March 12, 2025 • 52 mins
What if the key to unleashing your creativity isn't found in hustling harder but in following the whispers of curiosity that most of us have been conditioned to ignore? Valerie and Mak McKeehan dive deep into how our education system and cultural messaging train us to become prisoners of outcome-based thinking, postponing joy until we achieve some distant goal.
From their earliest days in school, people learn to focus on test scores rather than the process of discovery. This mindset follows us into adulthood, where we become addicted—yes, literally addicted at a physiological level—to the stress hormones that keep us in a perpetual state of dissatisfaction. The most shocking revelation? Joy is actually one of the most vulnerable emotional states we can experience, which explains why our brains often sabotage moments of happiness with intrusive negative thoughts.
For those feeling stuck or uncertain about their creative direction, this episode offers liberating permission to experiment without judgment. Your creativity isn't just some frivolous hobby—it's the gateway to accessing your unique magic. As Valerie puts it: "You are made for what is whispering to you, because the only reason it's whispering to you is because it's in you."
Follow Valerie & Mak on Instagram: @valeriemckeehan and @thatmakguy
Thanks for listening to The UnBound Creative!
If today’s episode resonated with you, share it with a friend or leave us a review, it helps more creatives discover the show.
💌 Connect with us on Instagram:
@valeriemckeehan & @thatmakguy (that’s Mak with a K!)
Keep creating bravely. We’re so glad you’re here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Valerie (00:09):
Mac is here with his fancy headphones on, looking all
very legit for our podcasttoday.
Mak (00:15):
Why are you digging on my?
Valerie (00:16):
headphones.
No, it's great.
You asked me if I wanted a pairof headphones and I don't like
feel ready to for the whole getup yet.
Mak (00:23):
Well, it's so funny because I see like videos of people's
podcasts and no one wearsheadphones and as a guy who's
been in broadcasting for 30years, it blows my mind.
I can't imagine not hearingmyself in my ears when I'm doing
something like this.
Valerie (00:39):
Well, that's what's so funny.
I'm here with a professionalbroadcaster, like the headphones
, the whole get up and I don'tknow.
I'll get the hang of it.
Mak (00:49):
You'll be fine, we'll get you the headphones.
Valerie (00:52):
We're so excited to be back with you guys.
I'm Valerie McKeon.
This is my husband, mac McKeon.
This is the second episode ofour new podcast, the Unbound
Creative, which was formerly thePeaceful Creative, but we had
just so much more we needed toget out.
Mak (01:11):
And first of all let me say I mean you put out this reel
the other day promoting thepodcast.
We got a ton of great responsefrom that.
But just the number ofdownloads we had on the first
episodes like through the roof,like one of the biggest episodes
in the two year history so far.
So if you listened and you tunein and I got some text messages
(01:33):
, I, you know it's so.
Thank you so much for listeningand supporting because we're I,
you if you can't tell we'relike really stoked about this
podcast, it's, it's feeling likewe're a little unleashed.
Valerie (01:45):
Yes, which needed to happen.
And you know we're enjoying itbecause we're recording this
right now, after our girls havegone to bed, so we're normally
so exhausted, just like readyfor Frasier and lights out.
Mak (02:02):
Yeah.
Valerie (02:02):
But we're recording this like really excited.
That's how you know we're intoit.
Mak (02:08):
True, true, so so thank you so much for being here.
Valerie (02:12):
I think the unleashed feeling that we're feeling, like
that freedom sense and uneditedand just wanting to talk about
this stuff, I think is how somany creatives feel.
But we have all of this stuffthat gets heaped on us from the
(02:34):
very beginning, From school.
We have right or wrong and wehave this sense of you have to
kind of bottle it up like don'tbe too much.
Sense of you have to kind ofbottle it up like don't be too
much.
And I think there are so manycreatives who are resonating
with this idea of being unboundand being unleashed and just
(02:55):
being that, that fullest versionof themselves, without
apologizing.
Mak (03:00):
Well, I think it's true.
I mean and I know we're focusedon creatives here, but I think
it's almost everybody.
But here's a secret I thinkeverybody is creative in one way
or another, but somewhere alongthe line you were told you
weren't, so you, you tamped itdown.
Thus why this?
This unleashing in thissomewhat rebellious feeling is
as like coming to the surface,because we are told through all
(03:24):
of our lives Don't do.
It's basically like you're toldwhat not to do.
There are all theserestrictions you like put in
this prison of your life so thatyou can be.
You've become a responsibleadult a responsible adult, just
become the perfect individualwho doesn't make anybody mad and
(03:45):
keeps themselves quiet andfalls in line and follows the
rules and does all this stuff.
And if you look at the worldall the people who have achieved
all the great success theydon't do any of those things.
Valerie (04:00):
And they got messy.
That's the thing we're soafraid of.
Messy and they got messy.
That's the thing we're soafraid of.
Messy we're so afraid of alittle undone, possibly a little
unhinged, and so we avoid thatfor the safety and no risk.
But yet the lives that arelived out loud and lived
(04:21):
unleashed, they somehow are ableto be in the mess and actually
enjoy the mess.
Because it's in doing that,it's in unleashing themselves
and being that expression ofthemselves, even though the
journey is going to be messy,that feeling alone, of that
open-hearted, like you're doingthis creative work that you feel
(04:44):
so called to do.
I think that that drives youforward when you taste that.
But it's a really kind of scaryledge to stand on.
Mak (04:54):
Well, the world has taught us to be outcome focused, and I
think that is one of the biggestproblems, because this all
starts in school, when you're aslittle as first grade maybe.
When you're taught, it's aboutgetting all the answers right on
the quiz or on the test, and soyour whole life becomes outcome
focused, and so it's ingrainedin us to focus on the outcome
(05:21):
instead of enjoying the processof learning, enjoying the
process of getting there, and sothe difference between what is
accepted widely and where we'reheaded with this and our
philosophy is we're like nofocus on loving the building,
(05:42):
loving the mess, loving theprocess.
Don't even worry about theoutcome.
Steve Jobs and all these greatleaders and thinkers they
weren't obsessed with theoutcome.
They got obsessed with theprocess, and they loved the
process.
Valerie (05:58):
They loved going to work every day, they loved
creating every single day,because it was the process that
they were in love with, not theend result you know what I'm
even thinking in school, likedefinitely with tests and
everything, it always is outcomefocused and I do think it gives
us a real fear, especially forthose who are like model
(06:18):
students, like me.
Mak (06:20):
That's not you no, I was a solid d student.
Valerie (06:24):
I mean, I was like totally total, like straight a
student and, um, I do.
I have fought that in mycreative life because there are
those perfectionist tendenciesand there's that fear of you
know I, I can't get it wrong, orthat it's so black and white
(06:45):
you know there's a right answer,you know there's a wrong answer
, and so it feels debilitatingto make a decision.
But I've had to learn thatmaking any decision is actually
the right decision and I thinkthat is so true in creativity
and really even in life.
It's like that stuck place isso much worse than doing a thing
(07:12):
, even failing at a thing.
Mak (07:14):
Oh, definitely failing, Because you're moving forward.
Valerie (07:18):
It's all a flashlight, it's all crumbs on the path when
you're moving.
It's like being a jazz musicianyou can't play, even if you
make a wrong note.
What do they say?
There are no wrong notes injazz.
It's like, even if you play anoff note, well then you just
respond to that off note, butyou're moving, it's in motion.
Mak (07:37):
Well, that's why we we talk a lot about in some of the
programs that we do.
And then the coaching that I dois failing fast and iterating.
Because people get decisionfatigue because they sit and
they worry so much about makingthe right decision and I'm
saying look, make a hundredwrong decisions, because each
(07:58):
wrong decision is going to be alittle lesson that you can learn
.
And that's like.
One of my favorite quotes ofall time is Thomas Edison saying
you know, I didn't fail athousand times making a light
bulb.
I figured out 999 ways not tomake a light bulb and that is so
true that made him who he was.
And there isn't a single personwho has achieved any level of
(08:20):
major success who didn't fail ahundred times, 500 times, a
thousand times on their way upthe ladder.
The ones who achieve it andmake it, especially in
creativity, are the ones whoembrace failure and just make
the decision to move.
They take action and they go inunabashedly, full-hearted,
(08:41):
full-throated and say I'm goingto give this my all and if it
doesn't work, fine, I will learnthat I will iterate and I will
do it again and I will do itagain.
And when you learn to enjoythat process and that process is
so much fun.
That's when everything takesoff.
And that's what we'veexperienced in the businesses
(09:03):
that we've built, the ones wherewe, when we started focusing on
the outcome, trying to makemoney, trying to build success,
whatever that's when everythingalways went south.
But when we got lost in theprocess of creating and enjoying
it, that's when we succeeded.
It's like totally the oppositeof everything that you're taught
or seems natural to think.
Valerie (09:22):
A hundred percent.
And that's the thing, I think,why we are so jazzed up because
this feels rebellious.
It feels actually rebellious tosay no, I'm going to love my
life today in the process,regardless of the outcome,
living that full hearted, openhearted, like you you said,
(09:45):
because that is actually thejuice that we want, that without
that, if all you're doing isputting it off, putting off
feeling that way until anexternal circumstance happened,
you're essentially justpracticing feeling like crap
every day and then the more youpractice that, the more you're
(10:06):
going to get.
So some an outcome might happenand it's not even going to give
you that feeling that you thinkyou're going to get.
It's kind of like, if you'renot living that now in the
process, it's actually not goingto come.
But we hold on so tightly tothat because we are taught that
and just culturally messagingwise.
(10:27):
I'm even thinking back toschool.
It's like how, how much of itis is what do you want to be
when you grow up and where doyou want?
to go to college and da, da da.
It's like it's never about themoment, ever.
It's always about looking towhat is that next step, what is
that next milestone?
Where are you going to go toschool, what are you going to
major in and how?
(10:48):
This is just a side note.
How kind of crazy is that toask a 17, 18 year old like what
do you want to do for the wholerest of your life?
where you want to be when you're40 it's like it's like whoa,
but we are so focused on thatand so it is.
It's like we put off doing thethings we want to do or feeling
(11:11):
the way that we want to feel,because we think that we need to
wait for the permission or waitfor the validation, especially,
I think, when it comes tocreative pursuits, because this
is another act of rebellion,because this is another
messaging.
We hear all of these demeaning,belittling and sort of
downplaying terms when it comesto creativity.
(11:32):
It's like oh, your little hobby, oh, isn't that cute?
Oh, a little, a little thingfor you, a little side hustle.
It's like it's, I feel, likejust cultural messaging wise.
It just feels very downplayed.
So we think that we need to waitfor some form of legitimizing
(11:55):
or something to make it quoteunquote worth it.
But why don't we ever ask thequestion it's your life, like
what is worth your life?
That you are living today, andinstead of trying to live the
dream in the future, why aren'twe just trying to have a good
day, a good, creatively lit up,filled up.
(12:18):
You are in your element, havinga good day.
That needs to be the priorityand that's the thing.
Everybody always kicks the balldown the road and you are in
your element, having a good day.
That needs to be the priority.
Mak (12:27):
And that's the thing.
Everybody always kicks the balldown the road, and what they do
Now look, hear me out.
There's nothing wrong withhaving a vision for the future.
There's nothing wrong withhaving some goals for where you
want to be.
I actually think that's great.
We all need that.
You need something to lookforward to in life, and that's
fine.
(12:47):
But there is a big differencebetween having a goal and then
also committing your life tosomething, because that's what
everybody tells you you should,based on what your parents did,
what your friends think, howmuch money you think you need to
make, and all that.
That's not being true toyourself.
(13:07):
And the other thing that you dowhen you do that is you kick
your happiness down the road too, because what happens is you
tie your own personal joy andhappiness to achieving that
thing, and that thing could be10 years, 20 years, 30 years
down the road, or it may neveractually happen, because if
you've lived life for any briefperiod of time, things change
(13:31):
constantly, and so the trick isto learn to be happy right now,
be joyous where you are in yourspace right now and live in to
who you are and what lights youup right now.
And so often people want to shutthose lights out because,
especially in creative pursuits,it's called frivolous or stupid
(13:52):
or dumb, or because they'rebeing judged or they're afraid
that people will think thatthey're crazy, or whatever the
case might be.
So we lock ourselves intopositions in our lives that are
socially acceptable or acceptedby our parents or accepted by
our family, and we live that outand in the back of our minds
(14:15):
we're left saying, well, what if?
What if I had done this?
What if I had done this?
But we shut the creativepursuit down or the dream
business or whatever it is thatyou always want to do, because
that's not quote unquotereasonable thinking.
Valerie (14:29):
Yeah right, and this is something we can really even
rabbit trail on and I know we'lltalk a lot about this in
upcoming episodes too but we areactually addicted to feeling
bad.
That is another part of it.
There is an actual like bodilynervous system component here
(14:55):
that has wired us in to feelingconstantly bad this is science
too, by the way.
Mak (15:01):
This is not like right conjecture or woo-woo thinking.
That's the thing we are.
Valerie (15:06):
So tied in to these outcomes and kind of to untether
(15:32):
ourselves, focus on what is mygood day like, what am I
creatively lit up about here andnow, without needing anything
to happen.
But it is also untethering fromthe emotional addictions of
feeling bad and feeling likecrap.
(15:53):
And that's a real passion ofmine too, especially with
artists, because there's thiswhole like suffering, struggling
, like artist type of a thing,like a vibe going on.
You can only create if you'redying for your art, kind of
thing it's just ridiculous butcome on also so much of us, just
generally, it's a really crazyphenomenon, but we are addicted
(16:19):
to feeling bad and actuallyopening up to those feelings of
joy and letting your creativityfuel you in those ways and
delight at first can actuallyfeel unsafe at a bodily level
because we are addicted to thestress, because it almost
signals a control there, like ifyou're feeling bad, somehow
(16:42):
you're like controlling,controlling, and it's just a
really crazy thing.
There's, like I said, there's alot to dive in there, but
there's definitely a nervoussystem component that we have to
teach ourselves how to feelgood, creating and in that
moment because so many of us arejust wired the other way to
(17:07):
feel bad and I think brené browntalks about this as well how
joy is actually one of the mostvulnerable states you can be in,
because how, how often are youhaving this like burst of joy
and I know she uses the exampleof you are looking at your child
sleeping and you're just likeovercome with this immense joy,
(17:31):
and then your brain immediatelyserves you up like a horrible,
terrible thought and it's almostsaying don't be too joyful,
don't feel too good, because inthat joy you are like setting
yourself up for a crash oryou're setting yourself up to
(17:51):
feel really bad well, gayhendrix talks about this a lot
in his book where he he callsthem upper limit problems.
Mak (17:58):
but literally he studied this for years.
Um, where it's his book is theuh, the big leap and it's a
fantastic book, by the way.
Put it on your list right now.
But what he talks about is henoticed a pattern in his own
life where every time he feltjoy, his brain immediately hit
him with a thought to pull himback into something fearful or
(18:20):
something negative, and that issomething that's been
perpetuated for so long.
And if you actually payattention to that today in your
life, if you have a littlemoment where you feel good maybe
you're listening to a favoritesong or you're sipping that your
favorite drink or whatever andyou get this little moment and
you're feeling good or you'rethinking about something that
makes you happy and feel joyjust notice and see if your
(18:41):
brain starts to step in and say,ah, you can't feel, and we get
caught in this cortisol drip.
It's actually like our brain islike a drug store and it hits
us with all these differentchemicals.
And so many people are addictedto cortisol, which is a brain
(19:01):
chemical that actually it's thestress hormone.
It's the stress hormone and itis a constant drip and they're
saying it is addictive, as likehardcore drugs and sugar and
things like that, and we becomeaddicted to this never-ending
drip of cortisol in our systemand that causes stress and that
causes weight gain and thatcauses inflammation,
(19:24):
inflammation, and then thatleads to health issues and all
of this I mean this is this isan epidemic.
If you google it or search,chat, gpt about it, you can read
all about the cortisol problemthat exists right now and that
is as a result of years andyears of being trained to not
feel good.
We're it's it's like.
(19:46):
It's like we don't trust thatemotion right and and and.
So that's why there's so manybooks and so many things about
this topic, because it actuallytakes work to feel good and be
okay.
Feeling good.
It's like there is some rulethat somebody made up that we're
only allowed to feel good 10 or15 percent of the time, and
(20:06):
everything else in life has tobe hard, everything has to be
stressful.
It's like you're not allowed tomake money and be creative and
feel ease at the same time.
Your life is not allowed to beeasy, it has to be hard.
You have to follow these rules.
Where did that come from?
Valerie (20:23):
Well, and look at anything in nature.
You know anything in nature.
Nothing holds itself apart fromthriving.
Everything that is meant togrow like wants to grow to the
fullest extent possible.
There is no animal that wantsto hold itself back in these
(20:45):
small stories, but we do.
We tell ourselves these storiesand we don't trust the feelings
almost of how good could this be, how good could my day-to-day
be.
But the thing is, when you canget there in that way of
(21:05):
thinking, where your creativityis valid, you're leaning toward
whatever is whispering to you,letting it be the delight for
delight's sake, following thoseinklings of joy which are going
to be whispers.
(21:26):
You kind of have to search forthose things above the shouting
of the cortisol and the fear andall of that stuff.
But when we follow that, lifejust opens up and it does become
that getting into that flow.
(21:48):
And when you get there youactually realize that that place
is your superpower.
When you're there it's like,well, if we can finally set it
down and set down the stories,and set down the right or wrong,
the good, the bad, the shoulds,the have tos, and literally
(22:11):
just say what would light me uptoday, what sounds the most fun,
what is whispering to you andit might sound ridiculous, like
I started taking ballet lessons.
Okay, why did I do that?
Because I was watching mydaughter on stage, feeling
jealous of her, and I'm like,ooh, I'm a 40-year-old woman
(22:35):
feeling jealous of these kids.
Maybe I should follow that.
Mak (22:42):
I was just going to say.
If what we're saying right nowis making you feel a little
uncomfortable, or if what you'rehearing right now, you're like,
ah no, I don't know if Ibelieve that here's what I need
you to do, put a pin in that andthink about it.
If this is the idea the veryidea that we're suggesting, that
you should actually take timein your day to do something that
feels good and makes you happy,if that makes you uncomfortable
(23:04):
, if that doesn't prove thepoint, I don't know what will.
So if this very idea of whatwe're suggesting right now is
making you feel uncomfortable,chances are you're already
caught in this mess.
Valerie (23:18):
And how often this is another point to prove it how
often do we sabotage thosethings, like we know the things
that are actually going to makeus feel good, but what do we do
instead?
We doom scroll instead or watchthat other episode of Netflix,
when you know that you should bedoing something else that's
(23:40):
actually going to make you feelbetter.
And we do this all the time,like we are in this, this mode
of of kind of sabotagingourselves, because we're used to
being in those low places andagain, to get us out of that,
it's going to take somediscomfort and that's a little
bit of a paradox, I think, withthis idea, because it's going to
(24:03):
feel uncomfortable at first inorder to get to a place that
feels good and then you groove anew neural pathway in those
ways of feeling good.
But the thing is we don'tprioritize this as a culture.
We definitely aren't told tofollow these whispers and things
(24:28):
.
We are much heavier leaninginto the adult responsibilities
and doing the safe things andthe not risky things.
But yet, coming back to thisidea of when you do follow those
whispers and when we can openour hearts up to this way of
(24:51):
being, open our hearts up tothis way of being.
You will literally openyourself up to magic and it's
your own version of magic.
And when you are there, itdoesn't matter the strategy
that's going to trump any kindof technique.
It is going to be you,operating from that place,
(25:14):
that's going to create things.
And I think that that's kind ofwhat you were saying, mac, in
the beginning with thebusinesses that we've done, the
endeavors that were truly thesuccessful endeavors.
It came from that place wherewe weren't trying, and isn't
that so interesting?
And that goes counter toeverything you hear.
(25:36):
You hear try really, really,really hard and you need to
follow these steps and try hard,and then this happens.
But in our lives, the mostsuccess has come actually when
we weren't trying hard.
Mak (25:50):
And that's why I'm anti-hustle culture has come
actually when we weren't tryinghard.
And that's why I'm anti-hustleculture, because the idea behind
hustle culture is you sacrificeyour mental health, you
sacrifice your physical health,you sacrifice your relationships
, you sacrifice all of thisstuff For an outcome yes, for an
outcome.
And the people who havesucceeded at hustle what they
(26:12):
don't real.
First of all, they fall in twocategories.
They're completely burned out,wasted at life.
And, yeah, did they achievesome success and I've made
millions of dollars, but you'vewasted your life making those
millions of dollars because youhustled and hustled.
(26:37):
You don't have therelationships.
That wasn't a life you wereliving.
Or they fall into the othercategory, which is they loved
what they were doing so muchthat the hustle wasn't actually
work.
That's the part that issomewhat hard to understand.
(26:58):
It's like so easy.
It's hard because if youabsolutely love what you do,
when I built my first company, Iwas the guy working 80 hours a
week, 90 hours a week, but itdidn't feel like it.
I loved every second of it.
(27:21):
So, by definition, was Ihustling?
Sure, but I wasn't sacrificingmy relationships, I wasn't
sacrificing my sleep, I wasn'tsacrificing my mental abilities
or my mental situation because Iwas so wrapped up in passion
and joy with what I was doingand I was not outcome oriented
With that company.
I didn't set out to take overthe world or anything, and it
(27:41):
did.
What I created became huge.
It became one of the biggestonline media companies at that
time and I loved every second ofit.
But after it got big andinvestors and wizards of smart
and all these people came in.
They started saying, well, nowthat you're here, you have to do
this and you have to do this,and you have to do this and you
(28:02):
have to do this.
And they put all these outcomeson me and everything began to
fall apart and it started tofeel like work, because I was no
longer in the passion piece.
I had moved out into this otherpiece where everybody else kind
of resides were OK, now I'mworking towards an outcome and
and honestly, everything fellapart with that company after
(28:26):
that happened and so that's likethat's what I'm saying is is
the mess, is the part that youhave to enjoy, and you only get
there by digging into what makesyou passionate, what makes you
happy and I see this all thetime with the people that I
coach in the businesses is.
They come to me and they'refrustrated because the business
(28:46):
has kind of taken over theirlife and I'm like let's put the
brakes on.
Why did you start this to beginwith?
And we get back to the partthey're passionate about and I'm
like let's put the brakes on.
Why did you start this to beginwith?
And we get back to the partthey're passionate about.
And then we reform the businessaround that and, amazingly,
things start working and theytake off, because now they're
living in their passion againrather than being outcome
oriented.
Valerie (29:04):
But, you know, I even want to speak to the word
passion, though, because I thinkfor a lot of people that
becomes even stressful, like forsomebody who feels like what
even is my passion?
Like I don't even know, I don'tlove something that much that I
could see myself working thatmuch or doing that much, like I
don't, I don't even know, and tothat I would say, okay, maybe
(29:29):
you don't have like one solidpassion.
We hear those stories of peoplewho are just like I love this
and this is what I want todedicate my creative life to.
But I think we need tonormalize this idea of being
multi-passionate or in a periodof curiosity and discovery and
(29:59):
discovery.
So I wouldn't even let thisidea of passion and fire and it
can literally whisper again,which it normally does, and then
you just follow one whisperafter the other.
And when it comes to thosewhispers and those curiosities,
I think it's very easy to shovethose aside, because they're not
screaming at you, it's not aburning flame that's coming to
get you, but you feel deadinside every day and find
(30:22):
yourself in the same pattern ofdoom scroll, doing the things
that aren't making you feel good, but then you're addicted to
not feeling good because yourbrain is registering that is
safe.
You feel good but then you'readdicted to not feeling good
because your brain isregistering that is safe and so
we can easily talk ourselves outof following that whisper.
But it is in following thatwhisper that you start to like
(30:44):
crack open, you know, like crackopen the rock a little bit here
and so that from the outsideagain might look like what are
they doing?
Like I said about me tryingballet.
But I've learned to followthose things and I've had many
things that I've shared aboutthat I've not shared about.
(31:06):
I had a whole like earringthing that I was doing for a
while.
And was that a waste?
It's like I dumped money intothat, I dumped time into that.
I realized I actually don'tlike doing that.
Is that a waste?
No, not at all.
Mak (31:21):
And to your point, yeah, and I think you're good to get
into passion, because I do thinkit can be misunderstood.
Passion doesn't have to beburning desire 90 hours a week.
That's one example of passion.
But, as you're saying, like, Ithink a lot of people, even
right now might be you thatwe're talking about the.
(31:42):
You're like, okay, look, I getit, I'm.
You know, maybe I'm not happyin this and I know I've got
something else to offer,something else I'm gonna do, but
I have no idea what that is.
And it's one of the things youand I talk about all the time.
People always say find yourpassion and go after it, but
they don't ever tell you how todiscover what your dream is.
Because that's such a that'ssuch an open topic see, and that
(32:06):
feels like pressure yes doesn'tit?
It does, it goes back to itmakes you actually feel like
you're failing because you don'teven know what you like to do
yeah, right exactly and I havefelt that as recently as three
months ago.
So I, I understand and and, butit's.
It's actually very simple andit's what Val said, so I want to
(32:28):
highlight it again.
You might have multiplewhispers, there might be a
couple of different things inthe back of your mind that
you're like well, I've alwayswanted to try that and try this
and see what this is.
Do it all Nothing.
You don't have to plant yourflag anywhere.
You don't have to announce tothe world.
(32:48):
This is my new thing.
All you have to do is tryeverything that sounds
interesting.
A little bit, dip your toe inthe water, try it and over time,
a couple of things willprobably begin not probably will
begin to emerge and you'llstart leaning into one or two of
those things and then kind oftake it from there and that's it
(33:09):
.
There is no big secret, there'sno formula here.
If there's, just if there arethings you've been wanting to do
, and even the more frivolousthey sound or feel to you, I
think the more you should leaninto them, because when
something feels frivolous ordumb, lean into them, because
when something feels frivolousor dumb, that's probably been
(33:30):
put on you by somebody else andyou don't want to live your life
based on what somebody elsethinks or feels.
Valerie (33:37):
Right, and I just I feel like that is again this act
of rebellion that we're talkingabout.
Isn't it To follow those things?
We're not taught to do that asadults.
We're not taught to followthose curiosities.
I feel like when we're kids,we're kind of like you know,
maybe everybody has parents thatwere different, but I think we
(34:01):
were fortunate, mac, you and I,where we were like oh, I'm kind
of interested in this, and ourparents helped us discover that
encouraged that and we're veryfortunate in that way.
But as adults, I think that goesaway.
We're not encouraged to dothose things for the reasons
that were stated.
Oh, that's frivolous.
Or should I spend that time, orshould I spend that money?
(34:24):
Yes, yes, you absolutely should, because often in our lives,
especially if you feeldissatisfied, if you feel lost,
it's almost like we're waitingfor some big, grand thing to
happen, and I don't really we'llbe waiting forever for that.
It's going to be in these smallmovements, in tapping into your
(34:46):
creativity in these ways thatjust are purely curious.
It's just purely experimentalcuriosity.
And then you notice, you noticehow you are feeling.
Are you pushing up againstresistance?
And that is how we kind of gainthese clues to get closer and
(35:10):
closer to this unbound versionof you, this unleashed version
of you who is not afraid to playand to try and be unapologetic
about your own growth and yourown discovery.
And I believe, like we said,that everybody has that creative
(35:31):
spark.
We all want to make.
We all want to make indifferent ways, but I think that
is one of the ways that we justfeel purposeful in life.
And how easy is it to writethese things off?
But we should not do that.
This is actually quiteimportant and to do that, to
(35:55):
follow that, is such a deep actof self-love which is also
rebellious.
Also rebellious.
To just have that deepself-love where you want to know
yourself more, you're going toget information.
(36:20):
There's really a win-win allaround when you follow those
whispers.
But we hope that this is helpingyou get over that initial hump
of resistance which is going tobe there, whether it is the
addiction of your nervous systemto feeling a certain way,
whether it is getting over maybecultural messaging or other
voices.
But we're hoping that this isstarting to open you up.
(36:45):
And the other thing I want tosay, too, is we sometimes feel
like like if you are somebodywho is not directly in the arts,
maybe I would say I think it'seasy to look at somebody in the
arts and just like, feel likethey are so creatively lit up
and there's just likebutterflies floating around them
(37:07):
.
But I feel like some of thepeople that I've come across
that have been the most blockedare the ones in the arts,
because that's a whole other canof worms about industry and how
we're put on of, like what'sgood and what's bad and
(37:27):
technique and all of this stuff,and we can.
Actually the people who are inthat world can be the most
blocked creatively, and so Ithink this is really a human
issue that we want to breakeverybody free from even from a
(38:10):
business perspective,entrepreneurs and things like
that we get lost in.
Mak (38:11):
We're not being judged by wizards of smart like in the
artist world, like the teachersand things like that who are so
blocked, but in the businessworld we tend to lean into this
imposter syndrome, which I thinkis similar to that in a way,
where we have been told unlessyou've gone to school for this
thing and you have a marketingdegree or an MBA or whatever,
(38:35):
you can't go start this businessbecause you're not smart enough
or you don't have theexperience.
And the truth is, I actuallythink those things can hurt you.
The truth is, I actually thinkthose things can hurt you.
If you have a ton of experiencein a certain kind of business,
(38:58):
you will carry all of the badhabits that come along with that
business into whatever businessyou create, whereas if you are
new to it and you are lit upwith creative energy for it, you
are going to make mistakes andyou're going to try things that
nobody else would be willing totry because their experience has
taught them not to do it.
However, your fresh perspectivewill actually give it a
(39:23):
supercharge, will creativelyoverride things that people
wouldn't even be willing to tryotherwise, which is really super
cool.
So you know, there is somethingto be said that you can be
taught, quote, unquote the wrongthings and carry that with you
throughout your life.
So if, from a businessperspective for entrepreneurs,
(39:46):
if you are, if you want to startsomething you've never started
before and you have noexperience, perfect You're.
You are the ideal candidate todo it.
You don't need any experiencebecause you can learn.
And again, I'm going to usethat word passion.
If you are passionate aboutsolving a problem creatively,
you will figure out how to do itand you will probably come up
(40:07):
with 10 ways to do it thatnobody else has ever thought of
because you don't have years ofexperience in that thing.
And it's just like you're notcaught in the trap of thinking
like everybody else in thatindustry.
You're looking at it from acompletely different perspective
and boy is that a fantasticplace to start from.
(40:29):
It's kind of like being adisruptor, and that's an
exciting place to be, becausenot only are you at the bottom
you got to work your way upthere's like no better place
than the bottom because there'sno pressure but you also have
this incredible ability to makemistakes and learn, but do
things differently and, in a way, nobody else has ever done it
(40:49):
before what the world says itshould be done this way.
You can go.
Well, now I'm going to do itthis way.
Valerie (40:54):
Business is a creative endeavor.
We put these you know theseideas of business and we're
seeing like people in suits andstiff and it's like business.
But what is business?
It's solving problems for otherpeople.
It's it's bringing beauty toother people.
It's bringing something topeople that they want.
(41:15):
And when we talk, even in thebusiness realm like that,
becomes creative, and this isanother narrative that I feel
like I just want to bust down.
We've just felt such rage,haven't we, in our conversations
yeah, I think that's where wejust like feel this rage of what
(41:36):
people are told and we're likescreaming at our phones, and so
we just decided to scream into amicrophone on a podcast.
Mak (41:43):
well, I I think we're being like everybody else.
We're using the podcast as ourown therapy, but that's okay.
Valerie (41:49):
But I just want to say okay, how many times have we
heard oh, they're creative, butthey need a business mind, or
artists aren't good businesspeople, and I'm going artists
make the best business people,the ones who are in their
creativity.
They're willing to get messyand try things and they are
(42:14):
coming into it, like you said,with that creative mind.
Mak (42:18):
So often the upper echelon of a business, like we think,
business people are these, likeI said, like MBAs, number
crunchers, accountants, lawyers,things like this Okay, and
those people tend to only wantto solve a problem one way and
that's it.
It's black and white.
They come up with a solution toa problem and they move on and
(42:41):
they own and they only look atthe problem from one point of
view, whereas a creative personcan look at a problem and come
up with 15 different ways tosolve the problem and is willing
to try a bunch of them to findthe best way to solve a problem.
Creative people make greatentrepreneurs, make great
(43:04):
business owners, becauseunfortunately, like I said, the
upper echelon is usually theseone track mind kind of people
and they don't want to look atanything creatively and creative
solutions often save money andall this other stuff.
But it's not that way.
(43:24):
I right now, like AI isreplacing the wrong people, like
all these corporations outthere are using AI to replace
the creatives, but they shouldbe using AI to replace the
number crunchers.
That's what it's good at.
It's good at calculation.
It's good at speeding up boringprocesses.
Yeah, it can make an image, itcan make music, it can.
(43:50):
It can kind of think creatively, but it's not a person.
So instead of trying to replaceall the creatives with ai, we
need to be replacing all thepaper pushers with ai that's
what it's great.
Valerie (43:58):
That's a whole other episode we should do about ai,
because we have a lot to sayabout that well, there's and
there's, yeah, yeah, we have alot to say about everything.
I feel, yeah, we have a lot tosay about everything.
Mak (44:07):
I feel like we're just this .
We're like almost 45 minutes inand we could have like 15
episodes.
All right.
Valerie (44:13):
Here's the point If you are a creative person, which
you're listening to this podcast, I would bet that you feel that
you are a creative person insome way.
We want to lift you up, boostyou up.
We're your cheerleaders.
You are doing important workfor yourself and for the world
(44:38):
by pursuing this and givingyourself the gift of following
those nudges, following thosewhispers.
We firmly believe that youopening up to your creativity,
which is going to feel kind ofrebellious if, especially, you
have these leanings that we alot of us do in culture about
(45:03):
right or wrong, you know, goodor bad, waste of time or not,
responsible, adult or frivolous,and all of this stuff.
Go against.
That is what we're telling youbecause we firmly believe and we
are two people who have livedlives and careers and examples
(45:24):
of how following that is whatwill open you up.
Mak (45:28):
I was just going to say we don't just, we're not just like
making this up.
This is what we've done.
That's why we're so passionateabout it, because we've lived it
, we've done it.
We've lived the other way,we've made the changes and now
we're like so much more lit up,so much happier, we're making
more money easier than we everhave, and it feels really great
(45:53):
and we want you to have that too.
So if you're new here and youdon't know anything about us,
we'll do an episode about us.
We've started multiplecompanies.
We've done big things.
We've failed a ton of times.
We've started multiplecompanies.
We've done big things.
We've failed a ton of times.
We've made the biggest mistakesthat you can make.
But that's why we're here,because we know that it can be
(46:14):
done.
But we're not like your typicalguru who's saying here's a
system to do this.
We're saying we want to helpyou do it for yourself in the
way you need to do it, becauseeveryone is unique and everyone
is different.
There is no one size fits allsolution for this.
The thing to do is to startliving in joy and happiness
(46:36):
today and pursue those littlewhispers.
Pursue those little whispers,and this isn't something that's
going to be easy like snapovernight.
All of a sudden, tomorrow youfeel great.
You might have to start withfive minute increments and it's
just giving yourself fiveminutes of total bliss, whether
it's taking a bath or buying aStarbucks and walking through
the park or listening to afavorite song or calling a
(46:59):
friend I don't know what it is,but whatever it is that you can
program in your day where youcan feel true joy.
And when those negativethoughts try to interrupt you,
just look at them and you go.
Okay, I recognize you, but I'mletting it go because I'm living
in pure joy right now and I'mleaning into who I'm meant to be
and you slowly increase thatevery day.
(47:19):
This stuff will start to cometogether for you and it will
come together quickly.
Valerie (47:23):
And here's the last thing I want to say about that
is we're talking back about thataddiction to feeling bad and
the flight or fight and all ofthat which we are so often in as
a culture.
That is like where we all livein this fight or flight mode and
creativity actually shuts down.
Creativity opens up this way ofthinking, those whispers, those
(47:49):
nudges, everything we'retalking about it comes when you
activate that parasympatheticpart of your nervous system that
rest and digest.
So what Mac is saying?
We hear all of these thingsthat can sound so fluffy.
It's like, oh, self--care,self-love, whatever.
We can really just shove thatoff, I think, pretty easily, but
(48:10):
it is actually your gateway toyour most magical, lit up self
and your life and who you aremeant to be.
That is counterculture, but itis so true.
And it's not just about numbingout, it's not just about not
ignoring your feelings.
(48:31):
This is like this journey thatwe are all going on and that you
are going on with us on thispodcast is a journey of self
discovery.
It's learning about yourself.
It's about moving through someof these emotions in these
healthy ways.
You're going to start to noticebut what we hope that you take
(48:52):
away, I think from this episodeis you have this within you,
because every single person hasa unique brand of magic within
them.
That is why there's not a onesize fits all approach.
That is why you don't get themanual of being, a human manual
101.
Here go, you know.
(49:13):
Everybody has their own path.
Everybody has their own journey.
You are capable of the mostincredible things and having a
life that you love.
We believe it is creativitythat opens the door to that and
that goes beyond any one form ofart.
It is just a way of being which, to us, is operating in
(49:36):
curiosity, not being outcomeoriented, loving what you are
doing, prioritizing flow, stateover hustling, and working and
doing, and that is what we'regoing to take you on in this
journey of the podcast.
Mak (49:56):
It's getting you to a place where you're living your life
in freedom and fulfillment.
That's it.
That's all.
Any of us are really lookingfor freedom and fulfillment, and
and purpose, and that's what apurposeful like what it's all
about because you are magic.
Valerie (50:15):
You are actually magic, and you have something within
you that nobody else in thewhole entire world, that ever
was and ever will be, has.
You're here, you are made tomake.
You are made for what iswhispering to you, because the
(50:36):
only reason it's whispering toyou is because it's in you.
You don't have those thoughts.
Not everybody is having thosenudges and those promptings.
You're getting that becausethat is you, and so our job, we
feel, is to open everybody up tothat, and we want to help you
(50:58):
get there, because you have asuperpower there that is just
waiting to be unlocked we'rethere that is just waiting to be
unlocked.
Mak (51:10):
Do us a favor, and this is super important If you have
found this episode to be helpfulto you in any way or you've
enjoyed it at all, please take asecond and go on Apple or on
Spotify.
Give us a review, hit the fivestars, give us a review, because
that really helps the algorithmget the podcast in front of
other people and it also helpsus to see how we're doing.
(51:31):
If you hated the podcast, don'treview it at all, just leave it
alone.
You can find another podcastthat I'm sure will suit you.
I'm just kidding.
I'm not, but I'm just kidding.
But anyway, please take amoment to do that, and I know
that's a big ask.
I know it's a big ask becauseit's kind of a pain to do, but
it would really mean a lot.
So take a second to do that forus today and I know this is
(51:54):
only episode two and we're stillfiguring it out and all of that
but it really, it really wouldmean a lot to us because we're
so passionate about this.
Thank you so much for listening.
Valerie (52:06):
Yes, thank you so much and we will see you next time.
Bye-bye.
Mak (52:11):
Bye.
Mac is here with his fancy headphones on, looking all
very legit for our podcasttoday.
Mak (00:15):
Why are you digging on my?
Valerie (00:16):
headphones.
No, it's great.
You asked me if I wanted a pairof headphones and I don't like
feel ready to for the whole getup yet.
Mak (00:23):
Well, it's so funny because I see like videos of people's
podcasts and no one wearsheadphones and as a guy who's
been in broadcasting for 30years, it blows my mind.
I can't imagine not hearingmyself in my ears when I'm doing
something like this.
Valerie (00:39):
Well, that's what's so funny.
I'm here with a professionalbroadcaster, like the headphones
, the whole get up and I don'tknow.
I'll get the hang of it.
Mak (00:49):
You'll be fine, we'll get you the headphones.
Valerie (00:52):
We're so excited to be back with you guys.
I'm Valerie McKeon.
This is my husband, mac McKeon.
This is the second episode ofour new podcast, the Unbound
Creative, which was formerly thePeaceful Creative, but we had
just so much more we needed toget out.
Mak (01:11):
And first of all let me say I mean you put out this reel
the other day promoting thepodcast.
We got a ton of great responsefrom that.
But just the number ofdownloads we had on the first
episodes like through the roof,like one of the biggest episodes
in the two year history so far.
So if you listened and you tunein and I got some text messages
(01:33):
, I, you know it's so.
Thank you so much for listeningand supporting because we're I,
you if you can't tell we'relike really stoked about this
podcast, it's, it's feeling likewe're a little unleashed.
Valerie (01:45):
Yes, which needed to happen.
And you know we're enjoying itbecause we're recording this
right now, after our girls havegone to bed, so we're normally
so exhausted, just like readyfor Frasier and lights out.
Mak (02:02):
Yeah.
Valerie (02:02):
But we're recording this like really excited.
That's how you know we're intoit.
Mak (02:08):
True, true, so so thank you so much for being here.
Valerie (02:12):
I think the unleashed feeling that we're feeling, like
that freedom sense and uneditedand just wanting to talk about
this stuff, I think is how somany creatives feel.
But we have all of this stuffthat gets heaped on us from the
(02:34):
very beginning, From school.
We have right or wrong and wehave this sense of you have to
kind of bottle it up like don'tbe too much.
Sense of you have to kind ofbottle it up like don't be too
much.
And I think there are so manycreatives who are resonating
with this idea of being unboundand being unleashed and just
(02:55):
being that, that fullest versionof themselves, without
apologizing.
Mak (03:00):
Well, I think it's true.
I mean and I know we're focusedon creatives here, but I think
it's almost everybody.
But here's a secret I thinkeverybody is creative in one way
or another, but somewhere alongthe line you were told you
weren't, so you, you tamped itdown.
Thus why this?
This unleashing in thissomewhat rebellious feeling is
as like coming to the surface,because we are told through all
(03:24):
of our lives Don't do.
It's basically like you're toldwhat not to do.
There are all theserestrictions you like put in
this prison of your life so thatyou can be.
You've become a responsibleadult a responsible adult, just
become the perfect individualwho doesn't make anybody mad and
(03:45):
keeps themselves quiet andfalls in line and follows the
rules and does all this stuff.
And if you look at the worldall the people who have achieved
all the great success theydon't do any of those things.
Valerie (04:00):
And they got messy.
That's the thing we're soafraid of.
Messy and they got messy.
That's the thing we're soafraid of.
Messy we're so afraid of alittle undone, possibly a little
unhinged, and so we avoid thatfor the safety and no risk.
But yet the lives that arelived out loud and lived
(04:21):
unleashed, they somehow are ableto be in the mess and actually
enjoy the mess.
Because it's in doing that,it's in unleashing themselves
and being that expression ofthemselves, even though the
journey is going to be messy,that feeling alone, of that
open-hearted, like you're doingthis creative work that you feel
(04:44):
so called to do.
I think that that drives youforward when you taste that.
But it's a really kind of scaryledge to stand on.
Mak (04:54):
Well, the world has taught us to be outcome focused, and I
think that is one of the biggestproblems, because this all
starts in school, when you're aslittle as first grade maybe.
When you're taught, it's aboutgetting all the answers right on
the quiz or on the test, and soyour whole life becomes outcome
focused, and so it's ingrainedin us to focus on the outcome
(05:21):
instead of enjoying the processof learning, enjoying the
process of getting there, and sothe difference between what is
accepted widely and where we'reheaded with this and our
philosophy is we're like nofocus on loving the building,
(05:42):
loving the mess, loving theprocess.
Don't even worry about theoutcome.
Steve Jobs and all these greatleaders and thinkers they
weren't obsessed with theoutcome.
They got obsessed with theprocess, and they loved the
process.
Valerie (05:58):
They loved going to work every day, they loved
creating every single day,because it was the process that
they were in love with, not theend result you know what I'm
even thinking in school, likedefinitely with tests and
everything, it always is outcomefocused and I do think it gives
us a real fear, especially forthose who are like model
(06:18):
students, like me.
Mak (06:20):
That's not you no, I was a solid d student.
Valerie (06:24):
I mean, I was like totally total, like straight a
student and, um, I do.
I have fought that in mycreative life because there are
those perfectionist tendenciesand there's that fear of you
know I, I can't get it wrong, orthat it's so black and white
(06:45):
you know there's a right answer,you know there's a wrong answer
, and so it feels debilitatingto make a decision.
But I've had to learn thatmaking any decision is actually
the right decision and I thinkthat is so true in creativity
and really even in life.
It's like that stuck place isso much worse than doing a thing
(07:12):
, even failing at a thing.
Mak (07:14):
Oh, definitely failing, Because you're moving forward.
Valerie (07:18):
It's all a flashlight, it's all crumbs on the path when
you're moving.
It's like being a jazz musicianyou can't play, even if you
make a wrong note.
What do they say?
There are no wrong notes injazz.
It's like, even if you play anoff note, well then you just
respond to that off note, butyou're moving, it's in motion.
Mak (07:37):
Well, that's why we we talk a lot about in some of the
programs that we do.
And then the coaching that I dois failing fast and iterating.
Because people get decisionfatigue because they sit and
they worry so much about makingthe right decision and I'm
saying look, make a hundredwrong decisions, because each
(07:58):
wrong decision is going to be alittle lesson that you can learn
.
And that's like.
One of my favorite quotes ofall time is Thomas Edison saying
you know, I didn't fail athousand times making a light
bulb.
I figured out 999 ways not tomake a light bulb and that is so
true that made him who he was.
And there isn't a single personwho has achieved any level of
(08:20):
major success who didn't fail ahundred times, 500 times, a
thousand times on their way upthe ladder.
The ones who achieve it andmake it, especially in
creativity, are the ones whoembrace failure and just make
the decision to move.
They take action and they go inunabashedly, full-hearted,
(08:41):
full-throated and say I'm goingto give this my all and if it
doesn't work, fine, I will learnthat I will iterate and I will
do it again and I will do itagain.
And when you learn to enjoythat process and that process is
so much fun.
That's when everything takesoff.
And that's what we'veexperienced in the businesses
(09:03):
that we've built, the ones wherewe, when we started focusing on
the outcome, trying to makemoney, trying to build success,
whatever that's when everythingalways went south.
But when we got lost in theprocess of creating and enjoying
it, that's when we succeeded.
It's like totally the oppositeof everything that you're taught
or seems natural to think.
Valerie (09:22):
A hundred percent.
And that's the thing, I think,why we are so jazzed up because
this feels rebellious.
It feels actually rebellious tosay no, I'm going to love my
life today in the process,regardless of the outcome,
living that full hearted, openhearted, like you you said,
(09:45):
because that is actually thejuice that we want, that without
that, if all you're doing isputting it off, putting off
feeling that way until anexternal circumstance happened,
you're essentially justpracticing feeling like crap
every day and then the more youpractice that, the more you're
(10:06):
going to get.
So some an outcome might happenand it's not even going to give
you that feeling that you thinkyou're going to get.
It's kind of like, if you'renot living that now in the
process, it's actually not goingto come.
But we hold on so tightly tothat because we are taught that
and just culturally messagingwise.
(10:27):
I'm even thinking back toschool.
It's like how, how much of itis is what do you want to be
when you grow up and where doyou want?
to go to college and da, da da.
It's like it's never about themoment, ever.
It's always about looking towhat is that next step, what is
that next milestone?
Where are you going to go toschool, what are you going to
major in and how?
(10:48):
This is just a side note.
How kind of crazy is that toask a 17, 18 year old like what
do you want to do for the wholerest of your life?
where you want to be when you're40 it's like it's like whoa,
but we are so focused on thatand so it is.
It's like we put off doing thethings we want to do or feeling
(11:11):
the way that we want to feel,because we think that we need to
wait for the permission or waitfor the validation, especially,
I think, when it comes tocreative pursuits, because this
is another act of rebellion,because this is another
messaging.
We hear all of these demeaning,belittling and sort of
downplaying terms when it comesto creativity.
(11:32):
It's like oh, your little hobby, oh, isn't that cute?
Oh, a little, a little thingfor you, a little side hustle.
It's like it's, I feel, likejust cultural messaging wise.
It just feels very downplayed.
So we think that we need to waitfor some form of legitimizing
(11:55):
or something to make it quoteunquote worth it.
But why don't we ever ask thequestion it's your life, like
what is worth your life?
That you are living today, andinstead of trying to live the
dream in the future, why aren'twe just trying to have a good
day, a good, creatively lit up,filled up.
(12:18):
You are in your element, havinga good day.
That needs to be the priorityand that's the thing.
Everybody always kicks the balldown the road and you are in
your element, having a good day.
That needs to be the priority.
Mak (12:27):
And that's the thing.
Everybody always kicks the balldown the road, and what they do
Now look, hear me out.
There's nothing wrong withhaving a vision for the future.
There's nothing wrong withhaving some goals for where you
want to be.
I actually think that's great.
We all need that.
You need something to lookforward to in life, and that's
fine.
(12:47):
But there is a big differencebetween having a goal and then
also committing your life tosomething, because that's what
everybody tells you you should,based on what your parents did,
what your friends think, howmuch money you think you need to
make, and all that.
That's not being true toyourself.
(13:07):
And the other thing that you dowhen you do that is you kick
your happiness down the road too, because what happens is you
tie your own personal joy andhappiness to achieving that
thing, and that thing could be10 years, 20 years, 30 years
down the road, or it may neveractually happen, because if
you've lived life for any briefperiod of time, things change
(13:31):
constantly, and so the trick isto learn to be happy right now,
be joyous where you are in yourspace right now and live in to
who you are and what lights youup right now.
And so often people want to shutthose lights out because,
especially in creative pursuits,it's called frivolous or stupid
(13:52):
or dumb, or because they'rebeing judged or they're afraid
that people will think thatthey're crazy, or whatever the
case might be.
So we lock ourselves intopositions in our lives that are
socially acceptable or acceptedby our parents or accepted by
our family, and we live that outand in the back of our minds
(14:15):
we're left saying, well, what if?
What if I had done this?
What if I had done this?
But we shut the creativepursuit down or the dream
business or whatever it is thatyou always want to do, because
that's not quote unquotereasonable thinking.
Valerie (14:29):
Yeah right, and this is something we can really even
rabbit trail on and I know we'lltalk a lot about this in
upcoming episodes too but we areactually addicted to feeling
bad.
That is another part of it.
There is an actual like bodilynervous system component here
(14:55):
that has wired us in to feelingconstantly bad this is science
too, by the way.
Mak (15:01):
This is not like right conjecture or woo-woo thinking.
That's the thing we are.
Valerie (15:06):
So tied in to these outcomes and kind of to untether
(15:32):
ourselves, focus on what is mygood day like, what am I
creatively lit up about here andnow, without needing anything
to happen.
But it is also untethering fromthe emotional addictions of
feeling bad and feeling likecrap.
(15:53):
And that's a real passion ofmine too, especially with
artists, because there's thiswhole like suffering, struggling
, like artist type of a thing,like a vibe going on.
You can only create if you'redying for your art, kind of
thing it's just ridiculous butcome on also so much of us, just
generally, it's a really crazyphenomenon, but we are addicted
(16:19):
to feeling bad and actuallyopening up to those feelings of
joy and letting your creativityfuel you in those ways and
delight at first can actuallyfeel unsafe at a bodily level
because we are addicted to thestress, because it almost
signals a control there, like ifyou're feeling bad, somehow
(16:42):
you're like controlling,controlling, and it's just a
really crazy thing.
There's, like I said, there's alot to dive in there, but
there's definitely a nervoussystem component that we have to
teach ourselves how to feelgood, creating and in that
moment because so many of us arejust wired the other way to
(17:07):
feel bad and I think brené browntalks about this as well how
joy is actually one of the mostvulnerable states you can be in,
because how, how often are youhaving this like burst of joy
and I know she uses the exampleof you are looking at your child
sleeping and you're just likeovercome with this immense joy,
(17:31):
and then your brain immediatelyserves you up like a horrible,
terrible thought and it's almostsaying don't be too joyful,
don't feel too good, because inthat joy you are like setting
yourself up for a crash oryou're setting yourself up to
(17:51):
feel really bad well, gayhendrix talks about this a lot
in his book where he he callsthem upper limit problems.
Mak (17:58):
but literally he studied this for years.
Um, where it's his book is theuh, the big leap and it's a
fantastic book, by the way.
Put it on your list right now.
But what he talks about is henoticed a pattern in his own
life where every time he feltjoy, his brain immediately hit
him with a thought to pull himback into something fearful or
(18:20):
something negative, and that issomething that's been
perpetuated for so long.
And if you actually payattention to that today in your
life, if you have a littlemoment where you feel good maybe
you're listening to a favoritesong or you're sipping that your
favorite drink or whatever andyou get this little moment and
you're feeling good or you'rethinking about something that
makes you happy and feel joyjust notice and see if your
(18:41):
brain starts to step in and say,ah, you can't feel, and we get
caught in this cortisol drip.
It's actually like our brain islike a drug store and it hits
us with all these differentchemicals.
And so many people are addictedto cortisol, which is a brain
(19:01):
chemical that actually it's thestress hormone.
It's the stress hormone and itis a constant drip and they're
saying it is addictive, as likehardcore drugs and sugar and
things like that, and we becomeaddicted to this never-ending
drip of cortisol in our systemand that causes stress and that
causes weight gain and thatcauses inflammation,
(19:24):
inflammation, and then thatleads to health issues and all
of this I mean this is this isan epidemic.
If you google it or search,chat, gpt about it, you can read
all about the cortisol problemthat exists right now and that
is as a result of years andyears of being trained to not
feel good.
We're it's it's like.
(19:46):
It's like we don't trust thatemotion right and and and.
So that's why there's so manybooks and so many things about
this topic, because it actuallytakes work to feel good and be
okay.
Feeling good.
It's like there is some rulethat somebody made up that we're
only allowed to feel good 10 or15 percent of the time, and
(20:06):
everything else in life has tobe hard, everything has to be
stressful.
It's like you're not allowed tomake money and be creative and
feel ease at the same time.
Your life is not allowed to beeasy, it has to be hard.
You have to follow these rules.
Where did that come from?
Valerie (20:23):
Well, and look at anything in nature.
You know anything in nature.
Nothing holds itself apart fromthriving.
Everything that is meant togrow like wants to grow to the
fullest extent possible.
There is no animal that wantsto hold itself back in these
(20:45):
small stories, but we do.
We tell ourselves these storiesand we don't trust the feelings
almost of how good could this be, how good could my day-to-day
be.
But the thing is, when you canget there in that way of
(21:05):
thinking, where your creativityis valid, you're leaning toward
whatever is whispering to you,letting it be the delight for
delight's sake, following thoseinklings of joy which are going
to be whispers.
(21:26):
You kind of have to search forthose things above the shouting
of the cortisol and the fear andall of that stuff.
But when we follow that, lifejust opens up and it does become
that getting into that flow.
(21:48):
And when you get there youactually realize that that place
is your superpower.
When you're there it's like,well, if we can finally set it
down and set down the stories,and set down the right or wrong,
the good, the bad, the shoulds,the have tos, and literally
(22:11):
just say what would light me uptoday, what sounds the most fun,
what is whispering to you andit might sound ridiculous, like
I started taking ballet lessons.
Okay, why did I do that?
Because I was watching mydaughter on stage, feeling
jealous of her, and I'm like,ooh, I'm a 40-year-old woman
(22:35):
feeling jealous of these kids.
Maybe I should follow that.
Mak (22:42):
I was just going to say.
If what we're saying right nowis making you feel a little
uncomfortable, or if what you'rehearing right now, you're like,
ah no, I don't know if Ibelieve that here's what I need
you to do, put a pin in that andthink about it.
If this is the idea the veryidea that we're suggesting, that
you should actually take timein your day to do something that
feels good and makes you happy,if that makes you uncomfortable
(23:04):
, if that doesn't prove thepoint, I don't know what will.
So if this very idea of whatwe're suggesting right now is
making you feel uncomfortable,chances are you're already
caught in this mess.
Valerie (23:18):
And how often this is another point to prove it how
often do we sabotage thosethings, like we know the things
that are actually going to makeus feel good, but what do we do
instead?
We doom scroll instead or watchthat other episode of Netflix,
when you know that you should bedoing something else that's
(23:40):
actually going to make you feelbetter.
And we do this all the time,like we are in this, this mode
of of kind of sabotagingourselves, because we're used to
being in those low places andagain, to get us out of that,
it's going to take somediscomfort and that's a little
bit of a paradox, I think, withthis idea, because it's going to
(24:03):
feel uncomfortable at first inorder to get to a place that
feels good and then you groove anew neural pathway in those
ways of feeling good.
But the thing is we don'tprioritize this as a culture.
We definitely aren't told tofollow these whispers and things
(24:28):
.
We are much heavier leaninginto the adult responsibilities
and doing the safe things andthe not risky things.
But yet, coming back to thisidea of when you do follow those
whispers and when we can openour hearts up to this way of
(24:51):
being, open our hearts up tothis way of being.
You will literally openyourself up to magic and it's
your own version of magic.
And when you are there, itdoesn't matter the strategy
that's going to trump any kindof technique.
It is going to be you,operating from that place,
(25:14):
that's going to create things.
And I think that that's kind ofwhat you were saying, mac, in
the beginning with thebusinesses that we've done, the
endeavors that were truly thesuccessful endeavors.
It came from that place wherewe weren't trying, and isn't
that so interesting?
And that goes counter toeverything you hear.
(25:36):
You hear try really, really,really hard and you need to
follow these steps and try hard,and then this happens.
But in our lives, the mostsuccess has come actually when
we weren't trying hard.
Mak (25:50):
And that's why I'm anti-hustle culture has come
actually when we weren't tryinghard.
And that's why I'm anti-hustleculture, because the idea behind
hustle culture is you sacrificeyour mental health, you
sacrifice your physical health,you sacrifice your relationships
, you sacrifice all of thisstuff For an outcome yes, for an
outcome.
And the people who havesucceeded at hustle what they
(26:12):
don't real.
First of all, they fall in twocategories.
They're completely burned out,wasted at life.
And, yeah, did they achievesome success and I've made
millions of dollars, but you'vewasted your life making those
millions of dollars because youhustled and hustled.
(26:37):
You don't have therelationships.
That wasn't a life you wereliving.
Or they fall into the othercategory, which is they loved
what they were doing so muchthat the hustle wasn't actually
work.
That's the part that issomewhat hard to understand.
(26:58):
It's like so easy.
It's hard because if youabsolutely love what you do,
when I built my first company, Iwas the guy working 80 hours a
week, 90 hours a week, but itdidn't feel like it.
I loved every second of it.
(27:21):
So, by definition, was Ihustling?
Sure, but I wasn't sacrificingmy relationships, I wasn't
sacrificing my sleep, I wasn'tsacrificing my mental abilities
or my mental situation because Iwas so wrapped up in passion
and joy with what I was doingand I was not outcome oriented
With that company.
I didn't set out to take overthe world or anything, and it
(27:41):
did.
What I created became huge.
It became one of the biggestonline media companies at that
time and I loved every second ofit.
But after it got big andinvestors and wizards of smart
and all these people came in.
They started saying, well, nowthat you're here, you have to do
this and you have to do this,and you have to do this and you
(28:02):
have to do this.
And they put all these outcomeson me and everything began to
fall apart and it started tofeel like work, because I was no
longer in the passion piece.
I had moved out into this otherpiece where everybody else kind
of resides were OK, now I'mworking towards an outcome and
and honestly, everything fellapart with that company after
(28:26):
that happened and so that's likethat's what I'm saying is is
the mess, is the part that youhave to enjoy, and you only get
there by digging into what makesyou passionate, what makes you
happy and I see this all thetime with the people that I
coach in the businesses is.
They come to me and they'refrustrated because the business
(28:46):
has kind of taken over theirlife and I'm like let's put the
brakes on.
Why did you start this to beginwith?
And we get back to the partthey're passionate about and I'm
like let's put the brakes on.
Why did you start this to beginwith?
And we get back to the partthey're passionate about.
And then we reform the businessaround that and, amazingly,
things start working and theytake off, because now they're
living in their passion againrather than being outcome
oriented.
Valerie (29:04):
But, you know, I even want to speak to the word
passion, though, because I thinkfor a lot of people that
becomes even stressful, like forsomebody who feels like what
even is my passion?
Like I don't even know, I don'tlove something that much that I
could see myself working thatmuch or doing that much, like I
don't, I don't even know, and tothat I would say, okay, maybe
(29:29):
you don't have like one solidpassion.
We hear those stories of peoplewho are just like I love this
and this is what I want todedicate my creative life to.
But I think we need tonormalize this idea of being
multi-passionate or in a periodof curiosity and discovery and
(29:59):
discovery.
So I wouldn't even let thisidea of passion and fire and it
can literally whisper again,which it normally does, and then
you just follow one whisperafter the other.
And when it comes to thosewhispers and those curiosities,
I think it's very easy to shovethose aside, because they're not
screaming at you, it's not aburning flame that's coming to
get you, but you feel deadinside every day and find
(30:22):
yourself in the same pattern ofdoom scroll, doing the things
that aren't making you feel good, but then you're addicted to
not feeling good because yourbrain is registering that is
safe.
You feel good but then you'readdicted to not feeling good
because your brain isregistering that is safe and so
we can easily talk ourselves outof following that whisper.
But it is in following thatwhisper that you start to like
(30:44):
crack open, you know, like crackopen the rock a little bit here
and so that from the outsideagain might look like what are
they doing?
Like I said about me tryingballet.
But I've learned to followthose things and I've had many
things that I've shared aboutthat I've not shared about.
(31:06):
I had a whole like earringthing that I was doing for a
while.
And was that a waste?
It's like I dumped money intothat, I dumped time into that.
I realized I actually don'tlike doing that.
Is that a waste?
No, not at all.
Mak (31:21):
And to your point, yeah, and I think you're good to get
into passion, because I do thinkit can be misunderstood.
Passion doesn't have to beburning desire 90 hours a week.
That's one example of passion.
But, as you're saying, like, Ithink a lot of people, even
right now might be you thatwe're talking about the.
(31:42):
You're like, okay, look, I getit, I'm.
You know, maybe I'm not happyin this and I know I've got
something else to offer,something else I'm gonna do, but
I have no idea what that is.
And it's one of the things youand I talk about all the time.
People always say find yourpassion and go after it, but
they don't ever tell you how todiscover what your dream is.
Because that's such a that'ssuch an open topic see, and that
(32:06):
feels like pressure yes doesn'tit?
It does, it goes back to itmakes you actually feel like
you're failing because you don'teven know what you like to do
yeah, right exactly and I havefelt that as recently as three
months ago.
So I, I understand and and, butit's.
It's actually very simple andit's what Val said, so I want to
(32:28):
highlight it again.
You might have multiplewhispers, there might be a
couple of different things inthe back of your mind that
you're like well, I've alwayswanted to try that and try this
and see what this is.
Do it all Nothing.
You don't have to plant yourflag anywhere.
You don't have to announce tothe world.
(32:48):
This is my new thing.
All you have to do is tryeverything that sounds
interesting.
A little bit, dip your toe inthe water, try it and over time,
a couple of things willprobably begin not probably will
begin to emerge and you'llstart leaning into one or two of
those things and then kind oftake it from there and that's it
(33:09):
.
There is no big secret, there'sno formula here.
If there's, just if there arethings you've been wanting to do
, and even the more frivolousthey sound or feel to you, I
think the more you should leaninto them, because when
something feels frivolous ordumb, lean into them, because
when something feels frivolousor dumb, that's probably been
(33:30):
put on you by somebody else andyou don't want to live your life
based on what somebody elsethinks or feels.
Valerie (33:37):
Right, and I just I feel like that is again this act
of rebellion that we're talkingabout.
Isn't it To follow those things?
We're not taught to do that asadults.
We're not taught to followthose curiosities.
I feel like when we're kids,we're kind of like you know,
maybe everybody has parents thatwere different, but I think we
(34:01):
were fortunate, mac, you and I,where we were like oh, I'm kind
of interested in this, and ourparents helped us discover that
encouraged that and we're veryfortunate in that way.
But as adults, I think that goesaway.
We're not encouraged to dothose things for the reasons
that were stated.
Oh, that's frivolous.
Or should I spend that time, orshould I spend that money?
(34:24):
Yes, yes, you absolutely should, because often in our lives,
especially if you feeldissatisfied, if you feel lost,
it's almost like we're waitingfor some big, grand thing to
happen, and I don't really we'llbe waiting forever for that.
It's going to be in these smallmovements, in tapping into your
(34:46):
creativity in these ways thatjust are purely curious.
It's just purely experimentalcuriosity.
And then you notice, you noticehow you are feeling.
Are you pushing up againstresistance?
And that is how we kind of gainthese clues to get closer and
(35:10):
closer to this unbound versionof you, this unleashed version
of you who is not afraid to playand to try and be unapologetic
about your own growth and yourown discovery.
And I believe, like we said,that everybody has that creative
(35:31):
spark.
We all want to make.
We all want to make indifferent ways, but I think that
is one of the ways that we justfeel purposeful in life.
And how easy is it to writethese things off?
But we should not do that.
This is actually quiteimportant and to do that, to
(35:55):
follow that, is such a deep actof self-love which is also
rebellious.
Also rebellious.
To just have that deepself-love where you want to know
yourself more, you're going toget information.
(36:20):
There's really a win-win allaround when you follow those
whispers.
But we hope that this is helpingyou get over that initial hump
of resistance which is going tobe there, whether it is the
addiction of your nervous systemto feeling a certain way,
whether it is getting over maybecultural messaging or other
voices.
But we're hoping that this isstarting to open you up.
(36:45):
And the other thing I want tosay, too, is we sometimes feel
like like if you are somebodywho is not directly in the arts,
maybe I would say I think it'seasy to look at somebody in the
arts and just like, feel likethey are so creatively lit up
and there's just likebutterflies floating around them
(37:07):
.
But I feel like some of thepeople that I've come across
that have been the most blockedare the ones in the arts,
because that's a whole other canof worms about industry and how
we're put on of, like what'sgood and what's bad and
(37:27):
technique and all of this stuff,and we can.
Actually the people who are inthat world can be the most
blocked creatively, and so Ithink this is really a human
issue that we want to breakeverybody free from even from a
(38:10):
business perspective,entrepreneurs and things like
that we get lost in.
Mak (38:11):
We're not being judged by wizards of smart like in the
artist world, like the teachersand things like that who are so
blocked, but in the businessworld we tend to lean into this
imposter syndrome, which I thinkis similar to that in a way,
where we have been told unlessyou've gone to school for this
thing and you have a marketingdegree or an MBA or whatever,
(38:35):
you can't go start this businessbecause you're not smart enough
or you don't have theexperience.
And the truth is, I actuallythink those things can hurt you.
The truth is, I actually thinkthose things can hurt you.
If you have a ton of experiencein a certain kind of business,
(38:58):
you will carry all of the badhabits that come along with that
business into whatever businessyou create, whereas if you are
new to it and you are lit upwith creative energy for it, you
are going to make mistakes andyou're going to try things that
nobody else would be willing totry because their experience has
taught them not to do it.
However, your fresh perspectivewill actually give it a
(39:23):
supercharge, will creativelyoverride things that people
wouldn't even be willing to tryotherwise, which is really super
cool.
So you know, there is somethingto be said that you can be
taught, quote, unquote the wrongthings and carry that with you
throughout your life.
So if, from a businessperspective for entrepreneurs,
(39:46):
if you are, if you want to startsomething you've never started
before and you have noexperience, perfect You're.
You are the ideal candidate todo it.
You don't need any experiencebecause you can learn.
And again, I'm going to usethat word passion.
If you are passionate aboutsolving a problem creatively,
you will figure out how to do itand you will probably come up
(40:07):
with 10 ways to do it thatnobody else has ever thought of
because you don't have years ofexperience in that thing.
And it's just like you're notcaught in the trap of thinking
like everybody else in thatindustry.
You're looking at it from acompletely different perspective
and boy is that a fantasticplace to start from.
(40:29):
It's kind of like being adisruptor, and that's an
exciting place to be, becausenot only are you at the bottom
you got to work your way upthere's like no better place
than the bottom because there'sno pressure but you also have
this incredible ability to makemistakes and learn, but do
things differently and, in a way, nobody else has ever done it
(40:49):
before what the world says itshould be done this way.
You can go.
Well, now I'm going to do itthis way.
Valerie (40:54):
Business is a creative endeavor.
We put these you know theseideas of business and we're
seeing like people in suits andstiff and it's like business.
But what is business?
It's solving problems for otherpeople.
It's it's bringing beauty toother people.
It's bringing something topeople that they want.
(41:15):
And when we talk, even in thebusiness realm like that,
becomes creative, and this isanother narrative that I feel
like I just want to bust down.
We've just felt such rage,haven't we, in our conversations
yeah, I think that's where wejust like feel this rage of what
(41:36):
people are told and we're likescreaming at our phones, and so
we just decided to scream into amicrophone on a podcast.
Mak (41:43):
well, I I think we're being like everybody else.
We're using the podcast as ourown therapy, but that's okay.
Valerie (41:49):
But I just want to say okay, how many times have we
heard oh, they're creative, butthey need a business mind, or
artists aren't good businesspeople, and I'm going artists
make the best business people,the ones who are in their
creativity.
They're willing to get messyand try things and they are
(42:14):
coming into it, like you said,with that creative mind.
Mak (42:18):
So often the upper echelon of a business, like we think,
business people are these, likeI said, like MBAs, number
crunchers, accountants, lawyers,things like this Okay, and
those people tend to only wantto solve a problem one way and
that's it.
It's black and white.
They come up with a solution toa problem and they move on and
(42:41):
they own and they only look atthe problem from one point of
view, whereas a creative personcan look at a problem and come
up with 15 different ways tosolve the problem and is willing
to try a bunch of them to findthe best way to solve a problem.
Creative people make greatentrepreneurs, make great
(43:04):
business owners, becauseunfortunately, like I said, the
upper echelon is usually theseone track mind kind of people
and they don't want to look atanything creatively and creative
solutions often save money andall this other stuff.
But it's not that way.
(43:24):
I right now, like AI isreplacing the wrong people, like
all these corporations outthere are using AI to replace
the creatives, but they shouldbe using AI to replace the
number crunchers.
That's what it's good at.
It's good at calculation.
It's good at speeding up boringprocesses.
Yeah, it can make an image, itcan make music, it can.
(43:50):
It can kind of think creatively, but it's not a person.
So instead of trying to replaceall the creatives with ai, we
need to be replacing all thepaper pushers with ai that's
what it's great.
Valerie (43:58):
That's a whole other episode we should do about ai,
because we have a lot to sayabout that well, there's and
there's, yeah, yeah, we have alot to say about everything.
I feel, yeah, we have a lot tosay about everything.
Mak (44:07):
I feel like we're just this .
We're like almost 45 minutes inand we could have like 15
episodes.
All right.
Valerie (44:13):
Here's the point If you are a creative person, which
you're listening to this podcast, I would bet that you feel that
you are a creative person insome way.
We want to lift you up, boostyou up.
We're your cheerleaders.
You are doing important workfor yourself and for the world
(44:38):
by pursuing this and givingyourself the gift of following
those nudges, following thosewhispers.
We firmly believe that youopening up to your creativity,
which is going to feel kind ofrebellious if, especially, you
have these leanings that we alot of us do in culture about
(45:03):
right or wrong, you know, goodor bad, waste of time or not,
responsible, adult or frivolous,and all of this stuff.
Go against.
That is what we're telling youbecause we firmly believe and we
are two people who have livedlives and careers and examples
(45:24):
of how following that is whatwill open you up.
Mak (45:28):
I was just going to say we don't just, we're not just like
making this up.
This is what we've done.
That's why we're so passionateabout it, because we've lived it
, we've done it.
We've lived the other way,we've made the changes and now
we're like so much more lit up,so much happier, we're making
more money easier than we everhave, and it feels really great
(45:53):
and we want you to have that too.
So if you're new here and youdon't know anything about us,
we'll do an episode about us.
We've started multiplecompanies.
We've done big things.
We've failed a ton of times.
We've started multiplecompanies.
We've done big things.
We've failed a ton of times.
We've made the biggest mistakesthat you can make.
But that's why we're here,because we know that it can be
(46:14):
done.
But we're not like your typicalguru who's saying here's a
system to do this.
We're saying we want to helpyou do it for yourself in the
way you need to do it, becauseeveryone is unique and everyone
is different.
There is no one size fits allsolution for this.
The thing to do is to startliving in joy and happiness
(46:36):
today and pursue those littlewhispers.
Pursue those little whispers,and this isn't something that's
going to be easy like snapovernight.
All of a sudden, tomorrow youfeel great.
You might have to start withfive minute increments and it's
just giving yourself fiveminutes of total bliss, whether
it's taking a bath or buying aStarbucks and walking through
the park or listening to afavorite song or calling a
(46:59):
friend I don't know what it is,but whatever it is that you can
program in your day where youcan feel true joy.
And when those negativethoughts try to interrupt you,
just look at them and you go.
Okay, I recognize you, but I'mletting it go because I'm living
in pure joy right now and I'mleaning into who I'm meant to be
and you slowly increase thatevery day.
(47:19):
This stuff will start to cometogether for you and it will
come together quickly.
Valerie (47:23):
And here's the last thing I want to say about that
is we're talking back about thataddiction to feeling bad and
the flight or fight and all ofthat which we are so often in as
a culture.
That is like where we all livein this fight or flight mode and
creativity actually shuts down.
Creativity opens up this way ofthinking, those whispers, those
(47:49):
nudges, everything we'retalking about it comes when you
activate that parasympatheticpart of your nervous system that
rest and digest.
So what Mac is saying?
We hear all of these thingsthat can sound so fluffy.
It's like, oh, self--care,self-love, whatever.
We can really just shove thatoff, I think, pretty easily, but
(48:10):
it is actually your gateway toyour most magical, lit up self
and your life and who you aremeant to be.
That is counterculture, but itis so true.
And it's not just about numbingout, it's not just about not
ignoring your feelings.
(48:31):
This is like this journey thatwe are all going on and that you
are going on with us on thispodcast is a journey of self
discovery.
It's learning about yourself.
It's about moving through someof these emotions in these
healthy ways.
You're going to start to noticebut what we hope that you take
(48:52):
away, I think from this episodeis you have this within you,
because every single person hasa unique brand of magic within
them.
That is why there's not a onesize fits all approach.
That is why you don't get themanual of being, a human manual
101.
Here go, you know.
(49:13):
Everybody has their own path.
Everybody has their own journey.
You are capable of the mostincredible things and having a
life that you love.
We believe it is creativitythat opens the door to that and
that goes beyond any one form ofart.
It is just a way of being which, to us, is operating in
(49:36):
curiosity, not being outcomeoriented, loving what you are
doing, prioritizing flow, stateover hustling, and working and
doing, and that is what we'regoing to take you on in this
journey of the podcast.
Mak (49:56):
It's getting you to a place where you're living your life
in freedom and fulfillment.
That's it.
That's all.
Any of us are really lookingfor freedom and fulfillment, and
and purpose, and that's what apurposeful like what it's all
about because you are magic.
Valerie (50:15):
You are actually magic, and you have something within
you that nobody else in thewhole entire world, that ever
was and ever will be, has.
You're here, you are made tomake.
You are made for what iswhispering to you, because the
(50:36):
only reason it's whispering toyou is because it's in you.
You don't have those thoughts.
Not everybody is having thosenudges and those promptings.
You're getting that becausethat is you, and so our job, we
feel, is to open everybody up tothat, and we want to help you
(50:58):
get there, because you have asuperpower there that is just
waiting to be unlocked we'rethere that is just waiting to be
unlocked.
Mak (51:10):
Do us a favor, and this is super important If you have
found this episode to be helpfulto you in any way or you've
enjoyed it at all, please take asecond and go on Apple or on
Spotify.
Give us a review, hit the fivestars, give us a review, because
that really helps the algorithmget the podcast in front of
other people and it also helpsus to see how we're doing.
(51:31):
If you hated the podcast, don'treview it at all, just leave it
alone.
You can find another podcastthat I'm sure will suit you.
I'm just kidding.
I'm not, but I'm just kidding.
But anyway, please take amoment to do that, and I know
that's a big ask.
I know it's a big ask becauseit's kind of a pain to do, but
it would really mean a lot.
So take a second to do that forus today and I know this is
(51:54):
only episode two and we're stillfiguring it out and all of that
but it really, it really wouldmean a lot to us because we're
so passionate about this.
Thank you so much for listening.
Valerie (52:06):
Yes, thank you so much and we will see you next time.
Bye-bye.
Mak (52:11):
Bye.
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