February 18, 2025 • 46 mins
The episode dives deeply into the complexities of grief and loss, featuring insights from Joinne Chandler, author of "Life After Loss." Listeners are encouraged to embrace their emotions and understand that grieving is a personal and ongoing journey.
• Importance of asking for help during grief
• Unlearning the perception that grief has a timeline
• Navigating uncomfortable conversations about loss
• Exploring cultural reflections on grieving
• Honoring the journey of grief without rushing
• The significance of being a safe space for grief
• Understanding coping mechanisms in grief
• Biblical insights on navigating loss and healing
• Encouraging freedom in processing emotions
Joinne invites listeners to order her book "Life After Loss" found on Amazon or other platforms, emphasizing its utility in processing grief through a faith-based lens.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
yo, yo yo.
What's up everybody and welcomeonce again to the un-blurt
podcast.
I am your host, ruth abigailaka ra.
What's up, friends, it's yourgirl, jaquita yo, and this is
the podcast that is helping yougain the courage to change your
mind so that you can experiencemore freedom.
And we have a special guest inthe building Me and Jaquita's
(00:29):
very, very close Best friend,john, a Chandler in the building
.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Everybody, john, look is what I call it.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
We will basically be referring to her as nene from
here on out, just so you know.
Um, but uh, but yeah, we haveknown each other.
We've all known each other forabout 20 years.
We were talking about thatbefore we got on.
We don't like saying it morethan once, so that'll be it.
Oh, yep, no more.
That's it, um, but uh, thisamazing woman has written a book
, um, and it is called LifeAfter Loss, and, as you know
(01:06):
that, we are, in our series,talking about the kitchen table
and the things that we've had tounlearn from our kitchen table,
which means things that we hadto unlearn from growing up,
around our family, community orsociety, and so we actually are
going to talk about somethingthat is tough.
Right, that's hard for a lot ofpeople.
We want to talk about whatwe've unlearned from our kitchen
(01:27):
table around grief, loss anddeath.
And so, ja'nae, welcome to thepodcast, and we're so happy to
see you.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Thank you, thank you.
I'm a huge fan of the Unlearnedpodcast, so it's such an honor.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You don't have a choice.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
It's such an honor to be on here with my sister.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, man, we really are family y'all.
It's crazy.
We're family for real.
We really are like for real.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Um, if y'all would remember I think I spoke on a
previous podcast about thewonderful friend who let me
sleep on her couch for you oh,that that's good to know, sir.
That's so good.
Oh, listen, you know I'm goingto make her look real good.
Okay, I owe her.
I owe her a year of my lifebecause, uh, she provided for me
in the time of need, come on.
So forever grateful to Jhene.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
It was a mutual beneficial arrangement.
She prepared me for marriage.
It was all good.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I really did, I really did.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Oh, that's amazing.
I love it.
Ja'nae, why don't you start offby telling us a little bit
about who you are and whatbrought you to writing this book
?
Why'd you write the book?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yes, so I am Ja'Nae Chandler, author of Life After
Loss 30 Days of Hope for MomsGrieving After Miscarriage, and
I am a mom.
I have three earthly kids, oneheavenly child named Ohio.
I'm married to Emanuel Chandler.
(02:57):
He's amazing.
I love him so much.
And what prompted me to writethe book was I was going through
(03:21):
my own miscarriage journey, myown grief and healing journey,
and there were not a lot ofresources, there were not a ton
that were biblically based andthat really resonated with me,
definitely not a lot for Blackwomen.
And so on my drive, I think Iwas taking Isaiah to school, to
(03:43):
daycare, and I just heard Godsay life after loss, and he
started showing me differentwomen in the Bible who
experienced grief.
We don't hear like a ton aboutwomen in the Bible all the time.
They kind of play supportingactors, if you will, to main
(04:03):
characters many times in theBible.
And so God, just the Lord,began just showing me different
women in the Bible whoexperienced grief and loss.
There's Hannah, who is onethat's really known for
infertility, and Mary, themother of Jesus, who lost her
son, and Rahab, who experiencedloss.
(04:26):
She was shunned from society.
And it goes on and on.
And so I began to draw strengthand healing from their stories,
and I've captured those in LifeAfter Loss, along with my
personal reflections toscriptures and prayers.
It's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
That's awesome.
Um, I so this is going to bemore of a conversation.
So, just in case you want to,we're not going to interview
really Jhane like we're going totalk and like we're going to
all kind of share some thingswe've had to unlearn, um, around
grief, loss and death and so,um, yeah, so let's just.
I mean, I would love to hearyou know from you, janay, like
(05:06):
why don't you kick us off bywhat is something you've had,
what is something that you'veunlearned as a result of going
through that process?
And, yeah, and how does how hasit become more free?
Because I think the idea oflife is, when I think about that
, it's freedom is wrapped intothat.
Like you can be free after aloss that deeply, and so, like,
what's something you've had tounlearn in order to become more
(05:26):
free?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I think one of the things.
I've had to unlearn is notasking for help.
So anytime you go through griefand loss, I think there's a
tendency I'll speak for myselfto kind of implode or kind of
retreat and naturally I'm anintrovert anyway.
So to kind of retreat and to goto myself and process my
(05:57):
feelings and emotions by myself.
And I really had to unlearnthat.
I had a good friend of ours.
Her name is Erica called meevery day for like two weeks and
I was so annoyed initially byit.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Cause I'm like asking me to express my feelings.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
That's hilarious.
But she like purpose to.
She purposed to call me likemultiple times a day, at least
once a day, and check in and belike how are you feeling today,
what are you thinking about?
And I didn't like that exerciseand process, but it really did
(06:40):
help me to begin healing.
I learned that I'm more of aheal, someone that has delayed
grief, like where grief doesn'thit you right away.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And so.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
I again have the tendency to kind of bottle
things up inside, and so havingthat person to like constantly
check in and make me putemotions and feelings to what I
was experiencing really wasfreedom for me.
It helped me to kind of getthings off my chest and to not
(07:14):
carry that load by myself andgrieve alone.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, I think I'm a little like that.
I don't like to express myfeelings.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, I don't like it .
They're not my favorite thingto talk about.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
It's tough, like I don't.
I think, you know, I kind ofbroke that barrier, at least in
me and Ty's relationship not toolong ago, where he saw me cry
for the first time and we'vebeen together for four years and
so and he had never seen melike that but it's, I couldn't
contain it anymore, like it waslike what was happening on me, I
(07:51):
could not and I just and I justreleased it and it was, but it
was such a healing moment for usand he was like I appreciate
this so much, like I feel likethis was.
You know, I never want you tofeel like you can't break in
front of me and I was like youdon't want to, I don't want to
break in front of nobody.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Like no, for real.
Like I shared a room with RuthAbigail and, I think, for four
years, well for three.
And I don't know, I don't knowthat.
I feel like I may have heard asniffle once.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
You know like, yeah, I think she would intentionally
wait for me to leave the room ohfor sure, like there was no way
, but like that was, but it wasfreeing, because then it was
like I needed to be to get tothe breaking point in order to
believe that somebody couldhandle my breaking point.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Because I think that was, that was part of the
problem yeah, I think weoftentimes need a safe place to
land our emotions, yeah, and ourfeelings and our grief too,
like our grief has to have asafe place to land yeah, no
that's really good, I think, forme.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I always had.
I felt like I had to unlearnthe idea that grief was
something that you just get over.
You might feel it.
You know, like they all say atthe funeral, did you release?
As if, like, I'm going torelease one time and then I'm
going to be excellent from hereon out, because I released the
(09:20):
grief and I think that, like, Ihad to unlearn the idea that
grief is not something that youhave to walk through and process
through and that there won'talways be that, that that sense
of loss there.
Like you don't, you don't feelthe loss with something else.
You, you know your life may getbigger around the loss, but
(09:42):
it's still there.
May get bigger around the loss,but it's still there.
And so I think that I had to, Ihad to unlearn the idea that,
like, all right, I'm going tofeel this for a little bit and
then we're going to be just fine, right, and learning, learning
how to just really live with itand live in it.
And I think, I think grieving,the process of grieving is
(10:05):
grieving is really getting youto a place where you can be okay
with the loss.
Because I don't think that, andI think that I don't think we
give people enough time to notbe okay as well, absolutely yeah
, and we oftentimes don't knowwhat to do when they're not okay
.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Or to say, yeah, I remember I had a friend who lost
her father and she's like areally good friend, she's like a
sister to me, and I'll neverforget the sound I heard when
she told me it's just, it's souncomfortable to be on the
(10:44):
receiving end of that, like ifyou are the safe place where
someone trusts you enough toshare their grief or loss
journey with you, it naturallywe as humans want to kind of
rush it along, fill the spacewith sounds or words or, you
know, be like it's going to beokay.
(11:05):
And I just went to a funeral Adear friend of mine.
Her mom passed away suddenlyand at the funeral her cousins
kept saying it's going to beokay, it's going to be okay,
it's going to be okay, you'regoing to be okay, she's like no,
I'm not Stop saying that.
And I think that we, like youwere saying Jaquita want to rush
(11:28):
grief, think that grief has atime limit because it doesn't
(11:51):
Like.
Mary, the mother of Jesus,watched her son be crucified and
the first thing he did, jesusdid when he was on the cross,
was gave Mary a safe place toland her grief.
She said son, behold yourmother, mother, behold your son.
And she entrusted John to likewalk with her on her grief
(12:11):
journey, and so we have to beokay, like you both are saying,
not rushing people through theirhealing journey.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
You don't know when it's going to hit, you don't
know when your response is goingto.
You know it's not acontrollable thing and I like
what you said, janaye it'scyclical, like it's seasonal,
right?
I have a team member who losther mom to cancer and she, you
know, there was a time not toolong, like she was, like you
(12:47):
know, it's my mom's birthday.
We're gonna go to the gravesite.
I may or may not be there forstaff meeting, I don't know how
I'm gonna be cool, no problem,right?
I totally understand that thatkind of.
But understanding how to, how tomanage your um movements with
people in that moment, in thosemoments it is, can be
(13:09):
challenging because you don'talways know, you don't always
know what to do, and I thinkthat that is.
I think it's really importantto allow people the space, like
you said, I think one of yousaid I can't remember who was
but the space to, like you said,I think one of you said I can't
remember who it was but thespace to do this in the timing
that they need to do it Right,like and, and not not rush it or
(13:35):
or or, because ultimately we'reuncomfortable with it.
It's like you know, I don'tknow what to do with this, so
I'm going to push my discomfortonto you.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
And I don't like how it feels.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I don't like how it feels to me, and so it must not
feel good to you.
So let's both get out of this.
It's like no, no, no, no, no,no.
We have to allow other peopleto do what they do.
When they do it, and be there.
It's like that's really themost important thing is just to
be there, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Just sit there Like space and grace.
Give people space and grace toprocess it how they need to and
to not try to fix it.
Yeah, not try to fix it, whichis hard to do.
When you said that it can comeat any moment, that reminded me
I wrote about this in the book,but it was a few months after I
(14:22):
had a DNC procedure and the likehealth systems support group
called me for, like, perinatalloss to tell me that they had
support groups if I needed one.
I was on my way to a dentistappointment and it's humorous
(14:44):
how I write it but it wasn'thumorous at the time but they
caught me.
I was like turning the cornerinto the dentist's office and
they were like this isTri-Health calling from our
support group for infant loss.
If you're interested, how areyou doing?
They asked me how I was doing.
I was like I'm actually doingpretty well, so hung up the
(15:14):
phone, go into the dentist.
This is during COVID.
So they are making me likerinse my mouth out with hydrogen
peroxide, probably like 15minutes later after the call, 20
minutes later, I'm sitting inthe dentist chair and the lady
asked me to like swish my mouthout with peroxide.
So I don't give her COVID and Ido that, and then the tears
just start coming likeuncontrollably.
(15:35):
She's like I've never seensomeone have this reaction.
I was like she's like are youokay?
I was like no, I'm not okay, Ijust lost my baby.
And she's like I am so sorry.
And so the thing about infantloss is like your hormones in
(15:59):
your body still feels likeyou're pregnant and so
everything about thatappointment was horrible.
Like because your gums aresensitive when you're pregnant,
and so everything about thatappointment was horrible.
Like cause your gums aresensitive when you're pregnant,
all that kind of stuff.
But that one call, kind of inthe moment I was okay, but like
20 minutes later I wasn't, andso grief happens that way too.
(16:23):
Like you can totally not.
Someone may have asked yousomething a while ago, and then
it hits you like what they askedyou later, and you're like I
literally all I could do is letthe tears fall.
I literally couldn't stop them.
And I think that's what we haveto do to heal.
We have to go through theprocess.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, got to go through the process and I think,
like you said, let me, let me.
Let me, let me say this, let meask this question Uh, what, how
old were y'all when you firstwent to your first funeral?
I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I think you know I think about this a lot because I
actually have a pretty youngfamily and so growing up there
weren't a lot of funerals.
It wasn't until I hit maybe mylate teens that, like my great
aunts and uncles started passingand it was just kind of like a.
It was a very strangephenomenon by then because they
(17:18):
were happening so infrequentlythat like it really kind of
shook us.
And I will tell you, the firstfuneral that I really remembered
and had like a lot of feelingsabout was my great auntie.
She was like big mama,everybody's big mama.
Even she was my grandma,because my grandma is the second
youngest of nine kids and myauntie was the oldest.
She was my grandma's big mamaeven she was my grandma because
(17:38):
my grandma is the secondyoungest of nine kids and my
aunt reed was the oldest.
She was my grandma's big mamaalmost.
You know, like she was justeverybody's person.
And when she passed I think thatwas the first time that like a
funeral like broke me like and Iwas like, oh my gosh, like'm
never going to see her again.
And I remember being deeplymoved at that funeral just
(18:02):
hearing the stories people weretelling about her and stuff I
didn't know she was doing and Ialso left that funeral with a
charge, like I was, like I haveto.
Her life has to continue onthrough me in whatever ways,
like parts of her in me.
I have to make sure that I'mcarrying her story forward.
Um, but that's the.
(18:23):
That's the first one thatreally set with me and I think I
was in college when thathappened.
I think I was around 20.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, I think I was older too.
Fortunately I haven't had a tonof people in my family to pass
away and, like I've lostgrandparents, that's probably
the closest.
I've lost three grandparents,that's the closest.
(18:51):
That like has been super closeto me and it's all been, I feel
like in my adult years.
So I don't, I don't recallgoing to attend a funerals when
I was younger.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, that's what I find.
I asked that because you know Ifind that.
So we grew up in a church thatwas, I mean you, everybody
supported everything.
I mean our church community wasvery tight.
And your dad was a pastor, soI'm sure you yeah, well, yeah
but even before that, right Likethat, before he was a pastor,
(19:25):
just he was a minister orwhatever.
But the church that I grew upin, from, like my childhood,
before my teenage years, youknow it was a pretty
medium-sized church, 600, 700people members, whatever.
But the pastor was a verystrong leader and where he went
(19:47):
the people followed.
I say that to say I startedgoing to funerals probably
before I was 10.
But from people that I didn'teven really know that well,
because somebody passed,everybody went, it wasn't just
the family you went like and soand I we had some early deaths
(20:08):
in my family.
I had some cousins that hadsome physical disabilities that
passed early on, and so thosethings happened.
But I think one of the things Ihave had to unlearn is that,
because of my experience, a lotof people are not as comfortable
with death as I feel like Igrew up with and it's like just
(20:34):
because it's like, and also Igrew up in a church and you know
, on top of my parents that arehighly, very theologically and
doctrinally like sound.
That's a core, that was a corething of us growing up.
Death, from the way that Iinterpreted as a child was um,
(21:05):
you know, it wasn't that griefwasn't important, but that grief
it was natural.
Well, it was it, it, it wasnatural, but it was more so like
but the word of God remainstrue.
It was always that, it wasalways.
The word of God is above thegrief.
The word of God is, is, is, is,trumps the grief, right Um
death, we don't.
We don't.
We don't grieve as people whodon't know what's true, right
(21:26):
Like that, have no hope, right,thank you, cause you know my
script.
It was a little off, um, butthat was the way I thought about
death and it was just like okay, we're going to cry, kind of
what you said.
We're going to cry, we're goingto release, we're going to move
on Because we know the truthand this is just part of life,
right?
On one hand, I'm grateful forthat.
On the other hand, I realizedthat it stunted my, I think,
(21:52):
emotional growth and healtharound loss.
I think emotional growth andhealth around loss because I
don't think I learned how togrieve properly, because we were
very much a move forward kindof mentality, right, we're going
(22:18):
to keep moving, and so muchlike it was so ingrained in our
conversations early on, like myearly teenage years, my father,
when he would go, he wouldtravel a lot when he would go he
would send.
I remember it was before I lefthome, so it was pre-18 that he
sent me the insuranceinformation in case he was.
It was like, if somethinghappens, this is what you got to
do.
This is before I graduated highschool.
He still send a text with allthe information, right.
(22:39):
He has sent me and I'm theoldest, so he does this for me
the most.
He sent me the the way hewanted his funeral, right, the
people he wanted to speak, thesongs he wanted, sung the way he
wanted.
The bit.
I'm all of it.
I have it.
I could tell you what it is,but I've been hearing it for
years, right, and so it's likeit's just always been in front
(23:05):
of me, right, and again, on somelevel.
I'm grateful for that becauseit is an emotional preparation
for what is inevitable, but onthe other hand, I never want to
be callous to it.
You know what I'm saying.
Like, I feel like I built up alittle bit of a callousness.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, but also I realized that,hey, that's not normal.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
I wouldn't say that it is.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I mean you're prepared, we can call you, Be
like what are we supposed to doFor real, like that's, I mean,
but they did that, but I thinkit's, it is also um, I've also
had to learn how to sit withpeople in a way that was uh
honoring of what they needed togo through, even though it
wasn't something that I fullyunderstood, I love that, yeah,
(23:52):
yeah, I mean that's the positiveof it for sure yeah, yeah, yeah
.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I think that I don't know if this is cultural or if
this is just like a lot ofpeople's experience, but I think
that when you, I think that weare taught culturally, like
sometimes, as black womenespecially, we are taught to
just push through it, like yougot other things to worry about.
(24:18):
You got other things that youknow need your immediate
attention and grief cansometimes feel like a luxury
that we don't always have thetime and the energy to really
put into it's, I can sit hereand grieve and I think if you
look at at, there are examplesof people that you may know who
(24:41):
really got overtaken by theirgrief and it stopped them.
And it not only stopped them,it also stops the people that
they're attached to, right?
And I think that a lot of timeswe try to like not be, though,
we try to not get stuck in thosemoments, but you do have to
(25:02):
give yourself time to process.
I think that that's somethingthat I learned by watching
friends go through grief andgrieving moments.
I've had a few friends now thathave lost parents, which was
really, really, you know, it wasshocking to me, even as a
friend, but it immediately waslike, okay, how are we going to
(25:22):
surround this person or be therefor, be there for that person,
in a way, like I'm not going tobe able to take the place of
that person, but I, like Johnthey said, learning to be a safe
place can be an exploration,right, and I think one thing
that I have kind of like, liketitled myself as like my
(25:45):
friend's grief partner, is thatI'm going to be the person that
they can have the honestconversation with.
Like I'm going to ask thequestions that, like, other
people may not be asking becausethey're trying to tiptoe around
things, you know, but I feellike I have learned to have
really good one on oneconversations with people.
Now, the part that always getsme is that home visit.
(26:07):
You know, like after someonehas passed and everybody goes to
the house, that that's alwaysthe part that's like all right,
all right, I bought some chicken.
That's always the part that'slike all right, all right, I
bought some chicken.
You know I'm not.
You know I'm going to sit thereand I'm going to try to find
the moment and get in the rhythm.
But those moments change a lot.
But I think if you learn how tohave those like, your
(26:31):
friendship with that person hasnot changed.
You know, like you can still bethe same friend that you've
already learned to be to thatperson.
But a lot of times after, aftera loss, people switch up, you
know, and they they eitherbecome like the hey, I got five
scriptures for you right now.
I got them locked and loaded.
Okay, you know they, they tookon that.
(26:52):
They took off that old man andput on that new one.
All right, they got on thatwhite robe with a crown, you
know.
And so, like you know, they upthere when the streets are
growing, they wouldn't want tobe here.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
What do you mean?
What are we talking about rightnow?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
But I think that those things have their place
right.
Like I think hearing that in achurch setting is amazing, Like
it's uplifting the congregationand now I'm joining in the
uplift that everyone's feeling.
But when I'm in a room bymyself, I'm going to be sitting
there like what you mean, theyain't want to be here.
Like what you, what, what youmean, why would they leave?
(27:34):
And so I think a lot of timeswe don't always read the moment.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think we always undergrief very
well.
To your point, jaquita, I thinkthere's a balance, right, and
which is why I'm glad the Lordbegan showing me people in the
Bible who I could look to.
Because, to your point, jaquita, I think we're often taught the
(28:00):
church doesn't do a great jobabout teaching us how to handle
grief.
I think a lot of times we're,you know, for we look not at the
things which are seen, for thethings which are seen are
temporary, but the things whichare unseen are eternal.
Or, to your point, jaquita, nowthey're in heaven.
Shouldn't you be happy, likeI'm, like, yes, but I lost my
(28:24):
mom, I lost my child, I lost my,and you don't just grieve like
the physical loss, you grieveeverything connected to it.
You grieve If you're goingthrough divorce, you grieve the
life that you thought you weregoing to have with this person
or who you married or what kidsyou were going to have.
(28:45):
If you're grieving the loss of achild, like I thought about it
today, yesterday, y'all, I havea confession.
I just put away my Christmastrees yesterday and listen, but
don't judge.
And one of the things that I'vedone to grieve, journey our baby
(29:05):
in heaven is I get her aChristmas ornament every year
and so, like yesterday, I put itaway and I like thought about
you know the, how old she wouldbe she would be older than Ivy
is and like what kinds of thingswould she like?
And in those moments I think,culturally too I don't know if I
(29:28):
can say this or not I feel likewe all, we kind of run from
grief sometimes, like we don'thonor it the way it should be
honored.
And so I think that, to yourpoint, jaquita, like there's
those moments if you need toheal, heal, like, take the
moment and grieve.
You're not going to be any lessof a Christian because you
grieve no, that's it, yeah.
(29:49):
Or because you're disappointedin God, or you're upset with him
and you're wondering why hetook your mom, he took your
child, he took your spouse, yeah, like we're human with human
emotions, and he understands allof them, because he was human
too.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, and I think I think, taking the approach that
you can't afford to grieve, youwill find it more costly to hold
it than it is to allow God tohelp you work through it.
Right, and I think we,especially as black women just
because there's three Blackwomen on this call Sorry, I
(30:26):
thought I didn't say somethingFour, Well, there's four,
including Producer Joy, whowanted us to make sure she was
recognized in this conversationbut especially as Black women, I
think that we don't always giveourselves those moments and I
(30:48):
think that culturally, we'retold that we can't afford it.
But the suppressing what'scoming to mind is Anita Phillips
.
Right, If you haven't read orlistened to anything that Dr
Anita Phillips has written orproduced, please hop on that
train.
She is healing the nations.
(31:09):
Hop on that train.
I saw her at one of TD Jake'sleadership conferences and she
talked about how she teaches herclients to literally like tap
or like pat out their griefbecause it's being stored in
your body, Like all of thatemotional distress and trauma
(31:30):
and all of those things thatyou've gone through, that you
haven't processed through.
It gets stored in your body,Like there.
Your body is holding on to whatyou want to allow God to work
out with.
Body is holding on to what youwant to allow God to work out,
work out of you, and so that'swhy in our communities,
especially with some of our,with our men, with our women in
(31:51):
other communities, you, we areseeing cardiovascular issues
grow Like.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
I know we've heard high blood pressure, diabetes,
all of these things that aresuicide ideation.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Like I work on a college campus y'all, I cannot
tell you how much our babies aresuffering from all communities
and when I say all communities,I'm talking international, I'm
talking local, I'm talking rich,I'm talking poor, I'm talking
across all spectrums, Our youngpeople.
There is a struggle there,right, and it's building up on
(32:31):
the inside of us because we arenot properly teaching each other
and we are not properlysupporting each other through
grief and not just grief.
We're not properly supportingeach other through emotions and
not just grief.
We're not properly supportingeach other through emotions
period.
Because I think with grief, withgrief also comes anger, yeah,
right.
And we don't know how to helppeople process anger besides
(32:55):
telling them to shut it down,right, yeah.
And so I think that we, as acommunity as and not when I say
community I mean all of us Ithink that we have, think that
we have to learn to support eachother as we process through
things.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Yeah, go ahead.
No, you can go ahead, no you goahead.
Okay, so there's two thingsthat come to mind talking about
allowing people to grieve.
So I'm on this new show.
It's called Matlock and the newMatlock.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
The new one with Kathy Bates.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Kathy Bates is amazing in it, by the way, and
she is actually trying to workfor this law firm because she
lost her daughter to drugs.
Her daughter died due to drugsand her husband's like you
really don't have to do this,you really don't have to do this
.
She's trying to do like aninside job, like get them from
the inside out, because there'sknowledge that she has that this
(33:48):
company knew that these drugswere hurting people, but they
didn't take them off the market.
And so, long story short, shetells her husband.
She says this is my last timeto parent our daughter, let me
do this.
And so, even though it wasreally hard for her to go
through the process she's goingthrough, she wanted to parent
(34:11):
her child still, who's no longerwith her.
And so that's what we have todo with grief.
We have to hold it.
I can still parent my daughter,who's in heaven here, and I do
that by getting her an ornamentevery Christmas or by talking
about her with Isabella andIsaiah, and we have to give
(34:33):
people that outlet to do thatBecause, to your point, jaquita,
if we don't, it goes somewhere,the energy goes somewhere, and
a lot of people are walkingaround with unresolved grief and
it's manifesting in other areas.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
And I like to your point, queda, about young people
.
You know, there is thisperceived idea that I shouldn't
have to struggle and that life,the life that I'm looking for,
is without struggle, is withoutnegative emotions, and so we
don't do a good job, I think, ofyou know, in service to
(35:13):
protecting and I think, in amore of a toxic way than
anything else, the youngergeneration from things that
maybe we have experienced, wegot to allow.
I do think it's importantbecause some things are
inevitable, right, loss isinevitable, that you don't know
(35:34):
what, but at some point loss isgoing to hit you If you are not
properly prepared for that.
It does manifest itself in allthese things.
It does manifest itself in allthese things physically,
mentally, um, you know, and, andit looks, I mean the, the
levels of addiction and dope,dope to dopamine that we have
today.
I mean it's just unbelievable,right, um.
But a big part of that is like Idon't want to feel the negative
(35:57):
things.
I don't know how to handlenegative feelings because I've
never needed to, nobody's ever.
It's like there's been thislayer of protection against that
and we do a disservice togenerations coming after us by
trying to be overly protectiveof things that we think are
going to hurt them, but then youcan't prevent the things, some
(36:20):
things you can't prevent, and soI think it's so important that
we try to help younger people.
Sit in hard stuff and don't tryto help them, don't try to do
anything, Stay back, let themfeel it, and that's not cruel,
(36:44):
that's love, because if I don'tteach you how to do that, if I
try to help you at every turn,you're not going to be able to
handle things when nobody'sthere to help you, because there
are going to be moments wherenobody's there and you've got to
figure out, because there aregoing to be moments where
nobody's there and you've got tofigure out, how do I manage
this feeling that I didn't askfor and didn't expect without
(37:09):
destroying my life?
And we see a lot of youngpeople running to things that
are destroying them, even thoughit doesn't feel like
destruction right now.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
It feels like protection, but it's destruction
because we don't allow peopleto struggle, and it's coping too
.
I think we have to be carefulwhen we're going through our
grief about how we cope.
So I have to take it back tothe Bible.
Come on, because there's twothere's.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Don't laugh at me Y'all thought I would say you
ain't met, you ain't lying.
Okay, I just want to be clear.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
We'd be putting up with some stuff that I'd be
saying Jhene would not Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
So, as we're talking about grieving and coping and
how we manage and handle ourgrief, there's two the Lord
showed me this this morningthere's two women in the Bible
that are diametrically opposedto how they handle grief.
There's the woman at the welland there's the woman with the
issue of blood.
(38:10):
And so the woman at the well.
Jesus came to her.
She was grieving.
She was grieving and didn'tknow she was grieving.
She was grieving and didn'tknow she was grieving.
Jesus came to her, went theother way just to get to her
because she was grieving and didnot realize she was
experiencing loss.
(38:31):
She came to the well everysingle day to get filled.
Never got filled, was copingwith bad relationships with men
who didn't love her.
She had no self-worth and itwasn't until Jesus ministered to
her actual need that she wasable to no longer grieve,
(38:52):
because that's what she wasgrieving.
She was grieving rejection.
She was grieving being treatedas an outsider.
She was living with men who shewasn't married to and was
coping through her sexualrelationships to fill a void
that she didn't know she had.
But the woman with the issue ofblood knew she had a need.
(39:15):
She had been bleeding for 12years and had tried absolutely
everything, had spent her money,had visited all the doctors and
knew of Jesus, already believedin Him and went to Him and in
her touching the hem of Hisgarment, he met other needs.
She had emotional needs,insecurities that she had being
(39:38):
an outcast, that she had beingan outcast.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Like he met all the needs.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
And so grief leaves voids.
But we have to go back to ourcreator.
We have to go back to God,because he can minister like to
the void that grief left, but hecan also minister to everything
connected to that void as well.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
And I think that's important when we're coping,
that we're coping in healthyways and not unhealthy ways,
because it's easy to cope in anunhealthy way, I think it's
easier to cope in an unhealthyway For sure, because you don't
have to confront it.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I think what makes coping so difficult is that you
don't realize you're coping.
I think that we call copingother things.
We think that if our coping,the woman at the well was making
it work for her.
Right, she was all right, I'mgonna go to the well in the
middle of the day, you know I'mgonna, I'm gonna do what I gotta
do and I'm gonna make it workfor me, you know.
(40:37):
And so we put a badge of honorthat, like I, I can persevere, I
can go through hard things.
You know I can, I can, I can,you know, be in a tough
situation and still be okay.
And it's like, baby, you're notokay, yeah, You're not okay.
And so I think it takes somebodypointing out hey, do you know
(40:57):
that this ain't the life you'resupposed to have, Right that you
have built up a false structure?
of a life that is not your reallife.
Yeah, and it takes Jesus comingto you at a well and
introducing you, because thefirst thing he said to her was
give me a drink, Meaning like Iwant to build a rapport, a
(41:20):
relationship, a connection withyou.
And then it was I got someliving water.
You got to get introduced toanother option so that you will
leave the false identity thatyou've built or the false way of
living that you build up.
You have to be introduced tosomething better.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I think this is so important.
I want to like what the cause?
The thing that I'm hearingreally loudly from um, from what
you all have both said, jeanne,and specifically your examples,
is that, um, you know no matter, jesus will meet those who are
running to him or waiting forhim.
Right, um?
And either either way you're,you will.
(42:02):
Jesus will either run into youor you run into him, if you
allow it.
That's right, and um so I thinkthat those are great examples of
like two people who werestruggling and Jesus met them
from either end.
Like one did not know that sheneeded it, but when it came she
didn't reject it and she didn'tknow him.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
She didn't know him Like she didn't reject it and
she didn't know him.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
She didn't know him.
But she came to know him shecame to know him and then the
other one was looking like Ineed help.
I got and ran into him, and soI think, just knowing, just know
that if you are in a seasonwhere you may not know you're
(42:44):
grieving, you may not be able tocall it that, right that don't
reject what comes to you, toquestion whether or not this is
the life that you want, right,don't reject it.
And then, for those of you thatare running and searching, you
will find him.
Like, he's not, he's not hiding, um, you might have to get
(43:08):
through some crowds, but he'llfind him.
And so, uh, I just, I thinkthat's a great encouragement
because everybody, people indifferent places, and, uh,
absolutely jesus exists in allof that.
And so you see how we got realchurchy here.
That's because y'all not here.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
I had to share it because I I've been studying the
woman at the well, but not no,I'm sorry, I've been studying
the woman with the issue ofblood.
This morning I was readingabout the woman at the well and
I'm like she's grieving too,that's real no that's real.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
No, that's real, and that that's how I was.
I didn't know.
I was grieving and I wasgrieving.
That's, that's really good.
Um, any last words, it'sprobably not the right phrasing.
That was sad, that wasn't goodlisten'all.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Go buy the book, ja'nae, tell them how they can
get it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it'snot just about processing infant
loss.
Yeah, like, grief is present inall areas of our life and this
is a great devotional to helpyou to work through some of
those feelings, some of thosethoughts and some of those
coping mechanisms that we'vebeen building up.
So, ja'nae, tell the people howthey can get it?
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Yes, so you can order it on Amazon.
If you type in Life After Loss30 Days, you'll come right up,
right to it.
It's on Barnes, Noble, Walmartand Apple Books.
You can connect with me onInstagram at Life After Loss
Devo D-E-V-O or onlinelifeafterlossbookorg.
(44:45):
I would love to hear from youif you purchase the book and how
it's ministering to you.
It is a 30-day devotional andwe go through the whole grief
cycle.
So miscarriage is the lens,infant loss is the lens, but it
really does apply to any form ofloss that you may be
experiencing.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Thank you, and thank you for sharing, thank you for
being transparent and coming,and we just want to let anybody
know that whoever wants toinvite Jhane onto their podcast,
you feel free.
Um and uh, she'll come for avery small fee.
Uh, so there you go.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
That fee is going to go to Ruth Abigail.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Ruth Abigail getting 10% off her booking agent off
the top, no, but uh, no, I wasjust playing.
So, um, hey y'all, let's, uh,let's keep, um, let's keep
unlearning together so that wecan experience more freedom, and
we will see y'all next week,peace.
Thank you once again forlistening to the Unlearned
(45:54):
Podcast.
We would love to hear yourcomments and your feedback about
the episode.
Feel free to follow us onFacebook and Instagram and to
let us know what you think.
We're looking forward to thenext time when we are able to
unlearn together to move forwardtowards freedom.
See you then.
yo, yo yo.
What's up everybody and welcomeonce again to the un-blurt
podcast.
I am your host, ruth abigailaka ra.
What's up, friends, it's yourgirl, jaquita yo, and this is
the podcast that is helping yougain the courage to change your
mind so that you can experiencemore freedom.
And we have a special guest inthe building Me and Jaquita's
(00:29):
very, very close Best friend,john, a Chandler in the building
.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Everybody, john, look is what I call it.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
We will basically be referring to her as nene from
here on out, just so you know.
Um, but uh, but yeah, we haveknown each other.
We've all known each other forabout 20 years.
We were talking about thatbefore we got on.
We don't like saying it morethan once, so that'll be it.
Oh, yep, no more.
That's it, um, but uh, thisamazing woman has written a book
, um, and it is called LifeAfter Loss, and, as you know
(01:06):
that, we are, in our series,talking about the kitchen table
and the things that we've had tounlearn from our kitchen table,
which means things that we hadto unlearn from growing up,
around our family, community orsociety, and so we actually are
going to talk about somethingthat is tough.
Right, that's hard for a lot ofpeople.
We want to talk about whatwe've unlearned from our kitchen
(01:27):
table around grief, loss anddeath.
And so, ja'nae, welcome to thepodcast, and we're so happy to
see you.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Thank you, thank you.
I'm a huge fan of the Unlearnedpodcast, so it's such an honor.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You don't have a choice.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
It's such an honor to be on here with my sister.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, man, we really are family y'all.
It's crazy.
We're family for real.
We really are like for real.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Um, if y'all would remember I think I spoke on a
previous podcast about thewonderful friend who let me
sleep on her couch for you oh,that that's good to know, sir.
That's so good.
Oh, listen, you know I'm goingto make her look real good.
Okay, I owe her.
I owe her a year of my lifebecause, uh, she provided for me
in the time of need, come on.
So forever grateful to Jhene.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
It was a mutual beneficial arrangement.
She prepared me for marriage.
It was all good.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I really did, I really did.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Oh, that's amazing.
I love it.
Ja'nae, why don't you start offby telling us a little bit
about who you are and whatbrought you to writing this book
?
Why'd you write the book?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yes, so I am Ja'Nae Chandler, author of Life After
Loss 30 Days of Hope for MomsGrieving After Miscarriage, and
I am a mom.
I have three earthly kids, oneheavenly child named Ohio.
I'm married to Emanuel Chandler.
(02:57):
He's amazing.
I love him so much.
And what prompted me to writethe book was I was going through
(03:21):
my own miscarriage journey, myown grief and healing journey,
and there were not a lot ofresources, there were not a ton
that were biblically based andthat really resonated with me,
definitely not a lot for Blackwomen.
And so on my drive, I think Iwas taking Isaiah to school, to
(03:43):
daycare, and I just heard Godsay life after loss, and he
started showing me differentwomen in the Bible who
experienced grief.
We don't hear like a ton aboutwomen in the Bible all the time.
They kind of play supportingactors, if you will, to main
(04:03):
characters many times in theBible.
And so God, just the Lord,began just showing me different
women in the Bible whoexperienced grief and loss.
There's Hannah, who is onethat's really known for
infertility, and Mary, themother of Jesus, who lost her
son, and Rahab, who experiencedloss.
(04:26):
She was shunned from society.
And it goes on and on.
And so I began to draw strengthand healing from their stories,
and I've captured those in LifeAfter Loss, along with my
personal reflections toscriptures and prayers.
It's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
That's awesome.
Um, I so this is going to bemore of a conversation.
So, just in case you want to,we're not going to interview
really Jhane like we're going totalk and like we're going to
all kind of share some thingswe've had to unlearn, um, around
grief, loss and death and so,um, yeah, so let's just.
I mean, I would love to hearyou know from you, janay, like
(05:06):
why don't you kick us off bywhat is something you've had,
what is something that you'veunlearned as a result of going
through that process?
And, yeah, and how does how hasit become more free?
Because I think the idea oflife is, when I think about that
, it's freedom is wrapped intothat.
Like you can be free after aloss that deeply, and so, like,
what's something you've had tounlearn in order to become more
(05:26):
free?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I think one of the things.
I've had to unlearn is notasking for help.
So anytime you go through griefand loss, I think there's a
tendency I'll speak for myselfto kind of implode or kind of
retreat and naturally I'm anintrovert anyway.
So to kind of retreat and to goto myself and process my
(05:57):
feelings and emotions by myself.
And I really had to unlearnthat.
I had a good friend of ours.
Her name is Erica called meevery day for like two weeks and
I was so annoyed initially byit.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Cause I'm like asking me to express my feelings.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
That's hilarious.
But she like purpose to.
She purposed to call me likemultiple times a day, at least
once a day, and check in and belike how are you feeling today,
what are you thinking about?
And I didn't like that exerciseand process, but it really did
(06:40):
help me to begin healing.
I learned that I'm more of aheal, someone that has delayed
grief, like where grief doesn'thit you right away.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And so.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
I again have the tendency to kind of bottle
things up inside, and so havingthat person to like constantly
check in and make me putemotions and feelings to what I
was experiencing really wasfreedom for me.
It helped me to kind of getthings off my chest and to not
(07:14):
carry that load by myself andgrieve alone.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, I think I'm a little like that.
I don't like to express myfeelings.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, I don't like it .
They're not my favorite thingto talk about.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
It's tough, like I don't.
I think, you know, I kind ofbroke that barrier, at least in
me and Ty's relationship not toolong ago, where he saw me cry
for the first time and we'vebeen together for four years and
so and he had never seen melike that but it's, I couldn't
contain it anymore, like it waslike what was happening on me, I
(07:51):
could not and I just and I justreleased it and it was, but it
was such a healing moment for usand he was like I appreciate
this so much, like I feel likethis was.
You know, I never want you tofeel like you can't break in
front of me and I was like youdon't want to, I don't want to
break in front of nobody.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Like no, for real.
Like I shared a room with RuthAbigail and, I think, for four
years, well for three.
And I don't know, I don't knowthat.
I feel like I may have heard asniffle once.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
You know like, yeah, I think she would intentionally
wait for me to leave the room ohfor sure, like there was no way
, but like that was, but it wasfreeing, because then it was
like I needed to be to get tothe breaking point in order to
believe that somebody couldhandle my breaking point.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Because I think that was, that was part of the
problem yeah, I think weoftentimes need a safe place to
land our emotions, yeah, and ourfeelings and our grief too,
like our grief has to have asafe place to land yeah, no
that's really good, I think, forme.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I always had.
I felt like I had to unlearnthe idea that grief was
something that you just get over.
You might feel it.
You know, like they all say atthe funeral, did you release?
As if, like, I'm going torelease one time and then I'm
going to be excellent from hereon out, because I released the
(09:20):
grief and I think that, like, Ihad to unlearn the idea that
grief is not something that youhave to walk through and process
through and that there won'talways be that, that that sense
of loss there.
Like you don't, you don't feelthe loss with something else.
You, you know your life may getbigger around the loss, but
(09:42):
it's still there.
May get bigger around the loss,but it's still there.
And so I think that I had to, Ihad to unlearn the idea that,
like, all right, I'm going tofeel this for a little bit and
then we're going to be just fine, right, and learning, learning
how to just really live with itand live in it.
And I think, I think grieving,the process of grieving is
(10:05):
grieving is really getting youto a place where you can be okay
with the loss.
Because I don't think that, andI think that I don't think we
give people enough time to notbe okay as well, absolutely yeah
, and we oftentimes don't knowwhat to do when they're not okay
.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Or to say, yeah, I remember I had a friend who lost
her father and she's like areally good friend, she's like a
sister to me, and I'll neverforget the sound I heard when
she told me it's just, it's souncomfortable to be on the
(10:44):
receiving end of that, like ifyou are the safe place where
someone trusts you enough toshare their grief or loss
journey with you, it naturallywe as humans want to kind of
rush it along, fill the spacewith sounds or words or, you
know, be like it's going to beokay.
(11:05):
And I just went to a funeral Adear friend of mine.
Her mom passed away suddenlyand at the funeral her cousins
kept saying it's going to beokay, it's going to be okay,
it's going to be okay, you'regoing to be okay, she's like no,
I'm not Stop saying that.
And I think that we, like youwere saying Jaquita want to rush
(11:28):
grief, think that grief has atime limit because it doesn't
(11:51):
Like.
Mary, the mother of Jesus,watched her son be crucified and
the first thing he did, jesusdid when he was on the cross,
was gave Mary a safe place toland her grief.
She said son, behold yourmother, mother, behold your son.
And she entrusted John to likewalk with her on her grief
(12:11):
journey, and so we have to beokay, like you both are saying,
not rushing people through theirhealing journey.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
You don't know when it's going to hit, you don't
know when your response is goingto.
You know it's not acontrollable thing and I like
what you said, janaye it'scyclical, like it's seasonal,
right?
I have a team member who losther mom to cancer and she, you
know, there was a time not toolong, like she was, like you
(12:47):
know, it's my mom's birthday.
We're gonna go to the gravesite.
I may or may not be there forstaff meeting, I don't know how
I'm gonna be cool, no problem,right?
I totally understand that thatkind of.
But understanding how to, how tomanage your um movements with
people in that moment, in thosemoments it is, can be
(13:09):
challenging because you don'talways know, you don't always
know what to do, and I thinkthat that is.
I think it's really importantto allow people the space, like
you said, I think one of yousaid I can't remember who was
but the space to, like you said,I think one of you said I can't
remember who it was but thespace to do this in the timing
that they need to do it Right,like and, and not not rush it or
(13:35):
or or, because ultimately we'reuncomfortable with it.
It's like you know, I don'tknow what to do with this, so
I'm going to push my discomfortonto you.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
And I don't like how it feels.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I don't like how it feels to me, and so it must not
feel good to you.
So let's both get out of this.
It's like no, no, no, no, no,no.
We have to allow other peopleto do what they do.
When they do it, and be there.
It's like that's really themost important thing is just to
be there, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Just sit there Like space and grace.
Give people space and grace toprocess it how they need to and
to not try to fix it.
Yeah, not try to fix it, whichis hard to do.
When you said that it can comeat any moment, that reminded me
I wrote about this in the book,but it was a few months after I
(14:22):
had a DNC procedure and the likehealth systems support group
called me for, like, perinatalloss to tell me that they had
support groups if I needed one.
I was on my way to a dentistappointment and it's humorous
(14:44):
how I write it but it wasn'thumorous at the time but they
caught me.
I was like turning the cornerinto the dentist's office and
they were like this isTri-Health calling from our
support group for infant loss.
If you're interested, how areyou doing?
They asked me how I was doing.
I was like I'm actually doingpretty well, so hung up the
(15:14):
phone, go into the dentist.
This is during COVID.
So they are making me likerinse my mouth out with hydrogen
peroxide, probably like 15minutes later after the call, 20
minutes later, I'm sitting inthe dentist chair and the lady
asked me to like swish my mouthout with peroxide.
So I don't give her COVID and Ido that, and then the tears
just start coming likeuncontrollably.
(15:35):
She's like I've never seensomeone have this reaction.
I was like she's like are youokay?
I was like no, I'm not okay, Ijust lost my baby.
And she's like I am so sorry.
And so the thing about infantloss is like your hormones in
(15:59):
your body still feels likeyou're pregnant and so
everything about thatappointment was horrible.
Like because your gums aresensitive when you're pregnant,
and so everything about thatappointment was horrible.
Like cause your gums aresensitive when you're pregnant,
all that kind of stuff.
But that one call, kind of inthe moment I was okay, but like
20 minutes later I wasn't, andso grief happens that way too.
(16:23):
Like you can totally not.
Someone may have asked yousomething a while ago, and then
it hits you like what they askedyou later, and you're like I
literally all I could do is letthe tears fall.
I literally couldn't stop them.
And I think that's what we haveto do to heal.
We have to go through theprocess.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, got to go through the process and I think,
like you said, let me, let me.
Let me, let me say this, let meask this question Uh, what, how
old were y'all when you firstwent to your first funeral?
I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I think you know I think about this a lot because I
actually have a pretty youngfamily and so growing up there
weren't a lot of funerals.
It wasn't until I hit maybe mylate teens that, like my great
aunts and uncles started passingand it was just kind of like a.
It was a very strangephenomenon by then because they
(17:18):
were happening so infrequentlythat like it really kind of
shook us.
And I will tell you, the firstfuneral that I really remembered
and had like a lot of feelingsabout was my great auntie.
She was like big mama,everybody's big mama.
Even she was my grandma,because my grandma is the second
youngest of nine kids and myauntie was the oldest.
She was my grandma's big mamaeven she was my grandma because
(17:38):
my grandma is the secondyoungest of nine kids and my
aunt reed was the oldest.
She was my grandma's big mamaalmost.
You know, like she was justeverybody's person.
And when she passed I think thatwas the first time that like a
funeral like broke me like and Iwas like, oh my gosh, like'm
never going to see her again.
And I remember being deeplymoved at that funeral just
(18:02):
hearing the stories people weretelling about her and stuff I
didn't know she was doing and Ialso left that funeral with a
charge, like I was, like I haveto.
Her life has to continue onthrough me in whatever ways,
like parts of her in me.
I have to make sure that I'mcarrying her story forward.
Um, but that's the.
(18:23):
That's the first one thatreally set with me and I think I
was in college when thathappened.
I think I was around 20.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, I think I was older too.
Fortunately I haven't had a tonof people in my family to pass
away and, like I've lostgrandparents, that's probably
the closest.
I've lost three grandparents,that's the closest.
(18:51):
That like has been super closeto me and it's all been, I feel
like in my adult years.
So I don't, I don't recallgoing to attend a funerals when
I was younger.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, that's what I find.
I asked that because you know Ifind that.
So we grew up in a church thatwas, I mean you, everybody
supported everything.
I mean our church community wasvery tight.
And your dad was a pastor, soI'm sure you yeah, well, yeah
but even before that, right Likethat, before he was a pastor,
(19:25):
just he was a minister orwhatever.
But the church that I grew upin, from, like my childhood,
before my teenage years, youknow it was a pretty
medium-sized church, 600, 700people members, whatever.
But the pastor was a verystrong leader and where he went
(19:47):
the people followed.
I say that to say I startedgoing to funerals probably
before I was 10.
But from people that I didn'teven really know that well,
because somebody passed,everybody went, it wasn't just
the family you went like and soand I we had some early deaths
(20:08):
in my family.
I had some cousins that hadsome physical disabilities that
passed early on, and so thosethings happened.
But I think one of the things Ihave had to unlearn is that,
because of my experience, a lotof people are not as comfortable
with death as I feel like Igrew up with and it's like just
(20:34):
because it's like, and also Igrew up in a church and you know
, on top of my parents that arehighly, very theologically and
doctrinally like sound.
That's a core, that was a corething of us growing up.
Death, from the way that Iinterpreted as a child was um,
(21:05):
you know, it wasn't that griefwasn't important, but that grief
it was natural.
Well, it was it, it, it wasnatural, but it was more so like
but the word of God remainstrue.
It was always that, it wasalways.
The word of God is above thegrief.
The word of God is, is, is, is,trumps the grief, right Um
death, we don't.
We don't.
We don't grieve as people whodon't know what's true, right
(21:26):
Like that, have no hope, right,thank you, cause you know my
script.
It was a little off, um, butthat was the way I thought about
death and it was just like okay, we're going to cry, kind of
what you said.
We're going to cry, we're goingto release, we're going to move
on Because we know the truthand this is just part of life,
right?
On one hand, I'm grateful forthat.
On the other hand, I realizedthat it stunted my, I think,
(21:52):
emotional growth and healtharound loss.
I think emotional growth andhealth around loss because I
don't think I learned how togrieve properly, because we were
very much a move forward kindof mentality, right, we're going
(22:18):
to keep moving, and so muchlike it was so ingrained in our
conversations early on, like myearly teenage years, my father,
when he would go, he wouldtravel a lot when he would go he
would send.
I remember it was before I lefthome, so it was pre-18 that he
sent me the insuranceinformation in case he was.
It was like, if somethinghappens, this is what you got to
do.
This is before I graduated highschool.
He still send a text with allthe information, right.
(22:39):
He has sent me and I'm theoldest, so he does this for me
the most.
He sent me the the way hewanted his funeral, right, the
people he wanted to speak, thesongs he wanted, sung the way he
wanted.
The bit.
I'm all of it.
I have it.
I could tell you what it is,but I've been hearing it for
years, right, and so it's likeit's just always been in front
(23:05):
of me, right, and again, on somelevel.
I'm grateful for that becauseit is an emotional preparation
for what is inevitable, but onthe other hand, I never want to
be callous to it.
You know what I'm saying.
Like, I feel like I built up alittle bit of a callousness.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, but also I realized that,hey, that's not normal.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
I wouldn't say that it is.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I mean you're prepared, we can call you, Be
like what are we supposed to doFor real, like that's, I mean,
but they did that, but I thinkit's, it is also um, I've also
had to learn how to sit withpeople in a way that was uh
honoring of what they needed togo through, even though it
wasn't something that I fullyunderstood, I love that, yeah,
(23:52):
yeah, I mean that's the positiveof it for sure yeah, yeah, yeah
.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I think that I don't know if this is cultural or if
this is just like a lot ofpeople's experience, but I think
that when you, I think that weare taught culturally, like
sometimes, as black womenespecially, we are taught to
just push through it, like yougot other things to worry about.
(24:18):
You got other things that youknow need your immediate
attention and grief cansometimes feel like a luxury
that we don't always have thetime and the energy to really
put into it's, I can sit hereand grieve and I think if you
look at at, there are examplesof people that you may know who
(24:41):
really got overtaken by theirgrief and it stopped them.
And it not only stopped them,it also stops the people that
they're attached to, right?
And I think that a lot of timeswe try to like not be, though,
we try to not get stuck in thosemoments, but you do have to
(25:02):
give yourself time to process.
I think that that's somethingthat I learned by watching
friends go through grief andgrieving moments.
I've had a few friends now thathave lost parents, which was
really, really, you know, it wasshocking to me, even as a
friend, but it immediately waslike, okay, how are we going to
(25:22):
surround this person or be therefor, be there for that person,
in a way, like I'm not going tobe able to take the place of
that person, but I, like Johnthey said, learning to be a safe
place can be an exploration,right, and I think one thing
that I have kind of like, liketitled myself as like my
(25:45):
friend's grief partner, is thatI'm going to be the person that
they can have the honestconversation with.
Like I'm going to ask thequestions that, like, other
people may not be asking becausethey're trying to tiptoe around
things, you know, but I feellike I have learned to have
really good one on oneconversations with people.
Now, the part that always getsme is that home visit.
(26:07):
You know, like after someonehas passed and everybody goes to
the house, that that's alwaysthe part that's like all right,
all right, I bought some chicken.
That's always the part that'slike all right, all right, I
bought some chicken.
You know I'm not.
You know I'm going to sit thereand I'm going to try to find
the moment and get in the rhythm.
But those moments change a lot.
But I think if you learn how tohave those like, your
(26:31):
friendship with that person hasnot changed.
You know, like you can still bethe same friend that you've
already learned to be to thatperson.
But a lot of times after, aftera loss, people switch up, you
know, and they they eitherbecome like the hey, I got five
scriptures for you right now.
I got them locked and loaded.
Okay, you know they, they tookon that.
(26:52):
They took off that old man andput on that new one.
All right, they got on thatwhite robe with a crown, you
know.
And so, like you know, they upthere when the streets are
growing, they wouldn't want tobe here.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
What do you mean?
What are we talking about rightnow?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
But I think that those things have their place
right.
Like I think hearing that in achurch setting is amazing, Like
it's uplifting the congregationand now I'm joining in the
uplift that everyone's feeling.
But when I'm in a room bymyself, I'm going to be sitting
there like what you mean, theyain't want to be here.
Like what you, what, what youmean, why would they leave?
(27:34):
And so I think a lot of timeswe don't always read the moment.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think we always undergrief very
well.
To your point, jaquita, I thinkthere's a balance, right, and
which is why I'm glad the Lordbegan showing me people in the
Bible who I could look to.
Because, to your point, jaquita, I think we're often taught the
(28:00):
church doesn't do a great jobabout teaching us how to handle
grief.
I think a lot of times we're,you know, for we look not at the
things which are seen, for thethings which are seen are
temporary, but the things whichare unseen are eternal.
Or, to your point, jaquita, nowthey're in heaven.
Shouldn't you be happy, likeI'm, like, yes, but I lost my
(28:24):
mom, I lost my child, I lost my,and you don't just grieve like
the physical loss, you grieveeverything connected to it.
You grieve If you're goingthrough divorce, you grieve the
life that you thought you weregoing to have with this person
or who you married or what kidsyou were going to have.
(28:45):
If you're grieving the loss of achild, like I thought about it
today, yesterday, y'all, I havea confession.
I just put away my Christmastrees yesterday and listen, but
don't judge.
And one of the things that I'vedone to grieve, journey our baby
(29:05):
in heaven is I get her aChristmas ornament every year
and so, like yesterday, I put itaway and I like thought about
you know the, how old she wouldbe she would be older than Ivy
is and like what kinds of thingswould she like?
And in those moments I think,culturally too I don't know if I
(29:28):
can say this or not I feel likewe all, we kind of run from
grief sometimes, like we don'thonor it the way it should be
honored.
And so I think that, to yourpoint, jaquita, like there's
those moments if you need toheal, heal, like, take the
moment and grieve.
You're not going to be any lessof a Christian because you
grieve no, that's it, yeah.
(29:49):
Or because you're disappointedin God, or you're upset with him
and you're wondering why hetook your mom, he took your
child, he took your spouse, yeah, like we're human with human
emotions, and he understands allof them, because he was human
too.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, and I think I think, taking the approach that
you can't afford to grieve, youwill find it more costly to hold
it than it is to allow God tohelp you work through it.
Right, and I think we,especially as black women just
because there's three Blackwomen on this call Sorry, I
(30:26):
thought I didn't say somethingFour, Well, there's four,
including Producer Joy, whowanted us to make sure she was
recognized in this conversationbut especially as Black women, I
think that we don't always giveourselves those moments and I
(30:48):
think that culturally, we'retold that we can't afford it.
But the suppressing what'scoming to mind is Anita Phillips
.
Right, If you haven't read orlistened to anything that Dr
Anita Phillips has written orproduced, please hop on that
train.
She is healing the nations.
(31:09):
Hop on that train.
I saw her at one of TD Jake'sleadership conferences and she
talked about how she teaches herclients to literally like tap
or like pat out their griefbecause it's being stored in
your body, Like all of thatemotional distress and trauma
(31:30):
and all of those things thatyou've gone through, that you
haven't processed through.
It gets stored in your body,Like there.
Your body is holding on to whatyou want to allow God to work
out with.
Body is holding on to what youwant to allow God to work out,
work out of you, and so that'swhy in our communities,
especially with some of our,with our men, with our women in
(31:51):
other communities, you, we areseeing cardiovascular issues
grow Like.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
I know we've heard high blood pressure, diabetes,
all of these things that aresuicide ideation.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Like I work on a college campus y'all, I cannot
tell you how much our babies aresuffering from all communities
and when I say all communities,I'm talking international, I'm
talking local, I'm talking rich,I'm talking poor, I'm talking
across all spectrums, Our youngpeople.
There is a struggle there,right, and it's building up on
(32:31):
the inside of us because we arenot properly teaching each other
and we are not properlysupporting each other through
grief and not just grief.
We're not properly supportingeach other through emotions and
not just grief.
We're not properly supportingeach other through emotions
period.
Because I think with grief, withgrief also comes anger, yeah,
right.
And we don't know how to helppeople process anger besides
(32:55):
telling them to shut it down,right, yeah.
And so I think that we, as acommunity as and not when I say
community I mean all of us Ithink that we have, think that
we have to learn to support eachother as we process through
things.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Yeah, go ahead.
No, you can go ahead, no you goahead.
Okay, so there's two thingsthat come to mind talking about
allowing people to grieve.
So I'm on this new show.
It's called Matlock and the newMatlock.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
The new one with Kathy Bates.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Kathy Bates is amazing in it, by the way, and
she is actually trying to workfor this law firm because she
lost her daughter to drugs.
Her daughter died due to drugsand her husband's like you
really don't have to do this,you really don't have to do this
.
She's trying to do like aninside job, like get them from
the inside out, because there'sknowledge that she has that this
(33:48):
company knew that these drugswere hurting people, but they
didn't take them off the market.
And so, long story short, shetells her husband.
She says this is my last timeto parent our daughter, let me
do this.
And so, even though it wasreally hard for her to go
through the process she's goingthrough, she wanted to parent
(34:11):
her child still, who's no longerwith her.
And so that's what we have todo with grief.
We have to hold it.
I can still parent my daughter,who's in heaven here, and I do
that by getting her an ornamentevery Christmas or by talking
about her with Isabella andIsaiah, and we have to give
(34:33):
people that outlet to do thatBecause, to your point, jaquita,
if we don't, it goes somewhere,the energy goes somewhere, and
a lot of people are walkingaround with unresolved grief and
it's manifesting in other areas.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
And I like to your point, queda, about young people
.
You know, there is thisperceived idea that I shouldn't
have to struggle and that life,the life that I'm looking for,
is without struggle, is withoutnegative emotions, and so we
don't do a good job, I think, ofyou know, in service to
(35:13):
protecting and I think, in amore of a toxic way than
anything else, the youngergeneration from things that
maybe we have experienced, wegot to allow.
I do think it's importantbecause some things are
inevitable, right, loss isinevitable, that you don't know
(35:34):
what, but at some point loss isgoing to hit you If you are not
properly prepared for that.
It does manifest itself in allthese things.
It does manifest itself in allthese things physically,
mentally, um, you know, and, andit looks, I mean the, the
levels of addiction and dope,dope to dopamine that we have
today.
I mean it's just unbelievable,right, um.
But a big part of that is like Idon't want to feel the negative
(35:57):
things.
I don't know how to handlenegative feelings because I've
never needed to, nobody's ever.
It's like there's been thislayer of protection against that
and we do a disservice togenerations coming after us by
trying to be overly protectiveof things that we think are
going to hurt them, but then youcan't prevent the things, some
(36:20):
things you can't prevent, and soI think it's so important that
we try to help younger people.
Sit in hard stuff and don't tryto help them, don't try to do
anything, Stay back, let themfeel it, and that's not cruel,
(36:44):
that's love, because if I don'tteach you how to do that, if I
try to help you at every turn,you're not going to be able to
handle things when nobody'sthere to help you, because there
are going to be moments wherenobody's there and you've got to
figure out, because there aregoing to be moments where
nobody's there and you've got tofigure out, how do I manage
this feeling that I didn't askfor and didn't expect without
(37:09):
destroying my life?
And we see a lot of youngpeople running to things that
are destroying them, even thoughit doesn't feel like
destruction right now.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
It feels like protection, but it's destruction
because we don't allow peopleto struggle, and it's coping too
.
I think we have to be carefulwhen we're going through our
grief about how we cope.
So I have to take it back tothe Bible.
Come on, because there's twothere's.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Don't laugh at me Y'all thought I would say you
ain't met, you ain't lying.
Okay, I just want to be clear.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
We'd be putting up with some stuff that I'd be
saying Jhene would not Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
So, as we're talking about grieving and coping and
how we manage and handle ourgrief, there's two the Lord
showed me this this morningthere's two women in the Bible
that are diametrically opposedto how they handle grief.
There's the woman at the welland there's the woman with the
issue of blood.
(38:10):
And so the woman at the well.
Jesus came to her.
She was grieving.
She was grieving and didn'tknow she was grieving.
She was grieving and didn'tknow she was grieving.
Jesus came to her, went theother way just to get to her
because she was grieving and didnot realize she was
experiencing loss.
(38:31):
She came to the well everysingle day to get filled.
Never got filled, was copingwith bad relationships with men
who didn't love her.
She had no self-worth and itwasn't until Jesus ministered to
her actual need that she wasable to no longer grieve,
(38:52):
because that's what she wasgrieving.
She was grieving rejection.
She was grieving being treatedas an outsider.
She was living with men who shewasn't married to and was
coping through her sexualrelationships to fill a void
that she didn't know she had.
But the woman with the issue ofblood knew she had a need.
(39:15):
She had been bleeding for 12years and had tried absolutely
everything, had spent her money,had visited all the doctors and
knew of Jesus, already believedin Him and went to Him and in
her touching the hem of Hisgarment, he met other needs.
She had emotional needs,insecurities that she had being
(39:38):
an outcast, that she had beingan outcast.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Like he met all the needs.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
And so grief leaves voids.
But we have to go back to ourcreator.
We have to go back to God,because he can minister like to
the void that grief left, but hecan also minister to everything
connected to that void as well.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
And I think that's important when we're coping,
that we're coping in healthyways and not unhealthy ways,
because it's easy to cope in anunhealthy way, I think it's
easier to cope in an unhealthyway For sure, because you don't
have to confront it.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I think what makes coping so difficult is that you
don't realize you're coping.
I think that we call copingother things.
We think that if our coping,the woman at the well was making
it work for her.
Right, she was all right, I'mgonna go to the well in the
middle of the day, you know I'mgonna, I'm gonna do what I gotta
do and I'm gonna make it workfor me, you know.
(40:37):
And so we put a badge of honorthat, like I, I can persevere, I
can go through hard things.
You know I can, I can, I can,you know, be in a tough
situation and still be okay.
And it's like, baby, you're notokay, yeah, You're not okay.
And so I think it takes somebodypointing out hey, do you know
(40:57):
that this ain't the life you'resupposed to have, Right that you
have built up a false structure?
of a life that is not your reallife.
Yeah, and it takes Jesus comingto you at a well and
introducing you, because thefirst thing he said to her was
give me a drink, Meaning like Iwant to build a rapport, a
(41:20):
relationship, a connection withyou.
And then it was I got someliving water.
You got to get introduced toanother option so that you will
leave the false identity thatyou've built or the false way of
living that you build up.
You have to be introduced tosomething better.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I think this is so important.
I want to like what the cause?
The thing that I'm hearingreally loudly from um, from what
you all have both said, jeanne,and specifically your examples,
is that, um, you know no matter, jesus will meet those who are
running to him or waiting forhim.
Right, um?
And either either way you're,you will.
(42:02):
Jesus will either run into youor you run into him, if you
allow it.
That's right, and um so I thinkthat those are great examples of
like two people who werestruggling and Jesus met them
from either end.
Like one did not know that sheneeded it, but when it came she
didn't reject it and she didn'tknow him.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
She didn't know him Like she didn't reject it and
she didn't know him.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
She didn't know him.
But she came to know him shecame to know him and then the
other one was looking like Ineed help.
I got and ran into him, and soI think, just knowing, just know
that if you are in a seasonwhere you may not know you're
(42:44):
grieving, you may not be able tocall it that, right that don't
reject what comes to you, toquestion whether or not this is
the life that you want, right,don't reject it.
And then, for those of you thatare running and searching, you
will find him.
Like, he's not, he's not hiding, um, you might have to get
(43:08):
through some crowds, but he'llfind him.
And so, uh, I just, I thinkthat's a great encouragement
because everybody, people indifferent places, and, uh,
absolutely jesus exists in allof that.
And so you see how we got realchurchy here.
That's because y'all not here.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
I had to share it because I I've been studying the
woman at the well, but not no,I'm sorry, I've been studying
the woman with the issue ofblood.
This morning I was readingabout the woman at the well and
I'm like she's grieving too,that's real no that's real.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
No, that's real, and that that's how I was.
I didn't know.
I was grieving and I wasgrieving.
That's, that's really good.
Um, any last words, it'sprobably not the right phrasing.
That was sad, that wasn't goodlisten'all.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Go buy the book, ja'nae, tell them how they can
get it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it'snot just about processing infant
loss.
Yeah, like, grief is present inall areas of our life and this
is a great devotional to helpyou to work through some of
those feelings, some of thosethoughts and some of those
coping mechanisms that we'vebeen building up.
So, ja'nae, tell the people howthey can get it?
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Yes, so you can order it on Amazon.
If you type in Life After Loss30 Days, you'll come right up,
right to it.
It's on Barnes, Noble, Walmartand Apple Books.
You can connect with me onInstagram at Life After Loss
Devo D-E-V-O or onlinelifeafterlossbookorg.
(44:45):
I would love to hear from youif you purchase the book and how
it's ministering to you.
It is a 30-day devotional andwe go through the whole grief
cycle.
So miscarriage is the lens,infant loss is the lens, but it
really does apply to any form ofloss that you may be
experiencing.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Thank you, and thank you for sharing, thank you for
being transparent and coming,and we just want to let anybody
know that whoever wants toinvite Jhane onto their podcast,
you feel free.
Um and uh, she'll come for avery small fee.
Uh, so there you go.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
That fee is going to go to Ruth Abigail.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Ruth Abigail getting 10% off her booking agent off
the top, no, but uh, no, I wasjust playing.
So, um, hey y'all, let's, uh,let's keep, um, let's keep
unlearning together so that wecan experience more freedom, and
we will see y'all next week,peace.
Thank you once again forlistening to the Unlearned
(45:54):
Podcast.
We would love to hear yourcomments and your feedback about
the episode.
Feel free to follow us onFacebook and Instagram and to
let us know what you think.
We're looking forward to thenext time when we are able to
unlearn together to move forwardtowards freedom.
See you then.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com