November 11, 2024 • 43 mins
In this episode of the UMB Pulse podcast, co-hosts Charles Schelle and Dana Rampolla interview Ret. Maj. Gen. Margaret "Peggy" Chamberlain Wilmoth, PhD, MSS, MS’ 79, BSN ‘75, FAAN, a distinguished alumna of the University of Maryland School of Nursing. She is currently a professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Nursing.
Known as Peggy, she shares her inspiring journey as the first U.S. Army nurse to command a medical brigade and her dual career in nursing and military service. Peggy discusses her experiences, challenges, and accomplishments, including policy development and research contributions. She emphasizes the significance of mentorship, the importance of inclusiveness in the military, and her passion for psychosocial oncology.
00:00 Introduction
00:05 Discussing Veterans Day and "The Women"
01:28 Introducing General Margaret Chamberlain Wilmoth
03:55 General Wilmoth's Early Life and Career
09:34 Balancing Military and Academic Careers
12:12 Leadership and Policy Contributions
20:08 Challenges and Research in Military Health
26:51 Inclusivity and Psychosocial Oncology
35:29 Advice for Future Generations
41:56 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dana Rampolla (00:00):
Hi, Charles.
(00:00):
How are you today?
Charles Schelle (00:02):
Great, Dana.
How are you doing?
Dana Rampolla (00:04):
I'm good.
I'm good.
So it is November.
This is the month that wecelebrate Veterans Day.
And I wanted to ask you, haveyou ever read the new book?
It came out earlier this year.
It's a historical fiction bookwritten by Kristin Hannah.
It's called"The Women."
Charles Schelle (00:18):
Can't say that I have.
Dana Rampolla (00:20):
No?
It's a great book.
I recommend reading it.
I.
I actually learned a lot.
That's what I like abouthistorical fiction is it's a
good story, but you can learn alot with it.
And so this particular booktalks about women who were
nurses during Vietnam.
And it tells the specific storyof 1 woman and the challenges
she faced, not only with beingin Vietnam period, because she
(00:43):
was on the front line, and itwas very traumatic, but also how
she was in a male dominatedenvironment working as a nurse,
assuming tremendous amounts ofresponsibility that women nurses
at that time may not haveexperienced in other settings.
I think that we know what menwho served in Vietnam
experienced, but it was veryinsightful to look at what women
(01:06):
experienced because a lot ofpeople didn't recognize that
they were even in Vietnam andhere she was literally on the
front lines.
Charles Schelle (01:13):
Interesting.
Well, it sounds like, quite across section of nursing and
military service.
I'm a fan of reading biographiesand autobiographies.
So if only there was someone'slife that I could read and hear
about that fit that description.
Dana Rampolla (01:28):
Well, I'm sure there is, and at the very least,
today we're going to talk tosomeone who lived that
experience firsthand.
She graduated from theUniversity of Maryland,
Baltimore.
She went to our School ofNursing, and her name is General
Margaret Chamberlain Wilmoth.
She goes by Peggy, and she'ssuch a nice lady and so
approachable and has so manygreat lessons to share from her
(01:50):
experience.
Charles Schelle (01:52):
General Wilmoth, Peggy, as you said she
is the first U S army nurse tocommand a medical brigade as a
general officer.
She'll tell us what that meansand what that looked like.
She served as an Army ReserveDeputy Surgeon General, while
she's balancing a life of alittle bit of everything, being
a single mother and still havinga career, served as the Deputy
(02:14):
Chair of the Army Reserve ForcesPolicy Committee, and she
actually had a lot to do withpolicy changing research.
She ensured safe deployment forat risk soldiers, her policy
leadership expandedinclusiveness within the
Department of Defense, and shealso served as a Robert Wood
Johnson Health Policy fellow,that's a mouthful, and
(02:35):
contributed to the field ofpsychosocial oncology, which she
will also tell us what that allmeans too.
Dana Rampolla (02:42):
Not only that, but she served in various
leadership roles at theUniversity of North Carolina at
Chapel Hill in their school ofnursing.
She continues to be a professorthere.
And general, should we call hergeneral or doctor?
Because she has so manycredentials at the end of her
name.
Well, she also served as theNational Academy of Medicine
(03:03):
Distinguished Nurse Scholar inResidence Today on the UMB
Pulse, we hope to give listenersan insightful view into Dr.
Peggy Chamberlain Wilmoth'scareer that reflects a
commitment to healthcare policyand military service that's
transformative leader in boththe military and nursing fields
and public health policy.
(03:24):
And it's very interesting to us,Charles.
I think I speak for both of usas co hosts of the UMB pulse
because she is a two time alumnaof our school of nursing and a
proud one at that.
Charles Schelle (03:36):
Reporting for duty, General Wilmoth!
You're listening to theheartbeat of the University of
Maryland, Baltimore, the UMBPulse.
Dana Rampolla (03:55):
Hi Peggy, welcome to our UMB Pulse podcast.
Peggy Wilmonth (03:59):
Well thank you very much for having me today.
And I want to give a disclaimerupfront, I'm getting over a
cold, so please forgive thefroggy voice.
Dana Rampolla (04:07):
Well, we're happy to have you here and we
appreciate you coming on, evenwith a froggy voice.
Peggy Wilmonth (04:12):
Thanks.
Thank you.
Dana Rampolla (04:13):
We have a lot of questions to ask you today and
let's just jump right in bytalking about a little bit about
your time at UMB and how thatlaid a foundation for your
notable career in nursing andmilitary leadership.
Tell us what initially drew youto nursing and how UMB
influenced your career path.
Well, I always.
I wanted to be a nurse.
I grew up in an era where womendidn't have as many choices as
(04:36):
they do today, but I had somevery important mentors and role
models in my life.
One is an aunt who is a nurse,and the other was an army nurse
from World War II who livedacross the street.
So between watching my aunt gothrough a diploma at your school
and then visiting with the armynurse corps officer from across
the street, the two of themreally influenced my interest in
(04:58):
being both a nurse, but not justa nurse, but joining the
military.
And I was very fortunate to beable to live my dream of being
an army nurse.
I'm very fortunate in thatregard.
Thank you first and foremost foryour service and how did you
wind up at UMB?
Peggy Wilmonth (05:16):
I well lived in Maryland at the time and I
applied to several otherschools, but I got into
University of Maryland CollegePark.
And then, of course, you had todo the two years and do well
enough to get accepted into theupper division major and moved
to Baltimore and was justtransformed the first time I
drove up the BW Parkway.
And I was just so excited to beat the University of Maryland.
(05:38):
I had some fabulous faculty.
Sally Peralhoff was veryinformative, instructive, gave
me the swift kick in my derrierewhen I needed it to Do more than
just get along.
And Margaret McEntee was a veryimportant professor of my
undergraduate, my senior year.
I was just blessed.
Great friends, great faculty,wonderful learning experiences.
(06:03):
And then I came back for mymaster's degree.
At the University of Marylandafter going away for a year to a
medical college in Virginia,where I was a nurse intern.
And that is where I changed myfocus for my clinical career.
Margaret McEntee inspired, andmy aunt was a cardiac nurse, and
(06:23):
they inspired me to go intocardiac nursing.
And my, year internship atMedical College of Virginia
included six months in the openheart recovery room where I took
care of everyone from valvereplacements, bypasses to
infants with major surgery toheart transplant patients all in
(06:43):
my first six months of school.
And then I went to a surgicaloncology unit going from taking
care of one or two patients ashift to a unit of cancer
patients, particularly with headand neck cancer patients.
That was a very difficulttransition, but that's where I
fell in love with oncologynursing.
(07:04):
And then from there, I went to aburn unit and worked in a burn
unit for my last four months ofmy internship.
And burn unit nursing.
It's very hard work and youbecome very autocratic, and my
roommates did not appreciate mecoming home and basically
telling them how high to jumpbecause that is what you have to
do when you're working with burnpatients.
But I fell in love with oncologynursing from that experience
(07:27):
because I felt it, I was able touse the full scope of what we
had been taught in myundergraduate nursing program
about the full range of care forindividuals.
And so that's where I focused inmy master's program was looking
at oncology nursing, and Iworked during my master's
program at the University ofMaryland hospital on oncology
(07:47):
unit there.
Dana Rampolla (07:49):
So you had some very intense nursing, in my
opinion, you're not just.
Taking care of little problemsor sopping up small wounds, you
dove right in head first.
And just to clarify, Peggy, whenyou've referred to University of
Maryland a couple of times, doyou mean University of Maryland
Baltimore for all of thateducation or did you split some
time between College Park andBaltimore.
Peggy Wilmonth (08:11):
The first two years were in College Park, my
freshman and sophomore years.
I was in a sorority and lived athome part of that time.
And then the last two years werewhat we called a UMAB at the
time, University of Maryland atBaltimore, UMB.
And that was my junior andsenior years.
And then for my master's programat UMB.
Dana Rampolla (08:29):
Wonderful.
Well, what was it about themilitary service, just a little
bit more about that, thatinspired you to combine it with
nursing?
Was it simply having that personin your life or did, were there
other people or experiences thatguided that trajectory?
Because it is rather unique.
Peggy Wilmonth (08:47):
At the time when I was in high school and going
into college, University ofMaryland was partnered with the
Walter Reed Army Institute ofNursing, the RAINN program, and
I tried to get into the RAINNprogram, but I chased boys too
much one summer and one of myhigh school math scores grades
(09:08):
was not as high as it shouldhave been.
So I was not accepted into theRAINN program.
And so that was my first attemptat becoming an Army nurse.
To get that Army nursingeducation as a nurse through the
RAINN program, Which ispartnered with the University of
Maryland.
And then as I was graduating, Iwas trying to go active duty
nursing, but that's when Vietnamwas winding down and they were
(09:30):
shrinking the size of the force.
So that road was blocked.
So it wasn't until I hadgraduated with a master's degree
and I was already teachingnursing at the University of
Delaware, and I had a child thatI was actually commissioned into
the Army Reserve.
And so I, for 35, 40 years, Ihad two careers at the same
(09:51):
time.
I was a professor by that time,teaching at the university of
Delaware and moved a little bitand got my PhD in nursing.
And then I also had a secondcareer in the army reserve.
I balanced two careers for 35years.
And I feel it really gave me thebest of both worlds.
(10:12):
I truly believe one informed theother, and I truly believe that
my leader skills were developedas a result of my Army career,
not so much in my nursingacademic career.
So I really felt that theyreally helped, both careers
(10:33):
helped shape me in a very uniqueway.
Dana Rampolla (10:36):
Well, and it's interesting, too, because you've
mentioned two careers, but youalso were a mother through this
whole time.
Peggy Wilmonth (10:42):
And a single mother for much of that time,
too.
So, yes.
And
Dana Rampolla (10:46):
that's responsibility.
Peggy Wilmonth (10:47):
It was.
And at the time where I wasteaching, it was a nine month
academic appointment.
So, therefore, I felt I couldkind of be a better mother in
the summers, if you will.
So that kind of helped me beable to balance that three
legged stool that I believereservists all balance.
Active duty, as much as theywere 24 7 365 in uniform, they
(11:13):
balance one job and families.
Reservists, no matter whetheryou're artillery, or a
logistician, or healthcare,you're juggling two careers, the
demands of two careers, as wellas your family and community
responsibilities.
Because not only in the militaryare you required.
(11:34):
Particularly as a healthprofessional to maintain your
civilian credentialing.
In order to get promoted in themilitary, you must do certain
types of military education atprescribed times to get promoted
to the next rank.
And that's whether you're anenlisted individual or an
officer.
So there's a lot of demands ifyou're in the reserve component
(11:56):
because you're trying to juggleall of these things and keep
everything moving forwardwithout dropping any balls.
Charles Schelle (12:03):
Yeah, that's a lot to take on between the
different responsibilities andas you said, you're on the
army's clock, right?
when it comes to these things soYou were the first US Army nurse
to command a medical brigade asa general officer Yes, could you
share a little bit about whatthat role entailed?
(12:26):
Maybe people aren't familiarwith all the things that go into
nursing in that setting, andthen what it meant to be the
first nurse to hold such aposition.
Peggy Wilmonth (12:36):
It was really a humbling honor, humbling and
very honored.
I was very honored to do that.
I had already had a battalionlevel command.
So that battalion in the medicalworld, you're usually in, in the
rest of the army, you're usuallya lieutenant colonel and having
a battalion, which is usuallyabout four companies.
So you've got, Between 700 and1000 individuals you're
(12:57):
responsible for.
In the medical world, I had abattalion as a full bird
colonel.
I had finished the Army WarCollege, which was a part time
distance ed course for twoyears, while I was in command as
a battalion commander.
And I had a hospital inGreensboro, North Carolina.
And then I had some othersmaller units around North
(13:18):
Carolina and South Carolina.
And that meant I was responsiblefor the quality of training and
all personnel actions and allour equipment for this
battalion.
When I became a brigadecommander at the time, now that
they've changed them to colonellevel commands, but at the time
they were one star commands, Iwas the commanding general for
(13:41):
every reserve unit.
across eight states in PuertoRico.
That meant I had 6, 000 soldiersI was responsible for.
In 54 different units.
We doubled in size when I tookcommand.
So I grew without the staff thatone needed to manage all those
people.
So the old acronym, you'rebuilding it while we fly.
(14:01):
We were building commandstructures to support all of
these elements that I wasresponsible and accountable for
while I was still teaching fulltime.
Mind you, this was a part timejob.
And I would travel everyweekend.
To visit varying units across mycommand structure and meet with
leaders, meet with soldiers tobe sure that they were doing the
(14:23):
kind of training and preparingwhatever they were had to
prepare for training.
And this was 2005 to 2008.
So we were deploying units toIraq and Afghanistan at that
time.
So we were very busy trying tomake sure that all these units,
whether they were dental unitsor combat support hospitals,
were getting all their predeployment training, doing all
(14:45):
their pre deployment medicalreadiness.
We're going off to do specialtraining at Camp Parks,
California.
Because they were going to be ina combat zone, so they had to
know how to function and operatein a combat zone, not just be
proficient in their medicalskills, they had to be
proficient in their military andarmy skills.
And so we were sending units offand welcoming units home during
(15:07):
that period of time.
And again, I was still workingfull time at the university.
So I was juggling an awful lot.
As was everyone else in mycommand.
It wasn't just me, but whenyou're the commanding general,
the buck stops with you and asthe first nurse, and as I think
we could understand from theelection a little bit that when
(15:27):
you're the first, you getscrutinized.
And you get scrutinized veryheavily.
And at the time being the firstmeans, people are always
watching you.
So it was as an honor, but itwas a very difficult experience.
I was also during that period oftime appointed to serve on the
army reserve forces policycommittee.
(15:50):
By the Secretary of the Army, soquarterly, I was flying into the
Pentagon for meetings with myother general officers from the
Guard, active duty and reserveto talk about issues that
affected the mobilization anddeployment of the force.
So I really had some solidpolicy experiences, policy
development experiences at that,during that period of time as
(16:13):
the commanding general as well.
Charles Schelle (16:15):
You talked a lot about the nuts and bolts of
it and bureaucratic kind ofparts of it as well, but, as
you've been touching on.
The balance it takes between thedemands of this and then demands
of your job and family.
How did you handle those timespersonally just to keep yourself
grounded and all the stress andI'm sure anxiety that, that
(16:37):
comes with leading in multipleplaces?
Peggy Wilmonth (16:41):
Well, let me also add that my son was in the
army at the time.
It was on the invasion forceinto Iraq.
And so, that was 2003 that hewas on in the evasion force.
And he didn't write, I didn'thear from him for six months.
So when I would send soldiersoff.
I would say, no matter what youdo, write your mother snail
mail.
(17:01):
I don't care if you are able tocall her, you will write to your
mother.
And I had the experience onetime welcoming a unit home and
one young man said to me, ma'am,my mother said to say, thank you
because of you, I wrote to her.
And so that, that's, those arethe things that you remember
that, you made a difference insome mom's life.
(17:23):
My son I have not yet let himforget that he's never wrote to
me.
He's on his third deploymentright now, so, so I'm still
living, even though I'm retiredfrom the military, I'm still
very much involved as a militarymom.
But I worked out and physicalfitness and eight hours of sleep
a night.
I truly believe those are thingsthat leaders need to role model
(17:46):
for others, and I know I neededit for myself.
So, and I had a dog, have a dog,had one then.
And so, pets and physicalfitness.
Eating right, sleeping, allthose things that we know that
we need to do really are whathelp me handle the stress.
Charles Schelle (18:04):
Yeah, it's all about putting yourself first and
when you have everyone pullingfor your time, right?
Yes.
Well, as you were talking,looking over soldiers and
yourself and your son.
You still had to get to work andshape policies and practices
within the military.
How did your leadership helpshape these, policies,
(18:27):
especially regarding, healthcareand how, healthcare was afforded
to these soldiers, whether it'shere or in combat.
Peggy Wilmonth (18:35):
Well, interestingly enough, I had the
privilege after I finished mycommand in 2008, I applied for
the.
Johnson Health PolicyFellowship, and I was fortunate
enough to be selected to be aRobert Wood Johnson Foundation
Health Policy Fellow, 2009 to2010.
So I learned about big healthpolicy and how it's made by that
(18:59):
phenomenal experience.
It was truly an honor to be aRDFJ Foundation Health Policy
Fellow and to be there when wepassed the Affordable Care Act
and to watch how that was thenturned into regulations.
And then my second one starassignment was as the assistant
for mobilization and readiness.
In the office of the AssistantSecretary of Defense for Health
(19:22):
Affairs, where we actually madehealth policy for the entire
force.
And so those experiences reallyhelped hone my ability to
understand policy, to look atpolicy, to do policy analysis,
and to think about policy fromnot just the strategic pieces,
(19:44):
but also look at it from thetactical level and in, in, in
the weeds and how does it reallyget implemented.
So those experiences were reallyinformative.
And then as a two star, I didpolicy as the Deputy Surgeon
General for the Army Reserve,and I had a second stint on the
Army Reserve Forces PolicyCommittee.
(20:05):
So I worked in policy in thatspace as well.
Dana Rampolla (20:09):
And then Peggy, you were also involved in
research, right?
That research, from myunderstanding, played a pivotal
role in the deployment of atrisk soldiers, could you give us
some insights into the specificchallenges that the soldiers
faced and what your researchaimed to, to address?
Peggy Wilmonth (20:27):
First off, I had read an article written by a
reserve component physiciansaying that when reservists were
deployed into theater, in war,that they were less prepared to
handle war on a daily basis thanactive component because the
active component does war allthe time or does military all
the time.
(20:47):
Well, as a reservist, I wasinsulted because I felt
everyone, no one wants to go towar.
I mean, we have a strongmilitary to try to preserve the
peace.
No one wants to go to war, butwe train for it.
We prepare for it.
And so I got my team inside OSDHealth Affairs.
We started looking at the dataand did a data analysis about
(21:09):
who was most likely to be sentout of theater for psychiatric
mental health problems.
And we found it wasn't thereservist at all.
It was younger individuals,younger women primarily, who
might've left theater.
Young children at home, and theywere like 20 to 24 year old
women with young kids who werereally struggling with what it
(21:31):
meant to be a parent and be asoldier and be deployed.
And so we as we looked at thosedata, we also looked at the
number, the data around.
the military in the period priorto the surge in Iraq, that
General Petraeus hadimplemented.
(21:51):
That was successful.
But in order to have enoughservicemen and women to man the
force, they allowed individualsto move.
Some individuals with some preexisting mental health
challenges to be assessed in themilitary.
And so in looking at those datawe were able to get CENTCOM
deployment policy modified.
(22:14):
to try to reduce the harm andrisk of sending those with known
mental health diagnoses intotheater.
And I don't know where thosepolicies stand today.
They've just released I think Iheard mod 17 to the CENTCOM
deployment policy.
So I don't know how that haschanged in the intervening
years, but but for that periodof time so about 2012 13, after
(22:38):
the surge, they were able tomake some modifications I'm
really proud that we were ableto make a difference and
hopefully some individuals havebetter experiences or less
traumatic experiences.
Because of that.
Charles Schelle (22:49):
Following up on those comments, there are a lot
of conflicts going on around theworld right now, and we're on
the edges of some supporting,whether that's Ukraine or the
Middle East, or things that areheating up in the Pacific, and
in regards to health of soldiersand all, is there anything maybe
(23:09):
the American people should takemore time to pay attention to or
keep their eyes on as far aswhether it's policy or things
that soldiers need as far astheir health?
Peggy Wilmonth (23:21):
Well, I would let me go back a little further
and talk in a bigger sense aboutthe state of our youth today.
We all know that our adolescentshave a huge mental health
challenge.
COVID was very stressful formany and social media in some
cases is detrimental to theemotional health of young men
(23:42):
and young women.
And life is very stressful foreveryone.
We also have a huge issue in ouryouth of obesity.
75 percent of America'sadolescents today do not meet
the criteria to join ourmilitary.
And part of that is due toobesity.
Part of it is due to felonyconvictions.
(24:02):
Part of it is due to drug use.
And part of it is due to pooreducation.
So, there, there's a lot ofissues that the American public
should be concerned with.
Not only in obesity in our youthwith type 2 diabetes growing in
young children and teens obesityin our adults is a huge problem.
(24:24):
Economically, it's going tobreak our healthcare system from
the cost of care of thesecomplex chronic illnesses and
that is, impacts our ability torecruit qualified individuals
into the military.
We're at 50 years into the allvolunteer force, and we can't
man that force because we haveso few who, even if they want to
(24:47):
serve, have problems withserving.
They don't meet the standards.
And I know the military has beendoing a review of our accessions
policy, and they are now goingto allow Waivers for individuals
with 51 new conditions to bewaived in to serve in the
military.
And we don't know what the longterm effect of that is going to
(25:09):
have on the health and wellbeing of those who serve, who
are allowed to serve with theseconditions and what that's going
to be at the other end in termsof their own health or care that
we as the American people owethem for volunteering to serve.
Dana Rampolla (25:24):
That's really scary.
Not anything I've ever eventhought about.
It's sad to say,
Peggy Wilmonth (25:29):
Well, only 1 percent of Americans volunteer
to serve in our military today.
So 99 percent have no awarenessor understanding of, or, it's
not in the aperture at all to,to think about that.
And so, while the all builtvolunteer force is good in that
we don't, we aren't facing adraft.
It means that fewer and fewerknow what it means to serve or
(25:52):
know what the cost of servingare.
And then the other issue that wecould come up to play with, if
we don't have enough tovolunteer to serve, does that
mean we have to restart thedraft?
And then right now women are notpart of that picture.
And what does that mean?
So I think those are some bigmacro policy questions we're
(26:15):
going to face as a country goingforward.
Charles Schelle (26:17):
Yeah, thank you for bringing those up,
especially now with a new era ofAmerican politics entering and
what's going on abroad.
It's, you're right.
It's very important to payattention to.
Peggy Wilmonth (26:28):
Well, I will tell you, I was in, in the
Balkans this summer in, in amilitary cause, a military role
and speaking to ministers ofdefense and leaders of their
military, and they are veryanxious because if we pull out
of NATO, they know what's goingto happen and who's going to
come across and into theirborders.
So it's very tense time overthere.
Charles Schelle (26:48):
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Dana Rampolla (26:51):
Peggy, You've dabbled a little bit with
inclusivity by talking aboutwomen and what was the impact of
your work in expandinginclusiveness within the
Department of Defense?
Specifically, how's your policyleadership influence that
military culture andopportunities for maybe other
diverse groups within theorganization?
Peggy Wilmonth (27:13):
Well, interestingly enough, one of the
last assignments I had was whenSecretary Carlson worked and
brought leaders from all themilitary departments together to
expand the ability oftransgendered individuals to
serve openly in our military.
And I was assigned that task tobe the Army Surgeon General's
(27:35):
representative on that taskforce.
So my last six months inuniform, I was in weekly
meetings with other leaders fromthe Department of Defense to
craft and draft the policy toallow transgendered individuals
to serve openly in our military.
And I truly believe that anyAmerican who wants to serve
(27:56):
ought to be able to serve in ourmilitary.
And regardless of genderorientation I, I, if you want to
serve, we ought to make it, finda way for you to serve.
Again, since so few Americansare propense to serve, who are
we to tell someone that theyshouldn't be able to serve
because they may be gay or betransgendered?
(28:18):
And so that was a reallyimportant part of my last six
months of work, of which I'mvery proud.
I learned a lot.
And interestingly enough, mydoctoral work at Penn was
looking at the impact of cancerand cancer treatments on
intimacy and sexuality.
So while a lot of what we wrotein the Department of Defense for
(28:41):
transgendered individuals wasaround personnel policy, not
health care policy, I felt thatI was at least Potentially more
open and understanding thanothers say from the Marine Corps
might be.
When we began to approach thatwork, it the experience of
(29:02):
working with those individualson that committee was truly hard
work, but it, we all came at itfrom working to be as
nonjudgmental and as unbiased aswe possibly could, and I believe
we crafted a very solid policyfor that that work for those
(29:22):
individuals to serve.
Charles Schelle (29:24):
And that dovetails in to what I was about
to ask about psychosocialoncology and your contributions.
Can you explain to people whatpsychosocial oncology is and
what motivated you to focus onthat area?
Peggy Wilmonth (29:39):
Well, turn back to the time when I was a head
and neck cancer nurse and I wasworking with some of my patients
at the University of Marylandhospital.
And I had one woman who had ahalf of her jaw removed and half
of her tongue.
And that was in the days beforepeg tubes that fed people
through their stomach.
So she had a tube coming out ofher nose to eat with and her
(30:03):
first name have to be Peggy.
And she threw a temper tantrumone morning.
I look horrible.
I can't kiss my husband.
He won't come near me.
This cancer has robbed me of myrelationship.
And I had Even to go backfurther, in my senior year at
Maryland, we had a choice of twoelectives, death ed or sex ed.
(30:26):
I took the sex ed, I couldn'timagine talking about death for
a semester.
So I took the human sexualitycourse with Susan Hetherington.
And so I felt like when Peggyhad, said this like, Oh, my God,
I took this course.
I was supposed to be comfortablewith, and at least aware of the
impact of health issues,diagnoses on the human being.
(30:52):
And I completely missed it.
So I felt incredibly guilty thatI had not considered this as
part of it.
My role as a nurse that Icompletely ignored the impact of
her cancer and her cancertreatments for just figuring
cancer surgery on her as a womanand then on her intimate
(31:15):
relationships.
And so I owe it to my patientsfor taking the shutters off my
eyes.
And so I started talking to moreand more of our head and neck
cancer patients.
And I had another gentleman whowe'd even made home visits to
because he was dehydrated.
And, found out that I was veryprivileged.
I knew how to put a blendertogether out of a box and he
(31:37):
didn't.
So it was again my white AngloSaxon upper middle class
bringing that I didn't know thatpatients would go home and not
know how to assemble a piece ofequipment that they'd been using
in the hospital, but we had nottaught them how to put it
together.
So those issues and then meetinghim in the outpatient clinic and
(31:58):
talking about the fact thatsince he'd had his head and neck
cancer surgery.
He was no longer able to haveerections.
Well, no one had talked to himabout his alcoholism and how
alcohol and then gettingdebilitated could affect his
performance.
And so again, it was another oneof those moments, I'm crying,
(32:18):
he's crying.
And I really felt that I hadfailed again in not pulling
together All my knowledge to tryto provide high quality care to
these individuals.
So that's, I started my master'sprogram, and I started asking
our patients about body imageand sexuality.
And I was talking to one of oursurgeons one time, and he said,
(32:41):
So Peggy, these people are allover 60.
Why are you talking to them?
Y'all know once you're 60,you're not interested in sex
anymore.
And I was a smart aleck, 25 yearold, and I looked at him, and I
said, So on your 60th birthday,are you going to tell your wife
that's it, no more separatebedrooms?
And He got walked away from me.
But I felt again ageism.
(33:01):
He was putting his values on ourpatients.
And so that's where I gotstarted looking at the impact of
emotions and familyrelationships and cancer
treatments.
On patients with cancer.
And so I did my master's thesislooking at that, wrote my first
paper with my master's withSusan Hetherington about that,
(33:23):
and then did doctoral work on itat Penn.
And, but then I got waylaid intomilitary health policy later in
my life, but I'm still verypassionate because I really feel
sometimes in, in healthcaretoday, we're so busy with the
checkoff on the computer.
And we forget about those kindsof things and just sitting at
the side of the bed, not at thefoot of the bed, not standing at
(33:45):
the foot of the bed, but sittingFace to face, eyeball to
eyeball, and just saying, howare you doing, can make a huge
world of difference and thenopen up areas where we as nurses
can make referrals and help makepatients lives better, which is
why we're all in nursing tobegin with.
Charles Schelle (34:02):
Do you feel like that approach is beginning
to show itself in hospital roomsor do you think that we have a
ways to go for people to embracethat philosophy?
Peggy Wilmonth (34:12):
I still think we have a ways to go.
I really do.
Again, we're so technologicallyoriented and fast paced and
patients are in and out so, soquickly in hospitals that some
of that care has to take placeelsewhere, whether it's
outpatient or follow upphysician visits.
I know when I was living inKansas, finishing my doctoral
(34:35):
degree and teaching communityhealth, I really found that was
the optimal way to make adifference when my students and
I would go into people's homes.
And having a chance to engagewith them, seeing where they
lived, meeting them where theywere, not in a hospital, which
is where we live.
That's our home.
(34:55):
It's our place.
Medical professionals own it.
It's the home and the communitywhere we really can make a
difference.
Dana Rampolla (35:02):
Did you feel like part of that was because you had
more time with them or meet themin their place?
Peggy Wilmonth (35:08):
I think part of it was also my maturation as a
nurse, Benner wrote about fromnovice to expert.
And I truly think that as we goacross our full length of
career, we move from novice toexpert.
So once you get past being anovice and know how to do the
technical things, then you canbegin to expand and incorporate
other kinds of thinking and careinto your work.
Dana Rampolla (35:29):
Well, Peggy, you've certainly had an
accomplished career, both innursing and military.
What advice would you offer newnurses or health care
professionals, especially ifthey're interested in going
outside of the box?
They might be looking for aleadership or a policy
opportunity.
Peggy Wilmonth (35:47):
First off, your career is a marathon, not a
sprint, so you don't have to doeverything in 5 or 10 years.
I would say be willing to risk.
Don't let others put you in abox.
My family thought I should be inthe white picket fence, and I
still had the letter from my dadwhen I was joining the army,
you're a wife and a mother, yourplace is at home.
(36:08):
Don't join the army.
I didn't listen.
But because of, because I didn'tlisten, because I didn't allow
myself to be put in that box,I've had all these wonderful
other experiences to allow me toexpand and grow.
This last year I was a NationalAcademy of Medicine
Distinguished Nurse Scholar inResidence funded by the ANA and
(36:28):
the American Academy of Nursingand the American Nurses
Foundation.
I wouldn't have had thatexperience.
I would have been a healthpolicy fellow if I hadn't done
some of these other kinds ofgrowth opportunities and gone
outside of straight clinicalnursing.
And I was just elected to be the84th president of what we now
call the Reserve Organization ofAmerica.
(36:49):
It's an 102 year oldorganization that advocates for
all serving reservists.
It was the Reserve OfficersAssociation, started by General
Pershing after World War I.
I'm only the third woman to bepresident of this organization.
So again, it's, you have to findyour own path and you have to be
(37:10):
willing to risk.
And to be true to yourself andto look at yourself in the
mirror and know that you'refollowing your own path and not
the path that others think youshould be following.
Dana Rampolla (37:26):
I hope your dad changed his opinion.
Peggy Wilmonth (37:28):
I don't know.
I was a dean for, when I becamea dean at Georgia State, he
goes, I'm really proud you make,you've made general, but being a
dean is really awesome.
So I don't know that he ever gotpast again, he was born when
women, you know, were And, andafter, and after World War II,
women were told to take offtheir Rosie the River clothes
(37:49):
and put the pearls on and goback in the kitchen and, God, I
hope we're not going back there.
But but, so that's what hisframe of reference was.
And um, I don't know why Istepped out of the box like I
did, but I had some phenomenalfemale role models and some men
that opened doors for me when Ididn't necessarily think about
(38:12):
In fact I'll share this onestory.
I was in my battalion command.
I had one year left in commandand a general officer named
General Larry Neitner called meand he goes, well, Colonel
Wilmoth, I'm the new commandinggeneral of the 81st RSC and RSG.
And I would really like you tobe my chief of staff.
And I'm like, well, sir, I'mstill, I'm About a year in
(38:34):
command, blah, blah, blah.
He called me several times, andfinally it dawned on me, someone
was opening a door for me, sawsomething in me I didn't see in
myself.
And thank God, I woke up, and Iwalked through that door because
I left the army medical worldbehind for a period of time and
(38:54):
moved outside of the armymedical arena into the bigger
army and learned about how therest of the army ran.
Had I not done that, had he notoffered that and been so patient
with me, I would not have becomea one star general.
So I think we also have to beaware that sometimes people
from.
(39:15):
Who we might not expect come tous and offer us opportunities,
and we need to step through thatdoor or that window.
It will close.
It'll never open again.
I think too many times nursessell ourselves short, and we
need to own our own power andour own value as nurses.
Dana Rampolla (39:34):
You certainly have had a very successful
career.
And if you were to pick, you'venamed a lot of different things
you've been involved with theproudest moment.
Can you pick one thing thatreally stood out?
Peggy Wilmonth (39:47):
I really can't, because to me it's a
kaleidoscope of things that havekind of come together and
molded.
I think sometimes the fact thatthere were some roadblocks put
in front of me to prevent mefrom being a one star, and then
roadblocks that others put infront of me from becoming a two
star.
(40:07):
And they were such that mostpeople would have just thrown in
the towel and retired as a onestar.
And I forced the system to work.
And the fact that the systemworked when I had the tenacity
and went through what I wentthrough to make the system work
validated for me the importanceof knowing your value and owning
(40:29):
your power and believing inyourself so that you can force
the system to work.
And in my case, I was fortunatethat I was became a two star
general.
But the other things that makeme most proud have been my
students and the students thatI've worked with who have gone
on to achieve in their ownright.
(40:50):
And again, as with anyone wholooks back, it's those that
you've helped along the way thatreally validates the hard work
that you do.
Dana Rampolla (40:59):
True.
And what would you hope to leaveas a legacy for future
generations?
Is it that giving them theopportunity?
Peggy Wilmonth (41:08):
The opportunity and I would love for more
nurses.
to own the value of what we asnurses do and don't allow
someone to say, or you to evensay, I'm just a nurse.
Because that puts us all down.
I believe nursing is a fabulousprofession that sometimes we box
(41:31):
ourselves in.
We speak to our own choir.
We do not get out of our ownway.
We need to be outside of nursingin many cases.
Talking about the values that wehold in leading outside of
nursing, if we truly want tomake a change in our profession.
And so that's what I feel themilitary has allowed me to do,
is to speak outside of my siloof nursing, and more of us need
(41:55):
to do that.
Charles Schelle (41:56):
You've absolutely broken glass ceilings
for nurses and women inleadership.
And we're recording this a fewdays ahead of Veterans Day.
So thank you for your service.
Thank you for everything you'vedone and keeping in touch and
active with the University ofMaryland, Baltimore and the
School of Nursing, even asyou're with another institution.
(42:17):
And so, Peggy thank you so muchfor coming on to the UMB Pulse.
Peggy Wilmonth (42:23):
Well, thank you so much for having me.
Happy Veterans Day to all theveterans who are listening and
to their families.
Thank you.
Jena Frick (42:34):
The UMB Pulse with Charles Schelle and Dana
Rampolla is a UMB Office ofCommunications and Public
Affairs production, edited byCharles Schelle marketing by
Dana Rampolla.
Hi, Charles.
(00:00):
How are you today?
Charles Schelle (00:02):
Great, Dana.
How are you doing?
Dana Rampolla (00:04):
I'm good.
I'm good.
So it is November.
This is the month that wecelebrate Veterans Day.
And I wanted to ask you, haveyou ever read the new book?
It came out earlier this year.
It's a historical fiction bookwritten by Kristin Hannah.
It's called"The Women."
Charles Schelle (00:18):
Can't say that I have.
Dana Rampolla (00:20):
No?
It's a great book.
I recommend reading it.
I.
I actually learned a lot.
That's what I like abouthistorical fiction is it's a
good story, but you can learn alot with it.
And so this particular booktalks about women who were
nurses during Vietnam.
And it tells the specific storyof 1 woman and the challenges
she faced, not only with beingin Vietnam period, because she
(00:43):
was on the front line, and itwas very traumatic, but also how
she was in a male dominatedenvironment working as a nurse,
assuming tremendous amounts ofresponsibility that women nurses
at that time may not haveexperienced in other settings.
I think that we know what menwho served in Vietnam
experienced, but it was veryinsightful to look at what women
(01:06):
experienced because a lot ofpeople didn't recognize that
they were even in Vietnam andhere she was literally on the
front lines.
Charles Schelle (01:13):
Interesting.
Well, it sounds like, quite across section of nursing and
military service.
I'm a fan of reading biographiesand autobiographies.
So if only there was someone'slife that I could read and hear
about that fit that description.
Dana Rampolla (01:28):
Well, I'm sure there is, and at the very least,
today we're going to talk tosomeone who lived that
experience firsthand.
She graduated from theUniversity of Maryland,
Baltimore.
She went to our School ofNursing, and her name is General
Margaret Chamberlain Wilmoth.
She goes by Peggy, and she'ssuch a nice lady and so
approachable and has so manygreat lessons to share from her
(01:50):
experience.
Charles Schelle (01:52):
General Wilmoth, Peggy, as you said she
is the first U S army nurse tocommand a medical brigade as a
general officer.
She'll tell us what that meansand what that looked like.
She served as an Army ReserveDeputy Surgeon General, while
she's balancing a life of alittle bit of everything, being
a single mother and still havinga career, served as the Deputy
(02:14):
Chair of the Army Reserve ForcesPolicy Committee, and she
actually had a lot to do withpolicy changing research.
She ensured safe deployment forat risk soldiers, her policy
leadership expandedinclusiveness within the
Department of Defense, and shealso served as a Robert Wood
Johnson Health Policy fellow,that's a mouthful, and
(02:35):
contributed to the field ofpsychosocial oncology, which she
will also tell us what that allmeans too.
Dana Rampolla (02:42):
Not only that, but she served in various
leadership roles at theUniversity of North Carolina at
Chapel Hill in their school ofnursing.
She continues to be a professorthere.
And general, should we call hergeneral or doctor?
Because she has so manycredentials at the end of her
name.
Well, she also served as theNational Academy of Medicine
(03:03):
Distinguished Nurse Scholar inResidence Today on the UMB
Pulse, we hope to give listenersan insightful view into Dr.
Peggy Chamberlain Wilmoth'scareer that reflects a
commitment to healthcare policyand military service that's
transformative leader in boththe military and nursing fields
and public health policy.
(03:24):
And it's very interesting to us,Charles.
I think I speak for both of usas co hosts of the UMB pulse
because she is a two time alumnaof our school of nursing and a
proud one at that.
Charles Schelle (03:36):
Reporting for duty, General Wilmoth!
You're listening to theheartbeat of the University of
Maryland, Baltimore, the UMBPulse.
Dana Rampolla (03:55):
Hi Peggy, welcome to our UMB Pulse podcast.
Peggy Wilmonth (03:59):
Well thank you very much for having me today.
And I want to give a disclaimerupfront, I'm getting over a
cold, so please forgive thefroggy voice.
Dana Rampolla (04:07):
Well, we're happy to have you here and we
appreciate you coming on, evenwith a froggy voice.
Peggy Wilmonth (04:12):
Thanks.
Thank you.
Dana Rampolla (04:13):
We have a lot of questions to ask you today and
let's just jump right in bytalking about a little bit about
your time at UMB and how thatlaid a foundation for your
notable career in nursing andmilitary leadership.
Tell us what initially drew youto nursing and how UMB
influenced your career path.
Well, I always.
I wanted to be a nurse.
I grew up in an era where womendidn't have as many choices as
(04:36):
they do today, but I had somevery important mentors and role
models in my life.
One is an aunt who is a nurse,and the other was an army nurse
from World War II who livedacross the street.
So between watching my aunt gothrough a diploma at your school
and then visiting with the armynurse corps officer from across
the street, the two of themreally influenced my interest in
(04:58):
being both a nurse, but not justa nurse, but joining the
military.
And I was very fortunate to beable to live my dream of being
an army nurse.
I'm very fortunate in thatregard.
Thank you first and foremost foryour service and how did you
wind up at UMB?
Peggy Wilmonth (05:16):
I well lived in Maryland at the time and I
applied to several otherschools, but I got into
University of Maryland CollegePark.
And then, of course, you had todo the two years and do well
enough to get accepted into theupper division major and moved
to Baltimore and was justtransformed the first time I
drove up the BW Parkway.
And I was just so excited to beat the University of Maryland.
(05:38):
I had some fabulous faculty.
Sally Peralhoff was veryinformative, instructive, gave
me the swift kick in my derrierewhen I needed it to Do more than
just get along.
And Margaret McEntee was a veryimportant professor of my
undergraduate, my senior year.
I was just blessed.
Great friends, great faculty,wonderful learning experiences.
(06:03):
And then I came back for mymaster's degree.
At the University of Marylandafter going away for a year to a
medical college in Virginia,where I was a nurse intern.
And that is where I changed myfocus for my clinical career.
Margaret McEntee inspired, andmy aunt was a cardiac nurse, and
(06:23):
they inspired me to go intocardiac nursing.
And my, year internship atMedical College of Virginia
included six months in the openheart recovery room where I took
care of everyone from valvereplacements, bypasses to
infants with major surgery toheart transplant patients all in
(06:43):
my first six months of school.
And then I went to a surgicaloncology unit going from taking
care of one or two patients ashift to a unit of cancer
patients, particularly with headand neck cancer patients.
That was a very difficulttransition, but that's where I
fell in love with oncologynursing.
(07:04):
And then from there, I went to aburn unit and worked in a burn
unit for my last four months ofmy internship.
And burn unit nursing.
It's very hard work and youbecome very autocratic, and my
roommates did not appreciate mecoming home and basically
telling them how high to jumpbecause that is what you have to
do when you're working with burnpatients.
But I fell in love with oncologynursing from that experience
(07:27):
because I felt it, I was able touse the full scope of what we
had been taught in myundergraduate nursing program
about the full range of care forindividuals.
And so that's where I focused inmy master's program was looking
at oncology nursing, and Iworked during my master's
program at the University ofMaryland hospital on oncology
(07:47):
unit there.
Dana Rampolla (07:49):
So you had some very intense nursing, in my
opinion, you're not just.
Taking care of little problemsor sopping up small wounds, you
dove right in head first.
And just to clarify, Peggy, whenyou've referred to University of
Maryland a couple of times, doyou mean University of Maryland
Baltimore for all of thateducation or did you split some
time between College Park andBaltimore.
Peggy Wilmonth (08:11):
The first two years were in College Park, my
freshman and sophomore years.
I was in a sorority and lived athome part of that time.
And then the last two years werewhat we called a UMAB at the
time, University of Maryland atBaltimore, UMB.
And that was my junior andsenior years.
And then for my master's programat UMB.
Dana Rampolla (08:29):
Wonderful.
Well, what was it about themilitary service, just a little
bit more about that, thatinspired you to combine it with
nursing?
Was it simply having that personin your life or did, were there
other people or experiences thatguided that trajectory?
Because it is rather unique.
Peggy Wilmonth (08:47):
At the time when I was in high school and going
into college, University ofMaryland was partnered with the
Walter Reed Army Institute ofNursing, the RAINN program, and
I tried to get into the RAINNprogram, but I chased boys too
much one summer and one of myhigh school math scores grades
(09:08):
was not as high as it shouldhave been.
So I was not accepted into theRAINN program.
And so that was my first attemptat becoming an Army nurse.
To get that Army nursingeducation as a nurse through the
RAINN program, Which ispartnered with the University of
Maryland.
And then as I was graduating, Iwas trying to go active duty
nursing, but that's when Vietnamwas winding down and they were
(09:30):
shrinking the size of the force.
So that road was blocked.
So it wasn't until I hadgraduated with a master's degree
and I was already teachingnursing at the University of
Delaware, and I had a child thatI was actually commissioned into
the Army Reserve.
And so I, for 35, 40 years, Ihad two careers at the same
(09:51):
time.
I was a professor by that time,teaching at the university of
Delaware and moved a little bitand got my PhD in nursing.
And then I also had a secondcareer in the army reserve.
I balanced two careers for 35years.
And I feel it really gave me thebest of both worlds.
(10:12):
I truly believe one informed theother, and I truly believe that
my leader skills were developedas a result of my Army career,
not so much in my nursingacademic career.
So I really felt that theyreally helped, both careers
(10:33):
helped shape me in a very uniqueway.
Dana Rampolla (10:36):
Well, and it's interesting, too, because you've
mentioned two careers, but youalso were a mother through this
whole time.
Peggy Wilmonth (10:42):
And a single mother for much of that time,
too.
So, yes.
And
Dana Rampolla (10:46):
that's responsibility.
Peggy Wilmonth (10:47):
It was.
And at the time where I wasteaching, it was a nine month
academic appointment.
So, therefore, I felt I couldkind of be a better mother in
the summers, if you will.
So that kind of helped me beable to balance that three
legged stool that I believereservists all balance.
Active duty, as much as theywere 24 7 365 in uniform, they
(11:13):
balance one job and families.
Reservists, no matter whetheryou're artillery, or a
logistician, or healthcare,you're juggling two careers, the
demands of two careers, as wellas your family and community
responsibilities.
Because not only in the militaryare you required.
(11:34):
Particularly as a healthprofessional to maintain your
civilian credentialing.
In order to get promoted in themilitary, you must do certain
types of military education atprescribed times to get promoted
to the next rank.
And that's whether you're anenlisted individual or an
officer.
So there's a lot of demands ifyou're in the reserve component
(11:56):
because you're trying to juggleall of these things and keep
everything moving forwardwithout dropping any balls.
Charles Schelle (12:03):
Yeah, that's a lot to take on between the
different responsibilities andas you said, you're on the
army's clock, right?
when it comes to these things soYou were the first US Army nurse
to command a medical brigade asa general officer Yes, could you
share a little bit about whatthat role entailed?
(12:26):
Maybe people aren't familiarwith all the things that go into
nursing in that setting, andthen what it meant to be the
first nurse to hold such aposition.
Peggy Wilmonth (12:36):
It was really a humbling honor, humbling and
very honored.
I was very honored to do that.
I had already had a battalionlevel command.
So that battalion in the medicalworld, you're usually in, in the
rest of the army, you're usuallya lieutenant colonel and having
a battalion, which is usuallyabout four companies.
So you've got, Between 700 and1000 individuals you're
(12:57):
responsible for.
In the medical world, I had abattalion as a full bird
colonel.
I had finished the Army WarCollege, which was a part time
distance ed course for twoyears, while I was in command as
a battalion commander.
And I had a hospital inGreensboro, North Carolina.
And then I had some othersmaller units around North
(13:18):
Carolina and South Carolina.
And that meant I was responsiblefor the quality of training and
all personnel actions and allour equipment for this
battalion.
When I became a brigadecommander at the time, now that
they've changed them to colonellevel commands, but at the time
they were one star commands, Iwas the commanding general for
(13:41):
every reserve unit.
across eight states in PuertoRico.
That meant I had 6, 000 soldiersI was responsible for.
In 54 different units.
We doubled in size when I tookcommand.
So I grew without the staff thatone needed to manage all those
people.
So the old acronym, you'rebuilding it while we fly.
(14:01):
We were building commandstructures to support all of
these elements that I wasresponsible and accountable for
while I was still teaching fulltime.
Mind you, this was a part timejob.
And I would travel everyweekend.
To visit varying units across mycommand structure and meet with
leaders, meet with soldiers tobe sure that they were doing the
(14:23):
kind of training and preparingwhatever they were had to
prepare for training.
And this was 2005 to 2008.
So we were deploying units toIraq and Afghanistan at that
time.
So we were very busy trying tomake sure that all these units,
whether they were dental unitsor combat support hospitals,
were getting all their predeployment training, doing all
(14:45):
their pre deployment medicalreadiness.
We're going off to do specialtraining at Camp Parks,
California.
Because they were going to be ina combat zone, so they had to
know how to function and operatein a combat zone, not just be
proficient in their medicalskills, they had to be
proficient in their military andarmy skills.
And so we were sending units offand welcoming units home during
(15:07):
that period of time.
And again, I was still workingfull time at the university.
So I was juggling an awful lot.
As was everyone else in mycommand.
It wasn't just me, but whenyou're the commanding general,
the buck stops with you and asthe first nurse, and as I think
we could understand from theelection a little bit that when
(15:27):
you're the first, you getscrutinized.
And you get scrutinized veryheavily.
And at the time being the firstmeans, people are always
watching you.
So it was as an honor, but itwas a very difficult experience.
I was also during that period oftime appointed to serve on the
army reserve forces policycommittee.
(15:50):
By the Secretary of the Army, soquarterly, I was flying into the
Pentagon for meetings with myother general officers from the
Guard, active duty and reserveto talk about issues that
affected the mobilization anddeployment of the force.
So I really had some solidpolicy experiences, policy
development experiences at that,during that period of time as
(16:13):
the commanding general as well.
Charles Schelle (16:15):
You talked a lot about the nuts and bolts of
it and bureaucratic kind ofparts of it as well, but, as
you've been touching on.
The balance it takes between thedemands of this and then demands
of your job and family.
How did you handle those timespersonally just to keep yourself
grounded and all the stress andI'm sure anxiety that, that
(16:37):
comes with leading in multipleplaces?
Peggy Wilmonth (16:41):
Well, let me also add that my son was in the
army at the time.
It was on the invasion forceinto Iraq.
And so, that was 2003 that hewas on in the evasion force.
And he didn't write, I didn'thear from him for six months.
So when I would send soldiersoff.
I would say, no matter what youdo, write your mother snail
mail.
(17:01):
I don't care if you are able tocall her, you will write to your
mother.
And I had the experience onetime welcoming a unit home and
one young man said to me, ma'am,my mother said to say, thank you
because of you, I wrote to her.
And so that, that's, those arethe things that you remember
that, you made a difference insome mom's life.
(17:23):
My son I have not yet let himforget that he's never wrote to
me.
He's on his third deploymentright now, so, so I'm still
living, even though I'm retiredfrom the military, I'm still
very much involved as a militarymom.
But I worked out and physicalfitness and eight hours of sleep
a night.
I truly believe those are thingsthat leaders need to role model
(17:46):
for others, and I know I neededit for myself.
So, and I had a dog, have a dog,had one then.
And so, pets and physicalfitness.
Eating right, sleeping, allthose things that we know that
we need to do really are whathelp me handle the stress.
Charles Schelle (18:04):
Yeah, it's all about putting yourself first and
when you have everyone pullingfor your time, right?
Yes.
Well, as you were talking,looking over soldiers and
yourself and your son.
You still had to get to work andshape policies and practices
within the military.
How did your leadership helpshape these, policies,
(18:27):
especially regarding, healthcareand how, healthcare was afforded
to these soldiers, whether it'shere or in combat.
Peggy Wilmonth (18:35):
Well, interestingly enough, I had the
privilege after I finished mycommand in 2008, I applied for
the.
Johnson Health PolicyFellowship, and I was fortunate
enough to be selected to be aRobert Wood Johnson Foundation
Health Policy Fellow, 2009 to2010.
So I learned about big healthpolicy and how it's made by that
(18:59):
phenomenal experience.
It was truly an honor to be aRDFJ Foundation Health Policy
Fellow and to be there when wepassed the Affordable Care Act
and to watch how that was thenturned into regulations.
And then my second one starassignment was as the assistant
for mobilization and readiness.
In the office of the AssistantSecretary of Defense for Health
(19:22):
Affairs, where we actually madehealth policy for the entire
force.
And so those experiences reallyhelped hone my ability to
understand policy, to look atpolicy, to do policy analysis,
and to think about policy fromnot just the strategic pieces,
(19:44):
but also look at it from thetactical level and in, in, in
the weeds and how does it reallyget implemented.
So those experiences were reallyinformative.
And then as a two star, I didpolicy as the Deputy Surgeon
General for the Army Reserve,and I had a second stint on the
Army Reserve Forces PolicyCommittee.
(20:05):
So I worked in policy in thatspace as well.
Dana Rampolla (20:09):
And then Peggy, you were also involved in
research, right?
That research, from myunderstanding, played a pivotal
role in the deployment of atrisk soldiers, could you give us
some insights into the specificchallenges that the soldiers
faced and what your researchaimed to, to address?
Peggy Wilmonth (20:27):
First off, I had read an article written by a
reserve component physiciansaying that when reservists were
deployed into theater, in war,that they were less prepared to
handle war on a daily basis thanactive component because the
active component does war allthe time or does military all
the time.
(20:47):
Well, as a reservist, I wasinsulted because I felt
everyone, no one wants to go towar.
I mean, we have a strongmilitary to try to preserve the
peace.
No one wants to go to war, butwe train for it.
We prepare for it.
And so I got my team inside OSDHealth Affairs.
We started looking at the dataand did a data analysis about
(21:09):
who was most likely to be sentout of theater for psychiatric
mental health problems.
And we found it wasn't thereservist at all.
It was younger individuals,younger women primarily, who
might've left theater.
Young children at home, and theywere like 20 to 24 year old
women with young kids who werereally struggling with what it
(21:31):
meant to be a parent and be asoldier and be deployed.
And so we as we looked at thosedata, we also looked at the
number, the data around.
the military in the period priorto the surge in Iraq, that
General Petraeus hadimplemented.
(21:51):
That was successful.
But in order to have enoughservicemen and women to man the
force, they allowed individualsto move.
Some individuals with some preexisting mental health
challenges to be assessed in themilitary.
And so in looking at those datawe were able to get CENTCOM
deployment policy modified.
(22:14):
to try to reduce the harm andrisk of sending those with known
mental health diagnoses intotheater.
And I don't know where thosepolicies stand today.
They've just released I think Iheard mod 17 to the CENTCOM
deployment policy.
So I don't know how that haschanged in the intervening
years, but but for that periodof time so about 2012 13, after
(22:38):
the surge, they were able tomake some modifications I'm
really proud that we were ableto make a difference and
hopefully some individuals havebetter experiences or less
traumatic experiences.
Because of that.
Charles Schelle (22:49):
Following up on those comments, there are a lot
of conflicts going on around theworld right now, and we're on
the edges of some supporting,whether that's Ukraine or the
Middle East, or things that areheating up in the Pacific, and
in regards to health of soldiersand all, is there anything maybe
(23:09):
the American people should takemore time to pay attention to or
keep their eyes on as far aswhether it's policy or things
that soldiers need as far astheir health?
Peggy Wilmonth (23:21):
Well, I would let me go back a little further
and talk in a bigger sense aboutthe state of our youth today.
We all know that our adolescentshave a huge mental health
challenge.
COVID was very stressful formany and social media in some
cases is detrimental to theemotional health of young men
(23:42):
and young women.
And life is very stressful foreveryone.
We also have a huge issue in ouryouth of obesity.
75 percent of America'sadolescents today do not meet
the criteria to join ourmilitary.
And part of that is due toobesity.
Part of it is due to felonyconvictions.
(24:02):
Part of it is due to drug use.
And part of it is due to pooreducation.
So, there, there's a lot ofissues that the American public
should be concerned with.
Not only in obesity in our youthwith type 2 diabetes growing in
young children and teens obesityin our adults is a huge problem.
(24:24):
Economically, it's going tobreak our healthcare system from
the cost of care of thesecomplex chronic illnesses and
that is, impacts our ability torecruit qualified individuals
into the military.
We're at 50 years into the allvolunteer force, and we can't
man that force because we haveso few who, even if they want to
(24:47):
serve, have problems withserving.
They don't meet the standards.
And I know the military has beendoing a review of our accessions
policy, and they are now goingto allow Waivers for individuals
with 51 new conditions to bewaived in to serve in the
military.
And we don't know what the longterm effect of that is going to
(25:09):
have on the health and wellbeing of those who serve, who
are allowed to serve with theseconditions and what that's going
to be at the other end in termsof their own health or care that
we as the American people owethem for volunteering to serve.
Dana Rampolla (25:24):
That's really scary.
Not anything I've ever eventhought about.
It's sad to say,
Peggy Wilmonth (25:29):
Well, only 1 percent of Americans volunteer
to serve in our military today.
So 99 percent have no awarenessor understanding of, or, it's
not in the aperture at all to,to think about that.
And so, while the all builtvolunteer force is good in that
we don't, we aren't facing adraft.
It means that fewer and fewerknow what it means to serve or
(25:52):
know what the cost of servingare.
And then the other issue that wecould come up to play with, if
we don't have enough tovolunteer to serve, does that
mean we have to restart thedraft?
And then right now women are notpart of that picture.
And what does that mean?
So I think those are some bigmacro policy questions we're
(26:15):
going to face as a country goingforward.
Charles Schelle (26:17):
Yeah, thank you for bringing those up,
especially now with a new era ofAmerican politics entering and
what's going on abroad.
It's, you're right.
It's very important to payattention to.
Peggy Wilmonth (26:28):
Well, I will tell you, I was in, in the
Balkans this summer in, in amilitary cause, a military role
and speaking to ministers ofdefense and leaders of their
military, and they are veryanxious because if we pull out
of NATO, they know what's goingto happen and who's going to
come across and into theirborders.
So it's very tense time overthere.
Charles Schelle (26:48):
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Dana Rampolla (26:51):
Peggy, You've dabbled a little bit with
inclusivity by talking aboutwomen and what was the impact of
your work in expandinginclusiveness within the
Department of Defense?
Specifically, how's your policyleadership influence that
military culture andopportunities for maybe other
diverse groups within theorganization?
Peggy Wilmonth (27:13):
Well, interestingly enough, one of the
last assignments I had was whenSecretary Carlson worked and
brought leaders from all themilitary departments together to
expand the ability oftransgendered individuals to
serve openly in our military.
And I was assigned that task tobe the Army Surgeon General's
(27:35):
representative on that taskforce.
So my last six months inuniform, I was in weekly
meetings with other leaders fromthe Department of Defense to
craft and draft the policy toallow transgendered individuals
to serve openly in our military.
And I truly believe that anyAmerican who wants to serve
(27:56):
ought to be able to serve in ourmilitary.
And regardless of genderorientation I, I, if you want to
serve, we ought to make it, finda way for you to serve.
Again, since so few Americansare propense to serve, who are
we to tell someone that theyshouldn't be able to serve
because they may be gay or betransgendered?
(28:18):
And so that was a reallyimportant part of my last six
months of work, of which I'mvery proud.
I learned a lot.
And interestingly enough, mydoctoral work at Penn was
looking at the impact of cancerand cancer treatments on
intimacy and sexuality.
So while a lot of what we wrotein the Department of Defense for
(28:41):
transgendered individuals wasaround personnel policy, not
health care policy, I felt thatI was at least Potentially more
open and understanding thanothers say from the Marine Corps
might be.
When we began to approach thatwork, it the experience of
(29:02):
working with those individualson that committee was truly hard
work, but it, we all came at itfrom working to be as
nonjudgmental and as unbiased aswe possibly could, and I believe
we crafted a very solid policyfor that that work for those
(29:22):
individuals to serve.
Charles Schelle (29:24):
And that dovetails in to what I was about
to ask about psychosocialoncology and your contributions.
Can you explain to people whatpsychosocial oncology is and
what motivated you to focus onthat area?
Peggy Wilmonth (29:39):
Well, turn back to the time when I was a head
and neck cancer nurse and I wasworking with some of my patients
at the University of Marylandhospital.
And I had one woman who had ahalf of her jaw removed and half
of her tongue.
And that was in the days beforepeg tubes that fed people
through their stomach.
So she had a tube coming out ofher nose to eat with and her
(30:03):
first name have to be Peggy.
And she threw a temper tantrumone morning.
I look horrible.
I can't kiss my husband.
He won't come near me.
This cancer has robbed me of myrelationship.
And I had Even to go backfurther, in my senior year at
Maryland, we had a choice of twoelectives, death ed or sex ed.
(30:26):
I took the sex ed, I couldn'timagine talking about death for
a semester.
So I took the human sexualitycourse with Susan Hetherington.
And so I felt like when Peggyhad, said this like, Oh, my God,
I took this course.
I was supposed to be comfortablewith, and at least aware of the
impact of health issues,diagnoses on the human being.
(30:52):
And I completely missed it.
So I felt incredibly guilty thatI had not considered this as
part of it.
My role as a nurse that Icompletely ignored the impact of
her cancer and her cancertreatments for just figuring
cancer surgery on her as a womanand then on her intimate
(31:15):
relationships.
And so I owe it to my patientsfor taking the shutters off my
eyes.
And so I started talking to moreand more of our head and neck
cancer patients.
And I had another gentleman whowe'd even made home visits to
because he was dehydrated.
And, found out that I was veryprivileged.
I knew how to put a blendertogether out of a box and he
(31:37):
didn't.
So it was again my white AngloSaxon upper middle class
bringing that I didn't know thatpatients would go home and not
know how to assemble a piece ofequipment that they'd been using
in the hospital, but we had nottaught them how to put it
together.
So those issues and then meetinghim in the outpatient clinic and
(31:58):
talking about the fact thatsince he'd had his head and neck
cancer surgery.
He was no longer able to haveerections.
Well, no one had talked to himabout his alcoholism and how
alcohol and then gettingdebilitated could affect his
performance.
And so again, it was another oneof those moments, I'm crying,
(32:18):
he's crying.
And I really felt that I hadfailed again in not pulling
together All my knowledge to tryto provide high quality care to
these individuals.
So that's, I started my master'sprogram, and I started asking
our patients about body imageand sexuality.
And I was talking to one of oursurgeons one time, and he said,
(32:41):
So Peggy, these people are allover 60.
Why are you talking to them?
Y'all know once you're 60,you're not interested in sex
anymore.
And I was a smart aleck, 25 yearold, and I looked at him, and I
said, So on your 60th birthday,are you going to tell your wife
that's it, no more separatebedrooms?
And He got walked away from me.
But I felt again ageism.
(33:01):
He was putting his values on ourpatients.
And so that's where I gotstarted looking at the impact of
emotions and familyrelationships and cancer
treatments.
On patients with cancer.
And so I did my master's thesislooking at that, wrote my first
paper with my master's withSusan Hetherington about that,
(33:23):
and then did doctoral work on itat Penn.
And, but then I got waylaid intomilitary health policy later in
my life, but I'm still verypassionate because I really feel
sometimes in, in healthcaretoday, we're so busy with the
checkoff on the computer.
And we forget about those kindsof things and just sitting at
the side of the bed, not at thefoot of the bed, not standing at
(33:45):
the foot of the bed, but sittingFace to face, eyeball to
eyeball, and just saying, howare you doing, can make a huge
world of difference and thenopen up areas where we as nurses
can make referrals and help makepatients lives better, which is
why we're all in nursing tobegin with.
Charles Schelle (34:02):
Do you feel like that approach is beginning
to show itself in hospital roomsor do you think that we have a
ways to go for people to embracethat philosophy?
Peggy Wilmonth (34:12):
I still think we have a ways to go.
I really do.
Again, we're so technologicallyoriented and fast paced and
patients are in and out so, soquickly in hospitals that some
of that care has to take placeelsewhere, whether it's
outpatient or follow upphysician visits.
I know when I was living inKansas, finishing my doctoral
(34:35):
degree and teaching communityhealth, I really found that was
the optimal way to make adifference when my students and
I would go into people's homes.
And having a chance to engagewith them, seeing where they
lived, meeting them where theywere, not in a hospital, which
is where we live.
That's our home.
(34:55):
It's our place.
Medical professionals own it.
It's the home and the communitywhere we really can make a
difference.
Dana Rampolla (35:02):
Did you feel like part of that was because you had
more time with them or meet themin their place?
Peggy Wilmonth (35:08):
I think part of it was also my maturation as a
nurse, Benner wrote about fromnovice to expert.
And I truly think that as we goacross our full length of
career, we move from novice toexpert.
So once you get past being anovice and know how to do the
technical things, then you canbegin to expand and incorporate
other kinds of thinking and careinto your work.
Dana Rampolla (35:29):
Well, Peggy, you've certainly had an
accomplished career, both innursing and military.
What advice would you offer newnurses or health care
professionals, especially ifthey're interested in going
outside of the box?
They might be looking for aleadership or a policy
opportunity.
Peggy Wilmonth (35:47):
First off, your career is a marathon, not a
sprint, so you don't have to doeverything in 5 or 10 years.
I would say be willing to risk.
Don't let others put you in abox.
My family thought I should be inthe white picket fence, and I
still had the letter from my dadwhen I was joining the army,
you're a wife and a mother, yourplace is at home.
(36:08):
Don't join the army.
I didn't listen.
But because of, because I didn'tlisten, because I didn't allow
myself to be put in that box,I've had all these wonderful
other experiences to allow me toexpand and grow.
This last year I was a NationalAcademy of Medicine
Distinguished Nurse Scholar inResidence funded by the ANA and
(36:28):
the American Academy of Nursingand the American Nurses
Foundation.
I wouldn't have had thatexperience.
I would have been a healthpolicy fellow if I hadn't done
some of these other kinds ofgrowth opportunities and gone
outside of straight clinicalnursing.
And I was just elected to be the84th president of what we now
call the Reserve Organization ofAmerica.
(36:49):
It's an 102 year oldorganization that advocates for
all serving reservists.
It was the Reserve OfficersAssociation, started by General
Pershing after World War I.
I'm only the third woman to bepresident of this organization.
So again, it's, you have to findyour own path and you have to be
(37:10):
willing to risk.
And to be true to yourself andto look at yourself in the
mirror and know that you'refollowing your own path and not
the path that others think youshould be following.
Dana Rampolla (37:26):
I hope your dad changed his opinion.
Peggy Wilmonth (37:28):
I don't know.
I was a dean for, when I becamea dean at Georgia State, he
goes, I'm really proud you make,you've made general, but being a
dean is really awesome.
So I don't know that he ever gotpast again, he was born when
women, you know, were And, andafter, and after World War II,
women were told to take offtheir Rosie the River clothes
(37:49):
and put the pearls on and goback in the kitchen and, God, I
hope we're not going back there.
But but, so that's what hisframe of reference was.
And um, I don't know why Istepped out of the box like I
did, but I had some phenomenalfemale role models and some men
that opened doors for me when Ididn't necessarily think about
(38:12):
In fact I'll share this onestory.
I was in my battalion command.
I had one year left in commandand a general officer named
General Larry Neitner called meand he goes, well, Colonel
Wilmoth, I'm the new commandinggeneral of the 81st RSC and RSG.
And I would really like you tobe my chief of staff.
And I'm like, well, sir, I'mstill, I'm About a year in
(38:34):
command, blah, blah, blah.
He called me several times, andfinally it dawned on me, someone
was opening a door for me, sawsomething in me I didn't see in
myself.
And thank God, I woke up, and Iwalked through that door because
I left the army medical worldbehind for a period of time and
(38:54):
moved outside of the armymedical arena into the bigger
army and learned about how therest of the army ran.
Had I not done that, had he notoffered that and been so patient
with me, I would not have becomea one star general.
So I think we also have to beaware that sometimes people
from.
(39:15):
Who we might not expect come tous and offer us opportunities,
and we need to step through thatdoor or that window.
It will close.
It'll never open again.
I think too many times nursessell ourselves short, and we
need to own our own power andour own value as nurses.
Dana Rampolla (39:34):
You certainly have had a very successful
career.
And if you were to pick, you'venamed a lot of different things
you've been involved with theproudest moment.
Can you pick one thing thatreally stood out?
Peggy Wilmonth (39:47):
I really can't, because to me it's a
kaleidoscope of things that havekind of come together and
molded.
I think sometimes the fact thatthere were some roadblocks put
in front of me to prevent mefrom being a one star, and then
roadblocks that others put infront of me from becoming a two
star.
(40:07):
And they were such that mostpeople would have just thrown in
the towel and retired as a onestar.
And I forced the system to work.
And the fact that the systemworked when I had the tenacity
and went through what I wentthrough to make the system work
validated for me the importanceof knowing your value and owning
(40:29):
your power and believing inyourself so that you can force
the system to work.
And in my case, I was fortunatethat I was became a two star
general.
But the other things that makeme most proud have been my
students and the students thatI've worked with who have gone
on to achieve in their ownright.
(40:50):
And again, as with anyone wholooks back, it's those that
you've helped along the way thatreally validates the hard work
that you do.
Dana Rampolla (40:59):
True.
And what would you hope to leaveas a legacy for future
generations?
Is it that giving them theopportunity?
Peggy Wilmonth (41:08):
The opportunity and I would love for more
nurses.
to own the value of what we asnurses do and don't allow
someone to say, or you to evensay, I'm just a nurse.
Because that puts us all down.
I believe nursing is a fabulousprofession that sometimes we box
(41:31):
ourselves in.
We speak to our own choir.
We do not get out of our ownway.
We need to be outside of nursingin many cases.
Talking about the values that wehold in leading outside of
nursing, if we truly want tomake a change in our profession.
And so that's what I feel themilitary has allowed me to do,
is to speak outside of my siloof nursing, and more of us need
(41:55):
to do that.
Charles Schelle (41:56):
You've absolutely broken glass ceilings
for nurses and women inleadership.
And we're recording this a fewdays ahead of Veterans Day.
So thank you for your service.
Thank you for everything you'vedone and keeping in touch and
active with the University ofMaryland, Baltimore and the
School of Nursing, even asyou're with another institution.
(42:17):
And so, Peggy thank you so muchfor coming on to the UMB Pulse.
Peggy Wilmonth (42:23):
Well, thank you so much for having me.
Happy Veterans Day to all theveterans who are listening and
to their families.
Thank you.
Jena Frick (42:34):
The UMB Pulse with Charles Schelle and Dana
Rampolla is a UMB Office ofCommunications and Public
Affairs production, edited byCharles Schelle marketing by
Dana Rampolla.
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