Talks With Middle Adults : MBTI Assessment Broken Down, Personal Growth Through Assessments, Navigating Feelings and Decision-Making, Personality Types and Dichotomies Explained, Reflecting for Personal Transformation

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
what's up everybody?
Hello and welcome once again tothe unlearned podcast.
I am your host, ruth abigailaka r.
What's up, friends?
It's your girl, jaquita.
You can see we are excited tobe back I was kind of caught off
guard, because quita I saidsomething dumb and then she
responded, and then we startedthe recording.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
She's rude and I didn't see the countdown coming.
I was like, oh, let me fix myface because I don't want to go
off on this camera in front ofthese good folks, because they
came here to be empowered andrevived.
They didn't come to catch yourheat.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Whatever man, whatever Y'all, welcome to
season two.
What's up?
It's season two, man.
What's up?
Season two?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Listen, season one was fantastic.
We want to thank all of youguys for hanging out with us.
I'm still catching people likecatching me in the grocery
stores, catching me aroundcampus and they're like, hey, we
love the podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Isn't it weird when people are like I listened to
this, yeah, and I'm like oh forreal.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
You know what would help, though.
You guys comment like share,subscribe, and we would know,
but instead y'all sneak watchingand then catching me and I'm
like, oh for real, but no, butfor real.
We appreciate all of y'all somuch.
It's been amazing, just amazing, to see the impact and you know
who knew these littleconversations we've been having

(01:29):
for 20 years?
I know actually could helpsomebody who knew.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
I mean that's who knew you know what Quita does.
That it means is good.
So just watch out for the inthis season, because you know
she might do that a lot and thatyou want to tune in.
You want to tune in, I justmight.
Yeah, I just might, friends.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
so season two, I really believe I genuinely think
it's gonna be better thanseason one.
I agree.
I agree because we're betterman so much has changed?

Speaker 1 (01:55):
oh, that's true, the things have changed.
What's changed?
Talk about it.
What's going?

Speaker 2 (01:59):
man.
Well, I just feel like.
I mean we can talk about this.
I I'm in a completely differentseason of life.
I feel like since yeah, whenwas our last episode?

Speaker 1 (02:11):
That was a couple months ago, I think.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, and a lot just went down in these streets.
Friends Still single.
Just want to be clear.
Okay, I didn't want people tothink oh man, she's off the
market, dang, I was waiting'soff the market, dang, I was
waiting to shoot my shot.
Darn Nah, Go ahead, shoot yourshot, I'm just playing.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
It's just jokes, friends.
It's just jokes.
We don't want all the shots, doit.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Do it.
It's just jokes until it's not.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
No, but hey, friends, I got a new job.
Hey, come on.
New job, that's what's up.
Congratulations.
Got a new job, got a little bitof a raise hey, so yeah, but no
, but you know it's, it's.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
I really do feel like you know, the job is just the
indication of a season changingin my life.
You, you know, and I feel likeI'm I'm stepping into something
new and doing new things.
So a more administrative role,working with graduate students
or working with older students.
Students who are kind of at ahigher, at more, are more
advanced level of education.

(03:23):
So, yeah, I'm excited about it,though that's awesome, quita.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, um, what's up with you, rue?
I don't, I don't.
I look I don't really have thatmuch new going on.
I just got a lot going on.
You know.
I'm saying like I just it's,it's just a lot, which has been
a lot for a while.
Um, uh, so I did.
I did recently get to meet somecool people.
So, uh, angel street had a uh,what we call the legends

(03:48):
luncheon is the first eventwe've ever had as far as this
type of event.
So it's our annual fundraiser,and I got to meet some fun
people.
So I got to.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
You did talk about it .

Speaker 1 (03:58):
I did.
I got to meet Jasmine, guy froma different world, uh, also
legend.
Hold on.
She's from from um a couple ofdays, most of you probably know
her from a different worldlegend spike lee's.
Well, what is she from?
What's?
Why am I blanking?
What's the spike?

Speaker 2 (04:12):
oh, oh, oh um school days school days.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
yep, yeah, uh, and and so and she's, she's just uh,
she's an incredible person.
She's so cool and got to meetCarl Payne Most of you- all know
him Martin, martin, martin,martin.
Yeah, most of you know him fromMartin and he is so much fun,

(04:38):
like his table actually won aprize at the luncheon, which is
fun.
I got to meet Darren Henson.
Darren Henson is some of y'allmight know him from Stump the
Yard.
He was Grant in Stump the Yard.
He also choreographed I learnedthis like recently because
apparently this has become likea TikTok thing and he's the

(05:02):
choreographer he won.
Did he win a Grammy for this?
He won, uh uh, he choreographedbye, bye, bye in syncs.
Bye, bye, bye I.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
I didn't really yes, I didn't realize what so the?

Speaker 1 (05:14):
yeah, that's him, that's him, that's him.
That was a legendary move.
Okay, we all know that legend.
Uh, funny, uh, tyson.
Uh, uh, my kid is, uh, is he'sbeen singing, he's been singing.
Bye, bye bye.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Have you brought him into a boy?

Speaker 1 (05:29):
band era.
No, it wasn't me.
It's not me.
I don't know.
I think it's probably.
It's probably YouTube, I don'tknow whatever he's watching what
, but he is.
I've heard him singing itlately like I wanna see that far
out that it is hilarious.
I have laughed.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
It's like you know, it's like flare leg jeans they
always come back.
You know like.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Okay, so I'm getting Okay.
So producer Joy is telling usthat it was in Deadpool, Got it.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
I was unaware Gen Z call it the Deadpool dance.
Now, first of all, we don'tcare what Gen Z calls anything.
Y'all coming out renamingthings.
We already gave it a name.
We already gave it a name.
Just because y'all came in andyou're experiencing it for the
first time does not now meanthat you get to come in and
rename it.
We love you, gen z, but butstop it.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
They're redoing our dances, you know it's not, you
don't have to yes, the bye-byedance.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Everybody know it, everybody know it so anyway that
.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
So yeah, so we had an amazing time at the luncheon,
really impactful really.
It's a lot of it was.
You know it was full house.
Um, we really did have a goodtime.
The, the angel street girls got.
They sung, everybody.
It was heartwarming and youknow we had a.
We got.
We got really excited.
We got so excited we startedplanning for the next one.
Uh, as of yesterday, so okay,let's go yeah, we, we're, we're,

(06:59):
we're in this thing.
So we got, we got some.
We met some pretty cool people,okay.
So ernestineestine Shepard isthe um oldest living female
bodybuilder she's 89 years old,wow.
She started bodybuilding at 50.
She, uh, she was on a SteveHarvey show and she beat Steve
and pushups.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
It's a big she not to be played with.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Not at all.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Sweet, not at all sweetest woman in the world.
She is so sweet.
Um, okay, and then the last oneI'll mention.
Imagine having a strong grandmalike grandma.
You need me to get grandma, youwant me to get that box?

Speaker 1 (07:33):
nah, baby, I don't need you to do nothing sit down,
don't worry, and another one,and another one.
Give me another one, yeah, uhand uh.
Angela winbush I don't know ifany of you know who that is, but
she is a legendary vocalist.
Um, she actually is on the oneof the 25 people, I think, in

(07:55):
the whistle register, so thatmeans that her voice can like
mariah carey like mariah careyright or mini mini ripperton yes
and so, man, she was so cool,excuse me, she did a video with
some of the girls sung.
They sung her song, angel, whichis very appropriate because
we're called angel street and um, and she was so fun.

(08:15):
She was like giving out, shewould.
She's giving out her number topeople, she's taking selfies,
texting people to selfie.
She texts me.
You know her selfie and youknow it's just like what.
For one of my, one of theguests at the at the luncheon.
She actually, um, her sister islike I don't remember.
She's like her favorite singer,and so she told her that and
she ended up she said herbirthday was like in a week and

(08:38):
she ended up singing happybirthday, a birthday song, and
she recorded it and she get tosend it to her sister.
Isn't that sweet?
Oh, that's so sweet she is.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
I really like her man .
She's really cool, like I was,like yo.
I want them to come back like Ijust want.
I love it.
I love it when celebrities arelike good people you know
exactly and I feel like anybodywho's coming to an event like
that like they are, like justgenuinely good people and it's.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
it was cool because I don't think a lot of people
expected them to be aspersonable as engaging.
They weren't off to the side ina green room and coming, they
were just amongst people andthat was the really beautiful
part of it.
They were, you know, I thinkJasmine Guy was giving somebody

(09:24):
dating tips at her table.
You know, it was just like itwas cool man.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
It's like I wish I had been able to ask Jasmine how
do I find my Dwayne Wayne?
Oh God, dwayne, uh, low keyfacts, low key facts.
Jaquita had a huge crush onDwayne Wayne.
I was looking for my.
I don't know, I like him alittle nerdy.
I was looking for my.
I was looking for my DwayneWayne, okay, except I wasn't.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
I was not at all Whitley Like, not even a little
bit, but with um, with Jasmineguy, nothing like Whitley.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Oh no, she has said that repeatedly.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
She's like not at all , she's, no, it's, but which is
which speaks to her talent.
Like I, it's so fascinating howpeople can just turn into other
people like yeah, just you justflip and it's like yo, you
thought there were this person,and then they're not see what I
did there.
You see what I did, you seewhere I'm going, you see what's
happening.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
You do not catching it.
All right, all right, all right, all right, all right.
Today, friends, we are talkingabout personality.
All right, pretty good, yeah,since Ruth want to do
transitions now she thought shewas smooth too.
Y'all she was like no, you'renot smooth if you have to say

(10:41):
see what I did, you see, did yousee that's not smooth?
Um, but listen, we really seewhat I did, you see, did you see
that's not smooth.
But listen, we really want totalk about personalities.
Personalities is one of myabsolute favorite things to talk
about.
When I first found the testwe're talking about today, the
Myers-Briggs type indicator, Ireally aggravated my friends
very much, very much.

(11:02):
Very much Very much about allthings, personality.
I was really deep in there forlike at least five years.
It was a consistent theme ofanything I had to say about
anything.
Um, because it was.
It was such a a groundbreakingexperience for me to learn that

(11:22):
I was okay, like that, who I was, had meaning and had
significance, and that, like Iwasn't the first person ever to
be like this and that you know,like at the end of all of the
tests, they tell you the famouspeople who have your personality
type and I was like see whaty'all don't realize.
See is that like I got.

(11:44):
I think I had like a RobinWilliams, you know, and I was
like everybody love RobinWilliams.
You know what I'm saying.
You love him, you love me, youknow so, wow, really big leap.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
That was a big leap.
Okay, you leapt.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Too much, too much, too much.
But I'm saying, though, it gaveme like a OK like, because I
think and we'll talk about thisa little bit like what it means
to fit in a mold versus reallycoming into yourself.
But if you don't know what themold is, have you ever seen
where people are putting on likeFacebook?

(12:18):
I see this a lot People areputting like pictures of cookie
molds and they're like what isthis?
Because if you're looking at acookie mold, you really can't
tell that this is supposed to be.
You know, like, of course, weknow the gingerbread man, and if
you do a heart, but if you doSanta going down the chimney and
you're just looking at theshape of it, nobody knows what
that is.
But if you don't have the mold,you don't have the shape of it,

(12:42):
and so I feel like personalitygives us the shape of who we are
, and then we can begin to fillin the mold.
What's supposed to be in there?

Speaker 1 (12:49):
So, so this season, y'all, what we're going to do is
we're going to break downdifferent personality
assessments because, you know,we're, we're, we're here,
unlearning, right.
I mean, at the end of the day,this is what this, this with
this whole podcast, is about isunlearning things, and I think
we've become like and some in agood way and some in a not so

(13:11):
good way just very obsessed withourselves, right, we're
obsessed with finding who we are, our identities, answering
questions about ourselves,somebody telling me, you know,
tell him getting moreinformation about how I am,
naturally, and all that stuff,which is really a beautiful
thing.
I think it's important.
You need to be self-aware, weneed to know ourselves.
And uh, we can't use thosethings as an excuse to just stay

(13:34):
stuck in who we are, um, and sowe have to like that unlearning
process.
Get anything you, anythingyou're trying to unlearn, first
begins with unlearning yourself.
And so you have to unlearn partsof yourself so that then you
can create a path of growth foryou and to become different in

(13:56):
the next season and thereforebecome more free.
And so that's what we want toreally like.
Lean into this season istalking about all these
different assessments.
Some you may have heard of,some maybe you haven't, and
we're going to take them.
So we're going to have ourresults, we're going to talk a
little bit about them and thenjust kind of share.
You know from a personalperspective and then like from a

(14:17):
global perspective, how thisthing looks when it when you
evolve more into who you are andunderstand how to grow outside
of what your natural preferencemight be Like.
I've always I want to take usinto a tangent, but it's just

(14:38):
it's coming to my mind.
This is always like stuck withme, just from a biblical
perspective, this idea of was it2 Corinthians 5?
Nope, 12.
Oh man, 2 Corinthians 5, 17.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
I think it's 12.
Are you talking about the gifts?

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Nope, I'm talking about the new preacher.
It's five.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Five and seven maybe.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Nope, that's not it.
That's not good y'all actually.
I mean, it's fine for me.
I'm not the preacher.
Quita should know this.
I'm just kidding.
Um is second corinthians.
The offense on your face, theuh, don't be outing me.
Yeah, so so it's in chapterfive.
But anyway, um, it says if any,if any, if any person be in

(15:29):
Christ, he's a new creature.
The old things have passed away, the new have come right.
A lot of you may have heardthat.
If you haven't, that's what itis.
We're going to get the versehere in a second, but that's
always stuck with me becauseI've all that's that the tension
of how my natural preferencesare versus how I am when I
become a new creature is like Idon't.

(15:51):
There's a tension there and itshould be Like.
That's not a bad, that is agood thing, it's good to
understand.
Second Corinthians 5.17,.
We were close.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
I was close.
Yeah, I knew it was a seven.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, very good.
So we, I think, and so I knowfor those of you that are Jesus
followers, I think this is agood, um kind of thing to
remember is like I was born acertain way.
We were all born certain way.
We have certain traits we have,and it's a gift God had put
that in us.
And when I decide to allowsomething else to lead my life

(16:26):
not just my, my naturalpreferences don't lead me
anymore.
Um, jesus leads me.
Therefore, I'm in a different, Ihave to move a different way
and it gets my natural way, thenit it puts me in a I have to
make some decisions to say whichone do I give more attention to
?
Do I give more attention to?
Like my own preference?

Speaker 2 (16:47):
or do I give an?

Speaker 1 (16:48):
attention to a preference on a different path,
that that's going to cause sometension, right.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
And so as that.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
From that perspective , that has also been a reason
like my motivation forunderstanding this.
And then like, where do I needto really understanding this?
And then like, where do I needto really, where I need to make
some adjustments?
Right, Like, because I don't,I'm I'm choosing a different
path, so I'm choosing to, I'mchoosing to step out of my own

(17:19):
preferences towards somethinghigher and that's going to
stretch me.
So, like, what do?

Speaker 2 (17:21):
I need to unlearn about me.
Yeah, not to keep and stay inthe preaching vein, but it's
just been something that's beenheavy on me like the last week
or so is 1 Corinthians I guesswe're just in Corinthians today.
1 Corinthians 13, I believeit's verse 11, says when I was a
child, I spake as a child, Iunderstood as a child, I thought

(17:42):
as a child, but when I became aman I put away childish things.
And I think a lot of times werelegate child and man being to
age.
But there are things in yourlife that you are just
underdeveloped in, that youhaven't had that, you haven't
encountered the need to have toelevate, mature, shift and move

(18:06):
into the next season of yourlife in that area.
And you have to look at how didI speak, how did I understand
and how did I think in that areaof my life so that I can shift
into this next season.
And, like I was telling youguys, I just recently got a new
job and it is causing me to haveto speak, to understand and to

(18:27):
think differently about myself.
And I think that when we'retalking about things like
personality and all of thesedifferent assessments that we're
going to be talking about it isthe information is only the
beginning piece of it.
Right, getting the informationof who you are and how you
operate, and like getting, likethe revelation Right.
Revelation is great, but if youdon't apply it, if you don't,

(18:51):
if you don't make thatrevelation active in the way
that you are engaging yourself,the way that you're engaging
relationships, the way thatyou're engaging work, the way
that you're engaging ministry,then you're not actually getting
the benefit of the information.
You just have knowledge.
And if we don't take knowledgeand put it into performance, we

(19:12):
don't see the production of whatwe're, of what we're trying to
do.
And so I would.
I think a lot of what we'regoing to talk about is how the
knowledge of these assessmentshave played out in our lives and
how we've had to kind of shiftand redirect and unlearn some
things based off of what welearned and unlearn some things

(19:36):
about what we have learned aswell.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yes, correct, correct , correct, Okay.
So today we are, we're digginginto the Myers-Briggs.
And so, like Queda said, didyou you got like a certification
in this?
Yes, like a Myers-Briggs.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
No, I, but I did teach freshman seminar classes
that I taught for seven years.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
And this was like you deserve a certification then.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
There's no certification.
I mean, there is a Myers-Briggscertification certification.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
I do not have it, but I have taught it for many years
so she's, she's, she's anexpert and so, um, I, we, we
want to talk about the.
So can you, can you kind ofdescribe this assessment?
You know, briefly, just sopeople, a lot of you probably
heard about it, but you may not,you may not have.
So just describe it a littlebit, what it's talking about and

(20:27):
all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
All right, I'm gonna give you a very brief overview.
Ok, so Myers-Briggs is a, anassessment.
It was developed by two sisterin laws who kind of took
together some psychology basedunderstandings of what identity
is and they broke it down intofour sections.
Right, the first sectionintrovert versus extrovert.

(20:51):
Right, and it's not aboutwhether or not you like being
around people.
It's about how you get yourenergy.
Where you get it from.
Do you get your energy frombeing in social settings?
Some of you like being insocial settings, but it is
actually depleting your energy.
Right?
You're spending energy insocial settings.
Some of you like being insocial settings, but it is
actually depleting your energy.
Right, you're spending energyin social settings, whereas
extroverts are gaining energy insocial settings.

(21:12):
Right?
Introverts are really kind ofreally mind-based, memory-based,
observant.
Right, really trying tounderstand what's going on in
their mind, whereas extrovertsare really interested in.
How am I engaging with myoutside world?
Right?
The second dichotomy is how do Ireceive information?
Right?
Am I a sensor?

(21:33):
Am I using my five senses toreceive information?
Am I more intuitive and I'mpicking up on patterns and
theoretical ideas that I'mstreaming together without
realizing it, and that's how I'mreceiving information that is
often unseen or unnoticed bypeople who are not kind of
getting those intuitive guthunches right.
The next one is how do I liketo make decisions, right?

(21:56):
Am I a thinker or am I a filler?
Right?
Do I prefer to make solutionsthat are based off of logic and
reason, or do I prefer to makedecisions that are people and
value and reason, or do I preferto make decisions that are
people and value-based right?
Thinkers are going to be reallygood at solving problems because
they can take the people outand just solve the problem.
Feelers are going to want tofind solutions that work for

(22:16):
everybody around the table andmay not prioritize the actual
problem itself, right?
And then, of course, the lastone is is how do I kind of
orient myself in the world?
Am I a judger, which means Ilike to make decisions, I like
to plan, I'm organized and I'mstructured, or am I a perceiver?
My mind is always constantlythinking through the

(22:38):
possibilities of the thing, so Idon't actually like to make
decisions, because that's alittle stressful, because my
mind is not deciding between oneand two.
My mind is deciding between allthe possibilities of one and
all the possibilities of two.
Right, they tend to be morecasual, go with the flow,
flexible, right, and they can.
Often they're really good atideating, really good at saying,

(23:00):
hey, well, if this happens, x,y and Z, and if that happens X,
y and Z Meanwhile the judger hasmoved on, right?
The judger is they're quicker,where perceivers tend to be a
little bit more thoughtful andintentional and can be a little
bit slower in how they respondto things, right?
So all of those kind of ideascome together to give you a four

(23:25):
letter personality type, right,that you can actually, if you
guys go to 16personalitiescomand we'll make sure we write
that somewhere in the caption16personalitiescom will give you
a free assessment and it willgive you kind of the write-up of
what your four preferences arewithin each of those different

(23:45):
dichotomies.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Wow, you're really good at this.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
I've been doing it a long time.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
I've never sat.
You know, I've never been inone of Queda's classes, so I'm
just sitting here.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
You actually have, I have.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Oh, I have yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
I taught Angel Street .

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Oh yeah, that's right , I was in it but I street.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Oh yeah, that's right , I was in it, but I wasn't in
it.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
As a student, you know, I'm saying, oh okay, I'm
not gonna sit here, so I waspaying attention.
I'm probably doing some milk,so, uh, that's, that's no you.
You you did that well, okay,cool, thank you.
All right.
So I think it's important toknow this me and quita are exact
opposites, exact opposites inExact opposites.
In our letter combinations.
Okay, and as you were kind ofdescribing each letter

(24:28):
combination, because I thinkpart of that being opposite
piece and I remember doing this.
I've taken this test severaltimes, but is what which, like
opposite letter, gives me themost tension, it drives me the
most crazy.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Like it, just it drives me the most crazy Right.
It depends on the day Sometimesfor me it's pretty.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
it's pretty consistent, Like the thing that
I think it any the P, the, the,the the decision.
Oh man, oh, it drives meabsolutely crazy and um, but it
was just funny.
Like I'm hearing you describeit and I'm like, yeah, the
judger has absolutely moved on.
I am gone Like you are takingentirely too long making a

(25:11):
decision, right.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
So, okay, so just to give our full letters right, I
am an ENFP, right, and we couldtalk a little bit more about
what that means.
But I'm an ENFP, which meansI'm extroverted, I'm intuitive,
I'm a feeler and I am aperceiver right, the casual go

(25:35):
with the flow, but my mind isconstantly thinking through
possibilities, right, and I hatemaking decisions, absolutely
hate making them Right.
Ruth Abigail, my dear, dearfriend, whom I have loved so
much for the last 20 years,right, huh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
She is an ISTJ, which meansshe's introverted.

(25:59):
She's a censor, right, whichmeans that she is the
information that she'sprocessing and going through is
a little bit more concrete.
Right, she's a thinker, whichmeans she's logical and rational
and likes to like solveproblems.
Right, and she's a judger,which means she likes to make
plans and make decisions andhave, she likes to have her

(26:22):
outside world organized.
Yep, so yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, and so let's talk a little bit about what,
because Quido, you and I weretalking earlier and how we kind
of approached this when we firsthad it, when I took it.
So I took, I did a leadershipdevelopment class and this is
one of the things we did so 2018.
And so I took, I did aleadership development class and
this is one of the things wedid so 2018.
And so I have my results righthere and I look at these often

(26:49):
because they're not.
They're it's still very similar, right?
I've taken it several times.
I get ISTJ every time, and thisone in particular really kind
of not just gave you the letters, but gave you, like the range
on which you were, thatparticular letter, which I think
was one of the most insightfulthings for me personally,

(27:09):
because it helped me to.
It helped me to see myselfoutside of what my initial
perception was of these letters.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
And so I think like let's let's deal with the
introvert first, because yousaid something interesting.
A lot of times when we hearintrovert, we see this all over
like social media.
You got TikToks introvert,extrovert, introvert, extrovert
right.
You got, you know, all thesedifferent memes talking about
introvert versus extrovert.
And so you know, we, we, welike to describe ourselves as

(27:45):
introverts and extroverts.
Introverts basically want to bein the house, extroverts want
to be at a party.
You know that kind of thing,and that was always very, it's
very limiting, it's a verylimited understanding.
And what you said was it's noteven about whether and we make
it about being around peopleLike.

(28:06):
I like being around people.
I don't like being aroundpeople and it's not that Right.
So it's an energy thing.
It's.
It's how.
What energizes you more.
Does being around peopleenergize you more or does being
kind of alone energize you more?
It doesn't mean that you don'tlike, because even you and I
have talked, right, you're likeI need my alone time.

(28:28):
Right, because there was a timewhere I just you, you and being
alone did not.
I didn't see that like I waslike, I didn't see that that was
important to you.
I remember like, oh my god,saying that and like, oh, I
didn't know that she cared aboutbeing alone, whereas I, it's
like I can totally be by myself,I have no problem, and so,

(28:50):
anyway, I think that that wasunderstanding that there's a
range to certain things, andunderstanding what things
actually are talking aboutreally helped me to understand
me better.
And then, once you understandyourself, then you can
understand where you can go fromthere, right, you have to know
where you actually are.
And so for that introvert piece,this is what really got me Like

(29:12):
I was kind of tripped out aboutit.
We had like a there's like agrid and my, my introversion is
is is in the slight category.
I am slightly introverted,which shocked me, but then I
thought about it I was like, notreally right, so I'm not.
I definitely there's a part ofme that gets energized from

(29:36):
being around people in the way Ilike being around people which
could be very different than you.
And so what that does is when Iunderstand that then I don't
put myself in a box, becausesometimes I felt like I was in a
box and it's like, oh, this isjust who I am, and I definitely

(29:57):
had that thought process of asan introvert, this is who I am,
and it's like then you'reconflicted because it's like,
yeah, but I'm doing a lot ofthese things which feels very
opposite of what this is.
And then you have an introvert,you're not an introvert.
I'm like, yes, I am an introvertwe had this, you know this
argument back and forth, but I'man introvert, I'm not.

(30:18):
I'm not an extreme introvert.
Right, and I do.
I can find energy in beingaround people at some level
Doesn't mean that I'm to thelevel that you are Right.
So like those nuances arereally important and you don't.
It's the box thing, like don't,we can't live in a box and I

(30:40):
think some of us get realcomfortable in that box.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, I think that a couple of things that came to
mind as you were talking.
Like one, these are man made,like scientific tests that have
boxes, because that is how wecompartmentalize information by
making categories Right.
But these are categories thatwe have made, not that our

(31:04):
creator have made right we are.
We are simply trying to giveexpression to what we have
observed, right.
And so, yes, in this test thereis introvert and extrovert, but
it doesn't give.
You're not going to get thefull understanding of who you
are and who and how you operatefrom the test.

(31:25):
It is going to be the startingof your understanding yourself
and not the full explanation.
And I also think, okay, somethings that aggravate me, though
, after saying that, right, alot of people I have, introverts
who say I just want to be anextrovert, so I'm just going to,
like, start acting like anextrovert.

(31:45):
Baby, you made a certain way,you know, and I'm not.
This is not.
I don't want you workingagainst yourself.
Right, you have to learn towork who you are so that you can
show up in a way that fitswhere you are Right.
But we try to do the opposite.
We try to say, for instance, Iwork in campus or I used to, I'm

(32:10):
still.
It's only been two weeks, y'all, it's only been two weeks.
But I used to work in campusactivities, right?
You would think that people whowork in this field and we're
doing events, that we are outthere and we are bubbly and
we're like, hey guys, how's itgoing?

(32:31):
It's so good to see y'all andmost of my team were introverts
and they could turn it on for alittle bit, but that that's not
their norm, right?
I don't need them pretending tobe somebody that they're not.
Personality is about preference,right?
You prefer introversion or youprefer extroversion.
That does not mean, in all ofthese different personality

(32:53):
categories, all of us canoperate in both, all of us.
I prefer being an extrovert,but please believe, okay, my
personality type ENFP.
We're actually known as themost introverted of the
extroverts because we need a lotof alone time and, if you think
about it, right, you can't.

(33:13):
If you're going around sayingI'm an extrovert, I love being
around people, right, and you'reconstantly getting high off of
that social energy, you have tocome down, right, you're.
When you are high off of thatsocial energy, you have to come
down, right.
When you are high off of thatsocial energy.
You're not high off the drugs,but when you are high off of
that kind of social sorry, theseAirPods, they do what they want

(33:37):
to do.
When you are high off of thatkind of like you know I'm
engaging with my environment andI'm getting more and more hype.
Like you know, I'm engagingwith my environment and I'm
getting more and more hype youare not at a place where you're
making the best decisions, whereyou're thinking clearly and
really reflecting over your life.
You have to come down and getto a space where you are

(33:58):
actually kind of at a morereflective, more introverted
space, so that you can reallybegin to really think through,
kind of like, okay, what isgoing on in life right now,
whereas when you're engagingyou're at that high point,
introverts.
You have to spend your energyLike.
You cannot just stay in abubble and just keep getting

(34:20):
more and more, you know, in yourreserve space and enjoying you
Right, that's not the way.
That's not the way purpose isset up.
Purpose is not set up where Ijust enjoy my time all the time.
That's not and that's why youhave personality, but you also
have purpose, right.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
So you?
No.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to, Ididn't mean to cut you off, but
I think that the preference partof what you're saying is very
important, like we don't.
A lot of times, we don't hearit framed your personality is a
preference.
We hear it more so framed.
Your personality is who you areand and so it it.
It lends itself to to beinterpreted that this is who I

(35:04):
am, lends itself to to beinterpreted that this is who I
am.
Therefore, this is how I'llalways be, and so that that
understanding that it's apreference, I think helps to
like that means I can always.
I can choose different, right?
I can't.
I am capable of choosingsomething different.
So then it doesn't become anexcuse.
Your personality is not anexcuse for you to just live in

(35:27):
your preferences, because if youare listening to this podcast,
you likely are somebody whowants to grow, you wanna unlearn
.
Therefore, you have a healthyrelationship with purpose, and
if you have a healthyrelationship with purpose,
whatever that might be, then youare required to move

(35:50):
differently than your preference.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
You are required to do that.
The way I always teach it ispersonality is about preference.
Maturity will often require youto go against your preference,
right?
I have a lot of.
You know, when I was teachingundergrad students.
I have a lot of students whosay, oh, I'm just, I don't like
speaking in front of a room.
You know, I'm an introvert, soI just don't like getting in

(36:15):
front of people.
And it's well.
If you want the opportunitiesthat come with what you say your
career path is, or what you sayyour place of purpose is, you
are going to have to go againstyour preference, and I don't
think that there's anyone onthis earth that is not going to
have to learn to go against whatthey've become comfortable

(36:38):
being, right, and this is not tosay I believe personality is a
gift.
I believe personality is partof what God has created inside
of us, right, but I also believethat we have not yet realized
all of who we are.
You know what I'm saying.
Like, the different things yougo through in life will pull out

(36:59):
different pieces of you thathave to engage and interact
differently, right.
And so when I say maturity willrequire you to go against your
preference, for instance, thejob I have now is much more
administrative.
I'm doing policy review andsitting down and thinking
through just reallyadministrative things versus

(37:22):
where before.
I was very much moretransformative conversations for
transformative conversations,mentoring, guiding still have
some of that, but way more admin.
My P, my perceiver, my flexible,casual, go with the flow self
and my filler, my.
I want to make values-based,people-based decisions versus

(37:44):
more focusing on problemdecisions.
That does not always jive wellwith administrative roles, but
there is a piece, there is a waythat I can do this that will
still work for me.
I don't have to pretend to besomebody else to be good at my
job.
I just got to figure out how doI, with my extroverted,

(38:06):
intuitive, feeling, perceivingself, make this work in a
context that I can betransformative in the space,
since I know that that's part ofmy purpose everywhere that I go
.
And so learning how, notlearning?
I'm not asking you to change,I'm asking you to shift, and
those are different.
We're not asking you to changewho you are.

(38:28):
We're asking you to shift inhow you speak, understand and
think about where you are.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
And I think we're also asking you to become aware
of where you are For sure,understand, because I think a
lot of us, again, a lot ofpeople who are interested in
growth, change, unlearning,shifting your mindset we're
moving, we're constantly moving.
All the time it's not a in someway right, because we're kind

(38:58):
of hungry for that, and sosometimes when you do that, you
don't have time to stop andprocess and you don't even
realize some of this youprobably are doing, but you
don't really know why, you don'treally know how, and it's just
kind of coming.
And there is a point where youhave to move from intensity to
intentionality.
And I think that when we are inour stages of, just like, we're

(39:22):
moving, we're doing what we do,we're growing, we're cheering,
we're pursuing purpose, all thisstuff, it's intense, and then
you start to learn a little bitmore, you gain more more, you
gain more knowledge, you gainmore understanding and now we
get to be intentional.
So now with you, queen, I thinkwhat you said was a great
example of the shift in your job.
It's really interesting.

(39:44):
My role I've always, in the backof my mind, been like how did I
end up working in ministry withkids?
How did I get here?
Because nothing about mypersonality type says work with
young people.
That doesn't.
It just doesn't right, and soI've always been like how did I

(40:08):
get here?
I believe I was through theGod-ordained thing.
But one of the things and evennow I do love people I used to
say I don't like people.
That's not true.
I do Don't do that, I do I knowyou do.

(40:33):
But one of the things though, toyour point, I've had to learn
as a leader is to learn how toput a little bit more feeler
into my decision making, becauseI am naturally a thinker, again
on this assessment.
So you have, like you know, I Ilean heavy.
I lean slightly towardsintroversion and slightly
towards sensing.
I lean heavy, heavy towardsthinking, and so my natural way
of thinking is problems first,people second yeah like and as a

(40:56):
leader, that's not sustainable.
um, because if I don't, if I'mnot paying attention to people,
whether that's the youth that Iget to engage or the team that I
have to lead, then the cultureis, um, whack right, I don't
have, the morale can go down,and I've experienced both of
those things as a result of metrying to figure out how to

(41:18):
solve a problem and not reallynecessarily take into account
how people are going to beimpacted by the way we going to
solve this problem, right, um,and, but it is, is my, my
preference is let's just get itdone.
Oh, man, like I, um, I wouldhave definitely, uh, I would
have definitely been like, hey,y'all, let's, let's, let's,

(41:40):
figure something out.
You know, we still got to makethis thing work.
I'm solving a problem like I'mnot really paying too much
attention to how people aregonna feel about that, because
it's like we, we got, we stillgot to do.
We got to do.
We still got to serve thepeople.
We got to give them somethingthat they like, we got to, we
got to do.
You know, all this stuff at theexpense of, maybe you know us
as people.
But that's our job, this is ourjob and I have that mentality.

(42:02):
Naturally I move like thatnaturally, but it is not fair
for me to put that on otherpeople and I've had to learn how
to go against my own preference.
I'd rather the problem besolved and then me going like
crash after.
That's my preference.
That's not a lot of people'spreference.
So I had to, I have to figure,I have to grow out of that and

(42:25):
so, um, or grow through that,right, I won't say I have to
grow through it and I've got tobe very conscious about that
tendency of mine, and so I justthink that's a really like when
you said that, when you weretalking about like, how you, you
know, the administrative roleis a little different now and so

(42:45):
you have to, you got to findway to to tailor your
preferences to this new role,and we have, but it's about
maturity, yeah, it's aboutmaturity and starting.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
I think maturity starts with understanding where
you are now and understandingwhat's going to be needed of you
and being willing to make thesacrifice be needed of you and
being willing to make thesacrifice Right, I was just
thinking about it, you knowcause I, like I said, you know I
really enjoy my alone time andI don't think a lot of people,

(43:20):
like people who have been withme for a long time, know that
about me, but I feel like someof my, some people who might be
newer to the world of Jaquita,may not really get that yet.
Like, I enjoy the, the comedown experience, the.
I enjoy going into myreflective mode and into my

(43:40):
thinking through and my downtime, like because I have to wind
down, because when I'm, when I'maround people, I'm always on
because I'm also like there'ssomething inside of me that is
an entertainer, and aroundpeople, I'm always on because
I'm also like there's somethinginside of me that is an
entertainer, and so, like I'malways like I'm either
entertaining or I'm motivatingand inspiring, Like that is,
that is what I'm doing when I'maround people, but I need my

(44:03):
time to reflect and to thinkthrough and to do nothing
personally to play the games onmy phone.
And I was sitting on the couchlast night and I was like in my
nothing mode and I got so much Igot going on.
I got a test on Monday.
I got some stuff I got to bedoing, I got some things places

(44:23):
I got to be speaking at, I hadthis podcast.
I just got a lot going on.
I got a lot going on right nowand I was sitting on the couch
and I was like Jaquita, you aregoing to have to learn how to be
more intentional with your timeand it may mean that I'm going
to have to sacrifice some of myextroverted time to get more

(44:45):
space to do the work, BecauseI'm not doing the work when I'm
social.
I'm doing a work, but I'm notdoing the administrative work.
The administrative work doesnot get done in social settings.
Yeah Right, Transformative work, Absolutely.
Hey, baby, let me come in, Comein, Let me talk to you real
quick.
I want to help you do this.
You know like that work getsdone as an in my extroverted

(45:06):
spaces, but the type of work I'mdoing now definitely gets done
in a more.
I'm in this office by myselflooking through policies.
You know and, and and andcoming up with ideas of how
things need to change and shift.
Right now I can shape it sothat I'm getting to exercise my

(45:26):
extroverted thinking a littlebit and have conversations about
what I'm doing.
But it's absolutely a shift andthat's what I mean.
But you don't know how to shiftif you don't know where you are
and if you're not being realabout who you are and where you
are.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
So how do you deal with people?
Because I'm sitting here and I,um, I'm remembering a time like
early on in our earlier on inour friendship, you know, when
we uh, I guess it's after wegraduated college and we're like
you know, we're in getting intoour lives, and there there were
, there were seasons where Iwould call and you wouldn't pick
up the phone.
I'll be like, wait a minute,what's she doing?

(46:04):
Because Queda is like nah,that's not Queda, like Qu, like
Queda be blowing my phone up andlike, looking at you, you did,
you was blowing my.
You would call me multipletimes a day and I'm like bro, I
just don't feel like talking.
But I know me, that's me, youknow what I'm saying, I'm going
to do that.
But you're going to pick up thephone and I remember there was

(46:25):
a time, you know, where you justdidn't pick up and at first I
was concerned.
I said, well, is she okay?
And then, and then I was like,hold on, like you don't know,
you pick up the phone becauseyou're a people person, I'm not,
I had that excuse, right.
So so I I remember when thathappened.
So my question is I, you had tokind of like put me in check as

(46:46):
a friend to be like, yeah, I, Idon't want to be talking either
.
And I was like what you mean?
Like I really thought that wasjust who you were.
So how do you help people?
How do you help people managetheir relationships when they're
trying to shift into a moremature version of themselves,
which might mean peopleexperience them differently?

Speaker 2 (47:06):
That's good.
I think that I think, when yougot real people in your life,
you know, I think you have to beable to be honest and say hey,
because for me, what I came torealize was that some of my
extroversion was also rooted inmy people pleasing, was also

(47:33):
rooted in my people pleasing,right so and?
And also rooted in some of myinsecurities of not wanting to
face myself.
Because when I was in myextroverted spaces and I'm
talking to you and we're talkingabout what's going on or we're
talking about what's you know,like what's happening, like I'm
not having to deal with me,right, I'm not having cause, I
don't have to reflect on how I'mexperiencing things.
It's an it's it's also anescape, and a lot of people are

(47:56):
using either their extroversionor their introversion as an
escape.
That's fair, that's right, yeah,and so for me, the being on the
phone 24 seven, like I wouldwake up calling people
throughout my day I'm leavingclass calling people, I'm
driving home calling people, I'msitting on the couch on the

(48:17):
phone it was an escape becausethere was so much about me that
I didn't want to face um at thatperiod of my life.
And now, to be honest, if thephone conversations are not like
really digging deep and likeand understanding ourselves and

(48:41):
bettering ourselves and likepushing to the next level of our
life, I don't have, like, I'mnot interested in that because
that's not where I am.
I'm not looking to escapethat's right right into my
extroversion anymore.
Right, because I've grown toaccept more of me.
And so I think that, like, asyou are growing in your
friendships and you're growingwith people, I think that you

(49:02):
have to be that.
I think every, everyrelationship is just going to
have those pullback moments yeahwhere it's like you know,
especially friendships.
I don't know about marriage,because I ain't been married yet
, but I definitely think that,like you, have those pullback
moments where it's like, wait, Ineed, I'm doing this for me,
like I need to take a moment,ground myself and really become

(49:25):
really comfortable with what'shappening in me right now.
And that may not be for me.
I had to pull back to do that alittle bit, because I needed to
stop escaping Um and I and Ineeded to be, I needed to face
me and what was really in me andwhat was really going on with
me.
You get what I'm saying,whereas for an introvert, I'm

(49:45):
interested to know if that was ais a different experience,
that's really that's.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
I think that's, um, I think that's really good.
I definitely think, as anintrovert, I have uh, it was.
It was a little bit of anexcuse to avoid vulnerability,
for sure, Um, and beingtransparent and really like
cause.
I, you know, when you can, um,when you just kind of isolate,

(50:11):
you know and and and avoid kindof being in spaces where you
have to be, where you can't hidea big theme of my premature
self was I like to hide?
Right, I'm, I'm.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
I was.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
I was hiding, and so, um, I use being an introvert as
a reason to hide, right, and soit's like, no, I'm introvert, I
like being around people.
I don't want to be in crowds, Idon't want to be in public
spaces, you know, only when Ihave to, and all this stuff.
And it was more so like it'sbecause I really didn't want
people to see me, because I wasinsecure, I wasn't really sure

(50:52):
who I was, or I didn't.
I didn't, I wasn't proud of whoI was, and so, um, that, that
death, I think that that thatescapism is.
It's the same theme, it justhappened differently.
Um, I was escaping to myselfand using my personality as an
excuse to do that, but really Ijust I was hiding, I just didn't
want people to, and I think thething that had to shift for me
was, um, I, I had to get, I hadto get used to the mature

(51:16):
version of me, and you know, I'msaying I had to get used to the
ruth abigail, who doesn't hideanymore, um, which, quite
frankly, this podcast has helpedme to do.
I think I was doing the workbefore I started the podcast,
but it has has helped because itkind of forces me to be fully
who I am and not hide, like it'sout here.

(51:37):
This is who I am.
And then the response to thatis very one of the things that
I've always been I don't knowwhy, but really sensitive to is
when the attention that you getwhen something new has happened
in your life.
I don't I'm not a big attentionperson- You're not.
I don't and that's genuine, likethat's not me hiding, I

(52:00):
genuinely I'm just notinterested in that much
attention and I don't hide fromit anymore.
It's just still not mypreference.
I don't prefer to do that.
I do it if I feel like I have areason and for it and it makes
sense, I'll do it.
But if I don't, if that, if Idon't have to like I'm cool,
like I'm just going to be backhere, um, but that newness of

(52:23):
like that, wow, kind of like, oh, you know whether it's what I'm
wearing, whether it's a newseason of my life, whether it's
just a different energy that Imight bring, that response just
makes me uncomfortable.
I don't like that and so it'sbeen.
But to your point, the maturepath is, regardless of how

(52:44):
people respond to you is,regardless of how people respond
to you, regardless of how thatmakes you feel you moving in,
that maturity is the is moreimportant.
And then you end up getting.
You find, you find your waythrough that and you get used to

(53:06):
it, right, um, and then peoplebegin to you begin to show up in
in the more mature way andpeople get used to that.
But then there's also the nextlevel.
I know that there will beanother season of maturity where
I shift and it's like I have tobe um, very uh, I have to, I
have to accept how peoplerespond to the next shift.

(53:27):
Right, like that's that, thatis something, and I think again
it's, it's a mature mindset,like it's a mature mindset and I
just I love that distinctionand you got you gotta that
maturity is what's going todrive you.
If you're not interested inbeing mature, this isn't really

(53:47):
for you.
You know what I mean.
Like if you're not if you'reinterested in just kind of
remaining at the same level,remaining in the same kind of
place in life.
You know this isn't really foryou.
Like you know, doing thispersonality stuff isn't probably
going to serve you best.
It's going to keep you stuck,but if that's where you want to
be cool.
But for those of us that wantto mature, you know, you know

(54:12):
you use sorry this is RuthAbigail's T and J coming out.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
If you want to be stuck, then this ain't going to
really mean nothing to you, butif you want to grow, you need to
listen.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
That's hilarious.
I didn't even connect it tothat, but yeah, you're probably
right, like I, just that's, justthat's crazy, like that t and
that j, that thing, right there,okay, so let me go back to this
real quick, because I thinkthis feeling thing, because, for
those of us who are teased,right, we're thinkers, we're
probably like, we're like I,like that problem versus I have
always seen the feelers asirrational, um, unthinking, like

(54:50):
just impulsive personality type, and see, this is what I have
to deal with people.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
I want you, I want you all, to realize that this
was me and Ruth.
That imagine college age, ruthand Jaquita.
Okay, imagine the judgment.
Imagine the dynamics.
Okay, when she saw me as theweaker vessel, oh, man, oh man.

(55:23):
Oh man, I think you know, but itjust you know.
We didn't know anything aboutpersonality when we were in
college, but I know that we werealways like I'm here to fix you
, yeah, okay, because somethingis wrong, because you need help
I can't quite put my finger onit, but you need help and

(55:43):
because we didn't realize howdifferent we knew we were like
complete opposites, but wedidn't know that there was a
scientific study that would giveus, that would give us, full
indication of this.
But that's so interesting.
I'm sorry, please go back intoyour berating of fillers.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
No, sorry, yeah, I needed to say yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I I did.
I've always, I've always hadthat.
But the way that you describedit in the beginning, when you
were talking about each one ofthese kind of categories, is
that feelers really place theirvalues and people, they think

(56:21):
about those, before the problem,and that is a very different
context than I've ever reallyconsidered it.
Like I said, i'm'm thinking, youknow, you don't, you don't, you
don't think before you move.
It's the um, impulsive nature,it's the.
I just got, I just I.
It's the.
I can't explain why.
Like I don't, that doesn't workfor me, like no.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
Oh my gosh Y'all.
The majority of me and RuthAbigail's friendship has been me
saying something and her sayingwhy explain that what?
Why would you even do that?
No, I don't get it and I'm justlike girl, just trust me, I
know I'm talking about, but Idon't know how to talk about
what I'm talking about.
That drives me crazy.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
We had this.
We had a conversation aroundlike planning for this series
and we were talking about aparticular thing and I was I
made a suggestion and she waslike I don't want to do that.
How we both grow and maturethrough that.
Because at the end of thatconversation I, against the

(57:36):
better parts of me, decided thatI was just going to be OK with
it.
I was like, ok, I didn't likethat.
I was like it's like, I didn'tlike it.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
And I'll say this because just from the opposite
side of that, like after thatconversation, here's the thing
Ruth Abigail can do herprocessing in the middle of an
intense moment, like as we are.
In the intense moment, she islike here are my thoughts, here
are my perceptions, here's whatyou need to be doing.
And I don't work like thatunder pressure.

(58:07):
See, that's the judger.
Judges work well under pressurebecause they like decisions
made.
But I need a moment to stepback and process, because I'm
not able to fully articulate,especially when there's pressure
, like when there's pressureconcerning me.
If there's pressure concerningsomebody else's issue, I'm great

(58:29):
concerning me.
If there's pressure concerningsomebody else's issue, I'm great
.
But when it's pressureconcerning me and something that
I'm trying to say about me, Ineed a moment because my
perceiver is also bringing up alot of fear, and so I am like
standing in front of a wall offear of all of the possibilities

(58:50):
of what can happen that I can'texpress because it is just, it
is like pinging off on theinside of me and I can't
articulate that to somebody whois like tell me why right now,
and I'm like it's so many wise.
But I will tell you that afterthat conversation I did have
some moments to deescalate, todeescalate and think it through,

(59:15):
and we'll have anotherconversation, but yeah, that's
yeah, that's good, but I, butyou, even you even alluded to
that at the end of it.
You did, actually, you alludedto it, you was like you didn't
believe me, though, and I know,I know you did it she like she
said no and that's all it'sgonna be.
And I was just like tell her,ruth Abigail, hey, let me pray

(59:37):
about it.
It don't always work, okay,like she's like no, cause you
could have heard the Lord rightnow and known what you needed to
do, and I'm like, well,actually, no, I cannot, and
you're going to give me my time.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
It's such a growing.
It's such a growing moment forme and I'm so grateful to have
such close, such a close friendwho is so different, because it
helps and it helps like eveneven in being married.
I mean, um, so my husband hasnot taken these.
He won't take these first.
I mean, he just doesn't likethese.
So I try to, I've tried to gethim.
I will say he took this oneearly on.

(01:00:13):
We were dating.
Because we were dating, we werestill trying to like, impress
each other and all this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
All right, that's a dating tip.
Get them to take them early,get them to do it while they're
still trying to impress.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
You Got to be within six months.
After that, the new car smellsgoing to wear off and he ain't
gonna want to do it no more.
But if you want to get it done,right, do it in about six
months and I bet you'll get some.
So that's, that's the only onewe was able to do.
He wouldn't do the other ones.
But, um, we, we, but he.
He ended up being, weirdlyenough, the same one that Cuida
is now.

(01:00:42):
I'm still not sure that that'stotally true, but whatever, um,
it probably is.
But anyway, one of the thingsthat I'm sure that he is is a
perceiver, and it drives mecrazy, like I.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
I struggle so much after me preparing you for all
these years.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
I struggle so much, but I'm grateful to but, but
you're right, Like I'm gratefulfor that preparation because I'm
able to be more patient andlike, okay, you know, um, you
know, one of the things it'slike to his his, his, uh version
of let's pray about, I'll prayabout it, or let me go pray

(01:01:26):
about it, is, um, let's you know, well, let me give me a couple
of days.
Right, that's, that's what hesays, right, it's like well, I
don't, but I don't understand.
Like, this is not hard, let'sjust do this right now, let's
get it done.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Let's make the decision right.
All right, Okay, so I mean back, and anyway, this is an example
for the people.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
All right, if you you know anyway, I want to go back.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
I want to go back real quickly to that filler
thinker kind of dichotomy,no-transcript.
But before learning aboutpersonality, I found myself in a
place of conformity because alot of people around me were

(01:02:16):
thinkers and they were tellingme you need to be more logical,
you need to be used.
You know, and it was really andI was, it was coming from
everywhere and I think that thatwas just a time period in, like
the way thought thinking washappening in the early to mid
you know, early 2000s and 2010sare that feelings are not

(01:02:38):
important.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
The information age you know yeah, the information
age.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Nobody cares about your feelings?
Yeah, right, and so, as afiller, I shut that part of me
down.
I was really trying to shutthat part of me down and think,
like my logical and rationalfriends, when I first learned
about the personality test and Ididn't, I didn't even know this
much information about it,right, like I didn't know what

(01:03:03):
it really meant to be a filler.
I just knew that there was acategory called feeling, that I
was, that a lot of people were,and that there was a validity to
it and that, you know, like itis, there is importance to, not
just emotions, because I don'tthink feelers are more emotional

(01:03:25):
than thinkers.
I think we might be a littlebit more outwardly expressive of
those emotions I've had tounlearn that for sure.
Yeah, like there is.
There's this ideology thatfillers are just bleeding hearts
, gushing, oozing emotions, andif you know me, that's not me at
all.
Like I am, you know I.
I am a.
I am very heart driven, right,but I am not a cry baby.

(01:03:49):
I am not.
You know, I'm not the personthat you know is going to sit
and just ooey gooey feel, youknow.
But I am very value centered,right, and.
But it helped me to, to, tofeel empowered, to turn that
part of myself on and to stoppretending like I had to be this

(01:04:09):
cold, logical person.
Because that's how we startputting on masks, we start
telling people like, oh yeah,you know I, you know I'm, I'm
smart, and if I'm smart, I mustbe a thinker.
As if fillers can't be, can't besmart or can't be thinkers, or
aren't making good decisions,there are decisions that uh and

(01:04:31):
the the uh example are theactivity that I use when I teach
personality is.
I make everyone in the room aCEO and I tell them you know,
we've been through some hardtimes and you got to fire
somebody.
And there's an old man whomeverybody loves.
There's a, like middle agedwoman with four kids who gets
her job done but doesn't goabove and beyond.

(01:04:51):
And there's a youngwhippersnapper and I tell them
you have to fire one person, whoyou firing?
And you can just see as peopleare like bouncing back and forth
between the logic and reason ofhow I make that decision and
the but what about the peoplepart of that decision.
And I think that maturity meansI can envelop both of those

(01:05:13):
into the ways that I approach mydecision making.
Right, and ultimately, you maymake the logical, rational
decision.
But if, as a leader, you cannotaddress the needs of the people
and all you're doing is solvingproblems, you are going to lose
your team.
You're not going to lose theone person you fired.
You are going to lose your team.
You're not going to lose theone person you fired.

(01:05:35):
You are going to lose your team.
And if you are a bleeding heartthat people feel like they
can't depend on because allyou're doing is trying to answer
the needs of everybody and youcan't see the organization as a
whole and help us to come intoour next level as a group by,
like, really making the harddecisions, somebody has to make
the hard decisions that nobodywants to make.
Yep, right, but you and youmight be a filler.

(01:05:58):
Who's in that position?
And you are.
You are going to have to, butyou cannot invalidate who you
are in the process.
That's right.
Like you, ruth, abigail, as athinker, like you may have, you
may come to all theseconclusions of okay, I can't be
a thinker in every setting, or Ican't use my preference in

(01:06:19):
every setting, but that does notmean who I am is a bad person.
It just means that I need toshift.
Before I really accepted andgrew in personality, I thought
that the things about me thatwere unlike the people I was
around were negative and neededto change.
Because I was constantly.

(01:06:39):
I felt like I was constantlyunder this threat of if you
don't become more like me, youwill not succeed.
Yeah, and so I started tryingto become like the people around
me because I thought that theywere successful.
Lo and behold, that was theirtrauma and their issues that
were being projected on me.

(01:06:59):
That I'm, and now I'm trying tobecome like your trauma.
I'm trying to become like yourcoping mechanism.
Yeah, right, instead of and itit prevents me, and a lot of us
are living this life ofimitation that is preventing you
from dealing with your owntrauma and your own issues.
Amen, because I can't deal witha me that I'm not allowing to

(01:07:21):
manifest.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Oh, that's good, that's really good, that's
really good, that's good.
I had to chuckle a little bitwhen you were talking about the
example of the CEO and you haveto fire somebody, and here are
the three people you're going tofire.
Who are you going to fire?
You know, I had made a decisionIn my head.
I definitely had Before you.

(01:07:44):
Like three seconds after yousaid it, I was like I'd probably
do that and I had this whole.
Was it the old man?
Nope, it was the young one andthe whippersnapper, which is
crazy.
Right, it's actually not what Iwas thinking, but I was thinking
, you know, there are probablymore people that I could find,
that could.
This is literally I could findone of those faster than I could

(01:08:05):
this one who actually is moremature and more experienced.
So I'm getting rid of that.
I'm gonna find me a new one.
That that.
That that's the exact like waythat I, within 10 seconds, I
came to that conclusion.
It's, it's, but that is thatthat would be if I would, if I
would have actually made adecision based on just that.
That would have been a veryimmature thing to do.

(01:08:25):
Um, and you also.
That's why, also, you needother people, you gotta, you
have to, you have to be in acommunity of diversity so that
you are challenged to shiftright.
So I don't think that thatmature moment comes internally.
It doesn't, it comes externally, because what you don't know,

(01:08:49):
what you don't know, I can'tunderstand what's not naturally
in me.
I need to be connected topeople who are different so that
I can learn from them andwhatever they have can be input
in in, they can input into me.
That then will shift somethings that I am now considering
.
Uh, if you're only around peoplewho are like you, and you're

(01:09:10):
only around, or you're only withyourself, or you only trust
yourself, you can't, you don'tgive yourself a chance to mature
because you don't even knowwhat you need to to mature.
You have no, no way of gettingthat.
So I, I just, I love, I lovethat example.
Um, the.
What's interesting again, youand I were talking about this
earlier the you, you, you feltlike you had to conform.

(01:09:33):
For me, I felt like I wasoverly affirmed and I didn't
have to change at all.
And so it's like, hey, you'regreat at this and you're doing
all this stuff.
I would hear that too much,right, I've heard that too much,
especially in my younger years,and it made me believe I'm good

(01:09:54):
, like, so the things about meare just, they're great, so I
don't need to really change.
I might need to, you know, Imight.
I might see some weaknessesthat I want to sure up, but for
the most part, let me just keepgoing in this direction, and it
has landed me, me not havingthat, me not having that I won't

(01:10:14):
even say desire, but justknowledge that I needed to
change like really put me, as Igot older and as I got more
responsibility and as I had todo things differently than I was
doing before, I had to.
I made some mistakes that costme, and now now I'm seeing, oh,
no, no, no, no, no, you actuallydid have many places that you

(01:10:36):
can grow and mature, and now I'min a much more like.
Now I'm interested in that andI feel like you know, truly,
it's almost now that I'm sayingthis.
That's really interesting.
I never thought about it tothis point, but I think that may

(01:10:58):
be one of the reasons I want tostart the podcast because I got
to a point where I was like Igot to unlearn some things and I
didn't realize that until nowI've been overly affirmed in my
world and I'm not, as I'm not aswell done as I'd like to have
believed as I'd like to havebelieved.
There's some things I need tounlearn about, about who I am,
about how I move in the world,um, about some, some habits I've
formed, about people, aboutrelationships, about all of this

(01:11:21):
stuff.
Not because what, what it's,not because it was bad, but
because it needs to be differentin this season.
I need to be different in thisseason.
Yeah Right, it's not that what,how you were, was wrong, but as
you move forward, you can't,you can't always keep what you.
You can't always keep what youhad.

(01:11:42):
It won't work Like, um, youknow, if, if you have it's, it's
like, uh, going from a car thatneeds regular gas to a car that
needs diesel, you can't keepthe same gas, but like, it's not
going to work in your car, andso I'm in a.
I have a new car, I need adifferent, uh, I need a

(01:12:02):
different gas, a different levelof gasoline in this car, and
that's part of this.
That's part of this process Igot to unlearn right.
So, um, okay, so conformity, andwhat's the next?
What's the next phase?

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
information.
Right, and I cannotoveremphasize the importance of
self-awareness and how.
The different tests we're goingto be talking about are
information that is needed inorder to again form that mold of
who you are and understandingwhat's inside of me.
Right, and you got to getaccess to the information which
is why we're going through thesetests.
For me, right, and you gotta,you gotta get access to the
information which is why we'regoing through this test, these
tests.
For me, mbti was the first pieceof information that I got about

(01:13:02):
myself that was like, oh okay,extroverted.
This is why I, like you knowbeing in social settings, right,
intuitive.
This is why I can never explainto Ruth Abigail in concrete
terms, you know, how I'mgathering information and why it
is really difficult for me tobe a practical person, right, a

(01:13:25):
filler.
This is why I have differentideas of how I approach people
in different circumstances,because I'm looking person to
person versus problem to problem.
Right, being a perceiver.
This is why I get on RuthAbigail's nerves, Because I
don't like to make decisions,because I like to, I like to

(01:13:46):
think and ponder before I move,right, and so it was all of that
kind of all together thatreally just gave me the
beginning of knowledge, right,but it wasn't until I took the
knowledge and really startedapplying it and really
reflecting.

(01:14:09):
Way you reflect, whether that'sin discussion with friends, if
that's journaling, if that'staking classes, life coaching,
counseling, whatever way it isthat you take a step back from
yourself and really investigate.
How does the knowledge thatI've been gaining and the

(01:14:30):
experiences that I've beenwalking through, what is that
really showing me about how Ishow up in these different
circumstances?
And once you get through withreflection, then you can begin
the process of transformation.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
That's good.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
Right, but you have to reflect on what you've
learned and we don't do thatenough.
We don't sit down and actuallyprocess information, which is
why we don't keep it, becausewhen you think about remembering
something, you have to recordit first.
You have to retain it, then youhave to be able to retrieve it
If you are not recording enoughabout yourself.

(01:15:09):
If all I had recorded was I'man ENFP and I hadn't recorded
I'm an ENFP who shows up inconversations with friends like
this.
I'm an ENFP who, when facedwith these different
circumstances, show up like this, I would not be retaining
enough information to retrieveas I go through different things

(01:15:29):
in my life.
And we have to make sure thatwe are reflective because it
allows us to have moreinformation that we can pull up
about ourselves.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
So I think that is a struggle for a lot of driven
people and I say this as adriven person to reflect right,
because reflecting means youhave to slow down.
One of the things that Iconsistently struggle with is

(01:16:04):
slowing my pace down.
Like I am a fast mover, I liketo move fast, like to get things
done.
I like that.
That is a.
That's just a.
That's just who I am right.
That is a part of mypersonality, part of why.
I like to make decisions soquickly.
It means I can keep movingright.
But I agree with everything yousaid.

(01:16:25):
It is important If you're goingto transform, you have to take
time to reflect.
If you're going to mature, youhave to take time to reflect.
You cannot get caught up in thebusyness of growth that you
don't take time to actually dowhat it's going to take to

(01:16:45):
transform.
So growth is different thantransformation.
It is not the same thing.
I think we assume.
I think we assume it is right.
So when you think aboutsomething growing, we have to
think it's getting bigger.
It doesn't mean it's being,it's getting different.

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
It's not getting better.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
It's not getting better, but it's also not
getting different.
Like transformation means I'mthis and then I'm that.
Growth means I go from here tothere.
Like it is a, it is a stretchand expansion.
Like you're, it's the volume isbigger like a balloon, versus
transformation is like abutterfly it is.
It is a caterpillar to a wholedifferent thing.

(01:17:28):
Like it's completely differentthe process a whole different
mode of operating wholedifferent mode, yes, whole
different mode of operating,because you have a whole new set
of tools you had before.
The only way you get there isif you slow down, go into the
cocoon, go into the cocoon, andwhen you're the cocoon, you
can't move you.

(01:17:48):
There's no movement, there'sjust still.
There's reflection, there'sprocess, there's understanding,
there's learning, um, and thenyou emerge and you have these
new tools that give you to donew things like fly, like you
can fly and you couldn't flybefore that.
We got people who want to flythat have not slowed down enough
to actually gain wings.

(01:18:10):
You don't have them.
So you're, you're over herecrawling on the ground as a
caterpillar.
Try to fly.
You can't do that, and crawlingfaster won't make your wings
come quicker, like you got tostop crawling for a minute and
that's something I've really,really had to learn.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
Ruth, make that the clip.
That's good.
That's good because that's whatwe do.
We try to do more of the same,thinking that that's going to
get us to the next level of ourlife.
That's right, and the nextlevel of your life is not on the
ground, it's in the air.
It's in the air it's in the airand until you stop and reflect

(01:18:50):
you, you won't see that.
Nope, you won't see that Icannot get to where I'm supposed
to get, to where I have to getto on the ground.
And it's going to take atransformative experience to get
you to the next level of yourlife, and I think that's the

(01:19:13):
mode I'm in right now.
I feel like I had to get offthe ground, yeah, um, and it was
hard to do.
It was hard to leave the groundbecause I was like I'm
comfortable here and I'm good atwhat I'm do, what I do, man,
that's real.
I'm good at what I do and I'mcrawling with the best of them,

(01:19:36):
you know.
But I had to be intentional inbelieving that the shift, like
becoming the butterfly, wasgoing to be the most beautiful
and amazing experience and allowmyself to enter the cocoon
again.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
And that's hard, that's hard, that's hard,
especially yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
Yeah, for sure.
I would like to emphasize thatwe exist in this world of time
and that as a society, we haveput time limits and constraints
on when we think people shoulddo things and how quickly we
think people should do them.
And you know, we think you know, by this age by age 35, you
need to be here and you know ifyou're going to take a break, it

(01:20:23):
needs to be this long or youonly need to spend this much
time figuring out.
God is the author and thefinisher of your story and he
knows what every chaptercomprises and he is outside of
time.
He is not looking to say ohyeah, she got one month to get

(01:20:45):
it together.
You need to spend the time thatyou need to spend to address
the things that have goneunaddressed because you've been
too busy.
You need to spend the timeresting that your body has gone
unaddressed because you've beentoo busy.

(01:21:06):
Come on and we equateproductivity with purpose and
we're looking at the Lord andwe're saying look at all of our
works.
And the Lord is like I'm notlooking with your eyes, don't
look with your eyesight.
I'm looking at you because Godcares about us and not as much

(01:21:29):
about what we do and we have toflip the narrative.
You have to take a moment andflip the narrative and say how
do I allow God to take care ofme so that I can continue to not
just be a vessel that getspoured into and poured out, but
a vessel of honor that God lovesand that I allow myself to be

(01:21:51):
built and shaped in the cocoonwhen it's just me and the
creator?
And I would encourage all of mymiddle adult friends you know,
have we used the word middleadult since we've been here?
Hello, middle adults, hey,we're talking to you, we love
y'all, we are y'all, we arey'all Right.
And let me tell you somethingLike you will have to take a

(01:22:13):
moment.
You are going to all of us, allof us, my 35, my 35 to 50 crew.
It's time, it's time to take amoment, it's time to take a step
back and to reevaluate, lord,what is really important in this
season?
Because I've made everythingimportant except for me and my

(01:22:34):
relationship with you.
I've made everything importantexcept for what I have right
here, in this space, in thiscocoon.
What am I really focusing onright now?
Because the next season we'reabout to move into we're going
to see God move at such a level.
That has absolutely nothing todo with our capabilities.
Our gift sets none of that.

(01:22:55):
That's correct.
He's not.
He's not depending on you to dowhat he needs to do in the
earth.
He's depending on you to simplybe a representation of his love
and his character.
But you can't get that ifyou're disconnected.
So I want to encourage all ofus and I said us because we're
all included I want to encourageall of us and I said us because
we're all included.

(01:23:16):
I want to encourage all of usto take some time and reconnect
with the creator.

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
So I'll, I'll, I'll tag this to the end and then
we'll, we'll wrap it up.
There's a person I listened to.
His name is Myron Golden, hisspeaker, author, all this stuff.
He has a concept that we dohave.

(01:23:48):
He says it's not his concept,it's a biblical concept, but he,
it's like.
You know, we, we want to, couldbe whatever.
Whatever the thing is that youwant to have, well, in order to
have those things, you have todo certain things to get them
right.
So you have to do things to getthe things you want.
But the key to doing it isbecoming a person that can do
the things that can get you whatyou want.

(01:24:08):
So it starts with becoming.
It doesn't start with doing.
You can't outdo who you are.
It's not possible describinghere is this process?
Of reconnecting to the one whocreated you in the first place

(01:24:45):
and becoming more of a fullnessof who he created.
So that then you're able to dothe things that will then get
you what it is that you're, thatyou're after, um.
So I, we told y'all it's gonnabe better in season two, it's
season two, coming in, hot, yep,yep, yeah, coming in, hot,

(01:25:07):
coming.
And we is yeah.
So y'all, y'all, uh, y'all,stay tuned.
We, we gonna do, we we're gonnado several of these, man, and
they're all going to bedifferent because they're all
hitting on different things.
Right, these assessments don'tget it twisted these are very
different conversations becausethey're handling different parts
of who you are, differentseasons and different things.

(01:25:28):
So keep tuning in.
We're unlearning ourpersonalities this season.
So, like, share, comment,subscribe, that's right.
That's what we're unlearningour personalities this season,
uh.
So, uh, like share, comment,subscribe, that's right.
That's what we're supposed todo, okay yeah, hit us up like
share comment subscribe.
We do want to hear from you.
We love when you comment onstuff and share stuff and it is
like y'all are listening, we, we, we hear it like in person.

(01:25:49):
People come up to me all thetime I watch your stuff, I know
if they say the same thing toQueda and then, like the numbers
say we're listening, like thereare, y'all are actually tuning
in.
So keep tuning in.
Let us know what you think andlet's keep unlearning together
so that we can experience morefreedom.
Yeah, peace out y'all.

(01:26:11):
Thank you once again forlistening to the Unlearned
Podcast.
We would love to hear yourcomments and your feedback about
the episode.
Feel free to follow us onFacebook and Instagram and to
let us know what you think.
We're looking forward to thenext time when we are able to

(01:26:33):
unlearn together to move forwardtowards freedom.
See you then.

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