Episode Transcript
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Jen (00:03):
Welcome back to the
unbreakable boundaries podcast
with your host, myself, JenniferManeely. And today's episode, I
have a guest with me that I metrecently at an event and her
story was just, oh, it was sopowerful. And I knew immediately
that I just had to reach out andbe like, you gotta come talk to
my audience. So her name isFreida, McDonald. And I am so
(00:28):
honored that she was willing tocome here and chat and tell us a
little bit about her story andwhat she's doing in the
community to help others so freeto welcome to the podcast.
Freida (00:40):
Thank you so much.
Jennifer is wonderful to behere. And I'm so happy that we
met.
Jen (00:44):
So me too. And I think we
met at a prism event, which
stands for and I hope I can getthis right. People's recovery. I
don't remember the rest. Butit's a recovery services
conferences. It's basically theidea is we, all the providers in
(01:08):
this community and other peopleget together and we talk about
how are we helping in therecovery community, whether it
be with the families, whether itbe with the person that needs
recovery, it's all abouteducation, and just a great
community to be a part of whenyou know, we have loved ones
(01:30):
with substance abuse issues, andwe don't know where to go, that
it's all sorts of differentresources like myself, like free
to, and so free to, could youtell my audience a little bit
about what your organization isdoing?
Freida (01:46):
Absolutely. Unity. Yeah,
thank you. I never really refer
to the event as prism, eventhough I know that's it. It's
the opioid Summit. And it reallyis other substance use as well.
And I've always been so honoredto have Maryland and bite me.
It's it was the third year. Soit was the third time that I was
able to be there. So again, I'mglad I got to meet you there.
(02:09):
And no hope North Carolina is mynonprofit. And the reason that I
started No Hope North Carolina Ialways start off with is because
of the loss of my two sons. Myoldest son Steven had the
tattoo, no hope. And when Iasked him why he got that
particular tattoo, he said,because you got to know hope
(02:32):
more. So that has really stuckwith me through the through
these losses. I lost him 10years ago, January 26 2012. And
I lost him to gun violence. Sothat was not an opioid related
loss or a substance use disorderloss. But it was a profound loss
(02:53):
in my life and my family's life.
And I did not really know whereto turn. So in not knowing where
to turn, I found that there wasjust an absence of resources and
things for people that were inearly grief that was tragic and
unexpected. And it really had ahuge impact on his younger
(03:16):
brother who was just just turned20 That year, and he ended up
going somewhere with his pain,which was substance use. And it
turned into an addiction opioidsthat actually ended up in heroin
use, which ended up in his deathin Wilmington, Valentine's Day
(03:41):
2016 in a recovery house room.
From fentanyl in 2016. I didn'tknow anything about fentanyl at
all other than fentanyl patchesfor cancer patients. Right. So
that was a beginning of alearning opportunity right
(04:05):
there. So no hope North Carolinarepresents my son Michael and
his struggle with opioids aswell as unfortunately many of
his friends. And it is a bannerbehind me that if you can see
that on the the YouTube thatthat Jennifer will put up and it
(04:28):
shows 100 Loved ones that allhave lost their lives to
substance use disorder. And theythat they all are an average age
on this first day in or they're24
Jen (04:44):
Wow. And on the banner. So
when you were speaking at the
opioid summit, I somethingreally cool. You brought in the
banners which it's it's such a Idon't want to say like, it's a
cool thing, because none of thisis very great. Like, this is all
(05:06):
very sad. And it's like, if thishappens, how are we taking care
of ourselves managing ourselves?
How are we healing and growingfrom this, and in these banners,
really, it sounded like, helps alot of people that since they
(05:27):
have lost their loved ones, thiswas a great community just
support and come together inremembrance of the people that
they've lost. Yes, and go ahead.
Freida (05:43):
I was gonna say that.
Initially, when I made theremark about not knowing where
to go with my pain, I didn'treally have anyone else that I
knew that had experienced what Ihad experienced. But as time
went on, I became involved and,and began to participate and
facilitate grief groups. And Ibegan to meet people. And as I
(06:07):
met people, I think we both saidto each other earlier, it takes
a village as I met people, itwas a real common thread,
everybody wanted to dosomething. Nobody wanted anybody
to have to experience what theyhad experienced. And they really
had that drive to, I want myperson to be remembered, of
(06:29):
course. And also, I believe thatmy, my person would want me to
continue on and do something tohelp their friends and anyone
else who struggled the way theydid. And that was a very common
thread with the people I beganto meet. So in the interest of
being able to connect with evena wider village, so to speak, I
(06:50):
created a Facebook page, no hopeNorth Carolina. and own it, it
was it was the mission, whichwas to remember those that we've
lost, support those in recovery,and give hope to the people that
are still struggling. And I wasvery surprised at how many
(07:11):
people in such a short period oftime began to join the group.
And it was just for NorthCarolina. So I had been on
groups like can you see me nowthat do banners all over the
country that have everyone fromCalifornia to North Carolina
posting their loved ones, andthey have 30 banners with 150
(07:35):
people on each of them. And Ihad I had gotten support from
Tracy, Curtis Carter and seeingthat happen. But I did think
when I reeled it down to justNorth Carolina, that I might
have a couple of banners, andthey would just be nice to take
with me to anytime I spoke at arehab or anywhere that I went
(07:57):
for a visual or any type ofremembrance event. But as it
turned out, more and more peopleto this day are still submitting
their loved ones. And I'mcurrently working on the fourth
banner. And it's only been anonprofit for a little over a
year.
Jen (08:17):
Wow. And it's so I there
was one summer of two or three
years, maybe like three yearsago, and I lost a lot of people
pretty close together. It waslike, a it was not a great
summer for me. Hard. Yeah. And Iwas such in deep grief that I
(08:44):
didn't know what to do formyself. So I'm obviously gonna
start getting a littleemotional. But I just, I just, I
was in so much pain that Ididn't know how to handle myself
and I came up with this idea,even for just just me of
creating. I have like a wall inmy office, which you can't, you
(09:11):
can't see because there's like alittle block. But there's a wall
that I have posted pictures ofall the people that I've lost.
And what was so powerful for mewas my ability to kind of create
that space, so that each personI can still like I'll every now
(09:35):
and then I'll go to that wall,and I'll stare and I'll pick
someone to have a moment, aspace that I can think about
them, to miss them to grievethem to just honor them and how
powerful creating that space hasbeen for my own grief process.
(09:58):
So I imagine that With thesebanners that you're talking
about, it's, it's such a tragicthing to have people that we
love have to go on to thesebanners. And what a, what an
amazing place for them to bethat we can honor them that we
(10:18):
can remember them that we cankeep their thoughts alive. And
then we can help other people intheir process of grief.
Freida (10:28):
Absolutely love what you
just said, to have that sacred
place that you can just go andwhen you're feeling those
things, and honor thosefeelings, because those feelings
are going to come out one way oranother, and very, very safe
place for them to come out inyour sacred place that you go to
(10:49):
remember. And it's a totallybelieve it helps so much. i It
makes me think about so manythings that people do. But this
past spring, I did an internshipat Hill and transitions in
Raleigh, and they have a placefor people that they've lost too
(11:10):
soon with, with pictures intheir detox unit. And I am
always amazed at how the impactof people whether they're brand
new to detox that night, orwhether they're, they weren't
there and they've looked at it.
Many, many times, they theyalways stop and reflect and
remember when they look at thosepictures. So it's it's a, it's a
(11:34):
very, very sacred way to handlethose kinds of losses. And in my
own personal space that I'msitting in right now, I have the
smaller version of all of thesebanners. And I look at them
every day in much the same way.
Jen (11:57):
Yeah, yeah. And I think
it's such a, it's such a special
thing for us to do forourselves. Because I know from
my past of not really dealingwith a lot of my emotions, and
(12:17):
covering things up that theyhave a tendency to come out in
very interesting ways when Idon't allow myself to really
honor where I'm at, in myfeelings, whatever that means,
however painful it is, when Idon't honor those feelings, they
have a tendency to come out inodd and interesting ways that
(12:38):
usually involves meunintentionally hurting someone
else. And it maybe it's throughlashing out. Maybe it's I you
know, maybe I'll say somethingmean, or my decisions impact
(12:59):
someone else. That's that's alot of how I have found that,
that my own feelings come out.
And what great thing for thatyou're doing is creating a
space, a safe place, a communityof people that can acknowledge
their feelings in a safe way.
(13:23):
And I think that's so crucial.
When we are in this type ofcommunity, whether it's a grief
of actually losing a loved one,or maybe it's the feelings of
they're still alive, but theystill feel gone, and they still
feel lost, and you still feelhopeless, and you don't know
what to do. And I thinksometimes we're like, well, we
(13:47):
don't want to bring up problemsif we don't have solutions to
the problems, but sometimes wejust need to talk about it.
Absolutely.
Freida (13:58):
And the one thing I
really love about the Facebook
site is not only does a lovedone send in their picture and
birthday, and I call them Angeldates, the date they left us not
only do they do that, but theyjoin the form, they come in on
no hope and they begin to talkto one another court that they
(14:21):
have by comparing stories andfeelings and where they are and
how they're handling it beingOctober in the days getting
shorter and the leafs fallingoff the trees and going into
another season without theirloved one. This is simple is a
conversation that I hadyesterday, but the ability to
(14:42):
share that with somebody that'sright there with you that has
that common thread in theirlife, I believe is a very
healthy way to process grief.
Jen (14:52):
Absolutely, absolutely. And
it's just that having other
people around that reallyunderstand what it is that
you're going through, we don'thave to solve all the world's
problems. Right? Right.
Sometimes there is, yes,sometimes there isn't a
solution, it doesn't mean thatwe can't still need the ability
to talk about what we areexperiencing and how we feel and
(15:17):
just know that we are not alonein this. Yes.
Freida (15:25):
And I think that is so
important to not feel isolated,
which the COVID of course,didn't help at all with no, but
not feel isolated. And to notfeel like you said, just alone
in your grief or alone in yourcircumstances. And I can
honestly say that some of myclosest people, the people that
(15:48):
are my go to people now arepeople that I have met, because
of our common bond, goingthrough an immediate family
loss. And it can be a spouse, itcan be a sibling, it can be just
a dear friend that was with youfor your whole life even but
just someone that you still wantto pick the phone up and call
(16:12):
when something big happens. Andyou're unable to do that.
That's, that's very common in alot of the conversations that I
have. Because it takes a longtime to process grief. And it's,
there's not no timeline on it.
Jen (16:27):
No, there isn't. And, you
know, grief doesn't always have
to be just as a direct resultof, of losing someone to within
passing, it can also look a lotin, in a way of we have to
(16:48):
sometimes grieve and let go ofwho we thought our loved ones
were going to be and love whothey are in the moment. Right?
Yes.
Freida (16:58):
And meet them where they
are in the moment and meet them
force includes when they'restill struggling with the
disease of substance usedisorder. Yes. I have learned so
much about that in the last sixyears since losing Michael, that
I try my best to share thosefeelings with everybody I can
(17:21):
that still experiencing thegrief of having a living person,
but they're not having the lifethat they had always hoped and
dreamed for them? That that's astruggle for a lot of families.
And, and being there is is oftena challenge and people don't
(17:41):
know quite how to handle it.
Jen (17:44):
Yes, because it looks very
different. It's so
counterintuitive, as if you're aparent, being there, for someone
that has the substance usedisorder. It looks it is very
counterintuitive to everythingthat you think of being a parent
to someone is so
Freida (18:07):
yeah, I always make it
and people smile when I say it,
even people that are grieving,but they say you know how can
you not be so overly concernedabout the situation when you
spent years trying to make themeat their green beans, I don't
know where I got that from. Butall I ever meant by that was,
you know, you were so concernedabout every little thing that
(18:28):
they did whether they had on theright code, or, you know,
whatever their nutrition levelwas, or whether they needed to
just go see the pediatrician arenot in this Spoken like a true
mom here. I know. But, you know,to be like that, and then have
substance use disorder. Andwhere do we go with this? And
what do we do when it's neverbeen something that you've had
(18:51):
to face before, but you'refacing it with someone that you
love beyond measure is, is achallenge. And I think that it's
so incredibly helpful to findothers that are going through
the same just as it is if youare suffering from grief of
(19:12):
someone that you've alreadylost. So either one of those is
just grieving on a differentlevel.
Jen (19:20):
And you had just mentioned
that you had learned so much
since passing of your loved one.
What would you say would be thenumber one thing that you've
learned?
Freida (19:33):
I have learned that
being there for someone you love
through no matter what it isthat you will never regret it
because life is so unexpectedand can be so short and I am so
incredibly grateful foreverything that I did with him
(19:57):
for my children. I just I justhang on to it. And those are
some of my fondest memories.
And, Stan, I've been in many,many conversations about
enabling and all of that. And Iget it, I know that there's like
this. It's an art not a scienceof when to step in, and when to
step out, kind of, quote, writeit, that is very, very, very
(20:20):
true. But you know your personbetter than anybody, when it's a
family member, and you know, howthey react and what they do. And
you've got to trust your owngut, on what, what to do for
them. And I have really, reallylearned that, because I can live
(20:40):
with the fact that I had many,many conversations, went to many
NA meetings, did so many thingswith Michael, and he became so
honest with me about hisstruggles that I learned from
him, I learned more and moreeach day that he went through
(21:02):
that. But if I had said that, ifI had made the choice to say,
you can't live here, or youcan't be in this environment,
until you get yourself together,or I'll just wait until he hits
rock bottom, I would have neverhad the opportunity to be with
(21:23):
him over the last couple ofyears of his life, because his
his addiction was relativelyshort, I lost my two boys, four
years apart, and he he starteddown that road after the loss of
his brother. So I didn't havethat much time. So I'm so
(21:43):
thankful that would be my numberone thing that I'm thankful for,
for being there for him in everyway. I knew how at the time.
Jen (21:53):
Yeah. And I think what
you're saying it because this is
a lot of the work that I do withwith parents that come to me, is
I don't go down the road oftalking about enabling or
anything like that. I thinkthat's a really vague thing. And
it's very unclear. And I can'tlike me, personally, I cannot
(22:14):
tell anybody else what the rightanswer is for them and what they
feel. And so what we do tapinto, just like you're saying
is, you know, really payingattention to a person's
instincts. So what feels good atthe time, what do you think is
going to really serve thisperson that's right in front of
(22:38):
you. And that's really what weexplore is, let's look at all
the ways in which you thinkyou're going to help now if you
feel uncomfortable in in anaction that you're taking, let's
look at that and see where wecan be of service to this person
in front of you, while you'realso comfortable. Like with the
(22:58):
decision, not that it's easy. Noone's saying the decisions are
easy. But how do you feel aboutthe decisions that you're
making? Let's forget abouteveryone else, and what they're
saying, Who cares?
Freida (23:10):
Right. And, and, and
what what I have gotten better
at than I was that when my sonwas still here is that I really
do meet people where they are.
And I really do talk to themabout what the advantages that
they feel they have by thelifestyle they're living and
what the disadvantages are aboutthe lifestyle they're living and
(23:32):
get them to just talk aboutthem. Because people listen to
themselves more than they listento anyone else apps and say,
that's what I that's how Ioperate. That's, that's that's
what I do. I can't say I wasalways the best that with my
sons. Because as I said, I amlearning I have been learning
(23:52):
since you know, I more at thatpoint took on the role that I
was the parent and I wassupposed to be the one with the
answers. And that's that'sreally not true. I did not have
the answers to that particularproblem. And they're in
Michael's life.
Jen (24:11):
Right? Because they weren't
your answers to find.
Freida (24:15):
Yes, that's exactly Oh,
that's powerful. Like that. They
weren't my answers to find andin reality, even if someone is
your, your, your main partner oryour or your child, we all have
our own life. And we all haveour rights, our own choices. We
just hope for one another thatwe make choices that are good
(24:38):
for each of us. And that'sreally the way it works and in
the end. So I think I think thatmy church, my children gave me
the gift, the most importantgifts in life that I will ever
have. And that is how to respecthow wherever People are and try
(25:01):
to meet them there and help themin whatever way that I can. With
without, without hurting myselfin the process. Yeah.
Jen (25:11):
Well, and it all comes back
into, because we have a
tendency, it's like if someone'sreally struggling immediately
our The idea is oh, if you'restruggling? Well, let's, I'm
going to help you. Yes, yes. Youknow, like, that's just by
nature. Because I think at theend of the day, you know, we
(25:33):
care about each other, and wewant to support each other. And
it's like, okay, well, let metell you how you should live
your life.
Freida (25:41):
Right, right. And in
reality, they're having the
knowledge of resources, andbeing able to give them but
letting them go with whetherthey want to take advantage of
those resources or not, goesback to when to step in, and
when to step out. It's, it'svery helpful to someone if
(26:03):
they're struggling, and theydon't know where to go or what
to do, to be able to supply thatfor them, you know, and do your
homework and figure out what maywork and but then let them
choose what's best. Yeah,
Jen (26:15):
I am. This reminds me, so
next week, I'm getting ready to
go talk to some high school kidsabout you know, all of this. And
of course, by the very nature,it's all most of the time,
people want to lean very heavilyon that idea of prevention and
how bad drugs are, and thehorror stories and the fear and
(26:39):
all that stuff. They to keepthem away from all the bad
drugs. But of course, for me,it's like I had all of those
same talks. When I was in highschool, all those people came
in, and they tell all the horrorstories. And I'm like, yeah,
those never really helped. And Iwas thinking about this, it's
more of like, well, my approachand angle is talking about my
(27:00):
experience of my emotions ofwhat I was experiencing when I
was in high school. And thenalso, when they're ready, if
they do go down a particularroad, where can they go? What
are ways out there, and thatthere is there are things out
there, they don't have to livethe way that they're living,
they don't have to experiencethe feelings that they're
(27:21):
experiencing by themselves. Andthat there are resources out
there, what are the goodresources to turn to even even
if they're in ninth grade, or10th grade, and they're having
feelings of just not reallyknowing who they are, and
they're floundering? And wheredo they go? How, how do they ask
(27:44):
for what it is that they need?
Freida (27:47):
Exactly. And what you
are really doing is you are
offering hope, and that isreally, really vital in this
particularly and I can remembermiddle school as well as any
everyone you know, we where weare in high school and the
decisions that we're trying tomake. And it's a very confusing
time to so to have someone atleast hands you. These could be
(28:10):
the options for you. These couldbe the resources, these are
things that I believe givespeople hope that they can do
something a little bit differentthat maybe will be better for
them.
Jen (28:20):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And, you know, I really want tomake sure that we have enough
time, because I think part ofthis is I would love to hear who
were your son's?
Freida (28:39):
Oh, thank you for that
opportunity. I love it. Stephen
was my oldest son, Steven Hoyle.
And he was a single mom for manyyears. And so that made him in
his mind, the man of the family.
And I love this question. And wehad a lot of good times because
(29:01):
it was just the three of us. Andhe was very, very athletic. And
he loved basketball, and heloves soccer. And so Michael was
four years younger, and heidolized his brother. And it
really does paint the picture ofthe impact on Michael's life
when he lost his brother,because he did not get to see
(29:21):
his biological dad very often.
And he just it was the three ofus most of the time. And he
just, he just really looked upto him and he wanted to do all
of the things that Steven coulddo. And Steven was very
coordinated. And he was verywitty. He was he was very well
liked. And Michael just adoredthat and that as far as Michael
(29:43):
he was, he was a quieter childhe was he wasn't as active as
his brother. He he did havemany, many friends and he was
social. He He was just, he justcompared himself, he's just so
much more skilled than I am, hecan walk in a room and he
(30:05):
doesn't have any trouble talkingto anybody. And so they were,
they were very different. ButMichael, Michael just didn't
give himself enough credit inthat area, because he still has
friends to this day that checkon me, that talked to me. And
Steven does as well. But they,they knew, because they were
(30:26):
three years and nine monthsapart, they knew a whole lot of
the same people. And Michaels,and his main thing, he loves
staying home a lot of times onFriday nights and watching the
movie with me, he loved doingthat. We just had a lot of good
times together. So with thatbackground, neither one of them
(30:47):
had children are or got marriedin their lifetime. And so that,
that is something that as aparent, you know, I do regret
that for them that they didn'texperience and I'm a selfish way
that, you know, I didn't havethe the the ability to be able
(31:09):
to see them get married. So whenI go see a friend get married,
I'm always happy or a friendhave a child, I'm always happy.
But it's just that there is thatvoid in my life that I was
hoping that they would feel inbe there. So I missed them every
(31:30):
single day. I that I am soincredibly grateful for the 24
years that I had each of them,you know, they were born four
years apart, and they died fouryears apart. And now they are
very right beside each other inmy father's hometown in Oxford.
And I just, I just want to sayas far as the question, Who were
(31:57):
they, they they were the lightof my world. They really were
they. They they made me who I amtoday. And it's because of their
memory. Sorry. It's because oftheir memory that I'm doing now
hit North Carolina. And as Imentioned earlier in this
podcast, no hope came directlyfrom Stephen. And Michael's
(32:18):
favorite reading was just fortoday. So all of the time, I say
no hope just for the day andjust for the day is on Michaels
headstone. And I've also got nohope and just for the day on
bricks over at healingtransitions in their garden. And
(32:38):
I tell people their stories,because I want people to realize
that they were just, they werejust kids and they had not ever
really made their way to eventhe 25 year mark, when your
frontal lobes are completelydeveloped. I mean, I have to say
(33:01):
that, you know, they were still,they still had a long ways to go
in their growth. And we don'tknow they would both be in their
30s. Now, we don't know whatthey would be today. And that'll
be a regret. But I do believethat they live on through me.
And I do believe that they liveon through No Hope North
(33:23):
Carolina. And that brings me somuch peace and hope that their
lives are some how helping evenif it just one. They are helping
others by people hearing mystory. So thank you for the
opportunity to remember then.
Jen (33:40):
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I
think it something that you are
really acknowledging is both.
You know, who they were, andthen some of the regrets that
you have, and that part of thatgrieving that you're doing in
terms of, I didn't get to seethem get married. And that makes
(34:02):
me really sad. That's a problemthat will never have a solution.
Right? And yet, it's soimportant that we can still
acknowledge that you have thosekinds of regrets for yourself
for them. And how healing thatcan really be is to just say,
(34:23):
instead of just going oh, I'mnot going to talk about it,
because there's nothing I can doabout it anyway, of really
embracing that and saying, Yeah,that's something I really miss.
I really miss the opportunity tosee who they would have turned
out to be today. And right. Andyou really miss that. Yeah. And
(34:45):
I think those are all of thereally important things that we
need to talk about for ourselvesof this is this is what I
thought was going to happen inmy life. as it related to them,
and that's not what's happening.
Right. And that's sad.
Freida (35:06):
Because it doesn't meet
the expectation that you had
through their lifetime, youknow, as they're going to school
and learning and you're startingto think about what their
futures are going to look like.
But to flip it over to try toalways have a silver lining,
after I taught through that,because there are silver lines,
and I just want to point themout. To flip it over, I've been
(35:26):
members of so many groups now.
And like grass, brief recovery,after substance passing, I will
go to that. And I will meetsomebody that looks like the
deer in the headlights, becausethey have just lost their
person. And I'll sit down, andI'll just tell a really mini
version of what I just told you.
And people will look at me and Ihave heard this many times, and
(35:49):
you're still walking and you'velost two. And I and I'm I'm not
saying that for any reason otherthan I love to demonstrate that
life does, even though it'sdifferent, and it's never going
to be the same life does go on.
(36:09):
And our decision of what we'regoing to do with it is our own
and whether we do something goodwith it, or whether we don't,
it's completely up to us. Andthat it actually goes hand in
hand, in my opinion, withstruggling with with addiction
or substance use disorder, Ishould say. It goes hand in hand
(36:33):
in the sense that we're nevergoing to really be overweight,
we can be in recovery, but we'renever going to be cured. And as
I talk with people about that,and they see that I am still
here, and I've been in thisjourney for a decade, I have
been told that that gives themhope that they can make it and
(36:54):
so I try to share it anytime Ican for that purpose. And I do
believe that's the silver liningin the story is that we can do
something positive with anunspeakable loss.
Jen (37:07):
Yeah, absolutely. And I and
you're hitting such a good
point, which is, life goes on.
We don't move on, we movedifferently. And we move
Freida (37:18):
we can continue to move
through it. But we will never
move on. It's how I usually sayit. Because it's it's always
with us. You don't ever wake upone day and not think about it.
It's just not possible.
Jen (37:31):
And I think what's so great
is, you know, bringing in that
message of hope that it's likewe move differently. Because I
have seen families that getswallowed up by the grief. I've
seen my families, I've seenpeople get swallowed not even
the grief of losing. But I'veseen them get swallowed up in
(37:52):
the situation that they're in,where it's just so much darkness
to the point. You know, Iremember, I was talking to this
woman, and I was asking her justabout herself. And she was very
quickly to tell me all theproblems with her son in NITSA.
But what about you? She goes,what about me? And I said, Well,
(38:16):
what are you doing for yourself,she goes, Oh, I don't do
anything for myself, I literallysit on my couch all day long
waiting for the next day becauseI let go of all my friends, I've
let go of everything, everythingin my life and I just sit on my
couch and wait for for him toneed something for me to you
(38:36):
know, Sue, like she was veryhonest about that. And, you
know, to me, it's like, I lookat that as like your your life
is being swallowed up.
Freida (38:48):
And I think that's the
perfect way to put it. And I
have far too many stories ofmultiple household families that
have lost siblings and and evenafterwards their mother. And
because of being swallowed up inin grief. And it's it's so
(39:12):
heartbreaking to see thathappen, that I just want
everybody to be able to knowthat they're finding their
purpose or finding their theirway to at least have someone
understanding their pain is willbring them hope and will and
(39:33):
will develop into a purpose ifthey don't have a purpose that
they feel. Many people when theylose a child they'll say I just
don't feel like I have a purposeanymore. But there is always
purpose. There's something thatyou can do with that to help so
many. And I often compare it tothe 12 step of AAA or na where
(39:53):
it's, you know, to give back togive back to take that pain and
that struggle that you've beenthrough and give back and it's
been my experience of people inrecovery, that in the giving
back, they find so much joy. Andin the giving back, I do as
well.
Jen (40:10):
Well, and it's a big piece
because, you know, I'm in
recovery myself. And it's a bigpiece of the things that were
taught, which is to think aboutsomething outside of ourselves
to, of course, we have a sayingthat says, you can only keep
what you have by giving it away,you know, and it just, it just
(40:35):
basically means that what you'velearned and the wisdom that
you've gained, it's now time foryou, just like someone else
taught you how to do that, it'snow time for you to do the
teaching to other people, right.
And that's how we get it now, inthese 12 steps. And this is I
can't, I can't stress thisenough, in the 12 steps in any
(40:56):
sort of recovery thing. I alwayslook at recovery, or in your
situation. Everything is likekind of a piece of a pie, right?
And all the pieces to make awhole person to make someone
feel whole, they need all of thepieces of the pie, and recovery,
(41:16):
the 12 steps or whatever is onlyone piece of the pie to make a
whole person. And I say thatbecause it's like some people
really think that that's the endall be all of of it all. Who am
I? No, no, no, no. We need morein our lives. And just that
right now, just like you needmore than just what you're doing
(41:39):
to make a whole thing. This is apiece of your pie. And then it's
like, I guess the biggest thingthat I love to help people with
is gaining clarity on what areall of the pieces of the pie
that a person needs, to havethat purpose in their life, to
(41:59):
be strong to get what they needfor themselves to have those
moments where it's like, yes, wecan both be sad. And we can also
laugh, at the same time, to havea multitude of emotions, to
embrace the idea that we don'thave to not feel worthy enough
(42:20):
or not feel like we deservehappiness in our lives, no
matter what's happened, we canstill honor what has we have
experienced and the things thatwe've lost the things that we
expected that aren't coming trueand still have happiness?
Freida (42:44):
Absolutely, absolutely.
There's nothing that makes mefeel more happy than sitting in
a group and talking with peoplethat are in recovery. And all of
a sudden, we're just all hittingon the same. Same page, and
we're just really communicatingand there. And we're, I just
feel in the air that it's like atopical come up. You know, we
(43:09):
just don't quit, don't to donothing. And I'm like,
Absolutely, we got to find oursomething. And I can't say that
I just quit my job to dosomething. But I can say that I
can put down my degree and I canput down my pain for just a
second there. And I can find apurpose and an in even joy I can
(43:30):
seek for joy in my life, just bywatching other people who have
struggled do better. It justbrings me such such joy. So
again, silver lining, right,it's just those are the moments
and we
Jen (43:50):
need we need each other to
teach each other, how to honor
ourselves and how to be happy.
You know, left to my owndevices, I certainly wouldn't be
sitting here today. I've neededevery person in my life that has
shown me that I am worthy thathas reminded me that I am worthy
(44:13):
of happiness of having goals inmy life of teaching myself how
to get out of bed and like be afunctional member of society. It
wasn't by myself. And I thinkthat you know, when it comes to
people, whether it's their lovedones that are in the situation,
(44:35):
whether it's us like we all needeach other to share that wisdom
and to feel connected to eachother that says, Yes, I know
exactly where you're at. Andthese are some of the things
that I've done that have helpedme and don't forget that you're
worthy of feeling okay lately.
Freida (45:00):
One of my angel moms has
that on her plate on her car,
you are worthy. She lost herdaughter. And it's so true, you
are worthy. And you got this andyou can do it all. All it takes
is that your own internaldesire, and reaching out for the
(45:20):
resources and going for it. AndI just I love seeing people do
it. Just look at what you'redoing with this unbreakable
boundaries podcast, right? Andyou're giving this person here
me the opportunity to share? Andthat's that is as a mother's
greatest fear that are beforgotten, and that how can they
(45:42):
be forgotten when you're doing apodcast. So that's an awesome
opportunity, and I appreciate itso much.
Jen (45:48):
Absolutely. And that's what
I really wanted this space to be
is just a place for people toland to, okay, maybe, because
what I have found is that a lotof times parents that are going
through this are not quite readyto reach out to talk to anybody,
they're still kind of in hiding.
And it's like, well, I want tocreate a space that gives them
(46:10):
just a little bit of couragethat gives them the information
that makes them feel not soalone, that makes them feel like
they can let go of their shamefor a minute and says, go reach
out, you know, ask for you maynot even, it's not even asking
for help. But even asking, Sowhat do I need to do? Where do I
turn to get some of thesequestions that I have answered?
(46:32):
Does my loved one even reallyhave a problem? Are we in the
place where I can consider themhaving an addiction or substance
use disorder or however you wantto frame that? I don't even know
that? And it's like, okay, well,where did those people turn?
It's like, we're not at theresources of rehab or all that
(46:52):
yet, but so many questions, andfeeling so alone, I really
wanted to create a place thatcan have people feel not so
alone in their journey, whilealso getting resources,
connections, places that theycan go, it doesn't take much to
go to a Facebook group and joina group. You don't have to do
(47:14):
anything else.
Freida (47:17):
Right? It you can be
laying in your bed for Yeah,
yeah, well to get on Facebookand talk to somebody it's been
been through. So you can beanywhere. And it can be anytime,
day or night. And I do love thatabout it. And I think that, I
think that in the early days, itand and even now it continues to
(47:40):
have so much purpose to it forme to be able to connect to when
I need to, and connect on simplethings like the leaves falling
off the trees, you know,whatever it is, or the days
getting shorter, like Imentioned earlier, you know, the
holidays coming up, all of thosethings can can be triggers in a
lot of different ways. And soI'm so grateful for this
(48:04):
community of people that thatunderstand me, and that is
exactly what your podcast doesit. It gathers people together,
and gives them a place to talkand gives other people somewhere
to find out information and findout how other people are
managing. So what a gift.
Jen (48:22):
What a gift. Well, thank
you for that. And I want to ask
one last question before we wrapup is for my families that are
out there listening to this, andthey have their loved ones that
and they're in the heat of themoment, they are still going
through it. What would you tellthem?
Freida (48:42):
I would tell them to and
I know it's difficult and I know
you're weary. But keep onbelieving keep on encouraging
hope keep on looking intowhatever is in your community as
far as resources because theyare out there. And there are
people that can help you findthem. You know, you can even
(49:03):
reach out to know up NorthCarolina, we've got a website
www.no Hope North carolina.comand that will take you even to
the Facebook if you want tostart interacting I mean we can
help you there. I literally havea a file, but the main thing is
hang on to your hope. Because aslong as there's breath, there's
(49:26):
hope. And there there are manymany friends of mine and loved
ones of mine that are insustained recovery. That so it's
very possible and and it'sgetting better because we're not
sweeping it under the rug asmuch as we were before. Still
are to some degree. There'sstill some stigma, but it's
getting better because we'retalking.
Jen (49:47):
Absolutely and we're just
gonna keep talking, you know, my
the original name of thispodcast, which I later changed
after about 13 episodes was inthe stigma in The stigma and the
stigma. And that was theoriginal thing. Now it went down
an interesting road. And so Iwas like, I think I need to
reevaluate the name for thepodcast. But at the same time,
(50:11):
it is like we need to talk aboutit. Because we don't need to be
running around having all thesethis stigma stuff happening. So
well free to I just want tothank you so much for being
willing to come on, and shareyour story and share what you're
doing in in this community.
Freida (50:32):
It was really a pleasure
to be here. And I just
appreciate it. And if you we nowhave billboards, I just want to
throw that in there. So ifyou're riding down the road,
we're putting aid in Wilmington,November the ninth, if you're
riding down the road, and yousee no hope North Carolina, just
send some warm thoughts to allthose families represented
(50:53):
there.
Jen (50:53):
I meant to say something
about that earlier, while we
were talking about your signsthat you have is that you you
did actually turn them intobillboards around in North
Carolina and how have a anamazing thing that has been that
allows people to have justsomething so powerful up almost
(51:20):
in the sky, reminding peoplelike we're here, this is
happening, we are talking aboutit or encouraging people to
reach out and these are thefaces that we've lost what a
great remembrance of of thosepowerful billboards. I can't I
mean, the fact I hate to saythis in such a way, so I want to
(51:42):
honor both the the tragedy of itand going I can't wait to be
able to run into a billboard ofthis.
Freida (51:51):
Yes, there. There was.
On August 31, there was one inBoone. So that was it did get
out in the western part of thestate, which was the first time
it's mostly been Easton as justas far west as Greensboro. But
as as opportunities presentthemselves. I will I hope to
have one in the Asheville area.
Jen (52:12):
So man, yeah, and I just I
can't I just, I mean, it's not
like I can't wait, but it willbe exciting for me. When I'm
driving down the road one dayand look up in the sky and see
no hope North Carolina,
Freida (52:26):
you'll know the story.
And I know
Jen (52:27):
this so I'd be like, hey,
yes person I know. Yeah.
Freida (52:32):
Yeah. Thank you. Thank
you. Thank you really appreciate
what you do. It's such apleasure to meet you just for
today,
Jen (52:39):
just for today. And thank
you guys for listening to this
podcast. If you want to listento more find more information
out about this podcast and moreof what I do to help families.
You can go check out my page atunbreakable boundaries
podcast.com. It's full of othergreat podcasts just like this
one, and other great resourcesto look through. And please
(53:01):
remember to share this podcastwith others. You never know who
may need to hear this people areoften hiding their battles in
this arena and sharing is agreat way to provide this
valuable resource to a personyou may not even know who needs
it. And don't forget, there isalways hope even when things
seem the most hopeless