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March 10, 2025 29 mins

Valerie and Mak McKeehan launch their new podcast, The Unbound Creative, dedicated to helping creatives break free from societal constraints and self-imposed limitations to discover a more expansive, authentic creative life.

• Creativity is an essence of being, not just an act—bringing forth something that didn't exist before

• Our brains are wired to resist creativity and change, operating from a protection mechanism

• The soul craves adventure and expression while the brain seeks safety and comfort

• True fulfillment comes through experiencing flow state rather than merely achieving calm

• Permission to iterate and evolve is essential—you don't have to stick with your first idea forever

• Creativity operates from abundance—the more you light up, the more you light others up

• Breaking free from outdated myths like the "starving artist" narrative opens new possibilities

• Embracing discomfort is necessary for growth—when you feel comfortable, you're not expanding

Connect with us on Instagram @valeriemckeehan and @thatmakguy to share your thoughts and creative journey.


Thanks for listening to The UnBound Creative!


If today’s episode resonated with you, share it with a friend or leave us a review, it helps more creatives discover the show.

💌 Connect with us on Instagram:
@valeriemckeehan & @thatmakguy (that’s Mak with a K!)


Keep creating bravely. We’re so glad you’re here.

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mak (00:05):
I almost can't believe that I'm the first one talking all
of a sudden.
I think that's probably goingto take a bunch of people by
surprise.

Valerie (00:13):
I know who is this.

Mak (00:14):
And what is this podcast?

Valerie (00:17):
It's a whole new thing, you guys.
We have so much to tell you,and it's been a few months so it
feels like we're kicking off2025.
We're kicking off a brand newpodcast.

Mak (00:32):
Can we even say kicking off 2025?
We're almost three months in.

Valerie (00:39):
Well, since we've had an episode, yeah, that's true.

Mak (00:43):
Well, three months into 2025, I mean.

Valerie (00:46):
Well, hey, it doesn't matter, we're here, we are ready
to go.
We are so excited.
So I'm Valerie McKeon.
This is my husband.

Mak (00:56):
Hello.

Valerie (00:57):
Mac McKeon.
We have done a few episodestogether on what was well, the
Dear Creative Soul podcast.
Then it was the PeacefulCreative podcast, and I feel
like I've been on this journeyof finding a place to land that
feels like home and reiterating,pivoting, changing things,

(01:21):
making my own rules, gettingmessy, which is so much of what
we're going to be talking aboutnow in this podcast, which is
really fitting that we are doingthis right now.
But it was so funny because atthe end of 2024, we did those
joint podcast episodes togetherand loved it, really enjoyed it,

(01:45):
and you guys did too, becausethat was what we heard the most.

Mak (01:51):
Yeah, we got a lot of fan mail about that.
So we were like you know, maybethere's something to this, and
we were going to take a littlebreak through December and then
Val was going to come back anddo her normal thing.
But since that time too, valand I started teaching a program

(02:15):
together and we did a boot camptogether, and there seems to be
some kind of magic here.
So we thought that you knowwhat where we're headed with our
businesses and what we're doingwith our lives we might as well
come together and actually makeit official that we're going to
start hosting a podcasttogether.
So it turns out.

Valerie (02:37):
I like talking to you.

Mak (02:40):
Who would have thought yes, after being together for like
18 years, I would have thoughtyou don't want to see me anymore
.

Valerie (02:46):
But you know, what's funny about it is, we're all
about finding those points ofease, and that's something
that's going to be a theme thatyou're going to hear with us
about your creative journey andfinding those points of ease.
We make things so hard onourselves and we think that it

(03:07):
has to fit into a box, that wehave to play by these certain
rules and, oh, it has to be donethis way or we should like that
word, we should do it this way,but we want to bust through all
of that.
Hence the unbound creative.
It is for creatives who arebusting down those boxes.

(03:29):
So when we, when I was thinkingabout this, about this idea of
ease, it just feels so naturalbecause literally these are the
conversations that we just haveover dinner.
We put the girls to bed andit's like you and I are talking
creativity, we're talkingbusiness and all of these things

(03:51):
, and so it just feels like whydon't we just have that
conversation instead of the paththat it was before, which I
completely enjoyed?
But there is something justreally fun about having the
conversations that we're alreadyhaving.

Mak (04:09):
And I think yeah, I think too because you and I are.
I think we work as a couplebecause we're so dynamic and you
and I are so different in somany ways, but also in many ways
we're the same.
And so we've figured it out andlook, we're not coming on here

(04:32):
as like, hey, we're this perfectcouple who's got everything
figured out, because we're notand we fight all the time.
We actually like had a minifight right before we hit record
.
So you know, that's not us.
We're on here to be real withyou about all things.
Here to be real with you aboutall things creativity, being an
unbound creative, and what doesthat mean?
And at our core, you know, forthe last year, I think, or more,

(04:53):
but really more intently overthe last year, pretty much since
we moved, we've really beenfocusing on our sort of issues
with the way creatives have beentreated in the world, in
society, in the way they've beenthought of for years and years
and years, and we somehow becamealigned in what you and I each

(05:20):
want to do.
There is a slightdifferentiator between what you
and I do, but what you've beendoing with all of your programs
and your coursework andeverything you've been teaching
visual art wise.
I've been building up acoaching business that is
focused on creativity andhelping creatives unleash a part

(05:42):
of themselves that they'vetamped down, and mine has been
really business focused and itwas like we keep having these
conversations over over dinneror you know, in the car driving
or in the hot tub or whatever,and we're like we're doing the
same thing.

Valerie (05:58):
Yeah, like we both arrived individually at.
This is what we're reallypassionate about and what we're
passionate about helping otherpeople with and unlocking in
them, and it is.
We have such a differentapproach to that, but at the
core, what we thought is thisgetting to, and it really is

(06:23):
unlocking and unleashingcreatives in the world to do
their unique bit of magic in anunbound freeway, with more
beauty being put in it, morepeople who are creatively lit up

(06:45):
, not cowering under industrystandards or the have-tos or the
messaging that we hearculturally about creatives, but
people who are just standing intheir fullness of their
expression.
What in the world could peoplecreate from that place?

Mak (07:07):
And I want to say I want to put a little caveat there.
When you say we want morebeauty in the world, I don't
want people to think we're justtalking about visual artists.
We're saying any form ofcreativity creates beauty.
I firmly believe that you canbe an accountant and you can
bring beauty into the world ifyou're truly lit up and you're

(07:27):
creative about the way you doyour job as an accountant and
that's like who you are and whoyou're meant to be and you own
it and you love it.
You can bring tons of beautyinto people's worlds by like
being fully you being fully whoyou are, fully you being fully
who you are.
And I think that that is issomething that that people like

(07:49):
this is.
Where the world has kind of goneastray is is a lot of people
are square pegs, trying to bepounded into round holes because
they've been told that any typeof creative thought or
creativity within them isfrivolous and unworthy and
stupid and childish and shouldbe put aside for real, honest

(08:12):
work, for something else thatmatters.
Like creativity doesn't meananything.
So go be X, y, z, go do thisjob, go do that job, but
secretly you're in that job youmight actually be really good at
it.
But just because you're reallygood at something doesn't mean
that you love that thing, and sothat's where, like these, these

(08:36):
angles all come together andcreativity together, and
creativity is an essence.

Valerie (08:43):
Like you said, I don't even necessarily think that
we're looking at creativity asan act.
Necessarily, it certainly is.
I'm, of course, a visual artist.
We're going to speak to that.
However, I think creativity asthe essence of being, because

(09:04):
what does that really mean?
What does it mean to becreative at the essence?
It means bringing forthsomething that didn't exist
before.
It means producing, puttingsomething out there, making
something from nothing.
It involves a spontaneity, itinvolves risk-taking, putting

(09:27):
yourself out there in a way thatfeels unknown and a little
uncontrollable and uncomfortable, because that very act of
creating something from nothingcomes with the territory of.
This is scary, this is unknown,and that is also a big kicker
to me about the things that wehear in our culture, about the

(09:51):
frivolousness, about thechildish nature of it and all of
that.
Is that the act of creativity?
If we're talking about the veryessence of creativity, it
involves going into the unknownand taking risks.
Well, guess what?
We have brains as humans thataren't super wired for that.

(10:13):
We have our systems that aregoing to go off and be like no,
no, danger, danger, stay thesame, stay the same, stay the
same.
So, in fact, to be a creativein this essence way that we're
talking about is to overridethat system, to be able to

(10:34):
create.
And man, that's hard, that issomething that is difficult for
anybody, because we have thatwiring to keep us safe and to
protect us.
We want that to be the casebecause if we didn't have that,
we would all walk outside andjust walk off a cliff or

(10:55):
something.
We need that wiring, but we'rewired to protect us and to stay
the same.
So to be a creative is actuallyto be a rebel.
It's to say no, I'm not willingto stay this way.
I'm willing to put myself onthe line.
I'm willing to override thissystem of fear in order to bring

(11:17):
forth something meaningful andbeautiful into the world.
And it doesn't always turn out,but it is in the act of doing
that that we Mac and I bothbelieve that we become.
We become who we are made to bewhen we can operate from that

(11:38):
essence.

Mak (11:40):
And I want to underscore here sort of what Val is saying
is, when we're talking about youoperating out of safety, what
we mean is the brain is built to, it does not want to do
anything out of the norm.
So, whatever routine or patternthat you're in right now,
whether you're happy or unhappy,if you begin to deviate from

(12:03):
that pattern even slightly, thebrain has to like work harder
because it's doing somethingelse and its job is to conserve
as much energy and burn as fewcalories as it possibly can.
I actually just heard the otherday the average brain burns 800
calories a day thinking, andwhat it's trying to do obviously
because it runs your body isit's trying to burn as few

(12:23):
calories as possible.
So what happens is when youstart to deviate from your
normal pattern, your brainfreaks out and it says stop,
don't do this thing.
This is scary, it's unknown,we're going to have a lot of
problems, we're going to have alot of problems, we're going to
have to figure things out.
And what it does is it retreatsinto your past and starts saying

(12:46):
the last time you tried todeviate, this went wrong and
this went wrong and this wentwrong and this went wrong
because it doesn't have, itcan't go and predict the future.
It only has the informationthat has been input into it.
So we get stuck in thesepatterns and when we try to step
out of those patterns, toindulge the creative part of

(13:10):
ourselves, our brains turn intofight or flight and it starts
triggering cortisol and all thisstuff and it makes us feel bad
about it and your brain actuallyactively works against you as a
creative.
Your brain actually activelyworks against you as a creative
and there are ways around thisand so on, and we'll dig into

(13:31):
all of that kind of stuff.
But that's what Val's talkingabout when she says it actively
works against you.
So it takes work, it takescourage and it takes knowing
that you can do it, that you'vegot people in your corner.
And what I always like to say iswhen you feel comfortable,
that's when you're mostdangerous, because that means

(13:52):
you're not growing, that meansyou're not getting better, that
means you're not improving, itmeans, oh, I'm comfortable, life
is comfortable.
What you need to do is bewilling to step into a place
where you are uncomfortable.
Discomfort, run towardsdiscomfort, because discomfort
means growth.
But with each step ofdiscomfort, that discomfort,

(14:13):
when you force yourself to do.
It eventually becomescomfortable, and then you move
on to the next step and the nextstep.
But so many people are afraidto step out because of what
society has said, that that actis frivolous.

Valerie (14:29):
Well, and here's the thing, Our brains are wired that
way.
That's like our biologicalhuman wiring, so there's no
point in being mad about it.
We can just invite it to comealong and just be like okay,
brain, I see you, you're lovingme, you don't want me to jump
off a cliff or get eaten by atiger or whatever.

(14:49):
You can't distinguish what'shappening here.
Okay, I get it.
I see you.
But your soul, that part of youthat is maybe you're in a place
that it just feels like you'reslowly dying inside that place,
that maybe feels disconnected,stuck or lost.
It's because your soul actuallywants this journey, it wants

(15:17):
the challenge, it wants tocreate, it wants to take a risk,
to make something, to createsomething.
That is the essence of you, andthis is why we are so jazzed
about the fact that creativitywill open you up to your entire
life, why you are made that way.

(15:41):
So, yes, we all have brainsthat are going to chatter at us
and tell us a certain thing, andtell us to step back in line or
sit back down.
Who do you think you are?
But the soul of you, theessence of you.
And I know you can feel itbecause when you let yourself go
there and you let yourself feelthose whispers that say there's

(16:04):
more, there's something,there's something here, there's
more, and that's the soul partof you, and the soul part of you
wants a romance, you want anadventure.
You're like let's go.
Why do we all cry watchingWicked and Defying Gravity and
these movies that have thisheroic character?

(16:27):
Why does it touch us so deeplyat our core?
Because we don't want to staycomfortable, we want the ride,
we want to see if we can fly,and that is what being an
unbound creative is all about.
And so this is why, to me,going down that path with the

(16:50):
peaceful creative, it feltreally good at the time.
And I think there's so muchangst around being a creative
for many reasons, many thatwe've just talked about even now
, but to me it's more thangetting to that place of like.
I feel peace.

(17:11):
That's obviously part of it.
Who doesn't want to feel peace?
Right?
But it's actually so muchbigger and wider and more
expansive and filled with a lifethat is just going to blow your

(17:33):
socks off.
That's what I want for you,that's what we want for you A
life that feels like I'm gettingchoked up, just like the
biggest version of you where youare not tamped down anymore,
you're not letting yourself staysmall anymore and you are just
on fire and lit up.

(17:54):
Lit up like a candle from theinside.
And what are you going to dofrom that place?

Mak (18:04):
That is it.
That is the essence ofeverything, and I understand why
you're so choked up, becausethe idea that that is possible
for all of us Like there'speople some of you are listening
right now and you're sayingthat's just not, that's not
doable for me, and that's whywe're here.
We're after you, because it is.
This has been made available toall of us.

(18:26):
Each and every one of us hasthe ability to do absolutely
astounding and amazing things,and when we say that, we don't
mean it in oh, you're going tobecome a celebrity who's super
famous and a multi-billionaire,or something like that.
But what we're saying is youhave the ability to live life
every single day, so lit up, soon fire, so feeling great.

(18:52):
Whether you are a rock star ora bus driver, I don't care.
It's like have you seen thatvideo online on Instagram of
that kid who sells popcorn atthe movie theater?

Valerie (19:06):
No, I haven't.

Mak (19:07):
And he's like he's this kid , I don't know, he looks like
he's in high school or maybe alittle bit older, and he you
order popcorn from this kid andhe, like, he throws the popcorn
into the bucket and he twirlsthe bucket and puts the butter
in layers and it's this wholebig show and I absolutely love

(19:28):
it.
That video almost brought me totears the first time I saw it,
because here's a guy and allhe's doing is slinging popcorn
at a movie theater and he'sputting his whole self into that
.
And now it went on Instagramand it's millions and millions,
tens of millions of views of aguy putting popcorn into a

(19:49):
bucket.
That's really cool, but he'slit up, he's so, he's full of
life, he loves what he's doing,he's giving that of himself.
So this is what I'm saying toyou Not everybody.
You don't have to be a rock star.
You don't have to be a rockstar.
You don't have to be the mostfamous person in the world.
You can walk through every dayof your life, just creatively
lit up in your life as it is now.

(20:11):
And that is what we want foreverybody, because when you're
there and when you're alignedand you're fully in the flow of
that.
It's amazing what comes intoyour life.

Valerie (20:23):
Life gets to be actually magic.
And you mentioned flow.
I heard an interview withMartha Beck and I'm about to
read her new book Beyond Anxiety, which I'm excited about.
But she said that we think wewant calm to get peace and calm.
And, of course, yes, again, whodoesn't want to feel that way?

(20:45):
She said.
But then it becomes thequestion and then what?
Because once we get to thatplace, once we calm our nervous
systems and our naturalinclination as human beings is
to create and actually we arenot the happiest when we are

(21:06):
just calm, we are the happiestwhen we are in flow state.
How cool is that?
And we are wired to get intoflow state, this magical place
where it just feels like timestands still and it feels
effortless and it feels likesomebody is almost like working

(21:28):
through you.
So it's.
I just thought that that wasreally interesting.
And in that place her wholepremise of beyond anxiety is, in
that place.
That's the antidote to anxietywhich is really cool and we just
believe that when you tap intothis essence of you, when you

(21:51):
become taking the reins of yourlife and you're gonna make
something out of this, you'regonna make something and it
doesn't matter what I mean.
It could be art, it could beactual art, but making just your
life a creative expression,living in a way that is looking
for wonder and asking questionsand getting curious and problem

(22:17):
solving in these new ways, yourlife will explode.
That soul part of you, thatinner wiring part of you, is
just going to light you up likea Christmas tree.
And in doing that, the reallycool thing it's abundant, and so

(22:37):
you start lighting up otherpeople like a Christmas tree too
.
When you're lit up like that,it's like passing the candle
around on a Christmas Eve.

Mak (22:47):
Abundance begets abundance.
This is not a zero sum game.
The more joy and happiness thatyou pour out of yourself into
others, they then become joyful,and that just keeps going and
going and going.
This is science also.
This isn't just us talking andsaying, oh, this is science Also
.
This isn't just us talking andsaying, oh, this is nice.
There's actually science thatbacks all of this up now, which
is a great, one of the greatthings about being alive right

(23:10):
now.
And so that's the.
This is just the tip of theiceberg, not even the tip.
This is like a snowflake on thetip of the iceberg of what we
want to cover in this podcast,and why, after, I think, all of
these years of you and I tryingto like do something separate,
we finally were just like no,we're going to do it together.
Because so, if you're new here,val has mentioned the peaceful

(23:33):
creative a couple of times, andthat's because this podcast was
originally called dear creativesoul and then this fall, valerie
branded it as the peacefulcreative did like four episodes
or five episodes, and now herewe are and we're rebranding it
again.
But this is one of the thingsthat we want to talk about, as a

(23:53):
creative is, you are allowed toiterate.
So often we think, oh, I createdthis thing, I put my flag in
the sand, this is what it has tobe forever.
And the truth is you know what?
Nobody's really paying thatclose attention.
And do you care if we changethe name of the podcast and this
and that?
No, no, you probably don't.
And so we're leading the way byshowing you don't have like we

(24:16):
could.
Hey, look, you can do whateveryou want, you can do whatever
you want.

Valerie (24:18):
You can do whatever you want.
You can do whatever you want.

Mak (24:19):
We could change the name of the podcast in two weeks, we
bet who knows, who knows.
But the point is it doesn'thappen, especially at the
beginning.
When you're at the beginningNow, if you're running American
Express or Starbucks orMcDonald's, you may not want to
iterate and change the name ofyour company, but when you're

(24:40):
just starting that's one ofthose things that creatives deal
with is just getting started weit's like okay, I'm going to
make this big change in my lifeand everything.
Okay, and I got to here.
We go and you plan, and youplan, and then you make this big
announcement and you feel likethis is it, I have arrived, this
is my new thing.
But there's so much, there's somuch restraint and pressure and

(25:05):
you know it's.

Valerie (25:07):
It's like it's just constricting.
It's like being tied down.
It's being it's.

Mak (25:12):
It's the bound creative.
And we do that to ourselvesbecause we feel like this is my
thing and I've made thisannouncement and everybody's
paying attention and it's nottrue.
This announcement andeverybody's paying attention and
it's not true.
You get to try something and ifit doesn't quite work out the
way you want, you can iterateand try something else, and try
something else, and trysomething else, and if you do
that enough times, you're goingto find that thing.

(25:33):
But you have to go down thepaths.
You have to start down thepaths to see which one has the
right feelings.
So that's what we're doing.
So she mentioned that.
She's mentioned the peacefulcreative.
So if you're new here, that'swhat that means when she
mentions the peaceful creative.
This is now the unboundcreative and we're both really

(25:55):
excited to be here.

Valerie (25:57):
So get ready everybody.
This is expansive.
This is open heartedconversation, real conversation,
the two of us who have beencreatives in the trenches
actually doing the creative workfor our entire adult lives.

(26:18):
Really in the trenches guysLike I mean we'll tell more of
our story as this goes on, yeah,and that's like a rule of thumb
oh, tell your story in thefirst podcast.

Mak (26:26):
We're not doing that, we'll trickle that out, but I mean
we've.
We've run businesses withmulti-million dollar figures and
we've also failed at manydifferent things.
And the one common thread witheverything that we've done the
successes, the failures is itwas all rooted in creativity.

(26:47):
Val and I met in a creativespace and we have been nothing
but pursuing creativity at thehighest level we possibly can
for almost two decades.
I can't believe I'm saying that, and that's why we just want to
come share with you everythingthat we found and help you on

(27:08):
your journey and help you beginto uncover what it is that you
have the capability of doing.
And my suspicion is in the backof your mind as we've been
talking.
There's something back there,there's an inkling back there
that you've been thinking aboutduring this podcast, so we want
to get to that.

Valerie (27:26):
Yeah, I love that too, because it's been a journey like
everyone else.
We've lost our way, we've hadto come back several times.
We've had those life momentswhere it's like what are we
doing and all of it.
We've really experienced thegamut of it and have firsthand

(27:46):
just felt the ups and downs ofthis way of living and we're
just really excited because Ithink, if there's something
about us too, throughout ourcareers we've broken a lot of
rules and just kind of havetrailed our own paths, and we
want to help you do the same,because it is a big world out

(28:08):
there.
There is so much potential outthere that we do not want to see
people getting stuck underthese old ways of thinking and
old ways of being.
It does not have to do that.
It doesn't have to be that way.

Mak (28:23):
There are so many rules that have been made up and put
in place that everybody havejust sort of accepted and that's
done, that's over, that's allgot to go away.
And creativity is anything butfrivolous.
It should be celebrated and notput down the whole starving

(28:44):
artist and oh, I'm going to be amusician, oh, you're going to
be poor and living on thestreets.
Why, why?
That's not true.
If you buy into that, thenyou're going to live that out.
But there are so many peoplewho have proven all of that
wrong and I think that most ofthat is fear based on facts that

(29:05):
were made up for years andyears and years.
And we'll dive into all of this.
But we're anxious and ready toget going and help you as much
as we possibly can.

Valerie (29:16):
So thank you for listening to this first episode
of the Unbound Creative.
We're really excited to be backwith you next time.
In the meantime, we would loveto hear from you If you want to
drop us a DM on Instagram.
I am at Valerie McKeon onInstagram.
Mac is at that, Mac guy.

Mak (29:38):
Mac is M-A-K.

Valerie (29:40):
So feel free to drop us a DM, tell us if you're excited
, what you thought, and we willbe back with you again really
soon.

Mak (29:48):
Thanks guys.

Valerie (29:49):
Bye.
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