March 24, 2025 • 52 mins
In this fired-up, heart-on-sleeve episode, Mak and Valerie tackle one of the biggest invisible barriers creative people face: waiting for permission.
Whether it's from society, our families, our Instagram followers, or—most sneakily—ourselves, this need for outside validation keeps so many creatives stuck on the sidelines. If you've ever found yourself saying "I'll start when…" or "I'm not legit enough yet," this one’s for you.
They talk candidly about the cultural contradictions around creativity, the fear that hides behind perfectionism, and why messy action is the only kind that actually leads to growth. Expect laughter, tough love, a few rants, and a whole lot of truth.
By the end, you’ll be ready to grab a pen and write your own permission slip—no gatekeepers required.
✨ KEY TAKEAWAYS:
- You don’t need anyone to “pick you.” You’re the one holding the pen. Start writing your own permission slip.
- Waiting to feel “legit” is a lie your fear tells you. Action is what makes you legitimate—not credentials or fancy tools.
- Creativity often gets boxed in by society—but it’s essential, not extra. You’re not frivolous for wanting a creative life. You’re human.
- You’re allowed to pivot. Trying something doesn’t mean you’re locked in forever.
- Feeling jealous? That’s a clue. It’s pointing you toward something your soul wants. Use it.
- No one has it all figured out when they begin. And the ones who look like they do? They just started anyway.
- Every “failed” creative path teaches you something vital. Nothing is wasted.
- Messy, imperfect action beats perfect plans every time. Get your hands dirty. That’s where the magic is.
Follow Valerie & Mak on Instagram: @valeriemckeehan & @thatmakguy
Thanks for listening to The UnBound Creative!
If today’s episode resonated with you, share it with a friend or leave us a review, it helps more creatives discover the show.
💌 Connect with us on Instagram:
@valeriemckeehan & @thatmakguy (that’s Mak with a K!)
Keep creating bravely. We’re so glad you’re here.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mak (00:08):
so we're four episodes in, and you're not sick of doing
this with me yet?
Valerie (00:14):
not yet not yet.
Mak (00:17):
We'll see.
That's good.
Valerie (00:18):
We'll see, like at episode 30, how you feel well,
I'm just waiting for us to haveour first fight on the podcast.
Mak (00:26):
Well, we're good at fighting off the podcast that
we've mastered.
Valerie (00:30):
I'm sure we'll hit a topic and we'll go at it.
We'll see.
Mak (00:35):
I guess it would be more interesting if we actually
disagreed on something ratherthan just agreeing on everything
all the time.
Valerie (00:41):
That's true, and we do disagree on things.
Mak (00:45):
Maybe we should make a list of things that we do disagree
on and actually do a coupleshows like that.
Valerie (00:51):
Although our different perspectives do tend to be maybe
not disagreeing, but because Ican see things from your
perspective, how you're comingat it.
It's just not necessarily mychosen perspective.
I choose to look at thingsdifferently.
It's just not necessarily mychosen perspective.
Like, I choose to look atthings differently.
So I don't know if that's adisagreement, but I think that's
why we are having so much fun,because these are the
(01:13):
conversations that we have wherewe'll just interject and it's
like oh well, I look at it thisway and you look at it a
different way.
It's kind of fun.
Mak (01:22):
Well, it's nice of you to say that you see things from my
perspective, so you understand,because you're just wrong.
Valerie (01:30):
Oh, yeah, okay.
Mak (01:32):
I'm just kidding.
Valerie (01:33):
You're instigating.
Now You're trying to get us tofight on the air.
Mak (01:36):
Well, you got me like okay, I want to stir things up.
I do like you know that issomething about me.
I do like you know that issomething about me.
Valerie (01:48):
I do really like getting into like arguments with
people, but hear me out, do youlike?
Mak (01:51):
debating yeah, debating is a better word, but like a
respectful disagreement.
I love that and I love itbecause I really enjoy debating.
But also I find I learn so muchmore and so often I have my
mind changed.
And I love that more thananything is when someone can
(02:11):
come at me with a topic I'mpassionate about and actually
get me to change my mind.
Then that's totally amazing.
Like I love that experience andI seek that out all the time.
Valerie (02:21):
Yeah.
Mak (02:22):
Thank you for that.
Thank you for that response.
Valerie (02:24):
Well, yeah, I'm sure that is going to happen at some
I know we'll.
Mak (02:29):
We'll do it.
Hey, I'm mac, this is val andthis is our podcast, the unbound
creative.
Thank you for hanging out withus.
Episode four, and uh, what'sour topic for today?
Valerie (02:42):
I.
I think there's something thatholds a lot of creatives back.
Well, there's a lot of things,let's face it.
Mak (02:49):
I feel like everything holds a lot of things that hold
creatives back.
Valerie (02:53):
But there is this sneaky thing that we hear come
up in different ways, and we'renot necessarily saying the thing
what it is, we're kind ofhiding it in different ways.
So what that thing is iswaiting for permission, thinking
that you need permission fromwho?
(03:16):
From your parents, from society, from whatever else, somebody
who is that you believe to becredible, or but just this
desire to have permission inorder to do well, anything that
you want, but especiallysomething creative.
Mak (03:37):
Well, I think the big one is waiting for permission from
yourself.
Valerie (03:41):
Oh, totally.
Mak (03:42):
Because we and we hide this in very clever ways we come up
with a hundred things that weneed to do in order to start
creating.
Yes, so we always like I justthis happens to me all the time.
It's like oh well, I can dothat once my office is clean.
I can do that once I've createda web page for it.
(04:03):
I can do that once I've gottenthe colors nailed down.
I can do that once I've createda webpage for it.
I can do that once I've gottenthe colors nailed down.
I can do that.
And it's like you start tonotice oh no, I'm just not doing
the thing because I'm notgiving myself permission to
start.
Valerie (04:17):
I hear artists say all the time I just need a little
bit more experience.
I'm not there yet.
I need more experience, I needmore training.
We do, we push all of it down.
It really is just fear.
I mean, that's what all of itis the waiting for permission.
(04:38):
Why are we waiting forpermission?
It really all boils down to thesame thing which everybody is
afraid.
Therefore, we want thepermission to somehow validate
us and it's like then I'm goingto feel legit, then I'm going to
feel worthwhile, then I'm goingto feel like I can do this
(05:00):
Because if we think about it,because if we think about it,
creatives in society as well arejust not treated all that great
in a lot of ways in a lot ofcircles.
Because it's almost this weirdlose kind of a lose-lose, where
(05:21):
I think, societally we hearmessages a lot of like oh,
that's cute, your cute littlehobby, or it's kind of frivolous
and fluffy.
When you try to exercise yourcreativity, it feels like, oh,
after all of the importantthings are done or in line, then
(05:44):
whatever, spare little sliversof time that you have left,
that's okay to put forth to yourcreativity.
But then we also, at the sametime, have all of this massive
pressure at the same time.
So if you start to do somethingcreative, I think people's
inclination it's like oh well,are you going to monetize that?
(06:06):
Are you going to start abusiness?
So I don't know, what do youthink?
I just feel like we get theseweird societal messages for
creatives.
Mak (06:16):
Yeah, I don't think people really know how to classify
creativity.
I have a lot to say about thisbecause I'm going to have to
gather my thoughts because mybrain's kind of pinballing right
now.
But first of all, people don'ttake creativity seriously until
you're suddenly famous.
So it's like if you're amusician, it's like, oh, he's
(06:39):
doing gigs on the weekends andisn't it nice and whatever.
He's doing gigs on the weekendsand isn't it nice and whatever.
But then you get that album orthat single and you become huge
and all of a sudden, now it'slegit.
Valerie (06:52):
Which is so ridiculous.
That's so sad, right.
Mak (06:56):
And it's really stupid because it's all that build up,
it's the doing that allows youto get to the legitimate part.
Plus, there are plenty ofmusicians who aren't super
famous but, let's say,financially successful.
But until that moment, whatyou're doing is not legit.
(07:30):
But you have to do the thing inorder to become legit.
It's like if, if, if someonewas becoming an attorney and
they're, and they're goingthrough the law school practice,
you know, getting ready.
No one goes.
Oh well, what you're doingisn't legitimate because you're
not an attorney who's in trialsyet.
But for creatives, that's whatit is I do feel like that is a
(07:52):
societal.
It is, it's like oh, you'retrying, oh you're being creative
, forget that, that's not.
You're not contributinganything.
Valerie (07:58):
It's like oh, that's cute, that's cute.
Or.
Mak (08:00):
Or this is like a oh, that's must be a nice hobby for
you.
Valerie (08:04):
It's like no, but also, but also, oh, I can get so
fired up.
That's what I mean.
Mak (08:11):
I have like 500 thoughts, and I wish I could hit pause.
We don't do that here.
Valerie (08:15):
Okay, this is all real, this is raw, this is we don't
edit.
I get so mad because we peoplealmost want to put creativity in
a box.
This is like why we'reliterally doing the podcast
(08:36):
called the right.
This is the unbound creative,not the bound creative the crux
of it all which is why I thinkwe're getting fired up, but also
like I want to say it right, atthe same time, found creative
the crux of it all, which is whyI think we're getting fired up,
but also, like I want to say itright at the same time.
So the thing is dancing withcreativity and entering that
(08:59):
realm of being creative andstarting to create something
from nothing and think in thatway, I believe, is the doorway
to a purposeful, fulfilling,meaningful, happy existence that
is not determined, based onbusiness, monetization, outward
(09:25):
success, like we hold thosethings in such high regard.
I feel like when it comes tocreatives, and then we put all
this pressure on creatives oncethey have achieved that level
right, like we see that withcelebrities and things or
musicians, for example, and thenit's like oh, they got famous
(09:47):
for a certain thing.
And then how often do we hearpeople say like, oh, that album
and they went off the rails andall this?
Mak (09:55):
stuff.
Then we judge the creativity.
There's so much here.
Valerie (09:59):
There's so much to unpack, but I feel like that
very existence of dancing withcreativity let's take away what
it could potentially become, orputting any type of label on it
at all Just the very act ofcreating will change your life.
(10:22):
You start dancing in that way,operating in that way, thinking
about life through the lens ofcreativity, through whatever
channel necessary for you to getthere.
For some people, that istraditional creative arts
painting, drawing, whatever itis, drawing, whatever it is.
(10:52):
Um, music, that can besomething that turns into a
thing, a real thing.
We see that all the time.
That happens with creatives.
However, that could also besomething that just gives you an
amazing, incredible life andthen opens you up to other ways
of being creative, in ways thataren't just relegated to the
(11:13):
traditional arts.
The arts may be a gateway intolearning these principles of
creativity and getting messy andbeing willing to be vulnerable
and take risks and everything,and then you take that way of
being and put it into everythingelse that you do.
But this isn't even gettinginto the fact that just being
(11:38):
part of the arts will changeyour literal brain, like we're
wired for it On a biologicallevel.
Mak (11:47):
Yeah, science at this point .
Valerie (11:48):
To interact with the arts, like music heals us.
Colors heal us.
Interacting with nature In away where we express that Heals
us.
Mak (12:01):
Moving through your feelings by making art Is a
medicinal drip in your brainthat can heal you and this is
like and I'm going to put thisout there, this is not like
conjecture or woo woo.
We actually know people whohave developed things that are
in the process of being approvedby the f FDA to like treat
(12:24):
cancer with music and withvisuals and with and there was a
the book your, your brain onart which dives into all of this
so do you know what that bookwas to me?
Valerie (12:36):
We're talking about permission.
That book, to me, was like onehuge, giant permission slip.
I was just like you want tomake fun of people trying to
create.
You want to say this isfrivolous and cute and a hobby.
I just want to hold up thatbook and like slam it down on
the table and be like this isthe permission.
Mak (12:57):
Well, I'm going to take this a step further and I'm
going to say I still firmlybelieve that everybody is
creative.
Every human being is creativein one way or another.
We were created to create.
That's why we're here.
So there's a part of me thatreally firmly believes that
we're so hard on creativesbecause we're actually envious
of the people who are creating.
(13:18):
We look at them creating and wego.
You can't do that becausethat's frivolous and that's dumb
and that scares me over here inmy corporate job, where I'm not
creating but secretly deep down, I want to create something,
and I think it's been more andmore prevalent in the last 10 or
(13:41):
15 years, especially with theadvent of the internet.
But with technology and whereit is how we can, well, you can
start a business literally intwo hours, in an afternoon at
home, where doing that even 20years ago was so much more
difficult than it is now.
Like you can have an idea inthe morning and be selling it
online at night.
(14:01):
That is crazy.
That has never like.
We're so fortunate to be alivein a time where that is totally
possible.
And because of that, I thinkwe're seeing more and more
people stepping into beingcreative.
Because we have that ability,the whole world is like at the
(14:22):
end of our phone or the end ofour laptop, but so I think
people are leaning into thatmore.
But also, at the same time, youhave more and more people who
are judging that, because theywant to step out and be creative
, but they're not.
So we're in like a kind of acatch-22 here, when we're
(14:53):
talking about the topic we'retalking today, which is
permission to start, and Iactually think what causes
people to get on creatives isthe fact that they're jealous of
creatives.
Does that make sense?
And it's because they want tostart.
Valerie (15:03):
Well, I'm thinking about Brene Brown and her book
Daring Greatly.
It's the same thing.
She's all about shame, ofcourse, and vulnerability as an
antidote, and empathy as anantidote to shame, but we feel
joy because of the vulnerability.
We have to have thevulnerability place peace.
(15:26):
And in Daring Greatly there'sthe quote about you're only
listening to the people who arein the rink with you.
Basically, I forget, I'm sayingit wrong, but do you know what
quote I'm talking about?
I vaguely remember I mean it'sbeen a minute, the whole book is
on that concept of thebystanders are the ones who are
(15:50):
saying these things, not thepeople in the rink.
It's like listening to thepeople in the rink who are doing
this.
But yeah, there is just thesecontradictory kind of cultural
messages we get with creativityand I think that it's especially
the plight of a creative isespecially difficult in that
(16:13):
because we do hear the culturalmessaging of this is frivolous,
this is silly, get you know, doyour adulting.
Things like this is the moreimportant things.
And come on, hello, we can gostruggling, starving, suffering,
artist all day long.
Talk about that.
So you have that on one end, butthen on the other end, for the
(16:35):
creative who is in the rank, theone doing it, it feels anything
but frivolous, it can feel soheavy.
So we ourselves are like, sofearful perfectionist, feeling
all of that weight and whatwe've talked about in our
(16:57):
previous episodes too, justabout how we're not so wired for
thriving, we're wired forsurvival.
We have a survival brain thatdoes a good job of keeping us in
line and trying to keep us safe.
So when you are overriding thatwith the biohacks we talked
(17:17):
about last time, that feels,that can feel really heavy and
really like there's a lot atstake and there's a lot on the
line.
So it's such an interestingthing that we have that
contradiction, because then wemay be hearing the messaging of
you're silly and it's frivolousand oh, what a cute little hobby
(17:39):
, but you're feeling a lot ofangst and pressure about that.
So, yeah, we want to in justthis podcast in general, we want
to empower creatives.
I think, if there's anythingthat, if it boils down to what
do we want for creatives, whatdo we want for people who listen
(18:04):
to this podcast?
We want to be the voice thatsays we see you.
We want to be the voice thatsays we see you.
It's hard to have thesedifferent messaging that comes
in, but yet we want to be thislight.
Back to yourself.
It's like come back to who youare, come back to yourself.
(18:25):
You are made to create.
You are made to do this.
The people that are saying thisand maybe keeping you from
stepping out in your fullpermission and in your full
empowerment, they are blockedthemselves.
Mak (18:44):
Well, that's why it's a catch 22.
And so that's the point is thatyou are allowed to create.
There is no level of creativitywhich is frivolous or off
limits or off limits in any way,shape or form.
So that's today's topic gettingstarted.
The secret there is literallyjust starting and paying
(19:08):
attention to your thoughts andthe things that you're doing in
order to sort of procrastinateor keep yourself from starting,
like, what is the reason youhaven't done the thing?
Now think about that reason andreally analyze it and go is
this real or is this not real?
(19:30):
What is the point?
What is the reason that youhave not yet started?
Because we need you to start.
We want you to start.
You've got to go right now.
Valerie (19:40):
It's like the why under the why, and if it has
something to do with well, I'mnot legitimate or I don't feel
as though I can warrant the timeand the money.
That's another big thing whereI've talked before about my
explorations, my own creativeexplorations that have had many
(20:02):
dead ends, like I was intoearrings for a while, which is
probably the one I've talkedabout the most, because I
invested a great deal of timeand money into doing that.
Mak (20:15):
Sure.
Valerie (20:15):
And it ended up being nothing.
Do I find that to be a waste?
No, I needed that.
That was part of a creativeexploration.
That was part of following awhisper.
Mak (20:26):
Well, any exploration that you do creatively is never
wasted Never, ever Even.
You know it's like because thisis what people do.
If they start down a path andit doesn't work out the way they
want it, or they find out theydon't enjoy it, or whatever the
case might be, they then go oh,what a waste of time, what a
waste of money, what a waste.
No, you learned so much, firstof all in trying to develop that
(20:50):
skill, but secondly, youlearned about yourself, and that
is now information you'recarrying forward into your next
creative venture or adventure.
And that is another thing thatyou've got to kind of remember
and flip on your head is if youtry something and it doesn't
work out the way you expected,you're not a failure.
You just learned that that'snot exactly for you, and then
(21:14):
you just quickly pivot and moveon to the next thing.
Valerie (21:18):
What you said learning about yourself, that's
everything.
That is everything, and the actof engaging in your creativity
and making something it is goingto put you face to face with
(21:39):
your edges.
How amazing is that the factthat you will learn something
new about yourself, the factthat it is going to uncover
those sneaky points ofresistance.
Going to uncover those sneakypoints of resistance, the sneaky
points where you are hard onyourself, or learning to maybe
unhinge from some unhelpfulthings like people pleasing or
(22:00):
worrying what others are goingto think, and getting into that.
That you of you and and thatauthenticity with am I really
enjoying this?
Is this performative?
I mean, you are going to learnso much about yourself in any
creative endeavor that you do,and this is the path.
(22:23):
There isn't really that end ofit, because the more you create,
the more you engage in that wayof being, just the more there
is creativity multiplies, it'sabundant.
So you just become in in thatrhythm of operating in a more
(22:44):
creative way and you justcontinue to learn more about
yourself.
That is so unbelievablyimportant and valid in and of
itself.
We have just given how manyreasons why engaging in this way
is basically one of the mostimportant things that you can do
(23:08):
and I believe it is worthinvesting in.
It is worth investing real time, it's worth investing real
money in to follow those things.
Mak (23:19):
Well, I also think it's ingrained within us that if
we're doing something, if it's ahobby, or if it turns it even
to a little business orsomething like that at first,
that we then say we've plantedour flag, this is who I am, this
is what I am to the world, andyou like announce it.
Oh, here is my thing, here ismy creative outlet.
Here it is.
This is me, but guess what it?
(23:42):
It doesn't have to be that you,you are allowed to change your
mind at any moment and pivot ifit's uncomfortable or if it's
something you realize you don'tenjoy, and you find something
better or something else youwant to do.
And and that's the thing it'slike we all get caught up in
this idea that this is my life.
(24:04):
This is my life, this is who Iam.
Look, look at snoop dogg.
We use him as an example allthe time.
He started out as a rapper andis now like a winery owner and
martha stewart's best friend andan olympic ambassador and doing
children's uh affirmations andall this.
So this guy I mean you gottalove this guy, because he
(24:27):
started as one thing and hasmorphed into like 15 other
things.
Valerie (24:32):
It's just creativity on display.
Mak (24:34):
What is so great about him is he just follows that creative
calling, and so many people areafraid to do that.
And even if you, like me, Ihave so many different interests
and I do so many differentthings.
I went on my Instagram theother day and give like a 15
minute speech about why I'mcoaching now, when for the last
(24:55):
20 years, people have seen me doradio and start businesses and
all this other stuff.
And it's like you know, andthat's because I'm allowed to do
that I can do what I wantwhenever I want.
I want and that's what you haveto keep in mind too is no
matter what you're doing, youcan pivot at any moment and you
(25:19):
just follow that creative partof you and you will get probably
to someplace you never expected.
But the problem is you don'tstart, and this is another one
of those blockers is it'sbecause it feels like if I go in
on this, if I say, okay, I'mgoing to start investing time
and money in this, this is myfuture.
I have to make this work, andso many people get caught in
something they don't enjoy doingand they don't love because
(25:41):
they're stuck on the idea.
Well, I got started, so I haveto stick with it.
And that's not always true,because when you are truly lit
up and you love what you'redoing and it is a fulfilling
adventure, when the creativity,when you would work 80 hours a
week on it for no pay, then youknow it's lit up and it's
(26:03):
aligned and it feels great.
So if you're into something andyou're not digging it, you can
pivot, and that's another reasonpeople don't start.
So he's got all these reasons.
So if you're into something andyou're not digging it, you can
pivot, like and that's anotherreason people don't start so
he's got all these reasons.
And and it's just like, no,just do it.
Just like.
If you have that inkling, justgo try it.
It doesn't mean that that'sdefining you now for the rest of
(26:25):
your life.
You're allowed to do that Right.
Valerie (26:29):
We want this.
We want somebody else, almostwith this idea of permission, to
say you know, I choose you todo this and it just isn't going
to happen.
That's the thing.
Nobody is going to come intoyour DMs and be like, hey, you
know, I've really I've've seenthis and I think you should, you
(26:51):
should do this.
It's like we're sitting aroundalmost waiting for that
permission slip to come, but youwrite your own permission slip
at every turn.
Anything that you want to do,you are able to do it.
Just by thinking that you can,thinking that you're able, and
that is going to separate somany people from living lives
(27:16):
that feel creatively lit up,from staying stuck.
This idea of you get to chooseyourself, like there's nobody
out there that needs to chooseyou, or say, hey, this is
legitimate now, or you've workedreally hard and you've earned
the right to explore somethingthat you want to explore, or
(27:38):
whatever.
None of that is going to happen.
It all comes from within youand you can be the one, like you
were saying, holding the penaway from writing your own
permission slip because of fearand all of the things that you
think you have to check theboxes on, like, oh, is this
going to be a long lasting thing?
Oh, I don't know.
All right, I'm not going towrite the permission slip to
(27:59):
even begin.
Do I have it all figured out?
Well, no, I don't.
Okay, I'm not going to writethe permission slip to begin.
It's like we hold that pen inour hands, but we want everybody
to know that you can write itat any moment, and that is what
is going to separate the peoplethat have lives doing what they
(28:21):
want to do and the ones thatdon't.
Mak (28:25):
And there is evidence of that everywhere.
There is evidence of thateverywhere.
I mean anyone you can think ofwho is successful, from famous
rich billionaires to people inyour community who have really
cool businesses, or you knowthings that they're doing or
artists that you know.
It's like that is thedifference they just started,
(28:47):
they just they just did it, theyjust went for it.
So take a moment right now andreally examine.
Like I think is as if you havebeen thinking about something or
a couple of things during thisconversation that kind of came
up and like, yeah, I haven'tdone this, I haven't.
Yeah, I kind of I've alwayswanted to do this or whatever I
want you to.
I want you to like what is thefirst little step?
(29:09):
Like it doesn't have to be anall in all or nothing thing, but
of the things that you want totry, what is the first small
step that you can take today toget started?
Because that first small stepfeels like a massive
accomplishment and it could bewriting something down on a
(29:32):
piece of paper, it could bemaking a phone call, it could be
sending an email, I don't know.
It could be starting a journalto figure out what the next
steps are.
Take a moment and think aboutthat, because that is a huge
thing.
If you've been waiting, and youhave been waiting for
permission from the world, fromsociety, from your friends, from
your family or, moreimportantly, from yourself, take
(29:56):
that small step forward today.
What is it that you can do?
That small action will go along, long way.
Valerie (30:02):
Just give yourself the green light.
I mean, it really is.
It's going to be courage totake that step and write that
slip on your own.
But here's the thing we look atother people doing things that
maybe we want to do, and if youhave a pang of jealousy for that
(30:23):
, that is such a gift, becausethat is a really good indicator
that somebody is operating in away that you are holding
yourself apart from.
So if you feel those pangs ofjealousy, it's a really good
kind of just redirect, to belike Ooh interesting, why am I
(30:45):
feeling that way?
What is it about this that I amnot experiencing in my life?
That's giving that to me, andit's just a really good gauge to
use when we're feeling jealous,because you're probably not
giving yourself permissionsomewhere.
Mak (31:07):
And the same thing is true with criticism, Like when you,
when you start to feel like youyou need to criticize somebody
who's doing something.
Examine that, because allcriticism is self-criticism, All
Chris.
So that's a good thing toremember.
When someone criticizes you,they're actually there's
something going on with them.
But, more importantly, when youare seeing someone doing
(31:29):
something you feel jealous oryou feel the need to criticize
or critique, take a breath andexamine why.
Why is that thing kind ofmaking you boil a little bit
under the surface?
Kind of making you boil alittle bit under the surface,
and I promise you will be somuch happier once you examine
that and get to where that'scoming from inside in your heart
(31:50):
and your soul and you exercisethat a little bit and you go oh
OK, I know what I need to do.
It makes such a big difference.
Valerie (32:01):
Yeah, and the other thing with jealousy when we see
that it's actually a really coolthing that if we can see the
example of something, somebodyelse, that we want to do, or a
life that we want to have orsomething creative that we want
to be bringing forth, the factthat we're seeing the example of
(32:23):
it, it's like it exists, it'salready here.
That is such another cool thing.
Like you said, how many peoplethey're just writing their own
permission slips and we'rewitnessing that they're not.
Nobody chose them, especiallyat first.
Even if they're the mostsuccessful, they had to choose
(32:46):
themselves at one point andwrite their own permission slip
to do that.
But when we can see thathappening, that gives us,
instead of the jealousy weshould be going oh, okay, well,
we can say, why not me?
In a way that is jealous.
(33:06):
Of course, it's all in how youframe it Like, oh, it's
happening to them, why not me?
I'm going to be all jealous andeverything.
Or we can say, yeah, why notyou?
Look, we see the example of it.
This person is doing it, thisperson is living that life.
What makes them different fromyou?
Nothing, you know.
(33:27):
It's probably a lot to do withcourage and action to do it.
But why not you, why notanybody?
Who is anybody to do anything?
Mak (33:37):
well, and and the difference between people who
are are successful in theircreativity and this is this goes
for everybody, not just beingsuccessful in your creative
business and all that.
The difference between peoplewho are successful and who
aren't sorry to put it bluntlyis action.
It's literally action.
(33:57):
They took action and it'susually consistent action, and
that's what this episode is allabout.
It's inaction.
We're not starting becausewe're afraid to take action.
Valerie (34:10):
And we think we need permission.
Mak (34:12):
But nobody.
Nothing that you see,experience, feel, smell, taste,
anything would exist if somebodyhadn't taken an action upon a
creative thought.
That's the only differencebetween them is you.
They took action, and actionwill beat talent every single
(34:32):
time.
There's so many really talentedpeople who never take action,
so we'll never know what it isthat they have to offer the
world, and it's sad and thatpains me, which is part of the
reason why we're doing thispodcast, but that's it.
I.
That pains me, which is part ofthe reason why we're doing this
podcast, but that's it.
I mean, literally, action iseverything.
Valerie (34:49):
And I want to interject messy action, messy action,
that's good.
Not figured out the whole wayhow this is going to go.
It's one foot in front of theother.
It's courageous, messy,imperfect action.
And you do that and you're notwaiting for that to happen.
(35:10):
You're willing to sit in themuck of your own discomfort
because it is going to be messy.
That's how you build anything.
That's how you paint a painting, anything.
That's how you paint a painting.
That's how you build a business.
It's all just imperfect, messyaction after action after action
(35:32):
, and you don't quite see whereit's headed.
You might have a goal, andthat's okay, but it is that,
that showing up, putting thatone stroke, the one step after
another, that's the determiner.
Mak (35:50):
Have you ever baked a cake?
Have you ever made acomplicated, complex dinner?
It's messy, it gets reallyreally messy, but the result is
something really incredible andreally nourishing.
And that's what this is.
It's the same thing.
You, you, you.
You have to get your handsdirty, because that's the fun
(36:11):
part.
The fun part is the actualaction of the building, of the
doing of the thing, not theresult.
When, when a musician is isrecording a song, they love the
process in the studio.
When a musician is recording asong, they love the process in
the studio.
That's when they get toexercise all the creative
thought and try and play and seewhat works and what doesn't.
(36:32):
And this is where, like,producers come in and it gets
really exciting.
When the song is done, that'sgreat, but that's it.
It's done and it's off, andthat's it.
They want to get back to thestudio.
They want to get back towriting.
They want to get back to themessy part off, and that's it.
They want to get back to thestudio.
They want to get back towriting.
Valerie (36:46):
They want to get back to the messy part.
So if you're waiting on thepermission, what is that telling
you?
Okay, and especially when itcomes to yourself and your
permission that you're notgiving yourself because you're
saying I need more training, Ineed more credentials, I need
more experience, I need moretime, I need more money, all of
these things that we say we'reholding ourselves apart from
(37:09):
doing whatever it is that youwanna do and we have all of
these reasons why the permissionis going to come when I have
this thing, but all that isreally saying it's trying to
protect you from just gettingmessy and taking an imperfect
next step.
We think that when we'refurther down the line and we
(37:29):
have more credentials or we havemore experience, that the mess
is somehow not going to be themess, but it's still going to be
the mess.
Mak (37:39):
It's just a bigger mess.
It's just a bigger mess, butthat's also the.
Valerie (37:45):
That is what is required, Right, the only way
out of the mess is through themess.
There's no bypassing, there isno you know pass, go collect
$200, like go right to go, Likewe're not getting that.
Mak (38:01):
And you know what it would be boring if it was like like we
, you know, if you, if you wantto, if you want to be the
world's greatest golfer, and youcould just snap your fingers
and you were, you got a genie ina bottle and you could be the
world's greatest golfer.
It might be fun for like alittle while, but it would be
terrible after a while becauseyou would just win every single
(38:22):
round and that would no longerbe fun.
But the but.
If you start and you learn andyou're and you're constantly
evolving and growing andpracticing in your golf game and
all of this, that's the partthat's fun.
Valerie (38:37):
That's the part that's fun, that's where you're growing
I was thinking what that wouldbreed is imposter syndrome.
If, all of a sudden, you knowthere would just be this level
of imposter syndrome, if all ofa sudden you know there would
just be this level of impostersyndrome.
I feel like the antidote toimposter syndrome is in the
doing.
It's in taking the messy actionand you show yourself what
you're made of.
You show yourself that you cantrust yourself.
Mak (38:59):
Yeah.
Valerie (39:01):
And you get to know yourself when you do it.
The clarity comes from thedoing.
Mak (39:08):
It's so true.
It's like let's look at thispodcast like right, like if, if,
if we stick with this and intwo years we're still doing this
, we'll probably look back onthese early episodes and be like
what were we thinking?
You know, because that's justif you've got to constantly be
growing and changing and as wesee wherever this podcast goes
(39:29):
and, by the way, val and I don'thave a plan for that we have
some goals and some things, butwe're just sitting down and
doing it and letting it be messyand going forward.
But we could probably look backin a couple of years on these
episodes and be like whoa man,that was so goofy or silly, or I
can't believe we said that, Ican't believe we did that, and
that's okay because we like tofeel the progress.
(39:52):
It's like we couldn't have hadthe ninth season of Seinfeld,
which was brilliant, without thefirst season and the first
season.
It was literally the worst fiveepisodes on television history.
It was terrible.
It's kind of like the firstseason of the Office, where they
were figuring it out, but wewouldn't have had the incredible
(40:12):
sitcom of the Office if theyhadn't taken the time to work
through the mess at thebeginning.
And that's all you're doing.
And it does take some courageto be willing to work through
some of that mess a littlepublicly, because that's what's
going to happen, even if you'renot like on a platform doing it.
But your friends and yourfamily and whatever they're
going to see an experience,you're going to want to talk
(40:34):
about it a little bit.
They're going to see whatyou're doing.
It's like the cost of entranceis a little bit of embarrassment
.
You can't get success withoutbeing willing to be embarrassed,
a little bit of embarrassment.
You can't get success withoutbeing willing to be embarrassed.
And once you get over that, theidea of being comfortable,
being uncomfortable, will beyour saving grace.
And the more comfortable youcan be with being uncomfortable,
(40:56):
the more powerful you are,because you realize that
discomfort means growth.
Discomfort means mess.
Discomfort means growth.
Discomfort means mess.
Discomfort means you're on yourway and the moment you feel
comfortable, something is wrong.
That's when things are not good.
It means you've got to like,okay, now I've got to get
(41:18):
uncomfortable again to continueto grow and to develop, and that
is the part that's exciting.
But also when you're on theside of it, where you're not
starting, that looks reallyscary.
Valerie (41:28):
Well, it's choose your hard right.
Mak (41:30):
Yeah.
Valerie (41:31):
Because the not doing and choosing to sit back down,
your brain is shouting at youwho do you think you are?
No, you're not ready.
You need this and this and thisand this.
Okay, sit back down, sit backdown.
That is also hard.
We think that that is safe andkeeping us insulated, but it's
not.
That type of hard is like asoul sucking the all.
(41:55):
The spark is removed in life.
You're walking around in blackand white, you feel dead inside
and things just kind of shrivelup.
Yeah, that's, and I we'veexperienced that.
That is that feeling, that isthat hard, that, uh, brand of
hard.
This brand of hard when you'relike, okay, let's play, let's
(42:18):
get creative, let's make a mess.
Yes, you do risk being a littleembarrassed, you risk being
maybe lumped into what we weretalking about, will choose all
the time, having seen thedifference of when you operate,
(42:50):
just in that courage and youwrite that permission slip and
you give yourself which is themost important thing, you give
yourself the permission to do itmessy, to do it afraid, to do
it imperfectly, to look a littlefoolish.
Maybe you are unstoppable.
(43:12):
Like that is.
Like you said, that is thebarrier to entry.
When you get that, you, you'reunstoppable.
Mak (43:21):
Well, I, I, I had, I've started many businesses in my
life and um more of them didn'twork than did.
But when you have a few thatwork, it works out.
And you will, as long as youkeep trying.
And that's the thing.
I kept pivoting and I kepttrying something new.
Didn't work Okay, pivot, trysomething new.
Each of those failures were weretough, but I learned how to
(43:43):
grow from them.
But I had two businesses thatwere pretty spectacularly public
failures that I'll maybe talkabout on another episode, but
I'm talking like press cameras,like I looked like a fool and
those moments were hard.
They were really really, reallyhard.
(44:05):
But when I came out of theother side of those, I am so
glad I did it.
I'm so glad I tried becausethat informed so much about who
I am and led to allow me tobuild something creative and
successful later.
Creative and successful later.
(44:28):
But it was because I was willingto walk through that fire that
gave me the capability to dowhat we have done over the last
10 years, you know, creating amulti-million dollar brand and
all of this stuff and and, and Iwouldn't trade that for the
world.
I would not trade thoseexperiences for anything,
because it's made me who I amand I love it.
And it also showed me like,okay, I tried, at least I tried
(44:50):
all the armchair people thatwere sitting around going.
I can't believe that happened.
I can't believe you did that.
You know I'm like, yeah, but atleast I did it.
Because what happens when youdon't try?
When you sit there, you'reeither you're either creating or
you're consuming, and I'vealways much rather be a creator
than a consumer.
And when you sit and you stopand you don't start, you're a
(45:10):
consumer.
But when you're creating,you're creating and you're
putting things out.
And that's what I want foreverybody, because I think
everybody absolutely should becreating.
My utopia is everybody is litup, they're in, they're in that
space within them where they'refully creative and we're all
sitting around creating so muchwonderful things for everybody.
Valerie (45:31):
The magic inside each human being, what you are
uniquely suited to bring to theworld, and it's it's going to be
messy, it's like think of humanbirth.
You know it's like it's messyand it can be painful, but to
(45:52):
bring forth what you have insideof you and the magic that you
have inside of you to the world,it is so worth it.
You engaging with that part ofyou to create and get in touch
with that part, learn to trustthat part, is so worthwhile.
So, okay, people, what are theexcuses?
(46:15):
Like, what is that excuse?
I'm thinking, when I firststarted teaching painting and
landscape painting, I washearing from so many people
saying I can't call myself anartist.
And this blew my mind.
And it wasn't just one person,it was many, many people.
(46:39):
I would send out a survey atthe beginning of the course and
they were like look, I just Iwant it.
I want it so bad.
I want to be an artist, but Ijust can't call myself an artist
.
And I feel weird about that.
And I just in the beginning ofevery course, I'm I just want to
say here's how to know you'rean artist.
(47:01):
You call yourself an artist andthen you're an artist that's it
and that is literally how simpleit is that it's hard when we
are dealing with creativity.
You call yourself a creative.
You say I'm doing the thing,I'm this, this and guess what?
(47:25):
You get to be that.
Mak (47:26):
You are.
Valerie (47:27):
Just by calling it.
Artist is one of these thingswhere that's again cultural
messaging.
It's things that we're afraidto say.
I think we're afraid of hearingstarving, suffering, all of
that crap, and it stops peoplefrom stepping into these places
where their soul and their heartlongs to be.
(47:48):
And it was such a common thing.
My soul longs to create art, Iwould hear.
I used to create art In school.
I would create art, but then Istopped and I needed to move on
to more serious, importantthings that I.
I let that go, but I want that,my soul wants that and I'm
(48:12):
going.
Okay, then you are that, thefact that your soul wants that,
that means that it's for youthat means that it is you.
Mak (48:22):
There is no organization that comes along and bestows the
term artist on you, likethere's no place to apply for
that.
You wake up and you go.
You know what?
I'm a creative, I'm an artistand you're an artist.
That's it.
Valerie (48:35):
And if you feel that longing so deeply, it's because
it's you.
That is the only way you feelthat longing, because you don't
feel that about other stuff.
You know, as you go throughlife there are things that just
you could care less.
If this is something that istugging at you, it means it is
(48:56):
you, it's in there, it's insideof you.
So, like I said, we're claimingthose titles.
This is the unbound creative.
Like it's time.
It is time to remove theshackles.
Let's remove the shackles ofculture.
Let's remove the shackles ofindustry.
Don't get me started on the artindustry, that's a whole other
(49:17):
thing but we're removing theshackles.
You want it, you feel it, yousay it, say it and it is the end
.
Mak (49:25):
Period.
Valerie (49:27):
So let's write those permission slips.
We want to.
We hope that through this audiothat you are listening that you
feel our passion and our beliefin you, that there needs to be
an uprising of creatives whofeel empowered and unbound and
(49:50):
and just given the tools to beable to show up and do it messy
so what is that?
Mak (49:58):
one small action you can take today and if you say no,
I'll do it tomorrow.
I think I said it before.
Those are the words, those arethe worst words in the human
language I'll do it tomorrow.
There will nothing that willprevent you from being
(50:19):
successful in whatever it is.
You want to do more than thatphrase I'll do it tomorrow.
No, you will do it today.
And that one small action couldtake you two minutes.
Valerie (50:30):
It could literally be claiming and stepping into a new
story.
Yeah, no, I am an artist.
Mak (50:38):
It could be writing down.
I am an artist on a sheet ofpaper and taping it up on your
mirror or putting it in your car, or voice memoing yourself, or
putting a reminder in your phoneto remind you every three hours
.
Valerie (50:51):
Or thinking about that person that you're jealous of
who's living that life, and youdecide and just go all right,
why not me?
Mak (50:59):
Right.
Valerie (51:00):
Why not me?
Mak (51:01):
Maybe reach out to that, maybe send that person a DM or
an email and say I admire you, Iwant to be like you.
I'm saying just one simpleaction.
Take that action today and youwill feel so good.
And then follow that up withanother action tomorrow and the
(51:23):
day after and the day after andget going.
You don't need permission fromanybody, you just need to start.
Valerie (51:30):
And if that voice is coming up saying well, who am I
to do this?
Replace it with.
Who is anybody to do anything?
Really think?
Mak (51:39):
about that.
Valerie (51:40):
Who is anybody to do anything?
We are all human beings.
We all have a story.
We all have our uniqueindividual magic.
Who's anybody to do anything?
It's the people who write thatpermission slip to do it, and we
want that to be you.
Mak (51:58):
If you found this podcast really helpful today, please do
us a quick favor and go on Appleand leave us a review.
Give us a rating, leave us areview, because that really
helps the algorithm and helppeople find the podcast.
Go on Spotify, give us fivestars.
And we're just so grateful thatyou're listening, that you're
(52:20):
taking the time out of your dayto listen this is going to be
just under an hour, that you'retaking the time out of your day
to listen.
This is going to be just underan hour.
So if you listen to us on 1.5or 2 or 3 speed, great, we're
still glad that you're here.
Thank you so much.
I am thatmacguy on Instagram.
Mac is spelled M-A-K and Val isat Valerie McKeon on Instagram.
Dm us, let us know you'relistening.
(52:43):
If you have topics you want usto cover in future episodes,
please let us know.
We're so grateful to have yourears and we will see you very,
very soon.
Valerie (52:53):
Thank you Bye.
so we're four episodes in, and you're not sick of doing
this with me yet?
Valerie (00:14):
not yet not yet.
Mak (00:17):
We'll see.
That's good.
Valerie (00:18):
We'll see, like at episode 30, how you feel well,
I'm just waiting for us to haveour first fight on the podcast.
Mak (00:26):
Well, we're good at fighting off the podcast that
we've mastered.
Valerie (00:30):
I'm sure we'll hit a topic and we'll go at it.
We'll see.
Mak (00:35):
I guess it would be more interesting if we actually
disagreed on something ratherthan just agreeing on everything
all the time.
Valerie (00:41):
That's true, and we do disagree on things.
Mak (00:45):
Maybe we should make a list of things that we do disagree
on and actually do a coupleshows like that.
Valerie (00:51):
Although our different perspectives do tend to be maybe
not disagreeing, but because Ican see things from your
perspective, how you're comingat it.
It's just not necessarily mychosen perspective.
I choose to look at thingsdifferently.
It's just not necessarily mychosen perspective.
Like, I choose to look atthings differently.
So I don't know if that's adisagreement, but I think that's
why we are having so much fun,because these are the
(01:13):
conversations that we have wherewe'll just interject and it's
like oh well, I look at it thisway and you look at it a
different way.
It's kind of fun.
Mak (01:22):
Well, it's nice of you to say that you see things from my
perspective, so you understand,because you're just wrong.
Valerie (01:30):
Oh, yeah, okay.
Mak (01:32):
I'm just kidding.
Valerie (01:33):
You're instigating.
Now You're trying to get us tofight on the air.
Mak (01:36):
Well, you got me like okay, I want to stir things up.
I do like you know that issomething about me.
I do like you know that issomething about me.
Valerie (01:48):
I do really like getting into like arguments with
people, but hear me out, do youlike?
Mak (01:51):
debating yeah, debating is a better word, but like a
respectful disagreement.
I love that and I love itbecause I really enjoy debating.
But also I find I learn so muchmore and so often I have my
mind changed.
And I love that more thananything is when someone can
(02:11):
come at me with a topic I'mpassionate about and actually
get me to change my mind.
Then that's totally amazing.
Like I love that experience andI seek that out all the time.
Valerie (02:21):
Yeah.
Mak (02:22):
Thank you for that.
Thank you for that response.
Valerie (02:24):
Well, yeah, I'm sure that is going to happen at some
I know we'll.
Mak (02:29):
We'll do it.
Hey, I'm mac, this is val andthis is our podcast, the unbound
creative.
Thank you for hanging out withus.
Episode four, and uh, what'sour topic for today?
Valerie (02:42):
I.
I think there's something thatholds a lot of creatives back.
Well, there's a lot of things,let's face it.
Mak (02:49):
I feel like everything holds a lot of things that hold
creatives back.
Valerie (02:53):
But there is this sneaky thing that we hear come
up in different ways, and we'renot necessarily saying the thing
what it is, we're kind ofhiding it in different ways.
So what that thing is iswaiting for permission, thinking
that you need permission fromwho?
(03:16):
From your parents, from society, from whatever else, somebody
who is that you believe to becredible, or but just this
desire to have permission inorder to do well, anything that
you want, but especiallysomething creative.
Mak (03:37):
Well, I think the big one is waiting for permission from
yourself.
Valerie (03:41):
Oh, totally.
Mak (03:42):
Because we and we hide this in very clever ways we come up
with a hundred things that weneed to do in order to start
creating.
Yes, so we always like I justthis happens to me all the time.
It's like oh well, I can dothat once my office is clean.
I can do that once I've createda web page for it.
(04:03):
I can do that once I've gottenthe colors nailed down.
I can do that once I've createda webpage for it.
I can do that once I've gottenthe colors nailed down.
I can do that.
And it's like you start tonotice oh no, I'm just not doing
the thing because I'm notgiving myself permission to
start.
Valerie (04:17):
I hear artists say all the time I just need a little
bit more experience.
I'm not there yet.
I need more experience, I needmore training.
We do, we push all of it down.
It really is just fear.
I mean, that's what all of itis the waiting for permission.
(04:38):
Why are we waiting forpermission?
It really all boils down to thesame thing which everybody is
afraid.
Therefore, we want thepermission to somehow validate
us and it's like then I'm goingto feel legit, then I'm going to
feel worthwhile, then I'm goingto feel like I can do this
(05:00):
Because if we think about it,because if we think about it,
creatives in society as well arejust not treated all that great
in a lot of ways in a lot ofcircles.
Because it's almost this weirdlose kind of a lose-lose, where
(05:21):
I think, societally we hearmessages a lot of like oh,
that's cute, your cute littlehobby, or it's kind of frivolous
and fluffy.
When you try to exercise yourcreativity, it feels like, oh,
after all of the importantthings are done or in line, then
(05:44):
whatever, spare little sliversof time that you have left,
that's okay to put forth to yourcreativity.
But then we also, at the sametime, have all of this massive
pressure at the same time.
So if you start to do somethingcreative, I think people's
inclination it's like oh well,are you going to monetize that?
(06:06):
Are you going to start abusiness?
So I don't know, what do youthink?
I just feel like we get theseweird societal messages for
creatives.
Mak (06:16):
Yeah, I don't think people really know how to classify
creativity.
I have a lot to say about thisbecause I'm going to have to
gather my thoughts because mybrain's kind of pinballing right
now.
But first of all, people don'ttake creativity seriously until
you're suddenly famous.
So it's like if you're amusician, it's like, oh, he's
(06:39):
doing gigs on the weekends andisn't it nice and whatever.
He's doing gigs on the weekendsand isn't it nice and whatever.
But then you get that album orthat single and you become huge
and all of a sudden, now it'slegit.
Valerie (06:52):
Which is so ridiculous.
That's so sad, right.
Mak (06:56):
And it's really stupid because it's all that build up,
it's the doing that allows youto get to the legitimate part.
Plus, there are plenty ofmusicians who aren't super
famous but, let's say,financially successful.
But until that moment, whatyou're doing is not legit.
(07:30):
But you have to do the thing inorder to become legit.
It's like if, if, if someonewas becoming an attorney and
they're, and they're goingthrough the law school practice,
you know, getting ready.
No one goes.
Oh well, what you're doingisn't legitimate because you're
not an attorney who's in trialsyet.
But for creatives, that's whatit is I do feel like that is a
(07:52):
societal.
It is, it's like oh, you'retrying, oh you're being creative
, forget that, that's not.
You're not contributinganything.
Valerie (07:58):
It's like oh, that's cute, that's cute.
Or.
Mak (08:00):
Or this is like a oh, that's must be a nice hobby for
you.
Valerie (08:04):
It's like no, but also, but also, oh, I can get so
fired up.
That's what I mean.
Mak (08:11):
I have like 500 thoughts, and I wish I could hit pause.
We don't do that here.
Valerie (08:15):
Okay, this is all real, this is raw, this is we don't
edit.
I get so mad because we peoplealmost want to put creativity in
a box.
This is like why we'reliterally doing the podcast
(08:36):
called the right.
This is the unbound creative,not the bound creative the crux
of it all which is why I thinkwe're getting fired up, but also
like I want to say it right, atthe same time, found creative
the crux of it all, which is whyI think we're getting fired up,
but also, like I want to say itright at the same time.
So the thing is dancing withcreativity and entering that
(08:59):
realm of being creative andstarting to create something
from nothing and think in thatway, I believe, is the doorway
to a purposeful, fulfilling,meaningful, happy existence that
is not determined, based onbusiness, monetization, outward
(09:25):
success, like we hold thosethings in such high regard.
I feel like when it comes tocreatives, and then we put all
this pressure on creatives oncethey have achieved that level
right, like we see that withcelebrities and things or
musicians, for example, and thenit's like oh, they got famous
(09:47):
for a certain thing.
And then how often do we hearpeople say like, oh, that album
and they went off the rails andall this?
Mak (09:55):
stuff.
Then we judge the creativity.
There's so much here.
Valerie (09:59):
There's so much to unpack, but I feel like that
very existence of dancing withcreativity let's take away what
it could potentially become, orputting any type of label on it
at all Just the very act ofcreating will change your life.
(10:22):
You start dancing in that way,operating in that way, thinking
about life through the lens ofcreativity, through whatever
channel necessary for you to getthere.
For some people, that istraditional creative arts
painting, drawing, whatever itis, drawing, whatever it is.
(10:52):
Um, music, that can besomething that turns into a
thing, a real thing.
We see that all the time.
That happens with creatives.
However, that could also besomething that just gives you an
amazing, incredible life andthen opens you up to other ways
of being creative, in ways thataren't just relegated to the
(11:13):
traditional arts.
The arts may be a gateway intolearning these principles of
creativity and getting messy andbeing willing to be vulnerable
and take risks and everything,and then you take that way of
being and put it into everythingelse that you do.
But this isn't even gettinginto the fact that just being
(11:38):
part of the arts will changeyour literal brain, like we're
wired for it On a biologicallevel.
Mak (11:47):
Yeah, science at this point .
Valerie (11:48):
To interact with the arts, like music heals us.
Colors heal us.
Interacting with nature In away where we express that Heals
us.
Mak (12:01):
Moving through your feelings by making art Is a
medicinal drip in your brainthat can heal you and this is
like and I'm going to put thisout there, this is not like
conjecture or woo woo.
We actually know people whohave developed things that are
in the process of being approvedby the f FDA to like treat
(12:24):
cancer with music and withvisuals and with and there was a
the book your, your brain onart which dives into all of this
so do you know what that bookwas to me?
Valerie (12:36):
We're talking about permission.
That book, to me, was like onehuge, giant permission slip.
I was just like you want tomake fun of people trying to
create.
You want to say this isfrivolous and cute and a hobby.
I just want to hold up thatbook and like slam it down on
the table and be like this isthe permission.
Mak (12:57):
Well, I'm going to take this a step further and I'm
going to say I still firmlybelieve that everybody is
creative.
Every human being is creativein one way or another.
We were created to create.
That's why we're here.
So there's a part of me thatreally firmly believes that
we're so hard on creativesbecause we're actually envious
of the people who are creating.
(13:18):
We look at them creating and wego.
You can't do that becausethat's frivolous and that's dumb
and that scares me over here inmy corporate job, where I'm not
creating but secretly deep down, I want to create something,
and I think it's been more andmore prevalent in the last 10 or
(13:41):
15 years, especially with theadvent of the internet.
But with technology and whereit is how we can, well, you can
start a business literally intwo hours, in an afternoon at
home, where doing that even 20years ago was so much more
difficult than it is now.
Like you can have an idea inthe morning and be selling it
online at night.
(14:01):
That is crazy.
That has never like.
We're so fortunate to be alivein a time where that is totally
possible.
And because of that, I thinkwe're seeing more and more
people stepping into beingcreative.
Because we have that ability,the whole world is like at the
(14:22):
end of our phone or the end ofour laptop, but so I think
people are leaning into thatmore.
But also, at the same time, youhave more and more people who
are judging that, because theywant to step out and be creative
, but they're not.
So we're in like a kind of acatch-22 here, when we're
(14:53):
talking about the topic we'retalking today, which is
permission to start, and Iactually think what causes
people to get on creatives isthe fact that they're jealous of
creatives.
Does that make sense?
And it's because they want tostart.
Valerie (15:03):
Well, I'm thinking about Brene Brown and her book
Daring Greatly.
It's the same thing.
She's all about shame, ofcourse, and vulnerability as an
antidote, and empathy as anantidote to shame, but we feel
joy because of the vulnerability.
We have to have thevulnerability place peace.
(15:26):
And in Daring Greatly there'sthe quote about you're only
listening to the people who arein the rink with you.
Basically, I forget, I'm sayingit wrong, but do you know what
quote I'm talking about?
I vaguely remember I mean it'sbeen a minute, the whole book is
on that concept of thebystanders are the ones who are
(15:50):
saying these things, not thepeople in the rink.
It's like listening to thepeople in the rink who are doing
this.
But yeah, there is just thesecontradictory kind of cultural
messages we get with creativityand I think that it's especially
the plight of a creative isespecially difficult in that
(16:13):
because we do hear the culturalmessaging of this is frivolous,
this is silly, get you know, doyour adulting.
Things like this is the moreimportant things.
And come on, hello, we can gostruggling, starving, suffering,
artist all day long.
Talk about that.
So you have that on one end, butthen on the other end, for the
(16:35):
creative who is in the rank, theone doing it, it feels anything
but frivolous, it can feel soheavy.
So we ourselves are like, sofearful perfectionist, feeling
all of that weight and whatwe've talked about in our
(16:57):
previous episodes too, justabout how we're not so wired for
thriving, we're wired forsurvival.
We have a survival brain thatdoes a good job of keeping us in
line and trying to keep us safe.
So when you are overriding thatwith the biohacks we talked
(17:17):
about last time, that feels,that can feel really heavy and
really like there's a lot atstake and there's a lot on the
line.
So it's such an interestingthing that we have that
contradiction, because then wemay be hearing the messaging of
you're silly and it's frivolousand oh, what a cute little hobby
(17:39):
, but you're feeling a lot ofangst and pressure about that.
So, yeah, we want to in justthis podcast in general, we want
to empower creatives.
I think, if there's anythingthat, if it boils down to what
do we want for creatives, whatdo we want for people who listen
(18:04):
to this podcast?
We want to be the voice thatsays we see you.
We want to be the voice thatsays we see you.
It's hard to have thesedifferent messaging that comes
in, but yet we want to be thislight.
Back to yourself.
It's like come back to who youare, come back to yourself.
(18:25):
You are made to create.
You are made to do this.
The people that are saying thisand maybe keeping you from
stepping out in your fullpermission and in your full
empowerment, they are blockedthemselves.
Mak (18:44):
Well, that's why it's a catch 22.
And so that's the point is thatyou are allowed to create.
There is no level of creativitywhich is frivolous or off
limits or off limits in any way,shape or form.
So that's today's topic gettingstarted.
The secret there is literallyjust starting and paying
(19:08):
attention to your thoughts andthe things that you're doing in
order to sort of procrastinateor keep yourself from starting,
like, what is the reason youhaven't done the thing?
Now think about that reason andreally analyze it and go is
this real or is this not real?
(19:30):
What is the point?
What is the reason that youhave not yet started?
Because we need you to start.
We want you to start.
You've got to go right now.
Valerie (19:40):
It's like the why under the why, and if it has
something to do with well, I'mnot legitimate or I don't feel
as though I can warrant the timeand the money.
That's another big thing whereI've talked before about my
explorations, my own creativeexplorations that have had many
(20:02):
dead ends, like I was intoearrings for a while, which is
probably the one I've talkedabout the most, because I
invested a great deal of timeand money into doing that.
Mak (20:15):
Sure.
Valerie (20:15):
And it ended up being nothing.
Do I find that to be a waste?
No, I needed that.
That was part of a creativeexploration.
That was part of following awhisper.
Mak (20:26):
Well, any exploration that you do creatively is never
wasted Never, ever Even.
You know it's like because thisis what people do.
If they start down a path andit doesn't work out the way they
want it, or they find out theydon't enjoy it, or whatever the
case might be, they then go oh,what a waste of time, what a
waste of money, what a waste.
No, you learned so much, firstof all in trying to develop that
(20:50):
skill, but secondly, youlearned about yourself, and that
is now information you'recarrying forward into your next
creative venture or adventure.
And that is another thing thatyou've got to kind of remember
and flip on your head is if youtry something and it doesn't
work out the way you expected,you're not a failure.
You just learned that that'snot exactly for you, and then
(21:14):
you just quickly pivot and moveon to the next thing.
Valerie (21:18):
What you said learning about yourself, that's
everything.
That is everything, and the actof engaging in your creativity
and making something it is goingto put you face to face with
(21:39):
your edges.
How amazing is that the factthat you will learn something
new about yourself, the factthat it is going to uncover
those sneaky points ofresistance.
Going to uncover those sneakypoints of resistance, the sneaky
points where you are hard onyourself, or learning to maybe
unhinge from some unhelpfulthings like people pleasing or
(22:00):
worrying what others are goingto think, and getting into that.
That you of you and and thatauthenticity with am I really
enjoying this?
Is this performative?
I mean, you are going to learnso much about yourself in any
creative endeavor that you do,and this is the path.
(22:23):
There isn't really that end ofit, because the more you create,
the more you engage in that wayof being, just the more there
is creativity multiplies, it'sabundant.
So you just become in in thatrhythm of operating in a more
(22:44):
creative way and you justcontinue to learn more about
yourself.
That is so unbelievablyimportant and valid in and of
itself.
We have just given how manyreasons why engaging in this way
is basically one of the mostimportant things that you can do
(23:08):
and I believe it is worthinvesting in.
It is worth investing real time, it's worth investing real
money in to follow those things.
Mak (23:19):
Well, I also think it's ingrained within us that if
we're doing something, if it's ahobby, or if it turns it even
to a little business orsomething like that at first,
that we then say we've plantedour flag, this is who I am, this
is what I am to the world, andyou like announce it.
Oh, here is my thing, here ismy creative outlet.
Here it is.
This is me, but guess what it?
(23:42):
It doesn't have to be that you,you are allowed to change your
mind at any moment and pivot ifit's uncomfortable or if it's
something you realize you don'tenjoy, and you find something
better or something else youwant to do.
And and that's the thing it'slike we all get caught up in
this idea that this is my life.
(24:04):
This is my life, this is who Iam.
Look, look at snoop dogg.
We use him as an example allthe time.
He started out as a rapper andis now like a winery owner and
martha stewart's best friend andan olympic ambassador and doing
children's uh affirmations andall this.
So this guy I mean you gottalove this guy, because he
(24:27):
started as one thing and hasmorphed into like 15 other
things.
Valerie (24:32):
It's just creativity on display.
Mak (24:34):
What is so great about him is he just follows that creative
calling, and so many people areafraid to do that.
And even if you, like me, Ihave so many different interests
and I do so many differentthings.
I went on my Instagram theother day and give like a 15
minute speech about why I'mcoaching now, when for the last
(24:55):
20 years, people have seen me doradio and start businesses and
all this other stuff.
And it's like you know, andthat's because I'm allowed to do
that I can do what I wantwhenever I want.
I want and that's what you haveto keep in mind too is no
matter what you're doing, youcan pivot at any moment and you
(25:19):
just follow that creative partof you and you will get probably
to someplace you never expected.
But the problem is you don'tstart, and this is another one
of those blockers is it'sbecause it feels like if I go in
on this, if I say, okay, I'mgoing to start investing time
and money in this, this is myfuture.
I have to make this work, andso many people get caught in
something they don't enjoy doingand they don't love because
(25:41):
they're stuck on the idea.
Well, I got started, so I haveto stick with it.
And that's not always true,because when you are truly lit
up and you love what you'redoing and it is a fulfilling
adventure, when the creativity,when you would work 80 hours a
week on it for no pay, then youknow it's lit up and it's
(26:03):
aligned and it feels great.
So if you're into something andyou're not digging it, you can
pivot, and that's another reasonpeople don't start.
So he's got all these reasons.
So if you're into something andyou're not digging it, you can
pivot, like and that's anotherreason people don't start so
he's got all these reasons.
And and it's just like, no,just do it.
Just like.
If you have that inkling, justgo try it.
It doesn't mean that that'sdefining you now for the rest of
(26:25):
your life.
You're allowed to do that Right.
Valerie (26:29):
We want this.
We want somebody else, almostwith this idea of permission, to
say you know, I choose you todo this and it just isn't going
to happen.
That's the thing.
Nobody is going to come intoyour DMs and be like, hey, you
know, I've really I've've seenthis and I think you should, you
(26:51):
should do this.
It's like we're sitting aroundalmost waiting for that
permission slip to come, but youwrite your own permission slip
at every turn.
Anything that you want to do,you are able to do it.
Just by thinking that you can,thinking that you're able, and
that is going to separate somany people from living lives
(27:16):
that feel creatively lit up,from staying stuck.
This idea of you get to chooseyourself, like there's nobody
out there that needs to chooseyou, or say, hey, this is
legitimate now, or you've workedreally hard and you've earned
the right to explore somethingthat you want to explore, or
(27:38):
whatever.
None of that is going to happen.
It all comes from within youand you can be the one, like you
were saying, holding the penaway from writing your own
permission slip because of fearand all of the things that you
think you have to check theboxes on, like, oh, is this
going to be a long lasting thing?
Oh, I don't know.
All right, I'm not going towrite the permission slip to
(27:59):
even begin.
Do I have it all figured out?
Well, no, I don't.
Okay, I'm not going to writethe permission slip to begin.
It's like we hold that pen inour hands, but we want everybody
to know that you can write itat any moment, and that is what
is going to separate the peoplethat have lives doing what they
(28:21):
want to do and the ones thatdon't.
Mak (28:25):
And there is evidence of that everywhere.
There is evidence of thateverywhere.
I mean anyone you can think ofwho is successful, from famous
rich billionaires to people inyour community who have really
cool businesses, or you knowthings that they're doing or
artists that you know.
It's like that is thedifference they just started,
(28:47):
they just they just did it, theyjust went for it.
So take a moment right now andreally examine.
Like I think is as if you havebeen thinking about something or
a couple of things during thisconversation that kind of came
up and like, yeah, I haven'tdone this, I haven't.
Yeah, I kind of I've alwayswanted to do this or whatever I
want you to.
I want you to like what is thefirst little step?
(29:09):
Like it doesn't have to be anall in all or nothing thing, but
of the things that you want totry, what is the first small
step that you can take today toget started?
Because that first small stepfeels like a massive
accomplishment and it could bewriting something down on a
(29:32):
piece of paper, it could bemaking a phone call, it could be
sending an email, I don't know.
It could be starting a journalto figure out what the next
steps are.
Take a moment and think aboutthat, because that is a huge
thing.
If you've been waiting, and youhave been waiting for
permission from the world, fromsociety, from your friends, from
your family or, moreimportantly, from yourself, take
(29:56):
that small step forward today.
What is it that you can do?
That small action will go along, long way.
Valerie (30:02):
Just give yourself the green light.
I mean, it really is.
It's going to be courage totake that step and write that
slip on your own.
But here's the thing we look atother people doing things that
maybe we want to do, and if youhave a pang of jealousy for that
(30:23):
, that is such a gift, becausethat is a really good indicator
that somebody is operating in away that you are holding
yourself apart from.
So if you feel those pangs ofjealousy, it's a really good
kind of just redirect, to belike Ooh interesting, why am I
(30:45):
feeling that way?
What is it about this that I amnot experiencing in my life?
That's giving that to me, andit's just a really good gauge to
use when we're feeling jealous,because you're probably not
giving yourself permissionsomewhere.
Mak (31:07):
And the same thing is true with criticism, Like when you,
when you start to feel like youyou need to criticize somebody
who's doing something.
Examine that, because allcriticism is self-criticism, All
Chris.
So that's a good thing toremember.
When someone criticizes you,they're actually there's
something going on with them.
But, more importantly, when youare seeing someone doing
(31:29):
something you feel jealous oryou feel the need to criticize
or critique, take a breath andexamine why.
Why is that thing kind ofmaking you boil a little bit
under the surface?
Kind of making you boil alittle bit under the surface,
and I promise you will be somuch happier once you examine
that and get to where that'scoming from inside in your heart
(31:50):
and your soul and you exercisethat a little bit and you go oh
OK, I know what I need to do.
It makes such a big difference.
Valerie (32:01):
Yeah, and the other thing with jealousy when we see
that it's actually a really coolthing that if we can see the
example of something, somebodyelse, that we want to do, or a
life that we want to have orsomething creative that we want
to be bringing forth, the factthat we're seeing the example of
(32:23):
it, it's like it exists, it'salready here.
That is such another cool thing.
Like you said, how many peoplethey're just writing their own
permission slips and we'rewitnessing that they're not.
Nobody chose them, especiallyat first.
Even if they're the mostsuccessful, they had to choose
(32:46):
themselves at one point andwrite their own permission slip
to do that.
But when we can see thathappening, that gives us,
instead of the jealousy weshould be going oh, okay, well,
we can say, why not me?
In a way that is jealous.
(33:06):
Of course, it's all in how youframe it Like, oh, it's
happening to them, why not me?
I'm going to be all jealous andeverything.
Or we can say, yeah, why notyou?
Look, we see the example of it.
This person is doing it, thisperson is living that life.
What makes them different fromyou?
Nothing, you know.
(33:27):
It's probably a lot to do withcourage and action to do it.
But why not you, why notanybody?
Who is anybody to do anything?
Mak (33:37):
well, and and the difference between people who
are are successful in theircreativity and this is this goes
for everybody, not just beingsuccessful in your creative
business and all that.
The difference between peoplewho are successful and who
aren't sorry to put it bluntlyis action.
It's literally action.
(33:57):
They took action and it'susually consistent action, and
that's what this episode is allabout.
It's inaction.
We're not starting becausewe're afraid to take action.
Valerie (34:10):
And we think we need permission.
Mak (34:12):
But nobody.
Nothing that you see,experience, feel, smell, taste,
anything would exist if somebodyhadn't taken an action upon a
creative thought.
That's the only differencebetween them is you.
They took action, and actionwill beat talent every single
(34:32):
time.
There's so many really talentedpeople who never take action,
so we'll never know what it isthat they have to offer the
world, and it's sad and thatpains me, which is part of the
reason why we're doing thispodcast, but that's it.
I.
That pains me, which is part ofthe reason why we're doing this
podcast, but that's it.
I mean, literally, action iseverything.
Valerie (34:49):
And I want to interject messy action, messy action,
that's good.
Not figured out the whole wayhow this is going to go.
It's one foot in front of theother.
It's courageous, messy,imperfect action.
And you do that and you're notwaiting for that to happen.
(35:10):
You're willing to sit in themuck of your own discomfort
because it is going to be messy.
That's how you build anything.
That's how you paint a painting, anything.
That's how you paint a painting.
That's how you build a business.
It's all just imperfect, messyaction after action after action
(35:32):
, and you don't quite see whereit's headed.
You might have a goal, andthat's okay, but it is that,
that showing up, putting thatone stroke, the one step after
another, that's the determiner.
Mak (35:50):
Have you ever baked a cake?
Have you ever made acomplicated, complex dinner?
It's messy, it gets reallyreally messy, but the result is
something really incredible andreally nourishing.
And that's what this is.
It's the same thing.
You, you, you.
You have to get your handsdirty, because that's the fun
(36:11):
part.
The fun part is the actualaction of the building, of the
doing of the thing, not theresult.
When, when a musician is isrecording a song, they love the
process in the studio.
When a musician is recording asong, they love the process in
the studio.
That's when they get toexercise all the creative
thought and try and play and seewhat works and what doesn't.
(36:32):
And this is where, like,producers come in and it gets
really exciting.
When the song is done, that'sgreat, but that's it.
It's done and it's off, andthat's it.
They want to get back to thestudio.
They want to get back towriting.
They want to get back to themessy part off, and that's it.
They want to get back to thestudio.
They want to get back towriting.
Valerie (36:46):
They want to get back to the messy part.
So if you're waiting on thepermission, what is that telling
you?
Okay, and especially when itcomes to yourself and your
permission that you're notgiving yourself because you're
saying I need more training, Ineed more credentials, I need
more experience, I need moretime, I need more money, all of
these things that we say we'reholding ourselves apart from
(37:09):
doing whatever it is that youwanna do and we have all of
these reasons why the permissionis going to come when I have
this thing, but all that isreally saying it's trying to
protect you from just gettingmessy and taking an imperfect
next step.
We think that when we'refurther down the line and we
(37:29):
have more credentials or we havemore experience, that the mess
is somehow not going to be themess, but it's still going to be
the mess.
Mak (37:39):
It's just a bigger mess.
It's just a bigger mess, butthat's also the.
Valerie (37:45):
That is what is required, Right, the only way
out of the mess is through themess.
There's no bypassing, there isno you know pass, go collect
$200, like go right to go, Likewe're not getting that.
Mak (38:01):
And you know what it would be boring if it was like like we
, you know, if you, if you wantto, if you want to be the
world's greatest golfer, and youcould just snap your fingers
and you were, you got a genie ina bottle and you could be the
world's greatest golfer.
It might be fun for like alittle while, but it would be
terrible after a while becauseyou would just win every single
(38:22):
round and that would no longerbe fun.
But the but.
If you start and you learn andyou're and you're constantly
evolving and growing andpracticing in your golf game and
all of this, that's the partthat's fun.
Valerie (38:37):
That's the part that's fun, that's where you're growing
I was thinking what that wouldbreed is imposter syndrome.
If, all of a sudden, you knowthere would just be this level
of imposter syndrome, if all ofa sudden you know there would
just be this level of impostersyndrome.
I feel like the antidote toimposter syndrome is in the
doing.
It's in taking the messy actionand you show yourself what
you're made of.
You show yourself that you cantrust yourself.
Mak (38:59):
Yeah.
Valerie (39:01):
And you get to know yourself when you do it.
The clarity comes from thedoing.
Mak (39:08):
It's so true.
It's like let's look at thispodcast like right, like if, if,
if we stick with this and intwo years we're still doing this
, we'll probably look back onthese early episodes and be like
what were we thinking?
You know, because that's justif you've got to constantly be
growing and changing and as wesee wherever this podcast goes
(39:29):
and, by the way, val and I don'thave a plan for that we have
some goals and some things, butwe're just sitting down and
doing it and letting it be messyand going forward.
But we could probably look backin a couple of years on these
episodes and be like whoa man,that was so goofy or silly, or I
can't believe we said that, Ican't believe we did that, and
that's okay because we like tofeel the progress.
(39:52):
It's like we couldn't have hadthe ninth season of Seinfeld,
which was brilliant, without thefirst season and the first
season.
It was literally the worst fiveepisodes on television history.
It was terrible.
It's kind of like the firstseason of the Office, where they
were figuring it out, but wewouldn't have had the incredible
(40:12):
sitcom of the Office if theyhadn't taken the time to work
through the mess at thebeginning.
And that's all you're doing.
And it does take some courageto be willing to work through
some of that mess a littlepublicly, because that's what's
going to happen, even if you'renot like on a platform doing it.
But your friends and yourfamily and whatever they're
going to see an experience,you're going to want to talk
(40:34):
about it a little bit.
They're going to see whatyou're doing.
It's like the cost of entranceis a little bit of embarrassment
.
You can't get success withoutbeing willing to be embarrassed,
a little bit of embarrassment.
You can't get success withoutbeing willing to be embarrassed.
And once you get over that, theidea of being comfortable,
being uncomfortable, will beyour saving grace.
And the more comfortable youcan be with being uncomfortable,
(40:56):
the more powerful you are,because you realize that
discomfort means growth.
Discomfort means mess.
Discomfort means growth.
Discomfort means mess.
Discomfort means you're on yourway and the moment you feel
comfortable, something is wrong.
That's when things are not good.
It means you've got to like,okay, now I've got to get
(41:18):
uncomfortable again to continueto grow and to develop, and that
is the part that's exciting.
But also when you're on theside of it, where you're not
starting, that looks reallyscary.
Valerie (41:28):
Well, it's choose your hard right.
Mak (41:30):
Yeah.
Valerie (41:31):
Because the not doing and choosing to sit back down,
your brain is shouting at youwho do you think you are?
No, you're not ready.
You need this and this and thisand this.
Okay, sit back down, sit backdown.
That is also hard.
We think that that is safe andkeeping us insulated, but it's
not.
That type of hard is like asoul sucking the all.
(41:55):
The spark is removed in life.
You're walking around in blackand white, you feel dead inside
and things just kind of shrivelup.
Yeah, that's, and I we'veexperienced that.
That is that feeling, that isthat hard, that, uh, brand of
hard.
This brand of hard when you'relike, okay, let's play, let's
(42:18):
get creative, let's make a mess.
Yes, you do risk being a littleembarrassed, you risk being
maybe lumped into what we weretalking about, will choose all
the time, having seen thedifference of when you operate,
(42:50):
just in that courage and youwrite that permission slip and
you give yourself which is themost important thing, you give
yourself the permission to do itmessy, to do it afraid, to do
it imperfectly, to look a littlefoolish.
Maybe you are unstoppable.
(43:12):
Like that is.
Like you said, that is thebarrier to entry.
When you get that, you, you'reunstoppable.
Mak (43:21):
Well, I, I, I had, I've started many businesses in my
life and um more of them didn'twork than did.
But when you have a few thatwork, it works out.
And you will, as long as youkeep trying.
And that's the thing.
I kept pivoting and I kepttrying something new.
Didn't work Okay, pivot, trysomething new.
Each of those failures were weretough, but I learned how to
(43:43):
grow from them.
But I had two businesses thatwere pretty spectacularly public
failures that I'll maybe talkabout on another episode, but
I'm talking like press cameras,like I looked like a fool and
those moments were hard.
They were really really, reallyhard.
(44:05):
But when I came out of theother side of those, I am so
glad I did it.
I'm so glad I tried becausethat informed so much about who
I am and led to allow me tobuild something creative and
successful later.
Creative and successful later.
(44:28):
But it was because I was willingto walk through that fire that
gave me the capability to dowhat we have done over the last
10 years, you know, creating amulti-million dollar brand and
all of this stuff and and, and Iwouldn't trade that for the
world.
I would not trade thoseexperiences for anything,
because it's made me who I amand I love it.
And it also showed me like,okay, I tried, at least I tried
(44:50):
all the armchair people thatwere sitting around going.
I can't believe that happened.
I can't believe you did that.
You know I'm like, yeah, but atleast I did it.
Because what happens when youdon't try?
When you sit there, you'reeither you're either creating or
you're consuming, and I'vealways much rather be a creator
than a consumer.
And when you sit and you stopand you don't start, you're a
(45:10):
consumer.
But when you're creating,you're creating and you're
putting things out.
And that's what I want foreverybody, because I think
everybody absolutely should becreating.
My utopia is everybody is litup, they're in, they're in that
space within them where they'refully creative and we're all
sitting around creating so muchwonderful things for everybody.
Valerie (45:31):
The magic inside each human being, what you are
uniquely suited to bring to theworld, and it's it's going to be
messy, it's like think of humanbirth.
You know it's like it's messyand it can be painful, but to
(45:52):
bring forth what you have insideof you and the magic that you
have inside of you to the world,it is so worth it.
You engaging with that part ofyou to create and get in touch
with that part, learn to trustthat part, is so worthwhile.
So, okay, people, what are theexcuses?
(46:15):
Like, what is that excuse?
I'm thinking, when I firststarted teaching painting and
landscape painting, I washearing from so many people
saying I can't call myself anartist.
And this blew my mind.
And it wasn't just one person,it was many, many people.
(46:39):
I would send out a survey atthe beginning of the course and
they were like look, I just Iwant it.
I want it so bad.
I want to be an artist, but Ijust can't call myself an artist
.
And I feel weird about that.
And I just in the beginning ofevery course, I'm I just want to
say here's how to know you'rean artist.
(47:01):
You call yourself an artist andthen you're an artist that's it
and that is literally how simpleit is that it's hard when we
are dealing with creativity.
You call yourself a creative.
You say I'm doing the thing,I'm this, this and guess what?
(47:25):
You get to be that.
Mak (47:26):
You are.
Valerie (47:27):
Just by calling it.
Artist is one of these thingswhere that's again cultural
messaging.
It's things that we're afraidto say.
I think we're afraid of hearingstarving, suffering, all of
that crap, and it stops peoplefrom stepping into these places
where their soul and their heartlongs to be.
(47:48):
And it was such a common thing.
My soul longs to create art, Iwould hear.
I used to create art In school.
I would create art, but then Istopped and I needed to move on
to more serious, importantthings that I.
I let that go, but I want that,my soul wants that and I'm
(48:12):
going.
Okay, then you are that, thefact that your soul wants that,
that means that it's for youthat means that it is you.
Mak (48:22):
There is no organization that comes along and bestows the
term artist on you, likethere's no place to apply for
that.
You wake up and you go.
You know what?
I'm a creative, I'm an artistand you're an artist.
That's it.
Valerie (48:35):
And if you feel that longing so deeply, it's because
it's you.
That is the only way you feelthat longing, because you don't
feel that about other stuff.
You know, as you go throughlife there are things that just
you could care less.
If this is something that istugging at you, it means it is
(48:56):
you, it's in there, it's insideof you.
So, like I said, we're claimingthose titles.
This is the unbound creative.
Like it's time.
It is time to remove theshackles.
Let's remove the shackles ofculture.
Let's remove the shackles ofindustry.
Don't get me started on the artindustry, that's a whole other
(49:17):
thing but we're removing theshackles.
You want it, you feel it, yousay it, say it and it is the end
.
Mak (49:25):
Period.
Valerie (49:27):
So let's write those permission slips.
We want to.
We hope that through this audiothat you are listening that you
feel our passion and our beliefin you, that there needs to be
an uprising of creatives whofeel empowered and unbound and
(49:50):
and just given the tools to beable to show up and do it messy
so what is that?
Mak (49:58):
one small action you can take today and if you say no,
I'll do it tomorrow.
I think I said it before.
Those are the words, those arethe worst words in the human
language I'll do it tomorrow.
There will nothing that willprevent you from being
(50:19):
successful in whatever it is.
You want to do more than thatphrase I'll do it tomorrow.
No, you will do it today.
And that one small action couldtake you two minutes.
Valerie (50:30):
It could literally be claiming and stepping into a new
story.
Yeah, no, I am an artist.
Mak (50:38):
It could be writing down.
I am an artist on a sheet ofpaper and taping it up on your
mirror or putting it in your car, or voice memoing yourself, or
putting a reminder in your phoneto remind you every three hours
.
Valerie (50:51):
Or thinking about that person that you're jealous of
who's living that life, and youdecide and just go all right,
why not me?
Mak (50:59):
Right.
Valerie (51:00):
Why not me?
Mak (51:01):
Maybe reach out to that, maybe send that person a DM or
an email and say I admire you, Iwant to be like you.
I'm saying just one simpleaction.
Take that action today and youwill feel so good.
And then follow that up withanother action tomorrow and the
(51:23):
day after and the day after andget going.
You don't need permission fromanybody, you just need to start.
Valerie (51:30):
And if that voice is coming up saying well, who am I
to do this?
Replace it with.
Who is anybody to do anything?
Really think?
Mak (51:39):
about that.
Valerie (51:40):
Who is anybody to do anything?
We are all human beings.
We all have a story.
We all have our uniqueindividual magic.
Who's anybody to do anything?
It's the people who write thatpermission slip to do it, and we
want that to be you.
Mak (51:58):
If you found this podcast really helpful today, please do
us a quick favor and go on Appleand leave us a review.
Give us a rating, leave us areview, because that really
helps the algorithm and helppeople find the podcast.
Go on Spotify, give us fivestars.
And we're just so grateful thatyou're listening, that you're
(52:20):
taking the time out of your dayto listen this is going to be
just under an hour, that you'retaking the time out of your day
to listen.
This is going to be just underan hour.
So if you listen to us on 1.5or 2 or 3 speed, great, we're
still glad that you're here.
Thank you so much.
I am thatmacguy on Instagram.
Mac is spelled M-A-K and Val isat Valerie McKeon on Instagram.
Dm us, let us know you'relistening.
(52:43):
If you have topics you want usto cover in future episodes,
please let us know.
We're so grateful to have yourears and we will see you very,
very soon.
Valerie (52:53):
Thank you Bye.
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