Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Straw Hut Media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I never went to an underground sex party with Doctor Seuss,
Like that never happened.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Oh damn, but don't you wish it would happen.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I think it's really important to this Seuss family.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
That never happened.
Speaker 5 (00:21):
We want to get SEUs.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Welcome to the up Here down Low, the official companion
podcast to Hulu's musical rom com up Here. We're your hosts,
Madison Cross.
Speaker 6 (00:37):
And Juline Goza, two friends and theater kids.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
You're the Baker to my Baker's wife.
Speaker 6 (00:41):
And you're the Roxy to my Velma.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
No, I'm Velma.
Speaker 6 (00:44):
We'll talk about this later.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
And we're here to look behind the scenes with cast,
crew and creators on making musical TV Magic.
Speaker 6 (00:51):
Musical TV Magie.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
We told you not to sing.
Speaker 7 (01:01):
On today's episode, Julie and I speak with none other
than the amazing Brian Stokes Mitchell, who plays the children's
book author with a dark Side.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Mister Magooch.
Speaker 6 (01:10):
We talk about performing in an underwater circus with the
song so many ways, the darker hidden messages in many
children's books, and some of the big differences between acting
on screen versus in the theater.
Speaker 7 (01:20):
Plus, we have a very special song segment today with
choreographers Sonya Taye as well as songwriters and creators Bobby
Lopez and Kristin Anderson Lopez.
Speaker 6 (01:30):
But first, let's start with the little recap Put on
the Shoes to Tap Its Time Bowl The Gap.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Episode four special. Oh Synchronicity. Yes, what a fun episode.
It was giving me Chicago the like, I literally did
you write that down?
Speaker 6 (02:05):
I have Bob Fossey moment in first part of the
bathroom number, like the chorea of the lighting.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
The pulling apart of the set.
Speaker 6 (02:11):
Uh huh.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
It does that thing so well. That is so hard
movie musicals, TV musicals really hard to do.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
And that.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Type of like mixing the stage with the film is
always so fun to see. And that's very Chicago.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
Yeah, and it's cool when you see television series that
are musicals that can kind of bounce in a way
from genre to genre.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Totally so narrative. They hook up in the bathroom, which
we were saying during is like, is everyone just fucking
in the bathroom or.
Speaker 6 (02:46):
Is that a thing in the nineties?
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Well, I don't, I don't know. Like it's the way
that everyone apparently like fucks on airplanes. It's like, I'm
always so shocked to.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
Hear the idea of fucking on an airplane stresses me out.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Oh yeah, getting caught getting it. I really don't like
to get in trouble, right, And.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
So he's really feeling it yes after having sex in
mathroom and not getting caught.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
And she's saying I want to keep it cash yes,
And he panics hearing that and pretends that he doesn't
want that. He's cool with keeping it cast?
Speaker 6 (03:16):
Yeah, are you cool with keeping it cash?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Pretty much always know I but I am really good
at pretending that I'm cool with keeping it cast?
Speaker 8 (03:26):
Right.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
And so he has a whole dance there's a whole
number on the subway where like his different voices are
like you could do this well, I guess bro voice
his pro voice. So I turned to Maddie like because
he's like me girls like, yeah, I'm a man, I'm
a man. And I told Maddy I was like, I
feel so strange calling myself a man because I feel
(03:47):
like a little boy totally.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I think that most people do anyway. Nobody knows what
they're doing, nobody's a grown up. Like I think maybe
in the fifties people were grown ups and then that stopped.
But that's what he's realizing is he doesn't want to
keep a cash.
Speaker 6 (04:02):
And it's hard to keep a cash the more you
see the person too.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Yes, I'm also not sure if she's just saying that
or if she means that she wants to keep it cash,
because she does seem like she wants him around.
Speaker 7 (04:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
She's working at the bookstore, he's at the bank, and
he thinks he's found a new big client, which he
hasn't before, so this is a big deal. And it
seems like in all of their interactions Lindsey and Miguel
are just going back and forth like you're doing that,
I'm doing this too. You're doing that, I'm doing that too.
And so she says or he sees in her planner
(04:40):
that she's got plans with a man named Ted, who.
Speaker 6 (04:45):
Is the children mister.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Mister mcgooge, which mcgooch did you also think of? Isn't
the like the it's mister mcgooch.
Speaker 6 (04:55):
Well, there's a fictional character named mister.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Magoo Yes, but in this yes love but this show,
his name is mister.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
Mcgooch magooge with a G.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I think it's magooch like that part between your balls
and your butt, really, I think so.
Speaker 6 (05:11):
I want to look at them now and see what
Brian Stokes Mitchell is credited as.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
But he talks about that all children's books are about death,
which yes, they definitely are.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
Yeah good Night Moon in particular that I was like,
oh my god, yeah, it is about death.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I like quite literally just read that to a child.
I literally babies at my friend's kid.
Speaker 6 (05:28):
How is it not the most beautiful children's book?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
It is adorable. Well, it's about it's about death, apparently.
I wondered about green eggs and ham. Yeah, what is
the ham drugs?
Speaker 6 (05:40):
I love that it's the ham that tripped you up
and not the green eggs. The green egg like, well
green eggs naturally, but yeah, black tar heroin. And they
bond over their love of mister.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Macgoog for a moment, but then she gonna go maybe
hook up with him or switch.
Speaker 6 (05:57):
Adds insult to injury for sure. Yeah, not allowed to
sleep with any of my childhood icons, Maddie, I.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Would never Yeah, although you did say you played cat
in the hat, so we're gonna go.
Speaker 6 (06:09):
It's not gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
So he ends up making a date with the girl
he met at the bar, and to which I started
writing in my little notes that I was like, oh no,
his coworker, he's like just getting places at work, and
it turns out to be a little sex debated thing
he wants to.
Speaker 6 (06:32):
Yeah, the coworker is this girl's fiance who he picks
up at the bar. Yes, but it was a plan
so the coworker can actually watch Miguel and his wife yes,
all over each other.
Speaker 9 (06:45):
Yees.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
But they I was gagged, and I totally loved it.
I love that he sat down. He's like, yeah, and
maybe I'll just sit here with my pants down and watch,
and she's like, well, we've got to do it.
Speaker 6 (06:57):
There's no other ession. I loved their commit.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Yeah, it was so funny. And then they had that
sweet moment where he's like telling them how he feels,
and they said that the number one key was honesty.
Speaker 6 (07:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
But meanwhile, she's at this underground circus sex.
Speaker 6 (07:15):
Party, an underwater circus, So she goes.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
To this sex party thing and then he thinks he's
gonna Miguel is gonna go tell her his feelings and
he says, I'm with someone, and before he can say
but I love you. She says I was.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
With someone as well.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
I would so do that, and yes, and Mike, you
can't hear.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
But my question is do we think that she was
actually with him sexually?
Speaker 6 (07:40):
Well, I don't think so, because they don't needn't see it.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
She said she was with someone, and I'm wondering if
maybe she made out with someone else.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
There, oh, because it was a sex party.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah. But he then is getting his feelings hurt, and
he's like, I don't think we.
Speaker 6 (07:59):
Should stoke Mitchell, who plays mister Magooge.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Oh my god, we love this number again, very Chicago.
Speaker 6 (08:05):
Very Chicago, but really fun, so good.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Sounded so good, really fun number. Love that man. She
says that she might want to write a children's book,
which I actually think she's going to find harder than
she thinks. But maybe that's what she becomes. I don't know.
The end is him saying like, I don't think we
should do this anymore.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
Right, self saboteur.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
When she is obviously upset about it.
Speaker 6 (08:29):
So much of this of the thorough line I think
right now is like self sabotage.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
A lot of times when people are saying like I'm
just trying to do me and focus on me. They're
ignoring good things in front of them too. Yeah, and
so she's obviously ignoring this great thing that she could
have and not realizing that there's a way to do both.
Speaker 6 (08:49):
Wow. Yeah, I having yet found a way to do both.
To be honest, I mean, they're like relationship mode or
I'm like, no, this one's for the ladies. Yeah, this
lady's not up in here.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Certainly difficult, girl, It's hard. It is hard.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
It's a balance.
Speaker 10 (09:03):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Ideally, I am so much of like a giver that
I quickly lose myself, which is not great either.
Speaker 6 (09:11):
I's Moon, I'll pray for you, thank you. Before we
dive into the episode. It's probably good to do a
little moment of gratitude. We've been so lucky to talk
to so many amazing creators and performers, and we're only
halfway through the season.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And then there's Stokes.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Stokes.
Speaker 6 (09:31):
Oh my, I audibly gasped when he can get on screen.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
It's a sign of Stokes that you have notten that yet.
And I think you're gonna love.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
It for Stokes.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (09:43):
In case you don't recognize their voicees, this is Kristen
and Bobby talking about our guest today.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
He's a silver fox. And he also he was so
game and such a wonderful collaborator. He came with his
own microphone.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Well he was like, in case you guys don't have
the first I do.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Keeps it in his back pocket.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
No, he keeps in a large suitcase.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I got some questions you.
Speaker 7 (10:18):
It's time for the interview.
Speaker 9 (10:22):
And everybody calls me Stokes by the way, to some
please call me Stokes. So now I'm sitting in a
bathroom in a hotel, which is a very in the
good space to do is that's one of my happy
pieces is hotel bathroom. So my happy place.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
Well, your character, mister mcgo is like truly such a
highlight of the series.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Can you tell us about.
Speaker 7 (10:44):
Playing that role and who he is in contact of
the show.
Speaker 9 (10:48):
Well, you know, he's kind of the worky characters. What
I love about the show is everybody's kind of unexpected
on It doesn't quite go in the direction you think
it will. And mister much of course is this doctor
Susian kind of children's book writer. But it turns out
he's caught a rather dark edge. So that's what really
(11:09):
kind of makes him him fun and unexpected, and I
just love quirky characters like that, so that's why he
delighted me.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
So there is a fun irony in this legacy of
children's authors that have this kind of like dark, almost
like psychosexual side, you know. So it's fun that the
show kind of played with that. I remember, you know,
looking like my son who has grown now. You know,
we used to read him lots of shells Silverstein poetry,
who I still love, and I remember just the first
(11:41):
time I turned the book around and saw his picture,
I went, oh, my god, this guy does not look
like his poetry. So you know that's yeah, I have
a feeling that's a lot of those children's book authors.
I know you mentioned shel Silverstein or Silverstein.
Speaker 9 (11:55):
You say Stein, I say stun.
Speaker 6 (11:58):
But who are some other children's authors that you really admire?
And a second part to this, were there any children's
authors that you based mister mcgooch on.
Speaker 9 (12:07):
Or that found their way into his DNA? Well, for me,
he was a cross between the Doctor Seuss that seemed
to be really his true progenitor. I think, you know,
from the writer's mind. But also there's a lot of
shells Silverstein in him and that kind of sideways darkness
that he that he has as well. There are a
lot of authors that do that, and especially children's authors,
(12:27):
and those are the ones that I'm fascinated with when
they take on subjects that are like, wow, did they
that person really just say that? In this children's book,
Ted mcgooch talks about the Giving Tree. You know, for instance,
a Self Silverstein's story. You know, some people think, oh,
it's about this little boy, you know, but you could
also view it as this this you know, human beings
(12:48):
that just abuse nature as well. It's another story about that,
and you know, and so I love that kind of
uh double vision of life of a character, of a
situation and children. His book authors actually have this kind
of wonderful ability to do that because everybody's kind of
open with these childlike hearts. And it's not a child
(13:08):
as childlike as Ted magooch, but the Lion, the Witch
and the Wardrobe, or swiftly tilting Planet Green's fairy tales.
They's a perfect example there gains where the word gratin
comes from. You know, these terrible stories of these you know,
usually morality tails that we're told to children to teach
them a lesson about something. Don't go into the woods,
(13:30):
you know, the big bed will fully eat you, or
whatever else it may be. It's a nice way to
tell them about some of the terrible things in life
and kind of let them understand it in their child's
brain without totally terrifying them and shutting down for the
rest of their lives.
Speaker 7 (13:45):
Yeah, it's amazing how how much context is within children's
stories than we know about.
Speaker 6 (13:53):
Yes, we're going to take a quick break. When we
come back, more of Brian Stokes Mitchell. We'll talk about
channeling Leonard Cohen, collaboration on set, and how oddball characters
like mister mcgooch can give us fresh perspectives. Your song
(14:24):
and episode four is amazing. Can you tell us about
the costuming, the choreography, everything else that made that so spectacular?
Speaker 8 (14:31):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (14:32):
Yeah, it was so much fun. You know what I
love most about doing the show. I think it was
really like putting on it, like, hey, let's do a
crazy Broadway show in a week, but you're doing with
the best choreographers, the best dancers, the best singers, just
really great people. And one of the fun things about
it was the excitement and the joy that everybody had
(14:53):
doing these these numbers, and it was incredibly collaborative and
incredibly supportive, and people would finish doing everybody would burst
out in spontaneous applause, you know, or somebody would do
something new or some you know, flip or some something
and everybody would burst out in applause. It was it
felt a little bit like Broadway fun camp, I think too,
all of us involved. And so that was that was
(15:16):
actually one of my most fun parts of it. And
then and then getting on the set and seeing, you know,
how the lighting designer realized it, and the cinematographer realized it,
and the director and the set designer. The films, you know,
and I think Broadway as well, that the performing arts
are in this incredibly collaborative art and you get all
these really brilliant people all together in one room and
(15:38):
everybody has is working together for the same goal, and
somehow miraculously wonderful thing happens like and up here, you know,
and the numbers that are on that show. To think, man,
if if Washington d C. Could just follow that lead,
you know, and just see what happens when we all
work together toward a common goal. Everybody disparate skills from
(16:01):
disparate parts of the country, disparate political parties speaking different languages,
you know, sometimes all work together and that's what you get.
Is this crazy, you know, fun, delightful, joyous thing. Which
are the musical numbers?
Speaker 8 (16:18):
And up here.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Stokes for President.
Speaker 6 (16:21):
I know I was going to say, I'm writing you
in on my next ballad.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Yeah, please don't.
Speaker 9 (16:25):
I'll kill myself.
Speaker 7 (16:28):
So, speaking of the memories, do you have something like
specific of putting the show or maybe being on set
or rehearsal, like a specific memory that sticks out to you.
Speaker 9 (16:37):
Well, I think one of the most fun things was
recording the Nurse with the Lopez. Is when you do
a number for television, it's very that you actually get
to sing it live. Even though I'm sure pretty much
everybody on that show could have performed it that way
if they wanted to, it just makes it very difficult
to edit it and to film it and you know,
put the whole thing together and make it sound consistent
(16:58):
if you're doing that. So generally we pre record the
tracks and then then you kind of live sync along
with them. And so the really fun part was kind
of discovering who this character was and what he sounded
like on tape to me and the song that I
was given. Originally, I tried a lot of different ways
of singing him because there's a kind of goofy musical
(17:20):
theater sound that he had, but there's also this kind
of dark sound that he has when he goes into
his dark place. You know, that's kind of a little
you know, maybe a little sounds a little creepy, and
so just occasionally I would slip into that little voice.
I actually get an entire take like that too, but
I think maybe they thought it was a little too
(17:40):
too far over the edge, so we didn't use that.
But occasionally you hear I'm kind of going to this place,
so you know, it's I was thinking, I thought Leonard Cohen,
How would Leonard Cohen have sung this song?
Speaker 6 (17:52):
And so obviously they are different. Acting for screen and
acting on stage are different animals. How do you approach
one versus the other?
Speaker 9 (18:01):
Well, acting for theater act it's in a sense, it's
I mean, the most obvious way to say it is
it's larger because you're trying to perform for the people
that are sending in the back row. The third Meazoninge
and try to have it communicate to them. But the
trick to theater acting is you don't want to be
too large because there's also somebody sitting in the front
row only three feet from you, and so the trick
(18:24):
is to find that happy medium where you're able to
communicate something. In film, you basically it's about what you think.
It's really in your eyes. You don't have to do
much because the camera is right up in your face.
And when you're doing a film like that or of
any kind, actually you usually start with a master shot,
which is the shot that is from the furthest back,
(18:44):
and that would be in a sense maybe the most
theatrical where you could be a little larger. But as
the camera moves in you tend to want to minimize
your performance because you just don't have to do that
much work. And the camera is close up and you're
acting a lot, it just looks ridiculous, so you just
make it small and you really it's all about just
(19:05):
thinking your character and thinking the thoughts, and the camera
has this wonderful way of picking that up just because
it's right in your face.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
That's an amazing answer.
Speaker 9 (19:13):
Yes, Also one more thing, there's differences in singing technique too,
because in film and in recording, you can sing things
very softly, and you can sing things very quietly. I
can sing a line like this which would hardly be
heard on the stage unless it's totally amplified, and of
course all Feeder is pretty much now, but still something
(19:36):
that soft. What might be odd in a theatrical setting,
you know, just because most of the rest of the
show is going to be relatively loud, But that kind
of sound works really really well in film as well.
So what I love about it is it kind of
allows me to use all the colors and all the
little tricks and things that I do with my voice
because I'm kind of an I think, an unusual singer
(19:58):
that way. I can sing big Broadway stuff, but I've
done a humongous amount of animated voiceovers in my life,
so I have all these crazy voices in my body
as well, and you know, different things that I can
do with my voice. And I thought, oh, what a
perfect character. A children's book author and a sideways one
at that.
Speaker 7 (20:16):
Speaking of characters, we think a lot of the people
watching the show and listen to this podcast are theater
kids like we are. Do you have a favorite role
that you've played on stage, Well.
Speaker 9 (20:26):
The most magical role, you know, if you ask me
the favorite one is having the one that I'm working
on at the time, as you said, it would be
my answer, you know, because I'm the most inside that
one in and in tune with that particular role. But
as I look back on all the roles that I've
done in my career, I one of the things I've
continued to say was the most magical show that I've
ever done has been rag Time and I'm doing Cole
(20:49):
house Walker in that particular show that was just a
confluence of magical people, energy forces, things that seem to
come together. I said, it felt like doing that show
like somewhere often the eighth or four time in Space,
we all gathered and somebody said, I'm going to be
an actor. I'm going to be a director, I'm going
to be a choreographer. I'm going to be a writer,
(21:09):
I'm going to I'm going to be a that aliighting designer,
you know whatever. We're going to all get together on
planet Earth and do something really cool when we get there.
And that's what a Ragtime felt like. And also because
of the impact of that show, and the message of
that show, which is just as profound, if not more
so now as it was when it first came out,
(21:32):
that that is it still speaks loudly. And we just
did our first twenty year and only twenty fifth year reunion.
It's the first time we can actually the cast has
gotten together and was the first time for many of
us to see each other in twenty five years. And
we did this big, huge performance concert of the show
for the Entertainment Community Fund and raised over a million
(21:54):
dollars for that one night on late performance. We also
taked it so people kind of look at it for
the Entertainment Community Fund websites and Entertainmentcommunity dot org. They'll
they'll be able to find out once that's edited all
together that we're kind of putting the final touches on that,
so hopefully that'll be something that everybody can see. The
(22:16):
other character, though, by the way, and answer to that
question would be a Don Quixote in Man of La Mansha.
You know, he's also a sideways kind of character like
Ted mcgooch and I like these quirkie people that see
the world differently, and then as a result of that,
other people kind of see the world through through their
eyes as well. And he's another kind of magical character
(22:39):
that it's really transformative, I think to audiences and the
people that play him as well.
Speaker 6 (22:44):
Ragtime it was one of the was one of my
staples in college. So that soundtrack is really has really
imprinted itself. Yeah, it's wonderful.
Speaker 9 (22:54):
That's great to hear. Really, usually when I do a show,
when I record a show, and we recorded that show
five only six years ago, I think maybe usually once
I do was recording of a song, I never listened
to it again. You know, I'll maybe listen to it
once immediate laughter, just to kind of see, okay, how
did that sound? But all I can hear is, oh,
why did I do that? Why didn't I sing this?
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (23:15):
I should have taken a longer breath there, Oh I
should have done this, you know. And I can only
hear the little subtle things, and so it makes me crazy.
So I've learned, don't don't listen to recordings. But I
actually getting prepared for Rank Time, I uh, I decided
to I better listen to this this this, uh this.
It was a CD originally it was on you know,
(23:37):
I had a recording of the CD. And so I
was on the airplane going down to Washington, d C.
And I and I was listening to it, and and
then I found that I had to kind of pretend
that I was looking out the window because I found myself,
you know, crying at the beauty of the album, of
the music, at the performances, the lyrics, at the recording quantity.
(23:57):
It's a really outstanding album. And and you know, I
think I need that space to kind of be able
to even hear what I was doing without you know,
criticizing every little single syllable, you know, the thing that
I do. But that's what you know, obsessive compulsive performers do,
and you know, guilty as charged.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
Yeah, I'm glad you were able to rediscover it, because
it's it really is, in my opinion, flawless.
Speaker 7 (24:21):
You mentioned that these odd characters you play can teach
characters lessons and perspective. Do you think that's sort of
what mister Macgooch teaches, lindsay.
Speaker 9 (24:30):
Yeah, you know, I mean that's that's what why I
kind of love what I do. I think everybody has
something to teach anybody, you know, if we live our
lives with our eyes open. I think that's that's possible
for anybody to do. One of the things that I
said for many, many years, kind of going off topic,
but only a bit, is it. If you ask anybody
(24:53):
on the street, tell me this story about your life,
no matter how mundane they think their life may be,
they're going to have an incredible story to tell you.
And all you need to do is listen. And I
think if we just take more time and listen to
each other and kind of without judgment, listen to the
experiences of other people, they're just the world is an
(25:15):
amazing place. It's fascinating, it's wonderful, it's incredible, it's terrifying,
it's horrifying, it's lovely, it's you know, obscene, it's all
of these things put together. And I think as an artist,
that's what I get to really enjoy. Not only do
I get to to read the shows and perform with
(25:38):
other people that are able to bring these kinds of
characters to life, but I get to embody, you know,
somebody with some kind of sideways energy and somebody Sometimes
people that people may not like very much. I tend
to play a lot of I call them alpha male assholes.
(25:58):
Actually I don't know if I could say that on
your program or not, but I just got a thumbs
up for the listeners. But you know which, I feel
like I've kind of specialized, especially in film on stage
as well. That's a kind of character and everybody says, oh,
but you're such a nice person. You know, you're always
playing those characters, and that's the one part. You know,
there's a part of that person in all of us.
(26:21):
And for me to be able to play that, maybe
that's what allows me to be a nicer person normally,
because I get to get that those people out, you know,
when I'm playing them on television or on screen or
on stage.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
It's time for another quick break.
Speaker 7 (26:37):
When we come back, we talk about the songs in
episode four I Am Not Alone and so many Ways
with choreographers Sonya Taye and songwriters and creators Kristin Anderson
Lopez and Bobby Lopez.
Speaker 9 (27:01):
Welcome back.
Speaker 6 (27:02):
Today's song segment is really special because we not only
talk about the songs with Christian and Bobby, we also
talk about them with the show's choreographers Sonya Taye.
Speaker 10 (27:09):
Here, Sonya, I'm mostly driven by the story. I get
really driven by the words. I read in the script
and the music. I hear the lyrics, I get inspired
by my collaborator's history behind how they made the thing,
and I jump into a studio and I take all
(27:33):
that in me with me.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
But I create in silence.
Speaker 10 (27:37):
Mostly I like to cinematically think about it in my
mind of how these characters.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
Feel, and then I just start to move to this
space and this.
Speaker 10 (27:47):
You know, we all have these head characters and these
things that pull us away from being our full selves.
And so I ask myself a lot of questions, what
is that thing that pulls you away from yourself?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Look like?
Speaker 10 (28:03):
What does it feel like? How does it move? What
are those anxieties do? What's their momentum? And I just
build off of those questions and then I press play
to the music and see where it fits. I find
that that order for me just feels more inspiring, because
sometimes I feel trapped by the the elements that are
(28:25):
already created. Does that make sense like my imagination to
run wild a bit?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, hold on to your phone.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
It's time to talk about songs. For us, this was
like the first time we were like, oh, I can
see the influence of like sort of like Cabaret and
grease and different things in Chicago and Fossy, yeah, the
(28:59):
Fossy Verdon and we definitely saw that with like so
many ways. And then I Am Not Alone with sort
of breaking up the set is sort of like a great,
a great way to bring the stage onto the screen.
Can you talk about those two songs and going into that.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
The fun of I Am Not Alone is that it
all starts in like a disgusting small Kinko's, off brand
Kinko's bathroom where they've just hooked up. And let's not
get into the hygiene of that.
Speaker 8 (29:31):
Let's not get too excited.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
You always make this mistake.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
As soon as you're ignited, you.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Are a whole lot to take.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
But once the fires burn in and all the bells
are ring in, no, I know, there's no return because my.
Speaker 9 (29:54):
Hard there's aware.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
The fact that you can be in these incredibly mundane,
ordinary circumstances and have this extraordinary, universal, transcendent experience, you know,
playing with the juxtaposition of the ordinary and the extraordinary,
and how to create that on you know, in a
(30:29):
day on a film set, on a you know, not
ungenerous budget but not not unending. So using dance and
using the things that we do know to how to use,
Like the the idea of of the walls just falling
apart and then being swept up as part of this
(30:50):
ensemble that's like lifting you up into the shining lights
captured the size of the feeling.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
We were going for.
Speaker 5 (30:58):
The Other other thing musically is that it's it's sort
of the the intimate and the epic. It's the sort
of like really intimate feeling it's about. It's about a
feeling being born and then a feeling exploding. And that
that part where it does explode, where he's says I
Am not alone. That that was based on a bit
that was in the original stage piece, but it was
(31:19):
used in a completely different way and the verse was
completely new. So we took we took something that was
that was, you know, old, and we really transformed it.
It wasn't even a song and the old show was
like a bit of a song, and we made it
into its own song. And I was I was so
happy that we were able to do that because I
love that little bit that I Am Not Alone theme,
(31:40):
and that that theme, if you look through all the songs,
comes back again and again. It's in it's in everywhere,
So let's love to give.
Speaker 9 (32:02):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not alone? How I am not alone?
There's so much tough to get.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
There's so much alone.
Speaker 10 (32:19):
This is where the walls from your boundaries and the
walls of your fears are falling down. And I wanted
to emulate that. What does it feel like when he
is tender and vulnerable and saying I'm not I'm not alone.
Love is what I do now like I'm doing it.
(32:39):
I'm doing the love like I can do this, I
can handle this.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
I feel grounded, and.
Speaker 10 (32:43):
Just you see these these layers of him start to
fall off, and I was thinking, Okay, we're stuck in
a bathroom.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
How am I going to do this?
Speaker 10 (32:54):
How am I going to uh interpret this? These walls
falling and these layers and this person feeling like love
is possible? And I was I thought, oh, what if
the walls came down and what if everything comes from them?
And I love the asthetic of our show that everything
comes from They're they're moving, they're moving the pieces of
(33:16):
their life. So I didn't want it to be this
high tech thing. I wanted it to be from his
mind and from his heart, that these layers and again,
I keep repeating myself, but these walls are literally falling
down and giving.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Space for love.
Speaker 10 (33:30):
So I talked to the design team and I was like,
I want the walls to fall and so we went
through all these materials and fabrics and all of all
of revisions after revisions, and there's such geniuses they made
it happen and it was one of my favorite ones.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
I love that one so much of just.
Speaker 10 (33:51):
Like that feeling when you when you touch this thing
that feels impossible and that thing is love, you feel
like you're flying. It feels like a galaxy. And I
wanted it to feel like this, this galaxy of possibility,
we're all of the pain that you are holding on
to or that prevents you from believing in something big
(34:16):
just falls away and it gets glowy and sparkly and
soft and he's wide eyed and open and then crash
boom at the end, we go back to the fucking
the harsh reality. So yeah, that was a really beautiful
one to make.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
I love that one.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I would just like to add that. Carlos Valdez, he
sang this for his first audition, He sang this for
his age audition, and but he always nailed it like.
That's how we knew he was our Miguel, because he
was able to walk that razor edge of one, executing
(34:58):
it like a cracker Jack musical theater performer who had
graduated from Michigan. And these are hard notes to sing.
But then to add the nuances of having these this
outsize like almost ridiculous commitment to that feeling when you're like,
(35:19):
I am in love, but not make fun of himself
while doing it, Like, just commit to it like it's
the most serious thing that has ever happened to him,
and allow himself to go to the sublimely ridiculous. Is
why we knew he'd be able to go to all
of these hard places where he was gonna have to
(35:41):
be vulnerable and foolish and goofy and amazing and crying.
Speaker 9 (35:49):
Oh, there are so many ways you have not got
this through. I guess you feel things for her? What
does she feel for you? Your feelings are big all
about hers made these smaller.
Speaker 6 (36:00):
She had big feelings for one who.
Speaker 8 (36:02):
Is taller or richard or cooler.
Speaker 9 (36:05):
This has been the twin. So think this thing flew
my full feeling. Friend, You're a smart, scening kid. Keep
a lid on this blaze.
Speaker 8 (36:13):
Your feelings could burn you in so many ways, so
many ways.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You're this must have been my favorite lyric to write.
I feel like I don't know if the dun no no, no, no,
Donald don't talk came first.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
No, the beat came first.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yes, you had come up with this cool trap.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
Beat, I thought.
Speaker 5 (36:44):
I honestly don't remember, because I know, I know we had.
We had used some of the music from a from
a song that was cut from the original. It wasn't
even in the original, it was cut, but we have
a song we loved, and and Kristin Christin went and
wrote this. She loves writing doctor suit kind of Higgley
Pigglety type verse, and she's really good at it. It's
(37:06):
everybody's birthday cards and all that stuff, and and she's
just she's, you know, she's incredible, and she's she knows
all about, you know, male humiliation.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
I had so much fun writing this lyric because I
was able to go to this bizarro place with like
a kind of dirty stado masochistic doctor Seuss hip hop,
like if Hamilton and hop on Pop had had a baby.
And uh so that was really fun. And then and
(37:39):
then Bobby sort of found this spooky thing and again.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Yeah, it was kind of like we were thinking of
it as like it's an old song, it's an old
circus song, but this is the remix of that old
circus song, so we we kind of we had to
layer that on top of it. That was kind of
fun and we're not we're not hip hop artists, speak yourself.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
I also would would credit Sonia again for so the
combination of Sonya and Tommy for really allowing it to
go to this sex club, cabaret burlesque place and and
do it right with the beautiful costumes and the and
(38:26):
the makeup and the dance. Yeah, that was a crazy day.
That was a fun, crazy day.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
Oh my goodness, that was fun. That was really fun.
Speaker 10 (38:36):
Miguel has this overwhelming he has this big heart. He's
ready to go and tell her that he is ready
to go into this relationship that he gets stunted by
her saying, you just want to be friends, right, They
want to keep this cash and that that reality turned
this thought process into like and knowing that she was
(39:01):
with someone else, it's like this monster came alive.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
It turned into this like sinister.
Speaker 10 (39:10):
What's the word daggerlike cabaret of like you're never going
to be enough. She has this option and this option
and this option and all these options are everything but
you and just allow leaning into that and making that
that what that what that feels like when your ego,
(39:31):
I call it the ego swirl. It's when that ego
starts to swirl and you just feel smaller and smaller
and smaller.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
And that was the basis of it.
Speaker 10 (39:40):
So it was it was fun and also hard, uh
for Miguel to hold on to that. You know, it's
it's a hard it's it's a hard one for him
to be trapped in everything that he's not to be
shackled into feeling so small and doing that in this
like clutch hold and shackled hold and just frozen in
(40:03):
I'm never going to measure up slash cabaret slash slash,
you know, like a like an uber hotness and a
pulse of this unattainable woman and this relentless feeling of
not feeling enough.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
How did I do you nailed it?
Speaker 6 (40:24):
I was I was going to say, I love the
phrase ego swirl. I like, look you.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
It is you know, yeah, you know what I mean?
Speaker 10 (40:33):
When I say that it's really a swirl of your ego.
That's a scary place to be.
Speaker 6 (40:38):
Yeah, that definitely rings a few dolls.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Thank you so much for giving us your time.
Speaker 7 (40:48):
I'm not sure we were curious if you know about
this fan page for you about Greater Stokes Awareness.
Speaker 9 (40:54):
But no, I'm not at all telling me about Greater.
Speaker 7 (40:58):
It's a tumblr that I guess is like, you know,
dedicated to you, but it's got like a list of
songs that they want.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
You to perform and different than pressure.
Speaker 7 (41:11):
Yeah, but if you ever need a boosting confidence, you've
got a massive fan page.
Speaker 9 (41:17):
Oh that's great to know. Thank you. It's so funny.
I'll have to I'll have to check that out.
Speaker 8 (41:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (41:22):
Now maybe eight. There's my idea for my next album
now and my album title? How about that?
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 6 (41:35):
If you want to reach out to us and share
a moment where you could have burst into song, email
us it up here at straw hutmedia dot com.
Speaker 7 (41:42):
If you like the show, please rate, review and share
with your friends. See you next week.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Up Here. Down Low is a straw Hut Media production.
It's hosted by Madison Cross and Julian Goza. The show's
produced by Ryan till It's and Maggie Bulls. Our associate
producers are Lydia McMahon, Javier Salas, and Jean Lee. Our
editor is Daniel Ferrara. Big thanks to everyone at Hulu,
including Kristin Anderson, Lopez and Bobby Lopez, for their help
(42:13):
putting the show together.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
I often find myself breaking into song over really really
mundane things that just sound kind of fun. For example,
I opened up the fridge and I saw that there
were biscuits in the cheese drawer, and so I asked
out loud, why are the biscuits in the cheese drawer?
And I noticed that it sounded very musical, So then
I sang, hoopoo the biscuits in the cheese jaw. Why
(42:44):
are they biskits in the cheese jaw?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Dumb it