February 28, 2024 • 59 mins
Ever wonder how a melody can unlock a memory or a rhythm can help someone relearn how to walk? This is the magic that music therapist Joanna Ostrander brings to the table, and she unraveled the mysteries of neurologic music therapy with us, offering an intriguing look at music's impact on the brain. As our conversation weaved through Joanna's transition from performance to therapeutic practice, it became clear that music is not just an art form; it's a bridge to personal growth and a way to help individuals realize their intrinsic value.
It's one thing to talk, but another to truly communicate, and that's where our discussion turned enlightening. We tackled what it means to be an effective communicator, scrutinizing everything from the responsibility of clarity to the art of adaptation when the message isn't getting through. From the curious ways our brains forge connections to the potency of techniques like mirroring and labeling, we've peeled back the layers of interaction to reveal vulnerability as more than just a condition—it's a deliberate tool in the dance of dialogue.
The conversation didn't just stop at communication; we also celebrated those moments where music transcends genre, where an electric violinist or a pop star can break molds and delight hard rock fans. The episode was a symphony of ideas, from the therapeutic power of music in speech recovery to the way personal quirks, like a preference for Captain Picard over Captain Kirk, inform our perspectives on leadership and vulnerability. Get ready to be inspired, informed, and maybe even a little entertained as we harmonize the realms of music therapy and communication.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
The UnCommon Communicator (00:00):
Hello everybody and welcome to this
week's Throwback episode fromepisodes 14 and 15 of the
Uncommon Communicator Podcast.
This week I have sewn the twoepisodes that never should have
been split into two episodeswith Joanna, so please listen in
and enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I want to talk right down to earth and a language
that everybody here can easilyunderstand.
The UnCommon Communicat (00:23):
Welcome to the Uncommon Communicator
Podcast, where we bringenlightenment to the topic of
communication.
Are you ready to take ownershipof your conversations?
Are you looking to possess theskills to navigate and
facilitate conversations to amutual understanding?
What are you waiting for?
Grab your growth mindset andlet's go.
Welcome to the UncommonCommunicator.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Your host, james Gable and Brandon Thompson are
here to bring you enlightenmentto the topic of communication.
Good afternoon, james.
The UnCommon Communicator (00:53):
Good afternoon, brandon.
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I'm doing, alright, it's Saturday afternoon and I've
been a bit of a bum like allday.
The UnCommon Communicator (00:59):
How is that different than last
Saturday?
Last Saturday I had to think Iworked beforehand.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Oh, did you?
I don't know.
It all boils together Anywho.
More importantly, we are onceagain joined by a third party
this week.
This is actually kind of cool,because the third party is
actually sitting like right nextto us.
On my left hand side, yourright hand side, but would you
create to introduce said thirdparty James?
The UnCommon Communi (01:19):
Absolutely so.
Today we've got JoannaOstrander with us.
She has been a longtime familyfriend.
We've known probably of eachother.
I know your sister probablylonger, 10, 15 years, maybe it's
been a while.
So I have asked Joanna to joinour podcast today.
Joanna, please introduceyourself.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Hi, I'm Joanna.
Obviously I'm a music therapistand I have a lot to say about
music and how to use that incommunication.
The UnCommon Communicator (01:53):
Yes, you do so.
When we were talking at NewYear's, I just started asking
some different questions and Iwas my jaw was dropped.
It's just amazing what you cando in the whole topic of
communication through music, sothat's one thing that we really
want to delve into today.
So let's back up a little bit.
Your degree is in music, sotell us more about your music
(02:16):
career.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, so I studied well.
I actually started out as aperformance and ed major in
music and found out about musictherapy when I was a junior in
college and immediately thoughtoh my gosh, this is amazing,
this is the coolest thing ever,this is what I have been waiting
for, and so I dropped ed,dropped performance, got my
(02:41):
degree and then went to CSU forMaster of Music in Music Therapy
.
One of the cool things aboutCSU is that they do training in
neurologic music therapy, whichis it's a specific set of styles
and methods that are evidencebased practice in music therapy.
(03:06):
There are actually a lot ofdifferent specializations in
music therapy there's I don'tknow that I could actually name
them all, so I'm not going totry.
The UnCommon Communicator (03:17):
It's all now or we stop.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
But there are, but they all have slightly different
approaches and so a lot oftimes there's different focus,
and one of the interestingthings about neurologic music
therapy is that the focus is onhow music interacts in the brain
, and that has always beenreally fascinating for me.
I love neuroanatomy and thosewere some of my just most
(03:40):
fascinating classes at CSU andit was just really really
interesting learning about howthe brain works and what happens
if there's damage ordysfunction, and so it's always
something that's been reallyinteresting to me that just
seems like a fascinating career.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Is that Chris Voss brain size, Complete brain size?
Right yeah, Chris.
The UnCommon Communicator (04:01):
Voss is stealing from the science
now and since we've now shiftedour podcast.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
So we talked about what Chris Voss does, and Chris
Voss applies to science right,because he even brought up the
study where someone had a damageto their was it frontal cortex
or something like that and theywere not able to make decisions
because their logical brain wasimpacted or that was I'd have to
go back to, really I'd have torevisit.
Chris Voss has never split thedifference to the book that we
have all not read, thateverybody thoroughly enjoyed or
(04:30):
listened to the entire podcaston and is probably like no,
brandon, you're wrong, it wasn'tthe frontal cortex, it was the
occipital lobe and anyway.
The UnCommon Communicator (04:39):
We like brain science, but we don't
talk about the brain parts itwas probably the prefrontal
cortex.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Okay, so I got the frontal part right, you did.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
So the prefrontal cortex does a lot of things with
our executive functions.
So, things like being able toplan and organize and follow
directions and things like that.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Oh, okay, dude, if it's planning and following
directions, I got somethingwrong.
Something went wrong.
The UnCommon Communicator (05:02):
Not sure what we always want.
To start out with.
What do you want the world toknow about Joanna?
It doesn't have to be workingAnything you want.
What do you want the world toknow?
The world's on the scene rightnow.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Well, world, I really hope that you know everyone.
You know what I want to tellpeople.
What I want to share is not somuch about me, but just kind of
one of the ways that I see theworld, and one of the reasons
that I am able to do as well atmy job as I do is because every
(05:37):
person to me is beautiful insome way, and so, even people
that drive me crazy, I can findsomething beautiful about them,
and so what I really hope toimpart to the people that I'm
working with is that they havebeauty in themselves and that
it's there and somebody isseeing it, and that it exists.
(06:03):
They're important, they'reexquisite and unique and
interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
To help somebody else view the same value that you
see in them.
Yeah, quality.
Yeah, it's a great way to lookat the world.
The UnCommon Communicator (06:16):
So what bugs Joanna then about
people?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I was like do you want to list alphabetically,
categorically, chronologically,take your pick.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, that's a really long list.
No, there's always going to bethings.
You know, like we're all human,you know there's all sorts of
things.
The UnCommon Communicato (06:34):
That's a great no, you have a great
outlook on life and I didn'tmean to put you on the spot
without me just because I thinkyou are one of the nicest people
I know.
And I'm like when you just saidwhen somebody bugs you, you
know how to.
You know figure out the beautyin them, which is just an
amazing ability to do that.
And that's why I thought doesanything bug Joanna?
I bet it does oh yes.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
But you figured out the way.
That's probably why I'm so goodat that, because there are a
lot of things that drive mecrazy, and so I have to go.
Okay, wait a second, though Iget least this All right.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
That's actually.
That's a really good way tolook at the world.
I'm working with a coworkerright now and she can be very
frustrating.
It's and I think I see the samekind of thing you do, where I
see the value in the effort thatshe's putting in and I don't
know what it is, but thecommunication is not clicking
and things are not sticking theway we need it to.
(07:27):
However, I do see the effortand I need her to understand
that the effort is reallyappreciated, but also understand
that everybody's gears begetting grinded right now, Like
you know what I mean.
It's just it's like we work inhere, we do win the thing and we
appreciate the effort.
Thank you, I'll be quicker,That'd be great, but anyway
what's question number two,James?
The UnCommon Communicato (07:48):
What's a significant moment of
enlightenment that has to dowith communication, Like where's
an aha moment where you thathad in regards to communication?
You can tie it to work.
You can tie it to just ingeneral, like when you knew
communication happened.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I've been staring at this question all week and
Should we change this question?
The UnCommon Communicator (08:16):
No, no, it's a beautiful question.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
It's just hard because I only can I only pick
one.
The UnCommon Communicator (08:21):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Oh, can you pick one?
No, I mean like do I have to?
The UnCommon Communicator (08:25):
only pick one no pick five.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
It's just that communication is such an
interesting thing and there havebeen, I mean, I don't know that
I can necessarily describe aspecific instance that I have in
mind, but it's just it'sinteresting to see how, how
communication happens or doesn'thappen, and like how different
people respond, and I,communication is just something
(08:53):
that's so integral to everything, like we have to communicate to
get our needs met, we have tocommunicate for, you know,
enjoyment and belonging, and soit's just it's.
It's a really hard question, butone of the things that I think
(09:15):
I really find the most importantwith communication is listening
, and it's something that I'mnot always great at, because it
takes a lot of effort to reallyactively listen to people and it
takes a lot of effort to, youknow, notice, even listen to
ourselves into, like noticeactually how we're communicating
, and that maybe people can'thear what happens in our head in
(09:37):
between, what we tell them.
I was, I was talking actuallyjust this week with someone and
we were having kind of aback-and-forth and I was
explaining about something andthe question that she asked me
at the end I was kind of like,were you listening at all?
(10:01):
And so it was kind of that,that moment of.
Instead of like the a-hacommunication happened, it was
more of like no communicationdid not happen and and it was
kind of- beautiful because I waslike okay, so was this my fault
?
did I not give full enoughsentences?
Did I not explain it in theright order?
(10:23):
But there was that moment whenthey were able to ask a
clarifying question, that thatgave me a chance to go.
Oh wait, they don't understandand so I.
It was kind of this moment ofthat was interesting.
I really thought that I hadsaid all of that, but you know,
(10:43):
maybe the order I set it in oryou know, making sure that the
other person is ready for theinformation you're more likely
to to have the communicationactually occur well, and that's
you nailed it.
The UnCommon Communicator (10:57):
I mean, you were like I don't know
but that's and that's whatmakes you the uncommon
communicator, because that wehave two tenets.
We talk about enlightenment,which is what you just said.
You have to know.
It got you all the way throughthat conversation before you're
like hey, didn't get it right.
And and the second part, whichis the ownership part that we
talk about.
You immediately took thatownership part, which is neat,
(11:20):
because a lot of people are like, ah, you weren't listening and
it's, it's great.
I always look inward too.
It's like how could I have doneit differently?
But on the other side they'renot getting it and it's not
always our fault, but I believeit's our ownership to say I'm
gonna word this a different way,clarifying questions, those
kind of things.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I think that's a great question, great answer
well, and part of it, too, iseven if you have these skills,
that doesn't mean that you'reusing them all the time and that
doesn't mean you can use themall the time or you want to use
them all the time.
It's okay to take a pass yes,that's gonna happen sometimes
too, but it's just.
It's interesting how thatoccurs, though.
(12:01):
That just the Just that.
Sometimes communicationsometimes it's not our fault,
sometimes there's nothing wecould have done.
We tried to give them all theinformation, we tried to wait
until they were ready, and stillthey're not going to get it.
And I was talking to my sisterrecently and about some training
(12:23):
that I had in high school aboutdoing lessons with students and
teenagers.
One of the things that theytalked about is that sometimes
someone is not going to be readywhen you initially present the
information.
Sometimes they might need tohear it multiple times before
(12:43):
they are ready, before they areable to actually go.
Oh, oh that's what it is.
You know you might be the thirdperson and they might need
seven before they really areable to take it in, before
they're really able tounderstand and recognize what it
(13:06):
is that is being taught.
The UnCommon Communicator (13:08):
Well , it's neat how much you know
about the brain science, becausewe love the brain science.
But sometimes you make thatconnection with people on first
word and it's just so stillstrange to me that you can have
that connection, thatunderstanding, that
communication immediately withsome people and others.
(13:28):
You're never going to get thereLike you're going to keep
battling to try to figure thatout, and it's just.
Those are the differences inhow our brains are interacting
and trying to communicate.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well, and it's funny, because it's not always
necessarily, you know, it's notnecessarily just this person.
It might be this situation, itmight be timing, it might be any
number of things that affecthow we communicate.
The UnCommon Communicator (13:55):
And it can change in a snap of a
finger, kind of not a very goodsnap.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Says he's not a very good snap, so not a problem.
The UnCommon Communicator (14:04):
But it's sometimes you think you're
having that communication andthen sometimes you realize that
it just stopped too.
And why does that happen?
That's why I'm fascinated bycommunication in general,
because it just seems to me it'sa puzzle.
And I'm a problem solver.
I love solving problems, andwhen you're seeing that those
situations are going on, I wantto go solve it.
(14:25):
And you know, one of these daysI'll figure out the rubik's
cube.
But to solve those puzzlesgives you just I don't want to
say an upper hand, becausethat's not what I'm shooting for
.
I'm not shooting for an upperhand, but I want to have an
advantage to be able tocommunicate to people, and I
want to have those kind of toolsand effectiveness.
There you go.
That sounds better.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
We can't say I don't want to have an upper hand and
say I have an advantage.
The UnCommon Communicato (14:50):
That's the same words.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
There was one time you were taking me like no, that
was the exact same words really.
I was like yeah, but it didn'tsound right, so that's just bad.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Communication effectiveness is very important.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
It's very important.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
So it's interesting that you mentioned that, though,
because there's a lot ofdifferent things that can create
those barriers.
Right, you know, if we use aword that is triggering to
someone, in either a good way ora bad way, that could stop the
communication.
You know, maybe you mentionedsomething that you know let's
squirrel.
You know, it could just besomething that distracts them,
(15:27):
it could be something thatupsets them.
You might use a word that theydon't know, and instead of
asking you to explain it, theymight just go well, whatever.
They obviously don't want me tounderstand, and they have shut
down.
So it can be any number ofthings.
And, of course, all of us havethese little devices that are
like built in distractions thatwe carry around with us now, too
(15:48):
, so that doesn't help either.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Okay, goldfish brands .
Man, I'm telling you sourced.
The UnCommon Communicat (15:54):
Brandon , do you want to talk about our
third question?
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Well, so we actually kind of talked about the third
question just a little bitbefore we started recording.
But so the third question iswhat's like a communication tool
, Like what's your favoritecommunication tool that you use?
I asked Jesse aboutvulnerability.
When we asked this question, Iwas like Jesse, do you think
vulnerability is a tool?
And it's like it's notnecessarily a tool, but it's a
condition We've talked about,like our different communication
tools.
Right, We've talked aboutmirroring, labeling, not
(16:20):
rephrasing.
Well, rephrasing.
The UnCommon Communi (16:21):
Accusation .
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Accusation not it's that kind of thing and obviously
you're going to have differentterminology for this kind of
thing but, like, what's a,what's one of the communications
tools that either A like youcan use in the job, like if
everyone that's using a job allthe time, like when they're
using your personal life, butwhat's something that you like
do on a regular basis.
Like you know, this is the one,this is my go to, this is my
like the most.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I have probably three that I like the most.
So obviously I use music a lotas a tool in my job.
I don't always use it as likeliteral communication, but I use
it as a way to facilitatecommunication, because sometimes
I'm using it to help createspeech.
Like, sometimes if somebody isis having difficulty being able
(17:03):
to speak fluently, or somebody'shaving difficulty actually
getting their motor skills tocreate the right sounds to
create coherent, clear speech,then sometimes we use songs,
sometimes we use like musicalgames and things like that to
help practice those sounds or tohelp, you know, get somebody to
(17:26):
be triggered to speak.
So I don't know if you've evernoticed, but if somebody sings
part of a song and then theystop, suddenly you kind of want
to fill in the next word.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah.
No, that's a bun on the truth,Right, as long as you know the
words yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
It works on everyone.
So it works really great ifyou're trying to like create
that speech.
So sometimes it's about makingit something that's really
over-learned so that people wantto say it.
But if you go around and youlike start singing a song that
everybody knows, I mean here inthe US, take me out to the ball
(17:59):
game.
Most people know that song.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I was like you have to finish it if you don't.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Right, yeah, right.
So if somebody was to stopmidway through, you'd probably
just naturally produce the rest,either in your head or out loud
.
So using things like that canbe really great for creating
communication.
But one of the interestingthings about it is that when
you're not dealing with a speechdisorder, when instead you're
(18:24):
dealing with someone who iswanting to express themselves
but they're feeling inhibited orthey're feeling shy, they're
feeling like they don't knowwhat to say, sometimes creating
that kind of space, that sort offeels like a gap in music that
you want to fill in withsomething, can get people to say
(18:46):
something, and it's often whatthey want to say.
But it helps reduce theinhibition and so they're able
to produce it, even though it'slike, oh, this is scary, you
know.
It's less scary because yourbody's like I want to do
something, I want to createsomething, I want to make it.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
I want to put it out there.
They produce it on a reflex,not necessarily on like an act,
Like okay, that's cool yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Also, I really like doing songwriting and
improvisation with my clientsand so using the music that way
to be able to express yourself,be able to.
You know, like I'm feelingreally aggravated today, so I'm
just kind of like bang on thisdrum as loud as I can.
Or, you know, I want to createsomething beautiful or I want to
(19:31):
write some words that aretotally nonsense because, like
I'm frustrated.
You know it's there's, there'sa lot you can do with using the
music for self-expression,either verbally or nonverbally.
So that's one of the tools thatI really like to use.
Another one of the tools that Ireally like to use is listening,
and I feel like, as far ascommunication goes, that is the
(19:54):
most important piece.
If we're not listening, we'regoing to miss a lot and our
communication might not getacross because we might have
missed something that isimportant in being able to
create the communication in theway that the other person is
going to be able to receive.
So that's a really importantpiece as well, and one of the
(20:15):
things that I it's funnyactually it was a client who
told me this and I at first Ithought it was really weird, but
they, they told me I wasdisarming and they kind of said
it in a way like I don't know ifI should trust you, and I feel
(20:38):
like that's a tool that I use alot too.
I I am relativelynon-threatening, in appearance,
in mannerisms, in the way that Iexpress myself, and so because
of that, I think a lot of peopleare willing to speak to me.
I'm one of those people that arandom person will just start
(20:58):
talking to me in the grocerystore or at a bus stop or
anywhere, and I think it's it'spartially because I listen
actively and partially because Ilook like I do that, I I you
know.
I look around, I smile, I tendto actually look at people and
(21:20):
make eye contact and a lot ofpeople they look away, they're
buried in their phones, they're,they're doing something to
actively avoid, and I don't dothat.
I look around.
I want to see the world aroundme.
I want to, you know, notice howbeautiful the mountains look
today, even though I saw themyesterday.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
No, I was like it's nice, it's nice to be like not
Czech.
They're still there, we're good.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
And so I think that that quality that I have, that
I'm able to even even peoplethat are really gruff and have a
really tough exterior they tendto soften around me because I
I'm just like, okay, sure what?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
What's going on.
I was like, can you get somequality interactions out of
those kinds of things too?
I had a.
I had.
There was a lady this is thisstill to this day is like it
kind of blows my mind a littlebit, because I ran into her
several different times.
I'm assuming she lived in theWestminster area, but she has a
fake leg and I was.
I was coming home fromMetropolitan State University of
Denver now We'll fill you inafter the story.
(22:23):
We'll fill you in why that it'simportant to add the university
section to that.
But and we were, we hopped onthe same bus and she was sitting
on the road across from me orwhatever, and I was looking
around.
I think it was like afterschool I was done reading a book
.
I didn't want to look at a book, I didn't want to look at a
phone, I kind of just wanted tolearn.
So I looked around, we made eyecontact and she just started
talking the whole way, right,and it's like a 20-some-minute
(22:44):
bus ride, and she just kepttalking and then and then I got
off and I guess she also got offat the same stop.
She just kept talking, we kepttalking, and I get all the way
to like the parking garage stillright there with me still
talking, doing the whole thing,and I get like pretty much to my
car before I think it eitherclicks with her that like, hey,
(23:04):
homie, like I got to go dosomething now, like seven, eight
o'clock at night, like I'mabout to go like turn in so I
can wake up at five o'clock inthe morning and go do this again
.
But before she like understood,she's like oh, yeah, I should
go my way and you can go yourway.
Yeah, it blew my mind.
It was one of the it's innocent.
Like I wasn't.
Look, I was not the most activein the conversation, but I also
(23:27):
wasn't there to be like no, Ineed you to buzz off right now.
Yeah, but yeah, so it's kind ofcrazy.
The UnCommon Communicator (23:32):
But so why, is it important?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
that.
I said university in the labelof the college.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Because I went to the same school as Brandon for my
undergrad degree and it was notcalled the same thing back then.
It was called the MetropolitanState College of Denver, mscd.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
MSCD, not MSU no.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
And they called themselves Metro.
So.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Metro is still a bit of a label.
Were you guys, road runnersstill?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, of course we were.
Okay, the road runners stillare.
Do you want to know why they'reroad runners?
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Because we had to run across Colfax and the different
streets.
Yeah, Because, we didn't see it.
Yeah, I love that you know that.
Oh, is that where we were?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
No, that's where we were, so it used to actually
have streets through the collegeand they had to cross Colfax.
So now a lot of those areactually park now, so it's like
grass with curbs, which is verycool, I think.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
It's kind of like a cool little urban.
But yeah, that's exactly why Iwas at Starbucks.
I was working at the Starbucksat the college campus when I
discovered that, because someonementioned the Starbucks on the
other side of the college, therewas a Starbucks.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Oh my gosh, now one came later.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
So when you took me to university, because it wasn't
until MSCD that that one showedup.
But yeah, needless to say,that's what we do not have a
Starbucks.
That's what we're calledroadrunners.
It's a good time, man.
I was a big fan of the school,or am a big fan of the school,
but it's still called Metro.
I was like they still call itMetro, it's not the same thing,
but MSU.
It's weird to hear the otherindustry.
The UnCommon Communicator (24:56):
Yeah , you give me the same look.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
So you Well, we sometimes call it Metro State.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Okay, yeah, see, and we just, it's just Metro now.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, it was usually Metro, but sometimes it was
Metro State.
Just to no, we're not talkingabout that Metro, we're talking
about this Metro there you go.
The UnCommon Communicator (25:14):
So let's move on to our last
question, which is what impactdo you want to leave on this
world?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I am really hoping that whatever net impact I have
on the world is a positive one.
I really want to leave a fewmore flowers, a few happier
people, a few more smiles andhopefully not cause more pain
(25:42):
than happiness.
There's a poem by BessieAnderson Stanley called Success,
and one of the things that shementions is finding your niche
and accomplishing your task, butit also kind of outlines
(26:05):
whatever that is whether it's animproved poppy or a A smiling
child that there are differentways that we impact the world
around us and different waysthat we measure success.
Bam.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
That's a better answer than I would have given.
The UnCommon Communicator (26:22):
So it's amazing that's a tough
question the impact questionwhen the first time I had to
answer it.
That's a very tough one.
To answer Jesse, who we stolethis from, we keep going to
refer into him.
He's my godfather of podcasting.
He had a hard time.
He's like that's a toughquestion.
It's always a tough question,but what we talk about is owning
(26:44):
our impacts and being moreintentional towards it.
And I'll tell you right now,your net is way above.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
You're doing great.
The UnCommon Communicator (26:55):
Your net impact is amazing for what
you leave for this world.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
One thing I want to mention, and you can totally cut
this point out.
That is the question that I hadthe least trouble answering.
Oh, phenomenal that's awesomeBecause it's something that I've
thought about a lot in how Iwork with my clients, why I work
with my clients, and it'ssomething that I've had to talk
with clients about about whatgoals do you have for yourself,
(27:23):
what is it that you want toaccomplish?
And so it's unfair to make themdo it if I don't do it too.
The UnCommon Communicato (27:28):
That's amazing, Joanna.
Clearly you have plenty more tosay and we're going to catch
the rest of it next time on theUncommon Communicator Podcast.
Welcome to the UncommonCommunicator Podcast.
I am your host, James Gable,and my co-host, Brandon Thompson
, here to bring youenlightenment to the topic of
(27:49):
communication.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Hello James, Good afternoon.
We are once again joined by JoeAnna Ostrander Ostrander.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Ostrander.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Ostrander Okay, so you got to tell everybody the
story of the last day, because Ithink it's incredibly important
that everybody either A says itproperly, knows who you are
properly, or B just like,understands the story, because
that was a whole moment that wehad and I butchered it horribly.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
So my grandmother always pronounced our name
Ostrander.
I have met other people whopronounce it Ostrander, who also
have the same last name, butit's actually I didn't tell you
this part, and I want to tellyou this part because I think
it's really fun.
The name sounds German.
The people who first had thename actually were Dutch and the
(28:36):
name actually originated in theUS because the naming system at
that time was actuallypatronymic.
So you were named for yourfather, so Peter Peterson as
opposed to having like a lastname that follows you.
And so after coming to theUnited States, peter Peterson or
(29:00):
Peter Peterson, and then hedecided that he wanted to name,
have his last name be where hisfather was from.
So it was Fawnnorsstrand, andthen eventually, I think you
know it gets squished togetherFawnnorsstrand, vonostrand and
then Ostrander.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Dang dude.
Pretty cool.
What's in a name man?
There's a lot.
The UnCommon Communicat (29:24):
There's a lot in the name.
I was like I want for Brandon.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
My parents picked Brandon Thompson.
I didn't think that wasanything too crazy.
I was like we're Irish on mydad's side, so we'll figure that
out as it goes.
Anywho, thank you for onceagain coming back and talking
about communication.
We appreciate you having mehere Great to be here.
The UnCommon Communicator (29:42):
Let's talk about the neurological
music.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
So there's a lot of different ways that our brains
process communication, and oneof the interesting things about
using music is that there are alot of areas of our brain that
light up when we interact withmusic and so because of that,
even when somebody has damagedone area and something's, you
(30:09):
know, not working the way thatit should, often there are other
brain areas that areinteracting similarly with the
music and so you can kind ofbypass the damaged area
sometimes.
But the interesting thing isthat it's not just with
communication.
A lot of neurologic musictherapy is about physical
(30:31):
changes too.
So things like being able toattend to areas of neglect and
you know, understand that thereis another side to my body that
I'm not paying attention to orregaining motor control after a
stroke or after damage, andthere's a lot of different
(30:55):
techniques that work that wayand it's really cool to see them
, just to actually see it work,because it's so funny to watch
somebody move, and somethinglike walking is intrinsically
rhythmic.
It's a motion that we do thathas a pattern to it, that has a
(31:18):
timing to it, and when you addrhythm, when you add music to it
, it can help the brain to go oh, that's when it's supposed to
happen, and so the brain canlatch onto that rhythm and time
all of the muscles to happen atthe right time.
And so it's really interesting,because some of the studies
(31:40):
that they did for neurologicmusic therapy is it happened at
CSU and it happened with musicstudents.
So these are people who, let'shope, are rhythmic and so even
without the added metronome ormusic added, hopefully they're
already rhythmic.
(32:00):
But what was found was thateven like, every little muscle
was more specifically timed whenthey added the rhythm.
So take that to something whichis a different sort of brain
processing, right?
Something like speech.
We use many parts of our brainwhen we're processing and
(32:22):
creating music, and so ourspeech areas are pretty small
and located in very specificregions of our brain, and
there's a couple of differentareas that, if they're damaged,
can affect speech.
Vernike's area and Broke's areaare often ones that, when
(32:47):
stroke is causing difficultieswith speech, those are often the
areas that are affected, andwith Broke as a phasia, there's
a music therapy technique that'sused to help regain and
recreate fluidity of speech.
With Vernike's, there's not alot we can do because they don't
know that there's a problem andso I know some people like that
(33:08):
, well, what happens withVernike's is they, when somebody
has Vernike's a phasia, theystill have fluidity.
So it's not a rhythmic issue,it's not a production issue,
it's a like table to chairgently, like they don't know
what they're saying, and so, orthey think they know what
(33:29):
they're saying, they're tryingto get across what they're
saying, but it's not coming outin a way that we understand it.
But they don't know that that'swhat's happening.
They think that you're justdumb and can't understand them.
But with Broke as a phasia it'snot coming out.
The part of the brain that istrying to create the speech is
(33:49):
not able to do that, and so theyget stuck.
And so the music can help tomake it possible for the speech
to come out, because we kind ofbypass the area by making it
song.
So you don't make it liketotally sing songy, it doesn't
sound like a musical.
You make it so that it sort ofmatches, how you might say, the
(34:11):
phrase anyway.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
And could you give us an example of that, perhaps
just to help people understandmore?
Because, like when, I think ofmusic.
I'm always like okay, dude, sowe talk in like pop, we're going
to the hip hop.
What's the situation here?
Can you give an example of away that you would work with
that kind of?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
speech.
So it's really cool.
It's actually a techniquethat's been around longer than
our logic music therapy, it'scalled melodic intonation
therapy and it's specificallyused with people with Broke as a
phasia, and it is really coolto see it happen.
So, basically, what you do, youcan test somebody to see if
they're able to do this,basically, if they can answer
(34:53):
questions automatically like,say hey, brandon, how are you
today?
I'm doing all right, so is thathow you always answer that
question?
Speaker 3 (35:03):
It becomes a.
It's a bit of a habitual answer.
It's a reflex.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
So we have certain phrases, certain things that we
say, that are reflexes.
Like if somebody opens the doorfor us, we almost always say
thank you.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Those are reflexes.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
So those are reflexes .
So if you still have that, ifyou can still do the reflex, if
you can sing a song that's afamiliar song like can you sing
happy birthday?
Can you sing you know somethingthat was, you know popular,
that you listen to a zilliontimes, and if somebody's capable
(35:36):
of that, and also they appearfrustrated when they're trying
to communicate and the words arenot coming out, which means
that they notice that there'ssomething that's wrong.
If they, if they meet thosequalifications, then they would
be good candidates for melodicintonation therapy.
So, melodic intonation therapyyou basically, you, basically,
you, basically, you basicallyincrease the prosody of a phrase
(35:58):
so you make it more sing-songy,you make it closer to song than
speech.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
And you teach it to somebody in a way that's very,
very repetitive, that you do itover and over, and over and over
, and it's a very regimentedstyle, so that it's like, very
specific, this is what works.
And then I am getting to it all.
No, you're doing fine.
These answers are fantastic.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
We're learning just like everybody else's, so it's
like important to make sure thatlike everybody be on a safe
page.
Like this is all gobble this upall day.
Trust me.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
So basically, you teach it to them until, like,
it's something that they canproduce on their own, and then
you gradually decrease thesing-songiness.
So it might start out withsomething like I have to go to
the bathroom.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
And then you gradually decrease the prosody,
the musicality of it and make itso that it sounds a little more
normal.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
So it sounds more like I have to go to the
bathroom.
I suppose I have to go to thebathroom, like there's not like
a pace or like a rhythm behindit, right, so you?
Speaker 2 (37:05):
start out with the rhythm and with the song, and
actually a friend in line fromschool she did a study of this
with folks from Japan to see ifit would work with the Japanese
language and her study showedthat it did work, even though
the Japanese language doesn'thave as much prosody as English.
So English goes up and down alot and Japanese kind of stays
(37:29):
it's a little monotone yeah.
But still the difference betweensinging it versus speaking it
was enough.
So she did things likekonichiwa, so it was like making
it so that it's still sustainedtone, so you're still accessing
the singing part, and so it'sone of the neat things about
that is, singing is kind ofbilateral, so even if you have
(37:51):
to do on the one side, you can,still you can still sing Sounds
like an after-exam.
The UnCommon Communicator (37:54):
So a little known fact.
My dad was a stroke victim too,actually, and that was the part
that was the hardest for him.
I didn't realize there's twodifferent types of aphasia, but
the biggest frustration for himwas he knew the words to say and
couldn't do it.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
And that's I didn't For him to be able to work
through that.
The UnCommon Communicator (38:15):
Yeah , and that was all part of that
stroke that he went through andhe ended up doing fairly well
getting through the physicaltherapy.
I wish I had known now whatthey had worked him through, but
it sounds like this is moreeffective way of getting people
to speak better.
What's, I guess, like thesuccess rate?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
I don't know.
I'd have to look up the numberson that.
Make them up.
The UnCommon Communicator (38:39):
We're gonna believe everything you
say We've discussed that as longas it's not a round number.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
We're good to go, that's right so when you find
people that do meet the criteriaand, like you know, you need to
find people that actually Didyou screen them before they make
your program?
So they probably wouldn't end upgetting screened by me.
They probably get referred tomusic therapy by a doctor or by
(39:04):
speech therapist, by physicaltherapist, by somebody at a
hospital, usually.
So and one of the neat thingsabout MIT, it's a speech therapy
technique, but a lot of timesspeech therapists would prefer
that a music therapist do thatwith them, just because, well,
unless the speech therapistlikes to sing.
The UnCommon Communicator (39:27):
Which could happen.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
It does happen and there are speech therapists that
really like using it, but it'sa technique that sometimes
speech therapists are a littlereluctant to use because they
don't use it as often.
Broke as aphasia is not a verycommon.
It's not super common as far asaphasias go, but when it does
happen this is a technique thatdoes work pretty consistently,
(39:50):
and they might not get back allof their speech, but the idea is
to teach them phrases thatwould be useful and would
improve their quality of life.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
So then I'm assuming you're just building the
neurologic like pathways inbetween the brain right, like
you're trying to go for a bypasswhen you're doing this?
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
I was like break down some of the brain science.
I apologize.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Brain science is really fascinating but one of
the fun things.
So you know that I'm sure a lotof people hear that you know
our brain stops making newneurons and things like that.
But it's not actually just socut and dry as that.
We don't tend to regenerate ourbrain tissue as quickly as we
get older, but it's still makingnew connections.
(40:33):
We're always learning newthings, like new connections are
formed every time we have anexperience of any kind, and so
basically you're doing kind ofmultiple things.
So you are probably creatingconnections around the damage,
so things that are kind ofbypassing it, as you said.
(40:55):
But there are times with strokethat it actually kind of
reconnects the tissue.
So it doesn't always happenthat way.
Sometimes it's just making newconnections around it, like when
you have a break or somethingyou know.
Like your body creates new bonetissue around the around the
(41:18):
break.
So it's a little of both.
Like sometimes we do make theconnections again and it does
fix the damage.
It depends on how extensive thedamage is.
And whether it's, you know,created some sort of thing there
that it can't get through.
You know it might have to goaround, okay that's cool.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
So this is the kind of stuff that I've always loved.
That was, james talks about howHelo's brain, science and the
same kind of a boat Like it'skind of strange to think how
much not just really math, buthow much of a processing power
it has, and like what exactly isgoing on, because you never
think about your thinking.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
I guess we are right now.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
I was like yeah, I guess now we're discussing our
thought process, but like, yeah,I always thought that was
incredibly cool.
The UnCommon Communicator (42:02):
It's fascinating in communication
just how different words youknow affect.
We talk a lot about the.
We break it down, not with allthe fancy words that you're
using we don't have them but theanimal brain and then we've got
the logical brain and those arethings that I can understand.
But just the words that we usechange and affect those two
(42:22):
different sides of the brain,which is just fascinating to me.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
I wanted to add that when I was listening to your
podcast the other day, a lot oftimes we've been talking about
the, our reptilian brain, ourmammalian brain, and then you
know the because there'sdifferent.
The mammalian mammals.
Yeah Well, just because justbecause, like, there's different
(42:46):
levels of how our brains haveadapted over time.
So that's cool.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
I just I've.
Yeah, these are things I'venever thought about.
This is the cool stuff.
The UnCommon Communicator (42:59):
He has thought about it because
you've brought up King Kongright.
Oh yeah, what soothes King Kongright?
The animal brain.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
So did you ever have like an aha moment when you're
like I wanted to be a therapist,like where was it?
Kind of just one of those where, like, this fascinates me and I
want to learn more about this.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I think that my whole life led me in that direction.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Growing up, I pretty much always like anytime a
friend of mine had somethingthat was bugging them, I wanted
to listen, I wanted to supportthem.
When I was in well, startingfrom like seven, seven years old
, I started going to this summercamp.
(43:44):
That was an all girls camp andI always went to the week that
the campers in leadershiptraining graduated and I was
like I want to be one of them,and so I went through the
training program myself andbecame a counselor at the camp
(44:04):
and that was, you know, welearned a lot of like leadership
skills.
We learned a lot ofcommunication skills.
We learned a lot of like how toinstruct someone else and we
learned about like teachablemoments.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Hey there, little guy , it's okay.
This is where James is grittinghis teeth right now, because
the dogs have made a couple ofappearances on the podcast and
you hear the and he does theplayback and, if you, I should
record him sometime and you cansee his reactions to when the
dogs go over every episode.
The UnCommon Communicator (44:39):
And you know why we continue to do
it?
Because Meg says my daughter, Iheard McGee.
So if you guys hear that McGeeis purposely in our podcast.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
So it's funny that you bring up counseling, because
you didn't talk aboutcounseling before, but you, you
even bring up how you werelistening to episode two, which
was, I believe, mirrors.
I believe episode two ismirrors and that you use mirrors
and counseling, but what didyou call it?
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Oh yeah, and so there's a lot of like counseling
techniques that I use prettyregularly in my communication
with just average people notactually in my therapy.
The UnCommon Communicator (45:19):
Are we in therapy right now, Brandon
and I?
Speaker 2 (45:21):
do we need?
The UnCommon Communicat (45:22):
therapy .
Speaker 2 (45:24):
I think, everybody does, actually including myself.
Therapists actually often havetherapy to help them process
what they have to deal with.
And here you know, vicarioustrauma is a real thing, so I've
forgotten the question.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
So mirroring as related to counseling.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Right, right Okay.
So there's this counselingtechnique called reflection.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Okay, reflection.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
And when I first heard about it and we first had
to practice it in school, itdrove me crazy, because when I
was in school, what they told usto do was to say back to the
person what they had said.
Now they did not explain thisother part which I'm about to
tell you, which is it's veryhelpful if you use different
(46:12):
words than the person said,because if you just say, oh, you
said this right, the person'sgonna be like yeah, I know.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Is there an echo in here?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
It's gonna drive them crazy, which is what happens to
me.
When somebody echoes back to mewhat I just said, I'm like are
you actually listening or areyou just repeating me?
And I find that so just likegrating and annoying.
But when I found out whatreflection was actually supposed
to be, which is that it is anopportunity for clarification.
(46:45):
So if you tell me something andI say it back to you, but in a
slightly different way so firstof all you feel heard, because
you know that I actuallyunderstood and interpreted what
you said, and then you have anopportunity to go no, the word
you use is not quite what I meanThen that gives an opportunity
(47:05):
to say okay, I didn't quiteunderstand you, I'm close, and
now is your opportunity to tellme no, this is actually what I
mean.
So the neat thing aboutreflection is that it's a tool
that can be used to get moreinformation and to understand
better, because when we use thesame word as someone else, we
(47:27):
think that they understand it inthe same way that we do, but
they don't necessarily.
The UnCommon Communicator (47:32):
So that's almost like a mix between
the mirrors and the labels,because the mirrors is what says
, well, I get got about itbecause it's a Jedi mind trick.
So we love, I love, the Jedistuff.
He's a good guy, but the ideais not necessarily you just said
this One or the other.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
No, I don't, we can have that conversation.
The UnCommon Communicator (47:54):
Don't get him started, but it's.
The idea is and I've seen itwhen I tend to use this a lot
too, when I'm listening topeople just to repeat the last
word always draws out more words.
They feel the need to fill inthe gap for one, and then on the
labeling side is it seems like,and then you're getting that
clarification.
So they're very similarprocesses from the negotiation
(48:16):
techniques to this type ofreflecting.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
If you've never seen it.
James is pretty good about thisbecause I'll get going on some
topic.
Take your pick on either one.
All right, you probably likethe new in the Patriots or
something you know, justsomething along line of those I
was like yeah, he's like oh itseems like you have a lot of
emotions, like you don't run.
I got a lot of emotions on thedifference through Star Wars and
Star Trek.
Absolutely I do.
Kirk or Bacardi got an opinionbecause you should, so you know,
(48:40):
goes on and so forth and he'slike, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Okay, but they're different.
But that doesn't necessarilymean one is better than the
other.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
This is true.
So you have to ask now thatwe've, like, we've arrived at
this bridge, kirk Bacardi,because I gave you my earlier.
I did say I gave the opinion onKanto, so like, and this is
okay.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
So I will tell you I do like both of them.
I think I like Picard more, butpartially because when I first
started watching Star Trek itwas next generation that I
started with, and so Picard wasthe first captain, and so for me
(49:19):
that was like my first exposureto Star Trek.
But also I like that he issophisticated yet vulnerable.
I feel like Kirk is reallyinteresting too.
He's so much emotion, though,and so for me that was like a
little bit too much, like itjust he's.
He's great, he's a reallyinteresting character, but it
(49:41):
just he doesn't doesn't quiteline as true to me.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
I get that.
No, and that's actually sodiscovered because my dad's a
Kirk guy, but my dad also, like,watched from the very beginning
, right.
So it's it's almost as a bit ofa generational thing where,
like, you pick your favorite one.
Also.
Just a quick question, becausethis is a thought that I've had
and this is music related, sothis is kind of on the topic.
When you so obviously coveredbands do covers all the time,
right, so there's the originalsong and then there's a band
(50:06):
cover, my running theory is thatthe one that you've heard first
is the one that you'll likemore, and I don't I don't have
an example where.
So, for I think my favoritecover of all time is probably
Johnny Cash's cover of Nine InchNose is Hurt, right and
objectively I would say it's abetter.
(50:26):
It's a better song than whatNine Inch Nose did, in my
opinion, but even like disturbedAtlantic infusion, I would
rather listen to that one thanthe other, but I heard that
version first.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
shum, well, maybe shout my video so that was a
great example you gave.
I heard the nine inch nailsversion first.
Okay which I do like, and thereare times where that's the one
I want to hear, but I like theJohnny Cash version better.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
Okay, all right, this is.
That was just a pun on aquestion.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Yeah, but it I do think that there is something
about that primacy kind of thingthat, like the first time you
hear something that that's morelikely to be the one that you
think this is what it's supposedto sound like that's the one
that you latch on to.
It's like there's a theoryabout that with Doctor who as
well that the the doctor thatyou started watching.
(51:16):
Doctor who with it's gonna bethe one that you Is the doctor
with it.
That's your doctor.
The UnCommon Communicato (51:22):
That's interesting.
I want to point out that Ihadn't noticed this before.
But when you talk aboutTechniques, tools, the mirroring
that we've been talking about,you hate it, right.
When somebody repeats that likeyou catch them doing it, he
follows along like I just drewhim in with a hook.
Oh my god man.
He's one thing that we'realways trying to do because
(51:42):
everybody's so different.
He's an assertive on thecommunication style.
You're not, and that's whatwe've learned is.
It definitely works on theassertives because they're like
dang right and then you get themgoing where it's.
I hadn't really seen itDeveloping somebody who
necessarily wasn't thinking likewhat are you doing this to me
for?
I just thought it's interestingto point out to all of our
(52:03):
listeners that these techniqueswork differently with different
styles of communicators.
So I was just kind of neat tosee that kind of play out right
here in front of us when I'mranting, having somebody do it
on me is not as annoying.
Okay, you'll keep going.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
It depends on how they do it, though.
The UnCommon Communicator (52:19):
So, like if they repeat exactly what
I said, I'm like yeah, that'swhat I just said Like it will
drive me crazy, but if somebodydoes it right and they, do it
right well, if they, if they usedifferent words, then it'll
draw me out and I'll keep goingand one of the other techniques
was to purposely say the wrongword To get a reaction from the
(52:40):
person.
To yeah that's anothertechnique that I'm sure you
wouldn't enjoy.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Well, no see, that one actually works.
Great, though, because, like,there are going to be times
where it's almost like youpretend to misunderstand the
person, because then you get toknow how they really feel about
something.
The UnCommon Communicator (53:01):
Yeah , because we're driven, we want
to react, we want to correct, wewant to make it right.
So then you get what they'rereally feeling.
Brandon, you got some lastwords.
Speaker 3 (53:09):
A Bit of a sarcastic question because I've already
got the answer in my head.
But so I've had this debatewith my friends before and
seeing as somebody has majoredin music, clearly if we have a
music major here, got to me.
So this is, this is clearly aprofessional that knows exactly
what she's talking about.
There is a genre of musiccalled pop punk.
(53:29):
Now, you cannot tell me that'sa genre.
It can't be a genre.
It can be one or the other, butit cannot be both.
Okay, what is the definition ofpunk?
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Okay, hang on just a moment.
Because this is the whole thing, because when I was I'm dating
myself now okay but when I wasin middle school, the things
that were considered alternativewhen I was in middle school
were things like Alanna Smoressaid okay which probably still
(54:02):
could be considered you know thesong and Avril Lavigne.
Speaker 3 (54:06):
No, I've, really I was.
So consider Avril Lavigne to beum, um.
Alternative is a better way tophrase it.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
So there there was a time, though, when alternative
seemed like really like this isanti-pop.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
It was like edgy right.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Well, it was Presenting itself as being edgy
and looking back at it now, manyyears later, it's really just
very similar in in style, inshape, in Topics, in everything
to pop.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
So I realized that the whole idea of punk is like
we are like anti governmentBlack flag is probably the
greatest punk band of all time,personally, but anyway but the
thing is that music it's it'sboth the, the idea and the
politics behind it, as well asthe music style itself.
Speaker 2 (55:04):
So if you want to combine two styles, you can do
that and create a genre thatembodies both of those musical
Elements.
You know, whatever the theparts are for both of those
styles and that cantheoretically be separate from
the idea that created thosestyles.
(55:26):
So, for example, there are somebands that I listened to that
are really cool, that havestyles called symphonic metal
and folk metal and those alsoseem pretty opposite in their
origins but Blend together andcreate something amazing.
(55:50):
So I think like, yes, pop andpunk have very different origins
and very different like ways ofPerceiving the world, but that
doesn't necessarily mean thatthey don't work together.
So here's I mean, you've heardrap country, haven't you?
No, so I have.
Speaker 3 (56:10):
And so then here's where here's where Brandon comes
from on this, on this spectrum.
Because I believe so and thisbecause I think to have punk
without the backing, it is nolonger punk, it becomes pop and
Pop punk is pop.
It's like when you dress up forHalloween, like if I were to
dress up as a constructionworker for Halloween.
(56:31):
It doesn't make me aconstruction worker, but I look
like it pop punk isn't punk,it's pop.
Dress like punk.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
Okay, fair enough.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
That's what I for.
I know I go back and forththrough the body of mine.
I'm like it can't be the samething, man, like I can't do it.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
I think it's just trying to find a way to describe
itself that will help people tounderstand what they're.
Speaker 3 (56:51):
Listening to because, also like folk, metal, by the
way, quality stuff it's, it'sgood stuff.
You should, james, go Devlin.
Speaker 2 (57:01):
Yeah, you gotta listen to Lou Betty, and and
listen to their electricherty-girdie.
The UnCommon Communicator (57:07):
Yes to all that.
Speaker 2 (57:08):
It's definitely in do you want to know what a
herty-girdie is?
The UnCommon Communicator (57:11):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (57:12):
It's a really cool string instrument that has keys.
So you press buttons to thatdepress the strings and then
it's got a crank that moves, awheel that that Plays the
strings, makes the stringsvibrate.
So it's sort of like a stringorgan that has keys tell me more
(57:33):
.
I love this and a Lou Betty hasan electric one music has to
evolve, so there it is.
Lou Betty.
If you're listening and youneed a violist, call me.
The UnCommon Communicator (57:50):
You have no electric viola.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
I have an electric five string viola and an
acoustic viola with a pickup.
Speaker 3 (57:57):
I was like.
And then Lindsay Sterling inher electric violin.
She originally I don't want to.
She got her started inAmerica's Got Talent but she uh,
that was proud.
That was where I, like a lot ofpeople, first recognized her
was on America's Got Talent,played at Red Rocks Seven years
ago now, eight years ago now,and you killed it.
I do.
I was like somebody that's overhere, like no man it's, it's
(58:19):
hard rock or heavy metal.
All day I was over here I waslike I did see, that's the thing
, like somebody who's a stellarmusician.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
They, they just transcend Musical barriers even
Ed Sheeran.
Speaker 3 (58:32):
I don't want to give a cheer in a lot of credit
quality guy.
He's got a new song with bringme the horizon out now.
Dude, we never would havethought I would put her.
Ed Sheeran would end up onserious XM's octane.
And lo and behold, not only hasEd Sheeran showed up on serious
XM's octane, I'm listening toEd Sheeran on serious, as I'm
not and enjoying it.
The UnCommon Communicator (58:54):
All right.
Well, that's all we have forthis show see you bye.
Hello everybody and welcome to this
week's Throwback episode fromepisodes 14 and 15 of the
Uncommon Communicator Podcast.
This week I have sewn the twoepisodes that never should have
been split into two episodeswith Joanna, so please listen in
and enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I want to talk right down to earth and a language
that everybody here can easilyunderstand.
The UnCommon Communicat (00:23):
Welcome to the Uncommon Communicator
Podcast, where we bringenlightenment to the topic of
communication.
Are you ready to take ownershipof your conversations?
Are you looking to possess theskills to navigate and
facilitate conversations to amutual understanding?
What are you waiting for?
Grab your growth mindset andlet's go.
Welcome to the UncommonCommunicator.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Your host, james Gable and Brandon Thompson are
here to bring you enlightenmentto the topic of communication.
Good afternoon, james.
The UnCommon Communicator (00:53):
Good afternoon, brandon.
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I'm doing, alright, it's Saturday afternoon and I've
been a bit of a bum like allday.
The UnCommon Communicator (00:59):
How is that different than last
Saturday?
Last Saturday I had to think Iworked beforehand.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Oh, did you?
I don't know.
It all boils together Anywho.
More importantly, we are onceagain joined by a third party
this week.
This is actually kind of cool,because the third party is
actually sitting like right nextto us.
On my left hand side, yourright hand side, but would you
create to introduce said thirdparty James?
The UnCommon Communi (01:19):
Absolutely so.
Today we've got JoannaOstrander with us.
She has been a longtime familyfriend.
We've known probably of eachother.
I know your sister probablylonger, 10, 15 years, maybe it's
been a while.
So I have asked Joanna to joinour podcast today.
Joanna, please introduceyourself.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Hi, I'm Joanna.
Obviously I'm a music therapistand I have a lot to say about
music and how to use that incommunication.
The UnCommon Communicator (01:53):
Yes, you do so.
When we were talking at NewYear's, I just started asking
some different questions and Iwas my jaw was dropped.
It's just amazing what you cando in the whole topic of
communication through music, sothat's one thing that we really
want to delve into today.
So let's back up a little bit.
Your degree is in music, sotell us more about your music
(02:16):
career.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, so I studied well.
I actually started out as aperformance and ed major in
music and found out about musictherapy when I was a junior in
college and immediately thoughtoh my gosh, this is amazing,
this is the coolest thing ever,this is what I have been waiting
for, and so I dropped ed,dropped performance, got my
(02:41):
degree and then went to CSU forMaster of Music in Music Therapy
.
One of the cool things aboutCSU is that they do training in
neurologic music therapy, whichis it's a specific set of styles
and methods that are evidencebased practice in music therapy.
(03:06):
There are actually a lot ofdifferent specializations in
music therapy there's I don'tknow that I could actually name
them all, so I'm not going totry.
The UnCommon Communicator (03:17):
It's all now or we stop.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
But there are, but they all have slightly different
approaches and so a lot oftimes there's different focus,
and one of the interestingthings about neurologic music
therapy is that the focus is onhow music interacts in the brain
, and that has always beenreally fascinating for me.
I love neuroanatomy and thosewere some of my just most
(03:40):
fascinating classes at CSU andit was just really really
interesting learning about howthe brain works and what happens
if there's damage ordysfunction, and so it's always
something that's been reallyinteresting to me that just
seems like a fascinating career.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Is that Chris Voss brain size, Complete brain size?
Right yeah, Chris.
The UnCommon Communicator (04:01):
Voss is stealing from the science
now and since we've now shiftedour podcast.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
So we talked about what Chris Voss does, and Chris
Voss applies to science right,because he even brought up the
study where someone had a damageto their was it frontal cortex
or something like that and theywere not able to make decisions
because their logical brain wasimpacted or that was I'd have to
go back to, really I'd have torevisit.
Chris Voss has never split thedifference to the book that we
have all not read, thateverybody thoroughly enjoyed or
(04:30):
listened to the entire podcaston and is probably like no,
brandon, you're wrong, it wasn'tthe frontal cortex, it was the
occipital lobe and anyway.
The UnCommon Communicator (04:39):
We like brain science, but we don't
talk about the brain parts itwas probably the prefrontal
cortex.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Okay, so I got the frontal part right, you did.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
So the prefrontal cortex does a lot of things with
our executive functions.
So, things like being able toplan and organize and follow
directions and things like that.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Oh, okay, dude, if it's planning and following
directions, I got somethingwrong.
Something went wrong.
The UnCommon Communicator (05:02):
Not sure what we always want.
To start out with.
What do you want the world toknow about Joanna?
It doesn't have to be workingAnything you want.
What do you want the world toknow?
The world's on the scene rightnow.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Well, world, I really hope that you know everyone.
You know what I want to tellpeople.
What I want to share is not somuch about me, but just kind of
one of the ways that I see theworld, and one of the reasons
that I am able to do as well atmy job as I do is because every
(05:37):
person to me is beautiful insome way, and so, even people
that drive me crazy, I can findsomething beautiful about them,
and so what I really hope toimpart to the people that I'm
working with is that they havebeauty in themselves and that
it's there and somebody isseeing it, and that it exists.
(06:03):
They're important, they'reexquisite and unique and
interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
To help somebody else view the same value that you
see in them.
Yeah, quality.
Yeah, it's a great way to lookat the world.
The UnCommon Communicator (06:16):
So what bugs Joanna then about
people?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I was like do you want to list alphabetically,
categorically, chronologically,take your pick.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, that's a really long list.
No, there's always going to bethings.
You know, like we're all human,you know there's all sorts of
things.
The UnCommon Communicato (06:34):
That's a great no, you have a great
outlook on life and I didn'tmean to put you on the spot
without me just because I thinkyou are one of the nicest people
I know.
And I'm like when you just saidwhen somebody bugs you, you
know how to.
You know figure out the beautyin them, which is just an
amazing ability to do that.
And that's why I thought doesanything bug Joanna?
I bet it does oh yes.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
But you figured out the way.
That's probably why I'm so goodat that, because there are a
lot of things that drive mecrazy, and so I have to go.
Okay, wait a second, though Iget least this All right.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
That's actually.
That's a really good way tolook at the world.
I'm working with a coworkerright now and she can be very
frustrating.
It's and I think I see the samekind of thing you do, where I
see the value in the effort thatshe's putting in and I don't
know what it is, but thecommunication is not clicking
and things are not sticking theway we need it to.
(07:27):
However, I do see the effortand I need her to understand
that the effort is reallyappreciated, but also understand
that everybody's gears begetting grinded right now, Like
you know what I mean.
It's just it's like we work inhere, we do win the thing and we
appreciate the effort.
Thank you, I'll be quicker,That'd be great, but anyway
what's question number two,James?
The UnCommon Communicato (07:48):
What's a significant moment of
enlightenment that has to dowith communication, Like where's
an aha moment where you thathad in regards to communication?
You can tie it to work.
You can tie it to just ingeneral, like when you knew
communication happened.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I've been staring at this question all week and
Should we change this question?
The UnCommon Communicator (08:16):
No, no, it's a beautiful question.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
It's just hard because I only can I only pick
one.
The UnCommon Communicator (08:21):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Oh, can you pick one?
No, I mean like do I have to?
The UnCommon Communicator (08:25):
only pick one no pick five.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
It's just that communication is such an
interesting thing and there havebeen, I mean, I don't know that
I can necessarily describe aspecific instance that I have in
mind, but it's just it'sinteresting to see how, how
communication happens or doesn'thappen, and like how different
people respond, and I,communication is just something
(08:53):
that's so integral to everything, like we have to communicate to
get our needs met, we have tocommunicate for, you know,
enjoyment and belonging, and soit's just it's.
It's a really hard question, butone of the things that I think
(09:15):
I really find the most importantwith communication is listening
, and it's something that I'mnot always great at, because it
takes a lot of effort to reallyactively listen to people and it
takes a lot of effort to, youknow, notice, even listen to
ourselves into, like noticeactually how we're communicating
, and that maybe people can'thear what happens in our head in
(09:37):
between, what we tell them.
I was, I was talking actuallyjust this week with someone and
we were having kind of aback-and-forth and I was
explaining about something andthe question that she asked me
at the end I was kind of like,were you listening at all?
(10:01):
And so it was kind of that,that moment of.
Instead of like the a-hacommunication happened, it was
more of like no communicationdid not happen and and it was
kind of- beautiful because I waslike okay, so was this my fault
?
did I not give full enoughsentences?
Did I not explain it in theright order?
(10:23):
But there was that moment whenthey were able to ask a
clarifying question, that thatgave me a chance to go.
Oh wait, they don't understandand so I.
It was kind of this moment ofthat was interesting.
I really thought that I hadsaid all of that, but you know,
(10:43):
maybe the order I set it in oryou know, making sure that the
other person is ready for theinformation you're more likely
to to have the communicationactually occur well, and that's
you nailed it.
The UnCommon Communicator (10:57):
I mean, you were like I don't know
but that's and that's whatmakes you the uncommon
communicator, because that wehave two tenets.
We talk about enlightenment,which is what you just said.
You have to know.
It got you all the way throughthat conversation before you're
like hey, didn't get it right.
And and the second part, whichis the ownership part that we
talk about.
You immediately took thatownership part, which is neat,
(11:20):
because a lot of people are like, ah, you weren't listening and
it's, it's great.
I always look inward too.
It's like how could I have doneit differently?
But on the other side they'renot getting it and it's not
always our fault, but I believeit's our ownership to say I'm
gonna word this a different way,clarifying questions, those
kind of things.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I think that's a great question, great answer
well, and part of it, too, iseven if you have these skills,
that doesn't mean that you'reusing them all the time and that
doesn't mean you can use themall the time or you want to use
them all the time.
It's okay to take a pass yes,that's gonna happen sometimes
too, but it's just.
It's interesting how thatoccurs, though.
(12:01):
That just the Just that.
Sometimes communicationsometimes it's not our fault,
sometimes there's nothing wecould have done.
We tried to give them all theinformation, we tried to wait
until they were ready, and stillthey're not going to get it.
And I was talking to my sisterrecently and about some training
(12:23):
that I had in high school aboutdoing lessons with students and
teenagers.
One of the things that theytalked about is that sometimes
someone is not going to be readywhen you initially present the
information.
Sometimes they might need tohear it multiple times before
(12:43):
they are ready, before they areable to actually go.
Oh, oh that's what it is.
You know you might be the thirdperson and they might need
seven before they really areable to take it in, before
they're really able tounderstand and recognize what it
(13:06):
is that is being taught.
The UnCommon Communicator (13:08):
Well , it's neat how much you know
about the brain science, becausewe love the brain science.
But sometimes you make thatconnection with people on first
word and it's just so stillstrange to me that you can have
that connection, thatunderstanding, that
communication immediately withsome people and others.
(13:28):
You're never going to get thereLike you're going to keep
battling to try to figure thatout, and it's just.
Those are the differences inhow our brains are interacting
and trying to communicate.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well, and it's funny, because it's not always
necessarily, you know, it's notnecessarily just this person.
It might be this situation, itmight be timing, it might be any
number of things that affecthow we communicate.
The UnCommon Communicator (13:55):
And it can change in a snap of a
finger, kind of not a very goodsnap.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Says he's not a very good snap, so not a problem.
The UnCommon Communicator (14:04):
But it's sometimes you think you're
having that communication andthen sometimes you realize that
it just stopped too.
And why does that happen?
That's why I'm fascinated bycommunication in general,
because it just seems to me it'sa puzzle.
And I'm a problem solver.
I love solving problems, andwhen you're seeing that those
situations are going on, I wantto go solve it.
(14:25):
And you know, one of these daysI'll figure out the rubik's
cube.
But to solve those puzzlesgives you just I don't want to
say an upper hand, becausethat's not what I'm shooting for
.
I'm not shooting for an upperhand, but I want to have an
advantage to be able tocommunicate to people, and I
want to have those kind of toolsand effectiveness.
There you go.
That sounds better.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
We can't say I don't want to have an upper hand and
say I have an advantage.
The UnCommon Communicato (14:50):
That's the same words.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
There was one time you were taking me like no, that
was the exact same words really.
I was like yeah, but it didn'tsound right, so that's just bad.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Communication effectiveness is very important.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
It's very important.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
So it's interesting that you mentioned that, though,
because there's a lot ofdifferent things that can create
those barriers.
Right, you know, if we use aword that is triggering to
someone, in either a good way ora bad way, that could stop the
communication.
You know, maybe you mentionedsomething that you know let's
squirrel.
You know, it could just besomething that distracts them,
(15:27):
it could be something thatupsets them.
You might use a word that theydon't know, and instead of
asking you to explain it, theymight just go well, whatever.
They obviously don't want me tounderstand, and they have shut
down.
So it can be any number ofthings.
And, of course, all of us havethese little devices that are
like built in distractions thatwe carry around with us now, too
(15:48):
, so that doesn't help either.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Okay, goldfish brands .
Man, I'm telling you sourced.
The UnCommon Communicat (15:54):
Brandon , do you want to talk about our
third question?
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Well, so we actually kind of talked about the third
question just a little bitbefore we started recording.
But so the third question iswhat's like a communication tool
, Like what's your favoritecommunication tool that you use?
I asked Jesse aboutvulnerability.
When we asked this question, Iwas like Jesse, do you think
vulnerability is a tool?
And it's like it's notnecessarily a tool, but it's a
condition We've talked about,like our different communication
tools.
Right, We've talked aboutmirroring, labeling, not
(16:20):
rephrasing.
Well, rephrasing.
The UnCommon Communi (16:21):
Accusation .
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Accusation not it's that kind of thing and obviously
you're going to have differentterminology for this kind of
thing but, like, what's a,what's one of the communications
tools that either A like youcan use in the job, like if
everyone that's using a job allthe time, like when they're
using your personal life, butwhat's something that you like
do on a regular basis.
Like you know, this is the one,this is my go to, this is my
like the most.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I have probably three that I like the most.
So obviously I use music a lotas a tool in my job.
I don't always use it as likeliteral communication, but I use
it as a way to facilitatecommunication, because sometimes
I'm using it to help createspeech.
Like, sometimes if somebody isis having difficulty being able
(17:03):
to speak fluently, or somebody'shaving difficulty actually
getting their motor skills tocreate the right sounds to
create coherent, clear speech,then sometimes we use songs,
sometimes we use like musicalgames and things like that to
help practice those sounds or tohelp, you know, get somebody to
(17:26):
be triggered to speak.
So I don't know if you've evernoticed, but if somebody sings
part of a song and then theystop, suddenly you kind of want
to fill in the next word.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah.
No, that's a bun on the truth,Right, as long as you know the
words yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
It works on everyone.
So it works really great ifyou're trying to like create
that speech.
So sometimes it's about makingit something that's really
over-learned so that people wantto say it.
But if you go around and youlike start singing a song that
everybody knows, I mean here inthe US, take me out to the ball
(17:59):
game.
Most people know that song.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
I was like you have to finish it if you don't.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Right, yeah, right.
So if somebody was to stopmidway through, you'd probably
just naturally produce the rest,either in your head or out loud
.
So using things like that canbe really great for creating
communication.
But one of the interestingthings about it is that when
you're not dealing with a speechdisorder, when instead you're
(18:24):
dealing with someone who iswanting to express themselves
but they're feeling inhibited orthey're feeling shy, they're
feeling like they don't knowwhat to say, sometimes creating
that kind of space, that sort offeels like a gap in music that
you want to fill in withsomething, can get people to say
(18:46):
something, and it's often whatthey want to say.
But it helps reduce theinhibition and so they're able
to produce it, even though it'slike, oh, this is scary, you
know.
It's less scary because yourbody's like I want to do
something, I want to createsomething, I want to make it.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
I want to put it out there.
They produce it on a reflex,not necessarily on like an act,
Like okay, that's cool yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Also, I really like doing songwriting and
improvisation with my clientsand so using the music that way
to be able to express yourself,be able to.
You know, like I'm feelingreally aggravated today, so I'm
just kind of like bang on thisdrum as loud as I can.
Or, you know, I want to createsomething beautiful or I want to
(19:31):
write some words that aretotally nonsense because, like
I'm frustrated.
You know it's there's, there'sa lot you can do with using the
music for self-expression,either verbally or nonverbally.
So that's one of the tools thatI really like to use.
Another one of the tools that Ireally like to use is listening,
and I feel like, as far ascommunication goes, that is the
(19:54):
most important piece.
If we're not listening, we'regoing to miss a lot and our
communication might not getacross because we might have
missed something that isimportant in being able to
create the communication in theway that the other person is
going to be able to receive.
So that's a really importantpiece as well, and one of the
(20:15):
things that I it's funnyactually it was a client who
told me this and I at first Ithought it was really weird, but
they, they told me I wasdisarming and they kind of said
it in a way like I don't know ifI should trust you, and I feel
(20:38):
like that's a tool that I use alot too.
I I am relativelynon-threatening, in appearance,
in mannerisms, in the way that Iexpress myself, and so because
of that, I think a lot of peopleare willing to speak to me.
I'm one of those people that arandom person will just start
(20:58):
talking to me in the grocerystore or at a bus stop or
anywhere, and I think it's it'spartially because I listen
actively and partially because Ilook like I do that, I I you
know.
I look around, I smile, I tendto actually look at people and
(21:20):
make eye contact and a lot ofpeople they look away, they're
buried in their phones, they're,they're doing something to
actively avoid, and I don't dothat.
I look around.
I want to see the world aroundme.
I want to, you know, notice howbeautiful the mountains look
today, even though I saw themyesterday.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
No, I was like it's nice, it's nice to be like not
Czech.
They're still there, we're good.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
And so I think that that quality that I have, that
I'm able to even even peoplethat are really gruff and have a
really tough exterior they tendto soften around me because I
I'm just like, okay, sure what?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
What's going on.
I was like, can you get somequality interactions out of
those kinds of things too?
I had a.
I had.
There was a lady this is thisstill to this day is like it
kind of blows my mind a littlebit, because I ran into her
several different times.
I'm assuming she lived in theWestminster area, but she has a
fake leg and I was.
I was coming home fromMetropolitan State University of
Denver now We'll fill you inafter the story.
(22:23):
We'll fill you in why that it'simportant to add the university
section to that.
But and we were, we hopped onthe same bus and she was sitting
on the road across from me orwhatever, and I was looking
around.
I think it was like afterschool I was done reading a book
.
I didn't want to look at a book, I didn't want to look at a
phone, I kind of just wanted tolearn.
So I looked around, we made eyecontact and she just started
talking the whole way, right,and it's like a 20-some-minute
(22:44):
bus ride, and she just kepttalking and then and then I got
off and I guess she also got offat the same stop.
She just kept talking, we kepttalking, and I get all the way
to like the parking garage stillright there with me still
talking, doing the whole thing,and I get like pretty much to my
car before I think it eitherclicks with her that like, hey,
(23:04):
homie, like I got to go dosomething now, like seven, eight
o'clock at night, like I'mabout to go like turn in so I
can wake up at five o'clock inthe morning and go do this again
.
But before she like understood,she's like oh, yeah, I should
go my way and you can go yourway.
Yeah, it blew my mind.
It was one of the it's innocent.
Like I wasn't.
Look, I was not the most activein the conversation, but I also
(23:27):
wasn't there to be like no, Ineed you to buzz off right now.
Yeah, but yeah, so it's kind ofcrazy.
The UnCommon Communicator (23:32):
But so why, is it important?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
that.
I said university in the labelof the college.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Because I went to the same school as Brandon for my
undergrad degree and it was notcalled the same thing back then.
It was called the MetropolitanState College of Denver, mscd.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
MSCD, not MSU no.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
And they called themselves Metro.
So.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Metro is still a bit of a label.
Were you guys, road runnersstill?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, of course we were.
Okay, the road runners stillare.
Do you want to know why they'reroad runners?
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Because we had to run across Colfax and the different
streets.
Yeah, Because, we didn't see it.
Yeah, I love that you know that.
Oh, is that where we were?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
No, that's where we were, so it used to actually
have streets through the collegeand they had to cross Colfax.
So now a lot of those areactually park now, so it's like
grass with curbs, which is verycool, I think.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
It's kind of like a cool little urban.
But yeah, that's exactly why Iwas at Starbucks.
I was working at the Starbucksat the college campus when I
discovered that, because someonementioned the Starbucks on the
other side of the college, therewas a Starbucks.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Oh my gosh, now one came later.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
So when you took me to university, because it wasn't
until MSCD that that one showedup.
But yeah, needless to say,that's what we do not have a
Starbucks.
That's what we're calledroadrunners.
It's a good time, man.
I was a big fan of the school,or am a big fan of the school,
but it's still called Metro.
I was like they still call itMetro, it's not the same thing,
but MSU.
It's weird to hear the otherindustry.
The UnCommon Communicator (24:56):
Yeah , you give me the same look.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
So you Well, we sometimes call it Metro State.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Okay, yeah, see, and we just, it's just Metro now.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, it was usually Metro, but sometimes it was
Metro State.
Just to no, we're not talkingabout that Metro, we're talking
about this Metro there you go.
The UnCommon Communicator (25:14):
So let's move on to our last
question, which is what impactdo you want to leave on this
world?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I am really hoping that whatever net impact I have
on the world is a positive one.
I really want to leave a fewmore flowers, a few happier
people, a few more smiles andhopefully not cause more pain
(25:42):
than happiness.
There's a poem by BessieAnderson Stanley called Success,
and one of the things that shementions is finding your niche
and accomplishing your task, butit also kind of outlines
(26:05):
whatever that is whether it's animproved poppy or a A smiling
child that there are differentways that we impact the world
around us and different waysthat we measure success.
Bam.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
That's a better answer than I would have given.
The UnCommon Communicator (26:22):
So it's amazing that's a tough
question the impact questionwhen the first time I had to
answer it.
That's a very tough one.
To answer Jesse, who we stolethis from, we keep going to
refer into him.
He's my godfather of podcasting.
He had a hard time.
He's like that's a toughquestion.
It's always a tough question,but what we talk about is owning
(26:44):
our impacts and being moreintentional towards it.
And I'll tell you right now,your net is way above.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
You're doing great.
The UnCommon Communicator (26:55):
Your net impact is amazing for what
you leave for this world.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
One thing I want to mention, and you can totally cut
this point out.
That is the question that I hadthe least trouble answering.
Oh, phenomenal that's awesomeBecause it's something that I've
thought about a lot in how Iwork with my clients, why I work
with my clients, and it'ssomething that I've had to talk
with clients about about whatgoals do you have for yourself,
(27:23):
what is it that you want toaccomplish?
And so it's unfair to make themdo it if I don't do it too.
The UnCommon Communicato (27:28):
That's amazing, Joanna.
Clearly you have plenty more tosay and we're going to catch
the rest of it next time on theUncommon Communicator Podcast.
Welcome to the UncommonCommunicator Podcast.
I am your host, James Gable,and my co-host, Brandon Thompson
, here to bring youenlightenment to the topic of
(27:49):
communication.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Hello James, Good afternoon.
We are once again joined by JoeAnna Ostrander Ostrander.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Ostrander.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Ostrander Okay, so you got to tell everybody the
story of the last day, because Ithink it's incredibly important
that everybody either A says itproperly, knows who you are
properly, or B just like,understands the story, because
that was a whole moment that wehad and I butchered it horribly.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
So my grandmother always pronounced our name
Ostrander.
I have met other people whopronounce it Ostrander, who also
have the same last name, butit's actually I didn't tell you
this part, and I want to tellyou this part because I think
it's really fun.
The name sounds German.
The people who first had thename actually were Dutch and the
(28:36):
name actually originated in theUS because the naming system at
that time was actuallypatronymic.
So you were named for yourfather, so Peter Peterson as
opposed to having like a lastname that follows you.
And so after coming to theUnited States, peter Peterson or
(29:00):
Peter Peterson, and then hedecided that he wanted to name,
have his last name be where hisfather was from.
So it was Fawnnorsstrand, andthen eventually, I think you
know it gets squished togetherFawnnorsstrand, vonostrand and
then Ostrander.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Dang dude.
Pretty cool.
What's in a name man?
There's a lot.
The UnCommon Communicat (29:24):
There's a lot in the name.
I was like I want for Brandon.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
My parents picked Brandon Thompson.
I didn't think that wasanything too crazy.
I was like we're Irish on mydad's side, so we'll figure that
out as it goes.
Anywho, thank you for onceagain coming back and talking
about communication.
We appreciate you having mehere Great to be here.
The UnCommon Communicator (29:42):
Let's talk about the neurological
music.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
So there's a lot of different ways that our brains
process communication, and oneof the interesting things about
using music is that there are alot of areas of our brain that
light up when we interact withmusic and so because of that,
even when somebody has damagedone area and something's, you
(30:09):
know, not working the way thatit should, often there are other
brain areas that areinteracting similarly with the
music and so you can kind ofbypass the damaged area
sometimes.
But the interesting thing isthat it's not just with
communication.
A lot of neurologic musictherapy is about physical
(30:31):
changes too.
So things like being able toattend to areas of neglect and
you know, understand that thereis another side to my body that
I'm not paying attention to orregaining motor control after a
stroke or after damage, andthere's a lot of different
(30:55):
techniques that work that wayand it's really cool to see them
, just to actually see it work,because it's so funny to watch
somebody move, and somethinglike walking is intrinsically
rhythmic.
It's a motion that we do thathas a pattern to it, that has a
(31:18):
timing to it, and when you addrhythm, when you add music to it
, it can help the brain to go oh, that's when it's supposed to
happen, and so the brain canlatch onto that rhythm and time
all of the muscles to happen atthe right time.
And so it's really interesting,because some of the studies
(31:40):
that they did for neurologicmusic therapy is it happened at
CSU and it happened with musicstudents.
So these are people who, let'shope, are rhythmic and so even
without the added metronome ormusic added, hopefully they're
already rhythmic.
(32:00):
But what was found was thateven like, every little muscle
was more specifically timed whenthey added the rhythm.
So take that to something whichis a different sort of brain
processing, right?
Something like speech.
We use many parts of our brainwhen we're processing and
(32:22):
creating music, and so ourspeech areas are pretty small
and located in very specificregions of our brain, and
there's a couple of differentareas that, if they're damaged,
can affect speech.
Vernike's area and Broke's areaare often ones that, when
(32:47):
stroke is causing difficultieswith speech, those are often the
areas that are affected, andwith Broke as a phasia, there's
a music therapy technique that'sused to help regain and
recreate fluidity of speech.
With Vernike's, there's not alot we can do because they don't
know that there's a problem andso I know some people like that
(33:08):
, well, what happens withVernike's is they, when somebody
has Vernike's a phasia, theystill have fluidity.
So it's not a rhythmic issue,it's not a production issue,
it's a like table to chairgently, like they don't know
what they're saying, and so, orthey think they know what
(33:29):
they're saying, they're tryingto get across what they're
saying, but it's not coming outin a way that we understand it.
But they don't know that that'swhat's happening.
They think that you're justdumb and can't understand them.
But with Broke as a phasia it'snot coming out.
The part of the brain that istrying to create the speech is
(33:49):
not able to do that, and so theyget stuck.
And so the music can help tomake it possible for the speech
to come out, because we kind ofbypass the area by making it
song.
So you don't make it liketotally sing songy, it doesn't
sound like a musical.
You make it so that it sort ofmatches, how you might say, the
(34:11):
phrase anyway.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
And could you give us an example of that, perhaps
just to help people understandmore?
Because, like when, I think ofmusic.
I'm always like okay, dude, sowe talk in like pop, we're going
to the hip hop.
What's the situation here?
Can you give an example of away that you would work with
that kind of?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
speech.
So it's really cool.
It's actually a techniquethat's been around longer than
our logic music therapy, it'scalled melodic intonation
therapy and it's specificallyused with people with Broke as a
phasia, and it is really coolto see it happen.
So, basically, what you do, youcan test somebody to see if
they're able to do this,basically, if they can answer
(34:53):
questions automatically like,say hey, brandon, how are you
today?
I'm doing all right, so is thathow you always answer that
question?
Speaker 3 (35:03):
It becomes a.
It's a bit of a habitual answer.
It's a reflex.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
So we have certain phrases, certain things that we
say, that are reflexes.
Like if somebody opens the doorfor us, we almost always say
thank you.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Those are reflexes.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
So those are reflexes .
So if you still have that, ifyou can still do the reflex, if
you can sing a song that's afamiliar song like can you sing
happy birthday?
Can you sing you know somethingthat was, you know popular,
that you listen to a zilliontimes, and if somebody's capable
(35:36):
of that, and also they appearfrustrated when they're trying
to communicate and the words arenot coming out, which means
that they notice that there'ssomething that's wrong.
If they, if they meet thosequalifications, then they would
be good candidates for melodicintonation therapy.
So, melodic intonation therapyyou basically, you, basically,
you, basically, you basicallyincrease the prosody of a phrase
(35:58):
so you make it more sing-songy,you make it closer to song than
speech.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
And you teach it to somebody in a way that's very,
very repetitive, that you do itover and over, and over and over
, and it's a very regimentedstyle, so that it's like, very
specific, this is what works.
And then I am getting to it all.
No, you're doing fine.
These answers are fantastic.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
We're learning just like everybody else's, so it's
like important to make sure thatlike everybody be on a safe
page.
Like this is all gobble this upall day.
Trust me.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
So basically, you teach it to them until, like,
it's something that they canproduce on their own, and then
you gradually decrease thesing-songiness.
So it might start out withsomething like I have to go to
the bathroom.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
And then you gradually decrease the prosody,
the musicality of it and make itso that it sounds a little more
normal.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
So it sounds more like I have to go to the
bathroom.
I suppose I have to go to thebathroom, like there's not like
a pace or like a rhythm behindit, right, so you?
Speaker 2 (37:05):
start out with the rhythm and with the song, and
actually a friend in line fromschool she did a study of this
with folks from Japan to see ifit would work with the Japanese
language and her study showedthat it did work, even though
the Japanese language doesn'thave as much prosody as English.
So English goes up and down alot and Japanese kind of stays
(37:29):
it's a little monotone yeah.
But still the difference betweensinging it versus speaking it
was enough.
So she did things likekonichiwa, so it was like making
it so that it's still sustainedtone, so you're still accessing
the singing part, and so it'sone of the neat things about
that is, singing is kind ofbilateral, so even if you have
(37:51):
to do on the one side, you can,still you can still sing Sounds
like an after-exam.
The UnCommon Communicator (37:54):
So a little known fact.
My dad was a stroke victim too,actually, and that was the part
that was the hardest for him.
I didn't realize there's twodifferent types of aphasia, but
the biggest frustration for himwas he knew the words to say and
couldn't do it.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
And that's I didn't For him to be able to work
through that.
The UnCommon Communicator (38:15):
Yeah , and that was all part of that
stroke that he went through andhe ended up doing fairly well
getting through the physicaltherapy.
I wish I had known now whatthey had worked him through, but
it sounds like this is moreeffective way of getting people
to speak better.
What's, I guess, like thesuccess rate?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
I don't know.
I'd have to look up the numberson that.
Make them up.
The UnCommon Communicator (38:39):
We're gonna believe everything you
say We've discussed that as longas it's not a round number.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
We're good to go, that's right so when you find
people that do meet the criteriaand, like you know, you need to
find people that actually Didyou screen them before they make
your program?
So they probably wouldn't end upgetting screened by me.
They probably get referred tomusic therapy by a doctor or by
(39:04):
speech therapist, by physicaltherapist, by somebody at a
hospital, usually.
So and one of the neat thingsabout MIT, it's a speech therapy
technique, but a lot of timesspeech therapists would prefer
that a music therapist do thatwith them, just because, well,
unless the speech therapistlikes to sing.
The UnCommon Communicator (39:27):
Which could happen.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
It does happen and there are speech therapists that
really like using it, but it'sa technique that sometimes
speech therapists are a littlereluctant to use because they
don't use it as often.
Broke as aphasia is not a verycommon.
It's not super common as far asaphasias go, but when it does
happen this is a technique thatdoes work pretty consistently,
(39:50):
and they might not get back allof their speech, but the idea is
to teach them phrases thatwould be useful and would
improve their quality of life.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
So then I'm assuming you're just building the
neurologic like pathways inbetween the brain right, like
you're trying to go for a bypasswhen you're doing this?
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
I was like break down some of the brain science.
I apologize.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Brain science is really fascinating but one of
the fun things.
So you know that I'm sure a lotof people hear that you know
our brain stops making newneurons and things like that.
But it's not actually just socut and dry as that.
We don't tend to regenerate ourbrain tissue as quickly as we
get older, but it's still makingnew connections.
(40:33):
We're always learning newthings, like new connections are
formed every time we have anexperience of any kind, and so
basically you're doing kind ofmultiple things.
So you are probably creatingconnections around the damage,
so things that are kind ofbypassing it, as you said.
(40:55):
But there are times with strokethat it actually kind of
reconnects the tissue.
So it doesn't always happenthat way.
Sometimes it's just making newconnections around it, like when
you have a break or somethingyou know.
Like your body creates new bonetissue around the around the
(41:18):
break.
So it's a little of both.
Like sometimes we do make theconnections again and it does
fix the damage.
It depends on how extensive thedamage is.
And whether it's, you know,created some sort of thing there
that it can't get through.
You know it might have to goaround, okay that's cool.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
So this is the kind of stuff that I've always loved.
That was, james talks about howHelo's brain, science and the
same kind of a boat Like it'skind of strange to think how
much not just really math, buthow much of a processing power
it has, and like what exactly isgoing on, because you never
think about your thinking.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
I guess we are right now.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
I was like yeah, I guess now we're discussing our
thought process, but like, yeah,I always thought that was
incredibly cool.
The UnCommon Communicator (42:02):
It's fascinating in communication
just how different words youknow affect.
We talk a lot about the.
We break it down, not with allthe fancy words that you're
using we don't have them but theanimal brain and then we've got
the logical brain and those arethings that I can understand.
But just the words that we usechange and affect those two
(42:22):
different sides of the brain,which is just fascinating to me.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
I wanted to add that when I was listening to your
podcast the other day, a lot oftimes we've been talking about
the, our reptilian brain, ourmammalian brain, and then you
know the because there'sdifferent.
The mammalian mammals.
Yeah Well, just because justbecause, like, there's different
(42:46):
levels of how our brains haveadapted over time.
So that's cool.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
I just I've.
Yeah, these are things I'venever thought about.
This is the cool stuff.
The UnCommon Communicator (42:59):
He has thought about it because
you've brought up King Kongright.
Oh yeah, what soothes King Kongright?
The animal brain.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
So did you ever have like an aha moment when you're
like I wanted to be a therapist,like where was it?
Kind of just one of those where, like, this fascinates me and I
want to learn more about this.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I think that my whole life led me in that direction.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Growing up, I pretty much always like anytime a
friend of mine had somethingthat was bugging them, I wanted
to listen, I wanted to supportthem.
When I was in well, startingfrom like seven, seven years old
, I started going to this summercamp.
(43:44):
That was an all girls camp andI always went to the week that
the campers in leadershiptraining graduated and I was
like I want to be one of them,and so I went through the
training program myself andbecame a counselor at the camp
(44:04):
and that was, you know, welearned a lot of like leadership
skills.
We learned a lot ofcommunication skills.
We learned a lot of like how toinstruct someone else and we
learned about like teachablemoments.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Hey there, little guy , it's okay.
This is where James is grittinghis teeth right now, because
the dogs have made a couple ofappearances on the podcast and
you hear the and he does theplayback and, if you, I should
record him sometime and you cansee his reactions to when the
dogs go over every episode.
The UnCommon Communicator (44:39):
And you know why we continue to do
it?
Because Meg says my daughter, Iheard McGee.
So if you guys hear that McGeeis purposely in our podcast.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
So it's funny that you bring up counseling, because
you didn't talk aboutcounseling before, but you, you
even bring up how you werelistening to episode two, which
was, I believe, mirrors.
I believe episode two ismirrors and that you use mirrors
and counseling, but what didyou call it?
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Oh yeah, and so there's a lot of like counseling
techniques that I use prettyregularly in my communication
with just average people notactually in my therapy.
The UnCommon Communicator (45:19):
Are we in therapy right now, Brandon
and I?
Speaker 2 (45:21):
do we need?
The UnCommon Communicat (45:22):
therapy .
Speaker 2 (45:24):
I think, everybody does, actually including myself.
Therapists actually often havetherapy to help them process
what they have to deal with.
And here you know, vicarioustrauma is a real thing, so I've
forgotten the question.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
So mirroring as related to counseling.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Right, right Okay.
So there's this counselingtechnique called reflection.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Okay, reflection.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
And when I first heard about it and we first had
to practice it in school, itdrove me crazy, because when I
was in school, what they told usto do was to say back to the
person what they had said.
Now they did not explain thisother part which I'm about to
tell you, which is it's veryhelpful if you use different
(46:12):
words than the person said,because if you just say, oh, you
said this right, the person'sgonna be like yeah, I know.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Is there an echo in here?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
It's gonna drive them crazy, which is what happens to
me.
When somebody echoes back to mewhat I just said, I'm like are
you actually listening or areyou just repeating me?
And I find that so just likegrating and annoying.
But when I found out whatreflection was actually supposed
to be, which is that it is anopportunity for clarification.
(46:45):
So if you tell me something andI say it back to you, but in a
slightly different way so firstof all you feel heard, because
you know that I actuallyunderstood and interpreted what
you said, and then you have anopportunity to go no, the word
you use is not quite what I meanThen that gives an opportunity
(47:05):
to say okay, I didn't quiteunderstand you, I'm close, and
now is your opportunity to tellme no, this is actually what I
mean.
So the neat thing aboutreflection is that it's a tool
that can be used to get moreinformation and to understand
better, because when we use thesame word as someone else, we
(47:27):
think that they understand it inthe same way that we do, but
they don't necessarily.
The UnCommon Communicator (47:32):
So that's almost like a mix between
the mirrors and the labels,because the mirrors is what says
, well, I get got about itbecause it's a Jedi mind trick.
So we love, I love, the Jedistuff.
He's a good guy, but the ideais not necessarily you just said
this One or the other.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
No, I don't, we can have that conversation.
The UnCommon Communicator (47:54):
Don't get him started, but it's.
The idea is and I've seen itwhen I tend to use this a lot
too, when I'm listening topeople just to repeat the last
word always draws out more words.
They feel the need to fill inthe gap for one, and then on the
labeling side is it seems like,and then you're getting that
clarification.
So they're very similarprocesses from the negotiation
(48:16):
techniques to this type ofreflecting.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
If you've never seen it.
James is pretty good about thisbecause I'll get going on some
topic.
Take your pick on either one.
All right, you probably likethe new in the Patriots or
something you know, justsomething along line of those I
was like yeah, he's like oh itseems like you have a lot of
emotions, like you don't run.
I got a lot of emotions on thedifference through Star Wars and
Star Trek.
Absolutely I do.
Kirk or Bacardi got an opinionbecause you should, so you know,
(48:40):
goes on and so forth and he'slike, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Okay, but they're different.
But that doesn't necessarilymean one is better than the
other.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
This is true.
So you have to ask now thatwe've, like, we've arrived at
this bridge, kirk Bacardi,because I gave you my earlier.
I did say I gave the opinion onKanto, so like, and this is
okay.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
So I will tell you I do like both of them.
I think I like Picard more, butpartially because when I first
started watching Star Trek itwas next generation that I
started with, and so Picard wasthe first captain, and so for me
(49:19):
that was like my first exposureto Star Trek.
But also I like that he issophisticated yet vulnerable.
I feel like Kirk is reallyinteresting too.
He's so much emotion, though,and so for me that was like a
little bit too much, like itjust he's.
He's great, he's a reallyinteresting character, but it
(49:41):
just he doesn't doesn't quiteline as true to me.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
I get that.
No, and that's actually sodiscovered because my dad's a
Kirk guy, but my dad also, like,watched from the very beginning
, right.
So it's it's almost as a bit ofa generational thing where,
like, you pick your favorite one.
Also.
Just a quick question, becausethis is a thought that I've had
and this is music related, sothis is kind of on the topic.
When you so obviously coveredbands do covers all the time,
right, so there's the originalsong and then there's a band
(50:06):
cover, my running theory is thatthe one that you've heard first
is the one that you'll likemore, and I don't I don't have
an example where.
So, for I think my favoritecover of all time is probably
Johnny Cash's cover of Nine InchNose is Hurt, right and
objectively I would say it's abetter.
(50:26):
It's a better song than whatNine Inch Nose did, in my
opinion, but even like disturbedAtlantic infusion, I would
rather listen to that one thanthe other, but I heard that
version first.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
shum, well, maybe shout my video so that was a
great example you gave.
I heard the nine inch nailsversion first.
Okay which I do like, and thereare times where that's the one
I want to hear, but I like theJohnny Cash version better.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
Okay, all right, this is.
That was just a pun on aquestion.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Yeah, but it I do think that there is something
about that primacy kind of thingthat, like the first time you
hear something that that's morelikely to be the one that you
think this is what it's supposedto sound like that's the one
that you latch on to.
It's like there's a theoryabout that with Doctor who as
well that the the doctor thatyou started watching.
(51:16):
Doctor who with it's gonna bethe one that you Is the doctor
with it.
That's your doctor.
The UnCommon Communicato (51:22):
That's interesting.
I want to point out that Ihadn't noticed this before.
But when you talk aboutTechniques, tools, the mirroring
that we've been talking about,you hate it, right.
When somebody repeats that likeyou catch them doing it, he
follows along like I just drewhim in with a hook.
Oh my god man.
He's one thing that we'realways trying to do because
(51:42):
everybody's so different.
He's an assertive on thecommunication style.
You're not, and that's whatwe've learned is.
It definitely works on theassertives because they're like
dang right and then you get themgoing where it's.
I hadn't really seen itDeveloping somebody who
necessarily wasn't thinking likewhat are you doing this to me
for?
I just thought it's interestingto point out to all of our
(52:03):
listeners that these techniqueswork differently with different
styles of communicators.
So I was just kind of neat tosee that kind of play out right
here in front of us when I'mranting, having somebody do it
on me is not as annoying.
Okay, you'll keep going.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
It depends on how they do it, though.
The UnCommon Communicator (52:19):
So, like if they repeat exactly what
I said, I'm like yeah, that'swhat I just said Like it will
drive me crazy, but if somebodydoes it right and they, do it
right well, if they, if they usedifferent words, then it'll
draw me out and I'll keep goingand one of the other techniques
was to purposely say the wrongword To get a reaction from the
(52:40):
person.
To yeah that's anothertechnique that I'm sure you
wouldn't enjoy.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Well, no see, that one actually works.
Great, though, because, like,there are going to be times
where it's almost like youpretend to misunderstand the
person, because then you get toknow how they really feel about
something.
The UnCommon Communicator (53:01):
Yeah , because we're driven, we want
to react, we want to correct, wewant to make it right.
So then you get what they'rereally feeling.
Brandon, you got some lastwords.
Speaker 3 (53:09):
A Bit of a sarcastic question because I've already
got the answer in my head.
But so I've had this debatewith my friends before and
seeing as somebody has majoredin music, clearly if we have a
music major here, got to me.
So this is, this is clearly aprofessional that knows exactly
what she's talking about.
There is a genre of musiccalled pop punk.
(53:29):
Now, you cannot tell me that'sa genre.
It can't be a genre.
It can be one or the other, butit cannot be both.
Okay, what is the definition ofpunk?
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Okay, hang on just a moment.
Because this is the whole thing, because when I was I'm dating
myself now okay but when I wasin middle school, the things
that were considered alternativewhen I was in middle school
were things like Alanna Smoressaid okay which probably still
(54:02):
could be considered you know thesong and Avril Lavigne.
Speaker 3 (54:06):
No, I've, really I was.
So consider Avril Lavigne to beum, um.
Alternative is a better way tophrase it.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
So there there was a time, though, when alternative
seemed like really like this isanti-pop.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
It was like edgy right.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Well, it was Presenting itself as being edgy
and looking back at it now, manyyears later, it's really just
very similar in in style, inshape, in Topics, in everything
to pop.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
So I realized that the whole idea of punk is like
we are like anti governmentBlack flag is probably the
greatest punk band of all time,personally, but anyway but the
thing is that music it's it'sboth the, the idea and the
politics behind it, as well asthe music style itself.
Speaker 2 (55:04):
So if you want to combine two styles, you can do
that and create a genre thatembodies both of those musical
Elements.
You know, whatever the theparts are for both of those
styles and that cantheoretically be separate from
the idea that created thosestyles.
(55:26):
So, for example, there are somebands that I listened to that
are really cool, that havestyles called symphonic metal
and folk metal and those alsoseem pretty opposite in their
origins but Blend together andcreate something amazing.
(55:50):
So I think like, yes, pop andpunk have very different origins
and very different like ways ofPerceiving the world, but that
doesn't necessarily mean thatthey don't work together.
So here's I mean, you've heardrap country, haven't you?
No, so I have.
Speaker 3 (56:10):
And so then here's where here's where Brandon comes
from on this, on this spectrum.
Because I believe so and thisbecause I think to have punk
without the backing, it is nolonger punk, it becomes pop and
Pop punk is pop.
It's like when you dress up forHalloween, like if I were to
dress up as a constructionworker for Halloween.
(56:31):
It doesn't make me aconstruction worker, but I look
like it pop punk isn't punk,it's pop.
Dress like punk.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
Okay, fair enough.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
That's what I for.
I know I go back and forththrough the body of mine.
I'm like it can't be the samething, man, like I can't do it.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
I think it's just trying to find a way to describe
itself that will help people tounderstand what they're.
Speaker 3 (56:51):
Listening to because, also like folk, metal, by the
way, quality stuff it's, it'sgood stuff.
You should, james, go Devlin.
Speaker 2 (57:01):
Yeah, you gotta listen to Lou Betty, and and
listen to their electricherty-girdie.
The UnCommon Communicator (57:07):
Yes to all that.
Speaker 2 (57:08):
It's definitely in do you want to know what a
herty-girdie is?
The UnCommon Communicator (57:11):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (57:12):
It's a really cool string instrument that has keys.
So you press buttons to thatdepress the strings and then
it's got a crank that moves, awheel that that Plays the
strings, makes the stringsvibrate.
So it's sort of like a stringorgan that has keys tell me more
(57:33):
.
I love this and a Lou Betty hasan electric one music has to
evolve, so there it is.
Lou Betty.
If you're listening and youneed a violist, call me.
The UnCommon Communicator (57:50):
You have no electric viola.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
I have an electric five string viola and an
acoustic viola with a pickup.
Speaker 3 (57:57):
I was like.
And then Lindsay Sterling inher electric violin.
She originally I don't want to.
She got her started inAmerica's Got Talent but she uh,
that was proud.
That was where I, like a lot ofpeople, first recognized her
was on America's Got Talent,played at Red Rocks Seven years
ago now, eight years ago now,and you killed it.
I do.
I was like somebody that's overhere, like no man it's, it's
(58:19):
hard rock or heavy metal.
All day I was over here I waslike I did see, that's the thing
, like somebody who's a stellarmusician.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
They, they just transcend Musical barriers even
Ed Sheeran.
Speaker 3 (58:32):
I don't want to give a cheer in a lot of credit
quality guy.
He's got a new song with bringme the horizon out now.
Dude, we never would havethought I would put her.
Ed Sheeran would end up onserious XM's octane.
And lo and behold, not only hasEd Sheeran showed up on serious
XM's octane, I'm listening toEd Sheeran on serious, as I'm
not and enjoying it.
The UnCommon Communicator (58:54):
All right.
Well, that's all we have forthis show see you bye.
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