Debunking the Warrens with Truth or Demons Podcast

On this episode we are seperating truth from fiction when it comes to Ed and Lorraine Warren. We welcome the host of "Truth or Demons Podcast", Stevi!
On each episode of "Truth or Demons Podcast", Stevi examines the lives of Ed and Lorraine Warren and the cases that made them famous. She seperates fact from fiction to find out what their REAL intentions were!

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Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Join us as we dive into thehistory, hauntings, and high strangers of
the world to try to better understandthe paranormal. I will be your guide.
I am paranormal researcher and investigator EricFreeman Simms. Welcome to The Unseen
Paranormal Podcast. Hey everybody, welcomeback to the show. Thank you for

(00:30):
tuning today, Thank you for listening. Really appreciate it. If you haven't
already, please go rate you theshow on Apple podcast if that's where you
listen, or give us a ratingon Spotify. That would be awesome.
If you did, you'd be amazing. Also, if the podcaster that you
use allows you to rate, pleasedo that as well. We have an

(00:52):
awesome show ahead for you. Butfirst I want to talk about the Night
House, which is the house thatme and my husband Bald that's two hundred
years old and is very much hot. You can go look at some of
the videos and audio stuff that we'vealready caught on the cameras in the house
over at the Nighthouse on Facebook andNight is spelled Kate and Ight. That
was the family that lived there forat least one hundred years and have the

(01:14):
majority of the history of the house. Also, we have a website that
is the Nighthouse ky dot com andhere soon we are going to open enough
for paranorl investigations. So if youhave a team where you and a bunch
of friends like to go out andinvestigate, we'll be renting the house out
overnight for you to actually stay there. We're gonna hopefully have a lot of
perks that you don't find at otherlocations as well, me as an investigator

(01:38):
and going out and you know,paying lots of money for places to rent
them out, I understand like youdeserve some of these, not even bells
and whistles, not even extras,but just normal things that are to me
are you know, just something thatyou would expect to be there. And
so hopefully we can give everybody agood time. And the house is amazing
and like I said, it's itdefinitely is ready to talk. And so

(02:01):
anyway, go check out the Nighthouseand please follow us on Facebook and keep
an eye on the website if you'reinterested in visiting. We're also gonna do
some historical tour stuff as well,So if you're interested in history and not
necessarily paranormal, or you don't wantto investigate the paranormal. We'll be doing
history tours as well, so keepan eye there and that will be happening

(02:23):
soon. So today we are talkingto Stevie who is the host of Truth
or Demons podcast, and on Truthor Demons, Stevie examines the lives of
Ed Lorraine Warren and the cases thatmade them famous. She tries to separate
fact from fiction to find out whothey really were and what were their real
intentions, because there's lots of thingsthat they put out there themselves that don't

(02:45):
make a lot of sense. Theytold a lot of stories and different interviews
and the stories change every time.So trying to separate fact from fiction with
the Warrens and were they really whowe think they were, who people think
they were, or they have,you know, different intentions. So if
you're a fan of the Warrens andthe movies like The Conjuring and stuff like
that, we're not trying to nottrying to shit all over that. We

(03:06):
just want the facts out there thatthey were people too, and they were
flawed just like anybody else, andwe're not We're just telling the truth.
And then understand that, you know, sometimes money gets in the way but
anyway, sit back, relax,enjoy this episode with Stevie from Truth or
Demons podcast and go subscribe to herpodcast. It is wonderful, the quality

(03:28):
is amazing. Any regular listen tothis show. You can find Truth or
Demons podcasts and she is wonderful.So without further ado, sit back,
relax, and enjoy this episode.We'll see you next time. Hey,
Stevie, welcome to the Unseen Paranormal. Thanks for joining us today. Thank
you for having me. I'm superexcited. Yeah, yeah, I was
excited to have you on because I'vebeen I've been keeping up with your podcast
and I think the premise of itis is amazing. But we'll get into

(03:52):
that a little later. So whatgot you into the paranormal to begin with
and to want to start the podcast? Well, it probably I did,
of course, when I was alittle kid. Like a lot of people
I hear say, it started aroundeight for them, and that was me
too. I saw my first ghoststory turned into a movie and I was
hooked. That was the entity,and I became absolutely obsessed with all ghost

(04:16):
stories, witches, all of thatstuff. Yeah. Yeah, I had
actually saw my first apparition when Iwas eight, so nice. Yeah,
around the same age and been hauntedever since, of course. Yeah.
Yeah, have you ever gotten someinvestigating or anything with that, Yes,
when I was a teenager. Somy mom is really into it too.

(04:39):
So that's a big reason that I'minto it and the reason I saw anything
I saw when I was a kidas far as movies go. Yeah,
and then I so I didn't.I never really investigated in a in a
real professional sense. We would dothings where we would pay either other groups
or locations to go do overnights orjust like run around Tennessee trying to find

(05:02):
public locations we could just wander inat night and try to have an experience.
So most of my ghosts investigations waswith my mom and us just trying
to see if we could have anexperience. Yeah. Yeah, there's nothing
wrong with that. I've been aninvestigator for over twenty years, so I've
put on a bunch of events.Actually, that's awesome. Yeah, you're
got to I mean, you gottastart somewhere and you gotta go out and

(05:23):
you know, get experience investigating somehow. So how did you come to start
Truth or Demon's podcast that started becauseof the conjuring movie franchise. When the
first film came out and I sawthe preview and understood what the premise was
going to be, that it wasgoing to focus on the warrants case files,

(05:45):
which I'd always heard about but didn'thave a whole lot of information on
as far as like it was neverreally mainstream information that I would have come
across on any you know, anyinternet or TV shows, So everything I
knew was just a mother shows likeyou know, Paranormal State, stuff like
that where Lorraine would guest start.And then when this movie came out,

(06:05):
I was so excited and it wasso good, and as soon as they
got to the villain, I stillloved the film, but I instantly thought,
this is outrageous and I don't believethis for one second, and I
need to know more. So Iimmediately started a deep dive into the history
of the story and the location andthis Bathsheba person, and that immediately drove

(06:30):
me to want to start the podcastbecause no one was talking about the truth.
Everyone was immediately on this kick ofBathsheba. Bathsheba is a villain.
I heard all the stories about howher grave got vandalized because of how the
movie portrayed her, and I justI needed to have this outlet for not

(06:50):
just myself, but for any anyoneelse who might be interested in the truth,
and I needed to put the infothat I learned out there. Yeah,
I kind of with my part,I have a litt connection with the
Warrens stuff as well. I've hadI had Andrew parent on Nice because i
want to know the truth about theconjuring stuff and I'm not a big fan
of like the modern horror movies.I've never seen a conjuring movies because I

(07:13):
knew automatically. I've just known fora long time that the Warrens we were
to me, they're frauds. Idon't know, I'll find out your opinion
later, but to me, they'refrauds, and they were just saying to
make money. And one of thethings with my podcast being connected to the
Warrens too. When I first started, I was told by a person,
and I won't say who it is, there's somebody who's deep in the paranorm
world and has been for a longtime, and they told me that if

(07:33):
I talked about the Warrens or ZachBeggin's that I would get blacklisted and I'm
like, blacklisted from what from?What? What are they black listening me
from? You know? So,what I'm discovering is that you don't get
so much blacklisted as you get likeblack bald as in they will start talking

(07:55):
all kinds of crap about you,They will spread all kinds of rumors,
and they'll throw things in how theystick. Then once they stick, they'll
perpetuate and you'll you'll basically get shunnedout of the community based on these false
reputations that they creative people, I'venoticed, And then the community is really
into trying to Like. The peoplewho will come after you for the things

(08:18):
you say or the things you tryto expose are the people that are trying
really hard to push anyone out thathas truths, that has any kind of
dirt on anybody that needs exposed.These people will band together, and I'm
seeing it happen to all kinds ofdifferent people in different angles, where if

(08:39):
you say anything against them, theywill come for you. Well, all
I can tell them is good luck. That's all. That's the only words
I got for them, because Yeah, it seems to me like these people
have more dirty laundry than I everwill have. So oh yes they do.
Yeah, and good like the tagginganything up on me because I've never
been to jail, never been aconvict of anything like, you know.

(09:00):
So you know, that's the funnything that people that are slinging on this
mud and trying so hard to getpeople banished or in the community are the
ones with criminal histories or you know, things that they don't play well with
others, and everyone's got a storyabout them, and it just it's really
crazy that people listen to anything theysay. Yeah. I also think because

(09:22):
of people that you there, there'sa shift that's starting to happen in the
paranormal community, just watching the pagesand people and things where people i mean,
even six months ago you try tocall somebody out for being a child
bluster or a sexual predator, andyou get all this clap back. But
now people are starting to kind ofsay, hey, wait a minute,

(09:43):
we need to police our own community. And I think it's podcasts like yours
that are kind of perpetuating this andhelping this along as well. Thank you,
I appreciate that, and I'm trying. It's hard when you have the
kind of people that are trying todeny the facts. So it's really important,
I think, and I've been commendedfor this having receipts. It's really
important to make sure you can backwhat you say and prove what you say,

(10:05):
because other than if you don't likethey do, people just see it
as another person spreading rumors that theycan attack. For Yeah, and you
and you have you know, thesepeople like you're talking about from from their
side from nesper and there's other placesthat are that are trying to gaslight you
and me and all these other peoplemake us look like the crazy ones.
Yeah, yeah, it's I justI don't understand it. I don't understand

(10:28):
why there's all this, so manypeople in the paranormal community that just doesn't
understand that there are nasty people.And then and then, like even when
you have evidence, like you're saying, you know, there's this confirmation bias
to where no matter what amount ofevidence you show them, they're not going
to want to believe it. Yes, and they will argue it. Yeah.
Yeah. And so so you watchingthe Contra movies, you wanted to

(10:52):
figure out, you know, whatthe real story was. So how did
you start going about that? So? I started first with like simple and
searches like who was Bethshiva Sherman,And then you'll the first things that will
pop up, or how she wasa witch and she murdered a baby and
all these things. But if yougo deeper into the search engines and you
read more than just the first couplelinks that pop up, you'll find things

(11:15):
about her actual history, her actualpast. Some of the things that were
said in the movie were flat outlies, and then some of the things
were embellished, and I just wentdeeper and deeper, and I ended up
on ancestries website, and that's howI discovered that she was, in fact
a real person that did not doany of the things she was accused of.

(11:37):
She lived to be an old woman. She did have three children,
one of them did pass away,but it was a time where children didn't
always survive, and it was nothingto do with witchcraft or evil or double
worship like she was accused of.She did not hang herself on the property.
And that's a big rumor, andthen they tried to change it to

(11:58):
the arnold woman hung herself, andthere's no record of anyone hanging themselves on
the property. It's it's interesting andthe only actual record of death they have
on the property is a man whodidn't even live there. I think he's
considered a transiend or a passer by, and he sat down drunk on a
cold night and he died after hepros to death. So it had nothing

(12:20):
to do with anything traumatic or no, you know, violent deaths or witchcraft
or anything like that. Yeah.Yeah, And if I remember correctly from
talking to you Andrew, Bathsheba onlywas on the property a handful of time.
She never lived there or anything.Right, Yes, she lived on
another property another like a ways away. She's buried nearby, but she definitely

(12:43):
didn't live in that house. Yeah. And so getting on the hat trail,
how'd you get it onto the Warrens? Because I know the counjure movie
is based on them or whatever,but you know, the story's kind of
separate from them as well, right, And I think it was because once
I learned that that story about Mathsimain the film was so not true,

(13:05):
I decided I needed to look moreinto the warrants because if this movie is
supposed to be based on their livesand their case files, then what else
are they lying about? And beforeI knew it, you know, the
next movie was out and it waseven worse as far as telling FIBs goes.
And I just kept looking into theWarrens more and following their history and

(13:28):
trying to compare it to the movies. And then I also found people that
knew the Warrens and compared their experienceswith the Warrants to the movies versus you
know, the research, and itjust it's a big revolving door. It
feels like sometimes I'm going back andforth all the time trying to follow up
and compare and find out what's real. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I

(13:52):
And I like how you've done thepodcast where you start at the very beginning
about talking, you know, aboutthe Warrens early history before they were ever
married and how they got together,and starting from the very beginning, because
you know, that tells you alot about somebody as well. Even back
when Ed Warren which is not evenhis real name, it's his name is

(14:15):
what Warren Edward minor and Warren Edwardmighty yeah miney yeah, but you know
he he there's a there's a recordof him assaulting somebody and stealing from them.
Yeah. When I found that,I thought, oh my goodness,
this is so like if you knowEd and you watched him over the years

(14:37):
and his very polittle personality, itwas it was very interesting and telling to
know that he was that way asa seventeen year old and he didn't get
in any trouble as far as like, there was no follow up from police,
and I'm pretty sure it's because hewas in the Navy and I'm sure
they took care of it. Yeah. I found it interesting how if people
go back and listen, they haveto go back and listen to the episode

(14:58):
we're talking about, but how there'sso much contradicting information in different records that
you found of the actual record versuswhat they said at interviews, and it's
all kind of weird and muddled.Yes, they go back and forth.
Yeah, even on like tiny detailsdon't really matter. They've changed up over

(15:18):
the years in interviews and things.Yes, And cracks me up. How
you can listen to them talk abouta story in nineteen eighty and then in
the early two thousands, the sameexact story is totally different. Yeah.
What I like is exposing them too, because there's so many people who think
that they are, you know,the gods, the grandparents of the paranormal,

(15:39):
you know. And they're just theyes, you know, just as
shisty as like the Victorian spiritualists backin the late eighteen hundreds exactly. I
really think once they started understanding itcould be used like that, they really
ran with it. Yeah, Andthey've been involved with so many famous cases.
But then if you think about ittoo, the cases are famous artually

(16:00):
because of them or all because ofthem, right right. And my favorite
story when I first dug into theWarrens, I was trying to find their
earliest involvement with the paranormal that wasdocumented, and I found a story that
Ed himself tells where they went upto deliver a painting up somewhere and they
ended up in Hinnecker. And Edhad heard or read a story about a

(16:23):
haunted house in Hinnecker and he wantedto go check it out. So they
drive up there and it turns outit's the Ocean Born Mary House. And
Ed talks about how they go andthey visit with the man who owned the
property, and he tells them allabout the haunting, and you know,
takes him around the property and therain has an experience and this that and

(16:44):
the other and then in the sixtieslater either was the sixties or seventy of
them and whenever the man was aboutto pass away, he admitted that he
faked it all. Wow. Andso one of their first investigations quote unquote
was at a fake haunted house.Yeah. Yeah, and they just kind
of progressed, and like with theconjuring house, everybody doesn't know, he's

(17:07):
never heard the story. Like withthe conjuring houses, kind of what really
kind of thrust them even more intothe spotlight. Yeah, they lied about
that whole thing too, as faras there was no exorcism. It was
a seance and they weren't the parentsdid not call them to the house.
It was actually the twins and Ican't think of the name. One of
them was a self proclaimed demonologist andthe other one though I think his name

(17:30):
was Keith, Yeah, Keith andsomething Johnson, Yeah yeah, And he
actually went to a college where theywere speaking, and he's the one that
brought them to the parents' house andthey reluctantly let them in and they ended
up with the father punching Edward inthe face, right. Yeah. And
people don't talk about that, Yeah, because they thought and Andrew parent still

(17:52):
gets upset this day talking about whenher mother was stown across the room.
They thought her mother was dead,and all Ed cared about was tuing the
sounds. Yeah, and they triedto come back one more time and they
were kicked off the property again.So that one movie the Conjuring comes from
supposedly their files, and they wereonly there one day, not even a

(18:14):
whole day, right. Yeah.I actually got to interview Andrea as well,
and I asked her about some thingsabout that, and she clarified,
and she said that they never gavepermission to them, and so they didn't
end up writing a book about theirstory, but they did go to all
their lectures with the story and talkabout it, and they even put ads

(18:34):
in the newspaper that said they bewitchedFarmhouse and then would talk about the Parent
family without giving Well, according toAndrea, she says, they gave their
name an address, and then accordingto some people, they changed it.
But there's also a newspaper article writtenby Tony back in I think the seventies

(18:55):
or eighties, a late seventies,probably early eighties, where he changed the
name to Baron and the title ofthe article is something about a haunted fashion
model, and he's referring to CarolynPerrin and then proceeds to talk about the
ghosts that haunts his farmhouse, eventhough they weren't given permission, so they
changed the names and such, andlike, the whole reason the movie even

(19:18):
got made was because after years andyears of trying to get it made and
get the parents to sign off onit, they ended up changing the perspective
of the story to that of theWarrens, so they didn't actually need the
parents' permission anymore. Yeah, andTony is their son in law. Son
in law, yes, Yeah,and he's kind of carrying the torchs now
that they're both gone now, butwe can get into that level. So

(19:42):
yeah, moving on from the conjuringyou also have, which is probably one
of the most famous hauntings in historyall over the world, is that Amityville
horror. And that was what alot of people don't understand it that the
Warrens were majorly involved with that.Yeah, because they're I think the original
Amityville. They weren't. You don'treally see them much in the movie because
it was more about the family andwhat happened, So it wasn't focused on

(20:03):
the Warrens, and the book isnot really focused on the Warrens, but
they are very much behind all thathappening the book and the movie and all
the publicity. They kind of werepulling the puppet strings. And I think
so they're mentioned in the book,and the Jay Anson that wrote the book,
he gives them mentioned. But Ifeel like, because there's that whole

(20:26):
story of the lawyer trying to convincethe lutz Is to write the book and
blame it on demon so he canget his to get to fail off on
the demon thing, and they're like, no, we don't want to give
him any money. And then Ifeel like George kind of I have opinions
about George, but I feel likehe was a little greedy in this sense
and wanted the book to himself,and that's why the Warrens weren't included in

(20:49):
writing it and just kind of givena little bit of credit. Yeah,
but I think the reason that thathappened was because the Warrens were trying really
hard to investigate and the Lutzes didn'twant anyone to debunk them, and so
once they wrote their book and theymoved on and then like they brought in

(21:10):
because they had that news crew.They brought in the Warrens and then a
couple other psychics and the newspeople,and that's when it really started blowing up
for the Warrens because they were publiclyinvolved at that point. Yeah, I
heard a story about a doctor fromthe Society for Psychical Research from England that
came to the Mmerville house when theWarrens were there. And he actually he

(21:33):
was at the house talking to thefamily and kind of looking around before the
Warrens showed up, and he knewthe Warns were involved, and he kind
of got snooping around because he thoughtsomething was fishy about the house. And
he also claimed to be a sensitiveand he didn't feel anything in the house
that was all or anything, andso he wasn't believing their story. So
he's kind of snooping around the kitchenand he opened a drawer and found a

(21:55):
contract for movie rights and book rights, and wow, he was trying to
sneak out the back door when theWarrens showed up and they cornered him.
And because he was from this esteemedsociety in England that's been around since eighteen
hundreds, they wanted him. Theytried to get him on film to endorse
that they're the place is haunted,and he wouldn't and he finally got away

(22:15):
from them. And that was theone and only dealings he ever had with
the Warrens. Because the Society offacult Research is very serious about, you
know, investigating countings and things anddoing experiments and stuff. And yeah,
and I can't think of his name, but he was a big part of
that and h and yeah, hepublicly denounced it, but nobody listened to

(22:36):
him because there's so much publicity withthe Warrens and with the story. That's
really interesting. I've not heard that, but that's pretty wild, and I
wouldn't it's it makes me wonder whythe Warrens weren't more included in the movie.
Yeah, well, he just saidthat he found a contract with their
names on it. I don't know. That might have been something Warrens had,
you know, that never got signed, but that was one of the

(23:00):
that tipped him off that he didn'twant anything to do with it. And
yeah, yeah, and I talkedto doctor Callum Cooper, who's a he's
a parapsychologist, and he actually knewthis. He's part of the Society Cycle
research over in London as well,and Callum was younger, but he knew
this doctor as he was older beforehe passed away, and he got that
story firsthand from him about Amityville.That was really awesome. Yeah, and

(23:22):
I think I know that doctor youwere talking about. I think I've seen
him before online. Yeah. Yeah, he's famous with that with the Society
Cycle research and Mike, I justthe name is escaping me. Callum.
He used it an episode that Italked to him on last season and we
had a little we chatted about theAmityvill Horne and the Warrens a little bit
and and he was that's a storythat he told him there. But but

(23:45):
I found that telling as well.But that's kind of, you know a
little bit more behind the curtain,like a first hand account of them,
you know, being kind of fraudsand things. And also what really pisses
me off about that with the Amityvillehorror is that people really did die,
like not long before you know,they start publicizing this. This dude killed
his entire family, and the murderersget kind of overlooked. Yeah, and

(24:07):
and this family is getting blamed forthe Ambityville horror too, their ghost you
know, their spirits or whatever insteadof being remembered, Yeah, for the
kids being slaughtered in their beds bytheir brother, you know, and the
parents being slaughtered by their son.Yeah, it kind of gets overshadowed by
this fake story that's been perpetuated foryears. Yes. And so after that,
the Warrens, they, I meanthey were on a roll after the

(24:30):
war in the contry, Yeah,they really were. So where where did
they Where did they end up next? So there was a lot of stuff
going on in this time period.Actually it was right like right at the
same time of Amyville was the LinleyStreet hunting and even though that's not considered
one of their cases, they hada big involvement in it. Yeah,
And that was in Bridgeport, Connecticut. And then very in the very similar

(24:53):
time frame was the Infield story aswell, where they went ran over to
England for a day and claim tohave saved this family's life, you know,
when they didn't. Yeah, Andit's funny if you go and watch
there's a documentary, a really gooddocumentary where they use the original tapes that
they recorded, the audio tapes andthey just have I don't know if you've

(25:14):
seen this about the in Poltergeist's onApple Plus TV. I've been meaning to
watch that. I actually saw that. I have it on my watch there.
It is phenomenal and anybody interested inthat case. The investigators who were
actually investigating it recorded audio basically twentyfour to seven trying to catch this phenomena,
and they use the audio with actorsto reenact the entire the entire case.

(25:38):
And I don't remember the Warrens beingmentioned on there once in that whole
documentary. So yeah, yeah,they were there. They do have a
recording of their own, but it'syou know, of course, not very
long and not very convincing as faras like they talk about it in their
book and how terrifying it was.And then you listen to the actual recording
and they're goofing off and they're allowedthing and nothing is flying around. Yeah,

(26:03):
I don't in that document I don'tremember anything, because like I said,
therese were the actual investigators who werestaying there twenty four to seven for
months on end, you know,trying to figure out this Poulter Geis activity
and the terrified family. But yeah, it's it's so interesting that they just
like they like they inserted themselves forone day, just like the Conjuring House,

(26:23):
you know, for one day,and now they're making movies about these
things. And then like you getto Annabelle, which is a very interesting
story in itself, and then thefact that they chose to use this completely
different doll for the movie. Sothat's what people think Annabel is. But
Annabel's just a raggedy and doll.Yeah. I actually saw someone on Reddit
having an argument and this woman wasconvinced she had one of those movie Annabell's

(26:47):
when she was a child, andI'm sure some prop master made that.
Yeah, Oh yeah, Tony Rosen'smade it. Yeah. Yeah, so
it was just made specifically for themovie. There's no doll that ever looked
like that before the movie. Andthe man that made it that was his
first major gig. Oh wow.I've not seen any of those movies.
I mean, just for full disclosure, I've not seen any of the Warren

(27:07):
movies. I understand sometimes I can'tget through them very easily. I've watched
them all so many times, andsome of them might have to stop and
start over and over again. Andwith Annabel I'm I'm on the fence about
haunted objects to begin with. Andyou know, the story of Annabelle from
the Warrens perspective doesn't make au wholelot of sense to me either. And

(27:29):
I know there's a lot of contradictingstories as well, if it even happened,
or you know, if however thisdoll supposed to got haunted even happened,
or anything like that. So what'sthe story behind Annabelle? This is
one of my favorites because I didso much deep research on annabel simply because
when I started the podcast, Igot under the skin of the nest for

(27:52):
members a little bit. The NewEngland Society for Psychic Research and their lead
investigator is a man named Dan,and I did a couple of interviews that
he was kind of upset about justbecause of who the people were, not
because of what they said, Andhe decided to reach out to me and
initially wanted to tell me, quoteunquote his side of the story, which
I didn't really understand. But hedidn't tell me a side of any story.

(28:15):
He just wanted to tell me thathe knew Annabelle was real because when
he was eight years old he witnessedthe motorcycle accident that she caused, where
the man died and the woman spenta year in the hospital. Do you
know that story? Uh? Yeah, yeah. I don't know if the
audience is familiar with it. Soit's it started. It started coming around
about the mid eighties. I wouldsay, it's on the Seekers of the

(28:38):
Supernatural TV show from back then whereEd talks about it. And apparently there
was a man that came a manand his girlfriend came to museum and they
were inside the museum and they weremocking Annabelle and Ed saw them and asked
them to leave, told him,you know you can't do that, you
need to leave. So they leftand on their way out there, they

(29:02):
were riding a motorcycle and they hita tree and the man apparently died instantly,
and the woman spent a year inthe hospital. And the Rain says
this too. She tells this storyin another interview where she knew the woman
and the woman's spent a year inthe hospital. So Dan decides to tell
me the senior lead investigator of nespercurrently that when he was eight years old,
he was riding down and this isreally funny because he had to tell

(29:25):
me a specific road, and hesaid it was Route twenty five, headed
towards Route eight towards Bridgeport, fromn Road to Bridgeport, and the motorcycle
apparently passed him and his father goingtoo fast and went around him, and
the dad made a comment about howthey're going to wreck they're going too fast,
and they come around the corner andthey see they have in fact wrecked.

(29:45):
The man apparently passed away, andthe woman, he said he saw
her on the side of the roadholding her head and she was bleeding.
And he's very detailed about this story. He says he was eight years old.
He says, you know the roadit was on and everything. And
because he did, it really irgedmy nerves because I felt like I was
being lied to from the second heopened his mouth, and so I went

(30:07):
I went into the research and ifthat happened on that road, there would
have been some sort of record,There would have been a newspaper article,
there would have been something. SoI started searching. I can't find any
newspaper articles whatsoever that coincide with thisstory. There's plenty of motorcycle accidents,
plenty of fatalities, even unfortunately,but none of them include a female passenger

(30:29):
that lived. So since they can'tfind these records, I even contacted,
like I went really deep into this. I contacted the libraries. I contacted
the police departments that were local.The libraries even helped me contact bigger libraries
to see if maybe they had recordthat the smaller ones didn't. Couldn't find
anything. So then I turned tothis Facebook group. And the Facebook group
is of people who grew up inand around Bridgeport and Monroe in the seventies

(30:55):
and eighties. And I post andI ask, does anybody remember a motorcycle
accident where the man passed away andthe woman survived? And this is the
route it was on, and thisis the year it was in. And
immediately someone comments and says that roadwasn't open until two or three years later,
so there couldn't have been an accidenton it. So that debunked as

(31:17):
far as Dan's story is concerned.That completely made him out to be a
liar. I do not believe thisincident happened whatsoever. There is no documentation
to back it. But to furtherthat, because I got so into deep
diving this, I ended up locatingthrough a helpful anonymous tip, I located
the original Annabelt owner and also someoneprovided me with a newspaper clipping from nineteen

(31:44):
seventy five ish that was written byan author named Jillamaudio, and she apparently
was the first person to write upthis story in the newspaper. And she
was still around and still working.So I reached out to her and I
interviewed her. I got to speakto her about what it was like to
see Annabel, she got to takeAnnabel to the new studio with her.

(32:05):
It was really interesting to talk toher, But then to locate Annabel's actual
owner was really bizarre because she didn'tspeak directly with me. She spoke with
someone who helps me with my researchon another Facebook group kind of situation where
they had a little brief interaction whereshe declared the doll was hers. She
also declared that Hollywood makes up alot of stuff and that she didn't want

(32:30):
anything to do with the doll.Wow. So it's bizarre. The fact
that she exists, the fact thatthe woman who wrote the article is still
around and spoke on it. Itwas just wild to me. But I
still believe that the Warrantes made itup because of the Twilight Zone episode in
season five, episode six. Ibelieve the Living Doll episode. It's way

(32:52):
too much like Annabel. And thenthe fact that one of the character's names
is Annabel. Yeah, that's takenit right from Hollywood exactly. Yeah,
that's that's I'm with you that that'sno coincidence, especially with the storyline and
the name. And yeah, that'snot not at all, no, not
only Yeah. And then there's anothercase that they had a lot to do

(33:15):
with with murder. Again, theboy was supposed to be possessed David Glatzell,
and then the boyfriend or of hissister was her husband or her boyfriend
until they did get married while hewas in prison. Okay, so she
Yeah, but at the time whenhe murdered the guy, it was her
boyfriend, right, yeah, Andhe claimed this demonic thing influenced him and

(33:37):
he killed their landlord. I believeI remember the story correctly, right,
yeah, right. I have yetto cover this because there is so much
and I've been trying really hard togather everything that I can and like speak
to as many people as I can. But it's a really wild case.
Yeah. And the guy he's alreadyout of prison. He's been out prison
for a while. Yeah, heonly did five years for a Mansellaer.

(33:58):
Yeah. And that case. TheWarrens, actually, I believe they testified
that it was demonic influence and theytried to but they were the judge said
absolutely not, I will not haveit in my courtroom. So they actually
stood outside the courts and spoke tothe news about how it was unfair and
unjust to not give him the chanceat them testifying on his behalf. Yeah,

(34:22):
and you got to think all thepress they did, they were always
the ones out in front of thecamera, the people who were really trying
to help. These people never wantedany press, and that's why they got
fired from Lindley Street. They calledthe press and the family didn't want that,
so they sent him away. It'sI think about the Warrens is like
the first pair of Unity people,because I always say I'm not all for

(34:45):
Paara unity because the people who werescreaming pair of Unity the loudest are the
ones that they just want the attention. There's nothing about pair of unity at
all in the paranormal community. It'snot about unifying the community. It's about
them being the cult leader of theparanormal. Basically, that's kind of how
the Warrens were, Like they wantedyell the loudest so they got the most
attention, and they wanted to soundlike everything they said was straight fact,

(35:06):
undeniable, don't question it, thisis the way it is. Yeah.
Yeah, And so let's get intothem too specifically, like personally, So
with Ed Warren, did he everreceive any kind of training as a demonologist
because he proclaimed himself a demonologist.So I've not found any proof of that.
It's a bunch of hearsay. It'sa bunch a bunch of he worked

(35:29):
with this priest, he worked withthis guy, he worked with this clergyman.
There's a lot of names thrown around. There's a lot of rumors about
each of those names. The onlything I know for sure is he said
he was he was born a demonologist. He didn't try to be one.
He just simply was wow, yeahyeah. And there's also I saw her.

(35:53):
There's some question about Lorraine proclaiming tobe a psychic, because she really
didn't start talking about that until lateron, Like in the beginning, she
didn't say much about it, andthen all of a sudden she was psychic.
So according to Lorraine, it startedwhen she So there's so many different
interviews, and of course the booksays something else. But in one instance

(36:16):
she said she was a little kid, like eight or nine. Another instance
she says she was younger. Anotherinstance she says she was older. One
instance, she says her first experiencewith being psychic was she noticed mother superior
lights being different than another nun's lights, and she was reprimanded. And by
that she means like their aura,the light that surrounded them. She could

(36:38):
see that. And then in anotherexplanation, she says the first time she
experienced any psychic ability was when shewas at a tree planting on arbor day
at her school and they planted anew sapling, and she said, right
before her eyes she saw it growto its full maturity, and she looked

(36:58):
up to see its you know,big beautiful branches, and the nun noticed
her looking up and asked her whatshe was doing, and she said she
could see the tree all grown up, and they reprimanded her for that.
So there's a couple of different stories. I saw a story one time,
and I believe it was her aninterview with her that she said that a

(37:19):
case that they were on very earlyon, is when she walked in she
all of a sudden could talk tothe dead something along those lines, And
that was from her, And itmay have been when she was on Paranormal
State that she told that story,But that's the story I remember hearing from
her, was that she in oneof the cases that her and Ed did
early on, something happened to her. She passed out or something, and

(37:42):
when she woke up, she wasall of a sudden. The media,
Oh, wow, I've not heardsomething very crazy like that. Yeah,
I'll have to see if I canfind it and send it to you.
I did hear a similar one wherewhen they went to the Ocean Born Merryhouse,
she claims. So she claims intwo different interviews that I've seen that
she her first out of body experiencewas two different things. One was at

(38:02):
the Oceanborn Mary House she said shehad her first astral experience, and then
I think I may be wrong aboutthis, but I think in another interview
she set her first out of bodyexperience with Ananityville. So I could be
wrong about that, but she didsay two separate places, and the first
one was the oceanborn Mary House.Yeah, and see all those contradictions,

(38:22):
I mean they all add up.They all seem insignificant. Yes, until
like you've been talking about they haveall these different contradictions in different interviews.
If you're telling the truth, thestory's going to stay mostly the same,
exactly because you don't have to rememberthe lae. And then back then,
when they first started doing appearances andinterviews, you couldn't go and look this

(38:45):
up on the internet. You couldn'tgo and rewind it and watch it again
and compare it to the other oneyou saw a couple of days prior,
Like that wasn't a thing. Sothey had all this confidence in the world
to say whatever they wanted to say. Yeah. And the one that the
one person out of this entire thingwith the Warrens that I just want to

(39:06):
like and I've never heard a badthing about the guy is John zaffis same.
He just seems like he used nothinglike them, right, and actually
has the intention and has for along time. Other than the one TV
show that he had with the HanicCollector stuff, He's just been trying to
help people for years without being inthe spotlight. You right, And he
never involves himself in drama. Healways steers clear of it. He never

(39:27):
participates. And he said, shesaid, he's very much in it for
the reasons we want to be init, and the reasons like you,
people like you and me are doingwhat we're doing. We want the truth.
We don't want the drama. Wewant the real facts and nothing,
none of the embellished nonsense for money. Yeah, and for people they don't
know. John Zapfice is their nephew. Yes, he was babe a sister's

(39:51):
son. But yeah, I justhe's just the one I've looked for stuff
because I'm like, you know,he because he grew up going to cases
with them, and he was interestedin the paranorm even though none of the
rest of their families were, andhe got interested. I believe he went
on those first case with them,like sixteen or seventeen, maybe even younger
than that. I've heard that.Yeah, yeah, and yeah, he
seems would be the one that's themost like level headed and at least crazy,

(40:15):
And I've always found him to becredible. I agree with that.
And then we get to Tony,which what's up with the oven mits?
So Annabelle so it was brought tomy attention when I was when I started
the podcast that oven mits were usedto handle Annabelle. So I looked into

(40:36):
it. I went and watched thevideos and I heard them talk about it,
and it is explained. Tony explainsit. I believe Dan explains it
in another video. There's so manyvideos of them with the oven mits.
They're actually welding gloves. They're heavyduty welding gloves. They've been embellished with
saints and relics of religion and havebeen blessed by whichever priests they're working with

(41:01):
at the time, and it makesthem be able to make it. It
makes it so you can handle Annabellesafely for things like transporting her to a
suitcase to take her to Las Vegason an airplane and that and that wood
and glass case supposed to Yeah,so about that. Uh, they're on

(41:22):
their second or third one because whenDan joined the scene, he apparently felt
that the case, the current case, was not protection enough and rebuilt it.
So now it's the new case isbuilt by Dan with more protection.
Wow. The whole story is justwow. The more that I hear about

(41:44):
it, the more, Yeah,it's really hard for me to watch the
videos because there's so many people outthere who have made YouTube videos where they
get to go to the museum wherethey get to see Annabel, Where did
they get to talk to Dan andTony and do their interviews and hear their
stories. And each time I watch, it's just so hard to take in

(42:05):
that these are grown men who arebeing serious. They're not kidding. They're
not They're not They're not doing thisfor fun. They're not pretending that it's
real. They believe, well,they tell you they believe it's real.
So that is a whole other conversationas well. Well. I mean,
follow the money. Have you lookedwho's benefitting the most from the movies,
these big blockbuster movies. It hasto be Tony and his wife and you

(42:31):
know, the family, I imagine. I wonder about this. I have
not. I initially assumed it wouldbe Tony benefiting, or at least Judy,
because Judy is you know, theirtheir daughter, and then of course
Tony being married to her would meanhe would benefit. But I'm curious because
I saw an interview where Lorraine saidthat she sold she and had sold their

(42:55):
life rights to Warner Brothers. SoI wonder if Tony and Judy aren't getting
any money or if they did getsome, but it's not like a continuous
kind of thing, because they aretrying so desperately hard to keep Annabel relevant,
and they're trying so hard to keepthe museum items relevant. They've gone

(43:16):
and made a road tour of thehaunted objects, and they have their paracon
every year that they sometimes take Annabeltoo. So it seems like they're it
kind of seems like they're in needof money that they're not getting, maybe
as much as we might think fromWarner Brothers, because I feel like,

(43:36):
in my personal opinion, I feellike Warner Brothers is a little greedy in
this sense, as they paid onetime for the rights. Now they can
do whatever they want. Yeah,you know, that's the way it works.
And so that makes me wonder ifTony's getting any of it, and
if not, is that why he'sso trying so hard and getting so mad

(43:58):
at me. Well, I thinkit's a I mean, even if you
look at it as a byproduct,I mean, how how much more popular
have they become with the dolls?Yes, and all these conventions, these
conventions, who actually pay them tocome. How much money they're paying them
to bring this stupid raggedy end dollright right? And also this this recent

(44:19):
para con they're planning. They've beenannouncing all these celebrity guests. They have
the woman that played the Nun coming, They have Ryan Buell coming, they
have a couple other horror actors thatare coming. Like they're trying to make
this They're trying to piggyback off themovie like really hard. Yeah, they're
they're shasty people, they're fraudulent people, so they're gonna do whatever they can

(44:39):
to make money. I mean agree, they're perpetuating this, this myth of
you know, all these different mythsof all these cases, and so yeah,
I mean it's gonna ben fit themtoo. Whether they get money from
Warner Brothers not, is what Iwas getting at. You know, I
just think, you know, it'schrickling down to them with whether it's their
YouTube videos are popular or their socialmedia. You know, they're they're making

(45:00):
money somehow. But I would beI would be I wouldn't be surprised that
they're getting paid, you know,five ten thousand dollars to show up at
at a convention with the doll Ohyeah, well Zach paid him five thousand
dollars to bring Annabel to Vegas,so yeah, yeah, and then with
their own para con and then whatdoes they have? Nesper? And then
they have another society, don't theythey have so they have the Warrens Foundation,

(45:24):
which I don't think Tony has muchto do with. I hear different
things. There's a couple like sisterbrother companies to Nesper, and it would
be like the Warrens Foundation in differentlocations, so different parts of the country
has their own Warren's Foundation. Also, I think a grandson runs one of

(45:47):
the foundations. I think Chris ishis name. I haven't looked into him
a whole lot, but I've heardthat he is involved a little bit,
and he's also related. So there'sa lot. There's so much and so
many angles as far as like tryingto claim a connection to the Warrens.
Yeah, yeah, I just therewas some drama last year with one of

(46:08):
the warren Foundation, quite a fewof those people, with people getting kicked
out and other people being part ofit. I've had a couple of people
who are who have reached out tome to be on the show as guests,
and I get to read into theirbio as soon as I see the
Warren Foundation, like nope, nope, yeah, nope. I've been contacted
by a priest that was part ofthe Warrens Foundation and he offered to help

(46:30):
me, and I said thank you. And I'm always really polite and stuff,
but there are times where I don'twant the biased info. I want
I want stuff that people can't spinin any way, you know what I
mean, like a real experience orsomething that happened to them, versus an
agenda they're trying to push, right, Yeah, And I mean I just

(46:52):
look at it. They're trying touse my show to push their agenda.
Yeah. And Dan trying to dothat with me too, when he called
me and he wanted to tell hishe wanted to give me tickets to paracn
and let me in the museum andexplore and such. Oh, trying trying
to bribe you and are you That'sexactly how I felt. And I was
like, but you're you're you.You're talking to me because you already don't

(47:15):
agree with what I'm doing. Yeah, yeah, you've talked to some of
the friends of the Warrens as wellpeople actually kind of outside of their circle
of the paranormal stuff. What didyou what did you learn about them from
talking to some of those people.So one of my favorite guests that did
have really extensive experience with the Warrensas far as like he could call them

(47:36):
friends was Frank Frank Tiafari And whenhe was a young man, he met
Ed, and Ed kind of tookhim under his wing and taught him about
paranormal investigation and you know, hungout with them all the time. And
some of the stories I heard fromFrank and his wife about the Warrens are
some of the sweetest stories. Theythey seemed like really as far as like
in this friendship, they seemed likereally good people, really caring, always

(47:59):
trying and include Frank and make surehe felt welcome. And you know,
it's just I love hearing Frank storiesbecause it makes the Warrens sound like you
would how you think they should bebased on the movies. Yeah, and
it's cool to know that that's thosewere real stories. Yeah. Now with
Ed, you've had stories of like, you know, the father of the
parents punching their face, and you'veheard other things about him being a high

(48:22):
head. But the rain, likeall the stories I've ever heard about her
when people have met her, wasthat she's a very very sweet lady and
ye never really said a bad wordabout anybody. That's just kind of what
people have said about her. Iwant to believe myself that the Warrens originally
got into it to do good things, like Hans Holtzer and these others,

(48:44):
you know, who started the pandormas we know it nowadays. And maybe
that's just my me. Wouldn't havefaith in humanity that these people wouldn't start
out just trying to defraud people,right, But I want to believe that
they started out with good intentions tohelp people, and then the money just
got in the way. I hearthat a lot exactly, that that they

(49:05):
started out with their hearts in theright place, they knew what they wanted
to do, and it's so easyto get blindsided by fame and money.
Yeah, And I don't want peopleto think that that. I just think
that they're just the worst people everand that they hurt the paranormal community.
I think they did lots of goodthings by bringing it to the forefront and
bringing you know, bringing press toit, right, and the whole like
beginning to investigate. We investigate becausethey investigated, right, Yeah, So

(49:30):
I think I think they have theirplace. And the same as like Zach
Beggins, I can't stand him,but and I don't agree with what he
does and with this TV show,But with his TV show being so popular,
it helps the mainstream, you know, it helps in the long run.
It helps my podcast. It helpsyour podcast because more people you know,
are into the paranormal want to hearthese stories exactly. Yeah, and

(49:52):
then people that want to dive deeperare the ones to find us, and
those are the audience members we want, right right. So I don't want
to just think that I don't wantpeople out of there the audience think that
were just villifying these people. Wejust want the truth out there. I
get that a lot. I havepeople that won't even listen to the show
and they're already on this opinion ofI hate the warrants and all I want

(50:13):
to do is bash them, Andthat's not the case at all. I
even had a conversation on another showand then I had them on my show
where we discussed how two things canbe true at once. The warrants could
have been really decent humans with reallyheartfelt missions, but then money also could
have made them feel they needed moreof it. You can be nice and

(50:35):
still be greedy, right right,yeah, yeah, And like I said,
I just I'm with you. Ijust want the truth out there.
I want these people not to beput on a pedestal as much as they
are. I want people to understandpeople to stop being perpetuated, right right,
Yeah, they were people and theywere fallible. It doesn't mean they
were evil or had evil intentions exactly. And so my thing with Ed,

(51:01):
I had a moment because I hadreally strong opinions of Ed when I started
my podcast, because of some thingsI've heard and some of the things I've
read. And then I read astory about Ed when he was very ill
and hospitalized, and it pulled atmy heart so much that I wanted to
cry for the man because his religionwas so ingrained in him that when he

(51:25):
was sick in a hospital bed,he had a nurse come in and check
on him. And according to thisstory I read, I don't know if
it's true or not. I thinkI read it on the internet of like
an account of someone who had thisexperience with him, and apparently when he
opened his eyes, the nurse wasleaning over him to check on him,
and the nurse happened to be wearinga pentagram around her neck, and he

(51:45):
got so scared he started screaming forher to get away from him because he
was scared of her necklace. Andthat, to me, is a lack
of knowledge. It's a fear basedon lack of knowledge. And he didn't
know that she wasn't evil just becauseshe was wearing that necklace. He truly
believed that. So it made myheart hurt a little bit for him that

(52:07):
his knowledge was so limited by hisbeliefs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And also it could it could veryvery well be one of those things.
You know, if you go lookingfor someone hard enough, you'll find it.
You'll find evidence of it. Ifthat's if you have that tunnel vision,
you will find exactly what you're lookingfor every time, even though it
might not be rational or anything ofthat. You'll find signs that what you're

(52:31):
looking for is real and happening,you know, right right, yeah,
yeah, confirmation by it, yeahyeah. And and so yeah, I
just want I wanted to kind ofend on that of you know that we're
we don't think these people were thedevil or demons, you know, and
and and I never took that.I haven't taken that from your show at
all, and so I appreciate that. Yeah. No, I think the

(52:52):
way that you're approaching it, Ithink you have not villainized them at all.
I think you're putting the facts outthere and down to the individual,
like I was talking about the individualdetails of Okay, well, you know,
one interview they said this, anotherinterview they said that, So you
make up your own mind, youknow what the true story is because we
don't know exactly. So what doyou have next for the for the podcast

(53:16):
coming up? Because I know youjust went through some shit with him fighting
with you because Tony had a gueston who was actually is a convicted child
molester, and yeah, he calledhim out. They kind of got some
You got some clap back from themfor that very much. So they're very
upset with me. I am stillbeing harassed by followers of Joe who support

(53:43):
him. It could be Joe.I honestly don't know. I know one
of the comments was Joe. Itused he actually used his name. But
there's another person that has said,you know, I'm going to be sorry
when he gets exonerated and comes forme and all this drama. But then,
of course Nesper's really mad at metoo, because they tried to platform
this man with Okay, so beforeI even knew about his crimes, I

(54:07):
was upset because they were trying toplatform this man with a story that was
not his own. He made upa story to include himself in the very
famous, very well documented Lenley Streethaunting, and Tony only saw dollar signs.
He immediately thought, I can writea book about this. We can

(54:28):
resurrect this story with this new information, this new character that no one can
disprove in any way because everyone elseis gone. And they have this man
on this YouTube interview where he's tellinghis story about how he was seven years
old and he was in this housewith this haunting, with this little girl
who actually did experience it. Hername is Marcia, and the whole time

(54:52):
he's talking so ill of her,it was making my blood boil. He
was talking about how she was abusiveto him, how she all he wanted
was to be loved, and shejust made him feel like he wasn't wanted,
like he just said so much terriblethings about her, and my blood
was boiling and I was so upset. And my mission was not to expose

(55:13):
his criminal record. My mission wasto expose him as a liar for this
story. And that immediately led meto his criminal record. The moment I
looked up this man to find outwho he was and if he had any
ties to Bridgeport, Connecticut in nineteenseventy four, all of his reports pulled
up, and there are many.There is only one of the sexual assault

(55:34):
on him on minor under fourteen,but he's got domestic violence charges, he's
got assault on police officers. He'sgot umpteen traffic violations. I don't know
how you can get that many trafficviolations, and in multiple states. So
for my trolls to be coming atme the way they are and telling me
that Joe is a good man andnone of this is true and I'm going

(55:57):
to be sorry just really kind ofcracks me up. Well, and I
mean, the charges for the sexualassault on the minor were like twenty something
years ago, So how's he goingto get exonerated? Well, yeah,
exactly. So that was another thingwhen Tony finally admitted that this was what
was going on, and then theydecided not to plan platform him anymore.
He made a comment how it wasso long ago, And yes, it

(56:20):
was in nineteen ninety seven that thischarge, particular charge, but just last
year he got a failure to registerfor that charge. If you are a
convicted sex defender, what other reasondo you have except to hide that you
don't want to register. If youare so innocent and you are trying so
hard to exonerate yourself, why arethese charges still happening. Well, I'll

(56:45):
tell you a little personal experience ofmine with somebody like that. I have
a family member who was charged ontwo counts of rape of a child and
was found guilty in back in thenineties. I tell you right now,
he has not changed one bit whatsoever. He's still the biggest pervert that he
ever has been and he will neverchange. And there's been other allegations that

(57:10):
have come out against them that couldn'tbe proven, and he's done the same
thing. He's actually used my addressone time to register when he does not
live here because at the time hewas living next door telling elementary school,
oh my goodness. So so Iknow people can change, but I don't
think people like that change. Notin my experience. I have to agree,

(57:30):
and especially with like the mold,there's so many charges and for him,
if he really did so, ifit was a misunderstanding or if it
was an us I hate to say, a slip it's not a slip up.
There is no excuse for these charges. But there are times when people

(57:52):
lie or charge is invalid or whatever. This is not one of those times,
in my opinion, because if itwere, it would have been cleared
up a long time ago, andhe wouldn't still be trying quote still be
trying to clear it up. Now, that's not how that works. Yeah,
yeah, And it's the same withmy family member. The rap his
rap sheet is you know, amile long, you know, and and

(58:15):
so there's nothing there that would evertell me that he didn't do what he
was you know, found guilty forin time in prison for, you know,
same with this guy. And likeI said, you know, I
just don't those type of people are, whether he's been caught again or not.
And this is just my speculation,my opinion. I don't know this
guy, and he just has theone charge, but there's usually suspicion around

(58:37):
them for other crimes that are similar. Whether those can be proven or not,
I don't know, but you know, so it's a it tends to
be like psychologically, it tends tobe a pattern of behavior, is what
I'm getting at. I don't knowthis guy, like I said, and
that's just my opinion, But thosethose type people, in my opinion,

(58:58):
in my sperience, don't change.They continue to behavior whether they get caught
in it or not. I agree, And I feel like when they're trying
so hard. So when he wenton Tony's show and they were telling this
story, Tony says, at thebeginning, some of the names will be
changed for the privacy of those involved. The only name that was changed was

(59:21):
his name. And if you're adecent, honest person, you think you'd
use your real name. But thenthat would, of course, in turn
expose his criminal history. But ifyou have that criminal history and you know
that people will find it, you'regoing to change your name and expect you
to wait with it, right andeven at the very least, even if

(59:43):
you didn't have that criminal history,if he used his real name, the
people that were involved with that casethat he's trying to insert himself into as
far as the haunting. You know, they might come out and say,
no, he had nothing to dowith it, So he's going to use
a Yeah. And there was evensomeone in the common while this whole life
was going on where he was tellinghis so called story, where people are

(01:00:04):
asking, Hey, did you talkto Bill Hall, who is the author
of the book who did all theresearch for this case. Yeah, And
I talked to Bill and I askedBill this man, was this man present
for any of this? And hesaid he's never heard of that man.
Wow. And so that is mynext case. I will be actually covering

(01:00:29):
Lilly Street and telling what really happened. And yeah, and Joe has no
part in it. Yeah. Well, I think it's also these cases that
you're covering too. It deserves tohave the voice of the real story as
far as we can tell out there. And I agree, not just calling
these people out here trying to lieabout, you know, the cases and

(01:00:52):
trump them upon things, but yeah, getting the real story out there too,
honored the people that really did happento because this is something that happened
in these people's lives that was probablyhorrific, exactly. And for Joe to
come out and say all these negativethings about Marcia. Who isn't around to
defend herself. Yeah, who dealtwith so much? This poor little girl,
Like from the moment she was born, she had it hard. She

(01:01:15):
was born into a you know,an abusive family. She was adopted at
four years old by a loving yetoverbearing family. Her adoptive mother was a
helicopter parent and never let her doanything, never let her leave the house.
You know, she was completely confined. And then this haunting happened,
and then she's the butt of everyjoke in town. Once it blows over

(01:01:37):
and they rule it a hoax,you know, once they decided it was
a hoax, she was just thebig joke. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Wow, it's there's a lot.There's a lot more too, yes,
so much. Yeah. And likewe're saying, we don't want,
you know, anybody to take awaythat this is all about trashing the Warrens

(01:01:59):
or Tony or any of their family. It's just about getting me the truth.
Yeah, Like I have nothing againstTony except that he lies. If
he didn't lie, there would benothing for me to have to say about
him. Yeah. Yeah, Andthey would just come out and say with
the Annabel Doll, like these arethe stories, but we don't know,
you know, right, instead ofperpetuating as this straight up fact right right.

(01:02:23):
And and I've you know, there'sso many people that think the movies
are true because it says from thecase files of the Warrens, you know,
yes, and they think down tothe tea that they're true. And
you know, Andrew, Andrew Parrinhas had this campaign. She was a
she was a consultant on the movie, on the first Conjuring movie, and

(01:02:44):
but she's been on this campaign eversince to set the record straight about what
really happened versus the Hollywood movies youknow that they put out. Yeah,
and so yeah, it's it's justa it's it's crazy. But I but
like I said in the beginning,I love that you know, you're out
there doing what you're doing with withtrying to bring the truth to light.
And uh, and all these otherpeople are too. It's it's kind of

(01:03:06):
a change. We need to changeso that we can get these sexual predators
and people like that, and thesefrauds and fakes out of the paranormal and
get down to the real reason ofwhy we do it. You know,
agreed of trying. All of usare trying to find you know, what
happens after we die, you know, I mean that's the ultimate thing.
So but I think and it's notfair for the public to be bamboozled left

(01:03:30):
right. It's why is it sohard to just give the facts and admit
what we don't know and we don'tknow it? Yeah, yeah, Well,
continue doing what you're doing, Stevie. You're doing an awesome job at
it, and I'll continue to listen. Thank you and my audience. Go
check out Truth or Demon's podcast.Wherever you're listening to this podcast. You
can also go check her out onYouTube as well and subscribe there and I'll

(01:03:52):
have all of the links in theshow notes as usual. So I'm go
check her out, and uh,thank you so much for coming on,
Stevie. I really enjoy the comversationand like I said, keep doing what
you're doing. Absolutely. Thank youso much for having me. I had
a great time. Yeah, metoo. It's my pleasure for sure.
All Right, everybody, y'all staysafe out there. We'll see you next
time. Have a good day.Thank you for listening to the Unseen Paranormal.

(01:04:18):
Join me next Wednesday with a brandnew guest and please rate, review,
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This helps more people discover the show. You can connect with me over on
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(01:05:03):
because it like the hide sun windows, there's God in that and where it's