April 8, 2024 • 49 mins
Jen Frey's grandparents' garden was more than just a patch of earth—it was a sanctuary where plants spoke and the heart could heal. As she walks you through her family's legacy of organic gardening and the profound wisdom that plants offer, we'll uncover the intertwined dynamics of nature and nurture. Discover the shamanic paths, herbal remedies that have shaped Jen's journey.
Grief, a path often walked alone, finds an unexpected companion in the flora surrounding us. We delve into the transformative power of the Black-Eyed Susan, a flower that reframes our narratives of trauma and loss. The conversation blossoms into a discourse on the profound role of plants in emotional healing and the unexpected solace they can offer through our connections with them. Join us as Jen from Bridget's Way shares her spiritual insights and how the Celtic goddess Bridget inspires her mission to foster a harmonious bond with the natural world.
Jen's offerings, from plant communication to nature co-creation, beckon us to bridge the human-spirit divide, inviting listeners to join us on this transformative journey of discovery and healing.
Please feel free to leave a comment here.
Transcription
Guest Bio
Jen Frey is a healer, mentor, and advocate for the earth, with a unique voice in plant communication. As the founder of Heart Springs Sanctuary, she enriches people's lives by deepening their bond with nature through plant communication. With two decades of experience in plant essences, energy work, and herbal practices, Jen offers transformative consultations and plant-based solutions for emotional transitions, health crises, and chronic conditions.
She is the author of "Communicating with Plants: Heart-Based Practices for Connecting with Plant Spirits," a guide to unlocking the healing and wisdom of plants.
Jen's book, view here. Visit Jen's website here.
🌿 Feeling stuck or spiritually disconnected?
At Soulful Energy Medicine, I help you release energetic blocks, clear emotional pain, and reconnect with your true self. You’ll find a safe, grounded space for soul-level transformation through virtual healing sessions.
✨ Book your free discovery call: Soulful Energy Medicine
Foundation for Shamanic Studies: Explore here
“The Way of the Shaman” book by Michael Harner
Society for Shamanic Practice: Explore here
Connect
John@urbangriefshamans.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John (00:01):
Where I'd like to go is to your first experiences with
your grandparents.
In your book, you spoke of thisunique experience, that they
introduced you to this path,that you're on.
Jen Frey (00:18):
My grandparents were just amazing, loving, wonderful
people to be with, and I wasblessed to spend lots of time
with them, and my lastgrandmother just died a few
months ago.
I also just turned 48.
So to have grandparents in yourlife that long is such a gift.
But so, yes, I don't have amemory of plants not being
(00:41):
important in my life.
My mom is incredible at keepinghouseplants alive.
Don't ask her to garden, shedoesn't like to garden, but
houseplants yes.
So I always send my houseplantsto her when they need a little
bit more attention.
But my grandparents both ofthem, both sets of them grew
their own food, and so theytaught me from an early age that
(01:01):
the best medicine comes fromyour backyard.
And my maternal grandfather?
He was 100% into organicgardening.
He was a lifetime subscriber toOrganic Gardening Magazine, but
he was following thosepractices before that even
became a big deal, and RodaleInstitute started right where I
(01:21):
grew up or near where I grew up.
So it was very much in hisawareness and so he taught me
that you have to sing to theplants.
His greenhouse always had musicplaying for them.
We asked permission beforeharvesting.
He never quite said aboutcommunicating with the plants.
(01:42):
Later in life, my grandfatherhad dementia, and so while he
was still with it, he made sureto give me all of his gardening
books, and one of them was theSecret Life of Plants by Peter
Tompkins and Christopher Bird,which is all about the
intelligence of plants.
Unfortunately, I didn't readthat until my grandfather was
(02:03):
too far gone, because by thetime I read it I was like, oh, I
didn't read that until mygrandfather was too far gone,
because by the time I read it Iwas like, oh, I think he did
communicate, but he just didn'thave anyone to talk to about it.
So that was a great sadness inmy life.
But, yes, my grandparents werepivotal in my experience
connecting with plants andunderstanding that plants are
just incredible conscious beings.
(02:24):
Though they never used thatword, treated them like, like
they were conscious beings didyou have any idea of the path
that they were leading you on?
like that at the time oh my gosh, no, um, that would be
wonderful.
And I think sometimes peoplelike sometimes when people hear
(02:45):
my story or other teachers'stories, you forget that there's
like all these curves and upsand downs, like we don't really
know.
Until fourth grade and in thestrangest way, we got these
weekly readers and there was oneabout a shaman, and when they
(03:09):
were describing what they did Iwas like, oh, this is the
healing that I have been wantingto do.
But in that article it said youhad to be male and indigenous.
So I wasn't, obviously I'm notthat.
So I scratched that off thelist.
But then I tried, like allthese different ways of like,
okay, well, how can I meet thisdream?
And so I started with herbs bybetween fifth and sixth grade
(03:34):
Time, like, really saved me fromhaving to take antibiotics.
So that was my introduction toherbs and I dove in more.
And then junior high, I startedwith flower essences and
homeopathy.
So I started all theseroundabout ways, and one of my
newer revelations that I hadn'tthought about in a long time was
I had wanted to be acardiologist when I was late
(03:58):
junior high, and it's because Ireally thought the heart was
just so important and I wantedto help people have healthy
hearts and in high school Ishadowed a cardiologist who was
a woman and she told me look, ifyou want to have family, if you
want to have kids, this is notthe right profession to be in.
So I scratched that too.
(04:19):
But now, coming full circle,when I had this realization, I
was like, oh my gosh, the heartis the center of all of the work
that I do.
So here I am and my program.
I have an apprenticeship Icalled Heart Transformation,
because it's all about the heart.
So it's the same thing.
So the path has always beenthere.
But no, I did not know where Iwas going.
(04:40):
My grandparents definitelydidn't know where I was going
and they would be shocked.
John (04:44):
know where I was going, my grandparents definitely didn't
know where I was going and theywould be shocked.
Actually, when did the idea ofkey and kin come into this?
Did this come from yourgrandfather?
Jen Frey (04:53):
No, this came from Robin Wall Kimmerer, so I think
I'm not sure that came out ofbraiding sweetgrass.
Yeah.
So I'm not sure.
I have to go back and look atdates.
I'm not sure what was first.
She wrote Braiding Sweetgrassand she talked about it there.
But she also wrote an articlefor yes Magazine called Nature
(05:13):
Needs a New Pronoun, and sowherever I heard it first,
that's what started it, but itis that nature needs a new
pronoun.
I give that to all of mystudents in all of my classes
and encourage the use of ki isthe singular non-gendered
pronoun for animated pronouns.
(05:34):
So rather than using it, andthen ch'in is plural.
So yeah, it comes from Robin.
John (05:40):
It's a wonderful way to relate to the plant life.
It really personalizes them,doesn't it?
Jen Frey (05:47):
It makes you feel that it's not an object, but it's
somebody who's just visiting forthe summer now, when I read
people who are in this work,working with plant spirits or
herbs or whatever and I'mreading their stuff and they use
(06:13):
it it's like it jostles me, ithits me in the heart and I'm
like have to read.
And so I've realized that usingthese pronouns, we don't think
about how important language is,but it's so important and so
using those pronouns have reallyshifted my brain, even though
long before that I thoughtplants were alive and I would
always ask their permission andhave conversations with them as
if they were intelligent beings,because they are.
The pronouns themselves changedthat relationship as well.
John (06:36):
It brings respect into the light when dealing with plants
in many ways.
That's what I found using it.
It just was a higher level ofother than just being tender
with them but referring to themin this ways.
That's what I found using it.
It just was a higher level ofother than just being tender
with them but referring to themin this way.
What was life like just beforeyou met Pam?
For you, how far along yourpath were you and how big of an
(06:56):
influence, if any, was PamMontgomery?
Jen Frey (07:00):
So life was well.
There's a few things to answerhere.
Life was chaotic and awful.
My life was chaotic and awful.
Do you want to think about that?
To be a flower essencepractitioner.
(07:21):
So I started with herbs.
I started with a small herbpractice, but I always herbs.
I feel like it's a foreignlanguage to me.
So I just always have tostruggle with them and everybody
was on medication and I didn'tknow how that was interacting in
their body, let alone to throwan herb in there.
So when I finally studied withDavid and Kate and they were
(07:41):
together, I was studying withthem together it was just like
this huge light bulb went off.
It's like, oh, this is what I'mmeant to be doing.
It's like I understand this, Idon't have to work at it, they
just blow through me.
It makes sense.
So I already had my practice.
I had been teaching clientcommunication for many years
before I met with Pam.
So when I got to meet Pam, whenI got to study with her, it was
(08:08):
really a deepening in of what Ialready knew and a confirmation
of what I knew, and that'sgoing to go back to this chaotic
time.
So what was going on in my lifeis I was really living in two
worlds.
I was in a very toxic marriagewith a narcissist, and I didn't
know what a narcissist was atthe time, so I had no
understanding of what was goingon.
It wasn't until many years oftherapy afterwards that I
(08:30):
finally got to like say oh, sothat wasn't actually healthy.
So I had been mostly astay-at-home mom and when my
kids and I homeschooled my kidsand but then when they started
going to school, I had all thistime to just be with the plants
and I would have theseincredible experiences that I
(08:50):
didn't hear from any otherteachers and I would want to
share them with my then husbandand he thought I was lying and
making it all up, so he didn'tcare if that's how I spent my
time during the day, but when hewas around I wasn't allowed to
discuss it and we had to go.
He was a financial advisor, sowe had to go really deep into
the superficial aspects of ourculture and so I was split.
(09:18):
It just became really obviousthat I could no longer if I was
going to continue down this way.
I couldn't be in that marriage.
And there was another big,important catalyst in my life
that actually led me to studywith Pam, and that's that my
brother died suddenly in 2011 atthe age of 36.
And so I was deep in grief whenI went to meet Pam as well.
(09:41):
So my world was alreadyshifting and it was already
becoming obvious I couldn't goback to where I was before as
well.
So my world was alreadyshifting and it was already
becoming obvious I couldn't goback to where I was before his
death.
So that's where life was notwonderful.
My time with the plants wasincredible and amazing, and then
once I made the decision toleave that's when we make those
decisions that everybody thinksthe leaving is the hard part,
(10:02):
but it's really the part leadingup to the leaving that's the
real part Once you make thatchoice, everything flows and you
get rewarded Not reward, Idon't like that word but life
becomes more wonderful.
But you're not losing all thatenergy that it's taking for you
just to try to survive andmaintain, just try to stay as
(10:24):
healthy as you can in a reallyunhealthy situation.
So when you get all that energyback, it's like, oh, now I can
like really do follow my heartand really do what feeds me.
John (10:35):
Jen, can you talk a little bit about the basic forms of
plant communication and how doyou know?
Or, for the listeners, howwould they know that what
they're experiencing is real?
Jen Frey (10:47):
Yeah.
So, like I said earlier, my workis all based around the heart,
and the heart is really thecenter.
And that's one of the big thingsin our culture is that we tend
to put everything into the brainand logic and reason, and
communicating with naturedoesn't necessarily fit there
because it's beyond anythingthat we can even imagine.
(11:08):
So we have to start by gettinginto our heart.
So that's the basis foranything and everything, and
it's still the basis for me.
I mean, like they have tocommunicate with me, not
necessarily all the time, butsometimes, like we were just at
a special, we were on vacationat this really special place and
I'm just trying to relax andI'm getting messages for them.
So that doesn't happen all thetime, but if I want to
(11:29):
communicate with the plants, Istill have to start by getting
into my heart.
There's so many ways to do that.
The easiest way that I find,and the way that I most teach,
is to work with gratitude andhow we know that we're in our
heart space is because there's aphysiological shift in our
bodies.
Our breathing tends to slow Forme, my shoulders will drop,
(11:52):
sometimes inches.
Our bodies relax, our heartrate slows, we just we feel
crawler Sometimes.
We'll feel, sometimes my handswill feel big or my feet feel
weird, like we might havedifferent body sensations.
So when we're in that space,then we know that we are more
able to receive information.
(12:14):
So first step, if you want tocommunicate with the plant, is
to look for a plant that wantsto communicate with you, like
who's showing up in your life,because we just think that
nobody wants to communicate withyou, like who's showing up in
your life, because we just thinkthat nobody wants to
communicate with us.
But once people start to learnthis, then they often get
overwhelmed because all of theplants want to communicate with
them at the same time.
(12:34):
So go ahead.
John (12:37):
Sorry, I was just going to say that I had always learned
that just look around your house, because the ones that you need
most will be growing aroundyour house.
Jen Frey (12:46):
It might be weed.
John (12:47):
No, not weed.
I mean any kind of plant, RightFrom a mullein to a wild
cabbage.
Whatever it might be that youneed to relate to, or that
medicine, that's a good place tostart.
Jen Frey (12:59):
Absolutely, and that's one of the reasons why.
So I always taught plantcommunication in person and I
prefer to teach in person, but Istarted doing them virtually
during COVID just because we hadto.
And it became such anincredible experience because
people were communicating withthe plants that are right there
that they've had relationshipswith Some they've known they've
(13:19):
had the relationships and othersthey didn't, but it made it so
much more personal for them.
So I love that.
I think it is important to workwith the plants that are right
there.
Often we think we have to go toexotic places or really rare
plants, but it's the ones thatshow up for us every day that
have the most impact on ourlives.
John (13:40):
Now just go over again that our little Zoom workshop
with you, where we had to gooutside and do the same, find a
plant that wants to communicatewith you, and I can't remember.
How did you know the name ofthe plant that I was working
with?
Jen Frey (13:57):
Oh, because I knew the plant Well.
I can't remember if you sent me.
I think you sent a picture, butI'm not sure.
John (14:05):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I sent you a picture, that's right, that's
right.
But you somehow thecharacteristics of what we're
finding out you also knew about,and I was just surprised by the
whole experience of, becausethere's a number of ones that I
was drawn to but they justdidn't feel right.
I said no, thank you, and thenas soon as I found this garlic
(14:30):
mustard plant that was besidethe house, down a little dingy
laneway, it just spoke volumes,but it was a beautiful
experience.
Now I wanted to explore someideas in your Chapter 10.
And where I want to direct theconversation is around grief and
(14:52):
the exploration of how plants,plant communication, plant
medicine can be a great servicefor those who are grieving
deeply and just to have thatkind of extra support is,
they'll find, quite profound.
So in Chapter 10, you'representing the Black-Eyed Susan
plant, and what I liked aboutthe title that you picked was
(15:15):
Changing Our Story and why thisRelates.
It seemed to me that you weretalking about people who are
having difficulty formingattachments, and I was reading
for me between the lines thatthey had experienced some kind
of grief or trauma.
Would you be able to speakabout that?
Jen Frey (15:31):
So of course you bring up that chapter, and I say of
course because, as I say veryhonestly in the book, that's the
chapter that I had the hardesttime with.
I must have rewritten it atleast 30 times and I'm still not
completely happy with what cameout, but the plants have
continued to work with me andthat is growing a lot more.
So I said that's the one that Ihad the hardest time writing.
(15:54):
But also I was shocked that theplants wanted Black-Eyed Susan
in the book, because I thoughtwe were talking mostly about
light, and there are otherplants that I work with.
I only work with Black-eyedSusan in small instances, but
since the book has come out andtalking with so many people,
that is the it's amazing howBlack-eyed Susan has continued
to come up.
(16:15):
So this is a huge subject andI'll just say that I'm used to
hearing people's trauma storiesand I'm actually really like I
read all kinds of books abouttrauma, because I'm fascinated
by how we respond to trauma andhow we are.
Our bodies, our brains.
All of it are so incredible.
Now, we're so adaptable waymore adaptable than what we
(16:35):
realize and so we have all thesemechanisms for trying to
survive through our trauma, tosurvive through our trauma.
And what the plants say, whatall of nature says, if we work
with them, is that we're not ourtrauma and they want to help us
to heal it so that we canremember who we really are.
And on top of that, I also justhave to say that trauma isn't in
(16:58):
of itself a bad thing, liketrauma or the processing of our
trauma can give us really biggifts.
Like everything in life,there's gifts not saying that we
want to go around traumatizingpeople, so, yeah, so Black Eye
Susan, one of her gifts ishelping us to look at the
experiences that we've had inlife and see them in a different
(17:21):
way, and so that's where thegift comes out.
No-transcript.
Okay, so I'm just pausingbecause my guides are giving me
information, so I'm just goingto back up a little bit.
And if we we all have familymembers, right and if we ever
(17:42):
share, if you get, if you havethe privilege of having siblings
, and you ever talk about astory from your childhood with
your siblings, everybody's goingto have a different perspective
.
John (17:51):
Yes no-transcript.
Jen Frey (18:23):
respond to it.
And the energy that's heldwithin, like the story that we
attach to it, that's what tripsus up again and again, and so if
we can shift that, then thathelps to release the energy from
our bodies and then invites whoknows what into our lives.
John (18:41):
I see grief.
I mean, I've been a deepgriever, I would say, since
childhood, and then there was areally big one that the mother
of my kids had passed away, onethat the mother of my kids had
passed away and what I'velearned is that with grief, it's
a quintessential emotion thatreally defines the kind of
(19:03):
person that we will become.
It's like that deep soul, deepheart, energy that we need to,
whether would take it to betaken down and then just work
with that hard, hard energy, orwe just bury it and don't do
anything with it, which makesour life even smaller, with less
(19:31):
capacity for compassion andlove.
But everybody, there's been noone who's ever been on this
planet that hasn't gone throughgrief in some form right.
As they say, everything that welove, we will lose, and right up
to the very last breath that wetake is our big loss when we
leave this world.
And so I just love that ideathat this transformation, this
powerful transformation thatcomes to us is through this deep
(19:55):
emotion, and there's no otherway to get there.
I mean when we, as you wrote inyour book, love is healing, and
so that's why grief and loveare sisters, that they grief in
one hand and love in the other,and it just the more we can
carry, the bigger our embracebecomes and the greater, or the
(20:16):
larger, life.
And so what I loved about BlackEyed Susan was that for me?
it was hitting on that, that too, but perhaps more gently than
grief.
But it's, all part of it, isn'tit?
That's what I was looking forwith the wisdom of plants to
help us through these bigtransformations in our life.
Jen Frey (20:38):
Yeah, they're definitely there to help us
through.
And the part with grief thatgoes back to what I was saying
with my brother that when, again, when he died and there's grief
never manifests the same wayfor anybody, everybody and every
relationship.
When we lose, like if we'reonly talking about grief in the
(20:59):
terms of losing a loved humanbeing or maybe an animal being,
because there's so manydifferent forms of grief.
But if that's what how we lookat this, or that's the lens that
we're looking at right now,depending on our relationship,
we have different levels ofgrief.
So, like when my grandmotherjust died, I did have grief.
It shocked me actually thedepth of grief.
So, like, when my grandmotherjust died, I did have grief.
It shocked me actually thedepth of grief that I had
because we had been knowing thiswas going to happen for a long
(21:20):
time and she was 98 or 95.
So, like it was a ton, Whereasmy brother was 36 and it was
quite sudden.
It was such a shock to all ofus.
But what happened in thatmoment when my brother died is
that my whole world broke apart.
And when you lose somebodyagain, even if it's somebody
that is like going to die, whenthey're foundational in your
(21:43):
life, it has to rock yourfoundation.
John (21:46):
And.
Jen Frey (21:46):
I think this is what you're getting to.
Is that how it defines a person?
Because it rocks our foundationand it is an opportunity, if we
choose to take it and noteverybody takes it If we choose
to take it, it is an opportunityto reevaluate our life and
what's really important.
And let's just be completelyhonest in our culture, so much
(22:08):
of what we think is important isactually not important.
They're not, and it's actuallyquite harmful for us as human
beings to be like alive, awake,aware humans.
Well, greece gives us thatbrief opportunity of like who
are we?
Because we just lost.
What I'm getting right now isthat we like to think that we
(22:29):
are these separate beings, butwe're not.
We're interconnected.
So when this being leaves ourlife, we lost a part of us.
John (22:37):
Yes, very much so.
Jen Frey (22:39):
Right.
So now we have to readjust andof course that takes, sometimes
years, sometimes, like I think,the grief is always there.
I'm guessing I will always missmy brother and grieve him, but
it's definitely not like when hefirst died.
I was on the floor for daysjust in a puddle of tears,
unable to do anything, andclearly I'm not doing that
(22:59):
anymore.
And just going back to thisconnection of grief and love,
the thing that helped me to getthrough my brother's, the grief
around my brother, wasrecognizing that if I hadn't
experienced the love with himthat I had experienced, I
wouldn't have experienced thelevel of grief.
So they are intimatelyconnected and grief is the
(23:22):
ultimate expression of love.
John (23:25):
Very much, so I agree with that.
What did you say with that?
Did you want to share a littlebit about Michael and why your
love was so intense for him?
Jen Frey (23:33):
My brother Michael.
Yeah, so my brother.
John (23:36):
Michael Sounds like quite an individual the way that you
spoke of him in your book.
Jen Frey (23:41):
He was.
So first my brother Michael.
We're not biological siblings.
Our parents married when I wasfive and he was six, so we were
18 months apart.
But he came into my life when Iwas three and he was four.
So we grew up together and Idon't know, he was quite an
individual.
He was the center of my world.
He was the center of myuniverse.
Funny as could be, he wouldroll on the floor with laughter
(24:05):
and you could be so angry withhim and yet you would just have
to laugh.
So my brother tended to getaway with a lot because
everybody just laughed.
But he, going back to thistrauma, I still I have my
suspicions, but I still don'tknow what it was.
But there was some kind of atrauma in his life, I would say
(24:27):
around middle school age andmaybe even late elementary.
And so he started experimentingwith alcohol and drugs and he
became an addict and he had manyyears where he was really good
and he got his life back in line.
But then he needed somesurgeries and he was given
(24:47):
oxytocin.
So it was really like he gothooked and it was about six
weeks after he got oxytocin.
Then he died and it was sorry,not oxytocin we love Oxycontin
and it was brutal.
It was just brutal.
He had a son that was.
I've never seen a parent love achild the way my brother loved
his son, and so that's a giftfor us that we get to still see
(25:09):
his son, who looks so much likehim.
And and yeah, I don't know, Idon't know, nobody ever asked me
to talk about him, so I don'tquite know what to say.
John (25:18):
Well, thank you for sharing that part, because it
really did touch me in the bookand for me it really set up the
following chapters and gave abeautiful foundation for what
you would write about in furtherchapters.
So in moving on you talk aboutreleasing grief and romancing
(25:41):
plants.
I can't say that I've everheard it put that way before,
but I understand.
Will you touch on that first?
Jen Frey (25:49):
Sure, the romancing plants part.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
So this is something that theplant showed me.
I have this ash tree that Iabsolutely fell in love with
when I was doing my training ofthe Pan-McDumrey place and as I
was doing this, oh, actually I'msorry I'm getting ahead of
myself.
That's why you're ahead.
So just the one who gave me thename Romancing the Plants.
(26:11):
But my first experience wasactually with willow, and this
was many years before nameromance in the plants.
But my first experience wasactually with willow, and this
was many years before.
And, um, and I was in a classoh, actually, with starhawk and
was at our local college in themiddle of the suburbs and they
had like a little garden outsideand we were I don't quite know
what the exercise was anymore,but I know we were supposed to
(26:31):
connect with the plant and so Iand we our eyes were supposed to
be closed.
So I connected with thisbeautiful old willow tree there
and all of a sudden I had anorgasm, just standing there
connecting with this tree,surrounded by people, eyes
closed, completely closed, likenot attempting any of this, and
(26:55):
it shocked me and I was likewhat is happening?
And now, since then I've donelots of work, and so now I
understand what was happening.
What we even call orgasm issimply energy moving through us
drifting through us.
So that's what I was feeling.
But that was such an unknownexperience to me.
One of the things that Ilearned from Pam that she had a
(27:17):
similar experience that was like, oh okay, so I'm not crazy,
this is a thing.
But again, afterwards I startedworking with the plants more
and realized it's possible.
So from that I started workingwith plants as well.
I'm going to use this term, buta lover and I don't mean like I
like honestly, I don't go outto have orgasms with plants.
(27:40):
It's not something that I needto do, that I want to do, but
it's really just recognizingthat plants are other beings who
I can love and I can experiencelove with, because I get lots
like with.
When I with plants, you justget so much unconditional love.
John (27:57):
Yes, and you feel it.
It's a very physical response.
Jen Frey (28:00):
Right, and so they gave me this practice called
romancing the plants, andthere's really no I say practice
, but there's really no practiceBecause really, just looking at
them as if a lover, touch themas if they're your lover, speak
to them as if they're your lover, write them love poems, how do
(28:21):
you engage with a plant and feelthat energy?
And I continue to share itbecause what I've noticed is,
unfortunately, there are so manypeople that have been so
traumatized in theirrelationships with other humans
that they don't feel safe inromantic situations, or
sometimes even just in theperiphery of humans, and so when
they're engaging in romancingthe plants, it allows them to
have that experience of love andsafe relating with another
(28:48):
being.
And also in my classes, one ofthe times that I taught this,
everybody was like I don't knowhow to romance somebody, like I
don't know what that means, soit was like, oh, okay, well, so
the plants also help us to learnthat.
Help us to learn how we want tobe greeted, what makes us feel
loved and how do we show that toanother person or another being
(29:10):
, and so it has profound healingimplications, as well as
another way to receiveinformation and guidance from
the prayer.
John (29:20):
Can you share the exercise Romancing your Plant Ally you
included in the chapter.
Jen Frey (29:25):
Yeah.
So what I encourage people todo, like I said, is to write a
love poem.
So you want to?
Again, we always start from theheart.
So you want to get in with yourheart, connect with your a love
pole, just as if they weresomebody you're courting.
So that's part of this wholework with plants is that our
(29:48):
society is so used to.
I don't like pam talks aboutseduction and I don't even want
to say it's seduction.
It's almost like um kidnapping,like one of the images that's
getting is like hitting peopleover the top of the head.
And we're very non-consensualas a society and even when it
comes to selling things, we wantto force you to buy this,
whether you want it or not.
(30:08):
And the plants?
That's not how nature works.
Everything's based on consentand it has to be beneficial to
all beings involved, and soworking with the plants in this
way, it's learning how to court,learning how to like, really
recognize what makes them feelloved, what do they need, as
well as like, then translatingit to another being so we work
(30:31):
with.
It's a long way of saying wewrite a poem.
John (30:34):
Is the poem the kickstarter for having people
then go out with an open heartand find a plant to communicate
love to.
Jen Frey (30:44):
So it's more the other way around.
It's more like the poem is well, it's not really the
culmination we want.
Generally we're doing we have arelationship with the plant
before we get to the poem.
So that's why I don't startwith that exercise because, just
like anybody, if we take itback to human relations, we
don't know when we go out on afirst date with somebody we're
(31:05):
not going to want to like.
We don't know everything thatthey need or that they want or
they love.
We don't want to open up ourhearts real far Not with plants.
It's safe.
You can open your hearts as faras you want the first time, but
there's a getting to know.
And so the more we work withplants or any aspect of nature,
the more we work with them, themore they reveal themselves and
(31:26):
then the easier it is for us toexpress our love to them.
John (31:29):
Yeah, I liked how you approached the plant and it was
like when touching it.
It's like a soft stroking,what's the word?
I'm not expressing this right.
Jen Frey (31:38):
Caressing.
John (31:39):
Caressing with the palm and then maybe the back of your
fingers, right, and I've beendoing that for a long time, and
now that my granddaughters aregetting a little older, I even
taught one of the girls that'stwo years old how to approach a
plant and do the same thing Justto caress with your soft hand
and then the back of your hand.
So she was doing that with hermother later on.
Jen Frey (32:02):
I love it yeah.
John (32:03):
They're never too young, right.
Jen Frey (32:05):
No no.
John (32:06):
So let's revisit the willow tree.
Jen Frey (32:08):
What would you like to know, John?
John (32:10):
I think it's probably one of the easiest trees to identify
.
Right and what's the benefit ofthe willow tree?
Jen Frey (32:17):
Well, there are lots of gifts, and so this is part of
the whole point of this work isthat the more we work with the
plant, the more they revealthemselves, and they always
reveal what we most need at thattime.
So, again, willow is the onethat introduced me to this
concept of romancing plants.
I mean, they didn't use theterm at the time, but it opened
(32:39):
me up to this possibility.
And after my brother died,willow was one of the first
plants that really helped me toget out of what I call the abyss
of grief.
So when he died, I reallydidn't know if I wanted to stay
in this world.
I mean, I had two kids and Iwould never have thought of
leaving them anytime before norafter, but at that point in time
(32:59):
I was just like I don't think Ican survive this world without
him.
And so I went into this verydeep, dark abyss of grief, and
willow was one of the firstplants to show up, and so we had
a willow on our.
I was living on a farm that wehad a willow that I would go and
spend time with every day andwould just wrap weeping willow
(33:22):
would wrap their branches aroundme and just really hold me and
willow told me just to give overthe grief and that willow could
take this and hold it andtransmute it and if I ever want
it back, I can get it back.
But there's more.
So it was like grief at thatpoint was too much for me to
handle.
I couldn't function, I couldn'tbreathe, and so it just helped
(33:44):
to lighten the load a little bitso I could start to function in
the world.
When we look at the herbalimpacts of willow, it contains
salicylic acid, which is a majorpain-reducing element, and so
it only makes sense that thewhole spirit of Willow helps
(34:05):
reduce our pain.
So when we talk about grief andgrief, I would say, is probably
the biggest component of pain,but anytime that we need some
help, willow is able to hold itfor us, and I work with Willow.
I'm not sure if I put this inthe book or not.
I work with Willow in adifferent way as well, and so I
share this, because I know youwork with shamanism too, and
(34:27):
it's that sometimes we want tobe invisible in this world, and
so we need that invisibility.
Willow helps us to know whenit's time.
Sometimes we just need to dosome work and not leave like an
energetic trail or maybe we want.
This isn't when I would workwith willow, but I know some
people.
When they who live in citiesand want to communicate with
(34:48):
plants and they don't feel safedoing it out there, you can call
on willow to surround you andprotect you and just let other
people pass you by.
So that's another great giftfrom willow.
John (35:27):
When you're speaking of willow and holding your grief in
our grief circles, that weteach or not teach, that we hold
our grief as we speak andwitness the grief and the pain
that we carry, and just the wayyou were speaking of it, well,
it just sounded like she'sforming a container as well as
holding you.
Yeah.
Jen Frey (35:41):
Yeah, and so I just want to speak to that a little
bit.
John, is that so often, whenwe're in that grieving process
because we just lost someonethat we love dearly and that's
the form of grief I'm talkingabout Like there's this other
grief of like the planetarystuff happening right, there's
thoughts or the loss of habitator whatever that.
There's all of that.
But particularly losingsomebody, often we want to hold
(36:03):
on to our grief because we feellike that's the last thing that
we have of them.
And so that goes back toearlier when you said about some
people.
Don't want to let it, don'twant to move beyond.
They stay in the grief andalways want to be the mourning,
the mourning person whether Iwas going to say widow, but it
could be the mourning parent,whoever but that's the
definition that we come forourselves, because we don't want
(36:23):
to hold it or we don't want tolet go.
We're afraid if we do we'lllose any other connection with
that person.
And it's absolutely not true.
And I think the most importantthing is, when we're ready to
process through and let go, whatwe discover is we have a
completely differentrelationship with that person
(36:44):
and we can continue to haverelationships with them, but
more than anything, we freeourselves to to find who we
truly are as well.
So that's one of the thingswillow helps us to do is, if
we're really wanting to hold onto that pain, willow invites us
to be like here, you can let itgo a little bit, and it's a and
(37:05):
there's also sometimes there's alittle bit of shame in that,
like I shouldn't enjoy life, Ishouldn't be happy.
But that's absolutely not true.
Like life is a mixed bag wherewe can feel all of these
emotions at the same time and,most importantly, we are meant
to be happy and joyous wheneverwe can.
And that's what our loved oneswould want us to be anyways.
And if they didn't, then theyhad serious issues.
(37:27):
But if we're mourning them, ifwe're really grieving them, then
I'm guessing they would want usto be happy and healthy
individuals.
John (37:33):
And that kind of brings us to our next chapter in your
book, where you speak of thepower of love.
Of course, rose is the plantthat you choose for embracing
grief and the power of love.
In this chapter you define love.
Jen Frey (37:48):
Yeah, you're going to challenge me here because I can
never remember the exact words,but it comes from N Scott Peck
and it's his definition, andit's that love is the will to.
Oh gosh, john, you might haveto read it for me, but basically
, what it is that we want whenwe're experiencing love for
another person, it's that we arewanting them to grow and to be
(38:13):
who they can be, and we want thesame for ourselves.
It's like we're nourishing eachother's soul.
Growth Close enough.
John (38:21):
I couldn't find the exact one.
Jen Frey (38:22):
That's okay, I'll put it in the show notes.
John (38:27):
So how does Rose work its magic?
Jen Frey (38:31):
So first of all, again I said the heart's everything
right and I work with love, andlove is the guiding force for my
life.
It was before my brother died,but even more so after he died.
I just started working evenmore with love.
But what I discovered with someof my clients was that
sometimes they had a hard timereceiving love, and I don't just
(38:52):
mean like in a relationship, Imean transmitting the energy of
love to them to help healwhatever's going on.
They couldn't, it was too much,and we know that we all not we
all, but most of us have sometraumas around love or have some
beliefs around love or whetherwe are lovable, and so Rose
helps to do the same thing.
(39:12):
While overriding all of thosebeliefs, rose comes in a form
that is much easier for ourbodies to digest and just opens
us up to that possibility.
It really helps our heart.
Of course, rose is notoriousfor helping hearts, transmitting
the energy of the heart.
(39:33):
Rose also helps us to soften,and the softening is another
form of strength which iscounter to what our culture
normally considers strength.
We normally think of strengthas being really rigid and and
big muscles like.
Then I had that club, like we'regonna club you over the head
(39:54):
because I'm so strong and whatwe anybody who has done any work
, working with compassion orforgive how hard that actually
is it's way harder to becompassionate and or engage in
forgiveness remain in your heartthan it is to overpower
somebody, and so that's wherethe softness is.
And then, when it comes togrief, well, I had been working,
(40:17):
so I said willow helped me comeout of the abyss.
There were a number of othertrees that I was working with at
the time and I had been workingwith rose.
But then I was at an herbalconference and it was my first
big gathering since my brotherhad died and Robin Rose Bennett
was there and I was expressingmy grief and she put her arms
(40:38):
around me and she said rose inall ways all day.
And so that just gave mepermission to go even further
with rose, and I did rose in allways.
I took rose glycerin, I maderose tea, I had rose truffles, I
put rose lotion, rose hydrosol,rose flower essence.
Of course, spending time withrose, all the things.
(41:01):
And so rose just helps usremember that we are love and we
are love and helps to heal ourheart and in that healing also
helps us to, particularly whenit comes to grief, really helps
find the beauty of that griefand the beauty of the
relationships that we aregrieving.
John (41:20):
Can you take us to your self-love ritual?
Jen Frey (41:23):
Yes, that one I can definitely tell you about.
So I offered this.
This is a thing that came to mefrom Rose, actually after my
divorce or when it was prior,that, when we were in the
separation that I really tippeda heart that I don't love myself
.
No one else can love me, and Iknow there's all kinds of issues
(41:43):
around that quote.
But I also feel that there'ssome truth in that, and it's not
that we can't experience love,but since we're all connected,
we can't fully experiencebecause we're not allowing
ourself to take in the lovethat's expressed towards us.
So I really took it to heartand in that time.
So I really took it to heart,and in that time Rose showed me
(42:04):
this self-love ritual and Ishare it as a guide.
It's not dogmatic, but whathelps me was I got a candle that
was rose-scented and I willlight it.
And well, when I create sacredspace first and then I light it
and I say some form of a prayer,as in lighting it, often to the
(42:25):
tune of I'm lighting thiscandle in honor of love for
myself, and then several thingshappen, numerous things can
happen.
So once the candle's lit, thenI can engage in an activity that
makes me feel loved.
So it could be taking a bath,it could be sitting down and
reading a book, it could bemeditating.
It could be taking a bath, itcould be sitting down and
reading a book, it could bemeditating.
(42:47):
It could be eating chocolate,any like it could be the
unlimited things there.
And part of this is alsodiscovering how, what makes us
feel loved.
And the other thing that Isuggest people do, and I did, is
so often our culture teaches usto not love our bodies, and so
(43:07):
we spend time in front of themirror.
And before you get to themirror, you might want to start
with an aspect of your body thatyou like.
So eyes are often a good one.
Hands, some aspect that you canappreciate at least.
And again, we're engaging inself-love, so we're just bathing
this aspect of ourself in loveand remembering all the ways in
(43:29):
which they help us and bringsuch beauty to our life.
So it's our eyes.
It's like all the differentamazing colors we can see and
the faces of our children or ourgrandchildren or our loved ones
, or like all that we get toexperience with our eyes or with
our hands.
Like all that we get toexperience with our eyes or with
our hands, like all that we getto experience with our hands,
and so this is usually a longprocess of like many times, but
(43:52):
we eventually want to broadenthat so like from our hands
maybe up our arms to our elbowsand just really loving them,
until we can get to the pointwhere we can love our entire
bodies scars, cellulite, all ofit and we see the beauty and
we're so grateful because theseincredible bodies despite what
our culture wants us to believe,they are the only reason why we
(44:16):
get to experience all thebeauty in the world.
Right, and this is onlytemporary and no matter what
ugliness we think our bodiesmight emit or have, it's really
nothing, it's really just allperception and that can all get
shifted.
And once we can really love ourbodies, then we're just free.
(44:38):
It frees us up from so muchstuff and again, the more we can
love ourselves, the more lovewe can experience and the more
love we can share with otherbeings.
John (44:48):
We are just about out of time.
Can you speak about chapter 13,?
Living to Die?
You spoke about poison hemlock.
What's your thoughts?
Jen Frey (44:56):
So I work with poison hemlock.
I'm laughing, because this is ahighly poisonous plant and most
people are so scared of thisplant and I see so much rhetoric
about like basically, if yousee this plant, you gotta
destroy her.
But like how you're gonnadestroy key are you?
They don't really tell you.
Anyway.
For me, poison headlock came tomy life in such a strange way
(45:19):
and now we're the sanctuary thatI live in.
There's poison headlock allover, and poison headlock
reminds me of royalty, so Irefer to her as the queen and
really reminds me to embrace whoI am and my gifts.
But the real reason why Iincluded poison hemlock in this
book is because we have such afear of death in our culture,
(45:41):
and also not just a fear ofdeath, but we look at death as a
failure culture and also notjust a fear of death, but we
look at death as a failure.
All we're supposed to do is tryto be as young and alive as we
possibly can, and that's notreally the point of life.
The point of life is to learnlessons and to heal and to grow
as individuals, as souls, ascommunities, and so Poison
Hemlock helps us to overcomethat fear of death and to and in
(46:04):
that process, really embracelife.
So I'm going to give my caveatthat I gave in the book.
So when I talk about poisonhemlock sharing this lesson, I
am talking about the plantspirit of poison hemlock or the
flower essence of poison hemlock, not ingesting poison hemlock
in any way because she is deadly.
(46:25):
So, not recommended to do that.
John (46:28):
And in the spirit form, right.
Let's talk about that as howsomebody may experience Hemlock
in relationship to dying.
Jen Frey (46:39):
Yeah, so with poison Hemlock in the spirit.
So when we're talking aboutplant spirits, when we're
communicating with them, that'swho we are communicating with,
it's a plant spirit.
So when we take a tincture,we're ingesting physical aspects
of a plant and that's only onepart.
And we can depending on how thetincture is made and depending
on our relationship with theplant we can also engage with
(47:02):
the plant spirit at that level,but often that doesn't happen
engage with the plant spirit atthat level, but often that
doesn't happen.
So when we have this directcommunication, this encompasses
all of the aspects of the plant.
So when we work with the plantspirit of Poison Hemlock, they
just show us that death ismerely a transition.
There's nothing to befrightened about it.
(47:24):
It's not an ending and, yeah,it's just another opportunity of
growing and healing.
John (47:31):
Well, you've gone above and beyond, jen.
Thank you so much for all yourwisdom today.
I am just as tickled as I wasjust before, thinking that
you're going to be on the show.
So thank you so much for beinghere and you're bringing your
energy into this conversation,and it was just as effective as
it was from Ro.
(47:51):
Did you want to talk a littlebit about?
Is it this way?
Jen Frey (47:56):
Yeah, sure.
So first, thanks, Thank you,john.
I was glad to have aconversation with you.
I'm always glad to talk aboutplants but, yes, also glad to
continue the relationship.
So, bridget's Way, that is mycompany.
And it came about because when Ifirst started opening up
actually it was the herbalpractice the goddess Bridget was
really big in my life and sheis the Celtic goddess of healing
(48:19):
, among many other aspects, andso just felt right, and so in
that I always see my work asbeing a continuation of being in
honor of her, helping to createa world that's safe and loving,
and that's what I try to do onmy work.
So I do have other classes,course plan, communication
(48:42):
classes and I have, as I said,an apprenticeship program where
we work with the plants.
In the first year it's mostlyplant spirits.
In the second year we work withother aspects of nature for our
own healing and also forworking with helping others,
including the land.
And I have other classes forco-creating with nature.
And, yeah, there's lots ofinformation.
(49:02):
I have a website, bridget'sWaycom.
You can check that out as well.
Yeah,
Where I'd like to go is to your first experiences with
your grandparents.
In your book, you spoke of thisunique experience, that they
introduced you to this path,that you're on.
Jen Frey (00:18):
My grandparents were just amazing, loving, wonderful
people to be with, and I wasblessed to spend lots of time
with them, and my lastgrandmother just died a few
months ago.
I also just turned 48.
So to have grandparents in yourlife that long is such a gift.
But so, yes, I don't have amemory of plants not being
(00:41):
important in my life.
My mom is incredible at keepinghouseplants alive.
Don't ask her to garden, shedoesn't like to garden, but
houseplants yes.
So I always send my houseplantsto her when they need a little
bit more attention.
But my grandparents both ofthem, both sets of them grew
their own food, and so theytaught me from an early age that
(01:01):
the best medicine comes fromyour backyard.
And my maternal grandfather?
He was 100% into organicgardening.
He was a lifetime subscriber toOrganic Gardening Magazine, but
he was following thosepractices before that even
became a big deal, and RodaleInstitute started right where I
(01:21):
grew up or near where I grew up.
So it was very much in hisawareness and so he taught me
that you have to sing to theplants.
His greenhouse always had musicplaying for them.
We asked permission beforeharvesting.
He never quite said aboutcommunicating with the plants.
(01:42):
Later in life, my grandfatherhad dementia, and so while he
was still with it, he made sureto give me all of his gardening
books, and one of them was theSecret Life of Plants by Peter
Tompkins and Christopher Bird,which is all about the
intelligence of plants.
Unfortunately, I didn't readthat until my grandfather was
(02:03):
too far gone, because by thetime I read it I was like, oh, I
didn't read that until mygrandfather was too far gone,
because by the time I read it Iwas like, oh, I think he did
communicate, but he just didn'thave anyone to talk to about it.
So that was a great sadness inmy life.
But, yes, my grandparents werepivotal in my experience
connecting with plants andunderstanding that plants are
just incredible conscious beings.
(02:24):
Though they never used thatword, treated them like, like
they were conscious beings didyou have any idea of the path
that they were leading you on?
like that at the time oh my gosh, no, um, that would be
wonderful.
And I think sometimes peoplelike sometimes when people hear
(02:45):
my story or other teachers'stories, you forget that there's
like all these curves and upsand downs, like we don't really
know.
Until fourth grade and in thestrangest way, we got these
weekly readers and there was oneabout a shaman, and when they
(03:09):
were describing what they did Iwas like, oh, this is the
healing that I have been wantingto do.
But in that article it said youhad to be male and indigenous.
So I wasn't, obviously I'm notthat.
So I scratched that off thelist.
But then I tried, like allthese different ways of like,
okay, well, how can I meet thisdream?
And so I started with herbs bybetween fifth and sixth grade
(03:34):
Time, like, really saved me fromhaving to take antibiotics.
So that was my introduction toherbs and I dove in more.
And then junior high, I startedwith flower essences and
homeopathy.
So I started all theseroundabout ways, and one of my
newer revelations that I hadn'tthought about in a long time was
I had wanted to be acardiologist when I was late
(03:58):
junior high, and it's because Ireally thought the heart was
just so important and I wantedto help people have healthy
hearts and in high school Ishadowed a cardiologist who was
a woman and she told me look, ifyou want to have family, if you
want to have kids, this is notthe right profession to be in.
So I scratched that too.
(04:19):
But now, coming full circle,when I had this realization, I
was like, oh my gosh, the heartis the center of all of the work
that I do.
So here I am and my program.
I have an apprenticeship Icalled Heart Transformation,
because it's all about the heart.
So it's the same thing.
So the path has always beenthere.
But no, I did not know where Iwas going.
(04:40):
My grandparents definitelydidn't know where I was going
and they would be shocked.
John (04:44):
know where I was going, my grandparents definitely didn't
know where I was going and theywould be shocked.
Actually, when did the idea ofkey and kin come into this?
Did this come from yourgrandfather?
Jen Frey (04:53):
No, this came from Robin Wall Kimmerer, so I think
I'm not sure that came out ofbraiding sweetgrass.
Yeah.
So I'm not sure.
I have to go back and look atdates.
I'm not sure what was first.
She wrote Braiding Sweetgrassand she talked about it there.
But she also wrote an articlefor yes Magazine called Nature
(05:13):
Needs a New Pronoun, and sowherever I heard it first,
that's what started it, but itis that nature needs a new
pronoun.
I give that to all of mystudents in all of my classes
and encourage the use of ki isthe singular non-gendered
pronoun for animated pronouns.
(05:34):
So rather than using it, andthen ch'in is plural.
So yeah, it comes from Robin.
John (05:40):
It's a wonderful way to relate to the plant life.
It really personalizes them,doesn't it?
Jen Frey (05:47):
It makes you feel that it's not an object, but it's
somebody who's just visiting forthe summer now, when I read
people who are in this work,working with plant spirits or
herbs or whatever and I'mreading their stuff and they use
(06:13):
it it's like it jostles me, ithits me in the heart and I'm
like have to read.
And so I've realized that usingthese pronouns, we don't think
about how important language is,but it's so important and so
using those pronouns have reallyshifted my brain, even though
long before that I thoughtplants were alive and I would
always ask their permission andhave conversations with them as
if they were intelligent beings,because they are.
The pronouns themselves changedthat relationship as well.
John (06:36):
It brings respect into the light when dealing with plants
in many ways.
That's what I found using it.
It just was a higher level ofother than just being tender
with them but referring to themin this ways.
That's what I found using it.
It just was a higher level ofother than just being tender
with them but referring to themin this way.
What was life like just beforeyou met Pam?
For you, how far along yourpath were you and how big of an
(06:56):
influence, if any, was PamMontgomery?
Jen Frey (07:00):
So life was well.
There's a few things to answerhere.
Life was chaotic and awful.
My life was chaotic and awful.
Do you want to think about that?
To be a flower essencepractitioner.
(07:21):
So I started with herbs.
I started with a small herbpractice, but I always herbs.
I feel like it's a foreignlanguage to me.
So I just always have tostruggle with them and everybody
was on medication and I didn'tknow how that was interacting in
their body, let alone to throwan herb in there.
So when I finally studied withDavid and Kate and they were
(07:41):
together, I was studying withthem together it was just like
this huge light bulb went off.
It's like, oh, this is what I'mmeant to be doing.
It's like I understand this, Idon't have to work at it, they
just blow through me.
It makes sense.
So I already had my practice.
I had been teaching clientcommunication for many years
before I met with Pam.
So when I got to meet Pam, whenI got to study with her, it was
(08:08):
really a deepening in of what Ialready knew and a confirmation
of what I knew, and that'sgoing to go back to this chaotic
time.
So what was going on in my lifeis I was really living in two
worlds.
I was in a very toxic marriagewith a narcissist, and I didn't
know what a narcissist was atthe time, so I had no
understanding of what was goingon.
It wasn't until many years oftherapy afterwards that I
(08:30):
finally got to like say oh, sothat wasn't actually healthy.
So I had been mostly astay-at-home mom and when my
kids and I homeschooled my kidsand but then when they started
going to school, I had all thistime to just be with the plants
and I would have theseincredible experiences that I
(08:50):
didn't hear from any otherteachers and I would want to
share them with my then husbandand he thought I was lying and
making it all up, so he didn'tcare if that's how I spent my
time during the day, but when hewas around I wasn't allowed to
discuss it and we had to go.
He was a financial advisor, sowe had to go really deep into
the superficial aspects of ourculture and so I was split.
(09:18):
It just became really obviousthat I could no longer if I was
going to continue down this way.
I couldn't be in that marriage.
And there was another big,important catalyst in my life
that actually led me to studywith Pam, and that's that my
brother died suddenly in 2011 atthe age of 36.
And so I was deep in grief whenI went to meet Pam as well.
(09:41):
So my world was alreadyshifting and it was already
becoming obvious I couldn't goback to where I was before as
well.
So my world was alreadyshifting and it was already
becoming obvious I couldn't goback to where I was before his
death.
So that's where life was notwonderful.
My time with the plants wasincredible and amazing, and then
once I made the decision toleave that's when we make those
decisions that everybody thinksthe leaving is the hard part,
(10:02):
but it's really the part leadingup to the leaving that's the
real part Once you make thatchoice, everything flows and you
get rewarded Not reward, Idon't like that word but life
becomes more wonderful.
But you're not losing all thatenergy that it's taking for you
just to try to survive andmaintain, just try to stay as
(10:24):
healthy as you can in a reallyunhealthy situation.
So when you get all that energyback, it's like, oh, now I can
like really do follow my heartand really do what feeds me.
John (10:35):
Jen, can you talk a little bit about the basic forms of
plant communication and how doyou know?
Or, for the listeners, howwould they know that what
they're experiencing is real?
Jen Frey (10:47):
Yeah.
So, like I said earlier, my workis all based around the heart,
and the heart is really thecenter.
And that's one of the big thingsin our culture is that we tend
to put everything into the brainand logic and reason, and
communicating with naturedoesn't necessarily fit there
because it's beyond anythingthat we can even imagine.
(11:08):
So we have to start by gettinginto our heart.
So that's the basis foranything and everything, and
it's still the basis for me.
I mean, like they have tocommunicate with me, not
necessarily all the time, butsometimes, like we were just at
a special, we were on vacationat this really special place and
I'm just trying to relax andI'm getting messages for them.
So that doesn't happen all thetime, but if I want to
(11:29):
communicate with the plants, Istill have to start by getting
into my heart.
There's so many ways to do that.
The easiest way that I find,and the way that I most teach,
is to work with gratitude andhow we know that we're in our
heart space is because there's aphysiological shift in our
bodies.
Our breathing tends to slow Forme, my shoulders will drop,
(11:52):
sometimes inches.
Our bodies relax, our heartrate slows, we just we feel
crawler Sometimes.
We'll feel, sometimes my handswill feel big or my feet feel
weird, like we might havedifferent body sensations.
So when we're in that space,then we know that we are more
able to receive information.
(12:14):
So first step, if you want tocommunicate with the plant, is
to look for a plant that wantsto communicate with you, like
who's showing up in your life,because we just think that
nobody wants to communicate withyou, like who's showing up in
your life, because we just thinkthat nobody wants to
communicate with us.
But once people start to learnthis, then they often get
overwhelmed because all of theplants want to communicate with
them at the same time.
(12:34):
So go ahead.
John (12:37):
Sorry, I was just going to say that I had always learned
that just look around your house, because the ones that you need
most will be growing aroundyour house.
Jen Frey (12:46):
It might be weed.
John (12:47):
No, not weed.
I mean any kind of plant, RightFrom a mullein to a wild
cabbage.
Whatever it might be that youneed to relate to, or that
medicine, that's a good place tostart.
Jen Frey (12:59):
Absolutely, and that's one of the reasons why.
So I always taught plantcommunication in person and I
prefer to teach in person, but Istarted doing them virtually
during COVID just because we hadto.
And it became such anincredible experience because
people were communicating withthe plants that are right there
that they've had relationshipswith Some they've known they've
(13:19):
had the relationships and othersthey didn't, but it made it so
much more personal for them.
So I love that.
I think it is important to workwith the plants that are right
there.
Often we think we have to go toexotic places or really rare
plants, but it's the ones thatshow up for us every day that
have the most impact on ourlives.
John (13:40):
Now just go over again that our little Zoom workshop
with you, where we had to gooutside and do the same, find a
plant that wants to communicatewith you, and I can't remember.
How did you know the name ofthe plant that I was working
with?
Jen Frey (13:57):
Oh, because I knew the plant Well.
I can't remember if you sent me.
I think you sent a picture, butI'm not sure.
John (14:05):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I sent you a picture, that's right, that's
right.
But you somehow thecharacteristics of what we're
finding out you also knew about,and I was just surprised by the
whole experience of, becausethere's a number of ones that I
was drawn to but they justdidn't feel right.
I said no, thank you, and thenas soon as I found this garlic
(14:30):
mustard plant that was besidethe house, down a little dingy
laneway, it just spoke volumes,but it was a beautiful
experience.
Now I wanted to explore someideas in your Chapter 10.
And where I want to direct theconversation is around grief and
(14:52):
the exploration of how plants,plant communication, plant
medicine can be a great servicefor those who are grieving
deeply and just to have thatkind of extra support is,
they'll find, quite profound.
So in Chapter 10, you'representing the Black-Eyed Susan
plant, and what I liked aboutthe title that you picked was
(15:15):
Changing Our Story and why thisRelates.
It seemed to me that you weretalking about people who are
having difficulty formingattachments, and I was reading
for me between the lines thatthey had experienced some kind
of grief or trauma.
Would you be able to speakabout that?
Jen Frey (15:31):
So of course you bring up that chapter, and I say of
course because, as I say veryhonestly in the book, that's the
chapter that I had the hardesttime with.
I must have rewritten it atleast 30 times and I'm still not
completely happy with what cameout, but the plants have
continued to work with me andthat is growing a lot more.
So I said that's the one that Ihad the hardest time writing.
(15:54):
But also I was shocked that theplants wanted Black-Eyed Susan
in the book, because I thoughtwe were talking mostly about
light, and there are otherplants that I work with.
I only work with Black-eyedSusan in small instances, but
since the book has come out andtalking with so many people,
that is the it's amazing howBlack-eyed Susan has continued
to come up.
(16:15):
So this is a huge subject andI'll just say that I'm used to
hearing people's trauma storiesand I'm actually really like I
read all kinds of books abouttrauma, because I'm fascinated
by how we respond to trauma andhow we are.
Our bodies, our brains.
All of it are so incredible.
Now, we're so adaptable waymore adaptable than what we
(16:35):
realize and so we have all thesemechanisms for trying to
survive through our trauma, tosurvive through our trauma.
And what the plants say, whatall of nature says, if we work
with them, is that we're not ourtrauma and they want to help us
to heal it so that we canremember who we really are.
And on top of that, I also justhave to say that trauma isn't in
(16:58):
of itself a bad thing, liketrauma or the processing of our
trauma can give us really biggifts.
Like everything in life,there's gifts not saying that we
want to go around traumatizingpeople, so, yeah, so Black Eye
Susan, one of her gifts ishelping us to look at the
experiences that we've had inlife and see them in a different
(17:21):
way, and so that's where thegift comes out.
No-transcript.
Okay, so I'm just pausingbecause my guides are giving me
information, so I'm just goingto back up a little bit.
And if we we all have familymembers, right and if we ever
(17:42):
share, if you get, if you havethe privilege of having siblings
, and you ever talk about astory from your childhood with
your siblings, everybody's goingto have a different perspective
.
John (17:51):
Yes no-transcript.
Jen Frey (18:23):
respond to it.
And the energy that's heldwithin, like the story that we
attach to it, that's what tripsus up again and again, and so if
we can shift that, then thathelps to release the energy from
our bodies and then invites whoknows what into our lives.
John (18:41):
I see grief.
I mean, I've been a deepgriever, I would say, since
childhood, and then there was areally big one that the mother
of my kids had passed away, onethat the mother of my kids had
passed away and what I'velearned is that with grief, it's
a quintessential emotion thatreally defines the kind of
(19:03):
person that we will become.
It's like that deep soul, deepheart, energy that we need to,
whether would take it to betaken down and then just work
with that hard, hard energy, orwe just bury it and don't do
anything with it, which makesour life even smaller, with less
(19:31):
capacity for compassion andlove.
But everybody, there's been noone who's ever been on this
planet that hasn't gone throughgrief in some form right.
As they say, everything that welove, we will lose, and right up
to the very last breath that wetake is our big loss when we
leave this world.
And so I just love that ideathat this transformation, this
powerful transformation thatcomes to us is through this deep
(19:55):
emotion, and there's no otherway to get there.
I mean when we, as you wrote inyour book, love is healing, and
so that's why grief and loveare sisters, that they grief in
one hand and love in the other,and it just the more we can
carry, the bigger our embracebecomes and the greater, or the
(20:16):
larger, life.
And so what I loved about BlackEyed Susan was that for me?
it was hitting on that, that too, but perhaps more gently than
grief.
But it's, all part of it, isn'tit?
That's what I was looking forwith the wisdom of plants to
help us through these bigtransformations in our life.
Jen Frey (20:38):
Yeah, they're definitely there to help us
through.
And the part with grief thatgoes back to what I was saying
with my brother that when, again, when he died and there's grief
never manifests the same wayfor anybody, everybody and every
relationship.
When we lose, like if we'reonly talking about grief in the
(20:59):
terms of losing a loved humanbeing or maybe an animal being,
because there's so manydifferent forms of grief.
But if that's what how we lookat this, or that's the lens that
we're looking at right now,depending on our relationship,
we have different levels ofgrief.
So, like when my grandmotherjust died, I did have grief.
It shocked me actually thedepth of grief.
So, like, when my grandmotherjust died, I did have grief.
It shocked me actually thedepth of grief that I had
because we had been knowing thiswas going to happen for a long
(21:20):
time and she was 98 or 95.
So, like it was a ton, Whereasmy brother was 36 and it was
quite sudden.
It was such a shock to all ofus.
But what happened in thatmoment when my brother died is
that my whole world broke apart.
And when you lose somebodyagain, even if it's somebody
that is like going to die, whenthey're foundational in your
(21:43):
life, it has to rock yourfoundation.
John (21:46):
And.
Jen Frey (21:46):
I think this is what you're getting to.
Is that how it defines a person?
Because it rocks our foundationand it is an opportunity, if we
choose to take it and noteverybody takes it If we choose
to take it, it is an opportunityto reevaluate our life and
what's really important.
And let's just be completelyhonest in our culture, so much
(22:08):
of what we think is important isactually not important.
They're not, and it's actuallyquite harmful for us as human
beings to be like alive, awake,aware humans.
Well, greece gives us thatbrief opportunity of like who
are we?
Because we just lost.
What I'm getting right now isthat we like to think that we
(22:29):
are these separate beings, butwe're not.
We're interconnected.
So when this being leaves ourlife, we lost a part of us.
John (22:37):
Yes, very much so.
Jen Frey (22:39):
Right.
So now we have to readjust andof course that takes, sometimes
years, sometimes, like I think,the grief is always there.
I'm guessing I will always missmy brother and grieve him, but
it's definitely not like when hefirst died.
I was on the floor for daysjust in a puddle of tears,
unable to do anything, andclearly I'm not doing that
(22:59):
anymore.
And just going back to thisconnection of grief and love,
the thing that helped me to getthrough my brother's, the grief
around my brother, wasrecognizing that if I hadn't
experienced the love with himthat I had experienced, I
wouldn't have experienced thelevel of grief.
So they are intimatelyconnected and grief is the
(23:22):
ultimate expression of love.
John (23:25):
Very much, so I agree with that.
What did you say with that?
Did you want to share a littlebit about Michael and why your
love was so intense for him?
Jen Frey (23:33):
My brother Michael.
Yeah, so my brother.
John (23:36):
Michael Sounds like quite an individual the way that you
spoke of him in your book.
Jen Frey (23:41):
He was.
So first my brother Michael.
We're not biological siblings.
Our parents married when I wasfive and he was six, so we were
18 months apart.
But he came into my life when Iwas three and he was four.
So we grew up together and Idon't know, he was quite an
individual.
He was the center of my world.
He was the center of myuniverse.
Funny as could be, he wouldroll on the floor with laughter
(24:05):
and you could be so angry withhim and yet you would just have
to laugh.
So my brother tended to getaway with a lot because
everybody just laughed.
But he, going back to thistrauma, I still I have my
suspicions, but I still don'tknow what it was.
But there was some kind of atrauma in his life, I would say
(24:27):
around middle school age andmaybe even late elementary.
And so he started experimentingwith alcohol and drugs and he
became an addict and he had manyyears where he was really good
and he got his life back in line.
But then he needed somesurgeries and he was given
(24:47):
oxytocin.
So it was really like he gothooked and it was about six
weeks after he got oxytocin.
Then he died and it was sorry,not oxytocin we love Oxycontin
and it was brutal.
It was just brutal.
He had a son that was.
I've never seen a parent love achild the way my brother loved
his son, and so that's a giftfor us that we get to still see
(25:09):
his son, who looks so much likehim.
And and yeah, I don't know, Idon't know, nobody ever asked me
to talk about him, so I don'tquite know what to say.
John (25:18):
Well, thank you for sharing that part, because it
really did touch me in the bookand for me it really set up the
following chapters and gave abeautiful foundation for what
you would write about in furtherchapters.
So in moving on you talk aboutreleasing grief and romancing
(25:41):
plants.
I can't say that I've everheard it put that way before,
but I understand.
Will you touch on that first?
Jen Frey (25:49):
Sure, the romancing plants part.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
So this is something that theplant showed me.
I have this ash tree that Iabsolutely fell in love with
when I was doing my training ofthe Pan-McDumrey place and as I
was doing this, oh, actually I'msorry I'm getting ahead of
myself.
That's why you're ahead.
So just the one who gave me thename Romancing the Plants.
(26:11):
But my first experience wasactually with willow, and this
was many years before nameromance in the plants.
But my first experience wasactually with willow, and this
was many years before.
And, um, and I was in a classoh, actually, with starhawk and
was at our local college in themiddle of the suburbs and they
had like a little garden outsideand we were I don't quite know
what the exercise was anymore,but I know we were supposed to
(26:31):
connect with the plant and so Iand we our eyes were supposed to
be closed.
So I connected with thisbeautiful old willow tree there
and all of a sudden I had anorgasm, just standing there
connecting with this tree,surrounded by people, eyes
closed, completely closed, likenot attempting any of this, and
(26:55):
it shocked me and I was likewhat is happening?
And now, since then I've donelots of work, and so now I
understand what was happening.
What we even call orgasm issimply energy moving through us
drifting through us.
So that's what I was feeling.
But that was such an unknownexperience to me.
One of the things that Ilearned from Pam that she had a
(27:17):
similar experience that was like, oh okay, so I'm not crazy,
this is a thing.
But again, afterwards I startedworking with the plants more
and realized it's possible.
So from that I started workingwith plants as well.
I'm going to use this term, buta lover and I don't mean like I
like honestly, I don't go outto have orgasms with plants.
(27:40):
It's not something that I needto do, that I want to do, but
it's really just recognizingthat plants are other beings who
I can love and I can experiencelove with, because I get lots
like with.
When I with plants, you justget so much unconditional love.
John (27:57):
Yes, and you feel it.
It's a very physical response.
Jen Frey (28:00):
Right, and so they gave me this practice called
romancing the plants, andthere's really no I say practice
, but there's really no practiceBecause really, just looking at
them as if a lover, touch themas if they're your lover, speak
to them as if they're your lover, write them love poems, how do
(28:21):
you engage with a plant and feelthat energy?
And I continue to share itbecause what I've noticed is,
unfortunately, there are so manypeople that have been so
traumatized in theirrelationships with other humans
that they don't feel safe inromantic situations, or
sometimes even just in theperiphery of humans, and so when
they're engaging in romancingthe plants, it allows them to
have that experience of love andsafe relating with another
(28:48):
being.
And also in my classes, one ofthe times that I taught this,
everybody was like I don't knowhow to romance somebody, like I
don't know what that means, soit was like, oh, okay, well, so
the plants also help us to learnthat.
Help us to learn how we want tobe greeted, what makes us feel
loved and how do we show that toanother person or another being
(29:10):
, and so it has profound healingimplications, as well as
another way to receiveinformation and guidance from
the prayer.
John (29:20):
Can you share the exercise Romancing your Plant Ally you
included in the chapter.
Jen Frey (29:25):
Yeah.
So what I encourage people todo, like I said, is to write a
love poem.
So you want to?
Again, we always start from theheart.
So you want to get in with yourheart, connect with your a love
pole, just as if they weresomebody you're courting.
So that's part of this wholework with plants is that our
(29:48):
society is so used to.
I don't like pam talks aboutseduction and I don't even want
to say it's seduction.
It's almost like um kidnapping,like one of the images that's
getting is like hitting peopleover the top of the head.
And we're very non-consensualas a society and even when it
comes to selling things, we wantto force you to buy this,
whether you want it or not.
(30:08):
And the plants?
That's not how nature works.
Everything's based on consentand it has to be beneficial to
all beings involved, and soworking with the plants in this
way, it's learning how to court,learning how to like, really
recognize what makes them feelloved, what do they need, as
well as like, then translatingit to another being so we work
(30:31):
with.
It's a long way of saying wewrite a poem.
John (30:34):
Is the poem the kickstarter for having people
then go out with an open heartand find a plant to communicate
love to.
Jen Frey (30:44):
So it's more the other way around.
It's more like the poem is well, it's not really the
culmination we want.
Generally we're doing we have arelationship with the plant
before we get to the poem.
So that's why I don't startwith that exercise because, just
like anybody, if we take itback to human relations, we
don't know when we go out on afirst date with somebody we're
(31:05):
not going to want to like.
We don't know everything thatthey need or that they want or
they love.
We don't want to open up ourhearts real far Not with plants.
It's safe.
You can open your hearts as faras you want the first time, but
there's a getting to know.
And so the more we work withplants or any aspect of nature,
the more we work with them, themore they reveal themselves and
(31:26):
then the easier it is for us toexpress our love to them.
John (31:29):
Yeah, I liked how you approached the plant and it was
like when touching it.
It's like a soft stroking,what's the word?
I'm not expressing this right.
Jen Frey (31:38):
Caressing.
John (31:39):
Caressing with the palm and then maybe the back of your
fingers, right, and I've beendoing that for a long time, and
now that my granddaughters aregetting a little older, I even
taught one of the girls that'stwo years old how to approach a
plant and do the same thing Justto caress with your soft hand
and then the back of your hand.
So she was doing that with hermother later on.
Jen Frey (32:02):
I love it yeah.
John (32:03):
They're never too young, right.
Jen Frey (32:05):
No no.
John (32:06):
So let's revisit the willow tree.
Jen Frey (32:08):
What would you like to know, John?
John (32:10):
I think it's probably one of the easiest trees to identify
.
Right and what's the benefit ofthe willow tree?
Jen Frey (32:17):
Well, there are lots of gifts, and so this is part of
the whole point of this work isthat the more we work with the
plant, the more they revealthemselves, and they always
reveal what we most need at thattime.
So, again, willow is the onethat introduced me to this
concept of romancing plants.
I mean, they didn't use theterm at the time, but it opened
(32:39):
me up to this possibility.
And after my brother died,willow was one of the first
plants that really helped me toget out of what I call the abyss
of grief.
So when he died, I reallydidn't know if I wanted to stay
in this world.
I mean, I had two kids and Iwould never have thought of
leaving them anytime before norafter, but at that point in time
(32:59):
I was just like I don't think Ican survive this world without
him.
And so I went into this verydeep, dark abyss of grief, and
willow was one of the firstplants to show up, and so we had
a willow on our.
I was living on a farm that wehad a willow that I would go and
spend time with every day andwould just wrap weeping willow
(33:22):
would wrap their branches aroundme and just really hold me and
willow told me just to give overthe grief and that willow could
take this and hold it andtransmute it and if I ever want
it back, I can get it back.
But there's more.
So it was like grief at thatpoint was too much for me to
handle.
I couldn't function, I couldn'tbreathe, and so it just helped
(33:44):
to lighten the load a little bitso I could start to function in
the world.
When we look at the herbalimpacts of willow, it contains
salicylic acid, which is a majorpain-reducing element, and so
it only makes sense that thewhole spirit of Willow helps
(34:05):
reduce our pain.
So when we talk about grief andgrief, I would say, is probably
the biggest component of pain,but anytime that we need some
help, willow is able to hold itfor us, and I work with Willow.
I'm not sure if I put this inthe book or not.
I work with Willow in adifferent way as well, and so I
share this, because I know youwork with shamanism too, and
(34:27):
it's that sometimes we want tobe invisible in this world, and
so we need that invisibility.
Willow helps us to know whenit's time.
Sometimes we just need to dosome work and not leave like an
energetic trail or maybe we want.
This isn't when I would workwith willow, but I know some
people.
When they who live in citiesand want to communicate with
(34:48):
plants and they don't feel safedoing it out there, you can call
on willow to surround you andprotect you and just let other
people pass you by.
So that's another great giftfrom willow.
John (35:27):
When you're speaking of willow and holding your grief in
our grief circles, that weteach or not teach, that we hold
our grief as we speak andwitness the grief and the pain
that we carry, and just the wayyou were speaking of it, well,
it just sounded like she'sforming a container as well as
holding you.
Yeah.
Jen Frey (35:41):
Yeah, and so I just want to speak to that a little
bit.
John, is that so often, whenwe're in that grieving process
because we just lost someonethat we love dearly and that's
the form of grief I'm talkingabout Like there's this other
grief of like the planetarystuff happening right, there's
thoughts or the loss of habitator whatever that.
There's all of that.
But particularly losingsomebody, often we want to hold
(36:03):
on to our grief because we feellike that's the last thing that
we have of them.
And so that goes back toearlier when you said about some
people.
Don't want to let it, don'twant to move beyond.
They stay in the grief andalways want to be the mourning,
the mourning person whether Iwas going to say widow, but it
could be the mourning parent,whoever but that's the
definition that we come forourselves, because we don't want
(36:23):
to hold it or we don't want tolet go.
We're afraid if we do we'lllose any other connection with
that person.
And it's absolutely not true.
And I think the most importantthing is, when we're ready to
process through and let go, whatwe discover is we have a
completely differentrelationship with that person
(36:44):
and we can continue to haverelationships with them, but
more than anything, we freeourselves to to find who we
truly are as well.
So that's one of the thingswillow helps us to do is, if
we're really wanting to hold onto that pain, willow invites us
to be like here, you can let itgo a little bit, and it's a and
(37:05):
there's also sometimes there's alittle bit of shame in that,
like I shouldn't enjoy life, Ishouldn't be happy.
But that's absolutely not true.
Like life is a mixed bag wherewe can feel all of these
emotions at the same time and,most importantly, we are meant
to be happy and joyous wheneverwe can.
And that's what our loved oneswould want us to be anyways.
And if they didn't, then theyhad serious issues.
(37:27):
But if we're mourning them, ifwe're really grieving them, then
I'm guessing they would want usto be happy and healthy
individuals.
John (37:33):
And that kind of brings us to our next chapter in your
book, where you speak of thepower of love.
Of course, rose is the plantthat you choose for embracing
grief and the power of love.
In this chapter you define love.
Jen Frey (37:48):
Yeah, you're going to challenge me here because I can
never remember the exact words,but it comes from N Scott Peck
and it's his definition, andit's that love is the will to.
Oh gosh, john, you might haveto read it for me, but basically
, what it is that we want whenwe're experiencing love for
another person, it's that we arewanting them to grow and to be
(38:13):
who they can be, and we want thesame for ourselves.
It's like we're nourishing eachother's soul.
Growth Close enough.
John (38:21):
I couldn't find the exact one.
Jen Frey (38:22):
That's okay, I'll put it in the show notes.
John (38:27):
So how does Rose work its magic?
Jen Frey (38:31):
So first of all, again I said the heart's everything
right and I work with love, andlove is the guiding force for my
life.
It was before my brother died,but even more so after he died.
I just started working evenmore with love.
But what I discovered with someof my clients was that
sometimes they had a hard timereceiving love, and I don't just
(38:52):
mean like in a relationship, Imean transmitting the energy of
love to them to help healwhatever's going on.
They couldn't, it was too much,and we know that we all not we
all, but most of us have sometraumas around love or have some
beliefs around love or whetherwe are lovable, and so Rose
helps to do the same thing.
(39:12):
While overriding all of thosebeliefs, rose comes in a form
that is much easier for ourbodies to digest and just opens
us up to that possibility.
It really helps our heart.
Of course, rose is notoriousfor helping hearts, transmitting
the energy of the heart.
(39:33):
Rose also helps us to soften,and the softening is another
form of strength which iscounter to what our culture
normally considers strength.
We normally think of strengthas being really rigid and and
big muscles like.
Then I had that club, like we'regonna club you over the head
(39:54):
because I'm so strong and whatwe anybody who has done any work
, working with compassion orforgive how hard that actually
is it's way harder to becompassionate and or engage in
forgiveness remain in your heartthan it is to overpower
somebody, and so that's wherethe softness is.
And then, when it comes togrief, well, I had been working,
(40:17):
so I said willow helped me comeout of the abyss.
There were a number of othertrees that I was working with at
the time and I had been workingwith rose.
But then I was at an herbalconference and it was my first
big gathering since my brotherhad died and Robin Rose Bennett
was there and I was expressingmy grief and she put her arms
(40:38):
around me and she said rose inall ways all day.
And so that just gave mepermission to go even further
with rose, and I did rose in allways.
I took rose glycerin, I maderose tea, I had rose truffles, I
put rose lotion, rose hydrosol,rose flower essence.
Of course, spending time withrose, all the things.
(41:01):
And so rose just helps usremember that we are love and we
are love and helps to heal ourheart and in that healing also
helps us to, particularly whenit comes to grief, really helps
find the beauty of that griefand the beauty of the
relationships that we aregrieving.
John (41:20):
Can you take us to your self-love ritual?
Jen Frey (41:23):
Yes, that one I can definitely tell you about.
So I offered this.
This is a thing that came to mefrom Rose, actually after my
divorce or when it was prior,that, when we were in the
separation that I really tippeda heart that I don't love myself
.
No one else can love me, and Iknow there's all kinds of issues
(41:43):
around that quote.
But I also feel that there'ssome truth in that, and it's not
that we can't experience love,but since we're all connected,
we can't fully experiencebecause we're not allowing
ourself to take in the lovethat's expressed towards us.
So I really took it to heartand in that time.
So I really took it to heart,and in that time Rose showed me
(42:04):
this self-love ritual and Ishare it as a guide.
It's not dogmatic, but whathelps me was I got a candle that
was rose-scented and I willlight it.
And well, when I create sacredspace first and then I light it
and I say some form of a prayer,as in lighting it, often to the
(42:25):
tune of I'm lighting thiscandle in honor of love for
myself, and then several thingshappen, numerous things can
happen.
So once the candle's lit, thenI can engage in an activity that
makes me feel loved.
So it could be taking a bath,it could be sitting down and
reading a book, it could bemeditating.
It could be taking a bath, itcould be sitting down and
reading a book, it could bemeditating.
(42:47):
It could be eating chocolate,any like it could be the
unlimited things there.
And part of this is alsodiscovering how, what makes us
feel loved.
And the other thing that Isuggest people do, and I did, is
so often our culture teaches usto not love our bodies, and so
(43:07):
we spend time in front of themirror.
And before you get to themirror, you might want to start
with an aspect of your body thatyou like.
So eyes are often a good one.
Hands, some aspect that you canappreciate at least.
And again, we're engaging inself-love, so we're just bathing
this aspect of ourself in loveand remembering all the ways in
(43:29):
which they help us and bringsuch beauty to our life.
So it's our eyes.
It's like all the differentamazing colors we can see and
the faces of our children or ourgrandchildren or our loved ones
, or like all that we get toexperience with our eyes or with
our hands.
Like all that we get toexperience with our eyes or with
our hands, like all that we getto experience with our hands,
and so this is usually a longprocess of like many times, but
(43:52):
we eventually want to broadenthat so like from our hands
maybe up our arms to our elbowsand just really loving them,
until we can get to the pointwhere we can love our entire
bodies scars, cellulite, all ofit and we see the beauty and
we're so grateful because theseincredible bodies despite what
our culture wants us to believe,they are the only reason why we
(44:16):
get to experience all thebeauty in the world.
Right, and this is onlytemporary and no matter what
ugliness we think our bodiesmight emit or have, it's really
nothing, it's really just allperception and that can all get
shifted.
And once we can really love ourbodies, then we're just free.
(44:38):
It frees us up from so muchstuff and again, the more we can
love ourselves, the more lovewe can experience and the more
love we can share with otherbeings.
John (44:48):
We are just about out of time.
Can you speak about chapter 13,?
Living to Die?
You spoke about poison hemlock.
What's your thoughts?
Jen Frey (44:56):
So I work with poison hemlock.
I'm laughing, because this is ahighly poisonous plant and most
people are so scared of thisplant and I see so much rhetoric
about like basically, if yousee this plant, you gotta
destroy her.
But like how you're gonnadestroy key are you?
They don't really tell you.
Anyway.
For me, poison headlock came tomy life in such a strange way
(45:19):
and now we're the sanctuary thatI live in.
There's poison headlock allover, and poison headlock
reminds me of royalty, so Irefer to her as the queen and
really reminds me to embrace whoI am and my gifts.
But the real reason why Iincluded poison hemlock in this
book is because we have such afear of death in our culture,
(45:41):
and also not just a fear ofdeath, but we look at death as a
failure culture and also notjust a fear of death, but we
look at death as a failure.
All we're supposed to do is tryto be as young and alive as we
possibly can, and that's notreally the point of life.
The point of life is to learnlessons and to heal and to grow
as individuals, as souls, ascommunities, and so Poison
Hemlock helps us to overcomethat fear of death and to and in
(46:04):
that process, really embracelife.
So I'm going to give my caveatthat I gave in the book.
So when I talk about poisonhemlock sharing this lesson, I
am talking about the plantspirit of poison hemlock or the
flower essence of poison hemlock, not ingesting poison hemlock
in any way because she is deadly.
(46:25):
So, not recommended to do that.
John (46:28):
And in the spirit form, right.
Let's talk about that as howsomebody may experience Hemlock
in relationship to dying.
Jen Frey (46:39):
Yeah, so with poison Hemlock in the spirit.
So when we're talking aboutplant spirits, when we're
communicating with them, that'swho we are communicating with,
it's a plant spirit.
So when we take a tincture,we're ingesting physical aspects
of a plant and that's only onepart.
And we can depending on how thetincture is made and depending
on our relationship with theplant we can also engage with
(47:02):
the plant spirit at that level,but often that doesn't happen
engage with the plant spirit atthat level, but often that
doesn't happen.
So when we have this directcommunication, this encompasses
all of the aspects of the plant.
So when we work with the plantspirit of Poison Hemlock, they
just show us that death ismerely a transition.
There's nothing to befrightened about it.
(47:24):
It's not an ending and, yeah,it's just another opportunity of
growing and healing.
John (47:31):
Well, you've gone above and beyond, jen.
Thank you so much for all yourwisdom today.
I am just as tickled as I wasjust before, thinking that
you're going to be on the show.
So thank you so much for beinghere and you're bringing your
energy into this conversation,and it was just as effective as
it was from Ro.
(47:51):
Did you want to talk a littlebit about?
Is it this way?
Jen Frey (47:56):
Yeah, sure.
So first, thanks, Thank you,john.
I was glad to have aconversation with you.
I'm always glad to talk aboutplants but, yes, also glad to
continue the relationship.
So, bridget's Way, that is mycompany.
And it came about because when Ifirst started opening up
actually it was the herbalpractice the goddess Bridget was
really big in my life and sheis the Celtic goddess of healing
(48:19):
, among many other aspects, andso just felt right, and so in
that I always see my work asbeing a continuation of being in
honor of her, helping to createa world that's safe and loving,
and that's what I try to do onmy work.
So I do have other classes,course plan, communication
(48:42):
classes and I have, as I said,an apprenticeship program where
we work with the plants.
In the first year it's mostlyplant spirits.
In the second year we work withother aspects of nature for our
own healing and also forworking with helping others,
including the land.
And I have other classes forco-creating with nature.
And, yeah, there's lots ofinformation.
(49:02):
I have a website, bridget'sWaycom.
You can check that out as well.
Yeah,
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