Alien Close Encounters with Warren Agius

On this episode of The Unseen Paranormal Podcast, we welcome back UFO researcher and author, Warren Agius. We discuss several cases from his new book "Close Encounters: Exploring the Mysteries of Alien Abduction" and how these cases are hard to disprove when examining all the evidence. We also chat about J. Allen Hynek's scale and what exactly are close encounters of the 3rd and 4th kind? Both of Warren's books are available at the links below or you can contact him through the social media links and grab a signed copy!

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/warren%20agius
 
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=warren+agius&crid=3JZ40Q8AY9JJT&sprefix=warren+agius%2Caps%2C170&ref=nb_sb_noss_1
 
https://www.facebook.com/warren.agius

https://linktr.ee/warren.agius?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaYU47m5okFwrtpjXr0Irk8-VC4EQeSdCvxGZWWj_4jQlO4ysT0sWiyR9aw_aem_SvkQJ3nUTv64h3GJFvypRw 

https://www.instagram.com/warren.agius/

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Join us as we dive into the history, hauntings, and
high strangers of the world to try to better understand
the paranormal. I will be your guide. I am paranormal
researcher and investigator Eric Freeman Simms. Welcome to the Unseen
Paranormal Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. Thank

(00:25):
you for tuning in. Really appreciate y'all. Ten having a
blast of season five. Here episode one seventy six, we
have a returning guest, one of my favorite UFO researchers,
mister Warner Juice, is on the show for the third
time now and if you haven't listened to other two
episodes with him, go check that out, and go check
out his first book, Evidence of Extraterrestrials, over forty cases
prove aliens have visited Earth, and his new book, which

(00:48):
is hot off the presses, is called Close Encounters, Exploring
the Mysteries of Alien Abductions. And so we're going to
dive into some of those cases with him, and I
love how warren Writes's books. They are very matter of
fact based cases and he lays out a pretty good
case of people actually coming into contact with aliens and

(01:09):
extraterrestrials and indimentional beings where you want to believe they are,
and also some people who have been abducted by them.
As usual, I have all of his links in the
show notes, so you can go grab a copy of
his books yourself and go check out the other two
episodes to do with one. Like I said, the first
one was on his first book. The second episode we
did last year was on the UFO Disclosure, and today
we're talking Close Encounters with third and fourth come so

(01:31):
sit back, relax and enjoy the show. We'll talk to
you next time. Hey, Warren, welcome back to the show.
Thanks for joining us today.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Thank you for having me. It's always nice being on
the show. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, I always like having you on and love the books.
You have a new book out well as we're recording this.
It comes out tomorrow, but by the time this comes out,
it'll be out. Yeah. And of course we had you
on a while back for your first book, Evidence of Extraterrestrials,
Over forty cases Everything Aliens have a Visit to Earth.
I could talk today, and the new book, Close Encounter,

(02:04):
is exploring the mysteries of alien abductions exactly yes, yeah,
and I have not because I like to be factual,
and that's why I love your books, because you're very
scientific based and factual. And so I haven't really approached
the other than when me and you've talked a couple
of times. I haven't really approached the abduction thing because
there's a lot of craziness out there.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Of course, in that exactly exactly, Yes, I was.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
So excited that you're writing a writing a book about
abductions and like close encounters. So what is different with
this book as opposed to your first book?

Speaker 2 (02:37):
So firstly, before I first, before I started even writing books,
I had this idea of what if I wrote a
couple of books, and in these books, I explore the
U full phenomenon from all perspectives, right, And of course
you need to start from you are foll sitings. That's
the basic premise of the phenomenon, and that's where the

(02:59):
first book comes in. In the first book, I explore
the most important U of FO sightings that we've had
in history, paying attention to those citings that perhaps not
many people know about. And yeah, that was the first book.
At the time of writing the first book, I had

(03:21):
enough material to write the second book. The original plan
was for the first book to be divided into two
your foll Sightings and alien abductions, but it turned out
to be very very long, which I myself would not
have read, right, Yeah, So I said said, yeah, let's
let's create this into a different book. And that's where

(03:45):
the material came it came from. I explored the most
compelling close encounters of the third kind and alien abductions.
The book per Se is divided into two parts. The
first part is explores close encounters of the third kind,
which is when there is a uf BO siting and

(04:09):
the person is in close proximity to the aircraft, but
there is no abduction happening. So that is the first
part of the book. The second part of the book
I explore alien abductions. And I myself was very very
hesitant on which cases I explore. Right as we all know,

(04:32):
we all know Georgia Domsky, we all know Billy Meyer,
and these individuals have quite preposterous stories. And I separate
myself entirely from these cases because it is these cases
that bring skepticism and negative attention to the phenomenon, and

(04:53):
I didn't want for once I wanted alien abductions to
be taken seriously, and there are a lot of compelling
alien abduction cases which are not very famous. Everyone knows
about Betty and Barne, Hill, Whitely, Stree, Bert Travis, Walton,
fantastic cases, right, and they are included in the book.

(05:15):
But these are far from the most compelling alien abduction cases,
and unfortunately, in the majority of UOFOE and alien books,
these are the cases that are covered. So I wanted
to create something that is a little bit different and
it gives the reader a comprehensive study on alien abductions,

(05:39):
and I covered cases which are perhaps less known, such
as the Stefan Michella case, the Aerial school siting Robert Taylor.
These are all cases that are less well known but
are just as if not even more compelling and convincing
than the most famous ones. But I wanted to create

(06:03):
I want to go in a very clear direction that I,
in no shape or form do I believe that all
alien abduction cases and stories are real. And even in
the cases I do explore in the book, I provide
a lot of skepticism and and alternative theories. I do
not at any point say this was most definitely an

(06:25):
alien abduction case. There are a few cases where you
know that the story does point toward towards the direction.
But I do offer a lot of skepticism because it's
important to be factual. It's important to be objective when
talking about such an important phenomenon.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Right, Yeah, And I love how you how you light
out the evidence, the different evidence for and against and
and basically you know each each one you have. Okay,
what is the military or the police's explanation, or the
presses explanation or anybody else who investigated, And then what
is the evidence that supports what the person is claiming

(07:06):
to have been abducted? Yeah? I really like how you
break that down.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, and many times there is a rational explanation. I mean,
if we look at perhaps we'll go into certain cases later,
but if we look at certain certain UFO sightings or
for other cases such as, for example, Billy Meyer, there's
always data which proves that the case was not credited.

(07:33):
And I only included cases which I personally believe are
very compelling. By no shape or form do I believe
that every case I cover is one hundred percent in
alien abduction. But I do believe that out of the
cases I cover, I genuinely believe that there is a
compelling argument for the alien abduction theory.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, and there the Robert Taylor when you had mentioned,
was when I had never heard of, and I think, yeah,
he's a pretty compelling one as far as the evidence. Yeah,
and going against So what what kind of is the
story with Robert Taylor.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, Yeah, I'm glad we're actually talking about it because,
like I said, it's one of the cases that goes
quite under the radar, but I personally find it. I
find it to be one of the most convincing cases.
So Robert Taylor's story, it goes back to nineteen seventy
nine and this place char This the story takes place
in Scotland. So Robert Taylor, he was an ex army man.

(08:37):
He was he fought in the Battle of Normandy, he
fought in the Battle of Dunkirk, and in his later
years he became a forest free worker and so there
was quite a different different style. On one hand, he
went he was an army worker, he fought in wars

(08:58):
and then he started working in forests. The encounter itself
took place on the ninth of November at that time
he was sixty years old and one of one of
the tasks he had was that he goes in a
forest three area and he makes sure that there are
no sheep astrae. He makes sure that everything is in order.

(09:21):
And so it was a Friday morning and he had
his dog with him. The dog was an Irish red setter.
Her name was Lara, and they were walking along the
path and then they reach a clearing and then this
clearing they see aside that he essentially would would he

(09:43):
could never forget because this was the beginning of certainly
a transformative experience. In the middle of the clearing, he
saw a disc shaped u of foward this shape aircraft,
and it was a typically UFO. It was disc shaped,
it was silver, was metallic, and it had the typical
dom structure that we see. Apart from that, most importantly

(10:07):
around its circumference, it had a lot of these portholes
and antennae looking spikes, so it was very conspicuous. It
was very obvious, and at first it was a shock.
He didn't know what he was looking at. But then
the sighting became even earlier. At one point the disc

(10:29):
completely the materialized. It became invisible, and Robert could see
the trees that the disc was initially obstructing, so it
became completely invisible, and after a few seconds it's the
disc career appeared again. It th rematerialized, so that ruled
out the majority of rational explanations. It could not have

(10:51):
been a helicopter, obviously, it could not well any rational
explanition that he could think of. It was completely disputed.
But this was just the beginning. As the disc materialized,
these spheres fell from from the disc and they started
approaching Robert's position. The spheres were very similar to the

(11:14):
aircraft's characteristics. It was the spheres were silver shape, they
had antennae looking spikes around them, and as they reached
Robert's position, the two spheres attached to his leg and
they started dragging him towards the disc. And it was

(11:36):
at that moment that Robert obviously felt a very sharp
pain and he started smelling a very specific odor it's
like when a vehicle's brake linings are burning. And he
also started tasting a very foul, foul taste, and then

(11:57):
he lost consciousness for a couple of minutes. Around twenty
minutes paused when Robert regained consciousness, and he only regained
consciousness because his dog, Lara was tugging at his tugging
at his shirt. And when he woke up, he was
completely unaware of where he was. He was completely disorientated.

(12:19):
His truck was close by, but he was too lethargic
to walk, so he had to crawl there. And when
he opened his truck, the radio communications where we're down.
So the only option he had was essentially to walk
home because the truck was caught in a in a mud.
It was caught in mud essentially, so he could not

(12:41):
back it out, and he was too lethargic to do so.
And his house was not too far away anyway, So
as he walked home, his wife opened and she was
in shock. She was completely in shock. She thought that
he had been robbed. And the first word that the
first sentence that Robert uttered, was that he had been
attacked by a spaceship. In fact, the name of the

(13:02):
chacter is attacked by a spaceship. It's a direct quotation
from his report which he gave. Anyway, Roberts physical health
then gradually sort of deteriorated. There was a forensic analysis
as well. And what is so interesting about the forensic

(13:27):
analysis is that when they went to the site at
the Dutchment Law where where the encounter took place, they
could see caterpillar tracks and caterpillar tracks. At first, I
was like, I wasn't aware of what caterpillar tracks, but
they are, like, they're very similar to what attractor attractors
tracks look like.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, yeah, like a tank tracks or something like that.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Exactly exactly, And these caterpillar tracks were slowly in the
middle of a clearing, so they weren't leading to or
from anywhere. And the only explainasion there was was that
dismiss machinery which was used or whatever it was, it
had been dropped, it had made a vert vertical descent
and a vertical ascent. It didn't be too or from anywhere,

(14:11):
and there were a lot of markings around around the
ground which which matched up a lot with Robert's police reports.
There were there were several detectives. For example, detective Detective
Walk was one of the officers on the scene and
he took photographs and measurements and he could see that
the lending marks were identical. They were each ten feet long,

(14:35):
so they were completely symmetrical ten feet long a foot apart,
so a foot wide and seven feet apart. They were
completely completely symmetrical. Apart from that, these tracks were surrounded
by round spherical depressions, which once again they they match
up with Robert's story, and the forensic analysis, which which

(14:56):
also focused on Robert's clothing, could see that there was
a very specific tear, and without going into the specifics
of where the there was and where that there wasn't,
the forensic analysis concluded that the tails were not caused
by any burning and that they were caused by Robert

(15:18):
having been pulled upwards, which coincides once again with Robert's
theory and anyway from their own. Robert obviously did not
want to talk about it to anyone, and in fact,
the only reason that we know about this case was
that it was leaked, and it was leaked by a
colleague of Robert who had went to the site with

(15:38):
his boss. From there on, he did not want to
talk about it at any point, but his story remained unchanged.
His story was that he had seen this what he
referred to as a spaceship, and what he saw was
the truth. So then certain skeptics came forward and they

(16:02):
started giving several theories. One of the theories that I
considered the book and the book I consider three theories, right.
The first theory is that he suffered a stroke. The
second theories that he suffered a seizure, and the third
theory is the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Like I said in the
beginning of the episode, I like to give attention to

(16:25):
each and every hypothesis. At no point do I try
to prove the et ceteristrial hypothesis, but it's good to
explore each and every possible theory. The different theory was
that he suffered a stroke, a transient stroke, and the
symptoms are similar the symptoms so Robert experienced a headache

(16:46):
and dram out he lost consciousness, and these are indeed
symptoms of a stroke. But this theory does not take
into account the physical evidence. Where did the lending marks
come from? The tears and on Robert's clothing, These are
all unaccounted for, So once can this theory does not

(17:09):
really hold through. Then there is a very preposterous theory
is that he suffered a seizure. There's this well known skeptic,
his name is Stuart Campbell, and he stated that as
Robert was walking through the woods, he saw a bright
venus in the sky, and because of the intensity of

(17:30):
the light, he suffered the seizure. This this seri is
obviously preposterous for many reasons. It was daylight outside, and
even if you know where venus is in the sky,
it would be very difficult to locate it. But alas,
even if we consider this theory, this theory does not
take into account once again, the lending marks, the physical
evidence which leaves us with the extraterrestrial hypothesis, which has

(17:55):
a number of factors which support it. For instance, there
is the landing marks, and the lending marks are quite
weird and of themselves, because if Robert had staged the
entire thing, then there would be landing marks leading to
and from somewhere. They wouldn't just appear in the middle

(18:15):
of a clearing and then just disappear. Apart from that,
there is the mark the markings on the clothing if
he had been pulled upwards. Some sort of machinery had
to be present for it for Robert to have been
pulled upwards. And apart from that, the most compelling evidence
is that everyone around him mew Robert and at no

(18:39):
point was he a fan of the Dufo UFOs or
any abductions, and it was very very out of character.
So everyone was quite surprised when he kept insisting that
he was attacked by a spaceship. You know. His wife
was saying, no, you were mugged. His manager was also

(19:00):
pushing for that idea. They were convinced that something bad
had happened. But from nineteen seventy nine until his death,
Robert's story it's remained unchanged, if you can remain completely unchanged.
And he kept consisting that the aircraft was most certainly
not from this planet because what kind of aircraft fits

(19:23):
in in those criteria. And in the police report which
I obtained, the detective in walk he ends it in
a very interesting sentence. He said that, to quote him,
I have no doubt that something landed there. What it was,
I have no idea. Forty years on, it still hasn't

(19:44):
been solved. So throughout all this time, it's no one
knows what truly happened except Robert himself. It's a very
very interesting case, and a lot of factors do point
towards the extetersial HYPOTHESI and I do believe that if
this phenomenon is real, then this case is one of

(20:06):
the most compelling ones. It has a lot of evidence
supporting it, and the characteristics line up with what we
know with what we know of about alien abductions.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, and his clothes were actually forensically examined by the
police department, and they're the ones that said that it
looked like, you know, the tears, all the tears in
his clothes were from him being pulled up. That's the
only way they could.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Have been made exactly the analysis it was. They examined
it extensively. They stated that the tears and the holes,
they could not have been caused by burning and they
could only have been caused by a strong mechanical pull.
So either Robert was genuinely his testimony is genuine or

(20:57):
as there must have been a machinery which he had
planned there, Yeah, which put him upwards, which you know,
it doesn't make much.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Sense, Yeah, because I mean where are the rest of
the tracks. I mean, he had to get the machinery in.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
There and out of there exactly exactly. And there's also
the missing time period which we don't know what actually
happened when Robert lost consciousness. He lost consciousness for around
twenty minutes, and the missing time period is one of
the stages of building in productions, So that does also

(21:34):
a line up with the story.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah that I found that one just fascinating, especially with
the spiked spheres that came and attached to his legs.
Never never heard any other story like that with with
the alien abductions or the close encounters.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, there are some similar ones that have been coming
out lately. I know David Polid's had one on his
latest documentary about these people seeing a sort of drone
producting cows across the valley.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
And you know what's interesting is that when I when
I first wrote these chapters, it was some some years
and months and months ago, but then in some some
years ago I believe it was last year or the
year before the d i A, they published the paper
which explores the the actual paper, it's called Anomalous Acute

(22:31):
and Subacute Field Effects of Human Biological Issues, which basically
it means it explored how humans have been affected by UFOs.
And in one of the in this paper, which I
quote in the book, it explores how many military officers,

(22:53):
when they came into contact with U foes. They experienced
a lot of immediate and intern after facts after facts,
so within seventy two hours they started experiencing medical ailments.
And as I read that paper, it was quite a

(23:15):
Eureka moment because I realized that the cases I write
about they actually match up with what this d I
a paper states.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, like, I'm with you that that's a really good case.
And once again I always go back to this guy
didn't gain anything out of this. He didn't have anything again,
he never asked for money, nothing like that. He didn't
even want it leaked to the press. Like you said,
it got leaked out to the press.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Exactly exactly, and Eric port Center, what's what proves that
point is that he did not want to talk about
it at all. And this is one of the things
I look out for right when we're writing about it
in aductions. In the introduction of the of the second
part of the book, I discussed what makes any Inlian
abduction pace credible? There there are thous and hundreds of

(24:01):
valin abduction cases, hundreds, right, So what makes a case credible?
And I use I use three factors to prove whether
I believe this case is credible. Or not. And the
first one is the evidence. Let's look at the evidence,
is their physical evidence, for example, lending marks. Did the

(24:23):
person suffer any immediate or intermediates after effects? Then the
person's intention. Did the person want to, you know, cash
in on his story? Did you want to publicize his story?
Because if he did, then I'm not saying that if
someone writes and you know, a memoir like Kisber did,

(24:45):
I'm not saying that that immediately means that the case
is a hoax. I'm not saying that. But if a
person uses the case, you know, to gain fame or
to gain wealth, then that could be an indicator. And
the third factor, I use the individual's health. Many times,
in the most credible cases, the individual's health declines, and
it declines very rapidly, very very rapidly. And Robert Taylor's

(25:11):
case it fits in the three factors. It has a
lot of evidence, it has a lot of physical evidence.
The person's intentions are unequivocal. Everyone says that he was
not someone who would make such a story up. And
apart from that, his health did deteriorate immediately after his encounter.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, fascinating case. Another one that has always kind of
caught my attention that I don't think is as widespread
as like Travis Walton and Whitley Streamer. Is the Soakora,
New Mexico incident with Lanni's of Mora And Yeah, I
find it very credible because he was a he's a
police officer.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
He's a police officer. Yeah, just doing his job exactly,
and police officers are are trained to be the most
credible eye witnesses. And Lonnie Zamora's case I always link
it with a case which took place a year before
in France. Let me start by discussing Zamora's case a

(26:10):
little bit, because it is very interesting and I do
believe that it's one of the most credible cases out there.
Zamora's case, it took place in nineteen sixty four and
he was a sergeant police officer. He was out in SoCoRo,
out on duty, and he was actually in a police
chase at that point. He was in a car chase.

(26:31):
But then in the background he saw this massive flame.
It was large, you know, a large orange flame, and
it was just right next to a dynamite check. So
he thought, okay, one plus one means that it probably exploded.
So he started driving towards that. He ditched the car
car chase, and he he started driving towards the dynamite check.

(26:55):
At the top of the hill. Looking down on the
dynamite check, he saw this, the silver object with two
what looked like people standing next to it. So he said, okay,
most probably there was an incident, so I'll just go
drive and assist them. And in fact, he radioed in

(27:16):
he told them that I am assisting in a vehicle,
you know, incident. So he started driving closer, and he
started driving closer, and as he reached closer to the object,
he saw that this was not a car, and the
two people he had seen he had saw were not
people at all. In front of him was actually this

(27:39):
oval shaped object which looked just like the tic tac
that we are now speaking of from the USS minutes encounter.
It looked it looks just like a ticktack. Yeah, But
on the surface there's this weird insignia which is quite
difficult to describe.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
It was an inverted letter V with three lines running
across it. It doesn't make much sense as as I
described it, but I encourage the listeners to just Google
Lonizamora's uffhone and you'll see the insignea I'm talking about.
And it was that had these legs protruded and it

(28:20):
was landed perfectly on the ground, and just start next
to it. He saw these two figures which he described
as small adults. So small adults were large kids, that's
what he said. So he started. He saw them from afar,
and they were wearing these white overalls, completely white, and

(28:42):
at this point they were not aware of his position.
But after a few seconds, all of them noticed his
presence and they became immediately startled. And as they became startled,
they dashed in the aircraft. They completely disappeared. At that point,
Zamora exited the car and started a prom the position,
but then he heard this loud roar, which he taught, shit,

(29:07):
you know, the dynamite shack exploded, but it wasn't the place.
What happened was that this tic tackle the shaped aircraft
started ascending. It started completely ascending, and the loudness it
started becoming more intense, and then it just he was
expecting an explosion to happen at any point, it was

(29:29):
that intense, but the explosion never happened. He dropped to
the ground, covering his head. But then the aircraft just
sped away completely and disappeared. As it happened, he immediately
got out his sketch pad and he drew this this
aircraft that he saw, and he found the sergeant, Sergeant Chavez,

(29:51):
and he told him what happened. Within a couple of minutes,
they came to the scene and they saw that first
of all, there were many depressions on the ground. There
were four identical depressions on the ground, and in front
of these depressions were burned clumps of grass, which obviously
matches up with with the fire that he had seen.

(30:13):
And they at no point did they question his credibility.
I mean, everyone in the police station in Sohorrow, everyone
knew Nonizamor and they knew that he would not invent
such a hoax. Apart from that, let's keep in mind
that this was nineteen sixty four, so the topic of
UFOs was still quite a taboo and if you brought
it up, you most likely would be ridiculed. So he

(30:35):
has no intention of of you know, creating the story.
But alas then, since that there were no since the
case is so credible, the FBI. There was an FBI agent,
agent Barns. He was in the area and he investigated
the case as well, and he wrote this this report

(30:56):
where he states that he has no reason to believe
that this was a hoax, and that they noted the
depressions on the ground and there were no reasons to
believe that this was a conventional aircraft, but they wanted clarification.

(31:17):
So what they did was the first question was could
it have been a helicopter, But that was immediately ruled
out because they just called the attacker controllers and they
called also the air Force base, the surrounding air Force bases,

(31:38):
and they confirmed that there were no aircraft military aircraft
in the area around that time. The second question was
could it have been a lunar surveyor. So the Lunar
Surveyor is this project that it's this program that ran
in nineteen sixty six until nineteen sixty eight to explore

(32:02):
and to test soft landings on Earth, you know, before
the Moon landings. So this was a possibil clearly, but
the surveyor, the way it looks, it does not match
up with WHATNA saw. Apart from that, they confirmed with
Air Force bases that Air Force bases such as Right Patterson,

(32:26):
so it was one of the main ones. They confirmed
that it was not a lunar surveyor. This left them
with no explansions whatsoever. In fact, it's one of the
few cases, it is one of the few cases in
Project Blue Book which remained unidentified. However, and this is
a very important invention. It remained unidentified because they never

(32:49):
considered the extraterrestrial hypothesis. They never so if they had considered,
I mean, I don't, I never would expect them to
state yet this was most certainly another worldly encounter, because
you cannot even prove that scientifically. But the case remained unidentified.
But at no point that Project Glubok considered the fact

(33:11):
that it could be a genuine fall encounter. What not
many people know is that what makes this case so
credible is a very very similar case. So lone Zamora's
case took place in nineteen sixty four. The following year,
in July, the same exact case happened in France, in

(33:34):
Valentola in France. And then this is one of the
most this is one of the cases which not many
people know about. But the details and descriptions of the
aircraft is completely identical. I've described the case a little bit.
The case to place, like I said, in nineteen sixty five,

(33:55):
in this beautiful town. The town is called the Valenzola
and it is known for this lavender fields. As I
looked up pictures of it, it looked absolutely stunning. And
in July of nineteen sixty five, Morris Masse he was
a elevender grower. He had the field called Lolivol. He

(34:15):
had the field full of lavender elevender crops and on
this day, at around five in the morning, he was
smoking a cigarette before starting working when he heard this
buzzing noise. As he looked around, he saw this oval
shaped aircraft and at first he was not too shocked
because it was not uncommon for helicopters to land in fields.

(34:41):
So he started approaching the aircraft. But as he got closer,
he realized that this was certainly not a helicopter. Just
like Lonie Zamora. He saw an oval shaped aircraft with
protruding legs and it was landed perfectly. As he got closer,
he saw two humanoid figures. Let me say that he

(35:01):
described him as two boys of around eight years old,
and they were bent over picking up levender crops. At
this point, he did not consider the fact that these
were probably extraterrestrial. What was going through to Mass's mind
was that he was extremely angry because throughout that month
he had been finding his crops damaged the sprouts. He

(35:25):
was finding a lot of his levender crops with their
sprouts cut off, and obviously this was his livelihood. So
he thought he had caught the culprits, so he went
to confront them. But as he got closer to these
two humanoid beings. As he approached them, he was around
six meters away from them, one of them straightened up
and pointed this instrument towards him. And as the instrument

(35:49):
faced him, maurs Massel was completely paralyzed. He could not
move muscle, He was completely stuck to the ground. And
during these seconds he could take an all of their obscure,
eerie features. They were not children at all. Certainly they
were the height of around an eight year old child.

(36:11):
They had massive bald heads. He described them to quote
pumpkin like heads. Their eyes were large, slanted, almond shaped,
and they were grunting. They were creating these grunts from
around their stomachs, and that's how they were communicating with
each other, he taught. Anyway, after a few seconds, the

(36:33):
beings dashed into the aircraft, and just as Zamora had stated,
the aircraft ascended from the ground and sped away, sped away,
very far away, completely disappeared the story. Following this, he
went to his friend's cafe in town and he taught

(36:54):
him what happened, but he wasn't and his friend was
encouraging him to report it to the police, but Maris
Masse he did not want to at all. He knew
that he would be completely ridiculed and no one would
believe him, so he kept it to himself. But then
the following day, words started spreading around town, and it

(37:14):
was the police officers themselves who approached them, actually, and
they told him, listen, we know we've been hearing what happened.
Can you take us to the field. So he did,
and they found just what they found in New Mexico.
They found these cylindrical depressions that burned grass. So so

(37:34):
there was a lot of evidence. What is interesting, the
two things interested me the most about this case. So
up until his death, Maris mas said did not tell
anyone the full story. People kept him to interviewing him
year after year, and he said in one of the interviews,

(37:55):
he said that he will not tell anyone what happened,
and he has not told any one, including his wife,
what happened, and he insisted that he will take what
happened to the grave. Wow, so it made me question
what could have happened that was so significant, right, But
the most fascinating part is that the levender's the lavender

(38:19):
stopped growing in the circumference where this encounter took place
for many years after. The leavender did not grow there,
and the surrounding areas it did, but in the area
where they found the cylindrical depressions, it stopped growing for many,
many years later.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah, And that was one of the things I found fascinating,
was that only weeds continued to grow on that spots,
not lavender. And also he was only about a football
field away exactly, so there's no misidentification. I mean a
football field way you can see detail and stuff like
he described.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Absolutely absolutely, and even so, the only thing that he
could have misidentified it from it would be a helicopter,
but he did not have any rotors at all. There
was no visible propulsion system, and he had seen helicopters
before because helicopters did land on his field multiple times.
But this wasn't the case at all.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
In the.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Zakorro case. What I found interesting also was that the
military was highly involved with that case but never never
try to discredit it.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, because they knew who Zamora was. I mean,
when you have an individual, an normal individual, you know,
you can easily disprove him. It can easily bring up
factors to maybe redeicule him or discredit him. But when
you have a sergeant police officer and he's been in
the force for decades and everyone knows how credible he is,

(39:52):
you cannot do that. You cannot do that as as easily.
And it is one of the few cases that remained
unresolved from Project Bluebook.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah, and the government could have easily said, oh, yeah,
it was a it was a rover we were testing,
you know, for a trip to Moon or whatever, and
been done with it. But the fact that they did
not that too, and said no, that didn't happen, you know,
it was Yeah. I found that interesting because there's so
many cases where they come out with their own explanation,
you know, like Roswell with the weather balloon and all
that shit.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
You know.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah, the fact that they didn't come up with an
explanation and it remains unsolved, I think speaks a lot
of credibility to what he saw.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
It speaks all and it's happened in the perfect time,
you know. At that time, like I said, there was
this lunar surveyor program where they were testing for for
the moon landing, so they could easily have said it
was it over. It's sort of I mean not really,
but they do mech up a little bit. The characteristics.
You know, there's there's a vertical ascent and descent, so
they could have easily said, you know, this is what

(40:52):
you saw. At no point they tried to discredit him
or or argue against what he saw.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yeah. Yeah, and those those two cases, that's that's interesting too.
You're apart and very very similar from both witnesses.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
Yeah, and you know what's fascinating is that the one
encounter that happened in New Mexico, what's happened in a
different continent. But the descriptions match up perfectly. They will
drop perfectly, and you know, bothronism More and both Morisse
at no point that they try to capitalize on the encounter.

(41:26):
So they both you know, they could easily capitalized, you know,
but they both barely spoke about it. And of course
now the Loinzomra's cases, it's covered quite extensively, but Marsell isn't.
And you won't find a lot of information about Marsell.
In fact, together the information they're all in French. They're

(41:48):
all in French. You will barely find any official documents
in English because it's barely covered. So it fascinated me
that the two cases occurred just a year, you know,
after each other, and they match up perfectly, that they
are completely identical.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Yeah, and those are just to differentiate because we're going
to get into the close encounters of the four can
Those are close counters of the third count on Jay
Allen Hannick's.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Scale exactly exactly, So just to give a little bit
of context to the listeners. Heinek, who obviously investigated the
UFO phenomena for many years, he created this scale. In
the first book, I covered the first levels, in the
first five levels, so basically just UFHO sightings, right, But
there isn't this close proximity, so the observer and the

(42:39):
UFO are far away. The level six is close encounter
of the third kind, and just as the cases we've
discussed so far, they fall under that. Under that level,
they the person is in close proximity, but there isn't
a capture that there isn't in a deduction that comes

(42:59):
in eleven seven. Eleven seven is close encounters with the
fourth kind, where the individual is actually abducted by by
an alien entity.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
So let's get into some of the actual abductions. One
of the ones that I wasn't really familiar with. I've
heard of it, but wasn't really familiar with the all
of the details and as in depth as it was
was the Kentucky abductions. And I just had I just
had Geraldine Sutton Stiff on my show talking about the
Hopkinsville Goblin incident, the Kelly greenman Ah, and that's where

(43:30):
I bought. The haunted house that I bought is in Hopkinsville,
not far from where that happened. And I've actually become
friends with Geraldine. I don't know if you're familiar with that,
with that.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
Story, the little yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so interesting.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yeah, the Little men that attacked the family. Yea and Geraldine.
It was her father. She wasn't born yet because it
was in ninety fifty five, but it's her father and
grandmother and some of her other aunts and uncles that
experienced that attack from those little the little they're actually silver,
little silver men. But you don't see a whole lot
of not on that side of the state of the

(44:04):
Kentucky area, right, Yeah, on the western side. A lot
of stuff comes out of the eastern side of like, hell,
you're in that type stuff and goblins, Yeah, exactly. But yeah,
the Kentucky abductions in nineteen seventy six I found very interesting.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yeah, it's one of the cases that absolutely terrified me. Yeah, genuinely,
as I was thinking, like Jesus Christ, this is genuinely terrifying.
And there were many times that I just had to
take a step back a little bit because after so
many hours of reading and writing about it, it just
becomes a little bit too much. And it is one

(44:38):
of the most terrifying cases, not because of the description,
but because of what these women went through. And yes
that is plural women. There were four women, sorry, two women.
So what happened was it was the women are more

(45:00):
Louise and Elaine, and it was January nineteen seventy six
and they were celebrating Mona's birthday, so they just went
out to dinner together. Everything was fine. At the end
of their meal, it was around eleven o'clock at night,
they started driving back home. Louise was driving, Mona was

(45:21):
in the passenger's seat, and Lane was in the back seat.
They started driving, everything was fine, but then from the
passenger seat they saw Mona saw this red light very
you know, odd. It was bright, but she did not
think too much into it. It was simply a bright light.
It was moving erratically. She pointed out to the other

(45:45):
women and they said it's probably an aircraft landing or
as because they are bright met ride so they didn't
think too much into it. But then the aircraft sorry, sorry, delight,
It kept moving very erratically. It kept making sharp turns,
so they were even more curious. A few minutes down

(46:06):
the line, as they continued driving, this red light started
moving from side to side, and it got closer and
closer and closer until it was large enough for them
to have described it bigger than two houses conjoined together.
So it was massive. Apart from that, the light wasn't

(46:26):
The light was moving in relation to the vehicle. So
at one point, if the vehicle moves to the right,
then the light makes the same exact turn. It was
paralleling their movements. At one point the light was just
behind them, It was just behind the vehicle, and it

(46:47):
was moving completely erratically. And it was at that moment
that they saw that this wasn't just the light. It
was a disc shaped aircraft. It was massive, and it
had this ring of red lights around the circumference, and
beneath it was this warm yellow light just on its
on their belly. And at this point it was just

(47:08):
behind their vehicle, so they could see it from the mirror.
And at one point the disc just completely flips on
its belly, completely, does a complete one hundred and eighty degrees.
I think that, yeah, one hundred eight degrees. So it
was throwing its belly and obviously the women were shocked.

(47:32):
They were panicking. Did Louise you know, she's she started
losing control over the car, so she hit the brake
as hard as she possibly could, but the car would
not stop. They tried to lift the handbrake and the
car would just would not stop. It was moving at
eighty five miles an hour, and and the car was

(47:54):
completely out of control. So despite pushing and stepping on
on the they break the car just would not stop.
And that was the last thing they recall. Actually before that,
they saw this fog like light entered the vehicle. So
the cars started filling up with this fog, this burning fog.

(48:15):
They started feeling burn, a burning sensation, and then they
lost consciousness. They had no idea what what happened, so
sometimes had paused. Then around in hindsight, they realized that
an hour and and a half had passed. Around an
hour and senty minutes had passed, and they saw that
they were on the outskirts of Hustinville. It was eight

(48:37):
miles away. They had the recollection of how they had
gotten there, but an hour had passed. They were all
very perplexed and confused as to what had happened, and
they were also experiencing a lot of this burning sensation.
Their skin was burning, so they drove. They decided to
spend the night together, so they drove back to Louisiest

(49:00):
tailor in Liberty. It was one o'clock in the morning
and they were so shocked that they asked the assistance
of their neighbor Lowell. They told him the story, and
he could evidently see burn marks all around their bodies
and their eyes were irritated, irritated. Interestingly enough, each of

(49:21):
them found the mark on the back of their necks.
It was a few inches each of them. It was
in the identical, identical spot on their necks. Apart from that,
while Louise was in the bodroom washing up and trying
to wash her face to ease the burning sensation, she
realized that the minute hand on her watch was moving

(49:42):
as fast as the second hand. And this is a
common occurrence across close encounters. There's a lot of mechanical
medical anomalies that take place. So it was obvious that
something had happened. It was always that something unconventional had happened.
So they called the police to make a report. They

(50:02):
called the Navy station, but they told them that they
could not do anything about it, so they just gave up.
They dropped it. They hoped that they would get over it.
But what they did not know is that their phone
call to the Navy would soon lead to the public.
And this is how we know of their story. What
is upsetting is that their life took a very dark

(50:24):
turn following this. The burner marks and irritation did not
go away, and they started receiving endless phone calls from
news reporters inquiring about what happened. And you know, this
was one of the most credible cases that the press
could pick up on. I mean, three women stating that
they experienced the same exact full encounter and each of

(50:47):
the three women were burned by it. And just a
little segue the paper I talked about that Thedia published,
it stated that many maybe and army personnel, many of
them experienced the burner marks following the closing encounter to UFOs. So,

(51:09):
so anyway back to the story, and so they were
they had these burnermarks, the irritation, and it would just
would not subside. Actually they continued to deteriorate. They could
not sleep, they had this rapid weight loss. They were
completely overhelmed, and they simply did not know what happened.

(51:30):
Adding to the mechanical anomaly that I mentioned, the car
that they use on the night, Louise's car it started
explaining it started experiencing electrical failures that just were unexplainable.
So the light would suddenly stop working and she had
been pulled over multiple times. The minute hand on their watches,
what would just move as quickly as as the second

(51:53):
second arm. Apart from that, even the bedroom clock was
experiencing the same effect. What is bizarre, and perhaps this
is a stretch. But following that day, Louise owned the
pet parakeet and usually he was very warm, he sought
her presence a lot. But following that, each time Louise

(52:15):
entered the room, he would completely become hysterically. He would
start shouting and he would only calm down when Louise
left the room. After this, he died just a month after.
I'm not saying that this was a direct cause and effect,
but it is certainly ominous. Right So, the investigation what

(52:38):
took place? The women, they were desperate for answers. They
needed to know what happened. At no point did they
consider that they had been abducted. However, I need to
emphasize this point that at no point did they consider
that this was a U Offoe encounter. They did not.
Jerry Black from move On spoke to them and he
told them, listen, we can get your professionals, off, we

(53:01):
can get you speaking with mental health professionals because this
sounds like a genuine case. And then that's what happened
on the day. They expressed their concern for everyone, especially
Louise and Mona. Their health was deteriorating drastically and the
fact they experienced a breakdown shortly after this. And what

(53:24):
is interesting is that move On realized that this case
was very distressing for them and for this reason they
did not want to publicize their encounter without them having
felt better. So they told them, Missine, we'll continue the investigation,
but will simply not publicize or write about the encounter.

(53:47):
So it was the perfect scenario for them at the time.
You know, Jerry blackfirm move On spoke with Alan Heinek
and and he said that he told them miss and
the women are too distressed. They cannot go over what
happened that night. And they suggested the big undergo hypnotic regression.
And for the listeners out there, many abductees undergo hypnotic

(54:10):
regression to reveal what happened during the missing time period.
Just a little side mark. Missing time refers to the
point many people do not recall what happened. They do
not recall what happened when they get aducted. In this instance,
an hour and twenty minutes had passed by and they
did not know what happened. That is known as a

(54:31):
missing time, and hypnotic regression is used. They put the
client under eponotic sands. That way the client is not
too overwhelmed, and that's way they can access these repressed
memories that is being held from the conscious mind. So yeah,
it is used quite commonly in abduction cases because it

(54:52):
is very, very traumatic for the abductee. The first person
to undergo hypnotic regression was Mona. She met a psychiatrist,
doctor Sprinkle, in nineteen seventy seven, and as he put
her under hypnotic trance, she was simply too hysterical. All
she recalled was that they were driving and that they

(55:13):
saw this disk shaped aircraft behind them, and the interior
of the car lit up with the bright light and
they saw this foglike effect. As they saw the fog
enter the car, they started feeling the scorching, scorching heat,
scorching pain, and she became hysterical at that point, to
the point where he decided not to continue on with

(55:36):
the hypnotic regression. So at that point time passes by
and the investigation is sort of still going on, but
no one really has answers. Both move On and Oproar,
which are two organizations which explore the UFO phenomenon, they
were quite stretched financially, so they could most really assist

(55:57):
them any longer. But then luckily the two organizations managed
to reach an agreement with the National Inquirer, which is
a newspaper, and they would cover all the all the
expenses for exclusive coverage. At that point, the women were
desperate for answers, so they said, yeah, I We'll do
anything that would give us answers. And the first thing

(56:20):
they did was they went they underwent a polygraph test.
A polygraph test is what we referred to as a
lie detector test. Although it does not prove whether someone
is lying or not, it is an indicator or whether
someone is being too flawed. I mean, it's its credibility
can be debated, right, but back in the day it
was used even by by it was even using courts.

(56:42):
Right nowadays we realize that it cannot prove or disprove
whether someone is lying or not, But back then it
was to go to to see whether someone is lying
or not the person administering the test. He tried to
find loopholes, he tried to to, you know, find them
out in a lie, but they remained consistent. They were

(57:03):
The three of them described the same exact thing, but
at this point they were not aware that they had
been abducted. All they knew was that they saw the
disk shaped aircraft. They saw this foglike effect flop the car,
and then they lost consciousness. That's all they could recall.
So then they went hipolotical regression again. Six months had passed,
so the immediate traumatic response had subsided a little bit.

(57:31):
The first woman to undergo hypnotic regression was Louise, and
this is where the story gets very ominiscent eerie. I'll
skip over the part where they saw the disc shaped
aircraft and as the car came to a halt, as
it stopped, as she opened her eyes, she found herself

(57:54):
lying down on the table and what seemed like a
medical operating room. And this is once again a common karens.
Amongst the chapters that I write about, when aductees opened
their eyes, they commonly find themselves in this operating room,
and it's very medical. In Louise's case, the room was

(58:14):
very very bright, and around her she saw several humanoid
figures looking down at her, similar to what I described
with Maurice Masse. They were very short, a childlike in
their stature, but they had bulgy, dark eyes, and they

(58:36):
also had this tight fitted suit with a hood over
their heads, which added to the eerie presence. What happened
next is that as she was stuck on the table,
she was completely paralyzed. She could not move. One of
the beings approached her and started pouring the scorching liquid
all over her body. It was what she said, it

(58:56):
was genuinely organizing, and she genuinely thought that she was
going to die. And that's all she could recall, and
that is the last memory that she could recall after
the hypnotic regression. As the days went by after the
hypnotic regression, her health declined rapidly and she was stating
multiple times that she was not going to live another year.

(59:22):
Mona's encounter it was very very similar. As she opened
her eyes, she was in this brightly lit room, but
as she tried to stand up, she saw something holding
her down and she saw five creatures and with the
same description was quite identical. They were wearing surgical surgical
masks and surgical garments, and they were holding her down.

(59:44):
She was completely immobilized. The same thing happened. One of
the beings approached her and he poured this liquid, burning liquid,
all over her face. She genuinely thought that once again
she was going to die, and and differently to Louise,
she did. The next thing she recalled is that she
saw herself floating through this tunnel, dark tunnel, and there

(01:00:07):
was a room, and she in one of the room.
In this room, she saw a woman lying down, but
she could not decipher whether it was Elaine or Louise.
But that's all she could recall under hypnosis as well.
The last women, the remaining woman, Elaine, when she was
under hyplotic regression, she saw she was once again in

(01:00:29):
the small room. It was very she described it as
a chamber. It was very dark, differently to what the
other two women saw, and there were these two creatures,
several of them actually, They were moving back and forth,
back and forth, and they were observing her very very closely.
The first thing they did was they poured this burning
liquids over her. But then she was also exposed to

(01:00:53):
this second experiment. Basically, they placed this material around her neck,
and each time she tried to speak, or each time
she she had a thought, it would tighten. It was
very verbericate. It was tightened each time she had a
thought and each time she tried to speak, and was
essentially suffocating her in the hypnotic regression. So back in

(01:01:14):
the clinic, as she was describing this, she grabbed her
her neck and she was shouting in desperation and she
was experiencing the paindro just again. Elaine then stated that
once the experiment came to a conclusion, one of the
beings approached her and he placed this very small one

(01:01:34):
inch device it looked like a bullet over her, over
her left check and and that's all that she could
recall from the experience. As well. As I mentioned earlier,
this case, it was very harrowing. Right, There are very

(01:01:55):
very little cases in Chara as gruesome and as barbaric
to an extent as this one. And it has a
lot of a lot of convincing factors. Let's start from there.
The two factors that I even explore in the book.
It's an either or either they're telling the truth or als.

(01:02:17):
This is all a hoax, this is all a lie.
I start off by exploring the extceterrestrial hypothesis because it
is the one theory that sort of explains everything. So,
first of all, there's these three women, three of them
experience the same story. There is more than eyewitness. Each

(01:02:40):
of their three stories are identical, and that makes the
case immediately more credible because there is more than one eyewitness.
There's the physical evidence of the burning marks, which was
witnessed by many individuals. There was their neighbor, and their
health was continuous sleep deteriorating. It just did not get better.

(01:03:03):
They each found had the mark behind their neck. And
the psychological symptoms are actually just as if not even
more severe than the physiological ones. There were a lot
of cramatic symptoms that they simply just could not get
over at all. In fact, one of the women, she

(01:03:23):
stated that until their death, they could not their life,
could not get back to Norman. It just could not.
They started avoiding the public as much as possible, to
the point that they started secluding themselves in their own home.
They even, you know, they could have made money from this.
They could have easily made money, but they refused to
talk to anyone about this except for move On Opro

(01:03:47):
and the National Inquirer, as they had agreed once the
investigation came to an end, they did not talk about
it to anyone at all. Interestingly enough, on the night
of the incident that took place, there were many upon
reports by other individuals. For instance, a couple so this
large light passing over this Tanford area. Interestingly enough, also

(01:04:13):
where the car came to a halt, it was just
next to a farm, and one of the residing. One
of the residents there they had actually seen this large
light come to a stationary position, just hovering silently, which
sort of corroborates their encounter. Right. The only other explanation
that I could think of as as I wrote this

(01:04:34):
chapter was that this was a hoax. But I could
find very little reasons as to why they would do so.
I personally, if I was experiencing that much anguish, I
would if I was making it up, I would want
to capitalize on it. But right, it's sort of very
illogical for them to make the story up and then

(01:04:55):
not gain anything from it, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Yeah, And also with three different people haven't the same
or similar accounts. I mean that that would be hard
to do if you're lying.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Exactly, you know, you would get caught at one point.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
Yeah, because you've come up with a story. It'd be
hard for three people to keep all the things the
same when they're interviewed separately, and especially with like hypnosis.
I mean, you know, yeah, they for the regression, I
would think that they would have to believe that they
went through this.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
Indeed, indeed, exactly the way that hypnosis works is that
they put you in a hypnotic trancel that you can
access those memories that are not as accessible to the
costs mind. So this is also one of the cases
where it made me think quite a bit from a
philosophical point of view that you know, many times you

(01:05:44):
hear people saying that aliens, if they existed, then they
want to protect humans, they want to protect the planet.
But then I look at this case and I realized that, listen,
that is not necessarily the case. No one knows what
their intentions are. As a macubtact to have many instances
where we can see that they have malicious intentions such

(01:06:08):
as this one, And that's exactly what Lou Alizondo states
as well. He says that you can never guess what
their intentions are because we just do not know. And
there are there are cases where they have been malicious
to the observers, to the experiencers, and you know, unfortunately

(01:06:28):
for Mona, Elaine and Louise, they just did not recover
from it. Weeks turned into months, and then it turned
into years and they just continued to suffer and they
never returned to who they were before. And that's what
stuck with me the most.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
Yeah, it's it's interesting because the dichonomy between some of
the cases because it was like Travis Walton, he believes
that they accidentally killed him and took him on board
to bring him back to life because they hit him
with that light or whatever and it stopped as hard
and knocked them back around. Yeah, and so and then
you know in this, i mean the one woman almost
lost her as light because their ass were burnt and

(01:07:07):
swollen and they had those burns and health problems.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
Yeah, it's interesting. One of the things that you hear,
you know, in the alien UFO world is that you know,
maybe there are different races that are coming here that
some of them have better intentions than others.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Yeah, you see, it is these questions that make you
think philosophically, because I mean, I think I had I
think it was Stanton Friedman who had told me this.
Stanton obviously he paused, now, but yeah, some years ago
I was talking to him about this and he said,
in the same way that you know there are good
humans and bad humans, we have to assume the same

(01:07:45):
for these beings. There are beings who have good intentions, right,
and there are beings who have malicious intentions. And you know,
as I look over at the chapters in my book,
I I, for example, right now, I'm looking at stuff
Michelak's case. It is very similar to this Kentucky abduction

(01:08:05):
and he was harmed by his by his encounter. I
encourage the listeners right now to just google Stefan Michelotte
and you can see the behmarks on his body. But
then I look at you know, Whitey's three Bear. I
look at Letty and Barney, and they each describe this
experience to be sort of as spiritual as spiritual awakening,

(01:08:27):
where they are sort of telling telling them and that listener,
we need to start taking care of you. Know, the
sustainability essentially to take care of the planet. So, as
you stated perfectly, there is this dichotomy between the cases
which are sort of looking looking out for the planet

(01:08:48):
and for the abductee. But then there's also these cases
that just prove that, you know, some of these encounters
are malicious and these is they do not necessarily have
the good intentions that many of us assume they do.

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
Yeah, it's a fascinating cases in this book as well
as in your previous book. And I love how they're
they're kind of you started kind of a series without
doing a series like their companion books, because the way
we continued, you know, on Jay Allen Hannick's scale, you
kind of continued from the first one on to this one.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I remember just before rightly writing the first book,
I just wanted to explore the phenomenon, you know, because
obviously I've read I've read many books about the phenomenon,
but there isn't sort of I wanted to create this
series where if you combine all of them, they give
you this convincing argument that we are not alone, right,

(01:09:48):
and we should not be asking are we alone? We
should be asking why? Why are we being visited, what
are their intentions? That is the question that we should
be asking at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Yeah, and also asking for more disclosure from the governments
around the world.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
Yeah, yeah, indeed, indeed, you know right now there's talks
of the of another hearing is kept coming up. But
and many times people get caught up in this in
this argument, you know, like when is disclosure going to happen?
But then my question simply is the disclosure is happening.

(01:10:24):
I mean, we're having the d i A published papers
about how UFOs are harming military personnel, We're having you know,
whistle blowers testifying in Congress. I mean, that's that is disclosure,
and we need to start giving you know, these stories
the importance that it deserves. And of course your FOX

(01:10:48):
sightings are very interesting, and I do think that if
someone is not acquainted with the phenomenon, they should start
with UFO sightings. But then once you comprehend and acknowledge
that these beings exist, the question should shift as to
what is happening to those individuals who are having close

(01:11:10):
encounters and you know, what is happening when abductions take place,
and what is division behind these abductions? Why on a
philosophical perspective, why are these abductions taking place?

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
Right? Yeah? What do they want from us? Why are
they mutilating animals and abducting? Yeah, very fascinating and another
awesome book. Warren, thank you so much for coming on today.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
It's been an absolute pleasure. Eric. It's always fun talking
to you being on the podcast. I genuinely like to
think all all the listeners feel free to reach out
to me on Instagram and Facebook. Let me know what
you think about the phenomenon. I feel free to reach out.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
And the new book is called Close Encounters, exploring the
Mysteries of Alien Productions. And where can people grab a
copy of it?

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
So they can grab the copy? Just where you buy books.
There's Amazon, there's wh Smith, It's anywhere where you can
buy buy your book, all right. And if people want
a signed copy, just get in touch with me and
we can arrange for that to happen as well. Obviously
I'll do it will be the same price. I will
obviously be charging more for that, So feel free to

(01:12:25):
reach out to me.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
All right. Awesome, Thank you again, Warren. All right, everybody,
y'all stay safe for there, have a good day. We'll
see you next time. Thank you for listening to the
Unseen Paranormal. Join me next Wednesday with a brand new guest,
and please rate, review, share, subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or
wherever you're listening right now. This helps more people discover

(01:12:48):
the show. You can connect with me over on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter,
or join us in the Unseen Paranormal Lounge group on Facebook.
Until next time, remember some of the scariest things for
Unseen wel cone.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
To the that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
Woof, I've can bear your fool.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
It's your passy on the side.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
As a bike that hide side ways. God and Wils