Unlearning Parenting: The Smith Family Episode

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The whole Smith family gathers for an intimate, multigenerational discussion about parenting approaches, examining what needs to be preserved and what should be unlearned for the benefit of future generations.

• Jacqueline Smith (mother) shares how "more is caught than taught" when it comes to parenting
• Rev. Rufus Smith IV (father) reflects on giving his children what they wanted too easily, wishing he'd made them "earn it a little bit more"
• The family explores differing definitions of success across generations – from career achievements to family formation to spiritual growth
• Parental disappointment versus giving up on children is distinguished as the family openly discusses educational paths and life choices
• Technology's impact on modern parenting emerges as a crucial challenge that previous generations didn't face
• Individualizing parenting approaches for each child's unique personality and needs stands out as essential wisdom
• The importance of allowing children to experience challenging tasks is highlighted as building necessary brain development and life skills
• Balancing discipline with gentleness while maintaining consistent expectations emerges as timeless parenting wisdom

Don't forget to follow us on Facebook and Instagram to share your thoughts about this episode. We're looking forward to continuing to unlearn together as we move toward freedom.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello everybody and welcome once again to the
unlearned podcast.
I'm your host, ruth Abigail akaRa, and this is the podcast
that is helping you gain thecourage to change your mind so
that we can all experience morefreedom, and this right here, as
you can see, for freedom, andthis, right here, as you can see

(00:28):
, there's a lot of us here onthe screen.
I want to introduce everybodyto my family um that I am so
happy has joined me and I'm justgoing to tell you right now
it's going to be a veryentertaining uh hour or so, um,
and uh yeah.
So, hey, family, um, all right,so let me introduce them.
We have my.
We have my brother.
You all may have heard.

(00:48):
He has an episode on thepodcast where we talk about
religion.
If you haven't heard that,check it out.
It's one of the most popular.
Okay, alright, you can let me doit.
It's really not necessary foryou to prop yourself.
Got it, okay.
So it is, though it is actuallythe most popular episode, and

(01:08):
so I have him, that is myyounger brother, I have my
younger sister, who also hasbeen on the podcast, and we're
talking about siblingrelationships Amazing episode.
And then here we have myparents.
I have my beautiful mother,jacqueline Smith, here with us,
and none other than the ReverendRufus Smith IV.

(01:31):
Welcome family, I'm glad you'rehere.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
So how many views do I have and how many views does
Rona have?

Speaker 3 (01:38):
It's really not Don't do that.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Okay, all right, guys , okay here we go, Just so we
know.
I'm not editing, okay, so allright.
So what we're doing today,y'all, we're talking about
unlearning.
We're in a series calledUnlearning Parenting, and this
is really special because thisis going to be our series where
we really have a two-genperspective Really, I guess

(02:03):
three-gen, because my parentsparented us, obviously, and then
my brother and I have children,and so we have perspectives of
people who are grandparents,people who are parents, people
who have been kids all righthere in this episode, and so

(02:26):
we're going to.
I want to talk about, I want usto have a conversation about
overarching those differentroles, how they're different.
How did you manage in yourspace and how we manage in ours,
doing what we do today?
And, yeah, y'all know how we do.
I have some questions.
I may or may not get to themall, but let me just start with

(02:46):
this.
I'm going to start with you, ma, okay.
Okay, I want to know whatparenting mindset did.
Would you have said this isabsolutely the way to go, but
looking at it today, maybesomething you would have said is

(03:07):
might be different based onwhat you learned.
What parenting mindset did youhave when you started parenting
and as you got into parenting?

Speaker 4 (03:24):
maybe realized.
I don't think I had a mindset,if I even understand that
contemporary term but I justnaturally parented the way I was
parented.
That's kind of more I reallyrecognize.
Now, looking at all of thiswith 20-20 hindsight vision, I

(03:51):
recognize that what I doinstinctively is what I saw,
what I saw.
I reflect on what I saw as Igrew up.
I reflect on what I saw as Igrew up and that that to me
proves the common concept Idon't know who originated it

(04:12):
that more is taught is caughtthan taught.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
So I just what I reflect on in any instance, is
how it was handled with me.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
I know that better than anything I've read.
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's good, okay, so I think that's.
I think that's a key thing.
You parents are the way youwere parented.
Pop, would you say that as thesame for you?

Speaker 5 (04:56):
for you yes and no.
Okay, so to your question.
What was I so dogmatic aboutthat?
Going into parenting but inhindsight would unlearn, was, I
believe, at least from myperspective.
I wanted to give all of youwhat you wanted in addition to

(05:17):
what you needed, but I did sotoo easily.
I would unlearn that and causeuh you to um merit, or wait a
little longer than I did,because yeah, give an example of

(05:39):
that.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Give an example because, because, because,
because all my friends got carswhen they were 16 yeah, and
there was a phone that I wantedin particular that I did not get
, and you were very clear aboutthat.
There are plenty of things Idon't know that we I don't.
Yeah, you're gonna have to givesome more context there, pop I
don't know that we didn't.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
I'll be honest.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
I feel like I got on my list, they were handed.
Someone says, hi, I'll behonest, I feel like.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
I got on my list they were handled.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Someone says hi hey.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Shiloh, hey, sha Gotta go to the restroom.
Go, go, go my baby.

Speaker 5 (06:20):
Give us an example Pop.
Let me say I'll start withsomething minor, but let's say
clothing trips, just theadvantages of doing things,
being slower, to give you whatyou wanted and explain to you

(06:46):
more thoroughly how you weregetting it, what sacrifice it
took to get it.
You know, mom often talks abouther dad in particular, who
reminded her almost every stepof the way what she was getting
and how it was being given toher, how it was being earned, so

(07:11):
that she could increase theappreciation for it.
And so I would say I would giveyou more.
I would not be as easy ingiving you things as I was.
I'd make you earn it a littlebit more.
That's coming out of my own life.

(07:31):
I wanted to make sure that youhad what I didn't have and you
had it more quickly than I hadit.
But I would unlearn that Partof that would have to be, for
example, when you got gifts, notChristmas, of course, but when
you got gifts perhaps the nextday or the next week they would

(07:55):
be in disrepair or disuse orthere would be some neglect.
There would not be a highappreciation, would be some
neglect.
There would not be a highappreciation for how you
received it and what it took foryou to get it, but, in short, I
would not give as easily asmuch as I did.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
Go ahead, Rhoda.
So if you look at the outcomeof all three of us, how do you
think that that impacted?
So you're saying what'd you say?
So you're saying you would havedone, you have wanted us to
appreciate more, but how do yousee, how do you see that that

(08:37):
impacted us in a negative light.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
Now, Um, I'm not sure that I could see now that it
impacted you right now, becauseyou've grown to overcome some
things yourself, you work inyourself, you know what it takes
in order to earn things, things.

(09:13):
But I would say, early on Iwould see just the ease.
It was almost like the sameease by which you receive
something was the same ease bywhich it was discarded or unused
.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Is that not?
I mean, to me and Rufus, do youfind this with?
Like, uh, shiloh, who's who isRufus's son, me and my sister's
nephew and, um, our uh, and thenmy parents, uh, youngest
grandchild, he's three, right isthis?
Is this something you see?
I don't know, I'm trying to,I'm.
I'm curious is if this is notjust a like normal child thing,

(09:44):
like that's just what childrendo, because that, you know,
doesn't really matter.
Or is it a how, how, how you'reparented, like you know, if you
, here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Here's the thing Shiloh extremely spoiled, yeah,
extremely spoiled.
He's going to get whatever hewants whenever he wants.
But here's the complicationthat I don't believe Dad is
acknowledging right now.
Shiloh goes to the same schoolthat I went to growing up.

(10:18):
We went to this elite schoolwhere I don't want to say we're
the least fortunate, but, buteveryone else seems to be in a
better financial position.
You never know.
But so I don't want Shilohgoing to school looking like

(10:42):
he's not up to par.
So it may have been the samecase with mom and dad I don't
know specifically what dad'stalking about, but you don't
want to send us to schoollooking like we are not.
Perhaps you know in the sameclass or whatnot.
Not that you want to be someone.
You're not, but I don't want tosend Shiloh to school in

(11:03):
clothes that may reflect ourtrue income, so he might get the
best of the best clothes.
He might get shoes every weekNot really, but he might get new
shoes every month, which iseasier right now because I can
just buy $40 shoes and they'rebrand new.

(11:24):
But that's part of it.
The other thing is, at threeyears old, it just brings a lot
of joy in the house to see asmile on his face.
So, coming back home with newtoys after he just completely
wrecked the house, didn't listento a word.
Me or his mother saidcompletely wrecked, the house
didn't listen to a word.

(11:44):
Me or his mother said had ahorrible report from school and
the next day he gets brand newtoys.
You know, that might be just toadd to the spirit of the home,
because Shiloh is the life ofthe party, he's the life of the
house and we love seeing a smileon his face.
That part is just being a childand not or or um.

(12:05):
Trying to be a good parent andcontribute to his childhood in a
positive way, um.
I think a more difficultquestion would be for malachi
yeah when I was my oldest sonyeah, uh, your oldest nephew and
oldest grandchild, who you knowhe gets spoiled too, and you

(12:28):
know he may not.
He may not bring the sameenergy to the household that
Shiloh does.
He may not be as happy to seedad when he comes home from work
like Shiloh is.
When I come home from work,shiloh is the happiest kid in
the world.
So imagine if I come back witha you know, a $10 toy from the
store.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
It's going to be times 10 and it'll make the
night that much better.
Yeah, malachi expects.
He expects certain things.
I got an A on my report card.
Yeah, you know what am Igetting dead?
You know he's expecting that,yeah, and so then I try to find
ways not to give it to him.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
Can I interject right here, though?
A bit of realism.
Yeah, it is important.
I think it is vitally important, and I had a real advantage
growing up.
I had a real advantage growingup Didn't know it when I was
growing up at all, because myparents' income came from their
own small businesses.

(13:31):
I started working.
They started putting me to workin the store at five years old
and I would stand on Gerber babyfood to even reach the register
After the first day of that.
That was no fun, that was work.

(13:57):
My work at home was work in thestore.
I didn't have to make up my bed, I didn't have to vacuum, I
didn't have to wash dishes wasthe big thing that all my peers
complained about.
I never had to do that, but Idid have to work in the store,
which I didn't like.
I grew to absolute hate, but Inever chose.
That was vital discipline.

(14:19):
In my opinion, parentingsuccessfully is to instill
self-discipline, because allthrough life, what you
definitely will have is to dothings you don't feel like doing
.
When you don't feel like doing,yeah, you don't have that

(14:41):
choice.
You have to do some things.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
And that will go out through life.
So why not get that practice asa child?
I started at five and I have tosay, to the credit of my
parents, I really don't havedifficulty in most things, in

(15:06):
doing what I don't feel likedoing.
Yeah, honestly, I didn't feellike that.
We had a late night last nightand dad came and said, rubbed me
very gently and said darling, Ihate to say this, but we have
to do a podcast today.
And I'm saying are you joking?

(15:30):
But I got up, yes, and I firstsaid you know, it's going to be
10 o'clock really, and he triedto give me 15 minutes.
He's that kind and he tried togive me 15 minutes.
He's that kind I probably neverwould have offered to give him
15 minutes, because it is soinstilled in me that if I have

(15:52):
to do something at a particulartime that I don't necessarily
feel like doing it, I have to doit, and if I have to break a
leg to do it, I'm willing tobreak a leg.
That is not in my leg, that didnot happen, that is not in my
nature.
That got instilled in me.
Now, the thing that I havelearned from my husband, from

(16:17):
your dad, is and I have to thinkabout this all the time is to
do that in terms of parentingwith gentility and I'm careful
not to say with love, because Ilove all of my kids, but I'm not

(16:40):
.
I also, more is caught thantaught, and I caught this lack
of gentility, this realism, frommy dad, who's a product of the
Great Depression.
Yeah, that's, I caught.
That's in me more than anythingelse, and I didn't go through
anything like the GreatDepression.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
But parenting is also setting an example and
realizing that more is caughtthan taught.
That's good.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Papa Jack put her through illegal child labor I
don't know what she's saying andhe was a product of the great
depression.
Yes, and uh, you know that isreflected in mom.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yes, so well, I think it's.
It's.
So.
There's something that um andI've recently been saying this,
I said this to a few peoplelately because something that I
noticed in younger you know inum, something that I noticed in
younger you know in, like ourson Tyson.
He's 10 and he does not likedoing hard things at all.

(17:54):
You know some of the youngpeople that I work with.
They don't like doing hardthings and it's just, it is it.
It's.
It's weird to me becauseeverything that you said, mom,
you're right.
I mean, we caught that from youand we caught it from dad,

(18:16):
because dad grew up in a youknow environment where you
worked hard and grew up aroundentrepreneurship and all that
stuff, and there's a phrase thathe used to say all the time.
I know we'll all remember itthat when I have recently been
saying to people they can't donothing but laughing, like
that's crazy, this idea ofwinners crawl in sick, losers
call in sick, and that's how we,that is how we grew up.

(18:39):
You don't like.
What do you mean?
like, if you can breathe andwalk, go do what you gotta do,
um, or yeah, but I mean likethat changed with kobe yeah,
well, okay, but like now it'slike don't come in, like yeah,
no, but I'm saying, though, thatthe mindset, though, like the
mindset that we grew up with,even during covid, I didn't know

(19:01):
how to not work, I I foundstuff to do because it's like
I'm not, I can't just sit hereand do nothing, like I don't
even know what that kind of lifeis like.
And I think it's because of howwe grew up and the expectation
that we had.
And now I see, and I you know,trying to transfer that to the
younger generation is harder,and so what I mean generation is

(19:32):
harder, and so what I mean, umrufus, roto.
How has that phrase impactedhow y'all move, and even how you
move with, with, with, uh, withparenting or working with young
people, because rota's ateacher, so she works with more
young kids than any of us docombined.
And so how do you, how does howhas that impacted your movement
?

Speaker 3 (19:48):
that phrase go ahead, rona no, go, rufus, you go
first.
Well, okay, I'll go.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Okay, I'll go, I'll go.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
So I now, I don't, I don't know all the science
behind it, but there's actuallylike a I don't know if it's the
prefrontal cortex, I don't knowif it's the prefrontal cortex, I
don't know but scientifically,the way that, what discipline
does to grow our brains and tohelp us to develop, like doing

(20:19):
hard things, it literallydevelops parts of your brain.
Now what parts don't know, butit does.
It is a.
It is a vital piece ofdevelopment.
So now, what you see is kids,even day to day.
You know, I'm in a lot ofclassrooms throughout the day

(20:42):
and I get to see hundreds ofkids every single day,
throughout the day, justlearning and a simple challenge,
like I don't know this problem,this question right here, is a
total shutdown physically, likeyou see them put their head down

(21:03):
.
Shut down physically.
Like you see them put theirhead down, you see them totally
check out the.
The first time that a challengearises and it is, you know, for
me the whole winners crawling,losers calling is very much

(21:25):
instilled in the sense of likethere's no excuses.
So like now, even as anadministrator with adults who
I'm managing is like it's noexcuses.
Like we, we, we come, we giveour best every day, no excuses
If you can't do.
That like I'm a very all ornothing person.
So it's like if I can't do it,then I'm not going to come to

(21:50):
work that day.
I can't give 60%.
It's either zero or a hundredpercent for me and it's like,
and most of the time I'm going ahundred, but that's also not
helping.
Yeah To all.
Like you can't always.
You have to have margin forsomething.
Yeah, it's.
Yeah.
There are times where youshould call in no, there are.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, there's a thing right, so I don't know.
I heard that phrase a lotgrowing up.
Another one that's relevant tome that I that dad used to say
is successful people do whatunsuccessful people don't like
to do yep, yep yep, both greatquotes, yeah, uh yeah, you know,

(22:42):
but uh both both great quotes,but uh, also, you know, at times
they can be quotes.
Maybe you guys received thetraining differently than I did,
because for me, right, one ofthe perks of my job is we get a
cumulative of 30 days of PTO,and some people have been

(23:08):
working with the company foryears and they just don't use it
.
I'm not one of those people.
I'm going to use all 30 days,but I will say, sometimes I use
it creatively and actually 100%of the time I use it creatively
and when I'm not working at work, I choose not to crawl in sick

(23:32):
because I'm actually working onmy side hustle and I need
something else to do sopersonally.
Personally, I'm going to work100% of the time, but make no
mistake about it, at this joband if I ever take interviews
for other jobs, the PCO is veryimportant because I'm going to

(23:53):
need time off to do my own thing, yeah, and I'm going to use
sick days as vacation days,whether I'm sick or not.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
So it's like I think it's applied a little bit
differently in that it's notreally I'm going to go to work
every single day.
It's more like or I'm not goingto go to work every single day,
it's more like or I'm not goingto go into work every single
day, it's more like I'm going toput in work every single day.
Yeah, and also as a parent ofy'all everybody, y'all know,

(24:26):
y'all know Malachi's, you knowdreams and what he's achieving
to be and everything and theydon't know.

Speaker 4 (24:34):
You know dreams and what he's achieving to be and
everything, and luckily, he'sblessed with athletic ability.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
Nothing, you know, he's not LeBron James or
anything like that, but you knowI had a little skill.
We have skill in our family andhis mother's side has that
times 10 on their side, so he'sbeen blessed with an athletic
gift that none of us, or neitheron his other side of the family
they, don't have either.

(25:02):
And so pushing him is orteaching him this principle is
very much appropriate,especially that successful
people do what unsuccessfulpeople don't like to do.
Yeah, because he's trying tomake it to a place where very
few people, no matter howtalented they are, make it.

(25:23):
Yeah.
And so if he's not doing waymore than anyone else, he knows
you know he's not going to beable to make it to where he
wants to go.
Knows you know he's not goingto be able to make it to where
he wants to go.
So I do find myself instillingthat in him even more than I
apply to myself, because there'sno room at his age and for his
goals, for him to take days off.

(25:44):
And so, you know, I definitelythink that's a relevant
principle.
Like mom was saying, more iscaught than taught.
So you know, his mom does agood job of showing him work
ethic.
I think I do a good job ofshowing him work ethic, but his
has to even exceed that.
Once you dad was saying youknow, we may have gotten off

(26:15):
easy in certain, in certain ways, but over time he's seen us be
able to kind of kind ofunderstand how life is and earn
what we want or what we needyeah where is malachi is not
going to be again to make it towhere he wants to go.
he doesn't have time to havethat lack, that lag and then
catch back up right, so he wantsto go.
He doesn't have time to havethat lag and then catch back up
Right, so he has to learn that.

Speaker 4 (26:37):
The reality is too Rufus that no one Shiloh won't
either.
Whatever it is and that workethic is what you're putting
into it he may go the directioneverybody seems to think he's
going, but if he doesn't forsome reason break two feet and

(26:58):
two hands and he just can't dothat, whatever what's in him is
whatever.
Wherever, in my opinion, theLord leads him and the track
that he takes him on, he's goingto recognize.
He's got to invest discipline,self-discipline yes.

(27:19):
He's got to train.
He's got to practice.
Whatever it is, yeah.
Whether it's, you know, itdoesn't matter.
That's the important principle.
Yes, I believe that principlewas instilled in me.

Speaker 5 (27:31):
Yeah, let me say Working in the store.

Speaker 4 (27:36):
I don't like working in the store, but I got the
principle.
Yes, and that's great whatyou're doing.

Speaker 5 (27:43):
What I would say is you know those are.
I think those are bedrockprinciples, I think they're
biblical.
They're not meant to be, though, so dogmatic that there is no
margin, and I think both of you,rhoda and Rufus, expressed that
.
There are times when you aresick you should not go in, and

(28:06):
so forth, but you get thegeneral principle.
And, of course, today, whenI've said that, people recoil,
or a few people recall, at thewinner loser concept.
Yeah, because I'm not sayingyou're a loser, but without

(28:27):
explanation, some people cantake it that way.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Some people can take it that way.

Speaker 5 (28:30):
Yeah, I've often thought about modifying to say
winning is crawling in sick,mediocrity is crawling in sick.
Well, but for people who aremore sensitive because I'm not
calling you a loser, but I'msaying if you do that all the
time, then you are not going tobe successful at whatever you do

(28:51):
.
But I believe in margin Iwouldn't exist without it.
I think you have to have marginfor your spiritual and mental
health, and taking all the daysthat a company gives you is
smart.
I don't encourage people whowork for me not to do that.
I want you to do it because Iknow you're a better person in

(29:15):
doing so.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yeah, I like so this Rufus, the phrase you use
successful people do whatunsuccessful people don't want
to do Is that, did I get thatright?
Yeah?
Yeah, don't like to do?
Yeah, don't like to do.
So.
What I think is because, evenat the backdrop of this current

(29:38):
principle, is this definition ofwhat you think success is, and
I think you know a lot of.
It's interesting.
I don't know that I could havedefined success for myself.
Growing up, I didn't know.
I don't think I would havepinpointed exactly what that
looks like, other than Igraduate and I go to college.

(29:59):
That's about where I, where Icould stop.
You know, um Rhoda, when youwere growing up, what was
success for you?
What did that mean?

Speaker 3 (30:21):
What did that mean?
Success was, I think, in thecontext in which we went to
school and what I sawparticularly Women, moms and
then my own mom like that's howI define success.
So success for me personallywas, yes, going to college was a
piece of that, because we wentto a college preparatory school.
Yeah, um, it was also as awoman.

(30:45):
It was getting married tosomeone successful and having
children.
So it was like getting acollege degree but also making
sure that you find a man who isa good man, who is a successful

(31:06):
man, and having children who canalso follow that path, children
who can also follow that path.
And so, for me, that's what.
That's what.
How I would have definedsuccess for myself.
Okay, I would not have definedsuccess as in the career aspect,

(31:27):
okay.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Interesting, yeah, and I think I would have
Opposite direction.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
I mean I've gone more in that direction than the
other one, and I think I wouldhave opposite direction.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
I mean, I've gone more in that direction than than
the other one, and I think Iwould have.
Probably that's the only way Icould see success was being
successful career-wise and, likeI think that's the way I
defined it success equalssuccess and career.
What did you think um Rue?

Speaker 2 (31:52):
I.
What I did think is the samething of what I do think now,
and it is how much money can youmake per year?
That is how I define success.
How much money you can make peryear, whether that is you have.
So what I took pride in, sowhat I took pride in now I'm not

(32:13):
going to say that, but I didtake pride in I didn't look at
that as a hindrance, I didn'tlook at that as something that

(32:44):
held me back, uh, from making asmuch money as I possibly could.
Now I definitely do.
I'm like I need to go get acollege degree, I need to get a
master's, and that's what I needto do to get to where I want to
go, because I used to look atentrepreneurial ventures and
think that I was going to makeit doing something in the
entrepreneurship way, makingenough money to do whatever I
want to do, which possibly couldstill happen.

(33:05):
But I see how much it can helpto have financial backing, to
have a job that pays enough forme to fund entrepreneurial
ventures, or for me to invest inthe stock market without having
money, or invest in real estateor whatever it may be, instead

(33:28):
of waiting for my music careerto take off, or instead of
waiting for some idea that Ihave to take off without having
the money to market it the moneyfor.
And I took for granted theeducation that I had and that I

(33:57):
had access to, because I wasn'tfocused on getting the grade.
I wasn't focused on that.
I don't, I don't, I'm notfulfilled by a grade, by doing
all of this work and what I getfrom that is an A on a test or
an A on a paper or an A onwhatever on a transcript.
That never hit home for meuntil I recognized oh, I need

(34:19):
that A to get this degree sothat I can work for this Fortune
500 company, so that I can makean extra $150,000, so that I
can fund this entrepreneurialventure that I want to do.
It never really connected forme like that the way it does now
.
And now I see myself.
I'm in sales and if I were tohave a degree I would be on a

(34:42):
different level of sales that Iam as a 36-year-old guy.
That's how I see it now.
So I see success back then it'salways been how much money you
can make, and I can.
That sounds superficial.
It could be, but also I thinkthat's a reflection of

(35:04):
fatherhood.
I think it's like how muchmoney you make is a reflection
of the example you are to thekids.
A reflection of the example youare to the kids.
It's a reflection of discipline.
It's a reflection ofundisciplined people are not
going to make a lot of money Ifyou sit around and you watch
Netflix all day and you drinkand you smoke and you find ways
to barely work.
It's just not going to equal up.

(35:26):
So I can say living adisciplined life is how I look
at success.
But for me it's all measured byhow much money you can make,
and I'm not.
You know it sounds superficial,but that's where I am.

Speaker 4 (35:39):
Maybe?
Yeah.
Let me just add this it's notsuperficial.
Degree is one mean in America,in our American socioeconomic

(36:01):
system, by which you can succeedin whatever Succeed is an
individual definition.
You don't need a degree.
No, you don't.
As far as making money isconcerned, the key to that is
how well it's invested.
Now, if a degree is alimitation to a person
understanding how well youinvest to make the money, make

(36:25):
money.
Money is only the thing thatcan work and it doesn't need
energy, it't need sleep, doesn'tneed food, but you know what it
needs behind it.
What the dollar needs behind itis the thinking, the brain, on

(36:45):
where and how to invest it tomake it make money.
You don't make money.
The best you can do as anindividual is to have a job that
gives you a check and you canwork a little bit harder and get
a little elevation and make alittle bit more on that check.
But in our socioeconomic system, the higher you get, the more

(37:10):
you are required socially tospend.
So the key is not yourindividually making more money,
it's how you think to make yourmoney.
Make money.
Money is what makes money.
The investment is what makesmoney.

(37:30):
Money is what makes money.
The investment is what makesmoney.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
So what I'm saying for me.

Speaker 4 (37:36):
A person with a degree can do that and a person
without a degree can do that.
My dad had a ninth gradeeducation and what taught him
how to invest and make money wasworking his way, feeling his
way, finding his way through theGreat Depression.

(37:57):
That's what did.
He didn't choose to drop out atninth grade, he had to.
And I just want to get thatconcept that's a misnomer A
check.
If you are making $100,000 now,next year, next 10 years,

(38:17):
you're making $250,000, you'realso at a different social level
where, if you're making$250,000, you're interacting
with two people.
That's making that.
That's going to make you spend.
So you can make $100,000,$100,000, and your group that

(38:43):
you're interacting with willdemand, without words, with
actions, that you spend and be apart of that group.
So you cannot work hard enoughto make more money.
The key is investing, yeah, andyou don't have the degree to

(39:03):
invest.
I'm not down in degrees at all.
I got two.
That's not the issue, but oneof the things and I'll just
interact this and then I'll letthe floor go but one of the
things that my sponsoringprofessor in graduate school

(39:25):
asked me when I finished mymaster's and I was trying to
make a decision.
I didn't have any job offers.
I didn't really know what Iwanted to do professionally and
I said well, you know, I'll justgo on and get a PhD.
And he said to me at that timehe asked me a question and he

(39:47):
said Jackie, do you want toteach on the college level what
you know?
I said no, I don't.
If I teach, I want to teach onthe college level what you know.
I said no, I don't.
If I teach, I want to teach onthe kindergarten level.
He said don't waste any moneyon the PhD, you don't need it.
The only thing that youactually need it for is teaching
on a college level.
The rest of it is a waste ofmoney.

(40:09):
So it's not.
Do you get what I'm saying?
Yeah, I get what you're sayingI'm saying.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
I'm saying for me the way I was raised.
In the college preparatoryprogram I have tried
entrepreneurial things and I'vebeen in the workforce and I'm
wired to be able to make moneyin the workforce at jobs that

(40:40):
require degrees.
I'm more suited for the way Iwas raised.
I'm more suited for jobs thatrequire degrees.
That's where I want to be.
That's more suited for jobsthat require degrees.
That's where I want to be.
That's where I want to.
That's the type of jobs that Iwant.

(41:08):
And so when I didn't get thedegree, it made me go on a
different path that I wasn'tnecessarily either raised or
comfortable being so with medoing music for so long and
sticking to it because I don'twant to give up just because I'm
not successful financially.
It never worked out because atthe end of the day, that's not

(41:29):
what I was trained to do.
I wasn't trained business-wiseto be able.
I didn't know the principles onhow I could make it in music.
I knew how to be creative, butthat didn't make the money.
Now I know what it would havetaken to flourish in my music
career and it would have taken alarge the way.
I think it would have taken alarge lump sum of money to be
able to put into differentmarketing avenues, which driving

(41:53):
for Uber and working fornonprofit industries wasn't
going to be enough for.
So for me personally, I'msaying the way I was brought up
was it wasn't what's the wordI'm looking for.
It wasn't.
It wasn't what's the word I'mlooking for.

(42:13):
I don't know the word I'mlooking for, but it wasn't
conducive to the dreams that Ihad.
So if I is, it is anything I'msaying make sense.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Yeah, it wasn't a line, yeah it does.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
So it wasn't a line.
There you go, that's the word,yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, no, I get that.
And so, pop, let me let me askyou this as you're listening to
this and hearing this, these youknow Rufus fleshed his out a
little bit more with success andhearing that and then how mom
was explaining that you knowdegrees andus's experience.

(42:49):
At this point he's seeing Iactually needed that for success
and you know this is what Iunderstood growing up and I
would say that I even it's weirdat the like at this stage of my
life.
Now I think I'm always at theopposite side of you, rufus,
like for what I feel like I'mwired to do, I don't think I

(43:12):
need a degree for it.
I need experience for it, and Igot it.
My degree is fine and, yes, itopens certain doors or it could,
but there's nothing that I'mgoing for that requires that.
And so for you you're like thethings that I actually want to
go for does require it.
I'm just curious, pop, as you'rehearing this, when you think

(43:35):
about how you know your, your,your approach to parenting our
children in a way that helps tocurve our alignment as adults.

(43:58):
I hope that makes sense,because I don't know.
Some of it is like I don't knowyou even know it till you get
to, till you just journeythrough it.
So some of it just might.
You just got to work your waythrough it and figure it out on
the back end.
Or is there a way to unlearnsome things around how you what
to instill in order to, um, inorder for for adult children to

(44:20):
be on a path that makes sensefor them?

Speaker 5 (44:24):
Um, yeah, believe it or not, I understood that, Okay,
um, let me.
Let me go back and say it goeswithout saying in the definition
of success to all of you, Itrust it goes without saying

(44:46):
that success is holisticholistic.
We've been focusing on oneaspect.
The success is to have.
I mean it's three components itis spiritual, it's relational,

(45:24):
it's financial, and all of don'thave a college degree nor a
seminary degree, and to a largedegree that was.
We worked very hard to do that.

(45:46):
With your mom having a graduatedegree, we wanted to make sure
you did that as well, and so itwas not because the degree in
and of itself would guaranteesuccess, but it was the
discipline in receiving thatdegree that would transfer to

(46:13):
life in general.
Yeah, and all of you have donethat.
I mean you have had disciplinewith Abigail, you with music,
son with sports and music, andRhoda with education.
All of you have had that degreeof discipline that is

(46:34):
transferred into your lifeexperiences.
And so I would encourage parentsto, even if you didn't have it
yourself, like my parents didn'tand I was the first in my
family to really be invested into go to a four-year college,

(46:56):
and I disappointed them, I letthem down.
They worked hard to ensure thatI had every advantage to go to
school and I did for three years, but I couldn't get over the
finish line.
That was such a disappointmentto me because I disappointed

(47:18):
them and I carried that into myparenting and said I don't ever
want my kids to have to havethat kind of failure.
I'm going to give him everychance to succeed, no matter
what.
So I think it's important thatparents whether it's education

(47:40):
or whether it's just workexperience that they convey to
their children what successreally is, and that is holistic.
You know, the spiritual, therelational and the financial,

(48:01):
and it's not just one or theother.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Yeah.
So this is for you, dad, andthen this is also for you, rufus
, I.
So when you said youdisappointed them, is that you
saying that you disappointedthem, feeling like you were a
disappointment?
Did they ever say that youdisappointed them?

(48:26):
And then, rufus I'mspecifically tailoring it to
y'all two, because y'all arey'all are actually like two of
the most brilliant people that Ithink y'all on this screen
could say that we know and donot have a degree.
Okay, do not have a degree.

Speaker 5 (48:50):
I got a high school diploma though.
Very good, I got a high schooldiploma, so does that?

Speaker 3 (48:53):
Please, very good, you got a high school degree.
Please, yeah, but now for me, Ihave the most degrees, but I
actually like going throughgetting the degrees.
I never thought about theactual paper degree.
It was the learning for me.
It was also the social aspectfor me that was that's packed in

(49:19):
a piece of paper.
It's also the learning thatcomes from that and the
connections that I was able tomake through that.
Um, but for you y'all you keptsaying like you're a
disappointment.
I've never now I did have thosewords actually come out of

(49:40):
right, those mouths, because Iknow for you, for mom and dad,
y'all have never said that torufus but he had.
It doesn't mean that he doesn'tfelt that.
So, like y'all never saidyou're a disappointment for not
getting a degree, because that'snot actually what y'all believe
.
But you feel that.

Speaker 5 (50:00):
Yes, I do feel that Insecurity.
No, I know it.
My parents were gracious enoughnot to say it and still
supported me.
But I look, they invested, theyspent money they didn't have

(50:24):
and I did not cross the finishline.
I got close, but I didn't crossthe finish line.
They didn't have to say thatwe're disappointed.
You didn't do it.
I just know it and it's notjust self-induced to me, it is.

(50:45):
I didn't, I blew it.
Okay, so I have spent my lifetrying to overcome that, so that
they could be proud in otherways, and I think they've seen
that.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
There you go Ten times, but so that they could be
proud in other ways.
And I think they've seen thatyeah, of course they've seen it
Ten times the cold.
But okay, so for you, rufus, doyou?
And for you, mom and dad, werey'all disappointed in Rufus for
not getting-?

Speaker 2 (51:17):
I don't need the encouragement.
I know they're going to say no.

Speaker 5 (51:22):
No, no, I'm not going to say no.
I'm not going to say no, I'mgoing to say yes.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
No, let me set it up.
Let me set it up.
He overcome.
Yeah, okay, but here's thesetup, because the reality is,
you all also invested in allthree of us to go to college,
specifically like to go tocollege.
We went to a collegepreparatory school to go to

(51:47):
college.
That was everyone that we wentto school with, like to college,
went to college, went tocollege At some point.
They may have not graduated,but they went to college.
And so for you, son Rufus, whatis the?

Speaker 2 (52:10):
did you feel like a disappointment?
And why?
I felt more of a as adisappointment because of the
path I went down instead ofschool.
So the reasons I dropped out ofschool and couldn't get back in
school, I know was adisappointment, whether it was.

Speaker 4 (52:34):
A disappointment to you or to us?
What?
What do you know?

Speaker 2 (52:40):
I know that it was a disappointment to y'all.
I know one thousand percentthat it's a disappointment to
see me on the couch, not inschool, not working, getting
high.
Yeah, I know for sure, smokingweed disappointed you instead of
going to school.
I know for sure.
I know for sure you love andhave, since before he was born,

(53:07):
loved Malachi the day, you knowsince, the idea of me having a
child.
But I do know that the decisionthat went into having a child
before being married, when thatall I was taught was not to do
that, I do know that that wasdisappointing.
You don't have to say it wasn't, I'm not offended, I do know.

(53:30):
So.
I don't think that you weredisappointed by me not receiving
a degree.

Speaker 4 (53:34):
I think that would happen instead of me receiving a
degree.
Let me interject hereDisappointment.
I want to be sure that anybodywho hears this disappointment is
not synonymous with giving upon yeah.
No, I never gave up on you, son, since you're the degree-less

(53:57):
one, I never gave up on that.
Neither one of y'all have adegree, but I never gave up.
Dead serious.
But that may be disappointmentand really.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
That was the question .

Speaker 4 (54:14):
My disappointment was in me.
You can take this as trying toencourage you or not, you know.
Let me give you one examplethat I don't know if any of you,
dad, may remember this, butthere was a lady at the school

(54:36):
you went to Second Baptist,whose husband worked with Dad at
the institution.
He was working at at that timeand she was at Second and she
was in the church.
It was Second Baptist Churchand she wanted she was in
missions church and she wantedshe was in missions.

(55:06):
And she asked me uh, if, forsome project that she was doing,
if in the family life center,in the biggest foyer in that
huge campus there, if, if theycould take your picture and they
didn't have access at theschool, which is when the
picture would have been taken.
But the three African-Americankids and they wanted to take

(55:28):
your picture, son, and put it onthat whole wall as part of a
mission project.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Jesus no, that's part of a DEI mission project Jesus.
No, that's part of a.
Dei mission project.

Speaker 4 (55:40):
I said no, I thought about it.
I said give me some time tothink.
Now you at that time, with yourpersonality that I think is
coming out very clearly here,would have loved to have seen
that, and I know you would haveloved to have seen that and I
know you would have loved tohave seen it.
But today you would have beenbeating me up about that.

(56:03):
Yes, I said no.
She said are you sure theybegged?
Her husband worked on that athis place of employment and I
said no, we're not going to doit.
I came to that because that wasprojecting right away that you

(56:28):
were and you would have lovedjust seeing your picture at that
time without really recognizingwhat it reflected.
But later he would have becomethe poverty stricken, poor,
disadvantaged kid, and all threeof them.
That really wasn't the case.

(56:48):
No, not at all.
So it's a matter of the choicesat the time that was made.
Mean, that was.
I just wanted to make thatpoint.
I I didn't mean to throw youthrow you off.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Just to, just to reiterate, just to reiterate I'm
sorry say it again just toreiterate for the audience I do
not think your plan for me wasto receive an appointment to the
United States Naval Academy andsay no, I would like to get
high and not pursue theeducation at one of the world's

(57:30):
premier institutions.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Right, no, let's be clear, that is that was yes,
Like I think, and I think thatthat's the no, that wasn't.
I think we can be honest aboutthat and, like mom said, it
wasn't that there is adifference between being
disappointed and giving up on,and I think that is and that,

(57:57):
and so that's very clear, that,that, that there was no giving
up.
But we can be honest about, asparents, we are disappointed in
children, right, and and I thinkand I think, mom, you made a
great point not just in children, but sometimes disappointed in
yourself because of, sometimes,the choices that children make.
So you know, I think, I thinkthat what I, you all work

(58:19):
through a process of, and ushaving conversations like this

(58:42):
all the time, of hearing wherewe are in our perspectives as
adults, that we didn'tunderstand when we were younger,
even when y'all were younger,less experienced parents, and
understand that you're not goingto everything, that two things
are true Everything that yourchild does you won't like, and

(59:02):
everything that you do you won'tlike, but it doesn't mean that
it has to turn out bad Like it's.
It is, and I think that'ssomething that that is important
to unlearn for for parents,people who are going to be
parents.
You're not going to be, you'renot going to get everything
right, even if in the moment,you think it's the right

(59:23):
decision.
Down the line you may be like,oh, maybe we should have changed
that.
Like I think that's been thetheme of some of what you've
been saying, pop Like, yeah, Iprobably shouldn't have given
them the amount of things thatthey wanted.
In my perspective, that maybeshould have worked harder for
this or, you know, waited forthese things, uh, but at the end

(59:43):
of the day, it wasn't a failureof your, your, on your part, um
, and there are things that youabsolutely did, that were right,
but the, I think the, the, theway to measure that is looking
at things over time and not justin the moment, because the
moments don't always measure up.

(01:00:04):
That's going to be the casebecause we're human, but over
time, things can turn out better.
We all have that story, thosestories of, in certain moments,
as children, as parents, evenwith y'all, even as grandparents
, I've messed up, like, or Idon't think, I don't think this

(01:00:26):
was right, or they have messedup and they shouldn't have done
this, this and that, but then,10 years down the line, it's
like well, those things ended upmaking them better or putting
something in them that maybethey couldn't have if they had
always been successful, and Ithink the other side of success

(01:00:48):
is what we would call failure.
But I don't always think it'sfailure, it's just learning.
Pop, what were you about to say?

Speaker 5 (01:00:57):
Yeah, I agree, I agree wholeheartedly.
Now, as Son alluded to before,it's a failure to me Now it may
not be to you, but all parentscan say the overriding grace of
God and I try to remind myselfof that the overriding grace of
God will override mistakes.

(01:01:19):
His grace will overridemistakes.
Maybe I knew and maybe I didn'tknow, but it doesn't matter.
God and grace of God will bringchildren to the point, frankly,

(01:01:42):
where he's brought you,irrespective of our parenting,
and he's brought you to thisplace.
I'm proud of all of you and son,even though you and I only have
a high school diploma, you arestill, when it comes just to
money, you are in the as far asa household income.
You are not average as far asthat's concerned.

(01:02:06):
So now that's just aspect ofmoney.
But I'm proud of the life youhave, the kids, what you're
instilling in them, but that'shuman beings doing as much as
they can, that's humanresponsibility.
But then sovereign power of Godis doing what we can't do, and

(01:02:28):
so that overriding grace hasbrought us all to where we are.
And I think parents need torecognize that, even when you
know you failed or don't eventhink you failed, and others say
you haven't failed and you mayknow in your heart of hearts no,
I would not learn that Eventhough it turned out for the

(01:02:50):
good, it is still the overridinggrace of God that gets us over
the hump it is still theoverriding grace of God that
gets us over the hump.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
So I'll end on this.
It's kind of a big question,but I want to end on it because
I think it speaks to thegenerational diversity on this
call.
So, rhoda, I'll start with youspecifically, because I know
you're going to love thisquestion.
What cycles do you see?
Oh, I know, I know, I knowRhoda loves these questions.

(01:03:23):
Uh, what cycles can you?
Can you um see, through yourobservation of being in
education and seeing you knowyoung people and being, um, uh,
young people today, and uh, also, just in just with your
personal experience need to bebroken with parenting today.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
Oh, with parenting today I thought you were talking
about with our specific family.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Well, I mean, yeah, so I want to use that as a
backdrop, right?
So use, use the experience here, but also your, your own
personal experience in educationand just what things that you
see.
What are some important cyclesthat need to be broken across
generations, that are persistent, that are not helpful?

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
I think one of the biggest things is is taking
responsibility, ownership foryour actions, and a lot, of, a
lot of times, what I'm seeingnow is and part of the reason
why educators have such is sucha fight every day is because we

(01:04:37):
don't have the backing of manyfamilies and a lot of times,
like if we're having, you knowwhatever type of it could be,
any issue you know happeningwith the student, a common
response from a family isblaming the adult and not

(01:05:00):
putting responsibility on thechild and teaching them that
concept.
I think the other thing is likemaking sure that you are the
dominant teacher of yourchildren, not the phone.
Once you hand a child a phone,you have handed them the entire

(01:05:21):
world and that is their teachernow.
And so then what happens iswhat we're seeing a big thing it
actually parents your child foryou and it allows for you, as
the adult, to not have to be inthe weeds of teaching your child

(01:05:48):
all the little things.
And that's one thing that, likeyou know, with mom, I am seeing
every single thing she does.
That's just her naturalinclination and you know, and
that's what grandma, her mom,did.
Everything is a teachablemoment, every single part of

(01:06:09):
every day, like, and that was,and we don't.
We didn't realize growing upthat everything that we know to
do is literally taught to the tohow we hold our toothbrush, to
yes, how you know like, yeah,brush your gums, brush your

(01:06:29):
tongue, like.
These are things that thesmallest things that she would
teach us how to do that is beingmissed now.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
Yeah, that's good, Rufus, what about you?
And then mom and dad.
I'm going to reframe thequestion for y'all.
So after he answers, let mereframe the question.
Rue, what about you?

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
So, first of all, I was spoken like a true auntie.
That is the same energy shegives me, even though she
encourages me as a parent.
Rhoda will get on me for it.
That's how all of them have fun.
They're all playing phone gamesand there's nothing else going

(01:07:22):
on.
You don't want to just leavethem out.
That's one, wait, that's one,but two.
That phone.
It does get me in troublebecause one thing I don't recall
growing up.
I don't recall my parents beingwrong.
I know they were wrong and nowthat I'm a parent I know that
they had moments where theyprobably went in the back and

(01:07:43):
was like did I handle thatcorrectly?
Maybe I was wrong to do thisand they probably were dealing
with that as well.
I never saw it and I rememberwhen I was in college or even
later in life, when I realizedsomething that mom or dad told
me, I was like wait, thatdoesn't add up, that's not right

(01:08:04):
.
But at the time I would nevereven think that they were wrong.
They were Google.
The problem is I find myselfwith Malachi, my oldest, and
even Shiloh, like they call meout in real time.

(01:08:24):
That's not right, dad.
I mean I'll say something.
I'll say something is red andthey'll look it up immediately
and see that it's blue, and Ihave no idea but to kind of just
shrink myself in the moment andbe like you know what 12 year
old, you are correct, and so.

(01:08:46):
So that is.
That is something that you haveto navigate, and the pride of
going to my child every otherday and being like all right,
you were right, I was wrong.
It's very challenging, but thatphone, like Rhoda is saying,
does teach them a lot.
I will say there's a lot ofgood.

(01:09:08):
I know Rhoda knows that too.
Being around kids, things thatyou see, whether it's TikTok or
whatever app they're looking at,that may teach them things that
I didn't even know how to teachthem.
Or Malachi may teach us hey,his job is to do the kitchen
every single night.
He's taught us so manydifferent creative ways on how

(01:09:30):
to clean grease out of pots thatI did not teach him.
I say, son, you have to do itlike this, or else this is going
to clog up the dishwasher.
And, dad, if you just add alittle bit of lemon juice and a
little bit of this, take this.
Mr Scrub and do this, it comesright off.
I'm like it doesn't work likethat.
Well, dad, why did I just do it?

(01:09:52):
And it worked like that, youknow?
So it's just like oh, oh, okay,you're right, um, so those
things are challenging, but atthe same time, um, at the same
time, she does have a point inthat it is tough to teach social
values, family, family time,family value, like you lose a

(01:10:14):
lot by giving in to the new wayof the world in 2025, where kids
do get phones at early ages.
There is disadvantages.
I do see parents that stillhold out and their kids don't
get a phone, and I see thebenefits that that has as well.
But I kind of see both sides toit.

(01:10:36):
So I don't know if I probablydidn't even answer the question.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
I did want to say that.
No, you answered it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:41):
I have to say this in rebuttal I am not saying, I'm
not taking a stance on when togive a child a phone.
I'm just saying or if they needa phone, or whatever.
What I'm saying is the phonecannot and should not be the
primary and first teacher ofanything.
The only reason that Mally wasable to come back and tell you

(01:11:03):
that is because you all taughthim that the dishes must be done
, that the kitchen must be clean, whatever.
So now I'm looking, so nowthat's a supplement to your
teaching.
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah, it can't be the primaryand it has become a primary
teacher for many, many kids yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Last thing I want to say about Rhoda as an auntie, I
try to have authority over mykids.
It's also like and my mother,my mother backs me, she, she has
.
You know, I'm a reflection ofmom in a lot of ways.
When parenting Malachi, youhave to earn everything that you

(01:11:49):
, that you are given.
And if you get in trouble atschool, which Malachi is in a
rebellion, you know he's kind ofin a rebellious stage right now
, 14 years old, which Malachi isin a rebellion.
He's kind of in a rebellionstage right now at 14 years old.
And so we're taking things awayfrom him.
Whether we take his phone, wewithhold some of his allowance.
He may want something to buysomething, and it doesn't happen
.
Let me tell you what Rhoda doesand Malachi knows how to take

(01:12:12):
advantage with that phone.
So Malachi will get a certainallowance per month and if he
doesn't get a grade, if he getsin trouble at school, if he
doesn't handle his business oranything like that, get a bad
report from a teacher.
I'm not going to give you thatallowance.
And a lot of times with hisallowance he'll buy things off
this TikTok store that arepretty cool gadgets.

(01:12:32):
I can't remember what he wanted.
I think he wanted a hat orsomething like that to wear to
school.
He didn't take care of business.
No, you're not getting yourallowance for this at all.
This guy goes behind my back hey, auntie, text Rhoda, and
without me even knowing, I justsee a hat show up at my door.

(01:12:53):
How did you get this hat?
He don't want to tell me.
He don't want to tell me how hegot the hat.
I have no idea how he got themoney to get the hat until I go
through his phone and check hiscash app and see who gave him
the money.
Without telling me, withoutknowing what's going on in our
house.
Here's a hundred dollars,nephew, you can have it anytime,

(01:13:13):
you know so.
So all this stuff she's talkingabout, she does not have my
back, she does not support metrying to be a great parent and
she funds my.
She funds the rebellious natureof my child.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
Yeah, good, all right .
Yeah, yeah, that's very good,okay, so, all right.
So, mom and dad, I have onelast question for you all and
I'm going to reframe it a littlebit what cycles do you hope?
And, mom, I'm going to have youanswer this first what cycles

(01:13:51):
do you hope are broken with ourparenting our children?
Broken with our parenting ourchildren?
What do you hope changes in theway, or what do you hope stays
the same and doesn't change,because you think it doesn't
need to change as far as usparenting our children?

Speaker 4 (01:14:13):
Well, when I reflect on things that I did that I was
proud of and things that I didthat I'm not proud of, I was
thinking.
I've thought many times whenone was going through what I
would consider negative cyclesor cycles that I would prefer

(01:14:34):
that he had not gone through, Ithought about one instance that
repeated itself in ourrelationship, sons and mine in
particular, that exited theother three of you.
I worked part-time at theschool you went to and I did.

(01:14:59):
Carpool was one of the thingsthat I did and I remember almost
I did carpool.
I don't know so many days.
We had a couple of days a weekwhere we had to do carpool each
teaching, and Rufus was outthere with me, as all of you

(01:15:21):
were.
He had specific instructions onwhat to do when I'm doing garpu
, he did absolutely the opposite.
He just literally did not obeymy rules on what to do while I'm
standing outside on the walkwayreceiving and delivering other

(01:15:43):
kids to the cars.
And I have thought so many timesthe principle that I'm trying
to bring out, so I don't forgetit, bring out so I don't forget
it is parent your child, parentthat child individually, based
on his particular needs.
Yeah, and I said in my mindmany times over again when he

(01:16:08):
was out there, sort of if I hadjust done what I was
instinctively wanted to do grabhim, take him to the bathroom
and wear his behind out.
That would have slowed him up.
But he knew number one.
We were in an environment thatdidn't believe in that number

(01:16:32):
one, in spanking or anything,and so he would just flat run
all over the place knowing I'mgiving rufus.
You know better, don't do that.
That's as far as I go.
When my instinct was to grab him, tell miss joe, who was my

(01:16:52):
other partner you can handle my.
I got to go to the bathroomwith this boy and just and he
was going to scream till thewhole school would hear it and I
, if I had ignored that I'msaying to myself years later and
just wore him out.
But I didn't want to defy thesocial standards and cause major

(01:17:17):
embarrassment for me, you andRoland Dad, and you know they're
saying that ignorant mom, whatis she doing?
Doesn't she know some otherkind of psychological tactic to
use?
No, I didn't.
All I did was beat him,basically, and I kept.

(01:17:41):
I would have thwarted his path.
Dear Lord, forgive me, but Ididn't do that with you and
Rhoda, but I needed to do thatwith him and I did.
Yeah, yeah, wow Is?
Each child is an individual andyou got to parent him

(01:18:02):
accordingly.

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
I think, what I'm, what I'm hearing, what I've
heard specifically so far, evenRufus he was talking about the
need to humble yourself as aparent because your child might
be teaching you.
Rhoda was talking about theidea of not letting the phone be

(01:18:26):
the primary teacher of yourchild.
Those are cycles that have tobe broken.
We can't have too much pride asa parent and you can't give
away too much responsibility.
And then from you, mom, I'mhearing that individually,
parent your child.
Don't ignore the unction toparent children the way you know

(01:18:53):
they should, because of, maybe,societal pressures or maybe it
not being the same as otherchildren, because you don't know
what that decision might do fortheir future, right?
So, pop, I want to give you thelast word on this.
What unlearning, what cycle,what mindset change do you hope

(01:19:16):
is the case, or mindset, maybenot change again, but it could
be something that you hope iskept throughout our parenting,
as we continue to have children.
I raise children.

Speaker 5 (01:19:32):
All right.
So I'm going to read Ephesians,chapter six, verse four, and I
hope this continues because Ithink you're doing it.
And now a word to you parentsDon't keep on scolding and
nagging your children, makingthem angry and resentful.
Rather, bring them up with theloving discipline the Lord
himself approves, withsuggestions and godly advice

(01:19:56):
with suggestions and godlyadvice, whether it's being an
aunt, a rota, whether the two ofyou being parents.
I want to see that continue,because I think you're doing
that instinctively by notscolding and nagging,
individualizing your children,picking them up when they're

(01:20:17):
discouraged, remembering yourown failures.
I think I'd love to see youcontinue along that path.
I wish you would get theChristmas spirit that you were

(01:21:03):
raised with in your children andnot commercialize Christmas,
but rather their birthdays, andso I'm holding out hope that I
think you're trying to balanceit a little bit, but I would
love to see you come all the way, full force, and say you know
what?
We're not going to do anythingfor you on Christmas unless it's
related to the wider kingdom,but on your birthday you are the

(01:21:25):
center of attention.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
So that's what I hope you know I got to say I do.
I do recognize what you reallyaccomplished by doing that and I
recognize, like I said in frontof us, you presented it.
You presented the reason of usnot getting Christmas gifts.
But now that I'm a father, Iunderstand the true reason and

(01:21:52):
it's because the $1,500 that I'mspending on Christmas gifts
could be going elsewhere and Icould be saving that money and I
could frame that as you knowwhat we don't get presents on
Jesus's birthday.
I understand completely whatyou did there, dad.
I understand it completely.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Oh, my God, all right, so y'all, thank you so much.
This has been, this has beenonce, what one of a kind podcast
.
This is definitely the firsttime I had as many people on
here at one time, and this isthe first time that we have been

(01:22:33):
on as a whole family, and so Ihope that you, uh, you all, have
gained something of thisconversation.
Um, I think we all have, uh,and just so you know, these
types of conversations.
We have these times 10, all thetime in real life, around our
kitchen table and, um, it's what, what has what has become

(01:22:53):
normal for us?
Huh, dining room table.
Okay, yeah, so there you go,all right.

Speaker 5 (01:23:04):
I'm not sure how healthy it is for people to look
in on us doing family therapy.
It's already done.
It's already done.
We're working through our ownissues.
We are Hopefully biblically andviscerally, but I'm sure people
will appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
Oh, people will definitely appreciate this.
I do.

Speaker 3 (01:23:24):
For the record, this was actually not even deep for
us at all.

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
This is very mild.
I will say this is very mild.
I love it.
I think it's just enough forthe audience.
I don't think they need anymore.
I think we've done what we'resupposed to do, and so this is
y'all.
Keep tuning in to the UnlearnedPodcast.
As you know, we're growing ourcommunity of unlearners, and so

(01:23:51):
if this was valuable to you,make sure to share it.
Let other people know, don'tkeep it to yourself.
And keep tuning in for theweeks to come, for the next
series and our followingepisodes.
We appreciate y'all.
Thank you, family, and so let'skeep unlearning together so
that we can all experience morefreedom, peace.
Thank you once again forlistening to the Unlearned

(01:24:19):
Podcast.
We would love to hear yourcomments and your feedback about
the episode.
Feel free to follow us onFacebook and Instagram and to
let us know what you think.
We're looking forward to thenext time when we are able to
unlearn together to move forwardtowards freedom.
See you then.