December 18, 2025 • 39 mins
Grief has a way of making every word feel heavier. That’s why our conversation with international intuitive medium and mentor Deb DeSell focuses on language, consent, and care—so messages from spirit soothe rather than sting. Deb brings a rare blend of evidential skill and therapeutic crisis intervention training, showing how trauma-informed and grief-informed practices can transform a reading from “interesting” to deeply healing.
We dive into the simple shifts that matter most: why “died by suicide” is kinder and more accurate than “committed,” how to convey responsibility in a passing without blame, and what to do when a spirit steps forward that the sitter isn’t ready to hear from. Deb shares clear scripts for opening a session with consent and control, gives alternatives to harmful phrases like “you’re so strong” and “you chose this,” and demonstrates value-neutral framing for sensitive evidence. You’ll hear practical approaches you can use immediately—whether you’re reading professionally, supporting a grieving friend, or navigating your own loss.
We also talk timing after death, managing expectations that can constrict a session, and the power of semantics when words like “mischievous” mean different things to different people. Deb points to essential resources, including the Dougy Center, and invites newer practitioners to build a referral list so clients leave with support beyond the sitting. Along the way, we celebrate Deb’s projects—the Intuitive Entrepreneur book, her upcoming Intuition 101 class, and her new show The Intuitive Edge, where soul meets strategy.
If you care about ethical, heart-led mediumship and real-world support for the bereaved, this one will stay with you. Listen, share with someone who needs better language around loss, and tell us: which phrase will you change first? Subscribe, leave a review, and tag us with your takeaways so more people can find this conversation.
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To connect with Deb Decelle:
Deb is an international intuitive medium and mentor known for her trauma-informed, heart centered approach. Deb helps people connect with spirit, trust their intuition, and step into soul- driven success. She leads classes and retreats across the globe and is the host of her upcoming show, The Intuitive Edge, Where Soul Meets Strategy.
Connect with her:
- @DebDecelleMedium on Instagram
- @DebDecelleMedium on Facebook
- Sacred Senses Intuition 101 Starts Jan 6th, 2025
- FREE 2026 Activation Portal (Closes Dec 15th): https://mediumnicole.com/new-year-activation
- Revive Your Sacral w/ Adriana (Starts Jan 6th!): https://mediumnicole.com/divineattunement
- Intuition Dev @ $12.34/mo (50% off until 1/1!): https://mediumnicole.com/intuition-development
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Join the Unity Code collective to participate in experiments: https://mediumnicole.com/podcast
Nicole Pope is an internationally-trained Evidential Medium and Soul Integration Guide dedicated to helping others reconnect with their higher self, awaken their gifts, and remember who they truly are.
To connect with Nicole, book a reading, or access her social media accounts: http://mediumnicole.com/links
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
Hello, everyone.
Welcome back to the Unity Code.
I am joined here today by thelovely and amazing Deb DeSell.
Welcome, Deb.
Thank you.
I'm so happy to be here.
Oh, I'm so excited that you'rehere.
So, Deb is an internationalintuitive medium and mentor
known for her trauma-informed,heart-centered approach.
(02:45):
She helps people connect withspirit, trust their intuition,
and step into a soul-driven,successful life.
And she leads classes andretreats all around the world
and is the host of our upcomingshow, The Intuitive Edge, where
Soul Meets Strategy.
Is that like an amazing bio orwhat?
Holy moly, Deb, what aren't youdoing these days?
(03:06):
Thank you so much, Nicole.
Thank you.
Oh my goodness.
So I've invited Deb on here totalk about grief and
trauma-informed mediumship,which I think expands beyond
mediumship.
But before we go there, I'd loveto maybe chat a little bit about
how we met, what projects we'vebeen working on.
We actually met in the 3D inMexico recently.
(03:28):
That was an amazing, that was anamazing time.
But let's rewind back because Imet you through Soul Journey
Sundays, and I was actually apart of your amazing book.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
And what a great part of the book you are.
So the the um it's such apassion project for me, that
piece of work that we did.
You know what I mean?
Um, and it's something that Ihold near and dear to my heart.
Um, and so I loved when, youknow, talk about asking and
(04:00):
saying yes and showing up, youknow, you really just showed up
in just this magnificent formand fashion.
Um, and your chapter reallyspeaks to so many people.
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
Oh, thank you so much, Jeb.
It's um so for those of you thataren't are unaware, this is
called the IntuitiveEntrepreneur.
I have it on the video here.
Um, and it's a compilation ofhow many different 22.
There's 22 people.
Of course, there's 22.
It's an angel number, right?
Master number.
Um 22.
Nature of it.
Yes.
Um, so it is available onAmazon.
(04:33):
I'll add it in the show notes,but um, but Deb called me up on
the way to my son's soccerappointment one day, and we just
got chatting about thisincredible book and this
incredible opportunity.
And I just want to number one,thank you so much for letting me
be a part of it.
It was so rad.
It was so rad.
Did you know?
So I'm chapter 17 in the book.
(04:53):
Did you know that I saw thenumber 17 repeatedly for months
before you told me what chapternumber I was?
SPEAKER_01 (05:01):
Really?
That is so interesting.
Oh my gosh, I love it.
I love when Spirit has a plan.
SPEAKER_00 (05:07):
So true.
And you know it's a sign becauseas soon as you see it and you're
like, oh, I'm 17, it goes away.
And I was like, oh, they werejust they knew all along.
Um so that's an amazing book.
If you are an entrepreneur, ithas stories of all these amazing
intuitive entrepreneurs as wellas tips in every single um
chapter.
And then we got the chance.
(05:28):
Can I fangirl a little bit tomeet the amazing Davide of the
Star Mantaro through this whodoes the cover work?
And I like I can I just tell youthat was the most blowing, blown
away experience of my mindhaving him involved in the fact
that if you go through thischap, this book, every single, I
don't know what they call it,every single one of these
(05:50):
mandalas, he created custom forevery single chapter.
SPEAKER_01 (05:54):
Yeah, that was amazing.
David did an amazing job.
Um, and his name is Um DavideD'Angelo.
Um, and he is just absolutelyamazing.
He worked with David Bowie formany years.
Um, and he is the um artist forthe book.
And he actually read each of ourchapters and then did a
(06:16):
download, an energetic download,to create a unique piece of art
for each and every chapter.
And boy, I just couldn't behappier.
Um, and he actually is just hasjust remastered the Starman
Tarot, which is also availableon Amazon.
Um, he went a little bit deeperwith the work um and added some
things in and changed somethings around.
(06:38):
And um, yeah, so you can grabthat on Amazon as well.
unknown (06:41):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (06:42):
I no no accident in that timing, by the way.
Um, and I think this is themagic of working with you, Deb,
because everything just fallsinto place when when I've seen
things kind of come around youand go around you, which is why
I'm like so excited to numberone be in your like circle, um,
but also just just be hangingout with you here today.
Um, so let's scoot on to so wehad been chatting for a year
(07:06):
because I believe we startedchatting about this time last
year about the book.
Um and then we had been chattingon and off for the past year,
and then we actually finally meteach other in person in Mexico,
which is really funny becauseDeb lives like an hour and a
half west of me.
I could probably drive to herright now and go see her.
But we met each other in Mexico,and it was so great to meet you
in the 3D.
SPEAKER_01 (07:27):
It was wonderful.
It was such a great time.
It was so amazing.
Julie does such incredibleretreats and you know, just the
teaching experience and watchingyou teach and seeing what you
bring to the table really justlit me up and made me so happy.
So it was beautiful to watch youteach um and to experience your
energy in the 3D.
It was really great.
SPEAKER_00 (07:48):
Oh, thanks.
And the feelings mutual, whichis why I want Deb on here to
talking about her workshop thatshe had in Mexico about the um
grief and trauma-informedmediumship.
So this is such a unique area,Deb.
So do you mind me asking you howdid you number one get involved
in the mediumship work overall?
And then, like, how did you getinto this really interesting
(08:10):
niche of this grief andtrauma-informed perspective?
SPEAKER_01 (08:13):
Well, um, I've been able to sense energy from a very
young age.
I didn't know what that was.
I didn't know what was mine,what was from spirit, and what
was just other people's stuff.
Um, fast forward to my mid-30s,I started to study healing
modalities.
And as I did, I realized that Iwas getting messages and the
messages were coming faster andfaster.
And I knew I needed to dosomething with it to help other
(08:35):
people heal.
Um, in 2017, I started doingthis work professionally.
Um, and it was two years ago inAugust that I left my world of
education to do this full-time.
And so my narrative, part of mylife story is that I spent um 15
years working in education andwith at-risk youth.
(08:56):
So part of my training whileworking in education was um
something called therapeuticcrisis intervention.
And so you learn to betrauma-informed, you learn to
know what to say and what not tosay, you learn how to manage big
emotions of other people, youlearn how to walk through things
(09:20):
in a way that is respectful andloving.
Um, and you're doing no harm.
And that's something that'sreally important to me because
I've had people come to me thathave had really negative
experiences with mediums whowere not trauma-informed.
And so that can be reallychallenging because people are
saying hurtful things becausespirit said, um, you know,
(09:44):
thinking that they have to justsay everything that comes to
mind instead of looking at itfrom a trauma-informed
perspective.
Um, so from that trauma-informedpiece, I got that from my 15
years in education.
And the grief-informed has beenmore recently um the office
space that I have in upstate NewYork, I actually share it with
therapists, um, a few of whomare um grief-informed and
(10:08):
grief-trained, because over 60%of therapists are not trained in
grief in their master'sprograms.
They're not trained.
That's insane.
That's absolutely they'retrained in trauma, but they're
not trained in grief, what to dowhen someone passes away, how to
handle that, how to navigatethat with people.
Um, and so, you know, it's kindof really near and dear to my
(10:29):
heart to deliver messages in away that is kind and that is
trauma-informed andgrief-informed.
SPEAKER_00 (10:41):
That is amazing.
I can't believe that so fewpractitioners, therapists are
trained in grief.
Do you mind explaining what thedifference is between the grief
and the trauma then, why theywouldn't be informed, uh
educated in one versus theother?
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
Well, trauma can deal with a whole umbrella of
things.
Grief is just when you thinkabout from a grief perspective,
you're thinking about whathappens when someone dies.
Yeah.
So they're not necessarilytrained in how to work with
someone when someone dies.
You know, they have this wholehost of experience of other
things, but not specificallygrief as it relates to someone
(11:18):
dying.
SPEAKER_00 (11:20):
That's so interesting.
And I it there is such a needfor this within the metaphysical
space because to your point,people will be like, spirit said
this.
And I have actually worked withanother teacher, I will not name
names, that was like that, andit was horrible.
Like, I've actually she read forme, and the spirit was my my
(11:42):
husband's grandfather, actuallytold me, Don't ever let her read
for me again because she wasthat bad.
Um, so so I think this is suchan important topic that everyone
should be aware of, especiallyme.
I know this is definitely myblind spot, and I'm so thankful
that you came to Mexico topresent this.
Um, and we can educate more onthis platform because words
(12:04):
matter, and and we're dealingwith people that are already
deep deep in grief or trauma.
Um, and we don't want to make itworse, right?
Right.
Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (12:15):
When I think oh go ahead.
When I think of kind of thebiggest, what one of the biggest
changes that people can make isthe language that they use.
You know, that's somethingthat's really important.
And, you know, committed suicideis no longer accepted language,
you know, it's not acceptable.
When we think of someonecommitting something, we think
of them committing a crime, wethink of them being committed to
(12:38):
a hospital, you know, so it'sthat they've done something
wrong.
And really, when people die bysuicide, it's about wanting to
leave this physical worldbehind.
So it's not that they've doneanything wrong.
And so the term that we're usingnow, the language we use now, is
died by suicide.
And that way it takes away thatsting that you know they've
(13:00):
somehow done something wrong.
So I think it's important, evenfor simple semantics, to really
be aware of the language thatwe're using and the tone that we
carry.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
Oh, that's so interesting.
And I think it's such a greatpoint.
And I've definitely said thewrong thing there in my
readings.
I will fully admit that.
Um, what do you say when, andand maybe this is uh because
it's all based on your bias andyour own perception.
What do you say when when thespirit is taking responsibility
(13:32):
for the circumstances aroundtheir passing?
How do you how do you relaythat, whether it's suicide or
something else?
SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
Yeah, you can say, you know, they want to take some
level of responsibility in theirpassing, you know, you can say
that.
Um, grief-informed people aren'tin love with that, but um, it's
really the way that we were ableto get it done.
You know, them saying, I want totake, they want to take some
responsibility in their passing.
SPEAKER_00 (13:56):
I love that.
I love that.
Do you have some more examplesor what are your like biggest
pet peeves, Sarah?
Because because let's be honest,like you are this tough New York
woman, right?
That's like that's like on onthis stand for making sure that
we have grief andtrauma-informed practitioners.
And I think it's so important.
It's so important.
(14:16):
So, what what caused you to godown this specific teaching
rabbit hole?
Because I know that you'realready informed because of your
background, but why?
So, what was the link thatactually had you bring it here?
Or was that something naturalthat just happened?
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
I think it was something natural that just
happened, but uh, you know, someof the other examples that I get
are, oh, don't forget you chosethis.
You know, mediums tellingpeople, oh, well, you chose this
lifetime, you chose everythingthat's happening to you.
And while some people believethat that may be true, yeah,
people don't need to hear that.
(14:50):
You don't need to hear, I choseto be abused, I chose to grow up
in an abusive household, I choseto be assaulted.
You know, that's nottrauma-informed language, and
it's not okay.
Oof, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (15:03):
It's so true.
It's so true.
And I think this is where Ithink this is where that free,
oh, I could go way down therabbit hole with this one, Deb.
Like, because I think there'sthis rabbit hole of there is
free will, but there's alsothese milestones.
But I agree with you, especiallyin the delivery of some of these
items to the clients.
(15:24):
And and I think some clients areready to hear, let's talk about
what your soul did choose.
Let's talk about the milestonesor the lessons your soul wanted
to learn in those people thatmaybe disagree with that belief
system or disagree with the umor can't handle that approach,
or and I don't, and I don't meanthat negative.
I know you don't, you know that,but it's so it's so interesting.
(15:47):
It's so interesting.
Do you find um how do you let mesee if I can phrase this
differently?
In my head, I was just gonna askthe question.
I'm gonna see if I can make thisquestion make sense.
But how do you balance when youfind when you feel that
potentially from spirit versuswhat comes out of your mouth?
SPEAKER_01 (16:08):
Well, I think it's really about being cautious and
careful, um, and really thinkingabout, you know, how would I
feel if someone came across andsaid, Oh yeah, you chose to grow
up in an abusive household.
Okay.
It's as simple as thinking, howwould I feel?
How would I feel?
(16:29):
And so, you know, just becausespirit says doesn't mean that we
need to lay it all out therebecause we're souls having a
human experience.
Yes.
And so, you know, in the 3D, wereally need to be mindful of
language and how we approachthings and the things that we
say.
You know, I've had mothers cometo me whose sons were involved
(16:51):
in gangs and either they weren'taware of it or they were in
denial about it.
So, how do you handle that?
(19:06):
And so one of the ways, just asan example, is you know, I
sensed that your son had a groupof friends that were really
loyal to him.
I sense that it was one for alland all for one.
I sense that it was a deepbrotherhood that he really
trusted.
Okay.
And so you can see that's verydifferent than coming out and
saying, hey, your son was agangbanger.
(19:30):
Okay.
That's a huge, it's it's such ahuge difference.
And it's important because thepeople that seek out mediums are
people that are grieving.
They're people that are in aseason of grief.
And so we're really tasked withalmost being therapeutic in our
approach to really help themheal because that's really what
(19:51):
mediumship is about, is aboutdeep healing, it's not about
entertainment.
SPEAKER_00 (19:56):
Preach.
Completely agree, completelyagree.
And I think that is the reallyspecial part.
And I think that's why a lot ofmedia mediums, at least in my
experience, tend to move on fromthis space, is because it's
heavy.
I mean, clients are coming toyou grieving and sad and
processing.
And to your point, Deb, like weneed to be careful.
(20:17):
There's so much that goes intojust being able to receive and
relay the information fromspirit.
We have to make sure that we'rerelaying it in a way that is
loving and supportive, which isalways the intention of this
incredible work to help people,you know, helping them transform
their transmute their griefenergy into hopefully something
that feels a little bit betteror lighter.
SPEAKER_01 (20:37):
Yeah, I was actually um, I was actually gifted.
Um, there was an incredible giftthat was available to me a few
years ago.
I wrote on a project called theGrief Experience Tools for
Acceptance, Resilience, andConnection.
Um, and that is also availableon Amazon, but I was the only
medium in the book.
Um, and it's 25 differentauthors, 25 different
(20:59):
perspectives of grief.
We have disenfranchised grief ofpet loss, we have um
anticipatory grief, we havegrief um for people that have
migrated to the US, we havegrief for you know fertility
issues, both uh for a gentlemanand for a woman as well.
There are so many differentperspectives of grief, and it's
(21:20):
important for us to be griefinformed if we're going to be
working with people that aregrieving.
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
That I'm gonna have to check out that book.
That book sounds amazing.
And I my goodness, this is thestuff they don't tell you when
you start this work, that thisis what you need to be careful
of and cautious of in umrelaying messages.
And I love that there's aresource out there that allows
you to see all the differentperspectives of Greece because I
think as you said in yourpresentation in Mexico, everyone
(21:49):
grieves differently, right?
SPEAKER_01 (21:50):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And you know, what is helpfulfor some might not be helpful
for others.
So it's important for us toreally have awareness about you
know how we're working withpeople, how we're approaching
people.
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
And can I tell you howbeneficial your class was?
And I keep telling Deb to domore of these classes.
So I'm gonna tell you again,Deb, you should you should do
like a workshop, like a one-daything.
I will absolutely promote theheck out of it.
Um, it was so helpful andinsightful listening to your
speech in Mexico and what we'retalking about today, because my
(22:27):
I've had two friends um sinceMexico where they've had close
family members pass.
And they're and you're likethere, it's one thing to be a
medium, right?
And and be able to at least knowwhat what a typical protocol is
and how to how to receive andrelay, but it's a whole
different person perspectivecoming in from a friend
(22:49):
perspective or coming in fromlike uh even an acquaintance and
knowing what to say or how tosay it.
And I have to tell you, some ofyour talking points, some of the
things we talked about as thegroup has been so helpful for me
to digest it because it's souncomfortable.
Is it weird for me to say that?
It's so uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_01 (23:06):
It's it is uncomfortable.
We're taught, you know, thatgrief we're not educated about
grief in our society, you know,it's kind of like, oh, just keep
swimming, just keep swimming,swim, swim, swim.
I call it dorying it, um,because you're just continuing
to swim through life.
And, you know, we're notinformed, we're not taught,
(23:26):
we're not schooled about how tobe there for people.
What what else to say besidesI'm sorry for your loss, you
know?
Um you know, holding you in myheart, you know, here and even
the hear if you need anything,you know.
I feel like saying that can behelpful, but then back it up
with something, you know,instead of saying, Oh, call me
(23:48):
if you need anything, thatleaves it on the person that's
grieving.
You might say to them, you knowwhat, I know that your kids love
juice boxes in their lunch, soI'm gonna grab a couple packages
and drop them off for you.
So it's moving into action umwhen it's a personal connection
that can be so helpful to peopleinstead of let me know if you
(24:09):
need anything, because then thatleaves the weight on them.
And when people are grieving,they're not reaching out to
other people.
So you have to be the one thatmoves things kind of into action
for them.
SPEAKER_00 (24:21):
That's so important.
That is so important.
So, what are some other ideas orthings that you wish medium?
Or people new about how tohandle or how to talk about
grief with either clients or orfriends?
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
Well, I think just being mindful of grief and that
everyone grieves differently,that's a huge thing because some
people um are tearful, otherpeople are not.
Some people are angry, otherpeople are not.
So it really is anindividualized type of emotion
grief is.
And, you know, grief can happenfor so many reasons.
(24:56):
It's not just death.
And I talk about that in thegrief experience.
It's not just death and dying.
You know, we can grieve a wholelot of different things in our
life and in our world.
Um, so it's really just aboutbeing mindful of the language
that we're using and the waythat we approach people, you
know?
SPEAKER_00 (25:15):
It is.
What are the terms?
I know we've talked about a fewalready, like died by or um
committed suicide.
Like, what are the terms thatget under your skin when you
hear people say them and you'relike, oh no, you're not supposed
to say that.
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
Um, well, I think that really the big one is, you
know, you chose this.
That's the other, that's anotherbig one.
Or, you know, um things likethat.
And, you know, really just kindof um allowing people to say
(25:51):
things that are heartfeltinstead of that are about ego.
Because whenever it's about egoor what you want to get across,
that's where we go wrong.
If it's heartfelt, you reallycan't go wrong.
Just think about different waysthat you can say things,
different things that you mightsay to people so that they can
feel at peace, so that they canfeel at ease, you know.
(26:15):
Um, let me just try to try tothink for a minute.
SPEAKER_00 (26:18):
Okay, I want to ask, like the coming from ego.
Well, can you can you talk aboutthat a little bit?
That's so I haven't heard ofthat before.
SPEAKER_01 (26:25):
Well, yeah, so yeah.
Um the other thing is too, is Iguess people delivering messages
like right off the rip withoutgetting consent from people, um,
you know, like randomlyaccosting people with readings,
um, you know, when they may ormay not be ready to hear that.
Um, so I think that that issomething that's important.
(26:46):
It's the way that we approachthings also that's important.
SPEAKER_00 (26:49):
I think one that you mentioned in Mexico was, and I
it relates to people grievingdifferently, but like
highlighting how strong somebodyis.
SPEAKER_01 (26:58):
Oh, yeah, you're so strong.
That's the worst thing that youcan say because people feel
like, oh, I have to be strongthen.
And you know, they weren'treally given another choice.
Strong is sometimes the onlychoice that you have, and to be
reminded of that, that can bereally hard.
And so we want to talk about,you know, what's the language
(27:21):
that we could use instead ofyou're so strong or I'm so sorry
for your loss.
How about trying something likeI cannot even imagine how hard
this is for you?
Do you see how that resonatesdifferently?
Or I can't even imagine how youmust feel right now.
SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:38):
Because saying I understand or I know how you
feel, those are also no-nosbecause you don't, you're not
literally living that person'sexperience, you know, and so you
don't really understand.
You know, if you had a similartype of loss, of course you you
have some understanding, butcoming out and saying, Oh, I
(27:58):
understand what you're goingthrough is is definitely not
great grief-informed language.
SPEAKER_00 (28:05):
I love that.
A slight sidestep topic here.
Yeah.
Mainly because I'm interested tohear what your answer is.
How soon after somebody passes,do you recommend people to come
to see a medium?
Does it do you have a timeline?
Do you not?
Where what's your standard?
SPEAKER_01 (28:24):
I I don't really have a timeline.
I've heard other mediums say sixmonths at least.
But I've had people come to me.
I was I did an event and um Ihad someone come to me and they
hadn't and they were still likethey hadn't even had the funeral
yet.
So sometimes information comesin very quickly.
(28:47):
Um, you know, if you're dealingwith someone that's really heavy
in their grief, I would say waitsix months just to give it some
time, the healing and thingslike that.
You know, if somebody comes tome and it's sooner than that,
certainly I don't turn themaway.
Um, but if it doesn't feel likethe reading is going well, I'll
postpone or reschedule um justto give it some more time.
SPEAKER_00 (29:08):
I completely agree because I've had spirits come
through, and I think I when Iexplain it to my clients, I make
the distinction that spirit isthere.
So they're always there on theother side.
The moment that they move intothe spirit world, they're fine,
they don't get stuck, right?
They are accessible from amediumship perspective, but it
really depends on the grievinglevel of the sitter, of the
(29:31):
person coming, because if goingto this mediumship reading is
gonna be number one, full ofexpectations of what uh from the
sitter of what they want tohear, what they want to say, or
who they want to hear from,right?
But also number two, if they'reso deep in grief, they're gonna
change the vibration of thereading, and it's not gonna be
beneficial to anybody.
(29:52):
And so, if the if in myexperience, and I love this
conversation, if we can't makethis a positive, loving
experience for the sitter,spirit will show up and be like,
not today.
SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
Right.
Absolutely, absolutely.
And, you know, the otherinteresting thing too is that,
you know, what do you do ifsomeone comes through that your
sitter doesn't want to hearfrom?
SPEAKER_00 (30:15):
That's happened, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:16):
Yeah.
And so, you know, at thebeginning of the reading, I feel
like it's important to say, youknow, you're in charge.
If someone comes through thatyou don't want to hear from or
anything else like that, justraise your hand like this and
we'll move in a differentdirection.
SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
I love how simple you make it, Deb.
Like I you really make it easyand accessible and making sure
that your client feels at easefor these sessions.
Yeah, it's so important.
And and it has to, and I like Idon't think about this mainly
because like by the time it thisis this is something I'll need
to work on, but by the time asitter is in front of me,
(30:53):
generally spirits already beentalking to me.
And so I'm like, let's go.
Um, but I love it because if youset your client up for success,
the whole session is going to bea success, right?
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
Absolutely, absolutely, and it gives them an
out to be honest, you know.
Imagine someone's father comingthrough who was abusive to them.
That's not who they want to hearfrom, you know, and spirit
always gives me that signal whenthat's the case because they'll
come through, but their headwill be hung.
So I know that there's regret inthe way they communicated here
in the physical world, and so Imay communicate that regret, um,
(31:27):
but then leave it alone.
Just say I know they they wouldhave had regret about
communication style when theywere here in the physical world,
and they want me to leave thatwith you.
SPEAKER_00 (31:38):
I love that.
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (31:39):
And then move on, moving on.
SPEAKER_00 (31:41):
Oh, that's so great.
That's so great.
Um, is there are there any otherexamples of not necessarily
grief-informed words, but uhlike where what are some
examples?
I know you've already given themalong the way, but what do you
what is are there any other tipsor tricks that mediums could
walk away with that they coulddo to help put the sitter at
(32:04):
ease or like or words or phrasesthat are very beneficial for for
them to relay some toughinformation for the clients?
SPEAKER_01 (32:13):
Well, first of all, I think that having resources
for our clients is so incrediblyimportant.
So finding a local griefcounselor that you can refer
people to, okay.
Finding it's all about theresources and it's as simple as
that thing right in thebeginning of the reading saying,
you know, I'm going to continueor I'm gonna move forward with
(32:35):
the reading.
If there's things that come upthat you're not comfortable with
or that you need me to move onfrom quickly, just gently raise
your hand and I'll know thatthat's my cue.
Okay.
It's giving them the power, it'ssetting up the reading so that
they're in control.
Really, that's where we can bestrong and stand strong in a
(32:56):
grief-informed and atrauma-informed way, is you're
giving them an out, you'regiving them power over the
reading.
And that's something that is themost important thing, in my
opinion.
SPEAKER_00 (33:07):
Right, because it's a communication, right?
It needs to go both ways.
And if your sitter's notcomfortable, or if you're right,
right, if they don't they needthe out so that they don't walk
away feeling like, oh my gosh, Iwon't use an example, Deb, but
like Nicole was the worst mediumever.
Like, oh my gosh, I walked awayfeeling worse than I did before
because this person came throughbecause of the words and
(33:29):
language that she used, becausewords are so powerful in this
case.
Yep, they are.
And and I mean, it's even cometo the pat fact the the example
I always like to give ismischievous.
I don't know why that word inparticular just constantly
bombards me, but when I evenlike not even grief aside, grief
(33:52):
aside, when I use the wordmischievous, everybody has a
deaf different definition forthat word.
Everybody does.
And so, like when he's saying,like, oh, your dad was or your
uncle, it's usually an uncle,your uncle is really
mischievous, and they'llultimately say no.
And I'm like, no, no, no, he'slike fun and playful in a
positive way.
He's not, it's not negative.
It's he's he likes to playpractical jokes on people and
(34:13):
then they'll say yes.
So if you're a medium and you'relike, oh yeah, that's
interesting because I say wordsand my client can't un can't
take the word, but they can takethe description of it.
That's a really I'm I'm surethat spirit at some level is
saying, like, pay attention toyour words because your words
matter in these readings.
They really do, they really do.
(34:34):
And they can change the wholedynamic of a good session to a
great session.
SPEAKER_01 (34:39):
Right.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (34:42):
Absolutely.
Um, Deb, is there anything thatwe left out?
I'm looking at my list ofquestions.
I feel like I've coveredeverything I wanted to make sure
we were covering, but is thereanything else from a grief or
trauma perspective that wedidn't talk about that you think
is really important tohighlight?
SPEAKER_01 (34:59):
Um, let me just give some thought to that.
unknown (35:02):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (35:05):
I think it's really about just using your heart.
You know, you hear the phraseuse your head.
Well, use your heart on thisone, you know, really have
heart-led communication,heart-led connection.
Um, and just think about kind ofthe way that you would feel.
Think about the words thatyou're using um so that you can
leave the client feeling um warmand fuzzy instead of cold and
(35:28):
prickly.
SPEAKER_00 (35:31):
Mm-hmm.
That makes a lot of sense.
And then maybe from a practicalor application perspective, how
do you recommend mediums dothat?
And I think there is a bigdifference between professional
mediums or mediums that havedone this for a while that can
stay in the power regardless ofhow many questions, how many
thought patterns they interruptversus those are that are newer?
(35:52):
So, I guess would you have anyadvice for newer people to how
do you do this and stay in thepower and balance what you're
saying and right?
Because there's so there's somany balls in the air when
you're juggling this stuff.
So, do you have any advice forthe newbies doing this work on
how they can approach this, evenat like a micro level, that
helps them really educating,yeah, educating yourself is
(36:15):
something that's reallyimportant.
SPEAKER_01 (36:17):
Yeah, educating yourself is something that's
really important, and you know,making sure that um you have
resources to give clients, butalso resources for yourself so
that you can have the properinformation.
And there's a thing out therecalled the Dougie Center, um,
(36:38):
and they do grief-informed umthings.
It's for grieving children, butthere are a lot of great
grieving resources, and you canfind them at www.dougie do-u-g-y
dot org.
Um, and it's really there's awhole wealth of resources there
that you can look at that youcan find that you can sift
(37:01):
through.
Um, and like I said, it's forgrieving children, but grief,
there's it's one of the mostwonderful places I know that has
a lot of grief resources thatcan help other people get up to
speed quickly.
SPEAKER_00 (37:15):
That's really helpful because I don't know
when they said it's not okay totalk, say committed suicide
anymore.
I don't know at what point thathappened.
I missed that boat big time.
So I will be checking out theDucky Center.
Excellent, excellent.
Absolutely.
Oh my goodness.
So, Deb, how do people get ahold of you?
What are you working on lately?
SPEAKER_01 (37:35):
Well, they can get a hold of me on my website, it's
debdicell.com.
Also, my socials are Facebookand Instagram, and it's
DebDisell Medium, all lowercase,all one word.
Um, I am currently working on aclass coming up in January.
It's going to be a virtualintuition 101.
It's part of the Sacred Sensesseries that I'm doing.
(37:55):
And it's really about Intuition101.
It's about getting yourfoundation, it's about getting
the basics, learning what theClaire's are, um, learning, you
know, where, you know, whichClaire applies to you and things
like that.
So I'm really excited.
Um, it's for people that arejust getting started, and that's
going to be taking place at thebeginning of January.
Um, if you go to my Facebookpage, the event is set up right
(38:17):
there.
You can get your tickets.
And I'm really looking forwardto 2026.
SPEAKER_00 (38:22):
Oh, that's amazing.
And then you have your showcoming up, right?
You the intuitive edge.
SPEAKER_01 (38:27):
I do.
I do, I do.
The intuitive edge, we're soulmeet strategy.
So I'm going to be talking to uhentrepreneurs and how they use
their intuition in theirbusiness.
Um, and it's going to be airingon the women's channel, um,
which I'm super, super excitedabout with Deb Drummond Mission
Accepted Media and Easy Way TV.
Um, so that should be coming upin 2026 as well.
SPEAKER_00 (38:49):
You gotta give everyone, you gotta give Deb a
follow, everybody, because Debis going places.
She is obviously, as you cantell, such an amazing
outstanding medium that reallyworks hard for the integrity and
quality of the readings with herclients.
So um give Deb a follow.
I'll add all of that in the shownotes.
Check out her classes,definitely go check out her show
once it's released.
(39:09):
Uh, you can access that throughlike Amazon and Apple and Roku
and everything too, right?
SPEAKER_01 (39:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
You can pick up Easy Way TV onApple, Roku, Amazon.
Um, and it's all right underthere.
And you just pop onto Easy WayTV and you'll be able to see it.
SPEAKER_00 (39:25):
Oh my gosh, I can't, I can't wait.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited for that.
Well, Deb, thank you so much foryour time, sharing your
knowledge and expertise.
And um, I really still thinkthis would be a fabulous class.
So I'm just gonna put that outthere for you.
But everyone, give her a follow.
Um, she's amazing.
And Deb, thank you so much forbeing here today.
I really appreciate you.
SPEAKER_01 (39:43):
Thank you for having me, Nicole.
I appreciate you as well.
SPEAKER_00 (39:47):
All right, love and love you.
Spirit's like, tell her you loveher.
Love you too.
SPEAKER_01 (39:51):
Love you too, soul sister.
SPEAKER_00 (39:54):
All right, have a good one.
Hello, everyone.
Welcome back to the Unity Code.
I am joined here today by thelovely and amazing Deb DeSell.
Welcome, Deb.
Thank you.
I'm so happy to be here.
Oh, I'm so excited that you'rehere.
So, Deb is an internationalintuitive medium and mentor
known for her trauma-informed,heart-centered approach.
(02:45):
She helps people connect withspirit, trust their intuition,
and step into a soul-driven,successful life.
And she leads classes andretreats all around the world
and is the host of our upcomingshow, The Intuitive Edge, where
Soul Meets Strategy.
Is that like an amazing bio orwhat?
Holy moly, Deb, what aren't youdoing these days?
(03:06):
Thank you so much, Nicole.
Thank you.
Oh my goodness.
So I've invited Deb on here totalk about grief and
trauma-informed mediumship,which I think expands beyond
mediumship.
But before we go there, I'd loveto maybe chat a little bit about
how we met, what projects we'vebeen working on.
We actually met in the 3D inMexico recently.
(03:28):
That was an amazing, that was anamazing time.
But let's rewind back because Imet you through Soul Journey
Sundays, and I was actually apart of your amazing book.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
And what a great part of the book you are.
So the the um it's such apassion project for me, that
piece of work that we did.
You know what I mean?
Um, and it's something that Ihold near and dear to my heart.
Um, and so I loved when, youknow, talk about asking and
(04:00):
saying yes and showing up, youknow, you really just showed up
in just this magnificent formand fashion.
Um, and your chapter reallyspeaks to so many people.
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
Oh, thank you so much, Jeb.
It's um so for those of you thataren't are unaware, this is
called the IntuitiveEntrepreneur.
I have it on the video here.
Um, and it's a compilation ofhow many different 22.
There's 22 people.
Of course, there's 22.
It's an angel number, right?
Master number.
Um 22.
Nature of it.
Yes.
Um, so it is available onAmazon.
(04:33):
I'll add it in the show notes,but um, but Deb called me up on
the way to my son's soccerappointment one day, and we just
got chatting about thisincredible book and this
incredible opportunity.
And I just want to number one,thank you so much for letting me
be a part of it.
It was so rad.
It was so rad.
Did you know?
So I'm chapter 17 in the book.
(04:53):
Did you know that I saw thenumber 17 repeatedly for months
before you told me what chapternumber I was?
SPEAKER_01 (05:01):
Really?
That is so interesting.
Oh my gosh, I love it.
I love when Spirit has a plan.
SPEAKER_00 (05:07):
So true.
And you know it's a sign becauseas soon as you see it and you're
like, oh, I'm 17, it goes away.
And I was like, oh, they werejust they knew all along.
Um so that's an amazing book.
If you are an entrepreneur, ithas stories of all these amazing
intuitive entrepreneurs as wellas tips in every single um
chapter.
And then we got the chance.
(05:28):
Can I fangirl a little bit tomeet the amazing Davide of the
Star Mantaro through this whodoes the cover work?
And I like I can I just tell youthat was the most blowing, blown
away experience of my mindhaving him involved in the fact
that if you go through thischap, this book, every single, I
don't know what they call it,every single one of these
(05:50):
mandalas, he created custom forevery single chapter.
SPEAKER_01 (05:54):
Yeah, that was amazing.
David did an amazing job.
Um, and his name is Um DavideD'Angelo.
Um, and he is just absolutelyamazing.
He worked with David Bowie formany years.
Um, and he is the um artist forthe book.
And he actually read each of ourchapters and then did a
(06:16):
download, an energetic download,to create a unique piece of art
for each and every chapter.
And boy, I just couldn't behappier.
Um, and he actually is just hasjust remastered the Starman
Tarot, which is also availableon Amazon.
Um, he went a little bit deeperwith the work um and added some
things in and changed somethings around.
(06:38):
And um, yeah, so you can grabthat on Amazon as well.
unknown (06:41):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (06:42):
I no no accident in that timing, by the way.
Um, and I think this is themagic of working with you, Deb,
because everything just fallsinto place when when I've seen
things kind of come around youand go around you, which is why
I'm like so excited to numberone be in your like circle, um,
but also just just be hangingout with you here today.
Um, so let's scoot on to so wehad been chatting for a year
(07:06):
because I believe we startedchatting about this time last
year about the book.
Um and then we had been chattingon and off for the past year,
and then we actually finally meteach other in person in Mexico,
which is really funny becauseDeb lives like an hour and a
half west of me.
I could probably drive to herright now and go see her.
But we met each other in Mexico,and it was so great to meet you
in the 3D.
SPEAKER_01 (07:27):
It was wonderful.
It was such a great time.
It was so amazing.
Julie does such incredibleretreats and you know, just the
teaching experience and watchingyou teach and seeing what you
bring to the table really justlit me up and made me so happy.
So it was beautiful to watch youteach um and to experience your
energy in the 3D.
It was really great.
SPEAKER_00 (07:48):
Oh, thanks.
And the feelings mutual, whichis why I want Deb on here to
talking about her workshop thatshe had in Mexico about the um
grief and trauma-informedmediumship.
So this is such a unique area,Deb.
So do you mind me asking you howdid you number one get involved
in the mediumship work overall?
And then, like, how did you getinto this really interesting
(08:10):
niche of this grief andtrauma-informed perspective?
SPEAKER_01 (08:13):
Well, um, I've been able to sense energy from a very
young age.
I didn't know what that was.
I didn't know what was mine,what was from spirit, and what
was just other people's stuff.
Um, fast forward to my mid-30s,I started to study healing
modalities.
And as I did, I realized that Iwas getting messages and the
messages were coming faster andfaster.
And I knew I needed to dosomething with it to help other
(08:35):
people heal.
Um, in 2017, I started doingthis work professionally.
Um, and it was two years ago inAugust that I left my world of
education to do this full-time.
And so my narrative, part of mylife story is that I spent um 15
years working in education andwith at-risk youth.
(08:56):
So part of my training whileworking in education was um
something called therapeuticcrisis intervention.
And so you learn to betrauma-informed, you learn to
know what to say and what not tosay, you learn how to manage big
emotions of other people, youlearn how to walk through things
(09:20):
in a way that is respectful andloving.
Um, and you're doing no harm.
And that's something that'sreally important to me because
I've had people come to me thathave had really negative
experiences with mediums whowere not trauma-informed.
And so that can be reallychallenging because people are
saying hurtful things becausespirit said, um, you know,
(09:44):
thinking that they have to justsay everything that comes to
mind instead of looking at itfrom a trauma-informed
perspective.
Um, so from that trauma-informedpiece, I got that from my 15
years in education.
And the grief-informed has beenmore recently um the office
space that I have in upstate NewYork, I actually share it with
therapists, um, a few of whomare um grief-informed and
(10:08):
grief-trained, because over 60%of therapists are not trained in
grief in their master'sprograms.
They're not trained.
That's insane.
That's absolutely they'retrained in trauma, but they're
not trained in grief, what to dowhen someone passes away, how to
handle that, how to navigatethat with people.
Um, and so, you know, it's kindof really near and dear to my
(10:29):
heart to deliver messages in away that is kind and that is
trauma-informed andgrief-informed.
SPEAKER_00 (10:41):
That is amazing.
I can't believe that so fewpractitioners, therapists are
trained in grief.
Do you mind explaining what thedifference is between the grief
and the trauma then, why theywouldn't be informed, uh
educated in one versus theother?
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
Well, trauma can deal with a whole umbrella of
things.
Grief is just when you thinkabout from a grief perspective,
you're thinking about whathappens when someone dies.
Yeah.
So they're not necessarilytrained in how to work with
someone when someone dies.
You know, they have this wholehost of experience of other
things, but not specificallygrief as it relates to someone
(11:18):
dying.
SPEAKER_00 (11:20):
That's so interesting.
And I it there is such a needfor this within the metaphysical
space because to your point,people will be like, spirit said
this.
And I have actually worked withanother teacher, I will not name
names, that was like that, andit was horrible.
Like, I've actually she read forme, and the spirit was my my
(11:42):
husband's grandfather, actuallytold me, Don't ever let her read
for me again because she wasthat bad.
Um, so so I think this is suchan important topic that everyone
should be aware of, especiallyme.
I know this is definitely myblind spot, and I'm so thankful
that you came to Mexico topresent this.
Um, and we can educate more onthis platform because words
(12:04):
matter, and and we're dealingwith people that are already
deep deep in grief or trauma.
Um, and we don't want to make itworse, right?
Right.
Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (12:15):
When I think oh go ahead.
When I think of kind of thebiggest, what one of the biggest
changes that people can make isthe language that they use.
You know, that's somethingthat's really important.
And, you know, committed suicideis no longer accepted language,
you know, it's not acceptable.
When we think of someonecommitting something, we think
of them committing a crime, wethink of them being committed to
(12:38):
a hospital, you know, so it'sthat they've done something
wrong.
And really, when people die bysuicide, it's about wanting to
leave this physical worldbehind.
So it's not that they've doneanything wrong.
And so the term that we're usingnow, the language we use now, is
died by suicide.
And that way it takes away thatsting that you know they've
(13:00):
somehow done something wrong.
So I think it's important, evenfor simple semantics, to really
be aware of the language thatwe're using and the tone that we
carry.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
Oh, that's so interesting.
And I think it's such a greatpoint.
And I've definitely said thewrong thing there in my
readings.
I will fully admit that.
Um, what do you say when, andand maybe this is uh because
it's all based on your bias andyour own perception.
What do you say when when thespirit is taking responsibility
(13:32):
for the circumstances aroundtheir passing?
How do you how do you relaythat, whether it's suicide or
something else?
SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
Yeah, you can say, you know, they want to take some
level of responsibility in theirpassing, you know, you can say
that.
Um, grief-informed people aren'tin love with that, but um, it's
really the way that we were ableto get it done.
You know, them saying, I want totake, they want to take some
responsibility in their passing.
SPEAKER_00 (13:56):
I love that.
I love that.
Do you have some more examplesor what are your like biggest
pet peeves, Sarah?
Because because let's be honest,like you are this tough New York
woman, right?
That's like that's like on onthis stand for making sure that
we have grief andtrauma-informed practitioners.
And I think it's so important.
It's so important.
(14:16):
So, what what caused you to godown this specific teaching
rabbit hole?
Because I know that you'realready informed because of your
background, but why?
So, what was the link thatactually had you bring it here?
Or was that something naturalthat just happened?
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
I think it was something natural that just
happened, but uh, you know, someof the other examples that I get
are, oh, don't forget you chosethis.
You know, mediums tellingpeople, oh, well, you chose this
lifetime, you chose everythingthat's happening to you.
And while some people believethat that may be true, yeah,
people don't need to hear that.
(14:50):
You don't need to hear, I choseto be abused, I chose to grow up
in an abusive household, I choseto be assaulted.
You know, that's nottrauma-informed language, and
it's not okay.
Oof, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (15:03):
It's so true.
It's so true.
And I think this is where Ithink this is where that free,
oh, I could go way down therabbit hole with this one, Deb.
Like, because I think there'sthis rabbit hole of there is
free will, but there's alsothese milestones.
But I agree with you, especiallyin the delivery of some of these
items to the clients.
(15:24):
And and I think some clients areready to hear, let's talk about
what your soul did choose.
Let's talk about the milestonesor the lessons your soul wanted
to learn in those people thatmaybe disagree with that belief
system or disagree with the umor can't handle that approach,
or and I don't, and I don't meanthat negative.
I know you don't, you know that,but it's so it's so interesting.
(15:47):
It's so interesting.
Do you find um how do you let mesee if I can phrase this
differently?
In my head, I was just gonna askthe question.
I'm gonna see if I can make thisquestion make sense.
But how do you balance when youfind when you feel that
potentially from spirit versuswhat comes out of your mouth?
SPEAKER_01 (16:08):
Well, I think it's really about being cautious and
careful, um, and really thinkingabout, you know, how would I
feel if someone came across andsaid, Oh yeah, you chose to grow
up in an abusive household.
Okay.
It's as simple as thinking, howwould I feel?
How would I feel?
(16:29):
And so, you know, just becausespirit says doesn't mean that we
need to lay it all out therebecause we're souls having a
human experience.
Yes.
And so, you know, in the 3D, wereally need to be mindful of
language and how we approachthings and the things that we
say.
You know, I've had mothers cometo me whose sons were involved
(16:51):
in gangs and either they weren'taware of it or they were in
denial about it.
So, how do you handle that?
(19:06):
And so one of the ways, just asan example, is you know, I
sensed that your son had a groupof friends that were really
loyal to him.
I sense that it was one for alland all for one.
I sense that it was a deepbrotherhood that he really
trusted.
Okay.
And so you can see that's verydifferent than coming out and
saying, hey, your son was agangbanger.
(19:30):
Okay.
That's a huge, it's it's such ahuge difference.
And it's important because thepeople that seek out mediums are
people that are grieving.
They're people that are in aseason of grief.
And so we're really tasked withalmost being therapeutic in our
approach to really help themheal because that's really what
(19:51):
mediumship is about, is aboutdeep healing, it's not about
entertainment.
SPEAKER_00 (19:56):
Preach.
Completely agree, completelyagree.
And I think that is the reallyspecial part.
And I think that's why a lot ofmedia mediums, at least in my
experience, tend to move on fromthis space, is because it's
heavy.
I mean, clients are coming toyou grieving and sad and
processing.
And to your point, Deb, like weneed to be careful.
(20:17):
There's so much that goes intojust being able to receive and
relay the information fromspirit.
We have to make sure that we'rerelaying it in a way that is
loving and supportive, which isalways the intention of this
incredible work to help people,you know, helping them transform
their transmute their griefenergy into hopefully something
that feels a little bit betteror lighter.
SPEAKER_01 (20:37):
Yeah, I was actually um, I was actually gifted.
Um, there was an incredible giftthat was available to me a few
years ago.
I wrote on a project called theGrief Experience Tools for
Acceptance, Resilience, andConnection.
Um, and that is also availableon Amazon, but I was the only
medium in the book.
Um, and it's 25 differentauthors, 25 different
(20:59):
perspectives of grief.
We have disenfranchised grief ofpet loss, we have um
anticipatory grief, we havegrief um for people that have
migrated to the US, we havegrief for you know fertility
issues, both uh for a gentlemanand for a woman as well.
There are so many differentperspectives of grief, and it's
(21:20):
important for us to be griefinformed if we're going to be
working with people that aregrieving.
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
That I'm gonna have to check out that book.
That book sounds amazing.
And I my goodness, this is thestuff they don't tell you when
you start this work, that thisis what you need to be careful
of and cautious of in umrelaying messages.
And I love that there's aresource out there that allows
you to see all the differentperspectives of Greece because I
think as you said in yourpresentation in Mexico, everyone
(21:49):
grieves differently, right?
SPEAKER_01 (21:50):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And you know, what is helpfulfor some might not be helpful
for others.
So it's important for us toreally have awareness about you
know how we're working withpeople, how we're approaching
people.
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
And can I tell you howbeneficial your class was?
And I keep telling Deb to domore of these classes.
So I'm gonna tell you again,Deb, you should you should do
like a workshop, like a one-daything.
I will absolutely promote theheck out of it.
Um, it was so helpful andinsightful listening to your
speech in Mexico and what we'retalking about today, because my
(22:27):
I've had two friends um sinceMexico where they've had close
family members pass.
And they're and you're likethere, it's one thing to be a
medium, right?
And and be able to at least knowwhat what a typical protocol is
and how to how to receive andrelay, but it's a whole
different person perspectivecoming in from a friend
(22:49):
perspective or coming in fromlike uh even an acquaintance and
knowing what to say or how tosay it.
And I have to tell you, some ofyour talking points, some of the
things we talked about as thegroup has been so helpful for me
to digest it because it's souncomfortable.
Is it weird for me to say that?
It's so uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_01 (23:06):
It's it is uncomfortable.
We're taught, you know, thatgrief we're not educated about
grief in our society, you know,it's kind of like, oh, just keep
swimming, just keep swimming,swim, swim, swim.
I call it dorying it, um,because you're just continuing
to swim through life.
And, you know, we're notinformed, we're not taught,
(23:26):
we're not schooled about how tobe there for people.
What what else to say besidesI'm sorry for your loss, you
know?
Um you know, holding you in myheart, you know, here and even
the hear if you need anything,you know.
I feel like saying that can behelpful, but then back it up
with something, you know,instead of saying, Oh, call me
(23:48):
if you need anything, thatleaves it on the person that's
grieving.
You might say to them, you knowwhat, I know that your kids love
juice boxes in their lunch, soI'm gonna grab a couple packages
and drop them off for you.
So it's moving into action umwhen it's a personal connection
that can be so helpful to peopleinstead of let me know if you
(24:09):
need anything, because then thatleaves the weight on them.
And when people are grieving,they're not reaching out to
other people.
So you have to be the one thatmoves things kind of into action
for them.
SPEAKER_00 (24:21):
That's so important.
That is so important.
So, what are some other ideas orthings that you wish medium?
Or people new about how tohandle or how to talk about
grief with either clients or orfriends?
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
Well, I think just being mindful of grief and that
everyone grieves differently,that's a huge thing because some
people um are tearful, otherpeople are not.
Some people are angry, otherpeople are not.
So it really is anindividualized type of emotion
grief is.
And, you know, grief can happenfor so many reasons.
(24:56):
It's not just death.
And I talk about that in thegrief experience.
It's not just death and dying.
You know, we can grieve a wholelot of different things in our
life and in our world.
Um, so it's really just aboutbeing mindful of the language
that we're using and the waythat we approach people, you
know?
SPEAKER_00 (25:15):
It is.
What are the terms?
I know we've talked about a fewalready, like died by or um
committed suicide.
Like, what are the terms thatget under your skin when you
hear people say them and you'relike, oh no, you're not supposed
to say that.
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
Um, well, I think that really the big one is, you
know, you chose this.
That's the other, that's anotherbig one.
Or, you know, um things likethat.
And, you know, really just kindof um allowing people to say
(25:51):
things that are heartfeltinstead of that are about ego.
Because whenever it's about egoor what you want to get across,
that's where we go wrong.
If it's heartfelt, you reallycan't go wrong.
Just think about different waysthat you can say things,
different things that you mightsay to people so that they can
feel at peace, so that they canfeel at ease, you know.
(26:15):
Um, let me just try to try tothink for a minute.
SPEAKER_00 (26:18):
Okay, I want to ask, like the coming from ego.
Well, can you can you talk aboutthat a little bit?
That's so I haven't heard ofthat before.
SPEAKER_01 (26:25):
Well, yeah, so yeah.
Um the other thing is too, is Iguess people delivering messages
like right off the rip withoutgetting consent from people, um,
you know, like randomlyaccosting people with readings,
um, you know, when they may ormay not be ready to hear that.
Um, so I think that that issomething that's important.
(26:46):
It's the way that we approachthings also that's important.
SPEAKER_00 (26:49):
I think one that you mentioned in Mexico was, and I
it relates to people grievingdifferently, but like
highlighting how strong somebodyis.
SPEAKER_01 (26:58):
Oh, yeah, you're so strong.
That's the worst thing that youcan say because people feel
like, oh, I have to be strongthen.
And you know, they weren'treally given another choice.
Strong is sometimes the onlychoice that you have, and to be
reminded of that, that can bereally hard.
And so we want to talk about,you know, what's the language
(27:21):
that we could use instead ofyou're so strong or I'm so sorry
for your loss.
How about trying something likeI cannot even imagine how hard
this is for you?
Do you see how that resonatesdifferently?
Or I can't even imagine how youmust feel right now.
SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:38):
Because saying I understand or I know how you
feel, those are also no-nosbecause you don't, you're not
literally living that person'sexperience, you know, and so you
don't really understand.
You know, if you had a similartype of loss, of course you you
have some understanding, butcoming out and saying, Oh, I
(27:58):
understand what you're goingthrough is is definitely not
great grief-informed language.
SPEAKER_00 (28:05):
I love that.
A slight sidestep topic here.
Yeah.
Mainly because I'm interested tohear what your answer is.
How soon after somebody passes,do you recommend people to come
to see a medium?
Does it do you have a timeline?
Do you not?
Where what's your standard?
SPEAKER_01 (28:24):
I I don't really have a timeline.
I've heard other mediums say sixmonths at least.
But I've had people come to me.
I was I did an event and um Ihad someone come to me and they
hadn't and they were still likethey hadn't even had the funeral
yet.
So sometimes information comesin very quickly.
(28:47):
Um, you know, if you're dealingwith someone that's really heavy
in their grief, I would say waitsix months just to give it some
time, the healing and thingslike that.
You know, if somebody comes tome and it's sooner than that,
certainly I don't turn themaway.
Um, but if it doesn't feel likethe reading is going well, I'll
postpone or reschedule um justto give it some more time.
SPEAKER_00 (29:08):
I completely agree because I've had spirits come
through, and I think I when Iexplain it to my clients, I make
the distinction that spirit isthere.
So they're always there on theother side.
The moment that they move intothe spirit world, they're fine,
they don't get stuck, right?
They are accessible from amediumship perspective, but it
really depends on the grievinglevel of the sitter, of the
(29:31):
person coming, because if goingto this mediumship reading is
gonna be number one, full ofexpectations of what uh from the
sitter of what they want tohear, what they want to say, or
who they want to hear from,right?
But also number two, if they'reso deep in grief, they're gonna
change the vibration of thereading, and it's not gonna be
beneficial to anybody.
(29:52):
And so, if the if in myexperience, and I love this
conversation, if we can't makethis a positive, loving
experience for the sitter,spirit will show up and be like,
not today.
SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
Right.
Absolutely, absolutely.
And, you know, the otherinteresting thing too is that,
you know, what do you do ifsomeone comes through that your
sitter doesn't want to hearfrom?
SPEAKER_00 (30:15):
That's happened, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:16):
Yeah.
And so, you know, at thebeginning of the reading, I feel
like it's important to say, youknow, you're in charge.
If someone comes through thatyou don't want to hear from or
anything else like that, justraise your hand like this and
we'll move in a differentdirection.
SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
I love how simple you make it, Deb.
Like I you really make it easyand accessible and making sure
that your client feels at easefor these sessions.
Yeah, it's so important.
And and it has to, and I like Idon't think about this mainly
because like by the time it thisis this is something I'll need
to work on, but by the time asitter is in front of me,
(30:53):
generally spirits already beentalking to me.
And so I'm like, let's go.
Um, but I love it because if youset your client up for success,
the whole session is going to bea success, right?
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
Absolutely, absolutely, and it gives them an
out to be honest, you know.
Imagine someone's father comingthrough who was abusive to them.
That's not who they want to hearfrom, you know, and spirit
always gives me that signal whenthat's the case because they'll
come through, but their headwill be hung.
So I know that there's regret inthe way they communicated here
in the physical world, and so Imay communicate that regret, um,
(31:27):
but then leave it alone.
Just say I know they they wouldhave had regret about
communication style when theywere here in the physical world,
and they want me to leave thatwith you.
SPEAKER_00 (31:38):
I love that.
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (31:39):
And then move on, moving on.
SPEAKER_00 (31:41):
Oh, that's so great.
That's so great.
Um, is there are there any otherexamples of not necessarily
grief-informed words, but uhlike where what are some
examples?
I know you've already given themalong the way, but what do you
what is are there any other tipsor tricks that mediums could
walk away with that they coulddo to help put the sitter at
(32:04):
ease or like or words or phrasesthat are very beneficial for for
them to relay some toughinformation for the clients?
SPEAKER_01 (32:13):
Well, first of all, I think that having resources
for our clients is so incrediblyimportant.
So finding a local griefcounselor that you can refer
people to, okay.
Finding it's all about theresources and it's as simple as
that thing right in thebeginning of the reading saying,
you know, I'm going to continueor I'm gonna move forward with
(32:35):
the reading.
If there's things that come upthat you're not comfortable with
or that you need me to move onfrom quickly, just gently raise
your hand and I'll know thatthat's my cue.
Okay.
It's giving them the power, it'ssetting up the reading so that
they're in control.
Really, that's where we can bestrong and stand strong in a
(32:56):
grief-informed and atrauma-informed way, is you're
giving them an out, you'regiving them power over the
reading.
And that's something that is themost important thing, in my
opinion.
SPEAKER_00 (33:07):
Right, because it's a communication, right?
It needs to go both ways.
And if your sitter's notcomfortable, or if you're right,
right, if they don't they needthe out so that they don't walk
away feeling like, oh my gosh, Iwon't use an example, Deb, but
like Nicole was the worst mediumever.
Like, oh my gosh, I walked awayfeeling worse than I did before
because this person came throughbecause of the words and
(33:29):
language that she used, becausewords are so powerful in this
case.
Yep, they are.
And and I mean, it's even cometo the pat fact the the example
I always like to give ismischievous.
I don't know why that word inparticular just constantly
bombards me, but when I evenlike not even grief aside, grief
(33:52):
aside, when I use the wordmischievous, everybody has a
deaf different definition forthat word.
Everybody does.
And so, like when he's saying,like, oh, your dad was or your
uncle, it's usually an uncle,your uncle is really
mischievous, and they'llultimately say no.
And I'm like, no, no, no, he'slike fun and playful in a
positive way.
He's not, it's not negative.
It's he's he likes to playpractical jokes on people and
(34:13):
then they'll say yes.
So if you're a medium and you'relike, oh yeah, that's
interesting because I say wordsand my client can't un can't
take the word, but they can takethe description of it.
That's a really I'm I'm surethat spirit at some level is
saying, like, pay attention toyour words because your words
matter in these readings.
They really do, they really do.
(34:34):
And they can change the wholedynamic of a good session to a
great session.
SPEAKER_01 (34:39):
Right.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (34:42):
Absolutely.
Um, Deb, is there anything thatwe left out?
I'm looking at my list ofquestions.
I feel like I've coveredeverything I wanted to make sure
we were covering, but is thereanything else from a grief or
trauma perspective that wedidn't talk about that you think
is really important tohighlight?
SPEAKER_01 (34:59):
Um, let me just give some thought to that.
unknown (35:02):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (35:05):
I think it's really about just using your heart.
You know, you hear the phraseuse your head.
Well, use your heart on thisone, you know, really have
heart-led communication,heart-led connection.
Um, and just think about kind ofthe way that you would feel.
Think about the words thatyou're using um so that you can
leave the client feeling um warmand fuzzy instead of cold and
(35:28):
prickly.
SPEAKER_00 (35:31):
Mm-hmm.
That makes a lot of sense.
And then maybe from a practicalor application perspective, how
do you recommend mediums dothat?
And I think there is a bigdifference between professional
mediums or mediums that havedone this for a while that can
stay in the power regardless ofhow many questions, how many
thought patterns they interruptversus those are that are newer?
(35:52):
So, I guess would you have anyadvice for newer people to how
do you do this and stay in thepower and balance what you're
saying and right?
Because there's so there's somany balls in the air when
you're juggling this stuff.
So, do you have any advice forthe newbies doing this work on
how they can approach this, evenat like a micro level, that
helps them really educating,yeah, educating yourself is
(36:15):
something that's reallyimportant.
SPEAKER_01 (36:17):
Yeah, educating yourself is something that's
really important, and you know,making sure that um you have
resources to give clients, butalso resources for yourself so
that you can have the properinformation.
And there's a thing out therecalled the Dougie Center, um,
(36:38):
and they do grief-informed umthings.
It's for grieving children, butthere are a lot of great
grieving resources, and you canfind them at www.dougie do-u-g-y
dot org.
Um, and it's really there's awhole wealth of resources there
that you can look at that youcan find that you can sift
(37:01):
through.
Um, and like I said, it's forgrieving children, but grief,
there's it's one of the mostwonderful places I know that has
a lot of grief resources thatcan help other people get up to
speed quickly.
SPEAKER_00 (37:15):
That's really helpful because I don't know
when they said it's not okay totalk, say committed suicide
anymore.
I don't know at what point thathappened.
I missed that boat big time.
So I will be checking out theDucky Center.
Excellent, excellent.
Absolutely.
Oh my goodness.
So, Deb, how do people get ahold of you?
What are you working on lately?
SPEAKER_01 (37:35):
Well, they can get a hold of me on my website, it's
debdicell.com.
Also, my socials are Facebookand Instagram, and it's
DebDisell Medium, all lowercase,all one word.
Um, I am currently working on aclass coming up in January.
It's going to be a virtualintuition 101.
It's part of the Sacred Sensesseries that I'm doing.
(37:55):
And it's really about Intuition101.
It's about getting yourfoundation, it's about getting
the basics, learning what theClaire's are, um, learning, you
know, where, you know, whichClaire applies to you and things
like that.
So I'm really excited.
Um, it's for people that arejust getting started, and that's
going to be taking place at thebeginning of January.
Um, if you go to my Facebookpage, the event is set up right
(38:17):
there.
You can get your tickets.
And I'm really looking forwardto 2026.
SPEAKER_00 (38:22):
Oh, that's amazing.
And then you have your showcoming up, right?
You the intuitive edge.
SPEAKER_01 (38:27):
I do.
I do, I do.
The intuitive edge, we're soulmeet strategy.
So I'm going to be talking to uhentrepreneurs and how they use
their intuition in theirbusiness.
Um, and it's going to be airingon the women's channel, um,
which I'm super, super excitedabout with Deb Drummond Mission
Accepted Media and Easy Way TV.
Um, so that should be coming upin 2026 as well.
SPEAKER_00 (38:49):
You gotta give everyone, you gotta give Deb a
follow, everybody, because Debis going places.
She is obviously, as you cantell, such an amazing
outstanding medium that reallyworks hard for the integrity and
quality of the readings with herclients.
So um give Deb a follow.
I'll add all of that in the shownotes.
Check out her classes,definitely go check out her show
once it's released.
(39:09):
Uh, you can access that throughlike Amazon and Apple and Roku
and everything too, right?
SPEAKER_01 (39:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
You can pick up Easy Way TV onApple, Roku, Amazon.
Um, and it's all right underthere.
And you just pop onto Easy WayTV and you'll be able to see it.
SPEAKER_00 (39:25):
Oh my gosh, I can't, I can't wait.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited for that.
Well, Deb, thank you so much foryour time, sharing your
knowledge and expertise.
And um, I really still thinkthis would be a fabulous class.
So I'm just gonna put that outthere for you.
But everyone, give her a follow.
Um, she's amazing.
And Deb, thank you so much forbeing here today.
I really appreciate you.
SPEAKER_01 (39:43):
Thank you for having me, Nicole.
I appreciate you as well.
SPEAKER_00 (39:47):
All right, love and love you.
Spirit's like, tell her you loveher.
Love you too.
SPEAKER_01 (39:51):
Love you too, soul sister.
SPEAKER_00 (39:54):
All right, have a good one.
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