May 6, 2025 • 33 mins
What happens when you achieve everything society calls "success" but still feel empty inside? Dr. Sharon Spano walks us through this profound paradox that affects countless high-achieving leaders.
Drawing from her extensive experience as a consultant with a PhD in human organizational systems, Dr. Spano reveals the hidden patterns that create what she calls "the emptiness of success." We explore how accomplished professionals with million-dollar homes and impressive careers often reach out for help when they realize material success hasn't delivered the fulfillment they expected.
Dr. Spano shares powerful insights about the "hidden loyalties" we carry from our family histories that unconsciously shape our relationship with success. Through moving client stories, she demonstrates how seemingly innocent parental advice like "you have to work very hard in America or you'll be left behind" can create lifelong patterns of never feeling enough despite extraordinary achievements.
The conversation takes a deeply personal turn when Dr. Spano opens up about raising and eventually losing her disabled son, and how this profound experience shaped her capacity for empathy and understanding in her work with leaders. This heartfelt discussion illuminates how our greatest challenges often become the foundation for our most meaningful contributions.
For leaders feeling trapped in the hustle culture, Dr. Spano offers practical wisdom for moving toward harmony: recognize work will never be completely done, identify your top priorities each day, and practice being fully present wherever you are. Her approach integrates professional growth with character development, creating what she calls "the other side of potential."
Take the first step toward breaking free from empty success by visiting SharonSpano.com/uncommon-leader to access her Leader's Edge assessment and discover where you stand in the stages of human development.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
To me, that is the other side of potential.
It's not just what am Imanifesting in terms of my
career and money and you know,climbing the ladder in titles or
whatever it might be, but it'slike who am I in terms of my own
character and what am I doingin the world to make the world a
better place?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey, uncommon Leaders , welcome back.
This is the Uncommon LeaderPodcast.
I'm your host, john Gallagher,real excited about my
conversation today with DrSharon Spano.
She's going to talk aboutsomething that, frankly, has
been on my heart a bunch lately,and that's this idea of how do
I be successful and feelfulfilled at the same time.
Or is there a gap there, drSpano?
(00:46):
She has a PhD in humanorganizational systems.
She blends science and personaldevelopment to guide CEOs and
consultants and entrepreneurstoward radical growth, so I look
forward to talking about thatin terms of a topic as well.
She's also the host of apodcast, the Other Side of
Potential those of you watchingon video can see that behind her
shoulder there and the authorof the Pursuit of Time and Money
(01:07):
.
She shares her insights todayon breaking free from the
emptiness of success and to livelife with purpose.
So, dr Spano, welcome to theUncommon Leader podcast.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I'm doing great.
Thanks so much for having me onboard.
I'm very excited to have thisconversation.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Absolutely, I am as well, and I'll start you off
with the same question that Ialways ask my first time guests,
because it's kind of fun, butto ask you to tell me a story
from your childhood that stillimpacts who you are today as a
person or as a leader.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
That's such a big question, but when I thought
about that, the answer is kindof easy for me.
In that and this may soundcontrary to popular belief but
my parents were divorced andactually that turned out to be a
blessing, in that my father,after a few years, got custody
of us and we were placed with mypaternal grandmother.
(01:57):
And it was not easy because wewere not really wanted there by
my sister and I.
When I say we, my aunts anduncles, my grandmother lived
with them, they had their ownfamily and we were really not
wanted and it was very wellknown that we were not wanted.
I mean, I felt it very much asa four or five-year-old whatever
I was.
(02:18):
But my grandmother turned out tobe just the beacon in my life,
in that she gave me my faith.
She taught me so many things,one being she lost her son in
the war.
And looking back, you and Ihave talked about my losing my
own son years and years later,but I realized my son was
(02:38):
disabled.
My grandmother also wasdisabled, so she really prepared
me for being an advocate forpeople with disabilities.
I didn't even realize thatuntil I went into my master's
program and I was writing a bookabout my own son and my
professor said your grandmotherneeds to be in this book because
, she was the first you know,your first experience with
(02:59):
disability.
So she gave me my faith.
She taught me about disability.
She also taught me about griefand how to lose a son, and I
felt as prepared as you can bewhen you lose a child as a
result of having lived with herand you know hearing the stories
all my whole life about myuncle.
So he died in the war, but shewas the one and my book,
(03:21):
isabel's God, is named after her.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Wow, you know I love first of all, I love stories of
grandmothers who have hadpositive impacts on us, but I
truly love you, sharon, also thestory about your son as well,
and, as you talked about in yourbook, as you go through that
and talking about that journey,oftentimes the people that we
help the most are the ones wewere so much like when we were
(03:46):
young or when we went throughcertain things inside of our
career.
I know many of the times I talkabout who do I talk to in
podcasts and things like that.
It's that person that I was 25years ago looking to kind of
grow.
So you have a tremendousopportunity.
So I am condolences on yourloss.
So I am condolences on yourloss.
(04:07):
I know that's something you'vehad to work through in your
career and clearly, somethingyou're able to show others and
how to get through that.
So let's dive right in.
Ultimately, in terms of thetopic that I'm here talking
about, you talk about a topicbreaking free from the emptiness
of success and to live withpurpose.
So what's the emptiness ofsuccess?
How do I know I have it?
What are the signs of it interms of how you coach people?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, it's such a great question because early in
my career I felt like I workedwith a lot of people who were
climbing the ladder and then inthe last 10 years, as we've seen
people catapult to wealth andsuccess and prosperity as a
result of the internet and allthese pop-ups and angel
investors, as we've seen peoplecatapult to wealth and success
and prosperity, you know, as aresult of the internet and all
these pop-ups and, you know,angel investors, and we've just
(04:49):
seen a lot more people at a lotmore younger ages acquire a
certain level of or a high level, I should say of success.
And then I began to notice inmy clients what I'm now calling
the emptiness of success.
Meaning you know they have themillion dollar plus house, you
know multiple million dollarplus house, you know the
multiple cars, you know all thetoys, but they're not happy,
(05:13):
they don't feel fulfilled.
And I usually get them alongsomewhere in that spectrum.
You know, maybe they're stilltrying to build the business or
scale it, but they've got themoney, but they're just not
happy.
And there's sort of this deeperquestion of is this all there
is?
And I just feel, you know, mywork is grounded in human
(05:33):
development, as you know, andthere are 12 stages of human
development.
So the average American in ourworkforce is at stage five or
six.
So there's room there,obviously, for a lot more of
developmental growth in terms ofour worldviews and perceptions.
And so we really first identifywhere the pain or the emptiness
(05:54):
is, and often they don't evenreally know.
It's something often that theyoriginally think from a concrete
perspective.
I'm having trouble with mypartner, for example, or I'm not
really connected to my kids, orI don't have time for X, y, z,
or I'm having trouble with mypartner, for example, or I'm not
really connected to my kids, orI don't have time for X, y, z,
or I'm, you know, I'm havingtrouble with my team.
So it'll, it'll be initiallysomething very obvious and
concrete, but that's usually notthe answer.
(06:15):
There's usually an abstractsomething beneath all of that
that we have to, you know, lookat.
So, for an example, I workedall last year with the gentleman
who was having trouble with apartner and they were best
friends along the way and ofcourse he's trying to preserve
the friendship as well as thebusiness, and yeah, that's a
(06:36):
very real piece.
And so we could talk abouttactics around that.
But the deeper wound came, andit took us a little while to get
there.
The deeper wound came fromanger, issues that we then
discovered were a result ofembarrassment, and the
embarrassment came from someexperiences that he had had in
(06:56):
his early childhood.
I'm not talking about looking,it's not therapy.
I'm not a therapist.
We're not looking back in theway that we would in therapy
although I think there's a timeand a place for that but I like
to say to my clients we're goingto look backward just long
enough to discover what's reallygoing on here, but we're not
going to stare at the page.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So I love that, and you can talk about those
different stages.
We could dive into that alittle bit.
We different stages, we coulddive into that a little bit.
We get to a certain point,because I think about these
leaders, and many that I workwith as well.
They've got to your point.
They've got the book definitionof success, they've got a
successful business which hasresulted to your point in
(07:38):
multiple items of stuff homes,cars, boats, whatever those
things are, trips and all thosethings that they have.
But how do they end up comingto you?
Then?
There's something that'smissing, right, because I often
talk about, well, change, whenthe displeasure of remaining the
same is greater than the changeor greater than the pain of the
change itself.
And so they're coming to you,probably saying I need to scale
(08:02):
my business.
But you know right off the bat,that's not where they are.
How do you get them there?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Right.
Well, often they know they'reunhappy, that'll be it, you know
.
They'll know they're unhappy,pardon me and often they really
can't even define what happinesswould look like for them,
because they've spent a big partof their lives thinking I will
be happy if I acquire XYZ.
But now I have XYZ and I'mstill not happy.
(08:28):
So we have to kind of again getto the root, and I think that's
where coaching or consultingcomes in.
Is it's very difficult to get tothe root of the issue by
yourself.
I mean, obviously, if we coulddo that, we would just do it.
So I think you need to walkalongside someone who can help
you really.
You know, we're trained asconsultants, as coaches, as even
(08:51):
therapists, obviously to listento what's not being said, and
then I do things.
I have a 12-week process calledPotential Unleashed, where I
bring together all of mytraining and experience in the
field.
It's really a hybrid ofeverything I've experienced
throughout the many years thatI've been in the field, in and
out of corporate America, and Ihave certain tools in there, and
(09:11):
one of those tools is we lookat the genogram, which is
looking at the family history,because we know now that many
things that we carry comethrough the family line
literally, and so I find it'svery interesting in that some of
my clients may be unhappy, butthey have a perfect life, and
that unhappiness comes from whatwe call in my business a hidden
(09:34):
loyalty to an ancestor.
So, for instance, if my motherwas never happy, you know now I
have the perfect marriage andwonderful kids and a great
business and a loving husband.
Well, how can I be happy?
My mother was never happy, andI carry that internally without
even knowing that that'shappening.
So then I have processes thathelp us break through those
(09:56):
perspectives and reframewhatever is going on in the
individual's life.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I love that as a process.
Jefferson Bethke, john Tyson,wrote a book that I read last
year called Fighting Shadows,and some of those shadows really
were those things that kept usfrom becoming the person who we
were called to be, whether it'sfrom the perspective of faith or
it's from the perspective ofbusiness.
One of the shadows thatidentified there were one word
(10:22):
was ambition, the Uh.
The other one is guilt, uh, or,and even the third one being
shame.
Three of those seven that justthey're coming back to me as you
tell their stories, and soyou're talking about that.
Even in recognizing that it, itgoes um back further Uh.
You talk a good bit about howto balance ambition, uh, which
(10:43):
can be shadow, it can be both agood thing and a bad thing with
fulfillment.
So, in your experience, whatare some of those struggles that
cause that for leaders to havean out of balance with ambition
and fulfillment?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Well, I think what you just stated is very accurate
in that, pardon me, when yousay guilt, I think of my own
career and how unwittingly myown mother constantly made me
feel guilt and shame over mysuccess and my husband's success
(11:16):
, with just a phrase, you know,she would say well, that must be
nice.
I never got to do that, youknow, if we were going on a trip
or we bought a new house, andit took me many, many years.
When I wrote the book on timeand money, I wrote it because I
was seeing that many of myclients had either a lot of time
and no money or a lot of moneyand no time.
And so I looked at theexperience of time and money
(11:37):
through the lens ofdevelopmental growth.
And that was one of my growingedges was I had to get past my
own scarcity perspectives andshame over success.
You know, I was always verydriven and I came from a very
poor family and so I was drivento get out of those environments
(11:59):
.
But then I had this mother whowas a very loving mother and,
honestly again, did not mean tocreate that in me.
But I would interpret it asshame and guilt because my
mother had a hard life and shenever had a marriage like I have
.
You know, she had threehusbands and none of them were
very good and I chose oppositeof those three because of her,
(12:22):
because I knew I don't ever wantto live in that, but I had a
lot of shame and guilt about it.
And so those are the kinds ofthings that I see they're very
subtle again, subconsciousthings that we all carry out, of
those hidden loyalties.
There's actually four hiddenloyalties that we've identified
in the research and everything Ido is also looking at the
system, both the personal system, family system, individual
(12:46):
system, as well as theorganizational system.
So when you look at thoseprinciples, it's very easy for
my clients then to go.
That's me.
I have a hidden loyalty to mymother, my father, or there was
an uncle or there was agrandfather who was a Flander,
and I see that in my family lineand I don't want to go in that
(13:06):
direction.
I always say with the firstmoment of awareness comes
opportunity for change.
So I'm really kind of themirror, I'm the crucible, I'm
holding up the mirror and thenwhen they start to see
themselves, part of what I do isteach them how to witness
themselves in the moment, thenthe change is more automatic.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Hey listeners, I want to take a quick moment to share
something special with you.
Many of the topics anddiscussions we have on this
podcast are areas where Iprovide coaching and consulting
services for individuals andorganizations.
If you've been inspired by ourconversation and are seeking a
catalyst for change in your ownlife or within your team, I
invite you to visitcoachjohngallaghercom forward
(13:47):
slash free call to sign up for afree coaching call with me.
It's an opportunity for us toconnect, discuss your unique
challenges and explore howcoaching or consulting can
benefit you and your team.
Okay, let's get back to theshow.
I'm writing a note here becauseI think you flew by it so fast
(14:08):
and maybe you've just said it somany times.
So the first sign of awarenessprovides an opportunity to make
a change.
That's a huge statement.
I want folks to kind of almostagain I don't often say rewind
or whatever that is you hit the15 second back or 30 second back
button to listen to that quoteand make sure it's correct.
But again, we're also back toyou're able to help others
(14:31):
because you went through it,because you experienced it,
because you had those things,and so, aside from yourself, is
there a client without sharinganything that you're not allowed
to share.
Who you have been able to help,that you frankly feel really
I'll use the term proud of itmight not be the right word, but
certainly feel fulfilled withbeing able to help them out and
what that story was like.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, let me just for one second call attention and
thank you for stopping me onthat quote, because I do say it
so often, but I think thatwhat's what's important about it
is typically, when we have amoment of awareness about
something you know, to use yourlanguage and common
psychological language, a shadowwithin us, we go to shame and
(15:13):
my mission in life is to helppeople go know.
No, when you have thatawareness, that's really God
just knocking you on the head,going here's a moment for growth
.
Let's go with that instead ofgoing to shame, because there's
no shame, as we know, andcertainly from a spiritual
perspective has no place inGod's world.
So I wanted to say that.
And then, in terms of clients,well, I have to say I'm so proud
(15:46):
for all of them because theyall do such.
That's right.
And I recently had just thisamazing young man, 32 years old.
When he came to me, felt likehe was failing because, quote, I
only have a condo and I can'thave all of my relatives here to
my home because I only have acondo.
And he's a young married manwith a new baby.
(16:07):
And I said let's reframe that.
You don't only have a condo,only have a condo.
You have a half a million dollarcondo in California which very
few 32-year-olds could probablypull off.
Plus, he's got an amazing job.
He's a brilliant young man, butwhat we discovered in the work
with him was this need to provehimself which was actually
(16:29):
sabotaging.
His success in the company camefrom one sentence that his
father his father was animmigrant and he was born here
in the United States.
And one sentence that hisfather said similar to my mother
, just not even realizing theimpact it would have on his boy
is that you always have to workvery hard here in America or you
(16:52):
will be left behind.
And so no matter.
And you can just see a fatherinnocently saying that, giving
advice to his boy.
But he was like six at the timeand what it instilled in him
was this need to prove myselfI'm never going to be enough.
And he was carrying that.
So we were able to do the work,embrace his culture, embrace
(17:16):
his father's wisdom, and reframethat wisdom and free him up so
that he now knows no, I amenough, and look what I've done
and you look yet how muchfurther I can go and bless the
rest of my family.
So when we finished the 12-weeksession, we both were in tears
because I hated to let him go,but he was ready and what he
(17:39):
said to me at the end was one ofthe greatest things any of my
clients has ever said, becausein the final moments he said I'm
trying to figure out why I'm soemotional about this parting.
And he said I think it'sbecause it's the first time I
have ever really felt seen byanyone and I want to thank you
for that.
And that to me was I mean,that's the essence of my work.
(18:01):
That's what I'm trying to doeverywhere I go is help people
belong and feel seen, becausethere's enough places where we
feel we're not enough and don'tbelong and we certainly don't
need any more of that in ourlives.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Amen.
The solution sometimes is tosome of those shadows, to some
of those words that we talkedabout are just affirmations in
yourself.
First, again, both of you, atleast both of us.
What I hear from you in termsof faith is that we recognize
that we are made in the image ofGod and there were no accidents
and we are great in His eye andthat's the only eye that we are
made in the image of God andthere were no accidents and we
are great in his eye and that'sthe only eye that we need, if
(18:38):
you will.
But outside of that is creating.
What I heard you say, too, arethese almost affirmation
statements.
These, I am, statements thatfolks are talking about that I
am worthy, that I am enough,that I am, you know, getting
back to faith, a child of God,or I am successful, um, and
regardless of what I was told,uh, before, those are just not
(18:59):
true statements, and being ableto start to believe and have
faith and then be faithful tothose activities is so important
.
I appreciate sharing that story, uh, and the impact you had.
I can I can sense that in yourvoice how how much that meant to
you.
It's like those mic dropmoments when somebody says
something like that, you're likemy work is done and you could
almost say I can turn the phoneoff and I don't have to talk to
(19:22):
anybody else anymore.
That's how I want it to end, soto speak, is to hear something
like that.
I appreciate you sharing that.
Let's shift just a little bitabout you.
Your podcast back behind yourshoulder there those who watch
on YouTube is titled the OtherSide of Potential.
So let's break down that titlea little bit.
(19:43):
Tell me what you see aspotential and how you define
that.
And then what's the other side?
Tell me a little bit about yourpodcast.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah, we decided and I'm actually rebranding it, but
with great hesitation because Ilove this title.
But we decided on the other sidewhen I started this several
years ago, because we realizedthat I was always working with
people for to the to the greaterend, not just about scaling the
business I ran across in mycareer as I traveled across
(20:09):
North America and I was in andout.
One point point I was in 100 andsome odd cities a year.
It was ridiculous.
And so I started to really seethat again people were scaling
and working hard and climbingthat ladder, but again the
self-leadership part was missing.
(20:30):
And to me that is the otherside of potential.
It's not just what am Imanifesting in terms of my
career and money and climbingthe ladder in titles or whatever
it might be, but it's like whoam I in terms of my own
character and what am I doing inthe world to make the world a
better place?
And so the other side ofpotential to me is looking at
(20:53):
the whole self, because I don'tbelieve we can compartmentalize,
we're not one way at work andthen we come home and kick the
dog and leave the wife.
We need to be whole leaders andso that was in the beginning.
I was only interviewing CEOs totalk about how they did in fact
manage the complexity of theirbusinesses and the world they
(21:14):
were living in in the context ofliving what I call an
integrated life, because I'm notsure that I really believe it's
semantics but I don't reallybelieve that balanced life can
ever be fully realized, becauselife hits us.
So, for instance, when my sonwas critical, he was critical
for four years and we were justin and out of hospitals.
You know I had to makedecisions.
(21:36):
You know you keep the businessgoing but you don't have time to
go to the gym.
You don't have time.
I barely could get to church onSunday because I was at the
hospital.
So you're always makingdecisions on the whole life as
you're trying to keep thebusiness going and manage your
family and your own health andall those things.
So to me that is the other sideof potential.
It's it's looking at all of it.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Love that and I love the holistic approach too.
I think it's it's to your point.
You cannot compartmentalize asa leader.
It just doesn't work.
I mean, then now you're talkingabout character and integrity
and all those things that startcoming into play with the rest
of those people outside of yourlife, and I think you're spot on
.
It actually makes a lot ofsense.
(22:19):
Let's bring it on the bottomshelf for folks then, just a
little bit, because you talkabout a term from hustle to
harmony.
What does that look likepractically for executives?
What are two or three thingsthey can do to move from hustle
the badge of honor of busynessto harmony, which because
there's probably no real balanceto your point, that exists in
(22:39):
life, but harmony is good.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I think you know I'm having to do more and more work
around this, even with very high, high-level people, and I think
the first thing is to recognizethat at the end of the day, it
is never going to be done.
You know I'm meeting moreleaders who are like well, I
don't have enough hours in theday, and I think you have to, at
some point, identify two tothree things, major things that
(23:03):
you know you're going toaccomplish each day, each week,
each quarter.
You know and be realistic thatbecause of the world we're
living in and the technologythat is at our fingertips, we're
constantly being bombarded withtext, emails, boxers.
You know all these things Atsome point, just saying the day
is over and now my time and beand be, and really I'm working
(23:26):
with someone right now.
I'm having to teach him how tobe present with his own family
because they're all on theircell phones through dinner and
you dinner and you can't expectto have harmony with your
teenagers if you've not beenpresent to them throughout their
lives.
So you know it's a hard sellhere, but to me it's the hustle
is making decisions about theseare the main things for the day,
(23:50):
like I said, and then get thosedone and then lay it down and
be okay with that and be presentwherever you are.
When I'm on vacation, like Isaid, and then get those done
and then lay it down and be okaywith that and be present
wherever you are.
When I'm on vacation like I wasin Boca last week for Easter
for three days with friends I'min Boca with friends and this
doesn't mean I don't pick up myphone and check a thing here or
there, but I have the greaterintention of being present
(24:13):
wherever I am.
And that took me many years tolearn how to do that and I
attribute it to my son becausewith Michael, you know, being
disabled, he required a lot.
It was like having five or sixchildren many times and I just
had to learn how to integratethe complexity of him because he
was multiple systems in one,and then the work that I'm doing
(24:37):
and about, and then somewherein there trying to fit in a
husband.
So that was.
But we both had the samepriority, which was always
Michael, and so that made themarriage work and also was what
helped us sustain through theloss, was the commitment was
always there to him and theneach other.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
That's it.
You know, I think about thislike we want this airplane mode
button for our life ultimately,that the distractions are turned
off.
I don't know.
I kind of thought that almostlike a title book.
I want to live in airplane modeor something like that with
regards to what's there I want,I want to stay there.
To stay there because you'vementioned your son a few times
and I really haven't given youthe opportunity to tell that
(25:20):
story, but I know it helps youwith your clients as well.
Tell me the story a little bitmore deeper about your son, what
you all went through and thenhow you actually practically
were able to stay in airplanemode as you dealt with that, so
that you could still have yourrelationship with your husband
and still have your business andstill have these things.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Well, it's a big question.
I don't know that we always didit perfectly all the time, but
again, it was all aboutintention.
So the short answer is my sonwas born with a very rare
metabolic disorder.
We had no warning.
I had a perfect pregnancy andit manifested in that originally
he was only supposed to live totwo is what they told us.
(26:00):
He lived to 27, but he wasphysically impaired, never able
to walk, as a result of so hewas what we would term
developmentally delayed and thathe physically was again unable
to walk and then his body juststarted to give out and, as I
said, he was critical for fouryears.
So it was a very long, hardbattle.
I think that my work in part waswhat kept me going, because you
(26:26):
think every day today's goingto be better and you've got
clients and you've got to focuson them, and it got me out of
the hospital and it gave me abreak, if you will, from the
calamity that we were living,but also my faith.
I was born Christian, I'velived that life and I was very
(26:46):
deeply involved in a church herein Orlando where I live, and
the community, the support ofpastors and neighbors and
friends, and all of that, youknow, got us through.
When you're going throughsomething like that again, you
don't even know how traumatic itis until you're on the other
side of it, because you're just,you're in survival, you know.
(27:07):
But he had an amazing life, hewas an amazing human being and
he did to go back to yourquestion he created in me a
level of unconditional love thatI don't know I would have been
capable of otherwise.
And then that prepared me forempathy and you can imagine the
amount of heartache I hear.
(27:27):
For instance, as I traveledaround the country, literally
every day, people would be at mypodium telling me about
something that was going on intheir lives.
And that was a crucial turningpoint for me, because it's when
I started to see the verydetrimental effects of poor
leadership in the stories that Iheard from other people in the
(27:48):
workforce.
And then I started, I developeda whole process for leadership
development and it enabled me toreally walk between the two
worlds of the executive C-suiteand the workforce and have
compassion and empathy for bothsides and then bring them
together.
I think that's one of my strongpoints is I'm able to bring,
(28:08):
you know, all players togetherin a collaborative,
unconditional way, and all ofthat is because of Michael.
My whole career is really atestament to him.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
I love that.
I know again, we have thechildhood stories, but then
those that are closest to us,and you mentioned the community
that's come out of that throughyour church, through those
around you, and how importantthat is to have that community.
That's another one of those.
Frankly, those hustle thingsthat leaders can miss is the
development of community andbeing able to rely on others to
(28:44):
help them through situations.
And that's we were.
We were called to be incommunity with others and serve
and help each other out.
So I appreciate you sharingthat story and I know you've
probably shared it many timesand to help folks understand how
you got through that, dr Spano,I can tell you your strength
that comes through that will gothrough to your clients as well.
(29:06):
So you've got your podcast youmentioned you're rebranding your
podcast.
You've wrote the book Time ofMoney back in 2017.
You've got a lot of knowledge.
You're continuing to gain.
What's next for you, dr Spano?
Tell me what's going on in yourworld.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Well, yeah, it's interesting, I've taken up golf.
Only a crazy person would takeup golf in the third chapter of
life, but I've done that andit's teaching me that there's
more than just working.
I took yesterday morning off toplay golf, which is a very hard
thing for me to do in themiddle of the week, but I've
(29:43):
learned to do that just a coupleof hours.
So there's golf and then thirdquarter.
My goal is to start a book, andI'm not quite sure I've got
several ideas of where, and Iwas just as I was waiting for
you this morning, jotting downsome potential titles.
But I do want to do some workaround the self-leadership and
the things that I've learned,and I do love to write and I
(30:05):
just haven't had the time.
And then again, we'rerebranding the podcast.
So just keep moving forward.
I always say, as long as Godputs people in front of me, I'll
continue to work, and if therecomes a time where I'm no longer
relevant or able to serve inthat way, then I'll just play
more golf, I guess, and hope forbetter scores.
(30:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Well, very exciting because I think that I love the
Irma Bombe quote that I oftenrefer back to is that at the end
of my life, whatever that means, I've exhausted all the gifts
that I was given, and if theonly gift I got left is to play
golf on twice a week on, youknow, tuesday and Thursday
mornings, that's what I'll useand I'll still be sharing with
those that I play golf with, butI want to have used it all up
(30:50):
before I'm completed and I can.
Again, I can sense that you'regoing to do that.
How can folks get in touch withyou, dr Spanner?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Well, obviously you know I'm on social media and
then SharonSpanocom and we havea page promoting your podcast.
So if you go there, it'sSharonSpanocom.
Forward slash uncommon leader,and we have a quiz there called
the leader's edge, which willhelp people see where they are,
what we call the center ofgravity within six of the 12
(31:21):
stages of human development.
I'm very excited about thisbecause we work very hard on
that.
And yeah, sharon Spanocom andmy email, sharon at Sharon
Spanocom.
I'm pretty easy, just Google me.
I'm pretty much everywhere.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I'll be sure to put those links in the show notes
for folks.
I want to thank you for addingvalue to the listeners the
Uncommon Leader podcast, I knowand then certainly by providing
that as a free resource withregards to that leader's edge
test or assessment.
I would encourage the listenersto go out and try that out.
You never know, maybe thathelps to inform your book as
(31:55):
well as you strive to put thatin place.
Finish you with one question,giving you one question, giving
you the last word on the podcast.
I'm going to give you abillboard.
You can put it up in Orlando,there where you're from, or you
can put it up anywhere you wantto.
What's the message you're goingto put on that billboard and
why do you put that message onthere?
Speaker 1 (32:14):
That's a tough one.
I would say know thyself, knowGod.
That's just what comes to thetop of my mind, because if we
don't know ourselves in thecontext of God, I'm not sure
that we really ever knowourselves.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I appreciate you sharing that.
Dr Sharon Spano, thank you somuch for being a guest.
I wish you the best goingforward and have a great day.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
And that wraps up another episode of the Uncommon
Leader Podcast.
Thanks for tuning in today.
If you found value in thisepisode, I encourage you to
share it with your friends,colleagues or anyone else who
could benefit from the insightsand inspiration we've shared.
Also, if you have a moment, I'dgreatly appreciate if you could
leave a rating and review onyour favorite podcast platform.
Your feedback not only helps usto improve, but it also helps
(33:07):
others discover the podcast andjoin our growing community of
uncommon leaders.
Until next time, go and growchampions.
To me, that is the other side of potential.
It's not just what am Imanifesting in terms of my
career and money and you know,climbing the ladder in titles or
whatever it might be, but it'slike who am I in terms of my own
character and what am I doingin the world to make the world a
better place?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey, uncommon Leaders , welcome back.
This is the Uncommon LeaderPodcast.
I'm your host, john Gallagher,real excited about my
conversation today with DrSharon Spano.
She's going to talk aboutsomething that, frankly, has
been on my heart a bunch lately,and that's this idea of how do
I be successful and feelfulfilled at the same time.
Or is there a gap there, drSpano?
(00:46):
She has a PhD in humanorganizational systems.
She blends science and personaldevelopment to guide CEOs and
consultants and entrepreneurstoward radical growth, so I look
forward to talking about thatin terms of a topic as well.
She's also the host of apodcast, the Other Side of
Potential those of you watchingon video can see that behind her
shoulder there and the authorof the Pursuit of Time and Money
(01:07):
.
She shares her insights todayon breaking free from the
emptiness of success and to livelife with purpose.
So, dr Spano, welcome to theUncommon Leader podcast.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I'm doing great.
Thanks so much for having me onboard.
I'm very excited to have thisconversation.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Absolutely, I am as well, and I'll start you off
with the same question that Ialways ask my first time guests,
because it's kind of fun, butto ask you to tell me a story
from your childhood that stillimpacts who you are today as a
person or as a leader.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
That's such a big question, but when I thought
about that, the answer is kindof easy for me.
In that and this may soundcontrary to popular belief but
my parents were divorced andactually that turned out to be a
blessing, in that my father,after a few years, got custody
of us and we were placed with mypaternal grandmother.
(01:57):
And it was not easy because wewere not really wanted there by
my sister and I.
When I say we, my aunts anduncles, my grandmother lived
with them, they had their ownfamily and we were really not
wanted and it was very wellknown that we were not wanted.
I mean, I felt it very much asa four or five-year-old whatever
I was.
(02:18):
But my grandmother turned out tobe just the beacon in my life,
in that she gave me my faith.
She taught me so many things,one being she lost her son in
the war.
And looking back, you and Ihave talked about my losing my
own son years and years later,but I realized my son was
(02:38):
disabled.
My grandmother also wasdisabled, so she really prepared
me for being an advocate forpeople with disabilities.
I didn't even realize thatuntil I went into my master's
program and I was writing a bookabout my own son and my
professor said your grandmotherneeds to be in this book because
, she was the first you know,your first experience with
(02:59):
disability.
So she gave me my faith.
She taught me about disability.
She also taught me about griefand how to lose a son, and I
felt as prepared as you can bewhen you lose a child as a
result of having lived with herand you know hearing the stories
all my whole life about myuncle.
So he died in the war, but shewas the one and my book,
(03:21):
isabel's God, is named after her.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Wow, you know I love first of all, I love stories of
grandmothers who have hadpositive impacts on us, but I
truly love you, sharon, also thestory about your son as well,
and, as you talked about in yourbook, as you go through that
and talking about that journey,oftentimes the people that we
help the most are the ones wewere so much like when we were
(03:46):
young or when we went throughcertain things inside of our
career.
I know many of the times I talkabout who do I talk to in
podcasts and things like that.
It's that person that I was 25years ago looking to kind of
grow.
So you have a tremendousopportunity.
So I am condolences on yourloss.
So I am condolences on yourloss.
(04:07):
I know that's something you'vehad to work through in your
career and clearly, somethingyou're able to show others and
how to get through that.
So let's dive right in.
Ultimately, in terms of thetopic that I'm here talking
about, you talk about a topicbreaking free from the emptiness
of success and to live withpurpose.
So what's the emptiness ofsuccess?
How do I know I have it?
What are the signs of it interms of how you coach people?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, it's such a great question because early in
my career I felt like I workedwith a lot of people who were
climbing the ladder and then inthe last 10 years, as we've seen
people catapult to wealth andsuccess and prosperity as a
result of the internet and allthese pop-ups and angel
investors, as we've seen peoplecatapult to wealth and success
and prosperity, you know, as aresult of the internet and all
these pop-ups and, you know,angel investors, and we've just
(04:49):
seen a lot more people at a lotmore younger ages acquire a
certain level of or a high level, I should say of success.
And then I began to notice inmy clients what I'm now calling
the emptiness of success.
Meaning you know they have themillion dollar plus house, you
know multiple million dollarplus house, you know the
multiple cars, you know all thetoys, but they're not happy,
(05:13):
they don't feel fulfilled.
And I usually get them alongsomewhere in that spectrum.
You know, maybe they're stilltrying to build the business or
scale it, but they've got themoney, but they're just not
happy.
And there's sort of this deeperquestion of is this all there
is?
And I just feel, you know, mywork is grounded in human
(05:33):
development, as you know, andthere are 12 stages of human
development.
So the average American in ourworkforce is at stage five or
six.
So there's room there,obviously, for a lot more of
developmental growth in terms ofour worldviews and perceptions.
And so we really first identifywhere the pain or the emptiness
(05:54):
is, and often they don't evenreally know.
It's something often that theyoriginally think from a concrete
perspective.
I'm having trouble with mypartner, for example, or I'm not
really connected to my kids, orI don't have time for X, y, z,
or I'm having trouble with mypartner, for example, or I'm not
really connected to my kids, orI don't have time for X, y, z,
or I'm, you know, I'm havingtrouble with my team.
So it'll, it'll be initiallysomething very obvious and
concrete, but that's usually notthe answer.
(06:15):
There's usually an abstractsomething beneath all of that
that we have to, you know, lookat.
So, for an example, I workedall last year with the gentleman
who was having trouble with apartner and they were best
friends along the way and ofcourse he's trying to preserve
the friendship as well as thebusiness, and yeah, that's a
(06:36):
very real piece.
And so we could talk abouttactics around that.
But the deeper wound came, andit took us a little while to get
there.
The deeper wound came fromanger, issues that we then
discovered were a result ofembarrassment, and the
embarrassment came from someexperiences that he had had in
(06:56):
his early childhood.
I'm not talking about looking,it's not therapy.
I'm not a therapist.
We're not looking back in theway that we would in therapy
although I think there's a timeand a place for that but I like
to say to my clients we're goingto look backward just long
enough to discover what's reallygoing on here, but we're not
going to stare at the page.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So I love that, and you can talk about those
different stages.
We could dive into that alittle bit.
We different stages, we coulddive into that a little bit.
We get to a certain point,because I think about these
leaders, and many that I workwith as well.
They've got to your point.
They've got the book definitionof success, they've got a
successful business which hasresulted to your point in
(07:38):
multiple items of stuff homes,cars, boats, whatever those
things are, trips and all thosethings that they have.
But how do they end up comingto you?
Then?
There's something that'smissing, right, because I often
talk about, well, change, whenthe displeasure of remaining the
same is greater than the changeor greater than the pain of the
change itself.
And so they're coming to you,probably saying I need to scale
(08:02):
my business.
But you know right off the bat,that's not where they are.
How do you get them there?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Right.
Well, often they know they'reunhappy, that'll be it, you know
.
They'll know they're unhappy,pardon me and often they really
can't even define what happinesswould look like for them,
because they've spent a big partof their lives thinking I will
be happy if I acquire XYZ.
But now I have XYZ and I'mstill not happy.
(08:28):
So we have to kind of again getto the root, and I think that's
where coaching or consultingcomes in.
Is it's very difficult to get tothe root of the issue by
yourself.
I mean, obviously, if we coulddo that, we would just do it.
So I think you need to walkalongside someone who can help
you really.
You know, we're trained asconsultants, as coaches, as even
(08:51):
therapists, obviously to listento what's not being said, and
then I do things.
I have a 12-week process calledPotential Unleashed, where I
bring together all of mytraining and experience in the
field.
It's really a hybrid ofeverything I've experienced
throughout the many years thatI've been in the field, in and
out of corporate America, and Ihave certain tools in there, and
(09:11):
one of those tools is we lookat the genogram, which is
looking at the family history,because we know now that many
things that we carry comethrough the family line
literally, and so I find it'svery interesting in that some of
my clients may be unhappy, butthey have a perfect life, and
that unhappiness comes from whatwe call in my business a hidden
(09:34):
loyalty to an ancestor.
So, for instance, if my motherwas never happy, you know now I
have the perfect marriage andwonderful kids and a great
business and a loving husband.
Well, how can I be happy?
My mother was never happy, andI carry that internally without
even knowing that that'shappening.
So then I have processes thathelp us break through those
(09:56):
perspectives and reframewhatever is going on in the
individual's life.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I love that as a process.
Jefferson Bethke, john Tyson,wrote a book that I read last
year called Fighting Shadows,and some of those shadows really
were those things that kept usfrom becoming the person who we
were called to be, whether it'sfrom the perspective of faith or
it's from the perspective ofbusiness.
One of the shadows thatidentified there were one word
(10:22):
was ambition, the Uh.
The other one is guilt, uh, or,and even the third one being
shame.
Three of those seven that justthey're coming back to me as you
tell their stories, and soyou're talking about that.
Even in recognizing that it, itgoes um back further Uh.
You talk a good bit about howto balance ambition, uh, which
(10:43):
can be shadow, it can be both agood thing and a bad thing with
fulfillment.
So, in your experience, whatare some of those struggles that
cause that for leaders to havean out of balance with ambition
and fulfillment?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Well, I think what you just stated is very accurate
in that, pardon me, when yousay guilt, I think of my own
career and how unwittingly myown mother constantly made me
feel guilt and shame over mysuccess and my husband's success
(11:16):
, with just a phrase, you know,she would say well, that must be
nice.
I never got to do that, youknow, if we were going on a trip
or we bought a new house, andit took me many, many years.
When I wrote the book on timeand money, I wrote it because I
was seeing that many of myclients had either a lot of time
and no money or a lot of moneyand no time.
And so I looked at theexperience of time and money
(11:37):
through the lens ofdevelopmental growth.
And that was one of my growingedges was I had to get past my
own scarcity perspectives andshame over success.
You know, I was always verydriven and I came from a very
poor family and so I was drivento get out of those environments
(11:59):
.
But then I had this mother whowas a very loving mother and,
honestly again, did not mean tocreate that in me.
But I would interpret it asshame and guilt because my
mother had a hard life and shenever had a marriage like I have
.
You know, she had threehusbands and none of them were
very good and I chose oppositeof those three because of her,
(12:22):
because I knew I don't ever wantto live in that, but I had a
lot of shame and guilt about it.
And so those are the kinds ofthings that I see they're very
subtle again, subconsciousthings that we all carry out, of
those hidden loyalties.
There's actually four hiddenloyalties that we've identified
in the research and everything Ido is also looking at the
system, both the personal system, family system, individual
(12:46):
system, as well as theorganizational system.
So when you look at thoseprinciples, it's very easy for
my clients then to go.
That's me.
I have a hidden loyalty to mymother, my father, or there was
an uncle or there was agrandfather who was a Flander,
and I see that in my family lineand I don't want to go in that
(13:06):
direction.
I always say with the firstmoment of awareness comes
opportunity for change.
So I'm really kind of themirror, I'm the crucible, I'm
holding up the mirror and thenwhen they start to see
themselves, part of what I do isteach them how to witness
themselves in the moment, thenthe change is more automatic.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Hey listeners, I want to take a quick moment to share
something special with you.
Many of the topics anddiscussions we have on this
podcast are areas where Iprovide coaching and consulting
services for individuals andorganizations.
If you've been inspired by ourconversation and are seeking a
catalyst for change in your ownlife or within your team, I
invite you to visitcoachjohngallaghercom forward
(13:47):
slash free call to sign up for afree coaching call with me.
It's an opportunity for us toconnect, discuss your unique
challenges and explore howcoaching or consulting can
benefit you and your team.
Okay, let's get back to theshow.
I'm writing a note here becauseI think you flew by it so fast
(14:08):
and maybe you've just said it somany times.
So the first sign of awarenessprovides an opportunity to make
a change.
That's a huge statement.
I want folks to kind of almostagain I don't often say rewind
or whatever that is you hit the15 second back or 30 second back
button to listen to that quoteand make sure it's correct.
But again, we're also back toyou're able to help others
(14:31):
because you went through it,because you experienced it,
because you had those things,and so, aside from yourself, is
there a client without sharinganything that you're not allowed
to share.
Who you have been able to help,that you frankly feel really
I'll use the term proud of itmight not be the right word, but
certainly feel fulfilled withbeing able to help them out and
what that story was like.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, let me just for one second call attention and
thank you for stopping me onthat quote, because I do say it
so often, but I think thatwhat's what's important about it
is typically, when we have amoment of awareness about
something you know, to use yourlanguage and common
psychological language, a shadowwithin us, we go to shame and
(15:13):
my mission in life is to helppeople go know.
No, when you have thatawareness, that's really God
just knocking you on the head,going here's a moment for growth
.
Let's go with that instead ofgoing to shame, because there's
no shame, as we know, andcertainly from a spiritual
perspective has no place inGod's world.
So I wanted to say that.
And then, in terms of clients,well, I have to say I'm so proud
(15:46):
for all of them because theyall do such.
That's right.
And I recently had just thisamazing young man, 32 years old.
When he came to me, felt likehe was failing because, quote, I
only have a condo and I can'thave all of my relatives here to
my home because I only have acondo.
And he's a young married manwith a new baby.
(16:07):
And I said let's reframe that.
You don't only have a condo,only have a condo.
You have a half a million dollarcondo in California which very
few 32-year-olds could probablypull off.
Plus, he's got an amazing job.
He's a brilliant young man, butwhat we discovered in the work
with him was this need to provehimself which was actually
(16:29):
sabotaging.
His success in the company camefrom one sentence that his
father his father was animmigrant and he was born here
in the United States.
And one sentence that hisfather said similar to my mother
, just not even realizing theimpact it would have on his boy
is that you always have to workvery hard here in America or you
(16:52):
will be left behind.
And so no matter.
And you can just see a fatherinnocently saying that, giving
advice to his boy.
But he was like six at the timeand what it instilled in him
was this need to prove myselfI'm never going to be enough.
And he was carrying that.
So we were able to do the work,embrace his culture, embrace
(17:16):
his father's wisdom, and reframethat wisdom and free him up so
that he now knows no, I amenough, and look what I've done
and you look yet how muchfurther I can go and bless the
rest of my family.
So when we finished the 12-weeksession, we both were in tears
because I hated to let him go,but he was ready and what he
(17:39):
said to me at the end was one ofthe greatest things any of my
clients has ever said, becausein the final moments he said I'm
trying to figure out why I'm soemotional about this parting.
And he said I think it'sbecause it's the first time I
have ever really felt seen byanyone and I want to thank you
for that.
And that to me was I mean,that's the essence of my work.
(18:01):
That's what I'm trying to doeverywhere I go is help people
belong and feel seen, becausethere's enough places where we
feel we're not enough and don'tbelong and we certainly don't
need any more of that in ourlives.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Amen.
The solution sometimes is tosome of those shadows, to some
of those words that we talkedabout are just affirmations in
yourself.
First, again, both of you, atleast both of us.
What I hear from you in termsof faith is that we recognize
that we are made in the image ofGod and there were no accidents
and we are great in His eye andthat's the only eye that we are
made in the image of God andthere were no accidents and we
are great in his eye and that'sthe only eye that we need, if
(18:38):
you will.
But outside of that is creating.
What I heard you say, too, arethese almost affirmation
statements.
These, I am, statements thatfolks are talking about that I
am worthy, that I am enough,that I am, you know, getting
back to faith, a child of God,or I am successful, um, and
regardless of what I was told,uh, before, those are just not
(18:59):
true statements, and being ableto start to believe and have
faith and then be faithful tothose activities is so important
.
I appreciate sharing that story, uh, and the impact you had.
I can I can sense that in yourvoice how how much that meant to
you.
It's like those mic dropmoments when somebody says
something like that, you're likemy work is done and you could
almost say I can turn the phoneoff and I don't have to talk to
(19:22):
anybody else anymore.
That's how I want it to end, soto speak, is to hear something
like that.
I appreciate you sharing that.
Let's shift just a little bitabout you.
Your podcast back behind yourshoulder there those who watch
on YouTube is titled the OtherSide of Potential.
So let's break down that titlea little bit.
(19:43):
Tell me what you see aspotential and how you define
that.
And then what's the other side?
Tell me a little bit about yourpodcast.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah, we decided and I'm actually rebranding it, but
with great hesitation because Ilove this title.
But we decided on the other sidewhen I started this several
years ago, because we realizedthat I was always working with
people for to the to the greaterend, not just about scaling the
business I ran across in mycareer as I traveled across
(20:09):
North America and I was in andout.
One point point I was in 100 andsome odd cities a year.
It was ridiculous.
And so I started to really seethat again people were scaling
and working hard and climbingthat ladder, but again the
self-leadership part was missing.
(20:30):
And to me that is the otherside of potential.
It's not just what am Imanifesting in terms of my
career and money and climbingthe ladder in titles or whatever
it might be, but it's like whoam I in terms of my own
character and what am I doing inthe world to make the world a
better place?
And so the other side ofpotential to me is looking at
(20:53):
the whole self, because I don'tbelieve we can compartmentalize,
we're not one way at work andthen we come home and kick the
dog and leave the wife.
We need to be whole leaders andso that was in the beginning.
I was only interviewing CEOs totalk about how they did in fact
manage the complexity of theirbusinesses and the world they
(21:14):
were living in in the context ofliving what I call an
integrated life, because I'm notsure that I really believe it's
semantics but I don't reallybelieve that balanced life can
ever be fully realized, becauselife hits us.
So, for instance, when my sonwas critical, he was critical
for four years and we were justin and out of hospitals.
You know I had to makedecisions.
(21:36):
You know you keep the businessgoing but you don't have time to
go to the gym.
You don't have time.
I barely could get to church onSunday because I was at the
hospital.
So you're always makingdecisions on the whole life as
you're trying to keep thebusiness going and manage your
family and your own health andall those things.
So to me that is the other sideof potential.
It's it's looking at all of it.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Love that and I love the holistic approach too.
I think it's it's to your point.
You cannot compartmentalize asa leader.
It just doesn't work.
I mean, then now you're talkingabout character and integrity
and all those things that startcoming into play with the rest
of those people outside of yourlife, and I think you're spot on
.
It actually makes a lot ofsense.
(22:19):
Let's bring it on the bottomshelf for folks then, just a
little bit, because you talkabout a term from hustle to
harmony.
What does that look likepractically for executives?
What are two or three thingsthey can do to move from hustle
the badge of honor of busynessto harmony, which because
there's probably no real balanceto your point, that exists in
(22:39):
life, but harmony is good.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I think you know I'm having to do more and more work
around this, even with very high, high-level people, and I think
the first thing is to recognizethat at the end of the day, it
is never going to be done.
You know I'm meeting moreleaders who are like well, I
don't have enough hours in theday, and I think you have to, at
some point, identify two tothree things, major things that
(23:03):
you know you're going toaccomplish each day, each week,
each quarter.
You know and be realistic thatbecause of the world we're
living in and the technologythat is at our fingertips, we're
constantly being bombarded withtext, emails, boxers.
You know all these things Atsome point, just saying the day
is over and now my time and beand be, and really I'm working
(23:26):
with someone right now.
I'm having to teach him how tobe present with his own family
because they're all on theircell phones through dinner and
you dinner and you can't expectto have harmony with your
teenagers if you've not beenpresent to them throughout their
lives.
So you know it's a hard sellhere, but to me it's the hustle
is making decisions about theseare the main things for the day,
(23:50):
like I said, and then get thosedone and then lay it down and
be okay with that and be presentwherever you are.
When I'm on vacation, like Isaid, and then get those done
and then lay it down and be okaywith that and be present
wherever you are.
When I'm on vacation like I wasin Boca last week for Easter
for three days with friends I'min Boca with friends and this
doesn't mean I don't pick up myphone and check a thing here or
there, but I have the greaterintention of being present
(24:13):
wherever I am.
And that took me many years tolearn how to do that and I
attribute it to my son becausewith Michael, you know, being
disabled, he required a lot.
It was like having five or sixchildren many times and I just
had to learn how to integratethe complexity of him because he
was multiple systems in one,and then the work that I'm doing
(24:37):
and about, and then somewherein there trying to fit in a
husband.
So that was.
But we both had the samepriority, which was always
Michael, and so that made themarriage work and also was what
helped us sustain through theloss, was the commitment was
always there to him and theneach other.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
That's it.
You know, I think about thislike we want this airplane mode
button for our life ultimately,that the distractions are turned
off.
I don't know.
I kind of thought that almostlike a title book.
I want to live in airplane modeor something like that with
regards to what's there I want,I want to stay there.
To stay there because you'vementioned your son a few times
and I really haven't given youthe opportunity to tell that
(25:20):
story, but I know it helps youwith your clients as well.
Tell me the story a little bitmore deeper about your son, what
you all went through and thenhow you actually practically
were able to stay in airplanemode as you dealt with that, so
that you could still have yourrelationship with your husband
and still have your business andstill have these things.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Well, it's a big question.
I don't know that we always didit perfectly all the time, but
again, it was all aboutintention.
So the short answer is my sonwas born with a very rare
metabolic disorder.
We had no warning.
I had a perfect pregnancy andit manifested in that originally
he was only supposed to live totwo is what they told us.
(26:00):
He lived to 27, but he wasphysically impaired, never able
to walk, as a result of so hewas what we would term
developmentally delayed and thathe physically was again unable
to walk and then his body juststarted to give out and, as I
said, he was critical for fouryears.
So it was a very long, hardbattle.
I think that my work in part waswhat kept me going, because you
(26:26):
think every day today's goingto be better and you've got
clients and you've got to focuson them, and it got me out of
the hospital and it gave me abreak, if you will, from the
calamity that we were living,but also my faith.
I was born Christian, I'velived that life and I was very
(26:46):
deeply involved in a church herein Orlando where I live, and
the community, the support ofpastors and neighbors and
friends, and all of that, youknow, got us through.
When you're going throughsomething like that again, you
don't even know how traumatic itis until you're on the other
side of it, because you're just,you're in survival, you know.
(27:07):
But he had an amazing life, hewas an amazing human being and
he did to go back to yourquestion he created in me a
level of unconditional love thatI don't know I would have been
capable of otherwise.
And then that prepared me forempathy and you can imagine the
amount of heartache I hear.
(27:27):
For instance, as I traveledaround the country, literally
every day, people would be at mypodium telling me about
something that was going on intheir lives.
And that was a crucial turningpoint for me, because it's when
I started to see the verydetrimental effects of poor
leadership in the stories that Iheard from other people in the
(27:48):
workforce.
And then I started, I developeda whole process for leadership
development and it enabled me toreally walk between the two
worlds of the executive C-suiteand the workforce and have
compassion and empathy for bothsides and then bring them
together.
I think that's one of my strongpoints is I'm able to bring,
(28:08):
you know, all players togetherin a collaborative,
unconditional way, and all ofthat is because of Michael.
My whole career is really atestament to him.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
I love that.
I know again, we have thechildhood stories, but then
those that are closest to us,and you mentioned the community
that's come out of that throughyour church, through those
around you, and how importantthat is to have that community.
That's another one of those.
Frankly, those hustle thingsthat leaders can miss is the
development of community andbeing able to rely on others to
(28:44):
help them through situations.
And that's we were.
We were called to be incommunity with others and serve
and help each other out.
So I appreciate you sharingthat story and I know you've
probably shared it many timesand to help folks understand how
you got through that, dr Spano,I can tell you your strength
that comes through that will gothrough to your clients as well.
(29:06):
So you've got your podcast youmentioned you're rebranding your
podcast.
You've wrote the book Time ofMoney back in 2017.
You've got a lot of knowledge.
You're continuing to gain.
What's next for you, dr Spano?
Tell me what's going on in yourworld.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Well, yeah, it's interesting, I've taken up golf.
Only a crazy person would takeup golf in the third chapter of
life, but I've done that andit's teaching me that there's
more than just working.
I took yesterday morning off toplay golf, which is a very hard
thing for me to do in themiddle of the week, but I've
(29:43):
learned to do that just a coupleof hours.
So there's golf and then thirdquarter.
My goal is to start a book, andI'm not quite sure I've got
several ideas of where, and Iwas just as I was waiting for
you this morning, jotting downsome potential titles.
But I do want to do some workaround the self-leadership and
the things that I've learned,and I do love to write and I
(30:05):
just haven't had the time.
And then again, we'rerebranding the podcast.
So just keep moving forward.
I always say, as long as Godputs people in front of me, I'll
continue to work, and if therecomes a time where I'm no longer
relevant or able to serve inthat way, then I'll just play
more golf, I guess, and hope forbetter scores.
(30:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Well, very exciting because I think that I love the
Irma Bombe quote that I oftenrefer back to is that at the end
of my life, whatever that means, I've exhausted all the gifts
that I was given, and if theonly gift I got left is to play
golf on twice a week on, youknow, tuesday and Thursday
mornings, that's what I'll useand I'll still be sharing with
those that I play golf with, butI want to have used it all up
(30:50):
before I'm completed and I can.
Again, I can sense that you'regoing to do that.
How can folks get in touch withyou, dr Spanner?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Well, obviously you know I'm on social media and
then SharonSpanocom and we havea page promoting your podcast.
So if you go there, it'sSharonSpanocom.
Forward slash uncommon leader,and we have a quiz there called
the leader's edge, which willhelp people see where they are,
what we call the center ofgravity within six of the 12
(31:21):
stages of human development.
I'm very excited about thisbecause we work very hard on
that.
And yeah, sharon Spanocom andmy email, sharon at Sharon
Spanocom.
I'm pretty easy, just Google me.
I'm pretty much everywhere.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I'll be sure to put those links in the show notes
for folks.
I want to thank you for addingvalue to the listeners the
Uncommon Leader podcast, I knowand then certainly by providing
that as a free resource withregards to that leader's edge
test or assessment.
I would encourage the listenersto go out and try that out.
You never know, maybe thathelps to inform your book as
(31:55):
well as you strive to put thatin place.
Finish you with one question,giving you one question, giving
you the last word on the podcast.
I'm going to give you abillboard.
You can put it up in Orlando,there where you're from, or you
can put it up anywhere you wantto.
What's the message you're goingto put on that billboard and
why do you put that message onthere?
Speaker 1 (32:14):
That's a tough one.
I would say know thyself, knowGod.
That's just what comes to thetop of my mind, because if we
don't know ourselves in thecontext of God, I'm not sure
that we really ever knowourselves.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I appreciate you sharing that.
Dr Sharon Spano, thank you somuch for being a guest.
I wish you the best goingforward and have a great day.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
And that wraps up another episode of the Uncommon
Leader Podcast.
Thanks for tuning in today.
If you found value in thisepisode, I encourage you to
share it with your friends,colleagues or anyone else who
could benefit from the insightsand inspiration we've shared.
Also, if you have a moment, I'dgreatly appreciate if you could
leave a rating and review onyour favorite podcast platform.
Your feedback not only helps usto improve, but it also helps
(33:07):
others discover the podcast andjoin our growing community of
uncommon leaders.
Until next time, go and growchampions.
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