Unlearning Parenting: Your Adult Child’s Behavior is NOT Your Failure!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
hello everybody and welcome once again to the
unlearned podcast.
I'm your host, ruth abigail akara, and this is the podcast
that is helping you gain thecourage to change your mind so
that you yes, you can experiencemore freedom.
And, uh, I am so glad, so glad,to have back in the building my
brother, my, my sister, patrickand Shemika Harrington.

(00:28):
How you doing.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
All been good, alive and thrive.
Come on alive and thrive.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
That's what I like to hear.
For those of you that are newerto the podcast, this is not the
first time they have been onthe podcast.
We've done a couple of prettyawesome conversations.
These are truly two um, these,these are my big brother and big
sister.
They, they are, they mean somuch to me.
They have so much wisdom.
Um, have lived a lot of life,uh, and they have a lot to give.

(00:56):
One of the ways they give backis through their coaching.
Uh, they do marriage coaching.
So, for those of y'all that areinterested in you know,
thriving and leveling up yourrelationship, you- need to look
up um who we need to look up hiswife
her husband I was getting there.
I was getting there.
Just give me a minute.
Okay, I was getting there.
Uh, his wife, her husband,they're on Instagram, they're on

(01:18):
YouTube, um, and yourinformation is on there.
Is that right?

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, so, yeah, so, uh, it's kind of off a little
bit, but on instagram it's hiswife, her husband, 97, uh, and
on youtube it's his wife, herhusband, and his wife is one
word and her husband is one word, and, uh, facebook is with him,
same way 1997, that's wheny'all got married.
Yes, so damn they got they gotmarried in the 90s.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Some of y'all weren't even born in the 90s.
Look at that.
Oh, and we got a websitewwwhiswifeherhusbandnet.

Speaker (01:50):
Wwwhiswifeherhusbandnet .
And there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Okay, so they've been married for a long time and
also you know what they havefive children, and you know why
that's important?
Because we're talking aboutparenting.
This particular series, ifyou're jumping in for the first
time, is Unlearning Parenting Ihave.
It's weird.
I became a parent about alittle over two years ago with a
bonus son who lives with usfull time and I have been

(02:19):
learning.
Right, right you know what I'msaying.
So some of this is going to befor me, so you know, and some of
this is going to be for me, soyou know some of this is going
to be for people and some of itwill be for both of us.
But I've actually had a lot ofpeople reach out to me.
It's weird, I'm like about thething hey, can you talk about
parenting?
It's not something that I hadthought about, particularly

(02:41):
adult parenting, which is youknow where you guys are in your
seasonal life, parenting adultchildren, which is a weird term,
by the way.
I just realized that, but likeyou know that, so that was
that's interesting.
So we wanted to talk about itbecause then, we got like
different generations, raisingfolk that are, and it's that,

(03:03):
but it's, it's this weird, likeI don't even know how to
describe it.
Um, everything in the world ischanging really fast, to the
point to where I think it makesthe generations feel further
apart than they actually arebecause our lives are so
different, like we're, we're,you know, even I grew up in a

(03:23):
digital age, but I what?
But not calling what they calla digital native, but raising a
10 year old, he's a digitalnative, but it's not like.
I mean, it's not like I'm 65,right, I mean I'm in my 30 and I
get it.
I know how to, how to use it,but my mindset is very different
.
Um, and things happen soquickly, even in 10 years.

(03:46):
The world that he knows is verydifferent.
So imagine, those of us thatare older how much change we've
had to figure out and go throughand raise children in these
rapidly changing eras.
So let me just start there.
Like you know so, your oldestis how old 30.
30.
There, like you know so, youroldest is how old 30, 30 so that
she was so all right, so 30 manso in 30.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
If you don't mind, may I give all the ages, because
this oh yes, let's do that, yes, all right.
So we have five children, threedaughters, two sons, and their
their ages are 30, 28, 24, no 25.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
She'll be 26 this year.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Okay, then 24 and 22.
So that's every two years, twoand a half years, so 30, between
30 and 22.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Five between 30 and 22.
Y'all are in the Gen Z eraY'all are like Gen Z parents all
in with the Generation Z, sowho's?

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Generation Z Our children.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Being raised by Generation X.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Correct, correct, interesting right, interesting
Right.
So so like okay, let's, let'sjust start there.
What is that?
What are the like, what arejust the generational
differences that are that yousee reoccurring on a regular
basis, particularly now thatthere are adults, like do you
see a difference between you at22 and them at 22?

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Now I will say you mentioned something earlier that
I did want to to highlight, if,if I could say, the generation
like seeing them.
Now we are in an era ofautomated, accelerated, so it's
like it's just yeah, everythingis already set, fixed and it's
moving yeah before we can evencatch on, we're like okay, wait
a minute, wait, wait, wait waitwhat.

(05:47):
So now, as Gen Xers, we arelearning to adapt and adjust and
to me, in order to be of greatbenefit to your children, you
have to be willing to beadaptable, adjustable.
It doesn't mean that somethingis wrong with what you learn,
because I believe we needed thatto maybe help them to be

(06:10):
grounded and, by the same token,we need our children to help us
to pick up the pace Right, andthat's a part of bridging that
gap in other generations.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Okay, and I think our children caught the last in
terms of education.
Like, our children know how towrite in cursive, we taught them
how to write in cursive.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Huh, okay.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
Today's generation.
I don't think that learning howto write in cursive is
necessary, because you can justX or click a box or whatever and
the system will create its ownsignature and you can say, yes,
I'm cool with that signature,but.
But our children caught thelast part where they actually
physically had to learn how towrite.

(06:59):
When I'm growing up, there's noclicking at all.
Everything is even when you're.
When you're doing lifeinsurance or whatever
documentation comes, a personwill physically come to your
house.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Now, when I'm doing life insurance, I don't even
have to be in the house with you.
Yep, I could just do a Zoomcall and we'd go from there.
So those are a lot ofdifferences, I think, even
though it's kind of out of thekind of a little bit of ways,
but it is still kind of givenhow they're they're learning now
, as opposed to how we learned.

(07:33):
Yeah, coming up, you know whatI'm saying.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
So how does that?
How does that impact how youteach them?

Speaker 3 (07:40):
Hmm.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
I have opted to slow down.
I have opted to slow down.
I have told I have stoppedapologizing so much, for how can
I say like being old fashioned?

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
Okay, and so doing my best as a mother to still drop
little nuggets within thisgeneration so that it doesn't
get lost.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Give me an example.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
All right, so you know everything is digital, it's
you know, online, kind of likewhat Patrick was saying.
But I still journal, likeactually use pen and paper, and
I teach them to do the same,like don't miss the art of
putting it on, putting ink andpaper together.
It makes you slow down and rest.

(08:36):
It's less distraction.
It's not to take away from theapp, because the notes app is
good.
Don't neglect.
You'll use those skills thatyou have learned and acquired
because that's your advantageover maybe the next generation.
That's good, that's really good, that's really good.
It's more so teaching or showingthem that it's all advantages

(09:00):
yes still being flexible andadaptable again to be able to
intercept and disconnect,because that's where our sauce
is I think jim ron saidsomething.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
Uh, I said this last time that to think is to put it
in ink.
And so we encourage them interms of writing something down
because, for whatever reason, itcrystallizes and I'll tell them
that I don't know why, I don'tknow how it works, but for some
reason it crystallizes betterwhen you physically write.

(09:30):
So, even when I'm talking tothem, I'm saying you know, take
notes or you know, write downyour vision or write down your
goals.
Don't type it Like don't type itdon't put it in the keyboard,
and so I am encouraging them.
You can do that, but do it thisway first and just like, go
with it and see how that feels,and then there's feedback.
You can have a conversation.

(09:50):
You know, did you like itbetter?
Whatever my son was taking histest for, to get his I think it
was his private pilot, hisprivate pilot license, and he
was just going with the digitalpart and I said do me this one
favor, just work with me, justdo me this favor.

(10:12):
I want you to try it this way.
The way you were doing wasn'tworking.
Try it this way for me.
Let's just see, let's justfigure it out.
I said write it down, write thestuff down.
And because he tried it andtested and it proved to be true,
it proved to work he's doing itnow for all of the other tests

(10:33):
that he has to take in hisflight school.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, so so I like what you say.
You said, let's just try it.
It wasn't a demand or a commandright.
You didn't say it in that wayand I think you know, I think
one of the things, that one ofthe transitions, I say this, I
say this on the child side ofthings, not- the parent.
I haven't paired an adult childbut I've been one and I've been

(10:57):
an adult child underneath myparents' roof and I remember
there was one day I came insideand, god bless it, my mom is
dynamic, and so when she'sfrustrated, you know it.
And so I came into the houseand something was out of place
and there's nothing that shehates more.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Let's get into it Right.
Something's out of place.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
I walk into the house I'm coming from work and she
just goes in and I'm like yo,like like what?
And I immediately felt like Iwas 12, right like, I was like,
but I said hold on.
You grown and so I.
So I had to.
And I said in a very respectfulI said, mama, I'm about to go
upstairs.
I don't know what you, whatyou're talking about, but when

(11:42):
you get to a place where we canjust have a conversation, I can
help you.
But I said I can't do this.
I can't do this right now itcame in a very commanding,
demanding kind of way, and so Iimagine for my mother, as it
would be for a lot of parents,that making that transition from
a command to a conversation hasto be hard.

(12:04):
Like, is it hard?
And if so, what makes it hard?

Speaker 3 (12:08):
It's hard on a parent because we've been used to
saying it one way.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
And we have to make the transition in our minds that
they're grown, they're not ontheir own, but they're grown.
Or my wife said you ain'treally grown until you're on
your own, so that they areadults.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
They're not grown until I'm gone.
Okay, my fault.
I'm gone, glory, and I say that, and I say that because it's
not to say that I'm trying torun their life, but the truth of
the matter, as long as we arehere as parents, we still here
to help, train and help youwhere you are.

(12:49):
So the assignment really isnever complete.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
If you're a good parent.
If you're a good parent, thenthrow 18 out the window, Right.
That's what.
I thought, when they get 18,they're on their own.
That's what I thought.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
When they get 18, it startslike real parenting starts
because you can't really give,you can't.

(13:17):
I'll say it this way you can'tforce rules and regulations on
them anymore.
Now, if they're in my house, Ido have a standard and rules and
regulations.
But check this out I can't makeyou stay here.
I cannot physically force youto stay, which I know is
probably a better place for youto be, but I can't make you do
that.
But I can set these things,these standards, in place that I

(13:41):
hope you would be considerateabout what's going on in the
house that I am the father of,you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
When did you, when did you come to that
understanding that I like whatyou said, real parenting doesn't
start until they turn 18.
I think that's interesting andI'm curious as to how many
people would agree and how manypeople disagree.
Because you can't, you don'tknow, you don't know what your,
what your, what you haveactually put in them until it's
tested right, until they are,until you no longer can hold

(14:12):
them.
So it's like when did that come?
When did that realization cometo you?

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Let me, let me lob it .

Speaker 2 (14:23):
I'm going to give her a lob, I bet.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
I'm going to let it rip.
My oldest, my oldest, decidedthat she wanted to go and live
with a guy that that I know, Iknow was not for her.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Knew.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
I knew, come on, past tense, come on.
I knew wasn't for her.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
And it took me a minute because I'm going through
and part of me wanted to makeher stay, but then I realized I
can't, although I know thisjoker is not right.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Legally.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
I can't make her stay .
If I make her stay, I amagainst.
I'm going against the law now,and that would be kind of like
kidnapping my own daughter to dowhat's right, and I can't do
that.
Yeah, that took me.
That made me say wait a minute,hold up.
This is a new space for me.
This is a new process, becausewhat was happening, her choice

(15:32):
and my convictions werecolliding and at that point I
had to respect her choice.
But I had to get her tounderstand I need you to respect
my convictions.
And she decided well, hey, Ilike my choice better than your
conviction.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
She literally our child literally told us because
we were like maybe we're badparents, maybe we didn't do it
right.
We're going through our.
What did we go wrong?
She said no, you guys are goodparents.
I just don't want what you'reteaching.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
You don't want to do it.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Pause, pause, pause, pause.
Because that right there, Ithink you're helping somebody.
I really do, because somebodyhas heard that and don't know
what to do with that, right?
What do you do when your childrejects what you've taught them?

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah, I got some information.
What you've taught them?
Yeah, shemika, take it fromthere.
I respect it.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
You keep going.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
I respect it Now, face to face.
Hmm, you know what?
I respect it.
That's nice, hey, and then Ican do it by respect.
I appreciate you telling me Now, later on that night, when it's
just Shemika and I, I'm crying,I'm bawling, I'm praying, I
don't know what to do.

(16:51):
Like God, I need help in thisarea.
What did I go wrong?
So fortunate, and I'm beatingmyself up, but at the same time,
I had to to her or to the child, I had to just say I respect it
.
Behind the closed doors, whenme and my wife in the bedroom,

(17:11):
I'm bawling, crying because Iknow what she's about to face
with this decision, I thoughtyou were going to say something.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
That was the same thing I was getting ready to say
.
You have to you, you, you learnto respect their choices, and
that is a part of that youngadult parenting.
It's actually where you nowhave to begin to flesh out what
you have actually taught beforethem.
You know, it's like you knowthis.

(17:41):
This is the moment that we were, we've been trying to get you
to.
This is the whole.
Benchmark.
This is the moment that we were, we've been trying to get you
to.
This is the whole benchmark.
This is the ta-da Right and sowhen they finally do make the
decision or the choice, and theyare fully aware of the
consequences that come with it,then you step back and you give

(18:01):
them.
You give them the option, andthen, and then, this is the
other thing.
Now you have to go back and youhave to assess okay, how am I
going to fit still in this role,because I still love my baby I
remember holding you, I remembertelling you I remember getting
you through and I am not do my.
We have to do our best to say,OK, how, how can I stop this

(18:26):
investment from dying or comingto an end?
This is not how I pictured it.
This is not the dream.
This is not the return oninvestment that I dreamed about.
So now how are we going to nowfit into this whole scheme of
things?
That looks like being quiet.
That's different, because as amother, I always had a say.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
And.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
I always had my way so to speak.
Like this is how I want thedishes and this is how I want
you to show up and these are theclothes you're going to wear
and these are the people youknow you're going to be with.
But now it's like you know.
No, I want to give this a try.
It's like OK, making sure thatwe continue to send a text
message.
When they don't want to hearour voice.
It's when they don't respond tothe text message, you still

(19:09):
send up a prayer.
You talk less to them and moreto God about them.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
I was hoping you was going to say that.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
That's good, and so parenting this is the thing.
I know that we say I'm notmaking the podcast spiritual,
but this is the song.
We spiritual people Go aheadGood stuff.
So when we say Heavenly Father,we say it, but we don't really
think about the role of himbeing a parent to the world.

(19:42):
Yeah, these beautiful people,nation, nationalities, cultures,
eras all of that.
He is the ultimate parent.
He has given us free will whenwe become his children.
Friendship is the ultimateright Between parents.

(20:04):
You want to be able to connectwith your children and your
parents on a trusting friendshiplevel, but it can't start there
.
It has to transition and shiftthere, and so this is where the
awkwardness comes in.
All shifts, all transitions areawkward and, for whatever
reason, as parents we have atendency to think that it's just

(20:28):
supposed to be automatic,seamless, and I am guilty as
charge of that, because you readthe word, you pray, you do all
of the things and you do notfactor in fallen world.
You don't factor.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, this free will that's right,
that's like you know, I'm just,you're supposed to do this.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
You know you're supposed to do this.
Yeah, I know I'm supposed to,but I don't want to.
And I realize I ain't got toJust like that.
I know that's country, but Iain't got to.
And so we begin to pray.
You do your part as far as okay.
Now your words have to be verylimited and you're looking for

(21:06):
your shot every time to stillthrow in a train.
Throw a lot, you know.
Try to throw in some wisdom.
Try to instruct with kindness.
Don't be so rough.
You want to be able.
It's like now.
We have to earn their ear sothat they can learn, versus
making them sit down to learn.
No, you have to earn that earfor them to hear you out, and

(21:29):
you do that by being atrustworthy parent, by making
sure that you treat them withrespect, because it's not just
for adults.
You have to learn to respectthem even while they're children
.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
So that when the time comes.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Guess what I respect you.
I never yelled at you.
I never treated you other thanwho I always saw you being, and
that is a future woman or man.
And I didn't talk to you anyless.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
One of the things that Shanique and I had problems
with, because we were trying tofigure out if we were bad
parents or not, because becausethe conclusion was for me is
that we had to be bad parents orelse our children and she
wasn't the only one, they allhad done something or sure, yeah
, that wouldn't have not beenany rebellion.

(22:19):
But then we had to, and thenand so, and then one night
shamika was just.
She was just bawling her eyesout and just crying about where
she went wrong and I said whatmakes you think you went wrong?
So I said let's go to becauseshe mentioned God, let's go to
God, who was probably, who isthe ultimate parent.
In the beginning, he had his,he had his children in the best

(22:43):
possible position that theycould ever be.
The text says that Eve wasdeceived Okay, but the problem
is Adam.
The text then says that Adamwasn't Okay, which means if he
wasn't deceived, he had thisloving father who was there, who
provided, who gave everythingthat he needed.

(23:05):
If he wasn't deceived, thatmeans he made a deliberate or
presumptuous sin.
He deliberately disobeyed God,I said.
I said, shemekia, you're notbetter, you're not a better
parent than God, right?
And yet his child still wentyou're not a you don't?
You're not a better providerfor God than God.
And yet his child still.
So it's not that we and thiswas all done before the

(23:31):
statement was you are goodparents, just that's not what I
want.
But we were still racking ourbrain and even though I said it,
there was still a part of likeokay, yeah, but I could have
done whatever.
You know what I'm saying.
And then I saw a Facebook post.
So now here I am saying if Ihad given my children everything
that they needed, they wouldn'trebel.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
And wanted.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
If I had given them everything, they wouldn't rebel.
Wow.
Then I saw a friend who had aFacebook post.
He said I messed up by givingmy child everything she wanted,
which is why she rebelled.
Wow, wait a minute time out.
Wait a minute, what do I want?
That means, so here I am sayingI didn't give everything,
that's why I rebelled.
He's saying I gave everything.
That's why I rebelled.
Okay, that means it really isnot anything on the parent.

(24:16):
Yep, that's it.
It's the free will of theindividual Individual who can
decide whether they want to ornot want to.
One more thing, and then I'mgoing to be quiet.
Another thing I had to do wasrealize how much I'm going to
say it this way, how much of aterrible son I am to God.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
Once I realized that I was still doing things, that
he is telling me don't say that,don't go there, he'll speak to
my wife and say don't say it,don't say it, and I'll say it
anyway.
After I say it, I realize, okay, that was God speaking.
I shouldn't have said that, andyet, and still, he's merciful
and gracious toward me.
That figuring that out made mesay, okay, let me be a little.

(24:57):
I'm not totally agreeing witheverything they do, but let me
be more patient Be gracious, bemerciful.
She need to start telling me yougot to listen, more, you got to
listen more.
And I'm still working on thatpart, because I talk a lot but
that listening with the intentto understand where they're
coming from.
And then we have a dialogueabout whether this is a good

(25:20):
idea, whether the outcome,whether the consequences,
whether the rewards for thedecision you make.
Are you good with thatconsequence?
You are Okay?
Hey, well, nothing I can doabout that.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
I mean amen, there are.
There's a book that Shamikathis is this book and we won't
go on this long but this bookthat Shamika introduced me to
called the Fall of Lucifer, andI think the tagline is like time
before time, which I love that.

(25:50):
I just love that tagline.
But anyway, it's basically this.
It is a fiction book.
It is based on the very littlebiblical text we have about this
, but this author has justreimagined what it was like
before Lucifer fell and becameSatan.
Right, Okay?

Speaker 2 (26:09):
So it's just really really good.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
But this free will thing.
They use this phrase, they callit the fire of free will
because there's this question toyou and you said it, pat pet,
like there's this idea of um,you know how could he do this?
And, and, and, and.
So the, the, the, the, theancients, the ones who had the

(26:35):
most wisdom, they're the onesthat use this phrase.
They try to explain like it'sthe fire of free will.
Our perfect father gave us freewill they use the same phrase
when he went down, deceived Eveand they said basically, it's
the fire of free will again.
Like it is.
We have to contend with thisfire that God has allowed us to

(26:59):
set when we went, because hewants you know.
So there's just this reality,but but again to your point, the
consequences, right.
So there's a, there's a.
There's a scene in the bookwhere God gives Lucifer an
opportunity to repent and hesays I can't do that.
He made his choice Right.

(27:22):
And then so we have the Satanthat we know today.
Again, I want to make adisclaimer this is not the Bible
, this is not, we don't actuallyknow, but it's a very
interesting read and I think itjust it illustrates some of the
stuff you're talking about, ofjust the and we're.
You know, we're talking aboutlike so this, this thing is

(27:49):
about like, so this thing is, isancient, this idea of you know,
um, am I a?

Speaker 3 (27:51):
bad parent, good parent.
How do I stop my children fromrebelling?
You don't.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
You don't because free will is god's idea, and and
so we, and he gives us accessto it because he loves us and he
wants us to choose to love him,so he gives us free will and
then he chooses to, um, uh, the.
The consequences of that are arewhat, what?

(28:15):
We have to feel Right and so,uh, so anyway, I just that that
fire of free will just is, so Ilove how that phrase like it's,
it's the fire of free will.
This is the consequence of whatfree will does, and we have to,
we have to, we have to contendwith it.
What, what, um, what do you?

(28:37):
Uh?
I want to kind of go back to alittle bit what you said earlier
, pat, about you had to learnthat you didn't really start
parenting until you're 18.
And you said that's notsomething you knew when you went
in.
What else did you not know whenyou went into parenting?
I mean like really, Becausehere's the thing you were

(28:57):
children, we were all children,but you know, sometimes we don't
make the connect right, Like wedon't remember, you know, we
just don't do that, I don't.
What did you think you knewthat you were wrong about that
you found out later on, Mm-hmm.
And on the opposite side, whatdid you believe you knew and you

(29:19):
ended up being right about?
Like, when it comes toparenting?

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Okay, I'm going to pass the baton to Shemeika,
because she normally says what?
Because if I say it I'mstealing her comment.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Got it, got it.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
You're welcome to.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
No, no, no, it's your baby, come on.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Okay, let me answer the question question, but I do
want to go back to that.
Uh, the fire of free willremind me to go back to that,
okay.
So, um, I thought, or wethought, that if you did abc you
would get def, okay, okay, okay.

(30:04):
If you input ABC, you get D, e,f, that's just the rhythm,
that's just the flow.
Yeah, but no, you get oneasterisk pound time three, uh,
sideway H.
You know, it's like what isthis?
Again, and and Again, and hey,it's so funny.

(30:26):
When I discovered the ABC, Iused to say then, when we get
W-T Y, there are no Y's.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
W-T-F, you get W-T-F.
I'm still in there.
From now on, from now on,that's what I'm saying.
I thought, if I put in A, b, c,I get D, e, f, but you get W T,
l.
Shoot Doggone it.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
Get the word out of it.
You cannot make a word.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
It's so frustrating.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
And again going back to how you started, how we
started the podcast, it's likein my era, thinking like now
they know what WTF means, butall I see is laughs.
So now you're communicating,but I'm missing the connect.
We are talking, but we'remissing the connect.
I'm like Lord I just saw R RAY,because that's how I was

(31:24):
brought up.
You put in ABC, youautomatically know DEF is coming
, but instead you get W.
Whatever y'all say WTL.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting.
You asked another question.
What was the other one?

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Let me, let me add why I believe that and this may
be theological contradictory orwhatever something- oh good, I
like that, let's go.
So the scripture says turn up achild on the way to go and when
they were not to part, Iautomatically assume that the
text that I was reading becausethis is the way I was taught the

(32:01):
text that I was reading, thatit was a definite promise.
It was a promise, yeah, but theProverbs, from what I'm
learning now, they're notdefinite promises, but they're
wise sayings.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Principles yes.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
Wise.
I'm looking for principles,thank you.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
But there are principles, that the likelihood
principles, yes, that thelikelihood, if you teach this
way, you're a bit you're morelikely to come out with this
equation with this answerabsolutely what the part I'm
missing.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
This is why.
So this is why it's necessary,I think, that we do study and
try to figure out and find outwhat were the original writings
writing?
What was the original meaningat that particular time?
What's the setting, all thatkind of stuff.
Because what I'm learning nowthat that that if you train up a
child in the way that they'rethey were, that they're going,
it's meaning how are they?

(32:54):
How do they lean?
What?
What direction are theyactually going?
yeah okay, what's their bent?
What's their thought like werethey bending or leaning toward?
Okay, okay, now let's put someparameters around that and teach
them in the way, becausethey're already to automatically
human nature will, I think,make them reject it.

(33:17):
So my son was one of my sons.
He was working on being anartist, a rapper, and I said
okay, son, I'm not saying youhave to be a gospel rapper, I'm

(33:39):
not saying you have to haveJesus, jesus and everything.
But Paul said to those thatwithout the law, I become
without the law, yet not withoutthe law of Christ.
So I want you to use that as aguideline or a fence, or what's
the thing when you're bowling Aguardrail, a guardrail.
Boundaries for how you do yourmusic, for how you do your music

(34:02):
, and there may be some thingsthat you may say that, hey, it's
not really in the Bible, butit's how you feel, it's your
feelings, about how you feelabout this world, about whatever
the case may be, aboutrelationships.
Go ahead and have at it, butmake sure you stay within the

(34:29):
guidelines of the law of Christ.
So that was what I'm nowlearning, or what I really got
from that particular verse.
That's what this means.
So I had to relearncontextually what the text
really means.
I had to relearn that this isnot a promise.
This is not etched in stone.
This is what is going to happen,but if you follow these
principles, you're likely tosucceed than you are to fail.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, go ahead, shemek.
I'm sorry.
I was going to say there wouldbe one of those disappointing
places you know, when you havebeen taught, trained them up in
a way that they should go, soyou teach them godly ways to go
back to the ABC, and then it'slike whoa, transition period,

(35:13):
because we're not talking aboutthe in-between, the meantime,
and the in-between and thein-between is meantime right and
it's like man.
I thought that if we taught themscriptures and we taught them
how to pray and we put them in aChristian, that if we taught
them scriptures and we taughtthem how to pray and we put them
in a Christian school and weput them in a.
Christian environment like thisnot supposed to be the kick out,
but then we, we hadn't been, we, we really don't.

(35:35):
I don't think that it'scommunicated enough about the,
the, the, the, the free will ofthe soul.
That is truly life.
You know, and you mentionedsomething earlier too about, you
know, rebellion.
Now, this is the thing Alovingly trained parent can spot

(35:56):
out when something is about togo rogue.
They're just sensitive.
You can just tell whensomething is about to go rogue,
they're just sensitive, you canjust tell.
And so no, you don't.
How can I say you know youcan't stop it, but this is where
interception or intercedingkicks in.

(36:17):
So I do my part to plead and tocry and to communicate with you
from a different perspective, adifferent angle, to say, hey,
this is headed towards death.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
This is headed towards destruction.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
This is not going to you not getting ready to get the
outcome you think that you areabout to get, because we know
over time, and we have learned,that rebellion always lies, you
know, with the short end of thestick.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
Our child we were speaking about earlier, when we
were going through that phasewith that particular child, god
will always give us glimpse ofus training her in the way that
she should know.
There will always be a glimpsethat she's not gone and we will

(37:10):
have to use that and to hold onto that and to trust him.
That okay that maybe there's amaybe.
We are the prodigal child'sfather and we know what we
taught.
And the prodigal child's fathersaid the same thing Dad, as of
today, you are dead to me.
Give me my inheritance.
That's pretty much what he said.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
And yet the father kept looking forward to him
coming back.
Yeah, because of what he knewhe put inside of him.
And so for us, the children arethe same way.
Yeah, right now it looks rogue,and I hope I'm here, and we had
to settle in.
Our listen broke and I hope I'mhere and we had to settle in.
Listen our ism.
We had to settle in our heart.

(37:49):
We might not see it.
There's a chance.
Even in the hall of fame or thehall of faith, toward the end,
nobody reached that part.
There were people that theyweren't going to see the change
that happened in the loved oneslife that they prayed for.
We had to settle in our heart.
We may not see the change.
We hope we do.
Dad, this is our petition.

(38:10):
I don't know, but it was greatto even see that, god.
Thank you, god, hold on.
I thought I was going to makeit.
To see the change and theturnaround in the child's heart,
to see the child come back andnow making this change and

(38:36):
things are elevated and workingout and things are getting
better.
They're not there yet, but weget to see this particular thing
.
We had to wait.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
We had to wait.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
We had to endure.
It was looking like we're notgoing to see it, we're not going
to get a chance, but for us,our testimony is it.
Did you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 (39:05):
So what do you say to parents who, in the prime kind
of of the rearing of children,of the teaching, they didn't
really have it together?
And they can look back and say Ididn't do my job as well as I
should have in training them up.

(39:26):
And now they see it, but theirchildren are gone.
What, what, what.
What kind of encouragement oradvice might you give to those
parents who say, man, I missedit and I see the results.
And now they're adults and I'mnot really sure how I can't get
that time back and I'm notreally sure what to do?

Speaker 3 (39:50):
Um, for me I would.
I would say start there, startwhere they are, especially if
they allow you in their lives.
Let's just say it's not astrange point where you can't
have a conversation.
At that point I would justbegin to give them an
opportunity, need to do morelistening to where they are and

(40:15):
why they are, or if they have afeeling about, rather than
trying to fix it or trying togive any any, because any, any
reason you give is an excusethat they really don't want to
hear.
It may be a good reason, but intheir eyes it's an excuse.
You know, I'm saying so, don'toften an apology, I apologize.

(40:36):
That's first foremost.
How do you feel.
And then, if you're trulysincere about it, continue to
pursue the relationship withthem and just begin to build.
And then they themselves my dadalways used to tell me best
advice is given.
Well, he used to tell me onlygive advice when it's asked for

(40:57):
or when it's life or death.
So in this case you're tryingto build the relationship to the
point that they begin to askfor the advice.
At that point they're reallywilling to hear.
But at this point, just build,go back, just, I think, just
begin to build a relationshipwith the intent to understand
and to hear, rather than toreally try to say what you think

(41:20):
you should have said a longtime ago.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
Did you have anything , shamik, I did.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
She's a way impatient one, so you want to All right,
she acted like it was a delay.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
Keith, are you there?
Yeah, yeah, bob, I just guessed.
Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
I'm sorry you want to admit, admitting or
acknowledging where you wentwrong is the beginning of the
healing.
And so, before you even ask thechildren for forgiveness, go
through your healing process ofgiving grace to yourself and

(42:01):
forgiving yourself for where youdropped the ball and missed the
mark.
If you don't if you don't, I'mnot saying don't fix it right
away, but forgiveness is aprocess.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
And so if you don't receive it first, then you'll be
constantly pouring from a halffull jar, a half full vessel,
and so then you'll end up, youknow, reverting back to the same
behavior or habits or maneuversthat you did prior to you just
start to survive right.

(42:39):
So I would say make sure thatyou acknowledge okay, where did
I go wrong?
Why was I moving like that?
Why was I absent?
Why was I all into work?
Oh, I had a fear ofda-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
So then, when you go back tothe child as an adult and you
say, hey, baby girl, I had amoment with myself you know I'm

(43:04):
still growing and I'm stilldiscovering, I'm figuring it out
and I just wanted you to knowthat I'm sorry I wasn't there
for you, right?
And I think that it is mosthelpful if you catch it and
admit it on the front end,versus them coming to you
pointing out you weren't thereand.
I missed you and I had to be atda-da-da-da-da house versus you

(43:27):
coming to your own.
Admit it.
So if it's a parent out thereand that you know that you had
this moment of reckoning whereyou have acknowledged that you
missed the mark, go ahead and gothrough that process of healing
so that you can go to yourchild and correct it and then
begin to see how can I be herefor you now, because, again,

(43:50):
parenting doesn't end.
I missed it on the front end,but I am not missing it now.
I will drop whatever I need todrop.
This is why you got to heal,because if I haven't stopped
dropping roads.
That's good, that's really goodfor you, no matter what, if I
have to show up for you, maybethrough the grandchildren, or

(44:11):
show up for you, maybe helpingyou with your laundry, so you
can finish a class or a projector whatever you do, what you can
, why?
But this time you're not doingit from a place of deficit,
you're doing it from a place offullness.
I want to help you with it.
I'm already fully definedBecause I'm under his grace.

(44:32):
He gave me space to receive it,so I'm good.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
And I think you make a great point.
You said that you said earlier.

(45:03):
Forgiveness takes a the placewhere it's like I really want
this, but you're not healed andyour child rejects you.
There's resentment.
That can come and be built upas a result.
But if you go through theprocess of healing, then you
have an understanding of howlong that's going to take,
because it might take you longto forgive yourself.
So you know, I know that thisthat I'm going to when I'm ready

(45:23):
to approach them.
I understand the process thatthey're about to go through with
me through with me.
And so that and that can it.
It puts a more realistic filmover what's what's really about
to happen.
Because that is a process it'sgoing to take a minute.
They have to be, they have toget to the place, to where

(45:51):
they're willing to be open toreceive what they probably have
stopped wanting, Like, um, youknow?

Speaker 3 (45:54):
so I just love that.
Yeah, no, please go ahead.
I want to look just a littlepushback.
Yeah, Because the way I hear it, it sounds like it sounds as if
I can't pursue the child untilI'm ready.
But what if the child is ready?
Then do you say, well, no, Ican't, we can't start this right
now, can't start this right now, and so it may be, and that's

(46:15):
not what y'all saying.
Then that's great, because itmay be an issue where we have to
travel this road together andas we begin to converse, we'll
find out.
You know that we're both brokenand we both need to be put back
together again.
What's your saying?
You say Sonequa about thepieces.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Making peace with the pieces.
Making peace with the pieces.
Yeah, and to your point,patrick, and I do want to share.
Thank you for sharing that.
But I do want to say thatremember that forgiveness and
healing is unique.
It's just like we're goingthrough a whole life experience.
So, ideally, if you come tothis acknowledgement yourself, I

(47:01):
am admonishing you to go aheadand go through that healing so
that you can get a jumpstart onit.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
That's ideally right.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
However, if you all come to a conclusion because
you're looking at a movie andy'all crying together and it's
like, oh, we're from the hill,it's not like, no, you went over
there while I'm not saying that.
Okay it's like again, uniqueit's.
It's a tapestry, life is atapestry and that you have to be
willing to see what the end isgoing to look like.

(47:32):
At the end, we do want to havea whole.
We want to have whole pieces,we want to leave each other
better than we found each other.
We want to be glad that we wereassigned to each other as a
parent and as a child, and so,with that being said, we
sometimes have to remember or Iknow I have had to remind them

(47:52):
hey, this parenting that we'redoing.
I've never done it before.
I've never done this before.
So, yeah, we are.
You know, 30 years in, threedecades in, but guess what, I
still have never been a40-year-old mother.
So now we are learning.
Then we turn back to bless andencourage somebody else that,

(48:13):
hey, you may want to keep aheads up on that and I do want
to share.
You may want to keep a heads upon it and I do want to share.
I do want to share somethingthis is not in a textbook.
I'm just telling you from whatI've learned is my own little
observation.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
So we have five children and each one of those
children had their owntemperaments.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
They went through that, you know, infancy stage,
I'll say, from even carryingcarrying to the infancy stage to
the toddler stage.
I personally believe that ifit's a parent out there and you
at the beginning stage is payvery close attention to the

(48:57):
temperament of your child.
You can pretty much tell fromthe, the uh, the, the toddler
and the infancy stage, like ifthey were criers, if they
required a whole lot ofaffection, if they were one of
the ones that always wanted abottle.
Like they, they cry when youleave out the room.
Just look different things likethat.

(49:18):
Are they?
um, do they have a proclivity toshare or are they really more
takers you have to pay attentionto how they move, because now,
at this stage in their life,there are no words yeah all
action got.
Right, pay attention to that,because guess what, when that
next, when a terrible two,terrible, three phase wind off,

(49:41):
guess what it's going to showback up in the adolescence stage
.
Right, I think it's justdifferent now, interesting.
Now you got words and you gotfriends and you got peer
pressure.
But now, if you remember howthey moved as children, right,
you'll kind of see that samething as a teenager and it's

(50:02):
like no, you don't know how tocircumvent it, right?
Yeah, because I paid attentionto you, were, uh, you were like
we had one child and she wouldjust oh, she would just this was
her way of expressing anger, orshe would just kind of move.
Then we had one that she justsoothed herself.
She would just suck her thumbwhen she was mad.

(50:24):
She was just like, okay, I'mjust going to pay attention and
calm down.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
And what about the son?
What about the son who couldn'tlike?
He was just.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Oh yeah, he was anxious, like he was just
constantly anticipating the nextmove and we would have to say,
hey, slow down, I'm here to tellyou those children.
They still have those sametemperaments and so now it's
like, okay, you to tell thechild that wants to do what they

(50:54):
want to do no, dangerous themoment you tell them no they're
going to show you oh yes, I can.
So now, what do you do now?
Now what I have learned?
Because, again, on the frontend, I didn't know.
But then there was that phasethat we had to learn.
Now it's like like no, insteadof telling them no, how about

(51:18):
you say, hey, have you stoppedand considered maybe this right
here?
Or what outcome are you lookingfor?
Will that really give you that.
Now we're making them think now,that was the other thing I'm
sorry to keep, okay, but know,if I could, if I could emphasize

(51:38):
, to like make sure, as a parent, that you teach your children
how to think through all the wayto the end.
If you teach them how to think,then guess what?
Whatever it is that they feellike they have to experience,
and they exhausted all measures.
They went down every corridor,every lane in their mind before

(52:00):
they take the journey.
If they choose it, it's like ohokay, so you really knew what
you were choosing what's your?
reason why for choosing that?
Okay, what is the plan?
Bc, how?
What is your escape like?
Talk to them, dialogue, letthem express and then say and
you, okay with those choices.
If that's what happened, okaynow, how did I fit in this?

(52:20):
Am I in your story like act?
yeah, so then, by the same token, I'll even say, even when it
comes to our heavenly father.
He already had redemption setto the side, he already had the
sacrifice and the way made andas parents, as excellent parents
, you do your best to try tomake it where it'll always be

(52:42):
favorable for your children.
You never want to make it wherethey constantly have to have
hardships to learn.
That's another thing we had tounlearn.
That's hard work.
You don't have to go throughhardships to figure it out.
You don't have to go throughexperiences every time.
Sometimes, if you're a greatstoryteller, if you're a great
communicator, you can get itover to the children that, hey,

(53:04):
I love you, I trust you.
I'm telling you this because Idon't want you to experience
that pain.
Life has already got a lot ofstuff that you you got to
contend with.
Don't pick that up Like if.
I say don't touch that hot eye.
Any loving parent not going tolet their children just touch
that hot eye.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Don't do it.
I have a question.
Would you say that you have twoboys?
Y'all have two boys, two youngmen.
Would you say, going back tothe temperament as a man, do you
have the same temperament asboth of of your boys and do they
have the same temperament aseach other?

Speaker 3 (53:42):
uh, they each have something from me they do okay
fair, got it, that's fair.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
So the thing that is unfamiliar about their
temperaments to you and and letme say it like this, let me give
an example you know you mighthave a father who this is the
case of my father and he saidthis publicly, so I don't think
it's okay that I say it.
Both of his stepfather and hisnatural father were both great

(54:13):
with their hands.
They were handy.
They were, they were excellent.
They were craftsmen.
They loved being outside doingall that.
He loved to read the dictionary.
That was his way ofentertainment.
That's him.
He's a reader.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
He's a learner.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
He can't do nothing with his hands.
He don't like changing lightbulbs.
He'll do it, but he don't likeit right, so so the like so,
like that kind of difference youknow, raising a son, I'd say
specific that is different fromyou, is that something that
you've experienced on any level?
Um, and if so, how do you helpfathers?

(54:50):
How can you help fathers to,you know, accept certain
differences and then, like, nottry to mold them into who they
are, but really love them forwho, who they are, who their
child, who their son is?
I'm, specifically, father andson and, um, I think it's a very
interesting relationship andand it's like, especially when

(55:12):
it's like yo, yo, where'd youget that from?

Speaker 3 (55:15):
That ain't me Like I don't know.
I don't know where you got thatfrom.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
And sometimes it can be difficult to handle, to
understand, to deal with orwhatever.
If that's the case, I don'tknow, maybe it isn't.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
So yes and no, I think one of the things you
would want to do, so I have, somy clients, because I want to
know where I tell you where Igot it from.
I have clients now.
Most of my clients are adoptedparents and one of the
statements that they say isconnect before you, correct, and
so, while as a Gen X, that'snot how my parents were raised.

(55:52):
It was not.
You don't connect nothing.
I'm going to connect this beltto your butt if you don't get up
that was how it was.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
That's right, for real.
That's for real.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
I would say, before you do correct, I would
encourage that to really connectwith his son so you won't have
to take them outside and dustthem off right quick, because
every son gets to a point wherehe feels like he can take his
dad.
But if there's a connectionthat's different from yours, not

(56:41):
in a bad way, but just theyjust do things different.
Um, my son is a little bit more, I'm saying, nonchalant, but
nonchalantant, he doesn't, hedoesn't worry as much.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
He's more like he chill yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Don't work his stuff out, take it easy.
He's seriously chill.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying,what you doing.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
So that I'm like we got, we got and they're like the
other thing is so my dad was inthe house, but I'm just going
to sound bad.
So my dad was in the house butwe didn't have a relationship.
So, but he's in therelationship.
I mean he's in the house butwe're not talking to have a
conversation.
So I'm saying I'm going to havethis relationship with my son,

(57:31):
we're going to talk all the timethe time.
But I miscommunicated becausefor me, talking all the time
meant, when I say something,that's part of what you have to
do it, not knowing that they'relearning something different or
they're still getting what I'mlearning.
They're just not learning itthe way I learned it.

(57:52):
Check this out.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
This was just made because this used to make me mad
.
Nor are they learning it theway I learned it.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
Check this out.
This was just made because thisused to make me mad, nor nor
are they learning it from me.
I used to be mad because I'mtaking all this time that my dad
, it didn't take with me to tellyou these things and you don't
tell me, you don't get it.
But sister, so-and-so, orbrother, little bud, tell you

(58:17):
the exact same thing and y'all.
Now it clicks and I used to bemad.
I'm like, wait a minute, I'minvesting all this time, I'm
trying to do all this, and whyyou not?
Then I got to a point like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa Took me
aback.
Hey, at least they're gettingit.
Yeah, at least they're gettingit.
It doesn't matter how they'regetting it in turn, because

(58:38):
they're getting it the right way, right, at least.
At least they're they'regetting it.
So my son and I'm not surewhere he got it I think he got
it from.
I think they both got it fromtheir granddad.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Because my dad is mellow and humble.
He doesn't yell a lot.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
He's not extra.

Speaker 3 (58:59):
He's not extra like me.
Right, right, right.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Unless you provoke him, yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
And so my sons, and sometimes they get mad at me,
especially when I'm driving.
I realize they say I have roadrage a little bit.
And my oldest son would be likeDad, just let him over.
I'm like no, but they shouldn'twait to the end.
They're going to wait till thelast minute to try to get over.
And they knew, they saw thearrow sign.
And that's me.
My son was like dad, just don'ttake all that Don't do that, and

(59:24):
so it affected me a little bit.
Boy, I'm like, okay, maybe I'mnot being a good example for my
son, so that kind of.
I kind of felt that way alittle bit.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Right.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
And then I had to realize okay, wait a minute, you
know what he's actually right.
At this point I can learn fromhim rather than him learning
from me.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
So I hope that's what you were asking.
No, that's good, that's good.
What was your thought?

Speaker 2 (59:49):
I think a lot of times too.
We can sometimes take ourexperience with our parents and
project it to our children.
Absolutely, the truth of thematter is their dad was always
present and involved, but fromPatrick's perspective, he
experienced not I mean hisparent being present, but not as

(01:00:13):
hands on.
So now for the children they'relike look, I don't have that
issue with you, like just chillout.
I got the lesson.
Let me show you that I got it.
You know, so we have to be yeah, that's another one.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
I'm learning that I feel like I have to be there
because I'm like I want them toget it.
I there, because I'm like Iwant them to get it, I want you
to get it, I want you to get it.
And my son Patrick was just oneof the things that he said that
made me stop.
He said, dad, he was on thephone talking to somebody.
It was an issue that he washaving and I'm like and say and

(01:00:52):
say and say and say and say andsay dad, dad, dad, so I can grow
, let me.
It's not, it's not a badsituation where he's about to
fall off the cliff and I need tohurry up and catch him.
No, it's him handling his ownbusiness, his own way, the way
he know, is going to get thesame results, whether the me say

(01:01:12):
, and you tell them, it's like,like hey, that that he said he
was, he was, he was he, hemanned up a little bit.
He said, dad, I got this.
I said you're right, yeah, myfault.
Let me back up some.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
That's so, shemeika cause.
I would love to get a similarperspective if you have them
with your girls.
Like different temperaments, Ilove that you brought that up,
like understanding what yourchild, the temperament of your
child, is.
You know, I know me and my mom.
My mom is fiery, she's fieryand she go from zero to a

(01:01:46):
hundred.
I don't I tick my way up there.
I'm not a zero to a hundred,I'm more of a zero to 10.
I probably come back down to 0.
Like I don't do all that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Listen, I'm going to interrupt you.
Shamika got 0 or 100.
She either 0 or 100.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
No, that's real.
So it's like but my sister isthe same as my mama 0 to 100.
Like she can go from whoop.
It's like how did we just getthere?
and I thought and often I findmyself like you know, just hey,
like, like you say, your boy,just y'all, it ain't that.

(01:02:24):
Like, just chill, like it'sokay, um.
And so my mom, sometimes I feellike with what?
Like I, like I'm cool, we don'thave, you don't't have, you
don't have to go, you don't haveto go here with me Now with her
you might have to, but not withme.
I ain't like that.
So hold on right.
So, like that's, that's kind ofhow my so like, how do you, how

(01:02:45):
do you manage parenting girlswith different temperaments than
you?

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Prayerfully.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
And it's interesting because that is true, if you,
it's just I can't say.
I was always like this, but Iam becoming more aware that I'm
seeing them as young ladies,like if I was friends with
somebody else.
That's just how they click's,just how they tick, and so, hey,

(01:03:19):
I'm just going to kind of do mybest to try to help you see, or
to offer this wisdom withkindness, like to instruct with
with kindness, versus sayinggirl, saying girl, pull your,
pull your leg down, you know itmay not be something I prefer,
but to say you know well what'sthe story behind this.

(01:03:40):
You know, to actually ask thequestion Really concerned,
versus again trying to projectit boils down to a matter of
respecting their space, becausenow they're at a place where
they are free to express.
And they're at a place wherethey are free to express and now
is that a place where, if it'shealthy, it's healthy expression

(01:04:03):
, it's okay.
Now, if it's toxic, like I havehad to tell them, uh, just let
y'all know I have had to tellthem I'm gonna be your mama.
Yeah, all you ready to do istell me how to be something.
You're not.
So I have a different care foryou.
So if I go to a hundred, justhold on, be patient with me.
Just know that it's from a placeof love.

(01:04:24):
I do have to remind them ofthat.
Know that it's from a place oflove.
I'm not trying to demean orbelittle or think that you don't
know what you're doing withyour life.
I already know that, but itjust made me panic.
So there's a constant againapologizing and making sure that
you give those neededdisclaimers, because sometimes

(01:04:45):
we don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
That's real.
No, that's really good, and Ithink that is something that
parents at any stage have tounlearn is that you know every
know everything.
It's funny I joke with tyson.
You know he'll be like youdon't know everything.
I said I know more than you andso you know but, but you know.

(01:05:08):
But he is a way and I affirm, no, I do not know everything like
and, and so I don't want him toever think that adults, just
because somebody is older thanyou, does not mean that they
know everything.
They might know more, but theydon't know everything.
And so it gives them room tohave a voice to say.
There are some things that yousaid earlier that maybe you can

(01:05:31):
learn from me too, which iscrazy to think you know to learn
from a eight, nine, 10, youknow, 15, 20, 22 year old, but
that is real and we have tohumble ourselves to do that,
like there's so much that theycan teach us.
Um, I, I want to.
This is weird.
I feel the need to go here.
I don't even know how I'm gonnaset it up because it is not on

(01:05:52):
the list, but and then, and thenI'm going to kind of end it
with just some, some, some.
I will end it with a differentquestion, but so I think I heard
a statistic of 50, 51% ofpeople.

(01:06:14):
No, no, 51% of the church atthis point, no, I think of
Christians.
Anyway, bottom line there aremore single adults than there
ever have been today.
Right, I think the number islike 46%, and up from like 23%
in 1970.
And up from like 23% in 1970.

(01:06:35):
So it is doubled in 40 years, 50years, like we've doubled the
amount of percentage of singlepeople.
A lot of those single peopleare in that age range of 30 to
20, 20, 30, 35, all of that,your kids at range right?
See if I can make this makesense.

(01:06:57):
Y'all bear with me.
What impact does a marriagehave on adult children?
Um, and how do you parentthrough your children being in
relationships?

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
It is so good, patrick, you have anything?

Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
I'll let you go first .

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
I think marriage plays a very significant role in
shaping our children, thoseyoung adults, and I say that
because let me get thisdisclaimer too, the marriage
being toxic, because we need totalk about that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
Come on.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
Or being healthy Toxic, like yeah, no, I'm good,
I'm not signing up for that.
I don't have to.
Why?
Because we do live in a singlebase society, so I don't have to
put up with it.
I can do it by myself.
But then, by the same token, ifit's healthy, you see the power

(01:08:09):
of partnership.
You see how healthy like youcan get through life and get so
much more accomplished when youhave a healthy spouse in the
house.
What was your last?
What was your next?
Oh, and navigating through therelationships, yeah, I believe
that.
I believe that if they see ithealthy right, then they are

(01:08:33):
longing for that, they areanticipating, and sometimes I
think that if you see a healthyrelationship, they assume that
it's going to be automatic forthem we have had to remind our
children hey, hey, hey, we hadto put in work and hours, days,
we had to go through experiences.

(01:08:55):
Yeah, look, we have aTempur-Pedic mattress now.
But we started out on theeggshell crate on the floor
because we didn't know thosethings.
So it's like you have to gothrough those dark your.
So we have to remind them thatin your relationship, remember

(01:09:15):
they're all unique.
So now, if you don't seeyourself going through with this
person, let's say if they neverchange, they have somebody
right now.
Let's say they never improve.
Are you okay with this personright here?
You cannot say that.
You would say I do to themright here and nothing ever
changing.
You gotta cut your losses.

(01:09:36):
Don't say I do to them righthere and nothing ever changing.
You gotta cut your losses.

Speaker 3 (01:09:37):
Don't say it.
That's right.
One thing, shemekia what Ialways ask them is the person in
your life now.
Are they more of a liability oran asset to you, or how have
they?
How have you been better as aperson?
How have you been better as aperson with them in your life?
And we just sit there and wekind of listen to them going

(01:10:01):
forward.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
And those questions came as a result of me messing
up on the first two, tellingthem no, that's not the one,
that's not the one, that's notthe one.
Wait a minute, that's good now.
What are your thought-provokingquestions?
Hey, the same place.
They found you or you foundthem.
Are they still at their place?
For instance, you found him.

(01:10:26):
He stopped you at the bus stopBecause he riding the bus too.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
There it is.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Y'all still riding the bus.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
You know years later, like no, you shouldn't be in
the same too.
There it is, y'all still ridingthe bus.
Yeah, you know years later,like no, you shouldn't be in the
same place.
My point is that it should besome improvement.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
They should be better .

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
You should be better as a result, and when their face
pop up on their phone are yousmiling?
Or are you cussing?
Oh see, I can't answer thosequestions.
Those are the things you, areyou smiling or are you cussing?
See, I can't answer thosequestions.
Those are the things you haveto keep monitoring and checking
your heart, because, at the endof the day, it's things going on

(01:11:04):
that you have never told momand daddy.
And then the other thing that Ihave told them is that I'm
watching from afar.
I see how you light up or youdon't I can see the glow, I can
see the sky, I can see it.
So now this is the other thingLearning that everything that I
see, I don't have to say, Idon't have to say everything

(01:11:28):
that I see, that's good, that'sso good.
Yeah, I can look and be likethat ain't going to be long.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
Girl, you know that ain't going to be long.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
Why would you say that?
What was your reason?
You just begin to again askthose self-provoking questions
or you go back to that.
Like I was saying earlier, youjournal and you pray and say you
know what, lord, I already seethis is not held and I don't
want them to go through that.
Then the Lord may tell you thisis the way for them to know

(01:11:58):
about who they are, because thisis who he is.
We are discovering who God is,but he also want us to discover
who he created us to be, and Ithink that this is a sidebar,
but I do think that that is oneof the things that we have to
unlearn as believers.
But I do think that that is oneof the things that we have to
unlearn as believers that, yes,god do want us to come to know
him, but he also want us to cometo know the gift of who he

(01:12:21):
created us to be, and that isnot a slight to him in any shape
, form or fashion, I agree.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
So that's a double standard, because it's we at
least the men in my life.
It's easier for us to watch oursons go through heartaches Like
, hey, man, my son got his heartbroken For real.
You ain't growing up now.
My daughter oh man, we got aproblem, bro, especially again,

(01:12:52):
it's me projecting because ofwho?
I bro, yeah, especially againit's me projecting because of
who I used to be.
Especially I don't want her tomeet who I used to be, because I
know how I was before I gotmyself right, and if I see a guy
that I know he's resembling howI used to be I got a problem.

(01:13:13):
But as a young adult I can't doit.
So I need the barbershop talkso I can say man, this little
white man, he right out there,and I can say what I can say.
So they can say hey, little Pat, leave that alone, because I
did this.
And so we get to kind of ironit out.

(01:13:33):
I got to get it out, though,because if I don't get it out,
and sometimes my wife just don'tunderstand because she's like
what?

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
boo, you just got it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
No, baby, I'm not praying about this right now.
I don't feel like praying rightnow Like this is some we need
to get.
I need to put him in positionwhere he can act up so we can
move some furniture up, so wecan move some furniture, you
know what?

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
I'm saying so again, but it's a double standard,
because that's my baby girl.

Speaker 3 (01:13:59):
And, man, I don't know what youown.
You look like you own what Iused to be on and I know who I
am and I don't want nobody to domy daughter like that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
My son, he'll figure it out.
You know what I'm not saying.
Everybody's like that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
I'm just saying maybe it's the circle that I've been
around.
Most folk are like that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
That's how we think.
And guess what Mothers are likethat with their sons?
We can spot them out.
And maybe it's because of wherewe're from, you know the
different angles.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
No, I think that's true.
It's funny, Like, like I said,I don't this wasn't planned to
talk about this, but there'sjust like it's really
interesting.
I think a lot of younger peopleI mean loneliness and all these
statistics, mental health,they're so off the charts and
and and so relationships,understanding how to pursue

(01:14:53):
healthy relationships, how tosustain them.
It's just it's missing,Something's missing and I don't
you know.
Go ahead, Come on, Come on,Come on, Come on, Come on.

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):
So in the beginning he said he said he said I don't
want you to eat from the tree ofthe knowledge of good and evil.
Knowledge of good and evil Ithink it's in the New Testament
said later on in times will comethat men will call good evil
and evil good.
All right.
So now we have a society nowthat they don't view marriage as

(01:15:26):
something sacred anymore.
I saw one podcast a guy calledmarriage is a business deal or a
business partnership orsomething like that, and they've
taken away or moved away fromCovenant.
One day our car broke down andwe were riding the bus and the
children on the bus acting crazyand the old lady we could tell

(01:15:48):
she was kind of squirmingbecause they were doing a lot of
cursing.
So I said Shemika, let's goback and let's just sit back
there and talk to them, let'sjust get in their world.
And so we just started askingquestions, asking questions.
She said so what about marriage?
I said what about marriage?
She said marriage that's forold people.
So now that's a thought process.
It's for old people.
Other thing we look at all ofthe things and I did the good

(01:16:11):
and evil, because men changemorality depending on what they
view it should be, when Godalready has a moral standard of
how things should be.
But because we have thisknowledge of good and evil, we
don't know, we're calling thingsthe wrong thing and we think
we're progressing, but we'rereally digressing as a society.
So now you have in movies itused to be a point what did you

(01:16:36):
get married?
Or they would get married,didn't have children.
Now living together is thething to get to.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
Yeah, Guess what he gave me a key right.

Speaker 3 (01:16:51):
You know what I'm saying Now.
He gave me a ring.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
He gave me a key or he gave me a drawer.
Right, he gave me a drawer.

Speaker 3 (01:16:58):
It's like so that's perpetuated now so marriage is
not Wait.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
I know drawers.

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
So marriage is not most important, nor is it seen
as important, yeah, and soyou're going to have the fallout
from that.
It's going to be more singleparents, more single mom.
Last thing she made them throwto you.
Isaiah warned us about thisthat at some point women will go
to men and tell them I don'twant your marriage, I just want,
I just want a child.

(01:17:27):
But I just want, yeah, I justwant a child.
Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
Go ahead, if you correct me want a child, but I
don't want go ahead.
Go ahead.
If you correct me, I was gonnasay that it mentions about them
not needing their riches ortheir wealth.
They just wanted their name sothat they could be protected,
but not, you know.
Again, it's not a relationshipgoing to the contraction you
know, yeah, contract, yeah, yeah, um, you mentioned about

(01:17:54):
loneliness, you know, beingsingle.
I think that I'm not.
I think that's, I think that'sa type of point to what Patrick
was saying.
Just a decline, you know, andpeople, just maybe how it's
perceived and projected it's notlike this, I don't know.
I think that that has a lot todo with the shift in the mindset

(01:18:16):
of where we are.
By the same token, I do thinkthat singleness has gained this
stigma of kind of like a scarletletter, like if you're single
and you're not married, thenwhat's wrong with you?
Like wait?

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
a minute.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Yeah, hold on.
You're not married, then what'swrong with you?
Like, wait a minute, yeah, yeah, hold on right, because, at the
end of the day, if you're notmarried, you still should have
family, you still should havesome points of connection where
you can still thrive as anindividual, as you hopefully are
pursuing to be in a marriage.
Because you what to me, whathappened is, is that you're

(01:18:55):
rushing to a relationship, apermanent relationship, because
you don't want to be single.
Yeah, wait a minute.
Who says singleness was bad?
If you are handling thatassignment because, again, it's
an assignment you're handlingthat assignment with grace and
truth.
You know it's like.
The reality is this is where Iam.
How am I supposed to conductmyself?

(01:19:17):
How am I supposed to move?
How can I give you glory inthis space?
Yes, so, yeah, so.
And then this is the otherthing.
This all came to me today.
I was reflecting.
This is a sidebar, but anyway,sometimes I know that the
scriptures say it's not good forman to be alone.
However, I do believe let me goback I believe that we kind of

(01:19:46):
rushed through the fact thatAdam still had a season of
aloneness before his companioncame on the scene.
Right, right, and so, with thatbeing said, I think that
connecting it even to parentingthat it's going to be times and
seasons where you have to bealone in this wilderness place.

(01:20:10):
You have to be alone in thisspace of uncertainty or not
knowing so that you can tap intowhat it is, who you are to be
and what you are to do in thismoment, so like when I come out
of this space because we knowthat it's not going to last
always, yeah, it's like OK, howdo I show up?

(01:20:32):
You know so, even though I thinkyou were saying, even with the
relationships, like as a parent,not rushing your children, it's
like you need to get married,get out of my house Like whoa,
wait a minute.
Yes, the word that I picked upI don't even know if this is a
real word, but I call itnestling, so they're not always

(01:20:53):
empty nestling.
I like that.
But then you know they're notlittle bitty eaglets either.
You know they're not just so.
It's kind of like they'restretching and they're trying to
gain their space.
It's like give them space forgrace, let them figure out,
don't rush them to the nextphase and don't wish them in old
days.
The truth of the matter isthey're not little anymore and

(01:21:16):
they are headed to a destination.
But meanwhile, as parents, weneed to be thanking God that
he's allowing us to have a frontrow seat in this dynamic right,
because it could be that you'renot, you couldn't be involved
at all.
They could have just snatchedaway.

Speaker 3 (01:21:37):
I think one of the things one of the things tamika,
I was hoping she would connectin terms of why they're more
singleness out or single parents, whatever case may be.
Um, I think part of it isbecause we're rushing, but the
thing is because they're not.
Again, the marriage is what wewant to be married.
Then these things happen, butthey're not taking their time

(01:22:00):
developing with the Lord.
So if we bring back developingthat, developing in my
singleness, the relationshipwith God, it will give us more
patience to wait for the rightperson, absolutely.
As opposed to rushing inAbsolutely.
I really believe that we're ina generation that know not God.

(01:22:26):
So because they don't know God,they're coming with their own
judgment or what they think isright.
So we have a lot of what we'reseeing because that personal
relationship with Christ ismissing.
To make me be okay in mysingleness until I find the
right one, as opposed to rushinginto something, he or she is

(01:22:48):
not the right one.
Now I'm a single parent becauseI didn't wait, because I didn't
find my solace in Christ andChrist alone.

Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
Which is really, I find really difficult for
younger people these days isbeing alone and being patient
and waiting and just being still.
It's hard, um, it's hard forthis generation to do that
because that's not the way ourlife is set up, it's not the,
it's not the world that they'vegrown up in.

(01:23:17):
There's, you know, they, theyare moving, moving, moving,
moving, moving, moving, and it'slike they, it's hard to know
how to be.
So it's hard for my generationto know that too, right, um?
But I think for this, thisgeneration, I mean, it's tough,
like so.
So I, I, um, I think that'sgood, I think that's good, I.
This next question is for me,um, I'm doing it publicly

(01:23:37):
because I need help.
So, you know, we have a, wehave a son, and I recognize that
sons need something differentthan than than the daughters do
like boys and some differentthan, and I also recognize that
men and women parent differently.
I recognize that there havebeen moments that I've gotten in
the way of.
Ty parenting Tyson as a youngman.

(01:23:58):
Help me and others,particularly Pat.
What do wives need to do ormake sure they stop doing in
order to get in?
That may get in the way offather's parenting sons.

Speaker 3 (01:24:16):
Yeah, shut up.

Speaker 1 (01:24:18):
I'm just about to say Noted Got it All right, Ben Got
it noted, got it all right, bet, got it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:34):
I was trying to see where my wife no, but listen.
Even now, as a young adult,sometimes I have to tell my wife
I say, hey, hey, let me handlethese men like I just hope.
Just just be patient.
These are, these are my sons.
I want the best for them.
You've seen me throughout theyears handle them with love.
So it's not that I don't lovethem, you know, I love them.

(01:24:56):
I need you to just stay overthere because, whatever's in me,
they need to hear the voice.
Hear the voice.
And they don't.
They don't need to hear you.
Always rescue them, because nowin their mind, whether they
know it or not, they see okay,there's, here's the wedge I can

(01:25:17):
draw or I can create betweenthis, just how children are.
Okay, let me, let me, let meask in front of my mom the whole
time.
So my dad said something, mymama said something, my dad said
something, my mama saidsomething.
When my dad said something, mymama said something.
So really do, if it's anythingI'm not saying don't say
anything, but that's what pillartalk is for.

(01:25:38):
Yeah, hey, you know youprobably should have did that.
Da, da, da, da, da da.
You probably should go.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
Where are you coming from?
I would say make sure that youseek for understanding even from
your husband, because we cannever know that testosterone.

Speaker 1 (01:25:53):
Yep Amen.

Speaker 3 (01:26:11):
And this is something about being especially being an
African-American man and whatwe go through and us trying to
to properly teach our sons howto navigate this world and the
things that we go through.
So again and I was, I wasjoking, I said it that way, but
no disrespect, sometimes youhave to really just stay silent
and in that, that moment, youcan't say anything to us.
In that moment you really gotto be talking to god, yeah, and

(01:26:35):
god will talk to.
He will tell us hey, listen,and then I have to go back and
apologize.
Some of my fault I shouldn'tsay it that way.
Some of my fault I should havewent that way.
Some, please forgive me, I'mworking on it.
Whatever do is that's what thatis you feel what?
what I'm saying?
Sure, so yeah, and if you know,you've actually married a
really good man.

(01:26:56):
I guarantee you he'll figure itout.
So here's what happened.
If I'm dealing with my son,this is so good.
If I'm dealing with my son andyou get in the way, now I have
to say something to you, becauseI can't let him see what this
little thing is.
You can't even avoid me, wait aminute.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
Wait a minute, you can't even avoid me.

Speaker 3 (01:27:19):
Hold on baby, Hold on baby, Let me just deal with him
.

Speaker 1 (01:27:22):
But I'm just saying baby.

Speaker 3 (01:27:26):
So now I got to apologize to you and him.
Right, right, right, yeah, yeah, so yeah even if there's no
more, if you could find a way tosignal to him, signal to the
husband, something like that,but to actually say anything, I
think you should probably justwait.
Uh-huh, pull a.

(01:27:47):
Talk a little bit more ease,and then you can have a
conversation.
And yeah, we talk a little bitmore ease and then you can have
a conversation.
And yeah, we'll listen.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
Talk to me, Shemeika, please Talk to me.

Speaker 2 (01:27:56):
So Patrick is telling the truth.
That is correct.
I would like to add too thatyou have to stay list and,
because we are fixers when itcomes to our children, you have
to sit on your hands becausesometimes, like even even though
you can be quiet, but yourattitude and heart posture, oh

(01:28:18):
man, you like man.
I can't wait till we get in thebed.
I'm going to let it rip, seeall of that.

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
So it's like really working towards having a quiet
settle, like know in your heart,and I would encourage any
mother out there like know thatit's going to work itself out,
like it's designed, if let mesay this if it's healthy
parenting correct I think this,this is definitely a
conversation that we we have had, you know, and he's been very,

(01:28:49):
very gracious and patient withme, as I, you know, you know, on
top of being a a, a a woman,I'm also a bonus mom, so he's
not naturally my son.
So there's also that layer andso, but I've had to, I've, I
absolutely have had to learn howto like hey, hey, like there is
.
There is a difference.

(01:29:10):
You can't, he ain't go do itthe way you would do it Correct,
and you can't get in the way ofhow he is doing it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:19):
So let me say so, let me add this extra thing to you.
Ok, just for here.
Ok, so typically, when peopleask me how many children do you
have?
So when I, when I ask aboutShamika and I meeting, I say
when I first met Shameka, shewas eight months pregnant with
our first child.
And they're like what, whatdoes that mean?
Like huh, what?

(01:29:40):
And I let them figureeverything else out.
Yeah, but from that point so Iwouldn't even say bonus, it's
not a bonus.
This is my son, yeah for sure.
Well, when y'all got marriedtwo years ago, how old is he?
Ten, huh, that's my son.
Well, how does that work?
That's my son.

(01:30:00):
Like, there's no bonus, there'sno step.

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:30:06):
And I do as best I could to remove that.
Because, remember now, evenwith the blending family, how do
I remove all of the, how toremove any stigma in terms or
any barriers between therelationship between me and my
child?
Well, one of the things I don't.
I don't say bonus, I don't saystep.

Speaker 2 (01:30:28):
That's my son.

Speaker 3 (01:30:29):
However, they want to figure it out, that's up to
them.
I had one guy, so I know, so Iknow, you know what I'm saying.
You got, y'all got, fivechildren, but how many of yours?
Five?
I know I'm saying about howmany, how many of yours?
Five, five.
Now you know what I'm askingyou and I'm telling you all five
, five are mine.
Yeah, I'm saying how manybiological belong to you?

(01:30:50):
All five are mine.
That's all you get.

Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:30:54):
So that in terms of I just want to throw it out in
terms of the parenting, that'sgoing to help as well.

Speaker 1 (01:30:59):
Yeah it is Because, as they're growing up.

Speaker 3 (01:31:01):
They don't need to hear bonus four step.
Now they'll know that they gotanother because you'll have that
conversation.
They understand that Right.
But they keep hearing son, son,son, daughter, daughter,
daughter, not stepson, notstepdaughter.
I'm not introducing as mystepson, I'm not introducing my
stepdaughter.

Speaker 1 (01:31:19):
This is my son.

Speaker 3 (01:31:21):
And every conversation.
So they figure well again.
Well, how does that?
If y'all just got married, whatwas it?
Let them figure it out.
That's is that if y'all justgot married, let them figure it
out.

Speaker 1 (01:31:31):
Right, that's on them , they'll figure it out on their
own time.
Yeah, yeah, no, that's good, Ithink that's good, um, and I
appreciate that wisdom.
I'm, I'm, uh, um, and you know,while shamika was off screen,
pat really gave me some great,great words and I think other um
parents that have blendedfamilies really, really, really
great wisdom.
So I want to end it on this.

(01:31:56):
I want to know two things.
I do want you to kind of giveyour last kind of unlearnings
that you think parents,particularly of adult children,
but if it applies to any stage,but before we get there, what
are things that your childrenhave taught you that you didn't
expect to learn from them?

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
I would say that I've learned from them to like, but
I don't know if this is the,just let me say it.
They have taught me to trust,to trust the process.

Speaker 1 (01:32:23):
Okay, yeah, that's good.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
And, and not necessarily only in parenting,
but just in life period.
And now this is without themsaying, hey, mama, you need to
learn how to trust, but it'sjust been developing.
The other thing is that life isa creative experience.

(01:32:47):
Just enjoy the journey Like, bechildlike, always Like it's.
It's not about being perfect,it's about being there, you know
, and of course, you want tomature and develop Like you
should see some things getbetter in your own life as a
parent, you know.
And then the other thing toowould be um, I may, I may be

(01:33:12):
getting ahead of myself, butit's so.
In any career, any job, you lookfor feedback, right, and so
it's okay to ask the childrenhow can I be better?
How can I better serve you?
Right?
What is it that you need fromme as a mother?
Now they probably just going tosay I don't know, but it's like

(01:33:34):
if, if, if you could give me aheads up of what you thinking in
your mind, like how could Ibetter, you know, help you on
your journey of becoming a younglady or going to college or
whatever, whatever, whatever itis that they may be going
through.
But my point is it's just, it'sokay for you to go to them and
ask them to you to give you agrade on being a parent.

Speaker 1 (01:33:57):
That's really good.

Speaker 2 (01:33:57):
Would you give me an A, B, C, D, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:34:01):
And then take that feedback.
That's good.

Speaker 2 (01:34:04):
Yeah, and and and.
That was something that I wouldsay that we did do a lot.
That we did do a lot was whenwe would ask them for their
feedback, to reassure them thatthey were not going to get in
trouble.
Yeah, Of course they couldn'tcuss and all those type of
things, but they could reallylet it rip and there would be no

(01:34:26):
repercussions.
Like I wasn't going to withholda cookie or a brownie or a
piece of cake or you know what Imean.
Like they, they, they wasn'tgonna get in trouble.
No treats, you would still feedthem.

Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
And that again, that opens up the door for them to be
able to communicate Right.
So, now that they are youngadults, it's still some things
that they hide.
Young adults, it's still somethings that they hide.
They prefer not to say Sure,but I do believe that the line
of communication has beenestablished, that if it is

(01:34:58):
something they have to talk tous about, that it's not an easy
conversation, they will say hey,I need you to just listen and
hear me out.
You may be upset, but don'twild out, just hear me out.
That has helped a lot, that'sreally good.

Speaker 3 (01:35:16):
Can you hear me?

Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:35:18):
So for me, a couple of things patience I've learned
to just be patient with what Godis doing.
Or I have accepted that I haveto be patient with what God is
doing, or I have accepted that Ihave to be patient with what
God is doing, even though somethings I wanted to see.
I didn't see it immediately.

(01:35:39):
But if I just was just patientwith God and what he was working
with, eventually I began to seea glimpse of what God has shown
me about the children, aboutwhat we've been teaching them
that eventually, if you just bepatient and don't rush it, don't
get in the way, they'lleventually get it.

(01:36:01):
The other thing is I don't runnothing.

Speaker 1 (01:36:05):
I don't run nothing, yep, yep.
With a young adult you don'trun nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:36:08):
You know what I'm saying?
Nothing Tick run nothing, yep,yep.
With a young adult, you don'trun nothing, you know what I'm
saying Nothing, that they'regoing to make their decision.
Now, even if you got themsitting down and they're
standing up and you push them inthe chair, they may be
physically sitting down, butthey're standing up and they are
.
I don't run anything.

(01:36:28):
Allow, hand it up in theirheart.
You know what I'm saying?
So I don't, I don't runanything.
So, um, allow, allow the.
This is what patients part comeinto.
Uh, whatever decisions thatthey make and they've decided
that they really want to makethis decision, allow the process
to to work itself out and andthey will learn.
Um, they will learn that I wishthey were wise and learn from my
from my mistakes, rather thanbeing intelligent and learn from
they will learn.
I wish they were wise and learnfrom my from my mistakes,

(01:36:50):
rather than being intelligentand learn from their own
mistakes.
But sometimes they, they choosethat particular route and I
just have to trust God that thatit'll work itself out.
My son always tell me this, andthis is something I'm learning
now.
Is that it?
There's a point in my lifewhere it's okay to think about

(01:37:12):
me first?
My son said Dad, you did it,we're good, take care of you
first For a while.
As a child, it's always goingto be the child, the child, the
child, the child, the child, thechild, the child.
Now that they're old enough,they're saying we can do it,
take care of you first and thenwe'll see about ourselves.

(01:37:33):
So that's something that Ithink they've taught me and told
me.

Speaker 1 (01:37:37):
Yeah, final thoughts.
What other things?
If there's anything else thatyou want to share with parents,
that, at any stage that you'vehad to unlearn, that you feel
like is helpful?

Speaker 3 (01:37:53):
I'll leave this with what I forgot.
The guy was watching anotherpodcast and he made this
statement.
I'm not saying every parentwill go through this, but there
may be a possibility.
There are three stages thatmost parents go through.
The idolized stage this is whenthey're brand new, up until
they're about 10, and theyidolize you.

(01:38:14):
There's nothing you can dowrong.
You're the superhero.
Dad can do everything.
They love everything.
They love everything you do.
They laugh at all your jokes.
It's just, they just love you.
And so that first stage is theidolized stage.
Then they become adolescents,around 12 to about 25.
This is what he said, so don'tquote me on the actual age, but

(01:38:36):
about 12 to about 25, that's ademonized stage.
Nothing you say works, nothingyou say they like.
They can't stand you.
You get on their nerve.
They wish they can get at theirown house, they wish they could
leave, and you make me sick andI hate you if you have one of

(01:38:56):
those houses, whatever it may be, but there's nothing you can do
.
The peers have more influence.
Tv, social media has moreinfluence, and so you're trying
to autocorrect some of thethings that they're going and
they don't like it.
You don't know me, dad.
You don't understand me, mom,and that's your ways and this is
mine.

(01:39:16):
So that second stage, which isan extremely tough stage and
that's probably a longer stage,which is the demonized stage so
beginning, they idolize you.
Second, they demonize you.
And then, third is the realizedstage so, beginning, they
idolize you.
Second, they demonize you.
And then third is the realizedstage they realize, man, mom and
dad was right.
Typically that happens around30, because there's a certain

(01:39:38):
maturity level that the braingets to that they grab it, or
they now have children of theirown and they realize wait a
minute, mom and dad was right.
Mom and dad, I apologize, I,mom and dad, was right.
Mom, dad, I apologize, Ishouldn't have did that, mom and
dad.
So if you're in that adolescentstage or that young, that early
young adult stage, which is thedemonized part of the demonized

(01:39:59):
stage, it's okay.
Bear with it, be patient, don'tpanic, don't panic.
Be more open to hear than tosay Don't panic, don't panic,
yeah.
Be more open to hear than tosay, because at some point
they'll realize how much youwere for them and how much you
care about them.

Speaker 1 (01:40:15):
Wow, that's good.

Speaker 2 (01:40:17):
That's good.
I don't know if I can comebehind that, but Patrick said it
well, and don't be OK with notbeing okay, right, like it's
like remember that you'reparenting a whole human being.
That was assigned to you, right, and it's like I don't know

(01:40:39):
what to do.
Like I need help.
You know it's okay to admitwhen you need help.
Don't hide in shame and fearand thinking that you know
you're the only one that this ishappening.
To, like, go ahead and admitand search for the help to be
able to become a better parent.

(01:41:01):
And I would even say, too, wesay parent, but I would say that
parenting is kind of along theline of coaching, like you're
coaching somebody to a desireddestination, right?

Speaker 1 (01:41:18):
And prayerfully.

Speaker 2 (01:41:19):
As a parent, you have dedicated your children to the
Lord and you want to make surethat you pay attention to those.
Pay attention to who they are,so that you can help them get
there Right.
At least be on the road.
So if they choose to get off,that's not on you.
All right, yeah, every parentthat's listening.

(01:41:39):
If you know you have done yourpart and they chose to take a
detour, that does not mean thatsomething is wrong with you.
Maybe just an idea or somethingwas presented to the child and
they wanted to give it a try.
If you are alive and able tokind of get a view of what's

(01:42:03):
going on, just pray Again.
Their ears are probably deaf toeven hearing what you have to
say.
So make sure that you have anoutlet to be able to express
their frustration and a place toask for help so that you can
get through, especially thedemonized stage.

Speaker 3 (01:42:22):
yeah, yeah, one thing that I always say that going
through our demonized stagewithout children is that she
learned how to pray so wherethey at what, uh, what they have
taught us.
I don't think you know if theytaught us how to pray, how to
see god.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
Yeah, during that stage oh, you know what too ra
um, I think that we think thatit's a textbook Like if we do
everything, like we have so manyapps for everything, yep, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:42:55):
Yeah, for real.

Speaker 2 (01:42:56):
You can do the one, two, three.
It's like throw that out, throwthat out your mind and just
approach it from a creativecanvas standpoint, like let's
just see what this is going tobecome right.
Healthy again, healthyapproaches, but just know that
it's unique.
So what may work in yourhousehold may not work in my

(01:43:20):
household, because thechildren's temperaments are
different.

Speaker 1 (01:43:23):
They're different right.

Speaker 2 (01:43:24):
Right.
So yeah, just give space forgrace and and be okay with
discovering that's good that'sreally good man.

Speaker 1 (01:43:34):
This is good um.
Thank y'all for sharing yoursharing your wisdom, um sharing
your experience, your stories,um y'all are doing great.
You know, yeah and I say thisas an adult child uh, and and uh
, I love to see the way you guysparent, like I think you know I

(01:43:57):
get, I get a chance to see itup close a lot and it's like you
guys are do everything and I'llsay this everything that they
are saying, I've seen them dowow I've seen them do.
They're not just saying this, Ihave witnessed them do it, and
so I just want to affirm yourwords publicly are not just

(01:44:20):
words, you walk your talk, andthat is beautiful and I think
God is honoring that so.
I'm grateful to have a front rowview to.
I think my parents are awesomeexamples, but it's always good
to see others, you know, from adifferent perspective and learn
from others, and I learned fromyou guys.
So thank you for that man.

(01:44:44):
All right, so Patrick andShamika, everybody I don't have
an applause button, but if I did, I'd push it Again.
You can find them on YouTubeInstagram.
On Instagram His Wife HerHusband, 97 on YouTube His Wife,
her Husband, and they have apodcast His Wife Her Husband.

(01:45:07):
They also have a coachingbusiness and they are dope man.
If y'all need any kind of like,if y'all need help walking
through life and marriage, theseare the people.
These are the people.
As you can see, they've had alot of all of it.
They can help you out.
They help me out.
Just want to appreciate youguys.

(01:45:30):
You guys are special.
All right, y'all.
We'll be back next week withmore Unlearning, parenting and
we.
Until then, let's keepunlearning together.
Thank you once again forlistening to the Unlearned
Podcast.
We would love to hear yourcomments and your feedback about

(01:45:53):
the episode.
Feel free to follow us onFacebook and Instagram and to
let us know what you think.
We're looking forward to thenext time when we are able to
unlearn together to move forwardtowards freedom.
See you then.

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