The University of Life & Michael Murray

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Michael, how would you define self-respect?

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Self-respect is self-love.
It's something that you can'treally force.
You know.
Everyone says you must haveself-respect for yourself.
Actually, a lot of people don'tactually understand what that
actually means.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
I put it down to the base I'm always a primal man and
self-respect is the things thatonly you can do for yourself,
that no one else can do.
So that would be washingyourself, you know well, you
know, making sure that your bodybody, your hair is clean, your

(00:45):
face is clean, eating the rightfoods.
I mean, unless you're, you knowyou're a toddler, you're
probably going to be feedingyourself, so then you choose
what goes in and out of yourmouth, what you drink, um, where
you put your eyes.
Are you watching tiktok reelsall day, or you watch where you

(01:08):
put your eyes?
Are you watching TikTok reelsall day?
Or are you watching or lookingat uplifting conversations, for
example, podcasts?
Are you reading upliftingmaterial in the form of books or
magazines?
So self-respect is everythingthat the self can do for itself
yeah, so if you do these things,your self-respect is likely to

(01:31):
be solid, rather than trying tobrainwash yourself into
self-respect when you don'treally have it.
A lot of people try and do that.
They try and cut the cornersyeah self-respect, but then
they're eating like crap I am.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
I'm reminded by matthew mcconaughey's
award-winning speech oscaraward-winning speech where he
said he thanked his mum and said, mum, thank you for teaching me
how to respect myself.
And I remember watching thatand being really personally
struck.
I was like, wow, you know whatdoes self-respect mean?

(02:05):
And I see it wholeheartedly.
Similarly, that like how weshow up for ourselves, how we
nurture ourselves, how we carefor ourselves, how we bring out
the best in ourselves, is reallyhow we respect ourselves, and I
actually think my journey tothat was through disrespect.
I wasn't conscious of whatself-respect was.

(02:26):
I really didn't look aftermyself until the point that I
had to, and it was at thatmoment that I recognized,
perhaps, the difference betweenself-respect and a lack of it.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, discipline, sorry, disrespect teaches us so
much.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
And the reason why the disrespect hurts hurts
because deep down, you knowyou're supposed to respect
yourself at a high level yeah,so that hurt is a lesson yeah,
well, I skipped an interview.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
I'm sorry I skipped an introduction with you, but
jimami asking michael, how, howdo you introduce yourself in
terms of what you do um?

Speaker 2 (03:01):
well, I introduced myself as Primal Law, so that's
the name of my brand.
I trade usually, so you know Itrade crypto and stocks.
I manage my own investments, soI'm pretty much a private man.
I am from a very ancientbloodline in Africa and so we're

(03:28):
known as tribal kings and weare very much in touch with the
spiritual world.
And you know ancient kingdoms,the kings weren't just sitting
up on high thrones orderingpeople and telling them what to
do.
It was more of a case of youhad to understand the birds, the

(03:49):
bees, the plants, all types ofcrops and people, and then
people would let you leave thembecause you understood all of
those different areas.
Yeah, if you didn't understandthe crops, how are the people
going to be fed?
You had no idea.
You know, if you don'tunderstand the birds and the
bees, then you're probably notgoing to understand the other

(04:11):
minute details of howEverything's supposed to work in
the cycle.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
So then you'd be oblivious.
How can you leave the people?
So my ancestors over the lastyear have called me back To
understand the laws of thejungle and in fact I didn't
really want to learn thisbecause I was like, no, I'm
sophisticated, you know.

(04:40):
I went to British privateschools, you know from a very
young age, and when they wereasking me, no, come back to the
jungle, you need to learn thelaws of the jungle, I was like
no, I don't want to do it,because we've been taught well,
we've been brainwashed reallyinto thinking that the jungle
and African ways are veryprimitive.
So we've been running away fromit to be more westernized.

(05:03):
And the truth is always at thebase.
So if you take, for example,everything that's primitive
primitive comes from the wordprime, primal, and everything
that's primitive is more simplebut then the simple
primitiveness of nature is thebase.

(05:26):
And the base has to be God,because God is our base, so that
the closer you come back tobase, the closer you are to God
when I'm hearing you share this,what I'm I'm getting is like
the almost instinctively we ashumans like to over complicate
things it's natural and thatactually disconnects us in some

(05:48):
ways

Speaker 1 (05:49):
but the more we can simplify, the more we can allow
actually life really flow.
And when you're saying base,I'm hearing roots, I'm hearing
foundations, I'm hearing hearingprimal, like primal ways,
ancestral ways, the ways thatworked for thousands of years,
that almost.
It's seemingly only veryrecently that we're kind of

(06:10):
shunning a lot of that andmoving to, let's say, more
complicated ways, but notnecessarily recognizing that
they may seem convenient in theshort term but in the long term
they're actually really notserving us as well as older ways
did well, they're serving us,for sure, otherwise people
wouldn't do it.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
But then life is always the challenge of the
balance.
You see, and if one goescompletely modern and forgets
tradition, you're kind of lostbecause you forget where you
come from.
But if you stay where you'refrom, it's very, very difficult
to go somewhere.
So it's always that this isdelicate balance and because we

(06:52):
are moving into a much moretech-focused world, a lot of
people are getting lost, ifreally forgetting where they're
from.
Actually, most people haveforgot where they're from.
And you know, the base of thisplanet has always been the black
man and we understand theplanet better than anyone else,
as we should.
But because our history bookswere wiped, no one looks towards

(07:14):
us as that base, which istotally illogical.
It's like, of course the firstman understands how the soil
works, for sure, sure he does.
For sure he understands howrelationships work Because, well
, he was the first one to makecommunities Like the most
simplistic communities.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Can I be a little bit pokey?
Yeah, and you were like, sowhat you were saying there is
essentially like the black manis the original man, but then as
a result of that, there's ablack man in the original man,
but then, as a result of that,there's a black man in every
white man yes, yes, everyone'sone exactly yeah, I really

(07:54):
wanted to get to that, but yes,so what we're really doing is
saying, hey, everyone recognizethis, this primitive part of
your own self, okay, and what weknow, you know.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
But you just have more layers on top, you know.
But it's good to come back tothe simplistic, because that's
also what we yearn for.
Sometimes life gets so muchcomplex and the people don't
want to admit that.
They actually just want thingssimple.
They want to be moresophisticated and, in the back

(08:27):
of their mind, when they'resitting at home alone, when the
Instagram is turned off, theirmind's going for it.
Mental problems, anguish,trying to keep up with all the
sophistication that's been soldto them.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, yeah, I.
You know, in my work, in mywork with people, what I find is
that, generally speaking, thestress, the anxiety, the
dis-ease that people are feelingcomes from overcomplicating
life.
And the approach that I mostnormally take with people is how
can we simplify?
And I really think the geniusis in simplifying and, little by

(09:04):
little, as we take those layersof complication and distraction
away from people, they start tofeel again.
The numbness goes and I think Isee so many people thrive when
they take that weight and thatburden of complication off their
shoulders and just let theirhair down as such yeah, yeah,

(09:26):
and that's how control systemswork, you see.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
So a lot of the things that are out there people
don't really need, but they'vebeen sold into these, uh,
sophistications and it keepstheir mind busy.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
And because it keeps their mind busy, it keeps them
away from simple things likeeven working on their health how
many people have money and theyeat so bad it doesn't make
sense, you know there's a bunchof like questions now that I'm
getting curious, of like, havingheard you speak.
Actually, there's one thing doyou see your mic?
Could you pull it and put itonto your t-shirt so it's that

(10:00):
bit closer to your mic?
Sure, because you're a softspeaker and I want to make sure
that we hear every word of you.
Brilliant, yeah, um, I'mcurious, like when you gave that
insight there of like how manypeople are so unbelievably
wealthy but at the same time,like really not caring for
themselves in terms of diet and,I'd say, in terms of self-care

(10:21):
across the board.
Can I ask what are your kind ofcore principles in terms of
self-care across the board?
Can I ask what are your kind ofcore principles in terms of
looking after yourself?

Speaker 2 (10:28):
Right.
So I believe in man under God,and so man is the first
representation of God here onthis planet, and for him to care
for anybody else, he has totake care of himself first.
So I believe in eating good,simple foods that mother nature

(10:52):
has provided for us.
Doesn't have to be complicated.
God's design is mathematicallyperfect.
So if God gives you a mango,mango, good you know.
If God gives you a pear or apineapple, that's alright with
me.
Fresh meat, I'll eat fresh meat.

(11:15):
The lion in the jungle eatsfresh meat.
That's why the lion is king.
The lioness eats fresh meat.
That's why she's queen.
She doesn't eat meat that'sdays old.
That's left for the hyenas andfor the vultures, the kings and
queens.
They don't eat anything elseapart from fresh meat.

(11:35):
So I eat fresh meat because Iwant to be big and strong, to be
the king within my territory.
I drink water, lots of water.
I don't drink much alcohol.
I'm not against completelyalcohol.
Sometimes I will drink.
But I'm 42, so I've had toscale back over the last few

(11:56):
years to maintain my fitness andI look after myself.
I use good creams on my body,good shower gels.
I take good care of my hair.
I have my hair cut once a week.
I train in the gym.
I read good books.
I just do everything for myself.

(12:20):
First, I really have a goodself-care regime, so I can't
fake self-love.
I'm practicing self-love yeah,I'm not just telling myself I
love myself, I love myself, Ilove myself.
I'm actually doing things thatshow myself that I love myself.
So if I eat an apple, anapple's good for me, I'm telling

(12:41):
myself I love myself withoutsaying it you know, and it's
really so.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
That's such a simple reorientation of affirmations,
because there's so many peoplethat are looking at themselves
in the mirror and saying I lovemyself, I love myself, I love
myself.
And really it means nothingwithout the actions to back it
up.
But with the actions doesn'teven need to be said, it's
shared in every action, in everymovement that is, in complement

(13:07):
to oneself.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, I used to smoke cigarettes years ago and you
know what the cigarette is.
Cigarette is.
The reason why cigarettes giveyou peace is because you know
that you're killing yourself andit's like a few more seconds to
death.
And that's what brings peoplepeace, because the life's so
stressful it's like.
It's like having peace fromslowly killing yourself.
A lot of people don't realizeit.

(13:29):
That's where the peace of thecigarette comes from okay, I
don't quite grasp that yeah butI, I have to say I really do.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
I love, like when I asked you your priorities,
they're very true to what youshared before.
In terms of simplicity, it'slike jamie I eat well, I drink
well.
I avoid the things that I knowaren't good for me.
I challenge myself in terms oflearning development.
I look after my beauty.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Like very few men will be open about that in terms
of their self-care and theirbeauty, because we've been told
to be rough and tough, yeah, andin some ways because we feel
like, oh, we have to be roughand tough, that we're not
supposed to take care ofourselves and so many men don't
take care and then they find ithard to then lead.

(14:21):
They find it hard to then leadin relationships because they're
not taking care of themselvesas well.
But actually back in the day,you know, hundreds and even
thousands of years ago, the mendid take very good care of
themselves.
You know, if a man was trainingto be a warrior, he had a good
routine.

(14:41):
You know he slept well becausehe knew he had to fight the next
day.
For sure he was working out toget his body in very good
condition so he can wield thesword.
You know he couldn't drink toomuch wine, couldn't be drunk
every day for sure he couldn'tbe drunk yeah you know,
especially if he was a leaderabout amongst men, that was
gonna.
He was preparing to leave themto battle.
You have to have a good routine.

(15:03):
You have to practice self-love.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, if I go back to the first few minutes of our
conversation you noted on theidea of, essentially, history
being rewritten, it's alwaysbeen.
I wholeheartedly believe.
What's that great quote?
That history belongs to thevictors of war, as it should.
And when I think of how ourancestors are portrayed in tv,

(15:29):
media, movies, entertainment,you see, like the warriors of
the past, uh, drinkingthemselves silly and and really
like being rough and tough andgoing out to war.
But the the fact of the matteris, yeah, a disciplined soldier
would whip that person away in asecond.
There's no way that was thekind of the warrior archetype of

(15:50):
the past.
I think the warrior archetypewhich I'm kind of hearing you
share.
It's like it's kind of almost avery distant idea to so many.
But the fact is, yeah, if youwere going to war, if you knew
at some point you were going tosit in front of somebody and
your skills were going to bedetermining factor between
whether living or dying, youwould commit yourself to a high,

(16:10):
high level of self-discipline,self-respect, practice and
growth.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
It's a bit like us guys who go to war today.
We know that if we have to facea meeting in the morning, right
, we're not going to turn updrunk, are we?
No, no, it's the same yeah yeah, but it's.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
It is interesting that for me, when I look at,
like, let's say, the referencesof movies that share notes of
their past, it's like wait, no,it just couldn't have been like
that.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
It like it, just that doesn't add up because we all
know like we've all had nightsbefore where we've really gone
out and been hung over and it'saffected us for a week.
Some of these guys would haveworked that out back then.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, survival of the fittest, I'd say the majority.
At a certain point Would youput your life on the line just
to get drunk?

Speaker 2 (16:58):
No, and you know, if you knew that some person was
going to wield a sword in yourface?

Speaker 1 (17:05):
I actually feel in a much more dangerous world where
I think we take a lot of peacefor granted.
You know, we kind of look atwild animal kingdoms and we
think oh God, that's soferocious.
But if we go back a couple ofthousand years I'd say it must
have been.
I love that in the background.
I think it must have been veryscary roaming around at night.
You know, really there was nosocietal norms, no governing

(17:30):
support to protect you.
You were very much out on yourown.
And do I think I'd be eatingand drinking?
Eating too much, drinking toomuch in that kind of environment
?
Absolutely not.
You'd have your wits about youto a whole different level that
I don't think we could evenimagine for where we are right
now, for your wits about you toa whole different level that I
don't think we could evenimagine for where we are right
now.
For sure, yeah, yeah.
So when we think, I say we, butwhen I recognize in myself a

(17:52):
couple of years ago that if Ireflected back on our previous
generations there was an ideathat they were so primitive, so
basic, so you know, just messing, it's nonsense actually no
essence.
It's nonsense.
Actually.
Their, their level of awareness, their level of um of
independence, their strength,their resilience just must have
been, as I said, unimaginable totoday's standards.

(18:13):
That's true, they were justmore simple.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
But simple doesn't mean that they were dumb.
They were just more simple,which means that they were more
clearer and just smaller aspectsof life that's all it is.
You know, humans today areprobably less clear, you know,
because someone can spend theirtime scrolling all day through
instagram and tiktok.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Maybe 400 years ago, the average man spent a lot more
time thinking about who he wasbecoming because he didn't have
all these different distractionsyeah, I also notice how um
distracted I am by how otherspresent themselves, present

(18:58):
themselves online, and there's athought in me that like, oh, I
should be like that person and Ishould be like that person, and
I've gone on journeys of likemimicking or shadowing somebody
else, only to realize that's notme yeah and I find that that's
something that I'm growingactually like almost frustrated

(19:19):
and like pushing away.
Like when I see somebodyinfluencing factors, let's say
online, I'm like push that awaybecause for every time one of
them shows up and perhapsinspires and excites me, it also
distracts me away from figuringout what it is that's inside me
, who I really am, and I think,like what you shared with that
person from times ago that wouldhave spent a lot of time

(19:41):
considering who they are and howthey're going to show up in the
world, I find that others arevery quickly distract you away
from those thoughts and veryquickly can take you on journeys
away from yourself and tomaintain discipline, to follow
your own path, it's, it's veryhard.
Actually, it takes a lot ofdiscipline and a lot of kind of

(20:01):
like rebellious energy.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yes, that's why it's a lot harder for people to
reconnect with themselves,because now there's so much
access.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Everyone has so much access to each other you know,
it's just like constantmarketing so when you're saying
constant access to each other,the kind of the image that's
coming up for me is if I look atmy phone and I see 30 whatsapps
and this feeling of like, oh mygod, I have to reply and I kind
of pulled away from again me,my time, my pursuit of self.

(20:38):
Um, is that kind of what you'resaying meaning?

Speaker 2 (20:42):
yeah, yeah, which is why it's important the self-love
game, you know to give to selffirst, because you can't avoid
all of those things.
You know we still have tomaintain contact with the rest
of the world.
You know community, but strongcommunities are maintained on
stronger selves.
Yeah, and so that means I havea routine where I tell myself in

(21:07):
the morning I must always giveto myself first so I can give to
everybody else, and I live bythat.
You know, if I'm not feeling sogood you know, maybe I haven't
trained my shoulders and thearms are feeling a little bit
weak I probably wouldn't spendtoo much time with my missus or
my son I'll go and train, I'llrun it off, I'll get myself into

(21:30):
a good state and then I cancome and give good energy to
everybody else.
But I find it weird now toentertain or give to others when
I'm not feeling so good.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah, I notice I'm hearing kind of the analogy of
one should never pour from anempty cup.
Fill your cup first, pour fromthe overflow.
The other thought that'srunning through my head is that
I always thought I wantedchickens when I have a home, but
actually hearing the clues inthe background I'm like no,
absolutely not, I don't wantchickens here?

Speaker 2 (22:06):
Yeah, they're always going off in the afternoon.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
They go off in the morning and they go from the
afternoon too.
Yeah gosh, yeah, I'm nature foryou.
I'm recognizing that, that Iget myself into trouble, um,
with others and and with myselfwhen I haven't filled my cup,
first and foremost.
And yet there's this kind ofthought that I need to put
others sometimes ahead of me andeverything, and it never serves
.
And, with an observationalthought on it, that when I give

(22:35):
to others before I give tomyself, it never serves.
I, there's a part of me thatthinks it does in the moment and
thinks I should, but inreflection it never does.
And so I like that.
I'm starting to recognize thebenefits of retreating at times
when you feel you're out ofsorts.
When you wake up and you justknow you're not in a great,
great space, it's okay to cancelmeetings and connections, to

(22:57):
postpone, to reschedule, so thatyou don't do yourself a
disservice by showing up at 50%or less, yeah, and that you
honour somebody in showing up atyour right capacity, and that
might not be as often as othersaround you might like, but
better to honour yourself inthat respect first and foremost.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, for sure, okay.
Even when it comes to personalrelationships, family, the same,
exactly the same.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Can I ask you then it's lovely in terms of the
collective thought that you haveon so many areas in this regard
what's something that's reallyfrustrating about society right
now?

Speaker 2 (23:41):
I don't find anything frustrating because I
understand it.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
So I just look at it as what is, because if I tap
into mother nature, I understandwhat the plan is, and so
there's nothing to be frustratedfor.
Other people are going to befrustrated, but I'm not okay,
that's, yeah, that's actuallyquite like.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Obviously, that brings you a hell of a lot more
peace than a lot of people thatare getting frustrated by
everything that's going on atthe moment is.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
So could you expand on that a bit more for me, okay,
so right now, the I mean theplanet is always going through
evolution.
It never stops.
Um.
The speed of evolution, though,is affecting a lot of people.
This is where the stress iscoming in.
So what's happening is theplanet is increasing the

(24:29):
vibration, which means thateverything is heating up and
everything is spinning at a muchfaster rate.
Um, this also means things likeinflation, you know, higher
cost of living.
It also means the movement fromthe physical world to digital

(24:51):
world, which we had since Covid,hmm, which is basically the
planet's way of saying, you know, for example, leave the trees
alone, because, before you know,books, money, paper from trees.
We need trees to breathe, andmodern nature's like hey, leave
those trees alone, because ifyou keep cutting down those

(25:11):
trees, none of you guys will beable to breathe, you'll
suffocate yeah so it's time foryou to enter into the digital
world, the etheric world, and sothen that's just.
That was the start of digitalmoney, more or less really
moving into the four digitale-books, for example.
Yeah, so in most cases we won'treally use so much paper again.

(25:34):
That was a huge shift for a lotof people, moving from the
physical world into the digitalworld world into the digital
world.
Also, the planet is alsoshifting through to see who is
going to be the fittest and whodeserves to produce their

(25:56):
bloodline.
Moving into this new age, whereit is a digital age, a high tech
age, an AI, robotic age, andwhat nature wants to do is
replace a lot of people whoconsume but are not living up to
their highest ideal, and thehighest ideal is always love.

(26:17):
That's why self-love isimportant, and ones who are not
very much in love withthemselves will kind of be
turned over to the darkness.
So there's like a balance oflight and dark, and they will be
given degeneracy and lots ofother tools to consume
themselves into oblivion.
And the ones who lovethemselves will take good care

(26:40):
of themselves, and because theytake good care of themselves,
they'll take care of others, andso if they take care of
themselves and because they takegood care of themselves,
they'll take care of others.
And so if they take care ofothers, they're going to be in a
bubble of love.
They'll be able to havepartners and replicate that self
love in DNA into a child whichis more evolved, that child,

(27:07):
from having that DNA programmingfor the parents will be able to
even take better care of theplanet after, and so what human
beings need to realise this iswhy you need to listen to the
black man is that human beingsaren't the most important.
See, every time you eat and youlook at your plate, you might
have a steak on your plate, youmight have a bit of lettuce, you

(27:28):
might have a bit of tomatothey're all just as important as
you.
That's why you're exchangingyourself with the damn thing,
right?
And what's happening is isbecause in the west, or I'd say
the westernised part of theworld, has become very

(27:48):
consumerist, but we're not ableto replace these.
We're not able to replace theseresources at the same rate.
And what I mean by replacingresources, I mean clean
resources.
You know, a lot of farmers aregrowing things very quickly, but
they're using geneticallymodified resources to do so, and

(28:15):
that actually makes the landsick.
So, in turn, it makes peoplesick.
So that's why you're seeing alot of toxicity happening in the
West Coming from the toxic food.
It was the toxic thought tospeed up the process, the
natural process.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
This is such a big, exciting subject for me to get
to talk to you about.
So yeah, I recognize that thereis an evolving pace, vibration
in the world right now where itseems like there's this
sprouting of consciousness in somany but I'm a big believer in

(28:53):
kind of balance and equals andopposites.
It seems like there's thisunbelievable naivety coupled
with the level of superiority.
And when you share Westernthinking.
I don't necessarily think it'slike geographic, I just see it
symptomatic across the wholeworld where there's types that
think that we are, as humans,top of the food chain and we can

(29:15):
consume and we can rip apartand we can do whatever we want
without consequence yeah and Iam seeing the speeding up of,
let's say, the negativeconsequences of that and that,
being a complicated thinking aswell, that we can science our
way out of this problem.
We can sort things out.
When you talk like geneticallymodified, when you also, oh,

(29:39):
think like over tech and and I'mseeing that as like a fast
developing downward spiral- thatwas great but on the other side
, I'm seeing exactly this, thislike developing sense of balance
, of understanding that we donot sit on the top of the food

(29:59):
sorry, food pyramid, but inactual fact we're kind of like
in equal balance to it all andthere's also perhaps a level of
responsibility of bringing agreater level of balance,
perhaps, too, and and thatthat's actually like I love the
laws of karma that for whateverlevel of good we bring to the
world, it will reflect itselfback on us, and I think there's

(30:21):
a karmic thinking coming to somany.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
It's like the lion.
The lion is king of the jungle.
I always revert back to thejungle because, you see, the
jungle is the biggest teacher,because it's so simplistic, it
represents God.
That's why in Egypt we stillhave statues of animals, because

(30:44):
it represented God at thehighest level.
So you see, you see in thejungle the lion when he goes out
to hunt he doesn't massacre.
Yeah, he'll go out.
He'll kill one fresh zebra forthe day and leave the rest for
another day.
So he eats his fresh meat forthe day he remains healthy.
So he eats his fresh meat forthe day he remains healthy.

(31:04):
He doesn't go out there andmassacre the whole thing,
because he needs healthy zebrasfor another day.
You know, imagine if a group oflions went and they found out
where all the zebras weresleeping and cornered them and
said okay, you zebras are notgetting nowhere.
Now you zebras are in a cageand we're going to pick you off

(31:28):
one by one, you know.
So we, you know, we're gonna,you know we're gonna get our
food, yeah yeah right, and thenwe're gonna give some to the
rest of the lions whenever.
So, just by cornering thosezebras, those zebras are going
to have a mental breakdown.
Yeah, who's going to eat thosezebras?

(31:48):
Those lions.
Lions are probably going to endup having a mental breakdown
because of the food that they'reconsuming, you see, so sorry,
michael, I have to interruptthat.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
I just think it is so funny, as you're talking about
the laws of the jungle and I'mlike firstly, there's like a
lovely, nice jungle scape.
Behind you there's all sorts ofanimals, there's like two
chickens chasing each other,there's what seems like an
almost alligator sized lizardcreeping around, and there's a
part of me that's feeling a bitlike oh god, this is a podcast

(32:23):
I'm recording and there's allthis noise in the background.
And then there's another partthat it's like no, jamie, this
is just perfect actually this isvery.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
This is nature.
It's natural.
Where's the lizard, by the way?
Down, down, down down is he abig one?

Speaker 1 (32:38):
yeah, yeah, yeah, let him be yeah, I, I always
remember having um and thisthought around like eating
energy and this kind of ideathat if your food is going
through a whole breakdownprocess and fear and anxiety

(32:59):
before it's slaughtered and thenyou eat it, you're taking on an
enormous amount.
I like what you noted.
You're like, look, I'll eatfresh fruit, I'll eat fresh
vegetable, I'll eat fresh meat.
We're like, look, I'll eatfresh fruit, I'll eat fresh
vegetable, I'll eat fresh meat.
Um, but if meat's been kind ofsitting in a packet for three,
four weeks and pumped up withall sorts of preservatives and
everything like that, it's goingto have a very toxic effect in
you.
simple kind of makes quite a bitof sense but really simple I

(33:21):
think so many of us again arejust choosing to be really
really detached from our foodchain, really really detached
from what actually is self-love.
Like I, I really have this,this image of this naive type
sitting in a mirror saying Ilove myself, I love myself, I
love myself, and then and thennot reflecting that in it, kind
of any of their self-care, theirself-practices, and wondering

(33:43):
why they're feeling as ill asthey are and out of sorts as
they are.
And it's actually with thatkind of perspective it's so
obvious yes, it, it really is.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Yeah, it is the detachment away from nature.
And so when you look at biggercities, obviously they're more
detached because they're lookingat more of the concrete
surroundings and it kind ofconcretes the brain off.
It's actually understanding thebalance in nature and then

(34:14):
these people allow themselves toget sick.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
Um, because the corporations understand the game
yeah, I do feel that you know,you know that note that you said
or sorry, that we both talkedto, essentially that, like
history has essentially beenrewritten and there is a deeper
intellect at play.
Where society on too manylevels is ill serving, it's not

(34:41):
bringing out the best in us,it's bringing out the worst in
so many and that worst isserving the pockets of so few Of
course, that's how the game isplayed yeah that a lot of like
this thought is shunned inconspiracy.
It's like no, no, if you thinkthat way, you're a conspiracist,
you're a hippie, you're this,you're that and the next.
But if you actually just reallygive it a little bit of thought

(35:03):
, it makes a hell of a lot ofsense.
And it's odd that to think in aself-centered, self-caring way
is to be quite rebellious.
To follow your heart is to berebellious, and that there's
this enormous, let's say,normalizing vote, impressed upon
so many of us that if youaren't being normal, you're an

(35:24):
outsider, and if you're anoutsider, we should come after
you with almost pitchforks yeahwell, here's another thought, if
you can bring out the worst inpeople, then there's always
something that they need to buyto become better.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Okay, so then you make them into consumers, but so
then you, your job at the topreally is to bring them as low
as possible, and so they havethis huge range, this huge gulf
to get back to betterness, andalong the way, then you need to
sell them so many other things.
Yeah, if you start them up here, a person who's really really

(36:04):
healthy and better probablywon't need too many things.
He won't need, or she won'tneed, the weight loss program.
They're going to be in goodshape.
You know, I won't need alcoholsanonymous, because they'll be
moderate with their drinking doyou ever look at Rattopia?

Speaker 1 (36:26):
no, it's like the experiments on colonies of rats,
right and like they.
They hooked.
There's so many different kindof experiments on this um, but
where they take a population ofrats and for one they'll put
them in a very sterilizingenvironment with access to drugs
and they'll drug themselves todeath very quickly.

(36:46):
And others they'll put them ina very positive complementing
environment and they'll givethem access to very quickly.
And others they'll put them ina very positive complimenting
environment and they'll givethem access to drugs and access
then to good foods.
They avoid the drugs and theygo for the good foods.
So the good environment actuallystimulates people pursuing,
let's say, their best selves.
That's what I'll pull from thatexperiment, so many others.
If anybody's listening on, it'sactually well worth a long

(37:06):
journey in YouTube because itreflects a lot about us.
I kind of find it's almosteasier to observe traits in,
let's say, a distant kind offormula or a distant experiment
before you take them into yourown, because it can be quite
scary when you see them asconfronting, as so much of,

(37:28):
let's say, the ill care, the illrespect that you have for
yourself is being impressed upon, impressed upon you by the
environment you're in thecompany you keep, and if you
only put yourself in a differentenvironment, how different you
might be and no one gets it allright.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
I mean, look, I vape.
I mean I mean, that's the onlything I.
I don't really drink, unless Igo to europe in the summer.
I really help what I eat reallywell, um, but I enjoy it.
But because my other values areso high in other areas, it will
kind of negate this one off.
But I probably wouldn't do thisif I was drinking a lot and

(38:01):
eating bad food and not trainingah.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
So an indulgence, a vice in proportion, is actually
quite nice to enjoy.
That's the whole point.
You can enjoy it.
That's something that myyounger self didn't get, but I'm
starting to get more and more.
It's like Jamie, your best selfis not some rigid, sterilizing
form of kind of rules androutines.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Those people are the most boring people.
So you know, they don't doanything.
It's like, oh my God, so whatcan you do with you?
It, yeah, I, so you knowthey're one.
They don't do anything.
It's like, oh my god, so whatcan you do with you?
It's like you don't you know I,I do know you know, people like
this in the bud, you know, andthat's like they're so boring I,
uh, I do know exactly whatyou're saying already you know I
was waiting for death well it's, it's like you're boring

(38:45):
yourself too, yeah, and I.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
I now I'm recognizing that there's a lovely balance
and and it is so nice to enjoythe finer things in life, the
indulges.
Indulgences in life and quiteinteresting to observe the
balance of like, let's say,eating a slice of chocolate
cake's delicious.
Eating a whole chocolate cakewill have you feeling sick and
awful for about a week that'svery interesting that there's a

(39:09):
fine balance.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Sugar's bad, but for sure I'll sit with my son and
we'll eat an ice cream.
But we won't have an ice creamevery day, but when we do have
the ice cream, it's so good andit's so nice to treat oneself
yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
And so it's not all about just doing what's good for
you in the basic sense, butactually sometimes the bad
things can be really good foryou too, provided there's a
moderation and, yeah, disciplinearound it yeah, but if you
discipline yourself, it actuallydoesn't become a bad thing.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
This is your concept, like this is.
I found this good for mebecause it's a small, small part
of, and I enjoy the flavor, Ienjoy the vape.
I can still run, I can stilltrain, so I enjoy it and I don't
feel any bad effects from it ifI was feeling really bad
effects from something I'd stopdoing it yeah, interesting.

(40:00):
I have friends and they're stillringing me about.
Oh yeah, well, I drank so muchlast night and I've got this
huge, terrible hangover.
And I'm thinking in the back ofmy head well, why are you doing
it like?
Why don't you just enjoy thedrink?
Like, what about?
No one's talking about theflavor?
You know, especially thesepeople.
They don't talk about theflavor.
They didn't say, oh, I went outfor a few drinks last night and

(40:22):
, oh and, what I was drinkingwas absolutely delicious well, I
sorry I have to.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
Kind of an interesting one again for drink.
I went off drinks drink foryears.
Then I recognize actually, youknow what sometimes, every so
often, having a drink is lovely.
It can be a real way to connectwith certain friends as well
but.
I don't necessarily like what.
I recognize that, if that's myway to connect, indulge in it
because it's lovely to have thatconnection still in my life.
Yeah, um, I definitelyrecognize there's a interesting

(40:52):
one for me in terms ofrecognizing the marketing impact
on my tastes.
Like sometimes on a hot day I'mlike, oh, I'd love a cold beer
and I'm like, well, actually Idon't really it doesn't taste so
good, but I have started tohave an affection for a spicy
margarita delicious and ittastes good.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
It tastes good, one tastes really good, great three
not so great one's great yeah incertain moments and I think
about enjoying it yeah, I don'treally appreciate so much when
people just talk about drinkwithout appreciating the taste.
If you're going to drink awhiskey, how did it taste?
Was it delicious?
How did it fill in the palate?

(41:29):
The glass of wine, how did itfeel like?
If you're just drinking to getdrunk, I mean, you're just
numbing yourself away, you'redisconnecting yourself from the
enjoyment.
You're not really doing it forenjoyment and actually a lot of
people aren't.
Because you see, even thingslike alcohol, alcohol is used to
numb pain.
So a lot of people who do drinka lot, they are inherently

(41:54):
numbing their pain away.
So that's why they're not eventalking about, they're not even
processing the fact that they're.
Oh, I like the taste and that'snot enough.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
I need a drink because it's like numbing the
pain, the internal pain ah, sothe actual, the impact in terms
of numbing the pain outweighsperhaps the taste of it.
And really, what, what'sregistering so much is?
With every drink it's like ah,I'm feeling less pain, I'm
feeling less disease, I'mfeeling less discomfort.
This is such a relief.
This is so nice exactly lessdiscomfort.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
If you notice a lot of people go and they drink and
it's easier to talk everyone,everyone's a bit more because
naturally they're living in alot of discomfort, they're
holding so many emotions and itallows them to not feel the pain
because it's numbed down andthen they can actually in some
cases be themselves, be thishappy, lively, jokey person For

(42:47):
the moment.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Yes, because for me what I get is actually again, I
think a lot of things get a badrap and I see there's medicine
and alcohol.
Very few people will touch into, like the benefits of alcohol.
I always think it's funny when,like the holistic scene had
their ceremonies for plantmedicines and everything but
alcohol is a plant medicine initself.
It can be very good in thatmomentary sorry, in that moment,
to lessen the pain, to helpsomebody cope.

(43:11):
But when it's overindulged andit comes in place of actually
processing those emotions, Ithink that's where the issues
really really stem up.
But it can actually be a reallyreally nice thing in terms of
connective and in relating toenjoy a drink together.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
That's a person who is in control and is a master of
alcohol, understands that youcan kind of master everything.
Well, there are some thingswhich have been put on the
planet which you don't want totry and master.
What comes to mind there Iwould say things like cocaine,

(43:50):
heroin, um, they're superdemonic and they're meant to be
for a reason.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, I was wondering whatexamples were going to come to
mind.
I had no idea.
I thought you were going tolike, say, master catching lions
, or something like that but no,I mean cocaine, for example, is
from the cocoa plant.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
All plants actually have, um, different characters.
That's why you get differenttastes and different spirits,
like, say, for example, from thedrinks.
Um, and each plant has theirown essence, so they'll give you
a different type of produce.
Uh, the cocoa plant, yes, willget you if you produce cocaine

(44:33):
from it.
Yes, it will get you very high.
And what it does is it opens upall your boundaries.
So that's why, with cocaine,you feel like having crazy sex,
you feel like drinking more.
You are the life of the party.
You can keep going at the partyhours and hours and hours,
because your boundaries are open.

(44:54):
It's like your free spirit,this childlike I just want to do
everything.
Spirit comes out.
But when those boundaries areopen, the demons can come,
because they can actually eat onyour fear, because you also
have been living in fear.

(45:14):
That's why you had to do thecocaine in the first place.
So then the demons can attachthemselves to your fear and eat
on your energy, and that's whenyou feel really bad on the come
down.
It's because the demons aresucking energy and they're
living on you, and then they'lljust keep getting you to do it

(45:36):
again and again, because eachtime you do it, you're bringing
out fear, this negative energy,which is what they eat on.
And demons aren't actually bad,okay, so I'm a pretty much a I'm
known as a master of thespiritual world, in a way like
especially the underworld, andwhat demons are here to do,

(45:58):
because they're a part of nature, is to destroy things that are
not using energy to its highestdegree.
So put things in your way sothat you realize, because at
some point, if your energy isbeing sucked and sucked and
sucked, you might go.
I don't feel very good.
I don't feel very good.
This is not the way.
There must be something better,but if you don't, it will

(46:22):
destroy you, as meant to be, andthen the energy can go back
into the planet for better use.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Okay.
So I remember hearing aninterview with some astronaut
actually who was asked aboutaliens and he said are there
aliens out there in space?
And he said oh, no, no, no,they're right here in front of
us, right now, they're allaround us and I think we I, I

(46:51):
recognize that we only see, Ithink it's 0.1 percent of what's
actually in our world, aroundus.
Our eyes are tuned to so little.
It's certainly less than 99,and I believe that when you hear
of like, let's say theseemotional states like fear, like

(47:12):
anxiety, and like happiness andmotivation and inspiration,
excitement, these are energiesin our sphere that we can let in
and foster or we can protectourselves from.
And I believe that the morelet's say good we do, the more
it, let's say, builds a forcefield, pushing those negative

(47:36):
elements, negative servingelements, out and welcoming in
those positive exactly, yeah,positive.
But there also is, inproportion, good value in each
of them and I actually see themas almost beings, I see them as
like in a like I, if I go intobeautiful raw nature, what I
mean by raw nature is not like aperfectly manicured park, which

(47:58):
could be, could considerperhaps, a torture garden, but
in actual fact like a wildforest.
I feel that there's reallybeautiful energy in that and I
sometimes find when I go intoother places that there's
perhaps the opposite of that andI don't believe it's.
You know, it's my instincts.
Feeling nothing.
I actually feel there's thoseenergies there that again, can
be outside of me but can also beinside of me and can have quite

(48:22):
a challenging impact, arecomplimenting yeah, that's
certainly true.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
So the more you are in a positive state, which is a
high vibrationary state, you'regoing to be able to access
higher vibrational beings andenergies that will continue to
do more good.
And if you're more in the lowervibrational state by right,
you're going to be able toaccess more low vibrational

(48:52):
beings, and they both createbalance.
So both are needed and you needsomething to fight against.
So if you understand that thereis a very dark path which you
can fall into the nothingness,you'll probably want to go into

(49:16):
the oneness.
You want to go up because yousee the other side.
You know, like you can't justbe oh, I want to do good, but
how would you know good if youdidn't reflect against what you
consider bad?

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Yeah, and it's at that moment that I'm looking at
you and I'm very curious.
When you said I'm a master ofthe underworld, what does that
mean to you?

Speaker 2 (49:38):
Well, it means that I understand everything that
happens in the dark, everythingthat happens in dark, the things
that people cannot see.
It still seen, it's still here.
It may be just felt and so youmight not be able to see spirits
, but they're here.
This is known as the island ofgods.

(49:58):
They are here.
A lot of people look up.
Well, the balinese people arealways doing ceremony because
there's lots of gods here andthey want to be recognized.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Yeah, all those energies.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
The Balinese people recognize all those energies.
You know they give respect toall those energies.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
So what I loved about the Balinese culture was that I
recognized that they honoredboth the good gods and the bad
gods.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
And that, for me, is an interesting one because,
let's say, the Western thinkingor the original thinking that I
was brought up with was that oneshould fear, we should fear the
devil, we should fear Satan,and, like you said there only a
moment ago, that we onlyrecognize good when it's in
contrast with bad.
And we I love this saying it'sfrom Vanilla Sky without the
sour, the sweet ain't as sweet.

(50:45):
And if we go back to the verystart of the conversation, I
said I only really know,understood what self-respect was
when I'd gone to the depths ofself-disrespect and my journey
of, let's say, into darkness hasbeen probably one of the most
fruitful journeys, um, that mostof us are encouraged to shy
away from.

(51:05):
But I think, without thatcontrast and without the
understanding that comes fromdelving deep into what could be
perceived as negative, well, itactually, in fact it almost has
a positive, and I'm yeah, I'mcurious when I share that with
you what comes up, yeah no,that's true.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
It's actually why, when things are too good and
people haven't delved into theirdarkness, you stop appreciating
what's good.
I actually think this is what'shappened with the current
Westernized society, which iskind of dominated by white
people.
You guys have had it too goodfor such a long period of time

(51:43):
and so, because you've had it sogood, you're so happy to
degenerate yourself, becauseyou've lost the appreciation of
what's good.
You forgot how hard yourancestors fought to dominate the
world.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
You forgot about it and uh, it's an interesting one
how hard our forefathers workedto give us the life that we have
.
I'm not just thinking withregards to white legacy, I'm
thinking with regards to a wholeglobal state.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
That like how hard our ancestors worked to put us
in the position that we areright now and people are like
now yeah, don't have kids andthey have everything you know
nice house, tv, swimming pool Imean not everybody, but you know
generally, you know people hey,I've gone into some of the
poorest spaces in the world andI've seen tvs in literally

(52:34):
cardboard houses, and yetthere's still a very nice tv
hooked up to netflix.
Yeah, I thought that wasfascinating then you have the
most sophisticated ones sayingthat they don't want to have
children.
That doesn't make sense.
They have access to such goodresources.
You know, and they lost theappreciation.
So that's why, also, now it'smostly going to be people from

(52:59):
the western world who are goingto be facing their darkness a
lot more, which is what I'mtrying to help with, because now
there's a lot more mentalproblems.
There's a lot more men who arethey're single and they'll tell
you to, you know, they'll tellyou on the, you know in

(53:21):
instagram.
Yeah, everything's fine, Idon't need any woman, I don't
need anything, I'm happy on myown, I'm just gonna keep working
my business and, you know, I'mjust gonna fuck all the bitches.
And but deep down, when they'reat home alone, they're going
through mental anguish.
Because everyone wants love.
It's already written into theprogram.
It's what nature wants us to be, to be.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
It's what nature wants us to do to be loved, to
do love can I ask you, becauseyou know, there's such a,
there's such a, a women'smovement in the world.
I was about to say right now,but I'm almost thinking five,
six, seven, eight years ago withme too and a real like, like,
fuck the patriarchy, let'srecalibrate.

(54:03):
And there's a lot of that inthat.
That's great, and there's a lotof that that I'm really curious
in terms of how it serves.
But why is it, in particular,that more and more people are
becoming conscious of the, ofthe issues around men, and what
actually are the issues of menin your eyes?

Speaker 2 (54:19):
well, men have had it too good, so they've become too
effeminate okay you know, I'dsay from the 50s and 60s, you
know, when it was a, theformation of the sexual
revolution, which is actuallyformed by men.
Actually it wasn't women, menformed this so they can have uh

(54:39):
easy access to sex and obviouslythen it was just easier for
every man to have access to somany women to have sex.
Get up, leave.
You know, for a man it wasgreat.
You know, before he had tocourt the girl, he had to meet
the parents, you know, convincethe dad to take her out, just to

(55:01):
take her out here, to sit me up, mine, you're going to bring
her home by 10 o'clock.
Yes, sir, you know and with thesexual, sexual revolution is
none of that.
Didn't have to meet the father,meet the girl on the bar.
If you like each other, we canjust go home and have sex.
I can say thank you very much,leave, and I could do this with

(55:23):
another girl.
So the men lost theirdiscipline by having too much
choice, by giving themselves toomuch choice, and then
eventually, the women don'ttrust that, you see, because it
doesn't make the men feel safe.
So they have to then applytheir own masculinity, which
they have from their fathers andtheir DNA, and they let that

(55:46):
override more of theirfemininity and they use their
masculinity to drive themselves.
And when they do that, they'rejust not going to like men,
because the men are not beingmen.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
So I'm hearing kind of two sides of it.
One, guys had it so good that,unfortunately speaking, they've
almost self-imploded.
Very almost true to the whatyou're sharing in terms of a
societal perspective at themoment, that certain societies
have too good and there's thisdownward spiral that's kicking
into effect.
It's always happened, you seebut with regards to men in
particular in this sphere, whatyou're sharing is that there's

(56:23):
almost like a double consequence, because not only are men going
through this downward spiraland identity crisis, but at the
same time, their counterparts,let's say in women, are leaning
into their more masculine sense,so they have an identity crisis
too and and hating on men aswell and just go.
Oh, I'll go do this, oh, I don'tneed you anymore.

(56:45):
And so a guy is losing hispurpose, losing his self-worth,
and doesn't necessarily knowwhat to do or where to turn to.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Yeah, that's pretty much it.
It's difficult to admit that.
No one wants to really admitthis.
It wants to be like, yeah, I'mfine, I'm good, because everyone
wants self-respect, they wantrespect from others, and so a
lot of people are dealing withthese issues alone.
This is what's going oninternally and obviously, as a
person who understands thedarkness, I can tap into
anyone's darkness, no matterwhere they are.

(57:18):
So I feel this, and it'ssomething that now it doesn't
need to change totally, becauseif people are supposed to go for
it, it's for a reason, and soeventually a lot of people will
re-appreciate, they'll reallyre-appreciate themselves, and

(57:41):
they're going to re-appreciateeach other.
So this turbulence for thisperiod of time is needed, can I?

Speaker 1 (57:47):
ask when you're sharing this period of time is
needed.
Can I ask when you're sharingthis period of time?
And you know, you also kind oftalked about like this real
shift where we're going frompaper to digital and like
there's this you talked aboutinvesting in crypto and a huge
amount of thought is aroundmoney, like crypto is the new
gold, and like when we'retalking shifts, like the world

(58:07):
is moving very fast and whereasif this was a couple of hundred
years ago, I'd be like, ah, thiswill take place over 100 years,
but it really seems likeactually we're having these
global shifts every couple ofyears now yeah, because the
world speeds up, the vibrationspeeding up, so time speeds up
yeah, time speeds up yeah, soit's.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
it's even more difficult for people to to
connect because there's so manymore things going on, but that's
why it's even more important toconnect with self and come back
to base, so that you're able todeal with the speed in a much
more better way.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
It's funny that, yeah , what I'm hearing from you, and
now when I go back to your kindof notes around priority and
self-care from you, and now whenI go back to your kind of notes
around priority and self-care,you're very purposely slowing
yourself down, indulging insimplicity and taking care of
yourself to navigate away fromthe challenges of the speeding
up world a lot of people arefighting against it.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
You see, the average man and woman in the west bills
getting more expensive lifegetting more expensive, less
money for good things, becausethey're trying to keep up with
the speed and so they'restressed out yeah and if they're
stressed out, they can't keepup with the speed, the tech and

(59:21):
the robot which doesn't have thesame amount of emotions.
It's impossible to keep up withit.
You're not supposed to keep up,but you're supposed to be above
it, and you can only be aboveit with self-love can I share a
line with you that I liked?

Speaker 1 (59:35):
recently chatting to a russian friend and he talked
about how ridiculous it is thatwomen were looking for parity
with men.
It's like in russia women wouldnever lower themselves to the
to the line of men, and I justthought, thought that was so it
is so true, so true, we're a bitmore rugged, we're a bit more
rough.
We're different speciesaltogether and this idea of like

(59:59):
this, wanting to be like others, like I, think it's so sad in
the development of any one manor woman, black man, white man,
any colored man to want to besomebody else and to shun away
your individuality, which islike your greatest gift to oh,
we've all done it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
I've done this.
I mean, part of my self-workjourney really is coming back to
my african roots and learningthese things, because we've been
I'd say a lot of us have beenshunning, because I think,
during the times when theEuropeans took over and they

(01:00:37):
took over and they rewrotehistory, they understood what
they had to do and they didunderstand that by taking away
someone's history or theiraccess to history, if they
didn't know themselves, it'seasier to, it's easier to
control them yeah, you know,this is the same in Ireland, by
the way it's the same everywhere.

(01:00:59):
Yeah, that's why the victorsshould rewrite history, but they
can't let the other people thatyou just defeated that, that
you got that, oh no, butremember, we defeated you, but
you guys are still great.
Did you know you've got allthese qualities in that quote?

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
no, yeah well, yeah, why that would be stupid, I do.
I do think it is an interestingone that actually admired the
victor when you go to mostnations, yeah, they have had
their history ripped away fromthem, their roots ripped away
from.
I don't think there's a countrythat you could say, oh no, they
haven't had this.
I don't think there's a peopleLike there's a lot of.
There's a lot of talk withregards to ancestral slavery,

(01:01:38):
let's say in a black lineage,but there are so many like Irish
, I think, were literally slavetrades.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Everyone's been a slave at some point in
everyone's lineage.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
But also as well, we are generations, let's say
beyond, some less than more.
But why does this want to alignwith divisionary thought?
Let's say, for example, saylike there's some that want to
align with a certain race,others that want to align with a
certain gender, others thatwant to align with a certain

(01:02:11):
faith, and with all of themthere's like, let's say, a
aligning with areas of hurt andprosecution of perhaps others
and it seems to be this I.
For others it's their experienceand good for them, but for me I
look at and I'm like this isnonsense.
This is one big distraction.

(01:02:31):
Like I, I love the saying themore I know, the more I realize
there is to know, and so themore I actually recognize how
silly I am, how naive I am andwhat that really does is.
It fires me up with curiosityfor the world.
I want to know as much as I can.
The very last thing I want todo is one categorize somebody to

(01:02:51):
block myself off from a levelof curiosity or openness and
learning with them.
But it seems like there's thisdivisionary trend and this like
blanket cutting off, like it'shilarious at the moment, if you
ask somebody, are they a trumpsupporter, they're like, yeah,
I'm a trump supporter.
Like, are you curious about?
Like kamala harris?
Like I don't want to knowanything about her, and likewise

(01:03:12):
vice versa.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
If you bring up covid , it is natural as well, to
align tribally with, with yourbeliefs.
Is it good?

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
I think it is a good thing because at least in your
current, in your nearestenvironment, you can have a
collection of community so theremust be a fine line here in
terms of like, yes, likenormative behaviors, community,
a sense of belonging, a sense oftogetherness, really, really
nice.
But when it starts coming atthe expense of individuality,

(01:03:42):
that's a kind of a line that I'mlike hey wait, I think we're
going to really cut offsomething here, because it's the
individuals, it's the rebels,it's the trailblazers, the ones
that do things differently, thatopen, give us opportunity to
learn and to grow, and thesocieties.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Um, this is the thing about light and dark and seeing
the ugly truth.
The rebels and the trailblazersneed people who are not so
enlightened, otherwise you haveno one to help, you see.
So this is the cycle and, uh,once you understand that, you

(01:04:20):
kind of have peace.
It's like you can still want tochange the world, but you're
never going to fully change theworld.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
There's always going to be work to do yeah so the
best thing you can do is keeptrying to change your
environment and help the peoplenear near to you and in your
community and actually, asyou're sharing this, I'm
remembering back to kind ofearlier parts of this
conversation where you weretalking about your inner peace,

(01:04:46):
away from the distraction of thegoings-on in the world.
You said look, I know what's atplay here, and like without
conformists, there aren'trebellious types.
Without like, in one area theworld might be descending, but
on the other it might beascending and and so, as you

(01:05:08):
come to experience life withthat that I'm hearing it's like
do you know what?
The best I can do is myself?
I can look after myself as bestas possible, and if people come
to me taking inspiration fromhow I'm looking after myself, I,
I can share what's working forme, but perhaps I shouldn't
shove it down the throat.
Perhaps I should share from aplace of like, self-experience

(01:05:28):
and inspiration, um, but I Ishouldn't look to influence, I
shouldn't look to influence okaythat's what we're doing.
That's what we're doing rightnow oh, I'd actually say this is
sharing it's sharing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
But if we're going to put this out there, it's to
influence others and they'regoing to go.
You know what?
These topics?
I've been thinking about thesethings in my head.
I was afraid to talk about it,but these two guys, because they
started talking about it, I cantalk about it that's influence.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
Is that influence or is that inspiration?

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
that's the same.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
It's the same shit oh , should we fight over the
definitions?

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
it's the same yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Well, what I like right is I like the idea of
sharing my personal experience.
I like the idea of to be fair,sharing some of the stuff that
works and some of the stuff thatdoesn't, because I think that's
the greatest gift you can giveto anyone.
Sharing is influence.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
Okay, if you give me a piece of bread and I'm hungry,
you've got a piece of bread andyou're sharing.
Yeah, you've influenced me.
You didn't say that, but youshowed me that you were willing
to share.
I was a good person.
You gave me a piece of bread.
I was hungry.
You gave me a piece of bread soI can become stronger.

(01:06:48):
You've influenced me.
You've inspired me andinfluenced me.
It's the same.
If I then go about my life andthen when I've got bread and I
see someone else starving, I'mgoing to be like well, you
remember that time Jamie brokeoff that piece of bread.

(01:07:09):
Yeah, he was a bigger man.
Okay, let me break off a pieceof bread and give it to the next
man.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
I suppose I have just this preference for the word
inspiration and discomfort forthe word inspiration, yeah, and
discomfort with the wordinfluence, but I love the
principle and the approach tolife in your values.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Why not be okay, yeah , you're sharing it, but be okay
that you're inspiring others,because don't think that
everybody maybe has as goodvalues as you, because you've
been working, so it's againappreciating your own self.
Don't think that everyone outthere is really appreciating
their own self.
Some people need to be inspired.

(01:07:51):
They need to be inspiredbecause they've been sold
degeneracy, even degeneracy.
Even degeneracy could be, say,for example, a man not talking,
a man not sharing, he doesn'tshare his thoughts, he keeps
himself to himself and hedoesn't podcast in his life.
Yeah, I've been thinking aboutthis.

(01:08:12):
Actually, I'm going to go andhave this conversation with my
best mate tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Yeah, that comes from your sharing.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
So, yeah, I always felt that I remember actually
having quite a conscious thoughtaround 18, 19, 20.
I was like, what is the what'sthe best thing I could do?
I went off.
I went off to Africa, worked intownships building homes.
I thought that was great, but Iwas like I can only do so much
in that regard and I recognizedthat I loved conversations, I

(01:08:47):
loved personal learning, I lovedexperience and I was like
probably the best thing you cando, jamie, is just be quite open
about your journey, Be openabout the shit that goes wrong
as well as the stuff that worksfor you, and let down your
boundary a little bit.
Let people in and you know, ofcourse you're going to get a bit
of flack and you're going toget a bit of like pushback on
that, but for some it might havethat freeing effect and if you

(01:09:09):
can share that value withanother, that's the greatest
gift you can give to helpsomebody feel free to consider
certain thoughts, differentthoughts, to have varying
conversations other than theobvious and to question their
norms and behaviors, off theback of perhaps a little bit of
openness on your part.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
That could have a lifelong domino effect and
positives.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
Yeah, of course it is .
Okay, and what you're saying isYou're inspiring to me and I
look at anyone who comes into mylife as inspiration.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
If I don't think they're inspiring me, I don't
want to know yeah, yeah, I'mbecoming more and more conscious
of those types that when I,when I'm with, I feel I need to
put my guard up, I feel I needto tighten my mouth, um and I
don't want to drag your valuesyeah, I don't want to be around
that.

(01:10:04):
But for those that aren'tfreeing to me, for those that
help me open up, for those thathelp me feel okay in my
stupidity and silliness, likeI'm amazed that if I open up
about something and one friendmight be like, oh jamie, you're
such a fucking idiot, andanother is like hilarious, god,
you've such an openness for lifeit's.

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
But you also need that friend as well to tell you
you're a fucking idiot sometimesyou know, honestly, I'm not too
sure.
I think it's good to have both.
I or you have a friend who cantell you both that's, that's a
really wealthy person if youever.
If you have friends like that,you can say, yeah, you're
fucking hilarious, but then alsothey can go.

(01:10:43):
You know what?
Now you're being a fuckingidiot beautiful, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
So when I was saying, it's because I was recognizing
that there are some trends, thatsome friends that would have
shown up in that vein always,and at a certain point it
becomes extinguishing, of course, whereas the ones that can be
like oh, I love your opennessfor life, but like we do need to
have a bit of a seriousconversation because you are
getting a bit out of line, thatcan be very formative and

(01:11:07):
constructive and yeah,absolutely I want that more uh,
open approach in my life, butthat guardedness in terms of the
company I keep is somethingthat is uh is, let's say,
reigning more and more true.
As I'm copying on to myself,let's say that we should be
protective of ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Yeah, for sure.
You know, that's one of thethings I realized living in
different places.
Because I would say in the UK,because I would say in the UK, I

(01:11:47):
mean a lot of people I know inthe UK they live very good lives
.
They actually do live reallygood lives, but they can't even
see it and when you speak tothem their vibration is so low
they're complaining so much andthey complain not even because
maybe their life is very good.
It's just because that whenthey speak into other people
that they're around, they haveto complain to fit in, because
if they say that everything toonice, people are gonna not like

(01:12:07):
them.
You know, if they just say,yeah, actually, I'm, uh, today
was a happy day, actually I'mhappy most days of the week,
sorry.
So there were people don't wantto hear that shit on a prior
podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
A lot came up about just the negative impacts of
london in particular and I'mcurious in your experience, how
did you find?
Did it serve you or did itnegatively impact?

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
I I had a great time growing up.
School was fantastic.
Um, I left the uk when I waslike 26.
Okay, and I moved to Spain.
The negative impact was I wasworking in the city and I saw a
lot of the guys.
They're making lots of moneyyeah, we're making quite good

(01:12:52):
money but their personal livesare terrible.
And my personal life is gettingterrible.
Drinking at lunchtime, big mealat lunchtime, you know, like a
big Sunday dinner at lunchtime.
Drinks after work, drinksFriday because it's the end of

(01:13:12):
the week, more drinks, and thendrinking again end of the week
with friends that you didn't seeall week.
And I was seeing these patternsand I was looking at the guys
that were in their 30s.
They looked rotten, making lotsof money, but they looked
rotten Personal life justfalling apart.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
Can I share a naive thought that's coming from not a
deep understanding, but, let'ssay, a superficial understanding
.
So, like, what level of likevalidity to this is kind of up
in the air, but I'm just curiousof it.
But what I find is that, um,that there is a strong emphasis

(01:13:55):
on keeping up appearances,especially so in britain, like
those that own the, thepresentation, and even with the
whole regal system, where peopleare vying for, let's say, royal
approval and and knighted andthat kind of thing.
That there's a constant likeput your best foot forward,
present yourself as well as youcould have a step of an upper
lip, don't, don't be too openwith what's really going on yeah

(01:14:21):
and I found I was.
I believe the, the divorce statsand the cheating stats in the
UK in particular are really,really, really toxic and and I
think there's, like I say,almost like a fostering of
dishonesty and, because it's sohard to be honest, it's so hard

(01:14:42):
to look at japan and the suiciderates and things like this yeah
yeah, honorable, honorable,honorable, honorable.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
All of this trauma and darkness sitting inside
because it's supposed to be sohonorable, honorable, honorable,
honorable.
Even honor.
You know, being honorable hasto be in balance with self.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
You have to be honorable to yourself rather
than honorable outside, toeverybody else first yeah, yeah,
whereas, yeah, that thatpresent yourself as best as we
can attitude doesn't well inthat kind of feeling that's
coming up for me.
It doesn't serve.

(01:15:23):
It actually has a lot of realnegatives.
And the more we can give peoplethe freedom to be themselves,
to open up, to share wherethey're at, the more therapeutic
things are and the more peoplecan actually get on with being
more true to themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
That's a nice ideal, but it would actually inflict a
lot of chaos.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
Yeah, the therapy hotlines will be inundated in a
short term or a long term.
Now I do, actually, as you said, that I do have to say, like no
one does pageantry, no one doesperformance like they do in the
uk and, to be fair, when Ithink of societal beauty and
even going back to your warriorarchetype, the image that was

(01:16:01):
coming up for me was the samurai.
So I was thinking like, okay,yeah, there's a balance.
I can't, can't, almost takethis sword and be like that's
not good.
It serves to a point until itdoesn't, it?

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
it does so it does serve to a point and, like I
said, it has to be in balance.
I don't think that.
I think that British you knowthat British mentality stiff
upper lip, and all that is notreally done by men anymore, you
see.
So that doesn't really work.
The men are just too fragile,in a way too fragile, and there

(01:16:39):
is a sacrifice to runningsociety in a way too fragile and
there is a sacrifice To torunning society.
Someone has to be able tomanage and Do the stick up for
it and that has to be the men tosome degree.
But it doesn't mean that themen are supposed to repress the
emotions.
They're just supposed to mastertheir own emotions and
understand who they are,understand their light and their

(01:16:59):
darkness, and then they canhave a level of peace.
And then, when they give thatstiff upper lift to everybody
else, everyone else looks atthat man and goes, uh, he's
mastered himself, and then thatgives everybody else peace that
they can master themselves.
So repression is not a goodthing.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
So give me an insight then.
How does that man who maintainsthat beautiful, stoic let's say
presentation, where they canliterally have a mountain fall
on them and still persevere andstride forward he falls in love
with?

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
himself first okay before.
No, he doesn't fall in love.
Sorry, I shouldn't say that.
He is in love with himselffirst.
That's really the, that's therole model, that's all.

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
It is the one who's in love with themselves the most
wins, because that's whateveryone else really wants deep
down so come to terms withwhatever issues are coming up
inside, face them, face yourdemons and bring yourself back
to a state of love yeah forwhatever you've done, for
whatever issues have unfolded,for whatever mistakes have been

(01:18:06):
made.
Make peace with them, make peacewith yourself and foster
greater love.
Yeah, even if in the infancyit's the simplest thing of right
, I'm going to nurture myselfwith healing foods.
What is oh for sure?
I behaviors, actions,conversations, connections, step
by step, little by little,replenish that fire of love

(01:18:29):
inside yourself yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
And obviously some people are going to hate you
because they wish they can do itI mean they could, but they're
still holding on to so muchtrauma and because they wish
they can do it I mean they could, but they're still holding on
to so much trauma and becausethey wish they can be, they hate
it.
So they'll hate these peopleand you even have to be
comfortable with that andunderstand it.
That's why they hate.

(01:18:52):
But if they hate, it's becausethey wish they could.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
And then you don't hate back because you understand
that they still want that I'mhaving an interesting journey
with hate at the moment, um interms of getting hate in some
regards and it all.
But nearly extinguished me to apoint, until I recognized like
close people, extended someclose people, some complete

(01:19:17):
strangers and uh they hate whatyou stand for, which is a good
thing actually not necessarilywhat I stand for, because that
would actually take a level oflike engaging with me to to to
get to that point, but actuallyjust instinctively can bring up
hate as and they can just see it, they can just feel the idea of
you and that brings up hate,and that derailed me for a

(01:19:42):
little while to be like, wow,you know, for whatever reason,
sometimes people will just seeme.
I just not like me but that'sokay and that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
But to get to that point of okayness it's quite a
journey yeah, but it'sunderstanding that they're
seeing something in you thatthey wish they had, or they're
seeing something in you theyabsolutely disdain, and that's
okay, because that means thatyou're kind of chipping away at

(01:20:14):
you being an individual and itmakes other people uncomfortable
because they wish that they canin some ways do the same, you
see, so it makes themuncomfortable.
I know that, for example, whenI started to delve more into my
african spirituality more, and alot of my friends were just

(01:20:35):
very stoic and just very they'relike oh, mike, well, you're not
this kind of guy.
You know, you went to privateschool and we just see you this
way.
We want this mike and they getafraid of seeing this other mike
, the mike that's from thejungle, the mike that
understands magic, the mac thatunderstands that they don't know

(01:20:55):
it, they get afraid and theydislike it.
But I understand why theydislike it because it's not the
person they know.
It's so far away from their ownpersonal values.
So they might hate on it alittle bit and that's okay.
I understand.
And actually to be um, to be amaster of nature, one has to

(01:21:16):
have understanding and not hate.
You have to be a master ofnature, one has to have
understanding and not hate.
You have to be above the hate,so you have to understand hate
and, in fact, there's going tobe some things that you may hate
yourself, things that you standagainst as a man.

(01:21:36):
Man must stand for some things,which means that you're going
to stand against some otherthings, and so a man must
clearly define what he loves andwhat he hates.
Yeah, no one likes a man.
It's just okay.
I'm okay, baby.
Oh, there's a girl gettingraped over there.
Okay, let's just take thecamera out and just film it and
post it on instagram no yeah,because we'd hate that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
We've got none, fuck that what I'm recognizing is
that the journey of hate for mewas there was, let's say, a
people-pleasing nature inside methat wanted to, wanted to,
let's say in sharing like this,wanted to speak in a way that
was infallible, and wanted toshow up in a world where
everybody liked oh my god.
And what I recognize now inreflection of that is that

(01:22:19):
actually has such an obviouseffect and such a normalizing
effect.
I recognize I'm like yeah, doyou know what?
If that's hated on, I get that.
Actually, jamie, you can dobetter.
There's a different type ofhate then.
That comes from going out intothe world and having a voice
which is magic to some ears andabsolutely dreadful to others.

(01:22:40):
Yeah, of course, which is magicto some ears and absolutely
dreadful to others, and that's acompletely different kind of
hate.
And what I recognise is there'ssome hate that I'm like ooh,
that's really constructive.
Actually, I want to take thatin and I want to use that to my
own benefit, to push me, to growme.
And then there's other hatethat is absolutely nothing to do
with me and perhaps actuallycredit to the definitiveness,
let's say, of a character that'sdeveloped, in which case some

(01:23:01):
hate is actually a realcompliment.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
It's always a compliment.
Yeah, it's always a complimentin some ways.

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
I'm conscious of timing, but I have to ask one
more question.
What is magic to you?

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
Magic is really nature.
It's all magic and it's still awonder.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
Even if you understand it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:21):
It's all a wonder the fact that you know you don't
see how the plants grow, butthere's always photosynthesis
happening.
That's a process of magic'shere.
There's a science happeningalways, even in the unseen.

(01:23:45):
It's like the air is alive.
A lot of people don't evenrealize this air is alive.
You know you breathe it in.
Why?
Because it keeps you alive.
So the air must be alive, right?
If you uh, breathe in air andyou're everything working, able
to think and speak and hear,well, the air is the essence of
that you know, let's look at thecontrast to that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
If you breathe in certain areas, you'll die.
So you can breathe in dead airand it'll have a deadening
effect.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
That's not really dead air.
That's something.
It's another chemical processdiseased.
Yeah, air mixed with some otherchemicals, which is not really
air, which is not reallyoriginal spirit I love.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
There's a certain part of me that really wanted
the world to be simple, and whenyou shared that, I remembered
God, jamie.
Remember when you realised thatwater wasn't just water, but
there are enormous contrastingqualities of water.
You drink the right waters,you'll prosper and grow.
You drink the right waters,you'll prosper and grow.
You drink the wrong waters,you'll suffer.
And I think similarly.
Speaking about air, I'm amazedthat there's sometimes God in a

(01:24:49):
wild forest, or if you're besidea waterfall or something.
The air just has thisenlivening effect.
But I had to ask that questionwith regards to magic.
But I had to ask that questionwith regards to magic because
it's I, for a long time, havetravelled with this feeling
inside me and this belief thatmagic comes to those that
believe in it most becausenature will respond to you.

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
If you see it, if you see that tree's alive, it will
respond to you.
So everything really canrespond to me.
I can understand the birds,bees, because I respond to it.
I look at it with awareness, asif it's alive just like me, and
so it becomes alive just likeme, and then we can share
information and I understandthat that tree probably has more

(01:25:38):
information than me.

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
It's probably older than me, actually whereas if you
put yourself above it and itbeneath you and be graded to the
point of nothingness, thinkingnothing of pushing it, pulling
its bark off, cutting it down,why would it ever share any of
that magic with you?
Exactly.
So, with respect comes so muchit comes so much.

Speaker 2 (01:26:02):
Yeah, the water thing that you um, you mentioned was
really interesting because thelast time I was in london in the
summer I was out for a jog andI didn't take my cars with me.
So I stopped by this pubdesperate for some water, and
the lady was so nice she okay,I'll give you a glass of water,
started drinking the water, spatit out and it was tap water and

(01:26:28):
the water tasted of so manychemicals because obviously it
was coming from the Thames andthey had to bleach the water so
much to make it clean.
But it's not clean.
No, you can taste the bleach inthe damn water.
I was like do people drink this?
so, yeah, all the time I'm likepeople are so unaware they're

(01:26:49):
just water is water and they'rejust drinking it and even though
I was still first says like no,I can't drink it.
In the end, the woman gave mesome bottled water.

Speaker 1 (01:26:58):
You know, bottled mineral water mike, thank you,
yeah, thank you for having achat together, for sharing a bit
of your world and, um, do youmind me asking if anybody wants
to connect in with you?
Uh, following this, what's thebest way?

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
on instagram now mike of wisdom.
So just we go, because I mightas well do the plug.
My main gig is helping men toattract partners, preferably
women, so they can actually havethe intention of having a

(01:27:35):
family eventually.
It's a self-love game and wehave to realize that the essence
of life is reproduction.
That's what we're doing.
We're reproducing now.
We're using elements of natureto reproduce.
In our businesses we arereproducing and without
reproduction we die, and the manwho reproduces the most wins.

(01:27:59):
So man has to reproduce in manydifferent areas and the most
important area is family andthat's where you stay in
alignment with nature.
So the information I get, as youcan understand, I can speak to
the tree.
The tree will tell mereproduction.
So I understand treereproduction and whoever doesn't
reproduce will naturally die.

(01:28:19):
Their DNA will die out becausethey didn't have enough
self-love, because that's out ofthe line with nature.
Every other plant, every animal, every bird being, they
reproduce.
So you have to understand, youhave to give respect to nature
and yourself, because every timeyou have that steak on your

(01:28:40):
plate, it's because ofreproduction.
The cows woke up one day.
They're like you know what Idon't fancy reproducing no steak
.
So the ones that go.
No, I don't want no kids.
Yeah, you're out of alignmentwith nature and nature will make
it harder for you.

Speaker 1 (01:29:02):
Yeah, okay, so if somebody is, yeah, you, you,
just you.
You were finishing that pointin terms of a plug and I had
asked to connect in.
You'd said instagram and youwere kind of giving a bit of an
insight into your work so youcan connect and find me on
through my instagram uh handle,which is mike of wisdom, mike of

(01:29:23):
wisdom.

Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
And uh, yeah, we're helping men change the world
lovely mike.

Speaker 1 (01:29:29):
Thank you so much.

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