April 28, 2025 • 36 mins
Overthinking kills creativity, and it happens faster than you realize.
In this episode, we unpack how fear often disguises itself as "preparation" and why it smothers your best ideas before they have a chance to grow.
You will learn five simple ways to catch overthinking early, trust your creative spark, and take action before fear takes over.
If you have ever gotten stuck in research, comparison, or second-guessing before you even start, this episode is for you.
Get ready to move forward, trust the delight, and create with courage. Your magic, and the world, are waiting.
Thanks for listening to The UnBound Creative!
If today’s episode resonated with you, share it with a friend or leave us a review, it helps more creatives discover the show.
💌 Connect with us on Instagram:
@valeriemckeehan & @thatmakguy (that’s Mak with a K!)
Keep creating bravely. We’re so glad you’re here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Valerie (00:07):
welcome back to the unbound creative podcast.
We are so excited to be backwith you.
I'm valerie I'm mac and here webelieve that you have magic
within you.
Why are we doing this?
Why are we talking about thesethings and creativity?
It is because we believe thatyou have magic within you.
(00:31):
That is your own individualbrand of magic and when you
unlock it, when you take thatout of the box, that maybe and
there are all different kinds ofboxes we can put our own selves
in boxes, we can have boxesthat other people have put on us
or ways that we believe we needto stay in the box, but when we
(00:53):
can open that out and liveunbound, we believe it will
change your life and also changethe world.
Creativity changes the worldand we need the magic that you
offer.
Mak (01:05):
And you know, so often people have forgotten about this
part of themselves or they putit away 10 years ago, 15 years
ago, 50 years ago.
And now you are living everyday in a way that doesn't feel
lit up or magical, or you'rejust kind of in the mundane
(01:26):
routine.
The should territory I should bedoing all of and, and so you're
left going well, what is there?
What is there for me?
What is you know?
You just feel like something ismissing and you can't quite put
your finger on it.
We believe that this is theanswer for every single human
(01:46):
being is reconnecting with thatinner, magical part of yourself.
Valerie (01:50):
What often stops us?
Well, there are many things,but one of the big things that
stops us from moving forward,when we start to tap into that
part of us and we're feelingthat spark and that lit up and
the thing we're going to talkabout, that stops so much of us,
is overthinking.
(02:11):
And tell us, dm us, if youexperience this I think it's
everybody.
Where we have a spark, thathappens or we have an idea,
something just kind of lands inyour brain in this way that you
can't even explain it.
You just are like, oh, that wasan interesting passing thought,
(02:34):
I should maybe explore this.
Or we have that idea that comesto us that seems like it was
out of nowhere, that little bitof inspiration that's often a
whisper, by the way.
And then we get really excited.
And then what happens?
We do research.
We're like, ok, well, I can'tjust start, let me figure this
(02:58):
out.
And we go into our left brainand we're like let's logic this
out and figure this out.
Mak (03:04):
And a lot of times that research is done without doing
physical research.
You sit there and, in your mind, within an instant of having a
great idea or something thatfeels good, you immediately come
up with 15 reasons why it won'twork.
Or it will be too hard, or youdon't have the skills, or you
don't have the connections, oryou don't have the finances to
(03:24):
do it.
You're puncturing holes in thisbeautiful idea 10 seconds after
it's been born.
Valerie (03:31):
That is so true.
Yeah, the outward research.
But then internally, how we'rejust automatically like oh yeah,
nope, that won't work for allof these reasons and we can
always come up with reasons whythings won't work- and I was
just with a friend the other daywho said oh yeah, I'm a, I'm a
hole puncher.
Mak (03:51):
They actually call themselves a hole puncher.
And I said what's a holepuncher?
Well, when someone has a reallygreat idea, they usually don't
come to me because I'm the onewho sits there and goes well,
here are all the reasons why itwon't work.
And they were like proud ofthis and I was like I feel bad
for you because that's that'sgoing to keep you from ever
(04:11):
doing anything big and bold andbeautiful.
Valerie (04:15):
And then there is the actual research.
So if you have a really goodidea maybe a business you want
to start, or maybe art that youwant to start making, or you had
want to start making, or youhad an idea for something what
is our first inclination?
We go let me see what everybodyelse is doing.
So then you go on instagram oryou go online and you have this
beautiful idea.
(04:36):
And then you see all of thesepeople who are doing it, and
they're doing it a million timesbetter that you could ever do
it.
That's what you tell yourself.
That's not what's true, but youare at the very, very beginning
.
You have done nothing at thisstage other than have the idea.
So, of course, when you look atother people who are doing it,
(04:57):
it's going to feel like, oh mygoodness, they're doing it so
much better than me becauseyou're not.
You're not doing it.
It's at the very beginning.
Of course, they are fartheralong.
Mak (05:07):
And I am, I am.
I am as bad at this as anybodyelse, because I have millions of
ideas and, of course, the firstthing I do is I go well, does
somebody have this handle onInstagram?
Is somebody doing this?
And somebody, and I go and Isee and I immediately get
defeated.
I go oh wow, they're doing sucha good job.
I can never compete with that.
They already have it figuredout, they already have all the
(05:30):
customers.
They're five years ahead of me.
Guess what?
The truth is?
You, you both can exist.
There could be 15 people withthe same idea, and all those
people can exist.
That's why Lowe's and HomeDepot are across the street from
each other and Ace is down theroad.
It all works.
They're all doing the samething, but in their own way, and
(05:51):
that's your story too.
So that comparison thing that'salso one of the big tricky ones
.
Valerie (05:57):
We're never saying anything, that we ourselves are
not working through, employingand telling ourselves.
But it is, it's so true, thatfeeling where you were lit up,
you had the spark, you're readyto go, and then it's just like
someone lets the air out of theballoon once we get into these
spirals of overthinking.
(06:19):
And what is overthinking?
We all do it, but let's justcall a spade a spade.
Overthinking is rooted in fear.
It is fear masquerading asbeing prepared.
So we think we have to do allthese things and we're just
being prepared, but really whatit is is fear telling us that we
(06:42):
have to have this type of overpreparation.
Mak (06:45):
It's the hole puncher.
The hole puncher is just afraid.
And that's what we do.
We say, ok, well, before I canmove anything forward, I have to
do all of these things.
I got to get all my ducks in arow, I got to have everything
perfect and then I can take thefirst step.
Listen, no great company thatwas ever built, no great
(07:07):
television show that was evermade, movie that was made, song
that was written or whatever,started from someone having all
the things prepared and thentook the first step.
All of those things, all thethings we love, came from a
single thought, that somebodyacted on with excitement and
motivation in the moment andsaid I'll figure it out, I just
(07:29):
got to move on it.
Valerie (07:30):
You know what To think about that.
I mean any billion dollar ideathat has ever existed.
Where did that come from?
It came from a singular thought.
It came from somebody'sindividual spark saying I wonder
what would happen if?
And then, moving from there,and even when a plan is laid out
(07:51):
so-called perfectly, how oftenin your life do things go to
plan, even in small ways, like,isn't it often, when you are
holding on so tightly to howsomething must go, you end up
being miserable?
I think about family functionsor events, and, yes, we want
(08:13):
everything to be just so and weplan it all out, but oftentimes
things do not go to plan and so,if we are so rigid in that, we
end up having a bad time.
But often it's the times thatwere the spontaneous things just
even in our lives the vacations, the restaurant that was closed
so that you went somewhere downthe street and then you ended
(08:35):
up having this great day thoseare the memories that we often
talk about.
Mak (08:40):
I'm reminded of the time when you were trying to create
the perfect fall day.
Valerie (08:47):
Oh, my goodness With our daughter, vienna.
Mak (08:49):
This was before Charlie was born and you had all this
vision and you had us all in oursweaters and it was 80 degrees
outside in October and we wentto the pumpkin patch and Vienna
was hot and I was hot and shewas grumpy and hungry and
nothing was going right and youand I ended up fighting and
(09:10):
everybody was mad and it wasawful and it was all because you
had this vision of thisbeautiful, crisp day and
everybody was doing pumpkins andcider.
Oh, it was so lovely.
And what I honestly think wasgoing on in that moment, you
were trying to recreate whathappened earlier, on its own,
spontaneously, the year before,because the year before we had
(09:33):
this incredible experience atthe pumpkin patch and it was so
much fun and it wasquintessential fall.
And I think you tried torecreate it the next year and it
just didn't work.
Valerie (09:42):
It's all it's, it's all the expectations of it and
going in with like it has to gothis way.
Mak (09:48):
And.
Valerie (09:48):
I want.
I had to get a certain picturethat I wanted, but you know
what's funny about that, weended up what?
A week or so later,spontaneously finding a new farm
that we had never heard of andwe were just like, oh okay,
let's just go check it out.
And we ended up having thismost beautiful afternoon at a
place that we weren't evenexpecting to stop at.
(10:10):
We didn't even know it wasthere.
Mak (10:11):
It was 10 times better, frankly, yeah we really loved it
.
Valerie (10:14):
The crowds were so much less.
We had this amazing experience.
So you can probably think oftimes in your life that it was
that way, and when you hold onso tightly to the plan, it
blinds you to seeing even whatis out there.
But in creative situations,again, the fear is masquerading
(10:34):
as being prepared and we thinkthat we have to have all of the
ducks in the row.
But even when you do, sometimesthat can even be a detriment at
times.
So the other thing that we do,with the fear masquerading as
being prepared, is that we'reseeking validation over trusting
ourselves.
This is another part of theoverthinking, because we're
(10:57):
trying to think about well,everybody else is doing it this
way and we want to almostinsulate ourselves to know that
we are doing it right andseeking that validation.
Here's what we tend to not trustis that spark, that delight
that you felt, that rush of joy,that rush of aliveness.
(11:19):
When you have that come in,you're like, oh, I would love to
do that, that sounds so muchfun and you're on this high of
inspiration and energy from theidea.
Why don't we trust thatinspiration and energy from the
idea?
Why don't we trust that?
Because then we sink ourselvesdown into okay, well, let me
overthink this to death and Ineed to be the hole puncher and
(11:41):
find all of the other peopledoing it, because I'm trying to
insulate myself and protectmyself.
Why don't we trust the delightand the joy?
And what we want to tell you isthat's the part you get to
trust.
You get to lean into that andsink your teeth into why that
(12:02):
was so amazing.
Mak (12:04):
One of my very first businesses that really worked
was an online radio company, andit was totally by mistake, like
I didn't expect it to do whatit did, and it went on to be
massively huge, one of thelargest actually in history.
And do you know what that was?
If I had started that withresearch and following all the
(12:29):
rules of radio and listening toeverything that every person
that I'd ever worked with inradio said this works, this
doesn't work, you can't do this,you can't do this, you can't do
this, you can do this, youcan't do this, it never would
have happened.
But what I did is I set out tocreate literally a radio station
that I wanted to listen to.
(12:50):
It was for me, it was whatexcited me.
I did everything about thatradio station.
That was me and I loved everysecond of it.
I loved creating it, I lovedlistening to it, I loved
programming it, I loved being onthe air on it and boom, it took
off like wildfire, like nothingI had ever experienced in my
(13:13):
life.
I wasn't focused or thinkingabout money.
I wasn't thinking aboutanything other than what lights
me up, what makes me feel good,and that is what works.
It's like you lean into thatcreative moment.
You lean into that thing thatis drawing you in and you like
you can't do anything else.
But then lean into that thingthat is drawing you in and you
like you can't do anything else.
But then lean into that andwhen you get to that place, then
(13:37):
you don't poke the holesanymore.
And that's the goal is, whenyou doing it from the heart, the
holes don't matter, because youwill actually figure out ways
to plug the holes or go aroundthe holes or keep the holes from
from appearing.
To begin with, and most of thetime the holes are things that
people invented anyway.
That aren't real or true.
They're just things that weattach to what we're doing in
(14:00):
fear of success.
Valerie (14:02):
Essentially, yeah, I don't feel like we're taught
that it's okay to trust thefeelings of fun and play and
delight.
That almost seems like thechildish part that we hear okay,
well, it's time to grow up now.
It's time to get serious.
Mak (14:19):
You're an adult.
Valerie (14:20):
You're in the real world now.
This has to be hard, but yetthe things that lit us up as
children, the things that gaveus delight and play and fun, we
are still those people and thatis that one-way ticket to our
magic when we tap into thoseparts.
But yet we seem to not trustthose things.
(14:41):
When we get that kind ofexcited, giddy butterflies in
the stomach, feeling we almostseek out the validation of that
instead of just letting thatsink in and letting ourselves
flow into that when we're kids.
Mak (14:56):
That's the truest forms of who we are like before the world
gets to us right and, as adults, when we start to feel like a
kid, we shut ourselves down wethink that's somehow bad.
Valerie (15:07):
Right, this is so juvenile.
Mak (15:09):
Are you telling me that when will ferrell was filming
elf, that he didn't feel likewhat kid wouldn't want to?
To have done that?
Been that character you?
He was tapping into this joythat that's within him when he
was filming that and letting itout.
And now we love it.
And why do we love it?
(15:29):
Because it reminds us of how wefelt when we were kids.
And that's the thing, andthat's what you've got to watch.
The overthinking comes in whenyou say, oh no, this is juvenile
.
I'm an adult.
I am not allowed to have fun orbe full of joy from something
that makes me feel like a kid.
Valerie (15:48):
All right, we're going to get super practical with you
on this episode, because we havefive ways that you can
interrupt this overthinkingpattern and then actually move
forward with these sparksinstead of smothering them down,
instead of coming up with amillion and one ways why it
won't work, why everybody'sdoing it better.
(16:09):
We want to help you stop andinterrupt this pattern.
So the first thing is notice,and that's really the first
thing for any change that youwant to make in your life.
It's not about, you know,shoving something aside or
beating something down or I gotto change, and why am I like
(16:31):
this and beating yourself up?
No, no, no.
First step is always to notice.
Mak (16:39):
Just be aware, that's it.
When the thought starts to comein, be aware of it and then
gently take a breath, pause andsay okay, I recognize the
thought, I'm not going to be madat myself for it, let it go and
move on gently.
Valerie (16:55):
And when we can understand because we're
becoming more conscious when wecan understand that so much of
it is fear talking so much of itis just we're trying to the
primal part of us, trying tokeep us safe from creativity
which seems inherently scary toit.
When you start to recognize thatyou will not let your
(17:17):
overthinking kind of get awaywith those sneaky ways of being,
and you'll start to be able totalk to yourself more gently
when you notice it.
So if you find yourself goingdown a rabbit hole on Instagram
and you're researching all ofthese things or you're looking
at other people's artwork goingI could never do it, why should
I even pick up the brush?
Because it's never going tolook like this and you can start
(17:39):
to sense and just notice whatyou're doing.
And then there's a part of youthat can look at that as an
onlooker and say, oh, this isfear, onlooker.
And say, oh, this is fear, I'mtrying to protect myself.
I was all giddy about this.
And now this is just myfamiliar pattern stepping in and
(18:06):
instead of just letting yoursubconscious take over and do
that, you're just noticing itand becoming aware when you do
it.
Mak (18:10):
I did this exact thing this morning.
We were in the car.
I had this, really what Ithought was a brilliant flash of
an idea for a business, and Ieven had I said to you I was
like text me this phrase and soI could make a note about it.
Valerie (18:22):
I was wondering what was that?
Mak (18:25):
I didn't even.
I haven't even told you whatthe idea is yet, but what
happened was the next fiveminutes.
All I did was come up with allthe reasons.
Okay, it's fine.
Now think about what happens ifit would work.
Think about all the cool thingsthat you could do with this.
It's really easy to do.
Valerie (18:46):
So if you're going into an overthinking spiral, just
notice it, become aware.
Step two take one tiny,imperfect action.
So, before the mind spirals out, we're going to just take one
small step.
(19:07):
So maybe that means taking outyour phone and doing a voice
memo.
Just get it out there.
Or maybe open up your journaland really just get it all out.
Get the idea out, brainstorm itout, write the first paragraph.
If you have an idea for a bookmaybe you want to write a
(19:28):
children's book Maybe you justtake out a Google Doc and start
making an outline Just take thatone step to move you forward.
Mak (19:36):
It really depends on how you process the best.
If you are an internalprocessor, I would recommend
doing the journaling, becausethat really helps you get it and
it doesn't have to be like youhave you.
You literally start.
You can just get all of yourideas out on paper.
If you're an external processor, do the voice note, send
yourself a voxer and just talkfor five or six minutes and get
(19:59):
all of your ideas out before thehole puncher steps in.
That's the key.
Valerie (20:05):
That's going to be the new thing now, I know.
Mak (20:07):
I'm going to have to thank this person for calling
themselves but.
But that's going to be.
The key is, do it before youstart punching holes in it.
When you have that moment ofspark and inspiration, that's
when you want to just get thatout as quickly as you can.
Valerie (20:19):
Yep, you want to move before your brain has time to
build a case against you.
Just move, do something, takeone piece of tiny action and the
thing is, clarity is built inthe doing.
We don't have it all figuredout, and that's the other thing
that we don't even.
I don't even have this on thelist.
(20:40):
But when we think then aboutthe end game and we think like,
okay, say it was a children'sbook, you had this spark in my
idea.
What we'll tend to do then isfast forward to the end and it
seems so daunting, like it'sthis huge masterpiece, and
you're like, well, I would haveto talk to these people and how
(21:00):
would I even get published?
And then what is the story?
And if I do this, and how wouldI get the printing done, and
would it go on Amazon and all ofa sudden you had the idea, and
then you're thinking aboutthings that would happen way,
way, way, way, way down the line.
And then it debilitates youbecause it's this huge chunk and
I hate this phrase.
I can't even believe that I'musing this as the example but
(21:21):
how do you eat an elephant?
One bite at a time?
That's what we need to remember.
Get into that first messy,imperfect action.
Remind yourself that this ishow it's built.
Mak (21:37):
You're going to figure out Amazon later down the road.
It's funny because in ourcurrent group coaching program
it's funny because in ourcurrent group coaching program,
you know, we're helping artistslearn how to sell, but from a
lit up and inspired place andnot all the creepy things.
And it's so funny because oneof the one of the first
questions we got when, when wekind of opened up the floor, was
it was like well, how do I dealwith, how do I deal with
(21:59):
copyright, how do I deal withtaxes, how do I deal with?
And I was like OK, those areall legitimate questions and I
love that your mind is there.
But have you sold anything?
And he says, well, no, Ihaven't sold anything yet.
I've only sold a few things.
Okay, great, let's focus on thefun of creating and selling,
because Uncle Sam's not comingafter you yet.
(22:21):
You don't have to worry aboutcopyright yet, we will get.
You will get there.
It's just take one inspiredstep after the other.
So if you do drown yourself inall of these thoughts, that's
one way that you will keepyourself stuck.
Valerie (22:35):
And this is part of the fear masquerading as being
prepared, which is so normal.
We this is part of let'snormalize just how we are as
humans.
It is so natural then to wantto skip 10 steps ahead.
We want to know what's going tohappen, we want to have that
figured out, and that is sonormal.
But often that is going todebilitate us, that's going to
(22:58):
keep us out of the moment,that's going to take us straight
out of the delight that we felt.
And that is point three Trustthe feeling of delight, that
initial excitement that you felt, that little jolt, that like
tingly feeling, the butterfliesin the stomach where you're just
like.
That is your creative compass,that is a true version of you,
(23:27):
that is your magic comingthrough.
We're not taught to trust thatand we are telling you you get
to trust that feeling.
Mak (23:37):
And that feeling is a good feeling.
It's a feeling of joy, it's afeeling of purpose, and Gay
Hendricks would say that withoutpractice, you would immediately
shift into something that woulddestroy that feeling, because
we as humans have been taughtthat we can't feel good for long
periods of time.
Our actual normal state offeeling is actually bad, and
(24:00):
good feelings are only allowedto happen in mere moments.
So what you want to do whenthat happens and you start, you
like, immediately start to thinkof something else, to bring
your mood down or to bring yourthought I recognize that again,
being aware step one and thenlet it go and get back to the
place where you, you are allowedto feel good.
I just want to tell you thatright now, you are allowed to
(24:24):
feel good and that's what wewant you to do.
Every day, you are allowed tofeel good.
Valerie (24:27):
I just want to tell you that right now, you are allowed
to feel good, and that's whatwe want you to do Every day.
You're allowed to feel good.
There's a part of our brainthat thinks that if we're
feeling bad, that that'sactually protecting us more.
It's like protecting the othershoe from dropping.
Brene Brown talks a lot aboutthat, and Gay Hendricks.
He calls it the upper limitproblem.
And Brene Brown talks about howyou might have a moment where
(24:48):
you look at your child sleeping,which is one of the examples
that she gives in her books Ican't remember which one, but
then she said instantly youmight then be flooded with all
of these feelings of fear, likewhat if something happens to
them, and then you're runninglike a picture in your mind of
all of this horrible stuff,right after you just had this
really heart open moment filledwith joy.
(25:17):
And that's because joy isactually vulnerable, feeling
that it is okay and it is safeto do that.
So, instead of looking alloutside for all of the reasons
why that feeling of delight andjoy is validated and worthy,
instead of doing that, let thatfeeling be enough to keep and
(25:41):
when you again can notice that,if you notice, oh, I just had a
really good feeling and thoughtthis, thought that felt really
good, and now I'm thinking allof these bad things immediately
after.
Just notice that and see if youcan practice bringing yourself
back to the good feeling andthat delight feeling, and see if
(26:03):
you can just savor it a littlebit more instead of immediately
jumping to seek that permissionor the validation.
And again, you don't have toknow where any of it is leading
just yet.
That feeling is enough.
So number four is lowering thestakes on purpose, and this is
(26:23):
sort of tied to what we justpiggybacked, that point where
you don't have to have the wholething figured out because that
feels big and scary anddebilitating.
So, going back again to thechildren's book idea, if you're
like, oh my goodness, is thisgoing to get on the New York
Times bestselling list, and whois this going to get on the New
(26:44):
York Times bestselling list andwho is this going to be in front
of?
And I'm going to talk topublishers, and all of a sudden
that starts to feel likepressure and it's like, oh well,
what if it's not that?
And what am I going to do?
And I have to have it allfigured it out.
But what if you instead wouldtake this spark of an idea, or
whatever it is, and your nextmove, or even about the idea
(27:08):
itself?
What if you would just think ofit as it's going to be bad?
Almost Almost like making thefirst pancake where the first
one is always bad, it's alwaysterrible.
Mak (27:23):
And you know what?
Every time I make a recipe forthe first time, I go in saying
I'm probably going to screw thisup.
The thing is going to happenwhere I read the ingredients 25
times and then somehow I missedone and it screws the whole
thing up.
It's like I don't know how thatworks, but I think that happens
to everybody.
Valerie (27:43):
I make bad recipes all the time.
Mak (27:46):
But if the first time you're making a recipe it
doesn't turn out, you probablydon't beat yourself up.
You go okay, well, it was myfirst time trying it and
literally you have to go in withthat attitude because it will
be more fun if you go in and saylook, I'm just doing this for
fun, I'm just trying to make itwork.
Valerie (28:02):
And when that works is when you're not expecting your
family and your spouse's parentsto come over, and your
mother-in-law is a gourmet chef,and so then you decide to try
10 new recipes and set a wholething.
That's pressure.
Mak (28:27):
Well, it would be like yeah , it's like you're doing
Thanksgiving for the first timefor your family and you've never
cooked any of it before.
You would not do that.
Most like you would.
I mean, I'm sure that'shappened, but I personally would
do a trial run the week before.
I honestly would, because andyou know what you would too, and
that's what this is just startand go.
You know what.
It's gonna be bad, it's gonnabe messy, but got to get it out.
Valerie (28:42):
Or nobody even has to see this.
Mak (28:44):
No.
Valerie (28:44):
No one has to see this.
I'm just going to play, I'mjust going to dabble.
It's okay if it doesn't see thelight of day.
Go in with that low stakesattitude.
Mak (28:53):
And also and I can't under underline this enough because
you've decided to commit to thisfun idea and you're going to
try something new, it doesn'tmean that that now defines you.
You're not putting your flag inthe sand.
This is now who I am.
I am a children's book author.
No, you don't have to be achildren's book author.
If you're an accountant andyou're deciding you want to
(29:14):
write a children's book, that'sfine.
You're still an accountant, butyou can write a children's book
on the side.
Don't let those pressures buildup, because they'll keep you
from moving forward.
Valerie (29:25):
I think that brings up a point of I think social media
has done that to a lot of uswhere we feel like so much gets
wrapped up into our identity andif we're trying this, then that
what is that going to say?
And that's let's make a note,because we should do a whole
other podcast just on identityand separating what we do from
(29:46):
who we are, because it isseparate.
Your identity is not going tobe wrapped up in any single
thing that you do, even yourprofession.
That's still not your identityin any way.
So we'll let's come back tothat point, because our last one
is decide that you're willingto be seen imperfectly.
(30:08):
Just decide it.
Mak (30:10):
There is so much power in that, when you finally go, you
know what.
I'm just going to show up as meand I'm not going to be perfect
and I don't have to proveanything.
It is so freeing.
Oh, the world opens up.
Oh, my goodness, does lifechange.
Valerie (30:26):
Because creativity is going to demand messy,
Creativity is going to demandvulnerable.
So if you just make thatdecision, I decide to have the
courage to be imperfect.
I decide consciously to havethe courage to move forward even
(30:50):
if I'm scared.
Mak (30:51):
Let's talk about the global phenomenon of Wicked for a
moment.
When they were constructing theoriginal Broadway show I forget
how many years ago it was now20 years ago, maybe 25, 30,
something like that in SanFrancisco it went through so
many drafts 2530, something likethat in San Francisco.
It went through so many drafts,so many revisions.
Stephen Schwartz threw out somany songs.
He was forced to keep songs hedidn't want to keep.
(31:12):
He was forced to throw outsongs that he thought would be
showstoppers.
The writers wrote and rewrotesections.
There were characters thatnever made it in and then were
put in and back and forth andall this stuff.
Do you know how messy that was,what a terribly messy process.
And they went through it and itwas grueling.
It was not necessarily easy,but they all loved doing it.
(31:36):
They loved being in the messand look what it did.
Look what the result of all ofthat messy work.
They didn't all go in trying tocreate something perfect, they
just went in giving ofthemselves.
And now we have this globalphenomenon.
Valerie (31:53):
So decide now that you're willing.
You're willing to start small,you're willing to start messy,
you're willing to be in processand in progress, not quite
knowing and letting it develop,and take one foot in front of
the other.
Let it be imperfect Perfect isa myth anyway and all it will do
(32:16):
is steal your joy in the wholeentire process, because even
when you are trying to beperfect, you're still going to
make mistakes, you're stillgoing to have missteps and
things are going to just not goas planned.
So to save you a lot of grief,let's just decide right now that
I'm willing to do itimperfectly.
Mak (32:39):
And plus, if you work and overwork and overwork and
overthink something to the pointwhere you feel like it's
perfect, the second you unleashit on the world, they're going
to literally be tens ofthousands of people who think it
isn't perfect.
Valerie (32:51):
Because you could never please everybody.
Mak (32:54):
You're never, ever going to because, look you, you don't
like everything you see andeverything that people see that
you do, they're not going tolike.
So as soon as you let go ofthat and you go, you know what?
I'm just going to listen to myfans and not the critics, and
that's really who you shouldlisten to.
Then it's like okay, I can beimperfect, because actually
(33:17):
people want that, they want tosee your imperfection because
they relate to that, they wantto be a part of that process.
That's why we all like behindthe scenes.
Why do we all love bloopers andbehind the scenes and all this
stuff?
It's because we watch and weexperience these things and then
we want to see all the waysthey screwed up because that
shows us that they are imperfectin making the art that we now
(33:41):
love, and that's just a part ofwho we are.
So, show up messy, be messy,it's okay, nobody cares, just be
messy, it's freeing.
Valerie (33:51):
Yes, Courage, and having courage is not about
being fearless, it's not aboutdoing it perfectly, it's about
being terrified and doing itanyway.
It's moving anyway into thatplace.
That just becomes real and raw.
(34:13):
And that is, like you said,that is what people relate to in
other people.
That is what makes this wholehuman experience of creating
something and putting it outthere so powerful, because it
comes from these real places.
And again, this is the path.
Nothing is ever born fullyformed.
(34:35):
We have a process and your art,your creativity, whatever it is
that you are creating, is goingto go through a period of
gestation.
That needs to happen and it'sall part of it.
And when you just decide tomove anyway, even if you're
(34:56):
scared, that is where the magicis going to live.
So five steps to stopping thispattern of overthinking so that
you can move forward.
Tap into those sparks and thosepieces of magic that you have
within you.
It was one catch the fear earlyby noticing that it's fear, so
(35:17):
that you can consciously moveforward.
Two take the tiny, imperfectactions, just the smallest steps
you can think of.
Take that first and just movebefore your brain has a chance
to create a case against you.
Three trust that feeling ofdelight.
We're not taught to trust thosefeelings of joy and delight,
(35:38):
but they are your internalcompass.
Four lower the stakes onpurpose.
The whole masterpiece isn'tgoing to get built in one day.
It's going to be messy, it'sgoing to go step by step.
So tell yourself this is thefirst pancake, you're just doing
it messy.
And five decide that you'rewilling to be seen imperfectly
(36:00):
and you have the courage to doso and move forward anyway.
Mak (36:04):
Thank you so much for being with us today on the Unbound
Creative Podcast.
If you found this helpful, wewould really appreciate it if
you would go give us a five-starreview and even write a review
on Apple Podcasts.
That would be a super big helpand it also helps people like
you find the podcast.
The other thing is hitting thatsubscribe button and following
that helps amplify everythingthat we're doing.
We thank you so much for beinghere and we will see you next
(36:28):
time.
Valerie (36:28):
See you next time.
Bye.
welcome back to the unbound creative podcast.
We are so excited to be backwith you.
I'm valerie I'm mac and here webelieve that you have magic
within you.
Why are we doing this?
Why are we talking about thesethings and creativity?
It is because we believe thatyou have magic within you.
(00:31):
That is your own individualbrand of magic and when you
unlock it, when you take thatout of the box, that maybe and
there are all different kinds ofboxes we can put our own selves
in boxes, we can have boxesthat other people have put on us
or ways that we believe we needto stay in the box, but when we
(00:53):
can open that out and liveunbound, we believe it will
change your life and also changethe world.
Creativity changes the worldand we need the magic that you
offer.
Mak (01:05):
And you know, so often people have forgotten about this
part of themselves or they putit away 10 years ago, 15 years
ago, 50 years ago.
And now you are living everyday in a way that doesn't feel
lit up or magical, or you'rejust kind of in the mundane
(01:26):
routine.
The should territory I should bedoing all of and, and so you're
left going well, what is there?
What is there for me?
What is you know?
You just feel like something ismissing and you can't quite put
your finger on it.
We believe that this is theanswer for every single human
(01:46):
being is reconnecting with thatinner, magical part of yourself.
Valerie (01:50):
What often stops us?
Well, there are many things,but one of the big things that
stops us from moving forward,when we start to tap into that
part of us and we're feelingthat spark and that lit up and
the thing we're going to talkabout, that stops so much of us,
is overthinking.
(02:11):
And tell us, dm us, if youexperience this I think it's
everybody.
Where we have a spark, thathappens or we have an idea,
something just kind of lands inyour brain in this way that you
can't even explain it.
You just are like, oh, that wasan interesting passing thought,
(02:34):
I should maybe explore this.
Or we have that idea that comesto us that seems like it was
out of nowhere, that little bitof inspiration that's often a
whisper, by the way.
And then we get really excited.
And then what happens?
We do research.
We're like, ok, well, I can'tjust start, let me figure this
(02:58):
out.
And we go into our left brainand we're like let's logic this
out and figure this out.
Mak (03:04):
And a lot of times that research is done without doing
physical research.
You sit there and, in your mind, within an instant of having a
great idea or something thatfeels good, you immediately come
up with 15 reasons why it won'twork.
Or it will be too hard, or youdon't have the skills, or you
don't have the connections, oryou don't have the finances to
(03:24):
do it.
You're puncturing holes in thisbeautiful idea 10 seconds after
it's been born.
Valerie (03:31):
That is so true.
Yeah, the outward research.
But then internally, how we'rejust automatically like oh yeah,
nope, that won't work for allof these reasons and we can
always come up with reasons whythings won't work- and I was
just with a friend the other daywho said oh yeah, I'm a, I'm a
hole puncher.
Mak (03:51):
They actually call themselves a hole puncher.
And I said what's a holepuncher?
Well, when someone has a reallygreat idea, they usually don't
come to me because I'm the onewho sits there and goes well,
here are all the reasons why itwon't work.
And they were like proud ofthis and I was like I feel bad
for you because that's that'sgoing to keep you from ever
(04:11):
doing anything big and bold andbeautiful.
Valerie (04:15):
And then there is the actual research.
So if you have a really goodidea maybe a business you want
to start, or maybe art that youwant to start making, or you had
want to start making, or youhad an idea for something what
is our first inclination?
We go let me see what everybodyelse is doing.
So then you go on instagram oryou go online and you have this
beautiful idea.
(04:36):
And then you see all of thesepeople who are doing it, and
they're doing it a million timesbetter that you could ever do
it.
That's what you tell yourself.
That's not what's true, but youare at the very, very beginning
.
You have done nothing at thisstage other than have the idea.
So, of course, when you look atother people who are doing it,
(04:57):
it's going to feel like, oh mygoodness, they're doing it so
much better than me becauseyou're not.
You're not doing it.
It's at the very beginning.
Of course, they are fartheralong.
Mak (05:07):
And I am, I am.
I am as bad at this as anybodyelse, because I have millions of
ideas and, of course, the firstthing I do is I go well, does
somebody have this handle onInstagram?
Is somebody doing this?
And somebody, and I go and Isee and I immediately get
defeated.
I go oh wow, they're doing sucha good job.
I can never compete with that.
They already have it figuredout, they already have all the
(05:30):
customers.
They're five years ahead of me.
Guess what?
The truth is?
You, you both can exist.
There could be 15 people withthe same idea, and all those
people can exist.
That's why Lowe's and HomeDepot are across the street from
each other and Ace is down theroad.
It all works.
They're all doing the samething, but in their own way, and
(05:51):
that's your story too.
So that comparison thing that'salso one of the big tricky ones
.
Valerie (05:57):
We're never saying anything, that we ourselves are
not working through, employingand telling ourselves.
But it is, it's so true, thatfeeling where you were lit up,
you had the spark, you're readyto go, and then it's just like
someone lets the air out of theballoon once we get into these
spirals of overthinking.
(06:19):
And what is overthinking?
We all do it, but let's justcall a spade a spade.
Overthinking is rooted in fear.
It is fear masquerading asbeing prepared.
So we think we have to do allthese things and we're just
being prepared, but really whatit is is fear telling us that we
(06:42):
have to have this type of overpreparation.
Mak (06:45):
It's the hole puncher.
The hole puncher is just afraid.
And that's what we do.
We say, ok, well, before I canmove anything forward, I have to
do all of these things.
I got to get all my ducks in arow, I got to have everything
perfect and then I can take thefirst step.
Listen, no great company thatwas ever built, no great
(07:07):
television show that was evermade, movie that was made, song
that was written or whatever,started from someone having all
the things prepared and thentook the first step.
All of those things, all thethings we love, came from a
single thought, that somebodyacted on with excitement and
motivation in the moment andsaid I'll figure it out, I just
(07:29):
got to move on it.
Valerie (07:30):
You know what To think about that.
I mean any billion dollar ideathat has ever existed.
Where did that come from?
It came from a singular thought.
It came from somebody'sindividual spark saying I wonder
what would happen if?
And then, moving from there,and even when a plan is laid out
(07:51):
so-called perfectly, how oftenin your life do things go to
plan, even in small ways, like,isn't it often, when you are
holding on so tightly to howsomething must go, you end up
being miserable?
I think about family functionsor events, and, yes, we want
(08:13):
everything to be just so and weplan it all out, but oftentimes
things do not go to plan and so,if we are so rigid in that, we
end up having a bad time.
But often it's the times thatwere the spontaneous things just
even in our lives the vacations, the restaurant that was closed
so that you went somewhere downthe street and then you ended
(08:35):
up having this great day thoseare the memories that we often
talk about.
Mak (08:40):
I'm reminded of the time when you were trying to create
the perfect fall day.
Valerie (08:47):
Oh, my goodness With our daughter, vienna.
Mak (08:49):
This was before Charlie was born and you had all this
vision and you had us all in oursweaters and it was 80 degrees
outside in October and we wentto the pumpkin patch and Vienna
was hot and I was hot and shewas grumpy and hungry and
nothing was going right and youand I ended up fighting and
(09:10):
everybody was mad and it wasawful and it was all because you
had this vision of thisbeautiful, crisp day and
everybody was doing pumpkins andcider.
Oh, it was so lovely.
And what I honestly think wasgoing on in that moment, you
were trying to recreate whathappened earlier, on its own,
spontaneously, the year before,because the year before we had
(09:33):
this incredible experience atthe pumpkin patch and it was so
much fun and it wasquintessential fall.
And I think you tried torecreate it the next year and it
just didn't work.
Valerie (09:42):
It's all it's, it's all the expectations of it and
going in with like it has to gothis way.
Mak (09:48):
And.
Valerie (09:48):
I want.
I had to get a certain picturethat I wanted, but you know
what's funny about that, weended up what?
A week or so later,spontaneously finding a new farm
that we had never heard of andwe were just like, oh okay,
let's just go check it out.
And we ended up having thismost beautiful afternoon at a
place that we weren't evenexpecting to stop at.
(10:10):
We didn't even know it wasthere.
Mak (10:11):
It was 10 times better, frankly, yeah we really loved it
.
Valerie (10:14):
The crowds were so much less.
We had this amazing experience.
So you can probably think oftimes in your life that it was
that way, and when you hold onso tightly to the plan, it
blinds you to seeing even whatis out there.
But in creative situations,again, the fear is masquerading
(10:34):
as being prepared and we thinkthat we have to have all of the
ducks in the row.
But even when you do, sometimesthat can even be a detriment at
times.
So the other thing that we do,with the fear masquerading as
being prepared, is that we'reseeking validation over trusting
ourselves.
This is another part of theoverthinking, because we're
(10:57):
trying to think about well,everybody else is doing it this
way and we want to almostinsulate ourselves to know that
we are doing it right andseeking that validation.
Here's what we tend to not trustis that spark, that delight
that you felt, that rush of joy,that rush of aliveness.
(11:19):
When you have that come in,you're like, oh, I would love to
do that, that sounds so muchfun and you're on this high of
inspiration and energy from theidea.
Why don't we trust thatinspiration and energy from the
idea?
Why don't we trust that?
Because then we sink ourselvesdown into okay, well, let me
overthink this to death and Ineed to be the hole puncher and
(11:41):
find all of the other peopledoing it, because I'm trying to
insulate myself and protectmyself.
Why don't we trust the delightand the joy?
And what we want to tell you isthat's the part you get to
trust.
You get to lean into that andsink your teeth into why that
(12:02):
was so amazing.
Mak (12:04):
One of my very first businesses that really worked
was an online radio company, andit was totally by mistake, like
I didn't expect it to do whatit did, and it went on to be
massively huge, one of thelargest actually in history.
And do you know what that was?
If I had started that withresearch and following all the
(12:29):
rules of radio and listening toeverything that every person
that I'd ever worked with inradio said this works, this
doesn't work, you can't do this,you can't do this, you can't do
this, you can do this, youcan't do this, it never would
have happened.
But what I did is I set out tocreate literally a radio station
that I wanted to listen to.
(12:50):
It was for me, it was whatexcited me.
I did everything about thatradio station.
That was me and I loved everysecond of it.
I loved creating it, I lovedlistening to it, I loved
programming it, I loved being onthe air on it and boom, it took
off like wildfire, like nothingI had ever experienced in my
(13:13):
life.
I wasn't focused or thinkingabout money.
I wasn't thinking aboutanything other than what lights
me up, what makes me feel good,and that is what works.
It's like you lean into thatcreative moment.
You lean into that thing thatis drawing you in and you like
you can't do anything else.
But then lean into that thingthat is drawing you in and you
like you can't do anything else.
But then lean into that andwhen you get to that place, then
(13:37):
you don't poke the holesanymore.
And that's the goal is, whenyou doing it from the heart, the
holes don't matter, because youwill actually figure out ways
to plug the holes or go aroundthe holes or keep the holes from
from appearing.
To begin with, and most of thetime the holes are things that
people invented anyway.
That aren't real or true.
They're just things that weattach to what we're doing in
(14:00):
fear of success.
Valerie (14:02):
Essentially, yeah, I don't feel like we're taught
that it's okay to trust thefeelings of fun and play and
delight.
That almost seems like thechildish part that we hear okay,
well, it's time to grow up now.
It's time to get serious.
Mak (14:19):
You're an adult.
Valerie (14:20):
You're in the real world now.
This has to be hard, but yetthe things that lit us up as
children, the things that gaveus delight and play and fun, we
are still those people and thatis that one-way ticket to our
magic when we tap into thoseparts.
But yet we seem to not trustthose things.
(14:41):
When we get that kind ofexcited, giddy butterflies in
the stomach, feeling we almostseek out the validation of that
instead of just letting thatsink in and letting ourselves
flow into that when we're kids.
Mak (14:56):
That's the truest forms of who we are like before the world
gets to us right and, as adults, when we start to feel like a
kid, we shut ourselves down wethink that's somehow bad.
Valerie (15:07):
Right, this is so juvenile.
Mak (15:09):
Are you telling me that when will ferrell was filming
elf, that he didn't feel likewhat kid wouldn't want to?
To have done that?
Been that character you?
He was tapping into this joythat that's within him when he
was filming that and letting itout.
And now we love it.
And why do we love it?
(15:29):
Because it reminds us of how wefelt when we were kids.
And that's the thing, andthat's what you've got to watch.
The overthinking comes in whenyou say, oh no, this is juvenile
.
I'm an adult.
I am not allowed to have fun orbe full of joy from something
that makes me feel like a kid.
Valerie (15:48):
All right, we're going to get super practical with you
on this episode, because we havefive ways that you can
interrupt this overthinkingpattern and then actually move
forward with these sparksinstead of smothering them down,
instead of coming up with amillion and one ways why it
won't work, why everybody'sdoing it better.
(16:09):
We want to help you stop andinterrupt this pattern.
So the first thing is notice,and that's really the first
thing for any change that youwant to make in your life.
It's not about, you know,shoving something aside or
beating something down or I gotto change, and why am I like
(16:31):
this and beating yourself up?
No, no, no.
First step is always to notice.
Mak (16:39):
Just be aware, that's it.
When the thought starts to comein, be aware of it and then
gently take a breath, pause andsay okay, I recognize the
thought, I'm not going to be madat myself for it, let it go and
move on gently.
Valerie (16:55):
And when we can understand because we're
becoming more conscious when wecan understand that so much of
it is fear talking so much of itis just we're trying to the
primal part of us, trying tokeep us safe from creativity
which seems inherently scary toit.
When you start to recognize thatyou will not let your
(17:17):
overthinking kind of get awaywith those sneaky ways of being,
and you'll start to be able totalk to yourself more gently
when you notice it.
So if you find yourself goingdown a rabbit hole on Instagram
and you're researching all ofthese things or you're looking
at other people's artwork goingI could never do it, why should
I even pick up the brush?
Because it's never going tolook like this and you can start
(17:39):
to sense and just notice whatyou're doing.
And then there's a part of youthat can look at that as an
onlooker and say, oh, this isfear, onlooker.
And say, oh, this is fear, I'mtrying to protect myself.
I was all giddy about this.
And now this is just myfamiliar pattern stepping in and
(18:06):
instead of just letting yoursubconscious take over and do
that, you're just noticing itand becoming aware when you do
it.
Mak (18:10):
I did this exact thing this morning.
We were in the car.
I had this, really what Ithought was a brilliant flash of
an idea for a business, and Ieven had I said to you I was
like text me this phrase and soI could make a note about it.
Valerie (18:22):
I was wondering what was that?
Mak (18:25):
I didn't even.
I haven't even told you whatthe idea is yet, but what
happened was the next fiveminutes.
All I did was come up with allthe reasons.
Okay, it's fine.
Now think about what happens ifit would work.
Think about all the cool thingsthat you could do with this.
It's really easy to do.
Valerie (18:46):
So if you're going into an overthinking spiral, just
notice it, become aware.
Step two take one tiny,imperfect action.
So, before the mind spirals out, we're going to just take one
small step.
(19:07):
So maybe that means taking outyour phone and doing a voice
memo.
Just get it out there.
Or maybe open up your journaland really just get it all out.
Get the idea out, brainstorm itout, write the first paragraph.
If you have an idea for a bookmaybe you want to write a
(19:28):
children's book Maybe you justtake out a Google Doc and start
making an outline Just take thatone step to move you forward.
Mak (19:36):
It really depends on how you process the best.
If you are an internalprocessor, I would recommend
doing the journaling, becausethat really helps you get it and
it doesn't have to be like youhave you.
You literally start.
You can just get all of yourideas out on paper.
If you're an external processor, do the voice note, send
yourself a voxer and just talkfor five or six minutes and get
(19:59):
all of your ideas out before thehole puncher steps in.
That's the key.
Valerie (20:05):
That's going to be the new thing now, I know.
Mak (20:07):
I'm going to have to thank this person for calling
themselves but.
But that's going to be.
The key is, do it before youstart punching holes in it.
When you have that moment ofspark and inspiration, that's
when you want to just get thatout as quickly as you can.
Valerie (20:19):
Yep, you want to move before your brain has time to
build a case against you.
Just move, do something, takeone piece of tiny action and the
thing is, clarity is built inthe doing.
We don't have it all figuredout, and that's the other thing
that we don't even.
I don't even have this on thelist.
(20:40):
But when we think then aboutthe end game and we think like,
okay, say it was a children'sbook, you had this spark in my
idea.
What we'll tend to do then isfast forward to the end and it
seems so daunting, like it'sthis huge masterpiece, and
you're like, well, I would haveto talk to these people and how
(21:00):
would I even get published?
And then what is the story?
And if I do this, and how wouldI get the printing done, and
would it go on Amazon and all ofa sudden you had the idea, and
then you're thinking aboutthings that would happen way,
way, way, way, way down the line.
And then it debilitates youbecause it's this huge chunk and
I hate this phrase.
I can't even believe that I'musing this as the example but
(21:21):
how do you eat an elephant?
One bite at a time?
That's what we need to remember.
Get into that first messy,imperfect action.
Remind yourself that this ishow it's built.
Mak (21:37):
You're going to figure out Amazon later down the road.
It's funny because in ourcurrent group coaching program
it's funny because in ourcurrent group coaching program,
you know, we're helping artistslearn how to sell, but from a
lit up and inspired place andnot all the creepy things.
And it's so funny because oneof the one of the first
questions we got when, when wekind of opened up the floor, was
it was like well, how do I dealwith, how do I deal with
(21:59):
copyright, how do I deal withtaxes, how do I deal with?
And I was like OK, those areall legitimate questions and I
love that your mind is there.
But have you sold anything?
And he says, well, no, Ihaven't sold anything yet.
I've only sold a few things.
Okay, great, let's focus on thefun of creating and selling,
because Uncle Sam's not comingafter you yet.
(22:21):
You don't have to worry aboutcopyright yet, we will get.
You will get there.
It's just take one inspiredstep after the other.
So if you do drown yourself inall of these thoughts, that's
one way that you will keepyourself stuck.
Valerie (22:35):
And this is part of the fear masquerading as being
prepared, which is so normal.
We this is part of let'snormalize just how we are as
humans.
It is so natural then to wantto skip 10 steps ahead.
We want to know what's going tohappen, we want to have that
figured out, and that is sonormal.
But often that is going todebilitate us, that's going to
(22:58):
keep us out of the moment,that's going to take us straight
out of the delight that we felt.
And that is point three Trustthe feeling of delight, that
initial excitement that you felt, that little jolt, that like
tingly feeling, the butterfliesin the stomach where you're just
like.
That is your creative compass,that is a true version of you,
(23:27):
that is your magic comingthrough.
We're not taught to trust thatand we are telling you you get
to trust that feeling.
Mak (23:37):
And that feeling is a good feeling.
It's a feeling of joy, it's afeeling of purpose, and Gay
Hendricks would say that withoutpractice, you would immediately
shift into something that woulddestroy that feeling, because
we as humans have been taughtthat we can't feel good for long
periods of time.
Our actual normal state offeeling is actually bad, and
(24:00):
good feelings are only allowedto happen in mere moments.
So what you want to do whenthat happens and you start, you
like, immediately start to thinkof something else, to bring
your mood down or to bring yourthought I recognize that again,
being aware step one and thenlet it go and get back to the
place where you, you are allowedto feel good.
I just want to tell you thatright now, you are allowed to
(24:24):
feel good and that's what wewant you to do.
Every day, you are allowed tofeel good.
Valerie (24:27):
I just want to tell you that right now, you are allowed
to feel good, and that's whatwe want you to do Every day.
You're allowed to feel good.
There's a part of our brainthat thinks that if we're
feeling bad, that that'sactually protecting us more.
It's like protecting the othershoe from dropping.
Brene Brown talks a lot aboutthat, and Gay Hendricks.
He calls it the upper limitproblem.
And Brene Brown talks about howyou might have a moment where
(24:48):
you look at your child sleeping,which is one of the examples
that she gives in her books Ican't remember which one, but
then she said instantly youmight then be flooded with all
of these feelings of fear, likewhat if something happens to
them, and then you're runninglike a picture in your mind of
all of this horrible stuff,right after you just had this
really heart open moment filledwith joy.
(25:17):
And that's because joy isactually vulnerable, feeling
that it is okay and it is safeto do that.
So, instead of looking alloutside for all of the reasons
why that feeling of delight andjoy is validated and worthy,
instead of doing that, let thatfeeling be enough to keep and
(25:41):
when you again can notice that,if you notice, oh, I just had a
really good feeling and thoughtthis, thought that felt really
good, and now I'm thinking allof these bad things immediately
after.
Just notice that and see if youcan practice bringing yourself
back to the good feeling andthat delight feeling, and see if
(26:03):
you can just savor it a littlebit more instead of immediately
jumping to seek that permissionor the validation.
And again, you don't have toknow where any of it is leading
just yet.
That feeling is enough.
So number four is lowering thestakes on purpose, and this is
(26:23):
sort of tied to what we justpiggybacked, that point where
you don't have to have the wholething figured out because that
feels big and scary anddebilitating.
So, going back again to thechildren's book idea, if you're
like, oh my goodness, is thisgoing to get on the New York
Times bestselling list, and whois this going to get on the New
(26:44):
York Times bestselling list andwho is this going to be in front
of?
And I'm going to talk topublishers, and all of a sudden
that starts to feel likepressure and it's like, oh well,
what if it's not that?
And what am I going to do?
And I have to have it allfigured it out.
But what if you instead wouldtake this spark of an idea, or
whatever it is, and your nextmove, or even about the idea
(27:08):
itself?
What if you would just think ofit as it's going to be bad?
Almost Almost like making thefirst pancake where the first
one is always bad, it's alwaysterrible.
Mak (27:23):
And you know what?
Every time I make a recipe forthe first time, I go in saying
I'm probably going to screw thisup.
The thing is going to happenwhere I read the ingredients 25
times and then somehow I missedone and it screws the whole
thing up.
It's like I don't know how thatworks, but I think that happens
to everybody.
Valerie (27:43):
I make bad recipes all the time.
Mak (27:46):
But if the first time you're making a recipe it
doesn't turn out, you probablydon't beat yourself up.
You go okay, well, it was myfirst time trying it and
literally you have to go in withthat attitude because it will
be more fun if you go in and saylook, I'm just doing this for
fun, I'm just trying to make itwork.
Valerie (28:02):
And when that works is when you're not expecting your
family and your spouse's parentsto come over, and your
mother-in-law is a gourmet chef,and so then you decide to try
10 new recipes and set a wholething.
That's pressure.
Mak (28:27):
Well, it would be like yeah , it's like you're doing
Thanksgiving for the first timefor your family and you've never
cooked any of it before.
You would not do that.
Most like you would.
I mean, I'm sure that'shappened, but I personally would
do a trial run the week before.
I honestly would, because andyou know what you would too, and
that's what this is just startand go.
You know what.
It's gonna be bad, it's gonnabe messy, but got to get it out.
Valerie (28:42):
Or nobody even has to see this.
Mak (28:44):
No.
Valerie (28:44):
No one has to see this.
I'm just going to play, I'mjust going to dabble.
It's okay if it doesn't see thelight of day.
Go in with that low stakesattitude.
Mak (28:53):
And also and I can't under underline this enough because
you've decided to commit to thisfun idea and you're going to
try something new, it doesn'tmean that that now defines you.
You're not putting your flag inthe sand.
This is now who I am.
I am a children's book author.
No, you don't have to be achildren's book author.
If you're an accountant andyou're deciding you want to
(29:14):
write a children's book, that'sfine.
You're still an accountant, butyou can write a children's book
on the side.
Don't let those pressures buildup, because they'll keep you
from moving forward.
Valerie (29:25):
I think that brings up a point of I think social media
has done that to a lot of uswhere we feel like so much gets
wrapped up into our identity andif we're trying this, then that
what is that going to say?
And that's let's make a note,because we should do a whole
other podcast just on identityand separating what we do from
(29:46):
who we are, because it isseparate.
Your identity is not going tobe wrapped up in any single
thing that you do, even yourprofession.
That's still not your identityin any way.
So we'll let's come back tothat point, because our last one
is decide that you're willingto be seen imperfectly.
(30:08):
Just decide it.
Mak (30:10):
There is so much power in that, when you finally go, you
know what.
I'm just going to show up as meand I'm not going to be perfect
and I don't have to proveanything.
It is so freeing.
Oh, the world opens up.
Oh, my goodness, does lifechange.
Valerie (30:26):
Because creativity is going to demand messy,
Creativity is going to demandvulnerable.
So if you just make thatdecision, I decide to have the
courage to be imperfect.
I decide consciously to havethe courage to move forward even
(30:50):
if I'm scared.
Mak (30:51):
Let's talk about the global phenomenon of Wicked for a
moment.
When they were constructing theoriginal Broadway show I forget
how many years ago it was now20 years ago, maybe 25, 30,
something like that in SanFrancisco it went through so
many drafts 2530, something likethat in San Francisco.
It went through so many drafts,so many revisions.
Stephen Schwartz threw out somany songs.
He was forced to keep songs hedidn't want to keep.
(31:12):
He was forced to throw outsongs that he thought would be
showstoppers.
The writers wrote and rewrotesections.
There were characters thatnever made it in and then were
put in and back and forth andall this stuff.
Do you know how messy that was,what a terribly messy process.
And they went through it and itwas grueling.
It was not necessarily easy,but they all loved doing it.
(31:36):
They loved being in the messand look what it did.
Look what the result of all ofthat messy work.
They didn't all go in trying tocreate something perfect, they
just went in giving ofthemselves.
And now we have this globalphenomenon.
Valerie (31:53):
So decide now that you're willing.
You're willing to start small,you're willing to start messy,
you're willing to be in processand in progress, not quite
knowing and letting it develop,and take one foot in front of
the other.
Let it be imperfect Perfect isa myth anyway and all it will do
(32:16):
is steal your joy in the wholeentire process, because even
when you are trying to beperfect, you're still going to
make mistakes, you're stillgoing to have missteps and
things are going to just not goas planned.
So to save you a lot of grief,let's just decide right now that
I'm willing to do itimperfectly.
Mak (32:39):
And plus, if you work and overwork and overwork and
overthink something to the pointwhere you feel like it's
perfect, the second you unleashit on the world, they're going
to literally be tens ofthousands of people who think it
isn't perfect.
Valerie (32:51):
Because you could never please everybody.
Mak (32:54):
You're never, ever going to because, look you, you don't
like everything you see andeverything that people see that
you do, they're not going tolike.
So as soon as you let go ofthat and you go, you know what?
I'm just going to listen to myfans and not the critics, and
that's really who you shouldlisten to.
Then it's like okay, I can beimperfect, because actually
(33:17):
people want that, they want tosee your imperfection because
they relate to that, they wantto be a part of that process.
That's why we all like behindthe scenes.
Why do we all love bloopers andbehind the scenes and all this
stuff?
It's because we watch and weexperience these things and then
we want to see all the waysthey screwed up because that
shows us that they are imperfectin making the art that we now
(33:41):
love, and that's just a part ofwho we are.
So, show up messy, be messy,it's okay, nobody cares, just be
messy, it's freeing.
Valerie (33:51):
Yes, Courage, and having courage is not about
being fearless, it's not aboutdoing it perfectly, it's about
being terrified and doing itanyway.
It's moving anyway into thatplace.
That just becomes real and raw.
(34:13):
And that is, like you said,that is what people relate to in
other people.
That is what makes this wholehuman experience of creating
something and putting it outthere so powerful, because it
comes from these real places.
And again, this is the path.
Nothing is ever born fullyformed.
(34:35):
We have a process and your art,your creativity, whatever it is
that you are creating, is goingto go through a period of
gestation.
That needs to happen and it'sall part of it.
And when you just decide tomove anyway, even if you're
(34:56):
scared, that is where the magicis going to live.
So five steps to stopping thispattern of overthinking so that
you can move forward.
Tap into those sparks and thosepieces of magic that you have
within you.
It was one catch the fear earlyby noticing that it's fear, so
(35:17):
that you can consciously moveforward.
Two take the tiny, imperfectactions, just the smallest steps
you can think of.
Take that first and just movebefore your brain has a chance
to create a case against you.
Three trust that feeling ofdelight.
We're not taught to trust thosefeelings of joy and delight,
(35:38):
but they are your internalcompass.
Four lower the stakes onpurpose.
The whole masterpiece isn'tgoing to get built in one day.
It's going to be messy, it'sgoing to go step by step.
So tell yourself this is thefirst pancake, you're just doing
it messy.
And five decide that you'rewilling to be seen imperfectly
(36:00):
and you have the courage to doso and move forward anyway.
Mak (36:04):
Thank you so much for being with us today on the Unbound
Creative Podcast.
If you found this helpful, wewould really appreciate it if
you would go give us a five-starreview and even write a review
on Apple Podcasts.
That would be a super big helpand it also helps people like
you find the podcast.
The other thing is hitting thatsubscribe button and following
that helps amplify everythingthat we're doing.
We thank you so much for beinghere and we will see you next
(36:28):
time.
Valerie (36:28):
See you next time.
Bye.
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