September 16, 2025 • 46 mins
What if podcasting could change the trajectory of your life—not just your business? In this episode, you’ll hear how Alex Sanfilippo went from selling golf balls as a kid to becoming one of the most recognized voices in the podcasting world. We explore how hitting rock bottom and finding faith shaped his path, why serving listeners comes before chasing downloads, and what it really takes to grow in both influence and purpose through podcasting.
This episode is with Alex Sanfilippo.
Alex Sanfilippo is a podcaster and the founder of PodMatch.com, a platform that automatically matches podcast hosts and guests for interviews. Through PodMatch and his podcast titled Podcasting Made Simple, Alex helps independent podcasters grow their influence and revenue so they can better serve their listeners!
Find out more about Alex Sanfilippo by visiting https://podmatch.com/free.
Instead of self-promotion, Alex encourages listeners to visit PodMatch.com/free—a free platform that makes it easy for podcast hosts and guests to connect, collaborate, and create meaningful conversations.
🔑Rob Z Wentz is a Leadership Communication Expert. Rob teaches, trains, and develops people and organizations to become exceptional communicators and leaders. With Rob, leaders find clarity, take action, and succeed with integrity, making them “the expert” in their industry.
💻Learn more about LIT Coaching & Schedule a call w/ Rob at LeadImpactTransform.com
Discover everything about Rob Z 📲 Linktr.ee/RobZWentz
🌐Build Your Brand: Join the Pro Podcaster Academy at RobZWentz.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:24):
Welcome back to the Unstuck movement.
I am your host Rob Z. These are true testimonies of
breakthrough. Today we have the incredible the
founder of Podmatch with us, Alex Sanfilippo on the podcast.
Did I say your last name Right? You sure did, aw.
Man, yes, this is something I'lldo is I'll rehearse the last
name. Then when I asked to say it
live, I'm like, did I get it right or not?
(00:45):
And I did. Really rare, but you did.
So congratulations. That's that's an early win for
this episode. All right, we're starting off
with some fire. Awesome, man.
So I'd love to jump in right offthe bat with a powerful question
we're going to talk today, podcast growth and how that
leads to personal development inyour life, faith and leadership,
resilience, the entrepreneur journey and being a server and a
(01:06):
storyteller. And as the title of this episode
goes, I, I love this topic of how podcasting can be this
incredible tool for personal growth, for leadership.
And it's something that doesn't get talked about enough.
So for somebody who's the founder of one of the biggest
podcast platforms in the world, Alex, I want to know for you,
how has podcasting helped you grow personally, helped you grow
(01:28):
as a leader? Listen, as you said, Rob, this
is a question doesn't get talkedabout enough.
So I'm, I'm really excited to jump into this.
I'm just going to go into some of my back story because it
really kind of leads to how personal growth can happen
through podcasting. I'm going to go back to my
childhood. I'll make this pretty brief
everybody, but I, I do want to share.
When I was a kid, I was actuallydyslexic and I really struggled
(01:48):
to learn to read into, to write.And as a result, I also had
trouble speaking. Like it just didn't come natural
to me. And I end up being a pretty
quiet kid for the most part, even though like I now today
would tell you I'm like a big time extrovert.
I love being around people. I talk really fast, really loud
and but that just wasn't my reality back then.
And, and listen, I'm just going to like I'm, I'm a follower of
(02:10):
Jesus and I am thankful that like I was, I was healed from
that. Those scars remain for a long
time and throughout school I really struggle specifically in
English and anything that had todo with speaking were like big
struggle points for me now. So I was a quiet kid, dyslexic
for a bit, right? Like really struggle.
But I realized that there were so many things in my head when I
became an adult and I started leading teams in, in
(02:31):
organizations and, and actually doing a little bit of speaking
that I didn't really know what Ithought I knew.
And, and what I mean by that is there was things in my head,
they were incomplete thoughts that when I started to try to
speak them, I realized I don't actually know this very well.
I've got an incomplete thought in my head.
Like it, it's kind of there. I can probably get you a 90%,
(02:52):
but who knows? When you're teaching somebody
or, or, or talking to a group ofpeople and you can only get 90%
of the information out, that last 10% is critical for someone
else to connect the dots, including ourselves as, as
speakers often. And so I, I really, I struggled
with that. So I was like, man, you know, I
was already kind of quiet as a kid.
Like I just need to make sure I only talk about exactly what I
know, right? Like I, I can't stretch out out
(03:13):
of this. I can't, can't seem to
articulate my thoughts very well.
And then one day I, I found podcast guesting of all things.
So like, I, I found podcasting through listening.
Like, I think most of us startedoff that way, right?
Like I didn't just like discoverit before I listened to a show,
but I really, really liked the conversational flow.
And So what do you know, I startgoing on podcast, I had a story
(03:33):
that was interesting to people and, and some things I'd
overcome some things I've been through and I started learning
to actually fully 100% articulate things that I thought
I only kind of knew. It turns out like communicating
them led me to the personal development that I needed to
learn to articulate an entire thought really well.
Now, again, going back to my childhood, these are probably
(03:54):
scars that just kind of followedme all the way through.
I just didn't develop the way that most people would, but this
kind of completed that path for me.
And so now here I was like goingon shows and realizing that I'm
actually growing by being on shows.
My ability to communicate, my ability to tell a story, my
ability to engage people and help other people actually level
up their in their own way through what I'm sharing was
(04:14):
actually taking place. And for me, now I look back,
it's like podcasting is like a, like one of the primary growth
tools in my life, both as a guest and as a host these days.
But I'll tell you what, like I, I don't think there's anything
to help me move the needle faster or or further than
podcasting. That is such a good point.
The point of when we have an idea in our head, we think it's
(04:39):
fully fleshed out, right? This, this happens so often.
Like, oh, that's a great idea. And you carry it around and
until you try to say it out loudand articulate it, you're like,
hold on a second. There's all these gaps and holes
in it because your brain kind oflike pieces things together
without you being fully finishedwith it.
And until you start talking about it, you're like, oh, man,
(04:59):
I, I thought I really knew this thing.
But now I can't actually get thewords that are in my head out of
my mouth. The thoughts that are in here, I
can't get them out. And similar to you, I was not
dyslexic growing up, but I was very shy, very introverted.
Really, the way I would describeit is I like had a version of me
inside that I didn't know how toget out.
And I, and I unknowingly got into radio broadcasting at 15
(05:23):
years old 'cause I, I had to figure this out, but I didn't
know God led me through it. I mean, I didn't necessarily
know God back then, but I, I, I,that's what was going on because
over the course of a 20 year career, I learned how to
articulate, I learned how to be myself.
I learned how to like come out of my shell.
And I think for so many people, especially, especially today,
(05:45):
because there's, there's less communication now in this form.
Like there's more communication online, texting, whatever it
might be, but there's less like really sitting down and talking
through things and articulating what you think, what you feel,
why you feel that way. And it's ironic, we're having
this conversation right now withCharlie Kirk passing away
recently. I, I think about like that guy
(06:05):
challenged a lot of people to really articulate their thoughts
because he did 'cause he fully talked about what he believed.
And the more you talk about whatyou believe, the more you find
holes in it and the more you find the, the truth and the
reality and what you're saying. And there's so much power in
that. That's why I always encourage
people, man, let alone a podcastis great for your, your personal
(06:29):
brand, for your business, for marketing, whatever.
But it helps you grow as a humanbeing.
It helps you actually listen to people and pay attention because
that is how we're actually goingto make real connections with
other people and for yourself. I'm curious on that end to the
act of listening, being able to listen and really connect with
(06:49):
others. How was that impacted through
guesting on podcasts? So listening, this is a good
follow up to this. I like that you you took it
here. Listening kind of came more
natural to me because again, going back to my childhood, like
I, I listened a lot, I was quieta lot.
And so I feel that maybe I had amore natural disposition to
listen. I'm not saying I've always like
(07:11):
listened and articulated and being able to like again, return
with a, a great conversation. But I'll tell you what, being
able to listen and understand goes a really, really long way.
So like, to me, even active listening is great, but I'm
actively listening with intent to understand what is being said
to me, which requires a kind of get out of her own shell a
little bit. Because I think that so many of
(07:32):
us when we're listening, we're not actually listening.
We're waiting for our chance to respond.
There's something we heard Rob and we're like, oh, I want to, I
want to comment on that. OK, Rob is going to keep on
talking. OK, He's almost done.
He's almost done. OK, Now I want to go back to
that, Right? I, I, I hear that so, so often.
And I actually think it's, it's really sad.
It's a missed opportunity to keep a conversation going in a
really healthy direction. And so for me, like listening,
(07:53):
I've I've learned, it's just that's how I learned to
communicate well. It starts with me first
listening and not using this newer developed skill of
actually being able to communicate and speak and
present well, but instead stepping back, letting go a
little bit and just following the flow of where it goes and
and listen. I'll tell you what all this you
talk about coming out of your shell, like learning to listen
is coming out of the shell for alot of people.
(08:14):
And I think to a previous episode, your show Rob was very
good. You had Bethany Stone on the
podcast. And forgive me if I get the date
wrong, but I want to call it outjust case anyone wants to go
back and check it out with September 5th, 2025.
It was the power of perspective is what you were talking about.
And something Bethany said is that growing is uncomfortable.
Growing takes intentional effort.
And I think for all of us, you're like, OK, I want to learn
(08:35):
to communicate better. I want to learn to listen
better. I want to learn to talk better.
Either side of that, whichever one's more your struggle or
perhaps both, which might be most of us, it's going to be
uncomfortable. It's going to require that you
sit quieter when you're listening to someone longer than
you want or that you share a little bit deeper than you think
that you want to or that you're willing to put yourself out
there even though you might like, I might not have a
complete thought, but I'm going to try it.
(08:56):
That stuff goes a really long way.
And it's, it's a 2 sided coin. You can't be, there's some
people that like are, are publicspeakers that don't know how to
listen. I'm like, OK, well, you're not a
great communicator. You're good at talking, right?
But a good communicator also understands the primary
objective of that is actually tolearn to listen really well and
then respond in a way that actually helps move the needle
forward. Yeah, man, it's, I hate to say a
(09:18):
lost art form, but I think it, it, I don't, I don't think it's
the right way to put it. I think it's just like we have
not put emphasis on it. And I, I, I mean, we're all
guilty of this. I still do it at times where I
can't wait to say something. I can't wait to, oh, I have a
good thing to say here and learning like it doesn't matter
that I have this thing to say, right?
(09:39):
And if it, if it's really that good, I'm going to remember it.
It's going to come back up. And, and, but I think so often
we feel like if I don't say thisnow, I just, I'm working with a
guy right now who runs a business, definitely has ADHD
and he's trying to balance out with him and his secretary
because he's allowed to step in on her at any point in time and,
(10:00):
and give her information when she's not prepared, but she's
not allowed to do it to him, right?
And I was like, you hate when that happens.
He was like, yeah, I hate when she does that.
I'm like, but you do it to her. And he's like, yeah, but I run
the business and I'm like, but it doesn't matter.
You're, you're, you're teaching her.
If she's modeling you right, youdo it to her, she's going to do
it to you. And you, it's also a practice
(10:22):
and self-control. I think that's the biggest part
here. Number one, you can practice
your memory by remembering the thing.
But the self-control and this it's, it's, it's, it's this
inflated self importance. So we think we, I have to say
this thing right now because everybody needs to hear it
because what I have to say is soimportant or it's, I'm going to
forget it. I need to say it so I don't
forget it. Both of those create bad
(10:44):
communication. They they they both destroy like
an active listening process. So I love that it's so good
before we go any further, I justwant to welcome everybody here.
This podcast, the unstuck movement created because I want
to find breakthrough. We've all been stuck at many
different places in our lives. We need to find breakthrough in
our lives. So I bring people on the show
who have found incredible breakthrough so that we can find
(11:05):
that for ourselves. Use these episodes as an
example. We're sponsored by the Connected
Leaders Academy. Make sure you check out
Connected leadersacademy.com. Over 500 heart centered
entrepreneurs from all over the world helping each other grow
and also the Pro Podcaster Academy.
So if you're somebody who wants to launch a podcast, you're not
sure how to do it, I'd love to walk you through that process to
make you the go to authority in your field, make a lasting
(11:27):
impact in people's lives, and also create incredible personal
and professional connections. And if you have a podcast, how
do you streamline it, make it easy to execute?
How do you monetize it and make it a real functional part of
your business? I would love to help you with
that at robzwentz.com. Alex Sanfilippa with us on the
show today. Turn setbacks in the stepping
(11:48):
stones Building 1 of podcasting's most
impactfulplatformspodmatch.com. His story inspires anyone
seeking to blend passion, service and purpose into their
entrepreneurial journey. And just kind of continuing on
with what we've been talking about, Let's talk about the
other end of podcasting because I the statistics now there's
(12:12):
well over, I think like 4 million podcasts, but you know,
like 90% of those podcasts nevermake it past 10 episodes.
None really get off the ground or go anywhere.
What would you say, because you,I'm sure you've talked to and
worked with thousands of people who have podcasts want to start
them. What would you say is one of the
most overlooked mistakes that podcasters make when they're
(12:33):
starting out trying to get off the ground?
The the very first mistake that's made is is pretty much
universally the the same thing. And it's it's false
expectations. And the expectation we'll have
is I'm going to become the next insert famous person's name
because I have a podcast, right?And and the reality is that
person's podcast is big because they have that name typically
(12:54):
before they had their podcast. And so because the most common
name in podcasting is Joe Rogan.I don't mean to like inflate his
numbers again, right? But like everyone's like, how
can I become the next Joe Rogan?I'm like, well, first you need
to have 30 years history in TV. Like I remember watching on TV
when I was a kid, like Fear Factor when I grew up watching,
I loved it, right? So go ahead and start there,
right? Like, and if you're already over
(13:14):
the age of 30 or however old he was when he started that, like
you're probably too late to build up that that type of
legacy becoming like an A list celebrity.
I was like, so you're out, right?
Like, but the reality is some ofus, we just see these big
numbers. We see the top, it's actually
the top 001 percent, .001%. And we look at that and say, I'm
going to be just like that. I mean, it doesn't happen in
(13:36):
three weeks, six weeks, 8 weeks,whatever might be.
We're like, OK, well this podcasting thing just doesn't
work. And the reality is it's unmet
expectations that I just call false expectations.
You didn't actually sit down to think about why am I actually
doing this? What is the purpose behind it?
Now, if the purpose is to get rich and famous, I'll just stop
you right there. It's, it's, I'm not trying to be
rude or mean or like a negative by any means, but that's just
(13:58):
not the reality. What happens?
There are much easier ways to become rich and famous.
I don't suggest it. You need to have a real purpose,
something that goes into your core, into your heart that says
This is why I'm doing this in the 1st place.
If you want to actually make it,that's the number one reason
people stop. Yeah, I would say too, if you're
going anything is to become richand famous, you need to re
prioritize your goals because rich and famous is should be the
(14:20):
outcome. That's an effect of why you're
doing something. And I in coaching in general
with podcast coaching or workingwith businesses, I mean, or just
any, anything in our life, like what is the vision for what
you're doing? Who are you serving?
And really boil it down to like,this is something that even if I
don't see the rich and famous part for 20 years, doesn't
(14:42):
matter because I love doing it so much.
I have such a desire to do it because I know that I'm growing.
I know I'm helping other people growing.
How many wins can you create by doing what you're doing and make
a difference, right? Because before we started, we
mentioned I always and I always think of this and especially
whenever I lose sight of why I'mdoing what I'm doing.
If one person hears 1 little thing that I talked about or
(15:05):
somebody else talked about at myshow and that makes an impact on
them, that gives them an idea that makes them a better person,
makes them a better, you know, member of their family, helps
them to serve better in their community, whatever it is like
that's the real goal. And if you keep it that simple,
then that's going to build on itself and you're going to see
that compound interest from thatand that that growth is going to
(15:29):
continue to add up. So for you, what sparked you to,
to, I mean, obviously the dyslexia getting past that God
helped you to, to, to grow through that.
But when it came to podcasting, what was it initially like that
made you dive into it? Did you, did you come into it
thinking you were going to be rich and famous?
What was the goal? No, that was not my goal.
(15:52):
I I'm not going to say I did everything right when I started,
I actually had like a little I never talked about this, but
here we are. So I can't say I never talked
about it. I talked about it now I had a 12
episode run at my very first go up podcasting.
It was probably a few months after I listened to my first
podcast and it was just about WordPress.
I was speaking at WordPress conferences at points was about
WordPress. I had no vision, no goal, just
(16:13):
decided it sounded fun. I lasted 12 episodes and then
never went back to it, never looked back.
And I hope all that stuff is gone from the Internet.
No one can find it anywhere. But my second attempt was Fast
forward. Probably about a year and a half
later is when I was like, you know what, I think there is
merit to this podcasting thing. Yeah, sure.
I tried it. It.
I don't know what I even tried it for, right?
Like it was just honestly just curious, which that's not a
(16:35):
problem. But this next time I was like,
there's actually there's a good reason to do this.
And so my next podcast and probably will always be my most
successful podcast from like a numbers standpoint, I had a
show, it was called The Good Christian Podcast.
The tagline was we're not sayingwe're always good Christians,
but this is always a good podcast for Christians to listen
to. I.
Love that. That's really good.
You should still do that. That's a great idea.
(16:56):
Yeah, actually that podcast still exists.
There's different hosts now. It was part of a A blog and end
up moving all that to some new leadership and stuff like that.
And it took the whole thing further than I ever could.
So anyway, point being is when Istarted that show, I knew what I
could commit to, which was once a month.
I did 1 show a month. They're about 2015 to 20 minute
(17:18):
episodes the first Monday of every month.
But more importantly to that wasthe purpose behind it.
The purpose was to dive deeper into the word of God,
specifically Jesus life in a waythat would actually help
somebody move the needle forwardon one topic at each time.
And so it was just kind of like very singular focus.
It wasn't like, here's 30 thingsyou can do to be more like
Jesus. It was like, hey, here's one
thing you can do that's going tohelp you.
Here's how I applied to my life.Or if I had a guest on, I'd
(17:40):
interview them about it, kind oftheir experience with it.
And it was really good. It was really fruitful.
And I'm, I'm grateful that the people that now run that entire
whole giant company now, they'redoing a really great job with
that. It's a really cool thing to see.
But for me, getting it right started with me sitting down
saying, why am I actually doing this?
And when I realized Rob was, I had so many people in my life
(18:03):
that said they wanted to follow Jesus, but didn't actually know
what that looked like. And they were opening the Bible,
but they weren't fully understanding.
And it was my way of one, learning it myself better
because I was starting to teach it right?
Like it helps a lot to do that, but also giving them an
extension of like, hey, you justread this scripture.
Here's what this is really saying.
This is how you can apply it to your life.
This is an example that looked like for me now that I was
(18:25):
trying to be like the ultimate leader and guide the way.
I just want to be one step aheadof people and help them get up
to my level to pull them to where I was.
And that purpose of the podcast,I believe is what caused it to
do very, very well over for a four year period when I was
overseeing it. Yeah, man, that that's that
little, who knows what nugget, what thing you dropped in there.
(18:46):
Number one, you're serving God so that that can never go wrong.
And you're teaching right. So you're you you learn and grow
more by teaching than anything else.
But who knows who got little pieces of information out of
that that impacted their life, that changed their life, that
helped them to move forward. And I think you said something
really important there too, is that it wasn't necessarily
(19:06):
because sometimes we can, especially people, I always hear
this from people who are humble.They say, I don't want to brag,
but I, I don't want to seem likeI'm not, you know what I mean?
They if you're humble, if you'renot humble, you don't say stuff
like that. When you are humble, you think
like, oh, I don't want to seem like I'm the expert or I don't
want to tell people what to do because I don't want to come
(19:27):
across a certain way. It's like, no, you're called to
go do that. If you're really skilled at
something, you're really passionate about something #1 if
you don't know a lot about the thing but you're passionate
about it, then bring guests on who know a lot about it and you
can interview them. If you do know a lot about it,
then you can talk about it. You can still have guests on
too, but you should share that information.
I always think of the win wins. I guess it helps you grow.
(19:48):
You bring guests on, it helps lift them up.
Now you're exposed to each other's platforms and people are
listening. Everybody wins from it.
So why not approach it that way?But I'm curious too about the,
the faith end of it because I think often times when we are,
we feel like we're, we're guidedby God to go do things in our
(20:09):
life we want to. At least this is my experience.
I don't want to talk about it until I know I've got it right
because I don't want to steer anybody in the wrong direction.
And I take that much more seriously than if I came on here
and talked to leadership or, youknow, if I talked to radio, if I
talked to podcasting, I can justtalk about that and not worry as
much about what I'm saying because it's not as heavy in my
(20:32):
opinion. What about you, when you were on
there being a trying to be a good Christian, talking about
being a good Christian? Was there a certain weight to
that 'cause that that can be a real roadblock for people and
sharing? First off, just selfishly, this
feels good to hear you say that because for me, like the, the
most terrifying form of speakingthat I still don't really do is,
(20:53):
is speak at church. I mean, it's eternity versus
just like maybe a bad direction someone can change, right?
Like I'm like, it's terrifying. Like I feel like you're playing
with people's souls a little bit.
So like it can be scary. When I was doing the podcast, I,
I really, that one specifically,I was very big on reminding
people like I was a student myself, I was on the journey.
This is what I have figured out thus far.
(21:15):
And to this day, I still show upthat way in pretty much
everything I talk about, aside from maybe a few podcasting
things that are like, hey, there's no discussion here.
This is, you know, this is what you got to do, right?
But beyond that, just showing upin a way that was like, hey,
you're going on this journey with me.
I'm learning it myself. And I'll be real, sometimes I
got it wrong and sometimes I heard from listeners when I got
(21:35):
it wrong. And I actually just use that as
a teaching moment for myself. And so I, I, it would end up
always turning into great dialogue and sometimes even me
correcting something of, of my own saying, Hey, I actually
realized that I made a mistake here.
And so again, like, I don't wantto do that from stage at a
church. So that that terrifies me.
But on a podcast, again, being able to have that interaction is
great. The problem comes into play that
(21:57):
is if we and this is a trap thata lot of people fall into.
So I think this is key here for anyone who's like, oh, I'm going
to be a podcaster, I am a podcaster.
Don't fall in the trap that you need to be the person has all
the right answers all the time. I think that is so dangerous
when you let people feel that like you want to have this
persona that like, I'm the authority, I know it all and you
kind of you, you kind of like just work that into what you do.
(22:19):
You want people to feel like, ohman, this, this guy knows
everything, right? Like, no, you, you don't want to
be that guy. As a matter of fact, people
don't really resonate with that person as much as if we have in
the past now, right? Like we've got tools that now
know everything. We don't want a person that
knows everything. We want a person that's humbly
sharing their perspective and learning in real time while
we're learning as well, because it feels like a very human type
of situation to be in, whether it's just you listening to a
(22:42):
podcast, right? And so I encourage everybody,
like, think about that. You don't want to be the person
with all the answers. You don't need to sound like the
leading authority. You want to be the number one
student of your own podcast of your own topic.
And when people see that, they really grab onto it.
I think that that's something that can cause you to go much,
much further when it comes to engaging your audience.
(23:02):
It's a great point that that builds that relationship, that
builds that connection with people because they're like, oh,
this is just another person on ajourney learning about this
thing and growing. And that that in itself brings
people to you. That in itself creates that
connection that you're looking for, that that you want to have.
That's that's why we have friends in our lives, people we
(23:25):
look up to, even mentors even because mentors don't have it
all figured out. They're still learning, but they
might be ahead of you in the game, but you can learn from
them, but they're still growing and learning themselves.
And I think it's important to also say that out loud to tell
people that, to make that something that's known.
So we're gonna take a break realfast.
But when I come back, I just wanna, I wanna switch gears into
pod match 'cause I'm curious about where this is heading.
(23:48):
I love talking about vision. And you've built something that
a, a lot of people consider to be and including myself, like
the best platform for finding great guests, a, a great
community of, of, of podcasts for people who wanna grow
together. So before we go to the break,
how many people have been on Podmatch who have used that
platform for podcasting? Do you have a roundabout number?
(24:09):
Oh man, I this is not an exact number.
I'm sure I'm off by thousands, but I'm going to say 62,000.
I'll look at my, we're on break.I will look at my analytics
because I don't look at that very much.
I'll say 62,000 and I'll see howclose that was.
OK, The reason is I want to, I wanted to frame that because if
you don't know about podmatch, lots of people use it in
podcasting and I'm curious the vision you have to grow it to
(24:34):
where it is and then where you want to take it.
We'll talk about that in one minute when we come back.
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join us. Take care.
Alex loving this conversation, man, it's so good and just
jumping into pod match your vision at the beginning when you
when you put this thing togetherand in your vision now, how has
that changed over time? Real quick, I got to correct
myself on something I said previously.
I was way off my number. It's time of recording this
(26:21):
right now time we're live 77,378people.
So I was, I was a bit off, but Ireally, I've never been a
metrics guy. Now I'll go into answering your
question from day one, I was just not a metrics guy.
I came from a corporate background.
I did 15 years in big corporate KP is key performance
indicators. I live by them.
That was the blood that went through my veins, right.
(26:42):
So I just like I I was on the C-Suite of a multi billion
dollar publicly traded aerospacecompany where parts
manufacturer. So for me, charts, graphs,
numbers, it's all I looked at and I just knew that when I
became an entrepreneur, like I, I didn't want to slip back into
that because it can be dangerousand that business is good.
You probably need it. Airplanes need to stay in the
sky, right? They shouldn't fall out of the
(27:03):
sky. The people on them in my
business that I was like, you know what, I want to focus more
on the on the people. Podcasting is already about
conversation. It's already about bringing
people together. I want to stay focused on that
side. Now, yes, we do have analytics.
I do look at them on a scheduledbasis to make sure there's
nothing wrong, but I don't really dive into them like maybe
a lot of people do. And so when I get started, I
knew I wanted to be different. I wanted to build a human first
(27:25):
business and I think that's really unheard of in the
software space, but I knew that it was something that was
needed. So yes, I, I started to solve a
problem and I'll quickly share that problem.
Rob, basically Pod Match in a nutshell.
It's a service that connects podcast guests and podcast hosts
for interviews. The way I kind of describe is it
works similar to a dating app, although I've been near too long
to use a dating app, but it works similar to how you kind of
like swipe right, like on somebody you'd want to meet and
(27:47):
stuff like that, right? Works like that, but instead of
connecting for dates, a connection for podcast
interviews. So it brings a host and a guest
together. It's how Rob and I got connected
for this interview, actually hadour conversation on Pie Match
schedule it from right there andboom, here we are.
And so I knew that was a problemI wanted to solve how I wanted
to solve it. I just wanted to do something
different that I hadn't seen before.
And this type of software didn'texist at that point.
(28:08):
There was really not an option like this.
But I still knew like, OK, just because it's a different type of
software doesn't mean it needs to be run like all the rest.
And so from day one, my, my goalwas, can we help really build a
business that people feel like there's a culture behind that
anyone who joins it can tell like this is different.
And still to this day, man, likewe, we hear every day we get
(28:29):
emails to win. Like there's something really
different how you guys are doingthings like the fact that like
people were like, how am I talking to the founder of this
company? Like that makes no sense.
Like, aren't you guys huge? Yes, but we've built everything
around being able to communicatewell.
So yes, the vision has changed alittle bit since we started for
sure, Rob. But in all, it's the same
mission we're after. And the way that we're
accomplishing it is still the same with a human first mindset
(28:51):
and involved in the entire process from starting to finish.
I love that and you know, it shows up too because I've I've
out of my 200 and like, I think your episode 281 I'd probably
have had, I'm going to say closeto 80 pod match guests at this
point probably. I would think it's somewhere
along that line. I've met some of the best
(29:12):
people. Like I've met people that I
still talk to off the podcast. You know, this is all virtual.
We communicate online like on a semi regular basis because I've
made like real connections and met amazing humans.
And I think that it goes to it speaks to the platform itself
because you can feel the, the humanness of it.
And when I have conversations with people, I'm like these,
(29:33):
they're not on here just sellingthings that say sometimes that
happens. I'm saying that doesn't always
happen, but rarely, rarely. Usually it is like people who
really want to share their storyand they they're looking for
that, that human connection. And I think that's that's
everything man, especially when you're doing it virtually
because I podcasting in person and I live in a semi small town
(29:56):
in the middle of Pennsylvania near Penn State University.
I'm not flying people in, I'm not flying out to do podcasts.
Maybe someday that becomes a reality.
That would be amazing. But right now virtually is the
way to do it. And it is been incredible the
connections and the relationships built just from
finding people on the platform. So, right, there's so many
(30:17):
podcasts out there. The numbers are very high, the
success rate's very low. But I'm, but I also believe too
small podcasts can create a big impact.
And I wanted to ask you that somebody who has a small
podcast, they don't intend on itever becoming this, this global
giant, but they still want to make a big impact with it.
How do they do that? What does that look like?
(30:38):
It, it starts first and foremostwith going back to your vision,
right? Like why are you doing this?
Who are you serving? Like you got, you got to know
that stuff before you get started.
But once you get started, you'vereally determined who this thing
is going to be for, who your show is going to be for.
You want to get really, really narrow.
You want to get really, really focused on that.
You want to only speak to that niche, that one vertical, just
that one little piece of what you talk about.
(31:00):
There was recently, Rob, a podcast that that a friend of
mine was producing and it was doing exceptionally well.
And I was like, this is your most popular show now.
What's it about? It is a dog specifically for
goldendoodle owners that want tolearn how to better groom their
Goldendoodle. Not anything other than that.
That's all I talk about is grooming your goldendoodle.
And I was like, wow, I'm like, what are the numbers again?
(31:20):
And they are like, unbelievable.I'm like, that is that's like 10
times the size of my podcast, you know, like how many?
Episodes could you have on that?Like how?
How far could that go? I don't know.
I've never listened to it. I don't have a Goldendoodle, so
I it didn't interest me. But here's the thing, that's
perfect. It didn't interest me.
Therefore there was none of thislike, huh, maybe I'm interested.
(31:42):
I didn't turn into a lurker. I can look at the title of this
show, read the description in under 10 seconds and decide,
Nope, not for me. But I'll tell you what, the same
of the opposite is true. A goldendoodle owner that feels
like their dog smells that all the time is probably like, thank
you, I need this subscribing now.
I'm going to listen first. I'm just going to jump straight
into subscribing because I know I need it.
They created the only podcast for that.
(32:05):
And so many of us, we don't wantto like quote UN quote, sell
ourselves short or make get too,too small of a, of a piece of
the pie. I don't think we live in a world
where that's a thing anymore. I mean, search engines already
connect us enough. Social media already connect us
enough now, like AI is connecting us even faster, even
closer, even more narrow niche. You're going to be found if
you're doing something and you're the only person doing it.
(32:27):
Everyone else in the world who'sinterested in it can easily find
you. And I'm not promising you big
numbers. What I am promising you is big
impact if you really, really stand for something.
And I think it takes a lot more courage to have a podcast that's
truly for somebody and for something and stands up for that
than to have a big broad podcast.
It's for everybody on the planetbecause it's a podcast for
humans, right? Like it's got to get really
(32:49):
specific. So I tell people from day one,
like what how you can know if it's having an impact.
Do you have anybody listening toa really, really specific
podcast? Example, my podcast these days,
Rob, is about podcasting. It's called podcasting made
simple. I think it's pretty clear what
it's about, right? Like that's the whole idea
behind it. It's not a big show and people
are always like, hey, do you want to grow up more?
I'm like, no, because there's not too many podcasters who'd be
interested in this. Like, what do you mean you don't
(33:10):
want to grow it? I'm like, no, no, I'm already
reaching the people that I know this is for.
It's it's a few 1000 people a week.
That is great. That is really good for me given
the size of my business, right? Like this is a good ratio.
I'm very, very happy with where it is right now.
And I know that it serves. I know it shows up because we
always stay on focus. I don't have episodes that are
about something else, right? We always keep it really narrow.
(33:31):
And yes, you repeat yourself a little bit, but there's one
thing I've learned is if it's important, you repeat it.
And I've learned that time and time again in business, like
when I'm hosting a meeting, I'vegot to repeat the important
stuff, like every time it comes up.
And so people are like, OK, I think I'm finally getting it
right. And so I think that really, if
you want to succeed in podcasting, you've got to have
something that you really stand for and put that on display for
(33:52):
everyone to see and everyone to know.
Yeah, great point. And you know what?
What are cliches? Something's a cliche because
it's been repeated a billion times.
And we think of cliches as a negative.
But actually it's like, no, if if something becomes a cliche,
it's because it's true. And it's been repeated over and
over again throughout history because it stands the test of
time. And that's a great point too,
(34:14):
because often times this will happen to me when I'm like, man,
I've already talked about this. I, I get annoyed with talking
about the same thing over and over again.
I'm thinking somebody else is getting annoyed by it, but no,
that's not true. Anything that you really want to
have stick, you need to hear it.I mean, psychology says like
even in advertising, you need tosee somebody or see an ad
(34:34):
between 6 and 20 times before iteven starts to like necessarily
resonate with you before it starts to stay with you and for
it to become like a habit, right?
That's habits start 90 to 120 days, six months, it might
become something that is pretty stable in your life a year until
it's like, man, this is, this isa new version of me.
I've, I've added this into my repertoire.
(34:55):
So thinking about that, it's like you need to hear the same
things over and over and over again.
I've had to remind myself of that many times.
And actually with this show, what I do is I build themes.
So I, I listen for themes that come up over and over and over
again. And then I, I have a list.
I can look at it right now in front of me while we're talking
'cause I jot them down as we're,we're, as I'm going through
episodes up to 92 themes that show up on a repeated basis on
(35:20):
the show. And so think about, and this is
the next direction I wanted to go in the monetization of
podcasts because I've, there's, there's many different ways to
monetize. Like right now I'm thinking, you
know, virtual conferences, you can turn it into a book.
There's, there's so many different things you can do with
it aside from just having the podcast, getting sponsors and
things like that. But I, I have the pro podcaster
(35:42):
Academy, right? So I've helped people launch
their platforms and a lot of thetimes out here, I don't want to
monetize it because it's going to take the fun out of it.
It's going to ruin it for me. What are your thoughts on
somebody who has a platform? Should they monetize it?
Should they not? What are the benefits?
What are the deterrents? What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah. I, I first and Forest think
there's like pillars of this. I kind of try to think of a
(36:05):
podcast monetization strategy like a business, like a brick
and mortar business monetizationstrategy.
The very first goal that you have when you start your
business is not to make $1,000,000.
The very first goal is to be able to keep the lights on, to
pay your staff to, to pay for all the administrative stuff,
right? And I think that in podcasting
we need to view it that way as well.
That like, no, no, we're, we're not trying to monetize to get
(36:25):
rich and famous, right? Like, or to, to, to make more
money than we're making in our day job right now.
Like if that is the goal right now, we're trying to say, hey,
I've got $87.00 a month in production cost.
How can I make $87.00 with this podcast?
And the reason I like people to start there is because that is
much more realistic than saying,how do I make $80,000 a year
with my show? Those are two very, very
(36:46):
different problems. But I'm telling you, if you
can't offset the $87.00 a month,you're not going to be able to
make $80,000 a year with your podcast.
We've got to get that perspective right first and
foremost. And that to me is that that
first pillar. And so there are many ways to do
that. Sure, ads are a great way.
Having a sponsor, having just a way to donate sometimes goes
extremely well, especially if you have like a purpose driven
type of podcast, again, really narrow and a niche.
(37:09):
There are people that probably feel that you are the only voice
that's speaking to them. Even if you're repeating
yourself, right? They're learning it.
They're not feeling it like it'srepetitive.
They're learning it. They'd probably love to give you
a little bit of money to help offset.
Those are some really great waysto do that.
If you are using Pod Match, we have what we call our Pod Value
Initiative. We literally pay podcast hosts
just for using Pod Match. Dude that blew me away.
The first time I got paid through pod match I was like why
(37:32):
are they sending me money? I didn't I didn't even pay
attention to know that was a thing.
So I started getting paid. I'm like what is this?
Man, I, I actually, that's my favorite type of response right
there versus where's my money, right?
Like, whoa, what is this? I like that.
And listen, no one's going to get rich using pod match.
It's just not going to happen, but it can lead to helping
offset your production costs. So I want to get that out of the
(37:52):
way. But I, I do think that my
favorite monetization strategy, I, I think works really well,
which is to find out what your listeners are struggling with.
This does two things for you. One, it tells you what content
you should repeat or what you should talk about when you're
talking to your listeners, finding out what are you
struggling with? You now know what your future
content looks like. Because if they're all saying,
hey, I'm really struggle, Rob. I'm really struggling with
(38:14):
understanding how to lead in my family.
I've got that, that the work situation down, but I'm trying
to come home and lead the same way.
How do I build that, that balance?
Like what, what's the differenceif everyone Rob talks to says
that same thing? He now knows I need an episode
about this, but also there's probably a product or service in
there. Is there a course?
Is there a mastermind? Is there some sort of book that
he could develop? They can they can offer to those
(38:36):
individuals. When you talk to people that
listen to people that you ultimately serve and you ask
them what is it that you are struggling with?
That is where opportunity exists.
Now talking to your listeners isit can be simple, can be
complex. The easiest way to do is if you
have a podcast, mention on the podcast, hey, I'd love the
opportunity to chat with you. Text me through my Google Voice
number, maybe not your real phone number, right?
Or like e-mail me or go to this website or however you want to.
(39:00):
And anyone who's engaging anywhere, engage back with them
saying, Hey, do you have a few minutes?
I'd love to chat with you, get on a virtual call and just see
what it is that they're struggling with.
Ask them that question. Now, this is a long kind of like
a, a longer solution, right? It doesn't happen overnight.
But also keep it simple. If people want to start meeting
with other people and they want to pay $100 a month for it,
(39:20):
don't go try to create the next zoom.
You zoom right? You slack.
If they just want to chat room together paying a few dollars a
month for it, then then yes, usesomething that exists already.
You want to offer the fastest possible solution to the simple
problem that you hear people struggling with.
And I'm telling you that in my mind is like the best way to
monetize. And Rob, I think you've modeled
that really well. Like I, I listen, I'm a podcast.
(39:42):
I, I listen to your show. And as a listener, I know that
the things that you offer with this show are very well aligned
to the people that are, are listening to it.
You've either talked to them or you've done this long enough.
Somehow you figure that out. But that's the key, more than
I'd say anything else. Well, for me, it's just like,
this is what I care about. These are the places where I've
struggled, so I need to. I mean, it's, it's as simple as
(40:05):
what's your, what's your lane? What's your, you know, who's
your audience, What's me? It's like the older version of
me. That's how I've always kind of
looked at my businesses like whowas I5 or 10 years ago?
What would I have needed to get where I am and then speak
towards those things? And so I have, there's so many
different ideas that I could implement that I will at some
point in time. But it's like, that's how I've
(40:26):
always kind of pictured. How do I decide?
Because that's one of my hardestthings, like making a decision.
Then just like executing on, it's like, well, I can decide
when I know this was something that I struggled with.
I got through it. It's make your mess, your
message, turn your baggage into luggage.
I talk about it all the time because we when you get through
a thing now you can help other people with it.
Where, where else? So you have a higher level of
(40:48):
expertise and something you struggled in a lot and then got
through. You'd like know that thing
really, really well because you spent time struggling in it and
getting through it. And so that to me is like, it
just kind of, it's common sense.Like that's where the direction
you should head in. So we're coming to the end of
this. I did want to ask one more
question when it regards faith, spiritual principles.
(41:10):
What spiritual principles influence how you run your
business? How you run this platform?
It's actually one of my, my personal core values, which is
to love 1st. And it might be obvious to
anyone who's following Jesus or reads the Bible or anything like
that, but like Jesus's goal was to love 1st and to, to, not to
to be served, but to serve. And those two things for me go
(41:33):
really hand in hand. And I'll just quickly share this
story. When I first started Pod match,
the first three years, I got this really wrong.
I was so focused on serving people that I actually forgot to
love them. And when I was serving and you
serve too much, it causes stress, it causes anxiety.
And I was like, I got to serve these people better.
People are still like quitting podcasting.
It was weight that I didn't needto put on my shoulders.
I was putting it there because so focused on serving.
(41:53):
One day my wife walks into my office.
I'm stressed beyond belief. So I'm like, what are you?
What are you doing in here? You know, like I didn't even
ask, but she just like walks in.But like, I'm like, I'm busy.
And by the way, she's a Co founder in Podmatch and she's a
lot smarter than I am. So a lot of the the
congratulations of our success goes to her.
But she walked in, she goes, youknow, Alex, like you're always
focused on serving people. She goes.
But sometimes it's important to remember that the most important
(42:14):
thing is actually loving them first.
And man, I like, still makes me like want to cry thinking about
it, but like, I, I was like, OK,cool, thank you.
I try to play it cool, but then next thing I'm singing in the
corner and like remember, like legitimately just sitting there
crying, like remembering I was like, man, she's so right.
I focused on too much on my, on my performance and how I was
(42:36):
serving, looking at again, metrics like that, that mindset,
firstly, just remembering the end of the day.
I might get to talk to five or six of these people, but I got
to show them some love. I got to be able to love them.
And so at the the core of what we do, it's a reminder that we
first and foremost, we love people like Jesus, not for what
they do, not for who they are ornot for what they do, but for
who they are. There's simply another created
(42:56):
being that we just want to do our best to brighten their day
however we can. And we're going to let that
shine through that way that we run our software in a really
human way. And that's a key core value of
what we have. It stands out.
Man. When I got that first PayPal
payment, I was like, wow, this platform actually cares about
me. This is weird.
Why? Why are they paying me?
(43:17):
What's happening here? That was like, that is so
foreign that I thought somethingwas wrong.
I was like, they screwed up. Why are they sending me money?
So it's like that and that's shocking to people, but like in
the best way possible because itis the best surprise like this,
this platform actually cares about me.
Like, why would I ever leave a platform that's actually like, I
(43:38):
pay them. It's all, it's all reciprocal.
I pay them, they pay me. I mean, incredible people.
They bring more people to the platform.
It's just like, what? What a great model, man.
That that's the kind of model that that lasts and and makes an
impact. It loves people.
Yeah. I want to encourage everybody as
we're wrapping this thing up to make sure you go to
podmatch.com/free. If you've never checked out
(44:00):
Podmatch for yourself, what can I expect when they go to that
link? Yeah, thank you for for
mentioning that. podmatch.com/free will just give
you 9 ideas for being a podcast guest or being a podcast host.
And if you're already one, there's some ideas there as well
that will help you if you're kind of just wanted to further
your journey. But if you're brand new, it's a
great place to start as well. So it's podmatch.com/free 9
quick ideas I think would be really helpful.
(44:20):
And it doesn't ask for your e-mail address or anything like
that. Just again, a way to serve, a
way to help. And I hope it really is
meaningful for everybody. Very cool.
The question I'd love to ask Alex before we sign off, say we
never talk again, Say anybody watching or listening never
hears from you again. And you wanted to leave a
lasting message for them in their life.
What would that message be? It'd be to to view the word
(44:40):
Focus as an acronym. So the word focus acronym, which
stands for Follow one course until successful, Follow One
course until successful. I think one of the biggest
issues that that we face in the world today and in business and
in life is this idea of chronic inconsistency.
We don't remain consistent. We don't remain the course long
enough to actually see things happen.
(45:01):
And I believe it's just maybe the world we live in where we
see so many highlights that we feel like things should happen
quick. They should have been fast.
There should be no friction involved.
But the reality is there's goingto be friction.
There's going to be some pain because if there wasn't,
everyone would already be doing exactly what you're thinking
about doing. So instead of giving into that,
follow one course until successful.
Stay focused longer than you think you should.
And I believe that you're going to come the other side with a
(45:23):
reward that no one else is able to achieve.
I love that man. Like I said, I'm always looking
for themes. There's the theme focus.
Follow one course until successful.
That is so good. Thank you for your time.
Thank you for doing what you do.Thank you for being a brother in
Christ. I appreciate that, Alex, and I
appreciate you being on the showtoday.
Another true testimony of breakthrough.
Until next time. This has been the unstuck
(45:44):
movement.
Welcome back to the Unstuck movement.
I am your host Rob Z. These are true testimonies of
breakthrough. Today we have the incredible the
founder of Podmatch with us, Alex Sanfilippo on the podcast.
Did I say your last name Right? You sure did, aw.
Man, yes, this is something I'lldo is I'll rehearse the last
name. Then when I asked to say it
live, I'm like, did I get it right or not?
(00:45):
And I did. Really rare, but you did.
So congratulations. That's that's an early win for
this episode. All right, we're starting off
with some fire. Awesome, man.
So I'd love to jump in right offthe bat with a powerful question
we're going to talk today, podcast growth and how that
leads to personal development inyour life, faith and leadership,
resilience, the entrepreneur journey and being a server and a
(01:06):
storyteller. And as the title of this episode
goes, I, I love this topic of how podcasting can be this
incredible tool for personal growth, for leadership.
And it's something that doesn't get talked about enough.
So for somebody who's the founder of one of the biggest
podcast platforms in the world, Alex, I want to know for you,
how has podcasting helped you grow personally, helped you grow
(01:28):
as a leader? Listen, as you said, Rob, this
is a question doesn't get talkedabout enough.
So I'm, I'm really excited to jump into this.
I'm just going to go into some of my back story because it
really kind of leads to how personal growth can happen
through podcasting. I'm going to go back to my
childhood. I'll make this pretty brief
everybody, but I, I do want to share.
When I was a kid, I was actuallydyslexic and I really struggled
(01:48):
to learn to read into, to write.And as a result, I also had
trouble speaking. Like it just didn't come natural
to me. And I end up being a pretty
quiet kid for the most part, even though like I now today
would tell you I'm like a big time extrovert.
I love being around people. I talk really fast, really loud
and but that just wasn't my reality back then.
And, and listen, I'm just going to like I'm, I'm a follower of
(02:10):
Jesus and I am thankful that like I was, I was healed from
that. Those scars remain for a long
time and throughout school I really struggle specifically in
English and anything that had todo with speaking were like big
struggle points for me now. So I was a quiet kid, dyslexic
for a bit, right? Like really struggle.
But I realized that there were so many things in my head when I
became an adult and I started leading teams in, in
(02:31):
organizations and, and actually doing a little bit of speaking
that I didn't really know what Ithought I knew.
And, and what I mean by that is there was things in my head,
they were incomplete thoughts that when I started to try to
speak them, I realized I don't actually know this very well.
I've got an incomplete thought in my head.
Like it, it's kind of there. I can probably get you a 90%,
(02:52):
but who knows? When you're teaching somebody
or, or, or talking to a group ofpeople and you can only get 90%
of the information out, that last 10% is critical for someone
else to connect the dots, including ourselves as, as
speakers often. And so I, I really, I struggled
with that. So I was like, man, you know, I
was already kind of quiet as a kid.
Like I just need to make sure I only talk about exactly what I
know, right? Like I, I can't stretch out out
(03:13):
of this. I can't, can't seem to
articulate my thoughts very well.
And then one day I, I found podcast guesting of all things.
So like, I, I found podcasting through listening.
Like, I think most of us startedoff that way, right?
Like I didn't just like discoverit before I listened to a show,
but I really, really liked the conversational flow.
And So what do you know, I startgoing on podcast, I had a story
(03:33):
that was interesting to people and, and some things I'd
overcome some things I've been through and I started learning
to actually fully 100% articulate things that I thought
I only kind of knew. It turns out like communicating
them led me to the personal development that I needed to
learn to articulate an entire thought really well.
Now, again, going back to my childhood, these are probably
(03:54):
scars that just kind of followedme all the way through.
I just didn't develop the way that most people would, but this
kind of completed that path for me.
And so now here I was like goingon shows and realizing that I'm
actually growing by being on shows.
My ability to communicate, my ability to tell a story, my
ability to engage people and help other people actually level
up their in their own way through what I'm sharing was
(04:14):
actually taking place. And for me, now I look back,
it's like podcasting is like a, like one of the primary growth
tools in my life, both as a guest and as a host these days.
But I'll tell you what, like I, I don't think there's anything
to help me move the needle faster or or further than
podcasting. That is such a good point.
The point of when we have an idea in our head, we think it's
(04:39):
fully fleshed out, right? This, this happens so often.
Like, oh, that's a great idea. And you carry it around and
until you try to say it out loudand articulate it, you're like,
hold on a second. There's all these gaps and holes
in it because your brain kind oflike pieces things together
without you being fully finishedwith it.
And until you start talking about it, you're like, oh, man,
(04:59):
I, I thought I really knew this thing.
But now I can't actually get thewords that are in my head out of
my mouth. The thoughts that are in here, I
can't get them out. And similar to you, I was not
dyslexic growing up, but I was very shy, very introverted.
Really, the way I would describeit is I like had a version of me
inside that I didn't know how toget out.
And I, and I unknowingly got into radio broadcasting at 15
(05:23):
years old 'cause I, I had to figure this out, but I didn't
know God led me through it. I mean, I didn't necessarily
know God back then, but I, I, I,that's what was going on because
over the course of a 20 year career, I learned how to
articulate, I learned how to be myself.
I learned how to like come out of my shell.
And I think for so many people, especially, especially today,
(05:45):
because there's, there's less communication now in this form.
Like there's more communication online, texting, whatever it
might be, but there's less like really sitting down and talking
through things and articulating what you think, what you feel,
why you feel that way. And it's ironic, we're having
this conversation right now withCharlie Kirk passing away
recently. I, I think about like that guy
(06:05):
challenged a lot of people to really articulate their thoughts
because he did 'cause he fully talked about what he believed.
And the more you talk about whatyou believe, the more you find
holes in it and the more you find the, the truth and the
reality and what you're saying. And there's so much power in
that. That's why I always encourage
people, man, let alone a podcastis great for your, your personal
(06:29):
brand, for your business, for marketing, whatever.
But it helps you grow as a humanbeing.
It helps you actually listen to people and pay attention because
that is how we're actually goingto make real connections with
other people and for yourself. I'm curious on that end to the
act of listening, being able to listen and really connect with
(06:49):
others. How was that impacted through
guesting on podcasts? So listening, this is a good
follow up to this. I like that you you took it
here. Listening kind of came more
natural to me because again, going back to my childhood, like
I, I listened a lot, I was quieta lot.
And so I feel that maybe I had amore natural disposition to
listen. I'm not saying I've always like
(07:11):
listened and articulated and being able to like again, return
with a, a great conversation. But I'll tell you what, being
able to listen and understand goes a really, really long way.
So like, to me, even active listening is great, but I'm
actively listening with intent to understand what is being said
to me, which requires a kind of get out of her own shell a
little bit. Because I think that so many of
(07:32):
us when we're listening, we're not actually listening.
We're waiting for our chance to respond.
There's something we heard Rob and we're like, oh, I want to, I
want to comment on that. OK, Rob is going to keep on
talking. OK, He's almost done.
He's almost done. OK, Now I want to go back to
that, Right? I, I, I hear that so, so often.
And I actually think it's, it's really sad.
It's a missed opportunity to keep a conversation going in a
really healthy direction. And so for me, like listening,
(07:53):
I've I've learned, it's just that's how I learned to
communicate well. It starts with me first
listening and not using this newer developed skill of
actually being able to communicate and speak and
present well, but instead stepping back, letting go a
little bit and just following the flow of where it goes and
and listen. I'll tell you what all this you
talk about coming out of your shell, like learning to listen
is coming out of the shell for alot of people.
(08:14):
And I think to a previous episode, your show Rob was very
good. You had Bethany Stone on the
podcast. And forgive me if I get the date
wrong, but I want to call it outjust case anyone wants to go
back and check it out with September 5th, 2025.
It was the power of perspective is what you were talking about.
And something Bethany said is that growing is uncomfortable.
Growing takes intentional effort.
And I think for all of us, you're like, OK, I want to learn
(08:35):
to communicate better. I want to learn to listen
better. I want to learn to talk better.
Either side of that, whichever one's more your struggle or
perhaps both, which might be most of us, it's going to be
uncomfortable. It's going to require that you
sit quieter when you're listening to someone longer than
you want or that you share a little bit deeper than you think
that you want to or that you're willing to put yourself out
there even though you might like, I might not have a
complete thought, but I'm going to try it.
(08:56):
That stuff goes a really long way.
And it's, it's a 2 sided coin. You can't be, there's some
people that like are, are publicspeakers that don't know how to
listen. I'm like, OK, well, you're not a
great communicator. You're good at talking, right?
But a good communicator also understands the primary
objective of that is actually tolearn to listen really well and
then respond in a way that actually helps move the needle
forward. Yeah, man, it's, I hate to say a
(09:18):
lost art form, but I think it, it, I don't, I don't think it's
the right way to put it. I think it's just like we have
not put emphasis on it. And I, I, I mean, we're all
guilty of this. I still do it at times where I
can't wait to say something. I can't wait to, oh, I have a
good thing to say here and learning like it doesn't matter
that I have this thing to say, right?
(09:39):
And if it, if it's really that good, I'm going to remember it.
It's going to come back up. And, and, but I think so often
we feel like if I don't say thisnow, I just, I'm working with a
guy right now who runs a business, definitely has ADHD
and he's trying to balance out with him and his secretary
because he's allowed to step in on her at any point in time and,
(10:00):
and give her information when she's not prepared, but she's
not allowed to do it to him, right?
And I was like, you hate when that happens.
He was like, yeah, I hate when she does that.
I'm like, but you do it to her. And he's like, yeah, but I run
the business and I'm like, but it doesn't matter.
You're, you're, you're teaching her.
If she's modeling you right, youdo it to her, she's going to do
it to you. And you, it's also a practice
(10:22):
and self-control. I think that's the biggest part
here. Number one, you can practice
your memory by remembering the thing.
But the self-control and this it's, it's, it's, it's this
inflated self importance. So we think we, I have to say
this thing right now because everybody needs to hear it
because what I have to say is soimportant or it's, I'm going to
forget it. I need to say it so I don't
forget it. Both of those create bad
(10:44):
communication. They they they both destroy like
an active listening process. So I love that it's so good
before we go any further, I justwant to welcome everybody here.
This podcast, the unstuck movement created because I want
to find breakthrough. We've all been stuck at many
different places in our lives. We need to find breakthrough in
our lives. So I bring people on the show
who have found incredible breakthrough so that we can find
(11:05):
that for ourselves. Use these episodes as an
example. We're sponsored by the Connected
Leaders Academy. Make sure you check out
Connected leadersacademy.com. Over 500 heart centered
entrepreneurs from all over the world helping each other grow
and also the Pro Podcaster Academy.
So if you're somebody who wants to launch a podcast, you're not
sure how to do it, I'd love to walk you through that process to
make you the go to authority in your field, make a lasting
(11:27):
impact in people's lives, and also create incredible personal
and professional connections. And if you have a podcast, how
do you streamline it, make it easy to execute?
How do you monetize it and make it a real functional part of
your business? I would love to help you with
that at robzwentz.com. Alex Sanfilippa with us on the
show today. Turn setbacks in the stepping
(11:48):
stones Building 1 of podcasting's most
impactfulplatformspodmatch.com. His story inspires anyone
seeking to blend passion, service and purpose into their
entrepreneurial journey. And just kind of continuing on
with what we've been talking about, Let's talk about the
other end of podcasting because I the statistics now there's
(12:12):
well over, I think like 4 million podcasts, but you know,
like 90% of those podcasts nevermake it past 10 episodes.
None really get off the ground or go anywhere.
What would you say, because you,I'm sure you've talked to and
worked with thousands of people who have podcasts want to start
them. What would you say is one of the
most overlooked mistakes that podcasters make when they're
(12:33):
starting out trying to get off the ground?
The the very first mistake that's made is is pretty much
universally the the same thing. And it's it's false
expectations. And the expectation we'll have
is I'm going to become the next insert famous person's name
because I have a podcast, right?And and the reality is that
person's podcast is big because they have that name typically
(12:54):
before they had their podcast. And so because the most common
name in podcasting is Joe Rogan.I don't mean to like inflate his
numbers again, right? But like everyone's like, how
can I become the next Joe Rogan?I'm like, well, first you need
to have 30 years history in TV. Like I remember watching on TV
when I was a kid, like Fear Factor when I grew up watching,
I loved it, right? So go ahead and start there,
right? Like, and if you're already over
(13:14):
the age of 30 or however old he was when he started that, like
you're probably too late to build up that that type of
legacy becoming like an A list celebrity.
I was like, so you're out, right?
Like, but the reality is some ofus, we just see these big
numbers. We see the top, it's actually
the top 001 percent, .001%. And we look at that and say, I'm
going to be just like that. I mean, it doesn't happen in
(13:36):
three weeks, six weeks, 8 weeks,whatever might be.
We're like, OK, well this podcasting thing just doesn't
work. And the reality is it's unmet
expectations that I just call false expectations.
You didn't actually sit down to think about why am I actually
doing this? What is the purpose behind it?
Now, if the purpose is to get rich and famous, I'll just stop
you right there. It's, it's, I'm not trying to be
rude or mean or like a negative by any means, but that's just
(13:58):
not the reality. What happens?
There are much easier ways to become rich and famous.
I don't suggest it. You need to have a real purpose,
something that goes into your core, into your heart that says
This is why I'm doing this in the 1st place.
If you want to actually make it,that's the number one reason
people stop. Yeah, I would say too, if you're
going anything is to become richand famous, you need to re
prioritize your goals because rich and famous is should be the
(14:20):
outcome. That's an effect of why you're
doing something. And I in coaching in general
with podcast coaching or workingwith businesses, I mean, or just
any, anything in our life, like what is the vision for what
you're doing? Who are you serving?
And really boil it down to like,this is something that even if I
don't see the rich and famous part for 20 years, doesn't
(14:42):
matter because I love doing it so much.
I have such a desire to do it because I know that I'm growing.
I know I'm helping other people growing.
How many wins can you create by doing what you're doing and make
a difference, right? Because before we started, we
mentioned I always and I always think of this and especially
whenever I lose sight of why I'mdoing what I'm doing.
If one person hears 1 little thing that I talked about or
(15:05):
somebody else talked about at myshow and that makes an impact on
them, that gives them an idea that makes them a better person,
makes them a better, you know, member of their family, helps
them to serve better in their community, whatever it is like
that's the real goal. And if you keep it that simple,
then that's going to build on itself and you're going to see
that compound interest from thatand that that growth is going to
(15:29):
continue to add up. So for you, what sparked you to,
to, I mean, obviously the dyslexia getting past that God
helped you to, to, to grow through that.
But when it came to podcasting, what was it initially like that
made you dive into it? Did you, did you come into it
thinking you were going to be rich and famous?
What was the goal? No, that was not my goal.
(15:52):
I I'm not going to say I did everything right when I started,
I actually had like a little I never talked about this, but
here we are. So I can't say I never talked
about it. I talked about it now I had a 12
episode run at my very first go up podcasting.
It was probably a few months after I listened to my first
podcast and it was just about WordPress.
I was speaking at WordPress conferences at points was about
WordPress. I had no vision, no goal, just
(16:13):
decided it sounded fun. I lasted 12 episodes and then
never went back to it, never looked back.
And I hope all that stuff is gone from the Internet.
No one can find it anywhere. But my second attempt was Fast
forward. Probably about a year and a half
later is when I was like, you know what, I think there is
merit to this podcasting thing. Yeah, sure.
I tried it. It.
I don't know what I even tried it for, right?
Like it was just honestly just curious, which that's not a
(16:35):
problem. But this next time I was like,
there's actually there's a good reason to do this.
And so my next podcast and probably will always be my most
successful podcast from like a numbers standpoint, I had a
show, it was called The Good Christian Podcast.
The tagline was we're not sayingwe're always good Christians,
but this is always a good podcast for Christians to listen
to. I.
Love that. That's really good.
You should still do that. That's a great idea.
(16:56):
Yeah, actually that podcast still exists.
There's different hosts now. It was part of a A blog and end
up moving all that to some new leadership and stuff like that.
And it took the whole thing further than I ever could.
So anyway, point being is when Istarted that show, I knew what I
could commit to, which was once a month.
I did 1 show a month. They're about 2015 to 20 minute
(17:18):
episodes the first Monday of every month.
But more importantly to that wasthe purpose behind it.
The purpose was to dive deeper into the word of God,
specifically Jesus life in a waythat would actually help
somebody move the needle forwardon one topic at each time.
And so it was just kind of like very singular focus.
It wasn't like, here's 30 thingsyou can do to be more like
Jesus. It was like, hey, here's one
thing you can do that's going tohelp you.
Here's how I applied to my life.Or if I had a guest on, I'd
(17:40):
interview them about it, kind oftheir experience with it.
And it was really good. It was really fruitful.
And I'm, I'm grateful that the people that now run that entire
whole giant company now, they'redoing a really great job with
that. It's a really cool thing to see.
But for me, getting it right started with me sitting down
saying, why am I actually doing this?
And when I realized Rob was, I had so many people in my life
(18:03):
that said they wanted to follow Jesus, but didn't actually know
what that looked like. And they were opening the Bible,
but they weren't fully understanding.
And it was my way of one, learning it myself better
because I was starting to teach it right?
Like it helps a lot to do that, but also giving them an
extension of like, hey, you justread this scripture.
Here's what this is really saying.
This is how you can apply it to your life.
This is an example that looked like for me now that I was
(18:25):
trying to be like the ultimate leader and guide the way.
I just want to be one step aheadof people and help them get up
to my level to pull them to where I was.
And that purpose of the podcast,I believe is what caused it to
do very, very well over for a four year period when I was
overseeing it. Yeah, man, that that's that
little, who knows what nugget, what thing you dropped in there.
(18:46):
Number one, you're serving God so that that can never go wrong.
And you're teaching right. So you're you you learn and grow
more by teaching than anything else.
But who knows who got little pieces of information out of
that that impacted their life, that changed their life, that
helped them to move forward. And I think you said something
really important there too, is that it wasn't necessarily
(19:06):
because sometimes we can, especially people, I always hear
this from people who are humble.They say, I don't want to brag,
but I, I don't want to seem likeI'm not, you know what I mean?
They if you're humble, if you'renot humble, you don't say stuff
like that. When you are humble, you think
like, oh, I don't want to seem like I'm the expert or I don't
want to tell people what to do because I don't want to come
(19:27):
across a certain way. It's like, no, you're called to
go do that. If you're really skilled at
something, you're really passionate about something #1 if
you don't know a lot about the thing but you're passionate
about it, then bring guests on who know a lot about it and you
can interview them. If you do know a lot about it,
then you can talk about it. You can still have guests on
too, but you should share that information.
I always think of the win wins. I guess it helps you grow.
(19:48):
You bring guests on, it helps lift them up.
Now you're exposed to each other's platforms and people are
listening. Everybody wins from it.
So why not approach it that way?But I'm curious too about the,
the faith end of it because I think often times when we are,
we feel like we're, we're guidedby God to go do things in our
(20:09):
life we want to. At least this is my experience.
I don't want to talk about it until I know I've got it right
because I don't want to steer anybody in the wrong direction.
And I take that much more seriously than if I came on here
and talked to leadership or, youknow, if I talked to radio, if I
talked to podcasting, I can justtalk about that and not worry as
much about what I'm saying because it's not as heavy in my
(20:32):
opinion. What about you, when you were on
there being a trying to be a good Christian, talking about
being a good Christian? Was there a certain weight to
that 'cause that that can be a real roadblock for people and
sharing? First off, just selfishly, this
feels good to hear you say that because for me, like the, the
most terrifying form of speakingthat I still don't really do is,
(20:53):
is speak at church. I mean, it's eternity versus
just like maybe a bad direction someone can change, right?
Like I'm like, it's terrifying. Like I feel like you're playing
with people's souls a little bit.
So like it can be scary. When I was doing the podcast, I,
I really, that one specifically,I was very big on reminding
people like I was a student myself, I was on the journey.
This is what I have figured out thus far.
(21:15):
And to this day, I still show upthat way in pretty much
everything I talk about, aside from maybe a few podcasting
things that are like, hey, there's no discussion here.
This is, you know, this is what you got to do, right?
But beyond that, just showing upin a way that was like, hey,
you're going on this journey with me.
I'm learning it myself. And I'll be real, sometimes I
got it wrong and sometimes I heard from listeners when I got
(21:35):
it wrong. And I actually just use that as
a teaching moment for myself. And so I, I, it would end up
always turning into great dialogue and sometimes even me
correcting something of, of my own saying, Hey, I actually
realized that I made a mistake here.
And so again, like, I don't wantto do that from stage at a
church. So that that terrifies me.
But on a podcast, again, being able to have that interaction is
great. The problem comes into play that
(21:57):
is if we and this is a trap thata lot of people fall into.
So I think this is key here for anyone who's like, oh, I'm going
to be a podcaster, I am a podcaster.
Don't fall in the trap that you need to be the person has all
the right answers all the time. I think that is so dangerous
when you let people feel that like you want to have this
persona that like, I'm the authority, I know it all and you
kind of you, you kind of like just work that into what you do.
(22:19):
You want people to feel like, ohman, this, this guy knows
everything, right? Like, no, you, you don't want to
be that guy. As a matter of fact, people
don't really resonate with that person as much as if we have in
the past now, right? Like we've got tools that now
know everything. We don't want a person that
knows everything. We want a person that's humbly
sharing their perspective and learning in real time while
we're learning as well, because it feels like a very human type
of situation to be in, whether it's just you listening to a
(22:42):
podcast, right? And so I encourage everybody,
like, think about that. You don't want to be the person
with all the answers. You don't need to sound like the
leading authority. You want to be the number one
student of your own podcast of your own topic.
And when people see that, they really grab onto it.
I think that that's something that can cause you to go much,
much further when it comes to engaging your audience.
(23:02):
It's a great point that that builds that relationship, that
builds that connection with people because they're like, oh,
this is just another person on ajourney learning about this
thing and growing. And that that in itself brings
people to you. That in itself creates that
connection that you're looking for, that that you want to have.
That's that's why we have friends in our lives, people we
(23:25):
look up to, even mentors even because mentors don't have it
all figured out. They're still learning, but they
might be ahead of you in the game, but you can learn from
them, but they're still growing and learning themselves.
And I think it's important to also say that out loud to tell
people that, to make that something that's known.
So we're gonna take a break realfast.
But when I come back, I just wanna, I wanna switch gears into
pod match 'cause I'm curious about where this is heading.
(23:48):
I love talking about vision. And you've built something that
a, a lot of people consider to be and including myself, like
the best platform for finding great guests, a, a great
community of, of, of podcasts for people who wanna grow
together. So before we go to the break,
how many people have been on Podmatch who have used that
platform for podcasting? Do you have a roundabout number?
(24:09):
Oh man, I this is not an exact number.
I'm sure I'm off by thousands, but I'm going to say 62,000.
I'll look at my, we're on break.I will look at my analytics
because I don't look at that very much.
I'll say 62,000 and I'll see howclose that was.
OK, The reason is I want to, I wanted to frame that because if
you don't know about podmatch, lots of people use it in
podcasting and I'm curious the vision you have to grow it to
(24:34):
where it is and then where you want to take it.
We'll talk about that in one minute when we come back.
Are you struggling to make consistent valuable content for
yourself? Do you want to have an efficient
and effective way to create content that attracts the people
that you want to connect with inlife, the people you want to
build relationships with in business?
Do you want to be the go to authority at what you do, at
(24:54):
what you're great at? Would it be helpful for you if
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(25:16):
encourage you to check out the Pro Podcaster Academy.
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personally and professionally, scale your influence, develop
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(25:59):
join us. Take care.
Alex loving this conversation, man, it's so good and just
jumping into pod match your vision at the beginning when you
when you put this thing togetherand in your vision now, how has
that changed over time? Real quick, I got to correct
myself on something I said previously.
I was way off my number. It's time of recording this
(26:21):
right now time we're live 77,378people.
So I was, I was a bit off, but Ireally, I've never been a
metrics guy. Now I'll go into answering your
question from day one, I was just not a metrics guy.
I came from a corporate background.
I did 15 years in big corporate KP is key performance
indicators. I live by them.
That was the blood that went through my veins, right.
(26:42):
So I just like I I was on the C-Suite of a multi billion
dollar publicly traded aerospacecompany where parts
manufacturer. So for me, charts, graphs,
numbers, it's all I looked at and I just knew that when I
became an entrepreneur, like I, I didn't want to slip back into
that because it can be dangerousand that business is good.
You probably need it. Airplanes need to stay in the
sky, right? They shouldn't fall out of the
(27:03):
sky. The people on them in my
business that I was like, you know what, I want to focus more
on the on the people. Podcasting is already about
conversation. It's already about bringing
people together. I want to stay focused on that
side. Now, yes, we do have analytics.
I do look at them on a scheduledbasis to make sure there's
nothing wrong, but I don't really dive into them like maybe
a lot of people do. And so when I get started, I
knew I wanted to be different. I wanted to build a human first
(27:25):
business and I think that's really unheard of in the
software space, but I knew that it was something that was
needed. So yes, I, I started to solve a
problem and I'll quickly share that problem.
Rob, basically Pod Match in a nutshell.
It's a service that connects podcast guests and podcast hosts
for interviews. The way I kind of describe is it
works similar to a dating app, although I've been near too long
to use a dating app, but it works similar to how you kind of
like swipe right, like on somebody you'd want to meet and
(27:47):
stuff like that, right? Works like that, but instead of
connecting for dates, a connection for podcast
interviews. So it brings a host and a guest
together. It's how Rob and I got connected
for this interview, actually hadour conversation on Pie Match
schedule it from right there andboom, here we are.
And so I knew that was a problemI wanted to solve how I wanted
to solve it. I just wanted to do something
different that I hadn't seen before.
And this type of software didn'texist at that point.
(28:08):
There was really not an option like this.
But I still knew like, OK, just because it's a different type of
software doesn't mean it needs to be run like all the rest.
And so from day one, my, my goalwas, can we help really build a
business that people feel like there's a culture behind that
anyone who joins it can tell like this is different.
And still to this day, man, likewe, we hear every day we get
(28:29):
emails to win. Like there's something really
different how you guys are doingthings like the fact that like
people were like, how am I talking to the founder of this
company? Like that makes no sense.
Like, aren't you guys huge? Yes, but we've built everything
around being able to communicatewell.
So yes, the vision has changed alittle bit since we started for
sure, Rob. But in all, it's the same
mission we're after. And the way that we're
accomplishing it is still the same with a human first mindset
(28:51):
and involved in the entire process from starting to finish.
I love that and you know, it shows up too because I've I've
out of my 200 and like, I think your episode 281 I'd probably
have had, I'm going to say closeto 80 pod match guests at this
point probably. I would think it's somewhere
along that line. I've met some of the best
(29:12):
people. Like I've met people that I
still talk to off the podcast. You know, this is all virtual.
We communicate online like on a semi regular basis because I've
made like real connections and met amazing humans.
And I think that it goes to it speaks to the platform itself
because you can feel the, the humanness of it.
And when I have conversations with people, I'm like these,
(29:33):
they're not on here just sellingthings that say sometimes that
happens. I'm saying that doesn't always
happen, but rarely, rarely. Usually it is like people who
really want to share their storyand they they're looking for
that, that human connection. And I think that's that's
everything man, especially when you're doing it virtually
because I podcasting in person and I live in a semi small town
(29:56):
in the middle of Pennsylvania near Penn State University.
I'm not flying people in, I'm not flying out to do podcasts.
Maybe someday that becomes a reality.
That would be amazing. But right now virtually is the
way to do it. And it is been incredible the
connections and the relationships built just from
finding people on the platform. So, right, there's so many
(30:17):
podcasts out there. The numbers are very high, the
success rate's very low. But I'm, but I also believe too
small podcasts can create a big impact.
And I wanted to ask you that somebody who has a small
podcast, they don't intend on itever becoming this, this global
giant, but they still want to make a big impact with it.
How do they do that? What does that look like?
(30:38):
It, it starts first and foremostwith going back to your vision,
right? Like why are you doing this?
Who are you serving? Like you got, you got to know
that stuff before you get started.
But once you get started, you'vereally determined who this thing
is going to be for, who your show is going to be for.
You want to get really, really narrow.
You want to get really, really focused on that.
You want to only speak to that niche, that one vertical, just
that one little piece of what you talk about.
(31:00):
There was recently, Rob, a podcast that that a friend of
mine was producing and it was doing exceptionally well.
And I was like, this is your most popular show now.
What's it about? It is a dog specifically for
goldendoodle owners that want tolearn how to better groom their
Goldendoodle. Not anything other than that.
That's all I talk about is grooming your goldendoodle.
And I was like, wow, I'm like, what are the numbers again?
(31:20):
And they are like, unbelievable.I'm like, that is that's like 10
times the size of my podcast, you know, like how many?
Episodes could you have on that?Like how?
How far could that go? I don't know.
I've never listened to it. I don't have a Goldendoodle, so
I it didn't interest me. But here's the thing, that's
perfect. It didn't interest me.
Therefore there was none of thislike, huh, maybe I'm interested.
(31:42):
I didn't turn into a lurker. I can look at the title of this
show, read the description in under 10 seconds and decide,
Nope, not for me. But I'll tell you what, the same
of the opposite is true. A goldendoodle owner that feels
like their dog smells that all the time is probably like, thank
you, I need this subscribing now.
I'm going to listen first. I'm just going to jump straight
into subscribing because I know I need it.
They created the only podcast for that.
(32:05):
And so many of us, we don't wantto like quote UN quote, sell
ourselves short or make get too,too small of a, of a piece of
the pie. I don't think we live in a world
where that's a thing anymore. I mean, search engines already
connect us enough. Social media already connect us
enough now, like AI is connecting us even faster, even
closer, even more narrow niche. You're going to be found if
you're doing something and you're the only person doing it.
(32:27):
Everyone else in the world who'sinterested in it can easily find
you. And I'm not promising you big
numbers. What I am promising you is big
impact if you really, really stand for something.
And I think it takes a lot more courage to have a podcast that's
truly for somebody and for something and stands up for that
than to have a big broad podcast.
It's for everybody on the planetbecause it's a podcast for
humans, right? Like it's got to get really
(32:49):
specific. So I tell people from day one,
like what how you can know if it's having an impact.
Do you have anybody listening toa really, really specific
podcast? Example, my podcast these days,
Rob, is about podcasting. It's called podcasting made
simple. I think it's pretty clear what
it's about, right? Like that's the whole idea
behind it. It's not a big show and people
are always like, hey, do you want to grow up more?
I'm like, no, because there's not too many podcasters who'd be
interested in this. Like, what do you mean you don't
(33:10):
want to grow it? I'm like, no, no, I'm already
reaching the people that I know this is for.
It's it's a few 1000 people a week.
That is great. That is really good for me given
the size of my business, right? Like this is a good ratio.
I'm very, very happy with where it is right now.
And I know that it serves. I know it shows up because we
always stay on focus. I don't have episodes that are
about something else, right? We always keep it really narrow.
(33:31):
And yes, you repeat yourself a little bit, but there's one
thing I've learned is if it's important, you repeat it.
And I've learned that time and time again in business, like
when I'm hosting a meeting, I'vegot to repeat the important
stuff, like every time it comes up.
And so people are like, OK, I think I'm finally getting it
right. And so I think that really, if
you want to succeed in podcasting, you've got to have
something that you really stand for and put that on display for
(33:52):
everyone to see and everyone to know.
Yeah, great point. And you know what?
What are cliches? Something's a cliche because
it's been repeated a billion times.
And we think of cliches as a negative.
But actually it's like, no, if if something becomes a cliche,
it's because it's true. And it's been repeated over and
over again throughout history because it stands the test of
time. And that's a great point too,
(34:14):
because often times this will happen to me when I'm like, man,
I've already talked about this. I, I get annoyed with talking
about the same thing over and over again.
I'm thinking somebody else is getting annoyed by it, but no,
that's not true. Anything that you really want to
have stick, you need to hear it.I mean, psychology says like
even in advertising, you need tosee somebody or see an ad
(34:34):
between 6 and 20 times before iteven starts to like necessarily
resonate with you before it starts to stay with you and for
it to become like a habit, right?
That's habits start 90 to 120 days, six months, it might
become something that is pretty stable in your life a year until
it's like, man, this is, this isa new version of me.
I've, I've added this into my repertoire.
(34:55):
So thinking about that, it's like you need to hear the same
things over and over and over again.
I've had to remind myself of that many times.
And actually with this show, what I do is I build themes.
So I, I listen for themes that come up over and over and over
again. And then I, I have a list.
I can look at it right now in front of me while we're talking
'cause I jot them down as we're,we're, as I'm going through
episodes up to 92 themes that show up on a repeated basis on
(35:20):
the show. And so think about, and this is
the next direction I wanted to go in the monetization of
podcasts because I've, there's, there's many different ways to
monetize. Like right now I'm thinking, you
know, virtual conferences, you can turn it into a book.
There's, there's so many different things you can do with
it aside from just having the podcast, getting sponsors and
things like that. But I, I have the pro podcaster
(35:42):
Academy, right? So I've helped people launch
their platforms and a lot of thetimes out here, I don't want to
monetize it because it's going to take the fun out of it.
It's going to ruin it for me. What are your thoughts on
somebody who has a platform? Should they monetize it?
Should they not? What are the benefits?
What are the deterrents? What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah. I, I first and Forest think
there's like pillars of this. I kind of try to think of a
(36:05):
podcast monetization strategy like a business, like a brick
and mortar business monetizationstrategy.
The very first goal that you have when you start your
business is not to make $1,000,000.
The very first goal is to be able to keep the lights on, to
pay your staff to, to pay for all the administrative stuff,
right? And I think that in podcasting
we need to view it that way as well.
That like, no, no, we're, we're not trying to monetize to get
(36:25):
rich and famous, right? Like, or to, to, to make more
money than we're making in our day job right now.
Like if that is the goal right now, we're trying to say, hey,
I've got $87.00 a month in production cost.
How can I make $87.00 with this podcast?
And the reason I like people to start there is because that is
much more realistic than saying,how do I make $80,000 a year
with my show? Those are two very, very
(36:46):
different problems. But I'm telling you, if you
can't offset the $87.00 a month,you're not going to be able to
make $80,000 a year with your podcast.
We've got to get that perspective right first and
foremost. And that to me is that that
first pillar. And so there are many ways to do
that. Sure, ads are a great way.
Having a sponsor, having just a way to donate sometimes goes
extremely well, especially if you have like a purpose driven
type of podcast, again, really narrow and a niche.
(37:09):
There are people that probably feel that you are the only voice
that's speaking to them. Even if you're repeating
yourself, right? They're learning it.
They're not feeling it like it'srepetitive.
They're learning it. They'd probably love to give you
a little bit of money to help offset.
Those are some really great waysto do that.
If you are using Pod Match, we have what we call our Pod Value
Initiative. We literally pay podcast hosts
just for using Pod Match. Dude that blew me away.
The first time I got paid through pod match I was like why
(37:32):
are they sending me money? I didn't I didn't even pay
attention to know that was a thing.
So I started getting paid. I'm like what is this?
Man, I, I actually, that's my favorite type of response right
there versus where's my money, right?
Like, whoa, what is this? I like that.
And listen, no one's going to get rich using pod match.
It's just not going to happen, but it can lead to helping
offset your production costs. So I want to get that out of the
(37:52):
way. But I, I do think that my
favorite monetization strategy, I, I think works really well,
which is to find out what your listeners are struggling with.
This does two things for you. One, it tells you what content
you should repeat or what you should talk about when you're
talking to your listeners, finding out what are you
struggling with? You now know what your future
content looks like. Because if they're all saying,
hey, I'm really struggle, Rob. I'm really struggling with
(38:14):
understanding how to lead in my family.
I've got that, that the work situation down, but I'm trying
to come home and lead the same way.
How do I build that, that balance?
Like what, what's the differenceif everyone Rob talks to says
that same thing? He now knows I need an episode
about this, but also there's probably a product or service in
there. Is there a course?
Is there a mastermind? Is there some sort of book that
he could develop? They can they can offer to those
(38:36):
individuals. When you talk to people that
listen to people that you ultimately serve and you ask
them what is it that you are struggling with?
That is where opportunity exists.
Now talking to your listeners isit can be simple, can be
complex. The easiest way to do is if you
have a podcast, mention on the podcast, hey, I'd love the
opportunity to chat with you. Text me through my Google Voice
number, maybe not your real phone number, right?
Or like e-mail me or go to this website or however you want to.
(39:00):
And anyone who's engaging anywhere, engage back with them
saying, Hey, do you have a few minutes?
I'd love to chat with you, get on a virtual call and just see
what it is that they're struggling with.
Ask them that question. Now, this is a long kind of like
a, a longer solution, right? It doesn't happen overnight.
But also keep it simple. If people want to start meeting
with other people and they want to pay $100 a month for it,
(39:20):
don't go try to create the next zoom.
You zoom right? You slack.
If they just want to chat room together paying a few dollars a
month for it, then then yes, usesomething that exists already.
You want to offer the fastest possible solution to the simple
problem that you hear people struggling with.
And I'm telling you that in my mind is like the best way to
monetize. And Rob, I think you've modeled
that really well. Like I, I listen, I'm a podcast.
(39:42):
I, I listen to your show. And as a listener, I know that
the things that you offer with this show are very well aligned
to the people that are, are listening to it.
You've either talked to them or you've done this long enough.
Somehow you figure that out. But that's the key, more than
I'd say anything else. Well, for me, it's just like,
this is what I care about. These are the places where I've
struggled, so I need to. I mean, it's, it's as simple as
(40:05):
what's your, what's your lane? What's your, you know, who's
your audience, What's me? It's like the older version of
me. That's how I've always kind of
looked at my businesses like whowas I5 or 10 years ago?
What would I have needed to get where I am and then speak
towards those things? And so I have, there's so many
different ideas that I could implement that I will at some
point in time. But it's like, that's how I've
(40:26):
always kind of pictured. How do I decide?
Because that's one of my hardestthings, like making a decision.
Then just like executing on, it's like, well, I can decide
when I know this was something that I struggled with.
I got through it. It's make your mess, your
message, turn your baggage into luggage.
I talk about it all the time because we when you get through
a thing now you can help other people with it.
Where, where else? So you have a higher level of
(40:48):
expertise and something you struggled in a lot and then got
through. You'd like know that thing
really, really well because you spent time struggling in it and
getting through it. And so that to me is like, it
just kind of, it's common sense.Like that's where the direction
you should head in. So we're coming to the end of
this. I did want to ask one more
question when it regards faith, spiritual principles.
(41:10):
What spiritual principles influence how you run your
business? How you run this platform?
It's actually one of my, my personal core values, which is
to love 1st. And it might be obvious to
anyone who's following Jesus or reads the Bible or anything like
that, but like Jesus's goal was to love 1st and to, to, not to
to be served, but to serve. And those two things for me go
(41:33):
really hand in hand. And I'll just quickly share this
story. When I first started Pod match,
the first three years, I got this really wrong.
I was so focused on serving people that I actually forgot to
love them. And when I was serving and you
serve too much, it causes stress, it causes anxiety.
And I was like, I got to serve these people better.
People are still like quitting podcasting.
It was weight that I didn't needto put on my shoulders.
I was putting it there because so focused on serving.
(41:53):
One day my wife walks into my office.
I'm stressed beyond belief. So I'm like, what are you?
What are you doing in here? You know, like I didn't even
ask, but she just like walks in.But like, I'm like, I'm busy.
And by the way, she's a Co founder in Podmatch and she's a
lot smarter than I am. So a lot of the the
congratulations of our success goes to her.
But she walked in, she goes, youknow, Alex, like you're always
focused on serving people. She goes.
But sometimes it's important to remember that the most important
(42:14):
thing is actually loving them first.
And man, I like, still makes me like want to cry thinking about
it, but like, I, I was like, OK,cool, thank you.
I try to play it cool, but then next thing I'm singing in the
corner and like remember, like legitimately just sitting there
crying, like remembering I was like, man, she's so right.
I focused on too much on my, on my performance and how I was
(42:36):
serving, looking at again, metrics like that, that mindset,
firstly, just remembering the end of the day.
I might get to talk to five or six of these people, but I got
to show them some love. I got to be able to love them.
And so at the the core of what we do, it's a reminder that we
first and foremost, we love people like Jesus, not for what
they do, not for who they are ornot for what they do, but for
who they are. There's simply another created
(42:56):
being that we just want to do our best to brighten their day
however we can. And we're going to let that
shine through that way that we run our software in a really
human way. And that's a key core value of
what we have. It stands out.
Man. When I got that first PayPal
payment, I was like, wow, this platform actually cares about
me. This is weird.
Why? Why are they paying me?
(43:17):
What's happening here? That was like, that is so
foreign that I thought somethingwas wrong.
I was like, they screwed up. Why are they sending me money?
So it's like that and that's shocking to people, but like in
the best way possible because itis the best surprise like this,
this platform actually cares about me.
Like, why would I ever leave a platform that's actually like, I
(43:38):
pay them. It's all, it's all reciprocal.
I pay them, they pay me. I mean, incredible people.
They bring more people to the platform.
It's just like, what? What a great model, man.
That that's the kind of model that that lasts and and makes an
impact. It loves people.
Yeah. I want to encourage everybody as
we're wrapping this thing up to make sure you go to
podmatch.com/free. If you've never checked out
(44:00):
Podmatch for yourself, what can I expect when they go to that
link? Yeah, thank you for for
mentioning that. podmatch.com/free will just give
you 9 ideas for being a podcast guest or being a podcast host.
And if you're already one, there's some ideas there as well
that will help you if you're kind of just wanted to further
your journey. But if you're brand new, it's a
great place to start as well. So it's podmatch.com/free 9
quick ideas I think would be really helpful.
(44:20):
And it doesn't ask for your e-mail address or anything like
that. Just again, a way to serve, a
way to help. And I hope it really is
meaningful for everybody. Very cool.
The question I'd love to ask Alex before we sign off, say we
never talk again, Say anybody watching or listening never
hears from you again. And you wanted to leave a
lasting message for them in their life.
What would that message be? It'd be to to view the word
(44:40):
Focus as an acronym. So the word focus acronym, which
stands for Follow one course until successful, Follow One
course until successful. I think one of the biggest
issues that that we face in the world today and in business and
in life is this idea of chronic inconsistency.
We don't remain consistent. We don't remain the course long
enough to actually see things happen.
(45:01):
And I believe it's just maybe the world we live in where we
see so many highlights that we feel like things should happen
quick. They should have been fast.
There should be no friction involved.
But the reality is there's goingto be friction.
There's going to be some pain because if there wasn't,
everyone would already be doing exactly what you're thinking
about doing. So instead of giving into that,
follow one course until successful.
Stay focused longer than you think you should.
And I believe that you're going to come the other side with a
(45:23):
reward that no one else is able to achieve.
I love that man. Like I said, I'm always looking
for themes. There's the theme focus.
Follow one course until successful.
That is so good. Thank you for your time.
Thank you for doing what you do.Thank you for being a brother in
Christ. I appreciate that, Alex, and I
appreciate you being on the showtoday.
Another true testimony of breakthrough.
Until next time. This has been the unstuck
(45:44):
movement.
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