January 22, 2024 • 32 mins
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When Mora File, a teacher and healer with a background in shamanic practices, joined us, she shared valuable insights about the stages of womanhood. She spoke about the transition from maiden to mother, and then to crone, emphasizing the crone's role in embodying wisdom and life's cycles. Mora highlighted the importance of recognizing and celebrating the transition into being a crone, underscoring the role of elder women as keepers of wisdom. "I reflected on how these teachings positively influenced my family, particularly in the guidance I offered my niece, demonstrating the intergenerational impact of such wisdom."
Our discussion then expanded to acknowledge the diverse roles women play in their communities, extending beyond traditional motherhood. We discussed the many forms of care women provide, including adoptive and foster mothers, and the role of women as wise elders or crones in their communities. We recognized the nurturing individuals in our society, regardless of their gender identity, and the significance of ceremonies that honour elder women.
The conversation also touched on grief circles, highlighting the respect for elder wisdom in times of loss. We considered how contemplating life's temporary nature can bring peace, especially for those well-rooted in spiritual understanding, as they approach life's end. We invite everyone to join our Urban Grief Shaman's Podcast and Circles, where we explore loss and healing through shamanic practices. This space is designed for connection, learning, and growth, guided by the wisdom of ancestral teachings and the cycle of life.
Show introduction: One Drum: Stories and Ceremonies for a Planet by Richard Wagamese
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Moir (01:38):
Welcome to another episode of the Urban Grief
Showman's podcast.
I'm your John Moir In today'sepisode, we're diving into a
topic that's as ancient as it isfascinating: the powerful role
of the crone.
and today I am joined by MoraFile extraordinary, a beacon in
the world of shamanic teachingand healing.
Marais will share insightsinto the crone's journey from
(02:02):
nurturing wisdom to So here weare, and I'm with a And I have
to confess, Marais, that otherthan I think Crone is of an
interesting name, I don't knowmuch about the whole archetype.
My good friend, shamanicteacher Mora File.
Mora has a 30-year history ofholding sacred women's circles,
so let's join her.
(02:29):
Has journeyed around thewheel and reached the place
where it would come to a time ofwisdom, right where we've had
the experience of being a youngchild, being a young maiden,
being a mother, and now, throughthe wisdom of having raised
(02:50):
children, not havingparticipated with grandchildren,
having managed grief, loss, allthese kinds of experiences that
bring the wisdom to what is ourcronhood, and so there is
Everything done done you,having you, And, yeah, we would
reflect on it as the wisdomyears coming to that time of
just understanding and sharingwisdom.
Have an experience, manyexperiences in life, an innate
understanding of the worldaround you and your place within
it.
Understanding of power andconnection to the creation
(03:11):
energy.
So to be a crone is one whounderstands the creation energy
and the process of the cycles oflife and death, and so we're
coming into that age ofreverence, that age of
thoughtfulness, consideration.
(04:10):
I think I understand that in previous times, there
were different initiations thatwomen healers and shamans would
go through on their way tobecoming a crone in the old
meaning.
Does any of that take placenowadays?
Mora File (04:12):
There certainly are ceremonies that can welcome
those who are coming of age.
Sometimes that's 50, sometimesthat's 55, sometimes that's 60.
65 and we just did a littlecroning ceremony actually back
(04:33):
in October, with two women fromour circle who have come into
that turning of the wheel,coming to that age of wisdom.
And yeah, these ceremoniesdefinitely happen and I think in
our culture we have lost a lotof those ceremonies of the
coming of age whether it'smoving from being a 12 year old
(04:56):
to a 14 year old and suddenlybeing a tween, but as a young
woman coming into her menses, asopposed to an older woman who
is completing that cycle.
And so the concept of what arewe birthing as we come into our
cronhood?
And so what we are birthing isa deeper connection to the world
(05:20):
around us and a responsibilityto be a wisdom keeper, whether
you are female or male, as wecome into these years and in the
wheel as we are as women,cronhood is a very revered place
to sit on the wheel so thatothers can come and ask
(05:42):
questions and have knowledge andwisdom shared in a manner.
That is the heart and there'sthat I just had an experience of
that yesterday with a niece whohas just gone through a fairly
significant bone cancer surgeryand it's been very hard for her.
And so I gave her somedivination cards and I gave her
(06:06):
some stones and I gave her sometechniques of breathing and
coming into center and asking aquestion and pulling a
divination card and having setup a sacred altar with a candle
and some smudge and, as a 22year old, if I'm not teaching
(06:27):
her that, how is she learning it?
Where is she finding that?
And she sent me a picture ofthis beautiful altar that she
created and how much better shewas feeling about herself and
her connection to her own soul,right to her own spiritual
journey through why me?
Why did this happen to me?
(06:48):
And that's a beautiful exampleof what we can do as Crones who
have had our own experiences oftrauma and challenge, and you
know, life is full ofdisappointments, life is full of
challenges, and how do we getthrough them?
And so, as shamans, we canjourney to our helping spirits
and we can ask these questionsand we can have various
(07:10):
different kinds of informationcome back to us or healings come
back to us, and this is allvery helpful.
And so how can we teach this toyounger and younger generations
to begin to navigate throughall of the challenges that they
are facing and the fears thatthey have around climate change
and what's going to happen onthe planet if we don't do
(07:33):
something?
And so there's lots of youthwho are very stressed, lots of
older people who are also verystressed.
And so the gift of working withthe spirit realms in whatever
way you work with the spiritrealms, those of us who have
studied shamanism have some verypowerful tools that we can work
with.
And so how do we share thosetools, as well as men and women,
(07:57):
with those who are searchingand wanting to find something to
create meaning in their lives?
John Moir (08:03):
So is there a difference between what you know
?
When I hear the word an elder,I think of somebody who is wise,
and male or female.
Is it a term that's usedinterchangeably, an elder
meaning either sex, where itscrown is considered a wise woman
(08:24):
, but an elder too?
Is it Definitely?
Yes, definitely, in your?
Mora File (08:28):
experience yeah, word elder, it's very nature is one
who has, like I say, gone aroundthe wheel a number of times and
gained wisdom in the process.
And perhaps the word crownwould also indicate one who has
been working with that spiritualrealm very consciously for many
years and so has has gonethrough all of the, all of the
(08:53):
stages, from a place of deeppractice and understanding that
the role that they have taken oncomes to a place of crownhood.
Elderhood is elderhood.
The elders of communities wouldhave a certain reverence placed
upon them because of the wisdomthat they are bringing to the
(09:16):
community and the stability orthe understanding of what is
needed and they can bring it tothe community and are that
people respect and havereverence for and will sit and
listen to an elder in the sameway that one would sit and
listen to the crown.
John Moir (09:38):
Yeah, the, when I do healing sessions, I love working
with my ancestors that I'llbring in to aid me, but I also
ask the client to call in theirancestors even if they're not
aware of who they are.
But it's the working withgrandmother energy is, for me,
(09:59):
it's just an incredibleexperience, and when I first
started, I didn't think thatthere would be much of a
difference between the ancestralgrandmothers or the ancestral
fathers, and but there issomething about it and I found
it to be slightly very wise, asthey both, but there's something
soft and nurturing and I justthought, man, that what we need
(10:23):
more of in this world right nowis more grandmother energy, and
so I guess that would bereflecting on we need more
crones.
Mora File (10:32):
Definitely If we're going to move out of patriarchal
grip, which is skill and themasculine energy by its nature
feels like it has to be theconqueror, whereas the matriarch
or the crown or the wise womanor the elder is very much more
(10:52):
the receptive.
So they they have a differentkind of a nurturing energy.
One of my longest, deepestconnections is with an ancient
grandmother helping spirit who Igo to all the time and meet her
at the sacred fire and she justis very wise and sometimes is
(11:14):
very quiet and says, saysnothing, but what she does
around the fire is the teachingright.
And so there are many ways thatwe can learn to understand and
listen and watch and observe andfeel that, as you say, this
grandmotherly energy is verycomforting, it's very soothing,
(11:37):
it's very calming.
There's a lot of comfort thatcomes from one who will just
embrace you and accept you forwho you are and where you are on
the path, and so, as a, that'sa lovely, that's a lovely
compassionate place to be,definitely.
John Moir (11:56):
If a woman is unable to have children but as she
grows older, that doesn'texclude her from being a crown,
does it?
Mora File (12:06):
Not at all.
Not at all.
I have many friends not havingthat experience.
Yeah, but they become thenurturers of their community.
They have lots of friends whoare healers or or therapists on
many different levels, who havebeen unable to have children or
have chosen not to have childrenor circumstances just did not
(12:27):
allow for that to occur, andthey still become the wise women
of the community and they holdall of the children of the
community in their hearts.
And, yeah, I would say yes,anyone who is an elder.
John Moir (12:46):
I was thinking of the women who are mothers because
they have adopted children andgrow old from that experience
and in many ways they have awhole body of knowledge that
women who are able to have theirown children in their younger
years wouldn't have, becausethey're not going through that
experience taking on children orinfants, I should say, or young
(13:10):
children as their own, andthere's a great wisdom in that
it's held by these women that dohold to the care of other
children.
Any thoughts?
Mora File (13:23):
Yes, absolutely no.
I know women who have fosteredchildren, who have adopted even
some of the children that theyhave fostered, but that, seeing
the need that is out there forthat nurturing, that nurturing
kindness and caring nature, thatis that feminine energy of
(13:47):
which we all have a masculineand feminine side.
So even there are lots ofnurturing male energy males out
there and who just have thatdeep compassionate side of
wanting to take care of andassist in healing and helping
others right.
Whether they're young childrenor older children, even as we
(14:14):
age, there is still that innerchild that needs to be held,
that needs to be taken care of,that needs to comfort it and
made to feel safe and secure,and we all have that potential
to provide and offer that toeach other, to our world.
John Moir (14:30):
So, yeah, what's your thoughts on?
Is there a place fortwo-spirited people?
Mora File (14:37):
For two-spirited people it would be the same kind
of level of compassion.
There's still kindness, there'sstill love, there's still
nurturing and consideration andthe understanding around who we
are as a heart-centered being,whether we are male, female,
(14:58):
two-spirited, whether weidentify as her, him, they.
There's many different waysthat we can identify with who we
feel we are and the mostimportant part of our identity
is that part of our soul that ishere to be of assistance and
bring something better into ourworld.
(15:20):
We all have that potential.
We all have that potential tobe that and, yeah, I wouldn't
separate anyone from having thatcapacity within their
heart-centered to do that.
John Moir (15:34):
Can you speak to the rituals for crone ceremonies?
Is there anything specific thatpeople practice?
How does the community cometogether for a celebration of
recognition?
Mora File (15:45):
To welcome a woman into cronhood is to receive and
honor her presence and tocelebrate her unique experiences
and the gifts that she bringsto the circle, brings to the
community.
And each one of us has had ourdifferent challenges, and so
(16:07):
it's through those differentchallenges that our unique light
shines.
And so when you're welcomingsomeone into that cronhood and
really celebrating their journey, celebrating who they are and
the experiences that they havegone through, that it brought
them to this time ofunderstanding more of who they
(16:30):
are and accepting more of whothey are and not being in
judgment, lots of people have alot of self-judgment.
By the time you come to a placewhere you can honor a sister
honor, a woman honor, a crone isto feel the wisdom coming from
and through them that they haveexperienced it because of the
(16:56):
age that they are, that youcan't be a crone at 25 because
you just haven't experiencedenough of what life's challenges
has been.
And so, even though you couldbe an old soul at 25, you still
need to navigate around thewheel for another 25 years to
(17:18):
really have an understanding ofwho you are and what it means
that you are here to bring intothe world with your unique gifts
and our celebrations andrituals would be to Dorn one
with a potentially a beautifulprayer shawl right.
And so when you see some ofthese elders, or your groans,
(17:42):
they will be adorned withcertain kinds of power necklaces
or Power shawls.
Maybe they maybe they have hairadornments that that are
Representing the gray hairs thatthat have come through their
time of journeying around thewheel.
You know, there's often anhonoring with All of the
(18:03):
elements, the elements of fire.
So, through smudging air through, through singing, through use
of feathers, the use of sacredwater that's been blessed in
sacred herbs or essences, andthis aspect of the earth walk,
that we are all here doing thisearth time and that it is as a
(18:26):
result of the dance that we'vebeen doing for however many
years We've been doing it.
To come into this time of cronhood is to really understand
your connection To the worldaround you, to the people who
are around you, to your own self.
There's just a deeperunderstanding of the oneness
(18:48):
You're not separate from and you.
You don't have to, you don'thave to prove yourself anymore,
there is just an acceptance thatcomes, and so the honoring of
all of these aspects of who youare as one who looks at the
elemental forces that are outthere and Is one of those, and
(19:13):
so when you, when you thinkabout the power of our helping
spirits and and who who comes tous as we work with these
ancient energies, these ancientbeings, these powerful
elementals, there's all kinds ofTeachers out there, and so the
(19:33):
more we have the opportunity tojourney to these great teachers,
the more we have a deeperunderstanding of what's possible
that we can bring to our world,and so we like to honor what
each one of us has brought Tothis circle around the fire.
So it's gonna be unique to each.
John Moir (19:55):
How would a family want to celebrate these older
women who perhaps don't seethemselves as a crone, as a wise
person, but by virtue of theirlove and the wisdom that they
carry, that they may not bespoken about, much is their way
of For a family to honor theelderly, the elder women who's
(20:18):
not recognized formally as acrone certain cultures will,
will have a great reverence whenmy mother was before she passed
away.
Mora File (20:29):
There are things that I think you have to.
Each family is going to have tocome to their own understanding
of what the gift of of thegrandmother or the mother has
brought to the lineage.
What's the lineage?
So yesterday we celebrated mymom, what would have been my
mom's 89th birthday, and so mydaughter made a special meal
(20:53):
that was a favorite of my mom's,and we sat around the table and
we just talked about what weremembered, about how she had
touched us and how, how she hadbrought joy to our lives, and so
, even for those who have gone,we need to continue to remember
and celebrate them, and so, forthe living, it's really about
(21:18):
Taking the time, especially attheir birthday, right, because
they've had another year aroundthe wheel, and would it not be a
beautiful thing to hold amoment of reverence and say
Thank you for having brought methis understanding, or thank you
for having shared this wisdom,or Thank you for having been a
(21:39):
light during my time of darkness, or right to just have a moment
of gratitude and Reflection onhow people touch our lives, and
so we try and make this happenwithin our family.
Well, you, grateful for thisperson, taught you how.
How can you hold that reverence?
And it's a beautiful thing ifyou can have.
(22:02):
My grandchildren have greatgrandparents still, but we try
and do things that are special,that make them feel that they're
not forgotten, right, and soSometimes it's a lot for my dad
to be around his greatgrandchildren because they are
busy and loud.
But this idea of creating atime of reverence, I think these
(22:27):
are traditions that we've lostthat need to be Created, and
ceremonies and rituals that canbe done To honor the gifts of
the elders that they bring toour world, even if it's a small
community or small.
There's great teachings that cancome through all of that.
John Moir (22:47):
Yeah, my mother passed these to be like 10 years
now Didn't seem like it's beenthat long.
But her greatest wisdom to mecame after her death and it was
a couple years after she passedand I was trying to just contact
her in the other world throughjourney, work and and it took me
(23:11):
two years and we finallyconnected and it was a
middle-world journey and shebasically just came walking into
a House, her house, and shelooked pretty much the same, a
little bit younger, I'd say,than when she passed.
But during our conversation Ihad asked her if she was proud
of me and she just looked at meand she says achievements don't
(23:33):
mean much on this side and andthat summed up our conversation
more or less, and it was afterthat, maria, I thought about
that of achievements have no, nomerit on that side, then our
failures have no merit, all thethings that we vix over, and
(23:54):
that part of it she left that.
I'm sure she left that part forme to just ponder and come up
with that piece of knowledge, orthat wisdom that, no matter how
much that we think that we get,that bigger house, the bigger
car Make, a zillion dollarsDoesn't matter, just as if we
never amount too much.
We can't hold down a job orwe've been blessed with
(24:17):
prolonged suffering, ourfailures Just don't have.
It doesn't matter.
We're all, at the end of theday, our sacred hearts.
Mora File (24:25):
Yes, it comes down to you, your heart.
It comes back to how muchkindness can you do for others,
how much can you?
If I bring any Wisdom into mygrandchildren's daily focus,
it's kindness.
Can we do something?
or say something that wouldreflect a kindness.
Did you do a kindness at schooltoday?
(24:48):
Have you done a kindness foryour mother today?
Or for me today?
What would be a kindness thatyou could do?
Maybe that's just a hug.
Maybe that's just a hug.
Maybe for them that's just tocome and give you a hug and
that's a kindness.
And so.
Oh, if, as a crone, I couldteach children to just be kind
(25:09):
each other into the world, thenwe would start to regenerate
that energy of kindness.
And that it's not about yourachievements, it's about even
our educational system is sogeared to us being successful.
So the grading you have a gradethat is an A, b or a C.
(25:33):
Somehow that's going todetermine how you interpret, how
you feel about yourself.
Based on what somebody else hasinterpreted.
You'd be, and so if you couldjust have a place of acceptance
that, like you say, I'm here,I'm learning, I have my
successes, I have my failuresand in the process I am growing.
(25:57):
And if I can continue to growand just be holding a place of,
does a tree ever say to itselfam I providing enough shelter?
Do I have enough branches tosupport enough mess?
Are my roots growing deepenough and linking with all of
(26:18):
these rooted systems?
No, a tree is just being, isjust being in that place of
unfolding, and maybe that'ssomething that, as a crone, you
have now learned that all of theachievements that you have made
, or all of the accolades thatyou have experienced, or all of
the awards that you might havewon, in the end it's just
(26:42):
hardware right that sits on ashelf, or all of all.
And can you be happy withyourself and with your place in
the world as one who can be kindto another, and that kindness
can be as smile as you want,amastry, and bold, adorft or
(27:04):
another older person, or justgive a hand because it's a kind
thing to do so do you think whatit comes to grief and grieving?
John Moir (27:16):
are the crones better prepared for that time in their
life than those who are younger, not yet come into a crone ship
?
Mora File (27:28):
I would speak from my own center maybe.
But I have no fear of deaths IfI live to be 90, I just become
an older crone.
But if I look at my niece whois 22, who has great fear of
dying, and is this cancer goingto come back and take me down?
I've watched it take otherpeople down, it might take me
(27:51):
down, and if you can just helppeople to understand that the
gifts that they bring to thisworld are not perhaps based on
the number of years that youhave lived in this lifetime.
But, what is the load that youhave brought in the time that
(28:11):
you have been here?
And so, yeah, it's aninteresting question to think
about.
I know lots of elderly peoplewho are very fearful of death.
They're not ready for it,they're not embracing it,
they're trying to squeezeeverything that they can out of
what's left of their life.
And I don't feel like I need todo that, maybe because I have
(28:37):
my shamanic understanding ofwhat it is to be a soul that
continues on the journey Right.
And so we are here in thislifetime holding a physical body
that if we can have kindnessand reverence for, then that can
(28:59):
ripple out and be kindness andreverence for others as well,
and so to be a light that shinesas an example of what's
possible.
When you talk to some churiansand you say, oh, what's the key
to your age and longevity?
And they will, every single onewill say happiness, joy.
(29:23):
Just don't let life stress youout, like, why are you getting
stressed out about things thatyou can't change?
We have to learn to accept andgrow and come from that place of
joy.
If you can come from that placeof joy and just have an open
(29:43):
heart, and even though acenturion has lost their
partners, they've probably losttheir friends, they've probably
lost some of their children, andstill they find joy.
And it's curious.
It's curious, right?
So what is it that they're?
Are they hanging on tosomething and not wanting to
(30:05):
leave, or are they just still ina place of joy?
It's not time to go yet.
So I've met some of those kindsof people and that's wonderful.
That's wonderful that they canhold that energy of joy.
So drive for that.
Drive for that.
John Moir (30:22):
Well, that would be a good place to say thank you.
Thank you for your wisdomtonight.
I'm sure that your words aregoing to be quite impressive to
those who listen to thisparticular episode, so I want to
thank you for making the timeto be on this show.
Mora File (30:38):
Thank you for making these podcasts open.
So blessings to you and allyou're doing too.
Love and gratitude.
Love and gratitude to you, mybrother.
John Moir (30:51):
Grief is a heavy burden to bear and can often
feel isolating and overwhelming.
That's where grief circles comein, offering a supportive and
understanding community to thosewho are grieving.
You can't be both the grieverand the container of your grief.
This is the purpose of griefcircles to be the holder and the
witness to your pain.
Your soul wants you to speak ofyour grief, to express your
(31:13):
pain, your loss and to shareyour history and stories of that
which has been taken.
The Urban Grief Shaman'spodcast is an offshoot of
Soulful Sorrows, a grief tendingwebsite.
Here under the service menu youwill find our monthly circles.
Please take the time to take alook and book into one or more
of these monthly circles.
Mora File (31:37):
Thank you for joining us into the world of.
John Moir (31:39):
Shamanism and its connection to grief healing and
spiritual growth.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, be sure to
subscribe to the Urban GriefShaman's, so you never miss an
episode.
And if you have any questionsor would like to explore this
topic further, please reach outto us through comments.
Until next time, may you findgrace and insight into your own
(31:59):
spiritual journey.
Welcome to another episode of the Urban Grief
Showman's podcast.
I'm your John Moir In today'sepisode, we're diving into a
topic that's as ancient as it isfascinating: the powerful role
of the crone.
and today I am joined by MoraFile extraordinary, a beacon in
the world of shamanic teachingand healing.
Marais will share insightsinto the crone's journey from
(02:02):
nurturing wisdom to So here weare, and I'm with a And I have
to confess, Marais, that otherthan I think Crone is of an
interesting name, I don't knowmuch about the whole archetype.
My good friend, shamanicteacher Mora File.
Mora has a 30-year history ofholding sacred women's circles,
so let's join her.
(02:29):
Has journeyed around thewheel and reached the place
where it would come to a time ofwisdom, right where we've had
the experience of being a youngchild, being a young maiden,
being a mother, and now, throughthe wisdom of having raised
(02:50):
children, not havingparticipated with grandchildren,
having managed grief, loss, allthese kinds of experiences that
bring the wisdom to what is ourcronhood, and so there is
Everything done done you,having you, And, yeah, we would
reflect on it as the wisdomyears coming to that time of
just understanding and sharingwisdom.
Have an experience, manyexperiences in life, an innate
understanding of the worldaround you and your place within
it.
Understanding of power andconnection to the creation
(03:11):
energy.
So to be a crone is one whounderstands the creation energy
and the process of the cycles oflife and death, and so we're
coming into that age ofreverence, that age of
thoughtfulness, consideration.
(04:10):
I think I understand that in previous times, there
were different initiations thatwomen healers and shamans would
go through on their way tobecoming a crone in the old
meaning.
Does any of that take placenowadays?
Mora File (04:12):
There certainly are ceremonies that can welcome
those who are coming of age.
Sometimes that's 50, sometimesthat's 55, sometimes that's 60.
65 and we just did a littlecroning ceremony actually back
(04:33):
in October, with two women fromour circle who have come into
that turning of the wheel,coming to that age of wisdom.
And yeah, these ceremoniesdefinitely happen and I think in
our culture we have lost a lotof those ceremonies of the
coming of age whether it'smoving from being a 12 year old
(04:56):
to a 14 year old and suddenlybeing a tween, but as a young
woman coming into her menses, asopposed to an older woman who
is completing that cycle.
And so the concept of what arewe birthing as we come into our
cronhood?
And so what we are birthing isa deeper connection to the world
(05:20):
around us and a responsibilityto be a wisdom keeper, whether
you are female or male, as wecome into these years and in the
wheel as we are as women,cronhood is a very revered place
to sit on the wheel so thatothers can come and ask
(05:42):
questions and have knowledge andwisdom shared in a manner.
That is the heart and there'sthat I just had an experience of
that yesterday with a niece whohas just gone through a fairly
significant bone cancer surgeryand it's been very hard for her.
And so I gave her somedivination cards and I gave her
(06:06):
some stones and I gave her sometechniques of breathing and
coming into center and asking aquestion and pulling a
divination card and having setup a sacred altar with a candle
and some smudge and, as a 22year old, if I'm not teaching
(06:27):
her that, how is she learning it?
Where is she finding that?
And she sent me a picture ofthis beautiful altar that she
created and how much better shewas feeling about herself and
her connection to her own soul,right to her own spiritual
journey through why me?
Why did this happen to me?
(06:48):
And that's a beautiful exampleof what we can do as Crones who
have had our own experiences oftrauma and challenge, and you
know, life is full ofdisappointments, life is full of
challenges, and how do we getthrough them?
And so, as shamans, we canjourney to our helping spirits
and we can ask these questionsand we can have various
(07:10):
different kinds of informationcome back to us or healings come
back to us, and this is allvery helpful.
And so how can we teach this toyounger and younger generations
to begin to navigate throughall of the challenges that they
are facing and the fears thatthey have around climate change
and what's going to happen onthe planet if we don't do
(07:33):
something?
And so there's lots of youthwho are very stressed, lots of
older people who are also verystressed.
And so the gift of working withthe spirit realms in whatever
way you work with the spiritrealms, those of us who have
studied shamanism have some verypowerful tools that we can work
with.
And so how do we share thosetools, as well as men and women,
(07:57):
with those who are searchingand wanting to find something to
create meaning in their lives?
John Moir (08:03):
So is there a difference between what you know
?
When I hear the word an elder,I think of somebody who is wise,
and male or female.
Is it a term that's usedinterchangeably, an elder
meaning either sex, where itscrown is considered a wise woman
(08:24):
, but an elder too?
Is it Definitely?
Yes, definitely, in your?
Mora File (08:28):
experience yeah, word elder, it's very nature is one
who has, like I say, gone aroundthe wheel a number of times and
gained wisdom in the process.
And perhaps the word crownwould also indicate one who has
been working with that spiritualrealm very consciously for many
years and so has has gonethrough all of the, all of the
(08:53):
stages, from a place of deeppractice and understanding that
the role that they have taken oncomes to a place of crownhood.
Elderhood is elderhood.
The elders of communities wouldhave a certain reverence placed
upon them because of the wisdomthat they are bringing to the
(09:16):
community and the stability orthe understanding of what is
needed and they can bring it tothe community and are that
people respect and havereverence for and will sit and
listen to an elder in the sameway that one would sit and
listen to the crown.
John Moir (09:38):
Yeah, the, when I do healing sessions, I love working
with my ancestors that I'llbring in to aid me, but I also
ask the client to call in theirancestors even if they're not
aware of who they are.
But it's the working withgrandmother energy is, for me,
(09:59):
it's just an incredibleexperience, and when I first
started, I didn't think thatthere would be much of a
difference between the ancestralgrandmothers or the ancestral
fathers, and but there issomething about it and I found
it to be slightly very wise, asthey both, but there's something
soft and nurturing and I justthought, man, that what we need
(10:23):
more of in this world right nowis more grandmother energy, and
so I guess that would bereflecting on we need more
crones.
Mora File (10:32):
Definitely If we're going to move out of patriarchal
grip, which is skill and themasculine energy by its nature
feels like it has to be theconqueror, whereas the matriarch
or the crown or the wise womanor the elder is very much more
(10:52):
the receptive.
So they they have a differentkind of a nurturing energy.
One of my longest, deepestconnections is with an ancient
grandmother helping spirit who Igo to all the time and meet her
at the sacred fire and she justis very wise and sometimes is
(11:14):
very quiet and says, saysnothing, but what she does
around the fire is the teachingright.
And so there are many ways thatwe can learn to understand and
listen and watch and observe andfeel that, as you say, this
grandmotherly energy is verycomforting, it's very soothing,
(11:37):
it's very calming.
There's a lot of comfort thatcomes from one who will just
embrace you and accept you forwho you are and where you are on
the path, and so, as a, that'sa lovely, that's a lovely
compassionate place to be,definitely.
John Moir (11:56):
If a woman is unable to have children but as she
grows older, that doesn'texclude her from being a crown,
does it?
Mora File (12:06):
Not at all.
Not at all.
I have many friends not havingthat experience.
Yeah, but they become thenurturers of their community.
They have lots of friends whoare healers or or therapists on
many different levels, who havebeen unable to have children or
have chosen not to have childrenor circumstances just did not
(12:27):
allow for that to occur, andthey still become the wise women
of the community and they holdall of the children of the
community in their hearts.
And, yeah, I would say yes,anyone who is an elder.
John Moir (12:46):
I was thinking of the women who are mothers because
they have adopted children andgrow old from that experience
and in many ways they have awhole body of knowledge that
women who are able to have theirown children in their younger
years wouldn't have, becausethey're not going through that
experience taking on children orinfants, I should say, or young
(13:10):
children as their own, andthere's a great wisdom in that
it's held by these women that dohold to the care of other
children.
Any thoughts?
Mora File (13:23):
Yes, absolutely no.
I know women who have fosteredchildren, who have adopted even
some of the children that theyhave fostered, but that, seeing
the need that is out there forthat nurturing, that nurturing
kindness and caring nature, thatis that feminine energy of
(13:47):
which we all have a masculineand feminine side.
So even there are lots ofnurturing male energy males out
there and who just have thatdeep compassionate side of
wanting to take care of andassist in healing and helping
others right.
Whether they're young childrenor older children, even as we
(14:14):
age, there is still that innerchild that needs to be held,
that needs to be taken care of,that needs to comfort it and
made to feel safe and secure,and we all have that potential
to provide and offer that toeach other, to our world.
John Moir (14:30):
So, yeah, what's your thoughts on?
Is there a place fortwo-spirited people?
Mora File (14:37):
For two-spirited people it would be the same kind
of level of compassion.
There's still kindness, there'sstill love, there's still
nurturing and consideration andthe understanding around who we
are as a heart-centered being,whether we are male, female,
(14:58):
two-spirited, whether weidentify as her, him, they.
There's many different waysthat we can identify with who we
feel we are and the mostimportant part of our identity
is that part of our soul that ishere to be of assistance and
bring something better into ourworld.
(15:20):
We all have that potential.
We all have that potential tobe that and, yeah, I wouldn't
separate anyone from having thatcapacity within their
heart-centered to do that.
John Moir (15:34):
Can you speak to the rituals for crone ceremonies?
Is there anything specific thatpeople practice?
How does the community cometogether for a celebration of
recognition?
Mora File (15:45):
To welcome a woman into cronhood is to receive and
honor her presence and tocelebrate her unique experiences
and the gifts that she bringsto the circle, brings to the
community.
And each one of us has had ourdifferent challenges, and so
(16:07):
it's through those differentchallenges that our unique light
shines.
And so when you're welcomingsomeone into that cronhood and
really celebrating their journey, celebrating who they are and
the experiences that they havegone through, that it brought
them to this time ofunderstanding more of who they
(16:30):
are and accepting more of whothey are and not being in
judgment, lots of people have alot of self-judgment.
By the time you come to a placewhere you can honor a sister
honor, a woman honor, a crone isto feel the wisdom coming from
and through them that they haveexperienced it because of the
(16:56):
age that they are, that youcan't be a crone at 25 because
you just haven't experiencedenough of what life's challenges
has been.
And so, even though you couldbe an old soul at 25, you still
need to navigate around thewheel for another 25 years to
(17:18):
really have an understanding ofwho you are and what it means
that you are here to bring intothe world with your unique gifts
and our celebrations andrituals would be to Dorn one
with a potentially a beautifulprayer shawl right.
And so when you see some ofthese elders, or your groans,
(17:42):
they will be adorned withcertain kinds of power necklaces
or Power shawls.
Maybe they maybe they have hairadornments that that are
Representing the gray hairs thatthat have come through their
time of journeying around thewheel.
You know, there's often anhonoring with All of the
(18:03):
elements, the elements of fire.
So, through smudging air through, through singing, through use
of feathers, the use of sacredwater that's been blessed in
sacred herbs or essences, andthis aspect of the earth walk,
that we are all here doing thisearth time and that it is as a
(18:26):
result of the dance that we'vebeen doing for however many
years We've been doing it.
To come into this time of cronhood is to really understand
your connection To the worldaround you, to the people who
are around you, to your own self.
There's just a deeperunderstanding of the oneness
(18:48):
You're not separate from and you.
You don't have to, you don'thave to prove yourself anymore,
there is just an acceptance thatcomes, and so the honoring of
all of these aspects of who youare as one who looks at the
elemental forces that are outthere and Is one of those, and
(19:13):
so when you, when you thinkabout the power of our helping
spirits and and who who comes tous as we work with these
ancient energies, these ancientbeings, these powerful
elementals, there's all kinds ofTeachers out there, and so the
(19:33):
more we have the opportunity tojourney to these great teachers,
the more we have a deeperunderstanding of what's possible
that we can bring to our world,and so we like to honor what
each one of us has brought Tothis circle around the fire.
So it's gonna be unique to each.
John Moir (19:55):
How would a family want to celebrate these older
women who perhaps don't seethemselves as a crone, as a wise
person, but by virtue of theirlove and the wisdom that they
carry, that they may not bespoken about, much is their way
of For a family to honor theelderly, the elder women who's
(20:18):
not recognized formally as acrone certain cultures will,
will have a great reverence whenmy mother was before she passed
away.
Mora File (20:29):
There are things that I think you have to.
Each family is going to have tocome to their own understanding
of what the gift of of thegrandmother or the mother has
brought to the lineage.
What's the lineage?
So yesterday we celebrated mymom, what would have been my
mom's 89th birthday, and so mydaughter made a special meal
(20:53):
that was a favorite of my mom's,and we sat around the table and
we just talked about what weremembered, about how she had
touched us and how, how she hadbrought joy to our lives, and so
, even for those who have gone,we need to continue to remember
and celebrate them, and so, forthe living, it's really about
(21:18):
Taking the time, especially attheir birthday, right, because
they've had another year aroundthe wheel, and would it not be a
beautiful thing to hold amoment of reverence and say
Thank you for having brought methis understanding, or thank you
for having shared this wisdom,or Thank you for having been a
(21:39):
light during my time of darkness, or right to just have a moment
of gratitude and Reflection onhow people touch our lives, and
so we try and make this happenwithin our family.
Well, you, grateful for thisperson, taught you how.
How can you hold that reverence?
And it's a beautiful thing ifyou can have.
(22:02):
My grandchildren have greatgrandparents still, but we try
and do things that are special,that make them feel that they're
not forgotten, right, and soSometimes it's a lot for my dad
to be around his greatgrandchildren because they are
busy and loud.
But this idea of creating atime of reverence, I think these
(22:27):
are traditions that we've lostthat need to be Created, and
ceremonies and rituals that canbe done To honor the gifts of
the elders that they bring toour world, even if it's a small
community or small.
There's great teachings that cancome through all of that.
John Moir (22:47):
Yeah, my mother passed these to be like 10 years
now Didn't seem like it's beenthat long.
But her greatest wisdom to mecame after her death and it was
a couple years after she passedand I was trying to just contact
her in the other world throughjourney, work and and it took me
(23:11):
two years and we finallyconnected and it was a
middle-world journey and shebasically just came walking into
a House, her house, and shelooked pretty much the same, a
little bit younger, I'd say,than when she passed.
But during our conversation Ihad asked her if she was proud
of me and she just looked at meand she says achievements don't
(23:33):
mean much on this side and andthat summed up our conversation
more or less, and it was afterthat, maria, I thought about
that of achievements have no, nomerit on that side, then our
failures have no merit, all thethings that we vix over, and
(23:54):
that part of it she left that.
I'm sure she left that part forme to just ponder and come up
with that piece of knowledge, orthat wisdom that, no matter how
much that we think that we get,that bigger house, the bigger
car Make, a zillion dollarsDoesn't matter, just as if we
never amount too much.
We can't hold down a job orwe've been blessed with
(24:17):
prolonged suffering, ourfailures Just don't have.
It doesn't matter.
We're all, at the end of theday, our sacred hearts.
Mora File (24:25):
Yes, it comes down to you, your heart.
It comes back to how muchkindness can you do for others,
how much can you?
If I bring any Wisdom into mygrandchildren's daily focus,
it's kindness.
Can we do something?
or say something that wouldreflect a kindness.
Did you do a kindness at schooltoday?
(24:48):
Have you done a kindness foryour mother today?
Or for me today?
What would be a kindness thatyou could do?
Maybe that's just a hug.
Maybe that's just a hug.
Maybe for them that's just tocome and give you a hug and
that's a kindness.
And so.
Oh, if, as a crone, I couldteach children to just be kind
(25:09):
each other into the world, thenwe would start to regenerate
that energy of kindness.
And that it's not about yourachievements, it's about even
our educational system is sogeared to us being successful.
So the grading you have a gradethat is an A, b or a C.
(25:33):
Somehow that's going todetermine how you interpret, how
you feel about yourself.
Based on what somebody else hasinterpreted.
You'd be, and so if you couldjust have a place of acceptance
that, like you say, I'm here,I'm learning, I have my
successes, I have my failuresand in the process I am growing.
(25:57):
And if I can continue to growand just be holding a place of,
does a tree ever say to itselfam I providing enough shelter?
Do I have enough branches tosupport enough mess?
Are my roots growing deepenough and linking with all of
(26:18):
these rooted systems?
No, a tree is just being, isjust being in that place of
unfolding, and maybe that'ssomething that, as a crone, you
have now learned that all of theachievements that you have made
, or all of the accolades thatyou have experienced, or all of
the awards that you might havewon, in the end it's just
(26:42):
hardware right that sits on ashelf, or all of all.
And can you be happy withyourself and with your place in
the world as one who can be kindto another, and that kindness
can be as smile as you want,amastry, and bold, adorft or
(27:04):
another older person, or justgive a hand because it's a kind
thing to do so do you think whatit comes to grief and grieving?
John Moir (27:16):
are the crones better prepared for that time in their
life than those who are younger, not yet come into a crone ship
?
Mora File (27:28):
I would speak from my own center maybe.
But I have no fear of deaths IfI live to be 90, I just become
an older crone.
But if I look at my niece whois 22, who has great fear of
dying, and is this cancer goingto come back and take me down?
I've watched it take otherpeople down, it might take me
(27:51):
down, and if you can just helppeople to understand that the
gifts that they bring to thisworld are not perhaps based on
the number of years that youhave lived in this lifetime.
But, what is the load that youhave brought in the time that
(28:11):
you have been here?
And so, yeah, it's aninteresting question to think
about.
I know lots of elderly peoplewho are very fearful of death.
They're not ready for it,they're not embracing it,
they're trying to squeezeeverything that they can out of
what's left of their life.
And I don't feel like I need todo that, maybe because I have
(28:37):
my shamanic understanding ofwhat it is to be a soul that
continues on the journey Right.
And so we are here in thislifetime holding a physical body
that if we can have kindnessand reverence for, then that can
(28:59):
ripple out and be kindness andreverence for others as well,
and so to be a light that shinesas an example of what's
possible.
When you talk to some churiansand you say, oh, what's the key
to your age and longevity?
And they will, every single onewill say happiness, joy.
(29:23):
Just don't let life stress youout, like, why are you getting
stressed out about things thatyou can't change?
We have to learn to accept andgrow and come from that place of
joy.
If you can come from that placeof joy and just have an open
(29:43):
heart, and even though acenturion has lost their
partners, they've probably losttheir friends, they've probably
lost some of their children, andstill they find joy.
And it's curious.
It's curious, right?
So what is it that they're?
Are they hanging on tosomething and not wanting to
(30:05):
leave, or are they just still ina place of joy?
It's not time to go yet.
So I've met some of those kindsof people and that's wonderful.
That's wonderful that they canhold that energy of joy.
So drive for that.
Drive for that.
John Moir (30:22):
Well, that would be a good place to say thank you.
Thank you for your wisdomtonight.
I'm sure that your words aregoing to be quite impressive to
those who listen to thisparticular episode, so I want to
thank you for making the timeto be on this show.
Mora File (30:38):
Thank you for making these podcasts open.
So blessings to you and allyou're doing too.
Love and gratitude.
Love and gratitude to you, mybrother.
John Moir (30:51):
Grief is a heavy burden to bear and can often
feel isolating and overwhelming.
That's where grief circles comein, offering a supportive and
understanding community to thosewho are grieving.
You can't be both the grieverand the container of your grief.
This is the purpose of griefcircles to be the holder and the
witness to your pain.
Your soul wants you to speak ofyour grief, to express your
(31:13):
pain, your loss and to shareyour history and stories of that
which has been taken.
The Urban Grief Shaman'spodcast is an offshoot of
Soulful Sorrows, a grief tendingwebsite.
Here under the service menu youwill find our monthly circles.
Please take the time to take alook and book into one or more
of these monthly circles.
Mora File (31:37):
Thank you for joining us into the world of.
John Moir (31:39):
Shamanism and its connection to grief healing and
spiritual growth.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, be sure to
subscribe to the Urban GriefShaman's, so you never miss an
episode.
And if you have any questionsor would like to explore this
topic further, please reach outto us through comments.
Until next time, may you findgrace and insight into your own
(31:59):
spiritual journey.
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