“They Not Like Us”: The Conversation About Race That You Haven’t Had Yet

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We welcome Megan back to the podcast for a crucial conversation centered around race. Through personal anecdotes and open dialogue, we explore the complexities and nuances of discussing race among friends from different backgrounds. 

- The importance of courage in changing perspectives 
- Creating safe spaces for honest discussions on race 
- The role of relationships in fostering understanding 
- Personal experiences that shape racial perceptions 
- The communal aspect of racial identity and support 
- Navigating discomfort and stereotypes in race conversations 

Become a part of our community where real conversations can currently take place. Don’t just be a listener, take action! Engage with the podcast, share your thoughts, and help spread awareness. Join us in unlearning together so we can experience more freedom. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
hello everybody and welcome once again to the
unlearned podcast.
I am your host with abigail akara what's up, friends?
It's your girl, jaquita andthis is the podcast that is
helping you to gain the courageto change your mind so you can
experience more freedom.
And yes, yes, yes, we have aspecial guest not her first time

(00:26):
on the podcast.
What's up, megan?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Megan was like when do I say my name?
Do I say it now?

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Do I say it right now .

Speaker 1 (00:38):
I love it so good to be here, oh, yay, okay.
So we're excited.
So this, yeah.
So, like you all know, we're inkitchen table conversations and
so we invited Megan to join usfor this one, and I'm just going
to kind of let her, because Iam who I am, you know what I

(01:01):
mean.
Me and Megan have been friendsfor a long time.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
She's so trifling Wow , it was very petty.
She's so trifling Wow, it wasvery petty.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
I am who I am means I'm trifling.
Go ahead, Meg.
I'm telling the story.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
I just get a text message and it's like hey, me
and Queeter are doing thisseries.
We want you to be on thepodcast, but you have to commit
before I tell you what the topicis going to be.
And I'm like that sucks Signingup for, but you're my friend,
so like that's just what we do.
We say yes.
And then she was like okay,well, we're going to talk about

(01:34):
race.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
And I was like, oh, yeah, I would like to say as a
member of the Unlaunched podcast, I am not at all represented.
Okay, in the way that RuthAbigail chose to approach poor
Megan.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
She mentioned you're white, me and Queda both know
you.
That's crazy and I'm like I'mpretty sure you both know at
least two white people.
I know you know more than one,but then it makes sense like
maybe I'm the only one you guysknow together.
Who's like we've all spent timetogether like this it makes

(02:11):
sense.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
It gets crazier and crazier it gets crazier and
crazier, I mean it's justgetting worse and worse, so Ruth
Abgo's like I need a white, Ineed a white technically I'm
Olive and I don't subscribe tothe white, but I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
I'm just kidding everyone.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
That was a joke.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
I'll do it was hilarious.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
That is hilarious.
Yes, so just teasing, so yeahthat's why we're here that's why
we're here, guys, welcome.
All right, so we're talkingabout, we're gonna tackle this,
this issue of race, and yes, itis true, I did do that.
Yes, it is true that jaquitahad nothing to do with it, so
her name is totally cleared Ididn't approve megan though oh
yeah, megan, she did, yeah, yeah, she just didn't approve the

(02:58):
way I did it, but um, I thoughtshe had a little more class.
I don't know the goal was to getit done.
Okay, got it done there it isbut in all seriousness I do this
.
This is a.
This could be a tense topic.
We know that.
We realize that we're tacklingsomething that is not often

(03:20):
tackled and when it is not oftentackled well, and so I mean,
it's true, like a lot of peopledon't know how to talk about
race well, I mean, that's realum, and a lot of times we don't
talk about it with um, withother people, with people who
have a different race.
I mean the reality, like atleast I don't sound about y'all,
but like on podcasts I rarelysee rarely, not that I haven't

(03:43):
seen at all, but but rarely seefor people of different races on
the same podcast at all, to behonest with you, and then
talking about race on a podcastthat isn't rooted in one
educating the other, right this?
is not what this is.
We are not here to educateMegan on how to be a nice white

(04:03):
person.
That's not what this is about.
No-transcript, not to be upset,not to get like we're not, but

(04:29):
it really is to learn how tohave these healthy, real, um,
raw, uh, tense, uh, sometimesdifficult, but can be very
healing conversations, right, um, and the whole goal of this and
of the podcast is to help uschange our minds, like, so we
got to change our minds abouthow we actually approach this

(04:49):
topic.
And, um, megan is, she is agreat friend of mine, um, and
you know, I trust her and wereally are.
It's one of those things, like,when she calls me to do some, I
don't ask much many questions.
The answer is probably going tobe yes, and because we, just
because we have a relationshipand I think, like just opening

(05:10):
up the conversation, like youknow me, meg, we were talking
earlier relationship is such acentral key to this.
I mean we wouldn't be on thispodcast together doing this if
we didn't have a relationship.
Yeah, you know, for sure.
So how has I'll just kind ofopen up the question just like
you know how has relationshipplayed a role in your relations,

(05:34):
with your connections withdifferent races growing up?

Speaker 3 (05:39):
You want to go first, sure.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
You know.
So I grew up kind of in themilitary.
My dad got in the militaryright before I was born and so
we kind of moved from state tostate and then we moved out the
country.
I started school in Germany,was over there for four years
and as we like kind of opened upthis conversation, I was
thinking about the first time Irealized I was black and it was

(06:03):
in the first grade.
I was in the first grade At thetime.
My best friend, her name, wasJenna Okay, I don't know where
you at, jenna, but hey, girl,but at the time, first grade, my
first best friend, her name wasJenna, and I had another best
friend too and Jenna was mixed.
And then my other best friend Ican't really remember her name
because it was first grade, butlet's just call her Mariana

(06:25):
because I think it was somethingclose to that.
Wow, but she was, she wasHispanic and that was my crew,
like when I went to school.
It was me, jenna and Mariana.
So sorry, mariana, I knowthat's not your name, but but we
best friend anyways.

(06:51):
I mean, it was first grade, Iwas six, I got okay.
But I remember one day on theplayground, you know, jenna was
very, very fair-skinned um, andI remember we used to play every
day on the playground.
I knew I was gonna go outsideand I was gonna play with jenna
oh, that's why I don't rememberher name.
Baby left, she left in themiddle of the year.
There you go.
We didn't really get to bond.
There it is.
So it was me and Jenna for awhile.
And then one day I went to theplayground and Jenna was hanging

(07:12):
out with some white friends andI was like, okay, so I guess
I'm going to join this crew.
And Jenna came up to me and shesaid you know, jaquita, we
don't have to hang out all thetime.
And I was like, oh, so I'm notgood enough to hang with you and
your new friends.
Oh, wow, and that literally was.

(07:32):
That literally broke somethingin me, because it made me feel
like I was like oh, I don't knowthat I can, like in a, in a
real way, have friendships withpeople from different races,
because I wasn't.
I was good enough when shewanted to be friends, but I
wasn't good enough when shewanted to hang out with her

(07:52):
white friends.
So eventually I found the, Ifound my black friends and they
were like you know, they werelike you belong here.
You know, like you were alwayssupposed to be here.
And so it took me a while tokind of like navigate through
having relationships withdifferent people, because that
really broke my heart at a youngage and it set a precedence

(08:15):
that like when you go into,because as an army kid you were
always in new situations.
You know, like we moved back tothe United States.
I came back to school and I waslike, ok, who's going to be my
friends?
And then immediately you go,you start navigating toward
people that that look like you,but on the army base.
It wasn't like that until I hadthat experience.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
And I didn't know that.
Queda, that's a new story.
I didn't know that thathappened.
I feel like Joy knew that.
Wow, I don't know how to feelabout that.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Cause I feel like I've told you this story and you
just forgot it.
No, I've never heard that story.
Not that.
No, I really haven't Like um,but like that would be, uh, very
defining, like I you knowthat's a very defining moment I
mean and this is not to say Ijust want to clear the air this
is not to say that growing up Ididn't have friends from

(09:08):
different races, I absolutelydid, but I'm saying it put this
natural inclination in me thatsaid you might get rejected,
yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Like a pause.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, Like a pause, Like hey, am I cool enough for
you?
Am I smart enough for you?
Am I like?
I felt like I had to provesomething in order to go into
those other spaces, Whereas Ifelt more like I was already.
There was already a place atthe table for me, at the black
table.
I had to.

(09:40):
I had to either prove that Iwas going to be like you know,
safe and acceptable I had to beextra funny or I had to be extra
smart, Like I had to findsomething that would make me
click in that space.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah, I, um, I grew up in a interesting situation.
My school situation was, um, Iwas the only black kid in my
class up to the eighth grade andum, and you know, none of my
teachers were ever, uh, wereblack.
I just did.
That's just not what my.
That wasn't my education.
So five days out the week I wassurrounded by white people Like

(10:20):
it was just a part of that wasjust how I grew up and then on
Sundays I went to an all-blackchurch and so Sundays and
Wednesdays and Sunday nights, soI mean you know we were there
and so, but like it, I had avery my experience with another
race was with white peoplespecifically was because we were

(10:45):
at was at a private school.
At that school there was a lotof people of means and wealth.
My understanding was whitepeople are a lot of.
I'm not going to say they allwere this, but in my mind, just
as a kid, white people are smartand white people are rich.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, but I think that's.
Can I interrupt?
I think that is.
I think that's such a valuablestatement of like as a kid,
which is why it's so importantlike to start having these
conversations when kids arelittle, because they don't have
the ability to like abstract,think Like to them it is like oh
this is how I felt, this iswhat this meant, and I think we

(11:24):
like grow up just associatingthat, like that's what that
meant.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
Whether or not maybe someone actually meant for you
to feel rejected or not.
Like that's besides the point.
Like kids don't have theability to do deductive thinking
, yeah, yeah.
Like that is what's true.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, and, and you go about life like that and, like
you said, you form philosophiesaround that Like, and you know,
and so it was like all right, soI have to be.
I'm not I mean, we're notwealthy, I can't do anything
about that but I could dosomething about being smart.
So I was like well, I guess I'mjust going to have to be smart,

(12:01):
and and and I.
I think that was just, it wassomething, even if I'm saying it
out loud, I don't know that Iactually I could for sure.
No, I did not.
I was not conscious of that,like, but in my mind it was.
I have to perform academicallyat a level that makes it make
sense that I'm here.

(12:21):
You know, um, and my uh, andwhat I'm grateful for is I'm
grateful for this.
I'm grateful that I had abalance in my life, um, where my
, my, my church world and justmy family were very affirming in

(12:43):
you.
Being black is, um, somethingto be proud of.
This is our history.
This is why this is you know,you, and, and, and.
So I was affirmed in those waysgrow all at the same time.
I was experiencing this otherthing and I think as a, because
most of a child's life is withintheir academic space.

(13:06):
That took precedent in my minduntil I got older.
You know what I mean.
So, like the things I wasaffirmed of in my home, at
church, I didn't reallyinternalize that deeply until I
got older and I got out of thatand I began to experience, um,

(13:28):
and went till I got to college,really, and like that's when
everything shifted and I startedto see the world from the
different lens of like, oh, like, oh, shoot, like I'm.
This is not what I thought itwas, uh, and I and I had, I had
to, I had to unlearn, and I hadto unlearn that what I was

(13:52):
experiencing at home was thesame as what I've experienced
when I left.
Like that it wasn't the same andthat's why I'm grateful for the
counterbalance of my home andmy church, because it gave me
something I didn't know I neededwhen I left and I had to stand

(14:13):
on my own in, uh, in a sea ofother indifference that that did
not know who I was you know,I'm saying like um, and so it
did impact.
how I began my relationships.
I had my relationships with um,with my friends at school, was

(14:33):
just because we were at school,like that was, that was my you
know, and they happened to bewhite Like I didn't think
anything of it.
But when I went to college andI and I approached white people
like I would have approachedthem in high school or in
elementary school where I grewup, it did not transfer like
white folks did not, did notaccept me like that, like I

(14:56):
still, I felt othered and I waslike, hold on, I've never felt
like this, like I've never.
I never like felt that thatstrong and it and it redefined
how I approached my relationswith white people.
Interesting, if I'm beinghonest.
Like that was, yeah, it justredefined it, um, because I was
like, oh, got it, so that was a.
My experience was like a it'slike I mean, it truly wasn't a

(15:19):
bubble, and now the bubblesburst and okay, cool, cool, I
didn't, I didn't know.
Now I know, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
What about you?
It's interesting.
I don't necessarily have, Imean, when I was little.
I don't have any stories likethat necessarily.
I just remember like race was,it just wasn't a topic of
conversation.
I think the main conversationwas just like you treat everyone
the same, you don't see color,we all bleed the same, and I

(15:49):
don't necessarily think that'sbad information, but we just
didn't.
It was like if you said black,it's like don't say black and
you're like, okay, why can't Isay black?
You know, my elementary schooland middle school, like I was
probably, honestly, I think itwas pretty equal diversity wise.

(16:10):
I think that was the area Ilived in and I just it wasn't
until I got to college that Iwas genuinely confused that like
people I was eating dinner withdidn't have black friends.
Like that just didn't makesense to me.
But I, while being infriendships with black people, I
still had the mindset of likewe don't see color, like I don't

(16:31):
know if I ever valued them forbeing black.
It was just, you know, I wasjust there I did, in high school
, date a black guy and we wouldgo to some of his family's house
and I remember one time I don'tthink this like I don't know
what the significance of it wasin the moment, but I was like

(16:54):
very aware of like theconversations that being had
about white people behind closeddoors.
Um, yeah.
And they just are a thing Likeand I remember one time trying
to bring a cake over to like oneof the family functions and it
wasn't good and I remember beingmade so much fun of I'm so

(17:15):
sorry.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
I'm so sorry oh no, oh, girl oh man, and so I think
like the only way that thatreally oh girl, oh man.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
And so I think like the only way that that really
impacted me was like oh, whitepeople can't cook, really can't
cook, and the seasoning likesuper bland, it did kind of
pause.
I didn't cook for a very longtime.
I'm just now kind of startingto start cooking again.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
But you gotta just let it roll.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
You gotta let it roll off you know right, listen it
was.
It wasn't until I was like inhomes of people that I realized,
like, what conversations wereactually happening that
definitely weren't happening inmy household.
If it wasn't for thoseexperiences, I'm not sure I
really would have understood theconversations in general yeah,

(18:10):
yeah, yeah no, I think that's sointeresting because I feel like
it.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
You coming into black spaces where you're the other
like, even though it was, likeyou know, like a cake, like
they're still like this.
Okay, a, I now have to performfor this other side or I have to
show up in a way, like I thinkyou know one.
It's a human need, likeeverybody wants to feel accepted

(18:38):
, you know, and we want to feel,um, we want to feel like we
have a place in the spaces thatwe show up, but when we are our,
our living spaces I thinkthat's so interesting because me
and Ruth were talking about,like, educational spaces- yeah,
but when you?
go when you go into each other'shomes.
I'm like I told somebodyrecently I was like you know,

(19:00):
just because we 100 on thispodcast.
I was like, and you know, justbecause we 100 on this podcast,
I was like I don't really, Idon't really know that I know
what the inside of a whitecouple's home is like, like I
don't know what the feel of itis like.
Like how do we talk to the kids?

Speaker 3 (19:15):
Is it like hey, you better sit down somewhere, or is
it like hey?
Johnny, are we gentle parenting?

Speaker 2 (19:21):
I don't know, you know like Child, no gentle
parenting I don't know Blackpeople gentle parenting now too.
Honey, it's a mix.
It's mixed out here foreverybody, for everybody.
Okay, parenting is a wholenother bag right now.
It is not what it was when wewere growing up, but you know,
like I don't know what, likedinner conversations look like,
because I've never been invitedinto those spaces, and so when

(19:45):
you don't get invited into thosespaces now granted, in high
school I did, but it was a whiteguy who had a lot of black
friends, and so we all used tobe over there, shout out to
Michael, but we and he, he, hewas, uh, anyways, that's neither
here nor there.
But I don't, I don't have a lotof context for what's happening

(20:06):
in intimate spaces with with,you know, white people, and so
that's something that.
But it's something that I'mlike curious about.
You know, like it's somethingthat I'm like I feel like we
could build better relationshipswith each other If we had more,
if there were more invitationsinto vulnerable spaces you know,
invitations to the cookout, ifyou will.

(20:28):
You know like you need to be inthose vulnerable spaces in order
for there to ever be a bridge,because without that, we're all
just playing in the.
You know like when we you'renot, you're not really yourself
when you step outside your houseyou know you are putting on
some type of performance when Igo to work.
I'm giving them, hey guys howwas your weekend?

Speaker 3 (20:50):
I'll be on the phone.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
I'll be on the phone with when she be walking in,
sometimes to to work and I tellyou what that's, that flip boy?

Speaker 2 (20:59):
we all do it we all do it first of all.
First of all, I'm friendly.
That's because I'm friendly.
I'm friends with you, but I'mfriendly, okay, with my work
right now you ain't, so I talkto them in a friendly voice.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
You get whatever comes out I don't get friendly,
that uh, that ain't, but it's so.
But.
But to your point, though, theflip is so quick, it's, it's a
natural, because you're right,we don't, we perform.
I mean, that's, we're on, we'reperforming outside of our house
, like that's real.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, the space you're walking into is going to
dictate how you interact with it.
Yes, right, like I don't eventhink about it, I walk into that
space and I'm like, oh yeah,this worked, jaquita, you know I
.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Like if.
I, if we had friends morediverse friends that we were
spending more intimate time with, could we?

Speaker 3 (21:51):
start taking off some of these faces, yeah, and some
stuff.
Like I think some stuff has tobe approached with some
lightheartedness, you know.
Like I think it's OK to saythat, like white people season
differently than black people,like we, don't accept all
stereotypes.
I mean, that's sometimes,that's really true, you know um,
it's pretty true it's not justa stereotype just right and like

(22:14):
vulnerabilities.
Nobody just wants to be wrongand be embarrassed.
So it's like if you can just beokay with, like maybe I did say
the wrong thing, I think theart of like reconciling
something is lost a little.
It's like if I offended you orif I said something that wasn't
okay.
Like please tell me.

(22:35):
And then also like, just makeit right, but we don't.
Like.
The conflict is such a likethat's a hard thing for people
and people want to avoid it andthey don't want to deal with it.
But real healing comes fromwhen you have hard confrontation
conversations and there's aresolve at the end of it.
Yes, you're like man it reallywasn't that bad.

(22:57):
It's just bigger in our headsfor good reason like social
media and the media like itmakes it almost impossible to
want to even attempt to dosomething hard.
And I'm not even talking aboutjust white and black people
having conversations likethere's a lot of pressure, but
there is um.
Dealing with conflict is likejust a lost art yeah, I, I think

(23:23):
I.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
I just want to go back to something you were
saying earlier.
Well, both of y'all, which is,you know, bringing up the
intimate space piece and justlike being in each other's
vulnerable spaces or intimatespaces.
And, megan, I think it's agreat point what you make.
We just like the experience ofbeing in a home and that which
is different than being in, youknow, educational environments.

(23:45):
It's very different, right, andso church or church like it's
very different.
And so I, um, I think that no,no, no, where'd it go?
Where'd it go?
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,no, no, no, no it is um but, but

(24:11):
I think I think my, myoverarching point was how uh, oh
, there was, I got it.
So in those spaces you weresaying megan, megan, you noticed
, you recognized we don't talkabout Black people the way Black
people talk about white peoplein their homes, and it's really,
I think that's so interesting.

(24:32):
It's like no, no, no, we don'ttalk about that versus.
I mean, in my home we talkedabout it.
We talked about it from astandpoint of learning.
In my home we talked about it.
We talked about it from astandpoint of learning and
education, and I need to showyou and teach you and you need
to be aware of, and you know,all these different things and
it's true, like I mean, I amgrateful for that and you know,

(24:54):
and I think also just for a.
It also defined, I think, safespace right, and it does a lot
of Black homes.
It's like you have to deal withbeing the minority everywhere
else, but in your safe spaces,and for Black people throughout
history, most of that has beenthe home and the church, and so

(25:15):
those are spaces where we get totalk about what it's like being
out here with white people.
White people don't necessarilyhave that same.
Well, let me say I mean you andyour case and we're not.
We're not generalizing here,but you know it's.
I do find that to be reallyinteresting, like it was a
natural conversation for us.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
We did talk about it Right, like I mean, it was a,
but it was kind of just theblanket statement Like this is
how you approach it, you don'tsee color, we treat everybody
the same, and then it justreally didn't go any deeper than
that.
And it wasn't something that wasreally brought up a lot, it was
just kind of like an understoodand there was really no

(26:00):
opportunity to celebratedifferences.
I just didn't see thedifferences which, like I said,
sometimes I don't want to treatanybody as if they're different
than me, but I shouldacknowledge their differences.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
There's a difference, yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah, I think it's so interesting.
I'm going to travel back andthen I'm going to catch up.
But when you were talking abouthow we don't confront the
issues anymore, I think it'sbecause we made it frightening
to have differences and to likeor for somebody to stray from
one of the societal norms thatthat often aren't spoken, are

(26:41):
discussed, but we're holdingpeople accountable for so.
When cancel culture wasintroduced, it really prevented
like real conversations fromhappening, because people were
like I don't know, I don't evenknow what will get me canceled.
And not only can theconversation we're having right
now get us canceled, but theytraveling back you know what I'm

(27:03):
saying.
They going back through theTwitter timeline you know what
I'm saying.
They're pulling up Facebook andgoing back to 2005.
And they're like oh yeah, see,and this clocks, because she
said this when she was 17.
And this clocks to what she'ssaying when she's 30 and so
we're preventing, we're notallowing people to really like
you have to be able to expresssomething so that we can

(27:26):
lovingly redirect.
Yeah, you know, and but I dothink you know the, the I don't
see color thing, that that thathas been like kind of like.
That's kind of like the saferoad that I think a lot of
people took, you know, and notjust white people, not just
white people.
I think a lot of people took,you know, and not just white
people, not just white people.
I think a lot of people tookthat I don't see color meaning
one, I don't want to getcanceled for saying, thinking or

(27:48):
doing the wrong thing, right.
And so that became the blatantstatement until it started
getting challenged and peoplewere like, no, you need to see
me, this big, beautiful blackgirl in front of you.
You're going to see her, youknow, and you're going to
recognize the richness and how Itreasure it.
I treasure being a black womanand I don't want you to not see

(28:11):
that.
But we have to get to a space,there have to be bridge builders
and I realize not everybody iscalled to this work, all right,
and not everybody is called tobe the person that say hey, hey,
baby, hey, baby.
No, I want, I want us all tohave this loving relationship,
but we have to.
We have to allow for the bridgebuilders to do the work, just

(28:32):
like we're allowing for theactivists to do the work, just
like we're allowing for thepeople who are, you know, behind
the scenes doing the work.
Everybody has their place, butwe make people ashamed when
they're like no, I haverelationships with people across
the aisle.
I have conversations withpeople that don't look like me

(28:57):
or think like me or, you know,perceive the world like me and
we now, I think there's a kindof streamline that is like, yeah
, you'll sell out, and it's like, no, yeah, boy, you have to
have it Lord.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, yep, yep, yep.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
And it's interesting, like the bridge builder thing,
because, ruth, I know you weretalking a little bit ago of like
there was a season when, like,all of these people were coming
out of nowhere trying to havethis race conversation with you
because you were the blackperson that they knew.
Maybe you haven't talked tothem for a long time and you
were having to, like, explainall these things and I think

(29:32):
it's important.
It's like the bridge buildersneed to choose that they're
going to be bridge builders.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
I think that's a great point.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Like it can't just be expected that, like just
because I have this Black friend, that they can educate me?

Speaker 1 (29:44):
on everything.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
It has to be this mutual and you may even have to
say I suck at this.
I need help acknowledging thehonesty of where we both are.
It can't just be all of thispressure on the one that you
know white person or a blackperson, like that's just too
much for someone, and I do.

(30:06):
I think it is important, likethe activists, and like there
has to be a bridge builder andthere has to be people that are
patient, that are willing tojust walk slowly with people
Like slavery was 400 years right, and you have the argument like
shouldn't we be over it by now?
Okay, Well, it was 400 years ago, so you can't just get rid of
something that lasted for thatlong.

(30:28):
And it's the same with themindset of the perpetrator.
Like you can't just expectpeople's mindsets to go away
because we're done talking aboutit Like it doesn't work that
way.
But you also can't force people, black or white, to be where
they're not.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
That's you, you make a great point and I, I, that's
one of the things I had to um,accept.
I love what you said.
Like bridge builders need tochoose.
That I, I realized because ofmy upbringing which is not a
normal upbringing for anybody I,my, my world was just not the

(31:09):
same as black or white or anyother race.
I mean I might had a very, veryunique childhood.
I recognize that and I alsorecognize that I I believe god
did that for a reason, like I'mnot, that's not something I,
that's not something I chose,but I choose to accept it, right
, right.
And so I love what you said andI've realized in a lot of

(31:31):
instances, I realized that I dohappen to be the black person
who has more patience than otherblack people, and I have more,
who has more patience than otherblack people, and I have more.
You are I, I mean I, I, I know,I see, I like, I feel that and
I and I do um, because I, Iunderstand, I love what you said
.
You, it's on both sides, like Imean 400 years of slavery and

(31:53):
100, uh, what is, 150 years orso, jim crow, so we're not
talking like it's, it's very,very recent side of the shorter
end where things are like whenyou look at there's, you know
like we're.
It's truly like.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
I mean, you know, we haven't given a name to the time
period we're in right now, butit's not at, we're not fully
there, we're not, we're not whenyou look at the timeline, like
you know there are, these peoplehave done these timelines and
you see, I mean it's a not whatis it?

Speaker 1 (32:23):
19, the voting race I was in 1965.
1965 is when black people gotthe actual right to vote.
What were they were?
They weren't a lot, weren'tthey?
Um the, the laws ofintimidation didn't outlaw the
actual voting right yeah, likeour parents.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
Our parents were little, my mom was 15.
We're connected to that.
Yeah, like we're connected tothat generation yeah, like you
can't.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
So so to your point.
We can't just get rid of thatjust because we were done
talking about it.
There's no done talking aboutit.
We still got people alive wholived it.
We have to talk about it likeyeah and and, but you have to
opt into the conversation, and,and I do think and, and, and, if
people and it has to be aconversation, yeah, it has to be

(33:14):
a conversation which involveslistening, um, on both ends.
And I think I will say, I think,and I I put myself this there
have been a lot of times thatI've been involved in
conversations and it's hard forme to listen to white people.
It's hard for me to hear it,it's hard for me to.
It's like I don't even reallywhat you're saying right now.
You don't, I don't think yourealize how hard it is for me to

(33:36):
hear this and allow you to be,allow you to go through this
process, because it feels likesuch an antiquated process, like
how could you possibly still bethinking the way you're
thinking?
But I have to accept thatthat's the, that's how people,
that's.
I can't hold it against peopleand I think that is.

(33:59):
It's hard for even me, who hasgrown up in a very diverse world
, who's very comfortable withany space that she's in, like
I'm not uncomfortable just aboutanywhere, right, I, even me.
It's difficult sometimes tolisten to the thought process of
some white folks.
I do it.

(34:20):
I do it because I have that.
There's something God has putin me to be able to handle it.
But it's hard and and and and I.
So I really appreciate what yousaid.
As far as you have to, you haveto choose to do it and it takes
time because um time because um, it's ingrained in in both

(34:46):
sides, like there is unlearningto happen on both sides, and a
lot, of, a lot of black peoplestruggle with that, even me,
that I have to unlearn stuff too.
I don't like that because I'mlike I I don't feel like I
should have to unlearn, I feellike white folks should have to
unlearn.
That's, that's the truth, umbut that's not.
You know I'm saying but thatthat's not real.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
I do have to unlearn some stuff well I mean oh, go
ahead no, go ahead I don't even.
It's gone middle middle age youknow yeah, I think, I think you
know.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
You know, right now there's all these memes and all
these conversations about howthe Black women are like we
taking time off.
Ok, like, don't ask us nothing,because you know, we tried and
told you.
Ok, we, we.
But I think it's because theintersectionality of Black women
, in both being a Black personin America and being a woman in
America, like we are so hypervigilant and so hyper aware of

(35:41):
everything because we areoftentimes somewhere close to
the bottom of the totem pole,and so you always have to be
hyper aware of what's happeningaround you and above you because
it's going to impact you,whereas I think, for the higher
you get up the pole, the lessthese things personally impact

(36:02):
you, like you know.
And so I think, when you weretalking, ruth Abigail, and you
were like listening to whitepeople, sometimes it's just like
you still don't get it.
Well, we have spent centuriesgetting it because we had to,
that's right.
Because that was the only waythat we were able to stay one
step ahead and to take care ofour families, who oftentimes we

(36:24):
were left with Right Because ofslavery, because of what
happened after slavery, becauseof what's still happening Right.
We oftentimes are left with thechildren, left with the
families Right, and so theprotective nature in us is I
need to know what's going on inyou, you, you and I need to know
what's going on in thegovernment.
I need to know what's going oneverywhere, because it can hurt

(36:45):
me or I can hurt the people thatI'm close to, and the
hypervigilance has made us veryintuitive, but it has also
really brought us to such ahigher level of stress where we
are also a more vulnerablepopulation to a lot of diseases
and things, because we'reholding so much just by nature

(37:06):
of being a Black woman, and so Ithink that you know, I think
when we talk about this bridge,I think a lot of Black women are
saying I've been walking, I'vebeen building this bridge for a
long time.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Burn out.
Yeah, and I'm burning out.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
And they're like I'm in the middle.
If you want, if you want abridge, come meet me over here.
I'm not, I'm not going pastwhere I am right now and
honestly, I think that's fair.
I think it's fair.
It's like y'all, y'all, we'vedone a good portion of the work

(37:45):
and now we're like we need totake care of ourselves because
we about to.
Some of this has to be relieved.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
I think that we were also talking about this a little
earlier too.
I think there is a real thingaround individualism and
community.
So, like black culture is sucha rich thing and I was saying
with abigail like you, likeblack people can be in a room
together and there's just likethis unspoken like, if you know,

(38:13):
you know, and it's likeeverybody's just kind of on the
same page and you don't have tosay it out loud.
And white people, like I, havetraditions and like culture
within my immediate family, butI don't really have connections
to anything further than that.
Like it really is, you workhard, you, you know every man

(38:35):
for himself and so I don't knowif there's like a gap in being
able to relate to certain things, because that's just not as
value is not the right word,because I think it could be a
value.
It just hasn't been like areality.
Yeah, yeah, I think it's likewhen, when, when one thing

(38:59):
happens to the black community,it is like felt by the whole
community by the whole communityyeah, and it's not to say that
like I don't feel it.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Um, I do, but it's different but not in like a
communal way not in a communalway and not in a way that I'm
ever gonna to really be able tounderstand.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yeah, wow, yeah, I think that's that is a very
profound.
We work like the communalaspect, like just the idea of
community.
The most basic, most basicrequirement of community is
safety right and survival.
Requirement of community issafety right and survival um,

(39:43):
and because that has been thelegacy of black people in
america is safety and survivalum, and community.
Because we have to have that,we have to have community in
order to survive and to feelsafe, and because that, that has
been the, the, that has beenthe journey.
Uh, since we, you know we're,since af, since African slaves
were brought to the country,that has ingrained, it's in our

(40:10):
DNA.
It's not something we can youknow.
It is really interesting how itis, how it is very, I mean, you
know that's.
I had to.
I mean, I think for a minute Ididn't know, because I didn't
grow up the way a lot of Blackpeople at least that I knew did.

(40:30):
I mean, experiences were verydifferent and I had to.
One of the things I had tounlearn was that my Black
experiences, my Black experience, wasn't valid because it wasn't
the norm, and it wasn't until Igot a little older that I
recognized that, even though itwasn't, I didn't grow up like

(40:51):
what I saw or knew of at thetime, most Black people had
grown up, my connection to theBlack experience was just as
deep and and this is um I, Icouldn't have told you that.
I think that the what, where ithit me honestly, was 2016.
There was a lot of I.

(41:11):
Just I had this moment, um, andyou know when, when, um, it was
when Philando Castile.
I may have told you this, megan, yeah, I definitely told you
this because, um, um, we, you,we were on the bridge.
So me and Megan, uh, were onthe bridge together and the

(41:33):
bridge protest for um at 2016.
And and what?
What triggered it for me?
The reason I went was because,um, that you know, it's like a
couple of days before that Ithink it was a Thursday Philando
Castile being killed, and it,for me, brought up, it just
triggered my, the realities ofmy brother, who I don't.

(41:53):
There was a lot of similaritiesthat I saw with them and that
broke me and I remember textinguh, meg and our friend Brittany,
and we started talking and Ican't remember who found the,
the protest, but, um, we foundit.
We ended up showing up tosomething.
We didn't even know what it was, uh, and you know, and we, we

(42:18):
were, we were there and it wasthe first time that I had done
something about just I hadphysically participated in
activist movement because of myconnection to the Black
experience, because I stoppedbelieving that my experience was
invalid, because it wasn't thenorm, and I was like, no, I'm,

(42:41):
I'm as black as any other blackperson and I'm black enough, I'm
, I'm, and I'm out here likebecause I'm pissed off too and I
get to be pissed off and and Ithink I just I that for those
are things.
But it's really interesting.
It took me a minute, you know,it took me a minute because I
had to unlearn it, like I had tounlearn that my experience,

(43:02):
like all black experiences,aren't the same and it doesn't,
it doesn't disqualify yourblackness, like it's interesting
.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
You're saying that that's bringing back memories
for me and I'm like OK, so whydid I go?
Hmm, you know, and yeah, Ithink there's a part of it
that's like for the biggerexperience.
But like, really, it was like Iwanted to be with you and Brit,
like you guys were who wereimportant to me, yep, but, like

(43:31):
you're thinking about, it waslike all of these other people
are important to me, but I'mlike the two people in front of
me are important to me and Iwant to go support them for a
bigger cause.
But I don't, I don'tnecessarily know if I was
thinking about the bigger,bigger picture, which now, you
know, I'm just kind ofreflecting on it as we're
talking, but also I don't eventhink I've told you this like I

(43:54):
was nervous the whole time.
Oh yeah, like I was.
I was just like, oh my gosh,like what am I actually doing?
This is crazy, you know.
And there got to a point where Iwas like I think I've, I think
I've hit my limit, like I'm.
It's getting to.
You know, like when it startedgetting um, I don't know, there
was a minute where, like I thinkthe police and Devonta Hill
were starting to do a standoffand I was like I don't think I

(44:16):
can make it.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
they started started beating on the car that came up.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you know I could look atthat and be like, oh, I didn't
really mean what I said, or likeI could shame that.
But I also think it's like youknow what, but like I did it,
afraid, and I didn't know allthat was going to come with that
, right, like you can't predicthow something's going to go.

(44:45):
You can't always predict howyou're going to respond in a
certain situation, cause I cansit here and been like I would
have been beaten on the truckwith them.
You know, in reality I was likeI'm getting nervous about where
this is going to go.
Um, but I do think for maybe,white people that are struggling
.
It's like if you are nervous,like, do it anyways.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
Like just do it anyways and then process through
what made you nervous.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
That's really good, you know.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
And like, if it is maybe like I don't know what I'm
trying to think, like maybe itis a reason that would maybe be
offensive, we'll process throughit anyways, up, process through
it anyways and then next timeyou can make a better decision
and like not necessarily betterdecision, but you can make the

(45:32):
decision um more purposely yeah,that's good, that's good,
that's really good yeah, you umyou.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
It's funny and I'll say this and then quita um I, as
you were saying, likereflecting on how you felt, like
you felt nervous, I felt proud,I felt proud.
I think I felt proud too.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
That's fair, but I was really just like aware, I
was just like I can't believeI'm here.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
It's crazy.
Well, I had that too.
I mean, it was a wildexperience.
It was unlike any otherexperience I'd had, certainly up
to that point.
But, um, but I was like man,like I, we were very green, we
had never done it before, I'dnever done a protest, didn't
even realize it was a protesttill we started marching towards
the bridge and then we werelike, are we?

(46:26):
We didn't, we had no idea, wewere so ignorant.
It was crazy, we, we really.
We were dumb, really, andbabies, we were that's funny but
, but.
But that that sense of pride wasjust like welling up inside of
me, like and and it's funny I Ifelt protected also, because I
was like we are all here, we not.

(46:46):
Nothing is about to happen ifit don't happen to all of us.
If it happened to one of us, ithappened to all of us and that's
what that's literally, and Ithink that is such a um, going
back to the communal feeling,the communal thing, that's such
a very it's a key element of howwe were, uh, how black, a lot
of black people.

(47:07):
I know how, how I was broughtup.
If it happens to one, ithappens to all, like this is
this is a us thing, this is a wething, like you know, I don't
have, we don't, you know, familyman.
we don't talk to each other foronce, but once a year, but we
ride together Like hey causethis we here like it's not.
I don't have to, I don't haveto know the intimate things

(47:30):
about you.
Just I just know we'reconnected.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
Yeah, and I have to know the intimate things about
you.
Just, I just know we'reconnected.
Yeah, it's like just that thereis this connection.
It's a connection I was sayinglike from the outside, looking
in, like it's I mean, it's justnoticeable and it's hard to put
language to it.
I also think it's funny withthe um, the protest too is some
of the pictures that came out onthe media made it look like
some of the guys that like hadthe flags and like the the
bandanas, were like super angryand like violent.

(47:58):
But that's not what it was itwas passion I mean anger right
like righteous righteous angerright but not like destructive
anger, which I think is like aspin that gets put on protesters
a lot um.
But yeah, it was justinteresting because I'm like no,
nobody was destroying anything.
It was passion, it was purpose,and so it is funny just how

(48:21):
things our perspective wouldimpact how we viewed that
picture.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Very true, that's interesting.
This was also when I gave RuthAbigail her new name, ruth the
Revolutionary, which I stillrefer to her as because that's
interesting.
This was also when I gave ruthabigail her new name, ruth the
revolutionary, um, which I stillrefer to her as because that's
what she is.
Okay, okay, I am arevolutionary.
Okay, that is, that is ruthabigail.
Okay, okay, after, after thatmoment, she became about about

(48:48):
that life like she was like shejumped all the way in yeah, and
I love it.
I love it.
Yeah, I think you know, megan,you said something earlier when
you were talking about how, whenpeople have like as a community
, like when we're thinkingcommunity wise, that, like you
don't often think, are thatblack people are very community

(49:09):
oriented and I think mostminorities are, but how, like
those, you, you experiencethings more individually rather
than communally.
And I remember I was indivinity school and I remember I
was talking with one of myfriends.
She was white and I was talkingwith her and she was like she
was like you're really likeyou're really have like strong

(49:32):
allegiances to your church, likeI was like my church, I was
like you know, I'm going backstrong allegiances to your
church, like I was like mychurch.
I was like you know, I'm goingback home to be at my church and
she was like I don't have that.
She was like I don't have likea strong sense of like I gotta
be at this particular church.
She said I feel some ties to mydenomination, you know, but I,
you know I could move and I, Iremember thinking I at the time

(49:56):
I didn't think it was adifference in race.
I was like, oh okay, faith mustlook differently.
You know, in some aspects maybedenominations, because my
church is, was uh, founded likethe founder is the pastor.
So you know, like we've beenwith her, you know, you know she
comes from a biggerdenomination.
But I look back at it now andI'm like I do also think that

(50:18):
some of it is like surroundingthese ideas of race, because
when we think of, when I thinkof church, I think of a safe
space.
You know, I think that that'skind of like a communal
understanding of church as wellfor black people.
It's like, no, my church, thisis my church, like, and I have
built identity here.

(50:38):
I've built like a place here.
I know, I know how to come inhere and operate, I know who the
people are, I know what I'mgiving and I know what I'm
getting from this space.
And I think that when we, uh,when we talk about that fear of
difference sometimes, sometimeswe don't know how to communicate
with each other because wedon't know the value of what, of

(50:59):
how other people are valuingthings Right.
So when white people talk to usabout church, right, like you
don't know all of the ways thatI value that place, because it's
not the same, it doesn't alwaystranslate the same across those
boundaries.
And even when we think aboutthings that are more social

(51:21):
justice oriented, when a Blackperson is killed, especially
when they're killed by police orwhen they're killed in an
altercation that involves awhite person, I don't think that
it's not being the value ofthat to a community, like it's

(51:41):
not just you know, oh, a blackperson died.
Like that's not why, that's notthe only grief point, it's that
could have been my brother.
That could have been my uncle.
You know.
That could have been my cousin.
That could have been my brother.
That could have been my uncle.
You know that could have beenmy cousin.
That could have been thestudents that I mentor and work
with.
You know, like that.
Whenever I heard about a youngman dying, whether they were
running in the neighborhood orwhether they were walking to

(52:03):
school or walking from the gasstation or whatever, immediately
in my mind I see flashes oflike you know, students, I see
my cousins, I see my dad, I seemy uncle, you know, and I'm just
like it could it could havevery easily have been somebody
that I'm close to and it hitsdeep.
It is not the loss of thatperson, it is the continued

(52:28):
threat that it can be any one ofus any day, and that we're
still living underneath that,that veil of fear of how do we
stop this?
Because it seems, because itcontinues to happen, and it
continues to happen as such, assuch a frequency, like it hasn't
died down, you know, like ithas moments where it seems calm,

(52:49):
but when it picks back up, it'salmost like it's like have we?
It seems calm, but when itpicks back up, it's almost like
it's like have we?
Have we progressed any in thecycle of combating this where we
don't have to feel afraid?
And even like when we weretalking about how we talk about
race in our homes.
It's because of stuff like thisthat we have to like, because
you know, like you cannot seeyour children out there unaware

(53:15):
yeah, they don't know.
You don't know what they'regoing to encounter when they're
not with you, and so I just hadthat thought about.
You know, we're notexperiencing things the same,
but that's why it's importantthat you are having real
conversations so that we canrelearn empathy and compassion.
Yeah, so that, and those arethe things that allow us to talk
across the board, because, likeMegan said, megan didn't have

(53:37):
those deep feelings of couldhave been my brother, could have
been this, but she said thepeople in front of me, my
empathy and compassion is whatis connecting me to them, which
is connecting me to this cause,and you'll grow as you go.
You have to take the steps tomake sure you are actually
hearing the people who arespeaking about what their

(53:59):
experiences are.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
That's right.
I'm thinking a little bit too.
I don't necessarily havethoughts associated to this, but
it's just a thought that hascome up as we're talking of the
communal aspect and I think Isee that I don't want to say it
like in such a general term, butyou see a lot more of that with
, like american military, withcertain families, like I think
that's like I'm just trying toassociate it.

(54:24):
it's like when something happenswith that, it seems like
there's more of a communalapproach, interesting, like the
marines of being able, yeah,like of being able to relate to,
like if there's a fallensoldier, like there's a mass
grieving, that happens with that.
That's actually really goodit's just one of the because I

(54:46):
think you know, so many peoplecan relate to having loved ones
sent off to war and just theexperience of them returning
home, like there's a sharedexperience there that I think
ties people together that wedon't have with black people
yeah okay, you, this is okay.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
Well, now my brain is just I've never look at her,
it's so going I've never madethe connection that is so
interesting because, uh, yeah,like the, even the history of
the military being um or beingelevated at sports games and and
um, that that's not, that's afairly new phenomenon, like
that's not that hadn't been thecase forever, um, but that, that

(55:30):
, that the, uh, the, the um, thetrauma of war and and the fact
that you know kind of these, the, the actual uh countries of the
country being in war, has has asimilar um effect for, uh, I

(55:51):
see that right for for whitefamilies and I'm supposed to say
white family, I don't thinkit's.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
I'm not excluding black people, I'm not limited to
no just white families, but Ithink it's like one of the most
tangible examples I could thinkof.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Well, and that and it's.
I've never made the connectionbecause this idea of the trauma
of war, it's like it's the sameright for for black, for a lot
of, for most people in, mostblack people in America have
been a part of war right.
It's the same right For a lotof for most people in, but most
black people in America havebeen a part of war right.
It's been an internal war, it'sbeen a consistent, if you will,

(56:24):
civil war, not in the sense ofthe historic one, but every day
right is a fight, and so thatmentality of survival of a fight
, and so that's that, thatmentality of survival of a
fallen soldier, like the idea of, you know, George Floyd being a
fallen soldier, that that's areally powerful motif.

(56:44):
I think.
Yeah, and, and I've never, I'venever, I've never made that
connection like really, and itdoes.
There is something you know,you think about, why there's
such grief and respect for theAmerican military it's because
you have these people put theirlives on the line to make sure

(57:05):
that we're safe.
And I think that there is aconnection and disconnection in
the Black community right Onthat front.
But also there's a generationaldivide there, because you'll
talk to older black people whohave that same passion and
devotion to the country for thecountry's sake.

(57:25):
And I'm not generalizing, I'mjust based on the conversations
I've had with people ofdifferent generations.
Younger generations don't havethe conversations I've had, do
not.
People of different generations, younger generations don't have
the conversations I've had, donot show that same devotion to
the country, but devotion to mypeople, or allegiance,
necessarily.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it'sallegiance to my people, right,
but not allegiance to thecountry.

(57:45):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Yeah, interesting.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
But anyway, I love that you made that connection.
I think it's I've neverconnected.
I think it's a great way tounderstand, like you know, why
that is so deep.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
Or a way to reference , like empathy, like if you're
having trouble finding empathythis is a good example of like,
but have you felt it with this?
Well, like that's, it's just tobe able to associate.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
You can't just force empathy on someone.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
Yeah, yeah, that's really good, you can't just make
someone feel something they'venever felt, but you have to be
able to frame it with somethingelse.
You have to be able to find acommon denominator somehow in
order to build empathy.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Yes, for sure you can have.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
You can have sympathy right like I can sit there and
be like, oh, I really hate that,but I don't know how that feels
yeah, um it also.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
I mean now it sounds like it could also be like when
a when a cop dies, you know, um,yeah, that's saying kind of
like that, that you know kind ofback the blue, um, uh, you know
movement there is.
There is a much more communalapproach with those, yeah that's
interesting, um, and so I Ilove that, I think it's and it's

(59:07):
interesting, I love that, Ithink that's a really great, uh,
starting point for for folkswho might have have trouble.
But it's like, okay, what, whatin you grieves when, uh, a
fallen soldier, whether it's, um, you know, a police officer or
somebody in the military, what,what it, what, what is grieving

(59:30):
in you and why?
And then being able to excuseme, being able to then begin to
transfer why it might feel thatway for black people, when you
know when, when somebody who youknow, when, a when a 25 year
old black man is once again, youknow, thrown in jail because he

(59:52):
had a couple grams of weed,right Like, or is, has been in
jail.
You know, he's been in jail,you know, for 25 years for
nonviolent crime, right, there's, there is a grief there, and
you know and it's like can we,can we, can we begin to

(01:00:13):
understand where that comes from?
if you can locate where it comesfrom for you, can we begin to
transfer that understandingbegin to to where it might be
located for black people?

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
and then I think, really think about like, because
in war there's a clear enemyright and it's a clear enemy
that you are unified against.
Begin to think about what, howblack people in this country
feel, and what sides iseverybody on?

(01:00:50):
I ain't going to name nothing,but I want you to consider, like
, really consider like, who areblack people having to contend
with, and not just black people,minorities, disenfranchised
people, people who come fromlower income homes,
socioeconomic statuses who arewe all fighting against?

(01:01:11):
Because there's not, there'snot always a clear enemy, but
sometimes it does get named, andso I think you would understand
better if you, if you thought,thought those things through,
like if you take that warparallel and then be like well
dang, who they have war with?
Is it me?
Is it, is it this community?
Is it, is it people in power?

(01:01:32):
Who who's the war with?
Because there's somethingworking against us, and I think
we have all.
I think that we have tried toname those things, but it
doesn't click until peoplereally think through it for
themselves and say, okay, I cansee, if I had to name something,

(01:01:54):
it would probably be this, andthen continue with that that's
really.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
I love the point of the enemy.
Like all wars have enemies.
You're fighting againstsomething naming, being able to
name the enemy, who you perceivethe enemy to be.
Um it, that it's, it's, it's.
It's tough and I again, and Ithink, it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
It doesn't have to be a person or an entity.
No, a lot of it is.
It's these ideals, you know,like a lot of the enemy, a lot
of the, a lot of the enemy isbeing encapsulated in.
Black men are dangerous, right,or that if they show up looking
a certain way, talking acertain way, right, it's the
ideology of that.

(01:02:44):
That has been.
And then I want you to thinkwhy is that?
Why is that a thing Like?
Why did it become a thing thatblack men who wear hoodies or
who are walking around at nightor whatever, right, when you see
different types of people doingthe same things, why did that
become a thing?
What institutionalized thatthing like?

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
but yeah, yeah and I I think the commute, like going
back to this communal aspect,seems to be a very core part of
this conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
That's where my brain is going.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
I'm not sure what my question is.
I'm just I'm really processingat the moment, and so I don't
I'm not even sure what I'm goingto say is appropriate or not,
but this is safe, so we're goingto process through it.
So we're going to processthrough it.
We've talked a lot like thereare strengths to the communal

(01:03:43):
aspects, but then, like, maybethere are some weaknesses.
Like in this situation, like,could it be flopped to where I
don't know what I'm trying tosay?
I don't know what I'm trying tosay, no, like when we're trying
to get to know.
Is it like, is the communalmind frame hindering us from

(01:04:04):
being able to look at theindividual in front of us?
Because, like, we can groupthings together as like all
white people, all black people,which is not necessarily wrong,
but does that hinder us frombeing able to look at the person
in front of us who may begetting?
I don't know if I'm making anysense.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
No, I get it.
No, no, no, you're makingperfect sense, I mean, I think.
I think this is kind oftriggering, going back to a
principle that I think is reallyimportant.
Like there's a differencebetween realities and truth, and
I think we like to conflate thetwo.
Right, we interchange this, butthe reality is there's

(01:04:39):
realities Like there are thingsthat are real, that we
experienced, that are valid, andthen there's truth, and truth
is constant and unchanging.
A reality can change, and sowhen, to your point, the reality
is we experience these thingsas a community because of a

(01:05:06):
tainted history in this country.
That's the reality.
The truth is that we are notthe same.
We are individuals.
We do have differentexperiences, but our current
reality doesn't doesn't?
The current reality doesn'talways connect to the truth, and

(01:05:30):
so we have to learn how toexist in both and allow for both
.

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
It is okay to admit your reality and then, but prop
up the truth, and I think that'skind of what I'm hearing and
try to find it, becausesometimes, like you can say
things out loud and finally hearit for the first time, you know
like some stuff can live in ourheads for a long time and then,
when you say it, you're like Idon't actually think that's

(01:05:57):
correct, like we have to havepermission to be able to find
the truth within our realities.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Absolutely yeah, and it's a process.
It is a process.
You know, I'm also thinking,like, when you talk about
community, like, just obviously,this conversation is about race
, but I do think, because we'reall Jesus followers, I think
it's important to also includethis into the conversation,

(01:06:24):
because that is also a community, a communal experience.
It is intended to be that right, christians, the church, jesus
followers, we exist in community.
We're not supposed to exist onan individual basis.
And so, going back to what,what, what Queen was talking
about, there's no, let me, letme I don't know if I I'm going

(01:06:45):
to fumble that, I it, it, it is,it is a similar.
I think it gets messy and muddywhen you have these realities
that are race-based but there isa connection, faith-based, with
different races, right?
So there are these sometimescompeting, communal realities

(01:07:12):
that you have to contend with inorder to, um, get to the truth,
to your point, meg, right and Ithink this is part of this type
of conversation is you havethree people, um, who have had
different experiences in thecontext, with the context of
race, and you also have threepeople who have committed

(01:07:35):
themselves to a Jesus way oflife, and those are, for a lot
of people really hard things toconnect and you know we could do
a whole other hour on wherethat three hours probably on,
like how muddy that is.
But I just I didn't want toleave the conversation without I

(01:07:55):
can send to a part two if youwant to do a part two.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
I might need myself for a part two.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
Because we've been talking for a minute.
We have man Like I mean we have.
But I think it's been reallygood and I think it's been a
great entry into theconversation that we could go on
forever.
We haven't touched, I mean, wejust literally have just
scratched the surface like yeah,no, for real yeah, but this was
good this is good, yeah, goodstart.

(01:08:24):
Good, yeah, great start.
So, meg, thank you for you knowbeing my white friend.

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
Yep, yep, thanks for being my to it.
You're my white friend.
Thanks for being my blackfriend.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Of course, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
Happy to Happy to be so.
Yeah, this has been good.
We might need a part two to it.
We might need a part two.
What do you think, queda?
We do.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
I think so.
I was looking over at our shownotes and I was like lord, we
ain't so.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
I don't think we hit none of that?

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
no, we really did it.
This is a series.
Yeah, it's a it might be.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Oh, I'm down, let's do it because I didn't even get
my funny story.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
Oh, you didn't get your funny story.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
You, oh, you didn't even get your funny story you
know, we didn't really tell alot of stories it's a lot of
stories worth it yeah, uh,friends.
Okay, we definitely forgot todo it at the beginning of that
we always do, we always do okay,well, hopefully you stuck
around because this was a reallygood conversation.
All right, but we want toencourage you on today to like

(01:09:35):
to share and to subscribe.
Yes, okay, stop playing with usand become part of this
community.
Absolutely.
Don't just play on thesidelines.
Get in the game.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Okay, make sure you like, don't just be individuals.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Okay, become part of the community.
Okay, it doesn't matter ifyou're black or white, latino,
asian.
We want all of y'all to becomepart of the community where
we're having real conversationsand unlearning together.
So like, share, subscribe, sendit to a friend, hit the

(01:10:09):
notification bell so you knowwhen these episodes are coming
man alright y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
I think that coming man All right y'all.
I think that's enough for today.
We will see y'all.
Let's keep unlearning togetherso that we can experience more
freedom, Peace, Bye, y'all.
Thank you once again forlistening to the Unlearned
Podcast.
We would love to hear yourcomments and your feedback about

(01:10:35):
the episode.
Feel free to follow us onFacebook and Instagram and to
let us know what you think.
We're looking forward to thenext time when we are able to
unlearn together to move forwardtowards freedom.
See you then.