Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Straw Hut Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I remember somebody once said theater is a home for
many orphans, and I feel like that's that's very true.
It's like where the weirdos congregate who couldn't fit in
anywhere else, and it's it's so wonderful because of that.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome to the up Here down Low, the official companion
podcast to Who Lose Musical rom com up Here. We're
your hosts, Madison Cross.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
And Juliene Goza, two friends and theater kids.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
You're the Baker to my Baker's wife, and you're the
Roxy to my Velma. No, I'm Velma. We'll talk about
this later, and we're here to look behind the scenes
with cast, crew and creators on making musical TV Magic.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Musical TV Magic, I told.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
You not to sing. On today's episode, Julie and I
speak with Stephen Levinson, writer, showrunner and executive producer on
up Here. You probably know him from Tik Tik Boom,
Fossey Verdon, Masters of Sex, or Dear Evan Hanson, which
he wanted Tony for.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
We talked with him about watching the original stage production
of up Here back in twenty fifteen, how his own
struggles with writer's block, compare with Lindsay's in episode three
and how a bi cooastal writer's room created a wacky
world of comedy, romance, song and dance.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
We'll also check in with May Whitman and Carlos Valdez
who played Lindsay and Miguel, to talk about signs the
astrological kind, and of course we'll talk about the music
in episode three with Robert Lopez and Kristin Anderson Lopez
in our song segment.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
But first let's start with a little recap. Put on
the shoes to tap its time bow the gap. We
just finished episode three.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Sign Sign also, in my opinion, the most terrifying M
Night Shyamalan movie as well.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I was literally going to say, like the m Night Shamala,
that thing with that alien walks across that Kendaniana.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Oh my god, forget about it. Oh terrifying, terrifying. But
we're not here. We're talking about that.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
We are here to talk about episode three, which we loved.
I look for signs and a lot of things.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
That was one of my questions that I wrote down
for you. I think I naturally do, but for some reason,
I like don't want to accept that I'm the kind
of person that does.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I mean, but you're someone that puts your crystals on
the moonlight.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
And I did it last night. Do you there was
a full month?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I forgot it was a full moon.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
I didn't like it could be something as silly as like, Okay,
if that car turns left, then blank.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Do that all the time, all the time.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I will literally be like, if Julian texts you back
in five minutes, then that means that you go get
the sandwich, and like she's like, but if not, you
need to go make a salad at home. You know,
even small things like that. Yeah, well, let's talk through
the ups. She's looking for the signs. She's going into
her first writing class. We had that great scene with
(03:06):
her parents in the mirror that we laughed at. What
the moms saying had us giggling. She was like looking
for a man.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
All the voices are like telling her what to say
when she pitches herself as the writer.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Like the soft arms of a man or something. Anyways,
we giggled.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Also, smart of her to rehearse before going in there.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Oh, I do that all the time. Wow, in the
mirror a lot.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
I should do that more.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I do it all the time.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
Wow, I talk to myself all the time, but never
I never look at my direct when I talk to myself. Oh,
it intimidates me to be honest.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I mean, yeah, it is weird to look at yourself,
but sometimes it's nice to see like, oh, this facial
expression is or maybe I'm just a psychopath. Who knows.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
No, I think I maybe it's not a thing. I
don't know, but I know a lot of people that
do that. I don't think it's an I mean.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
I don't, Thank God.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
I don't think the voy's done at the auto shop
are doing it. But you know, if you're in the industry, true,
you don't know. Well, I guess let's walk through the
plot because I know I'm going to rail this train
if you let me.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Okay, So that's fargo wagon. Will not be a common
rath bend.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
That's not the lyrical, isn't it? No common? Is it
coming down the street? Oh?
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Please let it be for me.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
So then she goes to her first writing class and
the teacher ends up saying that she loves her stuff
and is offering to put her up to the next
level if she can write the second chapter. But she
doesn't have a second.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Chapter because classic problem.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yep, she didn't go to their breakfast, so she runs
into him, convinces him to hang out with her again
by throwing his book over the or his book bag
over the fence, and then says that you should throw mine.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
I've never had a moment like that on a date
or with any like. That's so zany and cute.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
So she does that. They hang out longer, and she
has this song about writing the second chapter.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
And also like looking again for like good good luck signs,
even though the world is showing her bad luck signs.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yes, but she then they're back. They sort of have
this meet cute again where they're falling for each other
and they're back at her place and she tells him,
which girl, I gotta tell you, do not tell anyone
that you are going to be writing about them. They
can find out later.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
It's a great Maddie, what's the story for me? Just
can you describe me as cantankerous?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I said cancer it?
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Oh wow?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
But yeah, never never tell people that stuff.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
Yeah, don't force the second date, and don't tell people
you're right, you're using them as fodder for the Great
American novel that you're working on.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And she tells him, and of course he does not
react well because also these guys do not know each
other very well. Right, all she knows is he knows
some stuff about bridges, and he tells everyone that his
name is Jimmy and that he lives with his father.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yeah, it's strange how emotionally intimate they are.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Well, that's the beginning of dating, I guess.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
Yes, yeah, yeah, if it's meant to be or like
maybe not quote meant to be that has a lot
of weight, but like if it's if it has legs,
you know, yeah, then yeah, I guess it starts pretty
emotionally intense. Yeah, at least, mind you.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
But she's just excited about her writing and is looking
for signs, and as he said, the sign that spins
is the dawn of time. She accidentally murders a family
of rats.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Which I was like, if I roasted rats in my
apartment before New York? Have you ever roasted rats?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Bro No, I have had rats in this house in
Los Angeles. Really, Yes, remember when I had to get
my whole kitchen redone.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
It is because they were eating through your wood.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yes, they ate through everything.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
I have a rat story, please, But this was a
restaurant in my hometown, and I just hear these.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Coworkers like, oh my god, Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
And it was like towards the end of the night
and ah, we just see is like the table move
like in Jurassic Car or something like a bush movie.
And then one of the chairs gets knocked over and
it was a big assrat that was just like running
through this restaurant.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Oh.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
I know it was a good restaurant that I went
back support local business.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Wow. So after that night, she screws things up and
she decides not to write the next chapter, and she
goes to her writing instructor and it is like, it
wasn't my story, and the instructor's like, girl, that's not
why we're reading this. I like your voice. I like
it because you cared about it. Like, that's what's bringing
interest to me. It's not just about this other person.
(07:39):
And so she goes to apologize. The voices in her
head are telling her not to listen to the signs.
But then quite literally, there is a sign and he's
in his little skis in the.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Window because he can't make it to the bachelor party.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yes, because he's got to be two places at once.
I was surprised at how quickly he kind of forgot
gave her. I think I'd have a harder time accepting
that because it seems like she's tripped over her toes
a little bit more than he has. And then they
fuck in the bathroom. That's a bathroom fucking. I feel
like I'm missing out on something.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
I also had a thought that like between like them
having like a little flirtatious moment over talking about like
this guy that has his toes amputated by the Brooklyn
Bridge and everything. Between that and the rats, there's like
this weird undercurrent of like the.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
I wrote down the macabre.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Sure get that vocabulary.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
I mean, like maybe that's this weird segue to them
working on things like Avenue Q, Like there is like
this like a strain of a reverence. Yeah, him working
on Book of Mormon totally.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
As writers original Obviously Frozen's a whole different thing, but
like they definitely like to push the limit, push the
edge of what can make people comfortable. I saw Avenue
You with my parents when I was like twelve years old,
and there's like puppets sucking and stuff and I remember
loving it and my dad being so overwhelmed that he
(09:09):
had taken me to see you.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Da, it's like it's a puppet musical. But my daughter,
he doesn't have an accent.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
That's how every dad talks in my brain.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
No dads have, Brooklyn.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Moms are just like, oh, you want to come in
for brunch, and dads are like yeah, and then dads
are very like, hey, get get inside. Yeah, your mom
make an apples side a cup.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Get me my bobby right. My name is Julian.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I got some questions you. It's time for the interview.
So remember how when we were interviewing May Whitman and
Carlos Ldez we got sidetracked and talked about Rue Paul
for a while. Well, we also got distracted and ended
up talking about our zodiac signs, which, since this episode
is called SI it feels like it isn't completely off topic.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Maddie's moon isn't turists, so there's there's there.
Speaker 7 (10:10):
Wait wait, wait, let's hear him. I got to hear
it from you all three place.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I'm a double Pisces tourists rising.
Speaker 7 (10:19):
Oh my god, that's cool. I'm a big tourist man,
I love it. Boris, what are you?
Speaker 4 (10:26):
I'm a piscy sun taurist Moon, Leo Rising.
Speaker 7 (10:30):
I'm rising. Oh my god, I'm on Leo Rising. Wow,
you guys have some pisces going on over there. I'm
sensing some pisces and energy.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
We're swimming. You're like a week apart, and you know,
we just look at each other and.
Speaker 7 (10:45):
Cry, yes, I have Pisces Mars. So like my fighting
style is very like, can't we just like put this
all in a big pod and let it stew and
like take the good parts off the top. It's like insane.
But by the rest of me is such a mess
My chart is. I'm like, I'm a Gemini son, I'm sorry.
(11:06):
A Leo Rising, I'm sorry. And in aries Moon, I'm sorry.
That's a messy chart.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
It's but I gotta say, I love Gemini women. I
get along really well with Gemini women, but I do
not get along with Gemini men.
Speaker 8 (11:21):
I hear Gemini men are kind of messes. Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (11:27):
Yes, you just you have to have an understanding of
yourself if you're going to be a Gemini, because it's
kind of like being a Slytherin. It's like, you can
use the power for good or for evil, and if
you don't do your work of like having an awareness
of yourself, then it's kind of you accidentally slip into
evil and some real damage can be done there. It's
like with great power, great responsibility. Carlos has a great
(11:49):
chart he does, he's got it's perfect. He didn't know
anything about this, by the way, before he met me.
And now he's like meets people and he's like, and
when I say she's a Virgo, she is a virgo, like,
it's great, but he's a he's an Aries Taurus cusp,
which is great. You get the best of both worlds.
And then he's like, it's there's best of both. As
(12:11):
a Gemini, I love an Aries aa Taurus. All my
best friends are Tauruses, other than I have a Pisces
as well. And and then he's a cancer rising sweet,
very sweet, and a Libra moon very fair, very balanced.
I know he's a gentleman. Thank you for helping me
with Actually, it's funny that Kristin said that. Kristin said
(12:34):
to me when we were doing the audition at the
very end, she was like, do you have aries in
your chart, and I was like, I'm an Aria's Moon,
and she was like I'm Aries and I was like, Okay,
this is making a lot more sense. Like Lindsay is
definitely an Aries. She's like charges forward into something and
then she's like, where am I Somebody holding me like
a baby? I'm confused.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
We're going to take a quick break when we come back.
Showrunner and executive producer Stephen Levinson tells us about how
theater became a refuge for him as a boy in
the suburbs and how they filled their bi cooastal writer's room.
(13:26):
You've done a lot of Broadway, You've done a lot
of TV, whether it's der Evan Hanson or Fosse Verden.
What's different about those two worlds?
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I mean, does is.
Speaker 9 (13:33):
There any way to combine them? Or how do you
kind of operate from one to the next.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
They're very They're very different in the way that you
make things. I would say, where like, you know, when
you're making theater, the thing I always think about and
the thing I always talk about is sort of like
when you're making a play or a musical. It feels
a lot like doing theater in middle school. Or high school,
Like it's the same exact thing where you're in the
(13:58):
room together building this ensemble, building this thing from start
to finish. I mean, of course you've gone off and
you've written and killed yourself for four years like building it.
But then once you're in the room, like it's this
very collaborative thing, and TV and film are much more
siloed where you're kind of you know, the writing happens
in this room, the production happens in this room, and
(14:21):
you don't have that period of time of refusal that
you have in theater where you really kind of form
a company together and you really feel like, oh, we're
all making this one thing. Hopefully that develops, and on
this series it definitely did, but you'd really have to
work at it. In TV and sale, like it's it's
very easy to just kind of show up on set.
(14:43):
The actors come in for their scenes, then they go
back to their trailers, and like it can feel very
segmented that way, and so there's nothing quite like theater
in that feeling of we're all in this room together
making this thing, and then just the skin a it
is so different. You know, TV or you're going to
(15:04):
a ton of locations, you're building sets, and then like
the speed of it is is really different, Like TV
is so fast. The writing is fast, the making of
it is fast. And there's this thing and Tommy talks
about this a lot where you know, you you work
on these scenes for so long, you know, months, sometimes years,
(15:26):
and then you show up on the day, you have
three or four hours to shoot it, and then it's
done and it's gone, and it's finished forever, like you're
never going back to it. The location is getting you know,
torn down the next day, or the set is getting
torn down the next day. The location we lose at midnight,
like you never go back. And there's something that's that's
(15:47):
kind of thrilling about that and kind of sad about
that versus theater where you're like, we're gonna, we're gonna
hit it every night. You know, we're gonna we're gonna
keep trying, We're going to keep going back to it.
The actors are going to find new things. This is
sort of like you find what you find and then
you're done. We know that there was a version of
up Here that was originally produced for the stage. Did
you see that production? I did actually see that production.
(16:09):
I saw it in La Joya in two thousand and sixteen,
if I'm remembering correctly, maybe twenty fifteen. Bobby and Christa
would know, but yes, I saw it then, and I
remember being really blown away by the score and by
the ambition of the piece, and by all that Bobby
(16:32):
and christ were trying to do with it, and the
hugeness of the questions they were asking, and then just
like the fun delightfulness of it. Everything they do always
has a certain you know, charm and winningness and humor.
They're so funny, which is so rare actually to have
songwriters who it's really hard to make a funny song
(16:53):
that's actually funny, and there are two of the people
who can do that and also a good song, which
I mean, then you're really firing on all cylinders. So yeah,
I do, and I guess I actually like at that point,
had like talked to them. We started talking at around
that point about the show and about you know, potentially
(17:15):
what they wanted to do next with it, and they were,
you know, considering doing some more work on it and
considering bringing on a book writer, and so for a
second there it looked like we might do something for
the stage with the show together, and then they got
pulled into a little indie called Frozen two, and you know,
(17:36):
like my life went the direction it went, and we
just sort of got pulled apart, and then this really
brought us back together many years later in a totally
different medium.
Speaker 9 (17:45):
Well, and kind of going off of that, when we
spoke with the lopez Is, they told us about the
idea of each episode sort of being its own mini musical.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
So what was what was it.
Speaker 10 (17:53):
Like collaborating with them and working with their own music
writing processes. Yeah, that idea of making each of these
a mini musical was something that we didn't really arrive
at until a few months into the process, as we
were developing the show and really trying to make it.
You know, Bobby and Christen, from the beginning, we had
a very clear ambition to make a musical series that
(18:16):
would work like a real musical, where the songs actually
forwarded the story, actually deepened character, as opposed to to
some musical TV series, which we also love, you know,
something like Flight of the Concords for instance, where like
we sort of have like the action of the series
and then a fun song comes in and then you're
back to the action.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Like, the question was like, could.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
We do something that was really integrated, And so as
we began cracking what that actually looked like, we arrived
at this idea of, well, the only way to really
make that work is for each of these segments episodes
to feel like its own musical. Otherwise it's going to
feel random and non sequitor. And so that was a
(18:59):
big leap forward for us, and yeah, it changed the
trajectory of the series for sure, as we began to
imagine eight many musicals, one season long musical, one series
long musical. And we had a ton of flow charts
that we made in various apps showing this for ourselves,
(19:21):
for our partners, and we started to try to think
of each episode as addressing a certain question, a certain
theme phrased as a question, and that kind of became
our way in and then, you know, as we went along,
we threw out a lot of that as you inevitably
do you know like and found better, different unexpected ideas.
(19:43):
But that was a really good starting point, was to say,
these are the eight questions that we're going to ask
over the course of this season.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Do you remember what those questions were?
Speaker 7 (19:52):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
My God, I knew you would ask that and knew no.
I think I remember the first episode well, when we
first advised the series, we thought of what became episodes
one and two. As episode one, we thought that was
going to be one episode where you would see Lindsay's
side of what happened and then Miguel's side of what happens.
(20:13):
And so the question for that episode was who am
I and who are you? Which became a song in
the second episode, And then I think can you do casual?
Was I know? I remember that was for episode four?
Is it possible to do casual in a relationship? Or
does that always portend disaster? And then I completely forget
(20:33):
all of the other ones, but they were so good.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
In episode three, Lindsay's got you know, she's struggling with
writer's block. Is her her biggest thing? Trying to do
you relate to that? Did that come from your own
experience as a writer?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yes, I think I don't know that it's possible to
be a writer and not a writer's block. I think
that's just part of the process. As frustrating and as
miserable as that is, Like, I think that's just that's
just the sad truth of it is, like you know,
you have to for me at least, I have to
go to that place before I can get out of
(21:13):
that place. Often.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yeah, I'm a writer myself, and I very much related
to it because like part of the deal, you know,
it is.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I mean, I don't know anyone who sits down and
the words just flow out of them every time, like
and if there are those people, I hate them and
I don't think they should be allowed to be writer. No,
I think, you know, like I really you know all
the writers. I know it's it's hard, you know, and
it's it's I feel like it's supposed to be hard,
which is unfortunate.
Speaker 9 (21:45):
Do you relate to Lindsay kind of following that line
of investigation of like, what are what are these blocks?
What's causing these blocks? Are you that self reflective about
it or do you just kind of, you know, kind
of power through and pummel through.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
You know, I'm totally not that reflective about it.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I think.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I think Lindsay is is someone who's always looking for
obviously signs and deeper meaning, and she's very tuned into
that stuff in a way that I find charming and funny.
And strange that like nothing is ever on the surface
with her, she has to plumb the depths.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Yes, what does the writer's room look like making a
musical compared to you've worked on other TV shows? Like,
you know, is it just things on a board like
a normal writer's room or do you divide up songs?
Like what does it look like?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah? Well, we had a zoom writer's room first of all,
which is as fun as it sounds, and but no,
it was kind of great because most of our writers
were in Los Angeles and I'm in New York. Bobby
and Kristen are in New York. But we were able
to have this bicoastal writer's room, which was really special.
But we decidedly on that we were gonna try to
(22:54):
come up with a balance of people in the writer's
room who had theater experiences and people who had comedy experiences.
But ultimately we leaned a little more on the TV
comedy side because it felt like I knew a lot
about Peter, and Bobby and Kristin knew a lot about Peter,
and Tommy knew a lot about Theeter, so we really
wanted to kind of fill in the gaps. But it
was important to us everyone that we talked to. Every
(23:14):
writer we interviewed, we asked them first. I think it
was the first question was do you like musicals? Because
we felt like we couldn't hire people that hated musicals.
That just wouldn't work. But we did hire people that
didn't know a lot about musicals but were curious and
interested to learn. And then like, the way the room
(23:35):
really functioned is sort of like, you know, Bobby and
Kristin were in there quite a bit, like they were
other writers, and so especially in the beginning, we were
all kind of hashing out the big picture stuff together,
and then as we got into the episodes, we would
work in the writer's room and then we would call
Bobby and Kristin or text them and be like, can
(23:57):
you jump into the zoom and we would kind of
bring them up to speed us on what we've been
discussing and where we thought there might be musical moments
in an episode, and then they would kind of weigh
in with where they thought the musical moments could go
based on what we were saying, and slowly but surely
we would kind of wrangle this thing together.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
So another question is like, because we were talking to
Lopez is about Julian when we were watching, was having
such a hard time not assuming that this is like
exactly their life.
Speaker 9 (24:27):
Like He's like, oh wow, She's like, oh, Bobby was
in a tough corporate shop.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Yeah. They then said, you know, it's not exact, and everyone,
you know, all the writers and everyone puts bits of
themselves into the characters and the storylines. What are some
of the bits that you feel like you put better
pieces of yourself in this show?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah, I mean I think I think you know, Danielle
and I as we were kind of really in the
weeds with these characters and figuring them out. I think
kind of kept switching back and forth between which characters
we were identifying with as you do. There's definitely pieces
of I see pieces of myself in Lindsay and in
that like optimism, you know, when I was that age
(25:12):
of like wanting to go to New York and build
a life and like change everything about yourself. I think Miguel,
I get like how guarded he is. I feel that
in myself for sure, And I think, yeah, I think
there are pieces in both of them and in their
particular neurosis that I definitely to relate to. We definitely
(25:34):
wanted to find, you know, when we first started working
on developing the series, Miguel, that character was a lot
closer to to Bobby actually, like like Danielle and I
from the beginning were sort of like Bobby and Kristen
are pretty good models for these characters. So and and
then what we discovered was we sort of wound up
(25:55):
with like two Lindsay's at the center of the series,
like two people that were creating and open and expressive.
And so we really had to work to like build
Miguel into something totally different, Miguel somebody who is closed
off and following the wrong path for him. And and
(26:17):
it is in finance versus the arts, which is like,
you know, not where we originally thought a character would go.
But that's sort of how that developed for us.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
So a big part of the show is the voices
in their heads. Who would you say, are the voices
in your head?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
They're like, God, I mean, how much time do we have?
Speaker 8 (26:36):
You know?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I definitely my parents are up there, like I think,
like for all of us, that's probably true. I do
sometimes feel like those bullies from middle school, like are
the people who doubted me or I felt like doubted me.
They are definitely like voices of encouragement in my head.
And that was something that when we first started writing
(27:01):
the series, we have this idea of it, these characters
would have sort of positive voices and negative voices in
their heads, and as we wrote, we discovered that those
positive voices, by putting them in the series, our characters
just kind of had nothing to do because it sort
of was all in their head. Like everybody, every point
that could be voiced was being voiced by something up there.
(27:25):
And one of the big turning points in the series
was deciding, like the voices in their heads are going
to be our antagonists, Like those are the bad guys
in the series, and the question is will our heroes
be able to defeat them or not? And that gave
us such a clear through line. But so I think
in truth, we do have those voices of positivity and
the people that believed in us and encouraged us, but
(27:48):
not on this show.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
And we're asking a lot of people because you know
musical theater and this is an exciting musical theater TV combo,
When did you become a theater kid?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yes, I became a theater kid. In I would say
I was twelve years old and I was in Bye
Bye Birdie. In sixth grade, I played Ed Sullivan and
that was my I guess I had done a little
play like in third grade, but that doesn't count. But
this was my first like real theater experience, and I
(28:23):
just loved it. Like I was a kid who was
never good at sports and it felt like this big
yawning abyss in my life as a boy in the suburbs.
Like everyone else played sports, everyone else loved sports, and
I like pretended to like sports and tried to be
good at them. It was just terrible and so like
I had no idea like what my thing was. And
then I found Feeder and I was like, oh, this
(28:43):
is my thing. And then I did JCC Feeder summer
camps like, which was like the next big thing for me,
like finding a tribe and finding like my people. And yeah,
like I remember somebody one said theater is a home
for many orphans, and I feel like that's that's very true,
(29:07):
especially about age. You know, it's it's like where the
weirdos congregate who couldn't fit in anywhere else, and it's
it's so wonderful. Because of that, I'm like wiping away.
Speaker 8 (29:18):
That slowly rolls down.
Speaker 9 (29:21):
There was so much relatability in that service.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Yes, yeah, I was a boy in the suburb.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yes times.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
It's time for another quick break. When we come back,
we'll talk about the songs in episode three with Bobby
Lopez and Kristin Anderson Lopez. Welcome back.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
Before we dive into our conversation with Bobby and Christian,
we had a little chat with John Hodgman, who plays
Lindsay's dad. John is, among many other things, an accomplished writer,
and we'll be back with him in the coming weeks.
But his favorite song from the series is in this episode.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
What's your favorite song in the show.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Oh, it's a sign. It's a sign. That's a sign
right there in black and white. Boom boom boom, because
so many things rhyme with sign, and so throughout the
throughout the rest of the shoot, after we got that
(30:41):
earworm on our heads, Katie and I would constantly be
singing to each other any opportunity we had, like what
time is lunch? And I'd be like, it's.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Not time, it's not time.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Stuff dumb stuff like that theater kids.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
I was literally like, well, now you've just got Julia
and I for the rest of the day are going
to be like time from Why Yeah, would you like
some one?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Where's the Way? Where's the wye?
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, that's going to be our new bit.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Also, that's the song that has that, That's the song
that has my big solo in it, my my big
one line solo where I get to do a little
twirl singing. Note the spatter of blood the base of
the stairs. You know if you want to if you
if you haven't seen that episode yet, you want to
know about the spatter of blood watch it nice way
(31:34):
to tease that.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
Yeah, hold on to your thone.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
It's time to talk about songs. It's a sign which
we really laughed very hard with the when she's in
the parents are in the You're looking at her and
the mom says something about like yeah, a nice man
(32:03):
or whatever, got what she's strong arms or something.
Speaker 7 (32:08):
Note the broken mirror and the haunted dog, but encouraging
graffiti on the lovely whoa.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
I just won't go that way.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I'm damn. It looks like them is doing the Scottish
play someone drop get him now it's mine.
Speaker 11 (32:26):
It's it's.
Speaker 12 (32:31):
It's a.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Gonna no that is comedhydrated ejaculate, So it's a sign.
Can you tell us about that song? If you guys
are people that look for signs, or.
Speaker 5 (32:44):
Because Maddie and I are incredibly suspicious. Yeah, we're very
suspicious characters.
Speaker 12 (32:51):
Yes, but aren't we all when when life is unknown,
like you look for something to tell you we're getting
a big college decision for our daughter today. And I
went to my astrology app to see what what this?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
You know?
Speaker 12 (33:08):
I can't remember. It wasn't anything super clear.
Speaker 8 (33:11):
But sometimes like that outlook.
Speaker 12 (33:15):
Look unclear, and that probably means she's getting waitlisted. But
the when we before we even met, I was told
by a psychic in Hangman Square in New Orleans that
I was I was going to be a writer. I
was not a writer. I was a mediocre actress and
I was working with schizophrenic patients at the time for
(33:37):
the bronx VA Hospital. And she told me I would
meet someone of undisclosed ethnicity in a club or a class,
she couldn't tell which. And I was with someone who
I thought I was going to marry. I had been
with him for like five years, so I thought, what
does she know this psychic, but I paid her twenty
(33:57):
dollars and I went my own way, and then sure
enough I became a writer, and I met a man
of undisclosed ethnicity three eighths Filipino and in the class
were a club, because the B and My Workshop isn't
really a class. It's like a.
Speaker 8 (34:15):
Somewhere between a classic blow. So either either that psychic
was right or Kristen just did what she told her
to do.
Speaker 9 (34:24):
You manifested it.
Speaker 8 (34:27):
It was fun to try to sort of figure out
what the signs would be and what they would film,
what they'd be able to film on the street.
Speaker 7 (34:35):
That was.
Speaker 8 (34:36):
That was fun to watch that one to come together.
It was it was I thought it was really nicely shocked,
like can we oh yes.
Speaker 12 (34:43):
Yes, yeah, that was super fun. It was very hot though,
I remember that day. It was deep, deep in July,
and we have people like in coats.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Of heat in New York.
Speaker 8 (34:55):
Yes, we wrote that. We wrote a lot but encouraging
graffiti on the crumbling wall. But the wall that they
wrote the fat Tits graffiti on was so nice looking
that we had to change it to the lovely wall.
Speaker 12 (35:12):
And we had to do it. We had to do
it really late. We had already produced that soundtrack, so
listened for the difference in May's voice on Lovely.
Speaker 7 (35:22):
It's the magic of ady r, a rusty park bench,
a flexi bag of sati, sweet and left.
Speaker 11 (35:33):
What she was after was harder enough to correct than for,
she thought, And so she thought fincespreach. She'd gotten what
she wanted. But the victory felt roll. The rest she
thought would farm had vanished. What he told her sur
(36:03):
past all that she'd written, she should.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Go home and put it all on paper.
Speaker 11 (36:08):
But she realized she wouldn't write this chapter anyore.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
She would live it.
Speaker 7 (36:21):
She'd rather live.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Starting now she lives.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
With which into chapter two, speaking of shooting in the
black and white around the boulder and that song about
trying to figure out her spark. I'm sure you guys
relate to that as writers. That's where that comes from.
Speaker 8 (36:47):
Yeah, yeah, My favorite thing about that is just how
pretentious she's allowing herself to be in her own mind,
how she seems to feel like every single word of
this is gold and it's going to be the most
incredible novel. I just I just love that, you know,
being being a writer like all of us as writers
can relate to that feeling of like I'm having inspirations
(37:09):
or you.
Speaker 12 (37:09):
Know, ugly tears because because what you wrote was just
so emotional, and then you go back and you show
someone else and you're like, what is going on?
Speaker 8 (37:19):
Because you need a concept like this because in no
other musical would you write that song about the inside
feeling of writing something.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
This is right.
Speaker 8 (37:30):
A show like this can really take you there. And
it was cool that we were essentially repeating the plot
that it just unfolded, like we met there and we
walked and then we you know, we took got some
nuts and whatever, and he said this thing. But because
it's a creative inspiration and because something it's a decision,
(37:50):
and she decides not to write this story after all,
it's new information, and we see her change.
Speaker 12 (37:56):
We we're with her as she's sorting through this decision.
Shout out to Sonya Taye and her incredible dancers and
the way that Sonya and Kimmy and our DP, our
director of photography, Ashley all worked together to try and
like they basically had to storyboard this whole thing so
(38:18):
you could tell when are you getting real may and
when are you getting writer May observing and then that
beautiful moment that I think I'm going to say it
was sort of found with Sonya of the minute that
she finally pushes over the observer, and I think maybe
(38:39):
it was Sonya who discovered the observer. This is the
amazing thing about collaboration is that when Sonia had to
bring this to life through dance, she discovered that there
were going to be two Lindsay's there, the Watcher and
the Lindsay And then that amazing moment of losing the
(39:00):
Watcher and letting the Watcher step in to herself was
really found in that collaboration. And there was a stunt
double who had to fall several feet, like just get
pushed off this rock and fall several feet onto a mattress.
Speaker 8 (39:19):
Yeah, she was there all day long to fall like
three feet and you can still sort of see her
in camera.
Speaker 5 (39:27):
What a job, what a life career picturing a little
feet like dangling on the top of the boulder.
Speaker 8 (39:32):
There's a lot of cgi in the song. It's you
wouldn't really notice it, but there's there's I mean to
get them both to get two Mays in one song.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 5 (39:47):
We'll be back next week to talk about episode four
with more of the cast and creative team from the show.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
If you want to share a moment where you could
have burst into song, email us at up here at
straw hutmedia dot com and we might feature you on
the show.
Speaker 5 (40:00):
If you like the show, please leave us a rating
and review wherever you're tuning in from and share the
show with your friends.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
See you next week. Up Here down Low is a
straw Hut Media production. It's hosted by Madison Cross and
Julian Goza. The show it's produced by Ryan Tillotson and
Maggie Bulls. Our associate producers are Lydia McMahon, Javier Salas,
and Jean Lee. Our editor is Daniel Ferreira. Big thanks
(40:29):
to everyone at Hulu, including Kristin Anderson, Lopez and Bobby
Lopez for their help putting the show together.
Speaker 6 (40:42):
I often break out songs sometimes when I'm frustrated or
when I'm really happy, so as an expression to get
out a statement of how excited or how frustrated I am.
Speaker 7 (40:54):
And so I'm not