May 15, 2024 • 15 mins
Ever feel like you're speaking, but no one's truly listening? You're not alone. I'm Jim Cunningham, and on the latest Unscripted Mind podcast, we're unpacking the art of listening—a cornerstone of connection so often neglected that its absence can be mistaken for indifference. It's a conversation that promises to equip you with the insights and tools necessary to not only hear but also to be heard, ensuring that you walk away with a newfound appreciation for the power of empathetic communication.
In our deep dive into the intricacies of interaction, we confront the common barriers that thwart our ability to fully engage with those around us. From the allure of incessant problem-solving to the comfort of shallow exchanges, I shed light on the invisible hurdles that keep us from truly tuning in. With a blend of candor and expertise, I lay out a three-pronged strategy for refining listening skills and responding with genuine empathy, accompanied by five actionable steps that promise to transform your conversations, alleviate stress, and forge more meaningful bonds in every facet of your life. Join us and take the first step towards nurturing the connections that matter the most.
The goal of The UnScripted Mind Podcast is to give you fresh perspectives, practical insights and tools you can use to give you more choices, self-awareness and control of your feelings, reactions and behaviors.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jim Cunningham (00:01):
David Augsburger once said, being heard is so
close to being loved that forthe average person, they are
almost indistinguishable.
We assume listening andcommunicating with others is a
simple thing maybe for some, butfor many it isn't anything but
intuitive.
Today, on the Unscripted Mind,I'll address the things that
(00:23):
make communication difficult andwhat we can do to listen better
, and give you five tangiblethings you can do to improve how
well you listen.
Welcome to the Unscripted Mindpodcast, where our goal is to
give you fresh perspectives,practical insights and tools you
(00:46):
can use to give you morechoices, increase your awareness
and have better control of yourfeelings, reactions and
behaviors.
My name is Jim Cunningham andI'm a licensed professional
counselor, and today we're goingto discuss the one thing that
you can do to improverelationships, feel more
connected with others and reducea ton of stress on yourself.
(01:08):
That one thing is effectivelistening.
I can't begin to tell you howmany clients have asked how to
better connect with theirco-workers, kids, parents,
spouses, other people in theirlives, but I also have an equal
number that report quote neverfeeling heard, and of those who
have reported never feelingheard, I haven't met one who
(01:30):
wasn't pretty pissed off aboutit.
It's a very common problem onboth sides of the fence the
hearing and the being heard.
Today we'll focus on the hearing.
Again, this is a verychallenging problem for many,
many people, especially if thetopic is emotional or deeply
personal.
It's not something that comesnaturally to most of us.
(01:51):
So to tackle this problem,there's kind of a three-pronged
approach I'm looking at.
The first thing is what are thethings that get in the way of
effective listening?
The second part is how do wejust listen better?
And then the third part is howdo we just listen better?
And then the third part is howdo we respond better?
As somebody once said, once Iknow better, I can do better.
(02:11):
So what are some of the waysthat are?
What are some of the problemsthat get in the way of effective
listening?
Well, first of all, I thinknumber one we may not be
interested in what people haveto say, and as much as we're
interested in telling them whatwe want them to hear.
I'll say that again we are notas interested in what people
have to say as much as we areinterested in telling them what
(02:34):
we want them to hear.
This is particularly true withparents and children.
The second thing that gets inthe way is fear and anxiety.
We're often too concerned aboutour role in the conversation
and the other person becomessecondary or sometimes just
forgotten.
The third one I would say ispressure.
We feel pressure orresponsibility to fix something
(02:57):
instead of just enjoying theconversation.
The fourth thing that gets inthe way is, honestly, our
comfort levels.
They won't allow it.
It's uncomfortable to seesomeone crying or hurting or in
need.
Sometimes it's justoverwhelming for some people.
The fifth thing is it's justeasier not to.
Frankly, it's more simple justto keep the conversation
(03:21):
superficial.
We can duck and dodge and wecan change the topic.
We can distract ourselves bytalking about tangential things.
Now, most of these things arenot things we are actively aware
of.
The fact that I am distracted,the fact that I'm not
comfortable, I'm just notinterested in the conversation.
(03:41):
Sometimes it seems that simple,but I think there's a lot of
other things going on sometimesfor us that we may not be aware
of.
It's always good to kind of justpause and kind of understand
that, Maybe ask a few questionsof yourself about what is it
that's making this conversationdifficult and why is it hard for
me to pay attention?
So listening, like most thingsis a skill that needs to be
(04:01):
practiced.
Often just removing some of theobstacles is enough, and here
are some things to remember whenyou're listening.
So this is kind of the secondpart here.
I think if you try a couple ofthese things, automatically
things will get easier for youand you'll feel a lot less
stress and pressure as thelistener.
So the first thing I would saytake a deep breath, relax and
(04:25):
just listen.
Never forget that lettingsomeone talk is therapeutic in
and of itself.
There's nothing you need to doto add to it.
I can't tell you how manyclients have shown up in my
office and just gotten stuff outemotionally, saying things
they've never said beforegetting things out of their head
(04:46):
Again, nothing you can do toadd to that.
In and of itself it is verytherapeutic.
So take a deep breath, relaxand just listen and enjoy the
story.
The second thing I would say isit's not your job to fix
everybody's problems.
Sometimes I like to start theconversation by asking do you
(05:07):
need my help fixing something ordo you just want me to listen?
That way we get all our cardson the table and I kind of know
what my role is in theconversation Never a bad thing
to ask.
The third thing is clear yourmind.
Stop thinking about what youneed to say and just listen.
If I'm so preoccupied coming upwith a response something
(05:28):
clever, something, some kind ofsegue I miss the story and I
can't respond very authentically.
I would also suggest deletingall platitudes and cliches from
your mind.
Immerse yourself in the storyand let the responses be genuine
and heartfelt.
The last thing people want tohear when they're telling you,
(05:49):
especially a very personal oremotional story, is some
platitude about.
Well, you know, everythingworks out for the best, not
really helpful, it's just aspace filler, and usually that
we'll talk more about this,right Is?
It's more about my level ofcomfort than the actual person
that I'm listening to.
You need to remember thatemotions such as crying are
(06:11):
natural and therapeutic in andof themselves.
Also, you don't need to doanything to that.
It is just a person kind ofworking through their things.
When you analyze tears, youfind that the tears that come
from when you hurt yourselfphysically mostly saline, salt
water, tears that come duringstress because of emotional
(06:33):
reasons tend to have a lot ofstress hormones in them.
So it is therapeutic just tolet people cry.
Nothing again.
Nothing you have to do to fixthat.
Another thing I would suggest,when you're listening, is to
remember that silence is golden.
It always has been.
You don't have to fill everysecond with noise.
(06:54):
Ten seconds of silence andsitting there with a thought or
an emotion can be an amazingthing.
Silence and sitting there witha thought or an emotion can be
an amazing thing.
Rachel Naomi Remen once said"perhaps the most important thing
we ever give each other is ourattention.
A loving silence often has farmore power to heal and to
connect than mostwell-intentioned words.
(07:16):
So sitting in silence is abeautiful thing and you know
what.
It's a pretty easy thing to do.
A little bit uncomfortable.
I might suggest, if it's thathard for you to sit there and
not say anything.
Count to 10 in your head.
Slowly It'll give your brainsomething to do instead of
focusing on what you're notsaying.
And finally, to be a goodlistener.
(07:39):
I might suggest being aware tonot make it about you when we
get into uncomfortableconversations sometimes.
I want to introduce a nicesegue way .
I want to tell one of my ownstories, personal anecdotes that
might lend to it.
Ultimately, what I'm doing ischanging the subject to
(07:59):
something a little morecomfortable, something that it's
easier for me to sit with.
Don't do that, just listen.
The one thing all these pointshave in common is that they're
about us, not the person to whomwe're listening.
They're often about our owncomfort levels and what we feel
we can emotionally tolerate.
Once you take the pressure offyourself, you can relax and you
(08:23):
can just be there for somebodyelse and show up authentically.
I think you will find the lessyou do, the more benefits you
will see, both from the personyou're listening to and for
yourself.
You'll enjoy the conversation alot more.
This takes us into the thirdelement of this three-pronged
approach.
After we have successfullylistened, what do we do then?
(08:45):
How do we engage the otherperson meaningfully?
So here's five ideas on how torespond more authentically in
conversations, and I think firstand foremost is you need to be
curious.
No-transcript people respondbetter.
(09:05):
They get it.
Sometimes this takes a momentto consider the question, but
people tend to pick up on thatauthenticity.
In many conversations, we tendto ask our loved ones,
especially our children,questions we already know the
answers to, and that causes aproblem, because if we already
know the answer, well then whylisten?
Right, I've already got myresponse generated.
(09:26):
So, for example, what is thegoal in asking your child why
didn't you do your homework?
This, of course, is a no-winscenario, especially for the kid
.
No answer is going to besatisfactory for you either.
So is the question really tounderstand why the work wasn't
done?
Of course not.
It's a springboard to give me,the parent, the high ground.
(09:49):
To pontificate on all themerits of time management, to
impart some good life lessonsprioritization, the value of off
the cliff, would you Well?
That didn't work for me either,and as adults we still might be
stuck in some of theineffective communication loops
(10:16):
that we had and we learned fromour parents.
In fact, the older I get, themore I sound like my parents and
the more phrases that kind ofmaterialize out of nowhere.
Here's the underlying themeabout listening to someone,
though you need to be curious.
Be curious about the person,the topic, the event, the
emotions, the relationship.
When we're curious, we'reauthentic and others pick up on
(10:40):
that.
That leads to the next pointListen to understand, not refute
or respond.
Remain open to whatever theanswer is.
Don't anticipate.
Have you ever met anyone whofinished your sentences for you?
Did you feel heard?
Because half the time the helpis incorrect.
(11:02):
The third thing I might suggestis ask open-ended questions.
These are the questions thatcan't be answered with a simple
yes or no.
They invite more content.
So instead of asking, did youhave fun at the park, you might
say tell me about the park todayor what was the best thing
about the park today.
That invites a lot morecuriosity into the conversation
(11:26):
and really ask the person toshare more.
Number four is don't ask whyquestions, especially with kids.
But none of us enjoy a whyquestion.
This almost immediately putsyou on the defensive and,
frankly, comes across ascondescending, because when I
hear why did you X, Y or Z?
(11:46):
I automatically have to defendmyself.
That really kind of shuts downa conversation, so not a good
way to respond.
Finally, if you really feelstuck and you're just in that
conversation, you're like Idon't know what to say to that.
There's a thing called mirroring, right, we all have these
(12:06):
mirror neurons in our brainwhere you find that people kind
of get synced up inconversations when they're
really connected.
We can kind of force that alittle bit, though, and use that
to our advantage.
If someone says something like,I've just had a really, really
terrible day and you don't knowwhat to say.
You can just choose one ofthose words and repeat it back
(12:27):
in the form of a question.
So all you would have to say isa really tough day and people,
amazingly, will just keeptalking.
They feel heard because you'verepeated the word back to them.
It's their words and it alsoshows a little bit of curiosity
that you want to know a littlebit more about that.
(12:48):
So I think that's an importantthing to kind of remember when
we when, like why are we tryingto engage people?
I think the goal is really togive others the space and the
opportunity to talk aboutthemselves, to be heard and
understood.
Now, this is not an always, notalways an easy thing to do.
As we've said, it takesintentionality and work to
understand other people'sperspectives and points of view,
(13:10):
but it almost always guaranteesa connection with anyone.
So, again, the underlying themehere is to be curious.
When we're curious, we canstart listening, to understand,
not refute or to respond.
We throw in a few open-endedquestions, not refute or to
(13:30):
respond.
We throw in a few open-endedquestions, not yes or no, but
more content driven.
We don't ask why questions,because again, that puts people
on the defensive.
And finally, we can do somemirroring.
We can reflect back a couple ofwords, say back a couple of
words that the speaker has usedto again prompt them to talk
more.
I would encourage you to tryjust a couple of these ideas and
see if you don't notice adifference on how you feel and
(13:53):
how others respond.
I know there's a lot of otherideas out there.
I would love to get somefeedback from you on what things
work for you to connect withother people.
What things don't work is alsoa great learning point as well.
Leave us a comment, happy tocheck those out and share with
other people.
Thanks for joining me, have anamazing day and we'll catch you
(14:16):
next time on the Unscripted Mind.
David Augsburger once said, being heard is so
close to being loved that forthe average person, they are
almost indistinguishable.
We assume listening andcommunicating with others is a
simple thing maybe for some, butfor many it isn't anything but
intuitive.
Today, on the Unscripted Mind,I'll address the things that
(00:23):
make communication difficult andwhat we can do to listen better
, and give you five tangiblethings you can do to improve how
well you listen.
Welcome to the Unscripted Mindpodcast, where our goal is to
give you fresh perspectives,practical insights and tools you
(00:46):
can use to give you morechoices, increase your awareness
and have better control of yourfeelings, reactions and
behaviors.
My name is Jim Cunningham andI'm a licensed professional
counselor, and today we're goingto discuss the one thing that
you can do to improverelationships, feel more
connected with others and reducea ton of stress on yourself.
(01:08):
That one thing is effectivelistening.
I can't begin to tell you howmany clients have asked how to
better connect with theirco-workers, kids, parents,
spouses, other people in theirlives, but I also have an equal
number that report quote neverfeeling heard, and of those who
have reported never feelingheard, I haven't met one who
(01:30):
wasn't pretty pissed off aboutit.
It's a very common problem onboth sides of the fence the
hearing and the being heard.
Today we'll focus on the hearing.
Again, this is a verychallenging problem for many,
many people, especially if thetopic is emotional or deeply
personal.
It's not something that comesnaturally to most of us.
(01:51):
So to tackle this problem,there's kind of a three-pronged
approach I'm looking at.
The first thing is what are thethings that get in the way of
effective listening?
The second part is how do wejust listen better?
And then the third part is howdo we just listen better?
And then the third part is howdo we respond better?
As somebody once said, once Iknow better, I can do better.
(02:11):
So what are some of the waysthat are?
What are some of the problemsthat get in the way of effective
listening?
Well, first of all, I thinknumber one we may not be
interested in what people haveto say, and as much as we're
interested in telling them whatwe want them to hear.
I'll say that again we are notas interested in what people
have to say as much as we areinterested in telling them what
(02:34):
we want them to hear.
This is particularly true withparents and children.
The second thing that gets inthe way is fear and anxiety.
We're often too concerned aboutour role in the conversation
and the other person becomessecondary or sometimes just
forgotten.
The third one I would say ispressure.
We feel pressure orresponsibility to fix something
(02:57):
instead of just enjoying theconversation.
The fourth thing that gets inthe way is, honestly, our
comfort levels.
They won't allow it.
It's uncomfortable to seesomeone crying or hurting or in
need.
Sometimes it's justoverwhelming for some people.
The fifth thing is it's justeasier not to.
Frankly, it's more simple justto keep the conversation
(03:21):
superficial.
We can duck and dodge and wecan change the topic.
We can distract ourselves bytalking about tangential things.
Now, most of these things arenot things we are actively aware
of.
The fact that I am distracted,the fact that I'm not
comfortable, I'm just notinterested in the conversation.
(03:41):
Sometimes it seems that simple,but I think there's a lot of
other things going on sometimesfor us that we may not be aware
of.
It's always good to kind of justpause and kind of understand
that, Maybe ask a few questionsof yourself about what is it
that's making this conversationdifficult and why is it hard for
me to pay attention?
So listening, like most thingsis a skill that needs to be
(04:01):
practiced.
Often just removing some of theobstacles is enough, and here
are some things to remember whenyou're listening.
So this is kind of the secondpart here.
I think if you try a couple ofthese things, automatically
things will get easier for youand you'll feel a lot less
stress and pressure as thelistener.
So the first thing I would saytake a deep breath, relax and
(04:25):
just listen.
Never forget that lettingsomeone talk is therapeutic in
and of itself.
There's nothing you need to doto add to it.
I can't tell you how manyclients have shown up in my
office and just gotten stuff outemotionally, saying things
they've never said beforegetting things out of their head
(04:46):
Again, nothing you can do toadd to that.
In and of itself it is verytherapeutic.
So take a deep breath, relaxand just listen and enjoy the
story.
The second thing I would say isit's not your job to fix
everybody's problems.
Sometimes I like to start theconversation by asking do you
(05:07):
need my help fixing something ordo you just want me to listen?
That way we get all our cardson the table and I kind of know
what my role is in theconversation Never a bad thing
to ask.
The third thing is clear yourmind.
Stop thinking about what youneed to say and just listen.
If I'm so preoccupied coming upwith a response something
(05:28):
clever, something, some kind ofsegue I miss the story and I
can't respond very authentically.
I would also suggest deletingall platitudes and cliches from
your mind.
Immerse yourself in the storyand let the responses be genuine
and heartfelt.
The last thing people want tohear when they're telling you,
(05:49):
especially a very personal oremotional story, is some
platitude about.
Well, you know, everythingworks out for the best, not
really helpful, it's just aspace filler, and usually that
we'll talk more about this,right Is?
It's more about my level ofcomfort than the actual person
that I'm listening to.
You need to remember thatemotions such as crying are
(06:11):
natural and therapeutic in andof themselves.
Also, you don't need to doanything to that.
It is just a person kind ofworking through their things.
When you analyze tears, youfind that the tears that come
from when you hurt yourselfphysically mostly saline, salt
water, tears that come duringstress because of emotional
(06:33):
reasons tend to have a lot ofstress hormones in them.
So it is therapeutic just tolet people cry.
Nothing again.
Nothing you have to do to fixthat.
Another thing I would suggest,when you're listening, is to
remember that silence is golden.
It always has been.
You don't have to fill everysecond with noise.
(06:54):
Ten seconds of silence andsitting there with a thought or
an emotion can be an amazingthing.
Silence and sitting there witha thought or an emotion can be
an amazing thing.
Rachel Naomi Remen once said"perhaps the most important thing
we ever give each other is ourattention.
A loving silence often has farmore power to heal and to
connect than mostwell-intentioned words.
(07:16):
So sitting in silence is abeautiful thing and you know
what.
It's a pretty easy thing to do.
A little bit uncomfortable.
I might suggest, if it's thathard for you to sit there and
not say anything.
Count to 10 in your head.
Slowly It'll give your brainsomething to do instead of
focusing on what you're notsaying.
And finally, to be a goodlistener.
(07:39):
I might suggest being aware tonot make it about you when we
get into uncomfortableconversations sometimes.
I want to introduce a nicesegue way .
I want to tell one of my ownstories, personal anecdotes that
might lend to it.
Ultimately, what I'm doing ischanging the subject to
(07:59):
something a little morecomfortable, something that it's
easier for me to sit with.
Don't do that, just listen.
The one thing all these pointshave in common is that they're
about us, not the person to whomwe're listening.
They're often about our owncomfort levels and what we feel
we can emotionally tolerate.
Once you take the pressure offyourself, you can relax and you
(08:23):
can just be there for somebodyelse and show up authentically.
I think you will find the lessyou do, the more benefits you
will see, both from the personyou're listening to and for
yourself.
You'll enjoy the conversation alot more.
This takes us into the thirdelement of this three-pronged
approach.
After we have successfullylistened, what do we do then?
(08:45):
How do we engage the otherperson meaningfully?
So here's five ideas on how torespond more authentically in
conversations, and I think firstand foremost is you need to be
curious.
No-transcript people respondbetter.
(09:05):
They get it.
Sometimes this takes a momentto consider the question, but
people tend to pick up on thatauthenticity.
In many conversations, we tendto ask our loved ones,
especially our children,questions we already know the
answers to, and that causes aproblem, because if we already
know the answer, well then whylisten?
Right, I've already got myresponse generated.
(09:26):
So, for example, what is thegoal in asking your child why
didn't you do your homework?
This, of course, is a no-winscenario, especially for the kid
.
No answer is going to besatisfactory for you either.
So is the question really tounderstand why the work wasn't
done?
Of course not.
It's a springboard to give me,the parent, the high ground.
(09:49):
To pontificate on all themerits of time management, to
impart some good life lessonsprioritization, the value of off
the cliff, would you Well?
That didn't work for me either,and as adults we still might be
stuck in some of theineffective communication loops
(10:16):
that we had and we learned fromour parents.
In fact, the older I get, themore I sound like my parents and
the more phrases that kind ofmaterialize out of nowhere.
Here's the underlying themeabout listening to someone,
though you need to be curious.
Be curious about the person,the topic, the event, the
emotions, the relationship.
When we're curious, we'reauthentic and others pick up on
(10:40):
that.
That leads to the next pointListen to understand, not refute
or respond.
Remain open to whatever theanswer is.
Don't anticipate.
Have you ever met anyone whofinished your sentences for you?
Did you feel heard?
Because half the time the helpis incorrect.
(11:02):
The third thing I might suggestis ask open-ended questions.
These are the questions thatcan't be answered with a simple
yes or no.
They invite more content.
So instead of asking, did youhave fun at the park, you might
say tell me about the park todayor what was the best thing
about the park today.
That invites a lot morecuriosity into the conversation
(11:26):
and really ask the person toshare more.
Number four is don't ask whyquestions, especially with kids.
But none of us enjoy a whyquestion.
This almost immediately putsyou on the defensive and,
frankly, comes across ascondescending, because when I
hear why did you X, Y or Z?
(11:46):
I automatically have to defendmyself.
That really kind of shuts downa conversation, so not a good
way to respond.
Finally, if you really feelstuck and you're just in that
conversation, you're like Idon't know what to say to that.
There's a thing called mirroring, right, we all have these
(12:06):
mirror neurons in our brainwhere you find that people kind
of get synced up inconversations when they're
really connected.
We can kind of force that alittle bit, though, and use that
to our advantage.
If someone says something like,I've just had a really, really
terrible day and you don't knowwhat to say.
You can just choose one ofthose words and repeat it back
(12:27):
in the form of a question.
So all you would have to say isa really tough day and people,
amazingly, will just keeptalking.
They feel heard because you'verepeated the word back to them.
It's their words and it alsoshows a little bit of curiosity
that you want to know a littlebit more about that.
(12:48):
So I think that's an importantthing to kind of remember when
we when, like why are we tryingto engage people?
I think the goal is really togive others the space and the
opportunity to talk aboutthemselves, to be heard and
understood.
Now, this is not an always, notalways an easy thing to do.
As we've said, it takesintentionality and work to
understand other people'sperspectives and points of view,
(13:10):
but it almost always guaranteesa connection with anyone.
So, again, the underlying themehere is to be curious.
When we're curious, we canstart listening, to understand,
not refute or to respond.
We throw in a few open-endedquestions, not refute or to
(13:30):
respond.
We throw in a few open-endedquestions, not yes or no, but
more content driven.
We don't ask why questions,because again, that puts people
on the defensive.
And finally, we can do somemirroring.
We can reflect back a couple ofwords, say back a couple of
words that the speaker has usedto again prompt them to talk
more.
I would encourage you to tryjust a couple of these ideas and
see if you don't notice adifference on how you feel and
(13:53):
how others respond.
I know there's a lot of otherideas out there.
I would love to get somefeedback from you on what things
work for you to connect withother people.
What things don't work is alsoa great learning point as well.
Leave us a comment, happy tocheck those out and share with
other people.
Thanks for joining me, have anamazing day and we'll catch you
(14:16):
next time on the Unscripted Mind.
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