December 2, 2022 • 57 mins
Michel has lived through absolute hell and can smile on the other side of the abyss.
Her life's work is to facilitate healing and to guide people back to the knowingness of their own inner strength and to not just survive, but to live their lives fully.
Outline:
- What does it mean to live in absolute hell?
- At the time that you are experiencing this, what were some of the beliefs that you had about your life and why?
- The day she met her son’s father.
- Looking at the problem from different angles and different ways.
- What were some of the layers that came up when she was looking at it from different angles?
- What is body talk? What does it mean?
- What is EMDR? How does it work?
- Six sessions is a good time to feel like you’re getting a sense of who you are working with.
Website: https://www.bodytalkwithmichel.com/
Email: Michel@bodytalkwithmichel.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jen (00:00):
Welcome back to the unbreakable boundaries podcast
with your host, myself, JenniferManeely. I'm really excited
about this upcoming guests, Imet her, we were doing a red
ribbon, Red Ribbon Week, Saythat five times fast. At a local
school, which was a really coolexperience at a local school
(00:20):
actually had me and this personcome in and share our stories,
which is kind of a little of ananomaly. Just because it's like
a lot of schools, they don'treally want people coming in and
talking about drugs. But there'ssuch a, like an epidemic of
(00:41):
this, you know, addiction andsubstance abuse, and it's kids
are getting younger and younger.
So I think the school systemsare starting to recognize that
they got to do something. And sowe were two guests, which I
don't know, if you've everwalked into a high school, we
were just talking to the highschoolers. And as an adult, to
share your story. It's slightlyintimidating, but we did it. And
(01:06):
it was an awesome experience,she had such a great story. And
we could just got to talk and Iwas like, Man, you really gotta
come on my, my podcast, becauseI feel like she has so much to
give and so much to share to youguys that I think can really,
really help. So that's theconversation that we're gonna
have today. And I just want tokind of read you a little bit
(01:27):
her name, I just want to goahead and say this before I
forget, her name is Michellehare. And she does some amazing
work in in the space, eventhough it's not directly tied
into substance abuse, it can butthere's so much more going on
with people than just substanceabuse. And she helps in that
(01:47):
space. So I'm just going to reada little bit about the profile
that she sent me. And it says, Ihave lived through absolute hell
and can smile on the other sideof the Abyss, my life's work is
to facilitate healing and toguide people back to the
knowingness of their own innerstrength, and to not just
(02:11):
survive, but to live their livesfully. And this is something
that I know a lot of my audiencemembers really struggle with is
not to just feel like they aresurviving through their loved
one substance abuse issues. Imean, I can't tell you how many
(02:32):
times I've gotten on withparents who literally just sit
at home all the time, they'veput their life on pause. They
don't know what else to do. Andthey're just surviving through
life. I'm like, are we justsitting around waiting to die?
Or what? What are you going todo? They may never change? Is
this what you want your life tolook like? And so I love when I
(02:53):
read this is not just tosurvive, but to live their lives
fully. So Michelle, thank you somuch for being willing to be on
this podcast.
Michel (03:05):
Thank you for having me.
Yeah. And
Jen (03:09):
so you have said in your first line, I have lived through
absolute hell and can smile onthe other side of the abyss. So
when you say absolute hell, whatdoes that mean? What did that
hell look like?
Michel (03:29):
Growing up, it's like I learned all the things that you
know, the the situation shouldbe like, with a mom and a
daughter, or even a familydynamics. You know, my mom was
more like, competitive and withme and use me more like a crutch
because her husband wasphysically and sexually and
(03:54):
psychologically abusing me. Andthat was something that was like
a everyday occurrence in mylife. So with that just being
said, so I was like, I don'tknow, just pretty twisted up,
you know, for a really longtime. And I ended up finally,
like running away when I was 17.
Because I just, I couldn't do itanymore. I stayed for a really
(04:17):
long time because I was theoldest of six and the other five
are kind of like, I don't know,kind of like my babies. So I
just but I just I had to go andit almost seemed like things got
worse when I left if you know ifyou can even imagine.
Jen (04:34):
Sure I well, I can't imagine that because it's like
one I have to imagine this.
These are some assumptions soyou can fill in the gaps of your
own experience but you left at17 with very little actual
healthy life skills involved.
Michel (04:53):
Or any smarts you know, any common sense or anything.
Jen (04:57):
Well, because well your whole life you know Were were
the product a little bit of ourenvironment, right? And so it
doesn't sound and I can I'mmaking an assumption, but it
doesn't sound like you werebeing taught any sort of way of
actually, what does it mean tolive in this world? There are no
(05:18):
life skills being brought to thetable, you didn't have a normal
upbringing, even when you likewent to high school and stuff.
Because it's not like you'regoing home and like, your focus
is on homework or something.
It's, it's a little bit moretoxic than that, right? So now
you leave out of the home, andnow you're in the big bad world
with no life skills, no means tosupport yourself. And no,
(05:39):
nothing. I can only imagine thatthings would could only from
that standpoint, get worse.
Yeah, but they didn't stayworse. So that's the good thing.
I mean, you're here today.
Talking to me means that thejourney that was just the
beginning of the journey, andthe journey didn't end there.
(06:00):
And eventually, you know, you,you did do something different.
But when you left, when you lefthome at 17, and you say things
seem to have gotten worse, whatdid that look like for you?
Michel (06:17):
Well, it's like when you're when you're living in a
situation for a really longtime. Even if it's like hell,
it's like you don't reallyrealize exactly what it is that
you are living in, and, youknow, in relation in for so many
years, until you're on theoutside, and all of a sudden
you're like on the outsidelooking in. And it all seemed to
(06:39):
kind of explode, like in myface. And because, you know, at
17, you're like, you're runaway.
So I had to go from place toplace at that time. And going
through school, I was alwayslike, dumped because I wasn't
the one that was the sexy one. Iwasn't giving it up or anything.
And so when I went to one of thehouses, that's where I was raped
(07:01):
because I didn't do drugs oranything until I was in, you
know, 17. And I tried weed. Andso I was raised. And you know,
it just kind of progressed fromthere with foster care. And
eventually, I went to live withmy dad and Mississippi. And
yeah, that took on its own.
Jen (07:29):
Right, fair. So things got really not great for you. And so
what what would you say in thattime period, when things weren't
really great? What was kind oflike your bottom, what was the
worst
Michel (07:47):
parts of that? Leave the worst parts were. Later when I
was married to a sociopath, andthat was, I had my first child,
and he had abused me pretty bad.
And he would like, yeah, he hada drug problem. And I remember I
(08:08):
had double hernia surgery, andlike, three days later, he was
like, beat me up and dragging meacross the trailer ground floor.
And other times you would liketake my kid and threatened to
keep them from me. And I reallytwisted my brain and from there
to, like, escape that horrorthat I was kind of felt like,
(08:31):
trapped in. I went in the Army.
And yeah, so I went in the Army,and the army was great on one
hand, but it's like, if you'vehad like a lot of abuse and
trauma, it's still really hardto have like drill sergeants
(08:52):
and, and also like, people thatare in charge, you know, think
in your heart or something likethat. It's a lot of pressure,
you know, when you're justtrying to, like, make a better
life for you and your child. Sowhen I got out of the military,
I mean, not out of the military,but out of basic training and,
and eventually schooling and gotto my first duty station, I was
(09:15):
a single mom with my my son. Andit just at that point, that's
when it just started, like,everything started to crack, you
know, and within me, yeah,started to lose
Jen (09:28):
it. So, and this is something a lot of the families
that I work with, you know, theydidn't have a lot of them didn't
have this kind of upbringing orthis this background, right.
Like, it wasn't, it didn't looklike this, and they're like,
that all sounds, you know,really traumatic, but how does
(09:52):
this relate to me? And then theyalso question
like, what their loved oneexperience CES and the horrible
things that either they do orthey're experiencing, they're
like, well, we didn't, you know,raise you to be like this or
behave like this. And yetthey're doing a lot of the same
(10:12):
things that it sounds like thatyou have experienced. So my
question is, at the time thatyou are experiencing this, if
you can remember, and you maynot be able to, what were some
of the, like, beliefs that youhad about, like, your life? And
(10:33):
why? Because this is thequestion that I get all the
time. Why didn't you just leave?
Or why didn't you just stop? Orwhy don't you just not do those
things? And I think it's verycomplicated, right? I think
that's a very complicatedanswer. It's not just, why don't
you just not do those things. Solike, some of the things that
(10:53):
were was happening internallywith you at that time.
Michel (10:59):
Ya know, it's really easy, you know, when you're a
person who's like, not, youknow, within that experience, to
be able to say, you can do thisand this because there's not the
underlying belief systems, orthe feelings and the things that
are being shouted at you fromwithin. And so, I grew up being
(11:21):
told that I was never going tobe anything that I was nothing
that I was basically shipped.
And I felt I was very unlovable.
And growing up being molested, Ialso had a fear that I was going
to become what I had experience.
So that was a really big fearwhen I had my little boy, even
(11:42):
though that that wasn't evenpossible, but to my very young,
teenage mind. Yeah, so I didn'tthink that I had anywhere else
to go. I didn't know what elseto do. And so I had to
eventually find enough courageto say I can join the military.
And I can try this out. And sothat was a huge leap in itself.
(12:06):
But if you're like asking alsoabout, like, when I'm a kid,
that was that was interesting.
It's like, I did reach out topeople, it's just, my mother had
a way of manipulating me intoyou're going to put us on the
(12:27):
streets, you know, where you'regonna go to a place worse than
you've ever, you know,experienced and that sort of
thing. And so I didn't want tohurt my family, you know, right.
Jen (12:44):
Yeah. And I think you're hitting on something really
important, because it's like, alot of times, what, like, the
families and the things thatwe're looking at, is what's
right in front of us. Right. Andwe don't always get to know, all
of the underlying stuff that'shappening behind the scenes, all
(13:07):
of the pirates that have beencreated the belief systems, and
it's all that internal noise,right? So it's like, yeah, just
because someone screamssomething at you, even though
it's like from your parents, noteveryone always takes that in,
in the same way that it butsometimes, like, exactly, it's
(13:28):
it, we don't always take that inthe same way. But for some of
us, we do start creating thesebelief systems around what we're
hearing all the time andbelieving this is as good as
it's ever going to be. This isyour life. This wasn't like, you
know, you were just doing whatyou knew how to do with the time
(13:54):
that you knew how to do it, anduse true believe anything else
outside of, well, this must bewhat I either deserve, or what I
get. Yeah. You know, and I thinka lot of times when I'm talking
to families, I have to remindthem as like, there's so much
stuff that's going oninternally, that you don't get
(14:14):
to know about, they may verywell have a belief that this is
what they deserve. Because maybeit came and I don't know, but
maybe it came from they didsomething and they feel so bad
about the thing that they didthat they believe that they
deserve to be punished for therest of their life. And we'll
never get any better than this.
And when you're in that space,when you're in those moments, it
(14:35):
can be really, really hard forus to believe anything else
because it's not like we havethe skills or the people around
us. That is supporting healthyhabits because the people around
us are toxic. Yes. And they arecontinuing to perpetuate those
belief systems in us becausethat's who we gravitate too.
(14:58):
That's true, you know? And so itsounds like, there was a lot
going on at that time periodthat it wasn't just like, Oh,
I'm just gonna not live this wayanymore. Like, what does that
even look like?
Michel (15:15):
Yeah, that wasn't even an option.
Jen (15:17):
Right? It wasn't it didn't feel like an option at the time.
And I think when you live inthat kind of relationship and
abuse, I think the concern alsois, is, well, I can't leave.
Because this is a dangerousperson. You know, so I don't
know if that was something thatyou you feared for? If what
(15:40):
would happen if you tried toleave?
Michel (15:42):
Yeah, I had five younger brothers and sisters, it was, I
felt like they would be like,four of them would be fine,
because they were my stepdadsbiological children. But I had
another sister, who was fouryears younger than me. And I
just felt like her and my momwould get, you know, the brunt
of whatever it was that Ireceived, you know, when I left,
(16:03):
which is exactly what happened.
But I just wanted to do what Icould, you know, at a young age
like that, yeah. Which wasn'tmuch, but you know,
Jen (16:16):
so, um, obviously, we didn't stay there, because
that's not what your life lookslike, anymore. Right. What do
you think? Where do you thinkwas the turning point for you?
Michel (16:30):
A turning point? Well, I think it was when I think I had
the most absolutely horrible,horrible thing you could ever
have, as a parent happened tome. And it was. So the son that
I was talking about, I ended upI ended up losing him when I had
(16:51):
like, a nice little dance withmeth for about five years. And
the thing is, is that you know,that his grandparents who were
staying with, which is my exhusband, they kept him for me.
And, but I did get to meet him.
And so obviously, there's like,a lot to that, but I got to meet
him. And he, he was so sick, hewas so delusional, and the
(17:18):
things that he was telling meabout, like, and I was just
sitting there, just witnessingthis. And there. It was, it was
God awful, you know, cuz it'slike you, you see your kid and
he's like, grown. And he's sotall. And I mean, last time I
saw him is three. And he's gotthese big feet, and he's just
beautiful. And, and then he's sosick. You know, we had
(17:41):
schizophrenia. And you wanted tocome and live with me. And I had
three girls at the house at thetime. One of them is my
stepdaughter, because I wasnewly remarried. And God, I
couldn't do it. That was like,the only thing I ever wanted was
(18:01):
to have Skyler back and to behis mom, and to raise him and
stuff. And it's like, at thatmoment, like, I always wanted
him to ask me, Hey, can I comelive with you? And now that
like, we arrived at this place?
I had to I had to fucking tellhim. No. Yeah. And that was,
that was the hardest thing. Andhe's like, later on, you know,
(18:24):
he's like, Well, if you don'tlet me come live with you, so
I'm going to kill myself. And Istill couldn't do it. Because I
knew that if he came that hewould, he would be really toxic
for the girls. And I justcouldn't do that. And I thought
maybe he was just making it up,you know, just manipulating me.
And then, so from the day that Imet him six months later, he
(18:49):
killed himself. And that was,that's where I honestly would
have to say that I was at mysecond lowest. And yeah, I
would, I would get in the car. Iwould like try to put on that.
That happy, you know, as happyas you can, but have it together
to get the kids to school. Andafter I drop off the, the one in
(19:13):
preschool, I would just drivearound. I didn't know where I
was going. I was like, I waslost. I was I was in a pretty
dark pit of despair, to betheatrical.
Jen (19:27):
Well, and that's fair. This is like I think this is every
parent's worst nightmare. I knowa lot of the families that I
talk with, they have these kidsup there, and they do actually
use this as a manipulation toolbecause they know that they can
get what they want. If they justthreatened suicide and sometimes
(19:50):
they may meet it at the time,even though they might not
actually, you know, go throughwith it or anything like that.
They may feel the hopelessdespair. And, you know, I, where
I go with families is not in amean way. But it's like how do
(20:13):
we not let that impact thethings that we know, are the
right things to do right now.
And so here's, here's a reallyhard question. I'm going to ask
it. And we can just have thatconversation. be uncomfortable,
right? Yeah. But like, it makesme even uncomfortable thinking
(20:33):
about asking it. But I reallythink it's an important
question. Yeah. What did you doanything different?
No. No? And I think that is,that answer is the most
(20:58):
important answer that we canhave when we do have someone.
And we're confronted withsomething like this is being
really grounded and owning theanswer and why we're doing it.
Despite the outcome. We don'tget to control the outcome.
(21:19):
Yeah, we don't, you know,whether it could have been so
much, we don't know, what wouldhave ever happened. We can't
know. What would have happened.
If you said yes. It could be awhole lot worse. Yeah. You know,
there could have been things.
You did it for the rightreasons. And you made your
(21:40):
decision for the safety of yourhouse and for him, and he did
not. Again, you know, thissounds uncomfortable. And I
don't mean it to sound callous,but he didn't have to do what he
did. He made a decision.
Michel (21:55):
That's true.
Jen (21:57):
And that was not our decision. It was not your
decision to own right, he couldhave still have ended up that
way. Whether you know, and thennow you have your girls also
involved in that. So it's socomplicated. And I want to honor
(22:20):
one you, and the pain that youmust be experiencing, having to
go through something like that,and to face every parent's worst
nightmare nightmare out there.
While also going i i don't, thatwas the best decision that I
(22:40):
made. And I wouldn't change it.
And how do we stay grounded inourselves when something like
that happens with no regrets? Wemay grief? We're going to, you
know, feel as low as we canpossibly feel. But then how do
(23:04):
we still carry on? In in griefwithout blaming ourselves. And I
think that's a powerfulstatement. You just made one
that I'm so grateful that yousaid no, I wouldn't do anything
different. It couldn't. Youknow, so kudos to you for that.
(23:24):
Thank you. Probably the mostpowerful No, I've ever heard on
this pot podcast, to be
Michel (23:30):
honest. No, I had to I had to look at it, you know,
over and over, like fromdifferent angles, different
layers and not hide from it. SoI addressed all those different
things that same question youasked me like I addressed it
from different angles and lookedat it in different ways, worded
(23:51):
it in different ways, you know,just really making sure that I
can get in there. And I guessyou could say clean out the
pipes, you know, that there'snothing like left over, that can
sit there and trigger and run mylife. So. So
Jen (24:09):
here's, I have to imagine and you can correct me if I'm
wrong when he first askedyou if he could come live with
you. Yeah, I can't imagine thatyour first response was No. Like
it was it didn't I mean, notresponse, but your immediate
reaction was no, it sounds likesomething that may have been
(24:32):
thought about. Am I correct inthat? No.
Michel (24:39):
So yeah, you already
Jen (24:42):
knew the answer as soon as I
Michel (24:44):
did, and I hated the answer.
Jen (24:47):
Right. And had you had you already thought through your
answer before you ask beforebefore Right. Yeah, before he
asked you had you saw throughof, if he does ask, How am I
(25:08):
going to respond? Had youalready gone there with
yourself?
Michel (25:12):
Well, my husband is very beautiful human being we were
looking at, he says, Okay, maybewe could do this, you know, we
can make a room this way, youknow, just just trying to make
the decision to where I couldmake a decision freely with, you
know, with a little bit moreclear view of it. And so I
(25:36):
appreciated that from him, andthat he was even willing to even
you know, be open to that, youknow, is pretty profound, but
even looking at it, and seeingthat, okay, he could stay here,
we could do this, and you couldget him on psych meds, and then
you know, and then you go, andyou look at reality. I have not
(26:00):
raised him, and I need to behonest with you, you know, just
a side note, you know, I wasable to get him, you know, to
stay on schizophrenia medicinefor one month. But there was no,
he's in Mississippi. So thevoices are like, they're trying
to change me, and it's justlike, oh, boy, so, but I knew
(26:21):
the reality of AI, most likely,he's gonna be 18 years old. And
you know, 18 year old is goingto be like, you know, fu you
know, I do I do my own thing.
You know what I mean? Yeah, youknow, I just, I could see those
scenarios coming. And then Ialso saw the children. And, you
know, am she? How old was she,she's about 14. And she's pretty
(26:44):
girl, you know, and Skylar issexually active. And I was just
like, I don't like that, youknow, and the kids I want it I
want them to be you know, isbest in an environment that's
uplifting and his energy and hisyou know, and that would be the
older brothers, they would wantto be like him, and lets, you
(27:06):
know, oh, we finally get to meetyou, you know, that sort of
thing and would glorify whateverit was that he was carrying, you
know, into our space. And I waslike, Yeah, I wish it could be
like that little fairy tale of,oh, everything's great. But
yeah.
Jen (27:28):
So it sounds like there was a lot of thought that went into
no and recommitting to the No.
And go, it's really can'thappen. Like, it's not good. And
then when you so when you havean opportunity to look back and
go, would I have done anythingdifferent? The answer can still
(27:50):
be No, but I'm really fuckingsad. Yeah, that this is the way
that it went. Yeah, absolutely.
But I have no regrets in thedecision that I made. No, I
don't. And that's powerful. AndI think when I when I look at,
(28:10):
and I call, you know, thispodcasts and the conversations
that we have the unbreakableboundaries. That's the testament
to what I'm speaking about.
Okay. When you look at creatingsomething like that, the
unbreakable boundaries, it'ssomething that you are very
clear. In your Yes. And you'revery clear in your know, and
(28:32):
you're very clear as to why. Sothat no matter what happens, we
have no regrets. And we don'tbend. Because we've been
thoughtful. We've beenproactive, we've been clear, we
know exactly why we're makingthe decisions that we're making.
(28:53):
And we don't regret thosedecisions. And we don't bend on
those decisions. It doesn't meanthat it's coming from, you know,
not a loving place came from avery loving place, both for him,
and for your other kids that youhave in the house, your husband
yourself. This was the bestthing. And again, he didn't have
(29:16):
to do what he did. And it's notreally sad that he felt that
hopeless, that that's Yeah.
Yeah.
Michel (29:29):
And now you said you didn't
Jen (29:35):
raise him, necessarily, but you're married. You have three
kids. He's reintroduced backinto your life. That was a very
low point. When that happened,you said that there was a lot of
layers and you looked at it froma lot of different angles. Could
(29:57):
you share just some have like,you don't have to go into all of
it. But just some of the majorpoints about what were all of
the things you're consideringand the different layers that
you were looking at. And thequestions maybe that you had for
yourself. The thoughts that werecoming up the beliefs that were
(30:17):
underlying, in that, what weresome of those things that came
up?
Michel (30:23):
That was a failure. I failed at everything I did, and
everything I touched, burnt to acrisp. So those were some of the
belief systems. You know, if, ifonly I would have not chose
drugs over my son, then maybethis wouldn't have happened. You
(30:46):
know, if I could have raisedhim, maybe he wouldn't have been
with such psychologicallyabusive people, you know,
growing up, maybe things wouldhave been better. I also had to
look at the shame. The shame ofnot being able to provide my kid
(31:13):
with a good upbringing, theshame of like, that was my that
was like one of my biggestgoals. Like when I was getting
clean from drugs, I was like,I'm going to, I'm going to be
his mother. And I'm going to doa great job. And that was like,
that was my life goal rightthere. I was like, I'm gonna get
(31:35):
them back, and I'm gonna be agreat mom. And then it didn't
get to happen. And so it waslike, when he came back in my
life, I was like, Oh, I get thatchance. And it's like so it was
just like, the shame of notreally feeling like I had
anything to offer when he cameback into my life, which isn't
(31:56):
true, because I did have lots tooffer. It's just if you don't
get that result of theexpectations that you hold, then
you feel like it's all afailure, and that everything's
run dry. So expectations are whywe suffer. So yeah. What else?
(32:17):
Um the guilt of having to tellhim no guilt of him feeling like
he had no other option Yeah, isthat good?
Jen (32:35):
Oh, yeah. That was great.
No, that was really that wasreally, that was really
powerful. And I think a lot oftimes a lot of the families that
I you know, talk to and I workwith, even if it's not the exact
same questions in the waybecause they their experiences
(32:56):
are different, right? So youknow, put their situation but on
the same core things of whatyou're speaking to the guilt,
the shame, the failure newness,what did I do wrong? Where did I
you know, all that stuff is allof the same that every every
family every parent that Italked to all these things, it's
(33:19):
it comes up, right? Where did Igo wrong? If I could have done
this different I still have toevery now and then my mom has
gotten so much better becausewe've done a lot of healing
together every now and then shewill still say something that
she takes far too ownership toomuch ownership over my journey.
(33:42):
And I know mother this was thatwas not yours to own. You know
that was mind to own you'retaking too much responsibility
for something that's not yours.
Now I'm not saying that we don'thave our things so like, guilt,
shame. And it sounds likebecause I kind of know a little
(34:06):
bit more of like where you gonow. It sounds like as much
guilt shame the universal voicesthe fears, the self doubts, the
beliefs you had those all of thesame things but you didn't stay
and live with those on apermanent basis. You looked at
(34:29):
that and said have these thingswe're gonna have to go to some
places inside to not continue tocarry on and live in this kind
of thing. So what I needed helpwhat did that look like for you?
Michel (34:50):
So I felt like I was like on this like really dark
downward spiral, you know, afterjust being with that news, and
just the finality of it. Youknow, and so I broke down and
was like, I'm gonna go get sometherapy at the VA, you know, I
(35:10):
knew that other things wereavailable, but I wanted to use
like my free stuff first, youknow, it was just human stuff?
Well, yeah. Try that out. Andyou know, I had I had therapists
that would tell me that theywere looking over the notes. And
before they would see me, theywere getting really, like
(35:31):
nervous and depressed and stufflike that. And I was like, it
wasn't like a place, I'm surethey can help other people. It's
just, they couldn't hold thatspace for me. And so we have a
friend me, my husband have afriend who is BodyTalk
practitioner. And so I decidedto start on that journey, which
(35:53):
is consciousness basedhealthcare. And so it was like,
after being like, in this like,really dark tunnel just to give
visual to it. When I starteddoing Body Talk, it was like
someone just like, open thiswindow. And there was like light
coming in. And someone justgrabbed your hand and says,
Here, you know, yeah. And itwas, it was miraculous. And so
Jen (36:18):
can you kind of dive a little bit into when you say
body talk? What, what does thatlook like? What does that mean?
What do you do? Okay,
Michel (36:28):
so what do you know, right? So if anyone's ever heard
about, like, Reiki or whatever,that's like energy medicine. So
my, my husband refers to it,it's like, it's like Reiki on
steroids. So basically, if aperson comes in, whatever is
your priority, will come up inconsciousness as a formula. And
(36:50):
it's like a mathematicalformula. And your formula could
have like, an active memory of,you know, something that
happened at childhood. And youcan also have emotions that need
to be like released from certainplaces, and all these things
like will, or if you have adifferent, like a hip, this hip,
(37:10):
it needs to be in alignment withthis other hip a little bit
more, you know, oh, you know, mySP is kind of stuck. And a lot
of times when people go throughfear or startle, even at a young
age, your SP will be stuck. Andthat'll, like, help you to stay
like switched, where yourthinking is cloudy and, and
(37:31):
your, your, what you call yourpituitary gland isn't working,
so you're not getting all thosehormonal releases. So anyway,
this is like all coming in anditems like in a formula. And so
they have to figure themselvesout in order to get the results.
And so does that answer yourquestion? Yes.
Jen (37:51):
So so I just kind of like I'm going to, I'm going to do my
best to try to, to put this inwords, okay, of what I think of
how I understand it. Soit sounds like
for people who aren't like veryfamiliar with this, right? When
(38:11):
we get really tense, we canhonor that. If someone puts
their hands on our back. And wehave really tight muscles. We're
like, oh, yeah, I've been reallytense, like I've been really
stressed out. So we can, we canadmit to ourselves that our body
is holding on to tension interms of creating stiff muscles
(38:35):
in our back, what I hear yousaying is, instead of just
exploring, just the tenseness ofthe muscles in the back, we're
actually going to go a littlebit deeper, because we have
other places in our body thatare holding on to tensions that
we may not be aware of at thispresent moment. And we're going
(38:56):
to start exploring, so maybe,you know you have tension in
your hip. Right? And if we canexplore that, if you're having
pain in your hip, what's thetension? How is your body
holding on to the tension? Whatis it holding on to? And maybe
we can and why? And why? Right?
So it may be something that youknow, something happened. And
(39:17):
this goes a little far back. Butit's like something that maybe
happened that when you were akid and you've been holding on
to it in your legs. I'm justmaking this as an example. Yeah,
you're holding on to it in yourlegs since you were a kid and
you weren't even really awarethat it was there, but you have
bad knees. Right? And so now wecan explore maybe the tension
(39:40):
around your knees and how thatstress is impacting you why and
maybe we can relieve some ofthat stress. Is that is that
kind of what you're saying?
Michel (39:55):
Yeah, that's I think that's a very simple Yeah. You
can you could come in and youcan say, okay, because I'll have
people fill out like a littlesmall intake form, and they'll
put their stuff on there andthey'll come okay. And so I'd be
like, Well, what's yourintention for this session and
people will be like, okay, so Ihave, you know, let's say I have
(40:20):
a client who had issues withtheir spine, she got in a car
accident, and her spine wasinjured, she had rods in her
spine and stuff. And so once welike went into once we went into
what happened prior to that,when she was, you know, let's
(40:41):
say 17. And she got some GHD inher drink, and, you know, that
sort of thing. So anyway, whenthat when that active memory was
resolved, which is done, more orless like EMDR, but I call it
like, EMDR, with steroids, like,you really get in there with the
memory, and you take away thecharge, because that's what
(41:02):
we're suffering from. It's notjust the memory, but the
emotional charge that's aroundit. But anyway, when she when
that was resolved, she all, shecould stand up straight again.
Jen (41:14):
Wow. So there's a lot of times in, you know, there's just
another layer to it. But a lotof times, there is like a
physical trauma that happenswith people. So like you just
said, a car wreck, right. Andthen, you know, years later,
they're still having a lot ofpain. And I'm just again, this
(41:37):
is just my simplified version ofhow I'm understanding it. But
because I know this is a lotmore complex, but you know, they
may be having also physicaltrauma around their injuries
that you can help maybe relievesome of that trauma that they're
experiencing. From, like the carwreck and the memories, holding
(42:01):
on to the trauma of it, to helpkind of support them in healing
mentally from it. Is that,
Michel (42:13):
yes, I mean, I from my, from my experience, like, let's
just say, first time I wasmolested was when I was eight,
and that was like a reallytraumatic thing. I can talk
about it, like, Oh, my socks aremaroon right now. Because you
really get in there, and you letgo of all of the pain, all the
(42:34):
guilt, the shame and all thosethings. It's almost like a deep
cleaning. Yeah, and so it'slike, with, you know, this one's
a very smart one, because it's amodality because it goes off of
what someone's ready to look at.
So we'll do like basic, likeanalysis and stuff just to kind
of work you up. And you know,and then when you're ready to go
into a little bit deeper things,then you know, your
(42:58):
subconscious, let's, let's itlets us know,
Jen (43:04):
right? So, um, so this is something that you started doing
for yourself when you couldn'tget help, right? From like, the
services at the VA, and you'regoing in, and you're talking to,
I'm assuming, and you cancorrect me if I'm wrong, but it
was like, you know, your basiccounselor or therapist, and, you
(43:27):
know, you go in and you starttalking, but you're not really
getting anywhere, you're like, Ineed to get somewhere else, like
I need to be in a differentplace. And I don't know how to
get there, you know, so I don'tknow how to get there by myself.
Yeah. If I knew how to get thereby myself, I'd be there.
Michel (43:47):
Right.
Jen (43:51):
So now I need, like, this is not helping, like I think I
think, you know, sometimesthat's a very helpful thing,
depending on what a personneeds. And I think that
sometimes, we need to trydifferent things. And so you
tried this thing for your statusBody Talk, and you're like,
look, I don't know what this iswhat this looks like, but it
(44:13):
seems like maybe it could helpwe're gonna give it a shot. And
now, when you first went intoit, though, were you like,
completely open to the idea ofit? Or was there like some
resistances that you may havehad initially?
Michel (44:33):
know me, I'm like, you know, I understand where
resistance is come from, becauseit's really not your, you know,
run of the mill, you know, waysof therapy. But no, I was wide
open. I was just like, at thatpoint of, I'll do anything.
Jen (44:51):
Right, you know? Yeah.
Because you're like, I justdon't want to feel like this
anymore. And I'm willing to justdo it. anything I want in my
life? Right? Yeah. And at anypoint?
Did was there any sort of likequestions like, what were some
(45:17):
of the questions that you hadabout this type of modality? In
the beginning,
Michel (45:23):
I had a lot of questions, because I was very
intrigued, because, you know,we, you know, especially like
with the ancestral clearing, andjust just so many things,
epigenetic part of it, and I wasjust like, what's that? What's
that, you know, you know, I wasso keen about how, you know,
belief systems begin and howthey start from one energetic
(45:48):
level and make themselves doubt,you know, their way down to the
physical because it all startsright here. And that is what all
of a sudden, turns into somesort of physical manifestation.
So I just, I loved it, I sawwhat it did for me. And I always
wanted to be a therapist since Iwas in eighth grade. And I
(46:10):
wanted to, I wanted to help easethe suffering of people, you
know, and then I said, this is,this is my thing, and I just hit
the ground running.
Jen (46:22):
And so now you do this for a living, because you were like
to like this, this helped me somuch I want to take take it and
expand it in and do it for otherpeople as well. And so your your
clients see a lot of benefitsfrom this. Does it work for
everybody?
Michel (46:45):
Um, so that's an interesting question. Depends on
how I believe Okay, so if peoplekeep doing it, yes, I do believe
it does. Because there are,there's certain people that are
really like, even thoughthey're, they've tried
(47:06):
everything, and they come to me,they're still like this, if you
could imagine, like, one ofthose, like metal vault doors,
you know, to the bank, as Iclosed getting into shit, you
know, and it's like, I haveclients like that. But it's
like, if, when I get out of theway, and not need them to heal,
(47:27):
and I take, you know, we takeour time, and just, you know,
just go at it as they work,because I can find backdoors.
You know, that's, that's one ofthe beautiful things that, that
I'm given as well, if I willfind a backdoor and we still see
relief, you know, I had a clientwho came who had like Lyme
disease, and we just did little,just little balances you
(47:50):
wouldn't think was nothing, youknow, we didn't really go deep
in it, you know, first and herLyme disease was gone after two
sessions, you know, and I wasjust like, wow, you know, so
yeah, I would say yes, ifpeople, I always tell people to
give me at least six sessions,and and if you haven't seen any
results, then then you know, wecan shake hands and go our
(48:13):
separate ways.
Jen (48:14):
Yeah. And I think that's fair, because I think, you know,
six sessions is a good time tofeel like you you're you get it,
you get a kind of a sense ofthis person that you're working
with, right? So like, yeah, theyget a sense of you, they get a
sense of, of what the work lookslike. Because I think, like,
(48:36):
because you had mentioned thisearlier in the podcast,
expectations. You're on. So it'slike people, even if they don't
know what to expect. We're humanbeings. And we still come in
with expectations, right? And sotimes, like, we may not have a
(48:57):
bigger picture, or we may notknow, and we won't get a real
handle on what the work lookslike, for about six sessions.
Right? And it's like, that givesyou a chance to really know what
to expect, who I am, how I work.
And then, you know, kind ofwhere the conversations go, and
(49:18):
how to even have theconversations. Because I think
for people that aren't familiar,because I'm in like the coaching
space, right? Right. Everybodyknows what the heck that means.
And they have no they're like, Idon't even know what I'm doing
here. It takes about that manysessions, just to know how to
(49:40):
come into the sessions with anopen mind with no expectations
and to be clear about what dothey want to achieve also,
right, open?
Michel (49:55):
Yes, yeah. And develop that relationship because Um,
I've heard that like, you know,the relationship between client
and practitioner, coach,whatever it is, is like 80% of
that healing. So it's like whenyou are in that space of someone
that, you know, doesn't judgeyou, that accepts you for who
(50:19):
you are. And it's just there foryou. Yeah, I mean, that is like
life changing in itself. Becausepeople that are coming to you
with problems, they don't feellike life is there for them or
that their families or in anyoneis and so you come into this
space, and you have someonethat's like, your friend,
basically, it's like, youeverything within you can relax.
(50:41):
Yeah, you know?
Jen (50:42):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So how do like, for any of my
audiences? Are you do you do itlike in person? Is this a in
person? Oh, do you do virtual?
So you do virtual sessions, aswell. So if someone if one of my
audience members was like, youknow, maybe I'm ready to try
(51:07):
something different. Maybe I amlike, because, you know, what
you do isn't necessarilydirectly about substance abuse.
And I know, that's what thispodcast is, but it's so this
views is never the actualproblem, especially because I'm
(51:27):
working with the families,right? And it's like, a lot of
times, the families forget,because they're so focused on
their loved ones. Yeah, like,well, I don't have a problem.
Well, you don't have the sameproblem. You don't have that
problem. But there are thingsgoing on, like you spoke about
(51:51):
the guilt, the shame, thequestions, the you know, I'm
constantly setting myself up forfailure, because I'm expecting
things that it doesn't everhappen the way that I want it
to. And all right, and then wehold on to that stuff. out now
we're in survival mode andwhatnot. Right? So it's all
(52:11):
about those kinds of things, thethings to heal the things to,
you know, really let go of. Soif any of my audience members
wanted to find you, how wouldthey be able to do that?
Michel (52:28):
Well, you can go to my website, which is Body Talk with
Michelle, and you would have toprobably have that in your
Jen (52:38):
I will. Yeah, I will have that in my show notes.
Michel (52:43):
I'll even leave my business email as well, you
know, just and you just email meand first session is always by
donation, because I like to givepeople a chance to see what it
is to work together in this kindof way. And kind of get to know
Body Talk. And after that I do asliding scale, because I like to
(53:08):
keep this kind of workaffordable for you know, all
kinds of different walks oflife, but still, you know, honor
myself as well, you know, right.
Jen (53:17):
Right. That's amazing. And to my families out there that
that are listening to this,what, what would be one of the
final things that you would justwant to say to them the final
message for yourself? I know,that's a big question. There's
so many things, but if you couldsay one thing to them, what
(53:39):
would it be?
Michel (53:41):
Hmm. So it doesn't matter, like whether you have
like a life like mine, you justbeing human is hard. And so even
from childhood, we collect allkinds of different things in our
buckets. And so without, likeour permission, we share those
things with our children andeveryone around us. And so I
(54:04):
think it's key for us to takethat time for ourselves, because
we put our time, everywhere, foreveryone and everything. And the
thing is, is that we can't bethat everyone and everything,
unless we be that for ourselvesfirst. And so by doing that we
can, you know, have some courageand look at that shadow. And
(54:28):
then, you know, know that youhave support doing it, you know,
it's like I know that we allhave to make the decisions and
do the things you know,ourselves. But you know, you
have support and you havesomeone to guide you. And and
then you can have somethingbetter to pass along to your
(54:50):
children and to everybody elsebecause I mean, all I've seen,
you know, in my families and Iknow it's no different than
anyone else's is that it's justa whole bunch of recycled Trump
are being passed down, passeddown, passed down. And, you
know, I think it's a, I thinkit's a good idea to be the one
to stop the cycle.
Jen (55:11):
That was such a power. So many things so powerful to go
into that in in, you know,remembering that we are so many
things to so many other peopleand really remembering to focus
on ourselves as well, it to besomething to ourselves, and that
(55:34):
we don't have to do it alone.
And again, like, if you knew howto get there, you had to be
there and write it we don't haveto do that we sometimes we can't
figure this out on our own.
Because we know you're only weare only today as as we're
talking even just me and you,right? We have a set of tools
(55:58):
and skills at our disposal. Andwe may come across something
that is out of our toolbox thatwe don't
Michel (56:06):
have, yeah, I have a team. I mean, like, I get body
talk. I also I have anothermodality ifs, but I also get
internal family system sessions.
And I also do that as well. Ialso get this thing called
surrender coaching. And I have apsychotherapist, so I feel like
(56:26):
it takes a team, you know, tocome at these things, especially
if you've had like a lot oftrauma in your life. So yeah,
yeah, it's good to have support.
Jen (56:38):
It is. Well Michelle, I just want to thank you so much
for sharing so much of yourself.
And this conversation that Iknow is going to help so many
people. So I really thank youfor your time and for your
energy. So thanks for coming on.
Michel (56:54):
Thank you very much.
Jen (56:55):
And thank you for listening to this podcast. If you want to
listen to more or find moreinformation out about this
podcast and more of what I do tohelp families you can go check
out my page at unbreakableboundaries podcast.com. It's
full of other great podcastsjust like this one, and other
great resources to look through.
And please remember to sharethis podcast with others. You
(57:17):
never know who may need to hearthis people are often hiding
their battles in this arena. Andsharing is a great way to
provide this valuable resourceto a person you may not even
know who needs it. And don'tforget there is always hope even
when things seem the mosthopeless
Welcome back to the unbreakable boundaries podcast
with your host, myself, JenniferManeely. I'm really excited
about this upcoming guests, Imet her, we were doing a red
ribbon, Red Ribbon Week, Saythat five times fast. At a local
school, which was a really coolexperience at a local school
(00:20):
actually had me and this personcome in and share our stories,
which is kind of a little of ananomaly. Just because it's like
a lot of schools, they don'treally want people coming in and
talking about drugs. But there'ssuch a, like an epidemic of
(00:41):
this, you know, addiction andsubstance abuse, and it's kids
are getting younger and younger.
So I think the school systemsare starting to recognize that
they got to do something. And sowe were two guests, which I
don't know, if you've everwalked into a high school, we
were just talking to the highschoolers. And as an adult, to
share your story. It's slightlyintimidating, but we did it. And
(01:06):
it was an awesome experience,she had such a great story. And
we could just got to talk and Iwas like, Man, you really gotta
come on my, my podcast, becauseI feel like she has so much to
give and so much to share to youguys that I think can really,
really help. So that's theconversation that we're gonna
have today. And I just want tokind of read you a little bit
(01:27):
her name, I just want to goahead and say this before I
forget, her name is Michellehare. And she does some amazing
work in in the space, eventhough it's not directly tied
into substance abuse, it can butthere's so much more going on
with people than just substanceabuse. And she helps in that
(01:47):
space. So I'm just going to reada little bit about the profile
that she sent me. And it says, Ihave lived through absolute hell
and can smile on the other sideof the Abyss, my life's work is
to facilitate healing and toguide people back to the
knowingness of their own innerstrength, and to not just
(02:11):
survive, but to live their livesfully. And this is something
that I know a lot of my audiencemembers really struggle with is
not to just feel like they aresurviving through their loved
one substance abuse issues. Imean, I can't tell you how many
(02:32):
times I've gotten on withparents who literally just sit
at home all the time, they'veput their life on pause. They
don't know what else to do. Andthey're just surviving through
life. I'm like, are we justsitting around waiting to die?
Or what? What are you going todo? They may never change? Is
this what you want your life tolook like? And so I love when I
(02:53):
read this is not just tosurvive, but to live their lives
fully. So Michelle, thank you somuch for being willing to be on
this podcast.
Michel (03:05):
Thank you for having me.
Yeah. And
Jen (03:09):
so you have said in your first line, I have lived through
absolute hell and can smile onthe other side of the abyss. So
when you say absolute hell, whatdoes that mean? What did that
hell look like?
Michel (03:29):
Growing up, it's like I learned all the things that you
know, the the situation shouldbe like, with a mom and a
daughter, or even a familydynamics. You know, my mom was
more like, competitive and withme and use me more like a crutch
because her husband wasphysically and sexually and
(03:54):
psychologically abusing me. Andthat was something that was like
a everyday occurrence in mylife. So with that just being
said, so I was like, I don'tknow, just pretty twisted up,
you know, for a really longtime. And I ended up finally,
like running away when I was 17.
Because I just, I couldn't do itanymore. I stayed for a really
(04:17):
long time because I was theoldest of six and the other five
are kind of like, I don't know,kind of like my babies. So I
just but I just I had to go andit almost seemed like things got
worse when I left if you know ifyou can even imagine.
Jen (04:34):
Sure I well, I can't imagine that because it's like
one I have to imagine this.
These are some assumptions soyou can fill in the gaps of your
own experience but you left at17 with very little actual
healthy life skills involved.
Michel (04:53):
Or any smarts you know, any common sense or anything.
Jen (04:57):
Well, because well your whole life you know Were were
the product a little bit of ourenvironment, right? And so it
doesn't sound and I can I'mmaking an assumption, but it
doesn't sound like you werebeing taught any sort of way of
actually, what does it mean tolive in this world? There are no
(05:18):
life skills being brought to thetable, you didn't have a normal
upbringing, even when you likewent to high school and stuff.
Because it's not like you'regoing home and like, your focus
is on homework or something.
It's, it's a little bit moretoxic than that, right? So now
you leave out of the home, andnow you're in the big bad world
with no life skills, no means tosupport yourself. And no,
(05:39):
nothing. I can only imagine thatthings would could only from
that standpoint, get worse.
Yeah, but they didn't stayworse. So that's the good thing.
I mean, you're here today.
Talking to me means that thejourney that was just the
beginning of the journey, andthe journey didn't end there.
(06:00):
And eventually, you know, you,you did do something different.
But when you left, when you lefthome at 17, and you say things
seem to have gotten worse, whatdid that look like for you?
Michel (06:17):
Well, it's like when you're when you're living in a
situation for a really longtime. Even if it's like hell,
it's like you don't reallyrealize exactly what it is that
you are living in, and, youknow, in relation in for so many
years, until you're on theoutside, and all of a sudden
you're like on the outsidelooking in. And it all seemed to
(06:39):
kind of explode, like in myface. And because, you know, at
17, you're like, you're runaway.
So I had to go from place toplace at that time. And going
through school, I was alwayslike, dumped because I wasn't
the one that was the sexy one. Iwasn't giving it up or anything.
And so when I went to one of thehouses, that's where I was raped
(07:01):
because I didn't do drugs oranything until I was in, you
know, 17. And I tried weed. Andso I was raised. And you know,
it just kind of progressed fromthere with foster care. And
eventually, I went to live withmy dad and Mississippi. And
yeah, that took on its own.
Jen (07:29):
Right, fair. So things got really not great for you. And so
what what would you say in thattime period, when things weren't
really great? What was kind oflike your bottom, what was the
worst
Michel (07:47):
parts of that? Leave the worst parts were. Later when I
was married to a sociopath, andthat was, I had my first child,
and he had abused me pretty bad.
And he would like, yeah, he hada drug problem. And I remember I
(08:08):
had double hernia surgery, andlike, three days later, he was
like, beat me up and dragging meacross the trailer ground floor.
And other times you would liketake my kid and threatened to
keep them from me. And I reallytwisted my brain and from there
to, like, escape that horrorthat I was kind of felt like,
(08:31):
trapped in. I went in the Army.
And yeah, so I went in the Army,and the army was great on one
hand, but it's like, if you'vehad like a lot of abuse and
trauma, it's still really hardto have like drill sergeants
(08:52):
and, and also like, people thatare in charge, you know, think
in your heart or something likethat. It's a lot of pressure,
you know, when you're justtrying to, like, make a better
life for you and your child. Sowhen I got out of the military,
I mean, not out of the military,but out of basic training and,
and eventually schooling and gotto my first duty station, I was
(09:15):
a single mom with my my son. Andit just at that point, that's
when it just started, like,everything started to crack, you
know, and within me, yeah,started to lose
Jen (09:28):
it. So, and this is something a lot of the families
that I work with, you know, theydidn't have a lot of them didn't
have this kind of upbringing orthis this background, right.
Like, it wasn't, it didn't looklike this, and they're like,
that all sounds, you know,really traumatic, but how does
(09:52):
this relate to me? And then theyalso question
like, what their loved oneexperience CES and the horrible
things that either they do orthey're experiencing, they're
like, well, we didn't, you know,raise you to be like this or
behave like this. And yetthey're doing a lot of the same
(10:12):
things that it sounds like thatyou have experienced. So my
question is, at the time thatyou are experiencing this, if
you can remember, and you maynot be able to, what were some
of the, like, beliefs that youhad about, like, your life? And
(10:33):
why? Because this is thequestion that I get all the
time. Why didn't you just leave?
Or why didn't you just stop? Orwhy don't you just not do those
things? And I think it's verycomplicated, right? I think
that's a very complicatedanswer. It's not just, why don't
you just not do those things. Solike, some of the things that
(10:53):
were was happening internallywith you at that time.
Michel (10:59):
Ya know, it's really easy, you know, when you're a
person who's like, not, youknow, within that experience, to
be able to say, you can do thisand this because there's not the
underlying belief systems, orthe feelings and the things that
are being shouted at you fromwithin. And so, I grew up being
(11:21):
told that I was never going tobe anything that I was nothing
that I was basically shipped.
And I felt I was very unlovable.
And growing up being molested, Ialso had a fear that I was going
to become what I had experience.
So that was a really big fearwhen I had my little boy, even
(11:42):
though that that wasn't evenpossible, but to my very young,
teenage mind. Yeah, so I didn'tthink that I had anywhere else
to go. I didn't know what elseto do. And so I had to
eventually find enough courageto say I can join the military.
And I can try this out. And sothat was a huge leap in itself.
(12:06):
But if you're like asking alsoabout, like, when I'm a kid,
that was that was interesting.
It's like, I did reach out topeople, it's just, my mother had
a way of manipulating me intoyou're going to put us on the
(12:27):
streets, you know, where you'regonna go to a place worse than
you've ever, you know,experienced and that sort of
thing. And so I didn't want tohurt my family, you know, right.
Jen (12:44):
Yeah. And I think you're hitting on something really
important, because it's like, alot of times, what, like, the
families and the things thatwe're looking at, is what's
right in front of us. Right. Andwe don't always get to know, all
of the underlying stuff that'shappening behind the scenes, all
(13:07):
of the pirates that have beencreated the belief systems, and
it's all that internal noise,right? So it's like, yeah, just
because someone screamssomething at you, even though
it's like from your parents, noteveryone always takes that in,
in the same way that it butsometimes, like, exactly, it's
(13:28):
it, we don't always take that inthe same way. But for some of
us, we do start creating thesebelief systems around what we're
hearing all the time andbelieving this is as good as
it's ever going to be. This isyour life. This wasn't like, you
know, you were just doing whatyou knew how to do with the time
(13:54):
that you knew how to do it, anduse true believe anything else
outside of, well, this must bewhat I either deserve, or what I
get. Yeah. You know, and I thinka lot of times when I'm talking
to families, I have to remindthem as like, there's so much
stuff that's going oninternally, that you don't get
(14:14):
to know about, they may verywell have a belief that this is
what they deserve. Because maybeit came and I don't know, but
maybe it came from they didsomething and they feel so bad
about the thing that they didthat they believe that they
deserve to be punished for therest of their life. And we'll
never get any better than this.
And when you're in that space,when you're in those moments, it
(14:35):
can be really, really hard forus to believe anything else
because it's not like we havethe skills or the people around
us. That is supporting healthyhabits because the people around
us are toxic. Yes. And they arecontinuing to perpetuate those
belief systems in us becausethat's who we gravitate too.
(14:58):
That's true, you know? And so itsounds like, there was a lot
going on at that time periodthat it wasn't just like, Oh,
I'm just gonna not live this wayanymore. Like, what does that
even look like?
Michel (15:15):
Yeah, that wasn't even an option.
Jen (15:17):
Right? It wasn't it didn't feel like an option at the time.
And I think when you live inthat kind of relationship and
abuse, I think the concern alsois, is, well, I can't leave.
Because this is a dangerousperson. You know, so I don't
know if that was something thatyou you feared for? If what
(15:40):
would happen if you tried toleave?
Michel (15:42):
Yeah, I had five younger brothers and sisters, it was, I
felt like they would be like,four of them would be fine,
because they were my stepdadsbiological children. But I had
another sister, who was fouryears younger than me. And I
just felt like her and my momwould get, you know, the brunt
of whatever it was that Ireceived, you know, when I left,
(16:03):
which is exactly what happened.
But I just wanted to do what Icould, you know, at a young age
like that, yeah. Which wasn'tmuch, but you know,
Jen (16:16):
so, um, obviously, we didn't stay there, because
that's not what your life lookslike, anymore. Right. What do
you think? Where do you thinkwas the turning point for you?
Michel (16:30):
A turning point? Well, I think it was when I think I had
the most absolutely horrible,horrible thing you could ever
have, as a parent happened tome. And it was. So the son that
I was talking about, I ended upI ended up losing him when I had
(16:51):
like, a nice little dance withmeth for about five years. And
the thing is, is that you know,that his grandparents who were
staying with, which is my exhusband, they kept him for me.
And, but I did get to meet him.
And so obviously, there's like,a lot to that, but I got to meet
him. And he, he was so sick, hewas so delusional, and the
(17:18):
things that he was telling meabout, like, and I was just
sitting there, just witnessingthis. And there. It was, it was
God awful, you know, cuz it'slike you, you see your kid and
he's like, grown. And he's sotall. And I mean, last time I
saw him is three. And he's gotthese big feet, and he's just
beautiful. And, and then he's sosick. You know, we had
(17:41):
schizophrenia. And you wanted tocome and live with me. And I had
three girls at the house at thetime. One of them is my
stepdaughter, because I wasnewly remarried. And God, I
couldn't do it. That was like,the only thing I ever wanted was
(18:01):
to have Skyler back and to behis mom, and to raise him and
stuff. And it's like, at thatmoment, like, I always wanted
him to ask me, Hey, can I comelive with you? And now that
like, we arrived at this place?
I had to I had to fucking tellhim. No. Yeah. And that was,
that was the hardest thing. Andhe's like, later on, you know,
(18:24):
he's like, Well, if you don'tlet me come live with you, so
I'm going to kill myself. And Istill couldn't do it. Because I
knew that if he came that hewould, he would be really toxic
for the girls. And I justcouldn't do that. And I thought
maybe he was just making it up,you know, just manipulating me.
And then, so from the day that Imet him six months later, he
(18:49):
killed himself. And that was,that's where I honestly would
have to say that I was at mysecond lowest. And yeah, I
would, I would get in the car. Iwould like try to put on that.
That happy, you know, as happyas you can, but have it together
to get the kids to school. Andafter I drop off the, the one in
(19:13):
preschool, I would just drivearound. I didn't know where I
was going. I was like, I waslost. I was I was in a pretty
dark pit of despair, to betheatrical.
Jen (19:27):
Well, and that's fair. This is like I think this is every
parent's worst nightmare. I knowa lot of the families that I
talk with, they have these kidsup there, and they do actually
use this as a manipulation toolbecause they know that they can
get what they want. If they justthreatened suicide and sometimes
(19:50):
they may meet it at the time,even though they might not
actually, you know, go throughwith it or anything like that.
They may feel the hopelessdespair. And, you know, I, where
I go with families is not in amean way. But it's like how do
(20:13):
we not let that impact thethings that we know, are the
right things to do right now.
And so here's, here's a reallyhard question. I'm going to ask
it. And we can just have thatconversation. be uncomfortable,
right? Yeah. But like, it makesme even uncomfortable thinking
(20:33):
about asking it. But I reallythink it's an important
question. Yeah. What did you doanything different?
No. No? And I think that is,that answer is the most
(20:58):
important answer that we canhave when we do have someone.
And we're confronted withsomething like this is being
really grounded and owning theanswer and why we're doing it.
Despite the outcome. We don'tget to control the outcome.
(21:19):
Yeah, we don't, you know,whether it could have been so
much, we don't know, what wouldhave ever happened. We can't
know. What would have happened.
If you said yes. It could be awhole lot worse. Yeah. You know,
there could have been things.
You did it for the rightreasons. And you made your
(21:40):
decision for the safety of yourhouse and for him, and he did
not. Again, you know, thissounds uncomfortable. And I
don't mean it to sound callous,but he didn't have to do what he
did. He made a decision.
Michel (21:55):
That's true.
Jen (21:57):
And that was not our decision. It was not your
decision to own right, he couldhave still have ended up that
way. Whether you know, and thennow you have your girls also
involved in that. So it's socomplicated. And I want to honor
(22:20):
one you, and the pain that youmust be experiencing, having to
go through something like that,and to face every parent's worst
nightmare nightmare out there.
While also going i i don't, thatwas the best decision that I
(22:40):
made. And I wouldn't change it.
And how do we stay grounded inourselves when something like
that happens with no regrets? Wemay grief? We're going to, you
know, feel as low as we canpossibly feel. But then how do
(23:04):
we still carry on? In in griefwithout blaming ourselves. And I
think that's a powerfulstatement. You just made one
that I'm so grateful that yousaid no, I wouldn't do anything
different. It couldn't. Youknow, so kudos to you for that.
(23:24):
Thank you. Probably the mostpowerful No, I've ever heard on
this pot podcast, to be
Michel (23:30):
honest. No, I had to I had to look at it, you know,
over and over, like fromdifferent angles, different
layers and not hide from it. SoI addressed all those different
things that same question youasked me like I addressed it
from different angles and lookedat it in different ways, worded
(23:51):
it in different ways, you know,just really making sure that I
can get in there. And I guessyou could say clean out the
pipes, you know, that there'snothing like left over, that can
sit there and trigger and run mylife. So. So
Jen (24:09):
here's, I have to imagine and you can correct me if I'm
wrong when he first askedyou if he could come live with
you. Yeah, I can't imagine thatyour first response was No. Like
it was it didn't I mean, notresponse, but your immediate
reaction was no, it sounds likesomething that may have been
(24:32):
thought about. Am I correct inthat? No.
Michel (24:39):
So yeah, you already
Jen (24:42):
knew the answer as soon as I
Michel (24:44):
did, and I hated the answer.
Jen (24:47):
Right. And had you had you already thought through your
answer before you ask beforebefore Right. Yeah, before he
asked you had you saw throughof, if he does ask, How am I
(25:08):
going to respond? Had youalready gone there with
yourself?
Michel (25:12):
Well, my husband is very beautiful human being we were
looking at, he says, Okay, maybewe could do this, you know, we
can make a room this way, youknow, just just trying to make
the decision to where I couldmake a decision freely with, you
know, with a little bit moreclear view of it. And so I
(25:36):
appreciated that from him, andthat he was even willing to even
you know, be open to that, youknow, is pretty profound, but
even looking at it, and seeingthat, okay, he could stay here,
we could do this, and you couldget him on psych meds, and then
you know, and then you go, andyou look at reality. I have not
(26:00):
raised him, and I need to behonest with you, you know, just
a side note, you know, I wasable to get him, you know, to
stay on schizophrenia medicinefor one month. But there was no,
he's in Mississippi. So thevoices are like, they're trying
to change me, and it's justlike, oh, boy, so, but I knew
(26:21):
the reality of AI, most likely,he's gonna be 18 years old. And
you know, 18 year old is goingto be like, you know, fu you
know, I do I do my own thing.
You know what I mean? Yeah, youknow, I just, I could see those
scenarios coming. And then Ialso saw the children. And, you
know, am she? How old was she,she's about 14. And she's pretty
(26:44):
girl, you know, and Skylar issexually active. And I was just
like, I don't like that, youknow, and the kids I want it I
want them to be you know, isbest in an environment that's
uplifting and his energy and hisyou know, and that would be the
older brothers, they would wantto be like him, and lets, you
(27:06):
know, oh, we finally get to meetyou, you know, that sort of
thing and would glorify whateverit was that he was carrying, you
know, into our space. And I waslike, Yeah, I wish it could be
like that little fairy tale of,oh, everything's great. But
yeah.
Jen (27:28):
So it sounds like there was a lot of thought that went into
no and recommitting to the No.
And go, it's really can'thappen. Like, it's not good. And
then when you so when you havean opportunity to look back and
go, would I have done anythingdifferent? The answer can still
(27:50):
be No, but I'm really fuckingsad. Yeah, that this is the way
that it went. Yeah, absolutely.
But I have no regrets in thedecision that I made. No, I
don't. And that's powerful. AndI think when I when I look at,
(28:10):
and I call, you know, thispodcasts and the conversations
that we have the unbreakableboundaries. That's the testament
to what I'm speaking about.
Okay. When you look at creatingsomething like that, the
unbreakable boundaries, it'ssomething that you are very
clear. In your Yes. And you'revery clear in your know, and
(28:32):
you're very clear as to why. Sothat no matter what happens, we
have no regrets. And we don'tbend. Because we've been
thoughtful. We've beenproactive, we've been clear, we
know exactly why we're makingthe decisions that we're making.
(28:53):
And we don't regret thosedecisions. And we don't bend on
those decisions. It doesn't meanthat it's coming from, you know,
not a loving place came from avery loving place, both for him,
and for your other kids that youhave in the house, your husband
yourself. This was the bestthing. And again, he didn't have
(29:16):
to do what he did. And it's notreally sad that he felt that
hopeless, that that's Yeah.
Yeah.
Michel (29:29):
And now you said you didn't
Jen (29:35):
raise him, necessarily, but you're married. You have three
kids. He's reintroduced backinto your life. That was a very
low point. When that happened,you said that there was a lot of
layers and you looked at it froma lot of different angles. Could
(29:57):
you share just some have like,you don't have to go into all of
it. But just some of the majorpoints about what were all of
the things you're consideringand the different layers that
you were looking at. And thequestions maybe that you had for
yourself. The thoughts that werecoming up the beliefs that were
(30:17):
underlying, in that, what weresome of those things that came
up?
Michel (30:23):
That was a failure. I failed at everything I did, and
everything I touched, burnt to acrisp. So those were some of the
belief systems. You know, if, ifonly I would have not chose
drugs over my son, then maybethis wouldn't have happened. You
(30:46):
know, if I could have raisedhim, maybe he wouldn't have been
with such psychologicallyabusive people, you know,
growing up, maybe things wouldhave been better. I also had to
look at the shame. The shame ofnot being able to provide my kid
(31:13):
with a good upbringing, theshame of like, that was my that
was like one of my biggestgoals. Like when I was getting
clean from drugs, I was like,I'm going to, I'm going to be
his mother. And I'm going to doa great job. And that was like,
that was my life goal rightthere. I was like, I'm gonna get
(31:35):
them back, and I'm gonna be agreat mom. And then it didn't
get to happen. And so it waslike, when he came back in my
life, I was like, Oh, I get thatchance. And it's like so it was
just like, the shame of notreally feeling like I had
anything to offer when he cameback into my life, which isn't
(31:56):
true, because I did have lots tooffer. It's just if you don't
get that result of theexpectations that you hold, then
you feel like it's all afailure, and that everything's
run dry. So expectations are whywe suffer. So yeah. What else?
(32:17):
Um the guilt of having to tellhim no guilt of him feeling like
he had no other option Yeah, isthat good?
Jen (32:35):
Oh, yeah. That was great.
No, that was really that wasreally, that was really
powerful. And I think a lot oftimes a lot of the families that
I you know, talk to and I workwith, even if it's not the exact
same questions in the waybecause they their experiences
(32:56):
are different, right? So youknow, put their situation but on
the same core things of whatyou're speaking to the guilt,
the shame, the failure newness,what did I do wrong? Where did I
you know, all that stuff is allof the same that every every
family every parent that Italked to all these things, it's
(33:19):
it comes up, right? Where did Igo wrong? If I could have done
this different I still have toevery now and then my mom has
gotten so much better becausewe've done a lot of healing
together every now and then shewill still say something that
she takes far too ownership toomuch ownership over my journey.
(33:42):
And I know mother this was thatwas not yours to own. You know
that was mind to own you'retaking too much responsibility
for something that's not yours.
Now I'm not saying that we don'thave our things so like, guilt,
shame. And it sounds likebecause I kind of know a little
(34:06):
bit more of like where you gonow. It sounds like as much
guilt shame the universal voicesthe fears, the self doubts, the
beliefs you had those all of thesame things but you didn't stay
and live with those on apermanent basis. You looked at
(34:29):
that and said have these thingswe're gonna have to go to some
places inside to not continue tocarry on and live in this kind
of thing. So what I needed helpwhat did that look like for you?
Michel (34:50):
So I felt like I was like on this like really dark
downward spiral, you know, afterjust being with that news, and
just the finality of it. Youknow, and so I broke down and
was like, I'm gonna go get sometherapy at the VA, you know, I
(35:10):
knew that other things wereavailable, but I wanted to use
like my free stuff first, youknow, it was just human stuff?
Well, yeah. Try that out. Andyou know, I had I had therapists
that would tell me that theywere looking over the notes. And
before they would see me, theywere getting really, like
(35:31):
nervous and depressed and stufflike that. And I was like, it
wasn't like a place, I'm surethey can help other people. It's
just, they couldn't hold thatspace for me. And so we have a
friend me, my husband have afriend who is BodyTalk
practitioner. And so I decidedto start on that journey, which
(35:53):
is consciousness basedhealthcare. And so it was like,
after being like, in this like,really dark tunnel just to give
visual to it. When I starteddoing Body Talk, it was like
someone just like, open thiswindow. And there was like light
coming in. And someone justgrabbed your hand and says,
Here, you know, yeah. And itwas, it was miraculous. And so
Jen (36:18):
can you kind of dive a little bit into when you say
body talk? What, what does thatlook like? What does that mean?
What do you do? Okay,
Michel (36:28):
so what do you know, right? So if anyone's ever heard
about, like, Reiki or whatever,that's like energy medicine. So
my, my husband refers to it,it's like, it's like Reiki on
steroids. So basically, if aperson comes in, whatever is
your priority, will come up inconsciousness as a formula. And
(36:50):
it's like a mathematicalformula. And your formula could
have like, an active memory of,you know, something that
happened at childhood. And youcan also have emotions that need
to be like released from certainplaces, and all these things
like will, or if you have adifferent, like a hip, this hip,
(37:10):
it needs to be in alignment withthis other hip a little bit
more, you know, oh, you know, mySP is kind of stuck. And a lot
of times when people go throughfear or startle, even at a young
age, your SP will be stuck. Andthat'll, like, help you to stay
like switched, where yourthinking is cloudy and, and
(37:31):
your, your, what you call yourpituitary gland isn't working,
so you're not getting all thosehormonal releases. So anyway,
this is like all coming in anditems like in a formula. And so
they have to figure themselvesout in order to get the results.
And so does that answer yourquestion? Yes.
Jen (37:51):
So so I just kind of like I'm going to, I'm going to do my
best to try to, to put this inwords, okay, of what I think of
how I understand it. Soit sounds like
for people who aren't like veryfamiliar with this, right? When
(38:11):
we get really tense, we canhonor that. If someone puts
their hands on our back. And wehave really tight muscles. We're
like, oh, yeah, I've been reallytense, like I've been really
stressed out. So we can, we canadmit to ourselves that our body
is holding on to tension interms of creating stiff muscles
(38:35):
in our back, what I hear yousaying is, instead of just
exploring, just the tenseness ofthe muscles in the back, we're
actually going to go a littlebit deeper, because we have
other places in our body thatare holding on to tensions that
we may not be aware of at thispresent moment. And we're going
(38:56):
to start exploring, so maybe,you know you have tension in
your hip. Right? And if we canexplore that, if you're having
pain in your hip, what's thetension? How is your body
holding on to the tension? Whatis it holding on to? And maybe
we can and why? And why? Right?
So it may be something that youknow, something happened. And
(39:17):
this goes a little far back. Butit's like something that maybe
happened that when you were akid and you've been holding on
to it in your legs. I'm justmaking this as an example. Yeah,
you're holding on to it in yourlegs since you were a kid and
you weren't even really awarethat it was there, but you have
bad knees. Right? And so now wecan explore maybe the tension
(39:40):
around your knees and how thatstress is impacting you why and
maybe we can relieve some ofthat stress. Is that is that
kind of what you're saying?
Michel (39:55):
Yeah, that's I think that's a very simple Yeah. You
can you could come in and youcan say, okay, because I'll have
people fill out like a littlesmall intake form, and they'll
put their stuff on there andthey'll come okay. And so I'd be
like, Well, what's yourintention for this session and
people will be like, okay, so Ihave, you know, let's say I have
(40:20):
a client who had issues withtheir spine, she got in a car
accident, and her spine wasinjured, she had rods in her
spine and stuff. And so once welike went into once we went into
what happened prior to that,when she was, you know, let's
(40:41):
say 17. And she got some GHD inher drink, and, you know, that
sort of thing. So anyway, whenthat when that active memory was
resolved, which is done, more orless like EMDR, but I call it
like, EMDR, with steroids, like,you really get in there with the
memory, and you take away thecharge, because that's what
(41:02):
we're suffering from. It's notjust the memory, but the
emotional charge that's aroundit. But anyway, when she when
that was resolved, she all, shecould stand up straight again.
Jen (41:14):
Wow. So there's a lot of times in, you know, there's just
another layer to it. But a lotof times, there is like a
physical trauma that happenswith people. So like you just
said, a car wreck, right. Andthen, you know, years later,
they're still having a lot ofpain. And I'm just again, this
(41:37):
is just my simplified version ofhow I'm understanding it. But
because I know this is a lotmore complex, but you know, they
may be having also physicaltrauma around their injuries
that you can help maybe relievesome of that trauma that they're
experiencing. From, like the carwreck and the memories, holding
(42:01):
on to the trauma of it, to helpkind of support them in healing
mentally from it. Is that,
Michel (42:13):
yes, I mean, I from my, from my experience, like, let's
just say, first time I wasmolested was when I was eight,
and that was like a reallytraumatic thing. I can talk
about it, like, Oh, my socks aremaroon right now. Because you
really get in there, and you letgo of all of the pain, all the
(42:34):
guilt, the shame and all thosethings. It's almost like a deep
cleaning. Yeah, and so it'slike, with, you know, this one's
a very smart one, because it's amodality because it goes off of
what someone's ready to look at.
So we'll do like basic, likeanalysis and stuff just to kind
of work you up. And you know,and then when you're ready to go
into a little bit deeper things,then you know, your
(42:58):
subconscious, let's, let's itlets us know,
Jen (43:04):
right? So, um, so this is something that you started doing
for yourself when you couldn'tget help, right? From like, the
services at the VA, and you'regoing in, and you're talking to,
I'm assuming, and you cancorrect me if I'm wrong, but it
was like, you know, your basiccounselor or therapist, and, you
(43:27):
know, you go in and you starttalking, but you're not really
getting anywhere, you're like, Ineed to get somewhere else, like
I need to be in a differentplace. And I don't know how to
get there, you know, so I don'tknow how to get there by myself.
Yeah. If I knew how to get thereby myself, I'd be there.
Michel (43:47):
Right.
Jen (43:51):
So now I need, like, this is not helping, like I think I
think, you know, sometimesthat's a very helpful thing,
depending on what a personneeds. And I think that
sometimes, we need to trydifferent things. And so you
tried this thing for your statusBody Talk, and you're like,
look, I don't know what this iswhat this looks like, but it
(44:13):
seems like maybe it could helpwe're gonna give it a shot. And
now, when you first went intoit, though, were you like,
completely open to the idea ofit? Or was there like some
resistances that you may havehad initially?
Michel (44:33):
know me, I'm like, you know, I understand where
resistance is come from, becauseit's really not your, you know,
run of the mill, you know, waysof therapy. But no, I was wide
open. I was just like, at thatpoint of, I'll do anything.
Jen (44:51):
Right, you know? Yeah.
Because you're like, I justdon't want to feel like this
anymore. And I'm willing to justdo it. anything I want in my
life? Right? Yeah. And at anypoint?
Did was there any sort of likequestions like, what were some
(45:17):
of the questions that you hadabout this type of modality? In
the beginning,
Michel (45:23):
I had a lot of questions, because I was very
intrigued, because, you know,we, you know, especially like
with the ancestral clearing, andjust just so many things,
epigenetic part of it, and I wasjust like, what's that? What's
that, you know, you know, I wasso keen about how, you know,
belief systems begin and howthey start from one energetic
(45:48):
level and make themselves doubt,you know, their way down to the
physical because it all startsright here. And that is what all
of a sudden, turns into somesort of physical manifestation.
So I just, I loved it, I sawwhat it did for me. And I always
wanted to be a therapist since Iwas in eighth grade. And I
(46:10):
wanted to, I wanted to help easethe suffering of people, you
know, and then I said, this is,this is my thing, and I just hit
the ground running.
Jen (46:22):
And so now you do this for a living, because you were like
to like this, this helped me somuch I want to take take it and
expand it in and do it for otherpeople as well. And so your your
clients see a lot of benefitsfrom this. Does it work for
everybody?
Michel (46:45):
Um, so that's an interesting question. Depends on
how I believe Okay, so if peoplekeep doing it, yes, I do believe
it does. Because there are,there's certain people that are
really like, even thoughthey're, they've tried
(47:06):
everything, and they come to me,they're still like this, if you
could imagine, like, one ofthose, like metal vault doors,
you know, to the bank, as Iclosed getting into shit, you
know, and it's like, I haveclients like that. But it's
like, if, when I get out of theway, and not need them to heal,
(47:27):
and I take, you know, we takeour time, and just, you know,
just go at it as they work,because I can find backdoors.
You know, that's, that's one ofthe beautiful things that, that
I'm given as well, if I willfind a backdoor and we still see
relief, you know, I had a clientwho came who had like Lyme
disease, and we just did little,just little balances you
(47:50):
wouldn't think was nothing, youknow, we didn't really go deep
in it, you know, first and herLyme disease was gone after two
sessions, you know, and I wasjust like, wow, you know, so
yeah, I would say yes, ifpeople, I always tell people to
give me at least six sessions,and and if you haven't seen any
results, then then you know, wecan shake hands and go our
(48:13):
separate ways.
Jen (48:14):
Yeah. And I think that's fair, because I think, you know,
six sessions is a good time tofeel like you you're you get it,
you get a kind of a sense ofthis person that you're working
with, right? So like, yeah, theyget a sense of you, they get a
sense of, of what the work lookslike. Because I think, like,
(48:36):
because you had mentioned thisearlier in the podcast,
expectations. You're on. So it'slike people, even if they don't
know what to expect. We're humanbeings. And we still come in
with expectations, right? And sotimes, like, we may not have a
(48:57):
bigger picture, or we may notknow, and we won't get a real
handle on what the work lookslike, for about six sessions.
Right? And it's like, that givesyou a chance to really know what
to expect, who I am, how I work.
And then, you know, kind ofwhere the conversations go, and
(49:18):
how to even have theconversations. Because I think
for people that aren't familiar,because I'm in like the coaching
space, right? Right. Everybodyknows what the heck that means.
And they have no they're like, Idon't even know what I'm doing
here. It takes about that manysessions, just to know how to
(49:40):
come into the sessions with anopen mind with no expectations
and to be clear about what dothey want to achieve also,
right, open?
Michel (49:55):
Yes, yeah. And develop that relationship because Um,
I've heard that like, you know,the relationship between client
and practitioner, coach,whatever it is, is like 80% of
that healing. So it's like whenyou are in that space of someone
that, you know, doesn't judgeyou, that accepts you for who
(50:19):
you are. And it's just there foryou. Yeah, I mean, that is like
life changing in itself. Becausepeople that are coming to you
with problems, they don't feellike life is there for them or
that their families or in anyoneis and so you come into this
space, and you have someonethat's like, your friend,
basically, it's like, youeverything within you can relax.
(50:41):
Yeah, you know?
Jen (50:42):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So how do like, for any of my
audiences? Are you do you do itlike in person? Is this a in
person? Oh, do you do virtual?
So you do virtual sessions, aswell. So if someone if one of my
audience members was like, youknow, maybe I'm ready to try
(51:07):
something different. Maybe I amlike, because, you know, what
you do isn't necessarilydirectly about substance abuse.
And I know, that's what thispodcast is, but it's so this
views is never the actualproblem, especially because I'm
(51:27):
working with the families,right? And it's like, a lot of
times, the families forget,because they're so focused on
their loved ones. Yeah, like,well, I don't have a problem.
Well, you don't have the sameproblem. You don't have that
problem. But there are thingsgoing on, like you spoke about
(51:51):
the guilt, the shame, thequestions, the you know, I'm
constantly setting myself up forfailure, because I'm expecting
things that it doesn't everhappen the way that I want it
to. And all right, and then wehold on to that stuff. out now
we're in survival mode andwhatnot. Right? So it's all
(52:11):
about those kinds of things, thethings to heal the things to,
you know, really let go of. Soif any of my audience members
wanted to find you, how wouldthey be able to do that?
Michel (52:28):
Well, you can go to my website, which is Body Talk with
Michelle, and you would have toprobably have that in your
Jen (52:38):
I will. Yeah, I will have that in my show notes.
Michel (52:43):
I'll even leave my business email as well, you
know, just and you just email meand first session is always by
donation, because I like to givepeople a chance to see what it
is to work together in this kindof way. And kind of get to know
Body Talk. And after that I do asliding scale, because I like to
(53:08):
keep this kind of workaffordable for you know, all
kinds of different walks oflife, but still, you know, honor
myself as well, you know, right.
Jen (53:17):
Right. That's amazing. And to my families out there that
that are listening to this,what, what would be one of the
final things that you would justwant to say to them the final
message for yourself? I know,that's a big question. There's
so many things, but if you couldsay one thing to them, what
(53:39):
would it be?
Michel (53:41):
Hmm. So it doesn't matter, like whether you have
like a life like mine, you justbeing human is hard. And so even
from childhood, we collect allkinds of different things in our
buckets. And so without, likeour permission, we share those
things with our children andeveryone around us. And so I
(54:04):
think it's key for us to takethat time for ourselves, because
we put our time, everywhere, foreveryone and everything. And the
thing is, is that we can't bethat everyone and everything,
unless we be that for ourselvesfirst. And so by doing that we
can, you know, have some courageand look at that shadow. And
(54:28):
then, you know, know that youhave support doing it, you know,
it's like I know that we allhave to make the decisions and
do the things you know,ourselves. But you know, you
have support and you havesomeone to guide you. And and
then you can have somethingbetter to pass along to your
(54:50):
children and to everybody elsebecause I mean, all I've seen,
you know, in my families and Iknow it's no different than
anyone else's is that it's justa whole bunch of recycled Trump
are being passed down, passeddown, passed down. And, you
know, I think it's a, I thinkit's a good idea to be the one
to stop the cycle.
Jen (55:11):
That was such a power. So many things so powerful to go
into that in in, you know,remembering that we are so many
things to so many other peopleand really remembering to focus
on ourselves as well, it to besomething to ourselves, and that
(55:34):
we don't have to do it alone.
And again, like, if you knew howto get there, you had to be
there and write it we don't haveto do that we sometimes we can't
figure this out on our own.
Because we know you're only weare only today as as we're
talking even just me and you,right? We have a set of tools
(55:58):
and skills at our disposal. Andwe may come across something
that is out of our toolbox thatwe don't
Michel (56:06):
have, yeah, I have a team. I mean, like, I get body
talk. I also I have anothermodality ifs, but I also get
internal family system sessions.
And I also do that as well. Ialso get this thing called
surrender coaching. And I have apsychotherapist, so I feel like
(56:26):
it takes a team, you know, tocome at these things, especially
if you've had like a lot oftrauma in your life. So yeah,
yeah, it's good to have support.
Jen (56:38):
It is. Well Michelle, I just want to thank you so much
for sharing so much of yourself.
And this conversation that Iknow is going to help so many
people. So I really thank youfor your time and for your
energy. So thanks for coming on.
Michel (56:54):
Thank you very much.
Jen (56:55):
And thank you for listening to this podcast. If you want to
listen to more or find moreinformation out about this
podcast and more of what I do tohelp families you can go check
out my page at unbreakableboundaries podcast.com. It's
full of other great podcastsjust like this one, and other
great resources to look through.
And please remember to sharethis podcast with others. You
(57:17):
never know who may need to hearthis people are often hiding
their battles in this arena. Andsharing is a great way to
provide this valuable resourceto a person you may not even
know who needs it. And don'tforget there is always hope even
when things seem the mosthopeless
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