The Stories That Shape Us: Leading, Parenting, and Leaving a Legacy Through Storytelling with Steve Mann

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Storytelling has been how we have conveyed
information and wisdom, and weseem to have lost that in our
busy, busy era where we'reconstantly listening to things
or on the net or on the socialmedia, or watching news or
something that we listen, listen, listen to all that information
, but we have a hard timeprocessing it time processing.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hey, Uncommon Leaders , welcome back.
This is the Uncommon LeaderPodcast and I'm your host, John
Gallagher.
I've got a great episodeplanned for you.
Today.
We're exploring a timeless andpowerful tool that often gets
overlooked in business and inleadership, and that's the power
of storytelling.
And our guide today instorytelling is Steve Mann, a
global entrepreneur.
He's a philanthropist but alsoa mentor, who understands the

(00:51):
profound impact of sharing yourpersonal story and the impact
that it can have for generationsto come.
His new book, Stories thatShape Us, is a practical guide
to passing down wisdom, love andjoy to the next generation, and
I know that he believes in thepower of stories.
We've had some conversationbefore we even got started to
connect families, to teachinvaluable lessons for life and

(01:12):
create a lasting legacy.
So, Steve, welcome to theUncommon Leader Podcast.
Great to have you on the show.
How are you doing today?

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Doing great and it's great to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, I'm looking forward to our conversation.
I'll start you off with thesame first question that I ask
all my first-time guests, andthat's for you to tell me a
story from your childhood thatstill impacts who you are today,
as a person or as a leader.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
You know, that's actually kind of a hard question
, because where do you start?
There's so many stories andthat childhood and all those
stories are what shaped me andwhat shaped all of us.
But maybe I could just tell one.
I grew up on a farm in Idahopotato farm and I remember as a
young boy I just hated that andI was out hoeing weeds around

(02:01):
something and I was getting madat being out there out hoeing
weeds around something and I wasgetting mad at being out there,
so I was whacking that hole allover and chomping things down,
and up comes my dad in hispickup and I thought, oh, I am
in big trouble.
And he gets out of his pickupand he sits down with me by a
sandpipe there, big cement waterdevice, and I'm thinking what's

(02:25):
going on here?
And he starts telling me thisstory of the frog who fell into
the milk.
We've all heard this story andrather than drown, he just kept
going, just kept going, justkept going and turned the milk
into butter and jumped out.
And what could have been, Iguess, an explosive kind of

(02:48):
situation with my dad turnedinto a terrific learning
experience, because he told me astory and I listened and
obviously that story has stayedwith me for the last 70 years.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Those stories stay with you Love that and it leads
right into the conversationabout your book, right, and I
love how those stories connect.
I mean, I believe that I mightlearn just as much today going
through this episode, and so myquestions might sound a little
bit almost selfish.
So I hope the listeners reallystay in touch with this as well,
because I do think leaders aregreat storytellers and that

(03:30):
doesn't have to be that they aremaking those things up, but
it's saving that up in wisdom.
Now your book Stories to ShapeUs.
What was it about that book?
Who did you write it for?
And what was it about that bookthat you wanted folks to take
away?

Speaker 1 (03:45):
I have written this for parents, grandparents,
great-grandparents, because Ithink we live in a world where
kids and grandkids get so muchof their information from the
internet, from social media, andwhat they get is data.
They get information, media andwhat they get is data.

(04:06):
They get information, but theydon't get the connections, they
don't get the perspective thatcomes from a relative telling a
story.
So I wrote this in part to tellmy own story to my own
grandchildren, but also to tryto teach others that you can do
this, you can tell stories andhere's how you do it.
I think we we talk about foodand we talk about the weather

(04:30):
and we talk about sports, but weseldom talk about things that
are important to us uh, values,principles, beliefs and we
usually don't know quite how toget into those.
And stories make a great way todo that if we know how to use it
so you know I I really hopethat people, as they go through

(04:51):
the book, they learn how to telltheir own stories, they learn
how to pass on their wisdom andtheir love and their concern to
the next generation, and thatthey have a fun time doing it.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
We're going to get into some really cool stuff,
because you talk about thescience of storytelling as well
and the impact it can have interms of the memory you talked
about that a little bit, justwith your frog in the milk story
and turning it into butter.
See, I still remember that aswell, and 70 years ago, and what
the impact can have.
But before we get into that,what do you see, or what have
you seen, are some of thebarriers that prevent people

(05:29):
from sharing their stories orbecoming a good storyteller.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
I think too many people.
If you ask them, tell mestories, no, I've never done
anything important.
And so I start saying thingslike well, tell me when you were
in college, what did you dothere?
And what do they do?
They start telling me stories.
Tell me about when you weregrowing up.

(05:56):
And they start telling mestories.
And so I kind of then turnaround and say, see, you just
told me about five stories.
You do have them, you justdon't think about it.
So I encourage people to just goto different parts of their
life and maybe say what happenedhere and then come up with some

(06:16):
stories about it.
But you know, these areimportant to me.
But I can't sit down with agrandson and say, look, I've got
a lecture on wisdom today.
Well, you've just lost it there.
But if you tell that grandson astory, then they're asking the

(06:42):
questions.
Maybe I could just share astory for that.
That helped me guide me to writethis book.
I was telling stories to myseven-year-old grandson about
his uncles, my two youngest sons, who happened to be black, and
I was telling them about howtheir uncles would often be not
often, but periodically befollowed home from school by

(07:04):
police because of their skincolor and he looked at me and
said that's dumb, why would theydo that?
So that led to a discussion ofprejudice and discrimination,
and you know it's not easy toexplain something like that to a
seven-year-old.
And the next morning we were atbreakfast with his parents and

(07:32):
he brought it up again and weended up with quite a long
discussion about prejudice anddiscrimination, and so it really
taught me how a story can leadinto a discussion of really
important values and beliefs.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
I love that you can tie that back in again.
It only took a story togenerate the curiosity, and to
have the curiosity of aseven-year-old, I'm sure makes
it even more interesting to tellthat story.
So I think that's one of thethings that I see as a barrier
is folks.
They get it.
You know, as you said, thattell me about college or tell me

(08:09):
about your high school daysversus what do you do for a job,
Well, that's differentconversationally than tell me
about something that's happenedin your past.
You know you emphasize thestories are more memorable than
advice, and that might be partof it, right?
Let me tell you about wisdom.
What's the psychology behindthat?
Is there something that's therewith regards to what you've
learned, that folks learn betterfrom stories or parables than

(08:32):
they do from advice?

Speaker 1 (08:35):
You know, I think it's kind of innate.
You know, you go to France andthe caves and the cave paintings
here and about the oldest kindof communication we know.
And what were they doing?
They were trying to depictstories of the hunt and the
hunter.
Why?
Because their survival dependedon that.

(08:56):
But even back then they wereusing stories to try to convey
wisdom and information to theirchildren and hopefully sometimes
grandchildren, and that hasstayed with us in every culture.
That I know of, storytelling hasbeen how we have conveyed
information and wisdom and weseem to have kind of lost that

(09:21):
in our busy, busy era wherewe're constantly listening to
things, or on the net or on thesocial media, or watching news
or something on the net or onthe social media, or watching
news or something that we listen, listen, listen to all that
information but we have a hardtime processing it, we have a
hard time putting it inperspective and um and in in

(09:46):
listening to all that stuff,we've quit talking to each other
.
Think how many of us havesomebody in our family who we
don't talk to anymore because ofdifferences on political issues
.
I have this little group I meetwith on Mondays and it's people
about my age, seventies andeighties and we just have

(10:09):
somebody come and talk or havesomebody play the violin or
something.
So one day I said, you know and, by the way, this is a group of
engineers, nuclear physicists,geneticists.
I said what if we just took atopic of today's political world

(10:30):
and had a discussion?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,we might offend somebody.
We can't do that, we just gotto do things.
And so here's this group ofpeople who I would really like
to know their opinions on thingsand how they develop those
opinions, and they're notwilling to do that.

(10:52):
I'm hopeful when the book comesout I can get them all a copy
and say, okay, let's go to thischapter on talking about
controversial issues and I'llread that.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, let's hear it Come on Because I know, here's
what I hear before we even tellthe story.
It's one thing this is the oldwives' tale.
There's two things that youdon't talk about at the dinner
table, especially if there'salcohol involved, and that's
religion and politics.
So help me talk about thosethings without alcohol being
involved and not getting anybodyupset.
That's here, Steve.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Well, I think the first thing is is you need to
set some ground rules, becausewe don't do this all the time.
It's a now it strangeexperience, a different
experience, and we usually gointo things like that and our
determination is to we're goingto convert the other person, and
so the first ground rule I saythat we need to look at is the

(11:45):
purpose isn't to convert, thepurpose is to learn.
Okay, and I think right off thebat, if two people or two
groups agree that that's theirpurpose, all of a sudden it's
easier, and we kind of monitorthat as they go on.
The next thing I say is thefirst thing we've got to do is

(12:05):
ask questions and listen, andwhen we're listening, it isn't
to come up with the argument,it's to understand.
Well, those are just a few ofthe ground rules, but I think if
we could just do those twothings, we could end up in some
productive discussions.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
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(12:44):
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Now let's get back to theepisode.
Love that.
Stay curious.

(13:05):
I had a friend who advised meone time when reading a book.
He says don't read a book toagree or disagree with the book.
Read a book to learn.
And then that second componentyou're talking about.
You get asked questions, butthey're not questions like well,
why would you say somethinglike that?
It's in this form of aclarifying, non-leading question
so tell me more about this, orwhat did you mean by this when

(13:27):
you said it and then the tone.
But yeah, I agree, steve, if wecould just follow those two
rules in storytelling, we wouldbe able to talk about those
things at the table, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
You know, I think our whole society is built toward
polarization.
If we go on the Internet, thealgorithms force us to one side
and pretty soon all we hear isfurther and further out, and
they don't bring us to themiddle to try to understand.
And so we have tended to pickthat up in our personal lives

(13:58):
and you can see what that'sdoing to our country, we see
what that does to our families.
So I think it's really criticalthat we learn how to talk.
You know, I had a just terrificprofessor in graduate school and
one of the things he had us dois we would take his class and

(14:20):
we'd take one week and hear allthe positive sides of a topic
like environmentalism.
Then we'd hear all thenegatives and we'd debate it.
Then we'd move to a new topicAll the cons, all the pros and
then debate.
And at the end of the class Isat down with him and he said
what do you like, what do youthink of the class?

(14:41):
I said well, I love the class.
Yeah, it was invigorating, butI also kind of hated it.
He said well, why is that?
I said because I love beingpassionately devoted to a cause
and when I understand both sidesit's harder to do that, and he
looked at me and he smiled.
They said, steve, that's therole of the educated person to

(15:06):
try to keep both sides fromkilling each other while you
help them work towards solutions.
And that just stayed with me mywhole life.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Another story.
There you go, steve.
You're still telling stories asto how things work.
Steve, help me become a betterstoryteller.
What are some of the keyelements, then, of a story that
make it effective?
You talked about the groundrules before you get started,
but what makes up a good storythat is memorable and especially
, again in the context ofparenting grandparents that one

(15:40):
that stays for generations?

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Well, I think the first thing is just to start.
You know you don't have tostart with a story that has a
big moral behind it.
You don't have to start withsome complicated story.
Kids, just like anything.
In fact, that's kind of how Igot into it.
I was reading books.

(16:04):
Children's books to grandkidsran out.
They said well, tell ussomething about you, grandpa.
I said, well, tell us somethingabout you, grandpa.
So I kind of okay.
So I started telling stories ofgrowing up and they loved it.
I couldn't believe it.
It didn't have to have a moral,didn't have to have anything to
follow it.
They just loved hearing thestories and I think part of that

(16:27):
was they could make connectionsbetween me and my life and them
and that helped them getperspective and a sense of
belonging.
So the first thing I'd say isjust start.
It could be silly, it could behard, it could be a failure.
You know it doesn't have to beanything.

(16:48):
Just tell the story and enjoyit, and tell some stories like
that and have fun and ask themto tell their stories, and then
maybe somewhere along the lineyou'll see the chance to talk
about that a little deeper orone of the kids may ask you a
question well, why did thathappen?
And now you're into aconversation, and that's really

(17:12):
what I would like to see happenis to see grandparents parents
in meaningful conversations withtheir children.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
You know, as you say that, steve, again there's some
things that come to my mind aswe were sharing before we get
started.
My dad has passed away recentlyand while we were there we got
to go through some bins ofphotos that were there and you
know, every one of those photoshas a story, but the one that
that touched us the mostactually was was actually a box
he had from his father that wehad never seen before and we

(17:44):
opened it up and my, mygrandfather had passed away when
I was just a year old, over 50years ago.
We opened that up and it was abox full of stories.
It was his wallet from that hewas carrying the week he passed
away, and a driver's licensewith no photo and the different
membership cards that he had, adifferent, uh, and I'm just

(18:04):
imagining kind of that.
And you know, these, thesethings that we have right here
that we carry around every day,have got photos inside of them
that are stories just waiting tobe told, because the photo
itself is a reminder, but thestory that goes along with it is
what really starts to bepowerful.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
You know, we do kind of the same thing.
I'm looking at it over here.
We've got a Knicks play and thatjust a screen oh yeah like this
and pictures go through, andit's got thousands and thousands
of pictures on it now.
And, uh, when the grandkids arehere, they get locked in front
of that and then they'reshutting it off and asking is
well, what, what's happeninghere, what's going on?

(18:48):
Uh and I shouldn't just say thegrandkids it turns on if you
walk by it with a motion sensor,and I walk by at night turning
lights off, and all of a suddenit goes on and I get stuck.
I'm there for the next hourwatching these pictures and
thinking of things that happened.
And so and you say why?

(19:11):
I think again, because it givesus connections.
It's one thing to get a pieceof data.
It's a whole different thing toconnect with that data.
Say, I understand, you know, mygrandfather had a similar thing
.
He went through that.
Maybe I can too.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
You know those stories are so powerful and you
touched on this again fromgenerations to come.
What's some advice that youhave as well?
Like these stories are sopowerful, and you touched on
this again from generations tocome.
What's some advice that youhave as well?
Like these stories are beingtold, like how do you capture
those stories that you cancontinue to pass them down?

Speaker 1 (19:40):
You know, I have an interesting process I sometimes
go through, and when I startedto write the book I didn't have
a list of stories, but when Iwould think about it at night
and I go to sleep and I guessyour brain processes things when
you're asleep invariably I'd beup at 3 o'clock writing down or

(20:01):
sending myself messages, emailsto myself.
Remember when this happened.
Remember when this happened, Ihad a friend, a neighbor, who
was telling me some storiesabout growing up in Las Vegas in
the 50s.
Las Vegas was a very segregatedtown and when he was about 16,

(20:21):
his dad sent him over to work inhis uncle's laundry.
They did laundry for the hotelsand this laundry was in the
black section of town and he wasthe only white kid there and he
had this boss who he reallydidn't like and he felt he was

(20:43):
lazy and didn't do anything.
And after several years there,his boss said could you give me
a ride home?
Okay, didn't like the idea, buthe did it.
And then it was well, could yougive me a ride home?
Okay, didn't like the idea, buthe did it.
And then it was well, could youpick me up?
Well, he didn't like thateither, but he did it.
And then he said well, couldyou kind of honk here so I don't

(21:03):
have to get up any earlier whenyou get here?
He said could you, lazy guy?
Finally he is talking to him andfinds out that he got married
in high school and he and hiswife both work two jobs.
His kids are now just about tostart college but he works two
full time jobs and he doesn'tknow how to read or write, but

(21:28):
he has learned how to get peopleto do things.
So he is promoted and promotedand all of a sudden his whole
attitude changed and I said haveyou written this down anywhere?
I said no.
No, he says no, who cares?
I said you know what?
Sometime out in the future,your great grandson, who you

(21:51):
don't know, might pick up thisstory and he's reading about his
grandfather, great grandfather.
He's going wow, I never thoughtof that and that would give him
a whole new perspective.
And he looks at me and goesyou're right, it could.
I'd go home and write that downthis afternoon.
I go home and write that downthis afternoon.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Anyway, I think we underestimate the power that our
stories can have with futuregenerations.
So cool Writing it down, If wejust think about that.
I mean having prompts orwhatever that is to help us out,
to get us through, you don't?

Speaker 1 (22:31):
have to write down the whole story.
Just write down.
It was about this,no-transcript.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Steve, your book is going to be out.
Folks are going to read it.
They're going to put it on abookshelf, just like the one
that's behind me.
After they read it, a yearlater, they're going to see the
binder of that book sitting onthe shelf still.
When they see that binder, ayear later, after they've read
your book, what do you want themto think and what do you want
for them to have done afterreading your book?

Speaker 1 (23:08):
You know, the book is kind of put together like a
workbook.
There's probably some 50 stories, 60 stories of my life, and
they illustrate 14 differentprinciples, traits or beliefs
and as they go through thosethey learn how to connect

(23:31):
stories with a trait or a belief.
But after every story I askthem to write down what does
this bring to mind, what areyour thoughts, what are your
stories?
After every trait or belief, Ihave a list of things that they
could do, if they wanted to, tostudy further and to write that
down, and so I hope, as they gothrough this, they end up with a

(23:54):
resource book to tell storiesfor a long, long time.
In fact, I hope they end upwith their basic resources to
write their own book, if theywant to, that they could leave
with their great-grandchildrento write their own book if they
want to, that they could leavewith their great-grandchildren.
So I hope when they see that upon your bookshelf there,
they'll see that spine and thinkyou know what I was going to do

(24:16):
, that I need to get back to it.
I need to tell some stories.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
I need to jot down my history, steve.
I think that's great and Ithink it's something again, it's
as simple as writing it downand it's as complex as well.

(24:42):
It's easier to have it in apicture in the next play and I
know what frame you're talkingabout, because my mom has the
same one and we'll upload photosto her because she lives so far
away that we can be read intothe future is so powerful as
well.
Picture makes you kind of makeit up, but having that story
written down can be really cool.
Steve, I want folks to stay intouch with you and learn more
about your books.
Where can they go to find thatinformation?

Speaker 1 (25:04):
We have a new website and it's steve-manncom, and on
that website we've put a pictureof the book.
We put how you can find outabout it, where it is, further
developments that have happened,how to reach me, and so you

(25:24):
will be able to find all of thaton the website.
You will also be able to findit on Instagram or any of the
basic social media places,because we have information on
those also.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Great, steve, I've enjoyed our conversation today.
I'm going to give you the lastword here with one final
question, but I want to let youknow you've inspired me and now
I got to go and start writingthose down.
So when I get a copy or book inmy hands, uh, it's going to be
something that's important forme to be able to pass those
stories down generation togeneration.
How important that it is.

(25:56):
Thank you for adding value tothe listeners of the uncommon
leader podcast, your.
Your last question from me isum, I'm going to give you a
billboard.
You can put it wherever youwant to.
That's not the question interms of where you're going to
put it, but I'm going to let youput whatever message you want
to on that billboard.
What's the message that you puton that billboard and why do
you put that message on there?

Speaker 1 (26:18):
You know, I often do talks with young men, young
women, leadership camps, thingslike that, and there's two
things I really try to stress.
One is to dream dreams and atfirst they don't know what
you're talking about and so theyusually tell me the things they

(26:38):
think I want them to say.
I push it and push it and sayno, what are you really
imagining up there, and keep ahold of that.
Don't let anybody drive thatout of you.
You know I have a pacemakerright here.
Somebody dreamed that up.
If they hadn't dreamed it up Iwouldn't be here, and all of the

(27:00):
developments in our societyhave come because somebody had
dreams.
So the first thing I say isdream dreams and pay attention
to them and follow them.
The second thing I say is dosomething.
Do something to get you alittle closer.
Just take a little action, Justmake one little step toward
making that happen.

(27:20):
And if you dream the dreams andtake action, you're going to
have a wonderful time and make adifference dreams and take
action, you're going to have awonderful time and make a
difference.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Great advice, steve.
Great words of wisdom.
I wish you the best in the book.
I wish you the best in thefuture as well, with leaving a
legacy with your family, I'msure that your storytelling
skills are going to be ones thatgo down for generations to come
.
Thank you so much for addingvalue to the Uncommon Leader
podcast today.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Thanks for having me.
Great to be here.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
And that wraps up another episode of the Uncommon
Leader Podcast.
Thanks for tuning in today.
If you found value in thisepisode, I encourage you to
share it with your friends,colleagues or anyone else who
could benefit from the insightsand inspiration we've shared.
Also, if you have a moment, I'dgreatly appreciate if you could
leave a rating and review onyour favorite podcast platform.
Your feedback not only helps usto improve, but it also helps

(28:14):
others discover the podcast andjoin our growing community of
uncommon leaders.
Until next time, go and growchampions.

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