The University of Life & Arja Hendrikx

Tantra, Sensitivity & the Art of Presence

Forget the clichés, this isn’t about gimmicks or quick fixes.

In this episode, I sit down with Arja to explore Tantra as a grounded, embodied path, one that treats the body as a portal, not a problem.

We talk about what it means to live with sensitivity in a world that values speed, and how slowing down can bring more connection, joy, and courage into everyday life. Arja shares how breath, sound, and small movements can reawaken the body’s natural intelligence, helping you feel more alive and less dependent on external highs.

We explore sex as healing, why stillness can feel ecstatic, and how subtle attention often opens more than intense stimulation ever could. Arja also speaks about the discipline it takes to stay open, how curiosity dissolves judgment, how boundaries clarify as awareness grows, and how to keep your aliveness intact in a noisy world.

This one’s not just about intimacy, it’s about being real, awake, and present.

If you’ve ever felt the pull for “something more” but don’t want to abandon real life to find it, this is a grounded, human roadmap.

If it resonates, follow Arja on Instagram and explore her online memberships to start your own journey from home.

And if you enjoy this conversation, share it with someone who’s ready to meet life, and love, with a little more awareness.

Support the show

If ever you'd like to connect, please don't hesitate to connect via my website www.jamiewhite.com.

I am always open to feedback, reflections, guest / subject recommendations and anything else that might come up.

Thank you for listening, Jamie x

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
So Aria, welcome to the University of Life.

SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (00:03):
Do I pronounce your name Aria?

SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
Aria.

SPEAKER_01 (00:06):
Aha, because some people say Arya.

SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
I know, or Arja.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Depends where they're from.

SPEAKER_01 (00:12):
So I am really excited to talk to you all about
Tantra.
This whole like well, I think somany people have different
definitions for the word.
And there's so many postersbeing like, Tantra is not sex.
Or at the moment, people sayingtantra is all about sex just to
get attention.
I'm curious, like, how do youdefine it?

SPEAKER_00 (00:31):
Yeah, I really like what you're saying, which is
like these posters of Tantra isnot about sex.
And then other posters, it'slike Tantra is sex.
So it's like, what is it?
Is it about sex?
Is it not about sex?
And it actually meets somewherein the middle.
So for me, tantra is really likea spiritual path to get the most
out of life, but to mainly beconnected to something bigger,

(00:53):
to something higher.
That life isn't just aboutgetting up, getting to work,
doing your things, go back tosleep, but that actually we're
part of something that's so muchbigger and so much higher.
And rather than it being a veryoutward journey, which sex kind
of indicates, it's actually aninward journey where the body
becomes this incredible portalthat we can travel through

(01:19):
really this connection withsomething so much bigger,
something so much higher, moremysterious.
And I feel the reason why somany people are excited about
Tantra is because actually theyhave this longing for more depth
in life.
And then maybe they try tosearch for it in sex, and maybe
before they try to search for itin drugs or other ways, but
there is this longing, this likeknocking at the heart of ah, I

(01:42):
have the feeling that there'ssomething more to life, and that
something more to life, that'swhat Tantra can provide.

SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
Ari, I love this.
Sorry, there's a saying I caughton to years ago that
communication is 7% verbal.
And to some they might be like,What do you mean?
Like it's 7% verbal.
What else is it?
And you can see in the verymoment you started speaking,
there's such full expression.
You use your hands, you use yourtone, your face, it all lights
up with certain words and thencontracts down with others.

(02:12):
It's it's very engaging, veryconnective.
Um, but what I heard from thatkind of definition is really
it's a philosophy, it's anapproach to life, and it's
something that offers adifferent dimension.
And I loved that word you said,like a portal.
It can be a portal to a wholenew different dimension.
Lovely, really, really lovely.
I um it's quite something to getto have a chat with you because

(02:36):
you've been a friend over thelast number of years, and
somebody who I've known is justvery deeply committed to her
journey, her practice, herfaith.
Um, but more recently, what'sbeen so nice is following your
journey in terms ofprofessionalism, in terms of
like literally, it's like it'sit's like hundreds of students
are now coming to you to followthe path that you've gone on

(02:58):
yourself.
And I I kind of I feel there's akind of a well, Tantra, when we
jumped into the definition, it'sa big, big term with multiple
different impressions.
So you go to one authority andthey might suggest it's one
thing, another, and it's a wholeother thing.
But it feels like you're carvingout your own path within the
space.
And the people that you're kindof that are following you, that

(03:18):
you're not kind of saying, hey,look, this is what it's all
about.
You're saying, hey, this is thisis how I enjoy this, and this is
how you could enjoy it too.
Would that be fair?

SPEAKER_00 (03:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
And this is very much how weteach.
Like, I'm very much a fan ofembodied tantra.
Like, I've studied tantra in itstraditional sense, as many
classical teachings andscholarly teachings.
Then there's very modernteachings where we find a lot
around like the sexuality andlike the more the personal

(03:47):
development of it.
And the way that I teach is Ibring them together.
So I honor the essence of whatthe teachings of Tantra actually
are, what's been written inthose scriptures thousands of
years ago, created by a muchmore advanced conscious
civilization than what we haveright now.
And how can we actually applythat into daily life so that

(04:10):
these people that are searchingfor something more can really
find something that practicallyworks?
So it isn't something, oh, Ialways need to go to a training
or a workshop, and I need to beguided by this expert in order
to find that connection withinmyself, but rather how can this
be a different way of life andhow can you start making

(04:31):
different choices in life sothat your life feels more like
alive, exciting, fulfilling, andmore connected to yourself.
So the part of like embodied andmaking it you and what works for
you is really central to to howwe teach.

SPEAKER_01 (04:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I get the impression, likewhen I when I when I think of my
dive into this space, and likewe we found ourselves at
different workshops and andlearning under different people
simultaneously, and and I foundthat there were some that um
they seemed like great intheory.
They were they were these thesetypes that had such a knowledge

(05:09):
base, but when you would look atthem, you'd be like, one second,
are you practicing this?
And then there's others that itfeels like they live this
practice.
It's it's I think there's a termactually we talked about before,
embodied leadership.
And I think that's there's areally interesting kind of let's
say separation between there aresome that can talk the talk, but

(05:30):
they don't walk the walk.
And then there's others thatactually sometimes they might
not even be able to talk thetalk, but they are walking it so
finely.
And I find for me, like when Ireflect on my learning journey,
I actually am not quiteinterested in any authority
figures.
I want to know, I want to tuneinto the people that are living
and breathing their practice.
And that's exactly why I wantedto interview you.
Because this, this certainly,for me, observing you over the

(05:53):
last number of years, you liveand breathe this space.
And and I and I wanted to ask,like, yeah, I wanted to tune
into like the living andbreathing of this practice.
How does it show up?
And immediately when you firstanswered your question, I was
like, Oh, well, you can see itstraight away in how she
communicates.
It's such full communication,it's full such expression in
terms of tone, it's suchphysical expression in terms of

(06:15):
your hand gestures andeverything.
And I think like what I'mcurious of is in a time where a
lot of people are, let's say,weighed down by their traumas
and life, it seems like thispractice is something where
trauma releases a huge part ofit.
Taking weight off your shouldersis a huge part of it, and it's
almost coming back to thatkid-like energy, that free like
spirit within all of us.

(06:36):
Would that be fair to say?

SPEAKER_00 (06:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
I feel it's bringing thataliveness back.
Growing up in a society with somany rules, so many regulations,
so many don't do this, don't dothat.
No, that's not allowed.
Just act normal.
Like all these conditioningaround trying to fit in in a
society that's very in the mind,and where anything that's kind

(07:00):
of out of the ordinary is weird,and being sussed down from the
moment that we're children inour expressions, in our
explorations, in even ourimaginations of like things that
no, that doesn't exist.
Oh no, that that can't be real.
So we get shut down on so manylevels as we grow up.

(07:22):
And in one way, that's part ofour education because we need to
grow up as adults and we need toknow what's right and wrong and
how to move in life, but it alsocloses off to those more magical
parts of life, and it's likealiveness that children have,
and that it feels so free.
Like when I look at children,they're so free.
And the moment I started withTantra, I started to find that

(07:43):
little girl back inside of me.

SPEAKER_03 (07:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (07:46):
And I realized that actually she had suppressed
herself in many ways, and thatthere was, yeah, that there was
this like shyness, and in a way,like holding back in life so
many in so many ways.
And when Tantra started to givethese life-affirming practices,

(08:06):
it's like you're here to liveyour fullest potential, you're
really here, like you're God'screation, and everything around
you got is God's creation.
Why not play with that?

SPEAKER_01 (08:20):
Okay, so yeah, it feels like life can get really
serious at certain times andlife can get really heavy.
And certainly that there'ssomething that comes up in this
podcast so often is just theweight of trauma, the weight of
issues.
I'm kind of what I'm hearing,and and also sorry, the weight
of judgment and impressions interms of how we should show up,
either through our socialcircles or our societies.

(08:40):
And what I'm hearing from you isit's like, look, at the very
heart of this, it's aboutactually creating a safe bubble
around yourself where you don'thave to show up how you think
you need to show up societally,but in actual fact, you start
learning to give yourself thefreedom to show up as you are,
and what the really truest senseof that essence is your
childlike energy.

(09:01):
It's almost like a practice ofreturning home to that playful
self.
Because I'm like, as I'm sittinghere chatting and I'm sharing
this, I'm kind of rememberingback to being five, six, seven,
eight, running around the gardenand having this almost this
complete built-up story of whatwas playing out.
I was part of an Indian forceinvading a base, and and I'm

(09:23):
like, where is that imaginationgone?
Where is that energy gone?
Where is that playfulness gone?
And is it actually gone or canit be returned to?
And what I'm kind of feelingfrom you is it's like, no, no,
no, look, Jamie, this practiceis about coming back to that and
unleashing that energy, thatimagination, that playfulness
that's there for you, andcreating a bit of safety around

(09:45):
that too, so that you can enjoythat.

SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
That be true, and you are very playful.

unknown (09:51):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (09:55):
It comes out in in so many ways inside of you and
like the jokes that you make andhow you show up and the
cheekiness that you have.
And I feel with these practicesit would bring that out even
more, right?

SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
I well, I I was I think I was really, really lucky
in getting introduced to thiswork.
Um, but what I really like aboutyou, so what I what I've kind of
found in some spaces in thisworld is that they're they're
quite ill-disciplined.

SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 (10:21):
Uh ill-disciplined, like not very um, they're loose,
let's say, like they're wild.

SPEAKER_00 (10:28):
And ah, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (10:30):
And in actual fact, in some of the conversations
we've had, you've challenged me.
And you've challenged me in areally interesting way.
Because what I what I what Ireally want to tap into is
actually like because you'reyou're talking in this in this
regard about like there's ahigher calling to it, there's a
higher standard in all of this.
So, like, for example, say thebuzz that we're kind of talking

(10:52):
about.
Some people will be like, Well,do you know what I may as well
just have a few drinks and I'llget that same energy, or may do
some drugs and get that energy.
And we've had severalconversations where you were
like, you can do that, yeah, andyou might enjoy that energy for
a little bit, but you'll loseyour natural access to it.
And I kind of get the impressionthat you hold yourself in to
really, really high standards ofpersonal self-care, but it's not

(11:14):
just for the sake of it, it'sactually because on the other
side of that discipline is agreater capacity to access these
energies that you're talkingabout.
Yeah.
Would that be fair to say?

SPEAKER_03 (11:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (11:24):
Could you talk a little bit more about that for
me?
Because I'm I'm so interested.
Because I think sometimes peoplethink like, oh, if you abstain
from drinking, your life isboring.
And you're like, no, no, there'sa good fun on the other side of
it.
And like from a male side, Iknow you're gonna be like, and
if you can abstain fromejaculating, there's a whole
other side to it.
And I just wanted to yeah, Iwanted I wanted to ask into this

(11:47):
because I I I'd really love tohear your your insight.

SPEAKER_00 (11:50):
Yeah, and this is what I love like these other
substances, they can give a theycan give a glimpse of an
experience of what's possiblewhen we move into an altered
state, right?
So let's say people takemedicines, whether that's plant
or any other form of medicine,and there is this incredible
experience.

(12:11):
Then first and foremost, that'spossible within this universe
that we live in, becausesomething opens inside of our
consciousness that thatexperience is possible.
In order to get to this likehigher consciousness where
people make profound changes intheir life.
I've heard so many people theysaid, Oh, I did ayahuasca, or I
did this journey, and now mywhole personality changed

(12:32):
because I got such an insightand such a download, and my life
has changed.
That's possible.
In this case, you rely on anexternal substance to get you
there.
To me, that doesn't feelempowering.
Because what if you were able toget there, which we can, we see
this everywhere.
In Tantra, there's a saying, asabove, so below, as within, so

(12:55):
without.
So that gateway, in order to getinto those insights and into
those states, there's a naturalpathway that goes there.
But because there's so muchtrauma, there's so much social
conditioning, there's so muchdisempowering beliefs that don't
empower the individualindividual.
What do we do?

(13:15):
We go again to an externalsource in order to get ourselves
into this high state instead ofactually creating that natural
pathway there.
And this is what Tantra has donefor me and what I love speaking
about so much, because it's beena gateway to higher levels of
consciousness, where really mybody is a portal, and not just
my yoni is a portal, not just mysexual aspect is a portal, but

(13:40):
like so many ways that this bodyis a vehicle to have these deep
and high and ecstatic andexpansive experiences, but not
just once a year.
Like for me, these are normal,regular states that I get into
through my tantric practices.
It's not like, oh my god,finally it happened again.

(14:00):
Like I used to do 10-daymeditation retreats.
Finally, I had one glimpse ofsamadhi, and then that would be
like one out of five meditationretreats.
And this is like on a regularbasis, it's like, okay, I'm I'm
tapped in, I'm tuned in, I'mturned on, I'm I'm in alignment,
I feel this like everywherearound me.

(14:23):
And the body, like if we look atthe the sutras, the radiant
sutras, for example, a verymodern embodied interpretation
of tantra, it constantly saysthat your body is a gateway,
your body is a vehicle, yourbody has all the access points
to experience this this lifemore deeper, just the same way
that people would take asubstance or go and and and

(14:45):
achieve a high experience.

SPEAKER_01 (14:47):
That's lovely.
There's a kind of a thought,like there's a lot actually
coming up, and there's the wholedivinity side of things and a
godlike relationship and allthis that I really want to
explore.
But if I was to kind of pullback, my my kind of experience
is that for whatever substanceswe might take, drugs, alcohol,

(15:08):
uh, medicines, they kind of likebelow the roof off things.
And you get this exactly as yousaid, this amazing experience,
but it's so beyond what yourpractice allows for that but it
gives you such a taste of oh mygod, that's amazing.
That all of the substances youdon't have the practices to get

(15:28):
there.
And and so you think, okay,well, if I want to experience
that again, I have to take themedicines again.
And it almost creates, let'ssay, this third party
dependency, this outsourcedependency, which to be fair, if
you keep just taking the drugsand not developing the expertise
to get there, yeah, you arereliant on a third party and
you're losing your personaljourney within yourself.

(15:51):
And that's something thatactually, to be honest, it kind
of scared me.
I was like, I want to pull rightback.
I had great fun indulging yearsago, but pulled myself right
right back because I recognizedthat I was taking away, let's
say, the motivation.
I I and I was losing my owncapacity to kind of work towards
that.
I had still, as I sit here infront of you, you're very

(16:13):
inspiring for me because you youenjoy these crazy like states,
almost magic-like states to athird party.
But I love like I find myselfvery inspired because you have
this self-discipline, you havethis restraint, you're not
taking anything, and you'relike, no, no, you can get here,
just keep going.
And I think we know that.
Like if it's studying for examsor if it's trying to get on a
sports team or something, weknow we're not an outstanding

(16:36):
player right away.
It takes time and it takespractice.
It doesn't if you take some likelimitless tablet or something
like that.
You might skip the queue for abit, but it wears off, and then
you're left without.
So that's what's kind of comingup for me.
It's that like the thesesubstances can actually perhaps
be great for opening your eyesto what's possible, but don't

(16:57):
let them distract you fromfiguring out your way to do that
naturally because it's there foryou.
That is a possibility, but anover-reliance and a dependency
will hold you back from everrealizing that.
Fair?

SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
Yeah.
And and what I think is reallybeautiful to mention here is
that it doesn't always have tobe this big thing.
Like with an external substance,it's like, okay, I'm gonna do a
journey, it's a few hours, butwhen it becomes a natural
gateway, it can just be duringthe day, like a moment or it's
like, oh, I feel this expansion,or like I am so like it's it's

(17:32):
it doesn't have to be this peakexperience, it becomes embodied,
it becomes integrated, itbecomes all around, and it's
just this awareness starts to beexpanding of the subtle realms
of the subtle energies that arehere, and life becomes so much
more pleasurable because there'sattunement to subtlety.
And like in a society where welive where there's so much

(17:54):
chasing of peak experiences,then again, it's like depending
on on something outside.
But when there's this likeembodiment of I am so in
attunement with my own body,with my own energies, then you
will start to feel more in everyday, which doesn't have to be a
big peak, oh my god, myconsciousness expanded and I'm

(18:16):
here for three hours, but it'slike, oh, just for five minutes,
my consciousness expanded.

SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
Can I break this down in a practical example to
make sure I kind of got this?

SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
So let's say, for example, say I grab my arm,
yeah, and I grab it hard, okay?
And I feel that, and there's anice feeling, it's like I feel
my arms held.
I take my hand away and I go todo it again.
And interestingly, because myhand's kind of gotten used to
being felt like that, I need tograb it a little bit harder to
feel the same sensation.

(18:46):
And if I want to do it again,unfortunately, my my arm's kind
of numbed down to being held sohard, so I need to really grab
it tight to get that samesensation.
And I think that's quite aninteresting analogy for life.
On the other side, when you'retalking about the subtle body,
for me, if I put my hand forwardnow, so it's a more sensitive
side, and if I stroke my fingervery lightly across my skin, it

(19:11):
actually takes me a moment tofeel it, but as I zone myself
in, I feel it a little bit more,and then I take my hand away.
And if I bring my hand back, Idon't actually even need to now
touch my arm.
I can actually feel and so onone side, this harder grip
actually numbs me out andnecessitates harder.

(19:34):
But on this other side, thissofter touch heightens
sensitivity and allows forsofter touch even more.
And is this essentially like themost practical kind of insight
into this?
It's like, hey, look, yeah, youcan you can go the hard route
and you'll keep needing greaterand greater stimulations to get
the same experience.

(19:55):
Or you can tune into your moresubtle body, you can heighten
your sensitivity, and throughheightening your sensitivity,
less will show up as so muchmore.

SPEAKER_00 (20:03):
That's the best example I ever heard.
That's so good.
I want to steal that one fromyou.
And that's exactly inlovemaking, right?
This is such like easy to bringinto love making.
If in love making I'm constantlyneeding more stimulation and
stronger stimulation, then thebody will always keep craving

(20:27):
for that.
And then at a certain point,like you said, it's like the
body just starts either tobecome numb or it's like is not
satisfied because it needsfaster or harder or stronger.
But if on the other hand, inlovemaking, we sensitize the
body so that the tiniest touchis like, oh my god, this is so
pleasurable.

(20:48):
Then there's a whole world thatopens in subtle sensations that
the physical really starts tolike work together with the
subtle and with the energetic.
And then lovemaking just has amillion more opportunities than
actually being in these fast andhard and strong practices that
usually because what happens thebody numbs, right?

(21:10):
Like the body numbs with likethis, yeah.
So it's it's a great example.

SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
I I'm actually dying to explore this with you because
this I whole idea, I love thisprinciple of sexual healing, not
just something to to sing about,but an actual fact like really,
really true.
And I I unfortunately I went toan old boys' boarding school, so
it would be fair to say that Igrew up with way too much porn
in my life.
And my idea or my impression ofsex from a young age was it's

(21:36):
hard fucking, it's hard sex.
And with that simple analogy,it's like, well, that's a that's
a root of diminishing returns.
The harder you fuck, the greatersensitivity you develop, the
greater, sorry, the good theharder you fuck, the greater the
numbingness that comes, theharder you have to fuck, and the
less pleasure.
And really what like yourpractice, it's like, no, no, no,

(21:58):
it's not about this crazyperformance that some people
think it has to be.
And in actual fact, if you cantune into the sensitivities,
actually, the greatest lovemaking could be inside in uh
stillness, and and I'm reallycurious about your work because,
like, so much of my belief, likewhen we gave that earlier

(22:18):
insight into Tantra, it waslike, Jamie, what this really is
about is taking the weight oflife's toll off your shoulders.
It's about letting that innerchild within you come back to
life and free yourself of thestrain, stress, the strain, the
dis-ease that may haveaccumulated in your life.
And so when I feel at this intoreal practice, it's in

(22:39):
connection with another and it'sin love making and it's an
accelerated effect to that.
So I'm kind of interested tohear like love making as a as a
supercharged medicine, lovemaking as a sexual healing
practice.
Um, what can you share aboutthis?

SPEAKER_00 (22:56):
Oh, there's something that drops in that I
would like that.
I feel brings a topic that wejust spoke about in this
together.
So, in love making, rather thanit's like harder, faster,
stronger, which for the malebody desensitizes the cock
completely.
For the female body, imaginewhat happens when someone just
gets penetrated, so it numbs herentire yoni.

(23:20):
So then both just need more andmore extreme experiences.
I used to be completely numb.
I didn't feel anything,orgasming for me was super hard.
I was way too much in my head.
So that's another wholecomponent, like what happens on
the mind.
But the moment that I started tolearn these practices to like
re-welding my body andresensitizing my body, now in

(23:42):
love making, one of the thingsthat I love saying to a lover is
okay, when we are moving, butinstead of like bum, bam, bam,
bam, bam, bam, it's more likethe waves, you know, of two like
it's like two rivers flowingtogether, and then even the
pause and just be like, okay,close your eyes and just bring
the consciousness to the tip ofyour cock, like bring it to the

(24:06):
tip of your cock, and then feelthe tip of my cervix and just
meet me there.
And that is such a differentlike awareness of what happens
inside of the body because thenall the consciousness and all
the presence, I will go down inmy yoni.
I'm like, wow, I just feel thetip of his cock and the

(24:27):
consciousness of the tip of hiscock and of my and then it's
like a whole new layer opens.

SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
Okay, so there's a couple of things that are
opening up for me in thatregard, right?
It's because one, if theexperience is too fast, it's too
distracted, you could never tuneinto that part of your body.
But also, if you're in your headand you're nervous and you're
wondering, oh, what does shethink?
What do you think?
What I'm really learning is thatwhen you're thinking, you can't
feel.
But the more you feel, the lessyou can think.

(24:58):
And so if you're actuallyactively bringing consciousness
to a part of your body, whichsounds kind of sophisticated,
but I've learned it as simply aslike just pick a part in your
body, perhaps the palm of yourhand, point to it, and breathe
into it.
And it's weird, with everybreath, you seem to feel more
and more in this space.
So, what you're saying is inlove making, in connection, for

(25:20):
the male to literally breatheinto the tip of his cock, for
the female to breathe into hercervix and bring all the
attention, all theconsciousness, and as a result,
all the sensitivity there.
That's when less and less isactually needed.
But ultimately speaking, moreand more starts to show up and
everything then unfolds fromthere.

unknown (25:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (25:40):
Yeah.
And the trick is, because ofcourse, there's so much sexual
deconditioning that needs tohappen for two beloveds to be in
that space.
Because as you said, maybe ifI'm just worried, I used to be a
big pleaser in the bedroom.
So the only thing I was worriedabout is like, am I doing it
right?
Is he enjoying it?
Am I being good enough?
So if I'm with those thoughts inthe bedroom, you're out of your

(26:03):
body, then of course I'm notfeeling what's happening inside
of me.
For me, it's like, wait,lovemaking can be I focused on
feeling for myself.
I was so in the pleaser of theother.
So this would be like 10, 20, 30steps way too far.
But the trick is to not try tostill the mind, but to give the

(26:24):
mind a purpose, to give the mindto focus.
Because we want to involve themind, because otherwise, all
these insecurities are comingup, or these thoughts, or this
mental activity comes up.
So instead of letting my mindtake over, it's like I give you
a task, beautiful mind, focus,and maybe the tip of the cervix
is too advanced because a lot ofwomen might not even feel that,
but just focus on the sensationsthat you feel with the cock

(26:46):
inside of you.
So just focus on thosesensations, and now my mind has
a task.
Oh, great, my task is to focus.
I'm gonna focus on what I feel,and this way there becomes like
a mind-body coherence where themind isn't actually trying to
distract or disassociate orescape from the situation, but

(27:07):
rather I'm using my mind to feelmyself more deeply, if that
makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
What's coming up for me, right, is that okay, so
we've we've tuned in here andwe've heightened sensitivity and
we've brought two beings intocomplete presence.
And when they get out of theirminds and into their body,
what's actually happening is anenormous de-stressing.
So when I give this note of likesexual healing, this is when sex

(27:32):
is highly de-stressing, actuallyhighly healing, coming into
presence.
We all know how how meditationis healing.
And we all know how, forexample, like if you go into a
coal bath, it will stop yourmind, you will feel your body,
and it has such a detoxifying,such a cleansing, such an

(27:52):
energizing effect.
There's a part in me that's kindof giggling a little bit, right?
Because I think a lot of peoplehave made their their trauma and
their issues such heavy lifting,right?
Such such tough work.
And it's like, oh, I'm going onmy wellness journey.
It's like, oh, God help them.
They're going to be lost for afew years.
And it's like, you can go.

(28:13):
I think I think we are a bitone-dimensional as beings.
There's loads of different pathswe go.
But what I'm kind of feelinghere is like, hey, you can
meditate alone in a cave, or youcould perhaps practice this love
making.
Uh, and you might get prettysimilar benefits, perhaps even
more in some regards.
So I love the idea that like weas humans, we generally speaking

(28:33):
go for the most complicatedroute, the most challenging
route.
But I think intellect is reallywell figuring out the simplest
way of doing something, theeasiest way, or in fact, the
most pleasurable way.
And I kind of love like whatreally strikes my curiosity
about Tantra at its essence isyou can heal your traumas, not
sitting in a room talking forhours and be charged a fortune

(28:55):
with some counselor, but you canheal it with having great sex,
you can heal your life, you canreturn to your inner essence and
re-energize your whole beingwhilst having a whole load of
pleasure at the same time.
I'd love to ask, how true isthat for you?

SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
Well, answer yes and no.

SPEAKER_01 (29:14):
Brilliant.
Give me the no, because I get abit carried away with certain
things and certain theories.
So would you shoot certain partsof that?

SPEAKER_00 (29:19):
Yeah, a lot of people come to Tantra and they
think exactly what you justdescribed.
Oh my god, and we're gonna usesexuality as my spiritual path
and for my healing, and it'sgonna be amazing, and we're
gonna become this milthyorgasmic being, but then it's
not an easy path.
Like, there's been so many timesthat I've been here with my own

(29:41):
limitations from my mind, withneeding to expand so much beyond
the norm, with insecurities thatare coming up, with like really
needing to sit and do my innerwork.
Because if I'm actually gonnatune inside, which none of us
have learned in society, Isuddenly sit with all the
uncomfortable.
Comfortabilities of what'sstored inside of me.

(30:02):
And I'm suddenly sitting therewith all my shit.
And instead of running away fromit into like another
distraction, I actually am gonnalearn to be with it.
Because if I want to have thecapacity to be so orgasmic and
feel myself so deeply, I alsoneed to have felt all those
traumas, all those wounding, allthese insecurities, all my
coping mechanisms.

(30:23):
So there's a lot of inner workthat comes, a lot of personal
development work that comes inorder to actually be in that.
Oh my God, everything feelsamazing.
And with opening up to feelingso much, that's not just in the
bedroom.
Then there's a sensitivity thatstarts to be developed with now.
I walk into places and I do getoverwhelmed more easy.

(30:46):
Or I do feel like, oh my God,actually, this is too much for
my system because now I start tofeel this feels good for me.
That doesn't.
Actually, this is my boundary.
I'm a no to this, I'm a yes tothat.
Whereas before I was such apleaser, I would just please
anything and anyone would walkin and everything was fine.
Now I walk into a restaurant andI'm like, hey, the music is too

(31:07):
loud.
Can you please tune it down?
Actually, we're the only oneshere.
Can you just change thefrequency of the music to be
more calming?
And I'm starting to literallyjust create the environment that
I want because I do have aheightened sensitivity, because
I've learned to feel myself somuch more.
So, yes, on one end, amazing.
Love making is going to be somuch better, life is gonna feel

(31:29):
so amazing.
But if like there's a quote, youcan't you can't um laugh all
your laughters if you haven'tcried all your tears.
That's great.
So those two come together.

SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
You know, when I ventured into this world, and I
kind of think of our youngerselves, I feel like that's
almost almost childhood,although it's only a few years
ago.
But I remember going to Londonafterwards.
So I was in in Valleyexperiencing this world and
really feeling pleasure like Ihadn't before, lightness like I
hadn't felt before, playfulness,happiness.

(32:02):
And I was like, wow, I I great,Jamie, you've done great.
And then I went to London.
And I remember the first thing Igot off the plane and somebody
bumped into me.
And then I remember I waswalking down the road and an
ambulance came by, and thensomeone got bashed off a uh a
bike.
And I, these are things that Iwouldn't have noticed before.

(32:22):
But with this heightenedsensitivity that I had developed
with nothing but like, let'ssay, a golden carrot at the end
of the stick, I was like, oh,this is fantastic.
Yeah, I absolutely hear you.
I absolutely recognize this.
That when you expand yourcapacity on one end to feel more
pleasure, unfortunately, on theother hand, there's more pain.
There's more sensitivity.
Yeah, you're sensitive to thethings you like and sensitive to

(32:45):
the things you don't like.
And what I found was London wasa place that years prior I had
aspired to live and live in.
I was so excited to live there.
And unfortunately, I found itwas intolerable for me.
And in actual fact, it startedinducing a real depression in
me.
And I went through depressionlike I have never known.
And it was so hard to fathom.

(33:07):
It's like, how am I experiencingdepression?
I have done so much work, and ittook years for me to recognize
yes, Jamie, this depression isthe gift of that work.
It's helping you realize what'snot for you and move you in the
direction of what is for you.
But things before that youtolerated and things before that
you were so numbed out to,you've cleared that baggage.

(33:29):
And it may have you feelinglight and playful and
everything, but unfortunately,it also brings a sensitivity.
The sensitivity isn't toounfortunate.
The sensitivity is the gift.

SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
And one of the things that you said, I think is
really amazing, is that yousaid, hey, now that I developed
this sensitivity, something isclearing out.
And I feel this is such a bigpractice in the tantric path is
this trust.
This trust that a life situationis not good or not bad, and that
everything is offered as a gift.

(34:00):
How challenging it is, I'mcurrently in a very challenging
life situation, and still I'mchoosing to see it as a gift on
a personal level.
And this is this deeper trustthat's happening that when life
presents a situation in yourcase, like a depression, then I
can be like, oh my God, and thisis so shitty for me.

(34:21):
And I'm in this depression, andthis is happening.
But like, what are the giftsthat actually come out of that?
And this deeper trust, again,that like this universe is so
magical.
There's something here thatcreated you, that brought you
here, that will also take youaway from here, or whatever,
whatever is happening after it.
But it's that trust and thatability to see life as a gift.

(34:43):
And I feel there's been so muchmore relaxation that happened
for me when that has landed, notjust on a mental level, but
especially the situation thatI'm in right now, personally.
I really see wow, this is notsomething I believe when life
happens.
Oh, I'm not just saying, oh, yousee, like synchronicity, like um

(35:04):
there is no luck, everything ispre-planned, like God doesn't
make mistakes is something thatI often say, but not just when
synchronicity strikes.
Now it's like, okay, life ischallenging in this moment.
Do I still believe that Goddoesn't make mistakes?
I'm like, yeah, it's not abelief, but I'm really rooted in

(35:25):
it.
So there's this deeper trustthat really God doesn't make
mistakes in any situation.
And I feel that trust has landedsome more just freedom and
relaxation inside of me that Inever experienced before because

(35:45):
I was so caught up in all theshoots and the and and yeah,
being in the the the red rays orhowever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_01 (35:54):
It's kind of an idea I have about life, right?
Is that we have our comfortzone.
Our comfort zone is kind of likeour nest, it's our safe space,
it's like our charger.
And it's great.
It's where we recoup, it's wherewe re-energize.
But if we spend too long there,unfortunately, it starts to wow,
what's it?

(36:16):
If we spend too long there, westart to get lazy.
And we know this.
Like if we go for a run everyday and then we don't go for a
run for a few days, we can'tactually do the run properly or
to the level that we did before.
So if we stay too long in ourcomfort zone, our worlds start
to shrink a little bit.
It becomes actually harder to dothe things we could before.

(36:37):
And yeah, little by little lifecontracts in on us.
And that's with regards to ourfitness, that's with regards to
our energy, that's with regardsto our skills, our capacity, our
connection to our faith, oursource, or anything, our ability
to socialize, our ability totolerate challenging
circumstances.
Once we move out of that, well,that's kind of like that that

(37:01):
unchartered territory, thatexplorative space.
It's quite highly challenging.
Um, generally speaking, whenwe're there, we don't know
what's next.
And so it's disorientating.
We can feel sometimes we'relost, but in actual fact, what
we're doing is we're expanding.
And what's trailing behind thatand expanding with this is our
comfort zone.
That's a great place to be.

(37:21):
If we go beyond that, if weover-exert ourselves, we we burn
out, we exhaust ourselves, andwe have to return to our comfort
zone to recharge.
If we stay too long, starts tocontract.
If we stay just the right timeand move to our outside there,
our kind of zone, I think it'scalled our zone of proximal
development, we get into expandour lives again.

(37:42):
I find that theory sointeresting.
That like what's possible for usis all the time either expanding
or contracting.
What serves us in terms of ourcomfort zone serves us to a
point until it doesn't serve usanymore.
And if we try to over-exertourselves, we can serve a double
negative.
It's kind of interesting, thesenorms, this expansion.

(38:04):
But I'm amazed that life is allthe time flowing, teaching us,
encouraging us.
It's like it's at certain timeswe're encouraged to come back to
our nest to recharge.
Then by a law of diminishingreturns, we're encouraged to
move on.
As we move on and venture outinto the wild, our worlds expand
and we're encouraged to do that.

(38:24):
If we get a little bit tooconfident and we jump ahead,
manners are put on us and we'rebrought back.
That's that filter just I see soclearly now playing its part all
the time in life and puttingmanners on us to a degree.
So, yeah, I think life is alwaysteaching us, life is always
serving us, and it's just howmuch do we want to actually just

(38:47):
see it for what it is andactually uh work with it rather
than, for example, say get lazyand think we're think we're
serving ourselves in our comfortzone when in actual fact we're
shrinking our worlds, or try torush things along too much, and
in actual fact we're holdingourselves back.

SPEAKER_00 (39:03):
I'm really curious.
Is that what brought you toTantra?
Um this like expanding out ofyour comfort zone, or like what
is it that created this likecuriosity inside of you?

SPEAKER_01 (39:20):
So I I was always a really curious type, and I I
tuned into the very masculinemotivational side of wellness.
So Tony Robbins was my man froma younger year, and I I I tuned
it in that philosophy of go, go,go.
And if you hit an obstacle, youjust work harder and bash
through that obstacle.

(39:41):
The only thing is that theobstacles get bigger and bigger,
and you can only bash throughthem for so long until they
actually bash through you.
And I found myself uh pretty,pretty disenfranchised, pretty
upset, um, having worked sohard, but in actual fact, really
beaten myself up in the process.
And uh at a very, let's say,lucky moment, I met this

(40:05):
incredible woman who was reallyinitiated into a tantric world.
And I I remember, I remember thefirst time we made love.
I was like, I feel like I'm aborn-again virgin.
I was like, what the hell wasthat?
And I had that moment of beinglike, I've been kind of having
sex, like I think I'm meant to,but based porn based off porn.

(40:25):
Yeah, and I actually don't eventhink I don't even know if I had
sex as far as I'm concerned.
I think I just pretty muchmeditated, but that was a
greater experience than I'veever experienced before.
And I I think in that moment Iwas like, what the hell is going
on here?
This is completely inner innerinner regard, turned my world
upside down, and I want to learnmore.
And that curiosity, which at onestage went the very masculine

(40:50):
route of harder, harder, harder,like work harder, do harder,
more stimulation.
Suddenly, a more feminineessence got opened up of hey,
you can actually experience moreand greater sensitivity in less.
And that might be a betterserving philosophy for which to
approach life from becauseyou've tried the go-go go and

(41:12):
crashed, and actually perhapsthere's a smarter route forward
from here.
And um, and I that thatdefinitely sparked a huge
curiosity.
And then when I came over here,and to be completely honest, I I
bumped into women like you orwomen like Amanda who are these
you look, you you're actuallykind of like a uh I don't want

(41:34):
to say like a running jokebecause you'll be like, what the
hell?
But I I don't I hadn't metpeople before that are like, oh
yeah, my whole life is this.
And when I met you, your wholelife for me, in my perception,
was Tantra.
You were like, Oh no, no, no, Idon't drink.
Why?
Because I don't want it todistract me from my in my pra
practice, and I was like, Yeah,but what about coming to this

(41:56):
party and and doing all thisstuff?
And you're like, no, no, no, no,Jamie, I go to bed at 9 p.m.
And I get up at 5 a.m.

SPEAKER_00 (42:03):
Maybe 10.

SPEAKER_01 (42:03):
Yeah, and I I was like, okay, and and I'd never
met, like I I actually had,sorry, in school, there were the
rugby players whose lives wereall about rugby, and that's all
they did, and kind of societywrapped its arms around them and
said, You're great.
But I hadn't seen it, forexample, sake, with regards to
meditators, to Tantricas, who,hey, this is my life, this is

(42:28):
what I do, and for me, it wasfascinating.
Like, there's also like thecrypto bros that their lives
revolve around crypto or the gymbros, that there's all sorts of
people here.
But when I came over and met,like, oh, you've spent 10 years
dedicated to this space, you'vebeen running around the world
learning from the best teachersyou can.
What does that look like?

(42:49):
I'm I'm a big believer that likeyou can um you can stand on the
shoulders of giants and seethings from a whole new
perspective very quickly.
And so when I meet somebodythat, for example, is living
their path, I want to get toknow them.
I want to learn as much fromthem.
So I think I had that onegifted, let's say, moment that
set off a whole line ofcuriosity.

(43:09):
And then from that moment, I waslike, right, I want to, I want
to learn as much as I can.
But it was really discerning.
Like I remember we went to aworkshop with somebody in um
Osho's lineage, and I hated it.
And I love that like one thingthat certainly has been in my
path is like a huge curiosity,but at the same time, a great
level of discernment and arecognition of what works for

(43:29):
one person might not necessarilywork for the other.
And so I can look on and admire,say, for example, like you, and
I'd be like, Oh, I love theseelements of her.
I want to learn that stuff.
And I recognize she sacrificed ahell of a lot in other regards.
And I perhaps might recalibratethings a bit differently for me.
Um, but it's so like here hasbeen a gift to see these, let's
say, uh inspiring people thatdedicate their lives to their

(43:53):
practice, one of which isobviously yourself.

SPEAKER_00 (43:55):
And I think what you just said is so empowering, and
this is what for me is soimportant when people come in my
spaces or when they come in mytrainings.
I always say, don't believeanything I say.
This is what I've learned, thisis what I've practiced, this is
what I know through directexperience in my own body to be
through.
Now you go and try it foryourself.

(44:18):
And everybody is so literallyphysical body is so different in
physical constitution, but alsotheir energy is different, their
emotional level is different,their mental level operates
different, their like spiritualsignature is different.
So, one of the things that yousaid, I just really love because

(44:38):
this is the number one thingthat I always share.
It's like, this is for you, thisis here to empower you.
Find what works for you, leavewhat doesn't, and and then it's
like you take the power back inyour own life.
And I remember very often peoplesay, like, oh, but I want to I
want to come to your workshop,it's about sexuality, but I

(44:59):
don't have a partner and I don'thave a lover, so I'm gonna wait.
And I'm like, don't wait.
I started this journey, I didn'thave a partner, I wasn't in a
relationship, and this journeyisn't about then being in a
relationship and doing thistogether, because then it often
becomes about the other.
Actually, the most empoweringthing is to just start this for
you and to do this as a practicethat empowers you as an

(45:23):
individual and then bring it tosomeone else.
And the way that you got kind ofinitiated into Tantra, this is
what happens a lot.
Because men, this path is fullof women.
Because for women, it's likefinally I get to feel, I get to
connect with my intuition,there's something more to life.
Because that work hard, playhard doesn't work for many

(45:44):
women.
We live in a patriarchalsociety, not in a matriarchal
society.
So when women start to discovertantra, that's much more about
connection and about the body.
Women have a natural sensitivitythat opens really fast, and then
what happens?
They meet these gorgeous menlike yourself, they make love,
and then men are like, oh mygod, this is so different.

(46:10):
I actually want more of that.
And this is how women becomeinitiatrices.
And this path is really a paththat is initiated by women.
And this is what I love so much,because then I hear stories of
men like you that years laterare like, wow, that one
lovemaking experience reallytouched me.
And now you're on this pathyourself.

(46:33):
And this is why I love so muchempowering women to, yeah, first
and foremost, you empoweryourself.
And then through that, so manymen get initiated in this path,
and then it part sparkssomething that propels them on
their own journey.

SPEAKER_01 (46:48):
I remember, I remember a uh a friend's partner
was like, Oh, Jamie, that's verycreepy, you doing this work.
I can imagine all thesepredatorial men sitting in a
container with some veryinnocent women being taken
advantage of.
And I was like, How crazy thatyou have that image.
An actual fact, to be completelytransparent, a part of me would

(47:10):
actually say there's an oppositeside to it.
Yeah.
Like when I sit in some of thosecontainers, there may be a 10 to
1 ratio of women to men.
And there are very strong womenwho are very grounded in their
desires, in their presence, intheir connection with
themselves.
And as men, we're not reallyactually taught a lot of that.
We're not taught a lot aboutboundaries.
In my school, we were taught tobe men for others, to put others

(47:34):
before ourselves.
And so actually walking intothose containers, it's it's
quite an interesting one thatlike it took me a lot of work to
not be taken advantage of, tolook after myself.
And I thought it was funny thatif ever I shared my experiences,
people would think that theywould all have this idea that
the men in those spaces can bepredatorial.

(47:54):
And it's like, actually, no,there's huge learning for a lot
of men in those spaces.
And it's it the key thing thatyou noted there was that it's
like it's not as if a lot it'svery male-dominated, a male-run,
a male initiated.
It's like, no, this is actuallyfemale essence and energy, like
at the heart of it, we'retalking subtle body versus hard.
And and yeah, it's led initiatedand uh and owned over in that

(48:23):
regard.
There's also a very particularreason, by the way, why I chose
I really wanted to interview youin this regard.
Um, and it's exactly the pointthat you just made there that
you're like, look, this is anindividual experience.
I'll share what works for me.
Please take everything with apinch of salt.
And in the safety of thiscontainer, I want you to figure

(48:44):
out what works for you and toblossom as individuals rather
than kind of conform to certainideas or lineages.
There's a the what I've actuallyfound is or what I kind of
almost reject is when somebody'slike, you need to do this and it
needs to be this way, and youhold your breath for this many
seconds and you do that and thenext.
And then I understand that thosekind of thoughts work, but they

(49:06):
don't feel like they're I thinkthey work to a degree.
But what I appreciate in termsof what you're sharing is you're
saying, hey, this works to adegree, make it your own.
And that's what makes up thatmissing element, and that's how
you truly embody, and that's howyou truly lead.
And I think that's what's soimportant is that if you are

(49:27):
working to learn a philosophy,you're let's say working to
learn something that perhaps isexternal to you.
Whereas if you're making aphilosophy your own and you're
tapping into what works for youand being discerning in terms of
what doesn't, you're actuallybuilding independence.
So independence versusdependence.
And I think there's realstrength versus vulnerability.
Does that weigh up on your side?

SPEAKER_00 (49:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I've been there.
I've been in the very masculineand rigid practices and where it
was, okay, I'm following thisvery strong methodology and
tantric practices.
And I've I've been there, andI'm really happy that I did
build that foundation.
And there were times where I wasfacilitating, it's like, okay,
and we're gonna do these strongpractices and you know, and all

(50:09):
these mudras and bandas andholding the breath and bringing.
And at a certain point, Irealized, like, wait, this is
rigid.
Now I am depending on my teacherto always like kind of hold the
space for me to tell me what todo.
I'm like, this doesn't feelempowering anymore.
And the moment that I started togo on my own journey and was

(50:32):
like, okay, now I've I'vestudied with so many teachers,
I've lived in so many differentcommunities, I've done practices
for so long, I'm like, at thispoint, I actually trust my own
body as a vehicle.
Yeah, and now I can go within.
And from there, it's like again,I'm not depending on something
external to tell me what I needto do or what I need to feel

(50:54):
inside of me.
And there is a there is a thinline in there because if there's
still so much conditioning thatthat's that's happening, where
we're still so conditioned fromsociety from the way that we
grew up, it's really hard todetermine inside what am I
actually feeling, or what isthere, or what's real, or what's
not, or what's true, or whatfeels good.
So there is there is a level andthe practice of re-wilding, I

(51:17):
call it re-wilding.
In one of the sutras, there's athere's a very beautiful line.
The sutras is where the tantrictexts are written in.
It's nature is wild, and so areyou.
So if you want to open to thedepth of these teachings of
Tantra, then you have to go backto nature and be as wild as
nature.
So, like completely forgeteverything that you've learned

(51:39):
and rediscover your body in anew way.
And that initiation is necessaryin order to open to the deeper
depth of the teachings and cometo a place.
Actually, now I can trust mybody.
But that that process ofdeconditioning is really
important to go through first.

SPEAKER_01 (51:56):
Sorry, when you say now I can trust my body, I think
it's it's quite interesting whattrust and self-care looks like.
Like you you gave that insightof coming into a restaurant, and
like self-care is this music isactually torturing me.
I don't want this music anymore.
That's self-care.
Actually, I'm not comfy sittinghere.

(52:17):
I'm gonna sit over here.
Self-care, learning to lookafter yourself.
Somebody comes your way thatperhaps you're not interested in
talking to it.
Look, I I appreciate you comingmy way, and thank you, but I'm
actually having some time andspace to myself.
So can you please respect that?
Self-care.
A lot of I I find like a lot ofthe foundations of my self-care

(52:37):
came from this work as well, andcommunication of learning what
feels good for me.
Again, I think it's a reallyinteresting thing that for a lot
of men, we're taught to to showup for others before ourselves,
to put our heads down and justwork through it, to actually not
listen to what is coming upinside us and just get on with

(52:58):
it.
And this, these teachings for mewere like helped wake up this
sense of hey, what feels good,what doesn't feel good.
And what was great is that as Istarted to tune into that, I
started to actually recognize itin others and be more
accommodating as a result, moresensitive as a result, and and
more caring as a result.

(53:18):
I think it's a reallyinteresting space.
And I think it's a aninteresting one.
Like, so you could say, hey, thewhole Tantra space is
controversial.
And I have to scratch my headand be like, Well, how have we
allowed whatever essencewhatever amount of controversy
there is deter people fromactually learning from it?

(53:40):
Like for me, when I had todefend no, I'm not some kind of
mad uh creep or something likethat by doing this work.
This work is actually helping mecare for my spirit, my soul,
myself all the more, and show upnot just as a better partner,
but as a better family member, abetter friend.
And I I can't understand for thelife of me how misunderstanding

(54:04):
has allowed people veryjustifiably think, oh, Tantra,
that's that's it's just aboutsex.
That's creepy.
And oh, I couldn't think ofanything worse than sitting in
one of those workshops.
And it's like, do you know whatthose workshops actually are?
How like because you must gethit with a level of controversy

(54:24):
or may have been hit in theyears prior.
How how do you actually kind ofcommunicate the defense?
I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 (54:33):
I don't get it anymore.
I uh I definitely hit it in thebeginning.
Now I feel so rooted and sostrong in my message and so
standing with everything that Ido.
I feel I'm not attracting thatanymore.
And there has been a time whereI started to become more and
more public about what I wasdoing and speaking on tantra and

(54:55):
speaking on sexuality andspeaking on like all these
topics that are even labels, oh,but that's so woo-boo, or that's
so mystic, or that's soesoteric, or that's not rounded.
What's the science behind that?
And I've gone through a wholeperiod where I would just get so
many call them trolls, um,especially on social media, and

(55:16):
just comments and trying to takeme down, or like really this
like um how do you call it thisthe word that you just used?

SPEAKER_01 (55:25):
Destructive dehumanizing.

SPEAKER_00 (55:26):
Yeah, exactly.
And in the beginning it wasreally challenging.
And at a certain point, I waslike, why do I not just stay?
Because I was teaching yogabefore.
I was like, why do I not juststay a yoga and a meditation
teacher?
Because it's way easier, it'sway more accepted.
It also helps people to connectto their bodies, to their
energies, to their hearts.

(55:47):
And then I was just there wasthis deeper, I didn't come to
this planet to just teach yogaand meditation.
I'm here with such a biggermission to wake people up to
something that I can bring insuch a bold, but yeah, very
practical way that at a certainpoint one of my teachers shared

(56:09):
with me.
It's like Arya, it's like havecompassion that their level of
consciousness just isn'tdeveloped to yeah, really see
this bigger picture and thatthey haven't received access to
these teachings.
That there is so much of a thicklayer of society that we have
received.
When I started to go really inthis practice of compassion and

(56:31):
even in blessing, it's like,okay, I'll read those comments
and really see, yeah, I seewhere you're at in your journey.
I used to be there one day, Iused to be that very skeptical
person one day.
And this is not about me as aperson.

SPEAKER_01 (56:48):
Interesting.
Interesting.
So it's not about you.
Actually, you're like a triggerfor them.
You're bringing up their fears,their insecurities.
When they see their work, it'slike, oh, that freezes me, that
scares me, and I'm gonna lashout.
Um rather than actually open.

SPEAKER_00 (57:06):
Right?
It says more about them than itsays about me because there's
something, because if there's 10people and five get triggered
and five doesn't, then itdoesn't say anything.
It's it's like, okay, whatinside of you is being
activated.
And often I have had it happenthat people were triggered, and
a year later they would comeback and they would actually

(57:26):
join the workshop, and they'd belike, Wow, I realized like
something there just gotstirred, and then they would
come and they're like, This iscompletely different than what I
expected.
I thought it was all like yourworkshops were all gonna be like
wild and crazy, but it'sactually really deep and
touching and sacred andconnecting, and and there's all

(57:48):
these ideas that build up inpeople's heart, but when they
actually enter the space,there's almost like an exhale
and almost there's a homecomingof like, oh.

SPEAKER_01 (57:59):
Yeah, I think it's a strange thing why there's so
much confidence in judgment.
So, like we society, we judge somuch, and even to be fair,
there's a there's a degree ofjudgment in terms of like, oh, I
was there, I remember that, andyou're just not on this journey.
I I think it's I think there'slike there's different things
for different people.
We we all have so many differentexperiences we can live in life,

(58:22):
but this idea that one person'sexperience is superior to
someone else's is fascinating.
Like I understand there arecertain experiences that aren't
good for me, and there's certainexperiences that are good for
me, but they are uniquelydifferent in somebody else.
I read somewhere that 25% of thepopulation don't get hangovers,
they have different microbiomethat allows for them to process

(58:43):
alcohol differently.
So alcohol is toxic to some, nottoxic to some, great for them,
lucky for them.
But we kind of almost paintourselves all with the one
brush, and a lot of us kind ofsee the world from our eyes, and
so we judge based on like ourown internal what's good for us
and what's bad for us.

(59:03):
And I think more and more, likecertainly my work is trying to
be like Jamie.
This isn't just the worldthrough your eyes, and this
isn't just the world throughyour experience.
There are multiple differentexperiences, there are multiple
different routes of the journey.
I just I always it's that thatjudgment I find very
challenging, and not just thejudgment, but the commentary.

(59:27):
Um, but more and more I'm yeah,I'm tuning into this idea that
it's like, dude, it's notpersonal, it's not personal at
all.
Actually, somebody's judgmentsays so much more about them
than whatever you're up to.
If you can look at yourself inthe mirror and own what you're
up to and feel truly embodied inthat space, truly like you're in
your authenticity, great, keepgoing.
It might not be for others, itmight be for some others,

(59:49):
definitely not everyone else.
And that's okay.
Um, yeah, I kind of have thisdream of a world where we're all
a little bit more accepting andwe're all a little bit more
okay.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:00):
And I think it's a really good point.
This is not for everyone.
This is not for everyone.
And this is one of the thingsthat for me is so clear.
And if it's not for you, thenthank you.
And I'm sure that there'ssomething else that resonates
more.
And I think that's reallyimportant.
And I've seen a lot of leaders,they're so convinced and so

(01:00:22):
like, okay, and this is it, andI'm preaching this, and everyone
needs to get on board with this.
And I'm in a place where, like,well, I know this is not for
everyone because it'striggering, it's deep, it asks
you to like create so muchself-awareness to do inner work,
to show up differently foryourself and for others.
There's a lot of people thatdon't actually want that.

(01:00:44):
So maybe from the outside thepicture seems nice, but when
they actually dive in, it'slike, oh, this is actually not
for me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:50):
It's kind of funny.
I'm thinking of this example Igave before.
Yeah.
Right.
But there are bodies that aredifferent.
And there are bodies that if yougrab an arm tight and you take
your hand away and you go tograb it, it will be more
sensitive.
And there are those bodies thatperhaps with the subtle touch,
it's like, what even is that?
So yeah, the recognition thatwe're different, there's
different types in us.

(01:01:12):
And some practices will work andstimulate for a lineage of
people, and to the others, theyabsolutely don't.
Doesn't mean one is better thanthe other.
And yeah, same way as viceversa.
It's a lovely one.
That that understanding, Ithink, it brings a hell of a lot
of peace.
It actually probably takes ahuge amount of energy away from
the judging eye.
You know, how distracting areour judgments?

(01:01:34):
But in factual fact, if we canjust recognize we're all
individuals, whole differentindividual experiences.
Go out there and be.
And for whatever judgment youmight get, it's really actually
not about you.
Don't get distracted by thatjudgment.
That's actually more for themthan you.
I love that idea sometimes thatwe we do these meditational
practices of uh build amirror-like uh shield around

(01:01:55):
yourself, and for whatever mightbe coming your way, let it
bounce back to whoever gives it.
I think it's really deeplycertainly for me, I find it
deeply peaceful.
If I meditate and imagine, Ibuild a mirror-like sphere
around me, and for whatevercommentary, whatever judgment
might come my way, I just see itdeflecting back to them.
And in the middle of it, what Ifind is after I do that practice
a little bit, I find myselfdancing quite free.

(01:02:17):
And I think, like at the essenceof what we've been talking
about, it is coming back to thatfreedom and that playfulness
inside ourselves.
And I think you know, sometimeswe shield ourselves or stiffen
ourselves up because of thejudgment on others.
But let's be really true that atthe heart of it, really, it's
our judgment of what others areup to that puts us in a certain
line.
And if we can diffuse thatjudgment, we give ourselves

(01:02:40):
enormous freedom.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:42):
I love that.
And a practice that reallyhelps.
So that for me is to come morecuriosity.
So even if someone has like astrong judgment, then most
likely there is a curiositythere.
There is this mudra that I'msure you know.
If you point one finger tosomeone else, I'm doing it right

(01:03:02):
now, and I look down, there'sthree fingers that point back to
me.
Right?
So if I put the shame on you,mudra, I point at you, and then
I look back, it's like, hey,wait, there's three fingers
pointing back at me.
So there is something here thatsays something about me.
So how can I be curious?
How can I be curious eitherabout what it triggers inside of

(01:03:24):
me or what it triggers inside ofthe other?
Because then when judgment istransformed into curiosity, then
we can actually have aconversation with openness and
be like, well, it sounds likethis is hitting something inside
of you.
Are you, you know, are youcurious about this somewhere?

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:38):
Yeah.
That's a really interestingthing, I think, about
psychology, that the more youyou scrape into it, the more you
realize that we're all speakingin layers or communicating in
layers.
And perhaps we're judging, butreally what we're doing is we're
it's stirring something up inourselves.
And perhaps it's actuallyhighlighting an unmet need or an
unmet desire within ourselves.

(01:03:59):
Can I ask you?
You're I'm kind of like, I feelquite quite excited actually.
You are a woman who hasdedicated yourself to your
practice.
And what I find is that the morewe live in a practice, the more
we start to develop veryefficient tools that bring about
whatever it is that we want forourselves.
And so let's say somebody'slistening on to this, and let's

(01:04:20):
say somebody is trying to feelmore freedom in themselves, and
they are trying to perhaps lightup their sensual and sexual
experience.
And in actual fact, they'veheard rumors of like the
superpowers that you can getwhen you start to really slow
down and tune into yourself.
What do you do for yourself thatlike brings about the most
efficient return?

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:39):
I mean what I do for myself to really slow down and
feel more?
Is that your exact question?

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:47):
Yeah, and what what you might share with others that
if they were listening onto thisand they were like, oof, okay,
I'd like to sample a little bitof this work.
What might that look like?

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:55):
I like to start with a little bit of this work.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:59):
Oh.
Sorry, I got distracted therefor a second.
But I know that you like ifsomebody was looking to start,
if they felt almost quiteintrigued by what we've been
sharing, yeah, and they werelike, what would be an
interesting starting point forme?
Um, and that's kind of leaningoff the edges of some of the
practices that you've developedthat work really efficiently for

(01:05:21):
you and bring about like it'sthe simplest thing to do, but it
brings about the most efficientreturn.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:27):
Actually, it really ties into what we just spoke
about.
It's become aware of yourjudgments and where you judge.
Because I want to start in thisjourney, I want to start with
myself.
And a lot of this actuallystarts in the mind.
Our mind, for both the tantrabut also for sexuality, our mind
is our biggest sex organ.
It can work for us and it canwork against us.

(01:05:49):
So if I start with a practice ofbecoming aware of where am I
judging and start to create moreawareness of that, where does it
say something about me and wherecan I actually start to turn
that around and come with morecuriosity?
And for me, that practice alonehas shifted so much.

(01:06:10):
So in the beginning, I noticedthat I was judging so many
things outside of myself and howmuch that was actually saying
about me.
And when I started to come witha shift of more curiosity
towards life and more curiositytowards the judgments that are
happening, then my wholeattitude already started to be
more receptive, started to bemore open, started to be more,

(01:06:32):
oh wait, I can start to look atlife in different ways.
And I would say that's one ofthe first, the first practices
starts in the mind and startingto understand like where am I
judging?
Where where can I be more opento life, literally more open to
life?
Because when my mind is stillclosed, then I can never let my

(01:06:53):
body open to feel more.
So the mind needs to be openfirst and foremost.
And what I would yeah, reallyinvite into is to spend time
with your body.
Like there's three pillars oftantric embodiment, it's breath,
sound and movement.
So if you can take from time totime in life just a pause and a

(01:07:18):
breath and feel what type ofsensations are happening and
what's going on, and even likemove with that and just like
exhale with a sound and start tocreate more of these moments of
awareness.
These are simple ways.
It's like, oh, I become aware ofmy mind and I become aware of my

(01:07:39):
body.
And these are practices that youcan do throughout the entire
day.
They might sound simple andthey're super profound when this
awareness is being created.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:47):
Okay, so let me explore that a little bit.
So, what I'm kind of hearingfirst and foremost there is that
for whatever it is that I mightbe judging, rather than
indulging in that judgment, Iactually get curious about that
judgment and ask myself, why amI judging the way I am?
What is that actually perhapsbringing up in me?
Am I perhaps deflecting andallowing myself to be distracted

(01:08:11):
when in actual fact the verything I'm judging is perhaps
something I'm a little bit morecurious about?
And if I am curious, perhaps Imight give myself a bit of space
to explore that curiosity.
One, and then two, is actuallyjust to take moments to perhaps
slow myself down, to tune intomy body and away from my head.
And that might be as simple asjust literally practicing a

(01:08:33):
breath in, feeling that breathcome into my body, expand my
lungs, and then almost tune intothe relaxation and the relief
that comes when I release mylungs and breathe back out
again.
And that simple practice of justtuning into that sensitivity
that's there for us.
Well, the more you tune intothat sensitivity, the more

(01:08:53):
sensitivity you'll garner.
And then for whatever it is thatyou might do additionally and
enjoy additionally, thatpractice will lend itself to it.
Lovely.
So it's so simple.
This stuff doesn't need to becomplicated, and perhaps you
don't need to travel around theworld to venture into it.
You can do this very privately,very uh and very simply, and
start to scratch the surface andbegin your journey.

unknown (01:09:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:16):
Yeah.
And I feel having an open mindis the very first start for
this.
All right, because there's somuch more possible.
So if there is this feeling oflike, oh my god, I have the
feeling there's more, there'smore to my life.
Kind of feel like I'm in aroutine or I'm in the same
thing, I'm gonna exploresomething new, something that
like, yeah, brings more juice tolife in many ways.

(01:09:40):
Like, this is an amazing way tostart.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:42):
Yeah.
They say the greatest prisonsare the ones we don't even know
we're in.
And the easiest way to figureout what prison you are actually
in is what you allow yourself,what you allow in your thoughts,
your beliefs, and what's on theother side of that.
Because we kind of live within alens, and those boundaries are
perhaps a prison in someregards.
And so if we can get a littlebit curious on the other side

(01:10:04):
and take them down, we start toreally expand our world.
Not necessarily because we wantto indulge in all aspects of it,
but why live in one frame whenwe can open our minds and our
ideas and our lives to a wholemore round of perspective?
Lovely.
Ari, thank you so much forcoming in and having a chat.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:21):
Thank you.
It's been uh it's been fun to behere.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:25):
If somebody is inspired, if somebody's like,
wow, this is this is interestingand I'd love to connect with you
more.
What's the best way to do that?

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:31):
Instagram.
That's where I'm most active.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:34):
Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:35):
Yeah, I don't know.
It'll probably be somewherebelow or above or to the sides,
but if not, it's A-R-J-A is myname, underscore and then
Hendrix, and you write that witha KX.
That's where I'm most active.
And yeah, if there's if there'sa desire, you don't have to
already travel across the worldand join in person.

(01:10:55):
We also have online memberships,and you can literally start from
your own home.
So that's something that I wouldrecommend to see how is this
landing for me?
Is this something that sparkssomething inside of me?

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:06):
So just on that, like you've built an online
school in this regard, you'redoing retreats in Europe, you're
doing retreats in SoutheastAsia, you're speaking at
conferences all around theworld, and you're now actually
building your own kind of centerHQ here in Bali as well, right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:20):
Yeah, we're building the uh the Institute for
Embodied Leadership here inBali, where a lot of the
practices are going to be rootedin Tantra.
So it's a training center, butit's also going to be a
residential village.
It's called Temple Village.
So people that are in thismindset that are like, I don't
want to live in this like fastculture and like yeah, where

(01:11:44):
everything feels buzzy, buzzy,but busy, right?
Yeah, busy.
English is not my firstlanguage.
And I actually want to live somuch closer with nature and
people that have yeah, thissimilar way of viewing life.
So there's there's a residencythere, people can actually live
there.
It's gonna be a community hubfor people that want to pass
through.

(01:12:04):
And maybe by the time thatyou're listening to this, it's
already existing and you cancome and visit us in Valley.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:10):
I think it's just really important to note that at
the end because I think a lot ofpeople might say, Oh, I don't
have time for that.
I don't have time for this work.
And and some people mightsuggest that like a really, you
know, overindulging in thisworld might be distractive to
career.
It's a really inspiring thingwhen somebody builds a career
out of what they love.
And what they love uh stimulatesthem, grows them, shares with so

(01:12:33):
many others, and does reallywell in the process as well.
And I think there's this newbreed of entrepreneurs in the
wellness space.
Like there used to be an idea ofoh, anybody in wellness, they're
hippies and they're living handto mouth.
And it's like, no, no, no, no.
There's a new breed ofentrepreneurs out there in the
wellness space that are highlyembodied, doing seriously well
and serving a greater impact atthe same time as well.
And I think you embody that.
So I think credit to you, realcredit to you.

(01:12:55):
Thank you.
And we'll see you again soon.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:58):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:59):
Pleasure.