November 7, 2024 • 29 mins
Lea and Drew Lachey have been reaching audiences for decades as singers, choreographers, and performers on screens big and small. Now they’re turning their sights from just entertaining people, to encouraging them to be the best of humanity. We were so pleased to welcome Lea to the podcast studio to talk about their project – a musical called label-less.
“It's really just about human stories” - Lea Lachey on the show label-less
As Lea and Drew describe the show, “You’re invited to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes. Using contemporary music, powerful choreography and personal stories to spread a message of Heart, Humanity and Hope.” Lea joined Jackie in the podcast studio to talk about how the show came about, how she’s handling criticism of some of the monologues in the show, and her visit with the cast to the Holocaust & Humanity Center that left them feeling, “so empowered.”
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This episode is part of the Cynthia & Harold Guttman Family Center for Storytelling. Subscribe here to make sure you don’t miss a thing https://www.youtube.com/@holocaustandhumanity
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Episode Resources
Find out more about label-less
https://www.labellessmusical.com/
https://www.lacheyarts.com/labelless
Assess your own character strengths for free https://www.holocaustandhumanity.org/upstander/assess-your-character-strengths/
Visit the VIA Institute on Character to learn more about all 24 character strengths
https://www.viacharacter.org/character-strengths
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jackie Congedo (00:03):
Music. These are your superpowers, positive
character strengths. You havethem, all of them, some more
than others, what
Dr. Neal Mayerson (00:11):
we are best suited to do in our lives
connects with who we are and ourcharacter strengths,
Jackie Congedo (00:19):
standing up strong, activating your
superpowers is how you canchange the world,
Dr. Neal Mayerson (00:25):
and you're pioneering the future of
humanity.
Jackie Congedo (00:27):
Let's start right now. I'm Jackie Congedo.
What are the labels that havebeen put on you over the course
of your life? Do they fit you ordo they feel heavy? What if you
could just take them off? Inthis episode, we're sitting down
with Lea Lachey. She and herhusband, Drew, are using their
strengths of creativity andperseverance and many more to
(00:50):
develop and produce a musicalcalled label-less. It's about
the labels we put on ourselvesand each other and the humanity
that can be revealed when welook past them and truly
connect. So it is so exciting tobe joined by the Lea Lachey.
Lea Lachey (01:06):
Thank you
Jackie Congedo (01:07):
of Lachey arts and of our wonderful city, who
this has really been a passionproject for you and for Drew
Lea Lachey (01:15):
Absolutely.
Jackie Congedo (01:16):
I'm wondering, before we get into sort of the
nitty gritty, I want you to justtake me back to the very
beginning of how this wholething started.
Lea Lachey (01:22):
Oh, wow. Okay, so we were living in Los Angeles, and
we decided that we wanted toraise our family here, right?
You know, that's the wholeCincinnati thing, right? People
joke that it sucks you back. Itfelt right. We wanted to be
around family and just reallybuild a really great community
around our kids. The dream wasto give back in some way to
(01:45):
young artists. We started ournon profit Lachey Arts, and I'd
say, about three years in, aftercreating different shows, we did
a simple theater exercise in aclass, and it was about maybe
how you weren't feeling seen, orhow you were feeling
discriminated against. We hadthe students write down
(02:05):
anonymously on pieces of paper.
We didn't know who said what,the story goes. We went home
that night, we spread them outon the counter, cried, and it
was just it was very apparentthat there were things going on
in our students lives, right? Sonow we're personally connected
to that and and the show wasborn, but it was, it happened
(02:26):
organically and naturally. Neverdid we set out to, you know, we,
we're gonna build a musicaltonight. You know, it wasn't
that at all. And so it's been, Ican't believe I'm saying this
seven years, seven years. What apassion project. We jokingly
call it our third child. I loveit. I think it's, it's changing
(02:47):
hearts and minds, and there's nobetter way, right? In creating
art where people are, like,getting up out of the theater,
yeah, and they're moved, andthey're I would like to think
that maybe they're becomingbetter people. Yeah,
Jackie Congedo (03:05):
right, yeah.
It's an incredibly immersiveexperience. Taking a walk,
that's one of the songs, takinga walk in someone else's shoes,
yeah? And the fact that you havebeen able to sort of cast this
for the past seven years withpeople who actually have had
these experiences, or who have,who have had these labels
(03:31):
projected on them, right? Thatit's an authentic experience for
the people who are singing andacting.
Lea Lachey (03:37):
Absolutely.
Jackie Congedo (03:38):
I mean acting.
They are acting, but they are...
they're acting their own story,right? Which is really powerful.
How have you been able tonavigate, you know, keeping that
authenticity at the heart of theproduction?
Lea Lachey (03:48):
Well, I think that these young artists are
gravitating towards label-less.
They want to be a part of it,because it's something new and
unique, right? So, so yes, theyare performing, and they have
to, obviously be trained, andthey're professional performers,
but at the same time, they'rebrave. They're so brave. And to
kind of explain it a littlebetter, you know, we call them
(04:09):
now, they're monologues, right?
But they started with justsimple stories, and so with each
cast member that comes in, thereis a slight tweak to that
monologue. You know, forinstance, sexism. When someone
new comes in, they might have anew story to tell that they want
to share, so it slightlychanges. And then I think that
(04:29):
that's where you really see, youknow, an honest connection with
the artists, and that's why theaudience is so moved, because
that performer is on stagereally telling their story,
yeah, and
Jackie Congedo (04:43):
it comes across, I mean, just the authenticity of
yeah in the whole thing. I mean,you have the authenticity of the
stories, but the way the music,I think, the original pieces,
but also some of the covers thatyou guys do, the way they're
performing. Form the way you canjust tell that. It's like living
within the people who aresinging these songs and the
(05:06):
choreography, which is so Imean, that was probably the
first thing I mentioned when,after I was super proud of that,
fortunate enough to get a littlesneak peek behind the scenes,
but watching how, you know,organic, the choreography is,
but it seems it's seamless, andit's like,
Lea Lachey (05:25):
Thank you. You know, everyone's
Jackie Congedo (05:27):
totally on.
There is a very deliberate,intentional move towards looking
like it's not intentional, yes,
Lea Lachey (05:34):
I love that you're bringing that up, because I and
think some people just thinklike, oh yeah, when you're just
walking and, you know, eachbreath is thought out and touch
each grab, each movement of thescaffolding, which we do, you
know, a lot of movement withthose pieces within the show.
But to me, movement isstorytelling too, and
choreography. And so I wanted itto have a pedestrian feel, but
(05:58):
at the same time, break out anddo these beautiful, you know,
technical things, yeah,super proud of it.
Jackie Congedo (06:04):
Yeah, it's beautiful. So back at the
beginning, as you're looking atthese stories and saying, like,
oh my gosh, this has to be told.
And I love the art form. I mean,I'm a little biased. I'm a
musical theater nerd, like, Ijust, I love that. I I think
that when you put somebody in ablack box and immerse them in an
experience like they can't helpbut come away feeling changed in
(06:25):
some way. It's all of thethings. It's the art form that
just surrounds you and gets inyou and you can't, can't get it
out once it's in you, right? So,you know, forcing people really,
actually, to confront someoneelse's humanity in such an
immersive way. Yeah? So asyou're looking at these stories,
and you're trying to figure out,okay, what do we do with this,
(06:47):
I'm wondering, like even beforethat, what prompted you to ask
the question, like, have youknow these labels, right, that
we have for each other, forourselves? I mean, have you ever
felt that on you? Have you
Lea Lachey (07:01):
absolutely
Jackie Congedo (07:02):
Yeah, I'm just wondering, like, how do
Lea Lachey (07:03):
As a woman in this industry, 100% I've been in many
rooms where I feel like I maybehave to fight my way to the top,
Jackie Congedo (07:08):
Right
Lea Lachey (07:10):
Right? And so you think that those things go away
right? I'm sure you felt thattoo, whereit's maybe you should
and they don't, yeah, and so,you know what? I don't know.
listen to me. I mean, I knowwhat I'm doing, right? So I get
that. One of those pieces ofpaper that immediately and I
What prompted us to ask thatquestion that day in that class,
remember where it was, where Iwas standing in the kitchen, was
about this young girl, again, Idon't know who said what, where
Something moved us. I'm glad welistened to it. I'm glad that we
(07:33):
the uncle said, "Well, you'llnever do that, and you'll never
be anything, because your placeis in the kitchen." And so for
me, you know, when I read that,I thought, what? My God, what
year arewe in?
(08:03):
listened to our voice, right,that that voice deep down and
and I'm also really glad that Iwanted to, and I'm gonna say I
because Drew goes well, Lea didit. But
Jackie Congedo (08:15):
you would agree
Lea Lachey (08:17):
credit where credit's due. I wanted to, dig
into that. There was...
something told me there'ssomething here. And so it just
started as like, I mean,literally, it just started as
like, let's play with this song.
It was a Mumford and sons songthat opened the show. And then
it it built. And then all of asudden, more people start
gravitating towards it. And allof a sudden, you know, it was
(08:39):
set in a high school setting atfirst, and when you have
students that are peeking intothe door in the rehearsal room
and kind of going, what is this?
Wait a minute, I think I want tobe part of this. You know,
you're on to something. And thenit's evolved, right? And so now
the cast is 17 to 27 year olds.
Jackie Congedo (09:02):
So this was at SCPA, right?
Lea Lachey (09:03):
Yes. So we were, we were teaching a class at SCPA.
We ran the musical theaterprogram for 10 years there. And
so it was. It was born and bredhere in Cincinnati. The next
show we did was the OTR FilmFest, and that sold out very
quickly. And you know that, thenyou know you've got these, this
(09:26):
whole different generations ofpeople in the audience that are
connected to the piece. So now,as a director and a producer,
you start to watch that, and yougo, Okay, it's not just kids.
Yeah, right now, parents andgrandparents and neighbors, and
we were bombarded with emailsand calls, and so I was like,
(09:46):
Okay, I'm gonna keep I'm gonnakeep working on this. And then
it just snowballs, right? Andthen it's, you're putting it in
New York. I mean, we've been inNew York twice now, which is not
nothing, not. Nothing. It'ssuper exciting. Yeah. I think
the thing, ultimately, right nowthat I'm the most proud of is
(10:06):
the fact that we're creatingsomething new and different.
Yeah, you know, with the goalbeing Broadway in the West End,
we've added that to the list.
Where it's, Hey, man, I wantpeople to look at this later and
go, "Oh,you mean likelabel-less?" Yeah, I want to, I
want to do that, yeah, I want todo that kind of work, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Jackie Congedo (10:24):
That's trailblazing work.
Lea Lachey (10:26):
You know, I'm trying
Jackie Congedo (10:28):
pretty good at that. We know a thing or two
about trailblazing, yeah, no, Ithat that is true, and it's,
it's one of the best things - inthe short time I've known you -
about you, I think. I'mwondering also, you know, is
there a piece of feedback you'vegotten from the show that has
(10:49):
caused you to pivot or cause youto think differently? I mean,
you know, we all love a standingovation
Lea Lachey (10:58):
Absolutely.
Jackie Congedo (10:59):
And sometimes, I think with this work, it's the
people who aren't standing andclapping who most need to hear
it and see it. And so, you know,trying to, like, walk the line
where you want to hold to theauthenticity of the stories, but
you're trying to reach someonethat's not the choir, and how do
(11:20):
we bring them in in a way that'schallenging and immersive, but
like welcoming and safe forpeople to go on their own
journey of learning and kind ofmove them along, right? I mean,
have you wrestled with that atall? Or,
Lea Lachey (11:32):
Oh my god, yes, yes, oh yeah, from the very
beginning, I'll probably jumpall over the place, but you
know, we made a choice the verybeginning to not talk about
religion or politics. It wasjust really important to us, and
it's really just about humanstories. I kind of feel like it
(11:52):
shouldn't really be politicalwhen you're getting up and
telling your story. I mean, Iwould say from the very
beginning, people start to get alittle fearful of things that
they are not educated in. Right?
I would be lying if I sat hereand said that I did not have
phone calls with people thathave asked me to take certain
sections out of the show. So Ido think that you have to be
(12:15):
very strong and bold. And I havesaid point blank to people I
know what you're asking, andyou're asking me to take out
racism and homophobia, and Iwon't do that, because that's
erasing someone's story, notgoing to do it. And I also think
you're right. I think the peoplethat you really want to touch
with that message, because, yes,it's lovely, the choreography,
(12:38):
and people are standing andthey're they're blown away by
the talent and the music.
Jackie Congedo (12:44):
The talent is breathtaking.
Lea Lachey (12:46):
They're amazing.
Yeah, they're so amazing.
Jackie Congedo (12:48):
It's, really, I don't know where you find these
kids, but
Lea Lachey (12:49):
all over the world now, all over the world, it's,
it's incredible. But yes, ifwe're, if we're being honest,
those people that sit there andare super quiet when you can
hear a pin drop. I won't namethe state that we were in. It
was very eye opening ascreators, and from the cast
perspective of you know, whenyou can - there's a silence in
(13:12):
the theater. It's hard to nottake that personally, like, are
we doing something wrong? Butthen you're like, well, we're
not doing anything wrong. Thisis what this is. And so, yeah. I
mean, I like to think sometimeswhen people are sitting there
and they're quiet, hopefullythey're really thinking about
it, yeah,
Jackie Congedo (13:28):
right, absolutely. I mean, that's,
that's the most that I think isthe most powerful outcome, yeah,
when you have people who aren'tjust, well, I don't want to say
that, because I think there issomething to say about seeing
your story told by someone elseon stage, and feeling like,
"That is how I felt. That makesme feel seen." And that's, you
(13:50):
know, we've all had thatexperience in watching art, yes,
you know, experiencing it insome way, whether that's theater
or visual art or, you know,music, to say, Wow, they really
nailed that. I mean, think aboutlike, the phenomenon of Taylor
Swift. Why is Taylor Swift whoshe is? Right? It's because
she's spoken to now generationsof people who feel seen in her
(14:11):
music. Yep. And so, you know, Ithink it's, I don't want to
understate that. I think it isreally important when you have
people standing up and clappingand saying, That's me, and you
nailed it. And the opportunityis to say, can we help other
people who don't have thoseexperiences, who don't have that
right, those encounters everyday, understand a little bit
(14:32):
better that there are peoplewalking around living these
lives Yes, and living thishumanity, yes.
Lea Lachey (14:38):
And I think the beautiful thing in that is
right, like the flip side ofthat quiet and that uneasy,
unsettling vibe that sometimesis in the theater, yeah, are the
people that are just sometimesgrabbing the cast and hugging,
you know, to the point where Ihave never felt so seen. And so
you're right, I mean, and youknow. Labels is bringing out
(15:01):
people that are not thetraditional theater goer too.
Jackie Congedo (15:03):
Yeah
Lea Lachey (15:03):
Super proud of that.
Jackie Congedo (15:04):
Oh, yeah, that's, I mean, that's a just
giving people the opportunity toexperience the power of the arts
is really cool.
Lea Lachey (15:10):
Yeah
Jackie Congedo (15:11):
Okay, so you we were talking about feeling seen,
and I think that's probably agood place to pivot to the
intersection of our work. Somaybe I should just, I'm going
to jump off the feeling seen,and then I'm going to circle
back, we at the Holocaust andHumanity Center do - it reminded
me of we have these youthleadership days where we bring
in teenagers and we we do a lotof work. There's Holocaust
(15:36):
education, of course, butthere's also a lot of character
development and sort ofstrengths work that we do
positive psychology, strength,not necessarily weightlifting,
although that would be kind ofcool,
Lea Lachey (15:47):
to be cool, we could maybe do that positive
Jackie Congedo (15:49):
psychology.
Maybe do that positivepsychology work. And one of the
exercises is strength spotting.
And so what we do is we give thekids a stack of cards. And it
says, I noticed the strength ofx in x, and you are supposed to
fill out one of the 24 characterstrengths, and whoever you see
exhibiting that, and give it tothem. And you have to give out
(16:10):
all five by the time the day isover. And it seems like the most
simple thing, but the feedbackwe get from this activity, I
mean, there's, there's this oneon, like, a little written
feedback form, a question thatwas an open ended, like, is
there something that you knowwas really meaningful for you
(16:31):
about this day? And this one inher, in her, you know, in her
high school, handwriting wrote,I've never felt so seen, whoa.
Lea Lachey (16:40):
There it is, right.
There it is. Yeah, so,
Jackie Congedo (16:44):
and you know, I think in following up with her,
she had said, yeah, people keptgiving me, I've seen the
strength of humor in you. AndI'm like, I'm not a funny
person. But apparently peoplethink I'm funny, I'm funny,
which is like, and then we'vehad other kids say it was this
other girl who had this amazingexperience where she had they
their school had asked her togive their like senior address
(17:05):
to the class. And she was like,that's not me. I'm not I can't
do that. I and so then there wasthis experience. She came with
her class, she got all of thesecards that said, I saw the
strength of leadership in you.
Lea Lachey (17:16):
Wow.
Jackie Congedo (17:16):
And after that, she went back to her teacher and
said, I think I actually want todo this, because people see that
I have the strength. I don't seeit in myself.
Lea Lachey (17:24):
Yeah.
Jackie Congedo (17:25):
So anyway, feeling seen is something that
really resonates, okay, and nowI'm gonna say that for a long
time, I feel like people havebeen telling you about us and us
about you.
Lea Lachey (17:36):
Yes, oh my gosh, so
Jackie Congedo (17:39):
label-less and the Holocaust and Humanity
Center have been concentriccircles,
Lea Lachey (17:42):
yes,
Jackie Congedo (17:42):
for a while, and when we met, and I got to see
what you all have produced, andthen, you know, you brought the
cast down for a tour, which wasso special,
Lea Lachey (17:51):
so special,
Jackie Congedo (17:52):
I think it was really clear that, like, there's
a lot of synergy and connectionhere.
Lea Lachey (17:56):
Yes,
Jackie Congedo (17:57):
I'm wondering, in your words, if you can share
a little bit about, like, whatthat has been like for you, or
where you noticed there to bethis connection in our work?
Lea Lachey (18:05):
Well, immediately, when I met you, clearly we hit
it off, right? And I feel likeyou got what we were doing.
And I think thatthat speaks volumes, because I
Jackie Congedo (18:12):
yeah.
think there's a lot of peoplethat, oh, cool, a show fun, oh
yeah.
"Songs are pretty."
Lea Lachey (18:21):
They're so pretty.
So you really understood thatthere was more than just a show,
Jackie Congedo (18:25):
yeah
Lea Lachey (18:25):
So that, you know, right off the bat, but bringing
the cast down that day. I mean,I can't tell you how many times,
well, first of all, lots oftears.
Jackie Congedo (18:34):
Yeah, right, yeah,
Lea Lachey (18:38):
yeah. Me gets me choked up now thinking about it,
it. It was such a special momentfor us. We don't take what we do
lightly. And I think thatsitting there that day and and
listening and the wording too,so very similar the shoes, yeah,
(18:59):
yeah, that whole time when wewere sitting there after and
having lunch, and, you know, theregroup of, what did, what did
we see? I mean, I as as I walkedthrough the museum, and I would
pass different cast members,everyone say, Oh, my God, we
have to go read this, becausethat's, that's like, what we
say, you know, and so I thinkit's, I think it's really
(19:23):
important. I think it'simportant, especially right now
in this world, right, to listento each other,
Jackie Congedo (19:31):
yeah, and just to recognize that we're all
human beings. And the minute westart seeing people as less than
human, or we start like,dismissing experiences as less
than authentically human, right?
That's a slippery slope, andit's a dangerous, dangerous
territory. I was I was trying. Iwas thinking back about that
this morning, about thatdebrief. So for folks who are
listening, we... the cast camedown, we did sort of a guided
(19:54):
tour, and then we had lunch, andwe got to talk a little bit
about your work and our work,and how, how, where the
intersections are, and the, justthe things that came out of this
cast. I mean, I forget who itwas, who said I, you know, it's
even though this is my story, Iget up and I do it so often that
(20:14):
I can, you know, you get intokind of a rut of just, you know,
I go and I sing the song. Andalso there's probably a little
bit of a distance you have tosort of keep in order to
maintain, like your composure,telling your own painful journey
Lea Lachey (20:28):
We talk about that all the time. And in this last
phase in particular, you know,as this builds and grows and
gets bigger and bigger andbigger, right? You have more
fans, and you they, I need themto protect themselves as well,
right? And so we say quite oftennow, yeah, like, you almost have
to kind of play character attimes, because it's so close to
(20:51):
your heart. Yeah, right, yeah,yeah, it's a lot. Yeah,
Jackie Congedo (20:54):
there's some preservation there for sure,
yeah? But he said, after beingin this space, I realized, like,
I I owe it to, you know, all thepeople who don't get to tell
their stories yet, I'm up there.
I'm up there doing it more. It'smore than just about for me, and
I think that really is one ofthe powerful aspects of the
(21:14):
museum, is this idea that, youknow, and it's what our
survivors, it was, what chargedthem to build this is that, you
know, we need to learn fromthis, but also we're the ones
who are responsible for tellingthe story for the 6 million
people who can't tell it right,right? And so you know all of
the kids you work with who aregetting up on stage finding the
(21:35):
courage to show thatvulnerability and just douse
people in their humanity, yeah,in a way that's so personal, the
fact that they're doing it, notjust for themselves, but for all
the people who have thoseexperiences and live those lives
every day, who aren't able tosay it, or who don't have a
(21:55):
stage to, you know, to projectit from
Lea Lachey (22:00):
I left that day feeling, I mean, I cried several
times, but I felt so empowered.
You know, the day to day can be,can be grueling in the sense of,
you know, there are a lot ofno's, yeah, a lot of doors that
are slammed, a lot of oh yeah,that's not that shows, not
really. I left that day going,you know, I can, I can lead and
(22:21):
I can be stronger, because it'simportant for people to hear
these stories. Yeah, so thankyou.
Jackie Congedo (22:29):
Oh my gosh, it was, it was a real privilege and
an outstanding cast, at least.
Well, I'm sure they're alloutstanding. I would tell you
that the best cast was the onethat we saw in Cincinnati the
last time it was produced. Andjust, you know, not only wildly
talented, but just incrediblythoughtful and great people,
great people, great people. Sothat's, that's, that's really
(22:52):
exciting. Okay, tell me aboutthe future. What is, what does
the future look like for labels?
I know you're sort of likenavigating well, and the fact
that, like, the beauty and ofthis show is that it is organic,
you know, it's like, you're,you're not trying necessarily. I
mean, you have some aspirations,but you're not trying to, like,
chart a certain path, right?
You're trying to move the workwhere it's needed and where it
(23:14):
calls to you. So what's, youknow, started in Cincinnati
toward some in regional theater,went to New York a few times,
Lea Lachey (23:24):
yep, yep, yep, yep.
Jackie Congedo (23:25):
What are you thinking in terms of what's
next?
Lea Lachey (23:27):
I mean, I think for me, touring probably is where
this show lives the best, right?
It's where you're going to havethe most impact, across the
country, across the world. Yeah,I would be lying if I said he
didn't want to sit down in NewYork
Jackie Congedo (23:44):
if people from New York are begging me, I'll
take the meeting
Lea Lachey (23:48):
I'll bring everyone.
So New York, and we've had a lotof conversations lately about
London, yeah, and how it couldmaybe have a life there for a
few months, which I think isreally cool. I think you're
right. I think that it just canlive in So, like so many places,
it's been in a black box space.
(24:10):
We converted a warehouse. It'sbeen in proscenium theaters, and
so I think the high schools,right? High school gyms, yeah,
yeah, everywhere. But I thinkthe beauty in it is that we can
kind of fit it into twodifferent sized venues. Yeah, it
can be outside. It can be aconcert. It can be, I mean, we
we've done that now too,acoustic set. So New York, where
(24:33):
we're really talking about thestorytelling and the
songwriting, I think it probablyhas a life somewhere as a
documentary or a film, yeah,yeah. So I think all of that is
super, super exciting, and Ithink I don't want to do the
norm with it. I don't, and Ithink that so many people know
about it now that we're sittingin a really exciting place where
(24:56):
it's like, Ooh, what's gonnahappen now? Yeah, yeah.
Jackie Congedo (24:59):
Well, I can tell. You. I am so glad you all
are anchored in Cincinnati,because I know that this show
will continue to live here in somany ways and will be back. And
for those people out there whohave not seen this, you must
make a point. You must see it.
It's it is a really incrediblypowerful expression of humanity
and of I have - I can't believeI've gone this whole episode
(25:20):
without saying the wordupstander once - of upstanders.
You know, I think in the initialemail I wrote you guys, I was
like, we certainly need more...
less labels and more upstanders.
Lea Lachey (25:31):
Yeah.
Jackie Congedo (25:31):
And that's, I mean, that is, you know, I think
about, in the museum, in themural, right as you walk in,
there's the story of of AlMiller watching Jesse Owens win
the gold.
Yeah. Story, yeah. That story Iknow right in 1936 Berlin at the
Olympics. This is Hitler'sGermany. You've got a young
(25:54):
Jewish boy who's lived in Berlinfor generations with his family.
Well, his family's lived inBerlin for generations, and he's
watching this moment that we alllearn about, read about in
history books, and we use theexample of Jesse running that
day, who, by the way, ranbecause they were supposed to
run. Actually a Jewish athletefrom Hughes High School. Hughes
(26:15):
High School, Sam Stoller, he
Lea Lachey (26:19):
that story is wild,
Jackie Congedo (26:20):
and they couldn't, because, like, that's
offensive. That would, you know,they were afraid that would be
offensive to the Germans, theAmerican athletes, to run a
Jewish athlete in the middle of,you know, Hitler's Germany. So
instead, they ran a blackathlete, which doesn't seem like
it's probably a whole lot betterreceived. In fact, we know that
it wasn't regular, left thestadium rather than acknowledge
(26:40):
that he had won. But regardless,you know this, the the idea of
acts of upstanding we thinkabout, you know, people who
saved lives and yes, incredible,yeah, incredible courage and
upstanding or behavior, but alsojust the more nuanced moments of
existing and insisting on yourown humanity in a place where
(27:02):
you are dehumanized, a placewhere other people want to put
labels on you, want to see youas something less than human,
just that you are thereprojecting your own humanity,
that is upstanding. Yeah. That'supstanding, yeah. So the fact
that theaters after theatersafter theaters of people are
witnessing people saying, Thisis who I am. This is my lived
(27:25):
experience. And I think it'sjust, I think it's a show about
upstanders, really. I love that.
So I love that. Thank you forall that you do. Anything else
you want to share. I always thisis a reporter, and me, can't
help but ask that questionbefore we wrap, because I'm
like, I just don't want you tobe left with any burning, urgent
pieces.
Lea Lachey (27:45):
trying to understand each other, where you're coming
from. I think, you know, rightnow, in this world, we're so
quick to kind of, you know, turnaway, not have a conversation
with someone that maybe looksdifferent, sounds different. So
(28:06):
I would encourage people tomaybe, I don't know, go, go, try
something new, start up aconversation with someone you're
gonna learn so many things. Alittle bit more empathy goes a
long way. I think.
Jackie Congedo (28:19):
So true.
Lea Lachey (28:19):
Open up your heart.
Jackie Congedo (28:21):
So true, I think that's a good last word. Lea,
thank you for coming.
Lea Lachey (28:24):
Thank you.
Jackie Congedo (28:25):
Have a wonderful conversation with us today and
go see label-less the next placeit's performed, you will not be
sorry that you did.
Lea Lachey (28:32):
Thank you.
Jackie Congedo (28:34):
Our thanks to the Mayerson Family Foundation
and the VIA Institute onCharacter for supporting this
series. We have a link in theshow notes so you can take your
own free Character Strengthssurvey and learn more about your
strengths. We'd love to hearabout your experiences with
character strengths and howyou're using them to stand up.
You can reach us anytime byemail, and you can listen
(28:54):
anytime on Spotify Applepodcasts or visit Holocaust and
humanity.org/podcast you canalso connect with us on
Instagram and Tiktok@Holocaustandhumanity and X and
Facebook @CincyHHC.
The Upstander Ripple Effect is aproduction of the Nancy & David
Wolf Holocaust & HumanityCenter. This series is part of
the Cynthia & Harold GuttmanFamily Center for Storytelling.
(29:16):
Visit us in person at historicunion terminal in Cincinnati,
Ohio, or online atHolocaustandhumanity.org
Managing producer is AnneThompson. Consulting Producer is
Joyce Kamen. Technical Produceris Robert Mills. Technical
Director is Josh Emerson.
Opening sequence is by KenFurman. Select music is by Kick
Lee, and this is recorded atTechnical Consulting Partner
(29:38):
studios in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Music. These are your superpowers, positive
character strengths. You havethem, all of them, some more
than others, what
Dr. Neal Mayerson (00:11):
we are best suited to do in our lives
connects with who we are and ourcharacter strengths,
Jackie Congedo (00:19):
standing up strong, activating your
superpowers is how you canchange the world,
Dr. Neal Mayerson (00:25):
and you're pioneering the future of
humanity.
Jackie Congedo (00:27):
Let's start right now. I'm Jackie Congedo.
What are the labels that havebeen put on you over the course
of your life? Do they fit you ordo they feel heavy? What if you
could just take them off? Inthis episode, we're sitting down
with Lea Lachey. She and herhusband, Drew, are using their
strengths of creativity andperseverance and many more to
(00:50):
develop and produce a musicalcalled label-less. It's about
the labels we put on ourselvesand each other and the humanity
that can be revealed when welook past them and truly
connect. So it is so exciting tobe joined by the Lea Lachey.
Lea Lachey (01:06):
Thank you
Jackie Congedo (01:07):
of Lachey arts and of our wonderful city, who
this has really been a passionproject for you and for Drew
Lea Lachey (01:15):
Absolutely.
Jackie Congedo (01:16):
I'm wondering, before we get into sort of the
nitty gritty, I want you to justtake me back to the very
beginning of how this wholething started.
Lea Lachey (01:22):
Oh, wow. Okay, so we were living in Los Angeles, and
we decided that we wanted toraise our family here, right?
You know, that's the wholeCincinnati thing, right? People
joke that it sucks you back. Itfelt right. We wanted to be
around family and just reallybuild a really great community
around our kids. The dream wasto give back in some way to
(01:45):
young artists. We started ournon profit Lachey Arts, and I'd
say, about three years in, aftercreating different shows, we did
a simple theater exercise in aclass, and it was about maybe
how you weren't feeling seen, orhow you were feeling
discriminated against. We hadthe students write down
(02:05):
anonymously on pieces of paper.
We didn't know who said what,the story goes. We went home
that night, we spread them outon the counter, cried, and it
was just it was very apparentthat there were things going on
in our students lives, right? Sonow we're personally connected
to that and and the show wasborn, but it was, it happened
(02:26):
organically and naturally. Neverdid we set out to, you know, we,
we're gonna build a musicaltonight. You know, it wasn't
that at all. And so it's been, Ican't believe I'm saying this
seven years, seven years. What apassion project. We jokingly
call it our third child. I loveit. I think it's, it's changing
(02:47):
hearts and minds, and there's nobetter way, right? In creating
art where people are, like,getting up out of the theater,
yeah, and they're moved, andthey're I would like to think
that maybe they're becomingbetter people. Yeah,
Jackie Congedo (03:05):
right, yeah.
It's an incredibly immersiveexperience. Taking a walk,
that's one of the songs, takinga walk in someone else's shoes,
yeah? And the fact that you havebeen able to sort of cast this
for the past seven years withpeople who actually have had
these experiences, or who have,who have had these labels
(03:31):
projected on them, right? Thatit's an authentic experience for
the people who are singing andacting.
Lea Lachey (03:37):
Absolutely.
Jackie Congedo (03:38):
I mean acting.
They are acting, but they are...
they're acting their own story,right? Which is really powerful.
How have you been able tonavigate, you know, keeping that
authenticity at the heart of theproduction?
Lea Lachey (03:48):
Well, I think that these young artists are
gravitating towards label-less.
They want to be a part of it,because it's something new and
unique, right? So, so yes, theyare performing, and they have
to, obviously be trained, andthey're professional performers,
but at the same time, they'rebrave. They're so brave. And to
kind of explain it a littlebetter, you know, we call them
(04:09):
now, they're monologues, right?
But they started with justsimple stories, and so with each
cast member that comes in, thereis a slight tweak to that
monologue. You know, forinstance, sexism. When someone
new comes in, they might have anew story to tell that they want
to share, so it slightlychanges. And then I think that
(04:29):
that's where you really see, youknow, an honest connection with
the artists, and that's why theaudience is so moved, because
that performer is on stagereally telling their story,
yeah, and
Jackie Congedo (04:43):
it comes across, I mean, just the authenticity of
yeah in the whole thing. I mean,you have the authenticity of the
stories, but the way the music,I think, the original pieces,
but also some of the covers thatyou guys do, the way they're
performing. Form the way you canjust tell that. It's like living
within the people who aresinging these songs and the
(05:06):
choreography, which is so Imean, that was probably the
first thing I mentioned when,after I was super proud of that,
fortunate enough to get a littlesneak peek behind the scenes,
but watching how, you know,organic, the choreography is,
but it seems it's seamless, andit's like,
Lea Lachey (05:25):
Thank you. You know, everyone's
Jackie Congedo (05:27):
totally on.
There is a very deliberate,intentional move towards looking
like it's not intentional, yes,
Lea Lachey (05:34):
I love that you're bringing that up, because I and
think some people just thinklike, oh yeah, when you're just
walking and, you know, eachbreath is thought out and touch
each grab, each movement of thescaffolding, which we do, you
know, a lot of movement withthose pieces within the show.
But to me, movement isstorytelling too, and
choreography. And so I wanted itto have a pedestrian feel, but
(05:58):
at the same time, break out anddo these beautiful, you know,
technical things, yeah,super proud of it.
Jackie Congedo (06:04):
Yeah, it's beautiful. So back at the
beginning, as you're looking atthese stories and saying, like,
oh my gosh, this has to be told.
And I love the art form. I mean,I'm a little biased. I'm a
musical theater nerd, like, Ijust, I love that. I I think
that when you put somebody in ablack box and immerse them in an
experience like they can't helpbut come away feeling changed in
(06:25):
some way. It's all of thethings. It's the art form that
just surrounds you and gets inyou and you can't, can't get it
out once it's in you, right? So,you know, forcing people really,
actually, to confront someoneelse's humanity in such an
immersive way. Yeah? So asyou're looking at these stories,
and you're trying to figure out,okay, what do we do with this,
(06:47):
I'm wondering, like even beforethat, what prompted you to ask
the question, like, have youknow these labels, right, that
we have for each other, forourselves? I mean, have you ever
felt that on you? Have you
Lea Lachey (07:01):
absolutely
Jackie Congedo (07:02):
Yeah, I'm just wondering, like, how do
Lea Lachey (07:03):
As a woman in this industry, 100% I've been in many
rooms where I feel like I maybehave to fight my way to the top,
Jackie Congedo (07:08):
Right
Lea Lachey (07:10):
Right? And so you think that those things go away
right? I'm sure you felt thattoo, whereit's maybe you should
and they don't, yeah, and so,you know what? I don't know.
listen to me. I mean, I knowwhat I'm doing, right? So I get
that. One of those pieces ofpaper that immediately and I
What prompted us to ask thatquestion that day in that class,
remember where it was, where Iwas standing in the kitchen, was
about this young girl, again, Idon't know who said what, where
Something moved us. I'm glad welistened to it. I'm glad that we
(07:33):
the uncle said, "Well, you'llnever do that, and you'll never
be anything, because your placeis in the kitchen." And so for
me, you know, when I read that,I thought, what? My God, what
year arewe in?
(08:03):
listened to our voice, right,that that voice deep down and
and I'm also really glad that Iwanted to, and I'm gonna say I
because Drew goes well, Lea didit. But
Jackie Congedo (08:15):
you would agree
Lea Lachey (08:17):
credit where credit's due. I wanted to, dig
into that. There was...
something told me there'ssomething here. And so it just
started as like, I mean,literally, it just started as
like, let's play with this song.
It was a Mumford and sons songthat opened the show. And then
it it built. And then all of asudden, more people start
gravitating towards it. And allof a sudden, you know, it was
(08:39):
set in a high school setting atfirst, and when you have
students that are peeking intothe door in the rehearsal room
and kind of going, what is this?
Wait a minute, I think I want tobe part of this. You know,
you're on to something. And thenit's evolved, right? And so now
the cast is 17 to 27 year olds.
Jackie Congedo (09:02):
So this was at SCPA, right?
Lea Lachey (09:03):
Yes. So we were, we were teaching a class at SCPA.
We ran the musical theaterprogram for 10 years there. And
so it was. It was born and bredhere in Cincinnati. The next
show we did was the OTR FilmFest, and that sold out very
quickly. And you know that, thenyou know you've got these, this
(09:26):
whole different generations ofpeople in the audience that are
connected to the piece. So now,as a director and a producer,
you start to watch that, and yougo, Okay, it's not just kids.
Yeah, right now, parents andgrandparents and neighbors, and
we were bombarded with emailsand calls, and so I was like,
(09:46):
Okay, I'm gonna keep I'm gonnakeep working on this. And then
it just snowballs, right? Andthen it's, you're putting it in
New York. I mean, we've been inNew York twice now, which is not
nothing, not. Nothing. It'ssuper exciting. Yeah. I think
the thing, ultimately, right nowthat I'm the most proud of is
(10:06):
the fact that we're creatingsomething new and different.
Yeah, you know, with the goalbeing Broadway in the West End,
we've added that to the list.
Where it's, Hey, man, I wantpeople to look at this later and
go, "Oh,you mean likelabel-less?" Yeah, I want to, I
want to do that, yeah, I want todo that kind of work, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Jackie Congedo (10:24):
That's trailblazing work.
Lea Lachey (10:26):
You know, I'm trying
Jackie Congedo (10:28):
pretty good at that. We know a thing or two
about trailblazing, yeah, no, Ithat that is true, and it's,
it's one of the best things - inthe short time I've known you -
about you, I think. I'mwondering also, you know, is
there a piece of feedback you'vegotten from the show that has
(10:49):
caused you to pivot or cause youto think differently? I mean,
you know, we all love a standingovation
Lea Lachey (10:58):
Absolutely.
Jackie Congedo (10:59):
And sometimes, I think with this work, it's the
people who aren't standing andclapping who most need to hear
it and see it. And so, you know,trying to, like, walk the line
where you want to hold to theauthenticity of the stories, but
you're trying to reach someonethat's not the choir, and how do
(11:20):
we bring them in in a way that'schallenging and immersive, but
like welcoming and safe forpeople to go on their own
journey of learning and kind ofmove them along, right? I mean,
have you wrestled with that atall? Or,
Lea Lachey (11:32):
Oh my god, yes, yes, oh yeah, from the very
beginning, I'll probably jumpall over the place, but you
know, we made a choice the verybeginning to not talk about
religion or politics. It wasjust really important to us, and
it's really just about humanstories. I kind of feel like it
(11:52):
shouldn't really be politicalwhen you're getting up and
telling your story. I mean, Iwould say from the very
beginning, people start to get alittle fearful of things that
they are not educated in. Right?
I would be lying if I sat hereand said that I did not have
phone calls with people thathave asked me to take certain
sections out of the show. So Ido think that you have to be
(12:15):
very strong and bold. And I havesaid point blank to people I
know what you're asking, andyou're asking me to take out
racism and homophobia, and Iwon't do that, because that's
erasing someone's story, notgoing to do it. And I also think
you're right. I think the peoplethat you really want to touch
with that message, because, yes,it's lovely, the choreography,
(12:38):
and people are standing andthey're they're blown away by
the talent and the music.
Jackie Congedo (12:44):
The talent is breathtaking.
Lea Lachey (12:46):
They're amazing.
Yeah, they're so amazing.
Jackie Congedo (12:48):
It's, really, I don't know where you find these
kids, but
Lea Lachey (12:49):
all over the world now, all over the world, it's,
it's incredible. But yes, ifwe're, if we're being honest,
those people that sit there andare super quiet when you can
hear a pin drop. I won't namethe state that we were in. It
was very eye opening ascreators, and from the cast
perspective of you know, whenyou can - there's a silence in
(13:12):
the theater. It's hard to nottake that personally, like, are
we doing something wrong? Butthen you're like, well, we're
not doing anything wrong. Thisis what this is. And so, yeah. I
mean, I like to think sometimeswhen people are sitting there
and they're quiet, hopefullythey're really thinking about
it, yeah,
Jackie Congedo (13:28):
right, absolutely. I mean, that's,
that's the most that I think isthe most powerful outcome, yeah,
when you have people who aren'tjust, well, I don't want to say
that, because I think there issomething to say about seeing
your story told by someone elseon stage, and feeling like,
"That is how I felt. That makesme feel seen." And that's, you
(13:50):
know, we've all had thatexperience in watching art, yes,
you know, experiencing it insome way, whether that's theater
or visual art or, you know,music, to say, Wow, they really
nailed that. I mean, think aboutlike, the phenomenon of Taylor
Swift. Why is Taylor Swift whoshe is? Right? It's because
she's spoken to now generationsof people who feel seen in her
(14:11):
music. Yep. And so, you know, Ithink it's, I don't want to
understate that. I think it isreally important when you have
people standing up and clappingand saying, That's me, and you
nailed it. And the opportunityis to say, can we help other
people who don't have thoseexperiences, who don't have that
right, those encounters everyday, understand a little bit
(14:32):
better that there are peoplewalking around living these
lives Yes, and living thishumanity, yes.
Lea Lachey (14:38):
And I think the beautiful thing in that is
right, like the flip side ofthat quiet and that uneasy,
unsettling vibe that sometimesis in the theater, yeah, are the
people that are just sometimesgrabbing the cast and hugging,
you know, to the point where Ihave never felt so seen. And so
you're right, I mean, and youknow. Labels is bringing out
(15:01):
people that are not thetraditional theater goer too.
Jackie Congedo (15:03):
Yeah
Lea Lachey (15:03):
Super proud of that.
Jackie Congedo (15:04):
Oh, yeah, that's, I mean, that's a just
giving people the opportunity toexperience the power of the arts
is really cool.
Lea Lachey (15:10):
Yeah
Jackie Congedo (15:11):
Okay, so you we were talking about feeling seen,
and I think that's probably agood place to pivot to the
intersection of our work. Somaybe I should just, I'm going
to jump off the feeling seen,and then I'm going to circle
back, we at the Holocaust andHumanity Center do - it reminded
me of we have these youthleadership days where we bring
in teenagers and we we do a lotof work. There's Holocaust
(15:36):
education, of course, butthere's also a lot of character
development and sort ofstrengths work that we do
positive psychology, strength,not necessarily weightlifting,
although that would be kind ofcool,
Lea Lachey (15:47):
to be cool, we could maybe do that positive
Jackie Congedo (15:49):
psychology.
Maybe do that positivepsychology work. And one of the
exercises is strength spotting.
And so what we do is we give thekids a stack of cards. And it
says, I noticed the strength ofx in x, and you are supposed to
fill out one of the 24 characterstrengths, and whoever you see
exhibiting that, and give it tothem. And you have to give out
(16:10):
all five by the time the day isover. And it seems like the most
simple thing, but the feedbackwe get from this activity, I
mean, there's, there's this oneon, like, a little written
feedback form, a question thatwas an open ended, like, is
there something that you knowwas really meaningful for you
(16:31):
about this day? And this one inher, in her, you know, in her
high school, handwriting wrote,I've never felt so seen, whoa.
Lea Lachey (16:40):
There it is, right.
There it is. Yeah, so,
Jackie Congedo (16:44):
and you know, I think in following up with her,
she had said, yeah, people keptgiving me, I've seen the
strength of humor in you. AndI'm like, I'm not a funny
person. But apparently peoplethink I'm funny, I'm funny,
which is like, and then we'vehad other kids say it was this
other girl who had this amazingexperience where she had they
their school had asked her togive their like senior address
(17:05):
to the class. And she was like,that's not me. I'm not I can't
do that. I and so then there wasthis experience. She came with
her class, she got all of thesecards that said, I saw the
strength of leadership in you.
Lea Lachey (17:16):
Wow.
Jackie Congedo (17:16):
And after that, she went back to her teacher and
said, I think I actually want todo this, because people see that
I have the strength. I don't seeit in myself.
Lea Lachey (17:24):
Yeah.
Jackie Congedo (17:25):
So anyway, feeling seen is something that
really resonates, okay, and nowI'm gonna say that for a long
time, I feel like people havebeen telling you about us and us
about you.
Lea Lachey (17:36):
Yes, oh my gosh, so
Jackie Congedo (17:39):
label-less and the Holocaust and Humanity
Center have been concentriccircles,
Lea Lachey (17:42):
yes,
Jackie Congedo (17:42):
for a while, and when we met, and I got to see
what you all have produced, andthen, you know, you brought the
cast down for a tour, which wasso special,
Lea Lachey (17:51):
so special,
Jackie Congedo (17:52):
I think it was really clear that, like, there's
a lot of synergy and connectionhere.
Lea Lachey (17:56):
Yes,
Jackie Congedo (17:57):
I'm wondering, in your words, if you can share
a little bit about, like, whatthat has been like for you, or
where you noticed there to bethis connection in our work?
Lea Lachey (18:05):
Well, immediately, when I met you, clearly we hit
it off, right? And I feel likeyou got what we were doing.
And I think thatthat speaks volumes, because I
Jackie Congedo (18:12):
yeah.
think there's a lot of peoplethat, oh, cool, a show fun, oh
yeah.
"Songs are pretty."
Lea Lachey (18:21):
They're so pretty.
So you really understood thatthere was more than just a show,
Jackie Congedo (18:25):
yeah
Lea Lachey (18:25):
So that, you know, right off the bat, but bringing
the cast down that day. I mean,I can't tell you how many times,
well, first of all, lots oftears.
Jackie Congedo (18:34):
Yeah, right, yeah,
Lea Lachey (18:38):
yeah. Me gets me choked up now thinking about it,
it. It was such a special momentfor us. We don't take what we do
lightly. And I think thatsitting there that day and and
listening and the wording too,so very similar the shoes, yeah,
(18:59):
yeah, that whole time when wewere sitting there after and
having lunch, and, you know, theregroup of, what did, what did
we see? I mean, I as as I walkedthrough the museum, and I would
pass different cast members,everyone say, Oh, my God, we
have to go read this, becausethat's, that's like, what we
say, you know, and so I thinkit's, I think it's really
(19:23):
important. I think it'simportant, especially right now
in this world, right, to listento each other,
Jackie Congedo (19:31):
yeah, and just to recognize that we're all
human beings. And the minute westart seeing people as less than
human, or we start like,dismissing experiences as less
than authentically human, right?
That's a slippery slope, andit's a dangerous, dangerous
territory. I was I was trying. Iwas thinking back about that
this morning, about thatdebrief. So for folks who are
listening, we... the cast camedown, we did sort of a guided
(19:54):
tour, and then we had lunch, andwe got to talk a little bit
about your work and our work,and how, how, where the
intersections are, and the, justthe things that came out of this
cast. I mean, I forget who itwas, who said I, you know, it's
even though this is my story, Iget up and I do it so often that
(20:14):
I can, you know, you get intokind of a rut of just, you know,
I go and I sing the song. Andalso there's probably a little
bit of a distance you have tosort of keep in order to
maintain, like your composure,telling your own painful journey
Lea Lachey (20:28):
We talk about that all the time. And in this last
phase in particular, you know,as this builds and grows and
gets bigger and bigger andbigger, right? You have more
fans, and you they, I need themto protect themselves as well,
right? And so we say quite oftennow, yeah, like, you almost have
to kind of play character attimes, because it's so close to
(20:51):
your heart. Yeah, right, yeah,yeah, it's a lot. Yeah,
Jackie Congedo (20:54):
there's some preservation there for sure,
yeah? But he said, after beingin this space, I realized, like,
I I owe it to, you know, all thepeople who don't get to tell
their stories yet, I'm up there.
I'm up there doing it more. It'smore than just about for me, and
I think that really is one ofthe powerful aspects of the
(21:14):
museum, is this idea that, youknow, and it's what our
survivors, it was, what chargedthem to build this is that, you
know, we need to learn fromthis, but also we're the ones
who are responsible for tellingthe story for the 6 million
people who can't tell it right,right? And so you know all of
the kids you work with who aregetting up on stage finding the
(21:35):
courage to show thatvulnerability and just douse
people in their humanity, yeah,in a way that's so personal, the
fact that they're doing it, notjust for themselves, but for all
the people who have thoseexperiences and live those lives
every day, who aren't able tosay it, or who don't have a
(21:55):
stage to, you know, to projectit from
Lea Lachey (22:00):
I left that day feeling, I mean, I cried several
times, but I felt so empowered.
You know, the day to day can be,can be grueling in the sense of,
you know, there are a lot ofno's, yeah, a lot of doors that
are slammed, a lot of oh yeah,that's not that shows, not
really. I left that day going,you know, I can, I can lead and
(22:21):
I can be stronger, because it'simportant for people to hear
these stories. Yeah, so thankyou.
Jackie Congedo (22:29):
Oh my gosh, it was, it was a real privilege and
an outstanding cast, at least.
Well, I'm sure they're alloutstanding. I would tell you
that the best cast was the onethat we saw in Cincinnati the
last time it was produced. Andjust, you know, not only wildly
talented, but just incrediblythoughtful and great people,
great people, great people. Sothat's, that's, that's really
(22:52):
exciting. Okay, tell me aboutthe future. What is, what does
the future look like for labels?
I know you're sort of likenavigating well, and the fact
that, like, the beauty and ofthis show is that it is organic,
you know, it's like, you're,you're not trying necessarily. I
mean, you have some aspirations,but you're not trying to, like,
chart a certain path, right?
You're trying to move the workwhere it's needed and where it
(23:14):
calls to you. So what's, youknow, started in Cincinnati
toward some in regional theater,went to New York a few times,
Lea Lachey (23:24):
yep, yep, yep, yep.
Jackie Congedo (23:25):
What are you thinking in terms of what's
next?
Lea Lachey (23:27):
I mean, I think for me, touring probably is where
this show lives the best, right?
It's where you're going to havethe most impact, across the
country, across the world. Yeah,I would be lying if I said he
didn't want to sit down in NewYork
Jackie Congedo (23:44):
if people from New York are begging me, I'll
take the meeting
Lea Lachey (23:48):
I'll bring everyone.
So New York, and we've had a lotof conversations lately about
London, yeah, and how it couldmaybe have a life there for a
few months, which I think isreally cool. I think you're
right. I think that it just canlive in So, like so many places,
it's been in a black box space.
(24:10):
We converted a warehouse. It'sbeen in proscenium theaters, and
so I think the high schools,right? High school gyms, yeah,
yeah, everywhere. But I thinkthe beauty in it is that we can
kind of fit it into twodifferent sized venues. Yeah, it
can be outside. It can be aconcert. It can be, I mean, we
we've done that now too,acoustic set. So New York, where
(24:33):
we're really talking about thestorytelling and the
songwriting, I think it probablyhas a life somewhere as a
documentary or a film, yeah,yeah. So I think all of that is
super, super exciting, and Ithink I don't want to do the
norm with it. I don't, and Ithink that so many people know
about it now that we're sittingin a really exciting place where
(24:56):
it's like, Ooh, what's gonnahappen now? Yeah, yeah.
Jackie Congedo (24:59):
Well, I can tell. You. I am so glad you all
are anchored in Cincinnati,because I know that this show
will continue to live here in somany ways and will be back. And
for those people out there whohave not seen this, you must
make a point. You must see it.
It's it is a really incrediblypowerful expression of humanity
and of I have - I can't believeI've gone this whole episode
(25:20):
without saying the wordupstander once - of upstanders.
You know, I think in the initialemail I wrote you guys, I was
like, we certainly need more...
less labels and more upstanders.
Lea Lachey (25:31):
Yeah.
Jackie Congedo (25:31):
And that's, I mean, that is, you know, I think
about, in the museum, in themural, right as you walk in,
there's the story of of AlMiller watching Jesse Owens win
the gold.
Yeah. Story, yeah. That story Iknow right in 1936 Berlin at the
Olympics. This is Hitler'sGermany. You've got a young
(25:54):
Jewish boy who's lived in Berlinfor generations with his family.
Well, his family's lived inBerlin for generations, and he's
watching this moment that we alllearn about, read about in
history books, and we use theexample of Jesse running that
day, who, by the way, ranbecause they were supposed to
run. Actually a Jewish athletefrom Hughes High School. Hughes
(26:15):
High School, Sam Stoller, he
Lea Lachey (26:19):
that story is wild,
Jackie Congedo (26:20):
and they couldn't, because, like, that's
offensive. That would, you know,they were afraid that would be
offensive to the Germans, theAmerican athletes, to run a
Jewish athlete in the middle of,you know, Hitler's Germany. So
instead, they ran a blackathlete, which doesn't seem like
it's probably a whole lot betterreceived. In fact, we know that
it wasn't regular, left thestadium rather than acknowledge
(26:40):
that he had won. But regardless,you know this, the the idea of
acts of upstanding we thinkabout, you know, people who
saved lives and yes, incredible,yeah, incredible courage and
upstanding or behavior, but alsojust the more nuanced moments of
existing and insisting on yourown humanity in a place where
(27:02):
you are dehumanized, a placewhere other people want to put
labels on you, want to see youas something less than human,
just that you are thereprojecting your own humanity,
that is upstanding. Yeah. That'supstanding, yeah. So the fact
that theaters after theatersafter theaters of people are
witnessing people saying, Thisis who I am. This is my lived
(27:25):
experience. And I think it'sjust, I think it's a show about
upstanders, really. I love that.
So I love that. Thank you forall that you do. Anything else
you want to share. I always thisis a reporter, and me, can't
help but ask that questionbefore we wrap, because I'm
like, I just don't want you tobe left with any burning, urgent
pieces.
Lea Lachey (27:45):
trying to understand each other, where you're coming
from. I think, you know, rightnow, in this world, we're so
quick to kind of, you know, turnaway, not have a conversation
with someone that maybe looksdifferent, sounds different. So
(28:06):
I would encourage people tomaybe, I don't know, go, go, try
something new, start up aconversation with someone you're
gonna learn so many things. Alittle bit more empathy goes a
long way. I think.
Jackie Congedo (28:19):
So true.
Lea Lachey (28:19):
Open up your heart.
Jackie Congedo (28:21):
So true, I think that's a good last word. Lea,
thank you for coming.
Lea Lachey (28:24):
Thank you.
Jackie Congedo (28:25):
Have a wonderful conversation with us today and
go see label-less the next placeit's performed, you will not be
sorry that you did.
Lea Lachey (28:32):
Thank you.
Jackie Congedo (28:34):
Our thanks to the Mayerson Family Foundation
and the VIA Institute onCharacter for supporting this
series. We have a link in theshow notes so you can take your
own free Character Strengthssurvey and learn more about your
strengths. We'd love to hearabout your experiences with
character strengths and howyou're using them to stand up.
You can reach us anytime byemail, and you can listen
(28:54):
anytime on Spotify Applepodcasts or visit Holocaust and
humanity.org/podcast you canalso connect with us on
Instagram and Tiktok@Holocaustandhumanity and X and
Facebook @CincyHHC.
The Upstander Ripple Effect is aproduction of the Nancy & David
Wolf Holocaust & HumanityCenter. This series is part of
the Cynthia & Harold GuttmanFamily Center for Storytelling.
(29:16):
Visit us in person at historicunion terminal in Cincinnati,
Ohio, or online atHolocaustandhumanity.org
Managing producer is AnneThompson. Consulting Producer is
Joyce Kamen. Technical Produceris Robert Mills. Technical
Director is Josh Emerson.
Opening sequence is by KenFurman. Select music is by Kick
Lee, and this is recorded atTechnical Consulting Partner
(29:38):
studios in Cincinnati, Ohio.
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