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May 12, 2023 40 mins
It’s the last episode! Can you believe it? There have been so many amazing guests on the show over the last 8 weeks. True icons from the theatre world and beyond.

On this episode, in honor of the season finale, Maddy and Julian are back with several of those icons to talk about episode 8, the collaborative process of putting this show together, and what the future holds for Lindsey and Miguel.

You'll hear from Mae Whitman and Carlos Valdes, Executive Producer and Director Tommy Kail, Showrunner Stephen Levensen, choreographer Sonya Tayeh, actors Andrea Burns and Scott Porter, and of course, songwriters and creators Bobby Lopez and Kristen Anderson-Lopez.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Straw Hut Media.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Unconsciously we created something that was filled with a lot
of joy and a lot of like kind of simple pleasures.
I guess I would like audiences to feel what we felt.
Hopefully some some piece of that kind of joy and
wonder and silliness and strangeness that we tried to imbue
this series with.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
I know we felt it.

Speaker 4 (00:25):
Yeah, we certainly did. Welcome to the up Here, down Low,
the official companion podcast to Who Lose Musical rom Com.
Up Here, we're your hosts, Madison Cross.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Anguline Goze, two Friends, and theater Kids.

Speaker 4 (00:42):
You're the Baker to my Baker's wife.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
And you're the Roxy to my Velma.

Speaker 4 (00:45):
And we're here to look behind the scenes with cast,
crew and creators on making musical TV magic.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Musical TV Magic.

Speaker 4 (00:53):
I told you not to sing.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
It's our last episode one pod only, Okay, Roger, can
you believe it?

Speaker 5 (01:10):
Though?

Speaker 3 (01:10):
We've talked to so many amazing people over the last
eight weeks, true icons from the theater world and beyond.

Speaker 6 (01:16):
So today, in honor of the season finale, we're back
several of them to talk about episode eight, the collaboration
process of putting this show together and what the future
holds for Lindsay and Miguel.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
We'll hear from our leads May Whitman and Carlos Faldez,
executive producer and director Tommy Koe, showrunner Stephen Levinson, choreographer
Sonya Taye, actors Andrea Burns and Scott Porter, and of course,
songwriters and creators Bobby Lopez and Kristin Anderson Lopez.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
But first, let's start with a little recap.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
I found the shoes to tap its time for the
week up. Gee, it's nice to really.

Speaker 4 (02:05):
Know someone you got it.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
We were rehearsing that so hard. I was like that,
teach me always you're really fast with like memorizing lyrics
and stuff.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
I am pretty fast with that. I can like listen
to a song on the radio and know it.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
I'm that bitch that makes up every lyric.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
No, I'm pretty good. Like I knew I knew all
the words to.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
Wop after like three Okay, yeah, well this was the
finale of the season. We got here two k the
clock struck midnight.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
They didn't make it. They broke up. Yeah, they broke up.
He's got this gorgeous apartment. I mean in New York
that thing has to cost like ten thousand a month.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Well, in two thousand, that was a meat packing facility. Sure,
there was a balloon factory.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
It was a balloon factory.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
So Lindsay is back with Mara, her amazing supermodel roommate.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
We love, we stand her. We realize she's now with
the guy who owned the apartment. He thinks, yes, he
thinks they kismetley ran into each other, but she had.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Been waiting for him.

Speaker 4 (03:05):
She was squatting in his apartment.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Right, But didn't he say that they knew each other before.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
No, he was like, it's almost like she was, you know,
waiting for it.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
And Dave asks her, Oh, do you have a boyfriend?
She says she doesn't know.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
And we see that he's got the promotion, he's got
his fancy office at work.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Does he?

Speaker 4 (03:23):
Gael does. But then there's the firewall that's been hacked,
and it turns out that it's from when he brought
down the firewall from the porn that this hacker got in.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, and so Kevin then wrings the fire alarm to
get them more out of the situation.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
Yes, or more to figure out what they're going to do,
because someone's going to get fired.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Deaf con fucked. I think is Ken said, I like it.
I love all the kevinisms BYO Skis.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
Yeah. Also finding out that he's got a wife and
twins and he's like, I didn't know you had a family,
and he's like, what.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
Does that have to do with it anything. We're here
to make money.

Speaker 4 (03:59):
We're together for three years or whatever.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
Kevin's grown on me. At first, it's like problematic coworker
and I'm like, Kevin, what are you doing Friday?

Speaker 4 (04:05):
No, we love a buddy.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
We love a buddy.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
And then they both are singing and I'm thinking he's
missing her, but jka, He's like, I hope you're having
a shitty Christmas too.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
That was like a fun like ironic use of the music.
I thought, yeah, because at first you're like, oh, sentimental
Christmas classic, we don't know and love it and he's like,
I hope you're miserable. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
So they secretly miss each other but hate each other.
And she gives her book to mister Magooch and he
likes it and he wants.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
To illustrate it, but he wants to make it pretty yes.

Speaker 4 (04:33):
And he thinks that her squirrel squid squid the squirrel,
which is the squid part squirrel is.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
Monster as well. I guess the squid squirrel combination is
what makes it a monster.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
And he's like, I can't make that cute. It's such
a hideous ard.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
I was sitting here being like a merch alert Ye
Disney Company, like, let's go, I want stuffed animals. I
went three ring binders.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
So she's got a really big thing to think about
because this could be life changing career wise. But he
doesn't see the vision. He doesn't see Squid for who
she is.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
And I smell a metaphor.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
And they reconvene. He's gonna give back her little slippers,
and he wanted her advice because he's about to throw
this guy under the bus. And then Yogurt, Sweet.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yogurt, Sweet sweet Yogurt, who's.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
Really defensive, bites her, and we find out from his
dad that behind the red door is yogurt.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yes, a few days or months died. He was standing
outside his house and his dad said, Okay, behind our
front door, here's our red front door.

Speaker 4 (05:38):
There's a big surprise, and you're gonna be really happy.
And I thought it was.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
His mom, which heartbreak.

Speaker 4 (05:43):
Yeah, but it was yogurt, and so he sort of
put all of that emotion into yogurt. But that's really
sad and sweet. And his dad is saying to him, like, well,
did you tell her that? He's like no, He's like, well,
you need to tell her that, like no matter what,
like the fact that you're so defensive with yogurt. If
maybe she knew. But she ends up giving her book
to Miguel and he reads it and it brings him

(06:05):
to tears, and he like totally gets it and sees it,
and he ends up telling his boss that it was him,
and he goes to her and tells her like, don't
change Squid, Like Squid's perfect the way that she is,
which obviously is about her, yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
But also he's right like when they finally showed the
squid to the squirrel and adorable.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
And he sees her. He ends up being honest, and
then they're sort of realizing, well, man, this person really
does see me, and I see her, And we go
back to that song that g is nice to really
know someone, and then it goes into like will I
ever know you? Those sort of meld together and it's

(06:46):
realizing you can't fully but you can try, and you.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Could hope to know someone fully, but you never will know.
But it's so beautiful to hope you can.

Speaker 4 (06:55):
Of course, it's because that.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Is the basis of any intimate relationship.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
Yeah, then the voices are getting in their head, they're
running away from them, and then they just realize, you know,
we get each other and we're going to figure this out.
And then she burps in his face. She's been having
some heartburn and been nauseous.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
M Maddie called it first because she's a woman.

Speaker 4 (07:17):
Jesus Mary and Joseph, she's pregnant.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
Dropped out gorgeous.

Speaker 4 (07:23):
Totally, which is a great lead into if they're going
to do a season two about a baby, because you
know who you don't know a baby.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, what do you mean you don't know baby?

Speaker 4 (07:34):
I mean they're not going to know, like how they're
going to discover how to be parents together. But yeah,
I think that it made sense that it ended with
them sort of coming to terms with the fact that
it's like, Okay, it's not this perfect scenario.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
I also loved the reveal of them singing and they're
both on the same train. Yes, I was in a
classic like rom comm reveal where like everyone clears and
it's like the Red Sea Parting. I went to wear
that is that is a fine rock, fine rock. I
never saw that rock when I was living in New York.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
I mean, she's got to be on the Upper West Side.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
That's a good guess. Yeah, that's what she's giving me. Yeah,
she goes to the matinees.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
I loved that final fugue where everyone did like a
reprise of their song Shiger Tark. That was a very
satisfying FuG I think I'm calling that the right thing. Sure,
when like there are all these different voices seeing different things,
I'll take it. I don't know about them, but I
see a big future for Squid the squirrel. She'll be

(08:32):
able to get that maybe through college with a book
like that.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
And like great use of that tale having suckers on it.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. Oh, this was so fun,
so fun.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
I got some questions you. It's time for the interview.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Throughout the season, we've seen Lindsay and Miguel fall in love,
fall out of love, and fall back in love again,
all while becoming who they really are. Here's Kristin Anderson,
Lopez and Bobby Lopez.

Speaker 7 (09:03):
There are certain motifs associated with the question of can
you ever know someone? There are certain motifs associated with
Lindsay's arc, which is all about becoming the person you
truly are instead of the person everyone thinks you should be,
So her journey towards authenticity has its own motifs. And
then Miguel's journey is all about sort of allowing himself

(09:28):
to be open after being so hurt and fighting the
toxic masculinity of like don't ever show your emotions and
don't ever show your big feelings. They all have motifs,
and then there's an elegance in the size of the
band that we were using.

Speaker 8 (09:45):
We decided we made a very conscious choice to stick
with a band and almost make an album with the
same band in the same studio, so that everything would
feel in relation to each other, except for maybe the
A bit mini opera that has its own Yes, it's
its own instrumentation.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
I like that you call it a mini opera. That's
exactly what it feels like. So you guys have been
working as collaborators for a really long time, but now
you're working with a whole team of collaborators. What was
that experience like, oh, we.

Speaker 9 (10:19):
We work with teams of collaborators all the time. We're
always part of the story process. We're always part of
the you know, in musical theater, the songwriters and the
book writer are kind of the people that begin the
whole thing, and that's the core. And this was no
different than that. We had a group text. Tommy was Tommy.
I loved Tommy's what he said to the cast always

(10:40):
was like, when you're talking to one of us, you're
talking to all of us.

Speaker 10 (10:44):
Nothing on this scale happens in a vacuum. It is
a collaboration, you know, of five people, then twenty people,
then forty people, then you know, down to the person
who's running crafty and the person who's sewing the costumes.
Every single aspect of this story is touched by eight

(11:07):
hundred different humans putting their energy and talent and creativity
into it.

Speaker 6 (11:13):
One of those people was, of course, choreographers Sonya Taye.

Speaker 11 (11:18):
When I think back, it was such a fun summer.
You know, making art is hard. COVID was hard, is hard.
The time frame with all so much hard, but so
much fun and gentle, humble collaboration, like really fruitful collaboration.

Speaker 12 (11:39):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 11 (11:40):
And the bond we all carried with each other, and
the ambition of my colleagues, and the openness of the
actors and the excellence in the ensemble of the dancers,
so everything was fun and everything was challenging. I think
it's such a strange and beautiful piece that I haven't

(12:03):
seen on the screen before, but it's such a unique experience.
And the eternal sunshine of the Spollas mind was one
of my big inspirations of the summer, of just to
move and how you move and shift your world. And
it's very tactile and big hearted and earnest and wacky
all at the same time. I just it was a

(12:25):
really fun summer and I want to do more with them.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Here's actress May Whitman, who played lindsay, if you don't
know that already, why are you even here?

Speaker 13 (12:37):
Everybody worked so hard, like Sonia is a genius, Will
and Ali your geniuses. All the dancers are so brilliant,
like I mean really, like I can barely, like you
look at me. I'm laying down on a pillow with
my one eye clothes like I can barely, And they're
like flying around like for hours and high heels, Like
I was like truly in awe of them, and I

(13:00):
think like watching them in that number, and then also
the I Am Not Alone. I just like loved the
all the set stuff with like the set flying apart
and all that. I thought that was really cool and
I loved so I loved watching that. But I mean, honestly,
for me, filming I won't even go there because it's
a spoiler, but filming the finale, it just felt like

(13:23):
really powerful, Like I remember listening to it and like
actually getting emotional, and it just it's a real beautiful
culmination of this entirely huge journey that we went on
as people and as characters, and feeling it all kind
of tied together in this package and having everybody be
a part of it, it just it felt like really

(13:45):
over overwhelmingly emotional and it was like a beautiful time
in my life too, And I just I have a
really special fondness for that.

Speaker 6 (13:54):
It seems like everyone had that kind of warm, fuzzy
feeling with this show.

Speaker 4 (13:58):
Here's the Tiger Shark himself, Scott Boarder.

Speaker 14 (14:03):
I got to say, you know, being in television for
as long as I have and being outside of the
very close knit circle that I know New York can be.
They're very protective of their own, they're very you know,
they can be somewhat intimidating, I think when you're dealing
with I mean Tony nominated, Tony Award winning actors and actresses.

(14:25):
And I could not have had a more incredible and
accepting experience than I did with the cast that we
had on this show. Not only were they like accepting,
they were aggressively charming and so inviting. And I don't
know how to say enough about the entire cast. And

(14:47):
you know, I think that comes from a very clear
vision by the creative team. But I also think it
comes from relationships that people have built and fostered and
taken care of for years and years and years. I
know a lot of the people in this show had
worked together and known each other the greater part of
twenty thirty years, and this was their moment to work together.
And for somebody to come from LA like me, who

(15:08):
I didn't know if I was going to fit in,
or somebody like Amelia who this is kind of one
of her first things, they could not have been more
kind and more welcoming, and so I just consider it
just such a high honor to be sharing the screen
with people like Brian Stokes, Mitchell and Katie Finnerin, and
you know, May and Carlos are incredible. But I was

(15:29):
just so impressed by all the veterans that are on
this show and how they say never meet your heroes.
But I got to say on this show, I'm so
glad I did.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
We're going to take a quick break when we come back.
We'll dive into our song segment with the lopez Is
and talk about the songs of episode eight. A Christmas
prayer and can I ever know.

Speaker 5 (15:51):
You hold on to your phone. It's time to talk
about songs.

Speaker 15 (16:19):
I don't do you hear too warm my winter nights.
I don't buy into the myth of missile Tom. It's
important to remember that December is just December.

Speaker 16 (16:39):
Then it's over and by.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
New Year's I'll be fine.

Speaker 16 (16:45):
But as flurries swirl midair, I stop and say a
silent prayer. I hope your Christmas sucks as much as my.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
I think that every body we'll hopefully be adding to
their Christmas blaylest a Christmas prayer.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
It'll be Christmas cannon in no time.

Speaker 9 (17:07):
You knew that this would not come at any time
close to Christmas. It's like the least Christmas relevant moment.
But hopefully, hopefully people remember it coming.

Speaker 10 (17:15):
I know, remember it on all you TikTokers. Just remember
it come come Christmas season. You can sing it cryptically
to that person who broke your heart.

Speaker 4 (17:24):
And God bless you for giving us that we did
need it.

Speaker 9 (17:29):
It's funny, you know, the more the older you get
and the more you become you have to make Christmas
and be in charge of Christmas for others and host
the big family get togethers, the less you even remember
Christmas ever being a positive event.

Speaker 10 (17:44):
Christmas does become awfully stressful for the makers of Christmas.
Other than Santa, of course.

Speaker 4 (17:52):
I was gonna say, Santa me o. Everybody always forgets
missus Claus. Where's her moment?

Speaker 17 (17:57):
True?

Speaker 10 (17:57):
Yeah, God blessed missus Clause. I have a I have
a different song about a hand for missus Claus because
missus Claus works so hard. But what I like about
the music of this song is the jingle bells and
the sleigh bells.

Speaker 9 (18:14):
That's immediate Christmas vibe, right yeah, and the string arrangements
by Tom kitt are just glorious. I think they're so
they're so old timey and wonderful. We really enjoyed writing
this song, you know, musically it was it was, it
was just it just kind of came.

Speaker 10 (18:31):
Yeah, we always called it the somewhere out There slot
and we're like, oh, this is the somewhere out there
or there was that follow that Bird. There was like
a Sesame Street movie where Big Bird was singing to
there were in two separate places but missing each other.
And this is just sort of a weird way into

(18:54):
that idea.

Speaker 4 (18:55):
Yeah, when that was when it was happening, I was like, Oh,
he's missing her. He's like, hope, we're having a shitty time.
I was like, oh, never mind, never mind.

Speaker 9 (19:03):
Well what's the difference really?

Speaker 4 (19:06):
Yeah, things exist.

Speaker 10 (19:08):
Yeah, and you know, Bobby and I definitely were broken
up during one Christmas season, so I think we did
the Christmas.

Speaker 9 (19:17):
I started therapy.

Speaker 18 (19:20):
Well let's celebrate that. It was the second Christmas we
were together broken up for me yea. But it led
to the song fine Fine Line. So that worked out
because I had broken up with him, uh and said
like there's a fine fine line between them and a
waste of time We're gone well, and then he wrote

(19:42):
it into his musical.

Speaker 4 (19:43):
I like the fact that you guys are are both
lyricists that like, I like the idea of your arguments.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Sorry, just like, oh yeah, oh yeah, it.

Speaker 3 (19:59):
Was my spine sid.

Speaker 9 (20:22):
Never Ever, what was cool about that was we didn't
know how to end the whole thing. But we got
this idea that we would take a trope from Broadway
and a trope from television and kind of put them

(20:43):
together in that we would write a song that would
be the main title theme, like kind of like I'll
be There for You from Friends, and then you know
how I'll be there for You as a you know,
when you watch it on the show, it's pretty short,
and then there's a radio version that's longer. We thought,
wouldn't it be cool if the finale they started singing
the main title to each other and then it kept

(21:06):
going and you realize, oh, there's more. This song is
longer and and and that's how it started. And then
we got the idea to bring all the all the
head characters back. That would almost be like Hard Day's
Night where the beginning of Hard Day's Night where they're
running away from their fans almost being chased by the voices,
and what happens when the voices catch them. That's the

(21:27):
that's sort of the weird transcendent moment where they all
start singing, right.

Speaker 10 (21:32):
You know, we always thought about it as a moment
where this whole show you've never you've never seen them
sing together, not once, and they certainly can't hear each
other's voices. But in this moment, something changes and there's
a blur, and in this moment, for just a moment,

(21:53):
they can see each other's stuff and kind of accept it,
kind of go like, Okay, you know, you're always going
to have this please like me voice in your head,
and you're always going to have this girl who says
you don't belong, and you're always going to have this gut,
you know. And I see all of that junk, and
I still love you, and we're singing together, we're saying

(22:15):
we're on the same page. And in the acceptance of
of all those voices, they can move and they can
they can walk out of it. Now I'm getting a
text from a child who needs to go to a doctor,
So Bobby, you take it for a second.

Speaker 9 (22:32):
Now, know that I guess the idea of I can
never know you is can I ever know you? Is that?

Speaker 18 (22:40):
Yes?

Speaker 9 (22:40):
I think our answer to that is no, I can't
ever know you. I'll never fully know you, but that
we get the rest of our lives to keep meeting
each other and keep learning about each other. And and
that's a good thing. That's why. That's why our lives
are so long, that's why marriage is so long. That's why,
that's why we believe in this, this pursuit of connection,

(23:03):
and that's where the heart of this whole thing wants
to live. So that's it was. It was a fun
moment to discover that and and write that song. I
just found myself just kind of pounding it out a
lot and just screaming it. Yeah, a lot of it was.
It was a really enjoyable song, right, And.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
It's also interesting that that's also the first time they're
able to escape the voices, as you said, like you
literally see all of the voices running past the wall,
where where Lindsay and Miguel have been able to kind
of like sequester themselves and be be separate. Yeah, you
sense their unity and you sense their the first time
they've kind of been able to detach themselves from the voices. Yeah,

(23:42):
which is so powerful and satisfying to you to hear
that song and it's in its full realization totally.

Speaker 10 (23:49):
Well, thanks, Julian. You know, there is that moment of
trust when you can finally start trusting the other person
more than you trust your own mind, even if only
for a second, and in that trust, start showing them like,
there's this voice that I've trusted more than you for

(24:11):
the last nine months, but I'm gonna I'm gonna put
her out there for you to see and to hear
what you think about this, and then you can kind
of like dissolve it for a second until a new
one pops up.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Because it will inevitably come back. Yeah.

Speaker 9 (24:29):
Never Yeah, that's what we kept saying, like, well, really,
can we let them see each other's voices? Can we
let them even ever for a moment to feed them?
And yeah, you do. You have these moments where you
suddenly feel it one with the universe, but it goes
away in about ninety seconds.

Speaker 17 (24:46):
Something that I thought was incredibly smart of Christen and
Bobby is the way the main titles function.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
This is executive producer and director Tommy Kale.

Speaker 17 (24:55):
When you meet that song in episode three, and then
you're hearing it all the way through, and then it
comes back and become is the end of the season.
I just thought was such an intelligent and enjoyable and
cool way to take the language of television and the
language of theater and put them together. I just like, oh, wow,
we've heard that song six times and then you hear
it again and it gives you more than you knew existed.

(25:17):
I just thought like that, that's such a That's such
an expressive way to sort of, I think, say, in
a really focused spot, what the show is doing. You
know this, you know more than you think you did more,
and then there's still something else to explore, and so
I just I really loved that. I thought that was
such a great way to end this this season.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
Yeah, it is such a fun surprise to hear the
whole melody when it's been teased throughout.

Speaker 9 (25:45):
And then wait, there's more lyrics.

Speaker 17 (25:46):
I don't know there were these lyrics.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah, totally, it's time for another quick break when we
come back. What's next for Lindsay mcguil and baby, what's

(26:13):
next for your characters? What's next?

Speaker 12 (26:15):
Valencia might go, that's a baby.

Speaker 13 (26:22):
That's an areas baby, and.

Speaker 6 (26:24):
Just a quick little reminder that's May Whitman and Carlos
speldas the stars of the series.

Speaker 13 (26:29):
I mean, I don't know, we are pregnant.

Speaker 12 (26:33):
I mean, like obviously, well.

Speaker 13 (26:36):
That's big, that's big news. And I feel like I
would love to work on the show forever because real
life is never worring, and it goes on and on.
I mean, that's like the crazy thing about this. It's
not like you get to a point where you're like, Okay,
no story left to tell. It's like each phase of
life gets even more complicated and fascinating, and I feel like,
you know, these people who are still getting to know

(26:58):
themselves and each other are now like thrust into this
situation where they're still trying to build who they are
as individuals, build their relationship while also having this time
pressure of being like we want to be vaguely ready
to bring another human being into this world and sort
of like achieving that balance and like leveling up under
that time pressure I think would make a really fascinating story.

Speaker 12 (27:22):
Yeah, my answer is I don't know. I mean, you're
gonna have to wait till season two comes out. That's
my answer.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
I mean, I think, you know, when we first pitched
the series, like we had this idea that what we
really wanted to do was something that would be about
the life of a relationship.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
This is show runner Stephen Levinson.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
So that you know, you can't It seemed to us
you can't play the will they won't they forever? Like
in a TV series that becomes really hard to sustain
because they will.

Speaker 12 (27:56):
You know.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
So it felt like if you're going to build a
rom com, like it's just hard to keep those stakes
a lot. So we were like, well, what if the
first season is that, but then the second season doesn't
have to be about or the third season. Instead, they
can be about different stages in a relationship and different
the different challenges that come in the way that those
challenges force you to hear different voices in your head

(28:17):
and to kind of go back to different parts of
your childhood. And so I think the future could be
about parenthood, marriage, you know, what happens when you get
success or failure, what happens with like serious loss between
a couple and our grand ambition. Like when we first
started talking about this, I remember we talked a lot

(28:39):
about does this really need to take place in nineteen
ninety nine, and I remember we talked a lot about like, well,
what if we said it in present day? It was
literally it was like June twenty twenty. We were like, well,
what does present day meet?

Speaker 7 (28:52):
Like?

Speaker 2 (28:53):
We had no idea what present day was or what
it would look like, but we did think like, well,
what if the series eventually got to twenty two? Funny
and you could have a season that took place in
that insanity that we were all living. Because it felt
like for those of us who were in couples, and
I guess all of us who worked on the series
were in that initial stage, you know, the stresses and

(29:15):
the challenges of being in lockdown were like a whole
news dan for a relationship and felt like, oh, that's
that's kind of interesting to be.

Speaker 17 (29:21):
For Without giving anything away, you know, one of the
things we did talk about was the idea of how
we moved through time.

Speaker 6 (29:28):
And here's executive producer and director Tommy Cale again on
what the future might.

Speaker 17 (29:32):
Hold, you know, what that next chapter would be and
where we meet them. If this was about their intersection
and their convergence, you know, where would you drop the
needle on the next story, and I'm someone who always
believes in trying to get into the scene at the
latest possible moment, you know, just to kind of like,
you know, height the tension and the drama there. So

(29:55):
you know, I don't know exactly where we would land,
but I love the idea of finding the most complicated
the time for the two of them and really like
flipping the calendar pages, you know, and seeing where that
would take us. But that's obviously something that the writers
have lots of. You know, We've had lots of conversations
about it, but I do hope we get a chance
to be back with them because I feel like we
really you know, there's there's a feeling about this show,

(30:17):
and there's a feeling for the people that are finding
the show. There's a reason why everybody's watching Mollie immediately,
you know. It's just like you just want to know.
And I wasn't when we first started talking about it.
We were thinking, like, how do we want it to
come out? Is it the full batch dropping?

Speaker 7 (30:31):
Is it not?

Speaker 17 (30:32):
And I'm so happy that this is how it came
out because it just feels like the way that the
musical score is such a classic score with real theme
and motif and and that that you know plays in
such you know, support with where these characters are going.
It feels like getting all of it and understanding where

(30:52):
it goes is something that it's really to the benefit
of it, you know, Like I just think, you know,
when you're telling a romantic comedy, like like they will
or they won't, like they will, because otherwise there's no show.
So if it's about that, it's about the ride, you know,
and it's kind of nice to be able to take
the whole ride. Thank you both for watching and for
doing this too. It means so much to us. And
like you know, you both know, you make stuff, you

(31:13):
put it out there and you never know where it's
going to ricochet or bounce. But it's just it's really
fun to be able to talk about it. And it was, yeah,
it was just it was it was a time last
summer where every day we kind of looked to each other,
we said, can you believe they're letting us do this?
And it just really felt like, uh, you know, coming
back from COVID and and the fact that we were
back in doing it and making our incredibly strange musical

(31:36):
on television for a platform that we watched, you know,
like we were like Hulu people, and it just I
can't believe it's on the homepage, you know, Like that
still sort of blows my mind. So I really appreciate
I really appreciate you all putting your effort and your
talent into it.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah, something we've been talking about a lot was sort
of again like going back to how we first made
this show in June twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (31:58):
This again is showrunner Steven Levinson.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
We were all pretty miserable. The news was so bleak,
and it just got weaker as time went on, and
I think unconsciously we created something that was filled with
a lot of joy and a lot of like kind
of simple pleasures, something that would bring a smile to
our faces every day, like as we've logged onto Zoom

(32:21):
for the you know, twelve hour of the day, like
what was still making us laugh, what was still resonating,
and what felt warm and inviting and human in a
world where that felt in short supply, And so I
guess I would like audiences to feel what we felt,
hopefully some some piece of that kind of joy and
wonder and silliness and strangeness that we we tried to

(32:44):
imbue this series with I know.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
We felt it. Yeah, we certainly swallows in a nice blanking.

Speaker 4 (32:49):
Yeah we watched it.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
We got to Yes, we got.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
Screeners of it. And one of the days that we watched,
we watched like the first happened in the second half,
and it was like really rainy and New York were
just like bundled watching it.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
We're both like sipping siders.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah that was not on purpose, but but I think
I think that is what got us through the pandemic.
Weirdly was coming back to this series, Like nobody wanted
to work on something that was dour and you know,
gloomy about the end of the world. Like we wanted
to write something that felt hopeful and with two people
that you could really like because we had to spend

(33:22):
a lot of time with them. I think the other
thing that I want people to take away from the
series are all of the performances, but especially these two
performances at the center, because that was the other obviously
missing piece of this Carlos and May who are just
extraordinary in this series, and we're such incredible fines, each

(33:44):
in their own way. Like as we started to cast
the show and we kind of put together the list
of what we were looking for in these actors. He
was just insane. I mean, it was just like, well,
we're definitely not going to find all of this in
one person, and we somehow found all of that and
more in the two actors who just brought all of
themselves to this series and came in already so equipped

(34:07):
and already so prepared, and yet kept working throughout and
working harder and harder and just killing it. And to me, like,
one of the things I love so much about this
series is the way that they brought these characters to life.
And I'm in love with the two of them as
these characters, and I hope people find them as as

(34:27):
wonderful and as captivating as I do. And my mom does.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
No, we definitely did. We also got to chat with
them and we're completely just in love with them as
human beings too.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Yeah, they're pretty great.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Yeah, are great. My mom also binged going back to
Moms really quickly. My mom binged the whole series so
quickly once she figured out I was doing this podcast.

Speaker 6 (34:48):
Sense her praise And here's what May Whitman and Carlos
Veldes had to say about what they hope the audience
takes away from the show.

Speaker 13 (34:55):
You do this one, Carlos, because I feel the same
as you.

Speaker 12 (34:59):
I hope that people can come to a healthier understanding
of how how their defense mechanisms work.

Speaker 19 (35:08):
Essentially, that there are these voices in our heads that
are constantly critiquing us or telling us what to do,
but they're doing that because they're trying to protect us
because of something that happened in our past, or a
series of things that happened repetitively in our past.

Speaker 12 (35:27):
And if we can come to an understanding within ourselves
as to what these voices consist of, and why they're
piping in and at what moments, and if they're trying
to help us or hurt us, and when to say
that's actually really helpful and when to say thank you
for saying that. No, thank you, I'm going to leave
you to the side. I think we can be that

(35:49):
much closer as individuals too, I don't know, just having
a healthier relationship with ourselves. And even though this is
a musical and it's you know, and it's a it's
a feel good story and it's a rom com, I
think there's something really really deep in here with regards
to the message that people can can get out of

(36:11):
watching these two characters trying to overcome their own self
imposed obstacles. So I hope, I hope, at the very
least like it can allow viewers to just get in
touch with themselves in a healthier and more significant.

Speaker 13 (36:28):
Way and be vulnerable. I feel like I spent my
whole life like thinking there was like a right way
of doing things in a wrong way, and I was
constantly looking for like the cheat code, like you know,
Like I was someone who was like I would like
play a video game and like look up the like
walk through as I was playing it, and I was like, ooh,
I don't want to make the wrong decision. I mean,

(36:49):
I you know, if someone else can say the answers,
I might as well just you know, do that. And
like I think, like looking externally for answers that don't
necessarily feel right within yourself, You're always gonna find yourself
in a place where you look down, you don't know
where you are, you don't know what the foundation is
you've built. You can't find the next stepping stone or

(37:09):
the one you came from. And I think like the
concept of not replacing your own infrastructure with someone else's.
And even though it's terrifying and there are all these
voices that you know, we might take as you can't
do that, it really is like they're not there to
to tell you what to do or how to how

(37:29):
to actually move forward on your life path. They're just
there to make you aware of all the different things
in your brain and the trying to keep you safe.
And like I think, you know, not being not hating
your defense mechanisms, not you know, like completely ignoring them.
It's more like turning to face them and saying, I

(37:51):
hear you, and I appreciate what you're saying and why
you're saying it, and I remember where you came from,
and I know I acknowledge the moment that made you
feel like you had to be aware of this in
order to keep me safe. Right now, it doesn't apply,
but I hear you and I see you, and you
can like take a seat on the bench and it's okay.
And I think, like then it just allows you to
sort of like develop your own agency and trust your

(38:13):
own intuition as far as like how you actually want
to move forward. And then even if you don't know
what the answer is on the other side. At least
you know that, like, you'll be right with yourself when
you get there, so no matter what happens, you'll be like, well,
I'm glad that I'm stuck with me this me because
we can I have faith that we can figure it
out together.

Speaker 20 (38:34):
Yeah, I feel like, Yeah, thanks for listening.

Speaker 6 (38:51):
If you like the show, please rate, review and share
with your friends. Also, stay tuned and subscribed because there
was some solid tea that didn't make it into the episodes,
and we're planning to share those bits on the feed.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
So sip up all that tea. If you want to
reach out to us to say hi, or to share
a moment where you could have burst into song, email
us at up here at straw hutmedia dot com. We
still may feature.

Speaker 4 (39:12):
You up Here. Down Low is a straw Hut Media production.
It's hosted by Madison Cross and Julian Goza. The show
it's produced by Ryan Tillotson and Maggie Bulls. Our associate
producers are Lydia McMahon, Javier Salas, and Jean Lee. Our
editor is Daniel Ferreira. Big thanks to everyone at Hulu,

(39:35):
including Kristin Anderson, Lopez and Bobby Lopez for their help
putting the show together.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
Thanks for listening so long.

Speaker 6 (39:49):
Farewell javitson good Night, good night, good no

Speaker 3 (40:00):
Art no oh God.
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