Unlearning Parenting: The Elder Millennial Perspective

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
hello everybody, and welcome once again to the
unlearned podcast.
I'm your host, ruth abigail akara, and this is the podcast
that's helping you gain thecourage to change your mind so
that you can experience morefreedom.
And I'm here with a veryspecial guest, miss Erica Ramsey

(00:27):
.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Okay, hello, because, because it used to be Johnson.
It used to be for a long time,yes, for a very long time, and
it is no longer are we wait?

Speaker 1 (00:36):
are we doing the double thing?
Are we doing, erica?
What are we doing?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
some things I can't say publicly, but what we are
doing is just know is ramsey.
But if you see johnson justknow somewhere it ain't quite
ramsey but it's going to beramsey amen, I understood one
thing.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
I refuse.
I was like one thing I'm notdoing.
I'm not changing my gmail,which is smith, and I'm not
doing that because too manythings connected to it.
So it'd be fine.
But like you know, new stuffwill have new name it's gonna
have new name.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, I'm saying okay , old stuff might.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah , yeah, we don't, we don't, it's
just, that's a lot, that's alot.
That's what it is, yeah amen,okay, good all right so erica
ramsey, uh, welcome to thepodcast, my friend.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Thank you, glad to be here.
Yes exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
It's very exciting um .
So we're in this series, as youall know, unlearning parenting
and this is a really, really funuh conversation.
We're gonna have different uhpeople on here, different
different conversations and sofar we have had a couple um, and
so if you haven't, if youhaven't had those already, check
those out.
They're already on um on theplatforms.

(01:42):
But this particular one I'mvery excited about first.
First of all, me and Erica haveknown each other for a very
long time.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Very very, very long time, very long time, yes, very
long time.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yes, we have much history, let's see.
We met in 2000.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
She's going to do it, isn't she?
Yeah, she's going to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, we met in 2005, .

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Because why was I about to say 10?
No, 2005.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, 2005.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Something like that.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Everybody can count.
We don't need to add the years.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
No, we don't, we just know 2005.
So it's been a while, and so wewent to college together.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
And Erica's, older than me, so that you know she
graduated.
Here she go Now.
See, we was on the straight andnarrow route and here you just
took.
You had to take that left, Idid.
You took a left, I did.
That's all right.
Yes, I am Not by much, though?
No, not at all Not by much atall, although you could.
You know there are.
There were moments where shedidn't know that.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Um and see, see, see, see, uh Joy, how much editing
we doing on this right here.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
I love it y'all.
This is going to be good.
I'm so excited.
Oh, this is going to be fun.
So we've known each other for along time.
And, Erica, why don't you justupdate?
I just want to share a littlebit about yourself with the
people and update them on thenewest parts of your life.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, sure, so I don't necessarily know.
The people know the oldestparts of my life, so
everything's probably new.
That's fair, fair point ohyou're sleeping on me.
But yeah, so I'm Erica Ramsey.
I own a company called LeapBranding and PR.
We do strategic marketing formany different corporations.

(03:24):
We started in the entertainmentindustry.
We moved into the legal fieldrepresenting lawyers not
representing lawyers, but doingmarketing and branding for
lawyers and now we work withhospital systems doing strategic
marketing and helping them toset up their B2B organizations.
So we do that.
We actually have formedentities for them from beginning

(03:46):
to end.
We do naming, we do all thatkind of stuff.
Wow.
We do all of the marketresearch.
We even do the financialprojections.
We set up the service lines.
We do a lot.
So it's a fun thing.
And outside of that, which isvery time consuming, I also am
married to a wonderful,wonderful man, ricky, and we

(04:06):
have a beautiful son, micah Yay.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Hey Ricky, and hey Micah for future.
So how long have you beenmarried and how long have you
been a mother?

Speaker 2 (04:18):
I've been married for two years.
Now.
We're in our second year and Ihave been.
Well, we're in our second year,I should say, and I have been a
mother for five months.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
He'll be six months next week, so six months, okay,
so this is where it gets good.
So you became a wife and amother very, very, very quickly.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Oh, my gosh, yes, so so first of all gosh.
This is so public right.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
So what do you say, what do you not say?

Speaker 2 (04:44):
But uh, but uh, this is so public right.
So what do you say?
What do you not say?
But, but it's just me.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
You don't worry about it, it's just me.
It's just me, yeah, sure, sure,sure.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
So so we, yeah, so we got married and it's this
really big, exciting thing andboth of us love to travel and we
had all these plans fortraveling and we had decided we
were going to take up skiing andall these winter sports,
because you know, we like watersports but not on the water, so
it's like winter sports.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Another form of water .

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Interesting, so we're like, OK yeah it's really
interesting.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
So we had planned this whole trip to Aspen, all
these different things we weregoing to be doing for our
anniversary actually that year,and a couple months later, you
know, we realized no one wasgoing skiing on the anniversary.
We were actually going to benear a hospital or fresh out,
and so that's what happened.
It was very quick, but you knowwhat, sometimes it's the best

(05:38):
way to do it right, because ifwe had to plan for it with both
of our schedules?
My husband's a major in theArmy.
He's finishing up his last yearbefore he retires after 20
years in, and both of us areextremely busy.
We are in two locations A lotof times.
We have two homes.
We're back and forth near baseand then back in our home base,
and so it's yeah, we would havenot planned to have one, and

(06:02):
what an unfortunate thing,because who knows if the next
one would have been Micah, itmight've been something else.
So we're grateful.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
I love that perspective.
You said it's very possiblethat you wouldn't have.
I mean, when do you find theright time to have a kid?

Speaker 2 (06:18):
I have heard a lot of people say they plan.
Then I've heard a lot of peoplesay, even like, you can't plan
for it.
So you know, I know couplesthat go into it and like, ok,
we're going to do this, and thenwe're going to do this, and
then we're going to plan we'regoing to have a kid at this time
and it's going to work likethis.
And even when you plan likethat, there's so many things you
still are not going to be ableto plan for.
So it's so much that happens inlife.

(06:38):
It's just like at some.
I mean, I equate it to I was sobusy working at a point in my
life that I really missed thesunlight.
You know I was up until night.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Oh, yes, I remember, yes.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, I was sleeping like three, four hours a night,
and so I just never was in thevisible sun, so I was always
working so, and so you want totake a break, right?
You know I got this projectcoming up.
I go, oh, we got to onboardthis client, oh, we got this,
you know coming up, kind ofthing, and you never take, it's
never going to be a right time.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
You have to choose a time, like commit to a time,
basically yeah, I think you'reright and I, um, I find myself
in that same mind frame, so youknow so, because my son came
differently, he came with the,with the man.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Um, and so still quickly, very quickly, day one,
day one Um and so, uh, we so it.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
but we, you know, we, we talk about having more
children and it's like in myhead it's like and when and how
right?
I mean it's, it's real like,it's a real thing, it's a real
conversation.
You are very both of us arevery passionate about the work
we do, right, and I want to talka little bit for a minute just

(07:56):
to because, like a lot of women,I mean, again, we won't talk
about the exact number of years.
But you know, we, we wereobviously met in 2005.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
So you can figure this out at college, right?
So we are not, you know.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
let's just say we're not close to college age anymore
.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Okay, my doctor says I'm a few years past 19.
I go with that.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Excellent, that means I'm just under that Perfect.
Okay, great, so so just a fewyears past 19 so yeah we are um,
a lot of women are starting tostart families around the age we
are now like that's becoming atrend right right, and I think
one of the unique things aboutthat is we have been single for

(08:40):
the majority of our life, solike without anything connected
to us, right, um, and so we'vebeen moving in that, in that
rhythm, in that way.
And then all of a sudden boom,you know, husband, child, like
Whoa.
Okay, I want to talk a littlebit about the before and after.
Like how do you make thatadjustment?

(09:00):
And like, how are you makingthat adjustment?
And what was your life rhythm,more so before family and now
after family?

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, that's really interesting.
I'm probably going to answerthese questions, maybe out of
order, but hopefully I'll touchon all of them eventually.
Sure, it won't be long.
I don't even remember what Iasked you.
It won't be long, no go ahead.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Oh my gosh, yes, this is how.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
So I think you know I'm obviously a woman of faith
and so you pray over somethingfor so long, right?
So I for me, specifically in mylife, I was very structured a
little, you know, juststructured in how I wanted
things done.
I was very disciplined and Idid not want to have a child, if
at all possible, before I wasin a marriage because I,

(09:48):
honestly, was not home enough.
I knew that it was a greatresponsibility and I just didn't
want I don't want to say itlike this, but in my single
years I felt like that would bemore of a burden than a blessing
because it would just be a lotof work.
And I have seen so many womenmanage it, carry it, master it,
excel at it and just are amazingat being single moms.

(10:11):
I just didn't feel I was ontheir level.
I can't do it like that.
It looked tough to me, so Ididn't particularly want that.
So I always prayed for a spouse, a God-fearing, wonderful
kingdom husband.
And so when God allowed Rickyand I to meet, and, just you

(10:34):
know, we entered each other'slives, it was really interesting
because it was like, wow, thisis great.
And the windows are open, andthe doors are open and just, oh,
we're going to do this, we'regoing to do that.
Just the sky's the limit.
And you know, even thoughyou're later in life, right and
not late, in life just later,yeah, just later.
And so, even though you're laterin life, you're like I can do

(10:54):
it now, like, yeah, let's do it,let's do it.
All this stuff I'm waiting todo a balloon deflating.
It's like it took me andeverybody's process is different
when they find out that they'repregnant.
But it took me four months toprocess it Because I had so many

(11:17):
plans for marriage that I hadliterally not planned for
pregnancy or for having a child,literally not plan for
pregnancy or for having a child.
I only prepare for marriage andunderstanding that one can come
with the other, but it doesn'talways come with the other,
right, because I know so manypeople that have struggled
within marriage and even someoutside of marriage who have

(11:38):
struggled to have children, andso for me it wasn't an
expectation like, oh, back inthe day.
It was like, oh, you getmarried, you have kids.
We've lived a little longer now.
We've seen that that doesn'talways happen like that.
So I did not have that beliefthat, oh, we're married and,
boom, going to have a kid.
That is our reality.

(11:58):
However, that wasn't previouslymy belief.
It is now my beliefs.
It is now so.
I think that, in saying that, ittook me a minute right to
really understand how my lifewas going to be different.
So one of the amazing thingsthat happened and someone just

(12:21):
brought this to my attention theother day is that I winded up
having it wasn't amazing at thetime, but I wound up having to
decrease my workload immediately, because during the first
trimester, they want you to rest, and obviously I was getting
four or five hours of sleep eachnight, but never eight.
What is eight hours?

(12:41):
Who does that?
People who do that?
I don't know.
I don't know how you do it.
So I was never getting eighthours of sleep, and so you have
to for the sensitivity of thattime of pregnancy, me being
later in years, having my firstchild.
And so I went through thatprocess and I had to decrease my
workload, which was the firstthing, and then it just started

(13:04):
to become a spiral right, or anunraveling, or an unlearning for
this podcast of what my lifeused to be and what it used to
look like.
There, never to me and Ricky andI have a really wonderful
relationship, but there, neverto me was a threat of my life
being significantly differentbecause I was married.

(13:24):
Me was a threat of my lifebeing significantly different
because I was married, becausehe and I are so similar, we're
so similar that it's easy and Isay we're different enough.
Someone told me this abouttheir husband and it was just
fit us.
I was like that's so perfect.
We're similar enough that it'seasy, but we're different enough
that it's fun.
So we got a few differences.
That makes it fun, but we're sosimilar it's just easy going.
Yes, so I never had a threat ofhaving this significant change

(13:46):
because we were married.
It was easy, right, but withpregnancy and with a baby coming
, that was significant.
So we have a beautiful home andit's full.
It was full at the time.
So to be like it felt like a lotof things were being taken

(14:28):
right.
So my autonomy at work becauseI couldn't work as much the
ownership of my body, because itwas starting to go through
things.
I didn't understand thepositioning of things at home
that I had had there for so longbecause it was just easy and
convenient for me to have thingssituated certain ways.

(14:48):
All of that had to shift.
We're not just talking aboutlike spaces for a nursery.
I mean like okay, now we needthe pantry, like finished and
fixed.
Now we need the closets builtout a little differently because
we need to put things indifferent places that they
weren't before.
And so all of these neatlyplaced and organized and focused
things became not so neatlyplaced and organized.

(15:10):
So the house got a little justmessy for a minute and I had to
understand that while we were intransition and putting things
there, some stuff had to go intostorage until we found a place
where it would go.
And then it was the what islife going to be like being a
military family for another year, where we don't always have
autonomy of our time, because myhusband's a major in the army,

(15:34):
so he's a you know officer andhe has different things that
he's required to do with that,and he's got to do it, and so
he's a commissioned officer, andso for me it was like, okay, so
how am I going to do this onthe times when he's not able to
be present with us?
And I went through a tough spellbecause when you're single, I'm

(15:58):
a very giving person and I leadwith my heart, I think, a lot
of times, so I'm always focusedon other people.
I wasn't a selfish singleindividual.
I was always helping someone.
I was always doing differentthings.
That was just my thing.
But when we had our son, orwhen we found out we were
pregnant with him, it just feltlike a lot of liberty was taken.

(16:20):
I knew I couldn't go where Iwanted to go.
When I wanted to go there,there would always be, from now
to the end of my life where arewe going to do with the baby?
Is he coming with us?
Is he this, Is he that?
And so there was always thatthing where I honestly felt like
that big, bright future rightOf traveling and this and Aspen,

(16:41):
I felt it almost diminish andit was hard because that's not
true.
That's not true, but it was hardbecause what I saw wasn't what
I was getting ready toexperience.
So, all the way through datingand engagement and the wedding

(17:01):
and the marriage, I still see it.
But as soon as we got pregnant,it was like dream snatched
dream snatching pregnancy.
And it was hard because I madeit all the way to that point,
having prayed all that time,right, and you get to the point
where you haven't and it's like,yeah, but it's not going to
look like what you thought andthat was that was so you would

(17:21):
think.
To put this in perspective,sometimes people meet their
spouse and it's like, oh, thatdoesn't like what you thought.
Sometimes you get your housewith your son or didn't like
what I thought.
Sometimes you're like like allthat matched.
Yes, right, I didn't have aspecific vision for that, but if
I wanted something, what I hadwas exactly you know what I
wanted.
So I didn't have an issue withit.

(17:41):
But this did not fit.
It didn't fit so it was reallydifficult.
So my life now, ironically,with Micah is very different.
And his first couple of monthshere, so fast forward through
the pregnancy.
His first couple of months herewere challenging.
We had a difficult delivery,but his first couple of months

(18:02):
here were challenging justbecause I was in the middle of
it and every it was weirdbecause I didn't have.
I was really sensitive thosefirst four months of pregnancy
to what was going to happen.
When I was in the thick of itit was like I was sensitive to
the fact.
I told I knew this was like.
I knew this is what this wasgoing to look like.

(18:23):
I knew this was going to behard.
I knew there might be timeswhere I was going to have to
shoulder this alone.
I knew this, like it was all ofthese things.
Ok, I knew this was going tohappen and it was tough.
And Ricky was able to takepaternity leave, so he was home,
you know, for 12 weeks, whichwas great.
He was tremendous help, but hewas tremendous help.

(18:46):
But then, of course, work youhave to go back to work.
I thought I was going to beable to take off from work.
I'm a business owner.
I couldn't.
So, in the midst of merecovering from a difficult
delivery, having a newborn childfor the first time in life, I
had tremendous support from mymom and my husband and my
mother-in-law, father-in-law,ex-in-law, my dad wonderful.
So they were very supportive.
A few friends in town, butstill I was still having to work

(19:13):
month two, month three, monthfour.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
So I don't feel like my brain got to take a break
either.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
So I don't know.
I don't know if I answeredthose questions, but before and
during was a huge transition forme.
I'm going to say this because Ithink somebody might identify.
Amen, come on, children are ablessing for the Lord, just flat
out.
I know she sees this where it'sheading Period.
Because, you got to start withthe positive Amen, let's do it.

(19:37):
Yes, they are a true blessingfrom God.
I know people who would haveprayed for a positive test for a
healthy baby.
True blessing from the Lord,right, but it is okay.
So someone told me a mothertold me it is okay if you don't

(19:57):
enjoy pregnancy.
Every woman doesn't enjoypregnancy.
So it's okay If you like it, ifyou don't like it.
They said it's okay, you choosewhich one.
It is for you.
And I was middle of the ground.
Some stuff was okay, some stuffI was like I can do without
this pain.
But when you have kids and I'mstill in six months into I,

(20:21):
still in that first year of himwhen you have kids, it is okay
for you to feel the life changeand the life differences.
I was going to tell yousomething earlier.
This is something I had torealize too, when you talked
about the timing.
Oh boy, people tell you thisall the time.
You really recognize it.

(20:42):
When you have kids, you have ason.
When you have kids, it's reallynot about us.
It's really not about us.
I had to really think about whatit means for him to be born at
the time.
He was born, not in society, inour lives, my husband and my

(21:03):
life.
Like, what does that mean thathe's being born at this age and
this stage, with the wisdom wehave, with the knowledge we have
, with the resources we have,what does that mean for him and
what does that allow for him?
And then I had to look at okay,if I had to choose the time,
would I have chosen this timeFor sure?

(21:25):
That's a no, I wouldn't have.
I mean, somebody might have,but come on, no, that's fair.
No, no, no for sure.
Like I would not in the firstyear.
We were planning to have kidsthis upcoming year.
Yes, so it wasn't like we wasn't, it wasn't on the docket, it
was just not in the first year.
So, but things happen and Godis God.

(21:51):
So I think I really settledinto that when Micah was born.
I spend so much timeunderstanding, like that it's
not about me, it's about him.
I spend so much time beingtuned into his personality and
his like, needs, his desires,his wants than I have anything
else.
And I think that's interesting,because I wasn't necessarily

(22:13):
brought up that way, right, likeI feel like I wasn't a mom back
then, I was a kid.
Sure, my vantage point isdifferent, but I feel like
growing up I heard a lot moreparents like stifling the kid
and like really trying to makethe kid fit them as opposed to
understanding the child and whatthat child might actually be
saying, wanting, needing intheir own language, and that's

(22:36):
hard to do.
I understand why people didn'tdo it because they got to work.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
It's a full time job, it's very hard, it's hard, it's
hard to do and especially,especially, when it wasn't your
experience.
So it is this shift, and Ithink it's a healthy shift.
I do think that there areplenty.
I would say probably more tolearn about parenting from our
parents' generation than to notlearn.

(23:02):
I think most of it was healthy,I agree.
I think I think there most ofit was healthy.
I think I think we try tochange some of it and it's not
going well, like we don't needto do that.
Right, like our generation islike no, we know none of this,
none of this.
Take that away, you know, andit's like well, pause, like no,
let's remember there were somethings, but I love what you just

(23:24):
said paying attention to whothe child is Not not that
they're yours, like they are,but they are, they are their own
and they're coming into theirown and you're not always going
to have them, and so that'ssomething that that we've at
least I've been thinking a lotabout, that we've, or at least

(23:45):
I've been thinking a lot about.
You know, arson is 10 and just,I mean he's.
You could see he came, I cameinto his life when he was seven
and you can see the change, likehe is so different and there
are some things that are similar, but there are some things that
are very different.
And, like he's, he's matured insome ways and you know, he's

(24:07):
had more of this, less of thatLike and so, but it's it's not,
and it's not just a steadypathway, it's a we're.
Some days we're negotiatingthis and some days it's this,
it's.
I thought you liked that, lastweek he did, this week he
doesn't, and I'm it's a constantlearning of who he is and who
he's becoming.
And so, to your point, this ourlives are also.

(24:34):
We also have theseresponsibilities.
And so how do you, how do youmentally balance right now, you,
how do you mentally balanceright now, like you're that kind
of like um, that thinkingaround Micah and what, like
understanding and trying tounderstand him and learn him,
even even as a six month old,with your responsibilities as a

(25:00):
business owner, like it's andand and and.
Then we can even bringresponsibilities as a wife too,
because that's a different thing.
You, it's and and and, and.
Then we can even bringresponsibilities as a wife too,
because that's a different thing.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
You know what I'm saying?
Let's just be real.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
Like that's a whole different thing.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
I think like people people.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Wife and mother are two different things.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
That's two different roles, that you have to, you
have to constantly figure outhow to harmonize those Right.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
So let's talk about that for a little bit.
How, how are you managing allthat?
How to harmonize those?

Speaker 2 (25:21):
right?
Yes, it is, so let's talk aboutthat for a little bit.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
How are you managing all that?

Speaker 2 (25:26):
So, gosh, some days well, some days not well.
Yeah, but I like I.
There are two things I'vereally focused in on.
There's a book called the OneThing.
Ooh, I'm going to forget thewriter, the author.
It's a New York Timesbestseller, so you'll find it if

(25:49):
you type in the one thing onAmazon.
Joy will come up with it herein a second.
Okay, thank you, I appreciatethat.
So it's the one thing, and Iwas given this book by my big
brother mentor and he gave it tome.
There's a chapter in the bookthat talks about counterbalance
and balance and how balance isnot really a thing that's not
achievable.
Yeah, you counterbalance, right, you swing one direction and
then you swing back, likethere's a period you're having

(26:09):
to focus on this and you swingback this way and you focus, you
swing back this way, and ittalks about how you have to
consider the things in your lifeas glass and rubber balls.
And they're all in the air,right, they're all in the air.
And you're trying to keep theballs from falling.
Yes, the reality is somethingis going to fall, right.
And the book explains drop therubber, not the glass.

(26:32):
I like that, I love it, okay.
So for me, micah is glass Right, ricky is glass Right and in
some ways my, my company, mywork can be rubber.
It's not always because it paysbills, but sometimes I mean, in
the grand scheme of things, apriority list, it's not higher

(26:53):
than them, right.
And so I recognize there wasyears ago, when Scandal was in
its heyday, the TV show, shondaRhimes, the creator, writer, all
these things.
She spoke at a graduationceremony I'm going to forget for
what college and she mademention of something.

(27:15):
She said she has two childrenthat she adopted and she said
people ask her all the time howdoes she, you know, enjoy
becoming a mother, how does shedo that and be a showrunner and
be a this and a that and theother?
And she said, when my child washaving their first day of
school, I was on set seeing thelast scene for the last show

(27:38):
that whatever actor was going tocreate, and then she was like,
when it was the opening whateverfor another show.
She was missing a dance recitalfor it.
Like there's no way to doeverything and it's still okay.
And it's still okay.
Like, in what world or whatsociety or what dream are we

(27:59):
living?
Or believing that every singlething we put our hand to we have
the capacity to run efficiently?
In the same way, like there'sno one that can do that Right.
Where did that lie come?

Speaker 1 (28:14):
from.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
I think it's a desire , honestly Okay.
I think it's an internal desirethat what I put my hands to, I
want to do well.
What I commit to, I want toshow up for what I, you know,
position myself in.
I want to make sure I give allof me to or it.
You know it represents andidentifies me.
Whatever my name is on, youknow, comes back to me.

(28:37):
But again, Micah is a rubberball.
So there are times, there aretimes I'm in meetings and you
know I'll take a meeting andit's like, oh okay, well, you
know he's resting, so I'll justjump on a call real quick, Right
.
And then he gets up, Right, Yep.
And so for all of those whohave meetings with me and I say

(28:58):
excuse me just one moment, youjust give me just one moment.
That's, that's where I'm going.
I'm going to run and get ascreaming child.
And for those that see me muteand unmute and mute and unmute,
it's because I'm probablyfeeding him right in front of
the camera, which is why it'sall.
And there are times that thathappens.

(29:19):
There are other times where Ihave to cancel meetings or I
have to move a meeting.
I'm six months in, I'm stillfiguring it out, but grace is
such a powerful thing.
Yes, To your point about beinga wife and a mother.
Grace is something.
This is not what this podcastis about, but I will say this
yes, Grace is something that Ilearned in marriage.
Yes, I knew the grace of God.

(29:42):
I thought I knew the grace ofGod.
I thought, I thought but graceis something that I learned in
marriage and we were actually wedid a check-in for each.
We decided each anniversary wewould check in with we have two
pastors that really pour into usand pastor us, and so one
pastor, but the other one lovesus and used to pastor us, so we
used both of them, but we havethem pour into us.

(30:03):
And so one pastor, but theother one loves us and used to
pastor us, so we used both ofthem, but we have them pour into
us.
So when we hit anniversary, wedecided to go and let's just do
a session just to make surewe're good, Everything is
straight.
And so we're doing the session.
And you know, I happen to makesome things funny just because
it's easier to say and to copewith, so I'm joking around, but
obviously they know us, so theyknow what I'm saying when I'm

(30:26):
not saying it.
And this particular pastor goesinto this speech about grace
grace, giving each other graceand I was like, wow, I thought I
knew what that was and, becauseof how it was presented, I went
and did some more.
You know, looking into that, andI feel the same way about

(30:48):
having a child.
Yes, it's not just grace foryour spouse, it's grace for
yourself.
You know, I don't always feelmy best.
There was a time I didn't fit.
I don't currently fit maternityclothes or my previous clothes,
so I wear what I fit and I amnot.
I'm not used to that.
I'm not used to, I'm not usedto my body not responding to me

(31:10):
doing different things.
And the crazy part is I can'talways blame it on pregnancy,
because I'm also getting older.
So I don't know.
My hip went out the other dayand I was like I don't know
which one it was.
Is it age?
Is it you don't?

Speaker 1 (31:29):
know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
So it's really grace, and that's hard.
I'm not perfect at that.
I'm not perfect at giving,don't know, I don't know.
So it's really grace, andthat's hard.
Yeah, I'm not perfect at that.
I'm not perfect at giving graceto myself, that's right.
I'm not perfect at that.
So I do beat myself up when Ihave to move a meeting.
I beat myself up more if hecries more than three minutes,
which doesn't harm him at all.
Yes, it's like he's crying.
It's nothing wrong, he'll beokay.

(31:54):
There's nothing harming him orinjuring him.
He's fed, he's changed.
So I do, it gets to me.
But then I have to remember Iwas never created to do
everything.
That's why we have a father whois supernatural.
Because we're natural, we'rehuman.
We can only do a little, butwhat we do, if we submit it to
the Lord, he'll make it plenty.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
And so at the end of the day, I have to just believe
that what I did that day wasenough and I'll start again
tomorrow and do better tomorrow.
So that is uh.
I think grace is a, it's a.
It is a tricky concept, it isnot, it is not easy to grasp,
and I'm glad that you, I'm gladyou said what you said, because
I think especially people womenin particular that are high

(32:39):
achievers, um struggle withgrace for themselves, and then
some, and then, and then in turn, if you don't have good grace
for yourself, you can't havegood grace for others.
And so you know the relationalcapital sometimes suffers as a
result of that.
And so you know that.
So it's such an important thingto understand and I think, uh,

(33:02):
I'm with you.
I think I understand grace at alevel I have not understood it
before having these two humansattached to me right, Like it's
like oh wow, and not, they'renot just attached to me, I'm
attached to me, right.
Like it's like oh wow, and not,they're not just attached to me
, I'm attached to them, right.
It is a, it is a both, andbecause they have to have grace

(33:22):
for me and um and uh, andbecause of me, like they need I,
cause I, you know, I am who Iam and all day like, and I, it's
just, it's just what it is.
And so I think, and especially,like you know I don't know how
this was for you, but I knowlike I'm used to catching on to

(33:45):
things pretty quickly got it,got it, got it.
Like no, not this, like notthis, ain't no, got it.
I mean, it has been a journeyand I think it's very humbling
and I'm grateful for thatbecause they are just.

(34:09):
God uses different moments tohumble us and I think especially
and I keep coming to thisbecause, again, I think there
are a especially and I keepcoming to this because, again, I
think there are a lot of womenwho are in this position either,
who are single and will bemarried with children here in
the next few years, or that's adesire that that that will
probably have, that that may ormay not happen, um, or are in
this stage where we are, whereit's like fresh and new in your

(34:33):
life, um, but it is a um for forthose of us who have, who have,
I'm not going to say masteredthat's not the right word, but
got very comfortable and umthrive at some level in our
single season.
Um, you know, you're kind of.

(34:54):
You're kind of in this rhythmof success.
You're kind of hitting the markOkay, cool, I got it, I got it,
I got it.
And then you get to thisentirely new place and it's like
where are my marks?

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Because I don't even know where they are anymore
right Well marriage doesn't havea trajectory.
You can just have a good kid,and that's the thing.
If you want to move up inbusiness, whether you own it or
you work for someone in acompany, there are steps to take
.
If you want to grow yourcompany, there are steps to take
.
There are so many differentthings that have a step-by-step

(35:30):
or at least a measuring stick,correct, if you bring in this
amount, if you make this amountin the company I mean if you
work for a company you hit thesemilestones there's a measuring
stick.
There's a pattern, there's apath, there's a measuring stick.
There's not one for marriage,because every single marriage is
different, every singlerelationship, every child is
different.

(35:50):
And so for me and I say this alot marriage is an institution.
I say that for two reasons.
Because I say this a lotmarriage is an institution.
I say that for two reasonsbecause I need a measuring stick
.
So marriage is an institution.
There are certain things inmarriage that will happen to
every marriage that growingtogether, resources, whether you

(36:12):
combine them or you leave themseparate, that's a conversation,
doesn't matter how you do it,still a conversation, right?
That's something you go throughthe growing together, the
changing one or another, theinterest.
There are things that arecommon to it.
So I have a measuring stick now, right, so that's the
institution part.
Marriage, college institutionswe may go through different

(36:33):
colleges, different places,different institutions, join
different groups, study adifferent topic, but there's
still certain things you'regoing to have at every college.
You got to go to class, you gotyour general education
requirements, you got all thesethings.
That's common.
So I for myself, found somecommon ground with marriage to

(36:53):
say, okay, this is the commonstuff that happens when we hit
the common thing of finances.
How did we make it through that?
Now I have a measuring stick.
When we hit the common thing ofyou know how we're going to
raise our child, how did we makeit through that?
Now we got a measuring stick.
So for me it was a healthy wayof seeing okay, we're going

(37:17):
through similar things thateveryone goes through.
Everyone's going to go throughthose things completely
differently, but how did we makeit through what we went through
?
And then, as a person, as yousaid, coming from a single world
for much of my life intomarriage, who may have hung my
hat on different success metrics, that's something I can measure

(37:40):
.
It just means to me we're doingokay, we're doing okay.
Everybody's going through.
It's people who think you'regoing to beat out certain things
.
You probably will, but beatingit out doesn't mean you didn't
go through it, you did.
You just beat it Like you justdidn't have it, didn't have the
impact on you that it could have.

(38:01):
And so those are differentthings.
I mean some things never entercertain marriages, but there
will always be some commonthings that just coming together
as two people, marriage isdifferent from having like a
roommate in life.
But even if you have a roommatein life there, are certain
things.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
There's similar things.
Yeah, some things are similar.
That's right, you're gonna,yeah, so that's how I do it.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
I think it's healthy to do it that way, because there
is no trajectory and you canfeel lost, like I remember
speaking to a young lady who wasreally fresh in marriage and
she was like I wish there waslike a handbook or a rule book
or like what am I supposed tolike?
And I, literally, at that time Iwasn't married.
I was just talking to her and Isaid, hey, just listen, they
married you.
Be you, yeah, as you're being.

(38:47):
You figure it out, but don'ttry to change you to fit a mold,
correct.
That's another thing that wetry, ricky and I try not to do.
We're pretty I think we'redecently good at it that we have
determined that there is not aspecific way this is supposed to
work.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, no, no, you know, I was reflecting on that
earlier of just like that'severybody's different.
So every time, you know, everysingle marriage is different
because it's different, simplydifferent people.
Every single parentingexperience is different because

(39:26):
you're, you got different kids.
That's right.
You know, even in the samefamily I love, there's a
psychologist essentially said noparents have no kids, have the
same parents Because you know,if you all have have other
children, you'll be in adifferent space than you were
with Micah.
They're meeting differentparents than Micah had, right.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
And same for us.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
We won't like our, our, our next children won't be
meeting the same parents thatour son sees now.
And so it will be different,and so there's something
beautiful about that and veryscary.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Like I mean because you know, you just don't know.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
So, with that, what makes you?
I don't know.
I realize we're parents, aretwo different children, because
yours is you can't talk yet, but, um, mine can a lot, and so, uh
, what are the things, though,that make you nervous?
Like, what makes you nervousand I don't know?

(40:31):
When I think about that, Ithink about just in this world
that we are living in, um, andjust the different levels of
exposure, access, all of thatthat naturally come um, some
which we can control and some wecan't.
Um, and what that looks like,and how you, what, what, what,

(40:57):
what you may have or may feellike.
You need to unlearn about howto manage that reality as you
figure out, you know, as youwalk through parenting with.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Micah, I think before we had Micah.
While we were pregnant, Iwrestled with having a child in
the world today.
I really wrestled with that.
It felt like why in the worldwould you want to bring a child

(41:29):
into this type of society?

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Because it is wild.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Yeah, I really wrestled with that and I think,
gosh, somebody came to me.
I have so many brilliantmothers, just veterans.
You know, kids of 50 years old,you know, just veteran mothers,
and one of them came to me andsaid all of us felt like that
when we raised our kids.
The world was always worse thanwhat we had when we had our

(41:57):
children, and it will continueto feel like that.
I think the other thing thatmade me nervous our pastor,
apostle Bertha Terry.
She has a book called InvisibleWarfare and she talks about how
in that book that the warfareagainst the parents is really
against the family.
It's invisible warfare againstthe family.
It is really against the family.
It's invisible warfare againstthe family.
It's really against thechildren.

(42:17):
Like the enemy will comeagainst our adversary, our
spiritual adversary will comeagainst the parents in order to
impact the kids, because he'salready impacted us.
The impact he did to ushappened as kids and now he's
trying to impact our kids and soanything that comes against our
marriage comes against ourperson, it's to to impact our
kids, and so anything that comesagainst our marriage comes
against our person comes it's tonegatively impact our children.

(42:39):
And, as a really interestingconcept and I think, a truth and
I took that to heart also makesme nervous, a part of the thing
in the book is that we have toserve God with our children more
, like they need more of himthan what we had, because they

(43:02):
are experiencing things we neverhad to experience.
Life is much different for themthan it is for us, and what we
had they need more of, not lessof.
They need more of.
And so how do you cultivatethat relationship with your kid
than to have more than what youhave?
I think I have a pretty strongrelationship with the Lord, but
it still makes me nervous thatI'm not doing enough for him.

(43:25):
Am I reading the Bible enoughto him?
He's six months old, but atwhat point do you make it to
where it's a part of his nature?
Do you make it to where it's apart of his nature, like at what
point is kingdom a part ofculture and not just church?
So actually making that kingdoma culture for him?
When we get up, we pray to theLord.
When we read during the day,not just at night, we have more

(43:48):
than just a scripture.
We talk to the Lord, wecommunicate.
When something happens, we saylet's pray about it.
When does that become culture?
We have all of these differentcustoms that travel with
different ethnicities ordifferent groups of people.
That is cultural for them.
So kingdom is a culture, and wedon't always use that with our

(44:12):
children.
So that keeps me on a verge ofnervousness.
Am I doing enough?
Because there's only so manyhours in a day and that's the
whole rubber glass ball right,yes, did he get fed?
Is it clean?
Right, right, right, is hestill alive?
Correct, okay, congratulations,great day, great day, great day

(44:33):
.
No, but sometimes that'sliterally it's like I loved him.
I fed him, I cleaned him, Ihugged him, I played with him, I
tried to teach him somethingand then you know, that's all
because, on the other hand, it'sstill work and wife, and it's a
lot, yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
You know I, um, as a I don't, I don't know, I I've
told I don't.
I don't give advice to anybodyaround this.
I've only been in it for well,you know.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Same.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah, Amen.
So what I'm about to say is notthat, but just my experience to
that point of this.
Will they grasp the kingdomculture Right and, you know,
particularly like juxtaposedagainst what they're exposed to
out here?

Speaker 2 (45:21):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
And I have been, and so in our case, right, he's.
He's not my natural child, sohe's he has a whole life.
I'm unaware of Right and I wasnot a part of, and learn
different things from differentpeople that I don't have a
unaware of Right and and I wasnot a part of, and learn
different things from differentpeople that I don't have a
relationship with Right.
So he's coming in already withstuff, right and so for, on my

(45:47):
end, like I don't necessarilyhave a fresh start.
And then even from me and myhusband as as a married couple,
it I mean, I mean, even thoughthat's his father as a married
couple, we are starting fromsquare seven, not square zero.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
So this idea of like, how do we manage what he's
coming with, with what it isthat we want to try to impact
and instill and I have been thisis where I feel like the grace
of God comes in the middle ofparenting.
That I have seen, at least inour story, is God has his

(46:29):
devotion.
As a 10-year-old to the Lord, Iattribute to God more than more
than us Wow, wow, wow.
I am constantly amazed at how,how sensitive him, as a child,
is to the voice of God, thepresence of God.
I mean, I can't.

(46:49):
I would take me too long toreally narrate a couple of
particular stories.
Me too long to really narrate acouple of particular stories
that I mean, left me juststunned.
And he has not necessarily beenin church or you know in in that
world for a consistent periodof time as long as he has been
here.
But he, totally honest, he gotus more involved in church, more

(47:14):
consistent.
We're there multiple times aweek.
My husband is at church morethan I am doing stuff and just
like, but it's because of him,it's because of his desire.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
That's so awesome.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
And we've only had him as a couple for coming on
three years, and so it just itis just a testament to children
are just open.
They are way more open than weare, which you know, and so,
like god, I think the keeping,because, lord knows, my husband

(47:51):
and I are very, we're very human, I mean we're just very human,
you know, and um, we love theLord, but we're human.
We don't lean to the human, tothe other side, we lean human.
Okay, and so I know that thereis, like our it's as far as
routine and, like you know,traditions and all that stuff.
When it comes to um-filledhousehold, I mean, we're not

(48:17):
very consistent in all that, ifI'm just being honest, but that
has not impacted his desire andlove for God.
You know what I'm saying, andso I see that I'm like God.
Thank you, Because, man, wesuck a lot of times.
No you don't, we do.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
No, you don't.
It's just a part like this.
It's just a part like this.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
It's the balls in the air.
It is it is the balls in theair and I, you know, but I think
about my parents and somethings that we did and just like
the routine and consistency andall this stuff and like I'm
like we don't like it, it ain't.
It's choppy over here, you know, and I'm not really sure how

(48:57):
that's impacting him.
But then it's like God, sincethese little reminders like no,
I'm, I'm actually I'm filling inso many of your gaps you don't
even realize it.
it's like you don't even know hebe saying some crazy stuff.
This kid where you're like.
First of all, where did youlearn that?
Where you?
learn that the other day herandomly sent me a prayer, like
a prayer on YouTube.
He just sent it to me.

(49:18):
He finds he's like and he callsMiss Abby.
He's like Miss Abby, come in,you know, I sent you something.
I was like, okay, I was on thephone.
I said I'll look at it when Iget off the phone.
And of course I didn't.
I I'm way too, I can't keepstuff.
So I looked at him on the phoneand I realized it was a prayer.
I was like this little 10 yearold boy just sent me a random

(49:38):
prayer Just going throughYouTube.
Crazy, random.
Where'd that come from?
Really, really sweet.
And he'll just have thesemoments.
Who ask these questions?
He'll, you know, and just thecuriosity, the conviction, and
that doesn't come from us andour routines and teaching and
all of that Anyway, you know.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
I asked myself this because obviously the point in
time I remember as a child, Iwas probably five or six.
But where my memory actuallycan go back and remember is my.
I think I was five or six and Ijust remember my mom just
keeping us really active inchurch and doing things and
coming home and praying with usand reading to us and this and
the other.
And ironically, she does thesame thing with Micah she prays
with him, she reads to him, sheteaches him and I'm like, thank

(50:24):
you Jesus.
And so I.
But listen, gosh, every seasonof parenting, every season of
life, every season of living iscompletely different.
Before her they were havingchildren at 13, 14, like my
grandmother's age, you know andthen that dynamic they moved in,
they were getting young, youknow, married young in their 20s

(50:44):
or whatever.
And then now we have you knowpresent day dynamics which did
both because we've had some 13,14.
Anyway, so we have a little bitof both, but back then most
people it was more common towork a job than own a job yeah,
so most people had a nine tofive, stressful, strenuous, but

(51:08):
come home and I left it there.
Correct, right, whereas whenyou have a company.
Six o'clock is not always aclocking out time Come on.
You just can't always clock out.
That's right, there's stuffthat has to be done.
Yes, and so when you have thatstill on your mind, when you
didn't get to get in your carand leave, and leave it there,

(51:28):
and then you go back in, you sitat the work and you put it back
on yes, when you didn't get todo that, or you know, sometimes
you come home even with thatkind of a job, you have a
conversation like oh, it justhappened at work, and then I'm
done with it.
It just doesn't happen, and soit's really difficult then to
compare the two ages to me to mebecause I was a latchkey kid.

(51:51):
Both of my parents had jobs likethat, so we did a lot on our
own.
They did what they could, butthen also it was come home, do
homework, pray, bed, and on theweekends they had more time to
pour into us, whereas I'm tryingto, and they did some during
the week too.
I'm not saying that, but I justmean he's six months, we're

(52:11):
keeping him home, he doesn't goto a daycare, and so whoever is
there with me helps me pourRight, and when it's just me, I
pour Right, but we're doing itall day, so I try to infuse.
Hearing this, hearing you saythat, just reminds me of the
power of God.
Like I read something onFacebook.
I'm never going to rememberwhat it exactly said, but the

(52:32):
sentiment of it was all of youparents that are trying to.
Oh, something about picking theright school in the right
district.
In this sense says you'retaking things out of God's hands
.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Ah, yes, I think I've seen that.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
Yes, yes, yes, that God can literally do that with
your child, wherever they are.
Like, yes, do your best topositively impact, do your best
to give them what you can, right, but then let God be God.
And what you just said, thatjust completely, was like, okay,
that helped me because it'slike you know what I'm just I'm
doing my best.
I've got to settle in the factthat I'm doing my best and then

(53:05):
I have to let God be God.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Yes, that's it, that's it.
It is literally the only thingyou really can do, because
everything else is a is a.
It's a false sense of control.
And and so we're really justspinning our wheels, not going
anywhere.
Just make yourself tired bycontinuing to do that.
You said something earlier.
It's not going to come back.

(53:28):
You said something earlier thatman I wanted to kind of come
back to, because it kind of hitand it's not coming.
I'm not going to spend any moretime, that's okay.
So, but yeah, I what?
This might be a little weirdquestion, but and you may have
addressed it earlier what thingsabout you have you kind of had

(53:53):
in the back of your head, like Iwonder if this is going to
change about me.
Am I going to become more ofthis or less of this as a result
of being a mom, and especiallyagain being a mom a little
unexpectedly so?
really soon right and you justweren't prepared for it Is.

(54:15):
Are there things about you thatyou're like?

Speaker 2 (54:19):
I really like this about me, and I kind of think it
might change went through twohealing classes so one virtually
one in person, two differentleaders and went through a

(54:40):
series at our church.
That was very helpful.
So before I got married I wasvery much in a more centered
place than I have ever been inmy life.
That could be maturity, but Iattribute a lot of it to those
healing journeys.
So I feel good about who I amand where I am and I don't feel
like that changes with a child.

(55:01):
I feel like you impart thatinto your child.
But I am very careful that gosh.
There's certain things I reallywant him to you know, if you
think about a documentary whenhe gets older and what he says
about his mom, that's what Ifocus on.
I want him to say my mom huggedme, kissed me and every night
told me she loved me, like mymom was my biggest cheerleader.

(55:23):
You know, you hear those thingsthat people say when they get
in the mic and you're like Iwant to be that mom.
You know.
So I'm very intentional withhim.
I have this thing I do with him, and I started doing it when he
was a baby Baby.
He's still a baby, sure, baby,baby.
It's so funny because he'sbigger now and I'm like I want
that he's still a baby.
It's weird, anyway, when he wasa baby baby, I do this every

(55:48):
single time.
He starts crying and I wipe histears and I say mommy wipes the
baby's tears every single time,mommy wipes baby's tears,
because I want him to have thatinternalized in him that you can
come to your mom, that you cancome to, and there's just little
things I add into him, justthings like that that I hope

(56:09):
he'll probably remembersomething negative.
I don't know, maybe he'll.
I hope he doesn't.
I hope that's not reality, butI had a friend tell me that, no
matter what you do with yourchild, they're going to end up
in therapy talking about you,and that's actually freeing, not
really scary, it's freeingbecause it's like, true, you can
do your best, it's true.
I hope, though, he will have somuch positive to say about us,

(56:30):
about how he's raised, aboutwhat we did with him, that he
has those little moments that hecan take with him.
One of the nervous things that Iprobably should have mentioned
earlier is we're older.
At the age I am now, my parents.
I was 20 years old with myparents or close there.
I was in high school when theywere my age.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
That's surreal, he's six months.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Man look.
So when you look down the lineI go.
What can he take with him ifI'm not with him?
That's nervousness for me.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
Pause.
Hold on, I'm sorry, hold on.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cutyou off, but hold on no, go
ahead, go ahead that is veryreal.
Um, that's very real.
I'll be honest, I don't knowthat I've heard it articulated
quite that way from uh.
Parents who start theirparenting journey a little older

(57:28):
what say it?
Say it again what you have.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Something to the effect of what can I give him
that he can take with him if I'mnot with him?

Speaker 1 (57:36):
Oh yeah, when did you start thinking about that?

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Immediately yeah, immediately, because my
husband's retiring for the firsttime 20 years into military.
He'll obviously retire again.
He's not going to stop workingat the age we are now, but
that's the first retirement, allright.
So we're at the age now wherewe're looking towards the second
retirement, and again at ourage.
Our parents are still, to us,young.

(58:01):
When he gets our age, withGod's grace, we'll still be here
.
We pray all the time.
Lord, I want to see him throughhigh school and college and
marriage and kids.
I want to see him do that.
But life is life and none of usknow.
We're life heads and becausewe're at this age and he's at

(58:24):
that age, lord, what can we givehim in case we're not with him?
We've been very intentionalevery step of the way.
I'm always pouring in because Ihave seen some of the best
people.
I don't necessarily considermyself.
I think people see other people.
Oh, you always think somebodyelse is just the best you know.

(58:44):
So you don't always seeyourself like that, but I've
seen some of the best peopleleave here with kids that are
six and ten and this and that,and I watch their children, I
watch their spouses and I'm likegosh and all you can do is pray
with the hope and faith thatyou'll be here to see it.

(59:05):
You're going to live to see it.
But in case God's will isdifferent, what do I give him?

Speaker 1 (59:25):
now that he'll have later.
And you're making me's.
My mom is turning 75 this yearand I one thing that both her
and my father, they were very,very comfortable talking about

(59:47):
their death with us, very young,with me, particularly because
I'm the oldest.
They would say it a lot.
They would.
You know, to this day, my dadwill send a text message if he's
in the air.
You know, this is where all thestuff is Da-da-da-da-da-da-da
Right.
This is what he sent me anemail one time, I think I was in

(01:00:07):
college.
This is what he sent me anemail one time, I think I was in
college.
This is what I want a funeral tobe like.
Um, this is the people I want.
These are songs I want.
This is the type of casket Iwant.
I mean, I have it down to thedetail.
He, this is.
This has been a recurring and Iwonder I think this is partly
just because this is their justum, I think their faith is
driving most of it um, and but Iwonder if some of it,

(01:00:33):
particularly for on my mom'sside, was the reality, is I
don't know how long, because I'mnot 20 something when I'm
having you.
You know, I've never even askedfor that I'm don't know, but
that perspective is so rich tome because and I'm so grateful
that that's why that's not theonly thing you can leave with

(01:00:55):
your children, obviously.
But right.
But it is a significant thing toyour point when, when you're a
child and you have no concept,it doesn't even occur to you
that that is possible until acertain time in your life, that
that is possible until a certaintime in your life.
But the reality is for olderparents that that that will,
that can.
There's a higher probabilitythat it comes more quickly than

(01:01:20):
for parents who have childrenyounger.
That's just, or we could alllive to see 95.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
We could, we don't know I mean, you know how.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
How are you going to be at 95?
And let's be honest, you knowwhat I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Because you probably still can't do that.
And somewhere in Italy with theother 95-year-olds.
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Right, all two of them.
So it's just that's such a rich.
I love that you said that.
I think that's real and I thinkthat it's a healthy space for a
lot of older parents to reallybe like.
Space for a lot of olderparents to really be like how
can I be intentional aboutpouring into my children as much
as I can without knowing?

(01:01:56):
Now, that that's healthy, Ithink, at any point, because,
like you say, you never know,you don't know, right, but
particularly with older children, anyway, I just that is really
good.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Well, I think it's really more about focusing on
the child themselves and so andnot really my own or our own
mortality right, so reallyfocusing on him, and the thing
that I really want more thananything is for him to be
prepared.
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
I don't necessarily so my mother did so much what
your father does.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Ricky's parents, because I'm the baby, but
Ricky's parents because he's theoldest did what your parents do
to him making sure he's ready.
He's prepared.
My mom really just sends uscheck-ins.
Do you know where this is?
Do you know where that is?
Do you remember what we toldyou about this?
And then we have to kind ofspit back out where those things
are, just so we know whenthings happen.
But again, her thing in doingthat is for us, when this, if

(01:02:53):
this happens, when this happens,we don't want you, stressed, we
don't want you.
So we're doing somethingsimilar for him Life insurance
for him, for us, for this, Like,what do we have in place?
A trust, a this or whatever itis that we can do at whatever
age?
How do we have it set up sothat he doesn't have to worry If

(01:03:14):
something happens?
Does he have a custodian?
Does he have a?
The God's honest truth.
We fully believe and have hope.
We'll be here until he has kids.
But so can we prepare him asmuch as possible.
And so preparation is one thingfor him, but the second thing
is, how do we establish in himRight?

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
No matter how many siblings or if he has siblings.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
How can we instill in him a sense of self and a sense
of not really autonomy, but,gosh, just self-awareness, self,
just pride.
What can we instill in him thathe can stand on his own and
that if he's in this world, weknow he's okay and we're proud

(01:04:04):
of him.
And we know he's okay Becausethe world is crazy and there are
things we cannot protect himfrom.
It's really great to understandthe limits of your control, so
you can place things in God'shands that belong there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
But the things that we can control, we really do try
to, and so that's just one.
We just try to be intentionalabout that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
So let's end on this.
I want you to just talk topeople who could be in your
shoes, in my shoes.
They're a little older, had anestablished life before, kind of
got their world turned aroundreal quick with this addition of
multiple humans that they nowhave to be aware of every day,

(01:04:45):
right, um?
So what are some things thatyou would encourage them?
And I don't know.
Okay, I'm going to combinethese two questions.
I did one you talked about thishealing journey, but maybe this
is, maybe it's gonna be one intwo, one one, one of the same
question and how you, uh, a lotof the things about yourself you

(01:05:05):
have kind of learned to acceptand understand and like love, um
, and that's not something youreally, but it's because you
were going through this, thishealing journey what, how would
you encourage women, uh, who areheaded to this part of their
life, to heal, and what, whatthings would you encourage them
to unlearn of, like, just toprepare for what might be coming

(01:05:29):
?

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
Oh gosh, I want to make this so quick.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Boy, that was heavy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
First thing I will say to anyone, any woman who is
out there, who is successful,who is thriving, who is striving
, who is single or dating orgetting married, is married.
Whoever you are, if you're outthere and you believe the best
of yourself and that you'reamazing because you are, and
that you are excellent andyou've got your teeth crossed
and your eyes dotted andeverything is buttoned up, it's

(01:05:56):
not.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Good Release that.
Yes, yes, absolutely Sincerely,it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
It's not.
There are things that we havegrown up with that we cannot see
.
They are blind spots.
We have roots, what we'retaught in one of our healing
classes trees and fruit, and alot of the roots allowed us to
create things in our tree tohold the fruit.

(01:06:27):
But there were some roots wenever needed, should have never
experienced, went through anddid the best we could and we
have created these trees aroundthese roots that we no longer
need and we have personalitiesand attitudes and nuances and
things that come up because ofroots that we don't need right

(01:06:47):
now.
Wow, quickly.
There was a toxic environmentthat I had as a child in some
instances, and I didn't realizethat the communication styles
that were around me were becauseof the toxicity.
I took those communicationstyles into a healthy
environment and didn'tunderstand why people didn't
receive me.
But when I became anotherversion of myself even before

(01:07:11):
healing, another version ofmyself and I went back into that
environment, I recognized itwas toxic.
But I also recognized why andbecause I didn't have the, why I
didn't need the toxicity.
That's something you have tounlearn.
I didn't need it because thereason wasn't there.
It was toxic because of this.
But if I don't have a this.
I didn't need it because thereason wasn't there.
It was toxic because of this.
But if I don't have a this, Idon't need to be toxic.

(01:07:33):
They probably don't either, butthey're trying to make it
through right, that's a tree anda root.
So my thing is there's so manyof us that do that.
I talked to so many women whoare on a relationship journey
that I was just recently on,just came out of in marriage
that always believed they weregood and it's always the other
person and you are good andyou're amazing, but you got some

(01:07:59):
roots that you don't reallyneed the trees.
You have fruit that's hangingthat people are trying to show
you are not as healthy as youthink.
That's good and it's a blindspot and you can't see it
because who you are not ashealthy as you think.
And it's a blind spot and youcan't see it because who you are
, you've been able to use whoyou are to get to where you are.
But you could also do itdifferently.
And I use this example not toembarrass anyone and say

(01:08:24):
anything, but because it helpedme in life.
There was an instance where Iwas helping a young lady who was
a really phenomenal trackrunner and we got to a point
where they were trying to changethe way they run.
This has happened to multipleyoung ladies that I know, by the
way, but they were trying tochange the way that they ran.
And how they ran before wasamazing, like record breaking

(01:08:49):
and you know getting awards andcertificates and all the things.
But when they got into anothersetting they couldn't run like
that and what they were tryingto teach them was hey, in this
setting, if you run like that,you're going to hurt yourself.
You got to change your gait.
Cece Winans just went to vocalclass like for the first time,

(01:09:09):
and the woman had been singing.
Who thinks CeCe Winans justwent to vocal class like for the
first time and the woman beensinging?
Who thinks CeCe Winans need avocal class.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
That's real.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
She wants to not hurt her voice.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
Hey, at this age and stage, if you keep doing that,
it's going to injure this.
So I think, as we grow as women, when you get to a certain
stage in life, you have torealize if you keep doing it
like that, like you've done for20 years and 10 years and five
years, it's going to injuresomething and it could very well
injure a relationship.
Yeah, and so if this is whatyou're pursuing, or your child,

(01:09:41):
this is what you're pursuing andwhat you want, healing I cannot
say enough about it Offline.
I'll tell you which classes Iwent to.
I recommend everyone join atleast one and be intentional
about about being on yourhealing journey.
And then your second questionwas about Uh-huh Unlearning Like

(01:10:04):
what things would you?

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
encourage women to unlearn Both like as they are
making the shift, like it wouldbe helpful for you to unlearn
these things if this is a shiftin your life you expect to make.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
Yeah, oh gosh, I'm going to have to.
We're going to have to do thaton another podcast, but let me,
let me just say this, because,listen, that could have started
at the beginning of this oneno-transcript.

(01:10:56):
Somebody else might.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
Interesting.
That's really a saying.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Somebody else might.
Yeah, something random thatyou're like.
Why is that an issue RightCould be random that you're like
.
Why is that issue Could be?
Men don't always identify asfrequently issues in women,
unless there's some kind of,like I said, toxicity there.
Don't always identify asfrequently issues in their
partners as much as women dowith them and it's very helpful

(01:11:26):
to know that just because it'snot spoken doesn't mean it's not
seen, and so I would unlearnthe fact that we have to be
teachers in all settings,because you don't have to.
You could really just introduceyourself to people and let
people be people, as there beingpeople encourage, support and

(01:11:49):
pull out their best self in away that's not teaching,
preaching or like scolding.
I think there's a level ofbeing best friends with my
husband that was really helpfulfor that.
This is going to be so funny.
Gosh Lord, have mercy, but I'mgoing to say it anyway.
I watch a lot of differentshows.
Okay, I watch old movies from19,.

(01:12:10):
Whatever 18s and on up.
I watch a lot of differentshows.
Yes, okay, I watch old moviesfrom 19,.
Whatever 18s and on up.
I watch a lot of shows.
Yes, the show I lean on beforeI got married, before I was
dating my spouse who's the Boss?

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
I love that show.
Love that show.
Don't ask me why I love thatshow.
Excellent show, I love thatshow.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
I love it too.
The thing that I really lovedhe was from Brooklyn, I think.
She was an ad exec inConnecticut and she never tried
to change him.
She never tried to change him.
She loved him as he was.
There were times she was alittle embarrassed, but she
never told him to stop being him.

(01:12:45):
It was the most unique thingand I was like she loved this
man for who he was.
I will never forget that.
I took that with me and I said,lord, if you send me someone,
help me to see who they are, notwho.
I think.
Oh, this would fit better withme, I think you need to be, or

(01:13:06):
this would be an easier thing.
I think it doesn't have to beeasier.
It doesn't have to be Let melove this person because, guess
what?
I'm asking you to do that forme.
Yeah, that's right, I'm askingyou to love me as I am.
So we have to unlearn the factthat we have to teach everybody
to be who they need to be.
We don't have to make them overactually, we can always see
better in their future andencourage them but we don't have

(01:13:28):
to push them Again.
We got to give God something todo.
That's right.
So at some point and listen.
That's not easy to sit andwatch, right, but if you're both

(01:13:50):
healed, I can hear you and youcan hear me and we can have this
conversation and dialogue.
And you don't feel like I'mpressing on you and I don't feel
like you're rejecting me.
I can feel like we're having aconversation.
You met me where you are, I'mspeaking to you where I am and
we may not be in the same point,so we'll have it again another
time and maybe we'll meet atthat point at another level and
then we'll understand each other.
On this point again, likeunlearn, the fact that it just
has to be easy and in some ways,you're saying it has to be your

(01:14:14):
way.
That's right.
You don't think you're sayingthat, but what you're saying is
I need it this way.
Well, if you need it that way,at some point in the future you
will be able to custom, make andcreate, but right now 2025, you
can't.
And people come to you aspeople, as flawed people, with
hurts and trials and triumphsand successes and victories.

(01:14:38):
They want to be celebrated likeyou want to be celebrated.
They want to be not held.
What am I trying to say?
They want to be cared for andthe things that you want to be
cared for about like everybody,is coming to you as a human
being and to have this idea aswomen that we have.
I'm going to stop here becauseyou know I can talk about this

(01:14:59):
all day.
But, to have this idea, aswomen that we have, that the man
is there to save our day.
We have literally given him ajob that he did not apply for.
And isn't qualified for he'scoming to be your partner your
spouse, your friend, your lover.
He's coming to be that as he is.

(01:15:22):
But we've given prerequisitesfor everything, and then we have
a very detailed job descriptionthat they didn't sign off on?

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
No, they did not, so you got to let grow with them
and let them.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
So that's a part I would unlearn the teaching.
I would not be I tell myhusband this all the time If he
had met me prior to my healingjourney, we would not be married
.
I would have already driven himaway, like already, and, truth
be told, I probably wouldn'thave wanted I'd be like you need
to be like this, but that comesfrom having that's you said

(01:16:03):
earlier an element of control.
There are things that you havein place to protect you from
things that you no longer needprotection from, but if you
don't get healed from that,those trees remain, that mindset
remains and that fruit remainsand it will prevent you from
moving forward.
So that's what I would say.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
I hate that.
I should have had you on theunlearning marriage when we
going to do that again.
We're going to do it againbecause I just feel like there's
a lot that we could talk aboutin that, but I think everything
you said also applies tochildren.
Yes, it does Right, and and,and it's one of those things
that you know you know,obviously, every, every child is

(01:16:50):
not raised by married parents,but if they are, if that that
understanding absolutelytranslates and it's so necessary
to understand within thecontext of your relationship
with your spouse, so that it cantransfer to your child.
Um, and, and I think, like Ilove that because children,

(01:17:11):
there's a lot of things thatteach us and yeah, we got to
teach and train children, but itdoesn't always have to be with
through my words and throughlike it.
There are, there are multipleways.
Environments teach us more thanI think anything else.
And so what is creating theright environment mean for
teaching, and not just trying tocreate a sliver of space and

(01:17:35):
say, okay, this is the time I'mteaching you and da, da, da, da,
da da, okay cool, and so weneed to do that and understand.
So, and I guess, when you'resaying like you don't always
have to be teachers when itcomes to children, I think we
are just not always in the waywe think we are.

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
I mean my mom said this one day Okay, somebody said
this one day.
Too late, too late, it's done.
My mom said this one day shewanted us to go ahead and say
she's very proud of Mike.
He's five months old, shethinks the world of him and he
can do anything.
She wanted us to go ahead andsay she's very proud of Mike.
He's five months old.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
She thinks the world of him and he can do anything.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
She's a first-time grandparent and she loves it.
She's such a great grandma, butshe said this one time she's
like we need to start teachinghim.
I want to wait to see hislearning style.
I'm watching him.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
Watch him.
That's right.
That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
I want to let him be him before I impose upon him
something that may not fit himand his learning style.
That's how it translates that Iam watching him intently to see
what he does, how he paysattention, what he picks up on,
so that I can teach him in a wayhe best learns, as opposed to

(01:18:48):
scolding him for not learningthe way I choose to teach him.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
Correct.
It's a different framework andI love that and I think again,
you create the environment fordiscovery and that is its own
teaching of even how heapproaches things.
Hey, before you and newenvironments, watch first before
you say anything, like when hefeels that from you and from his

(01:19:15):
parents, from his house, wewatch before we speak, like you
know we do that.
That's how we do, that's theculture you set up.
It's a different mindset.
I love that.
I just got to say this man,like we said at the beginning,

(01:19:42):
me and Erica have known eachother for a long time and I
gotta be, I gotta say this.
I'm gonna say this publicly, Idon't care, I mean, I'm gonna
say this to you because it'sjust us Um each other and we
were very different people andwe have seen each other.
It is so refreshing, and I thinkit's a testament to time and
growth and the Lord, that youdon't have to be who you were 20
years ago.
That's not a reality, right?

(01:20:04):
You don't have to do thatbecause I'm with you.
If my husband had met me threeor four years ago, he wouldn't
have wanted me.
You know what I'm saying.
I mean, at any other point inmy life really, I mean it just
wouldn't have, it wouldn't haveworked.
And so I think, just recognizingthat, like, change is real and

(01:20:27):
it's possible, and it's possiblefor you, like, and and I think
it's, it's, it's an openness toit.
And is it hard?
Yeah, like, it ain't easy, it'svery hard, but I, I think you
know I'm saying I've seen it, Isee it in you, I see it in
myself, and it's really cool tosee where God has us now.

(01:20:53):
I can't say 10 years, I mean 10years ago there's I would never
, you could never have told methis would have been my life and
you know, really truly didn'tsee it.
But the guy has has a differentway of you know, we discover
our stories.
They've already been written,right.
So, um, so yeah, I just want tosay that out loud.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
I appreciate that it's true, and that's something
everyone else can know too.
You can unlearn the fact thatthis is just who I am.

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
I am who I am.

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
You can unlearn that you can learn that I think when
you think, when you are strivingto be your best self, when you
learn that that's not your bestself, then you work to become
what a better version ofyourself is.
That's correct, and I thinkthat's what I was saying earlier
too.
Like you don't always realizethat's not it, like I think our
parents are being the bestversion of themselves at that
time.
You said earlier, the more youhave kids, they get another

(01:21:51):
version of you which may behopefully a better version of
you as you continue to move downthe line with children.
But I do think that's worthunlearning that I just am who I
am and people just have to.
They can't accept you.
They could choose not to.
That's also their choice.
Or you could choose to see ifthere's anything better you
could be, because there's nevera place called there you never
reached like, oh, here I'm mybest self.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
That's yeah, subjective, I, I there's a guy
named myron golden and I.
I know we have to stop, but Ijust we all end on this um, what
is he?
He says um, you, anybody, isdoing all they can do with the
person they are right now.
Everyone is doing all they cando with the person they are
right now.
Everyone is doing all they cando with who you are right now.

(01:22:31):
If you want to do more, youhave to become somebody
different.
That's just reality.
So you're doing your best withwho you are.

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
But there is, if you, if you want more, you have to
be, become more, and that is ajourney, and I think, like this,
you know this conversation andand and, and you know people who
find themselves in very, verydifferent seasons of life and
different.
You know which we all do, um,in order to meet that.
You do have to become adifferent.

(01:23:02):
You have to become different,um, in order to do that.
So, anyway, man, thank you forbeing here.

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
I'm glad you had me.
This is fun.
I love the podcast, so it was ablessing to be on it.
Thanks again for the invitation.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
Absolutely All right.
Y'all Download, subscribe, doall the things we love y'all.
We're growing the community.
We want you to be a part of it.
If this was helpful or if thiswas eye-opening for you or
somebody else, don't keep it toyourself.
Share it and we will see younext week.
Let's keep unlearning togetherso that we can experience more
freedom, Peace.

(01:23:36):
Thank you once again forlistening to the Unlearned
Podcast.
We would love to hear yourcomments and your feedback about
the episode.
Feel free to follow us onFacebook and Instagram and to
let us know what you think.
We're looking forward to thenext time, when we are able to

(01:23:59):
unlearn together to move forwardtowards freedom.
See you then.

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