March 17, 2025 • 46 mins
If you’ve ever wondered why something you love — creating — can feel like pulling teeth to start, this is your episode. We’re unpacking the real reasons creativity feels so hard (hint: it's not because you're lazy or lack discipline) — and sharing practical mindset shifts and "biohacks" that will help you make creating feel easier, lighter, and even fun again.
We’re diving deep into:
✨ Why your brain naturally resists creativity — and how to outsmart it
✨ The myth of "laziness" and why you’re not broken
✨ Why perfectionism and fear of failure are wired into all of us
✨ The three questions that will instantly make creativity feel lighter
✨ How to flip the script on self-doubt and procrastination
This is a permission slip to be a messy, joyful, imperfect creative — and to stop making it so freaking hard on yourself.
🎧 Grab your coffee, and let’s talk about how to finally get out of your own way.
Check us out on Instagram: @valeriemckeehan and @thatmakguy. Shoot us a DM, let us know what you think or if you have a topic you'd like us to cover.
Thanks for listening to The UnBound Creative!
If today’s episode resonated with you, share it with a friend or leave us a review, it helps more creatives discover the show.
💌 Connect with us on Instagram:
@valeriemckeehan & @thatmakguy (that’s Mak with a K!)
Keep creating bravely. We’re so glad you’re here.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Valerie (00:07):
I kind of feel like doing these episodes and
starting is like improv comedywell, they have to be funny for
it to be comedy.
Well, we don't know what eachother is going to say.
We just turn on the mic andthen you just see what happens
and it's like, okay, are yougonna talk about your dog,
what's, what is it gonna be?
And then you just yes, andhappens and it's like, okay, are
you going to talk about yourdog, what is it going to be?
And then you just yes and itand go.
(00:28):
It's like improv.
Mak (00:29):
That's radio, baby.
That's what it's always beenabout.
That's why I love this medium,because it's obviously a podcast
.
But back in the day, when talkshows were huge, that's what it
was.
I mean, you had a loose outline, which we do.
We kind of have a stack ofstuff here we want to talk about
, but you turn that mic on,you're never sure what's going
to happen.
And that's what I like about uswe're not scripted here.
Valerie (00:50):
No, I think everybody can tell that we are not
scripted.
It's true, but it makes it funbecause we just let the
conversation go where it's goingto go and what comes up is
going to come up, and it is.
Mak (01:03):
It is kind of fun and thank you guys for the uh incredible
response.
I know on the last one, I saidthat our first first one had the
most downloads we'd ever hadlike of an initial podcast, the.
The follow-up was like reallyclose behind it and that first
one is still going.
The second one's still goingtoo, obviously.
I just checked the numbersmaybe an hour ago and we're
(01:24):
shocked and we've had a lot ofmessages at this point.
Valerie (01:28):
We're so happy to hear it.
Mak (01:29):
And when you're doing this, you know this isn't.
This isn't really a two-wayconversation.
We can't like we're not seeingfaces or getting so.
It's really nice to hear fromyou so real quick.
Thank you so much forcontinuing to support and listen
.
If you know anyone who thinkswould like it, please share it
with them.
Valerie (01:45):
Yeah, and we would always love to hear your biggest
takeaways too.
You can always DM us.
I'm at Valerie McKeon onInstagram.
Mac is at that, mac guy.
Mak (01:55):
Mac is M-A-K.
Valerie (01:57):
So yeah, let us know what you're liking, what you're
taking away.
Mak (02:01):
And if you hear thunder in the background, that is not a
mischievous sound effect.
We're actually in the midst ofall, like the tornadoes and
everything happening inTennessee right now, so
hopefully we won't beinterrupted by a tornado, but
you might hear some thunder andwe might jump if there's some
lightning, because we've gotsome big windows behind us Going
off, off and on all day, allright.
Valerie (02:23):
So today we in the last couple episodes we've been
feeling like we've sort of beengiving an overarching feeling of
what we want to talk about,what we are all about.
So we want to start kind ofdeep diving on a few things.
And there's so many things.
Mak (02:44):
More than a few things.
I think we have a list of atleast a hundred.
Valerie (02:47):
That's what this podcast is about, and it's so
interesting because we areloving it so much that we want
to talk about all of it at once,and it's like, well, what about
this?
And then there's this, and thenthere's this, and so that's a
good thing.
Mak (03:05):
And if there is something that you're interested in having
us cover, that's another goodreason to DM us too, or email us
, or however you want to get intouch with us, send us ideas, or
if you have questions that youwant us to answer, am I going to
send them in.
We'll try to tackle them, yeah.
Valerie (03:16):
So today we want to talk about something that I
think so many creatives canrelate to.
Why is it that something thatwe love, something that lights
us up, to create?
I think those who are listeningare probably creative and we
(03:36):
hear that like how fun thatsounds to create something or to
engage in creativity, but whydoes it actually feel like
pulling teeth to actually do it?
Mak (03:46):
It's such a good question because it's I mean, you could
unpack this in so many ways andthere's so many great real world
examples, even this podcast.
We love doing this and this isliterally easy, but it took us
three years to finally do it andhere we are.
(04:07):
Why?
Why was it like?
What happened that kept us fromfrom proceeding, and what is it
about the things we love to doand create that keep us from
moving forward?
well, to me it's almost likegoing to the gym where well no,
because I hate going to the gymI don't know that that's a good
example unless you're like a proathlete or something and that's
(04:27):
like how you thrive.
But that's not a really goodexample for me.
It'd be like it's like eatingpeanut butter cups.
Yes, fine, Then I'm down forthat.
I guess what?
Valerie (04:35):
I mean by that is you feel so good after you do it?
Mak (04:41):
Yeah.
Valerie (04:42):
It's like why don't I always do this?
Or even after you do it, yeah,it's like, why don't I always do
this?
Or even okay, going for a walk,doing something that you know
actually feels good and fillsyou up, why do we not do those
things?
Or why is it like pulling teethto go and take a walk, even
though you know you're going tofeel amazing after that?
But I guess that's not quitethe same here with creating, but
(05:07):
still, we are such interestingcreatures, aren't we?
as human beings, we are so wiredto create.
We firmly believe that we arewired to make things, and it can
be many different things.
It doesn't have to be intraditional forms of art.
But we are wired to make fromnothing, to bring forth life in
(05:33):
what we do, to turn nothingnessinto something of value and that
has meaning.
And we are wired for that downto our very core.
We are wired for that down toour very core.
Mak (05:51):
But yet it's so interesting because our same wiring also
stops us from doing the thing itdoes.
It keeps us from doing thething that we so badly want to
do, and it's like why and thetop piece of that there really
comes down to the way our brainsare configured, and this goes
back thousands and thousands andthousands of years.
Valerie (06:14):
So many people will say I just need to stop being lazy,
I am so lazy.
No, I'll tell you right now youare not lazy.
Or somebody will say I justI've got to be more disciplined,
I got to be harder on myself, Ihave to have more willpower,
(06:34):
and these are the things we kindof try to fix this issue with
with this struggle.
But it's none of those.
It's not that you're lazy, Idon't.
You don't need to be harder onyourself in order to get
yourself to do something thatyou know is ultimately good for
you.
You are not broken.
(06:56):
Like Mac said, the real reasonshere are actually hidden in our
biological wiring, and I feellike it's kind of trendy right
now to be like biohacking.
You hear that phrase, butessentially, when it comes to
creativity, we need to biohackevery single day to override
(07:16):
certain systems that are inplace that we all have, that is
wired into us, and if we didn'thave those systems, we would
drive off a cliff, we would gooutside and get hit by a car,
like we need these systems ofsafety in place, but when it
comes to creativity, it doesn'talways serve us.
(07:40):
It makes it feel so hard andwhat we want to do is help you
make it feel light, light, easyfun again.
Mak (08:00):
Well, what's crazy is is that the idea of of safety in
real life.
Okay, fight or flight, what ourbrain is doing, preventing us
from walking off a cliff orstepping in front of a car, all
the things that it does.
Okay, you see the fire, youknow you don't put your hand in
it, you know it's like, that'slike these are all the things
that it's built for, but it'salmost like it overstepped its
bounds in creativity, and andand what I mean by that is
(08:22):
creativity is a vulnerableexpression of who we are inside.
And that safety mechanism,instead of keeping us from being
attacked by a bear because weknow how to run from one, what
it has done is it has said don'tbe vulnerable, don't fill
(08:44):
yourself with this joy, becausethat's really scary.
You're going to be concernedabout how everybody's going to
react and what everybody's goingto think, so you're better off
being comfortable and justputting on another Netflix
episode, and that's where thatwiring kind of goes off your
(09:06):
brain.
Valerie (09:07):
The bottom line, here's what it comes down to it hates
the unknown.
That's that is what that's whatit is.
It just hates the unknown.
But when you are a humancreating something from literal
nothing, there is always goingto be that element of it being
(09:27):
unknown.
You can go in with the biggestplan, you can develop your
skills and things, which we do,but still that really never
fully goes away, because we arestill operating in the unknown.
Here's what's funny about it,though and this is very much my
own story with this, this wholeway of being.
(09:49):
We think that we want that togo away, like we think that we
want that that fear element togo away, that unknown element.
This is the thing that's likekind of stopping us from getting
the momentum and getting going.
But what's funny is when youcan biohack yourself to give
(10:10):
yourself the safety to keepshowing up and building that
muscle, the unknown becomesfamiliar, and often for a
creative, that means it's timeto nosedive back into the
unknown.
So what I'm trying to say is,for me, my career started very
(10:32):
humbly.
It was just a hobby of an Etsystore with chalkboards.
I was really into it.
It was so fun.
I had never done hand lettering.
I taught myself everything.
I was so excited.
It was like studying fonts andtrying to draw them and putting
together these compositions.
I loved it, I loved it, I lovedit.
But then as my career went on,as my artistry went on, I kind
(10:58):
of I reached a level of sort ofmastery.
With that I wrote the book onit, the complete book of chalk
lettering, and I started feelingthat like dead inside, feeling
Well, what started happening?
I was almost like a machine.
I was printing out pieces ofart but yet was not operating in
(11:20):
my creativity, really hardly atall.
I wasn't pushing myself.
They're really.
I removed that level of theunknown and I really was kind of
like I could do this with myeyes closed.
Mak (11:32):
Well, it became familiar.
Valerie (11:34):
Right.
But what's funny is I was likeitching, it was like this isn't
filling me.
I don't feel creatively filledup, I feel bored, I feel like
what's next?
Ooh, let me go over here, letme experience, like experience
with these markers andeverything.
But it's so funny becausepeople think artists must be
(11:54):
these like creatively lit up,you know people.
But that is not always the case.
And what's interesting is thosefeelings of it becomes old hat
and I'm just going through themotions and I'm becoming a
little bit more of that machine.
We think because our braintells us that once you get the
desired outcomes that you wantevery single time and it feels
(12:17):
like you can't miss, your brainis tricking you into believing
that's actually what you'regoing for and what you want.
But then, coming from someonewho was there, it's like that's
actually what you're going forand what you want.
But then, coming from someonewho was there, it's like that's
not what you want.
You're a creative soul and thesoul part of you is like come on
, man like let's go, let's finda risk.
Mak (12:37):
So it's what it's what I love to say the most, and that
is, if you're truly creative andyou want to dive into the
things that you love to do, youhave to learn to be comfortable
being uncomfortable.
Once you get in that spacewhere discomfort becomes the
thing that you sort of lookforward to.
Because, like, one of myfavorite analogies of all time
(12:59):
was, there was a reporter at theOlympics and they were
interviewing all these athletesthat were about to compete and
they were, and they kept askingthe question are you nervous?
And every athlete, everyathlete, said no, I'm excited.
I'm excited, and I heard SimonSinek cover this beautifully.
(13:21):
The energy of nervousness andfear comes from the exact same
place within our biology asexcitement, and it's literally
how you decide to interpret itin your brain makes such a big
difference.
How you decide to interpret itin your brain makes such a big
(13:41):
difference.
And what happens with theseathletes is they took a
situation that could very easilybe nerve wracking or scary, and
they were trained so wellbecause they're obviously the
top of their game.
How did they get there?
They learned to be comfortablebeing uncomfortable because,
okay, let's go back to your gymanalogy at the very beginning.
If you go to the gym and itstops feeling like a workout and
(14:02):
you're just kind of likerunning along, you're not making
progress.
You're making progress when youkeep stretching yourself and
adding a little bit more pain toeach Like.
If you're lifting, if you'rerunning, you have to run faster
or longer.
If you're lifting, you got tolift more and you got to
challenge different muscles.
It's the same thing.
Creatively, what these athleteshave done is they stopped
(14:25):
looking at that as fear and asnervousness and they learn to
look at it as this is exciting.
The idea of this discomfort isactually exciting to them.
And then look where it got them.
And the same thing is true increativity.
And the reason it can be so hardto start is because we're so
(14:50):
uncomfortable with the idea ofyou name it vulnerability, with
the idea of putting somethingout there and having it be
rejected, with the idea ofputting something out there and
having it be rejected, with theidea of um, what's, uh, what's
the other word I'm looking for?
With the idea of perfectionismand like getting it perfect that
we often set up.
All of these scenarios in ourmind that are I have to do, I
(15:13):
have to have the perfect paper,I have to have the perfect
atmosphere.
I have to do that.
I have to have the perfectpaper, I have to have the
perfect atmosphere, I have tohave the perfect drink, I have
to have the perfect timing.
I have to have.
And we and we, we artificiallycreate all these hazards to keep
us from actually doing thething, when all you literally
have to sit down, all you haveto literally do is sit down and
do the thing on your task listand you just like keep putting
(15:39):
it off and putting it off, andputting it off, and then you
eventually do it and it tookfive seconds or five minutes and
you sit and you go.
Why was I putting this off forlike two weeks?
It was so dumb and it's and andso internally you're going.
Man, I let that fester in mybrain for two weeks when all I
whoa.
That was a big one.
Valerie (15:54):
I must be making an excellent point right now this
episode to listen to is gonnafeel really ominous we should
release this one at halloween,so anyway, um, so so that's
what's going on here.
Mak (16:08):
Is we, we?
It can be so hard to start,because we've come up with all
of these reasons and we'retrying to our.
Our brains are really trying usto get us to a place where
we're comfortable, and that'snot going to happen so here's
the here's biohacking toolnumber one I and we're trying to
.
Valerie (16:22):
Our brains are really trying to get us to a place
where we're comfortable.
And that's not going to happen.
So here's biohacking toolnumber one, I guess, is just
notice that, and I really, ifyou start to notice this,
because what do we say?
Come on, you know, you've saidit, we all say it.
I don't have time, I didn'tcreate or I'm not putting forth
the effort to that because Idon't have time.
Mak (16:41):
And we say that.
Valerie (16:42):
That's the number one excuse.
Tough love, I mean.
Yes, you go through periodswhere that is the case, but if
you are saying that to yourselffor months and years, it is not
the time.
It is what we're talking aboutnine times out of ten.
Mak (16:57):
It is what we're talking about, I would argue, unless
you're like hold up in thehospital or something you
actually do have time, you'rejust not making time for it and
that is a block and becausecreativity, actually, which is
going to be a whole anotherepisode, is so much more about
your being than you're doing.
(17:18):
So there's that.
Valerie (17:19):
That's a whole other episode that we could go off on
right now, where we are humanbeings, we are not human doings.
Your creativity is not aboutthe doing and the output, it's
actually about your being soside note on that, we'll come
back to it.
Mak (17:33):
But, biohack.
Valerie (17:35):
One is notice when you sit down.
Oh my goodness, I do this allthe time.
Where I'm about to.
We're doing like a 30 daychallenge right now in the
membership and I haven't done my.
I haven't done my challengetoday and my brain comes up with
all of this oh well, you needto send that email.
Oh well, you should do this.
(17:56):
Then you need to do this.
And there comes a point whereyou need to send that email.
Oh well, you should do this.
Mak (18:06):
And then you need to do this, and there comes a point
where you need to notice what'shappening and it's like wait a
second, I just need to sit downand do the thing.
The four words, these fourwords that I'm about to give you
are the antithesis of yourcreativity and your growth.
Okay, and you don't even haveto write them down, you'll
remember them.
I'll do it tomorrow.
If you're living in that rhythm, I'll do it tomorrow.
(18:28):
I'll do it tomorrow.
Tomorrow never comes.
Valerie (18:32):
You just practice procrastination, you practice
pushing it down the line.
Mak (18:37):
Mañana mañana.
Valerie (18:38):
There's something I wanted to say, mac mac, about
when you said about the olympicathletes and how they switch
that story from I'm nervous toI'm excited which you can do by
how cool there are.
There's so many.
There's so many things I wantto say about this, because I
feel like the story changeseverything.
One, the story you tellyourself, is going to change it
(18:58):
all.
And it's kind of like whensomething happens or when you
try something and it doesn'tquite pan out, or what does it
mean?
You know, we are by the verynature of who we are.
Again, in our biology, we arestorytellers.
That comes with a flip side ofthe coin.
(19:20):
The storytelling aspect of usgives us our anxiety.
It tells us all of thishorrible stuff that's going to
happen.
Our storytelling other side ofthe coin, we are just really
good at these stories.
So when we're faced withsomething like, well, what does
it mean?
You get to make it meanwhatever you want it to mean A
(19:41):
failed piece, or what does thatmean?
You make it mean what you wantit to mean.
Does it mean that you are afailure and you're no good and
you are choosing that?
You get to make it mean that.
So this is another point of thestopping and the noticing,
because you can flip that scripton.
What does it mean that?
So this is another point of thestopping and the noticing,
because you can flip that scripton.
What does it mean?
(20:02):
Well, it means I triedsomething new.
It means I am engaging with myliteral soul in the risk and in
the vulnerability.
You're stretching avulnerability muscle, you're
stretching a risk muscle here.
Any act of doing that is youdirectly getting in touch with
(20:22):
the sole part of you that ismade to make.
So see how we can flip thatscript and then all of a sudden
it can lower that resistance ofyour brain that's stopping you
from moving forward.
Mak (20:36):
And if you look, I mean there is so much fun in the
chase of the ultimate prize, butthe secret is the ultimate
prize is the chase itself.
Okay, that's another littlewisdom drop for you.
But my point here is that ifyou were just instantly good at
(20:57):
everything and you knew youcould start today and create the
greatest creative expressionthat ever existed, over and over
again, like if you, if you wantto cook, and you knew you could
cook like bobby flay every timeyou cooked, that wouldn't be
fun it goes back to me doingchalkboard, right it wouldn't be
fun anymore.
If you're, if you're a visualartist, you know you could
(21:19):
create the perfect painting.
Every single time you paintedit would no longer be fun.
If you, if you want to go playgolf and you would like be the
best golfer ever, every singletime you played it would no
longer be fun.
What is fun is actuallylearning.
It's creating the bad paintingand and internal.
Okay, what am I going to changethis time?
(21:41):
What am I going to change thistime?
It's like the same thing in theNFL.
If one team was perfect forever, let's say and I'll do a
Steelers plug here, becausewe're from the Pittsburgh area
originally If the Steelers wereso good that they won every year
, no one would even.
It wouldn't matter anymore.
They would start giving theprize to the number two team.
(22:01):
So what I'm saying is you haveto learn how to enjoy the
process of failing, of gettingcritiques, of losing, of not
worrying about perfectionism.
The actual process of doing iswhat should be fun.
Valerie (22:21):
Because here's the thing, it's actually who you
become in the process.
That's the thing we don'tactually want.
The thing, like you said, ifyou knew you could never miss I
say this all the time to peoplethat I mentor.
If I'm like, if I could wave amagic wand and just make it all,
(22:42):
make the struggle go away, makethe journey go away, the climb
and all of that, and it's justgone, I would be doing you the
biggest disservice of your lifeand you would get there and be
like, oh oh, this is cool formaybe a week and then you would
turn around and say, what else?
(23:02):
What else can I do?
What can I be a beginner at?
Again?
Mak (23:06):
yes and and okay, look, just think about like here in
america, we love the, the ragsto riches story, and how often
do you hear it like you hearthere's people like the
winklevoss twins, and peoplelike that were like oh, they
were born rich in a successfulfamily and then they formed an
even more successful company andeveryone goes, oh, who cares?
(23:27):
Of course they were, they werehanded everything.
We don't respect that, but whatwe love is the story of the
person who was down and out, oran addict, or they were homeless
or whatever.
They turned their lives aroundand became a multimillionaire
and then they in turn, changedso many lives because their
story is so inspirational.
Now, if you had the choicebetween being successful in
(23:50):
either of those situations,which one would you choose?
More than likely, you wouldactually choose the Rags to
Riches story, because how muchmore exciting, how much more
would you learn?
Much more would you learn whowould you be?
What kind of respect would youhave for yourself?
What kind of respect wouldpeople have for you?
So that's that's.
But what makes the story greatis the story itself, not the
(24:11):
outcome.
There are hundreds of thousandsof wealthy, successful,
creative people out there, butwhat we love is hearing that
story and how they got there andthe participation in the
struggle is what makes it great.
Valerie (24:25):
Well and just again, who do you have to become to be
that person?
It's so much of the internalchange and when you are going
after a life that is filled withcreativity, that is a constant
act of setting down the fear ofthe unknown, setting down the
(24:47):
fear of the criticism.
We are setting down the needfor the right or the wrong.
We talked about how school hasconditioned us that there's a
right answer and a wrong answerIn creativity.
That's not the case.
Has conditioned us that there'sa right answer and a wrong
answer In creativity.
That's not the case.
Literally every point ofcreativity, what it requires of
us, the spontaneity, the lettinggo, the risk taking, the
(25:13):
vulnerability, all of thosethings is the requirement.
So if all we do is focus on thegood outcome but then we're not
focused on who we're becoming,then it's the well, what's next
question is inevitably going tocome up, because your soul is
going to call for that to comeup.
But if you were only going forthat outcome and not learning
those lessons, which are justthe very bedrock of creativity,
then you're not going to be anybetter for it.
(25:34):
You're not going to actuallyhave gained anything and, in the
long run, of what is actuallygoing to be soul fulfilling
happiness.
But when you can notice what'shappening with your brain,
notice and say this is mybiological wiring, this has
nothing to do with mycapabilities.
It is literally going to tellyou who do you think you are.
(25:59):
Sit back down.
The song that it's going toplay is the song of you are not
good enough and who do you thinkyou are?
Imposter syndrome and you arenot enough.
Like I can pretty much guaranteethat's the song it's going to
play and it's going to bedifferent, a little bit
different for everybody, becauseyour brain knows you and it's
(26:19):
going to be able to give youreally, really convincing
arguments of why you should sitback down, because who do you
think you are and you're notgood enough, but you recognize
that is your biological wiring,that is your brain saying that.
That is your biological wiring,that is your brain saying that.
(26:42):
Therefore, you can learn toexercise back to the gym thing
about the discomfort but you canlearn to exercise the muscle of
creativity instead, which isspontaneity, risk-taking.
Messy, it is so, so messy, butyou're exercising that like a
muscle.
So then it becomes who youbecome.
So then the outcome might comefor what you're working on.
(27:05):
It might not come for whatyou're working on you might
actually find something betterthat's what I was gonna say.
But you now have the muscle inplace, you now have the rewired
neural pathways in place.
That's like, oh, okay, I nowhave the ability to pivot and
try this and be okay with it.
Mak (27:25):
Well, think about all the incredible inventions.
Now I wish I had a computer infront of me.
I could look them up real quick.
But all the really coolinventions that came from people
trying to do something else yes, it's a massive list And'm I'm
gonna I'm gonna be wrong, but Iknow play-doh was one and that's
like a billion dollar likecompany now out of a mistake,
(27:48):
versus even someone trying tocorrect.
But imagine if the people likethe I think coca-cola was that
way.
I mean, there's a bunch ofthings that we now love that
came, that came.
Somebody was trying to dosomething else and, in the
process of being messy, discovergasoline.
Gasoline was one.
So in the process of trying nowI'm trying to do something else
(28:10):
, I'm trying to do somethingelse In the messy part they
actually discovered somethingmore amazing than what they were
trying to create to begin with.
And so imagine if you don'tstart because you're afraid of
the mess and you're just lookingfor that perfect outcome.
Think of those people If theyhad had that mindset of well, I
(28:30):
don't know what this is, but I'mtrying to get a perfect outcome
, and we might have never hadCoca-Cola, we might have never
had Play-Doh, and look it up.
There's tons of these kinds ofthings out there, and space
program has tons of them, likewhen they were trying to get
somebody to the moon.
I mean so much of innovation.
What we have today came frommistakes and then testing
materials and stuff for thespace shuttle and all of that.
(28:51):
So imagine, like, if you are sofocused on that outcome and the
perfectionism and all of that,what you could miss.
Like I can, val.
I can only imagine in your caseyou have invented new strokes
and things like that with thelike in your methodology for
(29:13):
painting through mistakes andthrown away, like I'm sure that
you you figured out how youwanted to paint through the
mistakes that you made.
Valerie (29:22):
Yeah, I always say that every painting, every, every
misstep, it's just compost.
Even when it goes in the trash,that trash is actually compost
and we need the compost in orderto grow.
Mak (29:37):
That's a great analogy To the next one.
Valerie (29:38):
It all fuels that next level of becoming, and there's
definitely color choices andthings that have come out of
just pure experimentation.
But I think, where this comesinto play and what you were
saying about, imagine in theperfectionism, if you become so
close minded, you're like solasered focused that you miss
(30:01):
kind of what's around.
I think that is truly the cruxof it.
I think it's.
Elizabeth Gilbert says that themarker of a creative life is
only one that leans more towardcuriosity than fear.
That's the marker, and thisgoes back to what I said about
well, what does it mean?
(30:21):
And we can make it meanwhatever we want it to mean.
So you made that failed.
We're just using painting as anexample.
But you make a failed painting.
What does it mean?
I'm a failure, I'm bad, I'm nogood, whatever.
Or what does it mean?
And you can say, well, we'lllook at this color and, oh, this
is compost and I really don'tlike this, but this was a really
(30:45):
cool thing.
So it's like, what are thosewhat if?
Questions, or what are thosecuriosities to lean into?
Mak (30:51):
When we think of Ina Garten Barefoot Contessa, we think of
like perfection, Like she's justlike amazing she.
Everyone wants her to be their,their mom or grandma.
You want to hang out with her.
You want to get invited to herhouse.
You and I had a chance to gosee her on her book tour
Incredible, it was one like.
Valerie (31:09):
I sat there and cried.
It was incredible.
Tears rolling down my face.
Mak (31:16):
And we love this lady.
We've've been following her, Ithink for 15 or 20 years.
I mean, who hasn't, who doesn'tlove ina garden?
But, um, what she was so realin that interview and her memoir
it was promoting her memoir andher memoir was amazing, totally
fantastic.
Buy it if you haven't yet andread it, add it to your reading
list.
But, um, she talked about whatI loved is.
She talked about this bostoncream pie.
She had.
(31:37):
Someone asked her.
She said some.
Somewhere along the linesomeone said, hey, can you make
a boston cream pie?
How many times did she try it?
How many times did she try tomake it?
Valerie (31:47):
oh, I I don't want.
It was in the 70s or 80s, Ithought it was more like 100
okay, it was a crazy number.
You get the point they went inthe trash like she just cakes in
the trash.
Mak (31:56):
And it was years, it was multiple years and she would
tweak one little thing and makea boston cream pie and it went
in the garbage and she'd startover and she worked on
perfecting the boston becauseshe said she didn't really like
boston cream pie if we'rebotching the story, this is
still the same idea.
Valerie (32:14):
You get the numbers, but you'll.
You'll get the idea.
Okay, I know we're botching thestory, this is still the same
idea.
Mak (32:17):
You get the numbers, you'll get the idea.
Okay, I know we're sorrybecause I know you're probably
the first one to download ourpodcast.
Listen, but the point here isIna was not working toward
creating the world's best Bostoncream pie Guess what she loves
trying to create the world'sbest Boston cream pie.
(32:37):
she was so lit up telling thestory about it was like a
scientist it was, it was, it waskiller, and that's and that's
where you want to live.
You want to live in that energyand we don't start.
You don't start because of allof these reasons.
You're working for the outcome.
You're worried aboutperfectionism, you're afraid of
(32:58):
what you're going to feel aboutyourself, self-criticism, you're
worried about what other peopleare going to think.
You procrastinate, you put itoff.
But if you learn to be like Inaand love the process and instead
of being scared or nervous likethe Olympic athletes and you're
excited, you can try.
And if you don't, if you quoteunquote, don't have time.
(33:20):
I guarantee you spent 10minutes on your phone today that
you didn't need to and that'sall you need.
Have your supplies sittingthere.
Whatever you want to do,whether you're writing a song or
you're trying to work on arecipe or whatever you take that
(33:52):
10 minutes and do a little bit.
You can do a little somethingto get started and remind
yourself that it's the processof getting there.
That's exciting.
It's like bringing you food andyou're like, ah, you're almost
like upset when the plane lands.
That's what this is like.
You want to.
You want to indulge in theplane ride, not the destination,
but when you get to thedestination.
It's pretty amazing too.
Valerie (34:12):
But then when you're there, you're like where do you
want to go next?
What are we going to do next?
It's like, no, you're not goingto stay there.
That's the cool thing.
It's like we think we're goingto get there and then all of a
sudden it's like, yep, here I am, Nope, we.
The nature of your creativityis the more you use, the more
you have, the more you exercisethat muscle, the more you want
to exercise that muscle, themore you look for opportunities
(34:35):
when you're operating in thatcuriosity, and again, I want to
do the episode that has to benext the being versus the doing.
Okay, write that down when youare operating from that being
place.
You are just a person who iscurious.
You are just a person who iscreative not doing, quote,
(34:56):
unquote creativity.
You will see all of theseopportunities, these things to
try, these just avenues that youwant to explore that muscle,
regardless of how you work, itis one of the best investments
you can make in yourself handsdown.
The one of the best investmentsyou can make in yourself hands
(35:21):
down.
Exercise that muscle of howgood can I get with the risk and
the unknown, how good can I letthis feel for myself?
And so this is, I would say,our like next biohack.
Mak (35:30):
I don't know how we don't have them listed.
We're literally making it up onus.
It us not like.
Valerie (35:37):
We're like all organized here and have some
list like this was our pointsbiohacks, you know, like we're
geniuses.
No, we're just kind of inventingthis as we go because we said
notice first, just notice whenyou're doing that.
And okay, here's the tweak,here's the story, like switch,
how can I make this the most funfor me?
(35:57):
I love that question.
That question is the question,in my opinion, for creativity,
for business, for anything inyour life what, what do you hate
to do?
Do you hate to do the dishes?
What is it like?
What are those points for youthat are like so annoying?
(36:19):
How can I make this fun for me?
And that is going back to whatyou were saying, mac, about the
flight, where we love thatdestination.
You love it because you madethat destination just so
enjoyable and so pleasurable andso delightful.
Mak (36:37):
You made getting there.
Valerie (36:39):
Yeah, you made getting there, that's what.
I mean so delightful andpleasurable.
How do you do that for yourcreativity?
How do you do that for yourtime where you're, like I'm
becoming, I am in the process.
So I think the first one wasnoticing.
I think the second is actuallythat story reframe.
What are you making it mean?
Are you, if you're tellingyourself, hey, I don't know how
(37:01):
it's gonna turn out, like, let'shold this very lightly, it's
not that serious.
Everybody, we can have a levity.
We could have a lightness andsay what does this mean?
It doesn't mean that you failed.
It doesn't mean that you're youfailed.
It doesn't mean that you're notgood.
It means that you're addingcompost to the pile.
Oh, look, good, another pieceof compost to the pile.
This is fertilizing who I ambecoming.
(37:22):
So that's the first, that's thesecond one and then this one.
The final reframe is how can Imake this fun for me?
What can you do that would justdelight that whole experience?
What would light you up?
Ask yourself that question, andthat is why I hate the people
(37:47):
saying you got to be moredisciplined, hunker down, get up
earlier, do this like thatenergy?
I just don't like it, because Ithink the energy should
actually be.
How do I make this fun for me?
How do I make this a soft placeto land?
Mak (38:04):
well that should it should be that with everything in your
life and I, I, I want to looparound something you said,
probably 10 or 15 minutes agotoo, about how your brain will
get in your way.
So this might be not.
I don't know if this is biohackfour or bonus biohack, but your
brain only knows you now andyour history, your past, and so
(38:25):
when it start, when you start to, like, make these changes, step
into discomfort, more thanlikely your brain is going to
use your past and it's going tostart throwing things at you and
they're going to come up, stuffthat you haven't thought about
in years.
It could be stuff from when youwere a kid.
This still happens to me today.
(38:46):
Anytime, I'm starting to feelcreative.
My brain goes well.
When you did this when you werenine, everyone thought you were
an idiot and I'm like where didthat come from?
I haven't thought about that.
But but the the now, thebiohack here is noticing that
when it happens and being kindto yourself gently, gently, look
(39:07):
at that thought and go, thankyou and release it and remind
yourself as to what's going on.
It's the awareness of that thatmakes all the difference in the
world in helping you just startbeing uncomfortable, being
comfortable with beinguncomfortable.
Valerie (39:25):
You can actually use that coming up as a sign of your
growth, because somebody thatis not creating and just sitting
around watching Netflixflix allday eating cheetos, that's
called numbing exactly, butthere's no um, yeah, you numb
away that, that fear, thoseself-doubts.
(39:48):
But when you have that, come upthose doubts or those things
from your past and I hear thatfrom the people I teach a lot,
who will tell me like they were.
Just, they remembered somethingthat an old teacher said to
them that really, really hurtthem and these things start to
come up.
And it's just a sign of yourgrowth.
(40:08):
It's actually something not tobe.
Don't let it send you back intonumbing and into sitting back
down.
It's trying again to sit youback down because it knows that,
it knows the feeling and itknows that you're going to stay
alive sitting there watchingNetflix.
But you can, you know betterthan this, because now you have
(40:29):
this bit of an override and youcan say, okay, like Max said,
just with the gentleness of it,I see you, you're just trying to
love me by getting me to sitback down, but I don't need that
information right now, and thenactually look at it like ooh,
I'm growing, like this is good.
Mak (40:47):
Like pat yourself on the back when it happens, and a lot
of times what helped me even isI kind of smirk and I laugh and
I say to myself thanks, thanksfor bringing up that that time
from my past so we can let it gonow, because I don't need that
anymore.
I literally say that and it'samazing and sometimes I do like
(41:07):
a little visualization, like 10second visualization, of it
being like in a balloon and justletting it go away.
And it's balloon and justletting it go away.
And it's amazing how that hasfreed me from so many of these
little thoughts and I'm tellingmy brain thanks, but no thanks.
Let's replace that with theidea of you know what we're safe
(41:31):
creating.
We're safe making and puttingthings into the world, because
that brings us more abundance,that brings us more money, that
does all these things that helpcreate a place where we feel,
where we can feel comfortable inthe future, and then at that
point we can feel moreuncomfortable.
Valerie (41:49):
It's a really great cycle yeah, and just knowing
that it is doing so much foryourself, from even a level of
healing, of getting back to yoursoul and what you are made to
do and how we as humans areliterally wired.
It's getting us back to the youof you, the who we are, the
(42:11):
what we are made to be, the youof you, the who we are, the what
we are made to be.
So, just reminding yourselfthat, yes, we do have this one,
this set of biological wiring,but actually down to our very
essence and our own divinity andour own just aliveness and our
soul.
This is actually where we wantto live.
Mak (42:33):
So do you want to recap?
Valerie (42:35):
Because we don't have them written down, you recap
them, we'll test your memory andthis, these are the takeaways
from today.
These are the takeaways, theseare you write them down?
Mak (42:43):
because we didn't.
Valerie (42:45):
These are the things that will make your creativity
feel less hard.
No more, we it's feeling hard.
We want it to not feel that wayanymore.
So number one is to notice.
Notice your biological wiring.
Don't beat yourself up for it,because guess what, we all have
(43:05):
it.
So notice when you areprocrastinating.
Notice the doubts and the fearsthat come up and you can be
like oh interesting, this iscoming up.
Number two is your story reframe.
What does it mean?
What you're telling yourself,that it means whether you had a
bad day creating something.
(43:26):
You're saying I'm lazy, or whatdoes it mean?
You get to make it mean what itmeans.
You get to be the one to decidewhat is actually happening here
, and that story will changeeverything.
It's the story.
Number three is the questionwhat would make this the most
(43:48):
fun for me?
How can I make this fun?
When you go back to your havingfun and your play and your
delight, you are tapping intowho you really are and we're
kind of told not to do that orthat.
It's easy.
Play and fun.
Oh, those are the things wehave to like, stop ourselves
(44:08):
from doing almost.
But that's not true.
I actually think in our culturetoday it's the opposite.
Actually think.
In our culture today it's theopposite.
We have to stop ourselves fromthe overworking and all of that
and actually prioritize the playand the fun I'm going to say
something that is, unfortunately, controversial life is supposed
to be fun.
Mak (44:28):
Life is supposed to be joyful.
That's what it's here forthat's what we're wired.
We're wired for that we're notsupposed to be here to work, to
have fun for a couple of hours.
It's supposed to be the otherway around.
Valerie (44:40):
Right so.
Mak (44:41):
And then, what was the bonus biohack?
What would make this?
Do you remember the bonusbiohack?
What would make this?
Valerie (44:45):
the most fun for me.
And then the bonus is wheneveryou do start to go down the path
of creating be ready, beprepared.
That's when the flood is goingto come in and their brain is
going to sound the alarms andsay wait a second, why aren't
they listening?
(45:06):
And then you might get hit withsome like big doozies trying to
get you to sit back down whileyou're in the midst of the doing
and know that that, again, isnormal.
These are the things peopledon't talk about, and yet we all
are human beings with thiswiring, so you can gently notice
that and say I see that and nowI can release that.
Mak (45:31):
If you really enjoyed this episode, do us a favor and I
know it's a little bit of a painbut go give us five stars,
write a quick review on Spotifyor Apple.
It really helps the algorithmspush us up and show the podcast
to more people and we justreally, really appreciate it
because we're super stoked to behere, super stoked to be
(45:53):
hanging out with you and doingthis, and I actually like that
idea we had earlier.
If you have something you wantus to talk about, send it in DM
us.
Val is at Valerie McKee onInstagram.
I'm at that Mac guy.
Mac is M-A-K.
Sorry, just DM us and let usknow.
Leave a review and if you thinkthis podcast will be helpful
for somebody, forward it to them.
(46:13):
You know, someone who'screative and creative doesn't
have to be an artist Entreprenehelpful for somebody, forward it
to them.
Valerie (46:21):
You know, someone who's creative and like creative
doesn't have to be an artistentrepreneurs are creative.
Mak (46:23):
All kinds of business people are for this.
Creativity is the lifeblood.
Everybody is creative in oneway or another and we want to
serve everybody, so, um so,thank you so much for for
listening today.
We really appreciate it.
Valerie (46:33):
See you next time.
Bye.
I kind of feel like doing these episodes and
starting is like improv comedywell, they have to be funny for
it to be comedy.
Well, we don't know what eachother is going to say.
We just turn on the mic andthen you just see what happens
and it's like, okay, are yougonna talk about your dog,
what's, what is it gonna be?
And then you just yes, andhappens and it's like, okay, are
you going to talk about yourdog, what is it going to be?
And then you just yes and itand go.
(00:28):
It's like improv.
Mak (00:29):
That's radio, baby.
That's what it's always beenabout.
That's why I love this medium,because it's obviously a podcast
.
But back in the day, when talkshows were huge, that's what it
was.
I mean, you had a loose outline, which we do.
We kind of have a stack ofstuff here we want to talk about
, but you turn that mic on,you're never sure what's going
to happen.
And that's what I like about uswe're not scripted here.
Valerie (00:50):
No, I think everybody can tell that we are not
scripted.
It's true, but it makes it funbecause we just let the
conversation go where it's goingto go and what comes up is
going to come up, and it is.
Mak (01:03):
It is kind of fun and thank you guys for the uh incredible
response.
I know on the last one, I saidthat our first first one had the
most downloads we'd ever hadlike of an initial podcast, the.
The follow-up was like reallyclose behind it and that first
one is still going.
The second one's still goingtoo, obviously.
I just checked the numbersmaybe an hour ago and we're
(01:24):
shocked and we've had a lot ofmessages at this point.
Valerie (01:28):
We're so happy to hear it.
Mak (01:29):
And when you're doing this, you know this isn't.
This isn't really a two-wayconversation.
We can't like we're not seeingfaces or getting so.
It's really nice to hear fromyou so real quick.
Thank you so much forcontinuing to support and listen
.
If you know anyone who thinkswould like it, please share it
with them.
Valerie (01:45):
Yeah, and we would always love to hear your biggest
takeaways too.
You can always DM us.
I'm at Valerie McKeon onInstagram.
Mac is at that, mac guy.
Mak (01:55):
Mac is M-A-K.
Valerie (01:57):
So yeah, let us know what you're liking, what you're
taking away.
Mak (02:01):
And if you hear thunder in the background, that is not a
mischievous sound effect.
We're actually in the midst ofall, like the tornadoes and
everything happening inTennessee right now, so
hopefully we won't beinterrupted by a tornado, but
you might hear some thunder andwe might jump if there's some
lightning, because we've gotsome big windows behind us Going
off, off and on all day, allright.
Valerie (02:23):
So today we in the last couple episodes we've been
feeling like we've sort of beengiving an overarching feeling of
what we want to talk about,what we are all about.
So we want to start kind ofdeep diving on a few things.
And there's so many things.
Mak (02:44):
More than a few things.
I think we have a list of atleast a hundred.
Valerie (02:47):
That's what this podcast is about, and it's so
interesting because we areloving it so much that we want
to talk about all of it at once,and it's like, well, what about
this?
And then there's this, and thenthere's this, and so that's a
good thing.
Mak (03:05):
And if there is something that you're interested in having
us cover, that's another goodreason to DM us too, or email us
, or however you want to get intouch with us, send us ideas, or
if you have questions that youwant us to answer, am I going to
send them in.
We'll try to tackle them, yeah.
Valerie (03:16):
So today we want to talk about something that I
think so many creatives canrelate to.
Why is it that something thatwe love, something that lights
us up, to create?
I think those who are listeningare probably creative and we
(03:36):
hear that like how fun thatsounds to create something or to
engage in creativity, but whydoes it actually feel like
pulling teeth to actually do it?
Mak (03:46):
It's such a good question because it's I mean, you could
unpack this in so many ways andthere's so many great real world
examples, even this podcast.
We love doing this and this isliterally easy, but it took us
three years to finally do it andhere we are.
(04:07):
Why?
Why was it like?
What happened that kept us fromfrom proceeding, and what is it
about the things we love to doand create that keep us from
moving forward?
well, to me it's almost likegoing to the gym where well no,
because I hate going to the gymI don't know that that's a good
example unless you're like a proathlete or something and that's
(04:27):
like how you thrive.
But that's not a really goodexample for me.
It'd be like it's like eatingpeanut butter cups.
Yes, fine, Then I'm down forthat.
I guess what?
Valerie (04:35):
I mean by that is you feel so good after you do it?
Mak (04:41):
Yeah.
Valerie (04:42):
It's like why don't I always do this?
Or even after you do it, yeah,it's like, why don't I always do
this?
Or even okay, going for a walk,doing something that you know
actually feels good and fillsyou up, why do we not do those
things?
Or why is it like pulling teethto go and take a walk, even
though you know you're going tofeel amazing after that?
But I guess that's not quitethe same here with creating, but
(05:07):
still, we are such interestingcreatures, aren't we?
as human beings, we are so wiredto create.
We firmly believe that we arewired to make things, and it can
be many different things.
It doesn't have to be intraditional forms of art.
But we are wired to make fromnothing, to bring forth life in
(05:33):
what we do, to turn nothingnessinto something of value and that
has meaning.
And we are wired for that downto our very core.
We are wired for that down toour very core.
Mak (05:51):
But yet it's so interesting because our same wiring also
stops us from doing the thing itdoes.
It keeps us from doing thething that we so badly want to
do, and it's like why and thetop piece of that there really
comes down to the way our brainsare configured, and this goes
back thousands and thousands andthousands of years.
Valerie (06:14):
So many people will say I just need to stop being lazy,
I am so lazy.
No, I'll tell you right now youare not lazy.
Or somebody will say I justI've got to be more disciplined,
I got to be harder on myself, Ihave to have more willpower,
(06:34):
and these are the things we kindof try to fix this issue with
with this struggle.
But it's none of those.
It's not that you're lazy, Idon't.
You don't need to be harder onyourself in order to get
yourself to do something thatyou know is ultimately good for
you.
You are not broken.
(06:56):
Like Mac said, the real reasonshere are actually hidden in our
biological wiring, and I feellike it's kind of trendy right
now to be like biohacking.
You hear that phrase, butessentially, when it comes to
creativity, we need to biohackevery single day to override
(07:16):
certain systems that are inplace that we all have, that is
wired into us, and if we didn'thave those systems, we would
drive off a cliff, we would gooutside and get hit by a car,
like we need these systems ofsafety in place, but when it
comes to creativity, it doesn'talways serve us.
(07:40):
It makes it feel so hard andwhat we want to do is help you
make it feel light, light, easyfun again.
Mak (08:00):
Well, what's crazy is is that the idea of of safety in
real life.
Okay, fight or flight, what ourbrain is doing, preventing us
from walking off a cliff orstepping in front of a car, all
the things that it does.
Okay, you see the fire, youknow you don't put your hand in
it, you know it's like, that'slike these are all the things
that it's built for, but it'salmost like it overstepped its
bounds in creativity, and andand what I mean by that is
(08:22):
creativity is a vulnerableexpression of who we are inside.
And that safety mechanism,instead of keeping us from being
attacked by a bear because weknow how to run from one, what
it has done is it has said don'tbe vulnerable, don't fill
(08:44):
yourself with this joy, becausethat's really scary.
You're going to be concernedabout how everybody's going to
react and what everybody's goingto think, so you're better off
being comfortable and justputting on another Netflix
episode, and that's where thatwiring kind of goes off your
(09:06):
brain.
Valerie (09:07):
The bottom line, here's what it comes down to it hates
the unknown.
That's that is what that's whatit is.
It just hates the unknown.
But when you are a humancreating something from literal
nothing, there is always goingto be that element of it being
(09:27):
unknown.
You can go in with the biggestplan, you can develop your
skills and things, which we do,but still that really never
fully goes away, because we arestill operating in the unknown.
Here's what's funny about it,though and this is very much my
own story with this, this wholeway of being.
(09:49):
We think that we want that togo away, like we think that we
want that that fear element togo away, that unknown element.
This is the thing that's likekind of stopping us from getting
the momentum and getting going.
But what's funny is when youcan biohack yourself to give
(10:10):
yourself the safety to keepshowing up and building that
muscle, the unknown becomesfamiliar, and often for a
creative, that means it's timeto nosedive back into the
unknown.
So what I'm trying to say is,for me, my career started very
(10:32):
humbly.
It was just a hobby of an Etsystore with chalkboards.
I was really into it.
It was so fun.
I had never done hand lettering.
I taught myself everything.
I was so excited.
It was like studying fonts andtrying to draw them and putting
together these compositions.
I loved it, I loved it, I lovedit.
But then as my career went on,as my artistry went on, I kind
(10:58):
of I reached a level of sort ofmastery.
With that I wrote the book onit, the complete book of chalk
lettering, and I started feelingthat like dead inside, feeling
Well, what started happening?
I was almost like a machine.
I was printing out pieces ofart but yet was not operating in
(11:20):
my creativity, really hardly atall.
I wasn't pushing myself.
They're really.
I removed that level of theunknown and I really was kind of
like I could do this with myeyes closed.
Mak (11:32):
Well, it became familiar.
Valerie (11:34):
Right.
But what's funny is I was likeitching, it was like this isn't
filling me.
I don't feel creatively filledup, I feel bored, I feel like
what's next?
Ooh, let me go over here, letme experience, like experience
with these markers andeverything.
But it's so funny becausepeople think artists must be
(11:54):
these like creatively lit up,you know people.
But that is not always the case.
And what's interesting is thosefeelings of it becomes old hat
and I'm just going through themotions and I'm becoming a
little bit more of that machine.
We think because our braintells us that once you get the
desired outcomes that you wantevery single time and it feels
(12:17):
like you can't miss, your brainis tricking you into believing
that's actually what you'regoing for and what you want.
But then, coming from someonewho was there, it's like that's
actually what you're going forand what you want.
But then, coming from someonewho was there, it's like that's
not what you want.
You're a creative soul and thesoul part of you is like come on
, man like let's go, let's finda risk.
Mak (12:37):
So it's what it's what I love to say the most, and that
is, if you're truly creative andyou want to dive into the
things that you love to do, youhave to learn to be comfortable
being uncomfortable.
Once you get in that spacewhere discomfort becomes the
thing that you sort of lookforward to.
Because, like, one of myfavorite analogies of all time
(12:59):
was, there was a reporter at theOlympics and they were
interviewing all these athletesthat were about to compete and
they were, and they kept askingthe question are you nervous?
And every athlete, everyathlete, said no, I'm excited.
I'm excited, and I heard SimonSinek cover this beautifully.
(13:21):
The energy of nervousness andfear comes from the exact same
place within our biology asexcitement, and it's literally
how you decide to interpret itin your brain makes such a big
difference.
How you decide to interpret itin your brain makes such a big
(13:41):
difference.
And what happens with theseathletes is they took a
situation that could very easilybe nerve wracking or scary, and
they were trained so wellbecause they're obviously the
top of their game.
How did they get there?
They learned to be comfortablebeing uncomfortable because,
okay, let's go back to your gymanalogy at the very beginning.
If you go to the gym and itstops feeling like a workout and
(14:02):
you're just kind of likerunning along, you're not making
progress.
You're making progress when youkeep stretching yourself and
adding a little bit more pain toeach Like.
If you're lifting, if you'rerunning, you have to run faster
or longer.
If you're lifting, you got tolift more and you got to
challenge different muscles.
It's the same thing.
Creatively, what these athleteshave done is they stopped
(14:25):
looking at that as fear and asnervousness and they learn to
look at it as this is exciting.
The idea of this discomfort isactually exciting to them.
And then look where it got them.
And the same thing is true increativity.
And the reason it can be so hardto start is because we're so
(14:50):
uncomfortable with the idea ofyou name it vulnerability, with
the idea of putting somethingout there and having it be
rejected, with the idea ofputting something out there and
having it be rejected, with theidea of um, what's, uh, what's
the other word I'm looking for?
With the idea of perfectionismand like getting it perfect that
we often set up.
All of these scenarios in ourmind that are I have to do, I
(15:13):
have to have the perfect paper,I have to have the perfect
atmosphere.
I have to do that.
I have to have the perfectpaper, I have to have the
perfect atmosphere, I have tohave the perfect drink, I have
to have the perfect timing.
I have to have.
And we and we, we artificiallycreate all these hazards to keep
us from actually doing thething, when all you literally
have to sit down, all you haveto literally do is sit down and
do the thing on your task listand you just like keep putting
(15:39):
it off and putting it off, andputting it off, and then you
eventually do it and it tookfive seconds or five minutes and
you sit and you go.
Why was I putting this off forlike two weeks?
It was so dumb and it's and andso internally you're going.
Man, I let that fester in mybrain for two weeks when all I
whoa.
That was a big one.
Valerie (15:54):
I must be making an excellent point right now this
episode to listen to is gonnafeel really ominous we should
release this one at halloween,so anyway, um, so so that's
what's going on here.
Mak (16:08):
Is we, we?
It can be so hard to start,because we've come up with all
of these reasons and we'retrying to our.
Our brains are really trying usto get us to a place where
we're comfortable, and that'snot going to happen so here's
the here's biohacking toolnumber one I and we're trying to
.
Valerie (16:22):
Our brains are really trying to get us to a place
where we're comfortable.
And that's not going to happen.
So here's biohacking toolnumber one, I guess, is just
notice that, and I really, ifyou start to notice this,
because what do we say?
Come on, you know, you've saidit, we all say it.
I don't have time, I didn'tcreate or I'm not putting forth
the effort to that because Idon't have time.
Mak (16:41):
And we say that.
Valerie (16:42):
That's the number one excuse.
Tough love, I mean.
Yes, you go through periodswhere that is the case, but if
you are saying that to yourselffor months and years, it is not
the time.
It is what we're talking aboutnine times out of ten.
Mak (16:57):
It is what we're talking about, I would argue, unless
you're like hold up in thehospital or something you
actually do have time, you'rejust not making time for it and
that is a block and becausecreativity, actually, which is
going to be a whole anotherepisode, is so much more about
your being than you're doing.
(17:18):
So there's that.
Valerie (17:19):
That's a whole other episode that we could go off on
right now, where we are humanbeings, we are not human doings.
Your creativity is not aboutthe doing and the output, it's
actually about your being soside note on that, we'll come
back to it.
Mak (17:33):
But, biohack.
Valerie (17:35):
One is notice when you sit down.
Oh my goodness, I do this allthe time.
Where I'm about to.
We're doing like a 30 daychallenge right now in the
membership and I haven't done my.
I haven't done my challengetoday and my brain comes up with
all of this oh well, you needto send that email.
Oh well, you should do this.
(17:56):
Then you need to do this.
And there comes a point whereyou need to send that email.
Oh well, you should do this.
Mak (18:06):
And then you need to do this, and there comes a point
where you need to notice what'shappening and it's like wait a
second, I just need to sit downand do the thing.
The four words, these fourwords that I'm about to give you
are the antithesis of yourcreativity and your growth.
Okay, and you don't even haveto write them down, you'll
remember them.
I'll do it tomorrow.
If you're living in that rhythm, I'll do it tomorrow.
(18:28):
I'll do it tomorrow.
Tomorrow never comes.
Valerie (18:32):
You just practice procrastination, you practice
pushing it down the line.
Mak (18:37):
Mañana mañana.
Valerie (18:38):
There's something I wanted to say, mac mac, about
when you said about the olympicathletes and how they switch
that story from I'm nervous toI'm excited which you can do by
how cool there are.
There's so many.
There's so many things I wantto say about this, because I
feel like the story changeseverything.
One, the story you tellyourself, is going to change it
(18:58):
all.
And it's kind of like whensomething happens or when you
try something and it doesn'tquite pan out, or what does it
mean?
You know, we are by the verynature of who we are.
Again, in our biology, we arestorytellers.
That comes with a flip side ofthe coin.
(19:20):
The storytelling aspect of usgives us our anxiety.
It tells us all of thishorrible stuff that's going to
happen.
Our storytelling other side ofthe coin, we are just really
good at these stories.
So when we're faced withsomething like, well, what does
it mean?
You get to make it meanwhatever you want it to mean A
(19:41):
failed piece, or what does thatmean?
You make it mean what you wantit to mean.
Does it mean that you are afailure and you're no good and
you are choosing that?
You get to make it mean that.
So this is another point of thestopping and the noticing,
because you can flip that scripton.
What does it mean that?
So this is another point of thestopping and the noticing,
because you can flip that scripton.
What does it mean?
(20:02):
Well, it means I triedsomething new.
It means I am engaging with myliteral soul in the risk and in
the vulnerability.
You're stretching avulnerability muscle, you're
stretching a risk muscle here.
Any act of doing that is youdirectly getting in touch with
(20:22):
the sole part of you that ismade to make.
So see how we can flip thatscript and then all of a sudden
it can lower that resistance ofyour brain that's stopping you
from moving forward.
Mak (20:36):
And if you look, I mean there is so much fun in the
chase of the ultimate prize, butthe secret is the ultimate
prize is the chase itself.
Okay, that's another littlewisdom drop for you.
But my point here is that ifyou were just instantly good at
(20:57):
everything and you knew youcould start today and create the
greatest creative expressionthat ever existed, over and over
again, like if you, if you wantto cook, and you knew you could
cook like bobby flay every timeyou cooked, that wouldn't be
fun it goes back to me doingchalkboard, right it wouldn't be
fun anymore.
If you're, if you're a visualartist, you know you could
(21:19):
create the perfect painting.
Every single time you paintedit would no longer be fun.
If you, if you want to go playgolf and you would like be the
best golfer ever, every singletime you played it would no
longer be fun.
What is fun is actuallylearning.
It's creating the bad paintingand and internal.
Okay, what am I going to changethis time?
(21:41):
What am I going to change thistime?
It's like the same thing in theNFL.
If one team was perfect forever, let's say and I'll do a
Steelers plug here, becausewe're from the Pittsburgh area
originally If the Steelers wereso good that they won every year
, no one would even.
It wouldn't matter anymore.
They would start giving theprize to the number two team.
(22:01):
So what I'm saying is you haveto learn how to enjoy the
process of failing, of gettingcritiques, of losing, of not
worrying about perfectionism.
The actual process of doing iswhat should be fun.
Valerie (22:21):
Because here's the thing, it's actually who you
become in the process.
That's the thing we don'tactually want.
The thing, like you said, ifyou knew you could never miss I
say this all the time to peoplethat I mentor.
If I'm like, if I could wave amagic wand and just make it all,
(22:42):
make the struggle go away, makethe journey go away, the climb
and all of that, and it's justgone, I would be doing you the
biggest disservice of your lifeand you would get there and be
like, oh oh, this is cool formaybe a week and then you would
turn around and say, what else?
(23:02):
What else can I do?
What can I be a beginner at?
Again?
Mak (23:06):
yes and and okay, look, just think about like here in
america, we love the, the ragsto riches story, and how often
do you hear it like you hearthere's people like the
winklevoss twins, and peoplelike that were like oh, they
were born rich in a successfulfamily and then they formed an
even more successful company andeveryone goes, oh, who cares?
(23:27):
Of course they were, they werehanded everything.
We don't respect that, but whatwe love is the story of the
person who was down and out, oran addict, or they were homeless
or whatever.
They turned their lives aroundand became a multimillionaire
and then they in turn, changedso many lives because their
story is so inspirational.
Now, if you had the choicebetween being successful in
(23:50):
either of those situations,which one would you choose?
More than likely, you wouldactually choose the Rags to
Riches story, because how muchmore exciting, how much more
would you learn?
Much more would you learn whowould you be?
What kind of respect would youhave for yourself?
What kind of respect wouldpeople have for you?
So that's that's.
But what makes the story greatis the story itself, not the
(24:11):
outcome.
There are hundreds of thousandsof wealthy, successful,
creative people out there, butwhat we love is hearing that
story and how they got there andthe participation in the
struggle is what makes it great.
Valerie (24:25):
Well and just again, who do you have to become to be
that person?
It's so much of the internalchange and when you are going
after a life that is filled withcreativity, that is a constant
act of setting down the fear ofthe unknown, setting down the
(24:47):
fear of the criticism.
We are setting down the needfor the right or the wrong.
We talked about how school hasconditioned us that there's a
right answer and a wrong answerIn creativity.
That's not the case.
Has conditioned us that there'sa right answer and a wrong
answer In creativity.
That's not the case.
Literally every point ofcreativity, what it requires of
us, the spontaneity, the lettinggo, the risk taking, the
(25:13):
vulnerability, all of thosethings is the requirement.
So if all we do is focus on thegood outcome but then we're not
focused on who we're becoming,then it's the well, what's next
question is inevitably going tocome up, because your soul is
going to call for that to comeup.
But if you were only going forthat outcome and not learning
those lessons, which are justthe very bedrock of creativity,
then you're not going to be anybetter for it.
(25:34):
You're not going to actuallyhave gained anything and, in the
long run, of what is actuallygoing to be soul fulfilling
happiness.
But when you can notice what'shappening with your brain,
notice and say this is mybiological wiring, this has
nothing to do with mycapabilities.
It is literally going to tellyou who do you think you are.
(25:59):
Sit back down.
The song that it's going toplay is the song of you are not
good enough and who do you thinkyou are?
Imposter syndrome and you arenot enough.
Like I can pretty much guaranteethat's the song it's going to
play and it's going to bedifferent, a little bit
different for everybody, becauseyour brain knows you and it's
(26:19):
going to be able to give youreally, really convincing
arguments of why you should sitback down, because who do you
think you are and you're notgood enough, but you recognize
that is your biological wiring,that is your brain saying that.
That is your biological wiring,that is your brain saying that.
(26:42):
Therefore, you can learn toexercise back to the gym thing
about the discomfort but you canlearn to exercise the muscle of
creativity instead, which isspontaneity, risk-taking.
Messy, it is so, so messy, butyou're exercising that like a
muscle.
So then it becomes who youbecome.
So then the outcome might comefor what you're working on.
(27:05):
It might not come for whatyou're working on you might
actually find something betterthat's what I was gonna say.
But you now have the muscle inplace, you now have the rewired
neural pathways in place.
That's like, oh, okay, I nowhave the ability to pivot and
try this and be okay with it.
Mak (27:25):
Well, think about all the incredible inventions.
Now I wish I had a computer infront of me.
I could look them up real quick.
But all the really coolinventions that came from people
trying to do something else yes, it's a massive list And'm I'm
gonna I'm gonna be wrong, but Iknow play-doh was one and that's
like a billion dollar likecompany now out of a mistake,
(27:48):
versus even someone trying tocorrect.
But imagine if the people likethe I think coca-cola was that
way.
I mean, there's a bunch ofthings that we now love that
came, that came.
Somebody was trying to dosomething else and, in the
process of being messy, discovergasoline.
Gasoline was one.
So in the process of trying nowI'm trying to do something else
(28:10):
, I'm trying to do somethingelse In the messy part they
actually discovered somethingmore amazing than what they were
trying to create to begin with.
And so imagine if you don'tstart because you're afraid of
the mess and you're just lookingfor that perfect outcome.
Think of those people If theyhad had that mindset of well, I
(28:30):
don't know what this is, but I'mtrying to get a perfect outcome
, and we might have never hadCoca-Cola, we might have never
had Play-Doh, and look it up.
There's tons of these kinds ofthings out there, and space
program has tons of them, likewhen they were trying to get
somebody to the moon.
I mean so much of innovation.
What we have today came frommistakes and then testing
materials and stuff for thespace shuttle and all of that.
(28:51):
So imagine, like, if you are sofocused on that outcome and the
perfectionism and all of that,what you could miss.
Like I can, val.
I can only imagine in your caseyou have invented new strokes
and things like that with thelike in your methodology for
(29:13):
painting through mistakes andthrown away, like I'm sure that
you you figured out how youwanted to paint through the
mistakes that you made.
Valerie (29:22):
Yeah, I always say that every painting, every, every
misstep, it's just compost.
Even when it goes in the trash,that trash is actually compost
and we need the compost in orderto grow.
Mak (29:37):
That's a great analogy To the next one.
Valerie (29:38):
It all fuels that next level of becoming, and there's
definitely color choices andthings that have come out of
just pure experimentation.
But I think, where this comesinto play and what you were
saying about, imagine in theperfectionism, if you become so
close minded, you're like solasered focused that you miss
(30:01):
kind of what's around.
I think that is truly the cruxof it.
I think it's.
Elizabeth Gilbert says that themarker of a creative life is
only one that leans more towardcuriosity than fear.
That's the marker, and thisgoes back to what I said about
well, what does it mean?
(30:21):
And we can make it meanwhatever we want it to mean.
So you made that failed.
We're just using painting as anexample.
But you make a failed painting.
What does it mean?
I'm a failure, I'm bad, I'm nogood, whatever.
Or what does it mean?
And you can say, well, we'lllook at this color and, oh, this
is compost and I really don'tlike this, but this was a really
(30:45):
cool thing.
So it's like, what are thosewhat if?
Questions, or what are thosecuriosities to lean into?
Mak (30:51):
When we think of Ina Garten Barefoot Contessa, we think of
like perfection, Like she's justlike amazing she.
Everyone wants her to be their,their mom or grandma.
You want to hang out with her.
You want to get invited to herhouse.
You and I had a chance to gosee her on her book tour
Incredible, it was one like.
Valerie (31:09):
I sat there and cried.
It was incredible.
Tears rolling down my face.
Mak (31:16):
And we love this lady.
We've've been following her, Ithink for 15 or 20 years.
I mean, who hasn't, who doesn'tlove ina garden?
But, um, what she was so realin that interview and her memoir
it was promoting her memoir andher memoir was amazing, totally
fantastic.
Buy it if you haven't yet andread it, add it to your reading
list.
But, um, she talked about whatI loved is.
She talked about this bostoncream pie.
She had.
(31:37):
Someone asked her.
She said some.
Somewhere along the linesomeone said, hey, can you make
a boston cream pie?
How many times did she try it?
How many times did she try tomake it?
Valerie (31:47):
oh, I I don't want.
It was in the 70s or 80s, Ithought it was more like 100
okay, it was a crazy number.
You get the point they went inthe trash like she just cakes in
the trash.
Mak (31:56):
And it was years, it was multiple years and she would
tweak one little thing and makea boston cream pie and it went
in the garbage and she'd startover and she worked on
perfecting the boston becauseshe said she didn't really like
boston cream pie if we'rebotching the story, this is
still the same idea.
Valerie (32:14):
You get the numbers, but you'll.
You'll get the idea.
Okay, I know we're botching thestory, this is still the same
idea.
Mak (32:17):
You get the numbers, you'll get the idea.
Okay, I know we're sorrybecause I know you're probably
the first one to download ourpodcast.
Listen, but the point here isIna was not working toward
creating the world's best Bostoncream pie Guess what she loves
trying to create the world'sbest Boston cream pie.
(32:37):
she was so lit up telling thestory about it was like a
scientist it was, it was, it waskiller, and that's and that's
where you want to live.
You want to live in that energyand we don't start.
You don't start because of allof these reasons.
You're working for the outcome.
You're worried aboutperfectionism, you're afraid of
(32:58):
what you're going to feel aboutyourself, self-criticism, you're
worried about what other peopleare going to think.
You procrastinate, you put itoff.
But if you learn to be like Inaand love the process and instead
of being scared or nervous likethe Olympic athletes and you're
excited, you can try.
And if you don't, if you quoteunquote, don't have time.
(33:20):
I guarantee you spent 10minutes on your phone today that
you didn't need to and that'sall you need.
Have your supplies sittingthere.
Whatever you want to do,whether you're writing a song or
you're trying to work on arecipe or whatever you take that
(33:52):
10 minutes and do a little bit.
You can do a little somethingto get started and remind
yourself that it's the processof getting there.
That's exciting.
It's like bringing you food andyou're like, ah, you're almost
like upset when the plane lands.
That's what this is like.
You want to.
You want to indulge in theplane ride, not the destination,
but when you get to thedestination.
It's pretty amazing too.
Valerie (34:12):
But then when you're there, you're like where do you
want to go next?
What are we going to do next?
It's like, no, you're not goingto stay there.
That's the cool thing.
It's like we think we're goingto get there and then all of a
sudden it's like, yep, here I am, Nope, we.
The nature of your creativityis the more you use, the more
you have, the more you exercisethat muscle, the more you want
to exercise that muscle, themore you look for opportunities
(34:35):
when you're operating in thatcuriosity, and again, I want to
do the episode that has to benext the being versus the doing.
Okay, write that down when youare operating from that being
place.
You are just a person who iscurious.
You are just a person who iscreative not doing, quote,
(34:56):
unquote creativity.
You will see all of theseopportunities, these things to
try, these just avenues that youwant to explore that muscle,
regardless of how you work, itis one of the best investments
you can make in yourself handsdown.
The one of the best investmentsyou can make in yourself hands
(35:21):
down.
Exercise that muscle of howgood can I get with the risk and
the unknown, how good can I letthis feel for myself?
And so this is, I would say,our like next biohack.
Mak (35:30):
I don't know how we don't have them listed.
We're literally making it up onus.
It us not like.
Valerie (35:37):
We're like all organized here and have some
list like this was our pointsbiohacks, you know, like we're
geniuses.
No, we're just kind of inventingthis as we go because we said
notice first, just notice whenyou're doing that.
And okay, here's the tweak,here's the story, like switch,
how can I make this the most funfor me?
(35:57):
I love that question.
That question is the question,in my opinion, for creativity,
for business, for anything inyour life what, what do you hate
to do?
Do you hate to do the dishes?
What is it like?
What are those points for youthat are like so annoying?
(36:19):
How can I make this fun for me?
And that is going back to whatyou were saying, mac, about the
flight, where we love thatdestination.
You love it because you madethat destination just so
enjoyable and so pleasurable andso delightful.
Mak (36:37):
You made getting there.
Valerie (36:39):
Yeah, you made getting there, that's what.
I mean so delightful andpleasurable.
How do you do that for yourcreativity?
How do you do that for yourtime where you're, like I'm
becoming, I am in the process.
So I think the first one wasnoticing.
I think the second is actuallythat story reframe.
What are you making it mean?
Are you, if you're tellingyourself, hey, I don't know how
(37:01):
it's gonna turn out, like, let'shold this very lightly, it's
not that serious.
Everybody, we can have a levity.
We could have a lightness andsay what does this mean?
It doesn't mean that you failed.
It doesn't mean that you're youfailed.
It doesn't mean that you're notgood.
It means that you're addingcompost to the pile.
Oh, look, good, another pieceof compost to the pile.
This is fertilizing who I ambecoming.
(37:22):
So that's the first, that's thesecond one and then this one.
The final reframe is how can Imake this fun for me?
What can you do that would justdelight that whole experience?
What would light you up?
Ask yourself that question, andthat is why I hate the people
(37:47):
saying you got to be moredisciplined, hunker down, get up
earlier, do this like thatenergy?
I just don't like it, because Ithink the energy should
actually be.
How do I make this fun for me?
How do I make this a soft placeto land?
Mak (38:04):
well that should it should be that with everything in your
life and I, I, I want to looparound something you said,
probably 10 or 15 minutes agotoo, about how your brain will
get in your way.
So this might be not.
I don't know if this is biohackfour or bonus biohack, but your
brain only knows you now andyour history, your past, and so
(38:25):
when it start, when you start to, like, make these changes, step
into discomfort, more thanlikely your brain is going to
use your past and it's going tostart throwing things at you and
they're going to come up, stuffthat you haven't thought about
in years.
It could be stuff from when youwere a kid.
This still happens to me today.
(38:46):
Anytime, I'm starting to feelcreative.
My brain goes well.
When you did this when you werenine, everyone thought you were
an idiot and I'm like where didthat come from?
I haven't thought about that.
But but the the now, thebiohack here is noticing that
when it happens and being kindto yourself gently, gently, look
(39:07):
at that thought and go, thankyou and release it and remind
yourself as to what's going on.
It's the awareness of that thatmakes all the difference in the
world in helping you just startbeing uncomfortable, being
comfortable with beinguncomfortable.
Valerie (39:25):
You can actually use that coming up as a sign of your
growth, because somebody thatis not creating and just sitting
around watching Netflixflix allday eating cheetos, that's
called numbing exactly, butthere's no um, yeah, you numb
away that, that fear, thoseself-doubts.
(39:48):
But when you have that, come upthose doubts or those things
from your past and I hear thatfrom the people I teach a lot,
who will tell me like they were.
Just, they remembered somethingthat an old teacher said to
them that really, really hurtthem and these things start to
come up.
And it's just a sign of yourgrowth.
(40:08):
It's actually something not tobe.
Don't let it send you back intonumbing and into sitting back
down.
It's trying again to sit youback down because it knows that,
it knows the feeling and itknows that you're going to stay
alive sitting there watchingNetflix.
But you can, you know betterthan this, because now you have
(40:29):
this bit of an override and youcan say, okay, like Max said,
just with the gentleness of it,I see you, you're just trying to
love me by getting me to sitback down, but I don't need that
information right now, and thenactually look at it like ooh,
I'm growing, like this is good.
Mak (40:47):
Like pat yourself on the back when it happens, and a lot
of times what helped me even isI kind of smirk and I laugh and
I say to myself thanks, thanksfor bringing up that that time
from my past so we can let it gonow, because I don't need that
anymore.
I literally say that and it'samazing and sometimes I do like
(41:07):
a little visualization, like 10second visualization, of it
being like in a balloon and justletting it go away.
And it's balloon and justletting it go away.
And it's amazing how that hasfreed me from so many of these
little thoughts and I'm tellingmy brain thanks, but no thanks.
Let's replace that with theidea of you know what we're safe
(41:31):
creating.
We're safe making and puttingthings into the world, because
that brings us more abundance,that brings us more money, that
does all these things that helpcreate a place where we feel,
where we can feel comfortable inthe future, and then at that
point we can feel moreuncomfortable.
Valerie (41:49):
It's a really great cycle yeah, and just knowing
that it is doing so much foryourself, from even a level of
healing, of getting back to yoursoul and what you are made to
do and how we as humans areliterally wired.
It's getting us back to the youof you, the who we are, the
(42:11):
what we are made to be, the youof you, the who we are, the what
we are made to be.
So, just reminding yourselfthat, yes, we do have this one,
this set of biological wiring,but actually down to our very
essence and our own divinity andour own just aliveness and our
soul.
This is actually where we wantto live.
Mak (42:33):
So do you want to recap?
Valerie (42:35):
Because we don't have them written down, you recap
them, we'll test your memory andthis, these are the takeaways
from today.
These are the takeaways, theseare you write them down?
Mak (42:43):
because we didn't.
Valerie (42:45):
These are the things that will make your creativity
feel less hard.
No more, we it's feeling hard.
We want it to not feel that wayanymore.
So number one is to notice.
Notice your biological wiring.
Don't beat yourself up for it,because guess what, we all have
(43:05):
it.
So notice when you areprocrastinating.
Notice the doubts and the fearsthat come up and you can be
like oh interesting, this iscoming up.
Number two is your story reframe.
What does it mean?
What you're telling yourself,that it means whether you had a
bad day creating something.
(43:26):
You're saying I'm lazy, or whatdoes it mean?
You get to make it mean what itmeans.
You get to be the one to decidewhat is actually happening here
, and that story will changeeverything.
It's the story.
Number three is the questionwhat would make this the most
(43:48):
fun for me?
How can I make this fun?
When you go back to your havingfun and your play and your
delight, you are tapping intowho you really are and we're
kind of told not to do that orthat.
It's easy.
Play and fun.
Oh, those are the things wehave to like, stop ourselves
(44:08):
from doing almost.
But that's not true.
I actually think in our culturetoday it's the opposite.
Actually think.
In our culture today it's theopposite.
We have to stop ourselves fromthe overworking and all of that
and actually prioritize the playand the fun I'm going to say
something that is, unfortunately, controversial life is supposed
to be fun.
Mak (44:28):
Life is supposed to be joyful.
That's what it's here forthat's what we're wired.
We're wired for that we're notsupposed to be here to work, to
have fun for a couple of hours.
It's supposed to be the otherway around.
Valerie (44:40):
Right so.
Mak (44:41):
And then, what was the bonus biohack?
What would make this?
Do you remember the bonusbiohack?
What would make this?
Valerie (44:45):
the most fun for me.
And then the bonus is wheneveryou do start to go down the path
of creating be ready, beprepared.
That's when the flood is goingto come in and their brain is
going to sound the alarms andsay wait a second, why aren't
they listening?
(45:06):
And then you might get hit withsome like big doozies trying to
get you to sit back down whileyou're in the midst of the doing
and know that that, again, isnormal.
These are the things peopledon't talk about, and yet we all
are human beings with thiswiring, so you can gently notice
that and say I see that and nowI can release that.
Mak (45:31):
If you really enjoyed this episode, do us a favor and I
know it's a little bit of a painbut go give us five stars,
write a quick review on Spotifyor Apple.
It really helps the algorithmspush us up and show the podcast
to more people and we justreally, really appreciate it
because we're super stoked to behere, super stoked to be
(45:53):
hanging out with you and doingthis, and I actually like that
idea we had earlier.
If you have something you wantus to talk about, send it in DM
us.
Val is at Valerie McKee onInstagram.
I'm at that Mac guy.
Mac is M-A-K.
Sorry, just DM us and let usknow.
Leave a review and if you thinkthis podcast will be helpful
for somebody, forward it to them.
(46:13):
You know, someone who'screative and creative doesn't
have to be an artist Entreprenehelpful for somebody, forward it
to them.
Valerie (46:21):
You know, someone who's creative and like creative
doesn't have to be an artistentrepreneurs are creative.
Mak (46:23):
All kinds of business people are for this.
Creativity is the lifeblood.
Everybody is creative in oneway or another and we want to
serve everybody, so, um so,thank you so much for for
listening today.
We really appreciate it.
Valerie (46:33):
See you next time.
Bye.
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