EP 72: Micronutrients, Medication Tapers, And Real Recovery with David Stephan, VP of Truehope

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Consistency is key.
A hundred percent.
In relation to the overallsuccess, consistency is one of
the main ingredients that cannotbe removed from the process.
Otherwise, failure is what mostpeople can come to expect.
And so, yes, uh absolutelyconsistency on the medications
while you're withdrawing fromthem.

(00:20):
Otherwise, unless you're youlike, you know, going down rocky
roads, it gets a little morebumpy.
But you know, the moreconsistency, consistent you are
with it, the smoother thetransition will be off of the
medication.
But then also obviously theconsistency on the Empire Plus,
because as you're coming offthat medication, what's
replacing it?
What's generating the supportwithin the brain, making you

(00:41):
function?
And so the Empire Plus isabsolutely crucial.

SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Welcome to the Upside of Bipolar, where we
uncover the true sources ofbipolar symptoms and share
proven tools for recovery.
I'm your host, MichelleReitinger, number one
international best-sellingauthor of the Upside of Bipolar
Seven Steps to Heal YourDisorder.
In this podcast, I bring yousolo insights from my journey
and guest interviews withleading researchers and experts.

(01:09):
Join us to transform chaos intohope and reclaim your life.
Let's heal together.

(01:57):
As such, David feels it aprivilege and a duty to share
the knowledge that not onlychanged his life, but has also
allowed for well over 100,000others to transform their lives
as well.
David, I can't wait for thisepisode.
I'm like so excited to talk toyou today.
Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 (02:15):
Well, thank you again for having me on.
And I think I need to rewrite mybio because it sounds like how I
speak, and not everybody speaksthat way.
So it's a bit of a tonguetwister sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
Well, it's it's great.
And I am I if anybody islistening to this as a
standalone episode and youhaven't heard the previous two
episodes, please go back andlisten to them.
The reason we broke this up intothree episodes, and they're
actually quite long episodes, weprobably could have broken it up
even more.
But the first episode that Iinterviewed you on, well, this
is in this most recent three.

(02:46):
I interviewed you a couple ofyears ago for the first time,
but in this most recent three,we started with the story of
True Hope and how thismicronutrient was disc, you
know, the micronutrienttreatment was discovered, you
know, how the company cameabout, you know, some of the
challenges you faced.
And then in the second episode,we talked about why
micronutrients are so effectiveand helping people resolve the

(03:08):
underlying sources of theirsymptoms that lead to a bipolar
diagnosis, and not just bipolar,but ADHD, OCD, even
schizophrenia, thatmicronutrients are so effective.
And we talked about why theywere so effective.
And so today we are going totalk about what that symptoms
actually mean.

(03:28):
When somebody starts to takemicronutrients, a lot of times
because we have created uh uhcategories, we have created
diagnoses, disorders out ofclusters of symptoms, we have
pathologized these symptoms tomake pe and people then believe
that they are experiencing adisease or an underlying

(03:50):
etiology when they experiencethese symptoms.
And so the problem that thatcreates is that when somebody
starts to take themicronutrients and their brain
starts to heal and they stillare experiencing symptoms, they
freak out and think they're forbipolar people who are
struggling with bipolar, theythink, oh no, my bipolar is
coming back, or oh no, thisisn't working.
And that's probably most oftennot true.

(04:11):
In my experience, and you haveyou know way more experience
than I do, because you've beendoing this for over 20 years,
but but in my experience, what Iactually see is that people
don't understand the symptomsthey're experiencing and what
they actually what's actuallyhappening.
And so today I want to talkabout the different types of
symptoms you will experience ifyou start taking micronutrients,

(04:33):
what they actually mean, and howthat actually often is a sign
that the micronutrients areworking.
So we're gonna, this is gonna bea real I'm super excited about
this conversation because I Isee this objection often.
People will say, I, you know, Itried micronutrients and they
didn't work for me.
And I always want to say, let'stalk about that, because
micronutrients aren't amedicine.

(04:56):
It's just something naturallyoccurring that our brain needs,
and you're just giving yourbrain what it needs to function
in a healthy way.
It's not like it's not like apill or a medicine, a
medication.
It's just something your brainnaturally needs, and you're just
making sure that your brain'sgetting enough of it.
You know, often most people arenot getting enough, right?

SPEAKER_00 (05:14):
Exactly.
I mean, when we put it in theclassification of essential
nutrients, meaning that it'sactually essential to the very
functions that keep you alive,it's important to to put it in
that that um that category.
Because when somebody says, Oh,I tried micronutrients and then
they didn't work, well, whatdidn't work about them, right?
What what what what was actuallytaking place or why didn't they

(05:36):
work?
Because micronutrients alwayswork if they get to to where
they need to go.
Plain and simple, right?
Like there's no they don't work,they work.
It's just what's going on eitherin your gut health or what was
conflicting, where you, youknow, and and that's why we go
through limiting factors withour support protocols where we

(05:57):
will, in essence, if if they'renot working or something pops up
randomly, we start to to gothrough like a kind of like a
detective and and finally figureout that's what's going on.
And that matches the symptoms.
Here we go, right?
And then we're able to thenaddress it, correct it, and get
it working again.
Because micronutrients alwayswork if they are where they need

(06:20):
to be.

SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
Right.
And and so let's start.
I think the first thing we needto talk about actually is how
psychotropic drugs actually workin the brain, like what what
these different categories ofdrugs are actually doing, and
why if you're taking them stilland you start taking an adequate
level of micronutrition, why youcould actually start
experiencing symptoms?
Like what's actually happeningin the brain?
So let's start first withthere's a lot here, so I don't

(06:44):
want to like ask you thesemultifaceted questions that are
complicated.
Let's start with the drugcategories.
So let's I don't want to getinto too much detail about
these, but let's just kind oftalk about general drug
categories and what's actuallyhappening with those drugs.

SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
Fantastic.
And I'll just write off the bathere, I'll say I'm nowhere near
as much of an expert in relationto how the drugs work in the
brain.
Whereas if you were listened tothe previous podcast, you'd hear
that I understand a fair bitabout how nutrients are working
in the brain.
I tend to focus more on thesolutions than the problems, if
you will.
And unfortunately, in thissense, the drugs are oftentimes

(07:19):
the problem.
So I'll just put kind of putthat out as a caveat that don't
expect the same out of me, uhthe same level of intellect in
relation to exactly what thedrugs are doing in the brain
compared to what themicronutrients are doing in the
brain.
So uh general classes ofmedications that we work with.
The first thing is as an overallumbrella, we're talking about
psychiatric medications.

(07:41):
Those are the medications thatwe've had to, over the last
almost three decades, developsupport protocols to help people
come off of them safely andeffectively, because the vast
majority of the people coming tous were on a psychiatric
medication or a number ofpsychiatric medications.
So it's a pretty broad sweepingumbrella.
In essence, that's just moodaltering or brain altering

(08:03):
medications, is really what thatis, that are working on the
central nervous system, thattype of thing that are having
that type of impact.
Whereas, you know, you have yourheart medications, that type of
thing that we haven't had todeal with as much, right?
Because, well, it hasn't beensomething that's been
conflicting.
Although we do see peoplesometimes will reduce down or
completely off of othermedications like that, just by

(08:26):
simply taking the propernutrition, but it has never been
of the concern that thepsychiatric medications have
been.
We have our anti-anxietymedications, uh, we have our
antidepressants, we have justgeneral mood stabilizers,
anti-seizure medications oranti-convulsants, your
stimulants, which may not be aswell known in relation to that

(08:46):
classification of medications,but that's your Adderall,
concerta, dexidrin, eritalin,that type of thing, you know,
anything for ADHD.
And then antipsychotics, whichis obviously what you're going
to find with people that are uhin psychosis or schizophrenia,
they're gonna be on them.
Um, and then the the one thatoftentimes people won't classify

(09:08):
in the psychiatric medications,but it's working along the same
levels is your sleep aids aswell.
And those can actually be reallyquite nasty to try to come off
of.
And once again, you know, it'sworking on a similar level
because you have some of thesemedications working to affect
serotonin levels, but melatonincomes from serotonin.

(09:30):
And so when you're taking asleep aid, you're working on
almost the same level.
It's just that it's you know,trying to focus in on more on
the melatonin aspect.
And so the addictive nature ofthe of a sleep aid is actually
quite high compared to, let'ssay, even just a general mood
stabilizer or a simplisticantidepressant, if you will.
And then uh in that whole mix,you also have your

(09:54):
benzodiazepines, which are aboutas bad as they come, really, is
what we what we found.
And it's not just us that havefound that I want to kind of
digress for a brief moment here.
We ended up getting our hands onthis little booklet that was
issued by Health Canada back inlike 1976, if I recall properly.

(10:16):
Small booklet, but a bookletnonetheless, specifically on the
use of benzodiazepines when theywere first being introduced to
the marketplace.
And it was a booklet that wasbeing given out to doctors, an
educational booklet.
And within that booklet, therewas a very strict instruction
specifying that thesemedications were not to be taken

(10:38):
for a duration beyond two weeks.
The reason why is because of howaddictive they were, and and it
was easily identified howaddictive they were.
Yet we see that that bookletdisappeared out of circulation.
We see that that warning wouldno longer be communicated or
adhered to, and people have beenon benzos for years, and now you

(11:00):
try to get them off, and it isit it's an uphill battle.
It's a lot of work, it's wellworth it, but it's a lot of work
in relation to people that havebeen on these medications for an
extended period of time.

SPEAKER_01 (11:15):
Yeah, and one of the things that I want to I'm gonna
say here is uh Professor JoannaMoncrief, I've interviewed twice
on my podcast and has donetremendous work in helping
people actually understand whatwhat these drugs do, how they
work in the brain, and and howto safely taper off of them.
She talks about how all of thosenames for drug categories are

(11:36):
actually marketing names.
They are not they are notaccurate as far as what is
actually happening.
They are used as a marketingtool to deceive people, really,
into believing that this isgoing to, it's anti-anxiety, so
it's going to stop my anxiety,or it's antidepressant, so it's
going to stop my depression, orantipsychotic, it's going to
stop my psychosis.

(11:57):
And she said that there is noscientific validate valid,
scientifically valid reason forthose names.
They are simply marketing tools.
So that people, when they takethem, they get this idea that
they are that, you know, thatthis drugs are doing something
that they really are not, thatthere is more scientific
validity to the drug than thanthey have based on even the

(12:19):
testing.
Right.
And so, and one of the things Iam going to mention this here
too.
The more I learned aboutmedications and how they worked,
the more I've been able to goback into my story and look at
the symptoms that I wasexperiencing and start
recognizing like my very firstmajor anxiety attack that put me
in the hospital for eight hoursthinking I was having a heart

(12:40):
attack, and the doctors eventhought I was having a heart
attack because I'll my bloodpressure was elevated, my heart
rate was elevated.
There were like all theseexternal indicators, and they
did all of the testing, a fullworkup, and nothing was wrong
with my body.
And then they just then theydecided it was just an anxiety
attack.
Looking back, that happened atthe same time that I was
switching medications.

(13:01):
The same thing happened when Iwould go off of medications
prior to getting pregnant.
You know, I you have to go offof medications, and I had to
take, you know, remove my birthcontrol.
And I would get severely,severely depressed right before,
right as I was getting pregnant.
Both times I got pregnant when Iwas during medication, it was
recognized then not looking backnow, it was I was in withdrawal,

(13:24):
but nobody recognized that.
Nobody acknowledged that, right?
And then postpartum, I had asevere postpartum hyperthyroid
condition that was correlatedwith the me starting up my drugs
again.
Like I was still takingantidepressants all the way
through the pregnancy, but Iwould start taking the quote
unquote mood stabilizers.
And as my hormones shifted, andas I started taking these

(13:45):
medications and they startedchanging my chemistry, my body
went into hyperthyroidism.
Like I my high my I felt I toldmy husband both times, I said, I
feel like I'm in high schoolagain.
I can't I'm eating and eatingand eating and I'm losing
weight.
And I was passing out andeverything's like looking back,
most of the problems that I washaving were not related to quote

(14:06):
unquote bipolar disorder.
They were related to the drugaction and the withdrawal and
the you know switchingmedications and coming off of
medications, but nobodyacknowledged what was actually
happening.
And so all of it was lumped intothis, dumped into this bucket,
which is so we created this veryconvenient bucket to dump to you
know to blame all of thesesymptoms on, which is bipolar

(14:26):
disorder.
So anytime you experience anysymptoms at all, it is blamed on
your quote-unquote disorder.
And the problem that thatcreates for people as they want
to heal is that anytime theyexperience the symptoms, there's
a psychological dependence onthese medications because you
are afraid of the symptoms.
And anytime you experiencesymptoms, you think, oh no, my
bipolar is coming back.

(14:48):
When that's not reality, it'snot true.
So I want to talk first about Iwant to talk, I kind of I think
the best thing would be to gothrough the process somebody
goes through when they come whenthey start with true hope.
So when somebody comes to truehope, they do an intake, initial
it take with you guys.
And something that I've learned,and I've I've made sure that I

(15:11):
coach people through wheneverthey start this process, is you
need to tell True Hopeeverything that you're on,
everything, any micronutrientsincluded, because we don't
understand, you know, the layperson does not understand how
these things interact with eachother.
We don't understand like whatthe withdrawal is going to look
like, we don't understand any ofthat.
So we need to make sure we givea very clear picture to True

(15:34):
Hope of everything that we'retaking.
And sometimes I think that it'shelpful, you know, if you
especially if you have we hadone person one time that had
recently titrated down and wereexperiencing a lot of intense
symptoms, which once we talkedto True Hope about it, he said,
Well, you're actually inwithdrawal.
So before we increase your true,you know, your supplements,
we're gonna do some aminos tohelp get rid of these withdrawal

(15:58):
symptoms, help mitigate these,not get rid of, but help
mitigate the withdrawalsymptoms.
So let's talk about that first.
So what happens when somebodycomes to you and they they do
the this workup with you?
Do they start titrating downright away, or what's the first
thing that's gonna happen withthem?

SPEAKER_00 (16:14):
Uh it all depends on the medications that um they're
working with.
And and I'm not on the supportfloor anymore.
Uh once was back in 2007, 2008,um, overseeing some of the
operations there more on the theintake side of things versus the
actual support.
Uh, but it it was always youknow independent or um sorry,
individual dependent on how theprogram was going to roll out.

(16:38):
So sometimes what would happen,um, well, I'll shall say it's
right off the bat, they wouldnever engage in reducing
somebody off their medicationsright off the bat.
So what would what would happenis typically speaking, is that
the individual would get ontothe micronutrients, they get
onto the MPR plus, they'd startto ramp up to a dose that's

(17:01):
going to start really supportingthem, supporting their mental
health.
And then, depending on the theindividual and what the
medication was, you know,generally within about a week's
time, they would be engaging intheir first reduction.
And so let's let's just give anexample here.
Let's say that it's just SSRI,and this applies to most SSRIs,
but not all.

(17:21):
Some of them are uh generallyapproached with an eighth
reduction model, where we willdo reductions at one eighth of
the medication per time.
But generally speaking, it's aquarter reduction.
And so a quarter reduction wouldoccur after about a week or
within that week, and then wewould wait and we would see

(17:42):
what's going on and wait forwhat is referred to within our
head office as medicationpotentiation, where we start to
see that the medication isstarting to become overpowering,
where they're into a state ofover-medication.
And then the next withdrawalwould take place or the next
reduction would take place fromthe medication, and then it just

(18:03):
persists from there until we canget them off the medication.
Now, those are pretty general,you know, general set of rules.
Sometimes if somebody's onmedication longer, it could be
the same medication as the nextperson over, but they're getting
an eighth reduction becausethey're much more sensitive.
Their dependency on it hasincreased over the years.

(18:23):
And so there's a customtailoring that takes place in
relation to all of this.
We use general guidelines, butthose general guidelines are
there just to provide exactlywhat that is, general
guidelines, not the specificsfor that particular individual.
And so there's variance thatthat will occur from one person
to the next, depending on thevarious circumstances that led

(18:44):
up to them giving us a call andgetting onto the micronutrients.
And so that's what it wouldnormally look like.
They come in, we do the intake,we get all the information that
we can get, and so that we knowwhat we're working with in
relation to limiting factors,things that are going to
contradict the supplements thatthey're gonna have to eliminate
or reduce, even things likealcohol consumption, all that

(19:07):
type of stuff, because that'scounteractive to the the effects
of the Empire Plus.
And then then we'll begin theprocess of getting them onto the
Empire Plus, they receive it inthe mail, and then we start to
work with them from there.
Uh obviously, if they're inCanada, they may have already
purchased it from a health foodstore, so they have it on hand,
and they may already begintaking it, and then you know,

(19:29):
we're gonna wait for that umthat time to be able to begin
the process of withdrawing themoff the medication in the most
safe and efficacious way that weknow how, which we've developed
some pretty good expertise overthe over the years and over the
about a hundred thousand peoplethat we've worked with over the
last three decades uhsurrounding medication
reduction.

SPEAKER_01 (19:49):
Well, and one of the things I want to anecdotally,
um, when I started, so I priorto finding True Hope, I had
found one other micronutrient orsupplement, I shouldn't say
micronutrient, but anothersupplement from an MLM that
somebody had recommended.
And I started taking it, and itwas helping a little bit because
I was getting over-medicated.
I didn't know whatovermedication was, I didn't

(20:10):
understand what was happening,but there was something
happening.
And it has, it was helping withsome symptoms.
And so I was taking that priorto starting with True Hope, and
I didn't mention it to True Hopewhen I started.
In fact, I didn't talk to themabout it for about two years
because it never occurred to methat something natural was
something that I needed to talkto them about.
You know, I just like, this isjust another supplement, I'm not

(20:31):
gonna worry about that.
And I told them about all themedications and I followed all
the protocols.
And a couple of years in, sojust so anybody in the audience
knows, if you're working withtrue hope, they will call you
periodically.
If you don't call them and youdon't talk to them, they will
call you on a periodic basisjust to check in with you and
see how you're doing.
They'll want to update theirfiles and make sure they know

(20:52):
everything that you're on andand you know how you've been
doing.
And they called for one ofthese.
And I, like I said, I've been onit for a couple of years.
And as they were going throughupdating their file, they asked
the question, is there anythingelse that you're taking?
They didn't ask medications,they said anything else that
you're taking.
And I said, Well, I'm takingthis other thing.
And they said, Oh, well, what isthat?
So we went through theingredient list because they

(21:13):
weren't familiar with the actualproduct yet.
And when they there wassomething in the ingredient list
that they said, you should notbe taking that because that
actually interferes with theabsorption of the Empower Plus.
And I was surprised.
I was like, really?
You know, and so I talked tothem, I was kind of curious.
I talked to him about it for alittle bit, stopped taking it,
and within a month, like some ofthe things that I was still

(21:34):
struggling with were gone.
And I was just, I was always,I'm always amazed at how I
shouldn't be.
But I'm still like really in aweand grateful for the expertise
that True Hope's customersupport has because over the
years, there have been timeswhen I thought I knew better and
I would try something and alwayspaid a price for it.
And so I got to a point whereI'm like, never go against True

(21:56):
Hope's advice.
Like, if True Hope tells you toyou tells you to do something,
you do it because theyunderstand what they're talking
about.
They've been doing this for solong.
They know, they understand howto make sure that your brain is
getting what it needs tofunction in a healthy way and
how to safely remove themedications.
And and so let's talk about overmedication a little bit because
I don't think people reallyunderstand what this is.

(22:18):
I you know, if somebody startstaking the true hope supplements
and they do not decrease theirmedications, they will start
experiencing symptoms.
And it's different foreverybody, it's different based
on the medications, it's baseddifferent based on the
individual.
But can you talk about you youused a different term?
Um you you said over medication,but there was something
medication something that yousaid.

SPEAKER_00 (22:38):
Medication potentiation is yeah, and I'm
not sure how long they've beenusing that term for, but that's
the term that they use in-housenow.

SPEAKER_01 (22:45):
Okay.
So what's my I'm gonna I'm gonnaask you if this is accurate
because this is what I think ishappening.
So what I what I understandhappening is that as your brain
begins to heal, the medicationbecomes too much for your
healing brain.
Is that is that an accurate wayto say that?

SPEAKER_00 (23:03):
Or yeah, so so let me put it this way.
So if you're taking an SSRI,selective serotonin reuptake
inhibitor, which is preventingthe reuptake of serotonin so
that you have serotoninavailable, if you're taking that
and then you take M Power Plus,which is enhancing the natural
production of serotonin, wellnow you're reasonably you're
gonna have too much serotonin,right?

(23:24):
And you're not gonna feel verygood.
You're gonna go into serotoninsyndrome.
So, yes, that's exactly whatwhat's going on there is the
reason why these medicationswork for certain individuals is
because there's something goingon in the brain that needs to be
addressed.
And so, you know, and and thisis just using the hypothetical

(23:44):
that the medication is actuallyworking for them, because many
people will get on medicationsand they don't work, and then
they have to jump from one tothe next to the next, and then
eventually that one seemed towork.
And so let's say thathypothetically they're on a
medication that has been workingfor them, and now they get on
the Empire Plus.
Well, their brain chemistry isnormalizing.
They're producing, and when Isay brain chemistry, I'm talking

(24:07):
about the production ofneurotransmitters, which in
essence are chemicals, if youwant to call them that, but
that's what they are, is youknow, amino acid-based molecules
that uh that are doing a job.
They're they're sending andreceiving messages, they're
communicating, they're reallycommunication enhancers, is what
they are, telling the body to docertain things or the brain to

(24:27):
do certain things.
And so keeping everythingworking in order within the
body.
And so now the medication isbeing overdone.
So it'd be, in essence, likegiving somebody who never had a
mental health condition apsychiatric medication.
Well, what's it gonna do?
It's gonna dysregulate things.
It's gonna throw you out ofbalance, can throw you out of
whack, if you will.
You're not gonna feel well.

(24:49):
And you're actually gonna end upwith mental health symptoms,
even though you didn't havemental health symptoms to start
off with.
So that's taking in, if you wantto call it, a normal person, a
person who doesn't have adiagnosable mental health
condition, and throw them onto apsychiatric medication, a
therapeutic dose, you cananticipate mental health issues
to arise.
So that's what it's doing.

(25:10):
And what's interesting aboutthat is that in the research,
they call it the bell-shapedcurve.
And so you have people that areparticipants in the research.
They're being studied, they'reon the Empire Plus.
Now, most of these people thatwere that were being researched
were coming already onmedications.
And so what the researchersfound is that generally by about

(25:33):
that day five mark, is that theyhad a reduction in symptoms.
So symptoms are going down.
Hey, that's great.
This is looking, you know,there's some statistical
reduction in symptoms, anyways.
And and it's looking great.
But then it tapers off.
And then symptoms start to go upagain.
And we're talking about mentalhealth symptoms in general here.

(25:56):
And the initial response fromthe doctors involved in the
researchers saying, whoa, whoa,whoa, whoa, symptoms are
returning.
We need to increase themedication.
When in reality, it was theexact opposite.
We need to decrease themedication now.
So then that and that was thehardest thing to educate a lot

(26:16):
of these doctors on because itwas so counterintuitive.
Symptoms increasing, medicationneeds to increase.
No, symptoms are increasingbecause they're over medicated
and they're now exhibiting thesemental health symptoms.
So reduce the medication.
Now we go like this, and nowwe're plateauing.
That's when you should do thewithdrawal right there.

(26:36):
If we can identify that there'sa flatlining in the symptom
evaluation charts, that thesymptoms aren't decreasing
anymore, because we anticipatethat if you persist, it's gonna
go up and maybe it starts to goup.
Now you reduce the medication.
Oh, tapers down and down it goesagain, right?
And then you can follow thatliterally.
You can just follow thisdownward step throughout the

(26:57):
withdrawal process, where if youdon't withdraw fast enough,
you're gonna start to go up andthen you withdraw and then
you're gonna go down again,right?
But it's hopefully if you'redoing it at the appropriate
rate, it's persistently goingdown rather than coming back up.
But that's exactly what youwould anticipate to see if the
medications were not withdrawnat an appropriate rate, you

(27:17):
would see an increase insymptoms that are synonymous
with mental health conditions.
And as such, that's where itbecomes so counterintuitive,
where doctors will look at itand say, symptoms increasing,
medication needs to increasewhen in fact it's the exact
opposite.
The medications were causing theissue.

SPEAKER_01 (27:36):
Right.
And so if somebody goes intoover-medication, they call True
Hope, and True Hope will advisethem, based on the medications
that they're taking, how much toreduce each medication by.
If somebody's taking multiplemedications, there might be a
different amount that each oneneeds to be reduced by based
based on their drug action,based on what withdrawal looks

(27:57):
like from that medication.
And then when they reduce themedications, they will go into a
mitigated withdrawal, but it isa withdrawal.
They are going to go into awithdrawal from that medication
being reduced, right?

SPEAKER_00 (28:12):
Well, it depends.
Because if if we're waiting forthe medication potentiation to
occur, where we're starting tosee that the medication is
starting to generate thoseeffects, the reduction
oftentimes won't create thewithdrawal effect or near as
much withdrawal effect.
Whereas if you preempt it andyou're you're going down, your

(28:33):
symptoms are going down, and wehaven't even gotten to the
plateau yet, and we withdraw atthat point, it could be too
early.
You might get lucky and withdrawjust at the right point in time,
and you just keep this kind ofsmooth-flowing decrease in
symptoms as time goes on.
But if you withdraw too quickly,likelihood that you're going to
have withdrawal effects aregoing to increase quite a bit.

(28:55):
And so that's why True Hopetakes more of that kind of they
try to take the safe approachwhere we want to wait till we
see the medication starting topotentiate, starting to create
some symptoms, and then withdrawat that point in time so as to
avoid withdrawal effects as muchas possible.

SPEAKER_01 (29:13):
Right.
And it's really important.
One of the things that I do inmy program is I teach people to
start mapping out what thatlooks like for themselves so
that they can see it.
It's really hard when somebody,especially if somebody's been
living with this for any kind ofextended period of time, you
know, in the program, we don'ttalk about bipolar disorder, we
talk about bipolar symptoms.

(29:34):
We check, we we really activelytry to work with the language
that is going to help change theway that we view these things.
And we talk about how symptomsare information.
You're a detective in your life.
We're going to figure out whatthe information is that's
coming, you know, that we'rereceiving from that symptom.
And so when they go through thisprocess, you know, I try to make
sure that they understand it.
I do not advise them.

(29:55):
I want to make sure everybodyunderstands that.
The only what I'm doing in thecoaching program with this pro.
Of the process of healing isteaching them how to use true
hope effectively, how to makesure you're giving them accurate
information, that you're callingwhen them when you need to.
And, you know, that's our mantrais when in doubt, call true
hope.
Like if there's any doubt atall, call true hope right away,
ask them, and they will tellyou, you know, just stay the

(30:17):
course.
This is just normal, or youknow, increase aminos, or, you
know, it's hide for a reduction.
But we always, you know, that'sthe that's kind of our mantra in
the program is it, you know,when in doubt, call true hope.
But it's understanding whatthese symptoms are actually
telling them so that there's notuh there's a tendency sometimes
I've seen in people to revertback to the idea that this is

(30:39):
your bipolar coming back.
You know, there's some fear andanxiety surrounding this.
Like what if this isn't gonnawork?
And what if this, you know, whatwhat if this, you know, I have
my bipolar symptoms come back?
You know, it's very scary forsome people because they don't
want to end up back in thehospital.
They don't want to end up, youknow, with the symptoms that
cause them to do really badthings, right?
And so, so it's really helpful,I think, for people to

(31:01):
understand what's actuallyhappening to them.
This is not your bipolar comingback, this is your brain healing
and your medication potentiationor over-medication is happening.
And so now it's time to, this isexciting.
Like this is good news.
We're gonna reduce a little bitnow, and then you're gonna level
out for a little bit.
And I want to talk a little bit,I'm gonna just talk here just

(31:22):
briefly about what kind of thatthose those symptoms can look
like, because I don't wantpeople to be afraid that this is
gonna like throw them intomania, you know, or you know,
that it's gonna be a scaryexperience.
What I have seen, and maybe youI don't know if you can talk
about this, but for for mepersonally, I will share.
I started to get depressed whenI would get over medicated.
And I also had a really weirdthing where I so I would have

(31:44):
depression and and and fatiguewere two main ones for me.
But I also would had this weirdthing where I could taste the
medication in my mouth.
And I don't, I've never heardanybody else talk about it, but
that was something really weirdfor me.
It tasted like I had sucked on apill, is what it tasted like to
me.
And it was, I thankfully, once Ithat once that happened a couple
of times, I was able to say, I'mover medicated now, and so I

(32:06):
would call true hope.
But the first two times ithappened, I'm like, what is
wrong with me?
I don't understand what'shappening.
And the first time it happened,I called my doctor, and my
doctor didn't know what to tellme.
And thankfully he was on board.
That is not very common, but mydoctor had had looked at True
Hope's research.
And at that point, I had beentreated by him for over eight
years, and he was as desperateto find something to help me as

(32:26):
I was.
And so I was so grateful to thatdoctor for his willingness to be
open.
And he looked at True Hope'sresearch, felt like it was good
research, and he said, Thislooks like a viable option.
But when it came to goingthrough the withdrawal process,
he did not know how to help me.
And so he, the first time Icalled him, he said, I don't
know what to tell you.
You need to call true hope.
And from that point on, I justcalled true hope each time

(32:48):
because he didn't he didn't knowhow to safely withdraw me from
the medication.

SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
Well, no, they're not learning that in in in
university.
They're they're learning how toput people on medications,
they're learning how to switchmedications.
But when you're working withpsychiatric medications, the
concept is that these areincurable conditions that will
need to be treated for alifetime.
So the whole concept ofwithdrawing isn't on the table.

(33:12):
Hence why they're not beingeducated on it.
They're just medication isn'tworking anymore.
All right, we're gonna do aswitch.
We're gonna switch over to thistype of medication and see if it
works.
And then that's the generalmodel that's being applied.
So unfortunately, that's the sadreality that we see where you
have very well-meaning doctorsout there that are not educated

(33:33):
in a way that they can best helptheir patients, especially when
somebody's withdrawing off ofone of these medications that
the model was they were neversupposed to get off it in the
first place.
And so, yeah, it's it's but it'sbeen a real beautiful uh, you
know, a benefit or a blessingfor us to be able to interface
with many open-minded doctorsand to train them on the

(33:55):
protocols over the years.
Um, and many of them have usedthem to, you know, with great
success with their own uhprivate practices and whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 (34:07):
And and uh I I guess I got a little sidetracked
there, but I want to talk aboutsome of the other symptoms I've
seen.
So um there's some people willget really agitated, so like
really, you know, kind ofagitated and like get angry
really easily.
Um, I have seen uh let's see,what are some of the other ones?
Fatigue is one that I seeregularly, fatigue and

(34:27):
depression.
Um, and then the agitation isanother one.
Um, so what are some otherthings?
Because I I the one thing that Ihave seen with when it comes to
mania, because that seems to beone of the things that people
are most afraid of.
I have never seen anybody in myexperience where they ramped
into mania like all of a sudden.
And so it's it is the one personthat I saw get manic, she had

(34:51):
missed a bunch of doses ofmedication and micronutrients,
and it took time for her tobecome manic for like weeks.
So there were there were kind ofwarnings along the way, and and
I didn't know at the time thatshe was missing doses.
So it once looking back, youknow, she ended up in the
hospital.
She, you know, had to stabilizefor a few months before she

(35:13):
could try again.
And she learned her lesson.
I was so grateful because I thatshe didn't give up because she's
almost done with her taper nowand doing really well.
Like every time I see her, I'mlike, you look so good, you
know.
But but like can we talk about alittle bit more?
I don't know if you know anyother, like any other kind of
over medication type symptoms,if there's anything other than
that that you've seen.

SPEAKER_00 (35:34):
You've largely summed it up.
Um, one of the ways that we putit as well, and this would go
along with the fatigue and andthe agitation, is kind of just
being groggy.
And and that seems to be thedirection generally that over
medication goes.
And if anybody has any questionsabout it as they're going
through the process, oftentimeswe'll just simply recommend that
they go to rxlist.com, look uptheir medication, go to the side

(35:58):
effects tab, scroll down, andsure enough, basically without
fail, they can identify right,there's the symptoms that I'm
having, these side effects thatare listed on the medication.
Because when you have themedication potentiation or the
over medication taking place,the ability to have those side

(36:18):
effects manifest, even thoughthey weren't having them before,
is increased at that point intime.
And so rxlist.com has been afantastic tool for many people
over the years to receive someclarity for what they're
currently going through and tounderstand it's not the bipolar.
Oh, it's not where my initialinitial diagnosis was.

(36:40):
It's the side effect of themedication.
And it's listed right there inblack and white.
And so that's been a fantastictool to help enlighten people to
realize what they're workingwith.
That it's no, it's not you, it'sthe medication that you have,
and you just need to reduce themedication.

unknown (36:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (36:55):
And it's gonna go away.
Yeah, and then consistency iscritical.
Since I mentioned that already,I I want to talk about that here
because you know, and one of thethings that I do in my program
that I'll I'll mention is we setup like this tools that are
gonna help people to stayconsistent.

(37:16):
So when I was doing it, when Ifirst started doing you know,
this process, I I missed med, Imissed med doses all the time.
Like I just was not, I didn't, Iwasn't missing them every single
day, but I would forgetsometimes, you know, and I
wasn't using a pill organizerwith my medications or anything
like that.
So there were a lot of timeswhere I'm like, did I take my
medication today?
I can't remember.
And I'm sure that contributed tothe erratic symptoms that I

(37:39):
experienced when I was onmedication.
But when I was going throughthis draw process, True Hope's
customer support was veryadamant that I needed to make
sure that I didn't miss doses.
And I was trying to figure outlike, how do I make sure I
remembered that I take my doses?
And I kind of went through atrial and error period.
But what I landed on was howimportant it was for me to have
pill organizers, because then Iwouldn't be questioning whether

(38:01):
I took my dose for the day.
You also have to take like themedications and the
micronutrients have to be takena certain amount of time apart.
There's a lot of differentdetails that have to be
remembered in order to beconsistent with taking these.
So we use like, I have peopleuse alarms.
I have them use a little chartfor themselves that they, you
know, make their plan for theweek so they can see when they
need to take them, if they'regoing to be gone.

(38:21):
We have them make sure they ifthey put a reminder alarm to
remind them to take theirmedications and micronutrients
with them because you cannotmiss doses.
Like it's it's very important tomake sure you're not missing
doses of the medications, you'renot missing doses of the
micronutrients.
You have to be super consistentwith this process.

SPEAKER_00 (38:39):
Consistency is key.
100%.
In relation to the overallsuccess, consistency is one of
the main ingredients that cannotbe removed from the process.
Otherwise, failure is what mostpeople can come to expect.
And so, yes, uh, absolutelyconsistency on the medications
while you're withdrawing fromthem.

(38:59):
Otherwise, unless you're youlike going down rocky roads, it
gets a little more bumpy.
But you know, the moreconsistency, consistent you are
with it, the smoother thetransition will be off of the
medication.
But then also obviously theconsistency on the empire plus,
because as you're coming offthat medication, what's
replacing it?
What's generating the supportwithin the brain, making you

(39:20):
function?
And so the Empire Plus isabsolutely crucial alongside
whatever else they may haverecommended.
Maybe if somebody was sufferingwith generalized anxiety or
something like that, they'd betaking the inocital on a regular
basis as well.
And you know, coming off themedications, they should be
taking the free amino that'swhat it's called here in Canada,
amino power plus in the US tohelp come off of those

(39:42):
medications while eliminatingwithdrawal effects.
But being consistent on whateverthe recommendations are is going
to much better ensure that youwill have a very high level of
success in coming off themedications safely and
effectively and obtaining themental health that uh you likely
never even had in your life.
But uh, if you did at one pointin time have stability in life,

(40:04):
you're gonna regain that and youcan expect to go beyond even
that, beyond what you wereaccustomed to, even in a state
of wellness before.

SPEAKER_01 (40:12):
Yeah, and I I mentioned this in a previous
episode, but I was going throughthis process for like five or
six months, and then one day Iwoke up and it felt like it was
the first time I was awake inover a decade.
And I I called my husband.
Like I called my husband, I wasso excited, I'm like, oh my
gosh, I feel like I'm awake.
And he was nervous at firstbecause he thought I was manic

(40:32):
because I was so animated andexcited.
And so he's like, uh, maybe youneed to call your doctor.
You know, he was very nervous,and rightly so.
The man had been through a lotwith me, right?
But I kept trying to explain tohim, I'm like, I'm not manic.
I said, I I haven't felt thisway in years.
Like my brain feels awake.
Is this what normal people feellike?
I just kept saying it's like, isthis what normal people feel

(40:53):
like?
And I didn't, I think,especially when you're kind of
in that that drug state forextended periods of time, you
forget what it feels like tofeel normal.
Like you don't remember what itfeels like for your brain to
function in a healthy way, if itever did.
And it was such a it was it wassuch a and such a blessing
because I did not know my braincould feel like that.

(41:15):
And that was just a beginning.
Like I was like, my brain ishealed.
It was like just the very, verybeginning taste of what it was
gonna actually feel like lateron.
But but that's one of the hugethings, and I love I love
watching people go through thisprocess.
Whenever somebody like quitsbefore they get there, it makes
me so sad because I'm like, oh,you don't understand how much

(41:35):
better you can feel on this.
It will change your lifeliterally.
It literally saved my life.
I will forever be grateful toyour dad and for all the people
that made this this supplementpossible because it literally
saved my life.
Quite literally.
That is not hyperbole, that I'mnot being you know, hyperbolic
in that statement.
I'm being very literal that itliterally saved my life.

SPEAKER_00 (41:59):
You know, we we've gotten that so many times.
Uh you know, and for your youraudience here, it's it's
important to understand thatthat you know, oftentimes what
we're working with is literallylife and death situations.
But let's even just hone in alittle bit more, uh, you know,
just into relate, you know,relationships and all that.
I had the opportunity years ago,I used to be over the video
department.

(42:19):
I actually started the videodepartment where we were
categorizing all of the newsarticles that were being
produced on us, thedocumentaries that were coming
out, that type of thing.
And I was digitizing them andthen I would disseminate them,
all that type of stuff.
And um we we developed thisprogram where we started
traveling around and we weredoing video testimonials.

(42:40):
Um and it was it was it was a itwas a lot of fun.
And the reason why is one, wewere meeting all these different
individuals, but hearing thesefantastic stories.
And the the one opportunity thatI had in early 2007 was to
interview a couple, uh, ahusband and wife, and the the
husband had just been sufferingwith bipolar for a lot of years,

(43:05):
and it caused strain in theirmarriage, it caused strain in
his relationship with his threesons.
Um, he wasn't as present as a ofa father as he should have been,
and he destroyed their theirfinances significantly when he
went into a complete manic stateand he purchased everything he
ever wanted to purchase, and allof a sudden they're over$100,000
in debt, and and also not a lotof debt today, but back in 2000,

(43:28):
in the early 2000s, that youknow, as a little more, and you
know, he's buying whatevervehicle he ever wanted, and that
just all sorts of stuff.
And um as well-meaning as hewas, and you know, good-hearted
as he was, he he just wasn't incontrol of himself and it was
causing these issues.
And so I interviewed them, andthis is years after he got on

(43:48):
the Empire Plus, and you know,he's talking about the fact that
he has a relationship finallywith his boys that he never had,
and his boys are in their lateteens, early twenties now, but
he's finally able to have therelationship.
He missed that whole window oftime with them, right?
But he's but he but he's makingup for it.
And his wife, I interview her,and she's just bawling.

(44:12):
And she's saying, I finally havethe husband back that I had
initially married.
And you know, when you look atit, and we're you know you're
say there's there's lives beingsaved in this situation.
I don't think it was life anddeath, but in this situation, it
was a marriage and a family thatwas being saved.
And we hear this all the time.
We hear this feedback, and it'swhat keeps me fueled up, right?

(44:34):
Like no amount of money in theworld would would ever replace
the fact that I can go to go tobed at night knowing I made a
difference in the world.
Because I've had otheropportunities in my life to go
make money in a much more easyfashion than what we're doing
here and and more money.
But when I put into thebalances, I said, Am I willing
to leave off with this?
When I'm hearing this beautifulfeedback, am I willing to do

(44:56):
that for some money?
Like, am I gonna be a feel asrewarded?
And the simple answer was no.
The simple answer was no, aslong as I have food on my table,
it doesn't matter, right?
As long as my family's providedfor, it doesn't matter.
Because the real reward in thisis knowing that there are a lot
of people being blessed in asignificant way, in the same way
that I've been blessed, myfamily's been blessed, that

(45:17):
you've been blessed.
And it's it's just a beautifulthing.
And so thank you for sharing thefact that, you know, as you put
it so boldly, that this savedyour life.
And that's not uncommon.

SPEAKER_01 (45:27):
Yeah.
Well, and and I didn't know thatI was healing when I was
healing.
Like I didn't really understandthat.
I didn't understand that it waspossible to heal because I had
been so thoroughly indoctrinatedin this idea that bipolar was a
lifelong and curable condition.
I would have it for the rest ofmy life.
And I was grateful for true hopebecause I thought, man, this is

(45:49):
really helping me, you know,live better.
Like I was, I was starting tohave, you know, be able to
control myself.
I was, you know, especially likewhen I I think I mentioned in
one of the previous episodes,again, this is the one of the
things that I, you know,reinforce all the time.
Symptoms are information.
And don't just live with thesymptoms, figure out what the
symptoms are trying to tell you.
So, you know, I had I had theexperience after I'd been on in

(46:11):
power for a couple of yearswhere I'd had an outburst with
one of my son, with my son.
I was still continuing to getagitated.
I was still struggling withanger.
And I just happened to have oneof those experiences with my son
when True Hope called to checkon me that day.
Feels like divine interventionto me, honestly, because it had
never occurred to me to talk toTrue Hope about this symptom

(46:31):
because I didn't view symptomsthat way at the time.
I just thought I didn't have anyself-control and I felt like a
bad person, like a bad mom.
And I was talking to her and Iwas kind of frustrated, and she
said, like, you know, how's yourday going?
I'm like, not so great, youknow.
And I just kind of I don't knowwhat made me say the things that
I said to her, but I happened tomention this, like, I just don't
have any control over my anger.

(46:52):
And she asked me questions.
This woman started asking mequestions about it, and in a
after a couple of minutes, shesaid, Sweetie, you need salmon
oil.
And I remember like that phrasewill stick in my head forever.
She's like, Sweetie, you needsalmon oil.
And I'm like, what are youtalking about?
She said, You need salmon oil.
And I started taking a very highdose of salmon oil and it
resolved the problem.

(47:12):
Like all of a sudden, I was ableto, I was able to um control
myself.
You know, I had been practicingmindfulness meditation.
I've been doing all these otherthings to try and control this
anger, but there was anessential nutrient that my brain
was not getting that it neededin order to produce whatever
was, you know, in my brain tohelp me control myself and be

(47:32):
able to not flip out.
And now, like I used to be areally angry driver.
I would like scream at people,you know, stuff.
I I am totally chill when Idrive now, you know.
So so it's it's really importantfor people to understand that
we've got to stop pathologizingthese symptoms and lumping them
into these groups and andrecognize like this this is your

(47:53):
brain asking for help.
What are the symptoms trying tosay and start listening to the
symptoms and give your brain andyour body what it needs to
function in a healthy way?

SPEAKER_00 (48:02):
Exactly.
I I know we've digressed fromthe the medication aspect here,
but did we talk about the fourpillars of nutrition in your
own?

SPEAKER_01 (48:09):
You mentioned it before, but will you repeat it
in this one?
Because I think that's a goodthing to talk about here.

SPEAKER_00 (48:13):
Yeah, you because you brought up the salmon oil,
and and we don't we don't sellsalmon oil.
And the reason being is thatthere's great salmon oils out
there.
We're not we're not about justsupplying any you know a Me Too
product and reallycommercializing what we're doing
here.
Um we just recommend that peoplego get a good omega-3 fatty
acid.
And oftentimes that salmon oil,if you want uh a more immediate

(48:36):
effect because it'spre-converted, the salmon went
and did the job for you.
It converted you know differentforms of omega-3 fatty acid into
a form, actually, well, theyprobably got it from the krill,
but down the road at some pointin time it started off as a
vegetable source, omega-3 fattyacid as ALA, and then it gets
converted in in our bodies,right, in fishes' bodies in the

(48:58):
krill, whatever, into differentforms of omega-3 fatty acid.
So you have the DHA and the EPAalready read readily available
to go straight to work, and theDHA is really that's a
docahexanoic acid, but that'sreally for cognition.
It's it's it helps the brain,helps with mental health
conditions, helps with ADHD,it's it's it's great, especially

(49:18):
when it's not on its own.
When you when you combine itwith the other pillars of
nutrition to make sure thatthere's synergy, that there's
conversions taking place thatneed to take place.
And so when we take a look atthe four pillars of nutrition
that really give us a strongsupport base, just like a
four-legged chair, that'svitamins, minerals, amino acids,

(49:39):
and then omega fatty acids, andI still can't hold that one up
on its own any stretch.
So um you have those fourclasses of nutrients, and they
work synergistically together.
Not one of them will do its fulljob without the others being
present.
And so that that you know, itgoes down the whole
neurotransmitter pathways, itgoes to the whole conversion in

(50:02):
the human body of flax oil orhemp or chia, you know, the
omega-3 fatty acid being foundin there, converting over to the
DHA, DPA, and EPA necessary foryour body to be healthy, your
brain to thrive.
And so, you know, you reallyhighlight that, okay, the M

(50:22):
power plus got you to a certainplace and was serving you quite
well.
But without that omega fattyacid, with you being deficient
in the omega-3 fatty acids, youwere never able to get fully to
where you needed to be.
And so once you introduce that,life changing.

SPEAKER_01 (50:43):
Yes.
Yeah, and and uh one of theother things that I want to talk
about.
So when I got onto this, I'musing anecdote just to kind of
take us along the path, but wemoved, I've moved a ton, like
not across town like otherstates.
We've lived in six states sincemy husband and I got married.
And within the state we'reliving now, we've lived in four

(51:05):
different places already.
So hopefully we're not movinganymore.
I'm sick of moving.
But every time I would move, thefirst time I moved after I
switched over to Empower, Istarted getting like I kind of
got hypomatic during the movingphase, and then I got depressed
afterwards, and it was a prettysignificant depression.
And and it made me nervousbecause again, the psychological

(51:25):
dependence, this idea that I hadthis disease, you know, this
disorder that I would haveforever.
And I started worrying because Ihad been through this with
medication, I started worryingthat maybe the medic that the
micronutrients weren't workinganymore.
Because I'd been through thatwith medication where I would be
okay for a little bit and thenall of a sudden it wasn't
working anymore.
And I called True Hope in apanic one day.
And I said, I I'm I'm depressedand I, you know, the

(51:46):
micronutrients aren't working.
And they asked me somequestions.
One of the things I love aboutthis is that True Hope does not
just shoot from, you know, theydon't shoot from the hip.
You guys don't just, you know,spout off stuff.
They always ask questions.
There's always follow-upquestions to get a clear picture
of what's going on.
And they talked to me for thefirst time about a med release.
I had never heard aboutmedication, you know, what a

(52:07):
medication release was.
And and I said, but I've beenoff the medications.
I can't remember how many monthsat that point.
I want to say eight or ninemonths at that point.
But they said your body storesthis medication for up to 10
years in your soft tissues.
And when you go through intensestress, it can push that
medication back into yoursystem.
And so then you end up withmedication that your body

(52:28):
doesn't need anymore.
And it's, I don't want to saytoxic, but it's what it felt
like to me.
Like it was pretty baddepression.
This was not like it was it feltwrong.
I don't know how to describe it.
Because there's there's anatural state of depression.
There are times when we have badthings happen in our lives, and
that is a natural state.
This did not feel like a naturalstate of depression.
And and so that was the firsttime that I learned about a med

(52:51):
release.
And true hope gave me theprotocol for what to do to help
mitigate those that in my body,and I took care of that, and
then we went through anothermove and I went through med
release again, and the thirdtime it happened, I was like, I
don't want to do this anymore.
And I talked to I talked to TrueHope and I said, I'm gonna do a
cleanse.
I just want to get this out ofmy body, and they said, Do not

(53:11):
do that, that is unsafe.
We don't have any idea how muchof this medication is in your
system.
It could be very dangerous foryou.
This was one of those times whenI learned the hard way, and so I
went to a a store and got aliver cleanse and started a
health food store and startedtaking it.
And I was so depressed.

(53:31):
If I didn't know better, I wouldhave ended up in the hospital.
Like I was in bed, couldn't getout of bed, I was severely,
severely depressed, and calledTrue Hope crying and said, I
didn't listen to you, I don'tknow what to do now.
Like, and they said, first ofall, stop taking the liver
cleanse.
So I stopped taking that, andthen I was like drinking tons of
whey protein isolate and takingtons of the aminos.

(53:54):
And after about a week, it wasout of my system and I was
feeling better, and I was like,never again, never ever, ever
again.
So, can you talk about what thatis?
What did I go?
What was I going through?
It's very frustrating for somepeople when they learn this
because they're like, well, itfeels hopeless, but it's not
actually hopeless.
I think that it's helpful tounderstand this because
forewarned is forearmed, right?

(54:16):
So let's talk about what washappening to me each time that
happened.

SPEAKER_00 (54:19):
Well, it depends on the medication that that you
were pushing into yourbloodstream and and the effect
that it was having in yourneurochemistry.
Um, but I I I want to add tothat real quickly here because
patience is a virtue, especiallywhen it comes to the medication
reduction process.
And then even just after themedication is out, like you're
you're communicating there.

(54:40):
Um when we say that it can storeup to or up to 10 years in your
system, that's that's actuallyjust a hypothetical.
I've worked personally withpeople that have been off
medications for longer than 10years.
And I don't want to communicatea lack of hope here that, oh
boy, I'm gonna be dealing withthis for the rest of my life.
No, when we're on nutrition, wedetox faster than when we're not
on nutrition.

(55:00):
So I've I've literally workedwith people that have been off
medications for longer, thinkingof one particular situation at
hand here where this individualwasn't on our supplements.
They had used our supplementsover a decade before to get off
the medication and then drop thesupplements, dropped the
medication, and just coastedthrough life and did better than
they were when they're on themedication, but they were

(55:20):
unstable.
And they ended up getting ontothe M Power Plus again uh
through associating with me, andthis is over a decade later, and
they started pushing meds again.
This is over a decade, theyhadn't touched medications, and
so um they they can store forwho knows how long, right?
Depending on the circumstancesthat you're generating.

(55:41):
Now, like I said, when you're onthe nutrition, you will detoxify
on a regular basis.
It becomes a normal everydayprocess, which is good, but it
can come with its quirks aswell, you know, as you're
pushing stuff out, but it'sbetter out than in.
Now, I want to communicate the sthe severity of the liver
cleanse and consider yourselfblessed.

SPEAKER_02 (56:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (56:02):
There's another individual I know personally,
and they got well after alifetime of being very unwell,
they got well, were verysuccessful in in relation to
going and even telling theirstory.
So this wasn't just a you know,oh you know, marginally better.
No, they were it actually becametheir career that they were

(56:23):
going and communicating toothers their story when true.
We used to be associated with anMLM years ago.
And this individual, uh, her andher husband, they went to a uh
naturopathic doctor whorecommended do this liver
cleanse.
They did it, and it pushed somuch meds that this individual

(56:44):
forgot who they were.
They they they didn't even knowwho they were for like five days
and never fully came out of it.
It caused brain damage to thepoint that they never fully came
out of it and developed even uman accent.
Literally, like they the speechwas different, markedly

(57:05):
different than it was before.
And and then it was kind ofrocky road after that, up and
down, up and down, never goingback to where they had once
been.
And it's because they literallyoverdosed on medication that was
stored in their system and theypushed it out too fast.
So we are very, very strongadvocates that you do not touch
the liver.

SPEAKER_02 (57:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (57:26):
Not not in a profound way, especially when
you have Empire Plus.
If you don't have Empire Plus inyou, can you push the liver a
little more?
Probably.
But it's because your brainchemistry or your brain can
handle it more when it's notnutrient, but it'd be like me
just going taking a handful ofantipsychotics or something like
that, and what's gonna happen,right?
I think I could die from it,right?
I'm gonna my propensity to havenegative impacts from it is

(57:50):
higher than somebody who mayqualify for a diagnosis of
psychosis.
Right?

SPEAKER_01 (57:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (57:58):
So that that that's so important there in relation
to following those those rules,right?
That have been established for avery good purpose.
So consider yourself blessed.
But yeah, so as to what you areworking with, basically what's
happening is you have normalizedbrain chemistry, you've just
pushed a ton of medication outinto your system, and you are
going to go into an intensestate of over-medication.

(58:21):
And once again, RX list is yourbest friend uh when it comes to
that to identifying.
Look at that.
I'm experiencing two-thirds outof the total totality of the
side effects listed on the onthese two pages, right?

SPEAKER_01 (58:35):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (58:36):
And I just feel like a complete mess.

SPEAKER_01 (58:39):
Yeah, and it's I there were things that true
hope, because I I was gettingaggravated with this, what was
happening.
And so I was asking, okay, well,what causes these this these med
releases?
So I want to I want to go backmake sure that I'm saying this
right.
So my understanding is the themedication gets stored in the
soft tissues of your body, andsomething about stress,

(59:00):
stressors on the body, pushesthat medication out of the soft
tissues into the bloodstream.
And my one of the other thingsthat I've discovered was causing
this was I love to dotriathlons, and I I'm a super
competitive person.
And so I was doing super intensetraining.
Like I don't know how to dothings part way, so it wasn't
like, let's do a triathlon andwe'll just kind of dabble in it.

(59:22):
I was like went and bought bookson it, and I was creating this
really intense training scheduleand stuff.
And while I was doing thetraining, I started experiencing
symptoms and called True Hopeand found out like you cannot do
this intense training right nowbecause it is pushing medication
back into your system.
Like that intense training isstress on the on the body that

(59:43):
is pushing those medicationsback out into your body.

SPEAKER_00 (59:46):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (59:46):
Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_00 (59:47):
Well, that that's absolutely accurate.
And and and and the mainantidote, though not a full
antidote, but the main antidoteto it is increased whey protein
isolate on a regular basis.
So some Some people will be likedoing two, three, four scoops
throughout the day.
So they have a constant releaseof amino acids into the
bloodstream so that when themedications are pushed out of

(01:00:09):
the soft tissue, that there'ssomething to bind up to them and
to pull them out.
So one, reducing the effectsthat the medications are having,
and two, facilitating theability for them to be able to
actually flush out of yoursystem rather than the body
saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,put it back into storage.
This is you know destructivestuff.
When you knock them out ofstorage, you want them out.
But it doesn't eliminate theoverall effect.

(01:00:31):
So it's still not advisable tojust go and do that type of
intense training unless you putit to the test and you know that
you can do it, but that you wantto work your way up to it,
right?
That you don't just startovernight and then you sound you
sound similar to me, you soundsimilar to my dad, where it's
like, hey, if I'm gonna dosomething, we're all in.
Like all in.
Like it's all or nothing.

(01:00:52):
And it's a funner way to livelife, I can tell you that.
But sometimes uh the un anunintended uh effects are not
desirable.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we've talked about we'vetalked about the sources of
symptoms of over medication,withdrawal, med release.
One other thing I think isimportant to talk about is gut
health.
So if you do not have, andthere's a lot more, I think
people are starting tounderstand better, you know,
because there's moreinformation, there's more
research being done, and moreit's being talked about more.

(01:01:20):
How we have to have healthy gutsin order for our body to absorb
nutrients, nutrition, andnutrients into our body, right?
And if your gut is not healthy,you can take nutrients all day
long and your body is just notgoing to be able to absorb it in
in adequate levels, right?
And so I want to talk about thata little bit because I don't
think people really understandthat that piece.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:41):
Yeah, I'll start by saying that the the gut is the
gateway to health.
That's health, not health.
And so it's the gateway tohealth, and without a properly
operating gut or or healthyintestine, intestinal tract, you
are not going to thrive.
And and it's multifaceted inthis way.
One, a lot of neurotransmittersare actually produced in the

(01:02:03):
gut.
So if you have gut dysbiosis, ifyou don't have a healthy gut
flora, if you don't if you havean imbalance in bacteria and
whatnot, or you have uh candidaovergrowth that's taking place,
you're likely not producing theneurotransmitters that you need
to be in the gut that are thengoing to absorb into the
bloodstream and go and and andwork for you.
So there's that aspect.

(01:02:23):
The second aspect is going backto the candida overgrowth,
candida albicans, parasites,that type of thing, which are
more common than we're beingtold, and and part of the root
of disease as well, in in manyaspects, because they will
actually rob you of nutrition aswell.
So you're not getting it out ofyour food as much as you should

(01:02:43):
be, and you're not getting itout of your supplements as much
as you should be when you havefungal overgrowth like Candida
and or parasitic overgrowth, andoftentimes they go hand in hand
as they both thrive within thesame environment.
So they kind of worksynergistically together or
symbiotically, if you will.
And so if you have somethinglike that in your gut, if if you

(01:03:05):
do a candida self-test and youare you know off the charts type
of thing, which a lot of peopleactually are, those are things
that you want to address thatyou'll actually need to address
before you can ever expect highhealth outcomes in relation to
any protocols that you're doing.
And so that's why we've actuallydeveloped the Candida protocol

(01:03:25):
over the years.
I started developing that, Ibelieve, probably, I'm gonna
guess, around 03, 04, somewherearound there is when we started
to really develop the candidaprotocol because we recognized
the need for it.
Where if somebody came to us,let's say they weren't even on
medications, so we don't evenhave that as a factor in all

(01:03:45):
this.
So it should be as simple as popthe top of the bottle, take the
pills, you know, take thecapsules, the 36 ingredients,
you're gonna do well.
Voila.
Should be that simple.
And if they weren't adequatelyresponding, then it's like,
okay, well, why aren't theyresponding?
And you know, vast majority ofthe time came down to oh,
candida overgrowth.
The candida is actuallyconsuming the nutrition.

(01:04:08):
You're actually feeding thecandida, you're making it more
resilient, stronger, or or samewith parasites.
You're you're feeding them.
They like good nutrition too,right?
And so they're consuming atfirst and you're not getting it.
And so when we would deal withthat, then all of a sudden, they
would just do better.

(01:04:28):
They would do better all around,and they would their digestion
would increase and their bowelswould clear up.
Things just got better allaround.
That now bang for their buck,they're getting more out of
their supplementation, bang fortheir buck, they're getting more
out of their food.
And overall, they're justthriving.
They they they've lit up, theirtheir overall health is doing
much better.
And so those are the mainaspects surrounding gut health

(01:04:51):
is that you know, candy toovergrowth, parasites, either
or, right?
And having to address those andmaking sure that we're absorbing
the nutrition, that we'regetting the nutrition, and that
you've got a good, healthy gutflora that's facilitating
already the production ofneurotransmitters before it even
has an opportunity for thenutrition to get into the

(01:05:12):
bloodstream.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:13):
Yeah, and I've over the years, like I started taking
because I had to go through thecandida protocol a few times
over the years.
And one of the things that Idiscovered was actually causing
a problem for me was when Iwould take antibiotics.
I had no idea that taking anantibiotic was going to destroy
my gut.
And so I had a few times when Iwas frustrated going through the

(01:05:34):
can, you know, that candidaprotocol because it takes like
three months to, you know, geteverything fixed.
And it's a lot of, you know, alot of like regimented like
taking pill, you know, havingthe pill organizer again and you
know doing all the things uhbecause it's you know taking the
probiotics and taking the oliveleaf extract or the things that
are antifungal.
It's a it's complicated for likethree months.

(01:05:56):
So it was really annoying to me.
And after the third time, I waslike, what is going on?
Like, what am I doing wrong?
And I called True Hope to liketalk to them about it, and they
helped me understand.
Like, they asked me, I thinkthat was again my question.
Like they said, well, have youtaken any antibiotics recently?
And I'm like, Oh yeah, I hadreally bad bronchitis this this
winter and I had a Z pack.
They said, Okay, in the future,if you need to take an

(01:06:18):
antibiotic, before you do that,call us, and we will help you
mitigate the effects of thatantibiotic so that you don't
completely destroy your guthealth.
So after that, I've never hadthe problem again.
Like anytime I don't takeantibiotics very often, anyway,
but there were a couple timesafter that that I did, and I've
called True Hope right away.
They gave me a protocol to makesure that I am mitigated the
effects of that.

(01:06:39):
So there's just like that's oneof the reasons why I am so
grateful for True Hope'scustomer support.
So grateful because there are somany things that we don't
understand, and unless you'vegone to school, like not school,
but like unless you've learneduh about all of these different
details and stuff, I'm alwaysamazed at how much the customer
support understands and knows.

(01:07:00):
You know, they'll say, Oh, well,this is this is why this is
happening, or this is why thisis happening.
And and and I'm so grateful tothe customer support.
There was a time when TrueHope's supplements were being
sold through uh uh MLM, and Ihad family members that knew I
was taking it, so they called meto, you know, they wanted to do
a presentation for me orwhatever.
And I said, Nope, sorry, like Icannot lose True Hope's customer

(01:07:23):
support.
I am not switching to anothersource.
Like, I need to stay with TrueHope because I trust the
customer support.
I don't know what I'm doing.
And even over the years, youknow, I've I've been on this for
15 years.
There are still times when Ineed to call and say, okay,
something's funky, you know,something going on.
Like my husband lost a job andit was a tremendously stressful
time.
And I called him, I'm like, Ican feel myself getting
depressed and like, okay, weneed to increase your nutrient

(01:07:45):
intake right now because you'reunder a lot of stress and you're
burning through it faster.
Like things like that.
I wouldn't know intuitively.
I have to call true hope andsay, okay, what do I do right
now?
Something's something's notright.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:54):
Yep.
Yeah, exactly.
The beautiful thing is thatwe've taken such a scientific
approach from day one wheretracking of symptoms is taking
place, database was established,you know, and we literally have
over a hundred thousand files ondatabase.
And they highlight and identifycertain patterns.
And when you see a patternemerge enough times, you can
say, this seems to be exactlywhat you anticipate given these

(01:08:17):
particular circumstances.
And so we were able to narrowthings down, like even coffee
consumption, how that'simpacting one's mental health,
and that, hey, somebody who'sdrinking five, six cups of
coffee, absolutely not.
If you want to get well, yougotta stop that.
You gotta, because you're you'reconstantly consuming literally a
stimulant, one that's in thesame class, in essence, even

(01:08:38):
though it's coming from anatural source, but it's it's
alongside things like Adderalland Concerta and Dexygen and
whatever, right?
Like you're messing with yourbrain, right?
And you're actually messatormessing with your serotonin
levels.
Coffee, one of the reasons whypeople are addicted is because
it enhances serotoninproduction, makes them feel
really nice.
And and so you know, we've beenable to identify those things,
and that's fantastic, so thatthen when you know a new staff

(01:09:01):
member comes in, they're able tobe trained on this, and that
that knowledge is you know kindof hardwired into the computers
literally with the database thatwe have all that information
there, it's not so easy lost,and you know, you can actually
anticipate that you're gonna getsomebody on the phone that's
gonna be able to assist youthrough the process in a very
professional way, regardless ofcredentials.

(01:09:22):
Why?
Because we're we've pioneeredthis field of mental health and
we're actually training doctorson it.
The uneducated is training thehighly educated.
That's backwards, but it'sappropriate given the
circumstances because wedeveloped these protocols, we've
figured these things out throughhard experience that others
weren't having, that weren'tgoing through that experience.
So we've really pioneered inthat field.

(01:09:43):
But going back to the wholeantibiotic thing, it's
interesting because um, youknow, I just want to touch on
this real quick.
I mean, there's a fantasticherbal antibiotic.
There's so many fantastic herbalantibiotics that don't create
the gut dysbiosis thatpharmaceutical antibiotics
create.
And that gut dysbiosis, thedestruction of the gut flora is
where what generally results inincreased depression and all

(01:10:06):
sorts of other symptoms.
And so the olive leaf extract,this is a Canadian label,
Canadian bottle, but the oliveleaf extract is a phenomenal
antibiotic.
It's what we use for theantifungal for knocking back
candida, but it's antibacterial,antiviral, antifungal,
antiparasitic, and it's aphenomenal antioxidant as well.

(01:10:26):
So it's just an all-aroundfantastic herb, and it doesn't
create the gut dysbiosis.
It just seems to knock back theopportunistic pathogens that are
um uh reaping havoc within us.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:39):
Yeah.
There's so many good productsthat you're you guys have done
so phenomenal research and andpioneered, like you said, you
guys are pioneers in this field,and it's incredible.
And one thing that I want towe're gonna come to a close
here, but one thing I want to uhreiterate and maybe talk just a
little bit about is the two keysto success with getting off of

(01:11:01):
medications, getting ontomicronutrients, and helping the
underlying sources of thesesymptoms heal are patience and
consistency.
And and talking about thepatience piece, one of the
things that's interesting,there's a lot more information
out there now on social mediaabout people getting off of
medications.
And so they go through, youknow, I've seen so many accounts
with people are talking abouttheir withdrawal process from

(01:11:24):
medications, and it'll go on foryears.
Like they'll they'll it's youhave to go super slow on their
taper because the withdrawalsare so awful and it'll take them
years.
And that sounds like a lot ofpeople think like uh I don't
want to do that.
Like, why would I do that?
And I always am so sad.
Frequently I'll go on there andI'll say, Have you tried like
adding in a micronutrient tothat process?

(01:11:47):
Because even though it soundslike a long time, true hope
significantly cuts down on thewithdrawal time.
One of the things that is in thebook, The Better Brain, they
talk about how the averagewithdrawal time, based on, you
know, depending on themedications you are you are on
when you get on True Hope'sproduct are six to twelve
months, which is significantlylower than any, you know, what

(01:12:10):
I'm seeing on social media wherepeople are going through this
draw withdrawal process for likethree years, right?
Because they have to don't godown so little so or so slow.
And and the withdrawal symptomsare significantly mitigated
because you're actually healingthe brain.
And the way that true hopeapproaches this is you know,
waiting until there's anindication of that, you know,

(01:12:31):
medication.
I'm sorry, I keep forgetting theword, but potentiation.
Potentiation.
You know, we're waiting for thatto start to happen, and then we
would then we we go down.
And what I have seen, I'll justmention this here too, is people
will experience you know theover medication symptoms, and
they will, you know, I alwayssay call true hope right away.
And if they if they recommend areduction, usually 48 to 72

(01:12:55):
hours of of that, you know, Idon't know if it's a medication
potentiation lasting that longor if it's or if it's
withdrawal, but it's about youknow 48 to 72 hours is what I've
seen on average.
I don't know what other peopleare experiencing.
So it doesn't last forever.
You know, it's it and and whenwe create that um withdrawal
pattern, that you know,titration pattern, they can see

(01:13:17):
what's happening.
So after as they've gone througha couple of cycles of of this
reduction, they can start to seethe pattern that they have and
they say, okay, about everythree to four weeks is when I
start to get over medicated, andthen I'll, you know, this will
last for about 72 hours, andthen I'll be okay for another,
you know, three to four weeks.
And when they start to see that,then it makes it easier for them
so that they, when they start togo into over medication, they

(01:13:40):
can look at their chart andlike, oh, it's been about four
weeks since I reduced.
It might be time to do thatagain, and they can call true
hope.
But it's so important to bepatient with this process,
though.
You don't want to go off tooquickly.
You don't want to, you know,I've I've seen that happen
before, and it always makes mesad when somebody's like, I
don't want to do this anylonger.
I just want to go off, andthey'll just go off their
medications and then they end upin like severe withdrawal.

(01:14:02):
I saw somebody one time thatwent into protracted withdrawal,
and so then they were dealingwith these withdrawal symptoms
much longer than than they wouldhave if they had just been
patient with the process.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:14):
Exactly.
And you know, so you have thepatience and you have the
consistency, and a big part ofit actually leading up to that
is the trust.
Um, and I know sometimes it'sit's hard.
It's you know, you're you'redealing with uh an organization
outside of the mainstream.
Uh you're not dealing withmainstream medical system that
that naturally is, you know,that trust is instilled in us as
we grow up, as we're taught inschool and all this type of

(01:14:34):
stuff.
That that's you know the highestlevel of health care, especially
in the Western world, right?
Our our health care dominatesall other healthcare is what
we're taught in essence.
Um but when we take a look atit, they're not able to do what
they need to do in relation tomental health.
Mental health outcomes havegotten worse progressively over
the decades, which shows thatthey they have failed miserably.
And so it's hard to put yourtrust in in something else or

(01:14:57):
someone else.
Um but in in relation to this, Imean, if you can move forward
with a level of trust, then thatpatience and the consistency um
is is enhanced significantlythat um that compliance isn't an
issue because compliance will uhyou know compliance issues.

(01:15:18):
I mean, we've we've worked withindividuals for a couple years
where you finally have to say,you know, maybe you want to go
do something else becausecompliance has been an issue
where they just they bombshellthemselves, they hit rock
bottom, and then you have topick them back up, and then
they're doing good again,they're starting to get there,
and all of a sudden they do itagain.
And it's a self-sabotagingbehavior, and they never get

(01:15:40):
well because they keep onhaving, they keep on taking
things into their own hands, andcompliance is is a major issue.
So compliance wouldn't be anissue if trust was there.
And so there's that aspect aswell is if you can learn to just
trust, right?
And I don't advocate blindlytrusting in anybody, but trust.
Go and research, go figure itout, go look at the science, go

(01:16:01):
look at the studies, go look atyou know, testimonials, go talk
to people, establish that trust,um, and you'll find that your
success rate is much higher.
And then going to the um, oh,what was I gonna mention?
I think it was in relation tothe withdrawal, withdrawing off
of medications.
So there's different ways thatit that it can be done, and and
we've taken or the six to twelvemonths is that's what it was,

(01:16:22):
was six to twelve months comingoff of medications on average,
based on uh what was mentionedin The Better Brain by Dr.
Bonnie Kaplan and Dr.
Julia Ruckledge.
Well, I would say in the vastmajority of circumstances, it's
actually quite a bit less thanthat.
Like quite a bit less than that.
And if somebody were justworking with me personally and
they were just on a simple, likejust an antidepressant, they
weren't on a benzo or somethinglike that, if they were working

(01:16:43):
with myself and my wife, my wifeused to do a lot more support
than I I've dabbled in it justenough to understand it enough
to be able to speak effectivelyto it.
But if if they were workingpersonally with us, we would
generally be looking at doingreductions.
We we fast track it and we wouldincrease the dosage higher on
the Empire Plus, which causesyou to need to withdraw faster,

(01:17:04):
right, off the medication.
So there's different ways ofdoing it, and Truope's taking a
more safe approach right now,oftentimes, in how they're doing
it.
Um but we're using some of theolder protocols that used to be
in place, and um, they can beequally as effective, but you
can also you need maybe a littlebit more attention given to the
particular individuals as you'redoing it, but you increase the
dosage of the Empire Plus, whichcauses the over medication to

(01:17:26):
happen faster, which means youneed to withdraw faster.
And oftentimes we can havesomebody off of a standard
antidepressant within aboutthree weeks fully, and then and
they do fine, right?
But you just need to be morecareful while you're going
through it that way.
There's variations to it, butyeah, so anywhere between
generally three weeks to itdepends on the individual if
they're on a benzodiazepine orsomething like that.

(01:17:47):
Sometimes it's a year-longwithdrawal process, and that's
when it's gets long and arduous,and it's really unfortunate, but
it's still worth it because it'sa much better quality of life
that they obtained through theprocess than they previously
had.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:01):
Absolutely.
So I will, as I mentionedbefore, I've been off of these
medications for 15 years now,and I my life is totally
different.
Like I couldn't have ex Icouldn't have imagined the life
that I have now.
And I I I want to go back just alittle bit to to make sure that
we have not scared anybody aboutthe the med release thing.

(01:18:24):
Med release is is just a realitythat you are it is it is what it
is, right?
You've you've been on thismedication, this is a reality,
and I feel like understandingwhat could potentially happen
and what the symptoms mean helpsto mitigate all of that because
I, you know, when I did gothrough, once I understood, you
know, that what med release was,after I had my unfortunate

(01:18:48):
experience with the livercleanse, I never did it again.
And when we moved again, I Ialready knew, like, okay, so I
stopped training for triathlons.
I would just do sometimes Iwould do road races, but I
didn't do intense exercise.
Like I would just kind of do, II'm very consistent with you
know walking.
I don't run anymore,unfortunately.
I'm getting too old.
I don't want to my knees don'tlike it.
But but I I know I do exerciseconsistently because that is

(01:19:10):
good for my mental health, but Idon't do super intense exercise
anymore.
I could probably try it now.
I just don't have any desire todo it anymore, frankly.
But once I once I understoodwhat was happening, if I started
to have a med release, I startedto understand what that looked
like for me.
And I would call true hope andsay, I'm in a med release, and
then they would just I alwayscalled true hope.
I didn't ever just do it myselfbecause there were often like

(01:19:35):
variables that I wasn't thinkingabout where True Hope had
improved their protocols, theyhad improved their knowledge at
that point, you know, because ithad been a couple years.
And so it was always helpful forme to call True Hope and say,
okay, what do I do?
I I think I'm having a medrelease.
I would tell them thecircumstances and the symptoms I
was experiencing, and I wouldstart drinking whey protein
isolate four times a day.

(01:19:55):
Increase my fiber too, becauseall that protein going into my
body didn't make my digestivesystem super happy.
But but it was, it just made itso I I could handle it, you
know, and it was once in awhile.
It wasn't happening all thetime.
It wasn't on a regular basis.
I was having an like once everycouple years, I would I would go
through this, right?
And over time, it just got tothe point where my body was

(01:20:16):
healed.
I didn't have medication in mysystem anymore, and everything
is great.
And in the past, if I misseddoses of true hope, I noticed
it.
But I had something happen lastyear where I was gone away for
at a retreat for a few days andleft my pills sitting on my
counter in my bathroom andfreaked out when I got up there.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't gowith you know, three days
without these my micronutrients,but I couldn't do anything about

(01:20:38):
it.
Like I panicked, I was like, Iwas too far away, I was like
three hours away from home.
I was too far to ask my husbandto drive him to me.
So I was just like crossing myfingers, I hope I survived the
weekend, right?
And I had this worry in the backof my head because I had not
gone that long without them inyears, and I was fine.
I I was tired by the end of theweek, or by the end of those

(01:20:59):
three days, like I could tell,like I haven't taken my
micronutrients, but I didn'tbecome symptomatic.
I wasn't like because my brainhad healed and I was, you know,
and I'm forever grateful I willnever stop taking true hope
supplements because they theygive my brain what it needs to
function in a healthy way.
Like, why would it's kind oflike stopping eating?
Like now that I know my brainneeds this and I can't get it

(01:21:19):
through my diet, why would Istop taking that?
And so it's not like I I hadsomebody say, Well, do you have
to take those for the rest ofyour life?
And I'm like, I get to take themfor the rest of my life.
Like, I am so grateful that Ihave them.
Like, why I'm not gonna stopeating.
You know, do you have to eat forthe rest of your life?
Yes, of course I have to eat forthe rest of my life, right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:38):
So, anyway, yeah, what an inconvenience that we
have to keep on, you know,drinking, right?
Like, that's just so unfortunatethat we have to drink.
Do we have to do that for therest of our life?

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:46):
I know.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:46):
If you want to live, you do.
Yeah.
And if you want to live well.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:50):
Well, and that's the thing that's so so incredible,
is one other thing that I wantto mention here, just so that
we're kind of rounding out thetalk about you know, symptoms,
is there are other sources ofsymptoms that people can have
that will lead to symptoms ofbipolar.
I and so somebody can have likesevere trauma in their childhood
that doesn't get resolved,causes dysregulation in the

(01:22:10):
brain, you develop unhealthycoping mechanisms as a result
that then continues to producesymptoms.
You know, we can have again,we've talked about drug the
symptoms that can come from druguse, and it can come from
illicit drug use as well as asprescription drug use.
Like you can get these symptoms,you know, that come from those
sources.
But getting true hope into mysystem, helping my brain heal

(01:22:33):
from the effects of themedication, getting then the
adequate levels ofmicronutrients so that my brain
could function in a healthy way,actually cleared the way for me
to resolve the other sources ofsymptoms.
It made it possible for me toprocess emotions in a healthy
way so that when I went to, whenI figured out how to use therapy
to heal, that I was actuallyable to heal.
Like I was able to go in andhandle going through EMDR to

(01:22:56):
process severe trauma in mypast.
And I was able to, you know,work with the therapist and my
brain was functioning in ahealthy way so that I could
actually resolve, you know,acknowledge, recognize, and
resolve unhealthy copingmechanisms.
And so it's really important toremember, again, symptoms are
information, and we need to lookat the symptoms for what they
are.
Our brain is communicating aneed instead of just trying to

(01:23:19):
shut it up.
You know, I think I mentioned inone of the previous episodes, I
heard this really fantasticthing from Josef Witt During,
Dr.
Joseph Witt During on on socialmedia, where he said taking an
antidepressant when you'redepressed is like turning the
fire alarm off.
You know, it's it is there's afire, it doesn't resolve the
fire, it just shuts off thealarm.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:38):
Absolutely.
And then the same thing goeswith pain meds and all that type
of stuff.
All you're doing is shuttingoff, in essence, the fire alarm,
you're you're shutting offsignaling in the body, and that
signaling is necessary to getthe body to do certain things.
So I, you know, I I can attestto that example is I I shattered
my arm a few years back in a caraccident, flipped over from the
wind, blew the trailer over, thetruck went with it, and my arm

(01:23:59):
blew through the window and drugin the ditch and literally
completely snapped.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:03):
So fainful.

SPEAKER_00 (01:24:04):
Oh, it was it was it was amazing, really.
Uh great experience when I lookback at it, but um had a little
bit of trauma associated becauseI thought my arm was actually
decapitated because it wasn'twhere it I thought I was holding
it because there was a 90-degreebend in my bicep with the arm
dangling down and blooddripping.
But, anyways, so triggerwarning, by the way.

(01:24:26):
So they get me into theambulance and they immediately
put a little pick line in me,right?
I'm like, oh, what are youputting that there for?
Well, so that we can putmorphine into you.
I said, You're not puttingmorphine into me, absolutely
not.
And they're like, oh, okay,right?
Like that's standard protocol.
No, not gonna happen.
So, okay, whatever.
So I get into the emergencyroom, can of the medicine here,
Canadian socialized medicine.
It took them four and a halfhours before they were cleaning

(01:24:47):
up my large open wounds andstuff like that on my arm.
And they finally got a cast onthe arm, a shiker tong cast to
hold it in a position so thathopefully the bones would would
fuse back together because itwas completely severed.
Unfortunately, it didn't comeprotruding through the muscle,
though, otherwise it would havebeen surgery.
So, anyways, the doctor comesand says, There's no badges of
honor here for you know bravery.

(01:25:07):
Like you can just take themedication.
I said, I'm not like I'm notgonna take the medication.
Yeah, it hurts.
It should hurt, but I'm not thatmuch in pain, which is probably
due to the fact that I also havenatural painkillers in me at all
times, not shutting offreceptors or shutting off
signaling, but things likeorganic sulfur or methyl
sulfenomethane and stuff likethat, which is a natural

(01:25:28):
painkiller, naturalanti-inflammatory, good for
joint health, good for yourknees, so you can keep on
running, that type of thing,right?
And so I constantly have these,and it's a mineral.
So I have these things in mybloodstream throughout the day,
every day, and so I probablydon't feel pain like most people
do.
And so what was interestingthough, is he's like, tomorrow
the pain's gonna be worse.

(01:25:48):
And it wasn't, and there'ssomething to that because it
likely would have had I been onthe pain meds, because I would
have shut off the initial painsignaling that would have
allowed the body to startdealing with it, and then the
next day, all of a sudden, thepain that I didn't experience
would probably be exponentiated.

(01:26:09):
Whereas progressively, day afterday, it just got better.
Like the pain reduced on itsown, the way that it probably
should have, because I refusedto take a pain med to suppress,
to shut off the fire alarm, toprevent the body from ultimately
acting and and responding theway that it should do in a

(01:26:30):
normal, healthy environment.
So the same thing with anantidepressant, absolutely.
That when you start taking thesemedications, you are literally
just you're either shuttingthings off.
Well, generally, you're justshutting things off, like
serotonin, uh selectiveserotonin reuptake inhibitor,
you're shutting off the abilityfor it to re-uptake the
serotonin.
Antipsychotics oftentimes arejust dopamine blockers, they're
just blocking it, suppressingit.

(01:26:52):
So it's not healthy for the bodyto just shut those processes
off.
You want to embrace thoseprocesses and just make sure
that they're put into afunctional state by supplying
all of the nutrition that youneeded all along.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:04):
Yeah.

unknown (01:27:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:06):
This has been phenomenal.
I I'm so glad that we did thisseries because it's I think that
there are a lot of things thatpeople don't really understand
about micronutrition.
They don't understand, again,because we have pathologized
these symptoms and we havecreated a medical diagnosis out
of it.
There's a psychologicaldependence on medications.
There's this idea that we haveto take medications.

(01:27:27):
People accept the idea that thebest they can expect out of
their life is learning how tosuffer well with their disorder,
right?
And the reality is that peopledo not have to live with this
for the rest of their lives.
The reality is that it ispossible to address the
underlying sources of thesymptoms, heal the brain, and
help it function in a healthyway.

(01:27:48):
And if you have, if you haveother additional sources of
symptoms, if there have beenlike, you know, if you have
trauma in your past, this thismicronutrients helps number one,
resolve one of the underlyingsources of your symptoms,
because most people don't get asufficient level of nutrition.
And so that's why there has beensuch a dramatic increase in the
number of people being diagnosedwith these quote unquote

(01:28:09):
disorders.
But then it also makes itpossible for you to actual
actually process those, youknow, the trauma to, you know,
to get your brain functioning ina healthy way so that you can
then do the work necessary toheal the other sources of your
symptoms.
And I am I am proof.
I people question me all thetime.
I am gonna say this on herebecause people question me all

(01:28:31):
the time.
They're like, well, you don'tknow, you won't know until like
three years down the road whenyou have your next episode.
And I'm like, I actually doknow.
We have been through some of themost incredible stressors over
the past five years in ourfamily.
We've lost a child, we've had tomove, you know, we had to sell
under distressing circumstances.
We lost a job and went with acouple years without a job.
Like, we have been throughintense major stressors, and I

(01:28:54):
have not had, I've not becomesymptomatic.
Like I've had normal emotionalresponses to it, but it wasn't
like distressing, ending up inthe hospital, ending up
dysfunctional.
You know, I I can absolutely saywithout any hesitation, I know
that I have healed.
I am completely recovered.
I would never be diagnosed witha mental health disorder anymore
because I don't have thoseissues any longer.

(01:29:16):
I have resolved all theunderlying sources of the
symptoms and I have healed.
It is possible to completelyrecover, it is possible to heal.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:24):
I I think, you know, it's something I can relate to,
but uh just the loss of a child,that alone is about as much as
you can be put to the test.
And if you pass that testwithout ending up in that
situation, that in itself speaksvolumes.
And uh sadly, my wife and I cancan attest to that as well.
Having lost a child, um, there'sI don't think there's anything

(01:29:45):
um worse that a parent can gothrough than than losing a
child.
So um that in itself, I think,is the answer right there.
Are you well?
Did you make it through that?
Yeah.
Yeah, if you make if you canmake it through that without
losing your mind, then I thinkyou're Pretty stable.
I think your mind is healed.
I think your brain is workingthe way that it's supposed to.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:04):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Are there any last comments, anyany final words that you want to
offer to the audience?
Sorry, that's putting you on thespot.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:14):
No, no, no, no, no, no, that's okay.
No, I think we covered off themedication thing pretty well
enough that uh that hopefully itinstills a level of confidence
in people that when they phonethe the Truop Support Center
that they're they're willing totake the advice that's been
established over the lastsolidly established over 25
years now.
I mean it started almost 30years ago, but it's been well
documented now for well over 25years.

(01:30:35):
So, you know, I think we'vewe've done a good enough job
there without getting into thenitty-gritty, because oftentimes
the nitty-gritty isn't evenapplicable to many people.
I mean, there's so manydifferent pathways that they can
that they end up going based onthe the medications that they're
on, the cocktail medications,right?
How long they've been on them,what's going on in their life.
I mean, the protocol is gonna becustom tailored for them.
And so I think we did a fairlygood job there in communicating

(01:30:59):
that.
You know, in relation to theoverall true story, there is the
the the Piffany film that wasrecently produced, and maybe we
want to put that in the in thenotes there.
Um phenomenal, very emotionallycompelling film.
Um very well done.
Independent film producerslooked at it and said this story
needs to be told.
And he went out on a limb and heproduced it, and um it's uh it's

(01:31:22):
generating some fantasticfeedback.
And so perhaps that that makingthat film available would be a
great thing.
But aside from that, um I've gotnothing else for for today that
I'm aware of.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:33):
Absolutely.
Well, thank you so much.
And I do want to tell theaudience if you are not already
a member of the Upsiders Tribeand you do want to go through
the healing process and you wantsupport going through this
process, the Upsiders Tribe willoffer that support.
You know, we we have sevenmodules in that in that program.
It's based on my book, TheUpside of Bipolar, Seven Steps
to Heal Your Disorder.
And there's an entire chapterdedicated to the cross-titration

(01:31:57):
process.
I talk about my own experiencewith it.
I talk about the true hopestory, I talk about the lessons
that I learned.
And each, you know, there'sthere's talk about over
medication and withdrawal andmed releases.
So that's a really fantasticresource.
So I would encourage you, if youhave not read that book yet,
please go get a copy of thebook.
And if you or would like helpwalking through this healing

(01:32:17):
process, please make sure youcheck out the you know, the
Upsiders Tribe.
And if you are ready to getstarted with True Hope, I will
make sure that this is linked inthe in the show notes, but
please give them a call.
Go to their website, they've gotall kinds of resources on there
for you to learn more about,like David talked about, like
gaining trust in their what theyhave to offer.
They have a tab there that goesthrough all of the studies that

(01:32:40):
have been done on there.
You can go through and see, andit's I love how that that it's
broken down by categories.
So if you have a you knowsomebody that you love or if you
struggle with ADHD symptoms,there are studies on ADHD,
there's studies on OCD, there'sstudies on bipolar.
It's really phenomenal that thatall of that research is there.
And this is all independentresearch.
True Hope did not commission anyof this research.

(01:33:00):
This is all research that hasbeen done independent of them,
because there are doctors andresearchers that recognize the
value of what they have and theywere curious about application
in certain areas.
So they would take it and theywould test it.
And this is all the results ofthose studies.
That was actually what convincedmy doctor to give me the
go-ahead to try it, was lookingat the at the research that had

(01:33:21):
been done on this product.
And he said, Well, this lookslike a viable option, you know,
and I was, I will forever begrateful that he was open to
that because I don't know if Iwould have trusted it if it
hadn't been that way.
Now I look back and I'm like,who cares what he said?
You know, like I need to trustmy own intuition, you know, and
this this like literally savedmy life.
And then the other thing that'son there is there, True Hope has

(01:33:41):
a lot of products out, you know,that are available now that, you
know, in in addition to M PowerPlus, you know, like you talked
about the olive leaf extracts,you talked about the amino
power.
There are a lot of products inthere, and you can go in there
and learn about what the productdoes.
And again, the best resource isTrue Hope's customer support.
They are phenomenal.
They really help you understandthe process, they will walk you

(01:34:03):
through that process, they willguide you.
And if you decide to do this,listen to them, follow their
instructions to the T, and youwill be successful in getting
off the medications and helpingyour brain heal and moving
forward on the path to recovery.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:17):
Awesome.
What you're doing is amazing,Michelle.
The resources that you'reproviding and and you know, just
some accolades for your book.
Very well written.
So just awesome.
Love it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:34:26):
Thank you.
Thank you.
I was not trolling for acompliment, but I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:30):
Well, compliments due.
Well, yeah, credit is due.
We're uh I'm locking the wordsnow.

SPEAKER_01 (01:34:37):
I know, we're tired.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:38):
Two podcasts today.
This is the second one, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:34:41):
Absolutely.
All right, thank you so much,David, and I am confident we'll
have you on again in the future.
But thank you for this last thislast three episodes have been
phenomenal.
And again, if you have notlistened to the previous two
episodes, I encourage you to goback and listen to them.
They are so informative.
There's so much greatinformation that will help you
understand how to help heal yourbrain using micronutrition.

(01:35:02):
All right.
Thank you very much, David.

SPEAKER_00 (01:35:04):
Awesome.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:06):
All right, until next time, upsiders.
Thanks for joining me on theUpside of Bipolar.
Your journey to recoverymatters, and I'm grateful you're
here.
For more resources, visitwww.theupsideofbipolar.com.

(01:35:26):
If you're ready to dive deeper,grab my book, The Upside of

Bipolar (01:35:29):
Seven Steps to Heal Your Disorder.
If you're ready to heal yoursymptoms, join my monthly
membership, The Upsiders Tribe,to transform chaos into hope.
Until next time, Upsiders

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EP 72: Micronutrients, Medication Tapers, And Real Recovery with David Stephan, VP of Truehope

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