September 15, 2025 • 50 mins
What happens when a child grows up hidden from the world—denied education, safety, and even the chance to ride a school bus?
In this powerful episode, Calvin Bagley shares his journey from an abusive, “no-schooled” upbringing in an extremist household to becoming an educated entrepreneur, father, and faith leader. His story is one of resilience, healing, and reclaiming voice after silence. Listeners will gain insights into overcoming religious trauma, navigating shame, and building a life of wholeness beyond fear.
This episode is with Calvin Bagley.
Calvin Bagley is a healthcare entrepreneur dedicated to both his family and to demystifying Medicare for millions of Americans. He's helped over 60,000 individuals navigate healthcare decisions with confidence and has also helped reshape the Medicare and health insurance landscape. Beyond championing independent health insurance brokers and investing in healthcare innovation, Bagley is a writer and speaker on leadership and resilience.
Find out more about Calvin Bagley by visiting https://calvinbagley.com/.
Calvin invites listeners to explore his book Hiding From the School Bus: Breaking Free from Control, Fear, Isolation and a Childhood without Education. His story offers hope, perspective, and practical encouragement for anyone reclaiming their own voice after trauma.
🔑Rob Z Wentz is a Leadership Communication Expert. Rob teaches, trains, and develops people and organizations to become exceptional communicators and leaders. With Rob, leaders find clarity, take action, and succeed with integrity, making them “the expert” in their industry.
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Discover everything about Rob Z 📲 Linktr.ee/RobZWentz
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🔑Rob is also a Christian entrepreneur, founder of The Unstuck Movement (on all social & podcast platforms), best-selling author, social media marketer and strategist, award-winning radio personality, speaker, and influencer. For over 20 years Rob has been leading people to communicate at a higher level.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:24):
Welcome back to the unstuck movement.
As always, I'm your host, Robb Z.
These are true testimonies of breakthrough.
I'd love to bring incredible guests on here who have found
incredible breakthrough in theirlife to prove that it's possible
for you. Also today we have the very
powerful, incredible Calvin Bagley with us on the show.
Today. We're talking religious trauma,
being no scold, resilience, healing, faith, leadership and
(00:48):
and finding that voice that we all have and and how to, to
break free. So, Calvin, I'd love to jump in
right off the bat with a powerful question right up
front. You've written your first book,
Hiding from the School bus, Breaking free from Control,
Fear, isolation, and a childhoodwithout Education.
I can't wait to learn more aboutyour story, but first I I want
(01:08):
to just dive into this no schooled concept.
What does no schooled mean to you in your personal story?
Yeah, thanks, Robin. Thanks for having me no
schooled. It was a phrase that I that I
came up with because I grew up in a homeschooled family, but no
schooling was happening. And so when I talk about hiding
from the school bus and being noschooled, it's not some great
(01:30):
idea about how you can learn or teach yourself.
It's literally, I was raised without any education 0
whatsoever. At the age of seven, I asked my
mom, can I learn to read? And she, she assigned my sister
who's 10 years older than me to teach me to read when I was 7
years old. And that was the, that was the
(01:51):
extent of the schooling that I received as a child.
And so, you know, for me, getting unstuck was a lot of it
was overcoming the total and complete lack of education that
I had in my childhood. Wow, that's terrible and
incredible at the same time thatyou've you've taken yourself to
to where you are today with thatbeing the beginning.
(02:13):
How is that even? Does nobody monitor
homeschooling to make sure that people are are the kids are
learning? This my lack of knowledge of how
homeschooling works, but how's that possible?
Well, it's it is surprising, andit's probably less possible
today than it was when I was a child.
I'm 50 years old. I just turned 50 last month.
(02:34):
And so this was in the the, you know, late 70s and early 80s
that that this was happening. My family had moved my my father
took a position after having multiple failed business
ventures working for the Ute Native American tribe in the far
northeastern corner of Utah, wayout in the middle of nowhere.
I mean, it was like a trailer house at the end of 20 miles of
(02:58):
potholed, you know, Rd. been 20 miles followed by followed by 20
miles of dirt Rd. just out in the middle of nowhere, no
neighbors, no one knew we were there.
And my parents initially began homeschooling because of
necessity. I mean, there was just no way to
get the kids to school from thiscomplete isolation.
But isolation for my parents proved to be a very bad thing.
(03:21):
And their, you know, beliefs began to morph into more extreme
beliefs, more extreme religious beliefs, beliefs that all
institutions were, were bad, whether it was government,
healthcare or schooling. And though they were all bad and
evil and teaching people the wrong things.
And so it turned into this religious isolation from the
(03:43):
world. And the homeschooling initially
was happening, but by the time Icame along, being the 7th of
nine children, it had pretty much all gone away.
And so I didn't have books, I didn't have schooling, I didn't
have classroom time, I didn't have lecture time, I didn't have
study time. I just had to stay indoors.
And when we moved from that place, when I was only just just
(04:06):
a still a very, very young child, three years old, we moved
to a place where we were in the country on a farm, but had
neighbors, you know, one or two miles away.
And a school bus would come by. And my parents said, you need to
hide from the school bus or it will see you and they will
realize that you're not going toschool.
And we hid because we were afraid.
And then as I got older, when I was a teenager, I hid because I
(04:29):
knew that if, if somehow I endedup going to school, I would be
completely embarrassed. I knew nothing.
And I didn't know how to catch up to kids who had been going to
school their whole life when I didn't know very, very basic
things like how to add and subtract and, and you know, how
to just anything in general. So that was that was the the
(04:50):
challenge of my childhood mixed in with religious extremism and
some abuse and neglect and otherthings.
Holy smokes, man, unbelievable. OK, so before we go any further,
it's about 7000 questions that came across my mind as you were
talking there. I just want to regroup and go
back to the beginning. This is the unstuck movement.
I want to lay the groundwork. So I, I created this platform
(05:12):
because we've all been stuck somewhere in our lives.
We've all wanted to find breakthrough.
I know you have Calvin. Clearly I have everybody
watching and listening. We've you're stuck now somewhere
you've been stuck, right? So I want us to have this
platform as proof that breakthrough is possible for
you, no matter where you're at or what stage you are at in
life. We're sponsored by the connected
leaders Academy. Make sure you check out
(05:34):
connected leadersacademy.com. Over 500 heart centered
entrepreneurs from all over the world helping each other learn
and grow and become better people.
And also the Pro Podcaster Academy.
So if you're somebody who's always wanted to launch a
podcast, you wanted to make a lasting impact in people's
lives, be the go to authority inyour space and also make
incredible personal and professional connections, you
(05:55):
should launch your own podcast if you have one.
How do you streamline it, make it easier to execute and also
monetize it so it's a functionalmoney generating part of your
business. I'd love to help you do that.
The Pro Podcaster Academy is at robzwentz.com today.
Calvin Bagley with us on the show.
Raised in an extremist householdwhere education and safety were
(06:18):
denied, Calvin taught himself toread, think and lead.
Today, he's a successful entrepreneur, faith leader and
author who helps others reclaim their voice and rebuild their
lives. So man, there's so many
questions, right? But you mentioned religious
isolation from the world. What were your parents
intentions for you? How did they intend on you
(06:41):
learning the things and the experiences you need to have
when, when they had you so, so isolated the way it was or, or
did they maybe not even understand that process of what
they were trying to do themselves?
What what is your perspective onthat?
My perspective is, is that they wanted to be isolated from the
world and they didn't really want their children to integrate
(07:02):
into the world or have, you know, careers or that sort of
thing. You know, we lived on a farm.
We raised all our own food. We had animals and other things
and my parents lived like it wasthe 1880s, not the 1980s.
And so I don't think that they thought about those things.
They were more concerned about, you know, their, their extreme
religious beliefs. My parents were members of the
Church of Jesus Christ of LatterDay Saints, which is known as
(07:23):
the Mormon church, which I stillparticipate in today.
Although my, I built, I've, I'verebuilt my faith around love and
acceptance and, and the things that I believe that, that Jesus
Christ taught, which were different from the fear and the
total isolation that my, that myparents believed in.
So yeah, I don't, I, I don't think that there was a lot of, a
(07:45):
lot of intent with them to help us to be successful in the way
that most people would assume inlife.
It was more to keep us isolated,to keep us away from things that
they consider to be bad influence.
It it sounds like it was based out of fear, not out of love.
That's exactly what it was. And, and I please, I don't want
(08:07):
to ask any questions that might be offensive or anything like
that, but I have to pry a littlebit because I'm so curious about
this. Like how, how can you give me
some examples of, of that, that fear and their thought process?
Because I'm fascinated by peoplewho think that way because they
really, truly think. And this is this is such a
fascinating part of human natureis you think you're doing the
(08:27):
right thing. Like they thought they were
following Jesus and and doing what they were called to do, yet
they were leading you astray andthey were being LED astray.
What was that? Some of the the thought process
they had, it seemed right to them.
That was obviously so misguided.Yeah, well, I'll tell you I'm
about, I'm literally an open book.
I have borne my soul to the world.
(08:49):
So there's no question you can ask me that would offend me.
You know, my, my parents, they isolation was a bad thing for
them. And I, I shared that earlier,
but when my grandfather knew that my, that my dad was going
to go out into and, and manage this ranch in the middle of
nowhere, he tried to persuade myfather not to go.
(09:09):
And he said, it's not good for you to be away from family.
It's not good for you to be so far and be so isolated.
And I think my grandfather knew something about my dad and
understood that this would not be good.
And so isolation is a big, is a big theme here that when you're
isolated from the world. But first of all, you know,
we're talking about getting unstuck.
You can't get unstuck by yourself.
You need people. We are, we are social beings.
(09:33):
Now, it doesn't mean you need tohave 100 people all around you
or 1000 people. Maybe you do, maybe you're that
type of extroverted person, but you need relationship.
And the more that you isolate yourself from the world, the
stranger things can become. And, and that's what happened to
my parents. So I, I can't really tell you,
you know what, what were some ofthe extreme beliefs?
Well, I'll, I'll tell you that it started with things that were
(09:55):
very mainstream in the, in the Mormon religion, which, you
know, things like we don't drinkcoffee, we don't drink alcohol.
We, we keep the Sabbath day holy, we believe in Jesus
Christ, all of these things which are very normal and
mainstream. And then it turned into things
like, well, not only do we not drink coffee, but we don't eat
chocolate. Chocolate to my parents was
(10:16):
sinful soda or, you know, meat. My parents believed that we
should not eat red meat. We only, we almost ate no meat.
And so I was this very scrawny child, just deprived of protein,
you know, eating potatoes and vegetables every day for, for
most of my life growing up. And there were other things too
(10:36):
that became just very odd. My, you know, this was the like
late 70s and 80s. My parents didn't want to
participate in any popular culture.
So all of you know, I did go to church and that was my one
socialization that I had and the, the kids at church who I
would loosely call my friends, but I was very strange because I
was the homeschooled kid, right?But the, these kids at church,
(10:57):
they were enjoying the, the, thewhole cultural movement of Star
Wars. I mean, it was everything all
around us. And my, my father even found
evil in that saying that there can't be two sides of, of the
force. There's, there's either good or
evil. There isn't 1 force that can be
used for good or evil. So they just found fault in
(11:17):
everything around them, even coming home from church and
saying that everyone else at church was doing it wrong.
So you know, the the beliefs became more and more extreme and
came and their friends became other homeschoolers which many
of them were either polygamous or you know, very very extreme,
you know almost fundamentalist Mormons.
(11:40):
And it just further made their beliefs strange and strange.
Yeah, it's it's and and when you're saying those sorts of
things like then they sell chocolate to sin for this, this
that, you know, it's I can see how I I can understand that
mentality of like, oh, this thing is good.
It it's it's a pleasure full. That means it's got to be bad,
(12:02):
right, because over intelligencewill lead certain directions and
you don't even want to dabble into it because you never know
what's going to come out of that.
So I, I can see how that happens, but it also, I imagine
in the 70s and early 80s, homeschooling was much more rare
than it is now when we, we hear about it all the time now, kids
being homeschooled. I, I know lots of homeschooled
(12:23):
kids who are normal or they're, they're actually doing much
better than a lot of the kids that are in the public schools.
But imagine. I don't want to say anything
negative about homeschooling. I think that there's a place for
all of these things. That's why I termed coined the
phrase no schooled because homeschooling has become
legitimized even though it was less often legitimate in in my
(12:43):
time frame. So for you like not knowing how
to read until later in in your childhood and and basically
having no school, no education, anything like that.
How did you break free from that?
How did you Fast forward to where you are today?
Obviously that's, that's a lot of skipping over a lot of steps,
(13:05):
but what were some of the thingsfor you that started to stand
out? Is like, oh, shoot, I've, I've
missed out on all these things. I have to play catch up because
I would imagine a lot of the times what would happen is I,
there's so much to catch up on. It's too much that's
unattainable. I'm just going to keep living
this sort of lifestyle that I, Iwas raised in.
(13:26):
And I'm sorry, before you answerthat, I also want to mention
too, this whole isolation concept, right, Because that's
where the enemy attacks us in isolation.
That's where, that's where isolation away from people and
not interacting is the place where we're left vulnerable.
So having those connections is everything.
And it's interesting that your, your dad and mom were LED into
(13:48):
that. But what were some of the, the
signs for you of like, man, I, Ineed to catch up and, and, and
there's so much to overcome here.
That had to have been overwhelming.
Yeah, I appreciate that question.
And I will say that with isolation, a lot of people today
are are still isolated in groups.
I mean, if you look on social media and some of the things
that are said and done, I mean, just this past week, you can see
(14:10):
people that have really strange reactions to terrible things
because they're they're living in silos and I and isolated in
in public. So we have to be careful you can
become, especially with the advent of social media and how
these algorithms work, you can be isolated in a group.
Yeah, you're socially isolated even.
It's like I, I know lots of people, but we are all thinking
(14:30):
the same exact way. Yeah, very true.
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I, when I was 7
and I learned to read, I, I, I actually there, there were still
some remnants of homeschooling when I was that age of my older
siblings. And in the living room, we had
the alphabet across the ceiling.And when I was so excited that I
wanted to learn to read, I wouldcome downstairs and look up at
the alphabet and I was memorizing it 'cause I was
(14:51):
trying to be ready, but I didn'tknow which way it started.
So I inadvertently memorized it backwards.
And so I would come down and start on the side of the room
and go ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA and
go down the room backwards. And I had to relearn that along
with many of the things to learnto read.
And my father believed that if you teach a child to read,
(15:13):
that's all you need to do. If a child knows how to read
when they want to learn something, they will figure it
out. And I, I hate to say out loud
that I in a way, I sort of proved my dad's theory right,
but I would say that I was one of nine kids or maybe a couple
of his nine children that that worked.
And many have struggled throughout their entire life.
And I love my siblings. I don't want to say negative
things about them. Their stories are theirs.
(15:34):
But I was the 7th. And so my older siblings began
to rebel and they began to go against the things that that
the, my parents believed in, hadtaught.
And I think that that has softened my parents to some
extent. And so I am the benefactor of
being the seventh child in a way.
So that that was helpful for me,but not to the point that we
weren't still isolated and weren't able to go to school and
(15:56):
what have you. But it helped me to form some of
my own opinions and to see what was happening and say, well,
maybe maybe there's something else going on here.
Maybe this isn't the only way. And that was a gradual thing
that happened throughout my, my teenage years.
And when I was 19 years old, I and I, you know, I'm leaving out
(16:18):
throughout this time some prettyextreme abuse.
I and my siblings were subject to a lot of abuse, whether it
was emotional, physical and evensexual abuse, that it would
occur when you're in total isolation.
And so there was just so much struggle throughout those years
and many times that, that I justwas just in total despair
(16:44):
because I was so different. I, I couldn't relate to anyone
my age and just was just wanted more than anything, just wanted
to be normal, right, whatever normal is not realizing that
other people probably were feeling this too, but I was
really an outsider. So at 19, I, I, I decided prior
(17:05):
to that that I was going to go on a mission for my church.
And it's customary in, in the Mormon church that at 19 years
old, young men. Now it's 18, but when I was
young, it was 19. Go on missions.
And so I filled out all the paperwork.
I met with my Bishop and we submitted everything.
And it goes to Salt Lake City, UT.
And then you get a letter back and the letter tells you where
you're going to go on your mission.
And I opened my letter and I'm so excited.
(17:25):
And it says, you know, dear Elder Bagley, we, we called
missionaries elder and, and the,the women's sister.
Dear Elder Bagley, you've been called to serve as a
representative of the, of the Church of Jesus Christ and of
Jesus Christ to serve in Kudachiba, Brazil.
And I read that and I'm like, Ohmy gosh, I'm going to Africa
because I just, I didn't know where Brazil was.
(17:48):
And then I realized, hey, I'm going to South America, which is
that's cool too. And I'm going to speak
Portuguese. And I was so excited.
And that experience was so critical in helping me to form
new beliefs. I went to Mission, the
missionary training center in Provo, UT, and that was the
first time I had ever sat in a classroom and attended anything
(18:12):
that was kind of like school where I learned to speak
Portuguese. And learning to speak Portuguese
taught me so much about English.It taught me what, what a verb
was and what a noun was and how to what, what it meant to
conjugate a verb and, and how sentence structure worked and
things. And so that was my first real
like education, I would say was learning to speak Portuguese.
(18:34):
So then I, I, just to summarize this, I went to Brazil.
I had all of these companions, you know, Brazilian, if you
notice the, the Mormon missionaries, it's always 22
together and we call them a companion.
So I had all these companions and they were all going to go to
BYUI, had one companion that wasgoing to go to Stanford, one
that was going to, to ASU. And I really wanted and felt
(18:56):
like, hey, I'd learned Portuguese.
I want to go to college. And so I came back from, from
Brazil with this, this mission that I was going to, to study
and learn and get into college, even though I had no education
and, and that was my next step. And that was a a big journey as
well. Were your parents open to that?
(19:17):
Do they like go do it or was it met with a lot of resistance?
No, it was. It was not met with support when
I studied to get my GED. I got my GED just before I
turned 22. My father said.
What do you need that for you. You need a piece of paper for
them to tell you're smart. My father has passed away and
(19:39):
and I love my father and I don't, I don't hold anger and
resentment to him, but that thatis how he that is how he reacted
to that. Yeah, I think one of the best
things we can learn and understand, which takes time
and, and, and we all get there at different times, is that our
parents did the best they could with what they had, right.
(20:00):
And that's. I believe that to be true.
I believe that to be a situationfor everybody.
We, we do the best with what we have.
Not saying we can't be self aware and always work to be
better and to be a lifelong learner to do better, but a lot
of the times we get stuck where we're at.
I think if we're really concerned about what other
people should have done, then westart to lose responsibility for
(20:22):
our own actions. Yeah, 100%.
So you went? So you went to college?
Yeah, so I did, I, I, I, after Igot my GED, I studied for the
ACT and I took the ACT exam 21 years old, you know, right
before I turned 22, I was in theroom with all these high school
kids, you know, as and they're all taking their, their college
(20:47):
entrance exam. And so am I and I failed it
miserably. I just, there was, there was no
way that if you in a few months of studying at night, I could
catch up on 12 years of schooling.
And so, you know, I, I tell people that I the reality of the
situation, you can't fail the ACT, which is nice, but as close
as you can get to failing is what I did.
Yeah. I, I scored a 16, which I could
(21:09):
not get you into any, any college anywhere.
I'd, I applied even even just toa Community College that had an
extension, you know, service near the area where I lived in
this little town up in up in Utah and was denied by every,
everyone because I, I was not. I just had failed support so
badly. Well, at that time, my brother
(21:30):
had already moved to Las Vegas. The brother just older than me
and he was married to a woman who was a registered nurse and
she had gone through college. And the two of them really took
an interest to say, Calvin will help you out.
Why don't you come down to Las Vegas, live with us.
And Julie, my sister-in-law, will help you to learn the
things you don't know. And so I came to Las Vegas the
(21:52):
month of my 22nd birthday and began this new life here where I
still live in Las Vegas today, you know, 30 years later.
And she helped me to learn a lotof basic things.
She, she took me to the store called Learning is Fun.
We bought all of the grade booksfor math from grades three
through 12 because we had gone through and said, hey, where,
(22:13):
what's the place that I, that I understand when it comes to
math. And it was second grade.
That's I could do second grade math at 22 years old.
And so we took, we bought gradesthree through 12 and I was
studying, studying at night whenshe came home from her 12 hour
shift at the at Sunrise Hospital.
She would come and sit with me at the kitchen table and explain
things that I had not been able to figure out that day.
(22:34):
And then I, but I still was like, how am I going to get into
college, You know? And she said, you just need to
talk. Someone just needs to hear your
story. If, if one of the admissions
counselors hears your story, they're going to let you in.
And so I took faith in, in her, in her faith.
And I had an appointment with anadmissions counselor at the
University of Nevada, Las Vegas.And I went in and I explained to
her, look, I've been working full time like as, as a child
(22:55):
labor since the day I was born. Basically, I've been laboring on
a farm and everything. I'd had no education.
I, I learned to speak Portuguese.
I have faith in myself and the ability to learn.
I studied on my own and got my GED.
Yes, I felt the ACT, but I, I'm doing a lot of work to, you
know, I can learn. And I would try to be as
confident as possible, even though I had a hard time looking
her in the face because I reallyfelt like I wasn't, I wasn't, I
(23:18):
wasn't good enough, you know, And she listened to my story and
said, you know what? We're, we're going to find a way
for you. Like.
And So what they did is they, she gave me two semesters to
audit classes. I wouldn't be an admitted
student. My grades wouldn't count.
And if I got passing grades, they would admit me and then
(23:39):
they would give me credit for those classes.
Wow. And so I went to UNLV for two
semesters as a non admitted student and I passed my classes.
I earned A4 point O Actually, I studied very hard, worked very
hard and was admitted into UNLV and that is how I worked my way
and managed to get into college.Amazing, Calvin, that's
(24:00):
incredible. What a blessing that is.
That's such a cool story. I want we have to pause real
fast to shout the sponsor of theshow.
When we come back, though, I named this episode Reclaiming
Childhood, Reclaiming Faith. And I want to talk about the
faith end of that because it sounds like clearly God has been
with you this whole time, guiding you in this journey.
But it sounds like that was something you wrestled with and
(24:22):
you struggled with because of your upbringing.
So I want to dive into that in one minute when we come back.
Are you struggling to make consistent, valuable content for
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(24:44):
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(25:30):
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(25:52):
Calvin, this is a fascinating conversation and I, we only have
40 minutes, but it's not going to be enough time for me, me to
even like get into a lot of the stuff I want to get into.
So I'm just saying right now we got to, we got to do a second
one. We got to come back and talk
some more. So talk about, yeah, your, your,
your faith journey because I can't imagine you being
(26:13):
challenged, but clearly the Lordwas with you, guiding you
through this journey you've gonethrough.
So can you talk about how that what that journey's been like
for you throughout your life? Yeah, I was.
At the age of eight, I was baptized.
That's the age that children arebaptized in the LDS church or
(26:34):
the Mormon Church. And at that time, you know, I
should go back a little further.I had a primary teacher when I
was a child that was just so important to me.
And I really believed I didn't. I didn't know if I was loved at
home. I didn't feel loved at home, but
I knew that Wilma Rob loved me and I loved her.
(26:56):
And you know, there's in in my story, I tell the tragic story
of her life ending in a car accident that that my mother was
driving the car. I was sitting in the car, Wilma
was in the passenger seat. And she died when my mother
struck a horse and at night and didn't see it.
And it's a tragic, it was a tragic story and a tragic, just
extreme tragedy for a child to experience.
(27:18):
But but I knew Wilma loved me and I loved her so much.
And I felt something in church that I didn't feel at home.
And even though my parents, you know, practice all of the
things, you know, we we read scripture, we had family prayer,
we prayed over all of our meals.Often times those things,
instead of feeling spiritual to me, they felt manipulative and
(27:41):
angry and what have you. But at church it was different
and I felt something at church. And I think part of what makes
my story unique from many otherswho've experienced religious
and, and other trauma in childhood, like the like the
book educated Tara Westover. It's an incredible book.
I, I, I read her book and I was like, wow, she's it's like she's
telling my story, except that she also threw out all religion
(28:04):
and God with, with as she left her, her, her parents beliefs
behind. And I'm very, very sensitive to
the Spirit. And I, I just, I felt something
at church from the time I was little.
And when I was baptized at 8 years old, I felt A rush of
warmth and, and love wash over me that stayed with me.
(28:27):
And then when I went and, and itcarried me through.
And when I went to Brazil and I was preaching Jesus Christ to
the people of Brazil and I was talking about his love and, and
teaching, you know, baptism and faith and, and belief in Christ.
And I had so many incredible experiences.
I write about one in my, in my book where I blessed a child, a
(28:50):
woman saw us and said, you're, you're, you're pastors, right?
Come bless my child. He's about to die.
And we came into this room wherethis child was, was just lying
on a bed just so you could feel the darkness and the, the
thickness of death in the air. And I just, I thought, this
child is dying. Can't even hardly breathe.
And we, we blessed and prayed over that child.
And the very next day we came back to check on him and he was
(29:12):
playing soccer in the street andjust just, I couldn't.
And the, and the woman said, youknow, I prayed for God to God
and he sent you and I said, well, why don't you come to
church with us? And she's like, Oh no, that's
OK. I have my own religion.
And I, and for me, it was this moment that was just completely
separated me from my parents beliefs that God's love is
conditional, that you had to, you had to do this and this and
(29:33):
this for God to love you. No, God loves you.
He loves everyone no matter what.
And the only question is not, does God love me, but do I love
God? And will I change who I am
because of my love for him? Because he's not going to change
his love for me based on, on what I do, you know, and it just
fractured my, my relationship with my beliefs of my parents
(29:54):
and, and turned into something very different.
And so, you know, I, I Fast forward through my life, I, I've
actually served in clergy positions in my church.
I served as a Bishop six years ago.
I was, I was a Bishop in the, inthe Mormon Church and was
helping others and, and teachingand my, my, a Bishop is like a
pastor, but in the Mormon church, it's a lay ministry.
(30:15):
And so I serve, you know, typically a Bishop will be a
Bishop for five years. And I was the Bishop of my, of
my congregation and it was a congregation of about 450
people. And so, yeah, I mean, I, I don't
know how, how it worked. I feel like God, just He, He
spoke to me and speaks to all ofus and I was fortunate to have
(30:38):
felt it and to have always believed it and I have been so
blessed for it. You know, I just as you're
talking there, it's incredible. It's so, and these are the kind
of things that only God knows and we, we won't know until
we're, we're, you know, we're, we're with him.
But like your parents, you said they, they prayed and they read
scripture and they went to church and they, they, it seems
like they incorporated got into their house all the time, but it
(31:01):
came from this place of like anger and manipulation.
I don't, I know you don't know the answer to this, but what do
you think that was like? Obviously that's like, you know,
that's, that's the, the enemy maybe twisting and contorting
what they were reading. But what do you think it was
about them that they, they had the, the, they were doing the
things, but they were missing that love.
(31:23):
Maybe you can't answer that. I'm just curious what your
thoughts are on that because I that that kind of stuff always
perplexes me. I think that if, if my parents
were, were able to speak about it today, they would probably
say that it was coming from a place of love.
I think that they were confused.And I, I think that my parents
had their own traumas and had their own, you know, issues and,
(31:45):
and some mental health challenges that were, they were
undiagnosed and untreated. So, you know, I, I think truly
what you said, they were doing the best they could, although
it, it hurt a lot of us, it really hurt us and it hurt my
siblings and hurt me. So yeah, I, I couldn't, I
couldn't really answer what theywere thinking other than to say
they thought they were doing it right.
(32:08):
Yeah, I thought they were doing it right.
They were doing the best they could.
What what what do you think it was about you that that made you
different because this, this sort of thing, the sort of
things that you went through, most people would not bounce
back from or would stay stuck incertain areas.
What, what do you think it was about you and your relationship
with God that that led to all ofthese breakthroughs to lead you
(32:31):
to the office that you're in right now doing your podcast and
telling your story, 'cause I know this for a fact.
And I anybody who's told their story knows the healing that
comes from that and the blessings that come from that.
Being able to to tell your story, your testimony not only
heals you, but then helps to heal the people.
And what do you think it was about you that that separated
(32:52):
you 'cause lots of people in your situation would not be in
the same place that you're at? Yeah, I know that's true because
it's been a struggle for many ofmy siblings and I I don't, I
don't think everyone has to arrive at the same end.
If we all keep struggling and fighting and, and, and trying to
improve ourselves, our end can be different.
(33:13):
You know, the, we, we Christ thought about the parable of the
talents that everyone is given talents and we are to multiply
them. We're not to bury them in the
earth. And you know what?
Some of my talents have been in business of where I where I've
had a lot of success and been very blessed.
Some of my talent has been in being able to overcome the, the,
the challenges of my childhood. And so I've just been trying to
(33:34):
improve on what I was given and not to judge what other people
were given. You know, some of my siblings
are quite broken and, but I lovethem and they probably would be
hurt with me saying that they'rebroken.
I think that they're doing the very best that they can.
So I think a few of the things that that I have that have
helped me one is, is that I tendto have a pretty short memory,
(33:58):
IA memory, a short memory to long memory.
And I've thought talking about my mental memory, you know, I
can remember very vividly the things that happened, but my
emotional memory, you know, the ability to move on and not and
not carry a grudge. You know, there's a saying that
says when you're when you carry a grudge, when you're angry with
someone else, it's like drinkingpoison and hoping that they die.
I've been able to let go of a lot of that poison over my life
(34:19):
and to not harbor anger and hatred and, and, and things.
And you know, that is, has been a great blessing for me to be
able to just let some things go.And I tell people that the past
is in service of you today. And the past changes and you're
the one who decides what it means.
And it's not that the events of the past change, although
(34:41):
everyone remembers the events differently, but the events
don't change. But the meaning you give them is
different from what all the whatever meaning that other
people give them. So how did people survive?
How did, how did the Jews survive the Holocaust?
Those who survived part, part ofpart luck.
But, and I don't mean survive, but like afterwards, you know,
(35:02):
there, there were some like Viktor Frankel.
I mean, what an incredible, incredible soul.
And the things that he taught about, you know, you, they can't
take away your free will of, of reaction.
Well, I think that that's the, for me, that's, that's what I, I
believe. I believe the past is in service
for you today. If you want to be a victim, then
(35:22):
the past is in service to you and you can claim that you're a
victim. If you want to overcome and and
and produce more out of your life then the past will give you
and inform you on on how to do that as well.
Yeah, I always take notes when we're we're doing these shows
and I'm always looking for themes.
Man, the theme you just said there was so good, your
(35:44):
emotional memory and how to how,how to shorten your emotional
memory or reframe it. I guess that's really, really
good. I love that.
I've never heard that said before.
And I, I think that's, that's sopowerful to not hang on to those
(36:04):
things because I was in therapy one time years ago, my therapist
had said to me, some people haveemotions like water and some
people have emotions like honey and, and Rob, it seems like you
have emotions like honey, like where something hits you and it,
it sticks, right. And some people have it where it
hits them and it just just washes off and it's gone.
And I thought, wow, that's so true.
It seems like things stick to melike honey and that causes you
(36:29):
to carry around a lot of pain. And so learning how to let and
pray prayer, like asking God like help me let these things
go, not to carry them around everywhere that I go and apply
them to all my situations. That's really, really good.
Some of us are naturally born with that.
Some of us are given that grace in our lives.
Other people, we have to work onthat.
And those are all kind of the, you know, the, the, the, the
(36:50):
cross we bear as we as we live. One of the things I heard you
say too, that always makes me think we all have baggage, but
we can turn it into luggage, right.
And that's, this has been comingup for me a lot in my life
lately is, you know, baggage. There are bags you carry with
(37:10):
you that weigh you down, that hurt you, that wear you out.
Luggage, you need it. Like when I go on vacation or I
go somewhere, I'm doing something important.
I need my luggage 'cause that's all my stuff that I need.
And it can be the same stuff right as you turn the baggage,
the pane into luggage. Now the stuff that used to wear
you down and wear you out. Now you take it with you because
it helps you and it also helps people that you you encounter.
(37:35):
How did you or, or when did you decide to start telling your
story? Because I imagine there was a
lot of years of, of shame and, and not telling the story, not
using it to your advantage and helping other people with it.
Was there a turning point where you were like, now I've got to,
I've got to use this? Yeah, there was a clear turning
point for me, and it was about five years ago.
(37:56):
You know, I, I, it's, it's a gradual process of, you know,
being able to open up to the world and to share who you
really are. I think a lot of us go through
that as we age. But for me, there was also this
really key moment I became quitesuccessful in business.
I own several businesses, I'm anentrepreneur.
I like to start things all the time.
I'm, I, I can get things to like80% and I need people around me
(38:18):
to help me finish stuff because I, I want to start something new
again. And one of the companies that I
started is called Nuvo Health and we help people with their
Medicare insurance and we have grown and grown.
We help people all over the country.
We've helped over 60,000 people to make a decision about the
type of, of health and Medicare insurance that they have.
And very proud of that. And the, and the good work that
we do and that we do it from a, a place of, of, of taking care
(38:43):
of people and doing what's right, you know, And so I, I
became kind of a leader in, in this space.
And with that success, I joined this group.
That's the, it's called the genius Network.
And it's very similar to your sponsor group.
It's a group of people who are, who are looking to like, like,
like the connected Academy are looking to improve themselves,
(39:04):
to be around other people who are, who want to be high
performers and to find a networkand a group of people that are
striving for excellence and to do more in their life.
And so I was a part of the of a group like this and a business
leader who I really look up to Gino Wickman, who wrote the book
Traction is founded the E OS entrepreneurs.
(39:24):
One of my favorite books I I usethat with every client that I
work with. OK.
Yes, it's fantastic, right? It's amazing, yeah.
So I'm sitting in a room with Gino and I'm like, Oh my gosh,
like this is a major moment in my life to arrive in a room with
100 people with Gino and to hearhim speak.
And I'm, I'm just so stoked to hear about all this business
stuff and everything. And, and Geno sits down.
(39:46):
You know, if, if you follow Gino, which apparently you do,
you know that he had, he sold EOS not, not only about five
years ago. And I, I'm, I'm just, it's like
sitting at the, the feet of someone I've, I've looked up to
and respected for so long. And he starts to talk and, and
what he says is so different from what I expect.
Instead of talking about business and and and EOS and all
(40:09):
these other things, he starts totalk about his personal journey
and how he realized at one point.
That he didn't love himself. And I'm like, wow, I'm like,
this is Gino. This is what is he talking
about? And he says, let me tell you,
let me take you all on this little journey.
And he's like, he says, close your eyes and let's visualize
for a minute. And so I'm playing along, 'cause
I mean, it's Gino, right? And he, he takes you, he's like,
(40:30):
go into your heart. And what do you see there?
Now it's find the door to your heart and open the door to your
heart. And what do you see inside?
This was, this is just five years ago.
And I am like, I see just like, like shame, darkness.
It's like a black spot. I don't know.
I don't, I don't want to open the door when everyone around me
(40:53):
is talking about like butterflies and rainbows and,
you know, unicorns and all this,you know, beautiful stuff.
And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I just see darkness.
And then Gino says when he opened his heart at this, when
he did the same thing and openedhis heart, he just saw darkness.
And that is what led him on this, on this journey to
(41:13):
discover why am I dark inside when I've accomplished so many
great things in life. And so I'm listening to him and
I'm thinking, OK, I have I went on a mission for my church.
I profess the name of Jesus Christ in Brazil.
I have stayed in, in the religion that my parents used,
as you know, in, in fear, I stayed in love.
(41:33):
I became a Bishop myself and I, I counseled people and helped
them. I've become successful in
business and I have, you know, hundreds of people who make
their living off of the company that I started.
And I'm very proud of, of, of all these things.
Why don't I love myself? Why do I have darkness inside?
I, I should have light inside. And Gino inspired me to then go
(41:54):
on my own journey to, to discover why.
Why don't why am I dark inside? And wow, you know, that's that's
we could spend an hour on that. But it was this discovery for me
that I needed to find all of these different parts of me and
work with the therapist also. I mean, I believe, I believe so
(42:15):
much in God and I believe that He could lead us to tools that
will help us. It's not.
Sometimes the prayer alone is not is just not going to do it.
Yeah. I take the work and do action.
If I could interject, it's really interesting.
What God usually does with me islike he I pray about stuff and
then I'm like, where's where's the, I'm in the scripture?
And I'm like, where's the answerin here?
God, why aren't you telling me the answer?
(42:35):
Why aren't you speaking to me? And he's like, dummy.
Well, he doesn't say dummy, but he says, Rob, I brought this
person into your life to help you and you're not paying
attention to that person. I brought the situation in your
life to help you. Like it's right in front of your
face. But we're it's, it's that
staying, staying open, right? Staying aware, staying in, in
constant prayer like we, we, we miss things.
(42:55):
We missed the obvious stuff. So that's a really good point.
I love that. Yeah, absolutely.
So I, I found a therapist who shared my faith.
I, I went to multiples first and, and just, and didn't find
anyone that I really connected with or felt was going to help
me until I found the right person who, who, like I said,
shared my faith with. I think it's really important
if, if, if you're, you know, someone who's listening and
(43:15):
saying, I think I need to deal with the traumas of my past that
are unresolved or that I, it's not that they're unresolved,
it's that your body doesn't knowthat they happened in the past.
And I love the book The Body keeps the score, talks about how
your, your body, like literally in your cells, each of your
cells has a brain essentially. And it's, and it thinks that
when something happens, and sometimes people call them
(43:37):
triggers, I don't love the word trigger because I think like, I
think that it gets used improperly today.
But we have these reactions to things that your body thinks
that it just happened again. It doesn't realize and it is
preparing and it's, it's shielding itself for something
to happen again that happened 40years ago, right?
So that this, my therapist, John, has been a godsend for me.
(43:58):
And he helped me to identify these different parts of myself,
including the dark part and realized that that dark part of
me that houses a lot of anger and, and other things still is
part of me and is still worthy of loving.
It's still, I can still love my,that part of me because it was
protecting other parts of me, the, the sensitive and
(44:19):
vulnerable parts of me. And so you know that, that
that's, that has been a major part of my journey this, this
last five years to, to, for me to get to sit before you today
and say, now I can say one of mygreatest accomplishments is that
now I love myself and I appreciate the different parts
of me that has helped me to survive and be here today.
Yeah, man, that's so good. That's that's the, that's the
(44:44):
when we understand how much God loves us, then we can love
ourselves, love others, right? It's like it's a, you have to
understand that that pattern. And this is really interesting,
man, because I know this is like, for me, definitely a
divine moment. So I just want to acknowledge
that and thank God for it because I had a dream a couple
of nights ago, I've been having like some wild dreams lately.
(45:05):
In this dream, I'm in like this lightning storm.
And in the lightning, I saw my reflection in one of the
lightning bolts. But I knew in the dream that
like I was seeing myself, but I knew that I was seeing the
enemy. I didn't understand what it
meant at first. I went downstairs, I wrote it
down and I was like praying about it.
(45:25):
And what God had revealed to me was that when I think I'm
battling me, I'm battling the old me, which is like, you know,
the sin for me that the old man,as it says in the Bible, right?
I'm battling this old man. Like, like you just said, in new
(45:46):
situations, that old part of me will come up.
And then all that is like this fear, shame, guilt, you know,
all this stuff, anger, all the stuff that is like the old me is
like still showing up. And I'm seeing my reflection
because I'm seeing like, oh, OK,that's I don't know if this, I
don't know if this makes sense or not, but it makes sense to
me. So I'm trying to explain the
best that I can. But the point is that I'm
(46:09):
seeing, I thought that I was seeing, I thought that I was
supposed to see the enemy in that lightning bolt, but I was
seeing myself because what God was showing me was that I was
seeing the old version of me. And the old version of me is all
that junk that you don't need, that isn't from God.
And to recognize that, recognizelike, OK, I might be thinking a
certain way about a situation based on my past, and that past
(46:32):
has not define me. That is not who I am.
I've been created new. God's renewed my mind.
But I need to constantly remind myself of that, stay in prayer
about that so that I can embracewho I truly am, right?
And telling your story right, being able to embrace who you
truly are. When you can tell your story,
you know you've healed, right. And you can tell from a place of
(46:54):
victory, not a place of still being there.
And I've told my story many times to different people.
Not my whole story maybe, but but parts of my story.
And I've told it from a place ofI can tell when I tell it, I can
tell I'm not healed from it yet.So now when I start to tell it
again, I feel healing from it. Not every part of it, but there
are parts of it where I can speak to it like, yeah, it
(47:15):
sounds bad, but it's actually good.
Like I needed that to get to where I am now.
And now I can help other people because I've I've used that the
baggage to luggage, the, the mess to message.
And so thank you for sharing that.
And I because that's, that's really helpful.
And we need to hear this. This is why I have this podcast.
(47:37):
You need to hear other people's stories of breakthrough.
At least I do. I need to hear other people's
stories of breakthrough because it continually reminds me, man,
everybody goes through stuff andyour stuff isn't your stuff
might look different than my stuff, but it to us, it's all
the same. We just got to let God work us
through that stuff to to teach us that that those things don't
(47:59):
define who we are, but we can use those things as we move
forward in life. And we're supposed to use those
things to help other people findtheir breakthrough and
ultimately lead them to Jesus because that's that's what's
going to that's who is going to reveal who we truly were created
to be rich, reveal our true identity.
(48:20):
So, Calvin, I want to thank you for that.
Thank you. Yeah, I agree with everything
you said. I mean that you said it very
eloquently. Mess to the message, the baggage
to the luggage. That's the first time I've heard
that one. I'm going to take that with me
because it's it's very true. And I say that that God is the
ultimate lemons to lemonade guy,Whatever lemons you've been
(48:43):
handed, he can make the most beautiful lemonade in your life.
And, and I feel like that's, youknow, that's been a story in my
life. Have you been listening to a lot
of Forrest Frank lately? Is that where?
You're getting. No, I haven't.
Oh. Man, go go listen to Lemonade by
Forrest Frank. You'll love it.
OK. Yeah, OK.
Yeah, that's a good one. I'll I'll check it.
Out probably probably the biggest Christian hit right now
out there. Awesome.
(49:04):
Well, Calvin, listen, we got to go, but I, I'd love to have you
back 'cause there's so many other things I'd love to talk.
Just go more in depth about thatjourney and the breakthroughs
that you found and yeah, let's do that.
So that, that would be really, really cool.
But I want to encourage people before we sign off to get your
book right so they can buy your book right now.
(49:24):
It is I'm trying to find it right here hiding from the
school bus. Go, go get that.
Can they get that on your on your website?
It's available anywhere books are sold, or you can look it up
at Hiding from theschoolbus.com.Hiding from theschoolbus.com.
Very cool. All right.
Thank you, Sir. Before we sign off too, say
we're never going to talk to youagain.
Say nobody in this ever, you know, gets a chance to connect
(49:46):
with you again. What is a lasting message that
you'd want to share with the audience?
I would say that wherever you are today, it is a result of
where you came from. So if you can find in your life
to love yourself as as I've shared that I have reached, then
everything in the past you can embrace and say I wouldn't go
back and change anything. It's all has made me who I am
(50:09):
and I can love who I am and be proud of who I am and what I've
accomplished in my life. And so there's no need to change
the past. The past truly can be in service
to you today. Amen.
That is the truth. Another powerful message, a true
testimony of breakthrough. Until next time, this has been
the unstuck movement.
Welcome back to the unstuck movement.
As always, I'm your host, Robb Z.
These are true testimonies of breakthrough.
I'd love to bring incredible guests on here who have found
incredible breakthrough in theirlife to prove that it's possible
for you. Also today we have the very
powerful, incredible Calvin Bagley with us on the show.
Today. We're talking religious trauma,
being no scold, resilience, healing, faith, leadership and
(00:48):
and finding that voice that we all have and and how to, to
break free. So, Calvin, I'd love to jump in
right off the bat with a powerful question right up
front. You've written your first book,
Hiding from the School bus, Breaking free from Control,
Fear, isolation, and a childhoodwithout Education.
I can't wait to learn more aboutyour story, but first I I want
(01:08):
to just dive into this no schooled concept.
What does no schooled mean to you in your personal story?
Yeah, thanks, Robin. Thanks for having me no
schooled. It was a phrase that I that I
came up with because I grew up in a homeschooled family, but no
schooling was happening. And so when I talk about hiding
from the school bus and being noschooled, it's not some great
(01:30):
idea about how you can learn or teach yourself.
It's literally, I was raised without any education 0
whatsoever. At the age of seven, I asked my
mom, can I learn to read? And she, she assigned my sister
who's 10 years older than me to teach me to read when I was 7
years old. And that was the, that was the
(01:51):
extent of the schooling that I received as a child.
And so, you know, for me, getting unstuck was a lot of it
was overcoming the total and complete lack of education that
I had in my childhood. Wow, that's terrible and
incredible at the same time thatyou've you've taken yourself to
to where you are today with thatbeing the beginning.
(02:13):
How is that even? Does nobody monitor
homeschooling to make sure that people are are the kids are
learning? This my lack of knowledge of how
homeschooling works, but how's that possible?
Well, it's it is surprising, andit's probably less possible
today than it was when I was a child.
I'm 50 years old. I just turned 50 last month.
(02:34):
And so this was in the the, you know, late 70s and early 80s
that that this was happening. My family had moved my my father
took a position after having multiple failed business
ventures working for the Ute Native American tribe in the far
northeastern corner of Utah, wayout in the middle of nowhere.
I mean, it was like a trailer house at the end of 20 miles of
(02:58):
potholed, you know, Rd. been 20 miles followed by followed by 20
miles of dirt Rd. just out in the middle of nowhere, no
neighbors, no one knew we were there.
And my parents initially began homeschooling because of
necessity. I mean, there was just no way to
get the kids to school from thiscomplete isolation.
But isolation for my parents proved to be a very bad thing.
(03:21):
And their, you know, beliefs began to morph into more extreme
beliefs, more extreme religious beliefs, beliefs that all
institutions were, were bad, whether it was government,
healthcare or schooling. And though they were all bad and
evil and teaching people the wrong things.
And so it turned into this religious isolation from the
(03:43):
world. And the homeschooling initially
was happening, but by the time Icame along, being the 7th of
nine children, it had pretty much all gone away.
And so I didn't have books, I didn't have schooling, I didn't
have classroom time, I didn't have lecture time, I didn't have
study time. I just had to stay indoors.
And when we moved from that place, when I was only just just
(04:06):
a still a very, very young child, three years old, we moved
to a place where we were in the country on a farm, but had
neighbors, you know, one or two miles away.
And a school bus would come by. And my parents said, you need to
hide from the school bus or it will see you and they will
realize that you're not going toschool.
And we hid because we were afraid.
And then as I got older, when I was a teenager, I hid because I
(04:29):
knew that if, if somehow I endedup going to school, I would be
completely embarrassed. I knew nothing.
And I didn't know how to catch up to kids who had been going to
school their whole life when I didn't know very, very basic
things like how to add and subtract and, and you know, how
to just anything in general. So that was that was the the
(04:50):
challenge of my childhood mixed in with religious extremism and
some abuse and neglect and otherthings.
Holy smokes, man, unbelievable. OK, so before we go any further,
it's about 7000 questions that came across my mind as you were
talking there. I just want to regroup and go
back to the beginning. This is the unstuck movement.
I want to lay the groundwork. So I, I created this platform
(05:12):
because we've all been stuck somewhere in our lives.
We've all wanted to find breakthrough.
I know you have Calvin. Clearly I have everybody
watching and listening. We've you're stuck now somewhere
you've been stuck, right? So I want us to have this
platform as proof that breakthrough is possible for
you, no matter where you're at or what stage you are at in
life. We're sponsored by the connected
leaders Academy. Make sure you check out
(05:34):
connected leadersacademy.com. Over 500 heart centered
entrepreneurs from all over the world helping each other learn
and grow and become better people.
And also the Pro Podcaster Academy.
So if you're somebody who's always wanted to launch a
podcast, you wanted to make a lasting impact in people's
lives, be the go to authority inyour space and also make
incredible personal and professional connections, you
(05:55):
should launch your own podcast if you have one.
How do you streamline it, make it easier to execute and also
monetize it so it's a functionalmoney generating part of your
business. I'd love to help you do that.
The Pro Podcaster Academy is at robzwentz.com today.
Calvin Bagley with us on the show.
Raised in an extremist householdwhere education and safety were
(06:18):
denied, Calvin taught himself toread, think and lead.
Today, he's a successful entrepreneur, faith leader and
author who helps others reclaim their voice and rebuild their
lives. So man, there's so many
questions, right? But you mentioned religious
isolation from the world. What were your parents
intentions for you? How did they intend on you
(06:41):
learning the things and the experiences you need to have
when, when they had you so, so isolated the way it was or, or
did they maybe not even understand that process of what
they were trying to do themselves?
What what is your perspective onthat?
My perspective is, is that they wanted to be isolated from the
world and they didn't really want their children to integrate
(07:02):
into the world or have, you know, careers or that sort of
thing. You know, we lived on a farm.
We raised all our own food. We had animals and other things
and my parents lived like it wasthe 1880s, not the 1980s.
And so I don't think that they thought about those things.
They were more concerned about, you know, their, their extreme
religious beliefs. My parents were members of the
Church of Jesus Christ of LatterDay Saints, which is known as
(07:23):
the Mormon church, which I stillparticipate in today.
Although my, I built, I've, I'verebuilt my faith around love and
acceptance and, and the things that I believe that, that Jesus
Christ taught, which were different from the fear and the
total isolation that my, that myparents believed in.
So yeah, I don't, I, I don't think that there was a lot of, a
(07:45):
lot of intent with them to help us to be successful in the way
that most people would assume inlife.
It was more to keep us isolated,to keep us away from things that
they consider to be bad influence.
It it sounds like it was based out of fear, not out of love.
That's exactly what it was. And, and I please, I don't want
(08:07):
to ask any questions that might be offensive or anything like
that, but I have to pry a littlebit because I'm so curious about
this. Like how, how can you give me
some examples of, of that, that fear and their thought process?
Because I'm fascinated by peoplewho think that way because they
really, truly think. And this is this is such a
fascinating part of human natureis you think you're doing the
(08:27):
right thing. Like they thought they were
following Jesus and and doing what they were called to do, yet
they were leading you astray andthey were being LED astray.
What was that? Some of the the thought process
they had, it seemed right to them.
That was obviously so misguided.Yeah, well, I'll tell you I'm
about, I'm literally an open book.
I have borne my soul to the world.
(08:49):
So there's no question you can ask me that would offend me.
You know, my, my parents, they isolation was a bad thing for
them. And I, I shared that earlier,
but when my grandfather knew that my, that my dad was going
to go out into and, and manage this ranch in the middle of
nowhere, he tried to persuade myfather not to go.
(09:09):
And he said, it's not good for you to be away from family.
It's not good for you to be so far and be so isolated.
And I think my grandfather knew something about my dad and
understood that this would not be good.
And so isolation is a big, is a big theme here that when you're
isolated from the world. But first of all, you know,
we're talking about getting unstuck.
You can't get unstuck by yourself.
You need people. We are, we are social beings.
(09:33):
Now, it doesn't mean you need tohave 100 people all around you
or 1000 people. Maybe you do, maybe you're that
type of extroverted person, but you need relationship.
And the more that you isolate yourself from the world, the
stranger things can become. And, and that's what happened to
my parents. So I, I can't really tell you,
you know what, what were some ofthe extreme beliefs?
Well, I'll, I'll tell you that it started with things that were
(09:55):
very mainstream in the, in the Mormon religion, which, you
know, things like we don't drinkcoffee, we don't drink alcohol.
We, we keep the Sabbath day holy, we believe in Jesus
Christ, all of these things which are very normal and
mainstream. And then it turned into things
like, well, not only do we not drink coffee, but we don't eat
chocolate. Chocolate to my parents was
(10:16):
sinful soda or, you know, meat. My parents believed that we
should not eat red meat. We only, we almost ate no meat.
And so I was this very scrawny child, just deprived of protein,
you know, eating potatoes and vegetables every day for, for
most of my life growing up. And there were other things too
(10:36):
that became just very odd. My, you know, this was the like
late 70s and 80s. My parents didn't want to
participate in any popular culture.
So all of you know, I did go to church and that was my one
socialization that I had and the, the kids at church who I
would loosely call my friends, but I was very strange because I
was the homeschooled kid, right?But the, these kids at church,
(10:57):
they were enjoying the, the, thewhole cultural movement of Star
Wars. I mean, it was everything all
around us. And my, my father even found
evil in that saying that there can't be two sides of, of the
force. There's, there's either good or
evil. There isn't 1 force that can be
used for good or evil. So they just found fault in
(11:17):
everything around them, even coming home from church and
saying that everyone else at church was doing it wrong.
So you know, the the beliefs became more and more extreme and
came and their friends became other homeschoolers which many
of them were either polygamous or you know, very very extreme,
you know almost fundamentalist Mormons.
(11:40):
And it just further made their beliefs strange and strange.
Yeah, it's it's and and when you're saying those sorts of
things like then they sell chocolate to sin for this, this
that, you know, it's I can see how I I can understand that
mentality of like, oh, this thing is good.
It it's it's a pleasure full. That means it's got to be bad,
(12:02):
right, because over intelligencewill lead certain directions and
you don't even want to dabble into it because you never know
what's going to come out of that.
So I, I can see how that happens, but it also, I imagine
in the 70s and early 80s, homeschooling was much more rare
than it is now when we, we hear about it all the time now, kids
being homeschooled. I, I know lots of homeschooled
(12:23):
kids who are normal or they're, they're actually doing much
better than a lot of the kids that are in the public schools.
But imagine. I don't want to say anything
negative about homeschooling. I think that there's a place for
all of these things. That's why I termed coined the
phrase no schooled because homeschooling has become
legitimized even though it was less often legitimate in in my
(12:43):
time frame. So for you like not knowing how
to read until later in in your childhood and and basically
having no school, no education, anything like that.
How did you break free from that?
How did you Fast forward to where you are today?
Obviously that's, that's a lot of skipping over a lot of steps,
(13:05):
but what were some of the thingsfor you that started to stand
out? Is like, oh, shoot, I've, I've
missed out on all these things. I have to play catch up because
I would imagine a lot of the times what would happen is I,
there's so much to catch up on. It's too much that's
unattainable. I'm just going to keep living
this sort of lifestyle that I, Iwas raised in.
(13:26):
And I'm sorry, before you answerthat, I also want to mention
too, this whole isolation concept, right, Because that's
where the enemy attacks us in isolation.
That's where, that's where isolation away from people and
not interacting is the place where we're left vulnerable.
So having those connections is everything.
And it's interesting that your, your dad and mom were LED into
(13:48):
that. But what were some of the, the
signs for you of like, man, I, Ineed to catch up and, and, and
there's so much to overcome here.
That had to have been overwhelming.
Yeah, I appreciate that question.
And I will say that with isolation, a lot of people today
are are still isolated in groups.
I mean, if you look on social media and some of the things
that are said and done, I mean, just this past week, you can see
(14:10):
people that have really strange reactions to terrible things
because they're they're living in silos and I and isolated in
in public. So we have to be careful you can
become, especially with the advent of social media and how
these algorithms work, you can be isolated in a group.
Yeah, you're socially isolated even.
It's like I, I know lots of people, but we are all thinking
(14:30):
the same exact way. Yeah, very true.
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I, when I was 7
and I learned to read, I, I, I actually there, there were still
some remnants of homeschooling when I was that age of my older
siblings. And in the living room, we had
the alphabet across the ceiling.And when I was so excited that I
wanted to learn to read, I wouldcome downstairs and look up at
the alphabet and I was memorizing it 'cause I was
(14:51):
trying to be ready, but I didn'tknow which way it started.
So I inadvertently memorized it backwards.
And so I would come down and start on the side of the room
and go ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA and
go down the room backwards. And I had to relearn that along
with many of the things to learnto read.
And my father believed that if you teach a child to read,
(15:13):
that's all you need to do. If a child knows how to read
when they want to learn something, they will figure it
out. And I, I hate to say out loud
that I in a way, I sort of proved my dad's theory right,
but I would say that I was one of nine kids or maybe a couple
of his nine children that that worked.
And many have struggled throughout their entire life.
And I love my siblings. I don't want to say negative
things about them. Their stories are theirs.
(15:34):
But I was the 7th. And so my older siblings began
to rebel and they began to go against the things that that
the, my parents believed in, hadtaught.
And I think that that has softened my parents to some
extent. And so I am the benefactor of
being the seventh child in a way.
So that that was helpful for me,but not to the point that we
weren't still isolated and weren't able to go to school and
(15:56):
what have you. But it helped me to form some of
my own opinions and to see what was happening and say, well,
maybe maybe there's something else going on here.
Maybe this isn't the only way. And that was a gradual thing
that happened throughout my, my teenage years.
And when I was 19 years old, I and I, you know, I'm leaving out
(16:18):
throughout this time some prettyextreme abuse.
I and my siblings were subject to a lot of abuse, whether it
was emotional, physical and evensexual abuse, that it would
occur when you're in total isolation.
And so there was just so much struggle throughout those years
and many times that, that I justwas just in total despair
(16:44):
because I was so different. I, I couldn't relate to anyone
my age and just was just wanted more than anything, just wanted
to be normal, right, whatever normal is not realizing that
other people probably were feeling this too, but I was
really an outsider. So at 19, I, I, I decided prior
(17:05):
to that that I was going to go on a mission for my church.
And it's customary in, in the Mormon church that at 19 years
old, young men. Now it's 18, but when I was
young, it was 19. Go on missions.
And so I filled out all the paperwork.
I met with my Bishop and we submitted everything.
And it goes to Salt Lake City, UT.
And then you get a letter back and the letter tells you where
you're going to go on your mission.
And I opened my letter and I'm so excited.
(17:25):
And it says, you know, dear Elder Bagley, we, we called
missionaries elder and, and the,the women's sister.
Dear Elder Bagley, you've been called to serve as a
representative of the, of the Church of Jesus Christ and of
Jesus Christ to serve in Kudachiba, Brazil.
And I read that and I'm like, Ohmy gosh, I'm going to Africa
because I just, I didn't know where Brazil was.
(17:48):
And then I realized, hey, I'm going to South America, which is
that's cool too. And I'm going to speak
Portuguese. And I was so excited.
And that experience was so critical in helping me to form
new beliefs. I went to Mission, the
missionary training center in Provo, UT, and that was the
first time I had ever sat in a classroom and attended anything
(18:12):
that was kind of like school where I learned to speak
Portuguese. And learning to speak Portuguese
taught me so much about English.It taught me what, what a verb
was and what a noun was and how to what, what it meant to
conjugate a verb and, and how sentence structure worked and
things. And so that was my first real
like education, I would say was learning to speak Portuguese.
(18:34):
So then I, I, just to summarize this, I went to Brazil.
I had all of these companions, you know, Brazilian, if you
notice the, the Mormon missionaries, it's always 22
together and we call them a companion.
So I had all these companions and they were all going to go to
BYUI, had one companion that wasgoing to go to Stanford, one
that was going to, to ASU. And I really wanted and felt
(18:56):
like, hey, I'd learned Portuguese.
I want to go to college. And so I came back from, from
Brazil with this, this mission that I was going to, to study
and learn and get into college, even though I had no education
and, and that was my next step. And that was a a big journey as
well. Were your parents open to that?
(19:17):
Do they like go do it or was it met with a lot of resistance?
No, it was. It was not met with support when
I studied to get my GED. I got my GED just before I
turned 22. My father said.
What do you need that for you. You need a piece of paper for
them to tell you're smart. My father has passed away and
(19:39):
and I love my father and I don't, I don't hold anger and
resentment to him, but that thatis how he that is how he reacted
to that. Yeah, I think one of the best
things we can learn and understand, which takes time
and, and, and we all get there at different times, is that our
parents did the best they could with what they had, right.
(20:00):
And that's. I believe that to be true.
I believe that to be a situationfor everybody.
We, we do the best with what we have.
Not saying we can't be self aware and always work to be
better and to be a lifelong learner to do better, but a lot
of the times we get stuck where we're at.
I think if we're really concerned about what other
people should have done, then westart to lose responsibility for
(20:22):
our own actions. Yeah, 100%.
So you went? So you went to college?
Yeah, so I did, I, I, I, after Igot my GED, I studied for the
ACT and I took the ACT exam 21 years old, you know, right
before I turned 22, I was in theroom with all these high school
kids, you know, as and they're all taking their, their college
(20:47):
entrance exam. And so am I and I failed it
miserably. I just, there was, there was no
way that if you in a few months of studying at night, I could
catch up on 12 years of schooling.
And so, you know, I, I tell people that I the reality of the
situation, you can't fail the ACT, which is nice, but as close
as you can get to failing is what I did.
Yeah. I, I scored a 16, which I could
(21:09):
not get you into any, any college anywhere.
I'd, I applied even even just toa Community College that had an
extension, you know, service near the area where I lived in
this little town up in up in Utah and was denied by every,
everyone because I, I was not. I just had failed support so
badly. Well, at that time, my brother
(21:30):
had already moved to Las Vegas. The brother just older than me
and he was married to a woman who was a registered nurse and
she had gone through college. And the two of them really took
an interest to say, Calvin will help you out.
Why don't you come down to Las Vegas, live with us.
And Julie, my sister-in-law, will help you to learn the
things you don't know. And so I came to Las Vegas the
(21:52):
month of my 22nd birthday and began this new life here where I
still live in Las Vegas today, you know, 30 years later.
And she helped me to learn a lotof basic things.
She, she took me to the store called Learning is Fun.
We bought all of the grade booksfor math from grades three
through 12 because we had gone through and said, hey, where,
(22:13):
what's the place that I, that I understand when it comes to
math. And it was second grade.
That's I could do second grade math at 22 years old.
And so we took, we bought gradesthree through 12 and I was
studying, studying at night whenshe came home from her 12 hour
shift at the at Sunrise Hospital.
She would come and sit with me at the kitchen table and explain
things that I had not been able to figure out that day.
(22:34):
And then I, but I still was like, how am I going to get into
college, You know? And she said, you just need to
talk. Someone just needs to hear your
story. If, if one of the admissions
counselors hears your story, they're going to let you in.
And so I took faith in, in her, in her faith.
And I had an appointment with anadmissions counselor at the
University of Nevada, Las Vegas.And I went in and I explained to
her, look, I've been working full time like as, as a child
(22:55):
labor since the day I was born. Basically, I've been laboring on
a farm and everything. I'd had no education.
I, I learned to speak Portuguese.
I have faith in myself and the ability to learn.
I studied on my own and got my GED.
Yes, I felt the ACT, but I, I'm doing a lot of work to, you
know, I can learn. And I would try to be as
confident as possible, even though I had a hard time looking
her in the face because I reallyfelt like I wasn't, I wasn't, I
(23:18):
wasn't good enough, you know, And she listened to my story and
said, you know what? We're, we're going to find a way
for you. Like.
And So what they did is they, she gave me two semesters to
audit classes. I wouldn't be an admitted
student. My grades wouldn't count.
And if I got passing grades, they would admit me and then
(23:39):
they would give me credit for those classes.
Wow. And so I went to UNLV for two
semesters as a non admitted student and I passed my classes.
I earned A4 point O Actually, I studied very hard, worked very
hard and was admitted into UNLV and that is how I worked my way
and managed to get into college.Amazing, Calvin, that's
(24:00):
incredible. What a blessing that is.
That's such a cool story. I want we have to pause real
fast to shout the sponsor of theshow.
When we come back, though, I named this episode Reclaiming
Childhood, Reclaiming Faith. And I want to talk about the
faith end of that because it sounds like clearly God has been
with you this whole time, guiding you in this journey.
But it sounds like that was something you wrestled with and
(24:22):
you struggled with because of your upbringing.
So I want to dive into that in one minute when we come back.
Are you struggling to make consistent, valuable content for
yourself? Do you want to have an efficient
and effective way to create content that attracts the people
that you want to connect with inlife, the people you want to
build relationships with in business?
Do you want to be the go to authority at what you do, at
(24:44):
what you're great at? Would it be helpful for you if
you had a platform that connectsyou to incredible people in your
industry? The kind of platform that gets
you leads and lands you clients without you having to beat down
anybody's door or blow up anybody's inbox.
Whether you're already creating content or you're desiring to
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you for a while, I urge you and encourage you to check out the
(25:07):
Pro Podcaster Academy. Get started right now.
Join the wait list at robzwentz.com.
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If you're an entrepreneur and you're looking to grow
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(25:30):
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join us. Take care.
(25:52):
Calvin, this is a fascinating conversation and I, we only have
40 minutes, but it's not going to be enough time for me, me to
even like get into a lot of the stuff I want to get into.
So I'm just saying right now we got to, we got to do a second
one. We got to come back and talk
some more. So talk about, yeah, your, your,
your faith journey because I can't imagine you being
(26:13):
challenged, but clearly the Lordwas with you, guiding you
through this journey you've gonethrough.
So can you talk about how that what that journey's been like
for you throughout your life? Yeah, I was.
At the age of eight, I was baptized.
That's the age that children arebaptized in the LDS church or
(26:34):
the Mormon Church. And at that time, you know, I
should go back a little further.I had a primary teacher when I
was a child that was just so important to me.
And I really believed I didn't. I didn't know if I was loved at
home. I didn't feel loved at home, but
I knew that Wilma Rob loved me and I loved her.
(26:56):
And you know, there's in in my story, I tell the tragic story
of her life ending in a car accident that that my mother was
driving the car. I was sitting in the car, Wilma
was in the passenger seat. And she died when my mother
struck a horse and at night and didn't see it.
And it's a tragic, it was a tragic story and a tragic, just
extreme tragedy for a child to experience.
(27:18):
But but I knew Wilma loved me and I loved her so much.
And I felt something in church that I didn't feel at home.
And even though my parents, you know, practice all of the
things, you know, we we read scripture, we had family prayer,
we prayed over all of our meals.Often times those things,
instead of feeling spiritual to me, they felt manipulative and
(27:41):
angry and what have you. But at church it was different
and I felt something at church. And I think part of what makes
my story unique from many otherswho've experienced religious
and, and other trauma in childhood, like the like the
book educated Tara Westover. It's an incredible book.
I, I, I read her book and I was like, wow, she's it's like she's
telling my story, except that she also threw out all religion
(28:04):
and God with, with as she left her, her, her parents beliefs
behind. And I'm very, very sensitive to
the Spirit. And I, I just, I felt something
at church from the time I was little.
And when I was baptized at 8 years old, I felt A rush of
warmth and, and love wash over me that stayed with me.
(28:27):
And then when I went and, and itcarried me through.
And when I went to Brazil and I was preaching Jesus Christ to
the people of Brazil and I was talking about his love and, and
teaching, you know, baptism and faith and, and belief in Christ.
And I had so many incredible experiences.
I write about one in my, in my book where I blessed a child, a
(28:50):
woman saw us and said, you're, you're, you're pastors, right?
Come bless my child. He's about to die.
And we came into this room wherethis child was, was just lying
on a bed just so you could feel the darkness and the, the
thickness of death in the air. And I just, I thought, this
child is dying. Can't even hardly breathe.
And we, we blessed and prayed over that child.
And the very next day we came back to check on him and he was
(29:12):
playing soccer in the street andjust just, I couldn't.
And the, and the woman said, youknow, I prayed for God to God
and he sent you and I said, well, why don't you come to
church with us? And she's like, Oh no, that's
OK. I have my own religion.
And I, and for me, it was this moment that was just completely
separated me from my parents beliefs that God's love is
conditional, that you had to, you had to do this and this and
(29:33):
this for God to love you. No, God loves you.
He loves everyone no matter what.
And the only question is not, does God love me, but do I love
God? And will I change who I am
because of my love for him? Because he's not going to change
his love for me based on, on what I do, you know, and it just
fractured my, my relationship with my beliefs of my parents
(29:54):
and, and turned into something very different.
And so, you know, I, I Fast forward through my life, I, I've
actually served in clergy positions in my church.
I served as a Bishop six years ago.
I was, I was a Bishop in the, inthe Mormon Church and was
helping others and, and teachingand my, my, a Bishop is like a
pastor, but in the Mormon church, it's a lay ministry.
(30:15):
And so I serve, you know, typically a Bishop will be a
Bishop for five years. And I was the Bishop of my, of
my congregation and it was a congregation of about 450
people. And so, yeah, I mean, I, I don't
know how, how it worked. I feel like God, just He, He
spoke to me and speaks to all ofus and I was fortunate to have
(30:38):
felt it and to have always believed it and I have been so
blessed for it. You know, I just as you're
talking there, it's incredible. It's so, and these are the kind
of things that only God knows and we, we won't know until
we're, we're, you know, we're, we're with him.
But like your parents, you said they, they prayed and they read
scripture and they went to church and they, they, it seems
like they incorporated got into their house all the time, but it
(31:01):
came from this place of like anger and manipulation.
I don't, I know you don't know the answer to this, but what do
you think that was like? Obviously that's like, you know,
that's, that's the, the enemy maybe twisting and contorting
what they were reading. But what do you think it was
about them that they, they had the, the, they were doing the
things, but they were missing that love.
(31:23):
Maybe you can't answer that. I'm just curious what your
thoughts are on that because I that that kind of stuff always
perplexes me. I think that if, if my parents
were, were able to speak about it today, they would probably
say that it was coming from a place of love.
I think that they were confused.And I, I think that my parents
had their own traumas and had their own, you know, issues and,
(31:45):
and some mental health challenges that were, they were
undiagnosed and untreated. So, you know, I, I think truly
what you said, they were doing the best they could, although
it, it hurt a lot of us, it really hurt us and it hurt my
siblings and hurt me. So yeah, I, I couldn't, I
couldn't really answer what theywere thinking other than to say
they thought they were doing it right.
(32:08):
Yeah, I thought they were doing it right.
They were doing the best they could.
What what what do you think it was about you that that made you
different because this, this sort of thing, the sort of
things that you went through, most people would not bounce
back from or would stay stuck incertain areas.
What, what do you think it was about you and your relationship
with God that that led to all ofthese breakthroughs to lead you
(32:31):
to the office that you're in right now doing your podcast and
telling your story, 'cause I know this for a fact.
And I anybody who's told their story knows the healing that
comes from that and the blessings that come from that.
Being able to to tell your story, your testimony not only
heals you, but then helps to heal the people.
And what do you think it was about you that that separated
(32:52):
you 'cause lots of people in your situation would not be in
the same place that you're at? Yeah, I know that's true because
it's been a struggle for many ofmy siblings and I I don't, I
don't think everyone has to arrive at the same end.
If we all keep struggling and fighting and, and, and trying to
improve ourselves, our end can be different.
(33:13):
You know, the, we, we Christ thought about the parable of the
talents that everyone is given talents and we are to multiply
them. We're not to bury them in the
earth. And you know what?
Some of my talents have been in business of where I where I've
had a lot of success and been very blessed.
Some of my talent has been in being able to overcome the, the,
the challenges of my childhood. And so I've just been trying to
(33:34):
improve on what I was given and not to judge what other people
were given. You know, some of my siblings
are quite broken and, but I lovethem and they probably would be
hurt with me saying that they'rebroken.
I think that they're doing the very best that they can.
So I think a few of the things that that I have that have
helped me one is, is that I tendto have a pretty short memory,
(33:58):
IA memory, a short memory to long memory.
And I've thought talking about my mental memory, you know, I
can remember very vividly the things that happened, but my
emotional memory, you know, the ability to move on and not and
not carry a grudge. You know, there's a saying that
says when you're when you carry a grudge, when you're angry with
someone else, it's like drinkingpoison and hoping that they die.
I've been able to let go of a lot of that poison over my life
(34:19):
and to not harbor anger and hatred and, and, and things.
And you know, that is, has been a great blessing for me to be
able to just let some things go.And I tell people that the past
is in service of you today. And the past changes and you're
the one who decides what it means.
And it's not that the events of the past change, although
(34:41):
everyone remembers the events differently, but the events
don't change. But the meaning you give them is
different from what all the whatever meaning that other
people give them. So how did people survive?
How did, how did the Jews survive the Holocaust?
Those who survived part, part ofpart luck.
But, and I don't mean survive, but like afterwards, you know,
(35:02):
there, there were some like Viktor Frankel.
I mean, what an incredible, incredible soul.
And the things that he taught about, you know, you, they can't
take away your free will of, of reaction.
Well, I think that that's the, for me, that's, that's what I, I
believe. I believe the past is in service
for you today. If you want to be a victim, then
(35:22):
the past is in service to you and you can claim that you're a
victim. If you want to overcome and and
and produce more out of your life then the past will give you
and inform you on on how to do that as well.
Yeah, I always take notes when we're we're doing these shows
and I'm always looking for themes.
Man, the theme you just said there was so good, your
(35:44):
emotional memory and how to how,how to shorten your emotional
memory or reframe it. I guess that's really, really
good. I love that.
I've never heard that said before.
And I, I think that's, that's sopowerful to not hang on to those
(36:04):
things because I was in therapy one time years ago, my therapist
had said to me, some people haveemotions like water and some
people have emotions like honey and, and Rob, it seems like you
have emotions like honey, like where something hits you and it,
it sticks, right. And some people have it where it
hits them and it just just washes off and it's gone.
And I thought, wow, that's so true.
It seems like things stick to melike honey and that causes you
(36:29):
to carry around a lot of pain. And so learning how to let and
pray prayer, like asking God like help me let these things
go, not to carry them around everywhere that I go and apply
them to all my situations. That's really, really good.
Some of us are naturally born with that.
Some of us are given that grace in our lives.
Other people, we have to work onthat.
And those are all kind of the, you know, the, the, the, the
(36:50):
cross we bear as we as we live. One of the things I heard you
say too, that always makes me think we all have baggage, but
we can turn it into luggage, right.
And that's, this has been comingup for me a lot in my life
lately is, you know, baggage. There are bags you carry with
(37:10):
you that weigh you down, that hurt you, that wear you out.
Luggage, you need it. Like when I go on vacation or I
go somewhere, I'm doing something important.
I need my luggage 'cause that's all my stuff that I need.
And it can be the same stuff right as you turn the baggage,
the pane into luggage. Now the stuff that used to wear
you down and wear you out. Now you take it with you because
it helps you and it also helps people that you you encounter.
(37:35):
How did you or, or when did you decide to start telling your
story? Because I imagine there was a
lot of years of, of shame and, and not telling the story, not
using it to your advantage and helping other people with it.
Was there a turning point where you were like, now I've got to,
I've got to use this? Yeah, there was a clear turning
point for me, and it was about five years ago.
(37:56):
You know, I, I, it's, it's a gradual process of, you know,
being able to open up to the world and to share who you
really are. I think a lot of us go through
that as we age. But for me, there was also this
really key moment I became quitesuccessful in business.
I own several businesses, I'm anentrepreneur.
I like to start things all the time.
I'm, I, I can get things to like80% and I need people around me
(38:18):
to help me finish stuff because I, I want to start something new
again. And one of the companies that I
started is called Nuvo Health and we help people with their
Medicare insurance and we have grown and grown.
We help people all over the country.
We've helped over 60,000 people to make a decision about the
type of, of health and Medicare insurance that they have.
And very proud of that. And the, and the good work that
we do and that we do it from a, a place of, of, of taking care
(38:43):
of people and doing what's right, you know, And so I, I
became kind of a leader in, in this space.
And with that success, I joined this group.
That's the, it's called the genius Network.
And it's very similar to your sponsor group.
It's a group of people who are, who are looking to like, like,
like the connected Academy are looking to improve themselves,
(39:04):
to be around other people who are, who want to be high
performers and to find a networkand a group of people that are
striving for excellence and to do more in their life.
And so I was a part of the of a group like this and a business
leader who I really look up to Gino Wickman, who wrote the book
Traction is founded the E OS entrepreneurs.
(39:24):
One of my favorite books I I usethat with every client that I
work with. OK.
Yes, it's fantastic, right? It's amazing, yeah.
So I'm sitting in a room with Gino and I'm like, Oh my gosh,
like this is a major moment in my life to arrive in a room with
100 people with Gino and to hearhim speak.
And I'm, I'm just so stoked to hear about all this business
stuff and everything. And, and Geno sits down.
(39:46):
You know, if, if you follow Gino, which apparently you do,
you know that he had, he sold EOS not, not only about five
years ago. And I, I'm, I'm just, it's like
sitting at the, the feet of someone I've, I've looked up to
and respected for so long. And he starts to talk and, and
what he says is so different from what I expect.
Instead of talking about business and and and EOS and all
(40:09):
these other things, he starts totalk about his personal journey
and how he realized at one point.
That he didn't love himself. And I'm like, wow, I'm like,
this is Gino. This is what is he talking
about? And he says, let me tell you,
let me take you all on this little journey.
And he's like, he says, close your eyes and let's visualize
for a minute. And so I'm playing along, 'cause
I mean, it's Gino, right? And he, he takes you, he's like,
(40:30):
go into your heart. And what do you see there?
Now it's find the door to your heart and open the door to your
heart. And what do you see inside?
This was, this is just five years ago.
And I am like, I see just like, like shame, darkness.
It's like a black spot. I don't know.
I don't, I don't want to open the door when everyone around me
(40:53):
is talking about like butterflies and rainbows and,
you know, unicorns and all this,you know, beautiful stuff.
And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I just see darkness.
And then Gino says when he opened his heart at this, when
he did the same thing and openedhis heart, he just saw darkness.
And that is what led him on this, on this journey to
(41:13):
discover why am I dark inside when I've accomplished so many
great things in life. And so I'm listening to him and
I'm thinking, OK, I have I went on a mission for my church.
I profess the name of Jesus Christ in Brazil.
I have stayed in, in the religion that my parents used,
as you know, in, in fear, I stayed in love.
(41:33):
I became a Bishop myself and I, I counseled people and helped
them. I've become successful in
business and I have, you know, hundreds of people who make
their living off of the company that I started.
And I'm very proud of, of, of all these things.
Why don't I love myself? Why do I have darkness inside?
I, I should have light inside. And Gino inspired me to then go
(41:54):
on my own journey to, to discover why.
Why don't why am I dark inside? And wow, you know, that's that's
we could spend an hour on that. But it was this discovery for me
that I needed to find all of these different parts of me and
work with the therapist also. I mean, I believe, I believe so
(42:15):
much in God and I believe that He could lead us to tools that
will help us. It's not.
Sometimes the prayer alone is not is just not going to do it.
Yeah. I take the work and do action.
If I could interject, it's really interesting.
What God usually does with me islike he I pray about stuff and
then I'm like, where's where's the, I'm in the scripture?
And I'm like, where's the answerin here?
God, why aren't you telling me the answer?
(42:35):
Why aren't you speaking to me? And he's like, dummy.
Well, he doesn't say dummy, but he says, Rob, I brought this
person into your life to help you and you're not paying
attention to that person. I brought the situation in your
life to help you. Like it's right in front of your
face. But we're it's, it's that
staying, staying open, right? Staying aware, staying in, in
constant prayer like we, we, we miss things.
(42:55):
We missed the obvious stuff. So that's a really good point.
I love that. Yeah, absolutely.
So I, I found a therapist who shared my faith.
I, I went to multiples first and, and just, and didn't find
anyone that I really connected with or felt was going to help
me until I found the right person who, who, like I said,
shared my faith with. I think it's really important
if, if, if you're, you know, someone who's listening and
(43:15):
saying, I think I need to deal with the traumas of my past that
are unresolved or that I, it's not that they're unresolved,
it's that your body doesn't knowthat they happened in the past.
And I love the book The Body keeps the score, talks about how
your, your body, like literally in your cells, each of your
cells has a brain essentially. And it's, and it thinks that
when something happens, and sometimes people call them
(43:37):
triggers, I don't love the word trigger because I think like, I
think that it gets used improperly today.
But we have these reactions to things that your body thinks
that it just happened again. It doesn't realize and it is
preparing and it's, it's shielding itself for something
to happen again that happened 40years ago, right?
So that this, my therapist, John, has been a godsend for me.
(43:58):
And he helped me to identify these different parts of myself,
including the dark part and realized that that dark part of
me that houses a lot of anger and, and other things still is
part of me and is still worthy of loving.
It's still, I can still love my,that part of me because it was
protecting other parts of me, the, the sensitive and
(44:19):
vulnerable parts of me. And so you know that, that
that's, that has been a major part of my journey this, this
last five years to, to, for me to get to sit before you today
and say, now I can say one of mygreatest accomplishments is that
now I love myself and I appreciate the different parts
of me that has helped me to survive and be here today.
Yeah, man, that's so good. That's that's the, that's the
(44:44):
when we understand how much God loves us, then we can love
ourselves, love others, right? It's like it's a, you have to
understand that that pattern. And this is really interesting,
man, because I know this is like, for me, definitely a
divine moment. So I just want to acknowledge
that and thank God for it because I had a dream a couple
of nights ago, I've been having like some wild dreams lately.
(45:05):
In this dream, I'm in like this lightning storm.
And in the lightning, I saw my reflection in one of the
lightning bolts. But I knew in the dream that
like I was seeing myself, but I knew that I was seeing the
enemy. I didn't understand what it
meant at first. I went downstairs, I wrote it
down and I was like praying about it.
(45:25):
And what God had revealed to me was that when I think I'm
battling me, I'm battling the old me, which is like, you know,
the sin for me that the old man,as it says in the Bible, right?
I'm battling this old man. Like, like you just said, in new
(45:46):
situations, that old part of me will come up.
And then all that is like this fear, shame, guilt, you know,
all this stuff, anger, all the stuff that is like the old me is
like still showing up. And I'm seeing my reflection
because I'm seeing like, oh, OK,that's I don't know if this, I
don't know if this makes sense or not, but it makes sense to
me. So I'm trying to explain the
best that I can. But the point is that I'm
(46:09):
seeing, I thought that I was seeing, I thought that I was
supposed to see the enemy in that lightning bolt, but I was
seeing myself because what God was showing me was that I was
seeing the old version of me. And the old version of me is all
that junk that you don't need, that isn't from God.
And to recognize that, recognizelike, OK, I might be thinking a
certain way about a situation based on my past, and that past
(46:32):
has not define me. That is not who I am.
I've been created new. God's renewed my mind.
But I need to constantly remind myself of that, stay in prayer
about that so that I can embracewho I truly am, right?
And telling your story right, being able to embrace who you
truly are. When you can tell your story,
you know you've healed, right. And you can tell from a place of
(46:54):
victory, not a place of still being there.
And I've told my story many times to different people.
Not my whole story maybe, but but parts of my story.
And I've told it from a place ofI can tell when I tell it, I can
tell I'm not healed from it yet.So now when I start to tell it
again, I feel healing from it. Not every part of it, but there
are parts of it where I can speak to it like, yeah, it
(47:15):
sounds bad, but it's actually good.
Like I needed that to get to where I am now.
And now I can help other people because I've I've used that the
baggage to luggage, the, the mess to message.
And so thank you for sharing that.
And I because that's, that's really helpful.
And we need to hear this. This is why I have this podcast.
(47:37):
You need to hear other people's stories of breakthrough.
At least I do. I need to hear other people's
stories of breakthrough because it continually reminds me, man,
everybody goes through stuff andyour stuff isn't your stuff
might look different than my stuff, but it to us, it's all
the same. We just got to let God work us
through that stuff to to teach us that that those things don't
(47:59):
define who we are, but we can use those things as we move
forward in life. And we're supposed to use those
things to help other people findtheir breakthrough and
ultimately lead them to Jesus because that's that's what's
going to that's who is going to reveal who we truly were created
to be rich, reveal our true identity.
(48:20):
So, Calvin, I want to thank you for that.
Thank you. Yeah, I agree with everything
you said. I mean that you said it very
eloquently. Mess to the message, the baggage
to the luggage. That's the first time I've heard
that one. I'm going to take that with me
because it's it's very true. And I say that that God is the
ultimate lemons to lemonade guy,Whatever lemons you've been
(48:43):
handed, he can make the most beautiful lemonade in your life.
And, and I feel like that's, youknow, that's been a story in my
life. Have you been listening to a lot
of Forrest Frank lately? Is that where?
You're getting. No, I haven't.
Oh. Man, go go listen to Lemonade by
Forrest Frank. You'll love it.
OK. Yeah, OK.
Yeah, that's a good one. I'll I'll check it.
Out probably probably the biggest Christian hit right now
out there. Awesome.
(49:04):
Well, Calvin, listen, we got to go, but I, I'd love to have you
back 'cause there's so many other things I'd love to talk.
Just go more in depth about thatjourney and the breakthroughs
that you found and yeah, let's do that.
So that, that would be really, really cool.
But I want to encourage people before we sign off to get your
book right so they can buy your book right now.
(49:24):
It is I'm trying to find it right here hiding from the
school bus. Go, go get that.
Can they get that on your on your website?
It's available anywhere books are sold, or you can look it up
at Hiding from theschoolbus.com.Hiding from theschoolbus.com.
Very cool. All right.
Thank you, Sir. Before we sign off too, say
we're never going to talk to youagain.
Say nobody in this ever, you know, gets a chance to connect
(49:46):
with you again. What is a lasting message that
you'd want to share with the audience?
I would say that wherever you are today, it is a result of
where you came from. So if you can find in your life
to love yourself as as I've shared that I have reached, then
everything in the past you can embrace and say I wouldn't go
back and change anything. It's all has made me who I am
(50:09):
and I can love who I am and be proud of who I am and what I've
accomplished in my life. And so there's no need to change
the past. The past truly can be in service
to you today. Amen.
That is the truth. Another powerful message, a true
testimony of breakthrough. Until next time, this has been
the unstuck movement.
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