September 11, 2025 • 50 mins
Join us for Stories and Snapshots of Israel with Todd Bolen as we journey through the land of the Bible—where history, geography, and faith converge. Todd shares how his love for photography and teaching in Israel led to the creation of the Pictorial Library of Bible Lands, a resource that has brought Scripture to life for pastors, teachers, and believers in Jesus around the world. From his first camera bought with money from a paper route to uncovering ancient sites, Todd reveals how capturing Israel in photos is about more than scenery—it’s about preserving legacy, deepening faith, and showing that God’s Word is true and alive!
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Episode Transcript
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I want that history and geography to feed
theology, right?
I want them to see the landso they can love the Lord.
I want them to see that this is true.
This is not fairytale. Let me be thefootnote or with a forgotten footnote.
But if some of what I do canlead to the eternal glory of the
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Lord Jesus, then that's the legacy I seek.
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Dr. Todd Bolen has been a dedicatededucator at the Masters University since
1996 when he began teachingat the Israel Bible Extension
Program, also known as iex,
a 15 week semester abroad in Israel,
where students immerse themselves inthe geography, history, archeology,
and culture of Israel.
(01:07):
His passion for biblical studies andteaching inspired him to establish
bible places.com and create thepictorial library of the Bible
lands.
A comprehensive 20 volume collectionof digital photographs designed
to support pastors andBible teachers taught,
has contributed extensivelyto biblical scholarship,
(01:29):
including articles in oneof my favorite study Bibles,
the archeological study Bible, whichis an incredible resource. Okay,
Todd, we are so excited to have youon the Uncharted Ministries podcast.
I've known about your work for yearsand admired you. You're a great teacher.
Wonderful to have you.
Yes, welcome, Todd. We're lookingforward to this conversation.
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Thanks for being with us today.
It's good to be with you.
Yes, we're so excited, Todd. In fact, weall share a beautiful love for Israel.
Tom and I, it's one of ourmost favorite places on earth.
I know people talk about going toItaly and England and all these places,
and when we think of where are we goingto go on a trip out of the country,
our first thought is Israel.So we share that common love.
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So my first question for you is,
do you remember your very first thoughtswhen you landed in Israel when you
began studying at the Instituteof Holy Land Studies in Jerusalem?
Well, I remember this,
I was there for a few weeks,
and I was walking through one of thestreets in the old city with a friend,
and I said, man, I'mhaving a great time here,
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but I just don't know that I'dever want to live here and be a.
Famous last words.
That's right.
But in the course of that was asingle semester and an undergraduate
program, and by the end of that semester,
I was just so much in love with Jerusalemand what got it done with the people
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of Israel. And yeah, my heart wasjust to get back as soon as I could.
I needed to graduate fromcollege. I did that, got married,
and then I was able to return.
That is awesome. So the firsttime you went as a single man,
and then after that you were married?
Right. And actually, I met my wifein Jerusalem, so she was studying.
Did.
You really?
And so that was reallyhelpful knowing that
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she was on board. She'd been toIsrael before we met and loved it.
So she wanted to comeback and study longer.
And so that was whereour relationship began,
and then it continued for manyyears thereafter in Israel.
Oh, wow. So that's really good,
because if you would've asked her tomarry you and then talk to the dad,
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by the way, we're moving to Israel. Iwonder how that would've gone over, right?
Oh, you were in some hot times there.
And we're going to get to thatin a minute. So hey, tell us,
you told me a little story as wewere talking about how your love for
photography began.
Sure.
I think it's one of those things whereGod is working well in advance and we
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don't know it. We don't realize what he'sgoing to do, how he's going to use it.
I was about 11, 12 years old.
Our family would go on vacationsand my dad had a camera,
and you want to be like your dad and Iwant to take pictures. And back then,
of course, no cameraswith phones. It was just,
so I bought a nicer Minolta camera,
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a single lens reflex with paper outmoney. So the Lord, there you go.
So I could have a paper out so I couldearn the money so that I could buy the
camera. And then June Junior high, I wason the yearbook team as a photographer,
so was able to learn some skills. Idon't know that I ever had a class,
but I had an opportunityto gain some experience and
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skills through junior high and highschool. And then when I went to
Israel, it was seeing theland, but I need to capture it,
preserve it. And so I took, at the time,
it was what was considered a high number.
Looking back now with digitalphotography, take many, many more.
But I took tons and tons ofslides. I had these carousels,
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and I would show them to people. Idon't know how much they appreciated it,
but I was just an evangelist forwhat God did in the land of Israel
and wanting to show everybody thepictures I had taken with my camera.
And was that way back wherethey had this slide carousel,
you'd put 'em in oneat a time. Oh my gosh.
We used to show 'em at churches and stuff,
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and then they'd go forward andit was going the wrong way.
And those things were sohard to work with, man.
Look how easy it is now with.
Digital. Yeah.
Yeah.
I know. Our kids will never knowwhat it means to develop film.
Our grandchildren, our kidsknow, I guess, but our grandkids,
they have no idea whatdeveloping film means.
They take a picture on their camera andthere it is right there on their phone
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straight.
Away. That's right. That's right, boy.
But did God have plans for youand that camera? That's right.
And the next one that you got.
So stepping forward a little bit, Todd.
So how did you get the idea to combineyour love for Israel and your love for
photography and your pictorial libraryof Bible lands? How did that happen?
So that I kept taking pictures,
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and then I had a chanceto live there longer.
So after I graduated with amaster's degree in biblical history,
from the school there in Jerusalem,
which is today called JerusalemUniversity College, great School,
it taught me a ton. But thenthe Master's University,
where I had studied as acollege student, said, Hey,
let's start a campus of our ownwhere we can send our students.
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Well be able to send more studentsand have certain emphases.
And so I was part of the founding teamwhile I was teaching there. That lasted,
I was there for 11 years.Our school is still there.
The Israel Bible Extensionthriving under God's grace.
But through the years I was thereis when digital photography,
they say it was invented. I mean, maybe,
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I don't know when it wastechnically invented,
but I know when it became possiblefor an average person to buy a camera.
So there was a Nikon cool picks nine50, it was a thousand bucks, which.
Wow, back then.
Yeah, not cheap, butall the film was free.
And so as I was livingthere teaching there,
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I'm taking my students to these sitesagain. And again, not the same students,
but different groups wouldcome through seminary groups.
And so I would go out in the winter, I'dgo out in the springs, summer or fall,
see the land and different conditions,
different seasons with snowand rain and sunny and green.
All the springtime is so.
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Oh, beautiful. Yes.
The best. And so then having,
just building up a larger collection.And then some of my students,
especially the grad students,seminary students, are more,
they're thinking about the future.They're thinking about, Hey,
I want to have pictures toshow my own congregations.
And so that was what motivatedme to let me put it together into
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a digital package wherethey could have them
themselves.
And so that start collectionwas released in the year 2000.
And so now we're celebrating25 years of photo collections.
So just saying that I did not realize,
so that was when digital camerasstarted 25 years ago. Wow.
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Time is moving fast.
I mean, it wasn't phones.I mean, that was still.
Right on your camera, but nonetheless,I didn't realize that was 25 years ago.
Wow. And what a innovative,anointed, spirit-filled idea,
how this has helped so many pastorsand educators, so forth. Wow,
that's amazing.
Yeah, I think about thatTodd preaching in churches,
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and when you're talkingabout Caesarea or Capernaum,
and just to have a picturejust come out on the screen,
and of course anyone that's been toIsrael just has such an affectionate
moment of looking back when theywere there and they can remember it.
They probably marked it in their Bible.
So as you taught at the IsraelBible Extension Program or IEX
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was called, you were there 1996 to 2007,
I believe in Israel. Isthat right? Okay. And
what are some of the favorite sitesto teach at in Israel? I mean,
teaching the Bible on location,there's nothing like it. I mean,
to actually be in
Caesarea Philippi andteach from the scriptures,
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Matthew 16, it's justthere's nothing like it.
What are some of your favorite sites?
That's right. And I felt like I wascheating in a way, because students,
they would say positive things and,oh, you're a good teacher, whatever.
And I think, well, I kind of havethe best backdrop in the world.
You can't teach the Bible well herethen. I mean, just That's right.
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Pack it up. That's true.
So Jerusalem, I mean, that'sjust the center. I mean,
God's heart has been theresince David chose the city.
Psalm 1 32 talks about God'slove for Jerusalem. And so
that's always going tobe at the top of my list,
even though it's also thehardest place to teach because
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so Well, but the number of people,
the traffic,
I've yelled a lot over honking buses and
such, but the history, it's allthere. It's in such a tight place,
and there's plenty of placeswhere you can get away from the
bustle. One of my favorite places ofsay like, well, where in Jerusalem?
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I like walking on the rampartsof the old city. Oh, yeah.
Yes.
And the traffic fadesaway into the background,
and you just got a greatview looking out over
the four quarters of the oldcity. And then especially,
I love that view of the Mount of Olives.
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We're always pulling out Zacharia 14,
and We're just envisioningthat our Lord's return.
And it says, well, my favorite,
some people's favorite verses is whenthe mountain splits in two and when the
Lord lands on the mountain.And that's my second choice.
My first is verse nine, Zacharia 14,nine, where the Lord will be king.
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Reigning forever there.Amen. Jerusalem. So I mean,
I love being on the Mount of Olivesitself and looking back over Jerusalem,
and I can talk for a lot longerthan my students want to listen.
Just we did all the different storiesthat you can see right in front of you.
That's so true.
Oh, man. And I think aboutbeing on the Mount of Olives,
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that is also one of themost challenging places.
Those buses are close to wherethe little teaching sites are,
and there's the vendors and the peopletrying to sell maps and things like that.
And just loud, loud and people walking by.
And you're just right to thecritical part in scripture,
and a bus fires up orsomeone yells or whatever.
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And man, we've had some challengingtimes up there for sure. But you just,
I mean, to look over and see that,
see the Kidron Valley to being on theMount of Olives to look up at where the
temple would've beenand what's coming. Wow.
That place just brings it all together.
I'm just hearing you talk aboutthis. Of course, I'm picturing,
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picturing all of this in my mind,and that's the thing about Israel,
it's so tiny that it's easy to picturethese places once you've been there.
And then for you, now that you'vecreated this incredible digital library,
photographic library forpeople that haven't been there,
that to have the opportunity tosee it, at least with their eyes,
if not in person, what agift that is truly. Okay.
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I've got a two pointed kind ofquestion for you, Todd. First of all,
were you in Israel during the secondInda? Were you all living there then?
First and Second Intifada? Oh.
You were from both of them. Wow. Okay.
So how did that shift thingsfor you during that time?
And the Gulf Wars too?
Oh, yeah. There's alwayssomething going on. Yep.
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Yeah, I mean, so the first ada,
so it started a fewyears before I got there,
but the strikes would bethe most affecting us.
So living there at the JerusalemUniversity College right next door,
the old city. So you just walkin any afternoon or whatever,
you don't have class, but there'd bemany days where all the Arab shopkeepers,
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the stores would be closed. Andso it just felt like a ghost town.
That's how it affected us. We weren'taffected by really so much by violence.
I mean, there was the, that's good.
Where that was in October, 1990,
we heard there was something going downTemple Mount Faithful try to lay the
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cornerstone up on the TempleMount. And so we went over to see,
and it was very crowded becauseof the priestly blessing,
I believe it was the same day. Andso there was just packed out crowds,
and sadly, there was violenceup on the Temple Mount.
So we were distant from that. And Ididn't actually witness it myself,
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but all the news reportswhere just the Arabs
actually started throwing rocks downon the worshipers at the Western.
The Western wall.
Western wall. And so the Israelipolice to defend against that,
there was a shooting and somepeople died on the temple mountain.
So that was tragic. That waspart of that whole ADA scenario.
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The second Ada broke out,
actually the day I was planningto take my students to Hebron.
Oh boy. The one beingHebron, that's for sure.
So that was a bitdisappointing. I was leading,
I was teaching a course inthe history of ancient Israel,
and we were going to goin David's footsteps.
And I had done this before going downto Hebron where David was king for seven
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and a half years.
And actually we'd just goneto church. It was Saturday.
And so we're there in themorning worshiping with the leavers there and got on
the bus, and it was an Arabbus company, and he said,
we're not going there. So thenthings that after that, I mean,
the main way it affectsour students, I mean,
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our just passion is to get them tothe places to see where the events of
scripture occurred and toread the Bible on site.
And so in the next fewyears, we were restricted,
so we weren't able to go to Jericho.Of course, Hepburn was off limits,
much of the territoryof Samaria. So Shiloh,
I always loved to take students toShiloh even before they excavated there.
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And people would be like, well, it'sjust a pile of dirt or whatever.
But it's a very meaningful pile of dirt.
That's right. Yes, indeed.
And there's so many biblicalevents that occurred there.
The famous one of where Samuel as aboy, but other ones too. And so yeah,
the Ada,
it never affected us as a school. I mean,
we were always careful and safe,
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but we would not always be ableto go everywhere we wanted to go.
What about since October 7th, 2023? Haveyou had a chance to be back since then?
I'm not. So I was there the summer before.
Now my daughter was back.She was there at Ivex.
She had studied before,
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but then she had an opportunityto go and work at our school.
And so she was back and they wentand saw the memorial things down
near the Nova sites and.
The Gaza border. Yeah, yeah.
We've been there threetimes since October 7th.
And each time it's been a differentIsrael, The first time we went was
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December 20, 23, so just less than40 days after the tragic event.
And boy, we saw such unity.Everything had split in Israel,
if you remember rightbefore that, politically,
they were so divided politically.But when October 7th took place,
that really unified everyone,
and they came together and we saw thatin the people. And we also saw brand new,
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which does remain still a brand newopenness with the Jewish people.
They would see us at that first time.
People would stop their cars and getout of their cars and start hugging us,
and Why are you here in the middleof a war? That kind of thing.
And then by the time wecame the second time,
there was just more sadness.It had been dragging on.
I guess that was March of 24,
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and there was just more sadness.
And then the last time we wereback was when was March, March.
Of this year.
Of this year. And now it's sadbecause that division is back now.
There's still openness with the Jews,
which is incredible to seethat veil is starting over,
their heart is starting to comedown. So that part's beautiful.
You know what Satan means forevil, God is using for good,
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but the disunity is heart wrenching. Andplus, we still have so many hostages,
health and captivity.
In fact,
there's supposed to be agathering of 400,000 people just
demanding the government. It's supposedto happen this week to do whatever,
get the hostages back. And
it'd be surprising if any of'em are alive. We pray they are.
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We actually know familiesthat have loved ones there,
but it's just heartbreakingto even think about that.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's been just sucha trial for God's people.
And of course they'veknown trials, I mean,
their whole history and Bibledescribes them and Psalms,
I was yesterday teaching in myadult class at church, Psalm 77,
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where they're just crying out toGod in this time of great crisis.
And the Psalms are veryrelevant in days like this where
there doesn't seem to be humanhope. I mean, right. I mean,
Netanyahu strengths andweaknesses. He is not the Messiah,
and he hasn't been able tobring the captives back. I mean,
we need someone who can bring thecaptives back and establish peace in
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Jerusalem. And we know who that is.
And we know Isaiah 62 justcalls on us to pray without
ceasing for the redemption ofIsrael and the salvation of the
people that he loves.
Amen. Well,
one of the things that we heard whenwe came less than two months after
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October 7th, 2023,
is that immediately after on October 8th,
people started lining up to give blood.They didn't make an announcement.
They didn't put thenewspaper on the internet go,
we need blood people just lined up.
There are people in lineliterally for hours, all day.
Hours.
There just to give. Andso what living there,
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you've seen Israel go through somany things. When you were there,
buses were blowing up and pizza places and
there were bombs going off all over.
What did you learn about Israel andthe people that can only be experienced
by being there in the land?
Yeah, the hard life. I mean, Ithink that's kind of in a nutshell.
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And I know in America there's hardshipsand different people experience
different things, but it's different.
It's different when you're surroundedby enemies and even your friends.
There's peace treaty.
I was there when the peacewas signed with Jordan in 94,
Of course, the one withEgypt some years before that.
But it's a hard existence.It's hard when you,
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it's your tiny little country, what,10 million or something like that,
that everything is dependenton in terms of the taxation,
which is the revenue,which is for the weapons.
And of course there's some support,
thank the Lord from the United Statesand some other places too, I believe. But
it's a hard existence and itmakes somewhat of a harder people.
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And that may be something that
may not be expected or whatever.
I think you can have oneperspective just imagining
how things are. You read romanticnovels like Leon Earth's Exodus,
which I love that book,
but it puts things ina certain perspective,
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which is not the fullpicture. We lived our campus,
the Israel Bible Extension campus isin the middle of different communities.
So Yadah is a communityof Jewish believers.
So that's very uniquefact that it's unique.
I don't think that any other communitiesin the world of Jewish people who trust
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in Jesus as the Messiah.But right next door is Neon,
which is a secular Israeli community,
started off as a kibbutz.
And then on the otherside of yah is tShe Stone,
which is Ultraorthodox Jewish.
And then just beyond them is, which isIsraeli Arab.
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So I mean, that's one thing yousee about Israel just from that,
but even beyond, to be sure justhow different the Israelis are.
I mean, from secular toreligious, to Arab to Jewish to,
and then there you have Jewishbelievers and some of the
original residents of ourcommunity, they were foreigners.
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They were from Finland.So there's quite a mix.
We talk about America being amelting pot, and Israel is as well.
A real melting pot.
Jewish heritage for many of them. But.
That's so true, and it's so interesting.
Most people don't understand that theythink Jewish is Jewish. In fact, Amanda,
who is on our team, you met a fewmoments ago, she's Messianic Jew,
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and she lived in Israel six orseven years, something like that.
And so we've learned and somuch going to Israel for, gosh,
since 1995, but then so much morethrough Amanda. So it's been super fun.
Well, let's get back to your photographs,which are absolutely amazing.
God has given you a gift,Todd, in photography,
your pictures are breathtaking. Andso those of you that are listening,
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if you haven't had a chance,you've got to go to Todd's website.
Bible places.com.
You got to check out thesephotos. They're incredible.
But you've taken thousands of them,not just on the little carousel slide,
but probably even more now thatthey're digital. But I know for me,
and I'm not a photographer, when Ilook through the lens of a camera,
sometimes I see things through the lensof the camera that I didn't see with my
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eyes just looking at something. I don'tknow if you have experienced that,
but if so, is there anything that you,
through the years of some ofthe photos that you've taken,
or like you mentioned that you've beenthere through all different seasons,
anything that pops out that would be afun story to share with us about what
life is like behind the camera?
Yes. So I look throughthe lens with the eye of a
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teacher,
and that's one thing that I thinkmaybe would distinguish my picture.
So there were people takingphotographs before me, of course,
and there were some websitesthat would sell photographs,
but they had a differentperspective, a different interest.
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And because I was travelingwith my students and I was teaching them about this
aspect, say at the site of Dan,which has an ignominious history,
but tribal lovers,
it's so great to stand on the locationwhere something specific mentioned in the
Bible, not just a city, butactually the site of the A.
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That was not to the true God, but I mean,
that's the very place thatwas condemned time and again,
and so when I'm lookingthrough the lens, I am
thinking, how will thispicture communicate
That's so good on the screen,and what do I want to emphasize?
What do I want to bring out?So that very much is going to
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control my interestson what I'm looking at?
I remember one time pullingoff the side of the road,
and I took an ugly picturethat I love because it
communicates, and thepicture is, it's an old sign.
It had been around for probably 20years. So it was crooked and it wasn't
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in any good shape, butit said sea level on it.
And in the distancewas the Sea of Galilee.
So when I want to tell my students thatthe Sea of Galilee is 700 feet below sea
level,
I can show 'em a picture and theycan see the ground dropping off
hundreds of feet down below,which in the United States,
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there's nothing like that. There'sthe right is the Dead Sea, which is,
or not the Dead DeathValley, which is, I dunno,
a couple hundred feetbelow sea level only.
So I like pictures that communicate like
that. And so I'm always lookingfor that angle. And yeah,
the seasons, that's asuper helpful thing to be.
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And this is tricky. If doesn't snowin Israel all that much, I mean,
not counting Mount Herman.
So if you're in the hill country aroundJerusalem and you want to get pictures
in the snow, you have to wait.
And that's where it's tough if you'repopping in on a visit or something.
But if you're living there,
but even then it's still difficultbecause Israelis are not Minnesotans.
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And That's right. You don'tknow what to do with the snow.
So they don't have a wholeparking lot full of snowplows if
it snows, the roads are closed.
So you have to get where youwant to be before it snows.
Oh, wait it out.
And that's right. And so then when itsnows, and then you can move around.
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And so I did that on several occasions.
And so I have some picturesthat to me are very beautiful,
showing a snow in the hillcountry around Hebron,
and that illustrates the elevation.So the highest point in southern
land of Israel is Hebron3,300 feet above sea level.
And that's where youhave pictures of snow.
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You don't have any snow down on thelower elevations industry law or down in
Tel Aviv or anything like that, becauseit's just not never cold enough.
That is a fascinating answer.
I love that you look through the lenswith the eye of a professor's a teacher.
That is, wow, I'm going to think aboutthat the next time I take pictures.
Right. So for the listeners out there,
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if you don't have the archeologicalstudy Bible, you should get it.
I mean,
I've really never seen a study biblequite like it that is so packed with
pictures and charts and graphs andjust right there next to the story that
you're reading about. And so Todd,
are there recent archeological finds.
(28:05):
That you, wait, backing up, Todd hada part of that archeological bible.
That's right. Sorry. Yeah,I meant to say that. Yeah,
that's where I was going with that,
that you contributed a bunch of articlesand there's pictures and photographs
and all of that. And so if youdon't have one, you should get that.
So good.
It just takes your Biblestudy to another level.
Just love that study Bible.
(28:26):
And so what are some of the recentarcheological finds that you're excited
about,
and did you participate in some ofthe digs over there while you were
there?
I did. So all the years I taught there,I always taught an archeology class.
So I would mix it up.
Sometimes it'd be an Old Testamentfocus or sometimes New Testament.
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I love the Jerusalem archeology class.
I would do a tomb tour with the studentsand we'd ghost tombs from the time of
the kings of Judah and thenfrom the time of Jesus,
and then throw in the garden tombthere because that's a little bit
controversial. And so I'malways teaching archeology.
And the best way,
and this happened to me when I wasstudying there as a 18-year-old at the
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Institute of Holyland Studies,
they had a whole week where we went upto Bates Sean. That was my first dig,
and I just.
Got that place amazing.
In this girl,
and I was really happy that she wasdigging in the square next to mine.
And I don't know that myexcavation technique was so great,
but I did get a wife out of itin the long run. That's awesome.
(29:32):
But it was LA and hot there atBates, Sean or the Sun's baking down,
but Ami Mazar, well-knownarcheologist, it was his dig.
And so got to learn from him.
And Robert Mullins washis assistant. And then,
so when I'm teaching archeology myself,we're going to as best as we can,
and I think we were able to prettymuch every single semester of students,
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we went somewhere and we dug,
we excavated at Masada just for a fewdays. So I mean, not a long stretch,
but we were excavating down at Martia.
You can go dig in the caves there.
My daughter was just back therea few months ago digging there,
and we excavated a lot.The main place was
(30:16):
Jerusalem. We also dug at asite that's potentially ai,
but it was Jerusalem where wewere digging in Hezeki Tunnel,
which may be weird because if yourviewers, your listeners here are thinking,
when were you digging? Didn't theyclear that out in the early 19 hundreds?
They cleared out most of it,
but actually there was someconnecting tunnels that
(30:41):
Roni Reich, la Shukran,
where we worked with them on differentprojects and they knew we were
free labor and we got experience.
We also were excavatingin Warren Shaft in the
SLO channel.
One of the highlights was Iwas walking with a group of
(31:02):
students there in the city of David,and we weren't excavating at the time.
I was just on a given a touror something and walked by this
hole in the ground.
So it was just this road that's onthe southern end of the city of David.
Actually, I'm sure I must've justbeen coming from the end of Hezeki Tu,
which is just right there.
(31:22):
And.
There's this hole in the ground.It was not very big at all,
but you could see down that there was some
carved stone. There wasactually some pavement.
So actually even a couple of steps,not much, but it's like, whoa,
that is, and you knewthat's the beginning,
(31:43):
something over time with inthe next few months, actually,
I think it was a couple years even wherethey were excavating and they invited
our students to come,
and we joined inexcavating the pool of silo
and the monumental staircase there.
There's these incredible steps andsets of five. And you've been there,
(32:06):
I'm sure many times withYour groups.
And so that's just neat. I mean,
we were reading John nineand Jesus sending the
blind man down there.
And now to have a part in thathistory of uncovering those steps
where the ancient people,
including probably we don't know exactlywhere the blind man went or which steps
(32:28):
he was on or whatever,
but it's not very far from the blind or
able to see. And you think about that'snot just right. I mean, you know this,
but maybe all our listeners don't.
It's not just about a manbeing able to have physical
sight. It's aboutspiritual blindness, right,
(32:50):
John and the gospel ofJohnny's bringing that out,
and there's people who are spirituallyblind. Paul's going to talk about that.
And who has the abilityto give spiritual sight?
It's the one who can give physical sight,
and it's not just a random miracleeither. It's also Isaiah 35.
The lame will leap and the blind willsee, we'll see. And Jesus is the one,
(33:13):
he's the fulfillment of thehope of Isaiah who's going to,
and now to accomplish it. I mean, Jesus,
he could just wave a wandor whatever, and okay,
all the spiritually blind can see,
but they can't withoutwhat Isaiah talks about,
the atonement of their sin.And so Isaiah speaks about,
(33:36):
it's the same individualwho's the rightful king,
who's going to be the sufferingservant. And Jesus, I mean,
he knows all this,
and he's presenting himself as that
one who will suffer forthem in order to restore
sight to the blind. Yeah.
(33:57):
So I got off there from the poolof Siloam and the excavations.
That's amazing. And then tosee it from the beginning,
like this tiny hole that the Lord allowedyou to be there long enough to see
from this little hole to theentire site being uncovered,
most people in this world donot have that opportunity.
And.
The fact that you got to see that andthen take pictures of it so that you can
(34:18):
share what the world is, is.
Incredible.
How many times have we been in Israelwhere we're going by something maybe in
the Jerusalem area orup in the Galilee area,
and you look over and you seea mound or something, you.
Think.
I wonder what's there? Is that a,is that a city who lived there?
Is this something that comes straightout of scripture and then later on you
find out it is.
(34:40):
Yeah. That's amazing. Oh my gosh. Makesme want to go back to Israel right now.
So we've been focusing more on theeducational piece of you living in Israel
and taking photographs there.
But let's just shift a little bit toraising your family there in Israel.
Not right. There is a challenge.
How many children do you have and whatages were they when you were there?
(35:00):
And when you look back at that time,
is there anything that just brings asmile to your heart when you think about
it?
So all credit to my wifeKelly. That's right.
And it started off, we were holdinghands, walking through the old city and
or we were a little more circumspect.
(35:20):
So maybe we didn't hold hands in theold city, but when we were dating,
that's right, fig, figurativelyfor that. So Burning Romance,
and then our honeymoon, literally, I mean,
we got married and it was 12 days later,
we were on a plane movingto Israel and to study
there. And she worked.
She served me working in the office ofthe school there while I was getting my
(35:45):
graduate degree.
And then a few years afterthat where we jumped on a plane
again for me to teach at the IEX campus.
And then the Lord was blessed uswith children. So we have five,
three of those childrenwere born in Israel.
One was born while we wereduring our years in Israel,
(36:07):
but during a time we wereback in the States for a bit.
And so it was just wonderful
for a bunch of reasons. So one is,
this may not be the first thing thatwould come to someone's mind who would ask
me, but we were living in acommunity of Jewish believers and IE
(36:27):
students. So our kids grew upon a college campus, very small,
but the college students loved our kids.
I mean,I have pictures now, here's a fun one.
So I have pictures of studentsvisiting us in the hospital when
just after birth, one of them, therewas a girl who came with my brother.
(36:48):
My brother is younger than me,and he had come to study at Iva.
He came to visit to see his nephew,and he brought a girl with him.
And that girl is now my kid's aunt.
So he met his wife.
That's sweet.
Studying in Israel.
That's the neat picture of family before
(37:12):
everybody was related, but.
That's fun.
We had the opportunityof just walking around.
So our little community,a little neighborhood,
it was a most Shah like atkibbutz and just real small.
And so our kids could play and they'dride their little scooter things around
(37:34):
and we'd go on walks.
And so that would be definitelya highlight of raising our kids,
was living there at yah,
in a beautiful communityof Christ followers.
But then another thingthat may be more obvious,
but I never took it for granted,
(37:55):
was just the opportunity to share theland of Israel with my children. Now,
they weren't that old by thetime we left my orders was nine,
but that you can still,I mean, nine, eight.
Oh yeah, you remember.
They do. And so we would goon hikes, we would go camping,
had some really memorable camping trips,
(38:15):
like camping right next tothe Philistine city of Gath.
And that's off the beatentrack, not allowed. That.
Is off the beaten path. Yes.
Go there.
But when you can camp there withyour kids and then go exploring
without a rush, that's onething too, that's always
(38:36):
a challenge when you're teachingguiding students to these sites.
There's never enough time. But whenyou're just camping with your kids,
you got all the time and you want, soyou go and we would go find the moat.
So the Ians, when they werebesieging, the city of Gath,
I didn't know it at the time,
but that later became the subjectof my doctoral dissertation,
(39:00):
The Aian Invasion andOppression of Israel.
So we could go and find the moats and goand look for different features of the
site. Think about David fled to Gaththere, which is kind of crazy. He's like,
Goliath was from Gath goes Goliath.
David goes to find refuge in Gath,and it didn't work out so well.
(39:23):
He's ended up acting like a crazyguy and scratching on the gates.
But a beautiful thing of that ishe wrote several psalms that are
gifts, gifts to the Jewishpeople, to the church.
Psalm 34 57,
I believe in 1 30, 1 42.
(39:43):
And just to live, I mean,
I say this way to live the Bible in away, I mean, it's different that we say,
and I'm very much right. We have tobe faithful, committed to Christ,
submissive to his word. So we live theBible that way no matter where we live.
And I'm living it today byGod's grace from California.
(40:05):
But there's a different way to live theBible when you're just walking through
the places where the eventsoccurred and sharing that with your
wife, with your kids, and.
Oh my gosh. Wow, that's amazing.
That was a wonderful time. A gift from.
The Lord. Wow. Well,beautiful. So your life work,
(40:26):
I mean bible places.com, you'vetaught students for years,
you've led Bible tours.
What kind of feedback are youreceiving from Bible teachers,
professors,
and pastors who are usingyour photos in their courses?
What do you hear from them?
(40:48):
I hear the same thing thatI hear from my students
and students. So both. So at church,
so I teach an adult Bible class,Sunday mornings now 11 years.
We started in Genesis one,
and then the next week wasGenesis two and Genesis three.
And we are now 11 years in.And yesterday was Psalm 77.
(41:10):
And every week now, not initially,
I didn't have the screensin place, but in the last,
I dunno, six, seven years, whatever,every week we have pictures.
And no matter what it is, I mean Psalm 77,
you might read it over and think whatpictures are there? But there are.
And so the feedback thatand I get and it, okay,
(41:33):
so if you're teachingfor a decade or whatever,
your brothers and sisters aren't goingto say the same thing to you week after
week. But they've said it enough timeover the years, my college students do.
So I'm teaching freshmen,they're landing here on Saturday,
brand new crop of incomingfreshmen and signing up for Old
(41:53):
Testament survey or New Testamentsurvey. And we got big screens,
and I'm putting the pictures up thereand they're just saying like, wow,
real places. And it'snot all brown and dead.
I can get the perspective, and
I'll hear from teachersand pastors in the US and
(42:16):
outside the US who havethat same experience
where eyes are open, and if apicture's worth a thousand words,
you can just visualize it.I mean, description is good.
And you probably remember GeorgeAdam Smith. I mean, the guy was,
he was the wordsmith, and hecould just bring out the land.
(42:39):
This is in the 1870sor something like that.
And back in the day beforephotography was very common.
It would come about 1890s.
There would be a lot more blackand white photo books or whatever.
But he could bring theland to life with words.
And some of us aren't asgood with words or whatever.
And so I just love having a pictureto, not one picture, but 10, 20,
(43:02):
whatever pictures that Ineed to help them to see
where it happened. I can describeShiloh with words, but when you see it,
or I can talk about the Mount of Olive,
but they're going to make the mountaintoo high. Or if they're from Nebraska,
Mount of Olives is going to be too highif from Colorado or it's going to be too
low or whatever like that. Yeah, that'sright. But here we just, there it is.
(43:26):
And so I'm encouraged. That'sjust something that I've loved.
And there's a team of us that shouldmake that clear here that, I mean,
I started off, I did most of the workfor the first decade or something,
but in the last decade,it's been a team of friends,
scholars,
guys with their doctorates living inNebraska and Japan and Israel and other
(43:48):
places around and collaborating,and they just know a lot of things,
I don't know. And helpingto build photo collections.
We're building photo collections nowthat illustrate the Bible book by book.
So Matthew Mark, I mean,chapter. That's awesome.
And here's a big advantage for that.
It's just easy to find what you'relooking for. If you know your text,
(44:13):
you just jump right into the book of Acts.
If you're teaching Paul'sfirst journey or whatever,
you don't have to go toTurkey, Greece, Italy,
or whatever for Paul's journeys.It's all just laid out there for you.
And so with the help of my just
amazing team,
(44:35):
we're trying to create photocollections that are just super useful,
serious Bible students.But then pastors, teachers,
Bible translators, Bibletranslators love to, oh.
I bet they do.
So they're thinking about howto put this into words best.
They can choose the words in the targetlanguage that best suits the reality.
(44:57):
Wow. Todd, thank you somuch for your work for bible
places.com and for your workat the Masters University
for your Bible tours. Joanne, I feellike we need to go on a Bible tour and.
Start over. That's exactly.
Right. We do. We've done,it's crazy. Over a hundred,
but it is just,
(45:17):
we could just sit and listen to you allday hearing things that we didn't know.
That's right.
And here, we've been thereso many times. So I know.
Joanne.
You have a last question?
Yeah. I guess last question. I mean,your work is incredible. It's tangible,
it's visual.
So all these decades that you've beendoing this living there and then taking
students there,
what legacy do you hope to leavebehind with bible places.com,
(45:40):
not just with the future generationsof students and educators,
but also with your family?What kind of legacy, Todd,
do you hope to leave behind?
Yeah, the Lord is good.
I want people to love the Lord.
And you love the Lord byknowing the Lord, the Lord,
by knowing his word.
(46:01):
And his word is not somephilosophical treatise.
It is revelation in space and time.
It is history and geography.
And so you don't need, Imean, I would say to people,
you don't need to go to Israel,
John Calvin or my family.
(46:23):
We were just talking about Augustinelast night and doing a little reading
together or whatever, but theynever went to the Bible lands.
And people today,
I mean brothers and sistersin my church who are deeply
committed to the Lord.
Some of them are older and they're notgoing to be able to go or whatever.
(46:43):
So I wouldn't want to takeanything away from them.
But I would say that there's many who
I mean are going to be able to go. So Iwant to encourage that. And my students,
and it's nice. I teach at a schoolwhere I can say, we have our own campus.
You don't even have to transferbecause you just spend the semester.
(47:05):
It's a longer commuteto get. That's right.
But I want that historyand geography to feed
theology.
I want that to see theland so they can love the
Lord. I want them tosee that this is true.
This is not fairytale.It's not Book of Mormon.
(47:30):
It is God working in time and space.
He's working out his planto, and here's a big thing.
My students are going to get tired ofhearing me say this in my Old Testament
class starting up.It's very soon.
But God did this to bless allthe families of the world.
That's his design, that's hisintention. And so if I can,
(47:54):
through teaching in theclassroom photographs,
which back up that teaching photographswhich are used by others who
are committed to the Lord andwant people to love his word
for the blessing of the nations,
for the faithfulness of the church,
the believers who are sharingthe gospel with their neighbors,
(48:18):
Gentile and Jewish,
and leading to the salvation of many,
including God's chosenpeople in anticipation of the
day,
when the Lord returns to findfaithful believers who are
just in love with him,
who've been good stewards ofwhat has been entrusted to us
(48:40):
for more faithful serviceof the Lord in his
kingdom. Forget me.
Let me be the footnote orwith a forgotten footnote.
But if some of what I do canlead to the eternal glory of the
Lord Jesus, then that's the legacy I seek.
Wow. Amen. And that's what you're doing,my friend. Beautiful answer. Thank you.
(49:03):
Wow.
Well.
It's been a pleasurehaving you with us today.
And just thank you for all thework you've done over the years and
started with a littlecamera, off a paper route,
and look at where it's gone All overthe world. And thank you for your help.
We were privileged in our ministryand charted ministries to buy.
(49:23):
I think the whole collection,I think is what we bought,
or as close as what's allfor sale at this point.
And our team is so excitedabout how that's just going to help them illustrating
things as they're talking in churchesand all kinds of different things.
So thank you for what you've done,and you've made Israel come to life.
(49:44):
There's a lot of people that willnever get to go, like you said,
but they'll feel like they've beenthere by going through the Bible.
That's right.
The whole Pictionary thatyou have on bible places.com.
So thank you for your work.
Thank you for teaching the word ofGod faithfully for all these years,
and just a privilege tohave you on the program.
Well, thank you, Tom.Thank you, Joanne. I mean,
(50:05):
for your faithfulness to the Lord,
many years running in Israel and outof Israel and other places we've talked
about where you've brought Bibles and just
for your faithful serving the Lord, justa blessing to me and to many thank you.
Amen.
Thank you, Todd. Thank you. Well,this has been a fun conversation. It.
Sure.
Has.
Maybe we can go to Israel togethersomeday. That's right. That'd be so fun.
(50:27):
That's right.
I'd love that. We too. Well, God blessyou. You, Todd. God bless you. Thank you.
I want that history and geography to feed
theology, right?
I want them to see the landso they can love the Lord.
I want them to see that this is true.
This is not fairytale. Let me be thefootnote or with a forgotten footnote.
But if some of what I do canlead to the eternal glory of the
(00:23):
Lord Jesus, then that's the legacy I seek.
(00:46):
Dr. Todd Bolen has been a dedicatededucator at the Masters University since
1996 when he began teachingat the Israel Bible Extension
Program, also known as iex,
a 15 week semester abroad in Israel,
where students immerse themselves inthe geography, history, archeology,
and culture of Israel.
(01:07):
His passion for biblical studies andteaching inspired him to establish
bible places.com and create thepictorial library of the Bible
lands.
A comprehensive 20 volume collectionof digital photographs designed
to support pastors andBible teachers taught,
has contributed extensivelyto biblical scholarship,
(01:29):
including articles in oneof my favorite study Bibles,
the archeological study Bible, whichis an incredible resource. Okay,
Todd, we are so excited to have youon the Uncharted Ministries podcast.
I've known about your work for yearsand admired you. You're a great teacher.
Wonderful to have you.
Yes, welcome, Todd. We're lookingforward to this conversation.
(01:51):
Thanks for being with us today.
It's good to be with you.
Yes, we're so excited, Todd. In fact, weall share a beautiful love for Israel.
Tom and I, it's one of ourmost favorite places on earth.
I know people talk about going toItaly and England and all these places,
and when we think of where are we goingto go on a trip out of the country,
our first thought is Israel.So we share that common love.
(02:13):
So my first question for you is,
do you remember your very first thoughtswhen you landed in Israel when you
began studying at the Instituteof Holy Land Studies in Jerusalem?
Well, I remember this,
I was there for a few weeks,
and I was walking through one of thestreets in the old city with a friend,
and I said, man, I'mhaving a great time here,
(02:35):
but I just don't know that I'dever want to live here and be a.
Famous last words.
That's right.
But in the course of that was asingle semester and an undergraduate
program, and by the end of that semester,
I was just so much in love with Jerusalemand what got it done with the people
(02:55):
of Israel. And yeah, my heart wasjust to get back as soon as I could.
I needed to graduate fromcollege. I did that, got married,
and then I was able to return.
That is awesome. So the firsttime you went as a single man,
and then after that you were married?
Right. And actually, I met my wifein Jerusalem, so she was studying.
Did.
You really?
And so that was reallyhelpful knowing that
(03:20):
she was on board. She'd been toIsrael before we met and loved it.
So she wanted to comeback and study longer.
And so that was whereour relationship began,
and then it continued for manyyears thereafter in Israel.
Oh, wow. So that's really good,
because if you would've asked her tomarry you and then talk to the dad,
(03:42):
by the way, we're moving to Israel. Iwonder how that would've gone over, right?
Oh, you were in some hot times there.
And we're going to get to thatin a minute. So hey, tell us,
you told me a little story as wewere talking about how your love for
photography began.
Sure.
I think it's one of those things whereGod is working well in advance and we
(04:03):
don't know it. We don't realize what he'sgoing to do, how he's going to use it.
I was about 11, 12 years old.
Our family would go on vacationsand my dad had a camera,
and you want to be like your dad and Iwant to take pictures. And back then,
of course, no cameraswith phones. It was just,
so I bought a nicer Minolta camera,
(04:26):
a single lens reflex with paper outmoney. So the Lord, there you go.
So I could have a paper out so I couldearn the money so that I could buy the
camera. And then June Junior high, I wason the yearbook team as a photographer,
so was able to learn some skills. Idon't know that I ever had a class,
but I had an opportunityto gain some experience and
(04:46):
skills through junior high and highschool. And then when I went to
Israel, it was seeing theland, but I need to capture it,
preserve it. And so I took, at the time,
it was what was considered a high number.
Looking back now with digitalphotography, take many, many more.
But I took tons and tons ofslides. I had these carousels,
(05:07):
and I would show them to people. Idon't know how much they appreciated it,
but I was just an evangelist forwhat God did in the land of Israel
and wanting to show everybody thepictures I had taken with my camera.
And was that way back wherethey had this slide carousel,
you'd put 'em in oneat a time. Oh my gosh.
We used to show 'em at churches and stuff,
(05:28):
and then they'd go forward andit was going the wrong way.
And those things were sohard to work with, man.
Look how easy it is now with.
Digital. Yeah.
Yeah.
I know. Our kids will never knowwhat it means to develop film.
Our grandchildren, our kidsknow, I guess, but our grandkids,
they have no idea whatdeveloping film means.
They take a picture on their camera andthere it is right there on their phone
(05:51):
straight.
Away. That's right. That's right, boy.
But did God have plans for youand that camera? That's right.
And the next one that you got.
So stepping forward a little bit, Todd.
So how did you get the idea to combineyour love for Israel and your love for
photography and your pictorial libraryof Bible lands? How did that happen?
So that I kept taking pictures,
(06:12):
and then I had a chanceto live there longer.
So after I graduated with amaster's degree in biblical history,
from the school there in Jerusalem,
which is today called JerusalemUniversity College, great School,
it taught me a ton. But thenthe Master's University,
where I had studied as acollege student, said, Hey,
let's start a campus of our ownwhere we can send our students.
(06:33):
Well be able to send more studentsand have certain emphases.
And so I was part of the founding teamwhile I was teaching there. That lasted,
I was there for 11 years.Our school is still there.
The Israel Bible Extensionthriving under God's grace.
But through the years I was thereis when digital photography,
they say it was invented. I mean, maybe,
(06:53):
I don't know when it wastechnically invented,
but I know when it became possiblefor an average person to buy a camera.
So there was a Nikon cool picks nine50, it was a thousand bucks, which.
Wow, back then.
Yeah, not cheap, butall the film was free.
And so as I was livingthere teaching there,
(07:15):
I'm taking my students to these sitesagain. And again, not the same students,
but different groups wouldcome through seminary groups.
And so I would go out in the winter, I'dgo out in the springs, summer or fall,
see the land and different conditions,
different seasons with snowand rain and sunny and green.
All the springtime is so.
(07:36):
Oh, beautiful. Yes.
The best. And so then having,
just building up a larger collection.And then some of my students,
especially the grad students,seminary students, are more,
they're thinking about the future.They're thinking about, Hey,
I want to have pictures toshow my own congregations.
And so that was what motivatedme to let me put it together into
(07:59):
a digital package wherethey could have them
themselves.
And so that start collectionwas released in the year 2000.
And so now we're celebrating25 years of photo collections.
So just saying that I did not realize,
so that was when digital camerasstarted 25 years ago. Wow.
(08:21):
Time is moving fast.
I mean, it wasn't phones.I mean, that was still.
Right on your camera, but nonetheless,I didn't realize that was 25 years ago.
Wow. And what a innovative,anointed, spirit-filled idea,
how this has helped so many pastorsand educators, so forth. Wow,
that's amazing.
Yeah, I think about thatTodd preaching in churches,
(08:44):
and when you're talkingabout Caesarea or Capernaum,
and just to have a picturejust come out on the screen,
and of course anyone that's been toIsrael just has such an affectionate
moment of looking back when theywere there and they can remember it.
They probably marked it in their Bible.
So as you taught at the IsraelBible Extension Program or IEX
(09:09):
was called, you were there 1996 to 2007,
I believe in Israel. Isthat right? Okay. And
what are some of the favorite sitesto teach at in Israel? I mean,
teaching the Bible on location,there's nothing like it. I mean,
to actually be in
Caesarea Philippi andteach from the scriptures,
(09:32):
Matthew 16, it's justthere's nothing like it.
What are some of your favorite sites?
That's right. And I felt like I wascheating in a way, because students,
they would say positive things and,oh, you're a good teacher, whatever.
And I think, well, I kind of havethe best backdrop in the world.
You can't teach the Bible well herethen. I mean, just That's right.
(09:53):
Pack it up. That's true.
So Jerusalem, I mean, that'sjust the center. I mean,
God's heart has been theresince David chose the city.
Psalm 1 32 talks about God'slove for Jerusalem. And so
that's always going tobe at the top of my list,
even though it's also thehardest place to teach because
(10:17):
so Well, but the number of people,
the traffic,
I've yelled a lot over honking buses and
such, but the history, it's allthere. It's in such a tight place,
and there's plenty of placeswhere you can get away from the
bustle. One of my favorite places ofsay like, well, where in Jerusalem?
(10:41):
I like walking on the rampartsof the old city. Oh, yeah.
Yes.
And the traffic fadesaway into the background,
and you just got a greatview looking out over
the four quarters of the oldcity. And then especially,
I love that view of the Mount of Olives.
(11:01):
We're always pulling out Zacharia 14,
and We're just envisioningthat our Lord's return.
And it says, well, my favorite,
some people's favorite verses is whenthe mountain splits in two and when the
Lord lands on the mountain.And that's my second choice.
My first is verse nine, Zacharia 14,nine, where the Lord will be king.
(11:26):
Reigning forever there.Amen. Jerusalem. So I mean,
I love being on the Mount of Olivesitself and looking back over Jerusalem,
and I can talk for a lot longerthan my students want to listen.
Just we did all the different storiesthat you can see right in front of you.
That's so true.
Oh, man. And I think aboutbeing on the Mount of Olives,
(11:48):
that is also one of themost challenging places.
Those buses are close to wherethe little teaching sites are,
and there's the vendors and the peopletrying to sell maps and things like that.
And just loud, loud and people walking by.
And you're just right to thecritical part in scripture,
and a bus fires up orsomeone yells or whatever.
(12:10):
And man, we've had some challengingtimes up there for sure. But you just,
I mean, to look over and see that,
see the Kidron Valley to being on theMount of Olives to look up at where the
temple would've beenand what's coming. Wow.
That place just brings it all together.
I'm just hearing you talk aboutthis. Of course, I'm picturing,
(12:31):
picturing all of this in my mind,and that's the thing about Israel,
it's so tiny that it's easy to picturethese places once you've been there.
And then for you, now that you'vecreated this incredible digital library,
photographic library forpeople that haven't been there,
that to have the opportunity tosee it, at least with their eyes,
if not in person, what agift that is truly. Okay.
(12:53):
I've got a two pointed kind ofquestion for you, Todd. First of all,
were you in Israel during the secondInda? Were you all living there then?
First and Second Intifada? Oh.
You were from both of them. Wow. Okay.
So how did that shift thingsfor you during that time?
And the Gulf Wars too?
Oh, yeah. There's alwayssomething going on. Yep.
(13:15):
Yeah, I mean, so the first ada,
so it started a fewyears before I got there,
but the strikes would bethe most affecting us.
So living there at the JerusalemUniversity College right next door,
the old city. So you just walkin any afternoon or whatever,
you don't have class, but there'd bemany days where all the Arab shopkeepers,
(13:38):
the stores would be closed. Andso it just felt like a ghost town.
That's how it affected us. We weren'taffected by really so much by violence.
I mean, there was the, that's good.
Where that was in October, 1990,
we heard there was something going downTemple Mount Faithful try to lay the
(13:58):
cornerstone up on the TempleMount. And so we went over to see,
and it was very crowded becauseof the priestly blessing,
I believe it was the same day. Andso there was just packed out crowds,
and sadly, there was violenceup on the Temple Mount.
So we were distant from that. And Ididn't actually witness it myself,
(14:18):
but all the news reportswhere just the Arabs
actually started throwing rocks downon the worshipers at the Western.
The Western wall.
Western wall. And so the Israelipolice to defend against that,
there was a shooting and somepeople died on the temple mountain.
So that was tragic. That waspart of that whole ADA scenario.
(14:42):
The second Ada broke out,
actually the day I was planningto take my students to Hebron.
Oh boy. The one beingHebron, that's for sure.
So that was a bitdisappointing. I was leading,
I was teaching a course inthe history of ancient Israel,
and we were going to goin David's footsteps.
And I had done this before going downto Hebron where David was king for seven
(15:04):
and a half years.
And actually we'd just goneto church. It was Saturday.
And so we're there in themorning worshiping with the leavers there and got on
the bus, and it was an Arabbus company, and he said,
we're not going there. So thenthings that after that, I mean,
the main way it affectsour students, I mean,
(15:24):
our just passion is to get them tothe places to see where the events of
scripture occurred and toread the Bible on site.
And so in the next fewyears, we were restricted,
so we weren't able to go to Jericho.Of course, Hepburn was off limits,
much of the territoryof Samaria. So Shiloh,
I always loved to take students toShiloh even before they excavated there.
(15:48):
And people would be like, well, it'sjust a pile of dirt or whatever.
But it's a very meaningful pile of dirt.
That's right. Yes, indeed.
And there's so many biblicalevents that occurred there.
The famous one of where Samuel as aboy, but other ones too. And so yeah,
the Ada,
it never affected us as a school. I mean,
we were always careful and safe,
(16:10):
but we would not always be ableto go everywhere we wanted to go.
What about since October 7th, 2023? Haveyou had a chance to be back since then?
I'm not. So I was there the summer before.
Now my daughter was back.She was there at Ivex.
She had studied before,
(16:31):
but then she had an opportunityto go and work at our school.
And so she was back and they wentand saw the memorial things down
near the Nova sites and.
The Gaza border. Yeah, yeah.
We've been there threetimes since October 7th.
And each time it's been a differentIsrael, The first time we went was
(16:53):
December 20, 23, so just less than40 days after the tragic event.
And boy, we saw such unity.Everything had split in Israel,
if you remember rightbefore that, politically,
they were so divided politically.But when October 7th took place,
that really unified everyone,
and they came together and we saw thatin the people. And we also saw brand new,
(17:14):
which does remain still a brand newopenness with the Jewish people.
They would see us at that first time.
People would stop their cars and getout of their cars and start hugging us,
and Why are you here in the middleof a war? That kind of thing.
And then by the time wecame the second time,
there was just more sadness.It had been dragging on.
I guess that was March of 24,
(17:36):
and there was just more sadness.
And then the last time we wereback was when was March, March.
Of this year.
Of this year. And now it's sadbecause that division is back now.
There's still openness with the Jews,
which is incredible to seethat veil is starting over,
their heart is starting to comedown. So that part's beautiful.
You know what Satan means forevil, God is using for good,
(17:59):
but the disunity is heart wrenching. Andplus, we still have so many hostages,
health and captivity.
In fact,
there's supposed to be agathering of 400,000 people just
demanding the government. It's supposedto happen this week to do whatever,
get the hostages back. And
it'd be surprising if any of'em are alive. We pray they are.
(18:22):
We actually know familiesthat have loved ones there,
but it's just heartbreakingto even think about that.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's been just sucha trial for God's people.
And of course they'veknown trials, I mean,
their whole history and Bibledescribes them and Psalms,
I was yesterday teaching in myadult class at church, Psalm 77,
(18:45):
where they're just crying out toGod in this time of great crisis.
And the Psalms are veryrelevant in days like this where
there doesn't seem to be humanhope. I mean, right. I mean,
Netanyahu strengths andweaknesses. He is not the Messiah,
and he hasn't been able tobring the captives back. I mean,
we need someone who can bring thecaptives back and establish peace in
(19:09):
Jerusalem. And we know who that is.
And we know Isaiah 62 justcalls on us to pray without
ceasing for the redemption ofIsrael and the salvation of the
people that he loves.
Amen. Well,
one of the things that we heard whenwe came less than two months after
(19:30):
October 7th, 2023,
is that immediately after on October 8th,
people started lining up to give blood.They didn't make an announcement.
They didn't put thenewspaper on the internet go,
we need blood people just lined up.
There are people in lineliterally for hours, all day.
Hours.
There just to give. Andso what living there,
(19:53):
you've seen Israel go through somany things. When you were there,
buses were blowing up and pizza places and
there were bombs going off all over.
What did you learn about Israel andthe people that can only be experienced
by being there in the land?
Yeah, the hard life. I mean, Ithink that's kind of in a nutshell.
(20:16):
And I know in America there's hardshipsand different people experience
different things, but it's different.
It's different when you're surroundedby enemies and even your friends.
There's peace treaty.
I was there when the peacewas signed with Jordan in 94,
Of course, the one withEgypt some years before that.
But it's a hard existence.It's hard when you,
(20:40):
it's your tiny little country, what,10 million or something like that,
that everything is dependenton in terms of the taxation,
which is the revenue,which is for the weapons.
And of course there's some support,
thank the Lord from the United Statesand some other places too, I believe. But
it's a hard existence and itmakes somewhat of a harder people.
(21:04):
And that may be something that
may not be expected or whatever.
I think you can have oneperspective just imagining
how things are. You read romanticnovels like Leon Earth's Exodus,
which I love that book,
but it puts things ina certain perspective,
(21:26):
which is not the fullpicture. We lived our campus,
the Israel Bible Extension campus isin the middle of different communities.
So Yadah is a communityof Jewish believers.
So that's very uniquefact that it's unique.
I don't think that any other communitiesin the world of Jewish people who trust
(21:46):
in Jesus as the Messiah.But right next door is Neon,
which is a secular Israeli community,
started off as a kibbutz.
And then on the otherside of yah is tShe Stone,
which is Ultraorthodox Jewish.
And then just beyond them is, which isIsraeli Arab.
(22:09):
So I mean, that's one thing yousee about Israel just from that,
but even beyond, to be sure justhow different the Israelis are.
I mean, from secular toreligious, to Arab to Jewish to,
and then there you have Jewishbelievers and some of the
original residents of ourcommunity, they were foreigners.
(22:30):
They were from Finland.So there's quite a mix.
We talk about America being amelting pot, and Israel is as well.
A real melting pot.
Jewish heritage for many of them. But.
That's so true, and it's so interesting.
Most people don't understand that theythink Jewish is Jewish. In fact, Amanda,
who is on our team, you met a fewmoments ago, she's Messianic Jew,
(22:52):
and she lived in Israel six orseven years, something like that.
And so we've learned and somuch going to Israel for, gosh,
since 1995, but then so much morethrough Amanda. So it's been super fun.
Well, let's get back to your photographs,which are absolutely amazing.
God has given you a gift,Todd, in photography,
your pictures are breathtaking. Andso those of you that are listening,
(23:17):
if you haven't had a chance,you've got to go to Todd's website.
Bible places.com.
You got to check out thesephotos. They're incredible.
But you've taken thousands of them,not just on the little carousel slide,
but probably even more now thatthey're digital. But I know for me,
and I'm not a photographer, when Ilook through the lens of a camera,
sometimes I see things through the lensof the camera that I didn't see with my
(23:38):
eyes just looking at something. I don'tknow if you have experienced that,
but if so, is there anything that you,
through the years of some ofthe photos that you've taken,
or like you mentioned that you've beenthere through all different seasons,
anything that pops out that would be afun story to share with us about what
life is like behind the camera?
Yes. So I look throughthe lens with the eye of a
(24:03):
teacher,
and that's one thing that I thinkmaybe would distinguish my picture.
So there were people takingphotographs before me, of course,
and there were some websitesthat would sell photographs,
but they had a differentperspective, a different interest.
(24:24):
And because I was travelingwith my students and I was teaching them about this
aspect, say at the site of Dan,which has an ignominious history,
but tribal lovers,
it's so great to stand on the locationwhere something specific mentioned in the
Bible, not just a city, butactually the site of the A.
(24:46):
That was not to the true God, but I mean,
that's the very place thatwas condemned time and again,
and so when I'm lookingthrough the lens, I am
thinking, how will thispicture communicate
That's so good on the screen,and what do I want to emphasize?
What do I want to bring out?So that very much is going to
(25:11):
control my interestson what I'm looking at?
I remember one time pullingoff the side of the road,
and I took an ugly picturethat I love because it
communicates, and thepicture is, it's an old sign.
It had been around for probably 20years. So it was crooked and it wasn't
(25:31):
in any good shape, butit said sea level on it.
And in the distancewas the Sea of Galilee.
So when I want to tell my students thatthe Sea of Galilee is 700 feet below sea
level,
I can show 'em a picture and theycan see the ground dropping off
hundreds of feet down below,which in the United States,
(25:55):
there's nothing like that. There'sthe right is the Dead Sea, which is,
or not the Dead DeathValley, which is, I dunno,
a couple hundred feetbelow sea level only.
So I like pictures that communicate like
that. And so I'm always lookingfor that angle. And yeah,
the seasons, that's asuper helpful thing to be.
(26:19):
And this is tricky. If doesn't snowin Israel all that much, I mean,
not counting Mount Herman.
So if you're in the hill country aroundJerusalem and you want to get pictures
in the snow, you have to wait.
And that's where it's tough if you'repopping in on a visit or something.
But if you're living there,
but even then it's still difficultbecause Israelis are not Minnesotans.
(26:40):
And That's right. You don'tknow what to do with the snow.
So they don't have a wholeparking lot full of snowplows if
it snows, the roads are closed.
So you have to get where youwant to be before it snows.
Oh, wait it out.
And that's right. And so then when itsnows, and then you can move around.
(27:01):
And so I did that on several occasions.
And so I have some picturesthat to me are very beautiful,
showing a snow in the hillcountry around Hebron,
and that illustrates the elevation.So the highest point in southern
land of Israel is Hebron3,300 feet above sea level.
And that's where youhave pictures of snow.
(27:21):
You don't have any snow down on thelower elevations industry law or down in
Tel Aviv or anything like that, becauseit's just not never cold enough.
That is a fascinating answer.
I love that you look through the lenswith the eye of a professor's a teacher.
That is, wow, I'm going to think aboutthat the next time I take pictures.
Right. So for the listeners out there,
(27:44):
if you don't have the archeologicalstudy Bible, you should get it.
I mean,
I've really never seen a study biblequite like it that is so packed with
pictures and charts and graphs andjust right there next to the story that
you're reading about. And so Todd,
are there recent archeological finds.
(28:05):
That you, wait, backing up, Todd hada part of that archeological bible.
That's right. Sorry. Yeah,I meant to say that. Yeah,
that's where I was going with that,
that you contributed a bunch of articlesand there's pictures and photographs
and all of that. And so if youdon't have one, you should get that.
So good.
It just takes your Biblestudy to another level.
Just love that study Bible.
(28:26):
And so what are some of the recentarcheological finds that you're excited
about,
and did you participate in some ofthe digs over there while you were
there?
I did. So all the years I taught there,I always taught an archeology class.
So I would mix it up.
Sometimes it'd be an Old Testamentfocus or sometimes New Testament.
(28:48):
I love the Jerusalem archeology class.
I would do a tomb tour with the studentsand we'd ghost tombs from the time of
the kings of Judah and thenfrom the time of Jesus,
and then throw in the garden tombthere because that's a little bit
controversial. And so I'malways teaching archeology.
And the best way,
and this happened to me when I wasstudying there as a 18-year-old at the
(29:10):
Institute of Holyland Studies,
they had a whole week where we went upto Bates Sean. That was my first dig,
and I just.
Got that place amazing.
In this girl,
and I was really happy that she wasdigging in the square next to mine.
And I don't know that myexcavation technique was so great,
but I did get a wife out of itin the long run. That's awesome.
(29:32):
But it was LA and hot there atBates, Sean or the Sun's baking down,
but Ami Mazar, well-knownarcheologist, it was his dig.
And so got to learn from him.
And Robert Mullins washis assistant. And then,
so when I'm teaching archeology myself,we're going to as best as we can,
and I think we were able to prettymuch every single semester of students,
(29:56):
we went somewhere and we dug,
we excavated at Masada just for a fewdays. So I mean, not a long stretch,
but we were excavating down at Martia.
You can go dig in the caves there.
My daughter was just back therea few months ago digging there,
and we excavated a lot.The main place was
(30:16):
Jerusalem. We also dug at asite that's potentially ai,
but it was Jerusalem where wewere digging in Hezeki Tunnel,
which may be weird because if yourviewers, your listeners here are thinking,
when were you digging? Didn't theyclear that out in the early 19 hundreds?
They cleared out most of it,
but actually there was someconnecting tunnels that
(30:41):
Roni Reich, la Shukran,
where we worked with them on differentprojects and they knew we were
free labor and we got experience.
We also were excavatingin Warren Shaft in the
SLO channel.
One of the highlights was Iwas walking with a group of
(31:02):
students there in the city of David,and we weren't excavating at the time.
I was just on a given a touror something and walked by this
hole in the ground.
So it was just this road that's onthe southern end of the city of David.
Actually, I'm sure I must've justbeen coming from the end of Hezeki Tu,
which is just right there.
(31:22):
And.
There's this hole in the ground.It was not very big at all,
but you could see down that there was some
carved stone. There wasactually some pavement.
So actually even a couple of steps,not much, but it's like, whoa,
that is, and you knewthat's the beginning,
(31:43):
something over time with inthe next few months, actually,
I think it was a couple years even wherethey were excavating and they invited
our students to come,
and we joined inexcavating the pool of silo
and the monumental staircase there.
There's these incredible steps andsets of five. And you've been there,
(32:06):
I'm sure many times withYour groups.
And so that's just neat. I mean,
we were reading John nineand Jesus sending the
blind man down there.
And now to have a part in thathistory of uncovering those steps
where the ancient people,
including probably we don't know exactlywhere the blind man went or which steps
(32:28):
he was on or whatever,
but it's not very far from the blind or
able to see. And you think about that'snot just right. I mean, you know this,
but maybe all our listeners don't.
It's not just about a manbeing able to have physical
sight. It's aboutspiritual blindness, right,
(32:50):
John and the gospel ofJohnny's bringing that out,
and there's people who are spirituallyblind. Paul's going to talk about that.
And who has the abilityto give spiritual sight?
It's the one who can give physical sight,
and it's not just a random miracleeither. It's also Isaiah 35.
The lame will leap and the blind willsee, we'll see. And Jesus is the one,
(33:13):
he's the fulfillment of thehope of Isaiah who's going to,
and now to accomplish it. I mean, Jesus,
he could just wave a wandor whatever, and okay,
all the spiritually blind can see,
but they can't withoutwhat Isaiah talks about,
the atonement of their sin.And so Isaiah speaks about,
(33:36):
it's the same individualwho's the rightful king,
who's going to be the sufferingservant. And Jesus, I mean,
he knows all this,
and he's presenting himself as that
one who will suffer forthem in order to restore
sight to the blind. Yeah.
(33:57):
So I got off there from the poolof Siloam and the excavations.
That's amazing. And then tosee it from the beginning,
like this tiny hole that the Lord allowedyou to be there long enough to see
from this little hole to theentire site being uncovered,
most people in this world donot have that opportunity.
And.
The fact that you got to see that andthen take pictures of it so that you can
(34:18):
share what the world is, is.
Incredible.
How many times have we been in Israelwhere we're going by something maybe in
the Jerusalem area orup in the Galilee area,
and you look over and you seea mound or something, you.
Think.
I wonder what's there? Is that a,is that a city who lived there?
Is this something that comes straightout of scripture and then later on you
find out it is.
(34:40):
Yeah. That's amazing. Oh my gosh. Makesme want to go back to Israel right now.
So we've been focusing more on theeducational piece of you living in Israel
and taking photographs there.
But let's just shift a little bit toraising your family there in Israel.
Not right. There is a challenge.
How many children do you have and whatages were they when you were there?
(35:00):
And when you look back at that time,
is there anything that just brings asmile to your heart when you think about
it?
So all credit to my wifeKelly. That's right.
And it started off, we were holdinghands, walking through the old city and
or we were a little more circumspect.
(35:20):
So maybe we didn't hold hands in theold city, but when we were dating,
that's right, fig, figurativelyfor that. So Burning Romance,
and then our honeymoon, literally, I mean,
we got married and it was 12 days later,
we were on a plane movingto Israel and to study
there. And she worked.
She served me working in the office ofthe school there while I was getting my
(35:45):
graduate degree.
And then a few years afterthat where we jumped on a plane
again for me to teach at the IEX campus.
And then the Lord was blessed uswith children. So we have five,
three of those childrenwere born in Israel.
One was born while we wereduring our years in Israel,
(36:07):
but during a time we wereback in the States for a bit.
And so it was just wonderful
for a bunch of reasons. So one is,
this may not be the first thing thatwould come to someone's mind who would ask
me, but we were living in acommunity of Jewish believers and IE
(36:27):
students. So our kids grew upon a college campus, very small,
but the college students loved our kids.
I mean,I have pictures now, here's a fun one.
So I have pictures of studentsvisiting us in the hospital when
just after birth, one of them, therewas a girl who came with my brother.
(36:48):
My brother is younger than me,and he had come to study at Iva.
He came to visit to see his nephew,and he brought a girl with him.
And that girl is now my kid's aunt.
So he met his wife.
That's sweet.
Studying in Israel.
That's the neat picture of family before
(37:12):
everybody was related, but.
That's fun.
We had the opportunityof just walking around.
So our little community,a little neighborhood,
it was a most Shah like atkibbutz and just real small.
And so our kids could play and they'dride their little scooter things around
(37:34):
and we'd go on walks.
And so that would be definitelya highlight of raising our kids,
was living there at yah,
in a beautiful communityof Christ followers.
But then another thingthat may be more obvious,
but I never took it for granted,
(37:55):
was just the opportunity to share theland of Israel with my children. Now,
they weren't that old by thetime we left my orders was nine,
but that you can still,I mean, nine, eight.
Oh yeah, you remember.
They do. And so we would goon hikes, we would go camping,
had some really memorable camping trips,
(38:15):
like camping right next tothe Philistine city of Gath.
And that's off the beatentrack, not allowed. That.
Is off the beaten path. Yes.
Go there.
But when you can camp there withyour kids and then go exploring
without a rush, that's onething too, that's always
(38:36):
a challenge when you're teachingguiding students to these sites.
There's never enough time. But whenyou're just camping with your kids,
you got all the time and you want, soyou go and we would go find the moat.
So the Ians, when they werebesieging, the city of Gath,
I didn't know it at the time,
but that later became the subjectof my doctoral dissertation,
(39:00):
The Aian Invasion andOppression of Israel.
So we could go and find the moats and goand look for different features of the
site. Think about David fled to Gaththere, which is kind of crazy. He's like,
Goliath was from Gath goes Goliath.
David goes to find refuge in Gath,and it didn't work out so well.
(39:23):
He's ended up acting like a crazyguy and scratching on the gates.
But a beautiful thing of that ishe wrote several psalms that are
gifts, gifts to the Jewishpeople, to the church.
Psalm 34 57,
I believe in 1 30, 1 42.
(39:43):
And just to live, I mean,
I say this way to live the Bible in away, I mean, it's different that we say,
and I'm very much right. We have tobe faithful, committed to Christ,
submissive to his word. So we live theBible that way no matter where we live.
And I'm living it today byGod's grace from California.
(40:05):
But there's a different way to live theBible when you're just walking through
the places where the eventsoccurred and sharing that with your
wife, with your kids, and.
Oh my gosh. Wow, that's amazing.
That was a wonderful time. A gift from.
The Lord. Wow. Well,beautiful. So your life work,
(40:26):
I mean bible places.com, you'vetaught students for years,
you've led Bible tours.
What kind of feedback are youreceiving from Bible teachers,
professors,
and pastors who are usingyour photos in their courses?
What do you hear from them?
(40:48):
I hear the same thing thatI hear from my students
and students. So both. So at church,
so I teach an adult Bible class,Sunday mornings now 11 years.
We started in Genesis one,
and then the next week wasGenesis two and Genesis three.
And we are now 11 years in.And yesterday was Psalm 77.
(41:10):
And every week now, not initially,
I didn't have the screensin place, but in the last,
I dunno, six, seven years, whatever,every week we have pictures.
And no matter what it is, I mean Psalm 77,
you might read it over and think whatpictures are there? But there are.
And so the feedback thatand I get and it, okay,
(41:33):
so if you're teachingfor a decade or whatever,
your brothers and sisters aren't goingto say the same thing to you week after
week. But they've said it enough timeover the years, my college students do.
So I'm teaching freshmen,they're landing here on Saturday,
brand new crop of incomingfreshmen and signing up for Old
(41:53):
Testament survey or New Testamentsurvey. And we got big screens,
and I'm putting the pictures up thereand they're just saying like, wow,
real places. And it'snot all brown and dead.
I can get the perspective, and
I'll hear from teachersand pastors in the US and
(42:16):
outside the US who havethat same experience
where eyes are open, and if apicture's worth a thousand words,
you can just visualize it.I mean, description is good.
And you probably remember GeorgeAdam Smith. I mean, the guy was,
he was the wordsmith, and hecould just bring out the land.
(42:39):
This is in the 1870sor something like that.
And back in the day beforephotography was very common.
It would come about 1890s.
There would be a lot more blackand white photo books or whatever.
But he could bring theland to life with words.
And some of us aren't asgood with words or whatever.
And so I just love having a pictureto, not one picture, but 10, 20,
(43:02):
whatever pictures that Ineed to help them to see
where it happened. I can describeShiloh with words, but when you see it,
or I can talk about the Mount of Olive,
but they're going to make the mountaintoo high. Or if they're from Nebraska,
Mount of Olives is going to be too highif from Colorado or it's going to be too
low or whatever like that. Yeah, that'sright. But here we just, there it is.
(43:26):
And so I'm encouraged. That'sjust something that I've loved.
And there's a team of us that shouldmake that clear here that, I mean,
I started off, I did most of the workfor the first decade or something,
but in the last decade,it's been a team of friends,
scholars,
guys with their doctorates living inNebraska and Japan and Israel and other
(43:48):
places around and collaborating,and they just know a lot of things,
I don't know. And helpingto build photo collections.
We're building photo collections nowthat illustrate the Bible book by book.
So Matthew Mark, I mean,chapter. That's awesome.
And here's a big advantage for that.
It's just easy to find what you'relooking for. If you know your text,
(44:13):
you just jump right into the book of Acts.
If you're teaching Paul'sfirst journey or whatever,
you don't have to go toTurkey, Greece, Italy,
or whatever for Paul's journeys.It's all just laid out there for you.
And so with the help of my just
amazing team,
(44:35):
we're trying to create photocollections that are just super useful,
serious Bible students.But then pastors, teachers,
Bible translators, Bibletranslators love to, oh.
I bet they do.
So they're thinking about howto put this into words best.
They can choose the words in the targetlanguage that best suits the reality.
(44:57):
Wow. Todd, thank you somuch for your work for bible
places.com and for your workat the Masters University
for your Bible tours. Joanne, I feellike we need to go on a Bible tour and.
Start over. That's exactly.
Right. We do. We've done,it's crazy. Over a hundred,
but it is just,
(45:17):
we could just sit and listen to you allday hearing things that we didn't know.
That's right.
And here, we've been thereso many times. So I know.
Joanne.
You have a last question?
Yeah. I guess last question. I mean,your work is incredible. It's tangible,
it's visual.
So all these decades that you've beendoing this living there and then taking
students there,
what legacy do you hope to leavebehind with bible places.com,
(45:40):
not just with the future generationsof students and educators,
but also with your family?What kind of legacy, Todd,
do you hope to leave behind?
Yeah, the Lord is good.
I want people to love the Lord.
And you love the Lord byknowing the Lord, the Lord,
by knowing his word.
(46:01):
And his word is not somephilosophical treatise.
It is revelation in space and time.
It is history and geography.
And so you don't need, Imean, I would say to people,
you don't need to go to Israel,
John Calvin or my family.
(46:23):
We were just talking about Augustinelast night and doing a little reading
together or whatever, but theynever went to the Bible lands.
And people today,
I mean brothers and sistersin my church who are deeply
committed to the Lord.
Some of them are older and they're notgoing to be able to go or whatever.
(46:43):
So I wouldn't want to takeanything away from them.
But I would say that there's many who
I mean are going to be able to go. So Iwant to encourage that. And my students,
and it's nice. I teach at a schoolwhere I can say, we have our own campus.
You don't even have to transferbecause you just spend the semester.
(47:05):
It's a longer commuteto get. That's right.
But I want that historyand geography to feed
theology.
I want that to see theland so they can love the
Lord. I want them tosee that this is true.
This is not fairytale.It's not Book of Mormon.
(47:30):
It is God working in time and space.
He's working out his planto, and here's a big thing.
My students are going to get tired ofhearing me say this in my Old Testament
class starting up.It's very soon.
But God did this to bless allthe families of the world.
That's his design, that's hisintention. And so if I can,
(47:54):
through teaching in theclassroom photographs,
which back up that teaching photographswhich are used by others who
are committed to the Lord andwant people to love his word
for the blessing of the nations,
for the faithfulness of the church,
the believers who are sharingthe gospel with their neighbors,
(48:18):
Gentile and Jewish,
and leading to the salvation of many,
including God's chosenpeople in anticipation of the
day,
when the Lord returns to findfaithful believers who are
just in love with him,
who've been good stewards ofwhat has been entrusted to us
(48:40):
for more faithful serviceof the Lord in his
kingdom. Forget me.
Let me be the footnote orwith a forgotten footnote.
But if some of what I do canlead to the eternal glory of the
Lord Jesus, then that's the legacy I seek.
Wow. Amen. And that's what you're doing,my friend. Beautiful answer. Thank you.
(49:03):
Wow.
Well.
It's been a pleasurehaving you with us today.
And just thank you for all thework you've done over the years and
started with a littlecamera, off a paper route,
and look at where it's gone All overthe world. And thank you for your help.
We were privileged in our ministryand charted ministries to buy.
(49:23):
I think the whole collection,I think is what we bought,
or as close as what's allfor sale at this point.
And our team is so excitedabout how that's just going to help them illustrating
things as they're talking in churchesand all kinds of different things.
So thank you for what you've done,and you've made Israel come to life.
(49:44):
There's a lot of people that willnever get to go, like you said,
but they'll feel like they've beenthere by going through the Bible.
That's right.
The whole Pictionary thatyou have on bible places.com.
So thank you for your work.
Thank you for teaching the word ofGod faithfully for all these years,
and just a privilege tohave you on the program.
Well, thank you, Tom.Thank you, Joanne. I mean,
(50:05):
for your faithfulness to the Lord,
many years running in Israel and outof Israel and other places we've talked
about where you've brought Bibles and just
for your faithful serving the Lord, justa blessing to me and to many thank you.
Amen.
Thank you, Todd. Thank you. Well,this has been a fun conversation. It.
Sure.
Has.
Maybe we can go to Israel togethersomeday. That's right. That'd be so fun.
(50:27):
That's right.
I'd love that. We too. Well, God blessyou. You, Todd. God bless you. Thank you.
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