Haunted Zoos, Museums, and Amusement Parks with Sylvia Shults

I have never really thought about zoos, museums, or amuasement parks being haunted. I have heard a few stories here and there but nothing like our guest uncovered for her newest book.
On this episode we are chatting with paranormal author and investigator, Sylvia Shults. We are discussing Sylvia's fun new book, "Gone on Vacation: Haunted Zoos, Museums, and Amusement Parks". We chat about quite a few of the stories from this book and we breifly discuss her other series "Grave Deeds and Dead Plots" Volumes 1&2.

Find Sylvia Shults on the webs and grab a copy of her wonderful books at these links
https://www.facebook.com/sylvia.shults

https://www.amazon.com/stores/Sylvia-Shults/author/B00QOCDMJ4?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1722389142&sr=8-1&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/%22Sylvia%20Shults%22?Ntk=P_key_Contributor_List&Ns=P_Sales_Rank&Ntx=mode+matchall

https://sylviashults.wordpress.com/

Host Eric Freeman Sims and the show on the interwebs

https://www.facebook.com/TheKnightHouseKY

https://www.theknighthouseky.com/

https://www.facebook.com/eric.freeman.1048

https://www.instagram.com/theunseenparanormalpodcast/

https://twitter.com/TheUnseenPara

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7Nm2o2t_a1TlqDgqlpxxUg

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-unseen-paranormal-podcast--5862293/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Join us as we dive into the history, hauntings, and
high strangers of the world to try to better understand
the paranormal. I will be your guide. I am paranormal
researcher and investigator Eric Freeman Simms. Welcome to the Unseen
Paranormal Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Unseen Paranormal.

(00:23):
I'm your host Stusill Eric. Thank y'all for tuning in.
Thank you for listening. I appreciate every one of you.
Y'all are awesome. I have an amazing audience. Thank you
so much for listening. This week we have another awesome
show that I was really excited to get her back
on the show. We had her on a couple of
years ago talking about Christmas spirits and all the spookiness

(00:44):
with how Christmas is really spooky, probably spooker than Halloween.
But she has a new book out, Sylvia Schultz is
called Gone On Vacation Haunted zoos, museums and amusement parks.
So just a fun show and places that you normally
don't think are haunted. Just a really cool conversation. Kind
of went wind it everywhere, but we had a good conversation.

(01:05):
I enjoyed it. She's a very very nice lady, very
smart lady, and a great author. Go out and pick
up her books. We also talk about her book Gravedeeds
and Dead Plots Volume two a little bit, and it's
when the true crime and paranormal kind of cross over
each other. And so, as John and I've talked about before,
true crime is my other forte. I love true crime,

(01:26):
and if I had more time, I would actually probably
do a true crime podcast as well on top of
this one, but it's don't have the time right now
with buying the Nighthouse and getting it up and running.
But yeah, go check out her books on Amazon, Barnes,
and Noble, and there's a small website called bookshop dot
com that they actually donate part of the proceeds to
independent bookstores if you buy her books, do there. So

(01:47):
check out her books, and also a Christmas book which
is awesome. You can find it there as well. I
just want to tell you all today, you're worth it.
There are people out there that care about you, and
no matter you know, if you're having a bad day,
fuck it. It's you are responsible for your happiness and
your mindset, and you need to get yourself out of

(02:08):
that funk of the mindset of that you know, everything's
going wrong and all that stuff. We can all kind
of get in that rut, in that hole I do
myself and I've got to, you know, kind of pull
myself up by the bootstraps and say, you know, tell
my brain, no, we're not doing this. I'm going to
be in a good mood. It's a good day. We're
going to make this a good day and try to
take that attitude every day. So just know that you're

(02:31):
worth it, and if you need help, there are people
out there that can help you. And there are always
people out there willing to listen. And so hopefully everything
is good with everybody and you are having a good day.
But we'll get into the show now with miss Sylvia Schultz.
Thank you so much for listening, Sit back, relax, and
enjoy the show. All right, Hey, Sylvia, thanks for joining
us today on the show.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Oh, thank you so much for having me Eric.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
I'm looking forward to it, Yeah, I was. I was
looking forward to having you back. It's been a few
years since I had you on. I had you on
as are some special talking about your Christmas book and yeah, yeah,
we had a good conversation. I think we talked about
your first Gravetys and Dead Plots book as well. Now
you have a second one out I do, yeah, yeah,
as well as Gone on Vacation and oh yeah yeah

(03:15):
talk about haunted zoos, museums and amusement parks. And we
were just talking before we started recording that, you know,
you think about haunted museums. Could you hear some stories
around about those? But zoos and amusement parks are kind
of especially zoos because everybody's heard a story about Disney
World and horror stories and things like that. But yeah,
just all that, there's all different kind of that. I
guess anywhere you don't think about those things, but anywhere

(03:38):
can be haunted, you know.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Oh absolutely yeah, but who thinks of zoos as being haunted?

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Right?

Speaker 2 (03:44):
But actually that is funny. You should mention that because
the way the book this came this book came about
was that someone mentioned to me that Brookfield Zoo in
the Chicago area is haunted. She used to work there,
and yeah, I thought, wow, what a fun book would
that be about to to write about haunt a zoos?

(04:06):
And then it kind of expanded from there. I thought, well,
maybe I'm not going to get an entire book out
of Haunt a Zoos. Well, let's let's expand it a
little bit, and let's do zoo's museums obviously, and amusement parks.
Let's just let's just go on vacation.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, and everybody I would love to go on a
I've been on a few hanted look at Haunted vacation,
so I can't say that I haven't. My last one
was a couple of years ago to Saint Augustine, So
we did a lot of haut stuff there, yeah, and there.
And it's not just like unknown zoos either. I mean
even like the Cincinnati Zoo, which is one of the
probably most well known and best zoos in the country,

(04:47):
is even in the book. And also I get asked
this question all the time. That's why I kind of
like that you have the zoos in there too. I
get asked all the time about animal spirits and if
I ever come across and I've had a couple of
experiences with dogs that I've had that have come up
and visited, I've seen them and things. But to see
the other animals in the zoos are running around the zoo,

(05:13):
it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, one of my favorite stories in this book. I
kind of stretched it a little bit. I didn't. It
doesn't technically have to do with the zoo, but it's
a haunted animal story and it was just too good
not to include. There was a newspaper that requested haunted

(05:35):
stories from their readers and somebody came up with a really,
really good one. They had gone on vacation, and this
is in the mid nineteen eighties, and they had gone
on vacation to a state park out west and they
were going on the trails. It was mother, father and
two boys and they're walking around the hiking trails and
they came across a snake and the snake was just

(05:59):
stunning itself on the trail, just doing it, living its
best snake life, and it was very tame. They approached it,
and it didn't care that it was being approached, and
the father actually picked the snake up, and it was
a pretty hefty snake too, and he was holding it
in his outstretched hands and there was snake pouring over

(06:22):
the front and the back. I mean it was a
snake of several feet long, and that the boys really
wanted to take the snake home. Because it was so friendly,
they kind of named it Slinky on the spot. And
the mother said, no, we're not going to take the
snake out of the park. You're going to have to
be satisfied with a photograph as a souvenir, and then

(06:44):
we'll let the snake go. And that's exactly what they did.
The father stood there held the snake, and the mother
snapped the picture, and then the father bent down and
put the snake down and it slid it her way
into the grass and everyone was happy. Now, remember this
is the mid nineteen eighties, so they didn't they weren't
able to see the picture right away. They came home

(07:05):
from vacation, they turned in their roles of film to
the photo mat, and they waited a week or so
to get their photos back. And they're they're going through
their vacation snaps and and all the and they get
to the state park that they found the snake in
and the father was standing there with his outstretched hands

(07:26):
holding empty air.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, yeah, you go.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah. You come across a lot of pictures online, especially
nowadays with instant pictures, you know, when people asking what
do you see in the picture whatever, But back then yeah, yeah,
the whole and the whole family seeing the snake, and
then it's just not in the picture that that yeah
up right, just out in the wild. Yeah, And that
makes me wonder how many other animals that you see

(07:55):
or maybe the spirit animals out in the wild and
you just say, oh, well, that's a deer or you know, yeah,
you're not going to go up and make sure that
it's real or that it's alive or you know. Right, Well,
I said the same thing about Bigfoot because one of
the analogies I use about Bigfoot is that if you
see a bear in the wild, you're not gonna go
up a poke in the butt to make sure it's real,

(08:16):
you know, that it's not a spirit or like an
interdimensional being or something, or like a time slip. And
so like with Bigfoot, maybe maybe we're seeing Bigfoot as
a time slip of an animal that lived or or
you know, the spirit of an animal you know that
lived a long time ago, but we're not People aren't
going up and touching them to make sure that they're real.
But yeah, that makes you think, Yeah, how many animals

(08:38):
out that you just see birds and other things every
day that may not really be not really be physical beings.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah. And the Cincinnati Zoo is the one that caught
my attention to in the book, just because it is
such a famous zoo around the world.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah. Yeah, that that is that that is the allure
of the since Natty Zoo is that there is a
phantom lioness. And it is kind of problematic because it
only appears to people when they are alone, which is
not the best for gathering evidence. But but yeah, that's

(09:17):
the You're you'll be walking down one of the paths
at the zoo, maybe maybe close to dusk whenever, whenever
it happens to be, and you'll you'll get the sensation
of being watched. And it's not your general oh hair

(09:39):
standing back and standing up on the back of your neck.
It's it's this feeling. And what I have been told
is it is a feeling of you are prey. Yeah,
it's much more than just ohen you know, spooky feeling
of being watched. And sometimes people will hear the padding

(10:01):
footsteps of a very very big cat, and every once
in a while they'll hear the cough of a lioness
pacing beside them like that, and once they get out
to wherever other people are the lioness vanishes, But yeah,

(10:22):
a lot of people have had that experience, and that
is part of the lore of the Cincinnati Zoos. That's
this phantom lioness.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah, that's uh, that would become scary, especially having that
feeling that like something's hunting you and that you can't
see it at all.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, it would be very unnerving.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
And the zoo's also, I mean, I'm sure they're haunted by,
you know, zoo keepers and things that love their jobs,
just like any other place, because that's also I mean,
to be a vet or like a zoo keeper, you know,
that's kind of labor of love, to love animals and
to take care of them. And oh yeah. So yeah,
so not just ghost stories as far as animal go stories,
but also people go stories of people's spirits that zoo's

(11:02):
as well.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Oh absolutely there are. There are a couple of zoo
keepers that I that I investigated in the in the
course of this book. There was the Fort Worth Zoo
is haunted by one of its zoo keepers, and also
Robert leslie Witt was a zookeeper that worked at the

(11:26):
Alexandria Zoo in Louisiana. The Alexandria Zoological Part and Robert
witt Uh He was known by Les but his middle
name was Leslie so Less. Witt was a zoo keeper
there in the in the early part of of the
of this century, and he was absolutely devoted to the

(11:51):
Alexandria Zoo. The Alexandria Zoo started off very small and
kind of on rocky ground with its fun and everything,
and people were like, well, I don't know if the
zoo's going to make it. But Les just poured his
heart and soul into the Alexandria Zoo. He designed exhibits

(12:11):
for the zoo and really brought a lot of people
into the zoo to enjoy the animals through the use
of interesting exhibits. He was not a well man. He
had a heart transplant in nineteen ninety four and he
used this second chance at life to the utmost. He
threw himself into his work. He would mentor young kids

(12:36):
who wanted to grow up to the zoo keepers. He
was always ready to answer questions. Anybody asked him a question,
he was there for it and he was absolutely devoted
to his zoo. He died in nineteen I'm sorry, two
thousand and eight, just six days before he would have
turned fifty seven, so he died very young, but he
has stayed at the zoo. He his wife actually took

(13:01):
over the directorship of the zoo after less past and
she has also just devoted her life to the zoo.
So it's really wonderful to find these these people who
who devote their working lives to the animals they love
so much. The fun thing about this ghost, the ghost

(13:22):
of less Wit, he'll kind of follow people around the zoo.
He'll get that again, the feeling of being watched, but
this time it's a human, not a lioness. But he
has a sense of humor. The animals. Animals pick up
on the paranormal much more readily than humans do because
they no one has told them they're not supposed to

(13:44):
see things. So the animals are aware of the presence
of the boekeeper who loved them so much. And every
once in a while, someone will walk past a cage
that has a perfectly harmless animal in it, like a

(14:06):
pigmy goat or a rabbit or something like that, but
they'll hear this really intimidating growling noise and look around
to look around for what's making the growling noise, thinking
they're going to see a Siberian tiger or something. No,
it's just like a pigmy goat or something. And that's
that's one of the things that that Les Witt likes

(14:26):
to do is best with the people that come to
this zoop. I think that's just delightful.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah. Yeah. And also that's another thing of like people
ask about like recent people that have passed away that
haunt places, and that's one of those that you know,
he recently died, you said twenty years ago and two
and eight and so yeah, because we yeah, so a
lot of people always think of ghosts like eighteen hundred's
or you know, civil war stuff like that, especially in

(14:57):
the South here because we have so much civil war stuff.
But yeah, there are a lot of countings here from
people who have not been gone that long. Our zoo
in Nashville actually has some ghost stories, but not because
of the zoo. It's because of the land that it's on,
and I know some of the stories in the book
about zoos or because of the land. Not necessarily the zoo,

(15:18):
but the National Zoo is on a what was a
plant I believe it's the plantation one time called Grassmere
and so so originally the National Zoo was like thirty
minutes outside the city before Nashville got really big, and
they had Grassmere Wildlife Park. Well, the house, the plantation

(15:38):
of the house is built like in the eighteen hundreds,
so the house is still there, the original house that
those people owned, and I forget the family's name, but
they they turned into Grassmere Wildlife Park, and so it
was just kind of it was kind of a zoo,
but the animal is kind of almost like a Safari
park that you could drive through, you know type deal
and see and see the animals kind of running wild.
And then back in the nineties, I believe late eighties

(16:02):
only nineties, the National Zoo merged with Widlife Park and
it became the National Zoo Grassmere. But there's stories of
people seeing things there of actual human spirits because of
the what was on the land before there was any
kind of you know, safari or wildlife or you know,
zoo type park there. And that that that mansion that's

(16:24):
still their grassmerim mansion. I've heard lots of stories about
it being haunted and they even do I don't know
if they're still doing them before COVID. They were the
actual lantern ghost story tours of the mansion around Halloween.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Oh how wonderful.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, but I don't know if any stories of any
any animals there, But it's always people, you know, that
are spirits that are seeing in the house and just disappear.
Because they only open the house at certain times for
people to go in. It's not something you can do,
you know, every time you go into the zoo. So
they opened up for special casions and stuff. So but
people have reported seeing you know, old lady the window

(17:00):
and things like that, and there's nobody supposed to be
in the house. Yeah, and so pretty neat story about
the zoo itself. But yeah, with the hauntings because of
what was there before.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Well wonderful. I don't have to explore that and put
it in the next volume. Have gone on vacation. I
am planning a second volume of it.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, no problem. But yeah, it's the
Grassmere Mansion, I believe is what it's called. And yeah
it's it's it's in the National Zooo.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Fantastic, I will I will look that up.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, so let's talk about some haunted museums. Okay, I'm
kind of on the fence about haunted objects. I call
myself a skeptical believer anyway, even though I've been investcative
research for twenty years and I've seen, you know, I
believe in the PARANORMALLL see too much crazy stuff. But
I'm kind of on the fense about people haunting objects.

(17:53):
But museums would be the place if they're going to
have haunted objects, it would definitely be museums, finitely.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, there's museums are just crammed with all sorts of things,
and these things used to belong to people.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah. One of the most fascinating exhibits I've ever seen
was Egyptian exhibit at the in Nashville, at the First
Art Museum, And there was just an air about those artifacts.
They just have like an don't like an otherworldly like power.
I don't know, it's kind of palpable. It was weird.
They were just awe inspiring, you know what they did

(18:30):
that long ago. And also the fact that you know,
Egyptians are kind of their culture is kind of romanticizing,
I guess in a way mysterious because we don't know
how they built the pyramids and other things, and did
things that they did, and they made such beautiful things
out of gold, and you know, ye.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
With ancient Egyptian arts since I was an early grade school.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yeah, as a kid, I was fascinated with King tut and.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yes, yeah, oh so beautiful. Oh man.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah. In this exhibit they had one of his outer
sarcophag guy that was all painted and decorated and it
was just amazing. Wow. And then the Tennessee State Museum,
there's always been a mummy in there, and I forget
the story where the mummy came from, but it's not
an Egyptian mummy, but it was a mummy that came

(19:23):
from somewhere else, and for for a long time they
thought it was an Egyptian mummy, and then they found
out of some other from some other culture.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
I wonder how that mixed stuff happened. It's kind of
not usual to a mistake in Egyptian mummy for mummy
of another culture.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
It's a weird I don't remember the story. It's been
a while since I've been in the Tennessee State Museum,
but it's a really weird story about how the mummy
came to be and when When the Tennessee State Museum
was in its old building. They actually just built a
new one a few years ago, standalone building. It was
actually in the basement of Tennessee Performing Arts Center, and

(19:58):
that's where you know, you got to see Broadway play
and all that stuff, and it's free to get into.
It still is, and so they built a new building,
and so we'd go see a you know, a play
and go down and see all the exhibits in the museum.
But I had asked one of the security guards one
time if they ever had anything happen, and she said
that she wasn't allowed to talk about it. But she's like,

(20:20):
there's stuff that happens all the time. She's like, we're
here before it opens, when there's nobody in the building,
and we're here because there's they're State Park rangers and
that that are at the desk there. And she's like, yeah,
when we're closing up, there's stuff, we see stuff. And
then she's like, I'm not really supposed to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Oh man, yeah, I'll tell you what. The security guards
are the sources of some of the best stories.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, but yeah, museums all around the world and you
have there's so many museums with so many old artifacts.
Some of them I would just I don't know, even
not even being on the fence about haunted objects, I
would just think some of them, like the Museum of London,
that the Victorian, our Museum in London.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Yeah, the Victoria and Albert Museum, that is a wonderful place.
I felt like such a jerk racing past all these
incredible objects, incredible displays of things, just to see the
two haunted objects that I've came there to see. But
to be fair, we were there pretty close to closing

(21:22):
time and I wanted to spend as much time as
I could with these two objects. Yeah, I kind of
walked past a whole bunch of other stuff. Yeah, the
VNA is home to two haunted objects. And yeah, well
we'll we'll, we'll just skip past the whole are haunted
objects and actual thing, Yeah, discussion just for the sake

(21:46):
of the stories. Yeah, there's there's the Great Bed of Wear,
which is this huge, huge bed that was carved in
the medieval period. And yeah, absolutely, I mean it's just
sitting there. These things are not behind glass, They're just

(22:06):
sitting out there. I was I was looking at it
and taking photographs of it and just imagining what it
would be like to sleep in this bed. And the
lore of the bed is that it's haunted because the
original carver, who made it in the medieval period does
not like people sleeping in it that aren't royalty. So

(22:29):
if you try and sleep in it, you're likely to
get kicked out of the bed and pummeled and pinched
and stuff. But I was, I was. I was standing
there looking at this wonderful museum exhibit and a woman
was standing there looking at it with me, and I
asked her, I said, do you have you ever heard

(22:50):
any stories of about this bed? And she said, in
this beautiful cut glass English accent, she said, oh, I
can tell you a story about this. I said, oh,
really tell me and she said she had used to
be a school teacher and she had she had brought

(23:13):
like a fifth grade class or something, rowdy kids. She
had brought them to the VNA on a field trip,
and she expressly told the young boys in the class
that they were not to climb up on the bed
and jump around on it. And guess what they did, right, Yeah,

(23:34):
not the kind of story I was looking for, but
kind of amusing nonetheless, And then The other haunted object
in the VNA is a chair that used to belong
to a woman named Eva Marie Weigel. She was the
wife of the David, the actor David Garrick, who was

(23:57):
a very very popular actor in London in the seventeen eighties.
They're about, it's this beautiful chair. It's upholstered in this
slight green, almost like a lime green tapestry, and the
lore of that is and I've seen pictures of this.
It didn't happen while I was there, but I've seen

(24:18):
pictures where there's a like a floridly in the middle
of the seat of the pattern of the tapestry, and
sometimes that floridly will kind of crumple as though as
there's somebody sitting on the chair, someone you can't see,
but is squishing down the cushion on the chair. So

(24:39):
I was hoping to see that, but I did not
actually witness that. I've just seen photographs.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Well, you're talking about running past everything. You see those
two objects. But in your book you put it has
one hundred and forty five galleries and four point five
million objects.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, the Vina is really huge.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, I don't know how many even in a day.
How the objects you could have went? All?

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Right?

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Right, there's another museum that I went that I went
to and I should have asked them about the hauntings,
but I didn't because we were so fascinated. You can't.
And in this museum you kind of you do your
own tour and it's it's the Medieval Torture Museum in St. Augustine, Florida.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Oh wow.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah. And you scan this qr CO with your phone
and their their exhibits are numbered, and so you play
the number for that exhibit. And I think there were
like fifty something exhibits, and they were recreations and they
had of course mannequins and things on on some you know,
within the torture device to show you how it worked
and things like that. And there were some interactive things

(25:41):
too that you could do, like pull up the guillotine
blade and let it go. But it was most of them,
most of the objects from a private collector who started
the museum. Yeah, yeah, I think that. I think it's
something like eighty percent of the objects in there were real,
like really the medieval times when they did, Yeah, a

(26:02):
lot of the torture they were actually used and but yeah,
I should have. It was it was a it was
a creepy but fascinating place. And they you had to
be you have to be eighteen to go in there.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
And yeah, well you know what if that museum hasn't haunted,
it ought to be.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah. Well, it's also in a building downtown Saint Augustine,
and every I mean, there's so much history in Saint Augustine,
with it being the oldest city of the United States,
that the building surely has ghost stories of its own
and the land that it's that the building is built
on because it's right downtown, right not far from the
city gates, which even the city gates, the original city

(26:42):
gates are standing to have their own story. But but yeah,
I should have asked them. Well, I did get to
investigate a haunted museum while I was there. I got
it for two hours. I got to investigate the Ripples
Believe or Not museum, the original one.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Oh nice.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, And I actually caught some photos of some shadow
play that is kind of weird. Yeah, you know, like investigators,
we take three pictures in a row, and I did that,
and in some of the pictures the shadows would move
like yeah, I have one, and it doesn't look like
a head or shoulders or like a shape, like a

(27:18):
particular shape, But I have one that I took. When
you go upstairs in the museum, they have a railing
all the way around and there's a big rectangle that's
open that you can see the ground floor, and if
you look up, there's these huge tiffany stained glass windows
that make up the roof and beautiful and they have
a back lit and and they're just beautiful. But so

(27:40):
I was taking pictures across that opening on the other
side of the railing, and and yeah, there's a in
the middle picture, there's a shadow that's on this wall
that's not in the first picture of the second picture. Well,
I got to investcap for two hours. But it's not
something to everybody goes and does. So it was very interesting.

(28:02):
And there's we kind of hung around this one voodoo doll,
I forget what it's called. It's not a voodoo doll,
but it comes from voodoo. It looks like a real
baby wrapped up like swaddled and the head of it,
but it's some kind of cursed object and it's one
of the objects that mister Ripley actually collected himself. Yeah,

(28:25):
and the building is actually haunted itself, and they haven't
exhibit about that as well. There was a lady murdered.
It used to be a hotel. It was a hotel
warden and that's the Reasoningly, what it was built was
as a hotel warden back in the nineteen thirties and
then actually it was built as a mansion and then
they decided the risk people that owned it decided to
turn it the wardens decided to turn it into a

(28:46):
hotel warden. Well, in the nineteen forties, there was a
lady that was murdered in the bathtub and whoever killer
was started a fire to cover up the murder and
so everybody was rushed out of the building. Well, they
have an exhibit set up to kind of show you
what the what the room looked like, the hotel room
looked like, and kind of the murder scene looked like,

(29:06):
and that was kind of interesting. But the building itself
is haunted, supposedly haunted by this lady and they never
found out who it killer was either man. Yeah, and
the building is it's interesting and it's you know Ripley's
believe it or nice. The very first one, and the
history of the building is interesting with the castle warden.
Mister Ripley stayed there before he ever started the museums

(29:26):
in the forties and fifties and early early early fifties,
so mostly the forties. Well, he kept trying to buy
the place because he wanted to put his museum there.
They would never sell it to him. Well, Robert Ripley died,
I believe in nineteen fifty he died, and his trust
actually a year after he died, they were allowed to

(29:49):
buy the building and to start the first Ripley was
believed or not museum in there. Oh nice, Yeah, and so.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
It happened eventually. That's great.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah, unfortunately, like a year or two after his death.
But he had these apparently he had these warehouses full
of these things that are in all his museums now
and all the ripple are not museums. Yeah. So that
was my encounter with investigating a haunted museum.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Very fun.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, what do you think is the most haunted museum?
Would you say that you that you put in the book?
I know that's kind of a loadly question, but just
as far as the story, like the stories and kind
of the I guess the occurrence of it happening. You
know a lot where a lot of people see things
or experiences.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, I would have to say, for my money, the
most haunted, like like different stories wise, has got to
be the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
You've got the coal Mine, which has when it was
put together, when the exhibit was was put together, they
actually got pieces of coal mines and equipment from coal
mines in which disastros had happened. You've got the Pioneer Zephyr,
which is haunted for some odd reason. We're not exactly
sure why. You've got the U five O five, the submarine,

(31:10):
and that is just splendidly haunted. Again. I talked to
a security guard who's that is kind of his beat
in the museum is the U five oh five, And
he was he's a big World War two buff anyway,

(31:31):
so he was just over the moon to be assigned
to the U five o five as part of his duties.
Because he was just all about that. He had a
woman come up to him asking if this Museum of
Science and Industry, obviously they got really cool stuff, and
she asked if the museum had hologram technology, and he said, well,

(31:57):
why do you ask. And this woman had seen a figure,
kind of a misty figure, standing at the top of
the Conning tower on the submarine, and she described this
person and it was it was a male figure, and
he was dressed in a dark uniform with an epaulet
on his shoulder. And from her description, the security guard

(32:21):
realized that the person that she was seeing is not
the man who usually haunts the U five oh five,
the German captain Peter Check. What this woman was describing
was the spirit of Captain Dan Gallery, who was the
American who captured the submarine. So apparently he's hanging out

(32:44):
on the Conning tower too. I don't know if he
and Peter Check ever crossed path, that would be interesting.
Peter Check was not the captain of the U five
oh five when it was captured. He had died before.
He actually committed suicide in the Conning tower. And well,
let me let me rephrase that. He he shut himself

(33:07):
in the head in the Conning tower and that did
not kill him. And the submarine was supposed to be
diving and keeping quiet, and that's that's the only danger
for a submerged submarine is the sonar and other subs
and other boats listening in. And you have to be

(33:27):
really really quiet on a submarine so nobody hears you.
And Peter Check was making a lot of noise. He
had just shot himself in the head and he was
carrying on quite a bit. So his second in command
had the soldiers the sailors take Check to his bunk

(33:47):
and put a pillow over his face and smother him
to keep him quiet. Wow.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
So yeah, I think I've heard I've heard that story
fromwhere before?

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, Yeah, that's that's the submarine that's at the Theme
of Science and Industry. It was actually Dan Gallery's brother's
idea to have it there. His brother was named John Gallery,
and he was actually a priest in one of the
Chicago dioceses. And he heard about the fact that the

(34:19):
Navy was planning to scuttle the submarine because there was
nothing else they could learn from it. And he's like, no,
you can't. You have to say this thing. And he
got together a petition to ask the Navy to donate
it to the Museum of Science and Industry. And there
were school children collecting pennies to help buy this submarine,

(34:43):
and that that's how it was towed to the MSI,
and it was it was stored outside for quite some time,
and they finally in oh gosh, like the nineteen nineties,
I think that sounds right, they finally brought it inside
because Chicago weather is not great for artists. So yeah,

(35:10):
it is. It is displayed inside now in a great, big,
huge warehouse like room that has other exhibits besides just
the submarine. It's really a fascinating place.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah. Yeah, I'd love to go there. That's one of
the museums I'd love to visit. I also want to
go and spend a week in Washington, d C. With
the all the Smithsonian museums.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Oh yeah, that'd be awesome.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, it's just like the Museum in London. It'd probably
take you a week just go through one of them,
because there's something.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
That's so Yeah, and it's interesting that the Smithsonian is
haunted by the ghost of Smithson, who never visited the
United States.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
One of the other museums that caught my attention because
I've been there and it just reminded me of another
story actually that experienced. I really didn't I didn't realize
I had so many museum experiences before we started again.
The Titanic Museum in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Oh, I would love to go there.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
It is amazing. I've been fascinated by the Titanic since
i was a kid, and it's wonderful. They have an
exact recreation of the Grand staircase that is beautiful, and yeah,
it's just amazing, and just the whole experience is awesome.
They're actually adding on to it, so I'm looking forward
to going back to it whenever they get that done.

(36:30):
But we used to go at least once a year
to the Smoky Mountains to Gallnburg and Pigeon Ford's on
vacation standing cabin for at least an extended weekend. It's
just if you live in Tennessee. It's just something you do,
you know. But the Titanic Museum, I had been there.
I guess it's been three years ago. We went in April.

(36:50):
I was in the chat of a live stream that
some of my friends were doing and they were talking
about this is a month later after i'd been I
had come back from Gallenburg. I was at home and
I was in the chat of this live stream and
some of my friends, Cisco and Steve's talking and they
were talking about the curse of the Titanic and all
this different curse stuff. At the same time that we
were talking about the curse of the Titanic and everybody's

(37:11):
talking about in the chat, and I was talking about
how I was just there at the museum. We see this,
somebody puts in the chat. Everybody go look at the news. Well,
while we were talking about the Curse of the Titanic,
the big ice chunk fell off the wall and fell
on five people at the museum. Yeah, so when you

(37:32):
go to the very end, at the very end of
the museum, as you walk through, you go up on
what looks like the bridge where the wheel is and
the controls. Well, when you go outside the bridge, they
have a they had a huge wall that was it
was like when your freezer freezes up with ice, so
that you could feel it. Yeah, so you could fill
what iceberg felt like. And it was like five foot

(37:54):
thick ice and this big wall of ice and five
foot thick probably twenty foot probably I don't know, ten
fitten feet tall, huge black of ice. And in that
same room you were like you were on the ball
the ship. You can stick your hand in twenty eight
degree water to see what it felt like for the
people that went into the water. Well, that ice wall.

(38:14):
The same time that we're doing the last stream talking
about the Curse of the Titanic, that ice wall fell
off and hurt five people. Oh no, And we were like,
what kind of coincidence is that? Wow? Yeah, nothing like
that had ever happened in any of their museums. And
they don't know why the wall failed.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, I've never heard about that. I've been to several
Titanic exhibits, not that one, but and yeah, I've seen
the ice walls. Yeah, and I've seen that. I've held
my hand on the ice just for as long as
I could stand it. And oh man, yeah, I never
thought of it calling gosh.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, but it was really weird coincidence. And I don't
know if I believe in coincidences with a supernatural but
in the paranormal. But at the time that we were
talking about the Curse of Titanic, that big ice wall
fell off, and that was really wow. And I had
just been there a month before with my you know,
my own hands on it, and been there in that
room a month before. It's pretty crazy and luckily all
the people were okay. They all being okay, but it

(39:11):
didn't kill anybody or anything. But uh yeah, and that
place has an energy if there's if there's any hanted objects,
they had to be from the Titanic that uh that
place has such an energy from all the stuff they
have in there that is just amazing. It's just it's
an amazing experience all around, if anybody ever has any chance.
I've never been to the one in Branson, but it's

(39:31):
owned by the same people, and I'm sure it's just
as good as the one in Pigeon Forde, Oh, I'm sure.
And the Smoky Mountains are amazing. And the Smoking Mountain
Pigeon Forde and Galliber full of ghost stories and and
all kinds of stuff. And they have a Ripley's Aquarium
which is amazing. But uh yeah, but yeah, that was

(39:54):
my other museum story. Weird museum stuff. Uh, let's talk
about some haunted amusement parks, all right, because there's some
place that they keep stuff hush hush when it happens,
like when people do get killed in things, it's you know,
you don't see a lot of that in the news
and stuff. They try to keep it hush husk. It's

(40:14):
not good for business.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Oh, it's not good for business at all. No, yeah,
some some most amusement parks do not want to admit
that anything happens like that at all. Ever. Yeah, I
was kind of I was. I was thinking to myself
before I started writing this, I'm like, how am I
even going to do this? I mean, there are it's

(40:39):
an open secret that the Disney parks are haunted.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, so I felt.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Okay writing about that. And then of course you've got
things like Lake Shawnee Amusement Park, which everyone knows is haunted,
and that's that's this whole reason for being is it's
no longer an amusement park. It's it's reserved, especially for
paranormal investigation. But then you have things like you know,

(41:04):
the the Six Flags parks, and a lot of those
are haunted too, but they don't want people to know that.
I was like, I hope I'm not going to get
in trouble for this. But I have a dear friend
who lives up right next to Gurnee, and she and

(41:25):
her daughter and I went to Six Flags in Gurnee
one day and had a delightful time, and she told
me all of the ghost stories while we were there.
And we went to see a show at the theater
and she she showed me a certain seat in which

(41:45):
a lady had a heart attack and died. So she
was telling me all these stories about Grandma Rose. And
Grandma Rose is a real sweetheart, and she she comes
to live when she needs to tell someone something, pass
a message along. And Liz actually ran into Grandma Rose

(42:07):
at a laundromat once and sat there and talked to
her for like an hour and a half, and Grandma
Rose wrote out a note with a message for someone
for Liz to pass along. And Liz said, I didn't
realize until later that I probably looked like a dork

(42:28):
talking to the empty air for an hour and a
half because Gramma Rose passed away several several years ago.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Wow wow.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
And she was kind of intrigued to run into Gramma
Rose at the laundromat because Grandma Rose usually hangs out
in the theater at the six Flags Park. But yeah,
she showed me this note and it was fascinating. So Liz,
I should say that Liz is a psychic medium, so
it's no big deal for her to sit and talk

(42:59):
to someone like that for an hour and a half.
But it does make other people wonder, right right.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Yeah, And with the music parks, of course, the first
thing that everybody thinks about is either Disneyland or disney World,
depends on which. It depends on which coast you're on.
If you're on the east side of the country, we
all think of of Disneyland or disney World in Florida,
And if you're out west coast is Disneyland in California.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Yeah. I had a hard time keeping those try and
they keep keeping track of which was on which coast,
And I think I've finally got it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah. But also one of the things you put in
the book that I found fascinating is that people bring
their ashes of their loved ones and dump them off
of the parks.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yeah, which you are expressly forbidden to do, right you, No, No,
And yeah, I hope by writing about that, I hope
to unveil what actually happens if you choose to do that.
Your loved ones ashes are going they're gonna call a

(44:05):
hipo code and they're they're going to suck the ashes
up into a vacuum cleaner, So it's best just not
to even do that in the first place.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yeah, and then they're going to go in the trash.
That's not where you love one when they end up
right right.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
So so I wonder if they're have any haunted vacuums, that's.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
A good question, or any of the vacuum cleaners haunted.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
But like there's stories about of all things in these parts,
the Haunted Mansion has some stories about it.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Yeah, there are some fun stories about the the haunted
Mansion that has more than more than one hundred, more
than ninety nine ghosts or however many they claim, Yeah,
there are quite quite a few.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
You mentioned the the Shawnee Using Park like swe and
that one fascinates me because it's what the history of
the land is interesting. That a family was killed by
the right the Native Americans there because of some settlers
that moved into the land and they were killed on
that land, and then there were some children that drowned
in the lake and that's they claim are on the

(45:17):
property there.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah. Yeah, you and I both know as paranormal investigators,
that's one of the big questions we get is why
is the place haunted? Is it something that happened there
or is it attached to the land. And with Lake Shawnee,
it's both. You had the Clay massacre, the massacre of
the three Clay children, and as seventeen eighty three by

(45:40):
the Shawnee tribe where there was let's see, Ezekiel was
taken hostage and taken to the village and burned at
the stake and Bartley and Phoebe Clay. Bartley was attacked
in the field when Ezekiel was kidnapp and Bartley was scalped,

(46:01):
and Phoebe saw this happening and ran up to the
brave that was scalping her brother and slapped the knife
out of his hand, and for that act of bravery,
she herself was killed and scalped too. So, yeah, you've
got the deaths of these three children and then having
their family bury them on the land, and then one

(46:22):
hundred and fifty years later you have this amusement park
being set up on the land, and there were a
couple of deaths in the pool there. On the morning
of July third, nineteen sixty six, there was a mother
who dropped her son, eleven years old off at the

(46:43):
park just and she said, hey, you go play, have fun,
I have a good day at the park. And he
was in the pool and he was exploring and he
found the drain at the bottom of the pool and
stuck his arm in and got stuck and could not
come up for air. So that is how that is
how he drowned in the pool. And then there was
another after that. There was a woman swimming in the

(47:06):
pool and she claimed that there was a force that
tried to pull her under as she swam. She nearly drowned.
She escaped drowning, but after that close call, the park
decided to fill in the pool with sand and they
did not have a pool after that. And then there
was also in the early nineteen fifties, there was a
little girl who was riding the swing ride. There was

(47:31):
a soda concession stand next to the swing ride, and
there was a trucker delivering soda to the stand and
he was backing his truck up and did not look
where he was going and he hit the ride and
the little girl was killed. And she is definitely a
big part of the Lake Shawne lore. Yeah, she has

(47:53):
appeared to many many people.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
And yeah, that's one of the places that I've seen
a couple of the ghost hunting shows go to where
they've had activity that actually thought was real, Like they
actually caught stuff on camera that they I don't think
they were faking. I think that place is really as
haunted as it is made out to be, just because
of the Native American history with the land with you know,

(48:17):
they think there's so many thousands of bodies buried around
that kind of in that valley, in that area and
with you know, it's just been a place of tragedy
too over the years. Another place, and I found this
interesting because this legend I've heard not just here at
this theme park, but at other places around the country.
We even have one out towards Memphis. But at sixth
Lives in Saint Louis, there's a pig man and an

(48:42):
out and there's a legend of a pig man out
in the Shelby Merryman Shelby Merriman Forest State Park out
towards Memphis. And this was a farmer who somehow got
disfigured so his nose looked like a pig and he
they still claim to say that he hung out there
and if kids go out there, you know, to park

(49:04):
into neck as they used to call it, to make
out that he he will, you know, that's when he
appears and scares them. Whether that's true or not, or
he ever lived or not, I don't know. It might
just be one of those, you know, urban legends. But
so there's a pig man. There's a pig man that's
seen at six Flag in Saint Louis too. But yeah,
I just find that that, like some of the some
of the tropes, I guess, like the lady in white,

(49:26):
pig man, goat man, things like that kind of Also,
there's another story in the book somewhere. It may be
in your other book and may be engravedy dead plots,
but about the kids. If you put powder on the
back of your car, the kids handprints will show up.
That's another trope that I've heard about all across the
United States, with the legend the kids pushing your car

(49:48):
over the train tracks.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
I think in the Union has at least half a
dozen bridges.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I saw that. I don't remember
what story it was, but I saw in one of
tho sto. I read both books not too long ago,
so they kind of run together, you know.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
I think you're right I think that was in Grave
Deeds and Dead plot. I'm remembering that because that was
the one I wrote most recently. But yeah, I gosh,
which one was that on one of the stories that
caught out.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
We'll go ahead and switch over to grave death and
dead plots. That's a good segue plots. One of the
stories that caught my attention was Murder for Christmas. That
was it was that it okay because recently, yeah, recently
the show twenty eight Days Haunted that was really popular
on Netflix.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Oh okay, kind.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Of brought this story back up. One of the buildings
from the story was on that show. But about this
family that got they got massacred in nineteen twenty nine.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Yeah, that was Madison Dry Goods in country store. Yeah yeah,
and in nineteen building built in nineteen oh eight, and
in nineteen twenty nine when the murder happened, there was
the funeral parlor in that building, and that's why it
is so active. And yeah, that was the twenty eight
Days Haunted and that's that's the building on that show.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
Yeah, and that the Murder for Christmas story is just
it reminds me of a different story, but that's a
different story. So but this whole family is massacred, and
then they found the dad's body out in the woods, right,
and the one, the oldest son, was actually in town
buying goods or something for his family for Christmas.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Yeah, picking up some more ammunition.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Yeah yeah, because haunting away. Yeah. And but this father
shot his own kids and his wife and everybody, and
even killed the.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Little baby, shot everyone a shot or bludgeoned everyone.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Yeah. Just a tragic story. And then but this is
the stories that you you know, would expect places to
be haunted because of these things.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Yeah, that will definitely cause it haunting.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Yeah. Yeah, but the grave deeds and dead plots. I
like those books because I'm also a true crime buff.
And so when the two paranormal and true crime kind
of cross over, that's that's some of my favorite stories.
And that's a horrible story about a family get killed,
and then you know this these hauntings. But but it

(52:19):
kind of just you know, those stories are kind of mixed,
two of them.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Yeah, yeah, I have mixed feelings about it. But man,
the stories are just so interesting. Yeah, the hauntings are
interesting that the history is just fascinating, even if it
does involve blood and murder and guts and everything. But yeah,
these tragedies happen, murders happen, and I felt like I

(52:43):
ought to keep these people's memories alive. It's not just
the murderers, it's the victims. I deserve to be remembered.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Right right. And I think my whole thing is I'm
I'm a very sympathetic, empathetic person, and so I think
my fascinating with true crime, with serial killers and things
and like like family and iihilators is like, I could
never imagine hurting somebody. So I think for me, it's
the psychological part of it of how could you do that,

(53:14):
especially like a serial killer, like you have a story,
the story about Carl Panzram and here was a horrible
oh yeah, And how did they get to the point
that they just have no sympathy or empathy for anybody,
that they could just kill people and that's that's what,
for whatever reason, give them joy in life.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
You know, Yeah, how do you get to that point?

Speaker 1 (53:34):
Yeah? Yeah? And I and I hope serial killers especially
don't get to hang around. I hope they go somewhere horrible,
you know, they get tortured and all that. But but Yeah,
there's some fascinating stories in your gradies and dead plots,
and I was I was happy to see that you
brought up volume two this year.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
Yeah, thank you very much. I think I had even
more fun writing volume two than I did with volume one.
The stories and two are just so much fun. I
know it's a horrible thing to say about true crime,
but they are really really interesting, which is what caught
my attention. Every single one of these stories is worth

(54:15):
remembering and worth looking into.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Yeah, one of the stories you put in there was
the death of Superman George Reeves back in nineteen fifteen. Ye,
because his death has always kind of been surrounded in mystery.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
It has Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
Of just somebody so famous and the whole story surrounding
his life. It's just a fascinating story. And how he
became Superman and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
It's just interesting, right, Yeah, how he became an actor,
how he became the you know, the original adventures of
Superman are so popular and everything. Yeah. I like investigating
these people's lives too. I mean, they had lives before
they were brutally murdered. And yeah, I mean they say

(54:58):
that it was a suicide, but there's nobody then or
now that thinks that George Reeves actually killed himself. That
physical impossibility and yeah, no, that's no.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
Yeah, And he's still seeing at his old house as well,
haunting his old house. And I've heard stories where people
have seen him at other places around town. He was
known to be here and there. Sometimes also you read
about Helter Skelter, which is a story that I find interesting.
With the Tate murders, Tate Lobianca murders, and that whole

(55:32):
thing with the Spawn Ranch and Spawn Ranch. Now, I've
seen that a few of the ghost shows have gone
to Spawn Ranch and investigated. But that place, I think
Spawn Ranch, I think it was known to be kind
of haunted before Charles Manson and the family stuff.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Yeah, yeah, I think I think it was. I don't
know what it is about this stretch of Los Angeles. Yeah, yeah,
there's the Tate LaBianca murders. There's there's that house that
that it happened in. There's uh, George Reeve's house was
on that that stretch of land to the stretch of

(56:08):
road to I think, if I'm not very much mistaken,
I think that's where oh Murska Hargate's mother, you know,
the one I'm talking about, Yeah, Jane mans Jane Mansfield,
Jane Mansfield, Yeah yeah. And and there are actually parts
of I learned this while I was writing about Jane
Mansfield for Days of the Dead, that there is a

(56:31):
safety bar on modern trucks that was that had been
installed since the Mansfield accident. They are called Mansfield bars.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Yeah. Yeah, that's that bar you see hanging down with
the back of trailers, hanging about halfway down the tires. Yeah. Yeah.
I don't know why. The Charles Manson is just that
whole thing is always fascinated to everybody.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Ah, because he was a lunatic, that's why. How to
yeah yeah, And how do people follow somebody like that?
How to people listen to someone like that and do
what he has right yeah?

Speaker 1 (57:06):
And just yeah, follow him blindly and just kill these
people to try to start a race war, right right. Yeah,
And that's what Hilter sculpture was. What he thought Hilter
Sculpture was was becoming race war where the black people
would take over and uh and suppress the white people

(57:27):
and just the delusional, messed up guy. There's there's one
guy that was trying to profit off of the stuff,
even though they tore down the house where the Tate
ab Coo murders happened. His house is built on part
of the land, and yeah, he was trying to capitalize
off it for a while, so that his house was
just betwely haunted. There was some kind of lawsuits and

(57:47):
stuff against that guy. So I don't know if his
house is really haunted or not. He claimed to see
some really crazy stuff. Uh, he claimed to see Sharon
Tate in his living room with their belly cut and things,
and and so I don't know if you know his
house in particular, but it seems like nobody else on
the street, you know, where these other homes that were
built on that same property have ever had any issues

(58:10):
except for that one guy.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
I've never heard of anything else on that street having
any sort of problems. But yeah, this guy, because his
house is right next door to the house that was
torn down.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Yeah, yeah, it seems like that guy was just trying
to capitalize.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Also, it's possible, yeah, I mean, I'm open to the
idea that the shades might still be wandering the place,
but I think he really leaned into it.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Yeah, yeah, there's another there's a property that I talked
to a lady, Danielle Ober ober Ostler, it's her name,
and she's a tattoo orters so out in California, and
she wrote a book about her house that she bought
with a guest house behind it, and the guesthouse she

(58:59):
actually has evident that Charles Manson would hang out there,
and the guest house was extremely haunted and that's what
she read her book about because she was trying to
fix it up in these it was once home to
like a biker gang that Charles Manson hung out with
and things. And I had a really good interview with her.
She read a really good book about it and her
experiences in her daughter's experience in the house as well,

(59:21):
and how they finally found somebody to help them get
rid of the negative, really negative stuff. And she still
lives there and rents out the guest house and they
don't have as many problems they used to. But yeah,
she said she found direct evidence that Charles Manson used
to hang out there around the time that the murders
and things happened, and so she had wondered if his

(59:42):
spirit was hanging out there, and she believes that she
he showed up in her bedroom one night as an
apparitionon she woke up and saw who she thought was
Charles Manson after he died. No, I think I think
she said she saw him before it. It might even
before he died, you know, maybe like a like an
imprint on my environment, you know, like a recording or something.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Sure, Yeah, I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
It's been a while since I talked to her on
the show. But this only person I've ever heard that
heads claimed to see Charles Manson's ghost, whether it be
a residual haunting or you know, intelligent.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Yeah, either way, that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
All right, Sylvia, Well, thank you for coming on the
show today.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Absolutely. Oh it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me on.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Yeah, you're you're a wonderful guest and always like talking
to you. And you write fascinating, wonderful books. And everybody
needs to go out and check out Gone on Vacation
because that's just a it's just a fun book with
all the stuff in it. Yeah, Gravity's and dead plots
following one and two. You're kind of more serious like
we're talking about with the you know, with the murders
and things like that. But but yeah, gone on vacation.
It's just one of those fun, fun reads with the

(01:00:45):
paranormal in places that you never think of that are haunted.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Thank you very much. I had just ridiculous amounts of
fun writing that book, and I hope people enjoy it
as much as I did.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Yeah, and we didn't. We didn't even get that far
into it. I mean, there's so much more.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
There's so much more, folks, There's so much more in
that book that we didn't even talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Yeah, and it's I was looking at the bibliography and
I'm looking at a lot of the people that you
cite in here. I know so many of them have
talked to them on the show. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, all right,
everybody go out and check out Sylvia's books. They're available
on Amazon and Kindle. Do you have your books at

(01:01:28):
Walmart or Barnes and any of those places as well.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Barnes and Noble does carry them, yes, and you can
order them through Barnes and Noble. And they're also found
on a lovely little website called bookshop dot Org. I
like sending people to bookshop dot org because with every
purchase you make, there is a little bit of the
purchase price that goes into a fund that is distributed

(01:01:51):
between independent bookstores. So if you don't want to fund
Jeff Bezos's latest, yeah, he doesn't need our money. If
just go to bookshop dot org and you'll also be
You'll not only get a fantastic book, you will also
be supporting independent bookstores. So that ought to make you

(01:02:12):
feel really good.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
Yeah, and you have quite a few other books that
people can go check out as well. Yeah, and also
people can go check out the episode that we're on. Previously,
the first time on the show here about a few
years ago about talking about Christmas lore, which was awesome
as well, and you have a book about that as well.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
I do Spirits to Christmas.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
All right, Sylvia, thank you so much. It was my
pleasure talking to you today.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
Well, thank you so much. I had a blast.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
All Right, everybody, y'all stay safe out there. We'll see
you next time. Have a good day. Thank you for
listening to The Unseen Paranormal. Join me next Wednesday with
a brand new guest, and please rate, review, share, subscribe
on Apple, Spotify or wherever you're listening right now. This
helps more people discover the show. You can connect with

(01:02:57):
me over on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or join us in
the Unseen param Lounge group on Facebook. Until next time,
remember some of the scariest things burn Seed.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Weve co.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Judy that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Can't you pass? You are the side as a Viti
side w