The University of Life & James Xander

Have you ever wondered if psychedelics could be more than just a fleeting experience? In this episode I explore how these substances can act as catalysts for self-discovery and personal growth. 

James Xander is an expert in the field, guiding people in this space and hosting entrepreneurial meet ups for entrepreneurs credit psychedelics for driving innovation and creativity. 

James and I discuss our journeys of self-discovery through psychedelic experiences and explore how these trips reveal the masks we wear and the impact they have on our true identities. 

We reflect on the disruptive yet liberating process of uncovering our authentic selves, sharing stories and insights that highlight the importance of embracing external disruptions to achieve internal tranquility. 

We also guide you through the essential elements of preparing for and experiencing a psychedelic journey. From setting intentions to creating a safe environment, we cover it all. 

We also delve into the broader societal implications of psychedelics, discussing their potential to de-hypnotize individuals from societal influences and empower them to pursue their authentic dreams. 

Whether you're curious about psychedelics or looking for new paths to personal growth, this episode offers valuable insights and practical advice.

Support the show

If ever you'd like to connect, please don't hesitate to connect via my website www.jamiewhite.com.

I am always open to feedback, reflections, guest / subject recommendations and anything else that might come up.

Thank you for listening, Jamie x

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So this interview has me really excited.
I feel a little bit like I'mcoming out of the closet, but if
anyone's followed me for sometime, they would know I have a
keen interest in psychedelicsand when some people think about
psychedelics I think they thinkit's distractive, it's escapist
.
It's distractive, it's escapist, and for me, I would say it's

(00:26):
the complete opposite.
And I have found psychedelicsto be this incredible tool to
connect in with myself in adeeper capacity and really find
wisdom within me that I, geez, Ihad no idea was there.
Find wisdom within me that I,geez, I had no idea was there.

(00:48):
So I think I have a real treatfor you today with this
interview.
I'm here with James.
How do I pronounce your secondname, by the way?

Speaker 2 (00:53):
James Zander.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Lovely, lovely, and I'm here in Bali at the moment
and I was slowly but surelymeeting these really interesting
independent entrepreneurialtypes.
That's something I love doing,just making kind of an honest
effort every week to meetsomebody new.
And anyway, I came across acouple of really interesting
entrepreneurs who all suggestedI meet this man, James, and I

(01:23):
was like that's interesting,when you know.
When three or four peopleintroduced the same person and
they said do you know what heruns this really interesting
community, I was like, Ooh, tellme more.
And he's like, well, it's ameetup for entrepreneurs, Um,
but it's for entrepreneurs thatcredit some of their edge and
their expertise to their use ofpsychedelics.
And my eyes lit up.

(01:45):
Is that fair to say, James?

Speaker 2 (01:49):
That's a great description of it.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Lovely.
So I feel like I'm almostcoming out of the closet a
little bit in sharing thisinterview because for me I would
say, psychedelics have given mean edge and taken me deeper
into myself and truer as well interms of how I live.
But it's a hard conversation tohave because there's so many

(02:11):
opinions about psychedelics andso many people would see them as
escapist.
So in chatting with you I'mlike, yeah, I'm excited to kind
of explore this whole space.
Would you have kind of thoughtsimilarly as well in terms of,
like, the divisive perspectivewith regards to psychedelics?

Speaker 2 (02:28):
I don't experience it anymore and I think it's
because I'm embodied in what Ido.
I'm embodied in my feelingsabout them.
You know, when you first startdoing something and you share it
with the world, you getcriticism because you're not
fully embodied in it yet.
But if, let's say, you've beendoing something for 10 years,
someone comes up to you and theyhave a problem with how you're

(02:50):
doing something.
It just bounces off of youbecause they have no idea on the
journey you went on for 10years.
So I see this as the same waythat maybe someone who is fresh
to psychedelics.
They're sort of afraid of whattheir friends might think or
what their parents might thinkor what their family might think
.
But when you live it and youbreathe it and you understand

(03:13):
deep down how important thesetools are for your own
consciousness, for your ownpersonal growth, then someone's
criticism almost feels a littlebit amusing.
You know, like if someone comesup to you and says, oh, these
things, they scramble your brain, have you taken them?
No, but I've heard this on CNBC.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
You know, it's like that's a really interesting one
because there is so muchperspective on psychedelics from
so many that haven't taken them, are afraid to take them and
have read so much fear-inducingstuff about them.
But I have never had anexperience that I could say was

(03:58):
in any way negative.
That didn't serve me, that's agood caveat.
Yeah, I would.
I would own exactly what youjust shared there.
That, like the, the mostcritique I've got is from people
with no experience whatsoeverand I find that funny and I
actually think what you sharedis actually really really true
in life as a whole, that, likefor things that we haven't fully

(04:21):
owned, we get a lot of critiqueand we we actually we let that
in and we let it rattle us alittle bit.
But when we own something, whenwe've kind of committed to it
and we're like look, this is me,this is what I do, this is what
I'm interested in, whensomebody says anything to the
negative, you don't really feelit anymore.
You just kind of recognize, youhave your tribe and then others

(04:42):
, others know, and that's fine,fair.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Absolutely, and if I can add a fun little tangent
here.
So I recently released thisguided meditation and it's all
about the wealth frequency andupgrading your wealth frequency,
and I send it out to mynewsletter and within the span
of like a couple minutes, I gettwo different responses, two
different emails from one person.

(05:07):
James, this is like the mostdisgusting email I've received,
like you should take a look atyour ego and your greed.
This is someone who has notbought the meditation, has no
idea what the audio is about.
They've just read thepromotional marketing message.
Second email from someone whobought it gosh, this is amazing.

(05:27):
Is there more where this iscoming from?
It's like the polarity and thefact that these two feedbacks
came within like a coupleminutes.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
It was fascinating to see yeah, hammering that point
in again, I think the mostopinion comes from those with
the littlest experience.
And um, it's actually quitetrue of life.
What's that quote around like?
The more you know, the more yourealize there is to know, and

(05:56):
so the less opinionated you are,the less uh I think it was mark
twain the more you know, themore you know that how much you
don't know yeah how much bigger.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
The circle of the unfamiliar on the edge becomes
bigger as your knowledge grows.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
And so the more understanding of difference you
become you have, whereas theless you know, the more you
actually think you know and themore opinionated you are.
And so it's actually almostquite a quick little like
summary of like, yeah, thosethat are opinionated, those that
are really really projectingtheir ideas on others, generally

(06:30):
speaking, aren't um, I supposehaven't been exposed to so much
Um like, when I reflect on myown personal journey and
actually, yeah, if I take thatback personally, what I find is
that if I reflect back on acouple of years ago, when I was
most opinionated, I can reallyrecognize right now that that
was when I was most naive and somany of the ideas that I

(06:52):
thought were like these arefundamental ideas I've actually
recognized they're like no, mostof the thoughts and the beliefs
that I had are actuallycompletely wrong.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Do you notice, as you get more wiser and older and
more mature, you become morenuanced about your opinions.
You stop saying theseultimatums of black and white
and you kind of pause for a bitand you're like, actually I
don't know about this or therecould be more layers to this
than I initially thought.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
You know, there's a kind of a, a couple of words
that come at the end of mysentences.
Now I'm like I'm this for now.
We'll see what we'll see whatthe case is in a couple of
months time.
I love that, whereas, like,yeah, I was very full of these
big pillar like statements oflike this is me, this is who I
am, this is what I do a fewyears ago and I'm trying to hold

(07:45):
back giggles at myself, becausethe fact is, we're fluid,
evolving beings, which is kindof an interesting one.
When you think of society now,it's all about people defining
themselves, what gender they are, what sexuality they are and
all sorts, and again, I wouldthink that these aren't static
things.
If we are really pushingourselves into life and leaning

(08:08):
into our edges, thosedefinitions evolve.
Likewise, binding with certainbeliefs and ideas.
We should actually start tryingto just build that from within
and build that from yeah, from aplace that doesn't almost

(08:28):
imprison us in an ideology butinstead actually liberates us
from it and allows us to beexperiences of what Steve
Pavlino once said.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
He said who I am right now does not have to
correspond to who I was fiveminutes ago, or does not have to
match the expectations of mefive minutes ago.
I'm paraphrasing it, but it wassuch a great reminder of how
much the past holds us to theimage that we're supposed to be,
of how we were, holds us to theimage that we're supposed to be

(09:07):
of how we were, and I'venoticed in my life.
The biggest growth I've had inmy life, or the biggest moments
of revelation, came when I brokeaway from my so-called past
authentic self and moved into anew version of me, and then that
became the new authentic self.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Well, can we explore your journey?
Because I am fascinated withyeah, I'm fascinated with
people's lives, people's lifeexperiences that bring them to
where they are right now.
And so, like for you, right now, bringing together a community
of entrepreneurs, helping themreally open up and share their
experiences, not just inbusiness and not just with all

(09:46):
the kind of challenges that comewith that, but also into their
kind of their more magical worldof like journeying into
psychedelics and takingknowledge and wisdom from that
and applying that to their lives, like that's.
That's, for a lot of people,really edgy territory For me,
something that I have held dearbut also held quite sacred.

(10:06):
So, like, when I came acrossyou, I was like, oh, wow, that
like I actually have my owncommunity of entrepreneurs.
We all do this quite privately,but then I was like, oh, you're
doing this publicly.
That's amazing.
So I'm really curious how didyou end up doing what you're
doing now?
Like what's?
If you were kind of thinking of, like the journey to where you

(10:28):
are right now, what does thatlook like?

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Like a roller coaster .
There's been so many momentsthat have led me to where I am
now, but I would say trulydiscovering psychedelics was a
huge piece of it.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
Okay, so that sets me up perfectly for the.
Give me the James before, theJames almost immediately after.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
So the James immediately after experiencing.
Let me tell the story of myfirst psychedelic experience,
because I think that'll paint agreat picture.
And even before that, the storyof the first shift of
consciousness I experienced wasthrough a wheat edible that my
friend gave me, introduced me to, and so that's not even a

(11:15):
psychedelic, but my friend Sky.
He comes over one day, hebrings in this tiny wheat edible
and he knew I was curious toexplore these realms, but I was
super nervous, I had no ideawhat I was doing.
And he's like this this willopen the gates a little bit for
you and what this thc edible didwas I could sense I was james,

(11:39):
but more it was like in 20minutes, while it kicked in,
reality shifted and it was stillthe same reality, still
Vancouver.
We were walking down a littlepath in a park, but it was
different.
And then a month later, myfriend another friend.
We went camping and he broughtsome LSD and that was my first

(12:02):
proper psychedelic experience,some LSD, and that was my first
proper psychedelic experience.
And again the same experience,but even more amplified.
Where?
Same reality.
I'm still me.
I'm not seeing any dragons oranything crazy that you might
see in a cartoon aboutpsychedelics, but there's so
many layers.
I'm seeing frequency.
I'm seeing the layers of my egobeing deconstructed.

(12:25):
While I look in the reflectionof a puddle, it there's just
more.
And that experience of morewhich I always intuitively felt
was there, like since I was akid, I'm like there has to be
more to this reality.
There has to be more than justrocks and trees and skyscrapers,
but I had no proof of it.

(12:46):
It's like I felt the magicpermeating through this reality,
through this hologram, but Ihad no proof of it.
And I'm like I got to see a UFOor I want an out of body
experience.
I want some proof.
And the proof came to me yearsand years later, in the form of
psychedelics.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Okay, let me just take you back to your.
I'm looking at a puddle andseeing the layers of my ego
almost like wash away.
What does that actually looklike?
I'm kind of thinking like if Ilooked in a puddle and if I was
experiencing that, it's likelike I used to be a nightclub
mother and thought I was supercool.
And it's like I see that andthen I see actually how silly I
was.
And then I see you know me insome of my like beliefs in terms
of this is how you should lookafter yourself and this is how

(13:30):
you're healthy.
And it's like see the bullshitin that.
And I, as I'm looking deeperand looking deeper, I actually
just recognize, like the me asalmost a kid and I see me as
like a me and my innocence andme and my silliness Is and I see
me as like a me and myinnocence and me and my
silliness is that kind of whatthat is.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
It's exactly that.
I was looking, so we werecamping in the woods.
It was the perfect place to doLSD perfect place for the first
time.
I was so blessed it was rainingslightly, like the tiniest bit,
so everything was moody and um,and there was these puddles and
I I looked at the puddle andwhat I saw was I saw my
reflection, but on the LSD Icould just see that the masks I

(14:12):
was wearing on top of me forprotection or for defense or for
feeling safe, I could see thatvery clearly.
They were masks.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Okay.
Okay, I get that completelyBecause I just don't want to go
through the personality bashingor the slagging or stuff, and I
recognize the person I show upwith, sometimes with certain
family members, because I justdon't want to get into drama,
yeah.
So I put up these layers orthese barriers, sometimes just
for safety and protection, butin actual fact they might serve

(14:49):
in those moments, butunfortunately they don't allow a
deeper level of connection.
They block off a level ofunderstanding.
I mean, actually, I thinkreally knock my confidence as
well, because if I'm practicingbeing somebody else or putting
up this shield the whole time,it's holding me back from being
my true self and it's holding meback from allowing the world to
recognize me in my true self aswell.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Right, Exactly Well, this is why we admire the great
artists or the pop stars or thegreat actors of the world, is
because in their starness,they're able to fully be
themselves and be seen bymillions of people and not have
that move them from their centeryeah whereas most people, when

(15:31):
they get up to perform orthey're on stage or they have a
mic in front of them, theythey're not able to hold that
center.
They start thinking of whatsomeone else is judging them or
seeing them as and they startconforming their way to how they
want to be perceived ratherthan just being them.
And what the whole?
If I could summarize my wholejourney of psychedelics from

(15:52):
2018 until now, of psychedelicsfrom 2018 until now, it's been
this journey of unlayering,removing these layers bit by bit
, to get more of of the truth ofmyself and to allow others to
see more of that truth okay.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
So when I went for like the give me the book before
and the after, essentially whatI'm hearing is like, look, I
was kind of like so many kind ofpeople find themselves in just
a big load of bullshit,basically.
And the future, from thatleading you to the present, has
just you being really figuringout your true self and being

(16:32):
that true self and coming tothat point, layer by layer.
Um, I always think there's alovely like, there's all these
lovely lines, I think, thatstart to flow through me, but I
really think, like, what life isall about is finding yourself,
being yourself, and and that'sone of those lines that you hear
and it's like what does thatmean?
But the more you, more I cometo live, the more I actually

(16:54):
really believe like, like tofind yourself is quite a journey
.
It takes a lot of experience tofigure out what you like and
what you don't like and then tobe who you are.
That is so much Like there's somany of us and for make this
personal, like there has been somuch in me in the past that,

(17:15):
like so many desires, so manyideas that I have are wants in
terms of how to live, that Ijust was like oh no, god, no, I
couldn't bring that into theworld, I'd be afraid what people
would say, I'd be afraid ofwhat would come from that, and I
buried them.
But little by little, as I'velike I suppose, progressed, I've
just built confidence to bringthat to the surface, to bring

(17:36):
that into my world.
And it is disruptive.
I've said goodbye to lots offriends, I've had lots of
awkward conversations withfamily, friends and all of that,
but I've felt much greater ease, the disruption sets you free.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, the disruption sets you free.
It has to happen because of theI'm not going to put words in
your mouth, but of the lies thatwe've told about who we are, in
a way, or the image we'vepresented and when the truth
comes out of actually this isalso a part of me the disruption
happens and it's a beautifuldisruption to open the way for

(18:13):
more of that truth to comethrough and the right people
fall away and the right peoplecome into your reality to
support that there's a mind bodymedicine specialist who gave a
line that has stuck with mesince on this podcast, and it's
if you keep the peace on theoutside, you start a war on the
inside.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Oh yes, but if you're happy to start wars on the
outside, you foster peace on theinside.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Beautiful, really really beautiful.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
I love that.
So I I suppose now I'm kind offast forwarding you and
apologies, apologies, but I'mI'm really curious of, like when
you're sitting in your circlesof entrepreneurial types and,
and, and they're saying, yeah,psychedelics are incredible for
me, in, in, in terms of bringingan edge and a compliment to not
just how I show up personally,but how I do business as well,

(19:01):
like, what does that actuallylook like?
Because, yeah, there's so muchI have come in contact with, so
much fear and so much scrutinyand so much anxiety around
psychedelics, psychedelics, and,and people would say all the
more when it comes to theircareers, and here's a belief

(19:22):
that turns out on its head thatit's like no, it actually could
be the missing, missing elementthat could help you get to the
next level.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
So I see it in two ways.
In most of the people that I'maround, they either do these
deep trips that unlayer more ofthe truth that allows them to
make better decisions inbusiness, better decisions in
relationships, more aligneddecisions in life, and or they
microdose.
So they take these tiny, tinydoses of psilocybin and it just

(19:52):
gives them that bit of an edgemore creativity, more flow, more
access to intuition.
Yeah, so one of those two orthey combine them.
For me personally, I have beenexploring microdosing a bit more
these days, but in general, Ilove going deep.
I love doing one deep trip amonth and just going way, way,

(20:16):
way deep into my soul, gettingall the homework downloads that
I need and then spending therest of the month integrating
those lessons.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, so my first experience of doing Psycheducks.
I was blessed I had this groupof entrepreneurial friends who
were all very inspired fromhearing rumors of this taking
place with some of the top CEOsin San Fran.
I remember we were like, whatare they doing?
We were all into biohacking atthe time and this was like the
edgy step forward for us.

(20:45):
It was like you know, they'reall doing all these biohacks,
but they're also talking aboutthis.
So we talked about it formonths because we were nervous
and we were anxious, but we werelike we'll all do it together,
four of us, all kind of inbusiness for ourselves, and we
found this beautiful space.
We, we, actually we all, we allwere so conscious of how to

(21:08):
create the space.
We were like let's make itreally color neutral, let's take
down any any like any artworkthat might be distractive.
So it's a really beautifulneutral environment.
Let's light candles.
We curated a playlist, we goteye masks and and we did exactly
this as well.
We didn't microdose, we tookquite a big dose.
The idea was that it was.

(21:29):
We were just curious.
So let's see what happened, andfor me it was the most.
It was such a.
In reflection, it was probablyone of the most beautiful
experiences of my life, to belike there with four friends,
adventuring, um, but like one ofus, one of us led us through a
little bretwith work exercise tokind of calm us all together.

(21:51):
Another kind of talked aboutintentions and like opened the,
opened the forum for us todiscuss fears and and also kind
of like ideas of what it mightbe, when none of us really knew
what it was going to be.
But it was so nice anyway.
Then at a certain point we, we,one of my friends was almost
like a bloody chemist.
He whipped, he had grownmushrooms and then made them

(22:13):
into these beautiful chocolatetruffles and so so anyway, we
took them, put our eye masks onand and laid down and for me,
what just blew my mind was itwas like my you know, when you
close your eyes and you don'treally see much.
But it was like it was likekind of almost tuning in a TV

(22:35):
that suddenly that space that isnormally, normally just looks
like static, started to almosttune in.
That's it Exactly.
And I like I suddenly I wasremembering my dreams and I was
like this is amazing.
That was the dream I had thenight before, and that was the
night, the dream I had before,and I could see my dreams really
clearly and I was like, oh,there's a message here.

(22:56):
How have I not understood that?
And then suddenly I couldremember memories, but not just
like you know how we kind ofhave a blurry memory.
It was like I was literallytaking a videotape in and
putting it and I could rewind it.
I could bring myself right intothe room, I could look around
in that room.

(23:16):
I could remember like the smellin the air, the touch, if
perhaps I was touching somebodyor something like that.
It was so precise and thatshook me.
I was like, wow, I have accessto my dreams.
I have access to my memory at acapacity I just didn't know was
there.
I just didn't know was there.
And then then the strangestthing happened.

(23:38):
I like it's like I was on aswivel chair and I swiveled
around and I was at a boardtable with, like all these
people which for now I would seeas my guides, oh, wow, yes, are
my ancestors, and they werelike there's a wanted me to put
on the Jamie voice.
But no, it was like Jamie, youare way too distracted with your

(24:02):
outside world and you have noidea the power and capacity that
you have in here in yourinternal world.
Can we encourage you to stopgetting so, stop being so
concerned of what the outsideworld thinks and wants of you
and to journey deeper intoyourself, because we promise you

(24:22):
that if you go deeper intoyourself and start honoring
yourself, you're going to liveon a whole different level.
And you talked about a missionand it kind of inspired this
thought.
It was like so we want you todo this, this, this and this.
And it wasn't like that was athird party.
It genuinely felt like it wasan internal part of me saying

(24:43):
this is what we need to do,right, so you have been doing
what you think you need to dobased on what everybody else is
saying out there.
Here's what we should be doingfrom a really deep internal
place, right.
And I left and at that momentit was like you've got your
message.
Now just enjoy the joy of yourimagination and the pleasure

(25:07):
that your body can it canexperience.
And it was amazing.
I was taking on this like thisunbelievable imaginative, like a
symphony of just like oh my God, this is so creative.
This is so beautiful, this isso entertaining, let's say,
whilst at the same time, my bodywas experiencing what I would
could only describe as full bodyorgasms.

(25:29):
I was like this is amazing.
And when I came out of it I waslike I have the capacity to
remember my dreams, go backthrough my memories like a vault
tune into a part of myself thatis like filter, free and

(25:49):
uninfluenced by externalperspective.
It's like my truest voice.
I can experience pleasure at alevel I just never knew.
And, oh my God, my imaginationis better than any movie, any TV
show.
And it shook me.
It shook me for weeks actually,because I was like I didn't
know any of this was in there.
This is amazing.
And so began my mission.

(26:10):
Now I'm kind of looking at you.
I'm like, am I crazy?
Now I'm kind of looking at youand I'm like, am I crazy?

Speaker 2 (26:15):
I love this.
No, I'm loving this share.
It goes to what one of myfavorite authors talks about,
Neville Goddard.
His whole body of work is aboutthe imagination and Neville
believes that the imagination isthe true reality and this

(26:58):
reality is a shadow worldfiltering from the imagination.
So everything you is created inthis 40 realm and we're just
tuning in to the frequency ofwhich timeline we're on okay, I
I'm now at the point where Iwant ask two questions.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
The first is like that was my experience and like
you were, like you've got anonline curated playlist to
compliment psychedelics.
You've got an online checklistin terms of like, here are the
things to do to bring about thebest journey, and, like I, just
did what I knew at the time.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
And you did beautifully.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Okay, thank you.
Well, my first question is Ireally want to ask you could you
tell me more about if somebodysay is listening on, and if
somebody is curious, it's like,okay, well, caution.
And here are the things oneshould be conscious of if they
want to get the most out of thejourney.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
A hundred percent.
So if it's someone's first time, I do recommend a lower dose
than usual because you want toget acquainted with the plant
medicine.
Almost like going on a firstdate You're just meeting up for
a coffee, you're not going fullon deep yet.
That would be my recommendation.
Be careful with the dosage.

(28:11):
If you're not experienced, theenvironment is key, of course.
Dosage if you're notexperienced, the environment is
key, of course.
So you have to make sure you'retripping in the most safe,
comfortable environment.
For most people that would betheir home, an environment where
there's no unintended factorsor unreliable variables coming
into play.
So even though tripping outsidecan be amazing, if you're in a

(28:35):
park and there's a ton of peoplearound, that's not so amazing.
So I would recommend everyonetrip at home in a safe location
where you're comfortable andintention is the most key thing.

(29:08):
I'm doing this as a student andI'm coming into this experience
with respect and withhumbleness will go a long way in
the trip, because you will behumbled if you don't go into it
with respect.
So intention, surrender, right.
So bad trips.
The way I describe why badtrips happen is purely and

(29:29):
almost entirely because ofresistance.
If someone is resisting whatthey're feeling on the inside,
or resisting something externalrather than flowing with it,
seeing how it might be a gift tothem in the trip, seeing how
they might surf the waves ofenergy, how they might surf the

(29:52):
waves of energy, if you cansurrender to the experience and
trust that the mushrooms willguide you and lead you on a
journey, you will have a verysmooth trip.
But if you try to control toomuch, resist the feelings,
that's where the rough tripscome in yeah so that would be
the core, core essentials.
There's a couple other thingsthat I'm sure I can add to it.

(30:12):
I have a, like you said, I havea mushroom trip checklist
what's the domain I love?

Speaker 1 (30:16):
sorry, there's just such a blunt domain to it.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
What is it?
It's mushroomchecklistcom.
Perfect, easy to remember.
So whenever you're tripping onmushrooms or really any
psychedelic, pull up this pdf.
It's completely free, and Idive into what to do before,
what to do during the trip tonot have that resistance, to be
able to surrender, and what youcan do after to integrate it

(30:41):
into your life yeah, I, I I kindof think it's really
interesting why people would dothis stuff at a party or at a
festival or stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Because for me, one of the key things you talked
about was like you don't want tobe in a park where people are
going to come to you or anything, because if you're in a
different world and someonecomes up to you in a different
world, it's it's it's highly, Iwould say, disorientating, it's
dangerous as well.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
If they're doing it at a party or a festival, maybe
a low dose, like just to get alittle bit of a you know,
creative spark in there of somesort or a little bit of visuals.
But if you're doing a deep dose, that's the ceremony to me, you
know, and also for me.
I respect these plant medicinesso much I would not really

(31:26):
dream of doing them in anyenvironment.
That's not conducive to thatdeep, deep work that you're
coming in to do there that's theinteresting one for me.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Like you, you've said respect sacred like this for me
is a really personal thing yeahand it's, it's a, it's a really
sacred personal thing which youwant to treat like that.

(31:56):
And so when you talked aboutpre-care, you talked about like
create a safe space.
When I kind of talked about it,I was like it was candlelit, it
was intimate, it wasundistracting, like taking down
pictures, obviously not havingtv on, being really conscious if
you are listening to music,that there's no vocals in it
that are going to almost likedistract you, making sure like
your phone is miles away fromyou, making sure there's

(32:17):
nobody's going to be knocking onthe door or anything.
That this is you time and thisis like your opportunity to
connect in with yourself.
But, yeah, the last thing youwant is is somebody distracting
you from that?
Want is is somebody distractingyou from that?
Um, the the kind of the secondquestion I had it and it was it
was quite interesting was aroundthe kind of the respect,

(32:37):
because what I found was thismission came up in me and it was
like Jamie, we, you know,really charging you to live more
in tune to yourself and then.
So how about you do this andthis and this?
What I found was that Ifollowed that journey, but once
or twice I didn't.
And I went back into apsychedelic journey and it was
like, why are you here?
And none of the magic was there.

(32:58):
That's what I found.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
You got a lecture.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, I literally got a.
Jamie.
We, like you, came here.
This was sacred, this wasrespectful.
We told you what you needed youneeded to do.
You haven't done it.
What are you doing back here?
And, and it was like youshouldn't be here, and uh, and,
and so this, this isn't going tobe really enjoyable and and it
wasn't it was.
It was like there was none ofthe blissful imagination, there
was none of was.
Like there was none of theblissful imagination, there was
none of the, the uh, there wasnone of the, the, the orgasmic

(33:35):
feelings and and the um and thewisdom.
I did get access to my memoriesand I did get kind of a uh,
this is why we told you to dothis and this is why you should
go do it, go do it, but it itkind of felt almost a little bit
awkward.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
It's like repeating a class that you failed in school
, right?
It's like it's a little bitawkward.
You're there for a secondsemester and you shouldn't
really be there if you did yourwork the first time.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
That was that blew my mind, though, because, like the
first, the intelligence of it.
Yeah, because the first time wasall like wow, wonderful and
amazing.
And then I went to my missionand it was like right, you're
back, we're going to do this andbut but coming into that realm
and I'd been awkward and beenlike what are you doing here?
You've, you've worked to do I,I.
That was very, very interestingfor me.

(34:20):
That was like oh, this isn'tstraightforward.
There's a, there's an intellecthere.
They say a, a psychedelicjourney will give you what you
need yeah and and it was, it was.
It was quite interesting to geta kick in the ass and I just I
wanted to check in with you andbe like, hey, is that normal or
what are your kind of thoughtson that?

Speaker 2 (34:38):
so I've had both of these experiences where it's
kind of an interesting umparadox, where, on the one hand,
I've had what you describe,where if you go back too soon
you're just gonna get to get abit of a lecture, a bit of a
cosmic slap.
And when I did ayahuasca forthe very first time and I had a
really transformative journeyand two weeks later there was

(35:04):
this other shaman that wascoming to Mexico, which is where
I was at the time and my friendwho I did the first ceremony
with, he's like we got to go seethis shaman.
He's been trained forgenerations.
He's like incredible and in mymind I was like, but it's only
been two weeks and if I go backright now I'm probably going to
be lectured so much because Istill I have a year's worth of

(35:26):
homework from this firstceremony and I told him this
fear and he's like, if you go,with respect and just as a
student, you always have more tolearn.
So I was more nervous going tothe second ceremony two or three
weeks later than that firstceremony, because I was like, oh
my God, like I might beenergetically kicked out of this

(35:47):
ceremony for coming back sosoon, but within the first 30
minutes, as we drank the ayahand it kicked in, I felt welcome
back.
I was like welcome back to theschool, and I realized, okay, so

(36:12):
if I come back with a lot ofrespect and intention and
understanding that yes, I did ittwo weeks ago and I'm coming
back, but not for fun oranything like that, but purely
to learn.
And it opened up this wholeother level of lessons,
completely different from thefirst ceremony.
So this was also a differentshaman, slightly different
mixture of the ayahuasca,because each one is so unique.
And so I realized in thatmoment okay, actually you can

(36:34):
come back and be welcomed intothis space, even if you still
have integration to do from thefirst one, but you should not
abuse that privilege.
And that was a very specificsituation where it was a
different shaman.
We really wanted to go see howhe operates and and so I think I
was granted permission to dothat energetically so, so okay.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
So to somebody who hasn't experienced this realm,
when they're hearing, and it'slike granted permission, what?
Because I think we, as humans,we almost have this power, this,
yeah, this real idea of power,that, like for whatever we do,
it serves us.
Like if we have food, it servesus.
Like if we have food it servesus If we go into a hotel, people
serve us.
It's so interesting to be likewait a second, respect teacher,

(37:22):
like in something that youconsume and something that you
can grow or something.
So it's just, it's a.
I can imagine almost whatyou're sharing triggers quite a
bit up in people.
How would you, how would youkind of meet that?

Speaker 2 (37:30):
what you're sharing triggers quite a bit up in
people.
How would you kind of meet that?
I would meet it by saying thatwhat you're connecting with is
not just a compound in a plantsubstance, it's an intelligence,
it's a spirit the spirit ofmushrooms, the spirit of
ayahuasca, the spirit of SanPedro.
These are all very differentfrequencies and different
intelligences that are there tohelp and guide us.

(37:50):
And the substance is more of apermission slip to experience
the intelligence so that itmakes sense in the 3D story and
experience that.
That would be pretty intenseand terrifying for many people.
So it's like we have this storyof, like, take this mushroom

(38:13):
and you will start to experiencethis thing.
But I see it as a permissionslip.
It's a, it's a conduit to thenopen up to this intelligence.
So you're interacting with thisintelligence and it has also
decisions that it can make ofhow much to teach you, how much
to show you, yeah, how much, howgentle to be with you in the
trip, or how much to teach youhow much to show you, yeah, how
much, how gentle to be with youin the trip, or how intense to

(38:33):
be in the trip.
And that's why I said theintention matters so much,
because it's really your onlyway of communicating with this
intelligence and saying hey, I'mhere to learn.
This is what I would like.
I'm open to something else aswell, because that's the
surrender piece, but here iswhat I ideally would like.
I'm open to something else aswell, because that's the
surrender piece, but here iswhat I ideally would like to
receive from this, and then thatintelligence can dance with you

(38:57):
and can treat you like apartner, rather than something
that you're using it forexperience.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Is that too woo?
No, it's not.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
There's a beautiful philosophy in it.
Yeah, is that too?
Woo me on my way and I remembershe went off to LA and she went
to a conscious eating retreatand I I thought it was quite
interesting.
One of the kinds of lines shecame back from that she shared
with me was, she said, jamie,one of the real principles of
this program was that how we eatis a reflection of our self
love and respect.
And, uh, and I think that'squite true in terms of like, if

(39:46):
you eat bad foods, generallyspeaking, they taste great in
the short term and they don'treally serve you in the longterm
.
A lot of the good foods, theymight not be as exciting in the
short term but they really standto you in the long, long term.

(40:12):
And I, I I take that I havethere's this shared level of,
let's say, respect that theyreally meet me where I'm at, if
I'm respecting myself in termsof how I eat, in terms of my
self-care, in terms of mytraining, in terms of actually
just my relationships.
Am I speaking my truths or am Ikind of people pleasing In

(40:33):
terms of my work?
Similarly speaking, is italigned and true to myself or am
I kind of showing up in acompromised fashion because I
want to work with certain peopleand have certain work.
So, if I am being true tomyself, the reflection in the
journey is that I'm taken muchdeeper and the journey
compliments me much more,whereas when I'm out of sorts

(40:54):
and the fact is we're fluidbeings Sometimes I, sometimes I
look at myself and I'm like, wow, jay, amazing.
Other times I'm disgraceful andI love.
I actually love that because II recognize in our world we're
kind of there's such falseperfectionism and
professionalism put out thereand the fact is just that's not
how we are as a species we're.

(41:15):
We're always up and down andchopping and changing and stuff.
But I'm amazed at how, when I'vebeen out of sorts, I've lost
touch with my meditationpractice, my, my yoga practice,
my eating is a bit out of sorts.
I've been just, for whateverreason, stressed and not really

(41:37):
showing up in life how I wouldlike.
The experiences in thosemoments when I've dipped into
psychedelic realms have been sounbelievably different.
So when I am really groundedand caring for myself and loving
for myself, there's no likeblurriness in those journeys.

(41:57):
There is.
It is literally like Jamie,you're back in the chair, you're
sitting around the table withyour guides.
You're having interactiveconversations where you can
really pull knowledge and thatvision to my memory.
It's all there and I can likeswitch the pleasure on if I want
and and and switch theimagination on and everything.
It's amazing.
On the other side, when I'm outof sorts, there's sometimes

(42:20):
purging.
I find like literally I'mvomiting and the image I'm
having is like Jamie, you havebeen eating crap and this is you
getting it out of your system.
Stop eating it.
You have been eating crap andthis is you getting it out of
your system, stop eating it.
Or like my body is.
I feel all these knots in mybody when perhaps I'm not
training as well as I should orsensitively as I should, and my
body starts aching, or if I'mnot honoring myself in

(42:44):
relationships.
I'm seeing how that's hurtingme at a soul level and it's
emotionally tough and it'sdifficult.
And that has been sointeresting because I remember
expressing that to somebody andthey went oh, you had a bad trip
.
And I was like, oh no, oh no,no, that was the best kick in
the ass I've ever had.

(43:06):
That was the strongconversation I had been craving
from my family or my friends,our loved ones, and I'm amazed
at that in terms of how it meetsyou where you're at, or
certainly for me, it has met mewhere I'm at and it has been
just so different in so manydifferent ways.
But that contrast is just soobviously clear for me for me as

(43:29):
well.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
I see psychedelics as truth tellers.
So when you're already livingin your truth and, like you said
, you're aligned, you feel likeyou're.
Everything is going properly inyour mind, in your body, in
your physical health, in yourexternal environment.
When you go on a psychedelictrip because you're already
aligned, it doesn't have to doso much work to then bring you

(43:50):
into alignment, so the trip canbe quite smooth and can go
deeper.
When you're out of alignmentyou're not living your truth,
you've been slacking off on whatyou should be doing.
It's almost like there is thisblocked energy or this knot, and
you go into a psychedelic tripand the mushrooms start
unraveling the knots and thatcan be uncomfortable and it can

(44:14):
be painful and challenging, butthey always bring you to that
alignment.
So for me at least, I find thatby the end of the trip there is
always a moment of catharsis,no matter how difficult the
journey is in the beginning orhow many knots the mushrooms
have had to untangle because ofmy own distortions.

(44:36):
When they're done with me, weare back in alignment, we're
back in tune with the highestself, I think.
If I had to summarize how, whatpsychedelics are really doing,
I think from my perspective isthey're aligning you to your
higher self, your highest, mosttruest, most authentic self and
they're clearing out thebullshit and they're clearing

(44:57):
the cobwebs of the mind nonsense.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
so are you ready for the conspiracy conversations?
Let's do it, okay?
So I really believe that, likethe illegalization of
psychedelics and everything likethat.
So, first things first.
I believe, as a life coach, Iwill be out of a job.
If people were, were new, hadto use psychedelics and we're

(45:19):
using them more intentionally.
Yeah, I would be just likewhat's the need for a coach?
And I always say this toanybody that's working with me
my belief is that no one couldbe a better coach to themselves
than themselves.
They just need to know how toconnect in with themselves.
And this is like.
This is like here's the, here'sthe front door, here's the bell

(45:40):
, just ring it in your front andcenter.
It's.
It's incredible in that regard.
But what I'm amazed about in somany of the lessons is that it
pulls me away from.
It pulls me away from what Iwant to say is like societal
bullshit and I'm being honest,being like a bit of a victim of

(46:03):
marketing our behavioral normsand I'm being trapped really
norms, and I'm being trappedreally Like.
I find with it like, let's say,a psychedelic perspective.
I can very clearly see thefoods that serve me and the ones
that don't.
I can very clearly see, like,how literally I can be hijacked

(46:26):
by brands and how I can be trueto myself.
I can very quickly find how Ican be hijacked actually by
others.
There's a great saying in theentrepreneurial world like if
you don't uh, if you don't workon your dreams, you'll find
yourself working for others.
And like in my, with myperspective, I'm like, oh my God
, that that's, that's like.

(46:46):
That's, that's just, that'slike.
The 99%, most people, arerunning around serving everybody
else but themselves.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
And if you don't have a plan, you're part of someone
else's plan.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yeah, and and.
So what I've been kind ofamazed about is that it really
helps me serve myself and clearout the agendas of others and
and and the agendas, generallyspeaking, of, like, big
companies, and that's a reallylike.
With that knowledge, thatperspective, I kind of stand
back and I'm like, oh wait asecond, this is really, really,

(47:21):
really suspect in terms of, uh,an illegalization yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
So what mushrooms are doing there is, they're
de-hypnotizing you from externalinfluences.
When we come back to the 3d andI don't know how much of it is
malicious and how much of it isincompetence, but there is a lot
of hypnotizing going on.
Even just like your own momcould phone you up and, in a way

(47:46):
, what she's saying to youalthough her fear of something
or her, um, her doubts ofsomething that's also
hypnotizing you in a certain way.
So what mushrooms do is theyjust bring you right back to
your core.
What does your gut say aboutthis?
What does your heart say?
and that's why you can make suchamazing decisions right after a
mushroom trip, because you'refully in alignment with your

(48:07):
inner voice, not not the voicesof your parents, your colleagues
, your friends, who are allmaybe well-meaning, but they
don't have access to yourguidance system.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
I have an image sorry , that's coming up, you know,
when someone's speaking.
I'm remembering going for abeer after my first trip and
like having this moment.
It was a sunny day and I waslike, oh lovely a beer, sunny
day.
And I was like, oh lovely abeer, sunny day, nice view.
I took a sip and I just spat itstraight out.
Oh yeah, I was like this tasteslike shit.
That was amazing.

(48:39):
That was the biggest level ofclarity of like wow, marketing
hasn't just hacked my mind, it'shacked my tastes and like I was
amazed at how clearly I couldrecognize how just it didn't
taste nice and that, yeah, Ilove the way you said that.
Like, yeah, we are subtly andsometimes being quite abruptly

(49:00):
hypnotized by, in my case, myexample brands.
But in other cases, like, yeah,people projecting their fears
onto you, people projectingtheir ideas onto you, it can be
very, very, yeah, peopleprojecting their fears onto you,
people projecting their ideasonto you, it can be very, very,
very hard to think for yourself.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
And I think that's where the more widespread use of
psychedelics intentionally forpersonal growth can be
absolutely life-changing for theindividual, but also for the
whole world.
Because when, when all of usare living from this place of
truth, you can't bullshit meanymore.

(49:37):
Yeah, just see too much.
And this is not coming from anego perspective.
It's like when I look intosomeone's eyes, I can see their
soul.
I can see if they're lying tome.
I might not even be able toprove if it's a lie, but I can
just tell energetically.
And I think we are all bornwith those capabilities.

(49:59):
And then, through schooleducation, everyone's sitting in
their grid of rows and beingforced to be hypnotized by the
teacher.
You lose access to your owninnate knowledge.
And then, fortunately, there'sthese little shrooms planted on
six of the seven continents,which bring you back into

(50:19):
alignment.
It's almost like God, or theuniverse or source, planted
these little hacks in thesimulation so that, no matter
how hypnotized or misled you'vebeen, you will have the chance
to come back to source.
And for some people it'sthrough psychedelics, for others
it's through breathwork, forothers it's through meditation.

(50:42):
But there's all these toolsthat get put in your way, on
your path, clues that if you payattention, you will pick them
up.
You will be called to some ofthem in your own way, in your
own time, and I think it wasRumi that said we're all walking
each other home, so everyone isgoing home to source.

(51:03):
Everyone is coming back to thetruth.
Going home to source, everyoneis coming back to the truth.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
It's been amazing to watch the last 20 years of how
much more widespread things likemanifestation, intention,
energetics, astrology,psychedelics all these things
which maybe were more consideredwoo, are just becoming more and
more mainstream and the newgenerations have no problem
using these tools yeah, I, Ialways think it's a case of like

(51:31):
language, like sometimes peopleover over complicate things,
are like put a little bit toomystique around it so you don't
understand, and I think when wedon't understand something, we
fear it.
But in actual fact, when, likewhen, when things are simplified
or when you just take the timeto understand something, they
become a hell of a lot morestraightforward.

(51:52):
And I, yeah, I like that, likeif somebody was like, hey, look,
what does you know?
What do psychedelics do?
It's like, generally speaking,they help you just filter out
your own bullshit and bring youback home Truth tellers yeah,
truth tellers Lovely, really,really lovely.
I liked also as well that youkind of gave different examples
because, to be honest, like onething that I've massively
recognized is that we're veryindividual beings and what works
for some people might notnecessarily work for others.

(52:14):
So, like in my experience,psychedelics have been fantastic
.
In your experience they have Inmy network of entrepreneurs and
your network of entrepreneurs,fantastic For others might not
agree, but what you shared, likebreath work Everybody's on such
a massive breath work buzz andthat might work for them.
Our yoga might work for themare actually sometimes the

(52:34):
funniest one of the lot is juststillness can be the that's
right, can be it can be thegreat tool, but it's what I can
kind of find frustrating is likethis one, which has been so
unbelievably helpful andsupportive to me, is met with
such fear and it's like doesn'tneed to be there and actual fact
, it's in the right way, in theright fashion.
It can be extraordinarilypositive.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
You mentioned stillness and I kind of laugh
because actually I've had thisrealization.
I feel like half of the benefitof psychedelics is that you're
sitting still for six hoursalone in a room with yourself.
So, even without thepsychedelics, just the ability
to reflect on your life and yourum, your path in life, for six

(53:19):
hours or eight hours in the darkalone, it's already given you
so much.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
And then, on top of that, the psychedelics come in
and start moving the furniturearound in your mind I've been on
so many retreats, workshops,I've worked with so many
different coaches, therapists,and yeah, what you said they're
like like so much revolvesaround just sit in stillness and

(53:48):
let your body catch up, letyour body repair, let your mind
catch up with itself.
The other one, as well, wassleep.
That they were like you wantthe biggest hack.
I remember I almost found itkind of comical, like I went to
all these different health andwellness and then all these kind
of sexy retreats and they allcame down to like the biggest
improvement sleep better yeahlike.

(54:09):
That's one thing I findfascinating about, like the
holistic world and of therapies,that, like you know, most of
the solutions you're gettingit's not a jar or it's not some
product or something like that.
It's just like if you couldsleep a little bit better, this
is going to change all theseareas of your life.
Or if you could just slow downa little bit and find a little

(54:30):
bit of time to be still, youranxiety will decrease, your
depression will go Like it's.
It's I and actually that's justme speaking from my experience.
I'm amazed at how so many of myissues were in reflection Now I
clearly see, see wereself-induced and the cures to
them were not the complicatedthings that I initially imagined

(54:51):
up, but in actual fact, theywere as simple as just sleep a
little bit better, go a littlebit slower, find some time for
stillness.
And yeah, yeah, like.
Certainly it is a funny onewhen you think that, like a
psychedelic journey is generallyabout six hours of just sitting
with yourself.
There's a huge benefit in thatalone.
It's a forced meditation.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
So if someone doesn't meditate, they're going to be
meditating in the mushroom trip.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
I remember I talked to a meditator who said, like,
look, this is what I get.
And I was looking at them intheir elderly age and I was like
how long have you beenmeditating?
They were about, oh, about 25,30 years, wow.
And I was like how long haveyou been meditating?
They were about, oh, about 25,30 years, wow.
And they were like look,everything you're sharing is
what I experienced.
And I was like, oh, that soundsfantastic.
And it was just this kind oflike perhaps he was

(55:35):
disrespecting my like well, Ijust got this from some
mushrooms and I was like, oh God, I'm not too sure if I could do
25 years of discipline to getto there.
So that was an interesting onebeing like hey, look, you don't
actually need the mushrooms.
You can develop these skillsyourself.
It would just take a hell of alot of discipline.
Um, but that's actuallysomething I'm not too sure how,

(55:57):
how I feel Like I love the factthat it can be taken
self-induced.
But then there's the like it'skind of nice to skip the queue a
little bit.
What'd you think?

Speaker 2 (56:08):
All of nice to skip the queue a little bit.
What do you think?
All roads lead to rome.
I see it as a beautiful harmonyof the universe that here's
this discipline that you can,for those that are ready to do
it, for 20, 30 years it willlead them there.
And then here's another toolthat will lead you there, like
mushrooms, and then here'sanother tool like dmt or bufo,
which will lead you there infive seconds.

(56:28):
So it's, there's these levelsof how deep and how fast you can
go, and so if someone's takingbufo, they will reach godhead,
center of the universe withinfive to ten seconds.
That's insane, and it's insanethat it's available to us and
we're so blessed and privilegedto have these sort of tools.

(56:49):
And that's why the respect isessential, because you know,
when you said, some people havefears around psychedelics, a lot
of them are unfounded, but somemaybe are founded.
If someone's not ready to facetheir mind, then they should not
do psychedelics.
If someone's not ready to facetheir shadow, they shouldn't do

(57:09):
it, or they should start in witha very low dose and with a trip
sitter and with a facilitator,because this is deep work, this
is serious work yeah, I reallylike what you shared.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Initially speaking, that you were like look, if
you're prepping for your firsttrip, do less rather than more
less, and you have a lifetimefull of trips.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
You don't need to get the five grams, seven grams,
heroic dose right away, and Ijust don't I?

Speaker 1 (57:33):
I love your all roads from lee to rome.
In that like to be fair,exactly sorry, going back a
little bit where I was like look, there's different tools for
different types and and for thatperson who sat in his practice
for 25 years, that's actuallylike there, this huge pride, and
that that's his path.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
But there shouldn't be any snobbery around it from
either side.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
And also psychedelics , might just not have been for
him, and that's yeah, it'sinteresting how we all have our
own unique lives with our ownunique journeys.
Our own unique lives with ourown unique journeys, and and
actually it's not about me, likenot, like you're not thinking

(58:14):
ill about any anyone else's,it's actually just the openness
and the curiosity and the niceto share the experience and him
to be like, wow, I've actuallyfound this from here.
Oh, interesting, I found thisfrom here.
Have you been able to do this?
And we can actually learn,learn more about each other's
practices through a level ofopenness, um, as well.
So, thank you, I actually justgot that little bit of clarity

(58:35):
from what you shared.
So thank you so much.
Um, james, can I ask ifsomebody wanted to connect with
you and like I love the wayyou've got the websites again,
could you give me those twodomains?

Speaker 2 (58:44):
So mushroomchecklistcom is going to
give you the free PDF of whatto do before, during and after
your trip.
And for those that want sacredshroomy music that I've
personally shroom tested on allmy trips, you can go to
mushroomplaylistcom and that'llgive you seven.
There's seven levels so far,and each time I'm doing a new

(59:06):
trip I add a new level, so thenext one's going to be level
eight and so on.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Sorry, this is.
It's a lovely thing.
Do you want me asking whensomebody, uh, builds a business
around what they love, yeah, andgets giddy sharing their work,
so like, obviously this isn't onvideo, but as I'm looking at
james and you could hear it inhis tone and everything he's
like, he's smiling, he, oh, Ilove this.
And it's level three and thenlevel four and I.
There's one thing that I reallybelieve is we we sometimes we

(59:34):
question whether there's acareer in doing what we love and
following our heart.
You've built a career in doingwhat you love, right?
I think that is reallyinspiring.
This whole space as well,likewise, is really really
inspiring.
But it was just actually sonice to kind of just touch into
that, are you?
You certainly brought it up inme that, like, we can get
excited about sharing our work.

(59:54):
Sometimes people think like, oh,it's sleazy or it's salesy and
it's like, no, it can be reallyhelpful and it can be really
enjoyable.
Our work can be fun and I andthank you for that reminder as
well, because I think it'sreally important For me I notice
I have a brain that sometimeslikes to overcomplicate and
sometimes likes to think thatwork should be hard and I really

(01:00:15):
need reminders and you justgave me a really good one there
that it's like no, jamie, yourwork can be fun and, yeah, you
might put a price tag on it, butit can be really enjoyable, uh,
and you can.
You can enjoy, uh, not justproducing it, but sharing it
likewise.
So thank you yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Thank you for the amazing conversation.
When you said about excitement,it reminds me of bashar's
formula for success.
So bashar has this formula andit goes something like follow
your highest excitement in everymoment, to the best of your
ability, taking it as far as youcan take it, and then follow

(01:00:51):
the next thread of excitementand that's what bashar is saying
.
Is there, there's that source isguiding you.
Your higher self is giving youthese clues through your body's
excitement, through your mentalexcitement.
Of this is something you shouldfollow and I think that's
something that everyone can usewith their career, with their

(01:01:11):
path in life is you're being ledby source oh you're being led
by source.
When I started doingpsychedelics, I had no idea that
I would be having a youtubechannel about it or having
playlists about it that I'msharing with people, teaching
people about how to dointentional trips.
I I had no idea, but Source waspatiently guiding me step by
step, person by person, teacherby teacher.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Mentor by mentor to my ultimate destiny.
It's lovely, I actually thinkit's a nice, like almost parting
meditation for someone to taketheir hand, place it over their
heart and just ask themselveslike, what will bring me more
excitement in my life right now?
What things could I do todaythat would set me up for more
fun, more joy, more lightness,more ease?

(01:01:57):
Yes, and if you were to kind ofclose your close your eyes and
sit into those questions, it'dbe interesting to see what, what
answers would come up and ifyou were to follow them, what
steps they might lead youtowards.
It's a.
It's a the ever ending journey.
That's all, ultimately speaking, leaving us home.
And, uh, and some paths aremore fun than others.
So, James, thank you so much.

(01:02:20):
If, um, if someone wants toconnect with you, best place is
probably Instagram, is it?

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
I would say best place is my newsletter,
jameszandercom.
Okay, because that'll give themdirect access to me, and then
also my youtube channel, if theytype in james zander.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
They'll find all my videos, like james j-a-m-e-s and
then zander x-a-n-d-e-r.
Yes I feel.
It's sorry this is me probablythinking too much about the
x-men, but when when I put an X,it feels very powerful and very
strong and confident.
So thank you.
Thank you for the chats, thankyou for helping me explore into
this space and for sharing.
This is really cool.

(01:02:57):
This is the podcast I wish Igot to listen to 10 years ago,
and so thank you, thank you somuch.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Thank you so much.
It's been such a pleasure.
I loved this conversation.
I loved your questions, yourcuriosity and just the way you
lead the discussion is fantastic.
Thank you, brother Lovely.