
you know, fiscally beneficialwhen are we seeing enough
numbers for things like that?
So that's potentially a doctoralproject for myself, but when can
we update and when should weupdate?
Cause I think this really shouldhave been done 10 years ago when
we started seeing such a slight.
Charles Schelle (28:37):
You're now a licensed clinical social worker
in the Baltimore area.
What does your work focus onnow?
Melanie Yates (28:43):
So I am a dual diagnosis therapist in West
Baltimore, so I have.
Um, or I work at an outpatientclinic, and I deal with folks
who have been diagnosed withsome sort of substance use
disorder and a co occurringmental health diagnosis, so that
can be anything.
I've talked to bipolar,depression, anxiety, PTSD, um,
(29:04):
so I work with folks who havebeen experiencing chronic
homelessness, we give them aplace to stay, and then they
also enter treatment with us.
So we can hopefully, you know,get them all drugs and...
back working and however theykind of want to live their life.
Dana Rampolla (29:21):
That's incredible.
Um, before we, we sign off,Melanie, October is National
Substance Abuse PreventionMonth, and a few, few months ago
you tweeted, Use test strips,have Narcan, and never use
alone, which seems pretty selfexplanatory.
Do you think people arelistening?
Do you think that messageresonates?
Melanie Yates (29:42):
I wish.
Um, I think test strips arebecoming more common for people
who are using cocaine, um,active drug users and people
who, with a diagnosablesubstance use disorder, don't
really care.
Um, they don't really haveenough time.
They're, for whatever reason,not really going to use it.
(30:04):
Um, I think test strips aregreat for capital drug users.
Um, people, and I would sayespecially folks who are using
cocaine who are not intending totry to use any sort of opioid.
I've definitely been seeing anincrease in folks using test
strips there.
Narcan, I think more people arehaving it.
I think it's still so expensive.
Um, you know, you can get itfrom Baltimore City for free,
(30:26):
but that's not true across thestate from Maryland.
And I think if we made itaccessible and made it very cost
effective, people are going tohave it more often.
All of my clients have beenwritten a Narcan prescription by
their doctor, however, it'sstill going to cost certain
amounts of them to get it, andis that worth it, based on, you
know, a very tight income?
(30:47):
Um, I think the using alone issomething...
That I think a lot of peopleunderestimate, um, I think
because drug use, especially forpeople who suffer with, you
know, an addiction issue,they're going to use a loan.
It's a shame filled activity.
They're not going to be like,Hey, mom, girlfriend, whoever,
(31:10):
I'm going to go use in thebathroom, so be careful.
But there are hotlines that youcan call and it'll be a person
that'll sit on the phone withyou while you use and you have
to respond in a certain amountof time.
Otherwise, they'll call 911 and.
You know, send somebody out fora suspected overdose.
And so there are other avenuesthat you can use and reach out
(31:32):
to try to make drug using saferbecause I don't think it's
realistic to say, don't dodrugs.
It's just not going to happen.
It's not going to happen in anycity.
It's not going to happen in anysocioeconomic class.
It's just not going to happen.
So it's how are we going to usein a safer way?
And how are we going torecognize when there is an
addiction issue and these arethe treatment steps that, or the
(31:54):
treatment options that you cantake and something that'll get
it before you're 10, 20, 30years deep and it's a lot harder
to get rid of.
Charles Schelle (32:06):
Melanie, thank you for sharing your story and
being so open about not only thepersonal loss, but shedding
light on, on this serious andlife changing topic and how
other people can ultimately behelped in light of a tragedy.
So you, I think truly havebrought UMD's mission to life to
improve the human condition andserve the public good of
(32:28):
Maryland.
So thank you for everything youdo and best of luck in your
future.
Um, cause undoubtedly you'regoing to do something terrific
again.
Melanie Yates (32:37):
Thank you both for having me.
I appreciate it.
Thanks, Melanie.
Jena Frick (32:46):
The UMB Pulse with Charles Shalee and Dana Rampolla
is a UMB Office ofCommunications and Public
Affairs production, edited byCharles Shalee, marketing by
Dana Rampolla.
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