August 24, 2025 • 65 mins
The emotional rollercoaster of back-to-school season affects every family differently, yet the mixture of excitement and anxiety remains universal. Parents rejoice at the return of routines while simultaneously worrying about their children's safety and success. Meanwhile, kids bounce between enthusiasm for seeing friends and fear of the unknown challenges ahead.
This episode dives deep into the behavioral changes parents often notice during this transition. Those increased sibling fights, the whining, the defiance – they're not random. Every behavior has a cause, and during back-to-school season, that cause is often stress – even when it's positive stress. Children's nervous systems respond to excitement and anxiety similarly, triggering fight-or-flight responses they struggle to regulate independently. As parents, our job isn't to punish these behaviors but to recognize them as signals and help our children navigate their complex emotions.
School safety emerges as a primary concern for most parents. We explore the delicate balance of trusting school staff while remaining vigilant about appropriate boundaries and interactions. The conversation doesn't shy away from difficult topics like teacher misconduct, school violence, and bullying, examining how geographic and socioeconomic factors influence these issues. Particularly enlightening is the discussion about COVID's lasting impact on social development, especially for children who missed crucial years of learning facial expressions and social cues behind masks.
For parents feeling overwhelmed, this episode offers practical strategies: validating children's feelings, advocating for accommodations like 504 plans and IEPs, building relationships with supportive teachers, and empowering children to understand their own needs. One guest shares her ritual of creating personal tokens with her children to symbolize their intentions for the year ahead – a beautiful way to acknowledge anxiety while focusing on growth.
Remember – you're not a nuisance when you speak up for your child; you're their most important advocate. Connect with us on social media Twitter/X: @UnmentionablesX; Facebook/Instagram/TikTok: @theunmentionablespodcast to share your own back-to-school experiences and strategies that work for your family.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Evan (00:00):
And we're back for another fun discussion.
Remember to follow us on socialmedia that's Facebook,
instagram and Twitter, at theUnmentionables Podcast X, at
Unmentionables X, and thank youso much for your support and for
tuning in Melissa.
Melissa (00:15):
It's the most wonderful time of the year and
it's the scariest time of theyear, it's back to school time,
yay.
If you are anything like me,you are so excited to have the
(00:38):
kids back in routine andschedule, back to a breath of
fresh air and back to the stressof the schedule and the
routines and the school demandsand the sports.
Evan (01:02):
Yeah, there's a lot going on.
There always is whenever we goback to school.
There's a lot for parents,there's a lot for the kids.
There's just an awful lot thatall happens at once and I think
it creates a swirlingenvironment of fun and a
swirling environment of fear,chaos, lots of different things
(01:24):
going on.
Environment of fear, chaos,chaos, lots of different things
going on, and I think we'dreally like to navigate some of
these ups and downs, theanxieties and excitements of the
back-to-school time, theback-to-school ritual I say
because it's always sort ofsimilar every year.
Right, get me out to get clothes.
I need a new book bag, it'stime for new shoes, and let's
(01:45):
talk about the realities of that.
Talk about some of the thingsthat we experience.
Let's talk about some of thethings that we know other people
are experiencing and then maybecircle back to some practical
steps that we can take to ensuresuccess for us and for our kids
.
Sounds good.
So let's talk first aboutparents.
Right, as parents, we knowthere are an awful lot of good
(02:08):
things and an awful lot of scarythings that are going on at
this time of the year For me, Iknow I'm excited.
The grocery bills are goingdown Teen parents you know what
I'm talking about If you haveteenagers.
Melissa (02:22):
Well, the board eating right.
I'm hungry, and then, an hourlater, but I'm still hungry
again, going through eightloaves of bread in a week.
Evan (02:34):
Exactly, exactly.
How many different ways can Imake eggs in a day?
Melissa (02:39):
Right, which is awesome when you have your own
chickens.
Evan (02:43):
Well, not everybody, not everybody has our pros.
Houses stay cleaner becausethere's nobody there to mess
them up constantly and then notpick up after themselves.
Right, for those parents outthere that have young kids and
maybe they're single parents ormaybe both parents are working
and they're not at home daycareexpenses go down because you
(03:04):
don't have to pay for full daydaycare anymore.
You've got school that's takinga big brunt of that right.
So there's a lot of good,wonderful, amazing things that
parents we see and we getexcited about.
They're going to be at school.
They're going to be learning.
They're going to be doing newthings.
They're going to be hanging outwith their friends.
They're going to be learning.
(03:25):
They're going to be doing newthings.
They're going to be hanging outwith their friends.
Melissa (03:27):
They're going to get some of that energy out at
recess.
But to get there we have tosurvive.
We need to survive thebehaviors that come before they,
or two, of school, especiallywhen they get home after school
and they're exhausted becausethey've been doing more things.
(03:51):
And when they're exhaustedthey're cranky and they're
irritable and just navigating,getting up earlier again.
But this is often when we seean increase in siblings being
nasty to each other, thewhininess, the poking and the
(04:13):
prodding and the defiance.
We see a lot of those thingsright now.
Evan (04:20):
Yeah, so parents are dealing with that and I think a
lot of parents are probablygoing.
Why is this a problem everysingle year around this time?
I don't think for most parentsright out of the box anyway,
they really fully understand.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat generally causes that kind
of, those kinds of actions andresponses?
(04:41):
What are the kids feeling,that's really causing that and
how can parents recognize it?
Melissa (04:48):
So I think it's really important for us as parents to
know that every behavior has acause.
There's a reason underneath it,because we have good kids that
struggle, and it's not just astruggle when there's negative
stressors happening.
Exciting things are stress too,and our body's nervous system
(05:14):
responds to that in the fight orflight response.
So when we are extremelyexcited about a new teacher and
seeing our friends again, kidshave a hard time regulating.
They rely on us as parents tohelp them co-regulate.
(05:34):
So if we're going to do that,we need to stay calm in the face
of whatever they're bringing atus and instead of reacting to
the behavior on the surface,parents can take that step back
and say okay, my kid is under alevel of stress right now, even
(05:57):
over something exciting, andit's my job to step back and
help them navigate that.
Let's talk about feelings.
We grew up in a generationwhere feelings weren't okay.
We stuffed our feelings and ifwe had big feelings, feelings we
(06:31):
were sent away to our room orpunished for them.
And it's instinctual for us asparents to respond in that same
way, unless we recognize it anddo better.
Evan (06:38):
Yeah, absolutely no better , do better.
Melissa (06:40):
No better do better.
No better, do better yeah.
Evan (06:44):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit tooabout, as parents, some of the
fears that we have.
Right, because while there's alot of wonderful, there's a lot
of fears that we have that goalong with the kids going back
to school.
We talk about the safety of thechildren.
Yes, we are entrusting ourbabies, our children, to other
(07:07):
people who we have varyinglevels of understanding of.
Melissa (07:11):
Absolutely, and while there are a lot of people the
vast majority of people thatwork in schools and I
experienced this in our homedistrict they love our kids,
they truly care about thephysical and emotional
well-being of our kids.
(07:39):
Teacher who had sex with astudent or was accused of
touching a student, whether itwas proven or not, and I know,
for me as a parent, that givesme concern and reason to pause
(07:59):
and look at a district and whatthe district's priorities are.
Evan (08:06):
Yeah, yeah, and it's interesting you bring that up.
There's been so many things inthe news lately, like you said,
locally as well as nationallyjust recently, within the last
few months, about even yearsabout teachers and staff being
inappropriate with students indifferent ways or accused of
(08:29):
being inappropriate withstudents in different ways, and
you know there's multiple levelsof thought that go into this
right.
Whenever something like thishappens, it's big online.
It hits the social media pages,the Facebook groups, and you
start to see messages like thisteacher has been weird for 30
plus years, or you know even theflip side of that.
(08:51):
You know this accusation isjust an accusation.
Let's see how the facts play out, which I think is kind of more
of a reasonable take.
Okay, let's talk about what therealities are of this situation
, but then you've got the fullflip side of that, which is you
can't trust what these kids say.
They just don't like thisteacher because they failed them
(09:13):
or whatever it might be.
And I think there's so muchspeculation that goes on on
those online communities.
It can really difficult to sortout the facts and the truth and
, depending on how the districtshandle things and depending on
how the people respond tocertain things it can go
(09:36):
different ways.
You've got situations wheredistricts you know, you've had a
teacher who's had a history, along history, decades-long
history of accusations that whenthere's smoke there's generally
fire of some kind.
Melissa (09:52):
I was going to say, when there's that much smoke,
there's a fire, and those arethe most dangerous ones.
The most dangerous ones Becausewhen we look at the profile of
a predator, we look at somebodywhere they know the lines, they
know the legal definitions, theyknow how to skirt right up to
(10:17):
the edge of a boundary but notcross it.
So if someone does saysomething they know, nothing can
be proven and nothing that theydid actually crosses into the
line of getting them in trouble.
Evan (10:36):
Yeah.
Melissa (10:37):
That's scary.
Evan (10:38):
And you've got these teachers unions that are
protecting these, that areprotecting these, and I stop
short of saying that the unionsare actively protecting
predators, even though I feellike their actions on behalf of
their quote unquote members tendto protect the bad actors more
so than the good.
(11:00):
Teachers caught in a misfortuneand there have been that I mean
out of Forsyth County, NorthCarolina.
There is a teacher that has nowfiled a lawsuit against the
Forsyth County sheriff andseveral investigative officers
after allegations of a sex crimefrom a student were proven
incorrect and it seemed to, atleast to this former teacher and
(11:24):
his attorney, that theinvestigators just wanted to
find him guilty.
Right, Because a student saidit.
It must be a fact.
Not only was lying mentally ill, Wow, and had several instances
(11:48):
where they bragged abouthurting that teacher for a
variety of different reasons.
Melissa (11:55):
Right, and I think that's why you have to look at
every one of these cases througha separate lens, looking at the
fact that kids do have accessto more information through the
Internet and social media.
And I mean I can tell you,having been Child Protective
(12:19):
Services child abuseinvestigator, that we know when
kids have been coached, we knowwhen things don't add up, when
well-trained, I should say, uspolice can see through the smoke
and typically discern, whichagain, is very different than
(12:45):
something meeting the definitionof child abuse or meeting a
threshold to press criminalcharges.
Evan (12:53):
Sure, absolutely.
And again, to go back to sortof the handling of these
situations, right, a lot of thepublic sentiment is about how
the district handles thesethings when you have a situation
where you have someone who hasa long history of these kinds of
accusations and nothing hasever been done, the public
(13:14):
becomes skeptical of that schooldistrict and so whatever that
school district comes to as ananswer to whatever the most
recent complaint is, it's likelythat the public is going to
turn on that district andthere's going to be some kind of
a backlash right, because,again, like you said, where
there's smoke of that kind,there's generally fire.
Melissa (13:33):
Well, and think about all the options that a district
would have.
They can relocate a teacher,because I think we have to
recognize, especially withteachers' unions, that they
can't just fire someone overallegations.
And I will also say, within theprofile of one of these
predators they will want to stayand they will want to remain.
Evan (13:58):
Well, that's where their target rich environment is that
they've groomed right.
Melissa (14:01):
They'll remain in the same environment.
They won't want to move to adifferent school within the
district.
They won't want to move to adifferent position within the
district because if theallegations follow them, it
gives validity to it.
But these people recognize thatif they stay where they are.
(14:33):
Well, now they've been shown tobe innocent.
Well, now they've been shown tobe innocent.
People, even now more so won'twant to report because somebody
else reported.
And look what happened?
Nothing.
So what's the point?
Evan (14:52):
Right, agreed.
I mean that's been a societalquestion around sexual abuse.
For, going back as far as I canimagine, sure that it's been a
crime, right.
Melissa (15:07):
It's a crime that's so hard to prove, right?
Because it's less than 5% ofcases.
If there is any kind oftransfer of DNA or forensic
evidence, less than 5% of casesthat are seen within 24 hours
(15:28):
actually have forensic evidence.
So when you're talking aboutthings like groping, being up
close on somebody, you'retalking about things where there
isn't necessarily DNA transferor any kind of penetration
either.
What we're looking at is hesaid, she said.
Evan (15:49):
Yeah.
Melissa (15:50):
And our society and it's been shown over and over
again doesn't care to listen toour children.
Evan (15:57):
Yeah, no, I agree.
I mean again, you know, andthere's smoke and there's fire,
and there's times where it'strue and there's times where
it's not, and a lot of it goesback to how the district handles
the situation, how transparentthe situation is.
Again, I go back to the unionson this.
It makes it difficult when theunions want to keep everything
(16:19):
hush-hush hidden and force thedistricts into those kinds of
situations.
You know there was anotherstory out of Virginia this is
actually a Christian schoolwhere a teacher there was
accused of committing sex crimesand that school handled it
(16:40):
differently.
Melissa (16:42):
You know, I think this is actually amazing.
That was out of Virginia, right?
Yes?
And this school found out thata female teacher was having sex
with a male high school studentand they themselves reported it
(17:03):
to police within an hour,they're saying, of finding out.
And what's interesting to meabout this is a school
representative named Jones toldWSET-TV she said we chose
integrity instead of it beingswept under the rug.
(17:25):
She goes on to say scripture isvery clear that if it was done
in the dark it was going to bebrought to light.
And this I actually.
I get what's it called whenyour skin like Tingly, yeah,
tingly.
I get all tingly when I readthis, because this is what we
(17:45):
were talking about last weekaccountability, and this school
knew especially as a Christianschool, and I read a bunch of
the comments and it was, ofcourse, it happened in a
Christian school.
Other ones were you know whyare you proud of yourself for
reporting?
You have to report, and I thinkabout this and I go.
Well, how many districts don'treport their own teacher?
(18:09):
How many sweep it under the rugand the teacher goes and finds
another job?
How many times does this happenin public schools?
Why wouldn't it happen in aChristian school, and at least
this school and these people arestanding by what they believe.
They reported it, they'redealing with it and they knew.
(18:33):
They knew they'd be condemnedBacklash repercussions and they
said we're going to stand in thelight anyway, and we know this
is wrong.
We're going to actually dosomething light anyway, and we
know this is wrong.
We're going to actually dosomething about it.
That's a school that I wouldsend my kid to, because they
care more about my student'ssafety and well-being than their
(18:57):
own reputation, and I thinkthat we're seeing a great lack
of that in the public schoolsystem today.
Evan (19:06):
Yeah, yeah, it can be scary to send your kids into
those kinds of environments, andso we've talked a lot about
teachers and the safety aspectthere.
Let's switch gears a little bitto school violence.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthat because I know, especially
as the kids get older, it's not,I think, as bad for playtime
(19:26):
and, you know, maybe morefocused on their position within
(19:49):
their social ranks, it buildsanimosity and things like fights
and you know, weapons andschools and those kinds of
things come into play and I knowthat that is a fear that a lot
of parents have.
Melissa (20:05):
Sure, and I know we usually do see this more up at
the high school level,especially with fights breaking
out, that kind of stuff.
And I would just encourageparents that it comes back to
what you're teaching your kids,what you're modeling for your
kids.
Are you modeling conflictresolution?
(20:27):
Are you telling them you knowwell, if somebody hurts, you go,
punch them in the face?
Are you teaching them thatviolence is how you handle
things?
Or are we teaching our kids ifyou have an out, take the out,
Don't look for the fight.
And, quite honestly, these daysa lot of parents are bullies
(20:51):
and they're raising bullies andwe look at it wanting to change
the world, wanting to have akind place where we just accept
each other and we don't all haveto be the same, we don't have
to believe the same things.
We can have our own strengthsand weaknesses and allow other
(21:16):
people to be who they are andjust be nice.
What happened to kindness?
Evan (21:21):
Well, that's a great question and actually something
that I was thinking a little bitabout, and so I looked into
some of the statistics around.
You know violence, schoolviolence and victimization and
those kinds of things and,unsurprisingly to, I think, most
people you know, the heavierviolence trends in terms of you
(21:42):
know more school violence tendto be in populated areas, cities
, for example, city centers andall of those kinds of things
where you have a mass of people.
I think you have lots ofdifferent dynamics when it comes
to how people are raised inthose situations.
(22:04):
I mean, look just candidly andagain, that's what this show is
all about.
It sure is, the cities arerougher places.
The cities are places where Ithink people are tired of other
people being on top of them allthe time, where everybody has an
opinion.
Melissa (22:20):
It's a lower socioeconomic status.
You have parents workingoutside the home.
You have multi-generationalliving situations.
Evan (22:30):
Tons of single parent dynamics.
Melissa (22:32):
Tons.
Evan (22:33):
You've got Gang associations Higher rates of
drug activity.
Melissa (22:41):
You have all of these underlying issues that lead to
more conflict.
Evan (22:48):
Yeah, and that spills over into the schools and you have
those kinds of situations thathappen there.
And then as you get, what wasinteresting to me, if you look
at it, is as you spiral out froma city and you go into the
suburban areas, where again it'smore densely packed than your
rural communities.
But that socioeconomicsituation changes, right, you
(23:13):
have people who are making moremoney, right, you have people
who have a little bit more spacebetween them and their
neighbors and you generally sortof start to see that trend of
violence lessen.
The further and further you getout from the city you see that
trend lessen.
Now what I will say is that youfind in places where they've
(23:35):
done some integration soDelaware is an example.
I used to live to schools outthere as opposed to putting
schools or keeping schoolsinside the city.
Melissa (23:58):
Oh, interesting.
Evan (23:59):
We found that those suburban areas near Wilmington
where the students were gettingbused in from the city were
seeing more rates of violencethan schools that were further
out from the city and weregetting less of those students
bused out to them.
Melissa (24:16):
Well, it's a mentality , it's a lifestyle, it's a way
of conducting oneself.
That's learned behavior, it istruly survival at a young age,
and it's it's intergenerational,yeah.
Evan (24:38):
And then, as you get out into the urban or the rural
areas, away from the urbancenters and out to the rural
areas, you see a lot lessviolence and, believe it or not,
a lot less bullying.
Melissa (24:49):
Yes.
Evan (24:50):
I know a lot that may come as a surprise to a lot of
people, because they think thosehicks, those hillbillies, they
don't accept people that aredifferent from them.
And I think we live in a veryrural community.
We have a very rural schooldistrict.
I mean, this is the kind ofplace where we don't need to, we
(25:11):
don't need to outsource ouragricultural technology studies.
They could go across the street.
Melissa (25:15):
Oh honey, kids come to school riding on a tractor.
We've had cows in the highschool as senior pranks.
Evan (25:23):
Right.
So I mean, this is a ruralcommunity that we live in and,
you know, even in our own familywe have kids.
That are neurodivergent.
We have kids that color theirhair in wildly amazing ways.
That are cool and fun, sure,but you might think in a place
(25:44):
like this that they would getbullied or picked on, and you
just don't see it as much.
Sometimes you do, but it's notas much.
Melissa (25:53):
I think we have to rely on those around us more
down here because we are furtherapart.
Yeah, and my experience is thatit breeds a stronger community
of, if you need help withsomething, you ask around and
somebody has got extra ofsomething, or even if that's
(26:16):
extra time, that they're willingto come and lend a hand.
They're willing to lendresources.
They're willing to lend bothphysical resources and labor
resources.
It really is.
Now we also live among theAmish and even there you see
people helping people, caringabout people.
(26:39):
We walk into Tractor Supply andeverybody's talking to
everybody about everything.
Evan (26:45):
Absolutely.
It was one of the biggestchanges for me, coming from
Delaware, which is much morealigned with sort of the city
lifestyle of put your know, putyour head down and walk.
You know, live and let live.
I'm not going to you know,associate, not associate.
But I'm not going to go out ofmy way to have a conversation
with you because it's none of mybusiness.
(27:06):
Whatever you're doing here isnone of my business.
But in the rural communitiespeople, you're right, they do
care.
You can put a post on Facebookabout needing some stone and
within an hour you'll havesomebody that's like come book
about needing some stone andwithin an hour you'll have
somebody that's like come, getthe stone out of my backyard
because I need to get rid of itanyway, so I can plant there
Right.
Melissa (27:24):
You know, whatever it might be, and I think even like
when we speak about the teachersand the vast majority of the
staff at the district, you knowit's not every day that
principals are getting ducttaped to walls as a reward to
the students for whatever it was.
Evan (27:45):
Yes, this was deliberate.
This was not.
It wasn't done.
Melissa (27:49):
Or the principal who's chasing a goat down the road
and it makes its way ontoFacebook.
But even with that, you know,it's not every day that you have
a middle school principal and Ideeply respect this who in
morning announcement says hey,just in case you haven't heard
this yet today, just know,you're loved goes and still
(28:14):
plays four square with the kidsat recess because we still have
recess time in middle school andshoots that basketball and high
fives the kids and actually isgenuinely getting to know them.
Evan (28:29):
Absolutely Moral of that story is you can high five the
kids, but don't pat their butts.
Melissa (28:34):
Don't touch their butts.
And I, you know, I want topause on that too, because what
do we do as parents when our kidcomes home and says, hey, this
teacher put their hand on me,and I know, I try to avoid
conflict and try to get a feelfor it.
And where is that line?
(28:56):
And where is that line?
I'm a huge proponent of kidshaving a voice and using it
respectfully, recognizing thatkids have choices and that they
have autonomy over their body.
And I think there's a bigdifference between a female
student finding a female teacherand saying I'm having a really
(29:18):
rough day, can I have a hug?
It's also different inelementary school than it is in
middle school or high school.
Mm-hmm, I think under nocircumstances should a male be
putting a hand on a femalestudent, putting a hand on a
(29:41):
female student, nor should afemale teacher be putting a hand
on a male student.
Now, there's going to be a lotof other opinions on that.
I think it depends on therelationship that a teacher has
with a student.
Evan (29:50):
Yeah, I mean, we know principals and assistant
principals that will walk up andgive a side hug to a kid that
looks like they're struggling orwhatever Totally appropriate.
And I think those aresituations where, again, as
parents, we have to bediscerning, we have to
understand what we're dealingwith in the situations and we
(30:12):
have to trust our guts.
We know when something seemsoff and when something seems
innocuous.
Melissa (30:19):
But our kids do too.
And think about that for asecond, because if your kid
comes to you and says thisteacher's creepy and he cupped
my shoulder and rested hisforearm on my back and leaned on
me and I was reallyuncomfortable, that's vastly
(30:39):
different than hey.
I was real upset at schooltoday and I started to cry and I
went down to this teacher'sroom and asked for a hug and
that teacher gave me a hug andsat with me and we talked.
Those are two extremelydifferent scenarios.
Evan (30:57):
Wildly different.
We're talking about Wildlydifferent, absolutely,
absolutely, and then as parentsagain.
So there's the safety aspect,there's teachers, there's other
students, school violence.
There's also the mental safetyaspect.
When we talk about bullying,this is something that has
(31:19):
always existed.
I think to a certain extentright Again, we kind of
mentioned this earlier there'salways some level of social
dynamic where the kid that's alittle different-.
Melissa (31:28):
That's life, that's even as adults.
Evan (31:30):
The person that's a little bit different gets ostracized
to a certain degree, a certainlevel, and I'm not suggesting
that that's right, I'm notsuggesting that that is what we
aspire to as a people, but it isreality and I think it is
something that we have torecognize and understand exists
(31:51):
and I think that schools havepretty good job of looking at
the social, you know innerdynamics of the kids at all age
levels, especially early in life, and maybe that's part of the
trends that we're seeing wherebullying is kind of reducing.
Now, if you look at the trendsright now, if you were to go and
(32:14):
chat, gpt this or Google it,you're going to see that there's
a reduction, quote unquote, inthese bullying and victimization
statistics and it's going tolook fairly significant.
The problem that I have withthose studies at this point is
they're typically done over theCOVID period, where nobody was
(32:35):
in school, and so it's a littlebit of a.
I have a little bit of healthyskepticism on that.
I want to see what the latestnumbers are now that the kids
are generally, you know, back inphysical school.
But we do see a big reduction.
I think a lot of what we do asparents is think about things
(32:57):
the way they were when we wereyounger, sure, and apply that to
today without maybe reallyunderstanding, right, I think
maybe you can talk a little bitabout your perspective on this,
because I know that you arereally engaged with the kids,
with their teachers, and youkind of understand the realities
(33:18):
of today versus what weexperienced.
Melissa (33:21):
Sure, you know, even when we talk about bullying, I
think some of the bigger issuesright now really are in
elementary school and middleschool and it has to do with
child development andimpulsivity.
It has to do with insecurityKids who are insecure with
(33:41):
themselves we know trend towardbullying.
And also kids who are insecuretend to look at groups of people
who may not be bullying butjust be afraid to enter that
group because it's intimidating.
(34:01):
And I think that working withthese kids, encouraging them to
just try to be friends witheverybody and if there's
somebody you don't get alongwith, you can just choose to not
spend time with them.
That's okay, go find adifferent friend.
(34:22):
But a lot of this stuff thatwe're seeing really is it's
developmental.
We're seeing a lot of socialdelays still from COVID.
The younger kids, well, let'ssee going into even kids going
into fourth grade right nowwe're not in the public school
setting yet when COVID happenedand we're seeing fears of social
(34:47):
environments, fears of theworld.
All of that comes from whatthey were born into and what
they lived through in their veryearly years.
And for people who chose tomask, they didn't learn how to
read social expression, theydidn't learn those basic cues
(35:07):
and I think after we stoppedmasking, I don't think anybody
really thought about wow, thesekids are going to be really
delayed in that.
Evan (35:15):
Wow, these kids are going to be really delayed in that.
That's a really reallyimportant point that I think has
gone underrepresented in thediscussions, you know, during
COVID and since COVID, in termsof the ability for our kids, you
(35:39):
know, to really progresssocially.
That, you know, just being awayfrom everybody and online on a
computer is one thing, right,there's still video, there's
still the ability to sort of seefaces and stuff like that.
It's maybe more limited and theinteractions in person versus,
you know, on a computer, alwaysdifferent, right.
But I also think, a%, when kidsare young and they're
developing and they're learningsocial cues and all of those
(36:03):
things, it's really anunderrated importance to be able
to see facial expressions andfull body language and all of
those things that these kidswere deprived of during their
formative school yearskindergarten through second,
third grade while we were inthat COVID situation.
(36:24):
And I think it's a great pointto call out that maybe as
parents we need to be a lot moreunderstanding about our young
kids and where they aredevelopmentally.
Melissa (36:36):
Well, and we need to get them off devices and back to
team sports, back to outsideinteraction and activities and
actually interacting in socialenvironments.
Evan (36:49):
Yeah, yeah.
And as parents, another thingthat we're concerned about, or
scary for us, is academicsuccess.
How can I prepare the kids forsuccess academically?
How can we get them to a placewhere they are ready for the
year?
Can you just talk a little bitabout?
(37:09):
With all of the anxieties andall of the things that the kids
are going through right now andall that they're feeling, how do
we prepare them mentally forwhat's coming?
Melissa (37:22):
I was going to say.
I don't know if anybody isgoing to like my response to
that, because I don't agree withteaching to tests.
I think that we've done ourkids a really huge disservice
and I'm not worried about my kidbeing ready for the year.
I know as a kid and I'm theyoungest of three and I always
(37:47):
say I was the dumb one in thefamily, right, and the reality
of that is that it's true in avery real sense, because out of
the three of us I had the lowestIQ, still smart, but compared
to them I wasn't, and what cameeasily to them didn't come
(38:07):
easily to me.
I had to figure out how to workfor things, and so I remember
going into every single schoolyear truly and honestly
believing I was going to fail.
I'm not going to know thisstuff, I'm not going to be able
to learn it, it's going to betoo hard.
(38:28):
And I remember my mom saying tome before every school year
Melissa, just remember, theystart with a review, they start
with the stuff you alreadylearned.
I see that now as an adultlooking back, but our kids don't
see that, and especially whenour kids have areas of weakness,
(38:50):
which they all do, it's fearsof?
Will I fail?
Will I be able to keep up of?
Will I fail?
Will I be able to keep up?
If they've had a hard time inclasses before?
If they've had a hard timekeeping up with classes, this is
where, as parents, you're theirbest advocate.
(39:13):
If they're struggling, let's notsettle for the school, saying
they just need to work harder.
Let's go in.
Let's look at things like 504plans.
Let's look at IEPs.
Let's look at are we demandingtoo much of our children?
You know I'm a parent thatdoesn't believe in homework.
I don't take my work home withme at the end of my workday.
M2 (39:32):
Right.
Melissa (39:33):
And if we're going to say that school is their work A,
they don't get paid for it.
But they sure as heck don't getpaid to bring it home.
Yeah, home, that's my time withmy kid.
Yeah, don't you dare invade onmy time.
Evan (39:48):
Yeah, parents, I think if you're listening to this and
you're a parent, understand thatyou have parental rights,
understand that these are yourchildren, and just because you
send them to a school to learnthings doesn't mean you just
have to accept what the schoolsuggests.
Melissa (40:06):
Absolutely.
Evan (40:07):
Right.
There are avenues for studentswho need more help.
There are 504 plans.
There are IEPs.
There are just discussions withgood teachers to say here's how
Johnny learns, Right?
A lot of teachers are willing.
Most teachers are willing to,because they want the kids to be
(40:28):
successful, right?
Even if they are bound to atest for their performance,
right?
If little Johnny learns betterin this way, then little
Johnny's gonna do better on thetest when it comes to it.
Melissa (40:42):
Somebody can read the test to little Johnny Right.
And for the parents who alreadyhave 504s and IEPs, my favorite
thing is when I get contactedby a teacher to say my kid isn't
doing this, that or the otherthing and I say well, have you
followed the guidelines in theirIEP?
Evan (41:03):
Yeah, Sometimes you have to remind them that that thing
exists and they have to do thosethings.
They give me a blank look,because what they're tattling on
my kid for is already describedin the IEP as an accommodation
Right right and also I thinkit's valuable for parents to
recognize that you have a rightand your kids have a right to a
(41:27):
certain extent.
Sure, do To ask for changes tothat.
504 or that.
Iep throughout the year, asthings come up.
You don't necessarily have towait until the IEP meeting.
Melissa (41:42):
You don't have to.
You can call a meeting anytimethere's a problem, and they are
required to convene the wholegroup unless they're willing to
modify it right then.
So if they're willing to modifyand move forward with the
change, a meeting doesn't haveto happen.
But if they argue it well,we'll convene a whole meeting
(42:05):
and that's everybody's time.
Let's bring everybody togetherand have a conversation.
Oftentimes the district alreadyknows that what they're doing
isn't correct and you know, alot of parents just aren't
educated in this.
I mean, I can tell you my kidsall have a copy of their IEP or
(42:26):
504 in their possession.
Yeah, so you know if it's partof that 504, that a teacher
needs to give them advancedwarning for the section that
they're going to need to read tothe class so they can pre-read
it.
And then the teacher randomlycalls on them.
My kid can say, hey, you didn'tlet me know in advance, so I'm
(42:50):
going to pass.
And they have that documentright there.
Evan (42:54):
Yeah, yeah.
And these are tools that youhave for your kids for a reason.
These are tools your kids havefor a reason.
You're allowed and you'reencouraged to use them.
So, as parents, we need to bemore empowered.
Melissa (43:06):
And empower our kids and empower our kids, absolutely
Our kids are allowed to have avoice, they are allowed to speak
up and that's it.
If your kid is coming home andsaying this happened, find out
more.
If your kid comes home and saysthis made me uncomfortable, ask
and find out more.
(43:27):
Let's stop sweeping stuff underthe rug.
Evan (43:31):
Absolutely.
Melissa (43:32):
And let's stand in the light and have conversations,
let's have open dialogue.
Evan (43:37):
Absolutely, and have conversations.
Let's have open dialogue,absolutely.
Speaking of conversations andopen dialogue, I know that we
have a special guest with us.
Melissa (43:44):
We do.
M2 is one of the clinicianshere at the practice and I
thought that she just might havesome really awesome input on
this.
Evan (43:53):
Yeah, m2 is also a Melissa , and so because we have two
Melissa's, the owner gets topbilling.
She's M1.
Melissa (44:02):
Well, did you ever hear where that came from?
Evan (44:04):
No.
Melissa (44:05):
We do a theme for Halloween.
Every year, our whole buildinggets together and we have a big
Halloween party and we always doa theme as an office.
And so we were Dr Seuss the oneyear and instead of being Thing
1 and Thing 2, we were M1 andM2.
Evan (44:22):
Oh, that's great.
So we're going to bring M2 intothe conversation.
Melissa (44:27):
So, melissa, we were just having this conversation
out in the lobby and talkingabout different school stressors
and how we're navigating thatfor our kids and stuff, and I
thought it was really cool whenyou were telling me about some
of the things that you'vealready done and we're doing.
So my hope was that you couldjust share with people what are
(44:50):
some of the stressors andanxieties that you've had as a
parent.
M2 (44:54):
Yeah, so yeah, just to even like paint the picture like both
my kids are the one my daughteris entering seventh grade, my
son is entering fifth grade, soalso his last year of elementary
school.
So that's like playing into it,definitely, like they're both
neurodivergent.
My daughter daughter has had todeal with a lot of kind of like
(45:15):
bullying last year so that wasplaying into some of the
anxieties, like for me wantingto protect her going into the
school year.
And then I think for my sonhe's kind of been able to scoot
past.
He's very charismatic, so he'sbeen able to scoot past some of
the like sure, the bullying, butthere's still that fear like
he's entering fifth grade kidsare going to start to notice
(45:37):
he's a little bit different.
But yeah, so I don't know.
I think leading up to it wewere having a lot of talks about
like things that they'relooking forward to and so they
were starting school this pastweek, yeah, so the day before I
took the day off we went likedowntown Lancaster doing some
(46:01):
shopping.
We went to pottery work so thatwe could like calm ourselves
down, like so then we weren'tthinking constantly about the
looming like dread of school thenext day, and then we talked
about like the things, likeparticularly for them, what like
their fears were, and then alsolike their like intention for
the year, or like their goal, orif they could like sum up the
(46:25):
year like what they want tofocus on in one word and more
from like the focus of like youknow them as people, because I
feel like for them particularly,I'm like you know what I think.
Academics we're fine, sure,like we're going to get you're
also like seventh grade andelementary school, but like more
just their own like personaldevelopment.
Melissa (46:47):
Yeah, Can you share a little bit about, maybe, what
they came up with?
M2 (46:50):
Yeah, so they were focusing on, I think, for my daughter
like a lot just like working onbeing like boldly herself, and I
think she even like her wordwas kind of like courage.
But so my son, like, wasthinking about like
self-confidence for her andfound they both like picked out
(47:11):
like a stone, that kind of likesymbolized like what they were
focusing on.
So the one that like was for mydaughter was like
self-confidence, my son terrible, but I don't remember what this
was.
Um, but yeah, and then theyeach picked like a little, a
little token that had like ananimal on it that like would you
(47:34):
know kind of be like theirthing to to calm them and then
put them in like a little likesatchel and then we tucked them
in their backpack.
So then there was like a focusof like.
Okay, this is what we're doingfor the year, this is what's
going to carry us through.
I love that yeah, yeah.
Can you tell me about the sageyeah, so then I got like burnt
(47:55):
some sage and was like I had awood on the backpack and just
kind of like moved around themand of course, for them they
were like you know what, mom?
Okay, whatever, this is whatwe're doing.
But I think like we've worked alot on just like being able to
express, like you know, for me Iknow that I was really anxious
and for them to be able to saylike this, like, like I don't,
(48:18):
like you're feeling anxious, I'mfeeling a little bit anxious,
but like you can keep youranxiety on your side.
Evan (48:25):
Don't add to it.
Yes.
I'll be at birth and stage, andthen we're just going to like
If this helps you, we'll do it.
M2 (48:31):
So the answer's for you yeah , well, I think for both because
it was like yeah, and I thinkfor both it was like yeah, and I
think for them it was just moreof like that intentional, like
oh, we're taking time, we'reacknowledging like we're feeling
anxious and that we can bringthat anxiety too, like they can
come and talk to me.
Melissa (48:48):
You validated it.
Yeah, you said this makes sense.
Let's feel it and I'm going tosit here with you, which is
beautiful, yeah.
Do you have any other thoughtsor suggestions on?
You know, other than just beingintentional, about recognizing
(49:10):
it and talking through it, andeven the act of pottery and how
that uses our hands and it's,it's calming in that way?
Do you have any other tips orthoughts about how other parents
might be able to recognizeanxiety in themselves or their
kids?
Self-care, what to do with itright.
M2 (49:32):
Well, I think, like one other thing that I was thinking
with, like the, that, like formy daughter, I, I wrote out her
schedule in a way that she,because the schedule, they gave
her was overwhelming withinformation and she had said I
can't, it doesn't make sense.
So then we talked about okay,what do you actually need, and
separate it out in a way thatmade sense for her.
(49:54):
So that was super helpful.
But yeah, I think like theother thing is just kind of like
like first ask them like howare you about school before like
me just throwing on like thisfeels really anxious.
Evan (50:09):
Yeah, I struggle with that so much because, like when I
was in school, I had a difficulttime Like my last name.
I get picked on all the timeLike right it was, it was, it's
wild.
You know the name quite shy.
I learned what a queef was whenI was eight.
So it was, it was kind of wild.
(50:33):
But I project that at timesonto the kids and I sort of
catch myself.
But I'm sure there are otherparents out there that are doing
that.
So I think that's great to sortof take a step back and ask
them first, like okay, what areyour concerns?
If any?
What are you thinking about?
(50:54):
Are you anxious, are youexcited, or both?
Or both, you know, because youcan have two sides of that coin,
sure.
Melissa (51:02):
They can exist at the same time.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
M2 (51:06):
And I think, even like I don't know, I know like a big
thing, just even the past yearthat's been helpful is like
telling, like particularly formy daughter, telling her like
when she goes to see her owntherapist, I will say, like you
know, I've said tons of timeslike you can drag me through the
dirt if that's going to helpyou to work through your stuff.
Like, because I think she wasvery, you know, like protective
(51:28):
of, like not wanting to saythings bad about us, about like
her friends, like, and so, yeah,like realizing that you can
like have this thing that youdon't like and also really care
about the person is a bigmessage that we've been trying
to work on and so, even withschool, that, like you know, you
can have those differentfeelings and that she can like.
(51:49):
She'll tell me tons of timeslike Mom, I hear like you're,
you're feeling anxious, you keepyour anxiety on that side of
the car, or whatever.
She is the daughter of atherapist.
Yeah, I think, just likeletting them know.
Yeah, they can feel like I canfeel like Looting over.
Yeah, and.
I think also like recognize thatlike I needed that day and to
(52:13):
just like do something, not justlike focus on you know.
Of course in my head I wouldorganize, like their rooms.
We should get all these thingsset up.
I think we need to not bethinking about you know.
Think about like, okay, how areyou going to feel?
Melissa (52:27):
Organize their brains yeah, yeah and get them and
their nervous system yes.
Evan (52:33):
Give them a minute to rest and sort of prepare, right yeah
.
Melissa (52:39):
Thanks for coming in.
Yeah, absolutely Thanks forsharing with us.
Thank you, we'll see you again.
Thank you.
Evan (52:46):
Well, that was such a fascinating discussion.
I think we've learned a lottoday about sort of where we are
as parents, where our kids arewith the back-to-school time
period, parents, where our kidsare with the back to school time
period.
We learned a lot about, youknow, how we can recognize
(53:08):
what's going on both with us andwith our kids.
The discussion with M2 isfascinating around sort of how
she handles the situation andwhat she was feeling and, I
think, poignant discussions withher kids telling her to keep
her anxieties to herself.
I think that's something that weas parents tend to do.
We tend to over-empathize,maybe with our kids and drop
(53:30):
some of our anxieties in theirlap.
These kids should be allowed tohave their feelings and share
those feelings.
We want to encourage them tothink about the positives right,
reconnecting with friends andseeing their teachers that they
form bonds with and all the coolactivities that they're going
to face, and while recognizingthat they have anxieties like
(53:55):
will I fit in?
This school is so big, and whatif I get lost?
What if I don't do wellacademically?
And we've talked aboutrecognizing those things and how
those fears are real.
And maybe, melissa, you canrecap how do we as parents, work
with our kids and allay our ownfears as well as theirs.
Melissa (54:19):
Sure, I think you really hit the nail on the head.
We want to validate.
We want to validate that thesekids have feelings and that
those feelings are very real tothem.
It doesn't mean we have toagree, it doesn't mean we have
to have the same feelings, butrecognizing that is how they
feel and that is okay.
Just going back to recognizingthat is how they feel and that
is okay.
Just going back to recognizingthat behaviors stem from
(54:42):
something deeper and we need tobe able to talk with them and
have that open dialogue aboutwhatever it is going on.
Looking at mitigating fears byplanning ahead.
You know, hey, if your concernis I can't go to the bathroom
during class, then let's seewhere we can fit those bathroom
(55:04):
breaks in for you and plan aheadin that way.
I think, as a parent, it'simportant to remember that we
are not a pain in the ass.
We are our kids' biggestadvocate.
And I say that because I wouldaddress a concern and I would
feel guilty, because I'mbothering them and I can't tell
(55:27):
you how many administrators havesaid look, you are their
advocate.
We might not like it all thetime, but you have to do your
job in this.
Evan (55:40):
And just as a caveat there , just to add, you often catch
more flies with honey than withvinegar.
Melissa (55:49):
Absolutely.
Evan (55:50):
So take this with your own grain of salt.
But whenever you're dealingwith these administrators and
these school officials and theseteachers, there's a couple of
things.
So one treat them with respectand you're going to get respect
back right.
Two recognize that in mostcases, I think everybody's on
the same side here.
Melissa (56:10):
Yes for the kids.
Evan (56:11):
There are rare cases where you have an administrator or a
teacher that only cares aboutthemselves and those one-off
cases you have to handle, or ateacher that only cares about
themselves, and those one-offcases you have to handle, those
one-off cases.
But most of the time, thoseteachers, those
paraprofessionals, thoseadministrators, they care about
your kids, they care about theirsuccess, they want to help them
(56:33):
, they want to make their ownjobs easier too.
Don't get me wrong.
Melissa (56:36):
But I think one of the biggest things, too, is come
with ideas.
Don't get me wrong, but I thinkone of the biggest things, too
is come with ideas.
Yeah, don't just come tocomplain.
Yeah, don't come because you'reupset with that teacher or
blaming a teacher for something.
Come with ideas and thoughts onhow do we make this better.
Evan (56:53):
How many times have we heard one story from our kids?
Oh gosh.
Only to go to the school andfind out oh wait, this was a
different story.
Melissa (57:02):
Absolutely, absolutely .
And then I think I want totouch briefly too on the kids
who are hesitant to go to school.
They don't want to.
Again, taking a deeper look atthat and where is that school
refusal coming from?
And also, again, justremembering, the school wants to
(57:23):
work with you.
They want your kid in school,even if that means and I know
there were times where I couldget a kid to the school building
but they sat in the nurse'soffice and did schoolwork all
day or sat in a conference roomor guidance but they were there.
And most of these schooldistricts have a vested interest
(57:47):
in working with you as theparent, helping work through
whatever issues are going onwith your child.
I think most often we find alot of supportive people.
Everybody has a bad day,absolutely, and we need those
(58:15):
extra accommodations and justthe extra support, not to help
our child avoid but to help thembuild that tolerance for
distress and to build theirability to persevere through
hard things and recognize anduse the support systems that
they have A lot of.
(58:36):
It comes back to communication,open communication and dialogue
.
Evan (58:40):
I know you've been a big proponent of finding activities
at the school that the studentsor our kids enjoy and will keep
them motivated, things like band, orchestra, drama, sports.
Melissa (58:57):
I'm also that parent that will listen when my kids
talk about school and I listennot for who they're complaining
about, but who is it thatthey're connecting with.
And I'm the parent that'll,behind the scenes, shoot that
teacher an email and say, hey,my kid really respects you, my
(59:18):
kid really feels supported byyou.
They're having a tough time.
Can you try to just connectwith them and see if maybe
there's something that maybe youcan be a better help than I can
?
Because, let's be honest, ourkids need other safe adults
because they don't always wantto come to their parent with
(59:38):
things.
So I encourage that.
Well, you know, I encourage mykids to be open and honest about
everything at school with theirteachers and staff.
We encourage that.
You know like I'm too set intherapy too.
If you need to complain aboutme, complain away.
If it helps you out.
Go for it.
Evan (59:56):
Absolutely Well.
Again, everybody, thanks fortuning in to this episode.
I want to remind you that youcan get us wherever you get your
podcasts.
You can check us out on social.
Melissa (01:00:11):
Just remember that if it feels uncomfortable, if it
feels unsafe, if it feelsawkward, the answer is no and as
parents, we need to address it.
Evan (01:00:21):
Absolutely.
We'll talk to you next time,everybody, bye.
And we're back for another fun discussion.
Remember to follow us on socialmedia that's Facebook,
instagram and Twitter, at theUnmentionables Podcast X, at
Unmentionables X, and thank youso much for your support and for
tuning in Melissa.
Melissa (00:15):
It's the most wonderful time of the year and
it's the scariest time of theyear, it's back to school time,
yay.
If you are anything like me,you are so excited to have the
(00:38):
kids back in routine andschedule, back to a breath of
fresh air and back to the stressof the schedule and the
routines and the school demandsand the sports.
Evan (01:02):
Yeah, there's a lot going on.
There always is whenever we goback to school.
There's a lot for parents,there's a lot for the kids.
There's just an awful lot thatall happens at once and I think
it creates a swirlingenvironment of fun and a
swirling environment of fear,chaos, lots of different things
(01:24):
going on.
Environment of fear, chaos,chaos, lots of different things
going on, and I think we'dreally like to navigate some of
these ups and downs, theanxieties and excitements of the
back-to-school time, theback-to-school ritual I say
because it's always sort ofsimilar every year.
Right, get me out to get clothes.
I need a new book bag, it'stime for new shoes, and let's
(01:45):
talk about the realities of that.
Talk about some of the thingsthat we experience.
Let's talk about some of thethings that we know other people
are experiencing and then maybecircle back to some practical
steps that we can take to ensuresuccess for us and for our kids
.
Sounds good.
So let's talk first aboutparents.
Right, as parents, we knowthere are an awful lot of good
(02:08):
things and an awful lot of scarythings that are going on at
this time of the year For me, Iknow I'm excited.
The grocery bills are goingdown Teen parents you know what
I'm talking about If you haveteenagers.
Melissa (02:22):
Well, the board eating right.
I'm hungry, and then, an hourlater, but I'm still hungry
again, going through eightloaves of bread in a week.
Evan (02:34):
Exactly, exactly.
How many different ways can Imake eggs in a day?
Melissa (02:39):
Right, which is awesome when you have your own
chickens.
Evan (02:43):
Well, not everybody, not everybody has our pros.
Houses stay cleaner becausethere's nobody there to mess
them up constantly and then notpick up after themselves.
Right, for those parents outthere that have young kids and
maybe they're single parents ormaybe both parents are working
and they're not at home daycareexpenses go down because you
(03:04):
don't have to pay for full daydaycare anymore.
You've got school that's takinga big brunt of that right.
So there's a lot of good,wonderful, amazing things that
parents we see and we getexcited about.
They're going to be at school.
They're going to be learning.
They're going to be doing newthings.
They're going to be hanging outwith their friends.
They're going to be learning.
(03:25):
They're going to be doing newthings.
They're going to be hanging outwith their friends.
Melissa (03:27):
They're going to get some of that energy out at
recess.
But to get there we have tosurvive.
We need to survive thebehaviors that come before they,
or two, of school, especiallywhen they get home after school
and they're exhausted becausethey've been doing more things.
(03:51):
And when they're exhaustedthey're cranky and they're
irritable and just navigating,getting up earlier again.
But this is often when we seean increase in siblings being
nasty to each other, thewhininess, the poking and the
(04:13):
prodding and the defiance.
We see a lot of those thingsright now.
Evan (04:20):
Yeah, so parents are dealing with that and I think a
lot of parents are probablygoing.
Why is this a problem everysingle year around this time?
I don't think for most parentsright out of the box anyway,
they really fully understand.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat generally causes that kind
of, those kinds of actions andresponses?
(04:41):
What are the kids feeling,that's really causing that and
how can parents recognize it?
Melissa (04:48):
So I think it's really important for us as parents to
know that every behavior has acause.
There's a reason underneath it,because we have good kids that
struggle, and it's not just astruggle when there's negative
stressors happening.
Exciting things are stress too,and our body's nervous system
(05:14):
responds to that in the fight orflight response.
So when we are extremelyexcited about a new teacher and
seeing our friends again, kidshave a hard time regulating.
They rely on us as parents tohelp them co-regulate.
(05:34):
So if we're going to do that,we need to stay calm in the face
of whatever they're bringing atus and instead of reacting to
the behavior on the surface,parents can take that step back
and say okay, my kid is under alevel of stress right now, even
(05:57):
over something exciting, andit's my job to step back and
help them navigate that.
Let's talk about feelings.
We grew up in a generationwhere feelings weren't okay.
We stuffed our feelings and ifwe had big feelings, feelings we
(06:31):
were sent away to our room orpunished for them.
And it's instinctual for us asparents to respond in that same
way, unless we recognize it anddo better.
Evan (06:38):
Yeah, absolutely no better , do better.
Melissa (06:40):
No better do better.
No better, do better yeah.
Evan (06:44):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit tooabout, as parents, some of the
fears that we have.
Right, because while there's alot of wonderful, there's a lot
of fears that we have that goalong with the kids going back
to school.
We talk about the safety of thechildren.
Yes, we are entrusting ourbabies, our children, to other
(07:07):
people who we have varyinglevels of understanding of.
Melissa (07:11):
Absolutely, and while there are a lot of people the
vast majority of people thatwork in schools and I
experienced this in our homedistrict they love our kids,
they truly care about thephysical and emotional
well-being of our kids.
(07:39):
Teacher who had sex with astudent or was accused of
touching a student, whether itwas proven or not, and I know,
for me as a parent, that givesme concern and reason to pause
(07:59):
and look at a district and whatthe district's priorities are.
Evan (08:06):
Yeah, yeah, and it's interesting you bring that up.
There's been so many things inthe news lately, like you said,
locally as well as nationallyjust recently, within the last
few months, about even yearsabout teachers and staff being
inappropriate with students indifferent ways or accused of
(08:29):
being inappropriate withstudents in different ways, and
you know there's multiple levelsof thought that go into this
right.
Whenever something like thishappens, it's big online.
It hits the social media pages,the Facebook groups, and you
start to see messages like thisteacher has been weird for 30
plus years, or you know even theflip side of that.
(08:51):
You know this accusation isjust an accusation.
Let's see how the facts play out, which I think is kind of more
of a reasonable take.
Okay, let's talk about what therealities are of this situation
, but then you've got the fullflip side of that, which is you
can't trust what these kids say.
They just don't like thisteacher because they failed them
(09:13):
or whatever it might be.
And I think there's so muchspeculation that goes on on
those online communities.
It can really difficult to sortout the facts and the truth and
, depending on how the districtshandle things and depending on
how the people respond tocertain things it can go
(09:36):
different ways.
You've got situations wheredistricts you know, you've had a
teacher who's had a history, along history, decades-long
history of accusations that whenthere's smoke there's generally
fire of some kind.
Melissa (09:52):
I was going to say, when there's that much smoke,
there's a fire, and those arethe most dangerous ones.
The most dangerous ones Becausewhen we look at the profile of
a predator, we look at somebodywhere they know the lines, they
know the legal definitions, theyknow how to skirt right up to
(10:17):
the edge of a boundary but notcross it.
So if someone does saysomething they know, nothing can
be proven and nothing that theydid actually crosses into the
line of getting them in trouble.
Evan (10:36):
Yeah.
Melissa (10:37):
That's scary.
Evan (10:38):
And you've got these teachers unions that are
protecting these, that areprotecting these, and I stop
short of saying that the unionsare actively protecting
predators, even though I feellike their actions on behalf of
their quote unquote members tendto protect the bad actors more
so than the good.
(11:00):
Teachers caught in a misfortuneand there have been that I mean
out of Forsyth County, NorthCarolina.
There is a teacher that has nowfiled a lawsuit against the
Forsyth County sheriff andseveral investigative officers
after allegations of a sex crimefrom a student were proven
incorrect and it seemed to, atleast to this former teacher and
(11:24):
his attorney, that theinvestigators just wanted to
find him guilty.
Right, Because a student saidit.
It must be a fact.
Not only was lying mentally ill, Wow, and had several instances
(11:48):
where they bragged abouthurting that teacher for a
variety of different reasons.
Melissa (11:55):
Right, and I think that's why you have to look at
every one of these cases througha separate lens, looking at the
fact that kids do have accessto more information through the
Internet and social media.
And I mean I can tell you,having been Child Protective
(12:19):
Services child abuseinvestigator, that we know when
kids have been coached, we knowwhen things don't add up, when
well-trained, I should say, uspolice can see through the smoke
and typically discern, whichagain, is very different than
(12:45):
something meeting the definitionof child abuse or meeting a
threshold to press criminalcharges.
Evan (12:53):
Sure, absolutely.
And again, to go back to sortof the handling of these
situations, right, a lot of thepublic sentiment is about how
the district handles thesethings when you have a situation
where you have someone who hasa long history of these kinds of
accusations and nothing hasever been done, the public
(13:14):
becomes skeptical of that schooldistrict and so whatever that
school district comes to as ananswer to whatever the most
recent complaint is, it's likelythat the public is going to
turn on that district andthere's going to be some kind of
a backlash right, because,again, like you said, where
there's smoke of that kind,there's generally fire.
Melissa (13:33):
Well, and think about all the options that a district
would have.
They can relocate a teacher,because I think we have to
recognize, especially withteachers' unions, that they
can't just fire someone overallegations.
And I will also say, within theprofile of one of these
predators they will want to stayand they will want to remain.
Evan (13:58):
Well, that's where their target rich environment is that
they've groomed right.
Melissa (14:01):
They'll remain in the same environment.
They won't want to move to adifferent school within the
district.
They won't want to move to adifferent position within the
district because if theallegations follow them, it
gives validity to it.
But these people recognize thatif they stay where they are.
(14:33):
Well, now they've been shown tobe innocent.
Well, now they've been shown tobe innocent.
People, even now more so won'twant to report because somebody
else reported.
And look what happened?
Nothing.
So what's the point?
Evan (14:52):
Right, agreed.
I mean that's been a societalquestion around sexual abuse.
For, going back as far as I canimagine, sure that it's been a
crime, right.
Melissa (15:07):
It's a crime that's so hard to prove, right?
Because it's less than 5% ofcases.
If there is any kind oftransfer of DNA or forensic
evidence, less than 5% of casesthat are seen within 24 hours
(15:28):
actually have forensic evidence.
So when you're talking aboutthings like groping, being up
close on somebody, you'retalking about things where there
isn't necessarily DNA transferor any kind of penetration
either.
What we're looking at is hesaid, she said.
Evan (15:49):
Yeah.
Melissa (15:50):
And our society and it's been shown over and over
again doesn't care to listen toour children.
Evan (15:57):
Yeah, no, I agree.
I mean again, you know, andthere's smoke and there's fire,
and there's times where it'strue and there's times where
it's not, and a lot of it goesback to how the district handles
the situation, how transparentthe situation is.
Again, I go back to the unionson this.
It makes it difficult when theunions want to keep everything
(16:19):
hush-hush hidden and force thedistricts into those kinds of
situations.
You know there was anotherstory out of Virginia this is
actually a Christian schoolwhere a teacher there was
accused of committing sex crimesand that school handled it
(16:40):
differently.
Melissa (16:42):
You know, I think this is actually amazing.
That was out of Virginia, right?
Yes?
And this school found out thata female teacher was having sex
with a male high school studentand they themselves reported it
(17:03):
to police within an hour,they're saying, of finding out.
And what's interesting to meabout this is a school
representative named Jones toldWSET-TV she said we chose
integrity instead of it beingswept under the rug.
(17:25):
She goes on to say scripture isvery clear that if it was done
in the dark it was going to bebrought to light.
And this I actually.
I get what's it called whenyour skin like Tingly, yeah,
tingly.
I get all tingly when I readthis, because this is what we
(17:45):
were talking about last weekaccountability, and this school
knew especially as a Christianschool, and I read a bunch of
the comments and it was, ofcourse, it happened in a
Christian school.
Other ones were you know whyare you proud of yourself for
reporting?
You have to report, and I thinkabout this and I go.
Well, how many districts don'treport their own teacher?
(18:09):
How many sweep it under the rugand the teacher goes and finds
another job?
How many times does this happenin public schools?
Why wouldn't it happen in aChristian school, and at least
this school and these people arestanding by what they believe.
They reported it, they'redealing with it and they knew.
(18:33):
They knew they'd be condemnedBacklash repercussions and they
said we're going to stand in thelight anyway, and we know this
is wrong.
We're going to actually dosomething light anyway, and we
know this is wrong.
We're going to actually dosomething about it.
That's a school that I wouldsend my kid to, because they
care more about my student'ssafety and well-being than their
(18:57):
own reputation, and I thinkthat we're seeing a great lack
of that in the public schoolsystem today.
Evan (19:06):
Yeah, yeah, it can be scary to send your kids into
those kinds of environments, andso we've talked a lot about
teachers and the safety aspectthere.
Let's switch gears a little bitto school violence.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthat because I know, especially
as the kids get older, it's not,I think, as bad for playtime
(19:26):
and, you know, maybe morefocused on their position within
(19:49):
their social ranks, it buildsanimosity and things like fights
and you know, weapons andschools and those kinds of
things come into play and I knowthat that is a fear that a lot
of parents have.
Melissa (20:05):
Sure, and I know we usually do see this more up at
the high school level,especially with fights breaking
out, that kind of stuff.
And I would just encourageparents that it comes back to
what you're teaching your kids,what you're modeling for your
kids.
Are you modeling conflictresolution?
(20:27):
Are you telling them you knowwell, if somebody hurts, you go,
punch them in the face?
Are you teaching them thatviolence is how you handle
things?
Or are we teaching our kids ifyou have an out, take the out,
Don't look for the fight.
And, quite honestly, these daysa lot of parents are bullies
(20:51):
and they're raising bullies andwe look at it wanting to change
the world, wanting to have akind place where we just accept
each other and we don't all haveto be the same, we don't have
to believe the same things.
We can have our own strengthsand weaknesses and allow other
(21:16):
people to be who they are andjust be nice.
What happened to kindness?
Evan (21:21):
Well, that's a great question and actually something
that I was thinking a little bitabout, and so I looked into
some of the statistics around.
You know violence, schoolviolence and victimization and
those kinds of things and,unsurprisingly to, I think, most
people you know, the heavierviolence trends in terms of you
(21:42):
know more school violence tendto be in populated areas, cities
, for example, city centers andall of those kinds of things
where you have a mass of people.
I think you have lots ofdifferent dynamics when it comes
to how people are raised inthose situations.
(22:04):
I mean, look just candidly andagain, that's what this show is
all about.
It sure is, the cities arerougher places.
The cities are places where Ithink people are tired of other
people being on top of them allthe time, where everybody has an
opinion.
Melissa (22:20):
It's a lower socioeconomic status.
You have parents workingoutside the home.
You have multi-generationalliving situations.
Evan (22:30):
Tons of single parent dynamics.
Melissa (22:32):
Tons.
Evan (22:33):
You've got Gang associations Higher rates of
drug activity.
Melissa (22:41):
You have all of these underlying issues that lead to
more conflict.
Evan (22:48):
Yeah, and that spills over into the schools and you have
those kinds of situations thathappen there.
And then as you get, what wasinteresting to me, if you look
at it, is as you spiral out froma city and you go into the
suburban areas, where again it'smore densely packed than your
rural communities.
But that socioeconomicsituation changes, right, you
(23:13):
have people who are making moremoney, right, you have people
who have a little bit more spacebetween them and their
neighbors and you generally sortof start to see that trend of
violence lessen.
The further and further you getout from the city you see that
trend lessen.
Now what I will say is that youfind in places where they've
(23:35):
done some integration soDelaware is an example.
I used to live to schools outthere as opposed to putting
schools or keeping schoolsinside the city.
Melissa (23:58):
Oh, interesting.
Evan (23:59):
We found that those suburban areas near Wilmington
where the students were gettingbused in from the city were
seeing more rates of violencethan schools that were further
out from the city and weregetting less of those students
bused out to them.
Melissa (24:16):
Well, it's a mentality , it's a lifestyle, it's a way
of conducting oneself.
That's learned behavior, it istruly survival at a young age,
and it's it's intergenerational,yeah.
Evan (24:38):
And then, as you get out into the urban or the rural
areas, away from the urbancenters and out to the rural
areas, you see a lot lessviolence and, believe it or not,
a lot less bullying.
Melissa (24:49):
Yes.
Evan (24:50):
I know a lot that may come as a surprise to a lot of
people, because they think thosehicks, those hillbillies, they
don't accept people that aredifferent from them.
And I think we live in a veryrural community.
We have a very rural schooldistrict.
I mean, this is the kind ofplace where we don't need to, we
(25:11):
don't need to outsource ouragricultural technology studies.
They could go across the street.
Melissa (25:15):
Oh honey, kids come to school riding on a tractor.
We've had cows in the highschool as senior pranks.
Evan (25:23):
Right.
So I mean, this is a ruralcommunity that we live in and,
you know, even in our own familywe have kids.
That are neurodivergent.
We have kids that color theirhair in wildly amazing ways.
That are cool and fun, sure,but you might think in a place
(25:44):
like this that they would getbullied or picked on, and you
just don't see it as much.
Sometimes you do, but it's notas much.
Melissa (25:53):
I think we have to rely on those around us more
down here because we are furtherapart.
Yeah, and my experience is thatit breeds a stronger community
of, if you need help withsomething, you ask around and
somebody has got extra ofsomething, or even if that's
(26:16):
extra time, that they're willingto come and lend a hand.
They're willing to lendresources.
They're willing to lend bothphysical resources and labor
resources.
It really is.
Now we also live among theAmish and even there you see
people helping people, caringabout people.
(26:39):
We walk into Tractor Supply andeverybody's talking to
everybody about everything.
Evan (26:45):
Absolutely.
It was one of the biggestchanges for me, coming from
Delaware, which is much morealigned with sort of the city
lifestyle of put your know, putyour head down and walk.
You know, live and let live.
I'm not going to you know,associate, not associate.
But I'm not going to go out ofmy way to have a conversation
with you because it's none of mybusiness.
(27:06):
Whatever you're doing here isnone of my business.
But in the rural communitiespeople, you're right, they do
care.
You can put a post on Facebookabout needing some stone and
within an hour you'll havesomebody that's like come book
about needing some stone andwithin an hour you'll have
somebody that's like come, getthe stone out of my backyard
because I need to get rid of itanyway, so I can plant there
Right.
Melissa (27:24):
You know, whatever it might be, and I think even like
when we speak about the teachersand the vast majority of the
staff at the district, you knowit's not every day that
principals are getting ducttaped to walls as a reward to
the students for whatever it was.
Evan (27:45):
Yes, this was deliberate.
This was not.
It wasn't done.
Melissa (27:49):
Or the principal who's chasing a goat down the road
and it makes its way ontoFacebook.
But even with that, you know,it's not every day that you have
a middle school principal and Ideeply respect this who in
morning announcement says hey,just in case you haven't heard
this yet today, just know,you're loved goes and still
(28:14):
plays four square with the kidsat recess because we still have
recess time in middle school andshoots that basketball and high
fives the kids and actually isgenuinely getting to know them.
Evan (28:29):
Absolutely Moral of that story is you can high five the
kids, but don't pat their butts.
Melissa (28:34):
Don't touch their butts.
And I, you know, I want topause on that too, because what
do we do as parents when our kidcomes home and says, hey, this
teacher put their hand on me,and I know, I try to avoid
conflict and try to get a feelfor it.
And where is that line?
(28:56):
And where is that line?
I'm a huge proponent of kidshaving a voice and using it
respectfully, recognizing thatkids have choices and that they
have autonomy over their body.
And I think there's a bigdifference between a female
student finding a female teacherand saying I'm having a really
(29:18):
rough day, can I have a hug?
It's also different inelementary school than it is in
middle school or high school.
Mm-hmm, I think under nocircumstances should a male be
putting a hand on a femalestudent, putting a hand on a
(29:41):
female student, nor should afemale teacher be putting a hand
on a male student.
Now, there's going to be a lotof other opinions on that.
I think it depends on therelationship that a teacher has
with a student.
Evan (29:50):
Yeah, I mean, we know principals and assistant
principals that will walk up andgive a side hug to a kid that
looks like they're struggling orwhatever Totally appropriate.
And I think those aresituations where, again, as
parents, we have to bediscerning, we have to
understand what we're dealingwith in the situations and we
(30:12):
have to trust our guts.
We know when something seemsoff and when something seems
innocuous.
Melissa (30:19):
But our kids do too.
And think about that for asecond, because if your kid
comes to you and says thisteacher's creepy and he cupped
my shoulder and rested hisforearm on my back and leaned on
me and I was reallyuncomfortable, that's vastly
(30:39):
different than hey.
I was real upset at schooltoday and I started to cry and I
went down to this teacher'sroom and asked for a hug and
that teacher gave me a hug andsat with me and we talked.
Those are two extremelydifferent scenarios.
Evan (30:57):
Wildly different.
We're talking about Wildlydifferent, absolutely,
absolutely, and then as parentsagain.
So there's the safety aspect,there's teachers, there's other
students, school violence.
There's also the mental safetyaspect.
When we talk about bullying,this is something that has
(31:19):
always existed.
I think to a certain extentright Again, we kind of
mentioned this earlier there'salways some level of social
dynamic where the kid that's alittle different-.
Melissa (31:28):
That's life, that's even as adults.
Evan (31:30):
The person that's a little bit different gets ostracized
to a certain degree, a certainlevel, and I'm not suggesting
that that's right, I'm notsuggesting that that is what we
aspire to as a people, but it isreality and I think it is
something that we have torecognize and understand exists
(31:51):
and I think that schools havepretty good job of looking at
the social, you know innerdynamics of the kids at all age
levels, especially early in life, and maybe that's part of the
trends that we're seeing wherebullying is kind of reducing.
Now, if you look at the trendsright now, if you were to go and
(32:14):
chat, gpt this or Google it,you're going to see that there's
a reduction, quote unquote, inthese bullying and victimization
statistics and it's going tolook fairly significant.
The problem that I have withthose studies at this point is
they're typically done over theCOVID period, where nobody was
(32:35):
in school, and so it's a littlebit of a.
I have a little bit of healthyskepticism on that.
I want to see what the latestnumbers are now that the kids
are generally, you know, back inphysical school.
But we do see a big reduction.
I think a lot of what we do asparents is think about things
(32:57):
the way they were when we wereyounger, sure, and apply that to
today without maybe reallyunderstanding, right, I think
maybe you can talk a little bitabout your perspective on this,
because I know that you arereally engaged with the kids,
with their teachers, and youkind of understand the realities
(33:18):
of today versus what weexperienced.
Melissa (33:21):
Sure, you know, even when we talk about bullying, I
think some of the bigger issuesright now really are in
elementary school and middleschool and it has to do with
child development andimpulsivity.
It has to do with insecurityKids who are insecure with
(33:41):
themselves we know trend towardbullying.
And also kids who are insecuretend to look at groups of people
who may not be bullying butjust be afraid to enter that
group because it's intimidating.
(34:01):
And I think that working withthese kids, encouraging them to
just try to be friends witheverybody and if there's
somebody you don't get alongwith, you can just choose to not
spend time with them.
That's okay, go find adifferent friend.
(34:22):
But a lot of this stuff thatwe're seeing really is it's
developmental.
We're seeing a lot of socialdelays still from COVID.
The younger kids, well, let'ssee going into even kids going
into fourth grade right nowwe're not in the public school
setting yet when COVID happenedand we're seeing fears of social
(34:47):
environments, fears of theworld.
All of that comes from whatthey were born into and what
they lived through in their veryearly years.
And for people who chose tomask, they didn't learn how to
read social expression, theydidn't learn those basic cues
(35:07):
and I think after we stoppedmasking, I don't think anybody
really thought about wow, thesekids are going to be really
delayed in that.
Evan (35:15):
Wow, these kids are going to be really delayed in that.
That's a really reallyimportant point that I think has
gone underrepresented in thediscussions, you know, during
COVID and since COVID, in termsof the ability for our kids, you
(35:39):
know, to really progresssocially.
That, you know, just being awayfrom everybody and online on a
computer is one thing, right,there's still video, there's
still the ability to sort of seefaces and stuff like that.
It's maybe more limited and theinteractions in person versus,
you know, on a computer, alwaysdifferent, right.
But I also think, a%, when kidsare young and they're
developing and they're learningsocial cues and all of those
(36:03):
things, it's really anunderrated importance to be able
to see facial expressions andfull body language and all of
those things that these kidswere deprived of during their
formative school yearskindergarten through second,
third grade while we were inthat COVID situation.
(36:24):
And I think it's a great pointto call out that maybe as
parents we need to be a lot moreunderstanding about our young
kids and where they aredevelopmentally.
Melissa (36:36):
Well, and we need to get them off devices and back to
team sports, back to outsideinteraction and activities and
actually interacting in socialenvironments.
Evan (36:49):
Yeah, yeah.
And as parents, another thingthat we're concerned about, or
scary for us, is academicsuccess.
How can I prepare the kids forsuccess academically?
How can we get them to a placewhere they are ready for the
year?
Can you just talk a little bitabout?
(37:09):
With all of the anxieties andall of the things that the kids
are going through right now andall that they're feeling, how do
we prepare them mentally forwhat's coming?
Melissa (37:22):
I was going to say.
I don't know if anybody isgoing to like my response to
that, because I don't agree withteaching to tests.
I think that we've done ourkids a really huge disservice
and I'm not worried about my kidbeing ready for the year.
I know as a kid and I'm theyoungest of three and I always
(37:47):
say I was the dumb one in thefamily, right, and the reality
of that is that it's true in avery real sense, because out of
the three of us I had the lowestIQ, still smart, but compared
to them I wasn't, and what cameeasily to them didn't come
(38:07):
easily to me.
I had to figure out how to workfor things, and so I remember
going into every single schoolyear truly and honestly
believing I was going to fail.
I'm not going to know thisstuff, I'm not going to be able
to learn it, it's going to betoo hard.
(38:28):
And I remember my mom saying tome before every school year
Melissa, just remember, theystart with a review, they start
with the stuff you alreadylearned.
I see that now as an adultlooking back, but our kids don't
see that, and especially whenour kids have areas of weakness,
(38:50):
which they all do, it's fearsof?
Will I fail?
Will I be able to keep up of?
Will I fail?
Will I be able to keep up?
If they've had a hard time inclasses before?
If they've had a hard timekeeping up with classes, this is
where, as parents, you're theirbest advocate.
(39:13):
If they're struggling, let's notsettle for the school, saying
they just need to work harder.
Let's go in.
Let's look at things like 504plans.
Let's look at IEPs.
Let's look at are we demandingtoo much of our children?
You know I'm a parent thatdoesn't believe in homework.
I don't take my work home withme at the end of my workday.
M2 (39:32):
Right.
Melissa (39:33):
And if we're going to say that school is their work A,
they don't get paid for it.
But they sure as heck don't getpaid to bring it home.
Yeah, home, that's my time withmy kid.
Yeah, don't you dare invade onmy time.
Evan (39:48):
Yeah, parents, I think if you're listening to this and
you're a parent, understand thatyou have parental rights,
understand that these are yourchildren, and just because you
send them to a school to learnthings doesn't mean you just
have to accept what the schoolsuggests.
Melissa (40:06):
Absolutely.
Evan (40:07):
Right.
There are avenues for studentswho need more help.
There are 504 plans.
There are IEPs.
There are just discussions withgood teachers to say here's how
Johnny learns, Right?
A lot of teachers are willing.
Most teachers are willing to,because they want the kids to be
(40:28):
successful, right?
Even if they are bound to atest for their performance,
right?
If little Johnny learns betterin this way, then little
Johnny's gonna do better on thetest when it comes to it.
Melissa (40:42):
Somebody can read the test to little Johnny Right.
And for the parents who alreadyhave 504s and IEPs, my favorite
thing is when I get contactedby a teacher to say my kid isn't
doing this, that or the otherthing and I say well, have you
followed the guidelines in theirIEP?
Evan (41:03):
Yeah, Sometimes you have to remind them that that thing
exists and they have to do thosethings.
They give me a blank look,because what they're tattling on
my kid for is already describedin the IEP as an accommodation
Right right and also I thinkit's valuable for parents to
recognize that you have a rightand your kids have a right to a
(41:27):
certain extent.
Sure, do To ask for changes tothat.
504 or that.
Iep throughout the year, asthings come up.
You don't necessarily have towait until the IEP meeting.
Melissa (41:42):
You don't have to.
You can call a meeting anytimethere's a problem, and they are
required to convene the wholegroup unless they're willing to
modify it right then.
So if they're willing to modifyand move forward with the
change, a meeting doesn't haveto happen.
But if they argue it well,we'll convene a whole meeting
(42:05):
and that's everybody's time.
Let's bring everybody togetherand have a conversation.
Oftentimes the district alreadyknows that what they're doing
isn't correct and you know, alot of parents just aren't
educated in this.
I mean, I can tell you my kidsall have a copy of their IEP or
(42:26):
504 in their possession.
Yeah, so you know if it's partof that 504, that a teacher
needs to give them advancedwarning for the section that
they're going to need to read tothe class so they can pre-read
it.
And then the teacher randomlycalls on them.
My kid can say, hey, you didn'tlet me know in advance, so I'm
(42:50):
going to pass.
And they have that documentright there.
Evan (42:54):
Yeah, yeah.
And these are tools that youhave for your kids for a reason.
These are tools your kids havefor a reason.
You're allowed and you'reencouraged to use them.
So, as parents, we need to bemore empowered.
Melissa (43:06):
And empower our kids and empower our kids, absolutely
Our kids are allowed to have avoice, they are allowed to speak
up and that's it.
If your kid is coming home andsaying this happened, find out
more.
If your kid comes home and saysthis made me uncomfortable, ask
and find out more.
(43:27):
Let's stop sweeping stuff underthe rug.
Evan (43:31):
Absolutely.
Melissa (43:32):
And let's stand in the light and have conversations,
let's have open dialogue.
Evan (43:37):
Absolutely, and have conversations.
Let's have open dialogue,absolutely.
Speaking of conversations andopen dialogue, I know that we
have a special guest with us.
Melissa (43:44):
We do.
M2 is one of the clinicianshere at the practice and I
thought that she just might havesome really awesome input on
this.
Evan (43:53):
Yeah, m2 is also a Melissa , and so because we have two
Melissa's, the owner gets topbilling.
She's M1.
Melissa (44:02):
Well, did you ever hear where that came from?
Evan (44:04):
No.
Melissa (44:05):
We do a theme for Halloween.
Every year, our whole buildinggets together and we have a big
Halloween party and we always doa theme as an office.
And so we were Dr Seuss the oneyear and instead of being Thing
1 and Thing 2, we were M1 andM2.
Evan (44:22):
Oh, that's great.
So we're going to bring M2 intothe conversation.
Melissa (44:27):
So, melissa, we were just having this conversation
out in the lobby and talkingabout different school stressors
and how we're navigating thatfor our kids and stuff, and I
thought it was really cool whenyou were telling me about some
of the things that you'vealready done and we're doing.
So my hope was that you couldjust share with people what are
(44:50):
some of the stressors andanxieties that you've had as a
parent.
M2 (44:54):
Yeah, so yeah, just to even like paint the picture like both
my kids are the one my daughteris entering seventh grade, my
son is entering fifth grade, soalso his last year of elementary
school.
So that's like playing into it,definitely, like they're both
neurodivergent.
My daughter daughter has had todeal with a lot of kind of like
(45:15):
bullying last year so that wasplaying into some of the
anxieties, like for me wantingto protect her going into the
school year.
And then I think for my sonhe's kind of been able to scoot
past.
He's very charismatic, so he'sbeen able to scoot past some of
the like sure, the bullying, butthere's still that fear like
he's entering fifth grade kidsare going to start to notice
(45:37):
he's a little bit different.
But yeah, so I don't know.
I think leading up to it wewere having a lot of talks about
like things that they'relooking forward to and so they
were starting school this pastweek, yeah, so the day before I
took the day off we went likedowntown Lancaster doing some
(46:01):
shopping.
We went to pottery work so thatwe could like calm ourselves
down, like so then we weren'tthinking constantly about the
looming like dread of school thenext day, and then we talked
about like the things, likeparticularly for them, what like
their fears were, and then alsolike their like intention for
the year, or like their goal, orif they could like sum up the
(46:25):
year like what they want tofocus on in one word and more
from like the focus of like youknow them as people, because I
feel like for them particularly,I'm like you know what I think.
Academics we're fine, sure,like we're going to get you're
also like seventh grade andelementary school, but like more
just their own like personaldevelopment.
Melissa (46:47):
Yeah, Can you share a little bit about, maybe, what
they came up with?
M2 (46:50):
Yeah, so they were focusing on, I think, for my daughter
like a lot just like working onbeing like boldly herself, and I
think she even like her wordwas kind of like courage.
But so my son, like, wasthinking about like
self-confidence for her andfound they both like picked out
(47:11):
like a stone, that kind of likesymbolized like what they were
focusing on.
So the one that like was for mydaughter was like
self-confidence, my son terrible, but I don't remember what this
was.
Um, but yeah, and then theyeach picked like a little, a
little token that had like ananimal on it that like would you
(47:34):
know kind of be like theirthing to to calm them and then
put them in like a little likesatchel and then we tucked them
in their backpack.
So then there was like a focusof like.
Okay, this is what we're doingfor the year, this is what's
going to carry us through.
I love that yeah, yeah.
Can you tell me about the sageyeah, so then I got like burnt
(47:55):
some sage and was like I had awood on the backpack and just
kind of like moved around themand of course, for them they
were like you know what, mom?
Okay, whatever, this is whatwe're doing.
But I think like we've worked alot on just like being able to
express, like you know, for me Iknow that I was really anxious
and for them to be able to saylike this, like, like I don't,
(48:18):
like you're feeling anxious, I'mfeeling a little bit anxious,
but like you can keep youranxiety on your side.
Evan (48:25):
Don't add to it.
Yes.
I'll be at birth and stage, andthen we're just going to like
If this helps you, we'll do it.
M2 (48:31):
So the answer's for you yeah , well, I think for both because
it was like yeah, and I thinkfor both it was like yeah, and I
think for them it was just moreof like that intentional, like
oh, we're taking time, we'reacknowledging like we're feeling
anxious and that we can bringthat anxiety too, like they can
come and talk to me.
Melissa (48:48):
You validated it.
Yeah, you said this makes sense.
Let's feel it and I'm going tosit here with you, which is
beautiful, yeah.
Do you have any other thoughtsor suggestions on?
You know, other than just beingintentional, about recognizing
(49:10):
it and talking through it, andeven the act of pottery and how
that uses our hands and it's,it's calming in that way?
Do you have any other tips orthoughts about how other parents
might be able to recognizeanxiety in themselves or their
kids?
Self-care, what to do with itright.
M2 (49:32):
Well, I think, like one other thing that I was thinking
with, like the, that, like formy daughter, I, I wrote out her
schedule in a way that she,because the schedule, they gave
her was overwhelming withinformation and she had said I
can't, it doesn't make sense.
So then we talked about okay,what do you actually need, and
separate it out in a way thatmade sense for her.
(49:54):
So that was super helpful.
But yeah, I think like theother thing is just kind of like
like first ask them like howare you about school before like
me just throwing on like thisfeels really anxious.
Evan (50:09):
Yeah, I struggle with that so much because, like when I
was in school, I had a difficulttime Like my last name.
I get picked on all the timeLike right it was, it was, it's
wild.
You know the name quite shy.
I learned what a queef was whenI was eight.
So it was, it was kind of wild.
(50:33):
But I project that at timesonto the kids and I sort of
catch myself.
But I'm sure there are otherparents out there that are doing
that.
So I think that's great to sortof take a step back and ask
them first, like okay, what areyour concerns?
If any?
What are you thinking about?
(50:54):
Are you anxious, are youexcited, or both?
Or both, you know, because youcan have two sides of that coin,
sure.
Melissa (51:02):
They can exist at the same time.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
M2 (51:06):
And I think, even like I don't know, I know like a big
thing, just even the past yearthat's been helpful is like
telling, like particularly formy daughter, telling her like
when she goes to see her owntherapist, I will say, like you
know, I've said tons of timeslike you can drag me through the
dirt if that's going to helpyou to work through your stuff.
Like, because I think she wasvery, you know, like protective
(51:28):
of, like not wanting to saythings bad about us, about like
her friends, like, and so, yeah,like realizing that you can
like have this thing that youdon't like and also really care
about the person is a bigmessage that we've been trying
to work on and so, even withschool, that, like you know, you
can have those differentfeelings and that she can like.
(51:49):
She'll tell me tons of timeslike Mom, I hear like you're,
you're feeling anxious, you keepyour anxiety on that side of
the car, or whatever.
She is the daughter of atherapist.
Yeah, I think, just likeletting them know.
Yeah, they can feel like I canfeel like Looting over.
Yeah, and.
I think also like recognize thatlike I needed that day and to
(52:13):
just like do something, not justlike focus on you know.
Of course in my head I wouldorganize, like their rooms.
We should get all these thingsset up.
I think we need to not bethinking about you know.
Think about like, okay, how areyou going to feel?
Melissa (52:27):
Organize their brains yeah, yeah and get them and
their nervous system yes.
Evan (52:33):
Give them a minute to rest and sort of prepare, right yeah
.
Melissa (52:39):
Thanks for coming in.
Yeah, absolutely Thanks forsharing with us.
Thank you, we'll see you again.
Thank you.
Evan (52:46):
Well, that was such a fascinating discussion.
I think we've learned a lottoday about sort of where we are
as parents, where our kids arewith the back-to-school time
period, parents, where our kidsare with the back to school time
period.
We learned a lot about, youknow, how we can recognize
(53:08):
what's going on both with us andwith our kids.
The discussion with M2 isfascinating around sort of how
she handles the situation andwhat she was feeling and, I
think, poignant discussions withher kids telling her to keep
her anxieties to herself.
I think that's something that weas parents tend to do.
We tend to over-empathize,maybe with our kids and drop
(53:30):
some of our anxieties in theirlap.
These kids should be allowed tohave their feelings and share
those feelings.
We want to encourage them tothink about the positives right,
reconnecting with friends andseeing their teachers that they
form bonds with and all the coolactivities that they're going
to face, and while recognizingthat they have anxieties like
(53:55):
will I fit in?
This school is so big, and whatif I get lost?
What if I don't do wellacademically?
And we've talked aboutrecognizing those things and how
those fears are real.
And maybe, melissa, you canrecap how do we as parents, work
with our kids and allay our ownfears as well as theirs.
Melissa (54:19):
Sure, I think you really hit the nail on the head.
We want to validate.
We want to validate that thesekids have feelings and that
those feelings are very real tothem.
It doesn't mean we have toagree, it doesn't mean we have
to have the same feelings, butrecognizing that is how they
feel and that is okay.
Just going back to recognizingthat is how they feel and that
is okay.
Just going back to recognizingthat behaviors stem from
(54:42):
something deeper and we need tobe able to talk with them and
have that open dialogue aboutwhatever it is going on.
Looking at mitigating fears byplanning ahead.
You know, hey, if your concernis I can't go to the bathroom
during class, then let's seewhere we can fit those bathroom
(55:04):
breaks in for you and plan aheadin that way.
I think, as a parent, it'simportant to remember that we
are not a pain in the ass.
We are our kids' biggestadvocate.
And I say that because I wouldaddress a concern and I would
feel guilty, because I'mbothering them and I can't tell
(55:27):
you how many administrators havesaid look, you are their
advocate.
We might not like it all thetime, but you have to do your
job in this.
Evan (55:40):
And just as a caveat there , just to add, you often catch
more flies with honey than withvinegar.
Melissa (55:49):
Absolutely.
Evan (55:50):
So take this with your own grain of salt.
But whenever you're dealingwith these administrators and
these school officials and theseteachers, there's a couple of
things.
So one treat them with respectand you're going to get respect
back right.
Two recognize that in mostcases, I think everybody's on
the same side here.
Melissa (56:10):
Yes for the kids.
Evan (56:11):
There are rare cases where you have an administrator or a
teacher that only cares aboutthemselves and those one-off
cases you have to handle, or ateacher that only cares about
themselves, and those one-offcases you have to handle, those
one-off cases.
But most of the time, thoseteachers, those
paraprofessionals, thoseadministrators, they care about
your kids, they care about theirsuccess, they want to help them
(56:33):
, they want to make their ownjobs easier too.
Don't get me wrong.
Melissa (56:36):
But I think one of the biggest things, too, is come
with ideas.
Don't get me wrong, but I thinkone of the biggest things, too
is come with ideas.
Yeah, don't just come tocomplain.
Yeah, don't come because you'reupset with that teacher or
blaming a teacher for something.
Come with ideas and thoughts onhow do we make this better.
Evan (56:53):
How many times have we heard one story from our kids?
Oh gosh.
Only to go to the school andfind out oh wait, this was a
different story.
Melissa (57:02):
Absolutely, absolutely .
And then I think I want totouch briefly too on the kids
who are hesitant to go to school.
They don't want to.
Again, taking a deeper look atthat and where is that school
refusal coming from?
And also, again, justremembering, the school wants to
(57:23):
work with you.
They want your kid in school,even if that means and I know
there were times where I couldget a kid to the school building
but they sat in the nurse'soffice and did schoolwork all
day or sat in a conference roomor guidance but they were there.
And most of these schooldistricts have a vested interest
(57:47):
in working with you as theparent, helping work through
whatever issues are going onwith your child.
I think most often we find alot of supportive people.
Everybody has a bad day,absolutely, and we need those
(58:15):
extra accommodations and justthe extra support, not to help
our child avoid but to help thembuild that tolerance for
distress and to build theirability to persevere through
hard things and recognize anduse the support systems that
they have A lot of.
(58:36):
It comes back to communication,open communication and dialogue
.
Evan (58:40):
I know you've been a big proponent of finding activities
at the school that the studentsor our kids enjoy and will keep
them motivated, things like band, orchestra, drama, sports.
Melissa (58:57):
I'm also that parent that will listen when my kids
talk about school and I listennot for who they're complaining
about, but who is it thatthey're connecting with.
And I'm the parent that'll,behind the scenes, shoot that
teacher an email and say, hey,my kid really respects you, my
(59:18):
kid really feels supported byyou.
They're having a tough time.
Can you try to just connectwith them and see if maybe
there's something that maybe youcan be a better help than I can
?
Because, let's be honest, ourkids need other safe adults
because they don't always wantto come to their parent with
(59:38):
things.
So I encourage that.
Well, you know, I encourage mykids to be open and honest about
everything at school with theirteachers and staff.
We encourage that.
You know like I'm too set intherapy too.
If you need to complain aboutme, complain away.
If it helps you out.
Go for it.
Evan (59:56):
Absolutely Well.
Again, everybody, thanks fortuning in to this episode.
I want to remind you that youcan get us wherever you get your
podcasts.
You can check us out on social.
Melissa (01:00:11):
Just remember that if it feels uncomfortable, if it
feels unsafe, if it feelsawkward, the answer is no and as
parents, we need to address it.
Evan (01:00:21):
Absolutely.
We'll talk to you next time,everybody, bye.
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