Trance Formations: The Art of Hypnotherapy

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What if you could reprogram your subconscious to alleviate anxiety and achieve your personal goals? Join us on "The Unscripted Mind" as Phyllis McComb, a licensed professional counselor and certified trauma-informed care practitioner, shares her transformative journey into hypnotherapy. Initially seeking relief from pandemic-induced anxiety, Phyllis's profound experience with hypnotherapy led her to become certified and integrate it into her practice alongside EMDR and talk therapy, proving its efficacy as a relaxing and powerful tool for mental health.

We'll debunk common misconceptions about hypnotherapy, explaining how it differs from stage hypnosis and highlighting its therapeutic benefits. By guiding individuals into a theta brainwave state, hypnotherapy facilitates the reprogramming of negative cognitions. We'll compare it to EMDR, meditation, and mindfulness, showing how these methods can help reframe negative self-talk and address deep-seated trauma. Phyllis emphasizes the importance of addressing subconscious beliefs formed by past experiences, revealing how hypnotherapy can transform these beliefs for better emotional well-being.

Additionally, we explore the impact of technology on mental health, the necessity of setting boundaries, and the connection between physical and emotional health. Phyllis offers insights on managing anxiety, the benefits of self-hypnosis, and the importance of personalized therapy. We also touch on the significance of flow states and how practices like meditation, hypnosis, and yoga can help achieve this mental balance. Tune in to learn how to harness these tools for a healthier mind and body, and discover the interconnected benefits of improving one aspect of life to positively impact others.

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The goal of The UnScripted Mind Podcast is to give you fresh perspectives, practical insights and tools you can use to give you more choices, self-awareness and control of your feelings, reactions and behaviors.

Episode Transcript

Jim Cunningham (00:01):
I think when most of us think about going and
getting mental healthassistance for anxiety or
depression, we think about howmuch work it's going to be.
But what if there was adifferent way of approaching
this?
What if there was a modalitywhere you could go?
You could lay back in arecliner, close your eyes, relax
and let the therapist do mostof the work.

(00:21):
That's our topic today on theUnscripted Mind.
Welcome to the Unscripted Mind.
My name is Jim Cunningham andI'm a licensed professional
counselor, and our goal here isto give you fresh perspectives,
practical insights and tools youcan use to give you more

(00:44):
choices, increase your awarenessand have better control of your
feelings, reactions andbehaviors.
You know, when people think oftherapy and psychotherapy, a lot
of times the things that cometo mind are the common types of
therapy you hear most Cognitivebehavior therapy, cbt, dialectic
behavior therapy, emdr, eyemovement, desensitization and

(01:05):
reprocessing therapy,solution-focused therapy and
others.
But today we're going to focuson something different,
something that treats clients ina very different way, that
requires something verydifferent from the client.
What if you could reprogramyour mind to achieve your goals,
to overcome fears, to breakfree from limiting beliefs, and

(01:27):
do it while you're relaxed,imagine unlocking the power of
your subconscious to createlasting change.
Our topic today is hypnotherapy,and our host is a friend of
mine, a colleague, phyllisMcComb.
She's going to guide us throughthe myths and realities of
hypnotherapy.
She's a licensed professionalcounselor with extensive
experience in both school andprivate practice settings.

(01:50):
She is a certifiedtrauma-informed care
practitioner and holds trainingswith EMDR, eft, which stands
for emotional freedom techniqueand hypnotherapy.
She's also pursuing herdoctoral degree in psychology.
So stick around.
We're going to delve into howpsychotherapy can be a powerful
tool for personal transformationand how you can harness this

(02:12):
tool to refine your path tosuccess.
All on this episode of theunscripted mind all right are
you excited?

Phyllis MComb (02:19):
yeah, good to be here, thank you for taking this
a lot of time yeah, to take outyou're welcome.

Jim Cunningham (02:24):
I mostly want to focus on you doing hypnotherapy
.
Okay, you didn't start there.

Phyllis MComb (02:29):
No.

Jim Cunningham (02:29):
How'd you get into that?

Phyllis MComb (02:31):
Um, kind of a roundabout way, but generally I
sought it out for myself and Ihad really great experience for
myself with that and I thought,you know, I should get trained
in this.
And then the pandemic hit and Ineeded something to do because
we were all stuck at home and Ihad time to study and really put
in the hours.
So it was over the pandemicthat I learned and went to get

(02:52):
the certification for it.

Jim Cunningham (02:54):
So yeah, I did it because I liked it.
Yeah, what was it that ithelped you with?

Phyllis MComb (02:59):
I went for anxiety Originally.
I had a lot of my plate, threekids, I was in school, trying to
work, and I think I haveprobably inherited anxiety and
so I just wanted to calm some ofthat down and some of the
behaviors that were coming upwith that.
And it did help with that and soand it was pretty brief, I want
to say I did maybe like 10sessions and felt relief with

(03:22):
that.
So in the counseling worldthat's kind of a big deal If you
can, if you can have bigresults quickly.
Um, and I felt the same aboutEMDR.
Emdr was pretty quick.
You could see relief andbenefit.
So I just felt like you know,this would be a good thing to
offer in conjunction with EMDRand then like, um, just typical
talk therapy.

Jim Cunningham (03:43):
Yeah, yeah.
So I think I think that it'swhen you think of hypnotherapy
right, you've gone through itand when people don't use the
when, when people there's nobodyusing like the trigger word
that causes you to remove yourshoes or something right, no,
that's stage hypnosis, and thatis what I almost wish it wasn't
called hypnosis, to be honest,because I feel like people

(04:03):
automatically go there and I'vehad so many people say well, are
you going to make me like bark,like a dog?

Phyllis MComb (04:08):
Am I going to give you all my money, my
inheritance, am I going to signthat to you?
I'm like, no, you're not goingto do that.
So it's.
It's really so.
What we're looking at.
There's different brain wavesand brain states that we're in.
So gamma and beta waves are thewaves that we're in right now.
You're getting things done,your executive functioning is
high.
It's the kind of what we arenormally in in our day to day.

(04:29):
And then you go to alpha wavesand then theta waves, and theta
brain waves is where EMDR reallycan work well if you get there,
but also hypnotherapy.
So the theta waves is, I tellpeople it's like a twilight
state, so you're not asleep butyou're not really awake.
It's kind of like if you'relaying on the couch dozing off

(04:49):
with a TV show and someone saysyour name and you can come to.
So we're just.
It's really just a method ofrelaxing to that theta brainwave
.

Jim Cunningham (04:58):
Okay, yeah, so I guess walk me through.
When somebody comes in to do asession, what does that look
like?
What are the steps?
Because I, you know it's.
It sounds um for lack of abetter word kind of woo, woo to
some people.

Phyllis MComb (05:11):
Well, and it's it's cousins are meditation,
mindfulness, which we know arehaving a big movement right now.
A lot of people doing that.
Those also will get you to thatsame um theta brainwave.
Parts ofs of yoga will do thattoo.
So it's woo-woo in the sensethat it's not traditionally done
in therapy but it's been aroundfor centuries and has been

(05:33):
practiced.
So if someone comes in, itlooks like a typical therapy
session we're going to gothrough.
What's the presenting issue?
How is it showing up for you?
Like your depression, anxiety?
Is it interfering withrelationships or?
Um, you know your work and whatwe're looking for are it's the
same with EMDR.
Is those talk targeting, likenegative cognitions?

(05:54):
So as people are talking, I'mI'm trying to hear things like
um, it's always my fault, or I'ma terrible mother, or or just
kind of those statements thatare underneath in their
vernacular of how they woulddefine themselves.
And so when we do hypnotherapy,we get to that really relaxed
theta brainwave state and thenwe just reprogram.

(06:16):
Might not be the best wordeither, but we just install or
speak differently to ourself and, over doing that time and time
again, we can reprogram or startspeaking to ourself in a
different way, things like.
I'm always trying my best.
I am smart Gosh darn it.

(06:37):
People like me, you know we getthose sort of things, but our
subconscious mind is really whatruns us, and so what we see and
how we talk to people.
If there's an iceberg, what'sabove the water?
What we can see isn't reallywhat is running our behavior and
our motions, it's these thoughtprocesses, and so it goes to

(06:57):
that and you listen to it.
It's really easy, it'scomforting.
I record it and so when peoplego home they listen to it over
and over and over, and it'srepetitive in nature, so that it
stays with us.

Jim Cunningham (07:11):
Okay, so the way you're saying this, right.
Well, the way you describe it,it sounds like the movie
inception.

Phyllis MComb (07:17):
And I've seen that, but it's in and out.
Remind me, how is it like Well?

Jim Cunningham (07:21):
the idea is that they go plant ideas in people's
subconscious when they'resleeping through their dreams.

Phyllis MComb (07:26):
Okay, yeah, it's like, and so they.

Jim Cunningham (07:28):
You know the idea is the power of, of
implanting an idea Okay, youknow, and how that just kind of
it's like a seed and it justtakes root.

Phyllis MComb (07:38):
Yes, yeah, I would well.
And what can change that for us?
What can change that kind ofself-talk?
Really two ways.
So we can have a big traumaticevent.
Let's say somebody has beendriving their whole life and
they have a terrible caraccident, in that split second
all of a sudden their body toprobably to protect themselves
so they don't drive again.
Because the body doesn't knowthat driving we need to do, it

(08:00):
just thinks don't ever do thatagain.
So they might in that splitsecond have things like oh my
gosh, I'm really not safe, I'mnot a good driver, I can't drive
at night anymore.
I'm not only not safe for me,but my kids were at risk, you
know.
And in that split second thenthey've just kind of
reprogrammed how they thinkabout driving.
Or it can be messages that weget over and over and over for

(08:22):
longterm.
So if you think of bullying inschools, how pervasive that can
be in really harming someone tohear you're ugly, you're stupid,
whatever they're told over andover and over their whole life,
particularly if it comes fromsomeone in their family, a
parent or a guardian, that'svery damaging and then it just

(08:43):
has programmed that for them.
Oh, I can't do school, I can'tgo to college.
I'm dumb.
I didn't make good grades.

Jim Cunningham (08:48):
Yeah, very similar to the negative
cognitions in EMDR.

Phyllis MComb (08:52):
Yes, yep.
And so yeah, and it's very,they're very similar and I work
with I actually sometimes we'lldo both kind of Franken session,
we'll do EMDR and then thepositive installation part of
EMDR we might move into kind ofhypnotic suggestion and so so
yeah, the word hypnosis, I don'tknow, I think it's triggering
to people.
It does sound really woo woo.

(09:13):
People are afraid that they'renot going to be in control of
themselves.
But you are in control.
No one can make you dosomething that you don't want to
do, and really all we're askingyou to do is to see things
differently.
So I don't have people walk oreven really talk there.
There can be a little bit ofthat in hypnosis, but for the

(09:33):
most part I'm gathering whatthose negative cognitions are,
and then I'll ask someone whatwould you like to believe
instead, what would you like tofeel instead?
And then put together scriptsand things that we do for
hypnosis.
Scripts are really interesting.
So I'm not outright.
Sometimes I'm outright sayingthings like and because you love
yourself, you can trustyourself to make this decision.

(09:55):
It'll be that straightforward.
But there's a lot of use ofmetaphor.
There are things to likeconfuse the mind so that it'll
relax further.
Um, so there's techniques in ittoo.
So if you, if you hear ahypnotic script, they might
start talking about airplanes ora farmer planting crops.
You know when you think whatdoes this have to do with
anxiety?
But it does.

(10:16):
It's like when we watch a movie, even though the movie isn't
about us and it could be abouttrack, stars or space, you know
any of those things.
There's an element of us thatrelates to that and applies it
to our life, and so thesehypnosis scripts will do that.

Jim Cunningham (10:31):
So yeah, it's really cool.

Phyllis MComb (10:33):
I love it, it's really cool.

Jim Cunningham (10:35):
So when somebody comes in, I mean to just say
even to do EMDR, it usuallytakes a couple of sessions to
build some trust so that theycan allow themselves to be kind
of at least vulnerable withthemselves.
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm assuming, when somebodycomes for hypnotherapy you can't
just Go right in?

Phyllis MComb (10:51):
Yeah, we have at least one session where we're
just going to talk.
But I have people who and itreally depends on the person,
probably where are they at?
You know, I don't typicallyjump right into those techniques
.
If someone's in active crisis,there's an element of we have to
settle someone down.
I see therapy and interventions, like you know, someone coming

(11:13):
in in crisis, we're juststabilizing someone.
And then there's that middlepart of therapy where we're
going to really deeply processwhat happens, and that's EMDR
and hypnotherapy.
The third part of therapy forme is like okay, what did I
learn?
What did I learn about myself?
How did it affect me and how amI going to apply things
differently?
How will this experience changeme?

(11:33):
And that's kind of like thatthird phase.
So if someone comes in andthey're actively maybe in
suicidal ideation or actively ina crisis situation at home, I
don't typically just jump rightinto that.

Jim Cunningham (11:45):
Sure.

Phyllis MComb (11:45):
But I don't know, how do you do that?

Jim Cunningham (11:47):
Well, I think it just takes some time, you know
for?
Them to be able to feelcomfortable in the room and be
willing to tell you things youknow, and people who come in,
who tend to be very anxious, forexample, it it takes.
It can take months, you know,particularly if they're, if
they're younger or um, butthat's true of adults too.

Phyllis MComb (12:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think there's an elementtoo of like vulnerability when
you're talking to somebody butto lay, so I have a chair you
lay back, you know.
So to be laying back eyesclosed and really be super
relaxed, it does take um anelement of trust, and trauma can
come into that.
So if someone has high sexualtrauma or maybe physical abuse,

(12:28):
that's too vulnerable.
So I very much make sure I'mlike sitting in an okay place.
Some people don't like me to belike right in front of them.
They don't want me to watchthem sleeping or whatever, so
I'll sit behind them.
So I try to move where peopleare most comfortable, because it
is pretty vulnerable and peopleare like, oh my gosh, I'm to
move where people are mostcomfortable because it is pretty
vulnerable and people are like,oh my gosh, I'm going to snore,

(12:48):
I snore, I know I'm going tosnore.
I'm like you wouldn't be thefirst, it's okay, you're all
right, snore away.
Um, that actually is a goodsign because I know they're
super comfortable.
So, um, so I try to pay reallyclose attention to what the
presenting issue is, and is myphysical presence going to
trigger any part of someonebeing uncomfortable?
Um, so we just talk a lot aboutthat.

(13:09):
That's kind of the first sessionand I'll have them sit in the
chair and I'm this far away, canyou hear me?
And I'll get closer.
Um, but I am, I do want to beclose enough.
There are signs and things thatsomebody really is in a
hypnotic state, like their jawis like it's hard to explain it
Like their cheeks kind of.
It's like the jaw reallyrelaxes and the teeth aren't
touching and so the jaw kind ofand the cheeks kind of thin out

(13:31):
a little bit.
I don't know, and you can tellby breathing by breathing and
eyes Like.
I feel like the muscles aroundthe eyes really relax when
somebody is in that state, butso I like to have eyes on people
.
Sometimes they don't like that.

Jim Cunningham (13:45):
Do you ever do this via video?

Phyllis MComb (13:48):
I have done that.
I don't like it as much becauseI feel like I feel about
telehealth in general, aboutlike just, I think it always
works better in person for me.
There's an element of justcloseness in a session.
I can do that and I have donethat.

Jim Cunningham (14:05):
Um yeah, but going back to your point too
about just kind of being able tosee them how they're breathing,
how their face is relaxing, uh,making sure they stay in their
window of tolerance, which Iassume is another similarity
with the MDR.
Yeah, yeah.

Phyllis MComb (14:19):
Yeah, we do that, and so, um, a window of
tolerances is a place of emotion.
Ability, I guess, is not a wordthat somebody can work in.
So I never want someone to be anine, 10 or so heightened, that
they're like I'm coming out ofmy skin.
I can't even talk about this.
And we don't really want you tobe at a zero one, maybe even a
two, because you're feelingpretty good about it.
There's nothing to process, soit's that same.

(14:41):
We want to be in a workingwindow.
Um, and it it looks very similarto EMDR.
If somebody gets, I and ithappens more with EMDR that
people shoot up and really gettriggered, um, with hypnosis it
doesn't, because they're alreadyin such a relaxed, calm state
and I'm not actively talkingabout something they're going
through.
We're talking, like I said,about airplanes and noticing

(15:03):
your body and relaxing yourlungs, all this kind of stuff.
So, but if somebody gets reallytriggered, it looks very much
the same as EMDR.
Do you like to breathe?
You know, maybe somevisualization turn on spa music
and it really I've been doing, Ido some work with um
hypnotherapy and guidedvisualization through ketamine

(15:25):
infusions and that is reallypowerful because the mind is,
you know, you're seeing colorsand everything's open and you're
looking at things in such avisual, um and like somatic
experience of it.
And so I try to have the room,you know, like what are they
seeing, hearing, feeling,touching?
We have oils going, scents, andthe guided imagery, or the

(15:50):
hypnosis, is really vivid andthe feedback I get is, like, you
know, imagine a gold, colortimes, 10.
So we can, you know, really usethat to our advantage of, I
guess, just really getting inthere doing some good work.
So that's been reallyfascinating to do yeah.

Jim Cunningham (16:06):
So let me ask you, just kind of backing up a
little bit, what types ofsymptoms and problems does it
seem to work best for?

Phyllis MComb (16:15):
I have.
Really.
I think it works for everythingand I've I've used it for, of
course, anxiety and depression,binge eating, um, how to
communicate better, um, justgeneral self-esteem, how you
feel about yourself as a parent.
It really, if you're having anynegative thoughts about

(16:35):
yourself or the world you're inhypnosis, can can work on that.

Jim Cunningham (16:39):
Yeah, about yourself or the world you're in
hypnosis.
Can can work on that?
Yeah, and you would say that'sprobably 90, 99% of the problems
.
It's not the things that happento people, it's the meaning
they make from it.

Phyllis MComb (16:49):
Yes, the story we tell ourself about what that
means If we have had these hardthings happen in our life health
problems or family problems oryou know any, anything that can
come up.

Jim Cunningham (17:00):
Hard thing for some people to hear is that
really?
The problem is just kind of theway you think about it, it's
you.
It's all right here, problem'sjust you.

Phyllis MComb (17:07):
It's the good news, and it's me too.
I do it too.

Jim Cunningham (17:09):
So it's the good news and bad news.

Phyllis MComb (17:10):
Yeah, it's all within you.
It's your fault, but you're atherapist.

(17:31):
You should have it figured out.
That's not how that workseither anything that I'm trying
to work with people um on or oruse that as a technique.
I've tried out myself, so Iknow what it feels like to lay
back and and I've gone toactually two therapists, um,
that do hypnotherapy I like tokind of see the different

(17:51):
techniques and I've learned alot from both of that.

Jim Cunningham (17:53):
Yep, For sure.
Yeah, Um so the how long is thesession last?

Phyllis MComb (17:58):
It's the same.
Well, we can do like intensiveswhere you go hour and a half to
two hours, um, but typicallyit's just a regular 50 minute
session.

Jim Cunningham (18:07):
Okay, do you kind of feel like you kind of
have to jump right into it toget through it, or is it?
What portion of the session isactual hypnosis?

Phyllis MComb (18:14):
Well, so I try to um, if someone comes in, let's
say, let's say anxiety, becauseit's easy, right, anxiety is
kind of I tell people it's likethe genes of the mental health
world, because it just goes witheverything.
Like, you know, you're gettingdivorced, there's anxiety.
Your kids are teenagers, youhave anxiety, you know.
So anxiety we do a lot on.
So if somebody comes in andlet's say they're having anxiety

(18:35):
over finances, had to change ajob and aren't making as much
money, I might say, you know,let's, let's try this four to
six times and see how we can doso.
There's different parts.
We're going to break that down.
This first session it might justbe the anxiety over losing my
job, feeling bad about myself.
The next one might be anxietyabout being able to fill,

(18:56):
fulfill the needs that I have inmy home feeding my family,
paying my bills, you know.
And so we're going to breakthat down every session.
It's not going to just begeneral anxiety.
We're going to look at like,what specifically are you
worried about for this sessionand then we'll move on to others
.
So because of that, um, somesessions are like a 15 minute
recording and some are 30.
It just depends.

(19:16):
No-transcript.

(19:41):
Different um varieties to use.

Jim Cunningham (19:44):
Yeah, okay, um, so what percentage of the time?
I know EMDR works great for alot of people, but not everybody
.

Phyllis MComb (19:52):
Yeah.

Jim Cunningham (19:53):
What percentage of people come in there and they
just can't quite.

Phyllis MComb (19:57):
I don't know if I have um a percentage.
Most people do well with it,but I have some people who it
makes them feel dizzy,especially with ketamine.
If we try to put those together, something about the
visualization and something I'masking them to do, or they're
just like I don't know if it'sworking, or it's hard for me to

(20:17):
really relax because you do haveto be in that theta brainwave
for that to really kind of takehold.
So if someone's laying there,you know stiff, stiff, stiff and
they can't relax, they mightget a good recording out of it.
But I don't know how usefulthat session, but most people
especially.
The more I tell people it's likeexercise and practice.
The more you do it, the betteryou'll get at it.

(20:38):
And so it's important to, nomatter who you're using maybe
someone's same voice and I usethe same background music.
I try to have everythingleading up to hypnosis be very
the same.
It's like before bed I brush myteeth, I wash my face, I put on
my jammies and my body's likenight night, you know.
So with this it's my voice,it's this chair, it's this sound

(21:03):
, it's this smell, and then whenI hear that, I can just more
gently go into hypnosis.
So it's practice.
If somebody doesn't do it rightthe first time, we can keep
trying.

Jim Cunningham (21:12):
Sure, yeah.
This isn't a process, though,that they're going to come see
you for two years for.

Phyllis MComb (21:21):
No, I actually don't want that, well, okay.
So there's a caveat.
I think it depends on howyou're looking at therapy in
general and what you want it todo for you.
So for me, there is an acutephase where people come in.
They hopefully find relief andget better, feel better, and
then they go.
I go to therapy once a month.
I don't do it because I'mactively in crisis.
You know, sometimes thingshappen, but for me I I look at

(21:45):
mental health practice likeexercise.
If I'm exercising and someonedrops a 50 pound boulder on me,
I might not like it, I canshuffle to the car, get it there
, but it doesn't break my backand I don't crumble under it.
So for me, I look at all ofthese things for myself.
Once I've I've gotten throughacute phases and the need that I
went for, then I'm using it forlike exercise, so that when

(22:10):
life hands me a difficultsituation, as it has before and
I know that it will again Idon't crumble under it.
I know how to get through it.
I know what my resources are.
So I think it just depends onhow the person I'm with views
therapy as well.
Some people just want to come.
You know I want to come forthree months and feel better,
and some people are like, no, Ineed to work through this, but

(22:30):
then I am looking for umsomething that I can do
regularly or long-term I don'tknow what are your thoughts on
that, what are you?

Jim Cunningham (22:38):
Well, I think you said everybody's a little
bit different.
Ideally, I think.
Um, once people have tools um,I think they have there's a
period of time where they haveto learn to trust the tools and
so they're not quite ready tolet go of the therapeutic will
be.

Phyllis MComb (22:55):
Yes, it's my safe place.
I don't want to.
I don't want to get rid of that.

Jim Cunningham (22:59):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's good and um, so it takes
a little bit of time to starttrusting the tools and and, as
you know, it's like weekly,bi-weekly, monthly.
Maybe I see every once in awhile when something flares up,
but yeah, well, and certainly wetaper down.

Phyllis MComb (23:15):
So if someone's coming every week for something
that does not last forever,hopefully we're getting people
to like monthly.
Or even I have people who doquarterly like check-ins and
kind of see how they're doing.
Or I have people who come andthen a year and a half later
they'll reach back out and say,hey, this, this thing happened,
I need to come in for that.
So it's ongoing in the sensethat they know it's there and

(23:35):
they use it, but they're maybenot coming in regularly.
I just tried it with what we do.
We hear so many hard things andI um have a lot going on in my
life as well, so I just I like aweekly or I mean a monthly like
.
Oh yeah, I know I'm going to goand work that out and I'll save
that for later.

Jim Cunningham (23:51):
Sure, yeah, yeah , okay.
Um, the tools that they cantake with them, I think of, like
self-hypnosis.
Is this training people to usethat on their own?

Phyllis MComb (24:04):
Um, there is.
I I don't do that, um, butthere is.
I mean I know there's a ton ofresources online and for people
who are limited by funds andtime which a lot of us time and
money that's difficult there arefree videos on YouTube.
You can.
You can find some.
I mean, there's a ton onYouTube.
In fact, if people want to know, if they like it, I'll just say
you know, just Google hypnosisfor relationships and see what

(24:26):
comes up.
The thing you need to know isthey're general.
When you come to a therapist,we're looking at what
specifically is bothering youabout losing your job.
You're not going to get that ona very general.
This is on YouTube.
It's going to be very general.
Um, they some of the videos arelike 12 hours long.
I zero stars, don't recommendthat and there might be people,

(24:50):
other therapists, that disagreewith that.
Um, the thought is you justsleep to it and then it's just
putting things in.
But what they found is reallyin that theta brainwave state is
where, um, so maybe going inand out of sleep it helps.
What I've found except tried tolisten to that and other people
to just kind of wakes you upall night long, um, and I think,
if that were the case, we wecould all like oh you know, I'm

(25:11):
gonna learn French, I'm justgoing to sleep to this 12 hour
video for like three months, andthen I'm going to be you know
like good at French, so I don'tknow, and I and I know there are
people who disagree with that,but I typically like a 15 to
about an hour hypnosis video.
I would recommend they also.
When they're finished, a newone will start and you'll get

(25:32):
like a Geico ad and that kind ofbrings you out of a jolt.
Yeah, so there are some caveats, but if they no-transcript.

Jim Cunningham (26:07):
Can you lower your voice two octaves, or is it
one of those voice modulators?
I don't know if I meant maybenotes, I don't know.

Phyllis MComb (26:13):
I'm not a music person.
I lower it and slow we go, lowand slow, not in the beginning.
So there are it's.
If you ever listened tobinaural beats or anything, have
you ever listened to that andhow they kind of start out like
and then they lower.
What that is is through thebeats.
It's manually putting you intothose different brain waves.

Jim Cunningham (26:32):
I don't know if you knew that.

Phyllis MComb (26:33):
So you kind of mimic that with your voice a
little bit.
You want it to go low and slow.

Jim Cunningham (26:39):
So this is really about timing in a lot of
ways, and there's there's aperiod of time, it sounds like,
where, by the time I lay downbefore I go to sleep, there's a
window of opportunity and that'swhat you want to capitalize on.
Yeah, that's a window ofopportunity.

Phyllis MComb (26:53):
I'm going to start saying that.

Jim Cunningham (26:54):
Yes.

Phyllis MComb (26:54):
Yeah, that's really, that's really it and
it's the same.
Like all of these practices inour in our culture, we have
there's different parts of ourbrain that need like rest and
need exercise.
So in American culture we'rereally good at like we get up
and we're going to get earlybird, going to get that warm and
we're going to work out andwe're going to go meet our goals

(27:15):
and do all the things.
Okay, run, run, run.
And then there's sleep, andsleep is super, super important
and there's all the phases ofsleep and what is restorative to
us in mind and body in that.
And then there's this middlepart, I believe, between that
it's kind of like being bored,or like when you're driving
somewhere you're like, oh, howdid I get here?

Jim Cunningham (27:35):
Almost dissociative.

Phyllis MComb (27:36):
Yes, yeah, like Almost dissociative.
Yes, yeah, like a flow state Ifyou're running or doing a hobby
that you love.
We have gotten rid of that withphones and with all the things

(27:59):
that occupy that the minute theywake up till they go to bed.
I think they see the biggestdifference with meditation,
hypnosis, yoga, because we'reforcing them to, to access that
part of their brain and youthink of like kids, like kids
who are developing brains.
They just never get into that.
I mean, how often were youbored as a kid, jim?
Like every car trip you'recounting cows.

Jim Cunningham (28:19):
That's right.
It was really good for you.
Stripes on the road, justwhatever yeah.

Phyllis MComb (28:23):
And we don't do that anymore.
We don't, um, not generallyeverybody, but um, so it's on
purpose taking time to have yourbrain in that um kind of state.

Jim Cunningham (28:36):
It's good.
What percentage of symptoms ordiagnoses problems?
However you want to say it,what do you tend to see?

Phyllis MComb (28:47):
Well, I think most of my caseload is women, so
I think I see mostly women forwomen's issues.
I certainly see men.
I have private practice andthen I also have paired up with
the psychiatrist's office thatdoes the ketamine, that
population.
I see a lot of veterans and soa lot of people coming in with

(29:08):
military trauma.
So I would say, kind of likewomen's issues, military trauma
a lot of just a lot of anxietyand a lot of anxiety of the
unsurety of the world and what'sgoing to happen with our
political climate and you know,housing has doubled and
groceries doubled, and so a lotof people worrying just about
life and how to get through itand how to help their kids get

(29:31):
through it.

Jim Cunningham (29:32):
Yeah, what did you use for anxiety before you
got into hypnotherapy?
What works that you've noticedin terms of how you couch it,
phrase it, discuss it.

Phyllis MComb (29:42):
Well it so.
I have people, especially withanxiety and depression, get a
full physical workup becausethere are.
You know, we, our bodies aremachines and there could be
something just physiologicallyoff, especially for the women.
I see, if I specialize in womenand kind of the 30 and up crowd
um, we're going through thingslike menopause or um, having

(30:04):
babies and our hormones are allover the place, and so let's
just get a good picture of whatare your hormones doing.
Is your thyroid Okay?
Do you have vitamin D?
You know all of those things.

Jim Cunningham (30:14):
Eliminate the basics eliminate the basics.

Phyllis MComb (30:16):
I don't go right to mental health medication and
really that's not my scope.
You know what we don'tprescribe, and that is with
someone in their doctor,although I do support that and I
think the research shows thatmedication and therapy is the
gold standard.
Right Of care.
So I support that.
But let's just kind of see, seewhat's going on, and then a lot

(30:39):
of things that just calm thebody.
Anxiety is funny because youcan get the racing thoughts and
they can just loop and play allday long.
So it is a very active brainstate and talking.
Have a lot of luck or help byjust doing things that calm the
body and their strategies.
You know, of course, deepbreathing, taking a nap, holding

(31:08):
ice cubes.
If someone's in a panic stateand all of their blood rushes to
their organs that are, that'sprotecting, then we need to get
do things that get the bloodthroughout the whole body again.
So just weighted blankets.
I mean all of those thingsreally do help and do as many as
you need.

Jim Cunningham (31:24):
Breathe under a blanket.
That's good, yeah, which isinteresting because, you know, a
lot of times people run theirhands under cold water just just
almost as a distraction.
But there's some physiologicalbenefits to creating some cold.

Phyllis MComb (31:36):
Yes.
Or if people are like numbingout and dissociating and you
know and that and that state, Ithink, um, people don't really
know what that is.
We think of movies like split,you know, but really that's if
anyone's ever had a time whereit's like, oh, it feels like I'm
in a dream.
I mean, I'm here, but it's likea dream state, that's a
dissociative state, and so, um,I'll have people, even if you

(31:58):
just have hand lotion, just putlotion on and just start
squeezing your body, let's just,let's put it on.
Do you feel your arm?
Tell me what temperature it is,what you know.
Now, press really hard, pressoff, and we're just trying to
get their, their body to orientagain to the present.

Jim Cunningham (32:14):
Sure, how often do?
Or how do you recognize ifsomebody's going through the
hypnotherapy, that they're notpresent anymore?

Phyllis MComb (32:22):
Well, um, kind of the nature of it, they're.
They're not a little bit youknow.
Um it looks different becauseit's maybe opposite of something
else, because they're not goinginto that relaxed state,
they're too anxious.

Jim Cunningham (32:36):
They're stiff, they're coughing.

Phyllis MComb (32:38):
They might look at me.
You know we're still doing this, um, but so I it's.
It looks a bit different, ifthat makes sense.
So, like um, once they'rerelaxed, we're, we're good.
So it's getting someone to feelcomfortable enough and and and
there's.
So there's um phases ofhypnotherapy.
The first one is we're justgoing to relax, you start

(33:04):
relaxing.
The second phase is what wecall a deepener, and that's
where we start changing vocaltone and everything to kind of
get to that data stage.
Then we're in like what's themeat?
What are what are we working on?
We're going to do that Um, allof those cognitive, cognitive
changes and then bringingsomeone out of it.
And so those first two stagesare kind of the most important
in a way, because everybody, um,the timing is dependent on
everybody.

Jim Cunningham (33:24):
Right.

Phyllis MComb (33:24):
So I'm.
That's why I'm kind of lookingfor, like are they relaxing, are
they in that place?
You know, someone might need adeepener.
That's like 30 seconds, andsome we I might be like okay,
four minutes you know we'redoing it so um it's one of the
benefits, I think, of justreally doing it in person.
Online it's harder to tell ifthat's happening for someone.

Jim Cunningham (33:43):
Yeah, the trick I assume it sounds similar to
EMDR is that you kind of have tobe watching the clock and you
know how much time we've gotleft.
So then we've got time to getstable, come out of all of that
and get ready to send you outthe door.

Phyllis MComb (33:57):
Yes, and I think you know, like with therapy, one
of the most therapeutic thingsis to sit with someone who
doesn't really know my life, whohas positive regard for me,
that can hear this thing thatI'm going through from my
perspective and not judge it andhelp me look at it and gain
perspective from my point ofview.
Okay, with hypnotherapy,especially if someone's really

(34:20):
anxious or it's just running oncortisol, even if we don't
really get to a lot of the meat,even if it really is, just it
took 20 minutes for someone toreally really like calm down.
That was beneficial.
I have a lot of people who justlike I haven't been that
relaxed years, you know, and itit just like I haven't been that

(34:42):
relaxed years, you know, and itit.
That's hard here, cause we'rejust so, um, we push ourselves,
and then we throw monster drinkson top of it, and then we, you
know, and then we've got to runa marathon, and then, um, and so
just our nervous systems are sowired, I think a lot of
cortisol a lot of cortisol.

Jim Cunningham (34:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah .
So, uh, yeah, the the, the ideathat all the people have all
this cortisol.
And then is there anything theycan do on a daily basis just
for themselves to help reducethat?
In your experience, uh, whetherthat's through self-hypnosis or
self-care, kind of things.

Phyllis MComb (35:14):
I for me personally, and just what I've
seen social media media is ahuge thing or just being on your
phone in general, um, if, andand I don't know whether phones
are addictive or not Peopleargue about that, but I
definitely know that people usethat as like, oh, I'm bored, I'm
on it, I'm upset, I'm on it, um, I'm ignoring someone, I'm on

(35:36):
it.
Um, so we're using it as likethis coping strategy, but then
you get into this world whereyou're seeing the perfect parts
of people all the time, and soit's not reality and it's little
snippets of information thatare also rewiring our brain for
these quick things.
So I don't know that you haveto get rid of all together, but
certainly monitor it and do less.
I got rid of all social media.

(35:58):
I'm not on it anymore.
I feel a lot better.
I have no idea what's happeningto Carol, who's on her boat in
South of France.
I have no, I have no idea.
And then, because I don't havethat, then I've had to return to
some of the things that I wasdoing in my time.
Anyway, it was very easy for meto get on my phone in an hour
and a half later.

(36:18):
Be like whoa.
I need to get dinner going.
So now there are other thingsthat I'm doing with my time that
feel more beneficial.
Not everybody wants to givethat up or be mad that I said
that, but and maybe that's notfor them, I think taking time to
exercise.
Exercise, we know, like studieshave shown, it can be as
beneficial as mental healthmedication.

(36:39):
We know, like studies haveshown, it can be as beneficial
as mental health medication.
So exercise and try your bestto do it outside at least 30
minutes a day.
Get sun early morning, sun inyour eyeballs, get that.

Jim Cunningham (36:50):
Cause you're.
You're fighting this dopaminekind of response and again.
You know dopamine.
You know that Dorito is goingto give you a little dopamine,
but dopamine isn't satisfiedwith a Dorito.

Phyllis MComb (37:01):
Right, it wants the whole bag.
Yeah, yeah.

Jim Cunningham (37:06):
Um so like, and in a lot of ways it's there.
This is an addictive kind ofproblem.

Phyllis MComb (37:11):
And and I.

Jim Cunningham (37:11):
I do think that you know, um, we were talking
about Jonathan height, um, and alot of his research and how a
lot of people now you know, withstudies and stuff they found
that most people would bewilling to get paid to get rid
of tech talk if they could butthey can't, because then they've
called themselves from the herdand they're left out.

Phyllis MComb (37:33):
Really interesting how that's happened.
Right, we like we've createdthese pockets of um belonging
and group groupages I'm makingup all kinds of words today but
groups that if we pull out,we're we're worried about and
then you throw in like families,like a lot of people are in
touch with distant cousins andthings, which I think is
wonderful.

(37:53):
But then you have to look okay,is there?
There's like a tipping pointwhere now I'm on this all the
time, I'm on this all the time,and and I I think a good marker
is, if you're, if you're doingit too much, it's like what are
your emotions when you're doingit?
Are you getting like goingthrough political scroll and
like getting really upset?
That's not smart, you know?
Um, yeah, so I, you know we'vegot to be stewards of that, as,

(38:18):
as technology comes out andcontinues, we need to look at
the impact it's having on us andour bodies and minds.

Jim Cunningham (38:23):
So, yeah, yeah, the more research doesn't seem
to indicate Good things.
Good things, no, no, no.

Phyllis MComb (38:28):
And maybe a little bit.
You know, like technology hasbeen amazing and all of the
advances we've had.
But then I don't know.
It's probably like everything,it's both good and bad.
But then I don't know.
It's probably like everything,it's both good and bad.
It's like a rubber band.
The more information we get,the more we can also harm
ourself with it.

Jim Cunningham (38:42):
But yeah, what is the um if somebody were just
to call you out of the blue andsay, you know, a 15 minute
consult or something to see ifthis is something for them?
What, what kinds of things doyou tell them, or some?
What are some of the mostimportant things they need to
know about trying hypnotherapy?

Phyllis MComb (39:01):
Oh, that's a good question.
Um, I think it would be verygeneral to like maybe a first
session or I don't know.
I probably would just have themcome in for a free console and
sit more than 15 minutes, andjust what is it you're wanting
to use this for?
What are you hoping to get outof it?
Just that someone, there's an,there is an element of

(39:21):
willingness in hypnotherapy, sojust that someone's coming in
and asking about it and curious,they're probably a good
candidate because the the reallyum, the only thing you have to
be do to do is be a willingparticipant and just allow the
process to happen.
So, um, but I think it wouldjust be general things, maybe
like what we've talked aboutno-transcript.

(40:01):
90% of the time the clientshould be talking or whatever we
learn in school, it's not likethat.
With hypnotherapy.
I'm doing most of the talking,so there's a little bit of a
shift.
If someone is used to therapy,it looks very different.

Jim Cunningham (40:12):
If someone was looking for a hypnotherapist,
what would be?
A couple of red flags that theyshould keep looking.

Phyllis MComb (40:20):
I mean there are some very good hypnotherapists
that I don't know have master'sdegrees in counseling and all of
that.
So I don't want to discountthat because you know experience
does help with that.
You're looking for theirqualifications.
Was it an accredited programschool?
But generally I there was a lotof learning becoming just a

(40:42):
licensed professional counselorof how learning how people think
and work and what happens ifthey get triggered and all of
those kinds of things.
So for me, safely, I would saymaster's level or higher.
Um, you know there are somedoctors of psychology that do it
.
I feel like kind of, maybe themore letters the better.

(41:04):
Um, but you, you don't wantsomeone who's like, yeah, I went
to Florida for a couple ofweekends, Now I'm hypnotherapist
.
You don't want that.
Yeah, yeah, got it, yeah, um.

Jim Cunningham (41:13):
so, without divulging any confidentiality or
confidential information, whatare some of the great success
stories you've seen?

Phyllis MComb (41:23):
A lot of just peace in an anxious moment and
feeling like secure in that Iknow what to say Like, say,
someone I'm trying to think ofan example that I could give
that wouldn't bring breachthings.
Recently, working with someonewho has a very traumatic and
stressful family experience andthey love their family and

(41:45):
there's a movement now in thecounseling world world.
I don't know if you've seen it,but just to like cut people off
, we're just going to dissociatefrom our family, oh, that's
they're.
They're not behaving in a waythat you like well, just don't
talk to them, which I think isdamaging in another way and is
not using communication skillsand is very isolating for
someone who then has to beseparated from your people.

(42:09):
Nothing is more painful than thegroup that I came from no
longer wants me and I no longerwant them.
So I don't really generallysupport that unless it's truly
there is.
I mean, clearly there are caseswhere there is abuse and um
situations where that is notokay to be in contact, but most
of the time it's things we canwork through.

(42:29):
And maybe we can like saythere's a family that argues all
the time about politicsDemocrat, republican, whatever
then we're just going to put aboundary around this thing, and
this thing isn't good for us totalk about, and we haven't
learned a way to do that inwhich we can hear each other
without flipping tables andkeying cars, right?

Jim Cunningham (42:47):
We're not.

Phyllis MComb (42:47):
We're not good at that but we're good at these
other things.
So in working with this personand I never determined that that
will always be up to the clientI would never say you know, you
should probably never talk toyour dad again.
I would just never do that.
But if they're feeling likethat's what I need to do, great,
we're going to work throughthat.
Or we might look at what arethe parts that you need to

(43:07):
protect, what are what'shappening in this system that's
hard for you.
What part of excuse me thesystem do you lose yourself in?
What excuse me the system doyou lose yourself in?
What part of the system do, allof a sudden, you flip and with
your parents, you become theparent and now they're the child
.
That that's the dysfunctionalpart.
And so just recently had luckwith someone.
We did seven or eight scriptson boundaries and how to hold

(43:29):
boundaries, and there was a lotof fear If, if I set boundaries,
I mean, and people won't, won'tlike me anymore.
And so we did.
We did a whole script about, um, uh, a farmer who had sheep,
and the sheep were free roamingsheep, but the town was creeping
in and it was becoming unsafefor these sheep, and so he had.

(43:52):
He thought about what are theways I could keep them safe.
And you know we won't gothrough all the ways.
But eventually he put up afence and at first he was
worried that the sheep would bemad at him because they couldn't
roam or that the townspeoplewould think well, that's really
rude, that you're trying to, youknow, wall off this view of
yours.
But in having this fence herealized, well, it actually
keeps them safe and separate andmy sheep are happy and healthy

(44:14):
and the townspeople come andenjoy the countryside and
actually these boundaries that Ithought were a problem actually
have saved us and so, likethat's an example of, like a
metaphor, so that's been veryhelpful for her, hearing her
come back every week and say youknow, I got that call and I
didn't do what I always what Ialways did.
And because they're seeingchange, the anxiety goes down.

(44:35):
I trust myself.
I can be in this family who Ilove, who can be really
dysfunctional sometimes, but thedysfunctional parts I don't
have to participate in anymore.

Jim Cunningham (44:44):
Yeah.
Um things like that a lot offeeling of control.

Phyllis MComb (44:48):
Yes, control, okay.
I um work a lot with disorderedeating, binge eating.
I there's a lot of scripts onum.
Women uh, just such a highpercentage of us struggle with
that and self image, and so Iwork a lot with women on um self
image and I don't I don't umnecessarily do like weight

(45:10):
control, like hypnosis to loseweight.
There are people out there thatdo that.
That's never really my focusbecause I feel like weight
depends on so many thingsdetermines a healthy weight, and
I just believe health is thethe game I'm going for.
So my scripts are more focusedon a healthy, healthy eating,
not feeling, not going into thedepths of despair of eating a

(45:32):
piece of cake which a lot ofpeople do and just kind of
working around how to how to behealthy and healthy body,
establishing healthy routines.
A lot of people do and just kindof working around how to how to
be healthy and healthy body,establishing healthy routines.
A lot of especially women andmen who have sexual trauma in
their past.
They can get reallydisconnected from their body's
signals.
So not only do I not know whenI'm hungry or full, I also don't

(45:53):
know when I'm mad, upset, whenI need to say something.
So some of the script workmight be reconnected.
We're just going to this time.
We're just going to learn whatour body's saying to us and how
to listen and how to respond.
We might do that a little bitand then we'll apply it to
eating and how we move throughthat.

Jim Cunningham (46:10):
So it really just depends Um because most of
the symptoms are really tip ofthe iceberg.
That's really not the problem,yeah.

Phyllis MComb (46:17):
Well and remember , we're attacking the thought.
We're just attacking thethought that you know I look
terrible today or I can't eat apiece of cake, or for every
piece of food over this veryrestricted amount I have to go
run a mile every bite.
You know I've heard some reallyrestrictive things, so we're
changing all of that so thatthey lose that.

(46:39):
There's no reason to punishyourself for eating the
chocolate you know, eat thechocolate move on.

Jim Cunningham (46:47):
You know, maybe maybe find this to be true also,
but I guess I'm alwayssurprised how many people just
don't like themselves.

Phyllis MComb (46:55):
Yes.

Jim Cunningham (46:55):
Self-deprecating .
They're horrible people,they're lazy, they're no good.
They're terrible parents, allof that.
Do you find that you have toaddress each of those separately
?
Is it kind of like awhack-a-mole process?

Phyllis MComb (47:07):
Yeah, we can.
Okay, now you're a good parent,but um yeah.

Jim Cunningham (47:10):
And I guess, as you address one, there's
probably second and third orderbenefits that bleed over into
other, absolutely yeah.

Phyllis MComb (47:18):
I think, like an EMDR, that that will come up to
that.
You've got this targetingnegative cognition and then it
just fractures and I'm writingdown well, we can go here, we
can go, here, we can go.
So yeah, it can be that.
Or, you know, I'm a rockstar atbusiness and I turned $10 into
a million in a year.
You know, I, I've got thatnailed down, but I can't connect
with my kid at all.
You know my, my upbringing orwhatever.

(47:41):
You know just, uh, so a lot ofit's interesting, Um, just the
process of self-discovery forpeople that they don't even know
that those thoughts exist inthem Like, if someone says
something, I'll say maybe saysomething like okay, slow that
down.
What did you say?
You know they'll repeat it, andwhat did you hear?

(48:01):
What does that mean for you?
And they're like oh my gosh,I've been telling myself this.
You know they don't realize.
We don't realize because it's,I mean, I don't even know how
much of a second, but it doesn'ttake long for us to just go
into that programming, you'renot?

Jim Cunningham (48:15):
safe.
Yeah, that programming You'renot safe.
Yeah, it's the um, yeah, it'sthe script.
When the gets triggered, theold script runs and you know.
Somebody once said you know youpractice something for 20 years
.
You get really good at it.

Phyllis MComb (48:25):
Yeah, yes.
And you're undoing you'retrying to undo a lot of self
conditioning you know, musclememory except with the brain
with the brain, and so this iswhy meditation, mindfulness,
hypnosis, all of those is soimportant, because it is a brain
exercise, it's getting us outof.
We're exercising our brain,whether we know it or not, but

(48:46):
are we using good form?

Jim Cunningham (48:47):
Or are we being intentional?
Or are we just letting themonkeys run the zoo Right?

Phyllis MComb (48:52):
I love monkeys.
They're the funny ones.
Everybody goes to the zoo forthe monkeys.
We don't want them runningthings.

Jim Cunningham (48:57):
We don't want them running things.

Phyllis MComb (48:59):
Yeah, I've had a lot of success to like to use it
like maybe with not couples,like I'm not doing this in
couples therapy, but if somebodycomes in, my husband's never
helping me around the house.
I'm doing everything alone.
Anything big with the kids,it's on me.
He just gets to go to work andcome home.
All of those in a lot of womenare pretty embedded, but they're

(49:24):
not true.
They're not true.
And so, um, having success ineasing parts of relationships
that are difficult.
So now we're going to ease andwe're going to kind of work on
that rigid thought you haveabout your spouse and then we're
going to create ways in whichwe can communicate with them and
, more able, get what we need.

(49:44):
That's actual reality of whatthey're doing.

Jim Cunningham (49:48):
So some CBT thrown in there too, Some
cognitive distortions andchallenging those irrational
thoughts.

Phyllis MComb (49:54):
Yeah, black and white thinking a lot.
Yep, absolutely Sure.

Jim Cunningham (49:59):
So a lot of it is, and I guess another way of
saying that is just helping thembecome more mentally flexible.

Phyllis MComb (50:04):
Yes, that's a great way to say that, jim.
Thank you yeah.

Jim Cunningham (50:08):
Well, now I tried it once Did you Okay.
I'm like, okay, I had a friendand they're like hey, if you
want to come try it.
So I, you know it was the bigrecliner and you lay back.
It's very comfortable and it'snot what you think.
It is Right, yeah, right.
It's not this weird state, it'sjust you just feel relaxed,
yeah, and you know it takes afew minutes not to feel weird.

Phyllis MComb (50:29):
Yeah.

Jim Cunningham (50:30):
But yeah, it's again.
I guess that's the.
My big takeaway is that it'snot what I thought it was Okay.
Now I haven't seen it actuallywork, but um, I, I, it makes a
little more sense when you gointo a room and you can
demystify it a little bit.

Phyllis MComb (50:45):
Yes, and I I mean a couple of things in that too.
I think, um, like someone who.
We live in a therapeutic world,you and I, so we're talking to
people.
What did that mean for you?
We're analyzing, we do it forourself, we're very open to
emotions and all theirexpressions, but you get an
accountant in front of you whohasn't looked at an emotion for

(51:07):
30 years.
I mean, like this can just bemind blowing for them.

Jim Cunningham (51:11):
So some of it is going to find that on Excel.
I'm going to find that on Excel.

Phyllis MComb (51:15):
And I know that there are some very emotionally
open accountants.
I know this but, um, I forgetsometimes that this world that I
live in of like feelings, andwhat does that mean?

Jim Cunningham (51:26):
And what are the you?

Phyllis MComb (51:27):
know all of that's going on.
Your average person doesn'twalk that road, so they might be
feeling that a little bitdifferently.
And then to look at it againlike exercise you're not going
to run for 10 minutes for twodays and go do that marathon and
live through it, or maybe youcan't, but it's every day.
So you know, when you'reexercising regularly, after

(51:48):
three, four or five monthsyou're like I feel pretty good.
It's the same with these kindof mindfulness and your, your,
these practices.
I'm going to call it a practicebecause we should do it.
So how it looks for me and andwhat I'll tell people is you
know, let's hit this pretty hardfor like one to two months and
I want you to listen to thescript every day.
You're coming in weekly.
We're making these recordingsfor you.

(52:09):
I want you to listen to themevery day and then, depending on
how you feel, you might go intokind of a maintenance phase.
So I listen.
I do this probably twice a weekbefore bed.
I'll listen to something, or Ilove to do it, um, when I'm
taking naps, because I don'twant to sleep in like a 20
minute power nap while I'mgetting like you're the best,
like yeah, it's great.
Um, yeah.

(52:30):
So you can't just do it once,jim, you've got to do over and
over.

Jim Cunningham (52:35):
Well, do you find, though, that it's same
with the MDR?
A lot of the results are verysubtle.

Phyllis MComb (52:39):
Yes, they are.
They're very subtle and peoplewill say how do I know when I
feel better?
Well, um, probably when you're,you notice the reaction you've
always had, if maybe it's alittle bit different.
I had someone who was very upsetat their spouse.
Their spouse did somethingreally big and really hurt them
and there was a lot of anxietyand I can't trust this person.

(53:01):
And so if they say they'regoing to be home at five, and
it's five 30 and five 45, and mymind is making up all kinds of
stuff of where they are andwhat's going on and they come
through the door Maybe they werejust in traffic and I'm
chopping onions, I'm, I'm, we'realready in a fight and he
hasn't even been through thefront door.
So I had someone where that waskind of what was going on, and

(53:21):
they came in one day and they'relike it's working, you know,
and this has been like months,and I was like, okay, you don't
tell me.
Well, I was making dinner and Ithought I was expecting them at
five, five, 15, five, 30, five,40 rolls around, he walks in
and I'm like oh, hey, likenothing, and I wasn't triggered

(53:42):
in like the fear of what wasgoing on.
And so did it work.
And I'm like, yeah, that's allyou know.
We can't, we have, we don'thave a magic wand.
I think people um, expecttherapists to fix things.
It's not my job.
You an hour one?
You know an hour once a week,or every other week?
Hour one, you know an hour oncea week or every other week?
How many hours in the day?
Or some living.
So it's kind of pulling theshade back on what's going on

(54:05):
and how do I fix it.
But that's really for theperson to go out there and do,
and so especially I don't knowif you've seen this, but like
parents will bring kids in andbe like fix them.
It'll be three times andthey'll say my kid's still
talking back to me, why haven'tyou fixed them?

Jim Cunningham (54:20):
So it's just not , it doesn't work that way I
wish we could make a lot ofmoney.

Phyllis MComb (54:25):
If we could solve , we could have that one just
make everybody's life perfect,and so there's still an element
of the.
You know someone who has along-term illness.
I can't, I can't help that.
You know.
I can't take cancer away and Ican't take hearing loss away or
whatever people are strugglingwith.
However, we can change maybehow you think and feel about

(54:45):
that and the meaning you'regiving yourself that.

Jim Cunningham (54:51):
How does that tend to translate, and maybe in
your experience, what you'veseen in other people in reducing
somatic symptoms?

Phyllis MComb (54:58):
Say that in another way, say that for me.

Jim Cunningham (55:00):
So a lot of people with EMDR they have.
You know I knew a lady who hadan issue with her mom and that
was what was processed duringEMDR effectively and she had
chronic neck pain.
Okay, and she said as soon as Iresolved that 90% of the neck
pain went away.

Phyllis MComb (55:18):
Yeah, literally a% of the neck pain went away.
Yeah, literally a pain in theneck.
This person was a pain in theneck.
Yeah, I, well and I, it getsstored there, but I think I mean
there's all kinds of ways, andthat's probably someone who
works more like somatic, like abody worker, can tell you more.
I know for myself, if I'mstressed, I'm like this all the

(55:43):
time.
I'm sitting in the chair, youknow, and so I just think
holding our bodies, in certainways, yoga is great because it
releases parts of the fashionmuscles that you are holding
tight, and so you literally,after a while, start standing
differently and sittingdifferently.

Jim Cunningham (55:55):
So causes other problems.

Phyllis MComb (55:58):
Yeah, or I think you know, there's like muscle
memory and things, and sosomeone who's had a car accident
, who really hurt their arm andshoulder whenever something
might be, um you know,threatening, in that way those
muscles are, like you know, likejust kind of protects it.
Again, it's so interesting howthat, how that happens, and
we're so like intertwined.

(56:19):
Our minds are spiritual sidenot necessarily religious side,
but the spiritual part of us andour bodies, and so our bodies
can physically get sick andcause dysfunction in those other
areas, Our thought processescan be off and cause issues in
our bodies.
And as therapists or like formyself, I I feel like I can
intervene at any one of those.
You know, if, if I'm hearingsomeone really in negative

(56:43):
thoughts and I'm seeing thisover exaggeration, all that kind
of stuff, then we're going tostart kind of with how you're
feeling and thinking.
But if someone's like man I gointo these panic attacks and I
don't, I don't even know whatI'm thinking All of a sudden I'm
in my car, I'm sweating, youknow, then we're going to maybe
let's look at some somatic stuff, we're going to intervene at
that level so it works.
Can I tell a quick story?

Jim Cunningham (57:03):
I remember.

Phyllis MComb (57:04):
Okay, so what kind of got me interested in it?
Although it was several yearsbefore I did it, I toured the
Olympic Center down here inColorado Springs and we're
looking at all these amenitiesright that these athletes have.
They have podiatrists andnutritionists and they have
someone that washes their dogfor them and they have all these
things.
But if someone gets injured orthey were in this injury room

(57:27):
where they have these treadmills, where there's water up to here
for them to quickly recover.
But then they said also theywork with their sports
psychologist sports psychologistand what we have seen is like
even hooking their bodies up tothings that measure, like just
visualizing that you know you'rein the race and I want you to
imagine yourself Now you're bentover, you hear the crowd, the

(57:48):
starting gun and your musclestwitch and off you go and their
body isn't really doing that.
But having that visualizationwith their psychologist over and
over, and I can't remember thestats, go tour it, they'll tell
you.
But, um, the recovery wasamazing and they didn't really
lose like the muscle memory ofnot having actually done it.

Jim Cunningham (58:07):
Certainly.

Phyllis MComb (58:07):
Yeah, and I'm not even doing it justice to how
the person who described thisyou know on the tour and I
thought that is fascinating youknow, that you can do like
hypnosis in an injury and healyourself faster and be right
back at an Olympic level withoutmissing a beat.
So I kind of thought, oh, that'dbe really cool, and kind of

(58:28):
hearing about it with therapy,and then the pandemic happened.
I was like you know, it's timefor me to do that and try it for
myself.
That's when I went and try itfor myself.

Jim Cunningham (58:36):
So you've noticed great results.

Phyllis MComb (58:38):
Yes, yeah, there's when I went and and
tried for myself.
So you've noticed great results.
Yes, yeah, there's differentthings.
There's a book I love and um,it's by James Doty, I believe is
his name, but it's called intothe magic shop.
I also read that kind of aboutthe same time and um, the
premises is he had a kid with alot of upheaval and trauma and
this lady came into his life andbasically taught him how to
relax and meditate and visualizewhat he wanted out of his life.

(59:00):
But he didn't know that that'swhat it was, so she was teaching
them kind of him the same stepsof like um, you know, relaxing
your body and then what's calledopening the heart and pouring
out love into the universe andthen visualizing what you want
for your life.
So he would visualize himselfin Porsches and being a surgeon
and you know, and he did allthat.
Okay, and he did all that.

(59:20):
So I think, um, what we can seewe're walking towards.
If we don't have anything youknow for us, like that, how do
we move forward?
So, if we really don't feelthat we're ever going to get out
of this rut in this job andwe're ever going to be happy,
we're never going to have afulfilling relationship, then
guess what?
You probably won't, yeah,you're probably not.

Jim Cunningham (59:43):
Whether you believe you can or you can't,
you're probably right.

Phyllis MComb (59:45):
You're probably right, yeah, and so hypnosis and
all of those things, meditationand mindfulness are a bit
different.
Um and and how they focus, andthings like that.
Sometimes I'll, I'll tellpeople.
You know, hypnosis is reallyjust meditation with a goal that
we're not, we're, we're, we'regonna.
The end goal is that you nolonger feel this way or think
this way about yourself.

Jim Cunningham (01:00:06):
Yeah, yeah, but for sure, even when you're going
through the hypno, hypnotherapy, we have a goal in mind.
We know what we're trying toget.

Phyllis MComb (01:00:12):
Okay, Yep, and you know we've got a medical
model as therapists, and sogoals and objectives, did we
meet that?
Are you listening to yourrecordings?
Um, you know what's measurable?
Did you wake up in a panic thismorning?
Oh good, you didn't you know.
So, um, yeah, Well, againthanks.

Jim Cunningham (01:00:32):
Thanks for the time.

Phyllis MComb (01:00:32):
This is great.

Jim Cunningham (01:00:35):
Hopefully, a lot of people will maybe get some
good benefit from it anddemystify this a little bit.
Thanks for checking us outtoday on the Unscripted Mind.
If you found this episodehelpful, please share it with
somebody who might need it Also.
Please subscribe, follow us andleave us a review, and if you
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Until next time, remember lifedoesn't come with a script.

(01:00:58):
So embrace the unexpected,cherish the unplanned, always
stay curious and have an amazingday.
We'll see you next time on theUnscripted Mind.