November 12, 2024 • 51 mins
One of the most daunting aspects of being an Artpreneur is figuring out how to price your work. In this next episode of “Sell Your Work, Without the Stress” Series, long-time entrepreneurs Valerie and Mak McKeehan share their secrets and philosophies for not only pricing, but pricing in a way that is fulfilling and exciting! Whether you're struggling to set a price that feels appropriate or looking to transform your art business, this episode offers a fresh perspective and actionable advice that promises to change the way you view the rocky road of pricing your artwork.
Selling art isn't about the materials—it's about the emotions and experiences your work brings to others. We discuss the importance of selling feelings like joy and peace, rather than pain, materials, and time. We illustrate the magical connection art creates between people, emphasizing how value surpasses the tangible aspects. You'll learn how to simplify the selling process, start with what you have, and embrace the joy of selling through sharing your authentic creativity.
- Learn more and begin your selling journey here: https://valeriemckeehan.com/sellwithpeace
Thanks for listening to The UnBound Creative!
If today’s episode resonated with you, share it with a friend or leave us a review, it helps more creatives discover the show.
💌 Connect with us on Instagram:
@valeriemckeehan & @thatmakguy (that’s Mak with a K!)
Keep creating bravely. We’re so glad you’re here.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Valerie (00:02):
I am so excited to be back with you today having
another conversation about art,about entrepreneurship.
It is going to be so good.
My name is Valerie McKen.
You are listening to thePeaceful, Creative Podcast.
I'm joined today by my husband,again Mac.
Mak (00:23):
Hello.
Valerie (00:24):
And we are going to continue having the conversation
that we started in the lastepisode, so if you haven't yet
listened to that, I recommenddoing it.
We dove into the idea ofmindset when it comes to
starting an art business,selling your work, being an
artpreneur.
(00:44):
What are some of these mindsetbarriers that we have to doing
that?
So I recommend checking thatout.
But today we are continuingthat conversation into the most
asked about topic.
Over my entire career I've beengetting this question.
(01:04):
It is all about pricing and wehave some philosophies around
that.
That's really going to help you.
Before we get into that, Iwanted to remind you of what we
have going on right now, whichis the launch of our newest
course called the PeacefulArtpreneur.
Mak (01:24):
And we're so excited to be doing this because it's the
first time Valerie and I haveteamed up together to do a
course.
But it's super exciting becausewe're finally answering all the
questions that, as Valmentioned a moment ago, have
been asked of her and I over thelast 10, 15 years of selling
millions and millions of dollarsworth of art across the two
(01:47):
businesses that we have created,and we just felt like it was
time, and so we're ready to divein together with you.
This is not a here's, a bunchof modules, go off on your own
and do it, kind of course.
What I'm personally reallyexcited about is that we're
going to do this with you.
We're going to hold your hand,you're going to have plenty of
(02:10):
opportunities throughout thecourse to be able to get in a
hot seat or ask us questions andrespond, and we're literally
going to build this coursearound all of the participants
as it's going on.
So it's super exciting.
Valerie (02:23):
Because Mac, how many courses do you think we've
purchased?
That just sat on the computer,just a bunch of modules and
throughout our entireentrepreneurial journey, which
started back in 2008?
Together, together, yeah.
I feel like having thatcontainer where we could
(02:45):
actually ask a question or say,hey, that worked for you, that's
great, but is that going towork for me?
And how can I fit into this?
Because you are unique and,just as your art and creativity
is unique, the way that you wantto show up to this whole idea
of selling is unique.
Mak (03:04):
And I feel like you hit the nail on the head.
I think we've had so manydiscussions over the years about
people who come out, theyfigure out a way to make it work
for them and then they come outand act like an expert.
What works for them is one sizefits all and it works for
everybody, and that's just nottrue of anything.
Okay, so Elon Musk can sendrockets into space and build
(03:27):
electric cars.
If he came out with a course onhow to do that, I don't
necessarily think that I wouldbe sending rockets into space in
five years.
So that's why we wanted tobuild this course this way,
where it is not a dialogue orit's not a monologue.
It's a dialogue.
We work together, we help youunderstand your strengths and
develop your strengths and lookat all of the talent that will
(03:50):
be part of this, and we can worktogether to build a plan for
you, specifically using theprinciples that we have come up
with over doing this and sellingmillions of dollars worth of
art over the last 10 to 15 years.
Valerie (04:02):
All in a community, which I think is the beautiful
thing about it too.
I think artists, we tend to bea little more nervous, maybe
sometimes about being in a grouplike that, being in a community
.
But the power of that havingsomebody else that says, hey,
I'm walking through this too,I'm doing this too, we're doing
(04:26):
it together, we're encouragingeach other, we're supporting one
another, being with others inthat way where you don't have to
go at it alone, is so important, and it's going to be the
reason why you actually makechange and do something
differently, because we all canslip back into our old ways of
doing things.
(04:47):
We might have aspirations or wehave things that we say we want
to do, and often the differencebetween actually doing it and
not doing it is theaccountability and having other
people that you are surroundingyourself with who are doing the
same thing.
Mak (05:02):
So, whether you have never sold an art piece in your life
at any level, or you've beenselling art, but maybe not at
the level you want to, or youhave questions, this course is
for you and I know up to thispoint too.
Everything that we have put outValerie has put out in terms of
(05:26):
her courses and her memberships, and everything has all been
specific to artists in themedium of soft pastel, because
that is your fine art medium.
But this course is not softpastel specific.
This is for anyone who, anyartist, who's creating?
anything you have, mostly visualartists know if you're
(05:47):
listening to this and you foundthis and you see that Val's all
about soft pastel, that's true,and that's her form of art.
But this is for everybody andright now is is the best time to
get going.
We're releasing this series ofpodcasts the beginning of
November, but we have an earlybird special that is available
right now and it's onlyavailable for the next several
(06:09):
days and then the price will goup.
So make sure you check all ofthat out.
We'll put a link in the shownotes, but it's ValerieMcKeoncom
slash sell with peace.
No capitals, no spaces oranything, just ValerieMcKeoncom
slash sell with peace.
For all the details.
Valerie (06:26):
And if you're thinking, okay, I'm going into this busy
time of year we know holidaysare coming.
December is crazy.
The course officially kicks offin January.
So we're going to be hittingthe ground running in January.
But when you purchase now, whenyou become part of the course
now, there are bonuses that youare going to receive in November
(06:47):
and December.
So, although we're going toofficially kick off, you don't
have to wait.
You can prepare yourself sothat you are ready to go.
You're in that zone, you'realready.
Just just ready.
So we are going to be doingthree bonus calls.
There's going to be a pricingmaster class call that's going
(07:07):
to really jump off of what we'regoing to cover in today's
episode.
There's going to be a holidaysales boot camp where you can
even start to make some salesnow, in the time when people are
ready to buy.
You could even pay for theprice of the course before it
even starts in january.
And then we're going to bedoing a vision casting workshop
with creating a vision board andhow we like to approach that
(07:30):
idea of goal setting in a waythat is very life-giving.
The whole idea with the peacefulentrepreneur that a lot of
people come at these topics likethis is hard work and you
better hunker down and struggleand all of this.
That's a very strong culturalmessaging.
But we want to say this gets tobe fun and creative and feel
(07:54):
good and you get to have a lifethat you want to have.
You get to go after thesedreams and, yes, there are parts
that we have to overcome ourold ways of thinking and that
can get uncomfortable, but atthe same time, we are all going
for this idea of having a lifethat you love and this gets to
be part of it.
(08:14):
So, if that is something, if theidea of selling your work, if
it is even a dream that you have, like, oh, someday I would love
that, but I don't know howthat's possible for me.
Maybe you're not even.
Maybe you are chomping at thebit and you're like, oh, someday
I would love that, but I don'tknow how that's possible for me.
Maybe you're not even.
Maybe you are chomping at thebit and you're like, I'm ready,
let's go.
But maybe you're saying, oh, Idon't know if I'm ready, I don't
know if I'm worthy of this, Idon't know.
I want to encourage you tostill check it out, because
(08:37):
you're probably more ready thanyou think you are, and we would
just love to have you be part ofthis kick off the new year 2025
in this way.
Mak (08:49):
And so all of those bonuses are only available if you sign
up before the deadline, the endof the week.
So again, check that out.
You get all of that for free.
You get to start right away ifyou want to.
And one other thing I wanted tosay is about you were talking
about the busy time of year.
But people are.
(09:09):
We're all just busy in general.
You and I, we have two girlsfive and almost two and we're
running two businesses and thislife is crazy, and so we get it.
We're're not gonna fire hoseyou in this course.
We have developed it in a waythat it will be fun, it will be
(09:31):
light-hearted and it won't takeup a hundred hours of your time.
You know it will be.
It will be.
It will just be a lot of fun,and we understand how busy you
are.
So we're gonna give youeverything, everything that you
need to get going in your artlife and in your art business,
if you want to call it that, butwithout you having to dedicate
(09:52):
like a crazy, crazy amount oftime.
Valerie (09:55):
Yeah, so today we are with you for the next, I guess,
four days now, including today.
Including today.
We're going to continue withthis series of really tackling
some of these big topics thatwe're going to be covering in
the course, but just giving youan idea of ways that you can use
(10:17):
this information right now, andwe think you'll walk away with
a lot of takeaways.
Today, the focus is on settinga price.
Mak (10:27):
This is the big one.
This is what everybody wants toknow.
Valerie (10:30):
Okay, let's level set here.
What are you actually sellingas an artist?
Let's start there with thatquestion.
Mak (10:40):
I'll be the artist for a second Paper, canvas, paint and
my time.
Valerie (10:49):
Incorrect?
No, how often do we hear that,though, where maybe you have
heard these ideas of pricingyour work where it's like, well,
how much did your materialscost?
And then, well, your time, andthen divide that by this and
multiply by this, and and we'respeaking here specifically to
(11:11):
those who are selling originalart.
Now, of course, there are otherways to sell art.
There are product manufacturing.
we have done, we've done it all,we've done all of it licensing
product manufacturing we've doneoverseas manufacturing, we've
done domestic manufacturing,we've done all of it.
Licensing product manufacturingWe've done overseas
manufacturing, we've donedomestic manufacturing, we've
done print on demand.
Print on demand.
I mean all of it, but thisspecifically for this
conversation.
(11:31):
Let's talk about original art,and what is it that you are
selling.
Mak (11:36):
Frankly, I think we should start there, because that's the
best place to start.
We tend to, when we get intodoing something new, we over
complicate things because of afear of starting.
So we, we, this is a naturalhuman instinct instead of
starting, we come up with all ofthese things, these checklists,
(11:56):
all this stuff we have to do,and it's really, deep down, a
subconscious way to avoidgetting started.
So if, if your natural instinctis well, I can't start because
I need a logo and I need awebsite and I need to change all
of this stuff and I need tofind a printer and I need to do
this and I need to do that, no,you could literally sell a piece
of original art that you havein your portfolio today and
(12:18):
actually make money todaywithout any of that stuff.
So that's why we're choosing tostart with selling originals.
Valerie (12:24):
Yeah.
So what are you selling then?
If you're not selling the painton a canvas, you're not selling
the paper, it's art.
You are selling air, you'reselling energy.
You're selling a feeling.
You're selling somebody's joy,that you're selling them a
(12:48):
feeling of peace.
It is.
This is one of my favoritethings to talk about.
Just as a side note for thosewho know me, I can go on and on
about this.
But art, it's the mystery ofart, of art.
(13:10):
Why is it that you can stand infront of a piece of art and,
just inexplicably, you'rebrought to tears.
Something washes over you, thatyou feel compelled and drawn
toward it, and it's differentfor everybody.
I've had a piece of art in myhome, for example, and my
mother-in-law I rememberspecifically she's like that's
(13:31):
bad.
Do you remember that it was apiece of?
It was a watercolor, and she'slike that is not technically
good at all, but I loved it.
And I think we have thoseexperiences of art.
Where is it the mosttechnically proficient thing?
And I teach that.
When I teach artists to paint,it's like, yeah, we want to have
(13:51):
enough technical abilities tobe able to materialize something
, but at the end of the day, themagic is the mystery, the magic
is the energy of it and how ittouches you, how it makes you
think, how it makes you maybefeel unsettled, maybe it makes
you feel a little melancholy, orthere's just something about it
(14:14):
.
You can't put your finger on it.
That's all forms of art, buteven the visual art.
It really is this magical,mystical way of creation, how
and how we relate to one anotheras human beings, how it
connects us, how words fail, butwe have art to be able to say
(14:37):
things that we didn't even know,that we needed to say or needed
a release of.
I could go on and on and onabout this, but my point being
in this conversation, thatthat's what you're selling.
You are selling a connection toanother human being, that they
(14:58):
are saying yes to how this pieceis making them feel, to how
this piece is making them feel,and to me that's the magic of
original art, because we could,you know, it could break down to
the colors that somebody wantsin their home and this is what
fits their space, and we havethat going into it as well, but
(15:22):
really going into it as well.
But really, these pieces thatspeak to somebody.
Mak (15:31):
What is that value?
What is that worth?
Yeah, absolutely, it's 100%, anenergetic exchange in value.
100%.
It has nothing to do with thematerial or the time or actually
the physical energy that youput into a piece.
There are pieces I always thinkabout the Billy Joel example
(15:54):
and that is New York State ofMind.
He wrote that song in like 25minutes on a Greyhound bus home
from LA.
He got home he went up to thepiano he said the whole song
took him like 25 minutes towrite.
And now that is one of the mostfamous Billy Joel songs of all
(16:15):
time.
It's been covered more than anyother song he's ever written
and everybody knows that songand when you listen to it I
don't care where you are, what'sgoing on, you feel like you're
in New York.
It was the energy.
So that song, in terms ofphysical return on investment,
he's made way more money on thatsong than songs that he put
(16:36):
days or weeks into writing.
Valerie (16:39):
And because his energy was aligned and that song
touched everybody who listenedto it, there's so much that I
want to say on this topic,because this is we talked about
some blocks, some mindset issuesin the last episode and another
one that we didn't talk about.
But another one is that somepeople have this feeling that it
(17:00):
has to be hard in order to makemoney, and I think artists fall
into that sometimes, and thisis maybe why we have these
cliches of the suffering,struggling artists, because we
have this subconscious beliefthat you have to prove and earn.
And if it, if I didn't put myblood, sweat and tears into this
piece, how can I charge realmoney for that?
(17:21):
But guess what you can.
And I want to tell a story thatI love telling this story
because where we used to live inPittsburgh, we lived in the
same place of Leanne Ford, theHGTV designer, and we went into
one of her stores that was thislike cool buck mason hybrid of a
(17:44):
store and it was really awesome.
She had these.
They weren't even paintings,honestly, they're scribbles,
they're like and they look likethey're done in like crayon or
something it's like this blackpaint and it's on the type of
paper that is um like if you goto home goods and buy a bowl,
they're gonna wrap your piece inthis type of newsprint yeah
(18:05):
right, um, and we were in thereand I was just drawn to these
pieces and I'm like oh, they'rejust, they're fun, they're bowls
and there were like 25 or 30 ofthem literally just hanging
over a railing going down to thebasement where they store
everything, right?
But I'm drawn to these for someagain unknown reason.
I'm like oh, I really likethese.
(18:25):
They were $100 each for thisscribble and it was really cool.
We were in there, we wereshopping and Leanne walked in
herself.
We hadn't met her yet and weended up getting in a
conversation with her and shesaid that's my play, that's my
fun, I love doing that and youcould feel it again.
(18:46):
It wasn't what was being said.
I was already drawn to thesethings.
And then I have her saying oh,that's my pure play.
I'm a kid again again and I'mthinking well, they're scribbles
, that makes sense.
Mak (18:58):
She freely admitted like each one took like two minutes.
Valerie (19:01):
Yeah, and guess what we did?
We pulled out our wallet andsaid thank you.
Mak (19:07):
We wanted that.
Valerie (19:07):
Here's my hundred dollars.
And guess what?
We had the biggest smiles onour face the entire time doing
it, because what that said aboutus, because what that said
about us.
We co-signed that story, thatplay, and we said we feel it too
.
Mak (19:28):
And we want a piece of that .
And I want to say now and Iwant to get this out there,
because I can hear some of youright now saying well, it's
because it's Leanne Ford, Idon't care if it was leanne ford
or some artist I had neverheard of before because we
really hadn't heard of herbefore, to be honest.
Well, I mean yeah, we're notbig tv consumers, so we weren't,
you know.
Valerie (19:49):
But we weren't big fans .
Mak (19:50):
We weren't big fans we didn't go in there looking to
run into leanne ford.
She's great and we, like you,know she's cool now.
But but my point is it couldhave been, it had nothing to do
with her.
You should see this thing, this, this, it's this fun, playful
picture of a martini glass andwe just fell in love with it.
(20:11):
It had nothing to do with her.
So we didn't say OK, it's worth100 bucks because it's Leanne
Ford.
It was worth a hundred bucksbecause it really represents
sort of our personalities.
And now it's framed and hangingin actually one of the most
prominent positions in our houseright now in Nashville, because
when people walk into the roomthey see it and you go okay,
(20:33):
these people are playful,they're fun, they're loose.
Valerie (20:37):
And it's a story.
Mak (20:38):
It's a cool story, and and so it's not because it was
leanne ford.
I want to put that out there,okay.
Valerie (20:43):
So that brings us to the next point.
If we determine, okay, what itis that we're actually selling,
you're?
You're selling air, you'reselling feelings, you're selling
joy, you're selling atransformation of somebody's
emotional environment into apiece of art that connects us.
And I could go on and on and onand on about beauty and how we
(21:04):
need it and, as humans, wethrive on it.
It's big.
You are not selling milk andeggs and bread.
Mak (21:10):
It's not a commodity.
Valerie (21:11):
That have a kind of an overarching idea of this is what
this costs.
We're not selling that.
Mak (21:19):
And so there's this like bizarre thing that we've run
across now a couple times, whereartists like, okay, well,
there's like a square inch andyou multiply the price per
square inch and that's all basedon how much success I've had as
an artist and other artistsjudged me to be worthy of
charging more because I gotthese letters behind my name.
(21:41):
Let me tell you something rightnow.
That is all superfluous.
I don't know the word.
What am I saying?
Superfluous, superfluous.
You know what I'm trying to say.
That doesn't matter.
That's all made up.
The square inch size of yourcanvas doesn't mean anything.
You can sell a canvas the sizeof a wall, an entire wall, for
(22:04):
$5,000 if you want, but you canalso sell a little, three by
seven, three by five, four bysix for $5,000.
Also, it has nothing to do withit.
What it has to do with is theenergy, the value, the story,
what you put into it and what itfeels good coming back to you.
Valerie (22:23):
Right, it is all the value.
Mak (22:26):
Superfluous.
There it is Superfluous.
I wasn't going to not get thatright, okay, sorry.
Valerie (22:34):
Let's talk about, then, what makes something cheap and
what makes something expensive.
So, if you would, since we'renot talking about milk, eggs and
bread, we got that out of theway.
We know we're not talking aboutthings that have a an
understood value, because we allknow those stories.
We talked about the bananataped to the wall, and there was
(22:55):
somebody else who I I learnedabout that made these, these
pieces of art out of garbagebags and, um, out of like
grocery store paper bags and allof this stuff.
There's cool stuff, okay, andthese pieces were going for like
thirty thousand dollars.
All right, so we'reunderstanding, we're in
agreement now that what we'reactually selling isn't actually
(23:16):
the thing and you always say youshould talk, you should do a
quick little story about your.
Mak (23:21):
You've this tiny little piece.
It's like, interestingly enough, another martini glass, but
that was done.
That was done in Paris.
Valerie (23:30):
Yes.
Mak (23:31):
I love this little piece.
Oh, yeah, and it's anothergreat story.
So sorry, I know we're gettinga lot of artists.
Valerie (23:35):
Who is a friend of mine , great story.
So sorry, I know we're gettingan artist who is a friend of
mine.
She was in paris and she drewthese pieces of art at a paris
cafe.
And then they're.
They're simple drawings,they're sketches really.
But I paid several hundreddollars for this sketch because
(23:57):
I was subscribing to this ideaof I am someone who wants that.
I want to take who I am and sayI am a person who values this,
the story of that.
I wanted to live that assomebody who drew this sketch in
a Parisian cafe.
It was about the story.
(24:18):
It's about what thatrepresented to me.
Mak (24:20):
And that piece is significantly smaller than the
Leanne Ford piece.
Oh, it's very small but wasmuch more expensive.
But I can tell you this, theywere probably about the same
amount of time to make both ofthese, and so the overall point
here is you have to get the ideaof some kind of structured
(24:42):
reason for pricing out of yourhead completely.
It can't be about the time, itcan't be about the size, it
can't be about the materials orthe commodity.
Valerie (24:50):
Right.
So what makes something cheapand what makes something
expensive?
In fact, this is a non-question, because if you lined up 10
people and you said, okay, whatmakes this cheap, what makes
this expensive?
Everybody is going to have adifferent opinion, and often
(25:11):
artists get in this place ofpricing something to try to
appease somebody or try to makethem think that this is what it
should be.
But we all have our differingviews on this when it comes to
everything, because it all comesdown to what that person values
.
So, like us, we really love nicehotels.
(25:34):
We like that is valuable to us.
So if you would I'm not evengoing to name numbers because it
doesn't matter If you would saya certain number that is a
night at a hotel, we might say,oh, that's a great deal, sign me
up.
That sounds good.
But to somebody who doesn'tappreciate that, like we have
friends and people in our familywho are basically like, why
(25:55):
would you invest in a hotel onyour vacation?
All you do is sleep there.
I want the cheapest, just Iwant a bed and that's it.
So then you would give themthat same number that we pay for
a night in a hotel and theywould go oh, my goodness, that
is expensive.
I would never do that, and Ithink that, as we're saying this
, you can probably think ofexamples of things that maybe
(26:17):
you value, that you find to begood deals, or you consider that
to be cheap because of whatyou're getting for that.
Mak (26:24):
And you know, I think another really good example of
this is, you know, organic foodversus non-organic food.
At a grocery store.
There are some people whoreally value organic food
because it says something aboutthem, who really value organic
food because it says somethingabout them, who they are,
whatever that might be.
And so you're willing to paysometimes 30%, 40%, 50% more, in
(26:45):
some cases 100% more for thesame thing as something that
isn't organic.
But to the person who doesn'tcare about that doesn't resonate
with that.
The price is way too high.
Valerie (26:57):
They would say it's not worth it because it's a value
thing always value, always,always value, and it can go down
to something literally being acouple dollars, oh yeah, and
you're going to have somebodysay, nope, that's not worth it.
Like the app, you're gonna playwords with friends with the ads
, because if you don't valuethat, then that is going to feel
(27:21):
like it's expensive.
And the best, the great thingabout it, it's different for
everybody.
Mak (27:26):
Everyone is different.
Valerie (27:27):
So let's release ourselves from that and
recognize this is an issue ofvalue and not everybody is going
to value the same things.
You have somebody who doesn'tvalue a piece of original art.
They want to go to Target.
Okay, that's fine, that's them,that's what they value.
(27:50):
Guess what you don't have totalk to them, you don't have to
price for them.
And that brings me to the pointof all of this is that you get
to decide where you want to live, what you want to play in, who
you want to call in the personthat you want to make your
customer and collector.
(28:11):
You get to decide that andplant that value for yourself,
stand strong in that value andthen call in that person.
Mak (28:21):
You, your job is not to appease the other people who
don't value those things and sooften you know, one of the
tricky parts about pricing thatartists run into is they talk to
their friends or their familyor their fellow artist friends
and they say I'm thinking aboutcharging this or that or
whatever, and they allow all ofthe opinions of these people to
(28:47):
filter in to what you're goingto charge.
But the truth is that hasnothing to do with you or your
potential buyer.
You're letting the opinion andrestrictions and all of that
value that has been created inthe minds of other people
determine your outcome, what youwant to do, and that will not
(29:11):
help you in any way, shape orform.
Some people might say, oh yeah,charge X and it seems really
high.
And some people might say Iwould never pay more than $10
for that.
You can't operate listening toeither.
You have to do what feels goodinside of you.
Valerie (29:25):
You will rise and fall and second guess on the pricing
and, knowing this too, part ofthis game is rejection.
Guess what?
Because it's an original,there's one that means it is
made for one person.
(29:45):
This means, by setting a price,you are automatically going to
exclude a number of people whothat is not for, and that can be
really scary.
That can be something that thatrequires courage to plant a
flag and say this is what I'msaying, the value is, and in
(30:07):
doing that, you know that you'resaying this is not for you, if,
if you are not into that, butbut that act of courage is the
thing.
That is what is required, Iwould say, to do this, to set
values, to sell your work.
Mak (30:26):
And beyond courage, which it definitely takes, you have to
keep in mind that you have tojust know that rejection is part
of it and not take itpersonally, because the the
value is in is in it's on themIf.
If the buyer says, no, that'stoo much, or I wasn't planning
(30:49):
on that, or whatever, thatdoesn't mean that your piece is
still not valuable or not good.
So many people associatewhether someone buys something
or not based on the quality, thefact the person showed interest
in it.
That means they like it.
It just doesn't mean that whereyou value the piece and what
they're willing to pay, thatjust doesn't align and you
(31:11):
witness this every single day inyour life.
And I'll give an example.
We have family members who willnot rent a movie on Apple TV
because six bucks is too muchmoney to rent a movie at home.
They just won't do it and wedon't understand that.
Because that's a cheap night,that's a great night.
In Six bucks let's rent themovie, let's watch it, let's all
(31:32):
enjoy it.
It doesn't mean that the movieis bad or that the service Apple
provides is bad or anything.
It just means in their mind,spending $6 to watch a movie at
home is not the same value as itis to Val and me, who would
spend six bucks to watch a movieat home.
And that's how, you have toremember, people are looking at
buying anything that they buy.
(31:53):
It's always a value issue.
It is, and so it doesn't meanthat your painting isn't worth
it.
It just means it didn't alignwith the buyer.
That's it.
So when you start to look atrejection that way, it changes.
Valerie (32:04):
Right, and I will just give a little plug again,
because being in a community ofpeople who are also going
through this is so powerful,because they are very real human
emotions of rejection.
You're the artist.
You're putting your heart morethan out on your sleeve.
You're putting your heart outthere and having it walk around
and that can become heavy.
(32:26):
We can get bogged down withwhat that feels like.
So having people in your corner, having people in your ear
saying, no, this is what we'redoing.
Let's look at this with alightness.
Let's test this, let's try somedifferent things.
It's so, so powerful.
Mak (32:44):
And I was going to say that and we're going to walk through
all that with you.
So if this right now is likethere's, probably you could be
feeling inside like a welling up, like, oh my goodness, this is
also, it seems, feels so scary.
That's what we're going to dofor you in the course.
We're going to walk alongsideof you and help you through this
, because it is a big stepmentally and emotionally for a
(33:04):
lot of people.
We understand that.
Valerie (33:06):
So basically what it is boiling down to when you are
thinking of setting your prices,if you are pricing in a way to
appease someone, that's not agood path to be going on.
But you get to decide and we'regoing to workshop all of this
together in the course to reallyhelp do this.
(33:27):
But what I want to say is allowyourself the space to get quiet
and really think about whatwould feel so good to you to get
, what would just light you up.
Because here's the other thingI want to say, and we talked
about this in the last episodethe idea of selling something
(33:50):
and buying something is anenergetic exchange.
It's this beautiful cycle.
It's not that you sold somethingand took something from
somebody else.
No, you're giving themsomething.
You're giving them that energyand that feeling that they want,
that they value, and it feelsso good to them and it feels
good to you.
But what happens if it doesn'tfeel good to you?
(34:12):
Because you undervalued it, youdiscounted it like crazy.
You were afraid becausesomebody said, well, that's way
expensive.
And then you said, oh, I'll doit for half.
And then you got that sale Does.
And visualize it that you put aprice out there and there is
(34:39):
somebody with like the biggestsmile on their face, like we did
with Lee and Ford's store, andwe're like here's my hundred
dollars you know, basicallywaving it in the air, smiling
the whole way home.
Think about that exchange andyou got what you wanted.
You got what feels good.
How are you going to show up?
You're going to package thatpiece with glee.
You're going to be putting ittogether.
(35:00):
You're going to be smiling thewhole way to the post office and
that is that's what you want.
This is, this is your life.
Doing this is to enhance yourlife and make you feel good, not
to take away.
Mak (35:15):
The energetic exchange should be cyclical and beautiful
when it's aligned and you havereceived this feeling in your
life many times before whetherand I'll use an expensive item
as an example, but you know,like you see, that I don't.
You know if it's, maybe it's agucci bag or even a new set of
of of, you know, if you pastel areally expensive set of pastels
(35:38):
or you say, okay, I really wantthat item, and even if you save
up for it or whatever, in themoment that you make that
purchase, you you feel over themoon.
You walk into Gucci and you'relike I'm taking that bag.
Or you finally make that orderonline for the new paint set or
(35:59):
whatever it is, and it might be500 or a thousand dollars or
whatever, and you, but in thatmoment you feel so good, it
feels amazing, and that'sactually what you're buying.
You're buying that feeling,that of of like.
You know, like, for me, I loveeating out, going to, like,
finding like a Michelin starrestaurant and it's like I'll,
(36:19):
I'll, I'll pay that moneybecause I love that experience,
I love that feeling.
I'm happy when they hand me thebill because this was like an
exciting, fun thing that I did.
I'm paying for that feeling.
Yeah, the food was great.
Valerie (36:33):
But if it was just about getting your belly full,
go to McDonald's, right, it'slike you're a smoker.
Mak (36:40):
So that's what you have to keep in mind that feeling that
you have felt when you've madethat big purchase, or a purchase
.
It doesn't have to be a big one, just something you've always
wanted, maybe a book you've beenwanting to read for a while,
and you finally go buy it.
In that moment it feels greatand even sometimes a little bit
later you still love the item.
But after the high of buying ithas gone away, you go.
(37:02):
You still love the item, butreally it was that moment of
purchase that was so excitingand that is what you are selling
.
You are selling that moment forpeople.
Valerie (37:12):
And that's part of the invitation that selling is,
which we talked about last time.
That selling is really justopening that up as an invitation
to say, hey, I'm available forthis, let's do this, let's
connect in this way, let's havethis exchange happen, which is
really cool and cool to be partof All right.
So, really practical stuff.
We want to give you a checklist, almost, of questions to ask
(37:38):
yourself.
When you've arrived at a priceyou feel like, oh, this would
feel really really good, and sohere's a list of questions that
you can ask yourself to help youreally land on what that should
be.
Mak (37:51):
And, by the way, there is no right or wrong price.
This is how you look at,because every single, every
single person listening rightnow is going to have a different
price.
Valerie (38:01):
You might be saying fifty dollars is your price
because you yourself have adifferent view of what's cheap
and what's correct correct, butyou also might be listening
right now and going.
Mak (38:08):
you know what I really think.
Five thousand dollars is what Iwant Beautiful, either way.
Both prices are correct, aslong as inside the moment that
that purchase is made, youactually feel lit up and feel
really good, and that's whatVal's about to go over.
Valerie (38:26):
Right, you have to align with that price, because
if you are aligned, if you aremisaligned in the other way too,
if people like us, if they say,well, that should be a thousand
dollars, and you just, in yourgut, you're like, you know,
beyond the fear of that.
If there's a moment whereyou're like, oh, I would love
that, but I'm afraid that'sdifferent than just saying, oh,
(38:48):
no, no, I'm just not alignedwith that.
You really it's a lesson inlistening to yourself.
Mak (38:53):
And I want to say too, how many people are in the world,
like how many billions of people?
I never get that number right.
There is a buyer at every pricefor everything, and I just want
to put that out there.
Somebody bought that bananathat was duct taped to a wall
for a million dollars orwhatever it was.
So there is a buyer at everyprice.
(39:15):
Just because they might not bein your immediate circle of
friends or family doesn't meanthat person doesn't exist.
It doesn't mean that the first10 people you talk to will be
that person, but there is abuyer at every price.
Think about the billions ofpeople, how many people there
are in the world.
It's incredible, right.
Valerie (39:32):
All right.
So the first question to askyourself is is it a number that
makes me feel excited and kindof tingly inside, versus the
feeling of a little bit let down, a little bit like, oh, that's
nice, but I feel like, oh, Idon't know, it's a little safe?
(39:54):
So those two feelings askyourself, is this a number that
makes me excited, that you wouldwant to like jump out of bed
and package this thing up andyou are so excited to take it to
them because you're just likelit up about it?
So ask yourself that questionbecause I think a lot of artists
(40:16):
, and a lot of artists that Italk to default more to the
appeasing.
Let me discount this.
I don't want to upset anybodykind of a realm and you got to
get real honest with yourself ofhow does that feel inside.
The second question is if Iwould get busy in this or if I
(40:38):
would start selling these piecesevery day.
Is that sustainable?
If you are going to take yourtime although we don't want a
price based on necessarily hoursspent of making the art it's
more about can you physically do?
it Can you physically do it andis it sustainable to your art
practice?
Even, are you able to buy whatyou need and buy what you want?
(41:02):
To continue in our practice andmake it sustainable, if you
would get busy, do you have tohire more child care?
Is that going to cover thatchild care If you would get busy
?
And then you, when you say yesto something, you say no to
something else.
So what is that exchange?
Is that in an appropriate valuefor that exchange if you were
(41:25):
to get busy?
The third question is thiscontributing to a life that I
want, what is success to you?
You get to pick again with allof this.
You get to decide what that isto you.
Are you going into this sayingI want to be able to pay for my
family's vacations, I want tomove to being a full-time artist
(41:50):
or whatever it is?
What is the life that you want?
Do you want to go on vacationsto the south of France?
Mak (41:58):
like I do.
Valerie (42:00):
What do you want?
What do you want in life, andis this contributing to that
life that you want?
Because, again, when you sayyes to something, you're saying
no to something else.
So, overall, is this feelinggood?
Is this contributing to thelife that I want to have?
Mak (42:15):
Yeah, and that is really a great exercise to start with,
and I know for a lot of peopleit can feel uncomfortable.
But if you would take 30minutes to sit down and get
quiet with yourself and evenhave a piece of paper and write
down a number, what is a number?
How much money do you want tomake selling your art over the
(42:37):
next year, over the next 12months?
Or do you have a goal?
I want to take the family toParis for Christmas next year?
I want to take the kids toDisney World, or is it?
Hey, I just want to be able tocover the cost of our car
payments every month.
(43:02):
Whatever your goal is, sit down,write that down and actually
get real with yourself for aminute, close your eyes and
think what do I want, what feelsgood, what would light me up?
And so few of us, so few of us,take that much time to think
about ourselves and what we wantand what would make us feel
good.
And it almost can getuncomfortable.
(43:23):
You could write down $5,000over the next year.
You could write down $5 million, but knowing that is a really
good starting point for helpingyou understand what will help
light you up and make you feeltingly and make you feel good
when it comes to pricing yourart moving forward.
Valerie (43:41):
Yeah.
And then the last question toask am I calling forward the
customer that I want?
Are you pricing for the personwho wants to get their art at
HomeGoods and are you trying toappease that customer?
Who is the customer that youare calling forward?
And are you calling forward thecustomer that you want to have?
(44:05):
If you're doing commissions,are you calling forward the
person who trusts you, theperson who is paying you a lot
of money?
They're paying you the moneythat is a high value, so they're
going to be hands off with youand they're like we want you to
do your thing.
Are you calling forward theperson who is going to more
(44:27):
micromanage you Like?
What type of person are youcalling in?
And are you calling in theperson that you want to call in
with that price?
Mak (44:35):
And I want to say right now too, if any of this is again
starting to make you feel alittle uncomfortable or you're
having second guessing, you'resaying, oh, this sounds a little
crazy for me.
That's something that youshould really dig into, because
this is going to be a littleuncomfortable, because it's a
new way of thinking about,something that has sort of been
(44:56):
standardized or whatever that'sbeen in your mind for a long
time.
But let me tell you somethingthere are thousands of people
selling art and having a careerand feeling really good about it
every day, who are successful,pricing their art in a way that
makes them feel good and feelhappy.
So if the old way of doing itis comfortable for you right now
(45:18):
and you're feeling a littleskeptical about everything that
we're saying, I think you shouldtake a moment and really,
really evaluate that.
Valerie (45:27):
And in this conversation too, you get to
test, you get to play with it.
This exploration intoartpreneurship is another wing
of your creativity.
Let's play.
Let's play a game.
Let's see what happens.
Let's try this.
How did that feel?
That felt good, that didn'tfeel so good.
Let's move and try and testthings and test things, and the
(46:01):
beauty of doing that is there'sno right and wrong.
It's just like as you arecreating the work, you're
flowing through it and you'reletting it be, this
experimentation of what unfoldsand that's even part of the goal
setting and everything andknowing what it is that you want
, but yet, at the same time,you're not holding on to that
outcome so tightly.
You're able to play in it andtest it and change and adapt and
(46:24):
see how it feels and be on thisjourney, which can be really
exciting, instead of the typicalcliches that we hear.
Mak (46:34):
So, if all of this is something that you are or you're
feeling and you're excitedabout, or even you're more
curious about diving into, thisis what we're going to be
covering in the course beginningin January.
But this is, let me tell yousomething, this is like a quick
flyover of this topic.
This topic is so much deeperand there's definitely some
(46:57):
mindset, work and things thatneed to go into it before we get
into that, and so we're goingto cover all of that in the
course beginning in January andwe want you to come along with
us and we want you to know thatwe're going to come alongside
you and that community of peoplewill be alongside you.
So if this sounds really scary,that's okay, Because Valerie
(47:19):
and I have created this courseto be a safe place where you can
experiment and talk to us andinteract with us and other
people in the community to helpyou through this process.
So if it's feeling scary,that's normal, but that's also
good, because we only grow andimprove and get better when
(47:41):
we're uncomfortable.
Valerie (47:43):
And knowing that there's so much that goes into
it because if this has uncoveredthis idea of this is value, not
price then how do we conveyvalue?
How do we tell your story in away that resonates?
How do you show up in the wayyou present your art and
marketing your art?
That is going to build thatvalue.
(48:04):
That all becomes part of thisconversation that we're not even
touching on right now, but thatis something that all becomes
part of the creativity that isbeing an entrepreneur and having
somebody and a group of peopleto be able to go through that
honestly creative journey with,to say, well, I tried this and
(48:26):
this doesn't work and I'm notgetting this and I'm feeling bad
about this, and kind of takingthat swirl of thought and being
able to have it land in a groupand in a container where we can
all help each other.
I think that's really a hugepart of what the journey is
going to be.
Mak (48:44):
And one of the big things that Val and I both believe in
strongly and I take my coachingclients through this and you and
I talk about this all the timeis this concept of failing fast.
And what I tell my clients allthe time is this concept of
failing fast.
And what I tell my clients allthe time is look, our goal isn't
to spend a ton of time buildingsomething and then release it,
only to find out it's not quiteperfect, because no one has ever
(49:04):
done that in the history ofselling anything.
It just hasn't happened.
People, they constantly tweak.
So what we want to do and whatyou want to do, is try to fail
fast.
And that's why having thesupport, because the first three
months of the course but thenyou get essentially like three
additional months for free thatare us supporting you in the
community, supporting you.
So because we're not going toget the story quite right the
(49:25):
first time and you're not goingto have a sale right out of the
gate and it's going to take sometime, but over time you're
going to build that muscle andall of a sudden it's going to
get easier and easier and you'regoing to feel so much better
about it, and that, again, iswhy we structured the course
this way, and one of the bigthings which we're tackling in
the next episode tomorrow on thepodcast is I know you're saying
(49:48):
okay, val, it's super easy foryou to sell because you have
this big social media audienceand you have this big following.
Oh yeah, leanne Ford, she cansell because she's super famous.
So tomorrow we're going todispel all of that and we're
going to be talking about how tosell your art right away
without an audience.
How can you right now, withwhatever your audience is I
(50:11):
don't care if it's 100 followerson Instagram and no email list
or thousands of followers howcan you start selling art right
now without an audience?
We're going to help you workthrough that.
Valerie (50:22):
I'm so excited to be back.
I feel like we love havingthese conversations.
This is such a privilege to bewith you to be talking about
this, so thank you so much forlistening.
I hope that you had some keytakeaways, some ahas, from this
episode and if so, please let usknow.
Please DM me.
(50:43):
My DMs are open at ValerieMcKeon on Instagram.
I would love to hear if therewas something that really was
maybe a breakthrough for you asa takeaway in this episode.
Mak (50:54):
And, of course, don't forget that there is an early
bird special right now for thecourse.
That's going to be good throughthe weekend.
It's a significant savings, andthen you get those three bonus
calls over the next two monthsbefore the course starts in
January, which has a really highvalue.
You get all of that for free.
So if this is feeling likesomething you might be
(51:14):
interested in doing, then pleasevisit ValerieMcKeoncom.
Slash sell with peace.
No capitals, no spaces, all oneword sell with peace.
All the details and all theinformation is available there
and if you have questions asyou're hearing this and you're
not quite sure, you can alwaysemail us to support at
(51:34):
ValerieMcKeoncom and we'llanswer all your questions.
We'll be getting back to youright away and help you
understand.
Whatever questions you have.
We'll answer to the best of ourability.
Valerie (51:46):
All right, everybody.
We will see you again tomorrow.
Bye.
I am so excited to be back with you today having
another conversation about art,about entrepreneurship.
It is going to be so good.
My name is Valerie McKen.
You are listening to thePeaceful, Creative Podcast.
I'm joined today by my husband,again Mac.
Mak (00:23):
Hello.
Valerie (00:24):
And we are going to continue having the conversation
that we started in the lastepisode, so if you haven't yet
listened to that, I recommenddoing it.
We dove into the idea ofmindset when it comes to
starting an art business,selling your work, being an
artpreneur.
(00:44):
What are some of these mindsetbarriers that we have to doing
that?
So I recommend checking thatout.
But today we are continuingthat conversation into the most
asked about topic.
Over my entire career I've beengetting this question.
(01:04):
It is all about pricing and wehave some philosophies around
that.
That's really going to help you.
Before we get into that, Iwanted to remind you of what we
have going on right now, whichis the launch of our newest
course called the PeacefulArtpreneur.
Mak (01:24):
And we're so excited to be doing this because it's the
first time Valerie and I haveteamed up together to do a
course.
But it's super exciting becausewe're finally answering all the
questions that, as Valmentioned a moment ago, have
been asked of her and I over thelast 10, 15 years of selling
millions and millions of dollarsworth of art across the two
(01:47):
businesses that we have created,and we just felt like it was
time, and so we're ready to divein together with you.
This is not a here's, a bunchof modules, go off on your own
and do it, kind of course.
What I'm personally reallyexcited about is that we're
going to do this with you.
We're going to hold your hand,you're going to have plenty of
(02:10):
opportunities throughout thecourse to be able to get in a
hot seat or ask us questions andrespond, and we're literally
going to build this coursearound all of the participants
as it's going on.
So it's super exciting.
Valerie (02:23):
Because Mac, how many courses do you think we've
purchased?
That just sat on the computer,just a bunch of modules and
throughout our entireentrepreneurial journey, which
started back in 2008?
Together, together, yeah.
I feel like having thatcontainer where we could
(02:45):
actually ask a question or say,hey, that worked for you, that's
great, but is that going towork for me?
And how can I fit into this?
Because you are unique and,just as your art and creativity
is unique, the way that you wantto show up to this whole idea
of selling is unique.
Mak (03:04):
And I feel like you hit the nail on the head.
I think we've had so manydiscussions over the years about
people who come out, theyfigure out a way to make it work
for them and then they come outand act like an expert.
What works for them is one sizefits all and it works for
everybody, and that's just nottrue of anything.
Okay, so Elon Musk can sendrockets into space and build
(03:27):
electric cars.
If he came out with a course onhow to do that, I don't
necessarily think that I wouldbe sending rockets into space in
five years.
So that's why we wanted tobuild this course this way,
where it is not a dialogue orit's not a monologue.
It's a dialogue.
We work together, we help youunderstand your strengths and
develop your strengths and lookat all of the talent that will
(03:50):
be part of this, and we can worktogether to build a plan for
you, specifically using theprinciples that we have come up
with over doing this and sellingmillions of dollars worth of
art over the last 10 to 15 years.
Valerie (04:02):
All in a community, which I think is the beautiful
thing about it too.
I think artists, we tend to bea little more nervous, maybe
sometimes about being in a grouplike that, being in a community
.
But the power of that havingsomebody else that says, hey,
I'm walking through this too,I'm doing this too, we're doing
(04:26):
it together, we're encouragingeach other, we're supporting one
another, being with others inthat way where you don't have to
go at it alone, is so important, and it's going to be the
reason why you actually makechange and do something
differently, because we all canslip back into our old ways of
doing things.
(04:47):
We might have aspirations or wehave things that we say we want
to do, and often the differencebetween actually doing it and
not doing it is theaccountability and having other
people that you are surroundingyourself with who are doing the
same thing.
Mak (05:02):
So, whether you have never sold an art piece in your life
at any level, or you've beenselling art, but maybe not at
the level you want to, or youhave questions, this course is
for you and I know up to thispoint too.
Everything that we have put outValerie has put out in terms of
(05:26):
her courses and her memberships, and everything has all been
specific to artists in themedium of soft pastel, because
that is your fine art medium.
But this course is not softpastel specific.
This is for anyone who, anyartist, who's creating?
anything you have, mostly visualartists know if you're
(05:47):
listening to this and you foundthis and you see that Val's all
about soft pastel, that's true,and that's her form of art.
But this is for everybody andright now is is the best time to
get going.
We're releasing this series ofpodcasts the beginning of
November, but we have an earlybird special that is available
right now and it's onlyavailable for the next several
(06:09):
days and then the price will goup.
So make sure you check all ofthat out.
We'll put a link in the shownotes, but it's ValerieMcKeoncom
slash sell with peace.
No capitals, no spaces oranything, just ValerieMcKeoncom
slash sell with peace.
For all the details.
Valerie (06:26):
And if you're thinking, okay, I'm going into this busy
time of year we know holidaysare coming.
December is crazy.
The course officially kicks offin January.
So we're going to be hittingthe ground running in January.
But when you purchase now, whenyou become part of the course
now, there are bonuses that youare going to receive in November
(06:47):
and December.
So, although we're going toofficially kick off, you don't
have to wait.
You can prepare yourself sothat you are ready to go.
You're in that zone, you'realready.
Just just ready.
So we are going to be doingthree bonus calls.
There's going to be a pricingmaster class call that's going
(07:07):
to really jump off of what we'regoing to cover in today's
episode.
There's going to be a holidaysales boot camp where you can
even start to make some salesnow, in the time when people are
ready to buy.
You could even pay for theprice of the course before it
even starts in january.
And then we're going to bedoing a vision casting workshop
with creating a vision board andhow we like to approach that
(07:30):
idea of goal setting in a waythat is very life-giving.
The whole idea with the peacefulentrepreneur that a lot of
people come at these topics likethis is hard work and you
better hunker down and struggleand all of this.
That's a very strong culturalmessaging.
But we want to say this gets tobe fun and creative and feel
(07:54):
good and you get to have a lifethat you want to have.
You get to go after thesedreams and, yes, there are parts
that we have to overcome ourold ways of thinking and that
can get uncomfortable, but atthe same time, we are all going
for this idea of having a lifethat you love and this gets to
be part of it.
(08:14):
So, if that is something, if theidea of selling your work, if
it is even a dream that you have, like, oh, someday I would love
that, but I don't know howthat's possible for me.
Maybe you're not even.
Maybe you are chomping at thebit and you're like, oh, someday
I would love that, but I don'tknow how that's possible for me.
Maybe you're not even.
Maybe you are chomping at thebit and you're like, I'm ready,
let's go.
But maybe you're saying, oh, Idon't know if I'm ready, I don't
know if I'm worthy of this, Idon't know.
I want to encourage you tostill check it out, because
(08:37):
you're probably more ready thanyou think you are, and we would
just love to have you be part ofthis kick off the new year 2025
in this way.
Mak (08:49):
And so all of those bonuses are only available if you sign
up before the deadline, the endof the week.
So again, check that out.
You get all of that for free.
You get to start right away ifyou want to.
And one other thing I wanted tosay is about you were talking
about the busy time of year.
But people are.
(09:09):
We're all just busy in general.
You and I, we have two girlsfive and almost two and we're
running two businesses and thislife is crazy, and so we get it.
We're're not gonna fire hoseyou in this course.
We have developed it in a waythat it will be fun, it will be
(09:31):
light-hearted and it won't takeup a hundred hours of your time.
You know it will be.
It will be.
It will just be a lot of fun,and we understand how busy you
are.
So we're gonna give youeverything, everything that you
need to get going in your artlife and in your art business,
if you want to call it that, butwithout you having to dedicate
(09:52):
like a crazy, crazy amount oftime.
Valerie (09:55):
Yeah, so today we are with you for the next, I guess,
four days now, including today.
Including today.
We're going to continue withthis series of really tackling
some of these big topics thatwe're going to be covering in
the course, but just giving youan idea of ways that you can use
(10:17):
this information right now, andwe think you'll walk away with
a lot of takeaways.
Today, the focus is on settinga price.
Mak (10:27):
This is the big one.
This is what everybody wants toknow.
Valerie (10:30):
Okay, let's level set here.
What are you actually sellingas an artist?
Let's start there with thatquestion.
Mak (10:40):
I'll be the artist for a second Paper, canvas, paint and
my time.
Valerie (10:49):
Incorrect?
No, how often do we hear that,though, where maybe you have
heard these ideas of pricingyour work where it's like, well,
how much did your materialscost?
And then, well, your time, andthen divide that by this and
multiply by this, and and we'respeaking here specifically to
(11:11):
those who are selling originalart.
Now, of course, there are otherways to sell art.
There are product manufacturing.
we have done, we've done it all,we've done all of it licensing
product manufacturing we've doneoverseas manufacturing, we've
done domestic manufacturing,we've done all of it.
Licensing product manufacturingWe've done overseas
manufacturing, we've donedomestic manufacturing, we've
done print on demand.
Print on demand.
I mean all of it, but thisspecifically for this
conversation.
(11:31):
Let's talk about original art,and what is it that you are
selling.
Mak (11:36):
Frankly, I think we should start there, because that's the
best place to start.
We tend to, when we get intodoing something new, we over
complicate things because of afear of starting.
So we, we, this is a naturalhuman instinct instead of
starting, we come up with all ofthese things, these checklists,
(11:56):
all this stuff we have to do,and it's really, deep down, a
subconscious way to avoidgetting started.
So if, if your natural instinctis well, I can't start because
I need a logo and I need awebsite and I need to change all
of this stuff and I need tofind a printer and I need to do
this and I need to do that, no,you could literally sell a piece
of original art that you havein your portfolio today and
(12:18):
actually make money todaywithout any of that stuff.
So that's why we're choosing tostart with selling originals.
Valerie (12:24):
Yeah.
So what are you selling then?
If you're not selling the painton a canvas, you're not selling
the paper, it's art.
You are selling air, you'reselling energy.
You're selling a feeling.
You're selling somebody's joy,that you're selling them a
(12:48):
feeling of peace.
It is.
This is one of my favoritethings to talk about.
Just as a side note for thosewho know me, I can go on and on
about this.
But art, it's the mystery ofart, of art.
(13:10):
Why is it that you can stand infront of a piece of art and,
just inexplicably, you'rebrought to tears.
Something washes over you, thatyou feel compelled and drawn
toward it, and it's differentfor everybody.
I've had a piece of art in myhome, for example, and my
mother-in-law I rememberspecifically she's like that's
(13:31):
bad.
Do you remember that it was apiece of?
It was a watercolor, and she'slike that is not technically
good at all, but I loved it.
And I think we have thoseexperiences of art.
Where is it the mosttechnically proficient thing?
And I teach that.
When I teach artists to paint,it's like, yeah, we want to have
(13:51):
enough technical abilities tobe able to materialize something
, but at the end of the day, themagic is the mystery, the magic
is the energy of it and how ittouches you, how it makes you
think, how it makes you maybefeel unsettled, maybe it makes
you feel a little melancholy, orthere's just something about it
(14:14):
.
You can't put your finger on it.
That's all forms of art, buteven the visual art.
It really is this magical,mystical way of creation, how
and how we relate to one anotheras human beings, how it
connects us, how words fail, butwe have art to be able to say
(14:37):
things that we didn't even know,that we needed to say or needed
a release of.
I could go on and on and onabout this, but my point being
in this conversation, thatthat's what you're selling.
You are selling a connection toanother human being, that they
(14:58):
are saying yes to how this pieceis making them feel, to how
this piece is making them feel,and to me that's the magic of
original art, because we could,you know, it could break down to
the colors that somebody wantsin their home and this is what
fits their space, and we havethat going into it as well, but
(15:22):
really going into it as well.
But really, these pieces thatspeak to somebody.
Mak (15:31):
What is that value?
What is that worth?
Yeah, absolutely, it's 100%, anenergetic exchange in value.
100%.
It has nothing to do with thematerial or the time or actually
the physical energy that youput into a piece.
There are pieces I always thinkabout the Billy Joel example
(15:54):
and that is New York State ofMind.
He wrote that song in like 25minutes on a Greyhound bus home
from LA.
He got home he went up to thepiano he said the whole song
took him like 25 minutes towrite.
And now that is one of the mostfamous Billy Joel songs of all
(16:15):
time.
It's been covered more than anyother song he's ever written
and everybody knows that songand when you listen to it I
don't care where you are, what'sgoing on, you feel like you're
in New York.
It was the energy.
So that song, in terms ofphysical return on investment,
he's made way more money on thatsong than songs that he put
(16:36):
days or weeks into writing.
Valerie (16:39):
And because his energy was aligned and that song
touched everybody who listenedto it, there's so much that I
want to say on this topic,because this is we talked about
some blocks, some mindset issuesin the last episode and another
one that we didn't talk about.
But another one is that somepeople have this feeling that it
(17:00):
has to be hard in order to makemoney, and I think artists fall
into that sometimes, and thisis maybe why we have these
cliches of the suffering,struggling artists, because we
have this subconscious beliefthat you have to prove and earn.
And if it, if I didn't put myblood, sweat and tears into this
piece, how can I charge realmoney for that?
(17:21):
But guess what you can.
And I want to tell a story thatI love telling this story
because where we used to live inPittsburgh, we lived in the
same place of Leanne Ford, theHGTV designer, and we went into
one of her stores that was thislike cool buck mason hybrid of a
(17:44):
store and it was really awesome.
She had these.
They weren't even paintings,honestly, they're scribbles,
they're like and they look likethey're done in like crayon or
something it's like this blackpaint and it's on the type of
paper that is um like if you goto home goods and buy a bowl,
they're gonna wrap your piece inthis type of newsprint yeah
(18:05):
right, um, and we were in thereand I was just drawn to these
pieces and I'm like oh, they'rejust, they're fun, they're bowls
and there were like 25 or 30 ofthem literally just hanging
over a railing going down to thebasement where they store
everything, right?
But I'm drawn to these for someagain unknown reason.
I'm like oh, I really likethese.
(18:25):
They were $100 each for thisscribble and it was really cool.
We were in there, we wereshopping and Leanne walked in
herself.
We hadn't met her yet and weended up getting in a
conversation with her and shesaid that's my play, that's my
fun, I love doing that and youcould feel it again.
(18:46):
It wasn't what was being said.
I was already drawn to thesethings.
And then I have her saying oh,that's my pure play.
I'm a kid again again and I'mthinking well, they're scribbles
, that makes sense.
Mak (18:58):
She freely admitted like each one took like two minutes.
Valerie (19:01):
Yeah, and guess what we did?
We pulled out our wallet andsaid thank you.
Mak (19:07):
We wanted that.
Valerie (19:07):
Here's my hundred dollars.
And guess what?
We had the biggest smiles onour face the entire time doing
it, because what that said aboutus, because what that said
about us.
We co-signed that story, thatplay, and we said we feel it too
.
Mak (19:28):
And we want a piece of that .
And I want to say now and Iwant to get this out there,
because I can hear some of youright now saying well, it's
because it's Leanne Ford, Idon't care if it was leanne ford
or some artist I had neverheard of before because we
really hadn't heard of herbefore, to be honest.
Well, I mean yeah, we're notbig tv consumers, so we weren't,
you know.
Valerie (19:49):
But we weren't big fans .
Mak (19:50):
We weren't big fans we didn't go in there looking to
run into leanne ford.
She's great and we, like you,know she's cool now.
But but my point is it couldhave been, it had nothing to do
with her.
You should see this thing, this, this, it's this fun, playful
picture of a martini glass andwe just fell in love with it.
(20:11):
It had nothing to do with her.
So we didn't say OK, it's worth100 bucks because it's Leanne
Ford.
It was worth a hundred bucksbecause it really represents
sort of our personalities.
And now it's framed and hangingin actually one of the most
prominent positions in our houseright now in Nashville, because
when people walk into the roomthey see it and you go okay,
(20:33):
these people are playful,they're fun, they're loose.
Valerie (20:37):
And it's a story.
Mak (20:38):
It's a cool story, and and so it's not because it was
leanne ford.
I want to put that out there,okay.
Valerie (20:43):
So that brings us to the next point.
If we determine, okay, what itis that we're actually selling,
you're?
You're selling air, you'reselling feelings, you're selling
joy, you're selling atransformation of somebody's
emotional environment into apiece of art that connects us.
And I could go on and on and onand on about beauty and how we
(21:04):
need it and, as humans, wethrive on it.
It's big.
You are not selling milk andeggs and bread.
Mak (21:10):
It's not a commodity.
Valerie (21:11):
That have a kind of an overarching idea of this is what
this costs.
We're not selling that.
Mak (21:19):
And so there's this like bizarre thing that we've run
across now a couple times, whereartists like, okay, well,
there's like a square inch andyou multiply the price per
square inch and that's all basedon how much success I've had as
an artist and other artistsjudged me to be worthy of
charging more because I gotthese letters behind my name.
(21:41):
Let me tell you something rightnow.
That is all superfluous.
I don't know the word.
What am I saying?
Superfluous, superfluous.
You know what I'm trying to say.
That doesn't matter.
That's all made up.
The square inch size of yourcanvas doesn't mean anything.
You can sell a canvas the sizeof a wall, an entire wall, for
(22:04):
$5,000 if you want, but you canalso sell a little, three by
seven, three by five, four bysix for $5,000.
Also, it has nothing to do withit.
What it has to do with is theenergy, the value, the story,
what you put into it and what itfeels good coming back to you.
Valerie (22:23):
Right, it is all the value.
Mak (22:26):
Superfluous.
There it is Superfluous.
I wasn't going to not get thatright, okay, sorry.
Valerie (22:34):
Let's talk about, then, what makes something cheap and
what makes something expensive.
So, if you would, since we'renot talking about milk, eggs and
bread, we got that out of theway.
We know we're not talking aboutthings that have a an
understood value, because we allknow those stories.
We talked about the bananataped to the wall, and there was
(22:55):
somebody else who I I learnedabout that made these, these
pieces of art out of garbagebags and, um, out of like
grocery store paper bags and allof this stuff.
There's cool stuff, okay, andthese pieces were going for like
thirty thousand dollars.
All right, so we'reunderstanding, we're in
agreement now that what we'reactually selling isn't actually
(23:16):
the thing and you always say youshould talk, you should do a
quick little story about your.
Mak (23:21):
You've this tiny little piece.
It's like, interestingly enough, another martini glass, but
that was done.
That was done in Paris.
Valerie (23:30):
Yes.
Mak (23:31):
I love this little piece.
Oh, yeah, and it's anothergreat story.
So sorry, I know we're gettinga lot of artists.
Valerie (23:35):
Who is a friend of mine , great story.
So sorry, I know we're gettingan artist who is a friend of
mine.
She was in paris and she drewthese pieces of art at a paris
cafe.
And then they're.
They're simple drawings,they're sketches really.
But I paid several hundreddollars for this sketch because
(23:57):
I was subscribing to this ideaof I am someone who wants that.
I want to take who I am and sayI am a person who values this,
the story of that.
I wanted to live that assomebody who drew this sketch in
a Parisian cafe.
It was about the story.
(24:18):
It's about what thatrepresented to me.
Mak (24:20):
And that piece is significantly smaller than the
Leanne Ford piece.
Oh, it's very small but wasmuch more expensive.
But I can tell you this, theywere probably about the same
amount of time to make both ofthese, and so the overall point
here is you have to get the ideaof some kind of structured
(24:42):
reason for pricing out of yourhead completely.
It can't be about the time, itcan't be about the size, it
can't be about the materials orthe commodity.
Valerie (24:50):
Right.
So what makes something cheapand what makes something
expensive?
In fact, this is a non-question, because if you lined up 10
people and you said, okay, whatmakes this cheap, what makes
this expensive?
Everybody is going to have adifferent opinion, and often
(25:11):
artists get in this place ofpricing something to try to
appease somebody or try to makethem think that this is what it
should be.
But we all have our differingviews on this when it comes to
everything, because it all comesdown to what that person values
.
So, like us, we really love nicehotels.
(25:34):
We like that is valuable to us.
So if you would I'm not evengoing to name numbers because it
doesn't matter If you would saya certain number that is a
night at a hotel, we might say,oh, that's a great deal, sign me
up.
That sounds good.
But to somebody who doesn'tappreciate that, like we have
friends and people in our familywho are basically like, why
(25:55):
would you invest in a hotel onyour vacation?
All you do is sleep there.
I want the cheapest, just Iwant a bed and that's it.
So then you would give themthat same number that we pay for
a night in a hotel and theywould go oh, my goodness, that
is expensive.
I would never do that, and Ithink that, as we're saying this
, you can probably think ofexamples of things that maybe
(26:17):
you value, that you find to begood deals, or you consider that
to be cheap because of whatyou're getting for that.
Mak (26:24):
And you know, I think another really good example of
this is, you know, organic foodversus non-organic food.
At a grocery store.
There are some people whoreally value organic food
because it says something aboutthem, who really value organic
food because it says somethingabout them, who they are,
whatever that might be.
And so you're willing to paysometimes 30%, 40%, 50% more, in
(26:45):
some cases 100% more for thesame thing as something that
isn't organic.
But to the person who doesn'tcare about that doesn't resonate
with that.
The price is way too high.
Valerie (26:57):
They would say it's not worth it because it's a value
thing always value, always,always value, and it can go down
to something literally being acouple dollars, oh yeah, and
you're going to have somebodysay, nope, that's not worth it.
Like the app, you're gonna playwords with friends with the ads
, because if you don't valuethat, then that is going to feel
(27:21):
like it's expensive.
And the best, the great thingabout it, it's different for
everybody.
Mak (27:26):
Everyone is different.
Valerie (27:27):
So let's release ourselves from that and
recognize this is an issue ofvalue and not everybody is going
to value the same things.
You have somebody who doesn'tvalue a piece of original art.
They want to go to Target.
Okay, that's fine, that's them,that's what they value.
(27:50):
Guess what you don't have totalk to them, you don't have to
price for them.
And that brings me to the pointof all of this is that you get
to decide where you want to live, what you want to play in, who
you want to call in the personthat you want to make your
customer and collector.
(28:11):
You get to decide that andplant that value for yourself,
stand strong in that value andthen call in that person.
Mak (28:21):
You, your job is not to appease the other people who
don't value those things and sooften you know, one of the
tricky parts about pricing thatartists run into is they talk to
their friends or their familyor their fellow artist friends
and they say I'm thinking aboutcharging this or that or
whatever, and they allow all ofthe opinions of these people to
(28:47):
filter in to what you're goingto charge.
But the truth is that hasnothing to do with you or your
potential buyer.
You're letting the opinion andrestrictions and all of that
value that has been created inthe minds of other people
determine your outcome, what youwant to do, and that will not
(29:11):
help you in any way, shape orform.
Some people might say, oh yeah,charge X and it seems really
high.
And some people might say Iwould never pay more than $10
for that.
You can't operate listening toeither.
You have to do what feels goodinside of you.
Valerie (29:25):
You will rise and fall and second guess on the pricing
and, knowing this too, part ofthis game is rejection.
Guess what?
Because it's an original,there's one that means it is
made for one person.
(29:45):
This means, by setting a price,you are automatically going to
exclude a number of people whothat is not for, and that can be
really scary.
That can be something that thatrequires courage to plant a
flag and say this is what I'msaying, the value is, and in
(30:07):
doing that, you know that you'resaying this is not for you, if,
if you are not into that, butbut that act of courage is the
thing.
That is what is required, Iwould say, to do this, to set
values, to sell your work.
Mak (30:26):
And beyond courage, which it definitely takes, you have to
keep in mind that you have tojust know that rejection is part
of it and not take itpersonally, because the the
value is in is in it's on themIf.
If the buyer says, no, that'stoo much, or I wasn't planning
(30:49):
on that, or whatever, thatdoesn't mean that your piece is
still not valuable or not good.
So many people associatewhether someone buys something
or not based on the quality, thefact the person showed interest
in it.
That means they like it.
It just doesn't mean that whereyou value the piece and what
they're willing to pay, thatjust doesn't align and you
(31:11):
witness this every single day inyour life.
And I'll give an example.
We have family members who willnot rent a movie on Apple TV
because six bucks is too muchmoney to rent a movie at home.
They just won't do it and wedon't understand that.
Because that's a cheap night,that's a great night.
In Six bucks let's rent themovie, let's watch it, let's all
(31:32):
enjoy it.
It doesn't mean that the movieis bad or that the service Apple
provides is bad or anything.
It just means in their mind,spending $6 to watch a movie at
home is not the same value as itis to Val and me, who would
spend six bucks to watch a movieat home.
And that's how, you have toremember, people are looking at
buying anything that they buy.
(31:53):
It's always a value issue.
It is, and so it doesn't meanthat your painting isn't worth
it.
It just means it didn't alignwith the buyer.
That's it.
So when you start to look atrejection that way, it changes.
Valerie (32:04):
Right, and I will just give a little plug again,
because being in a community ofpeople who are also going
through this is so powerful,because they are very real human
emotions of rejection.
You're the artist.
You're putting your heart morethan out on your sleeve.
You're putting your heart outthere and having it walk around
and that can become heavy.
(32:26):
We can get bogged down withwhat that feels like.
So having people in your corner, having people in your ear
saying, no, this is what we'redoing.
Let's look at this with alightness.
Let's test this, let's try somedifferent things.
It's so, so powerful.
Mak (32:44):
And I was going to say that and we're going to walk through
all that with you.
So if this right now is likethere's, probably you could be
feeling inside like a welling up, like, oh my goodness, this is
also, it seems, feels so scary.
That's what we're going to dofor you in the course.
We're going to walk alongsideof you and help you through this
, because it is a big stepmentally and emotionally for a
(33:04):
lot of people.
We understand that.
Valerie (33:06):
So basically what it is boiling down to when you are
thinking of setting your prices,if you are pricing in a way to
appease someone, that's not agood path to be going on.
But you get to decide and we'regoing to workshop all of this
together in the course to reallyhelp do this.
(33:27):
But what I want to say is allowyourself the space to get quiet
and really think about whatwould feel so good to you to get
, what would just light you up.
Because here's the other thingI want to say, and we talked
about this in the last episodethe idea of selling something
(33:50):
and buying something is anenergetic exchange.
It's this beautiful cycle.
It's not that you sold somethingand took something from
somebody else.
No, you're giving themsomething.
You're giving them that energyand that feeling that they want,
that they value, and it feelsso good to them and it feels
good to you.
But what happens if it doesn'tfeel good to you?
(34:12):
Because you undervalued it, youdiscounted it like crazy.
You were afraid becausesomebody said, well, that's way
expensive.
And then you said, oh, I'll doit for half.
And then you got that sale Does.
And visualize it that you put aprice out there and there is
(34:39):
somebody with like the biggestsmile on their face, like we did
with Lee and Ford's store, andwe're like here's my hundred
dollars you know, basicallywaving it in the air, smiling
the whole way home.
Think about that exchange andyou got what you wanted.
You got what feels good.
How are you going to show up?
You're going to package thatpiece with glee.
You're going to be putting ittogether.
(35:00):
You're going to be smiling thewhole way to the post office and
that is that's what you want.
This is, this is your life.
Doing this is to enhance yourlife and make you feel good, not
to take away.
Mak (35:15):
The energetic exchange should be cyclical and beautiful
when it's aligned and you havereceived this feeling in your
life many times before whetherand I'll use an expensive item
as an example, but you know,like you see, that I don't.
You know if it's, maybe it's agucci bag or even a new set of
of of, you know, if you pastel areally expensive set of pastels
(35:38):
or you say, okay, I really wantthat item, and even if you save
up for it or whatever, in themoment that you make that
purchase, you you feel over themoon.
You walk into Gucci and you'relike I'm taking that bag.
Or you finally make that orderonline for the new paint set or
(35:59):
whatever it is, and it might be500 or a thousand dollars or
whatever, and you, but in thatmoment you feel so good, it
feels amazing, and that'sactually what you're buying.
You're buying that feeling,that of of like.
You know, like, for me, I loveeating out, going to, like,
finding like a Michelin starrestaurant and it's like I'll,
(36:19):
I'll, I'll pay that moneybecause I love that experience,
I love that feeling.
I'm happy when they hand me thebill because this was like an
exciting, fun thing that I did.
I'm paying for that feeling.
Yeah, the food was great.
Valerie (36:33):
But if it was just about getting your belly full,
go to McDonald's, right, it'slike you're a smoker.
Mak (36:40):
So that's what you have to keep in mind that feeling that
you have felt when you've madethat big purchase, or a purchase
.
It doesn't have to be a big one, just something you've always
wanted, maybe a book you've beenwanting to read for a while,
and you finally go buy it.
In that moment it feels greatand even sometimes a little bit
later you still love the item.
But after the high of buying ithas gone away, you go.
(37:02):
You still love the item, butreally it was that moment of
purchase that was so excitingand that is what you are selling
.
You are selling that moment forpeople.
Valerie (37:12):
And that's part of the invitation that selling is,
which we talked about last time.
That selling is really justopening that up as an invitation
to say, hey, I'm available forthis, let's do this, let's
connect in this way, let's havethis exchange happen, which is
really cool and cool to be partof All right.
So, really practical stuff.
We want to give you a checklist, almost, of questions to ask
(37:38):
yourself.
When you've arrived at a priceyou feel like, oh, this would
feel really really good, and sohere's a list of questions that
you can ask yourself to help youreally land on what that should
be.
Mak (37:51):
And, by the way, there is no right or wrong price.
This is how you look at,because every single, every
single person listening rightnow is going to have a different
price.
Valerie (38:01):
You might be saying fifty dollars is your price
because you yourself have adifferent view of what's cheap
and what's correct correct, butyou also might be listening
right now and going.
Mak (38:08):
you know what I really think.
Five thousand dollars is what Iwant Beautiful, either way.
Both prices are correct, aslong as inside the moment that
that purchase is made, youactually feel lit up and feel
really good, and that's whatVal's about to go over.
Valerie (38:26):
Right, you have to align with that price, because
if you are aligned, if you aremisaligned in the other way too,
if people like us, if they say,well, that should be a thousand
dollars, and you just, in yourgut, you're like, you know,
beyond the fear of that.
If there's a moment whereyou're like, oh, I would love
that, but I'm afraid that'sdifferent than just saying, oh,
(38:48):
no, no, I'm just not alignedwith that.
You really it's a lesson inlistening to yourself.
Mak (38:53):
And I want to say too, how many people are in the world,
like how many billions of people?
I never get that number right.
There is a buyer at every pricefor everything, and I just want
to put that out there.
Somebody bought that bananathat was duct taped to a wall
for a million dollars orwhatever it was.
So there is a buyer at everyprice.
(39:15):
Just because they might not bein your immediate circle of
friends or family doesn't meanthat person doesn't exist.
It doesn't mean that the first10 people you talk to will be
that person, but there is abuyer at every price.
Think about the billions ofpeople, how many people there
are in the world.
It's incredible, right.
Valerie (39:32):
All right.
So the first question to askyourself is is it a number that
makes me feel excited and kindof tingly inside, versus the
feeling of a little bit let down, a little bit like, oh, that's
nice, but I feel like, oh, Idon't know, it's a little safe?
(39:54):
So those two feelings askyourself, is this a number that
makes me excited, that you wouldwant to like jump out of bed
and package this thing up andyou are so excited to take it to
them because you're just likelit up about it?
So ask yourself that questionbecause I think a lot of artists
(40:16):
, and a lot of artists that Italk to default more to the
appeasing.
Let me discount this.
I don't want to upset anybodykind of a realm and you got to
get real honest with yourself ofhow does that feel inside.
The second question is if Iwould get busy in this or if I
(40:38):
would start selling these piecesevery day.
Is that sustainable?
If you are going to take yourtime although we don't want a
price based on necessarily hoursspent of making the art it's
more about can you physically do?
it Can you physically do it andis it sustainable to your art
practice?
Even, are you able to buy whatyou need and buy what you want?
(41:02):
To continue in our practice andmake it sustainable, if you
would get busy, do you have tohire more child care?
Is that going to cover thatchild care If you would get busy
?
And then you, when you say yesto something, you say no to
something else.
So what is that exchange?
Is that in an appropriate valuefor that exchange if you were
(41:25):
to get busy?
The third question is thiscontributing to a life that I
want, what is success to you?
You get to pick again with allof this.
You get to decide what that isto you.
Are you going into this sayingI want to be able to pay for my
family's vacations, I want tomove to being a full-time artist
(41:50):
or whatever it is?
What is the life that you want?
Do you want to go on vacationsto the south of France?
Mak (41:58):
like I do.
Valerie (42:00):
What do you want?
What do you want in life, andis this contributing to that
life that you want?
Because, again, when you sayyes to something, you're saying
no to something else.
So, overall, is this feelinggood?
Is this contributing to thelife that I want to have?
Mak (42:15):
Yeah, and that is really a great exercise to start with,
and I know for a lot of peopleit can feel uncomfortable.
But if you would take 30minutes to sit down and get
quiet with yourself and evenhave a piece of paper and write
down a number, what is a number?
How much money do you want tomake selling your art over the
(42:37):
next year, over the next 12months?
Or do you have a goal?
I want to take the family toParis for Christmas next year?
I want to take the kids toDisney World, or is it?
Hey, I just want to be able tocover the cost of our car
payments every month.
(43:02):
Whatever your goal is, sit down,write that down and actually
get real with yourself for aminute, close your eyes and
think what do I want, what feelsgood, what would light me up?
And so few of us, so few of us,take that much time to think
about ourselves and what we wantand what would make us feel
good.
And it almost can getuncomfortable.
(43:23):
You could write down $5,000over the next year.
You could write down $5 million, but knowing that is a really
good starting point for helpingyou understand what will help
light you up and make you feeltingly and make you feel good
when it comes to pricing yourart moving forward.
Valerie (43:41):
Yeah.
And then the last question toask am I calling forward the
customer that I want?
Are you pricing for the personwho wants to get their art at
HomeGoods and are you trying toappease that customer?
Who is the customer that youare calling forward?
And are you calling forward thecustomer that you want to have?
(44:05):
If you're doing commissions,are you calling forward the
person who trusts you, theperson who is paying you a lot
of money?
They're paying you the moneythat is a high value, so they're
going to be hands off with youand they're like we want you to
do your thing.
Are you calling forward theperson who is going to more
(44:27):
micromanage you Like?
What type of person are youcalling in?
And are you calling in theperson that you want to call in
with that price?
Mak (44:35):
And I want to say right now too, if any of this is again
starting to make you feel alittle uncomfortable or you're
having second guessing, you'resaying, oh, this sounds a little
crazy for me.
That's something that youshould really dig into, because
this is going to be a littleuncomfortable, because it's a
new way of thinking about,something that has sort of been
(44:56):
standardized or whatever that'sbeen in your mind for a long
time.
But let me tell you somethingthere are thousands of people
selling art and having a careerand feeling really good about it
every day, who are successful,pricing their art in a way that
makes them feel good and feelhappy.
So if the old way of doing itis comfortable for you right now
(45:18):
and you're feeling a littleskeptical about everything that
we're saying, I think you shouldtake a moment and really,
really evaluate that.
Valerie (45:27):
And in this conversation too, you get to
test, you get to play with it.
This exploration intoartpreneurship is another wing
of your creativity.
Let's play.
Let's play a game.
Let's see what happens.
Let's try this.
How did that feel?
That felt good, that didn'tfeel so good.
Let's move and try and testthings and test things, and the
(46:01):
beauty of doing that is there'sno right and wrong.
It's just like as you arecreating the work, you're
flowing through it and you'reletting it be, this
experimentation of what unfoldsand that's even part of the goal
setting and everything andknowing what it is that you want
, but yet, at the same time,you're not holding on to that
outcome so tightly.
You're able to play in it andtest it and change and adapt and
(46:24):
see how it feels and be on thisjourney, which can be really
exciting, instead of the typicalcliches that we hear.
Mak (46:34):
So, if all of this is something that you are or you're
feeling and you're excitedabout, or even you're more
curious about diving into, thisis what we're going to be
covering in the course beginningin January.
But this is, let me tell yousomething, this is like a quick
flyover of this topic.
This topic is so much deeperand there's definitely some
(46:57):
mindset, work and things thatneed to go into it before we get
into that, and so we're goingto cover all of that in the
course beginning in January andwe want you to come along with
us and we want you to know thatwe're going to come alongside
you and that community of peoplewill be alongside you.
So if this sounds really scary,that's okay, Because Valerie
(47:19):
and I have created this courseto be a safe place where you can
experiment and talk to us andinteract with us and other
people in the community to helpyou through this process.
So if it's feeling scary,that's normal, but that's also
good, because we only grow andimprove and get better when
(47:41):
we're uncomfortable.
Valerie (47:43):
And knowing that there's so much that goes into
it because if this has uncoveredthis idea of this is value, not
price then how do we conveyvalue?
How do we tell your story in away that resonates?
How do you show up in the wayyou present your art and
marketing your art?
That is going to build thatvalue.
(48:04):
That all becomes part of thisconversation that we're not even
touching on right now, but thatis something that all becomes
part of the creativity that isbeing an entrepreneur and having
somebody and a group of peopleto be able to go through that
honestly creative journey with,to say, well, I tried this and
(48:26):
this doesn't work and I'm notgetting this and I'm feeling bad
about this, and kind of takingthat swirl of thought and being
able to have it land in a groupand in a container where we can
all help each other.
I think that's really a hugepart of what the journey is
going to be.
Mak (48:44):
And one of the big things that Val and I both believe in
strongly and I take my coachingclients through this and you and
I talk about this all the timeis this concept of failing fast.
And what I tell my clients allthe time is this concept of
failing fast.
And what I tell my clients allthe time is look, our goal isn't
to spend a ton of time buildingsomething and then release it,
only to find out it's not quiteperfect, because no one has ever
(49:04):
done that in the history ofselling anything.
It just hasn't happened.
People, they constantly tweak.
So what we want to do and whatyou want to do, is try to fail
fast.
And that's why having thesupport, because the first three
months of the course but thenyou get essentially like three
additional months for free thatare us supporting you in the
community, supporting you.
So because we're not going toget the story quite right the
(49:25):
first time and you're not goingto have a sale right out of the
gate and it's going to take sometime, but over time you're
going to build that muscle andall of a sudden it's going to
get easier and easier and you'regoing to feel so much better
about it, and that, again, iswhy we structured the course
this way, and one of the bigthings which we're tackling in
the next episode tomorrow on thepodcast is I know you're saying
(49:48):
okay, val, it's super easy foryou to sell because you have
this big social media audienceand you have this big following.
Oh yeah, leanne Ford, she cansell because she's super famous.
So tomorrow we're going todispel all of that and we're
going to be talking about how tosell your art right away
without an audience.
How can you right now, withwhatever your audience is I
(50:11):
don't care if it's 100 followerson Instagram and no email list
or thousands of followers howcan you start selling art right
now without an audience?
We're going to help you workthrough that.
Valerie (50:22):
I'm so excited to be back.
I feel like we love havingthese conversations.
This is such a privilege to bewith you to be talking about
this, so thank you so much forlistening.
I hope that you had some keytakeaways, some ahas, from this
episode and if so, please let usknow.
Please DM me.
(50:43):
My DMs are open at ValerieMcKeon on Instagram.
I would love to hear if therewas something that really was
maybe a breakthrough for you asa takeaway in this episode.
Mak (50:54):
And, of course, don't forget that there is an early
bird special right now for thecourse.
That's going to be good throughthe weekend.
It's a significant savings, andthen you get those three bonus
calls over the next two monthsbefore the course starts in
January, which has a really highvalue.
You get all of that for free.
So if this is feeling likesomething you might be
(51:14):
interested in doing, then pleasevisit ValerieMcKeoncom.
Slash sell with peace.
No capitals, no spaces, all oneword sell with peace.
All the details and all theinformation is available there
and if you have questions asyou're hearing this and you're
not quite sure, you can alwaysemail us to support at
(51:34):
ValerieMcKeoncom and we'llanswer all your questions.
We'll be getting back to youright away and help you
understand.
Whatever questions you have.
We'll answer to the best of ourability.
Valerie (51:46):
All right, everybody.
We will see you again tomorrow.
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!