Appalachian Myths and Folklore with Justin H. Guess

On this episode we welcome spiritualist, pagan, and author Justin H. Guess to discuss myths, folklore, and weird tales from Appalachia. Justin has written many books on the subject including "Appalachian Cryptids & Monsters" "Weird & Haunted High Country North Carolina: Southern Appalachian Folklore" "Old and New Southern Appalachian Urban Legends, Tales, Cryptids, and Monsters" and many more titles.
Check out Justin H. Guess links below and grab a copy of his books!

Justin H. Guess on the web and book links

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=justin+h.+guess&crid=21D33GI5SADOS&sprefix=justin+h.+guess%2Caps%2C112&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

https://www.facebook.com/justin.guess.338



Host Eric Freeman Sims and the show on the interwebs

https://www.facebook.com/TheKnightHouseKY

https://www.theknighthouseky.com/

https://www.facebook.com/eric.freeman.1048

https://www.instagram.com/theunseenparanormalpodcast/

https://twitter.com/TheUnseenPara

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7Nm2o2t_a1TlqDgqlpxxUg

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-unseen-paranormal-podcast--5862293/support.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Join us as we dive into thehistory, hauntings, and high strangers of
the world to try to better understandthe paranormal. I will be your guide.
I am paranormal researcher and investigator EricFreeman Simms. Welcome to the Unseen
Paranormal podcast. Hey everybody, welcomeback to the Unseen Panormal. I'm your

(00:27):
host, Eric andsus Well, thankyou for tuning in, Thanks for listening
to the show. Thanks for engagingonline. It's always fun to see the
comments and stuff on Facebook and inthe Unseen Paranormal Lounge and to chat with
y'all and all that good stuff.Big news, so for anybody that doesn't
know, we bought a two hundredyear old haunted house in hopkinsil, Kentucky,
called the Nighthouse, and we arenow taking reservations for investigations. The

(00:52):
investigations are starting in the middle ofAugust and running of course through the spooky
season September, October and on intoNovember December. And we got four nights
a month. We're going to everyother Friday and Saturday night. And there's
two price points. For seven tillthree am is five hundred bucks with one
hundred fifty dollars deposit to save thatdate so you don't have to pay it

(01:12):
all up front, and then youcan just pay the remainder. You have
to pay it seven days before youractual date, so you don't have to
pay all the money up front.And that's for up to eight people.
And also for up to eight people, we have a full night from seven
pm until nine am the next daywhere you actually sleep in the house and
we have full showers and stuff totake a shower. And that's for up

(01:34):
to eight people as well, andthat's one hundred and fifty dollars posit as
well. To book the date,and you can go on the website now
the Nighthouse ky dot com and nightis spelled k n ight and go book
your team or gather some friends andfamily together and come see us. Book
a book a night at the Nighthouseand come and have some fun. But

(01:56):
excited about that that new business ventureand it's going pretty well so far.
I've been working on it a lot. Also, you can go to the
Nighthouse ky dot com and check outthe renovations we're doing. I gotta put
a lot more pictures up there,but you can check out what we're doing
with the house. It's not allabout the paranormal. I want to do
lots of other things eventually, likeweddings and all kinds of other stuff.
So and a lot to do withthe history. Our biggest focus is on

(02:19):
the two hundred year history of thishouse and the families that live there and
telling their stories. Me as aninvestigator, you know, I like to
investigate new places, and so thisis a new location to do that.
But the paranormal, the money fromthat helps us, you know, maintain
and to work on the house,to restore some things and fix some things
and keep the house up. It'sa lot of maintenance on the two year

(02:39):
old house. So appreciate everybody that'sgoing to come out and investigate. I've
got some cool events coming up lateron this year. I'll be announcing for
September October Speaky season as well.Let's stay tuned for those. That's all
of the business. Let's get today'sepisode. Today we are talking to Justin
h Guests. He is a spiritualistand a pagan and he is also paranormal

(03:00):
author and his forte is the Appalachianlegends and folklore and myths and all the
weirdness and high strings just going onin Appalachia. So you sit back,
relax, and enjoy the show.We'll see you next time. Hey,
Justin, thanks for joining us today. Hey, thanks for having me.
Yeah. I can't believe that Ican come across your books before. You're

(03:21):
kind of been a prolific author inthe past quite a few years, and
especially my own home state of Tennesseeand writing a lot about urban legends and
folklore in especially the Appalachian Mountains,and so I definitely want to have you
on. When I found your book, Wow, I'm glad someone outside of
this little area found them. Yeah, and I think they're great. I

(03:45):
love how you put them together andexplaining things. One of my favorite things
before you even get started dabbing intothe books is that you actually explain that
skin walkers aren't from here, andit window goes aren't from here. They
have nothing to do with apple Lajah. Oh they really don't. But they're
new urban legends for the Internet.So I was like, let's include those

(04:08):
two since everyone's talking about them.Yeah, my audience knows I've been I've
been fighting against that, like there'sno that's a Navajo, that is that
is not that's out in the DesertUtah. Like you know, no,
not here has nothing to the Cherokeeor the Shawnee, none, not a
bit. Yeah, none of thetribes that were here. So but yeah,
I appreciate that of well, Imean, technically we did have skinwalker

(04:31):
in Cherokee, but they weren't calledthat, they were called skie. They
were the owls. So yeah,but it was also a different legend of
how you became one of those too. Oh yeah, as opposed to like
I think the Navajo you have toeat like one of your relatives, like
cannibalism, kill them and ethan andlike this whole black magic ritual thing.
Yeah. Yeah, So so howdid you get interested in, uh in

(04:55):
writing about the applache and focal wereand cryptids and all these monsters and things.
I co founded a paranormal investigation teamtwenty years ago, maybe twenty five,
and I kept noticing these patterns forstories, especially the ladies in white.
I always saw them like they werearound water, they're around wells and

(05:18):
also bridges. I saw a lotof motifs that kept repeating themselves, and
I was like, let me lookinto this and see, really, what's
going on. Yeah, that seemsto be a pervasive kind of all around
the world. Ladies in white they'realways longing for their lost love. Oh
yes, yeah, yeah, there'splenty of their stories in Middle Tennessee and

(05:41):
I've been I've dove into the researchfor all these different ghost stories all over
Tennessee. But yeah, you alsogrew up in Afterlata, right. Oh
yes, I'm from Northeast Tennessee bornand raised. Yeah, so kind of
steeped in that culture. And that'sa big thing. I love it because
they have like the storyteller competition outthere every year. They do that is
thirty minutes from me in Jonesborough.Yeah, and I love how they keep

(06:04):
this the old traditional live of thefolklore and storytelling. And whether any of
these stories are true or not isnot the point. I agree. Yeah,
why do you think it's so importantto keep the urban legends and the
folks are going, I'm going tospeak to ghost folklore. You know,
first, it's very important even witheven if it's not true, Okay,

(06:25):
even if it's just based in fantasy, it is containing information. It brings
you back in history minds, youof people that have long since passed and
if there wasn't a ghost story attachedto it, then that story would die,
know what would know about it?So it's kind of like a time
capsule. Yeah, And I knowa lot of a lot of these folkals

(06:47):
and things. Parents, you know, told their kids to teach them lessons
of things too, but also keepthem in line, like you know,
if you don't behave the wood boogerif you can get you, or old
rawhide and bloody bones, they wouldalway. So you've written many books now,
and you've had quite a few comeout this year. A couple of
the newest ones we'll go through,and I just want to touch on some
of these, some of the onesthat I haven't heard outside of Tennessee that

(07:13):
I think people maybe aren't as familiarwith that I find interesting. The ghost
Fiddler of Rattlesnake Rock, I findinteresting legend, Yes, that one keeps
showing up, especially around the veryvery mountainous regions. In that story,
it's a guy who kept the snakesat bay kind of by fiddling, yeah,
being a master on the field.D of like a pied piper situation.

(07:34):
Yeah, yeah, And so itkind of jumps around to different places
though as far as where it actuallythe Rattlesnake Rock is it does any outcropping
on top of a mountain that rattlesnakeswould bathe in Rattlesnake Rock. So it
seems to pop up again and againif you're in Georgia, Kentucky, Tennessee.
Yeah, it seems like one ofthose that because a lot of these,

(07:56):
like we're talking about the ladies inwhite are kind of pervasive urbands and
folkal are kind of around the worldin different places around the country. That's
one that I've never heard of,like I said, outside of Tennessee and
Appalacca. Okay, it's just notone of those that caught on. I
mean you have others too, notjust like any white but like the like
the the kids that'll push your caracross the railroad tracks and stalls and the
road tracks. Yes, I lovea gravity hill. There's one close to

(08:18):
me, and it's cute for smallkids to say, oh, it's going
to happen. Yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah, we actually have.
We have a gravity hill in Nashvillethat I've actually they don't let you take
cars on it anymore, but youcan. It's in a park in the
city park so you can actually takeballs and anything that will roll out there,

(08:39):
and uh, yeah, it actuallylooks like it rolls up hill.
And yeah, they actually brought inone time, I think back in the
nineties when I was grown up,they brought in some scientists and they actually
dug the hill up to see ifI had any any weird properties or anything
of that, and then they justdecided, you know, it's just a
opac illusion. Yeah, well Iwould have just got a you know,

(09:01):
that's just me. Yeah. Forsome reason, they dug it up to
I guess to see if there's likemagnetic rock or something weird. Okay,
Yeah. Another weird one that iskind of unique is the not deer.
Yes, that one is unique,and I've seen it become very popular on
TikTok for some reason. I thinkit I think I tracked it back literally

(09:26):
to the person who created that story. I think it was a personal story
and it just took off. Anydeer that acts a little strange, and
if you're from the mountains, youknow they're a deer that's yeah, they're
everywhere. So a deer that's strangeis suddenly a not deer, which is

(09:46):
a kind of a skin walker inthe urban legends. Now, yeah,
some of them walk on their hindlegs and have extra legs or yeah,
just all kind of matter of weirdthings or fangs. Yeah, but there's
also I mean there's for that.There are definite scientific reasons with the chronic

(10:07):
wasting disease and things like that thatthey're going around. Yes, they are.
And I'd definitely say if you seea dear acting like that, maybe
back away from it, don't tryto get too close because it's probably encephalopathy
of some kind or pre on disease. Yeah, yeah, which is like
Matt Cow. Yeah. Another bigthing in Appleates is the witch culture.

(10:28):
Yes, yeah, Why do youthink that's so pervasive? You think that
comes along with like the ancestry.I am not. It is very peculiar
because those witchcraft stories I've really reallyhad to dig for and rely on on
historians a lot on censuses because therewasn't much information out there. It's very

(10:54):
different here because they had a lotof charm doctors, you know, the
people that would heal burns, taketake witchcraft off of you would all kinds
of healing stuff too, But theyweren't prosecuted and treated like they were in
Salem, even though there really wasn'tthat much time difference between them. Yeah,

(11:16):
I've got a buddy, Steve Stockton. He's from out that way who
writes a lot about Apppalachia and grownup in that area out in oak Ridge
and Knoxvillen, and his his grandmotherwas a what he called a water witch,
and she used to teach him allkinds of things. And he was
the veiled one when he was born, So he was born with a veil,
gotcha. She kind of he wasthe one that she passed on like

(11:39):
her stories and things too. Yes, so he really shouldn't be telling you
about that stuff. Well, hesaid that he was. He was afraid
of her, like she scared himto death because she's like this old Cherokee
lady with these long bony fingers andthings, you know. And he was

(12:00):
like, yes, she was justscary. So he's like, I should
have been listening more, but Ireally wasn't right because she just scared the
shit out of me. So there'sa there's all kind of cryptids associated with
the I know Tennessee in general.He has things like giant catfish and you
have the the wampus cat and thered cheetah. Yeah. Uh, the
wampus cat was the most interesting becauseI traced it back to I mean,

(12:26):
unless the newspaper was doing a joke, and sometimes they did write jokes,
but the newspaper articles didn't seem tobe a joke. There was some strange
cat that was walking around on itshind legs in that story, and it
had a picture for jellybeans. Imean they had to close down the store.

(12:46):
They didn't want kids on the street. After it was interesting. Found
one I want to say, illinoyyand it was a camarat kind of creature.
It had hig but it had felinefeatures, feline tails, So that
one was more interesting. Yeah,the wampas cat I find interesting. The
two legends that I've always there's twodifferent ones I've always heard. One was

(13:11):
a there was a witch Hu's shapeshift into the into the cat into like
a big cat. And then onetime they went out, the villagers went
out looking for her and they caughther mid change, and so since she
was mid change, she was stuckwith like four legs and park cat.
And yeah, so that was oneof the folklore that I heard. And
then the other was just that it'sencryptid. But I find that one interesting

(13:35):
because it I think there's like thirtysomething schools that use the wampuscat as their
mascot. Yes, there are.I love them, that's I love their
statues. Yeah. The story thatkeeps getting passed around here was that it
was a Cherokee woman who it wasthe birth of It was because all the

(13:56):
animals didn't come all at once.In the Cherokee folklore, Mountain Lion became
Mountain Lion because a woman's husband hadgone insane from a creature, a demon
in the woods. I think it'scalled ey Hay. And she put on
this fur coat and went out andfound it in a cave, and when

(14:20):
she screamed at it, it fledand left the town. So no other
men went mad. So she decided, I have to stay a cat and
scream every time this creature's near,otherwise men will go insane. Wow.
Yeah, just the derivation some ofthese interesting, like, you know,
just with them being it to melike that one would be an excuse,

(14:43):
an explanation for people have mental healthissues. You know, well, according
to the Cherokee medicine men, itwould be fish in your brain. The
spirit of fish in your brain thatcaused madness, So there's that. Yeah,
But yeah, the wampus cat getsjust gotten pervasive throughout the Southern culture.

(15:05):
Like I said, thirty something schoolsas a mascot from colleges to high
schools and all these different teams,and just found it interesting. The giant
catfish is another one that we hearin Middle Tennessee. That's kind of that
I've seen pervasive all over Tennessee,especially with all the TVA dams and things.
Yeah. Yeah, I actually spoketo someone with the TV and said,

(15:28):
you know, he said it wasa myth, but he had heard
it, so he couldn't say itwasn't completely inaccurate. But yeah, I've
never seen one that big. Well, somebody an article that I saw about
them. It might have been inthe Tennessee in or something, but they'd
read an article about the focal aroundhere and they said, you know,
fishermen are known to exaggerate their catches, so maybe that's part of why you

(15:52):
have the giant catfish miss the sizeof Volkswagen bules probably yeah. Yeah.
And then of course one of myone of the interesting things I think that
kind of goes into a Bigfoot aswell. And you know, definitely the
Appalachians are are are definitely a hotspotfor bigfoot. I know some guys that
research out their bigfoot hotspots and righthave had interactions things. But feral people

(16:17):
or people, yes, or wildmen, wild man. That was an
interesting little trip back in time,all the way back to the European wild
people that would get lost in thewoods and be raised by wolves. That
one's very interesting, and they've changednow. It is the feral people that
live in national parks and are responsiblefor the disappearances of people in the Missing

(16:41):
four one one, So I findthat very interesting. Yeah, yeah,
I've never heard that connected to theforum one with David Politi stuff, But
there's lots of different explanations that peoplecome up with for the Missing f one
stuff. David Polaititi has now hascome out and seemed to say that he
thinks it's more bigfoot alien type stuff. Oh okay, well, yeah,

(17:03):
Bigfoot was the interesting one as well, all of them interesting. I think
the first accounts I get from thesasket is what their name came from.
The Sasquatch. One of the peoplethat went on record with the newspaper at
the time said that he had traveledwith one following one for I think half

(17:23):
a day on an underground path.I find that very interesting. That they
lived in caves, is what thatculture said. Yeah. Yeah, and
I know the Cherokee somewhat believed thatBigfoot was walked in both worlds, so
they had a foot in this worldand a foot into a different dimension.

(17:44):
Yes, and so yeah, andthen nowadays you got people, you know,
on both sides fighting about You gotthis half of the Bigfoot camp that
thinks it's it's all supernatural, andthen you got the other camp that thinks
it's a undiscovered ape species. Sothey call the other people wo this other
stuff. So I don't know whatto believe. I just tell I just

(18:04):
tell my audience that's that's These arereasons why I don't camp. Yeah,
that's a very good reason. Yeah, not just Bigfoot, but lots of
other I mean, just real thingsthat we know exist, you know,
bears and mountain lions and things likethat. That little fin tents not gonn
protect you from shit. Well,you know that wildlife has gone back and

(18:25):
forth about the mountain lion, sayingit's yeah, not here, and it
is and I personally have heard awoman screaming in the woods, which is
mountain lion. So yeah, I'mgonna say they're here. Yeah, I
know, there's plenty of hunters havegotten them on their trail cams exactly.
And yeah, for whatever reason,the t already just will not say that

(18:45):
they're back intimacy. Yeah, they'renot here. Nope. Well, and
it's funny because last summer in downtownNashville, in the Party of Nashville called
Antioch, there were two separate blackbears in town. Okay, so if
you have black bears moving back intoMiddle Tennessee, why would it be so

(19:07):
crazy? You think we have mountainlions, you know, moving back into
the appalachas So and in Middle Tennesseeand all over, right, especially when
they're gonna run out of other habitatup north, and even like the even
down in Florida you have the Floridapanther that's getting run out of its habitat.
So you know, maybe they're movingnorth where they actually have habitat and
food. Where I live, it'sif you see a bear, it's like,

(19:30):
okay, well it's a bear,not a big deal. But I
couldn't understand. In Nashville, yes, yeah, yeah, it was weird
to see black bears downtown Nashville.It made the news and they showed the
videos on the news and stuff.So the tw already couldn't deny that.
It's not like people have pets,you know, pet bears that they released,
and it's not like a seeing ayou know, a python or something

(19:52):
in the wild, right you know. But yeah, also over in uh
there's a big fight over in Englandand over in the UK. I talked
to a couple of authors from overthere about big cats being over there and
being sighted and the government over therewon't. Oh yes, the Beast of
x Moore and the phantom black cats, yes, yeah, and plenty of

(20:12):
people have seen them. There wasa video of that's all not so long
ago, that it was definitely ablack cat that was bigger than a house
cat in a field. And oneof the guys I talked to you he
said that he said, the government'snot ever going to say that we have
these big cats, even if theydo have proof, because the farmers will

(20:32):
be too afraid with all their livestockand stuff and exactly. But yeah,
there's some good evidence out there forour area and for over in England for
having big cats. Yes, butit's weird. It would be weird for
England in the UK with them beingan island, you know, to have
big cats. Well, they cando the old thing that we used to

(20:52):
do in this area is Oh,there was a traveling circus that came through.
They trained and they got loose.Yeah. Yeah, that's a close
to me. Where I live outsideof Nashville. There's a little town called
white Bluff, and there's a youmay have heard this legend, but the
White Bluff Screamer, Yes I have, and that is the folkal are there

(21:15):
that it was a train, acircus train that got derailed, okay,
and all these animals got loose,And that's one of the that's one half
of the legend. The other halfof legend that it's a band shee.
Yeah, from what I read,it sounded more like a band shee because
it was predicting a death was aboutto happen. Yeah. My actually have

(21:37):
family that lived on the road thatthe band she's supposed to follow you,
And I've got a couple of cousinswho actually think that they've seen it.
And then I was talking to kenGerhart, the famous script is a alogist.
Yes, and in one of hisbooks he had the White Bluff Screamer.
But the report that he took fromthe lady was that she was at
a swimming hole near White Bluff andshe saw a white bigfoot. I have

(22:00):
also heard white Bigfoot for that one, yes, yeah, yeah, So
I have looked at newspaper articles andI could never find where a circus train
crashed. No, never is reallywell, at least in this area.
There really are railroad tracks that runthrough there, right, you know.
I could imagine some places there's noteven railroad tracks in sight, and they
still have the story of a traincrashing. Yes, but but yeah,

(22:26):
I find it interesting that those it'skind of melted into three different things.
It's kind of weird, but itkeeps the story alive and that's what's important.
Yeah. There's another local legend aroundthere too, called Whrewell Springs and
uh, it's actually in a statepark, Colled Montgomery Bell State Park,
and that's actually where they filmed.Ernest goes a camp of that movie,

(22:48):
Yeah, they do. They doErnest Days every year, so the surviving
cast members go in the summer fora weekend, and yeah, you can
go see the cabins and see thelake and everywhere they film. But there's
a place called Hall Springs in thepark and that was the first area there
that was settled by a family.And the Hall family was a real family,
and there's this huge spring that comesout of ground there. But the

(23:10):
local legend is that they the family'sbeing tortured by these screams in the woods,
so nobody's getting to sleep with.The father finally got tired of it
and he took his hunting dog outone night and followed the screams. Well,
the screams led him in a bignight circle, and when the sun
was coming up, he found himselfback at his cabin. He went in
the cabin. His family had beentorn to shreds by some beast. Yeah,

(23:33):
and then there was another attack thathappened not long after that. It
was a farmer in his farm hand. We're in the wagon coming back from
town and something was stalking in thewoods and they kind of hurried up the
horses a little bit. What endedup attacking them. The farm hand hid
in the woods until the next morning, but it killed the farmer and the

(23:56):
horse and he went in town.They had a whole posse that went on
the woods looking. You know,I imagine you know, pits, fortune
torches and guns, you know,dogs and stuff, just going out through
the woods. Yep, I'm lookingfor this beast. But they never found
it. But yeah, that's thelegend of Werewoll Springs. And so now
instead of hall Springs, they callit werewol Springs because the yeah, the
farm hand described it as a agiant dog standing on hind legs. Oh

(24:22):
okay, So that's an interesting Uh, that's only crypto, big crypto legend
I know around here. There's athere's a crypto legend up in northern Middle
Tennessee in the Gallatin area of apterodactyl flying dinosaur. I reserve not to
comment on the pterodactyl, but speakingof flying cryptis one of one of the

(24:48):
more famous ones I think that peopleknow is the thunderbirds. Yes, which
is not from any culture in myarea. That's northern culture. But I
guess it's just a catch all termfor giant bird. Yeah, is there
any any of that stuff? Anygiant bird stories in the Appalachia Southern there's

(25:10):
always giant bird stories almost in everysingle county, and they're usually described as
hawk like. So I think MonsterQuest did a very good one on a
boy in Georgia who almost got snatchedup by a very large bird. His
mother actually witnessed it too, soyeah, yeah, I've seen that story.

(25:33):
Yeah, that's pretty interesting. Andshe was a pretty credible witness too,
she was. And then there's theother famous one where they got the
video when they were canoeing. Yes, but yeah, you know it's hard
for me. It's hard to telldistance. I'm like, okay, well,
how far away is it? Iam a skeptical believer. In fact,
I wrote a book called ghost Huntingfor Skeptical Believers. Yeah. Yeah,

(25:59):
the story are more important to me. Yeah. And that it's funny
that you call yourself that because I'vealways called myself that because even in even
in doing paranormal investigations, I willI will throw stuff out before I ever
put it out as evidence. Yes, And I think that's how you need
to be. And then especially evenmore so with cryptids and things, because

(26:22):
so many people can have I'm notsaying they're all misidentification with cryptids, but
I think a lot of it is. I would say a lot of it
is, but then again it doesfuel the stories, which I'm happy about,
right right. Another thing that interestsme too in Appalachia, and I
think this this can probably be directlytied to the to the Irish coming over,

(26:45):
but the whole faith folk. Yes, lots of that about I know.
Even in like the Smoky Mountain NationalPark. I've heard stories And the
most recent one I've heard is fromRoan Mountain to see a woman said that
she was to say, pouring hermother's ashes out, and she claimed that

(27:07):
she was attacked by small winged people. So that's the most recent one i've
heard. Yeah, that's that's interesting. There's a there's a tree, the
Giant Tree that I think is nearK's Cove that people talk about being a
fairy tree and when they get aroundit they feel weird. And people have

(27:29):
had almost like hallucination, like thethe air gets like shimmery, you know,
things like that, like they're beinginfluenced by the fay now. So
that is very interesting. That wouldcatch my interest if someone had told me
that the air became kind of shimmery. I've heard that from two other people,
so that is a very interesting tome. Yeah, I talked to

(27:52):
you who's become a friend of mine. Her name is jim and Jade,
and she's written the book about theFaye and and how it kind of encompasses
a lot of the different phenomenon,including Bigfoot and other cryptids and even ghost
with different types of Faye. AndI don't even know it went that kind
of deep as far as there's differentdifferent types, and some of them like

(28:17):
humans, some don't, some arehelpful, some will kill humans, like
the Red Hat God Red Hat GoblinIttle. It kills people and then dies.
It's hat in the human blood,and that's why it has a red
hat. Yeah, I've never heardthat book. Oh yeah, that's another
fairy. And then one of thebig things I'd never heard until recently a

(28:37):
few years ago was the dog Menstories in Tennessee in general. Yeah,
I'm not sure what to make ofthe dog Man. Actually, I hear
a lot about it. Yeah,yeah, And it became it became popular
with Linda Godfred in the Best ofGreat Road it did, and then I
guess more and more people have justcome out and talked about their experiences with

(28:59):
it. Yes, I have.I helped a gentleman with his YouTube channel,
he and his wife were witnesses toa dog man. So until that
point I was kind of dismissive.I was like, Okay, this is
a werewolf but not but listening tothem, I was like, Okay,

(29:25):
well, something is a little off. And I sometimes wonder if something has
kind of been created mentally and movedover to the other side and has kind
of led into this site occasionally.Yeah, yeah, that's that's one of
the things I've kind of dove intothe thought form or the golum kind of

(29:47):
whatever you want to call it,of a lot of these newer cryptids and
newer phenomenon that are coming around,like the they call him the Lumberjack.
It's just a these lumberjack type menthat are always dressed like a lumberjack in
you know, jeans and a plaidshirt and boots. But they're always helpful
people getting lost in the woods.Intrigue with that that sounds more like Fay

(30:11):
activity. Oh well helpful maybe notFaye. Yeah, yeah, but that's
one of the things I'm like,could that be a thought for him?
And then even like slender Man,just being more prevalent from people actually claiming
to see slender Man, and thenyou have the two little girls to try
to kill their friend because slender Mantold them to you. And yeah,

(30:33):
yeah, I've even heard of slenderMan, But again I take that one
of the grain of salt. I'veheard of someone seeing slender Man in the
woods, but I don't know.Yeah, have you ever heard about any
of the phenomenon of the predator typecreature, the shimmer man, the shimmering.
Yes, I've heard that one aswell. I'm not sure what to
do with that one's because that one'skind of a newer one. Yeah,

(30:56):
can't really pin down anywhere it's camefrom. Yeah, I know there's some
I know David Polaiiti's had some oneof his documentaries had some people, some
hunters who actually experienced it and toldtheir story, and they sounded pretty credible.
But there's lots more stories of thosecoming out, and I know some

(31:18):
people have actually seen it firsthand,Steve Stockton being one of them that I
was talking about. Then Jim andJade also has seen that phenomena of what
looks like a creature cloaking itself likethat and kind of stalking them. For
Steve Stockton, I think it wasin Portland, Oregon, but downtown he
was out late night waiting on thetrain or something, and he finally got

(31:41):
away from it. He was byhimself at this train station and he ended
up like kind of booking it toanother train station where there's actually people,
right and kind of left him alone. But it kind of stalked him the
whole way. But see, tome also, I would go up and
I'm not one of those people thatsticks to one camp. I do like
to go into the paranormal, ghosttoning, cryptozoology and ufology. So the

(32:06):
shimmering, I would wonder, isthat ufology? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
some kind of cloaking technique for them. And it's weird if I mean
that, if that is true,it ever proves to be true, then
you know, the guy who wrotethe Predator movies, what did he know,
you know, exactly to kind ofget it perfectly right. But there's

(32:31):
so much with Appleationian from southern Apoleatchaall way up through northern Apalachia. You
have spook lights and all these differentthings. Yes, I love spook lights.
I keep going back and forth betweenmaybe it's a natural occurring phenomenon,
But then again, there are noearthquakes, but they do seem to occur

(32:54):
a lot on fault lines, soI'm wondering if any tectonic strain is causing
that. I don't know. Yeah, that's interesting. And then and then
some people claim like ball lightning thingslike that as well, Yeah, which
is not really widely understood but hasbeen proven by science that it's a real
thing for the longest time that itcouldn't even prove that. But one of

(33:20):
the other things I find fascinating isthat there are so many accounts of ghost
stories in like old newspapers, andit was kind of some of the ones
I've read, it was kind ofjust a matter of fact, like mister
Johnson's place, he saw a specterlast night at the foot of his bed
and that was it. You know. Yes, I love those, and
I'm but where is where is this? Because I would like to go and

(33:43):
take pictures of this area, butno, they don't tell me where.
Yeah, and that was just thenews of the day, and it was
just like it was just he reportedit to the news of the police or
whatever, and it was just kindof yeah, it just happened, you
know. But there's so many ofthose that are really interesting that. I

(34:04):
found an article about the Tennessee wildMan from the eighteen forties that was warning,
you know, men to keep youryour wives and your kids and your
dogs in because the Tennse Wildman willcome snatch them off the street. That
was very common. I saw thata lot with the wild men, especially
the one in western North Carolina,and it was a caveman type looking person

(34:30):
who would go in and steal wivesand so keep your wives close. That's
yeah, that's very interesting. AndBigfoot also has a reputation, according to
story, of being more interested inthe females. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
that goes the Bigfoot stuff. Cousis like the I think some of

(34:52):
these phenomena crossover, like the craybabybridges. Yes, yes, one of
the phenomena with Bigfoot is hearing ababy cry it so maybe lower women.
Yes. I first learned about thaton a show on YouTube called Hell Here
about the cry Baby. That's thefirst time I heard that, and I
was like, no, I needto research this. Some of the locations

(35:15):
too, with the ghosts and hauntings, I find interesting how there's so much
folklore around them. Rotherwood Mansion isone of them. Rotherwood Mansion. Oh
my yes, and that place it'sstill it's a beautiful place is still standing.
It is. So the one you'reseeing is not the original. That

(35:37):
one burnt down. That's uh,it's a fairly well not new, but
it was built after and the manthat they all Joseph, the man that
they all say was the horrible slavemaster, it was actually the next man
who owned it. And Rowena isa beautiful woman in white until I got
her picture from Hawkins County History inand I was like, no, that

(36:00):
is definitely not Rowena. And alsoshe died in I think Louisiana. So
yeah, but again, the storyit's important, it's interesting. Kids are
going to tell it and they're goingto remember these people. Yeah, and
Rowena, with being the woman inwhite, supposedly her her fiance drowned,

(36:23):
yes, and she ended up supposedlykilled herself by dressing one the first one
drowned, the second one died ofyellow fever. That's when she drowned herself.
Yeah. Her father did keep adetailed diary and she did commit suicide
when she was in Louisiana, buthe didn't mention how Yeah, and there's
lots of those stories, was itrother Wood mentionine that the horrible slave owner

(36:49):
ended up dying because he gagged onflies or something. Joshua Phipps, Yes,
died by gagging and then when hewas buried, a black hound with
glowing red eyes popped out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, some of these
some of these stories are crazy andjust the fact of going and finding whether

(37:10):
it's true or not. But likeyou said, the stories are still important
whether they're true or not. Andand I think even some of the stories
that we tell nowadays that you knowmay have happened to us and multiple other
people will become vocal for one day. Yes they will. And I think
the mode of transfer, the modeof getting that now is mostly through TikTok.

(37:31):
Actually, so it's kind of importantwhen something new pops up for me
to go, well, let melook at this. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. And I I hate allthe fake videos, but somewhere in there
you will find some that are true. Yes, they are real, maybe

(37:51):
real video of things that are goingon, things like that amongst all the
fake stuff. Yes, But butit's hard to as a because there's so
much technology with AI now and allthat stuff. It's so hard to tell
what you're dealing with's not. Imean, I've seen I've seen crazy shit
in the twenty five years I've investigatingwith my own eyes. Yeah that you

(38:14):
know, people you can believe ornot, but I saw it and it
happened. I got you. Iinvestigated a place and captured a chair moving,
and the comments became its invisible strength. So yes, I understand.
Yeah, yeah, I'm surprised.We've actually since I bought that that ten
or year old house, the Nighthousein Hopkinsville, I've actually caught some things

(38:36):
on video and the comments have actuallybeen not too bad. Well good,
I get maybe because my reputation isgood as an investigator and that I don't,
you know, do bullshit. Butthere's one that it's a mist,
a white mist in the middle ofthe day that goes across the camera and
there's nobody there. And the biggestthing that I got from somebody was it's
a humidifier and like it's the middleof summer, it's eighty percent humidity.

(38:59):
Out the hell do we need ahumid a fire in the house puffing out?
You know? Why what do wewant to walk into a sauna?
You know? So make any senseand then and then I got some noises
on a camera and it's behind thecamera, but it's very up close,
but it sounds like furniture moving,sounds like someone walking around, and it's

(39:20):
really loud. And I set upthe cameras to when we're not there for
motion and and for sound too,you know, to notify me. And
this is at like twelve thirty atnight. We weren't there, nobody was
in the house, and somebody commentedsomething about, well, could the camera
be picking up radio signals? Doyou hear voices? It's it's if you're

(39:43):
hearing voices and you have mental healthissues, because it actually sounds like furniture
moving, you know. And thisthis camera is on a mantle right of
the fire place. You know,there's nothing behind it to be moving,
you know. But yeah, someof the some of the stuff that people
come up, it's just really funnyand kind of seeing a change in the
paranormal world though in the past fewyears of people actually be willing to debunk

(40:07):
other people. I have seen itchange from I think MTV had a show
called Fear I Want to Say,and then we went to Ghost Unners.
I have seen it change from itbeing investigations seemed more like party favor entertainment
for the people who wanted the investigationsto it not being so prevalent now and

(40:32):
people are more harsh on some ofthe claims, which I do blame some
of the shows for that. Yeah, yeah, I do too. Online,
I think it's changed from people actuallytrying to educate people a little bit
instead of just off handily saying well, that's not the paranormal. I've actually

(40:54):
seen people say well, you know, that's a Lens flair, or you
know, it could be this orthat. Know, trying to educate people,
not as there are still many harshpeople out there, because you're always
gonna have trolls. Oh yeah,yeah. And what a lot of people
don't know too about that show.M TV's fear was that Jason Hawes was
a location scout for them and aconsultant, and that's how he ended up

(41:17):
with his on TV show Go Centers. Oh well, that was the show
that got me interested in ghostunting.Yeah. I watched that show as well,
knowing that it was probably full ofshit. Oh yeah, it just
made up the scare and yeah,most of the stuff that happened the producers,
you know, piped in sounds.Yeah, not to scare them,
but I don't think they ever Idon't remember them ever like billing it as

(41:40):
real ghost activity. No, Idon't think they ever did. It was
more, Hey, there's a camerafacing your actors. Let's get their responses.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, AndI think I think the whether you
believe in them or not, theghost shows, I think they've done a
good job at continuing the stories ofthe history of a lot of these places

(42:01):
that would have forgotten certainly have andcertain cases such as a certain hospital in
Kentucky. It's quite lucrative business.Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm hoping
my house is lucrative business, butnot just for the hauntings. Right.
We have plans to do other thingslike a wedding venue and all that stuff,

(42:23):
all right, but we bought thehouse to keep the history alive.
And nobody's ever really dove into thehistory of this house, even though it's
the oldest house in Hopkinsville in ChristCounty, Kentucky, between eighteen fifteen and
eighteen twenty. But that's why,you know, that's my motivation for on
in this location. The parent normalwould just help pay the bills and help

(42:45):
to renovate, you know, definitely, But we've experienced so much stuff in
there already that I think they wantto tell their story too, right,
And it's it's a They're very mellowand very nice. They haven't scared anybody.
They don't make you feel uncomfortable.Goodhing like that. I actually saw
for the first time. I sawthe lady of the house out of the

(43:06):
corner of my eye the other day, and so that was interesting. I
haven't It's been a lot of noisesand voices, not a whole lot of
visual stuff yet, but right,it'll ramp up, yeah, yeah,
but yeah, I'm huge into thehistory of places, and that's why I
love the focal and urban legends becauseI think it does help keep the history

(43:27):
alive as well. And like rotherWood Mansion, if it didn't have those
crazy stories, nobody would know aboutit, exactly. That's what Oh,
hold on a second, dog manner, Okay, now, okay, we're
good, all right, That's exactlywhat I'm saying, as if these if

(43:49):
these stories didn't exist, these placeswould not be as interesting, especially the
historic places. Yeah. Yeah,and and I'm like I said, I'm
trying to get the history together ofthe location that I own now, and
we haven't started investigation. Jackets wereworking in the house, but it's a

(44:14):
it's a task, especially for atwo hundre year old house, and to
get it right. You know,some have you gone to the county clerk
and done the deed research book numberand page number and go all the way
back. I have not had timeto do that yet, gotcha. Yeah,

(44:36):
that because we were working so muchon the house. But I have
done ancestry. There wasn't a wholelot of history out there about the house.
It was owned by one family foralmost one hundred years, okay,
and so I don't know who builtit, don't have any idea who built
it. They can't find a deed, but deeds weren't generated if the person
already owned the land. The deedwasn't generated to build the house. It

(44:57):
was only generated when they sold it, right, Yeah, the original deed
has never been found. So orthe library or courthouse got burned down during
the Civil War and they run allof it. Yes, yeah, yeah,
I haven't counted that a few times. Yeah, but there's so much
history with this family and even thesecond family that lived there, bought it
in the late nineteen forties, andlived there in twenty fourteen. Was a

(45:20):
prominent family in the community. Andit's interesting because one hundred and eighty of
its two hundred year history it waslawyers that lived there. So okay,
it's interesting that when the Knight familydied off, basically another family and lawyers
bought it. So it's pretty interesting. But it has a really fascinating history.

(45:43):
But that's a different show. It'sall right, yeah, But so
with there's lots of occult stuff thatgoes on in Appalachia two, it's kind
of with the hell your stuff andall that. It's it's confusing to me
because there's so many different pinpoints allover the place, right with the occult

(46:07):
connections with the old world gods anduh, government officials and so how does
all of that because I know you'reyou kind of dive into all of that
stuff too, how does all thatkind of play together? Uh? That
would be just high strangeness in general, everything that Jacques Valais discussed in his

(46:28):
books, that is high strangeness.Anything and everything that can seem completely absurd
just kind of meshes together. Andwhat is the deal with like the Old
World god worship. So that's newerto me, and I've had I have

(46:51):
heard the Lord of the Dead isactually the personification of coal itself. Just
very interesting take on that because manypeople would I mean, that is kind
of very underworld people would die ofblack lung mother. Appalachia is a newer
one I've heard as well. It'sthis new movement. It's kind of embracing

(47:17):
the Appalachian culture. Sometimes I thinkit's romanticizing poverty that we used to have
a pretty bad issue in this area. Yeah, but it's it's still appreciative
that their people are kind of makingnew ways. Yeah. Yeah, and
you, I mean you have apan is a big part of that as

(47:37):
well. Yeah, well, Ifind it. I find it interesting because
I'm agnostic, so I don't Idon't describe any religion and your pagan,
right, oh, spiritualist and occultist, but pagan's easier. Yeah, But
I just find it it's funny becausea lot of the things that I found

(47:58):
about the Old World god worship hasbeen through the guys of Christianity and them
trying to kind of shut it downand saying that it's evil and all this
other stuff to where they want tosay they're sacrificing children and ah that old
hat, yeah's been around forever.Yeah, but uh yeah, I find

(48:22):
all that interesting. And like Isaid, with the hell You're stuff is
just it's weird, just weird goingon and high strangeness as they call it,
and looking at the things like thatmakes me think that it's all connected
in some way, shape or form. All the weird shit in the world
is just connected in some way itis. I think that high stranges is

(48:45):
designed to make you just question yourbelief system for to what reason I still
have yet to figure out. Butit's like it wants you to question it.
Yeah, yea, it wants toconfuse you. Yeah. I found
that in investigating ghosts as well,the ghost phenomenon, because anytime you get

(49:08):
on the subject of death and askingthem what happens or they shut it down
yes, yes, or they straightlie. They will straight out lie to
you. Coming from someone who satin on weekly seances for four years,
they will straight lie to you.Yeah, you could be having the best
and I've had this happen, havingthe best EP like back and forth on

(49:29):
EVPs and actually hearing them answer questionson voice recorder. And then as soon
as you say anything about death,how'd you die? Anything like that,
what happens after we die? Yep, they just they the rest of the
night, they won't talk to you. It's like it's weird, weird rules
that we don't understand. Yeah,and then I've heard other stories like when

(49:52):
loved ones come back in weird ways, like telephone calls from the dead or
takes messages from the day or messagesdirect messages from the dead. Those are
kind of the newer forms of that. But yeah, that still occurs to
this day. But a lot oftimes they'll say I don't have much time,
and they'll seem kind of staticky anddistant. Yeah, I don't have

(50:14):
much time to tell you this,and they'll give one good message and then
never again. Yeah. And I'veheard other very credible stories of people spending
ten twenty minutes with the ghosts ofa dead loved one like they were still
alive. And you know, soit seems to be the rules just all
over the place. Yeah, wheresome people find a loophole, Yes,

(50:38):
some people do find a loophole onthat side, and this side seances good
loophole, Probably not popular anymore.You know, they have a very bad
reputation, undue reputation. But yeah, you know, last year I wasn't
big. I didn't believe a lotin spirit, a lot the spiritualist stuff.

(51:00):
Definitely understand you. A lot ofpeople faked it. Yeah, yeah.
But I actually set in on atable tipping last year in Gettysburg and
with really good friends of mine.And I've always been an EmPATH, and
more so with living people. Inever it kind of scared me to put
that energy in at dead people rightfor a long long time until the past

(51:22):
ten years. But I sat downand they're like, you know, we
went to my friend Cisco was like, I know you're a really strong impath.
I want you to sit in onthis and just you know, open
yourself up. And she's like,I know you're skeptical because that's just your
nature. And I said okay,and they actually kind of changed my mind.

(51:44):
I actually felt a lot of theenergy. And I think the thing
that blew my mind the most therewas a medium who was sitting there too,
with their hand on the table,and there was a negative energy that
we all felt kind of come inand she said hold on and I'll take
care of it. And kind ofshe closed her eyes and put her head
back and she swirled her hand aroundthe table and then pulled up on it

(52:06):
the energy and threw it out.And you could feel with your hands on
the table you could feel that.Yeah, And I was like that man,
that that kind of just like kickedme in the ass for me to
kind of well, maybe this reallyis going on. Yeah, And I
don't know if I believe it necessarilythat's the table itself. I think the
table may just just a conduit forall the people sitting around it. Yes,

(52:29):
that's what I think. Yeah,all of all of these people who
are sensitive or whatever putting their kindof energy and putting themselves out there.
But yeah, all this stuff isfascinating, and you have so much in
your books, a feeling that wecould talk about for the next three hours,
just things that people have never heardof, as far as all the
different legends and focal And then,like we said in the beginning, who

(52:52):
cares what they're true? They makesome great stories exactly, and some of
the stories are our first hand accounts, and there's no reason for these people
to make them up. They're notgaining anything true. I especially like it
when there is they're not going tobe on a conference, they're not going
to be in a circuit, they'renot selling a book. Right, Those
are the more credible witnesses to me, even if it's outlandish. Yeah,

(53:14):
yeah, yeah, and especially someof the stories that come from like forty
fifty, sixties, seventies. Ohyes, there was a social stigma attached
then, yes, yeah, yeah, and those people definitely didn't have anything
to gain. There wasn't a businesslike there is now with the paranormal Right.
There was a lot of UFOs reportsfrom a few years after Roswell where

(53:37):
there would be quote citations from peoplewitnesses, but they none would give their
name. So yeah, there wasa lot of social stigma attached now to
that. One still is how muchdoes the UFO phenomenon go out in Appalacha.
It's not kind of a part ofthe country. You really hear a
lot about the UFO stuff. Itis not, but it is quite prevalent.

(54:00):
Brown Mountain lights, the Brown Mountainwe had well that's two hours from
me because it's through the mountains.But we had a gentleman who had contact
with who he described as a gaseousbeing from Venus that lived inside of the
mountain, and then he came incontact with very voluptuous, attractive Venusian women

(54:23):
that came from the planet Pee Whammy. Don't know where he came up with
it. He also I've been tryingto get a hold of his book,
but it's impossible to get without spendinga fortune. He also had what he
said was a mummified alien. Fromwhat I can tell, it was probably

(54:45):
a mummified monkey, but I needthe book to go further into that one.
Yeah. Yeah, So, likeI said, you haven't been busy
for a month. You haven't puta book out on the mind. I
know, I know. So whatdo you What do you have planned come
out for the rest of the year. I have no idea. I'm sure

(55:06):
something will catch my attention. I'llgo what you know, I need to
look into this. Yeah, yeah, I was. I was thinking about
doing a more interesting occult connection tothe dog Man. There's a lot of
there's a lot of a cult creatinga thought form, and the people who

(55:28):
are participating in said ritual would themen would put on dog masks. It
was to increase their virility, theirstamming a charisma and failure to finish this
ritual by themselves would create this doglikethought form. And this goes all the

(55:49):
way back to Alistair Crowley. SoI was thinking about maybe I should do
videos of these things that a littletouchy, not too it's a niche kind
of interest. Yeah, but thatsounds interesting though. I mean with Alisair
Crowley, his all the ship hehad his hands in was just crazy.
Oh yeah yeah yeah. Some ofthe stories that have come out about him

(56:14):
and his connections and it's just aninteresting, definitely interesting person. He was
quite the chaotic character. Yeah.Yeah. And so everybody can find your
books on Amazon. They can justsearch my name justin HGS and they'll all
pop up. And you have theSouthern Appleachan Focal series, which right now
you have three books then yes,and then you have a Appleachian Appalachian Cryptis

(56:37):
and Monsters, yeah, and variousother books other books, yeah, kind
of the newest ones. Well,I mean I could sit here and read
all of them, but you havelike a whole page, you know,
scribbled down. I like my research, and then I'm like, well maybe
someone else will like this. Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's great.
I love how how you wrote thebooks kind of in a it's almost

(56:58):
like a reference book for all thesedifferent stories and things, and it's yes,
yeah, I like that because it'sfor me as an investigator and I'm
looking for specific type stories. Itmakes it very easily easy that I can
go to one of your books andsay, okay, you know here you
have your bibiography, so there's moreresearch on it and things like that too.
So yes, it's often joked thatmy bibliographies are a little too large,

(57:20):
but I'm like people might need toknow right right, and where you
got the information from. Yeah,yeah, yeah, because people like me
like to dive down those rabbit holes, so exactly. Yeah, when I'm
stuck on a topic, so mand we just kind of jumped around here
today from a few of his differentbooks. So y'all go check out Justin
H. Guess's books on Amazon.And thanks for coming on today and chatting

(57:45):
Justin. I enjoyed it, allright, Thank you. I hope you
have a good evening. All right, everybody, y'all say say another We'll
see you next time. Have agood day. Thank you for listening to
the Unseen Paranormal. Join me nextone's a with a brand new guest,
and please rate, review, share, subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or

(58:05):
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of the scariest things for Unseen sid